On Fox News, NRA’s Wayne LaPierre gets skewered
What happened when NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre and Fox News’ Chris Wallace debated gun control this morning?
Let’s just say that if the Super Bowl is this one-sided, millions of TV sets will be turned off by halftime.
Also, in another tragic case that casts doubt on the usefulness of guns as a self-defense measure, former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle was shot and killed yesterday evening at a gun range in Texas. Kyle came to national fame as a sniper who claimed more than 150 kills, supposedly making him the most prolific sniper in U.S. military history. Kyle wrote a best-selling book, “American Sniper,” about his experience and parlayed his fame into a regular spot on the reality show “Stars Earn Stripes.”
He leaves a wife and two children.
UPDATE: I’ve dealt with this several times in the comments below, but let me post it here as well. Yes, the circumstances of Kyle’s death suggest that he was given no real chance by his killer to defend himself. But the sad truth is, that’s almost always the case anyway. The good guy almost never gets the drop on the bad guy; the Keith Ratliff murder here in Georgia is another example of that reality.
In almost every case, the person who draws the weapon first has an overwhelming advantage, and most of the time the person who pulls first is the criminal. If you’re getting robbed at gunpoint on the street, for example, having a concealed weapon in your shoulder holster does you no good at all, and if it tempts you to try something stupid, it could end up getting you and others killed.
Let’s review the hard data, shall we? Each year, the FBI reports, some 200 justifiable homicides are committed with a firearm. That’s a tiny, tiny number, given the estimated 300 million firearms in circulation. That’s one justifiable homicide for each 1.5 million firearms. That’s the basis on which these fantasies are built. (And for the record, I recognize and support the constitutional right to possess firearms for home defense, etc.)
On the other hand, some 10,000 people are murdered each year with a firearm.
– Jay Bookman
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947 comments Add your comment
tiredofit
February 4th, 2013
8:08 am
If you have nothing to hide, then background checks and drug testing.
bookman parrot
February 4th, 2013
8:08 am
to the dog at 8:03
what a bunch of brainwashed drivel
Granny Godzilla
February 4th, 2013
8:10 am
Wilbur
I would suggest you work hard to not be so paranoid and to be truly informed on the subject.
If you are a law abiding gun owner you have nothing to fear.
If you don’t know how “places with the most abusive gun laws have the highest crime rates”
the fault is with you in not understanding how easy it is to gun from Riverdale IL to Chicago IL.
When gun supporters loudly proclaim their ignorance it surely does not instill confidence
in their ability to be responsible on this subject.
the dog
February 4th, 2013
8:12 am
bookman parrot-which part is brainwashed?
curious
February 4th, 2013
8:12 am
Flash back to the 1950s, except we’re talking about guns and the Constitution now.
If this medium had existed in the 50s, imagine the comments regarding school integration or lunch counters at Woolworths.
the dog
February 4th, 2013
8:13 am
Curious-I would suggest the same narrow minded people of the 50’s are still here.
Walterego
February 4th, 2013
8:14 am
Scoop, the government IS the answer much of the time, especially if efficiency is your threshold. The constitution itself is “government power”. The FAR more important freedoms of life and liberty are BACKED by government power. Quit kidding yourself. Student loans, Healthcare, disaster relief, all more efficient through government than private chaos (not perfect but better than). Speaking of healthcare (i digress)…
Washington Post 2009
“An apples-to-apples comparison would not leave you with the 2 percent of total Medicare spending…A more straightforward estimate would be in the range of 5 to 6 percent.
Nor is it easy to measure administrative costs among private insurers. For one thing, which private insurers? When the Congressional Budget Office examined this issue, it found that administrative costs — including advertising and profits — accounted for 12 percent of the average insurer’s dollar. But that hid substantial variation among insurers. Among employer-based plans, the largest firms had the lowest costs. Plans covering companies with at least 1,000 employees had a mere 7 percent in administrative costs. Those covering companies with fewer than 25 employees spent 26 percent of premiums on administration. And the individual market was a mess: 30 percent.”
EVEN healthcare is more efficient through government. I say “even” because it has become such an issue for conservatives who 10 years ago were citing Romney’s MASS model as conservatism. Government has its efficiencies (and occasionally helping out one’s fellow citizens and frequently being helped out yourself isn’t socialist evil).
…
Now Scolia argued to “uphold the 2nd amendment” regarding HANDGUN laws in DC but specifically WROTE his opinion to argue against the type of firearms you hold dear. Those people who either mean to “fight the government” (craziness) or want (as he put it) “dangerous and unusual” TOYS. If you want to fight our government (not the redcoats or similar “tyranny” as was intended) please say so and our conversation ends. If you want “dangerous and unusual” toys, then let regulated, local gun clubs/ranges offer up that experience rather than owning the mass murder weapon of choice. What an awesome business model that would allow for BTW.
Finally, just say it. You are far to the right of Scolia! And anyone that can come to terms with that should also know that the rest of us believe that alone is grounds for not being allowed to own a pencil sharpener or drive a car (snicker). Now if we only had the equivalent of background checks for car drivers. Wait we do. Hmm? Wonder why.
Prisca
February 4th, 2013
8:17 am
Jay, I’m surprised you don’t mention the senseless killing of a young Latino last week, who at 10:00 p.m. went to the wrong address to pick up a buddy; realized he was at the wrong address when he saw the owner in a window; never got out of the car; and was killed by the owner as he tried to drive away. In his sorrow, the boy’s
father said that “I only hope that people will think before shooting; this can’t happen again.”
stands for decibels
February 4th, 2013
8:19 am
If this medium had existed in the 50s, imagine the comments regarding school integration or lunch counters at Woolworths.
We really don’t have to though–there are plenty of contemporary accounts. (I’d suggest reading the latter chapters of Steinbeck’s Travels With Charley to fully appreciate how some of the white folks in New Orleans adjusted to the new reality of school integration.)
stands for decibels
February 4th, 2013
8:21 am
In his sorrow, the boy’s
father said that “I only hope that people will think before shooting; this can’t happen again.”
So true. He can only hope, because we all know it will happen again. and the more guns you have among a population, the more likely it will happen again.
But we can’t change the status quo because freedom. And because manhood, or some happy horsesh-t.
stands for decibels
February 4th, 2013
8:27 am
Off topic, but to understand just how twisted the anti-choice side really is in their efforts to control women:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/health/they-are-coming-your-birth-control-radio-host-claims-your-womb-full-tiny-dead-baby-corpses
“Swanson: I’m beginning to get some evidence from certain doctors and certain scientists that have done research on women’s wombs after they’ve gone through the surgery, and they’ve compared the wombs of women who were on the birth control pill to those who were not on the birth control pill. And they have found that with women who are on the birth control pill, there are these little tiny fetuses, these little babies, that are embedded into the womb. They’re just like dead babies. They’re on the inside of the womb. And these wombs of women who have been on the birth control pill effectively have become graveyards for lots and lots of little babies.”
I’m not usually one to feel the need to go all Biology 101 and point out that even if somehow there were tiny mini babies stuck in your uterus, they would come out when you menstruate since THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT OF MENSTRUATION. Because obviously, whatever school Swanson attended must have not only skipped over the entirety of sex ed, but likely a full spectrum of basic science classes as well.
Oh, wait. He was homeschooled. And now he is a leader in the homeschool movement. And his radio show is “the world’s largest homeschooling and Biblical worldview program that reaches families across the US and in over 80 countries.”
So, hold onto your pills, folks, because Swanson and his ilk are coming for your birthcontrol, as well as your right to an education that allows you to comprehend basic bodily functions.
/drive-by
Granny Godzilla
February 4th, 2013
8:27 am
way off topic…..but should make everybody smile
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022303870
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
8:28 am
The NRA represents millions of law abiding gun owners.
The NRA represents millions of dollars made by manufacturers and sellers.
Brosephus™
February 4th, 2013
8:30 am
dB @ 8:27
That’s just sad that someone would actually think that, much less broadcast his ignorance about the human body for all to hear. There are probably listeners of his who believe everything he said though.
Gunluvr
February 4th, 2013
8:32 am
I really have to wonder why you nuts here a so passionate about your guns?
Do you really think your Govt. is out to get you?
Are you just so phallic challenged that you must have “the big iron”?
Either way, you need meds and counseling.
________________________________________________
Don’t be too concerned about it because if u have to ask you’ll never understand anyway.
Yes we do think they’re out to get us.
You must be one of those hysterical women. That’s generally the case when anti-gunners start
referring to phallic symbols. Anti-gun women generally don’t like guns and loud noises but it
does make it easy to identify u on forum boards.
And finally; Are u one of those liberal anti-gun coastal elites? Most of u when you’re confronted
with a situation and people that u don’t agree with always start talking about “meds and therapy”
U want the government to step in and regulate something that u don’t know the first
thing about(absolutely clueless about the operation of guns and hunting).
Granny Godzilla
February 4th, 2013
8:34 am
Guns are too noisy for women?
Gunluvr
Had small children? Teenagers?
tee hee hee
Find Muck
February 4th, 2013
8:35 am
President Phony Photo-OP does it again.
The ruse of his “all the time” skeet shooting outings was a hoot.
You sheeple still believe the hyped uP BS the media feeds.
dumb as a rock
February 4th, 2013
8:35 am
Liberals out of touch. Jay trying to sell the idea that Wayne got grilled. Charles Blow and other liberals telling us the VW commercial was racist.
When will you brain dead liberals ever wake up and start thinking for yourselves? Elitists liberals like Jay and Charles only make a living by stirring up the pot of low informed voters. The puppet masters pull the strings, and the liberal masses jump and dance!
straitroad
February 4th, 2013
8:37 am
Jay, your headline doesn’t match the content of the video. Unfortunately, you view everything with liberal bias.
Duper
February 4th, 2013
8:37 am
This country is in deep deep doo doo.
Walterego
February 4th, 2013
8:43 am
Wilbur, you wrote this:
“The NRA represents millions of law abiding gun owners. Why is it that liberals have decided to demonize the law abiding rather than deal with the real issues. Why are the liberals in such a rush to deprive millions of their rights rather than face up to the underlying societal issues that drive crime in the first place.
Why is it that places with the most abusive gun laws have the highest crime rates?”
Wilbur, it’s clear you get your “gun news” from the NRA so I will start off by posting you this brief article showing the closest comparable to the US in AU.
http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/1/6/gun-control-after-connecticut-shooting-could-australia-s-laws-provide-a-lesson
While the US will never have gun restrictions to the point of AU, we can do better and still honor the 2nd amendment. All while having similar gains in public safety.
The NRA increasingly represents gun manufacturers rather than gun owners. Look at the NRA tax returns for this evidence. So, blame the NRA for dragging your law abiding name through the mud by taking extreme positions designed to increase gun sales and line their pockets. It’s not called the NRA industrial complex for nothing.
As far as underlying social issues, I think liberals do a better job of TRYING to deal with these. The average unemployment rate during Democratic presidents is 5.65%, during Republican presidents 5.93%. More people are idle during republican leadership. Democrats fought for healthcare including mental healthcare. Frankly, though, I’m not sure what “social issues” means to you, Wilbur. If by “social issues” you mean “violent video games” then you should blame the NRA who just put out a “for ages 4 and up” video game where your 4 year old child can shoot at people shaped targets.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/16/opinion/ferguson-nra-video-games
Granny Godzilla
February 4th, 2013
8:46 am
Find Muck
February 4th, 2013
8:35 am
President Phony Photo-OP does it again.
The ruse of his “all the time” skeet shooting outings was a hoot.
You sheeple still believe the hyped uP BS the media feeds.
.
.
.
.
BAAA BAAA who’s the sheep? You’ve been shorn!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/03/1184365/-Obama-2010-I-practice-with-the-Secret-Service
A visit a couple years back to the White House by the TCU shotting team……
Walterego
February 4th, 2013
8:56 am
Gunlver writes,
“Yes we do think they’re (the government) out to get us.
You must be one of those hysterical women.”
Thinking the government is out to get you is hysteria. So while you may not be a woman, you are acting like one according to your own (ignorant, demeaning) definition.
Gunlver, it’s clear you have to blame somebody for something wrong in your life. You have chosen to blame the government. I can’t help but wonder if this isn’t in part due to our having an African American president. Regardless, I sincerely hope that you find peace and happiness and choose to live unafraid rather than in fear.
indigo
February 4th, 2013
9:02 am
Gunluvr – 8:32
You’re lucky Jay allows double-digit IQ’s to post here.
Otherwise, you’d have to go to your favorite website, Honey Boo Boo, and post your inane comments there.
indigo
February 4th, 2013
9:06 am
getalife – 11:09 “say hello to my little friend”
Is your “little friend” the reason you have “the big iron”?
Well, I guess that big gun does “extend” your manhood.
independent thinker
February 4th, 2013
9:10 am
JAY : “More than half of traced guns come from outside the state; almost one in 10 comes from Mississippi.”
How about this state Jay- are you not aware that 27.5% of the guns sold in this state can be traced to crimes within two years- over 6,000 in 2007 before Congress made it impossible for the ATF to keep tracking gun sales and crime. All while they pumped out tuns of guns with no assault weapons ban, no ATF director,no ATF record keeping, the Heller decision pushed by the right wing and Republicans, and while a conglomerate run by Republicans controlling most of the gun manufacturers in this country made huge profits for its investors- Isn’t it strange how the number of senseless gun murders has shot up since then isn’t it?
The in depth journalism on this is sorely lacking.Chris Wallace didn’t dare touch the Republican angle on all of this. Why not ask LaPierre how gun profits have shot up in the last twelve years?
fair and balanced
February 4th, 2013
9:21 am
Prisca-Jay, I’m surprised you don’t mention the senseless killing of a young Latino last week, who at 10:00 p.m. went to the wrong address to pick up a buddy; realized he was at the wrong address when he saw the owner in a window; never got out of the car; and was killed by the owner as he tried to drive away.”
How naive- owner exercising his second amendment rights as a member of the Georgia militia armed and ready for federal thugs ready to confiscate his guns. Probably felt threatened by Mexicans claiming property rights to his driveway- fully justified killing.
broomstick
February 4th, 2013
9:27 am
the truth is catching up with the gun nuts.
buzzwax
February 4th, 2013
9:37 am
Fox, Obama, Liberal, Conservative – NOISE.
Most criminals/terrorists are COWARDS! I GUARANTEE you schools and movie theaters would STOP being targets of mass shootings if there were even the thought of an armed security presence!!!!!! DETERENT is the 1st part of a security plan. Have a security system at home? Will it stop the professional, probably not, but most criminals are COWARDS and ‘bullies’ they are going to pick on the house without one! Have a dog? Your less likely to get robbed. Have a sign that you have a gun? Less likely to get robbed! Have all three?
If schools had an armed security guard and a drug/weapon smelling dog, our schools would be FAR better off!! You can’t fix ‘the crazies’. So a ‘crazy’ walks into an unprotected school with only a bolt action rifle with ONE round and kills ONE child. Time to ban all weapons?
NO, protect the schools, protect the kids!!!
Who’s going to pay for it? Do the math, cost of security and dog/# of property tax payers and the per school day per taxpayer is PEANUTS!
Typical elementary school – lets just say 1000 students. $100,000 per year for a security officer and dog and all of the annual training, etc. $100,000/1000 = $8.33/month and $100,000 is WAY HIGH!
independent thinker
February 4th, 2013
9:48 am
I agree with LaPierre- gun industry has pumped out so many guns that schools are no longer safe.
Suggestions:
1. Have certified members of Georgia’s well regulated militia serve one month a year doing guard duty as party of their second amendment right to bear arms
2. abolish the $50 million dollar tax credits this state gives in a phony scheme to fund private schools and use that income to fund school guards;
3. tax the profits of the companies that will be operating charter schools in this state as a means to raise funds for guards or
4. tax gun sales at gun shows and to straw buyers which occurs daily in Georgia to cover cost of school guards,
Problem solved
Wes Macloskie
February 4th, 2013
9:51 am
This reminds me, I need to renew my NRA membership. Thanks Jay for the reminder.
td
February 4th, 2013
10:01 am
Obama needs to take lessons from this person on how to shoot:
http://www.teaparty.org/sarah-palin-fans-encourage-president-obama-to-shoot-like-a-girl-19695/
Hemphlev
February 4th, 2013
10:04 am
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Uh Huh..........Kudos to CHRIS Wallace for facing down evil
February 4th, 2013
10:22 am
@Wes Macloskie
February 4th, 2013
9:51 am
This reminds me, I need to renew my NRA membership. Thanks Jay for the reminder.
LinkReport this comment.td
February 4th, 2013
10:01 am
Obama needs to take lessons from this person on how to shoot:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If CONS want to LOSE another ELECTION………
KEEP doing what you are DOING.
obamaSINLADEN
February 4th, 2013
10:23 am
From the leftist article; “The good guy almost never gets the drop on the bad guy…”; hence THE REASONING TO INTRUDE ON LAW ABIDING FIREARM OWNERS…if the “good guy” cant get the drop on the “bad guy” too bad. the good guy shouldnt be able to carry,own,enjoy etc.. a legally owned firearm. guess who will have one? correct! the bad guy. Can you say double speak? left speak? how about enforcing the current laws ? oh thats right, its not politically enriching . since 1871, the ONLY true civil rights lobby, your NRA. educate your selves.
tom gambeski
February 4th, 2013
10:55 am
To Jay,
Right, And Obama would also seal our borders from gunrunning (Ref; “Fast and Furious” fiasco).
Is there anything this man can’t cure with a wave of his 5 iron?
I think we should make him King for life and do away with that annoying Constitution of ours he then would be free to dictate as he wishes. I’m sure you and people like you would be the beneficiaries of all those goodies he is ready to distribute to all his other”useful idiots” out there.
add an additional 23 million more to the unemployment roles,put 47 million more on food stamps,
tom gambeski
February 4th, 2013
11:01 am
Jay,The only person that made a fool of himself is the commentator,Wallace comes from a long line of liberals, it’s a condition he can’t hide.
elfiii
February 4th, 2013
12:22 pm
@ Jay No, it does not. If it did, you could trot down to the gunshop and buy yourself a nice little .50 cal machine gun to mount on the parapet guarding your perimeter.
Yes Jay, it does. You can trot down to the local gun store and buy a Ma Deuce. You just have to have the BATFE tax stamp and Class 3 weapons license in your hand when you do.
Whenever I want to read truly stupid stuff about the 2A I visit your Blog. So far you haven’t gotten 1 gun statistic correct.
Justin
February 4th, 2013
12:27 pm
I have no idea what Kyle’s death has to do about the video. Kyle was more than qualified than any police officer in weapons and was with another Marine at the range who also is more qualified in weapons. I think people are misconstrued over qualifications of weapons because two individuals who more than qualify for the police force were handling weapons. I see nothing wrong with this, the fact that one person had PTSD and killed Kyle, is a prime example of ill mental health. Sadly Kyle lost his life to a mistake made by handling weapons with someone who was not mentally stable to.
Walterego
February 4th, 2013
5:51 pm
Dear OsamaSINLADEN,
First, your “name” suggests profound bigotry on your part. I’m sure you are aware of it and perhaps in your circles such ignorance and hatred is something to celebrate.
That aside, the biggest misnomer is that properly legislated gun laws don’t decrease the amount of guns “bad guys” have available to them and only impact so called “law abiding citizens”. Mind you many “law abiding citizens” still commit crimes with their guns, but the facts are that laws reduce guns for ALL PEOPLE. If it weren’t the case murder rates wouldn’t drop.
In 2008-2009 just several years after new gun laws, there were only 39 fatal injuries from crimes involving firearms in England and Wales, with a population about one sixth the size of America’s. In America, there were 12,000 gun-related homicides in 2008, > than a 30 fold increase. Austrailia did it even better and gun violence plummeted!!! Look at the graph!!!
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/15-things-to-know-about-australia-s-incredibly-effective-gun-clampdown-20121218
Unless you don’t think there are any “bad guys” in the UK and AU, then the same legislation would work here despite our having “bad guys” too. Maybe there would be a lot more knife fights, but as we found out in Japan, Knife wielding mass murderers aren’t as prolific. Instead of 28 killed like in Newtown, in Osaka several years ago 8 school children where killed with a knife. Awful for sure, but he didn’t have a Bushmaster thankfully.
IT IS POSSIBLE TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT AND TYPE OF GUNS FOR the spectrum of people FROM good to bad! The facts support this. Next.
W
Gunluvr
February 5th, 2013
9:41 am
Jay, the 2nd Amendment gives citizens the right to own whatever weapons they want to. This a direct quote from an ATF employee who’s more knowledgeable of this subject than either of us:
“Federal law does not prohibit the ownership of any weapon, said Ginger Colbrun, an ATF spokeswoman in Washington. In order to buy or own certain firearms, including automatic weapons, machine guns and bazookas, people do have to apply for permission from the federal government. But as long as the application for a restricted firearm is approved, and there is no state law barring ownership of that type of gun, it’s legal.”
I know this is hard for u to swallow but if I wanted to own a small nuclear weapon, C4 explosive, tank, grenade, etc. all I need to do is get authorization from the ATF and as long as there no state law stating otherwise it’s mine. As far as I know Georgia remains a enclave of freedom despite Vincent Forte’s best anti-gun efforts. My freedom and Constitutional right to own whatever gun or destructive device I want comes first before all other concerns.
So despite the dream that anti-gunners try to sell publicly about what kind of weapons are prohibited in legal reality none of them are and the most dangerous ones(destructive devices) can be had with an application to the ATF. Please convey this to your readers.
Jay
February 5th, 2013
9:48 am
Gunluvr, the Second Amendment does no such thing, and you make the gun crowd look silly with such a ridiculous assertion.
All you need is an ATF permission and you can own a small nuclear device? Hell, why not go for a BIG nuclear device? Your chance of getting ATF permission would be the same in either case — ZERO!
Gunluvr
February 5th, 2013
9:55 am
Not according to the letter and spirit of the law. The only potential impediment would be that since nuclear bombs are made by private companies regulated in the same way as public utilities they would be directed by the government not to sell it to me(their choice) or the government would probably not buy anymore from them but u can determine for yourself and consult with any lawyer and they will tell u there is no law that says that I can’t own one.
Gunluvr
February 5th, 2013
10:02 am
I stand corrected nuclear bombs fall under the authority of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, so I would need authorization from them and the ATF, sorry.
elfiii
February 5th, 2013
10:06 am
@Gunluvr “Federal law does not prohibit the ownership of any weapon, said Ginger Colbrun, an ATF spokeswoman in Washington. In order to buy or own certain firearms, including automatic weapons, machine guns and bazookas, people do have to apply for permission from the federal government. But as long as the application for a restricted firearm is approved, and there is no state law barring ownership of that type of gun, it’s legal.”
I wonder if Jay thinks the Army & Marine Corps just “loan out” some of their gear to Hollywood film producers?
Gunluvr
February 5th, 2013
10:28 am
They(anti-gunners) often proceed from an overly emotional standpoint often assuming that if they think something should be illegal then it probably is but before they give the rest of us lowly plebeians their omniscient pronouncements(for our own protection and a “civilized society”s best interest) they should check their laws that they so quickly bend their knee to. They might be surprised.
Gunluvr
February 5th, 2013
2:16 pm
I don’t care whether u lock up psychotic nutcases or turn them into garden fertilizer, just don’t touch my guns. As Buford T. Justice said “U can think about it, just don’t do it!!” A very simple message.