First draft of ethics plan both encouraging, worrisome

House Speaker David Ralston

House Speaker David Ralston

If tightened and passed into law, the ethics-reform package announced this week by House Speaker David Ralston could restructure relationships between lobbyists and state legislators and in some ways alter the Gold Dome political culture for the better.

Its core proposal is a provision that bans, rather than caps, most gifts from lobbyists to legislators. In an interview Thursday, Ralston dismissed a competing proposal of a $100 gift cap, calling it a “gimmick” because it puts no limit on the number of such gifts that a lobbyist could offer or a legislator could accept. A ban is more easily understood by all parties — lobbyists, legislators and the general public — and more easily enforced as well.

However, while the bill bans gifts to individual legislators, it puts no limit on what lobbyists can spend on legislators in groups, such as a House committee or subcommittee. Among other problems, that loophole plays into the hands of the most deep-pocketed of special interests. Banking lobbyists, for example, could afford to take the entire House and Senate banking committees out for a night’s dinner and entertainment, while consumer groups could not. At the very least, the legislation should put a per-head limit on such expenditures.

The bill also does too little to address the common practice of showering influential legislators with all-expense-paid, multi-day trips to resorts under the guise of speaking to associations and groups. (To Ralston’s credit, it does ban payment of golf-course fees and similar expenses on such outings.) It’s part of a legislator’s job to speak before annual conventions of professional associations and trade groups, and it’s appropriate to have legitimate expenses covered. However, appearing on a breakfast panel doesn’t justify a three-day suite at a top-end resort, all meals and beverages covered. Limiting it to a one-night stay would solve the problem.

The package offers important reform in other ways as well. It would require legislators to quickly report all campaign donations received after January 1 and just before the annual legislative session opens. Ralston refers to that window as “a frenzy of fundraising activity,” when those seeking help from the incoming Legislature often make donations. Requiring quick reporting of such contributions at least makes that window transparent.

More important, the bill restores a degree of autonomy to the state ethics commission. Several years ago, as punishment for a ruling on the use of corporate jets, legislative leaders stripped the ethics panel of the authority to make its own rules, crippling its operation. That power would be restored under the speaker’s proposal.

Unfortunately, the biggest flaw in the Ralston proposal is a doozy and a potential deal-killer. For some unknown reason, the bill redefines “lobbyist” so broadly that a PTA president speaking to a local school board or a neighborhood association leader who testifies before a planning commission would first have to pay $300 to register as a lobbyist. The same would apply to anybody testifying before or sending information to a legislative committee.

That’s unacceptable and unnecessary, a message that legislators say they have received loud and clear. On Thursday, a House subcommittee promised to extensively revise that language by next week, and Ralston echoed that pledge in our interview. There’s simply too much good in this proposal to allow it to fail on such grounds.

– Jay Bookman

443 comments Add your comment

Simple Truths

February 1st, 2013
9:26 am

Ban the darn gifts!

Tundra Dude

February 1st, 2013
9:27 am

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
9:27 am

it puts no limit on what lobbyists can spend on legislators in groups, such as a House committee or subcommittee.

sheesh.

Do I really need to read any more to know that this is gonna be 100% bovine squeezin’s?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

February 1st, 2013
9:28 am

The definition and rules regarding “lobbyist” have been a problem for some time. There certainly are clear differences between the paid lobbyists and those who profess for a particular interest. I’ve had to walk that line myself. It needs work but as often done, there can always be a “fix” later as legislators often do.

RB from Gwinnett

February 1st, 2013
9:29 am

Dang it!! I was betting on Jay’s first post being the DNC spin on how the increase in the unemployment rate was the Republican’s fault.

Guess the DNC is still working on that one.

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
9:31 am

It’s part of a legislator’s job to speak before annual conventions of professional associations and trade groups, and it’s appropriate to have legitimate expenses covered.

so have the taxpayers pay for such things, and provide a reasonable accounting for why you, as a state legislator, felt it was worth spending our money to participate, and face the music if your constituents disagree. This ain’t rocket science.

Oscar

February 1st, 2013
9:31 am

that depends on what your definition of bs is.

barking frog

February 1st, 2013
9:32 am

Where ever two or more of ye are gathered together ye
may receive largesse….

Dave

February 1st, 2013
9:32 am

I’m amazed at the good in the bill. I heard in a radio report that they are going to amend it so as to not apply to people addressing their representatives unless they were doing so for a group. I don’t know that non-profits should be exempt from registration and I don’t know that $300 is an unreasonable fee. With some of what you suggest being added, we might have a real ethics law. Imagine that.

the cat

February 1st, 2013
9:32 am

Do David Ralston and Chris Christie have a wager on who weighs the most? Are they potential WW spokespeople?

Oscar

February 1st, 2013
9:34 am

stands – the taxpayers should not pay for those trips. Not part of the job.

Road Scholar

February 1st, 2013
9:35 am

Add the lawmakers family and friends to the gift ban to ensure they don’t “go around” the intent of the policy. Have all trips reviewed and approved by the Speaker, or his rep, PRIOR to the trip. I had to do that when working for state government on travel that was not “normal” based on my day to day responsibilities and duties. I had to submit a trip budget and how it was to be paid for. We were also banned from taking anything/gifts w/o the Commissioner’s sign off! No gifts, no problem!

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
9:35 am

I guess on balance, however, it sounds like a step in the right direction. Kinda like the incremental filibuster reform managed by Reid a few days back–not at all what I’d want to see, but progress.

Paul

February 1st, 2013
9:36 am

“Unfortunately, the biggest flaw in the Ralston proposal is a doozy and a potential deal-killer.” Hope they correct it. The cynic in me says “why do you think the deal killer was put there in the first place?”

The idea that a person who describes himself as “servant of the public” should expect gifts and freebies from those he serves strikes me as twisted.

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:37 am

‘I was betting on Jay’s first post being the DNC spin on how the increase in the unemployment rate was the Republican’s fault.’

Is there a point at which you grow weary of being wrong?

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
9:37 am

JAY

Are the specifics preceded by general tenets of ethical behavior that defines intent? In my business, we have to take exam(s)before the specifics are laid out, tenets including responsibility, accountabily, honesty and liability are spelled out to clarify the intent..

Of course, none of those categories can currently apply to any elected official since the current and preferred way of doing business flys in the face of such practible concepts..

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
9:37 am

the taxpayers should not pay for those trips. Not part of the job.

If it’s not part of the job, then they should not be attending such events, period.

If there is value to attend such an event, however, the taxpayer SHOULD pay for it. It is far, far cheaper for us to send some guys to a convention here or there on OUR dime, then to pay for it later in countless ways through quid pro quo legislation that shafts us.

This does make sense, yes?

DannyX

February 1st, 2013
9:37 am

“I was betting on Jay’s first post being the DNC spin on how the increase in the unemployment rate was the Republican’s fault.”

157,000 net jobs created. Big gains in construction employment. More gains in manufacturing. Government jobs down yet again. An average of 180,000 net job gains per month the past two years.

Now, for the billboard readers that will only read a quick sentence to find their negative angle, then yes, the small rise in unemployment would be something to celebrate.

Bob

February 1st, 2013
9:38 am

“Several years ago, as punishment for a ruling on the use of corporate jets, legislative leaders stripped the ethics panel of the authority to make its own rules, crippling its operation. That power would be restored under the speaker’s proposal.”
Jay, how many years does “several” mean ? When did it happen and who were those repubs that stripped the ethics panel of authority ?

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:38 am

Does the title of PUBLIC servant entitle one to gifts from those whose interests are not with the public…

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
9:38 am

Is there a point at which you grow weary of being wrong?

I was going to ask if there were a point at which RB realized there are other backyards where he can go do his business without stinking up Jay’s.

Paul

February 1st, 2013
9:39 am

I agree with stands – overall, a step in the right direction. Maybe it’s the foundation and more can be added to build and strengthen the structure as time goes by.

And, I’m guessing ‘congrats’ is due the AJC for keeping the pressure on over the years.

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
9:41 am

‘congrats’ is due the AJC for keeping the pressure on over the years.

Credit where it’s due to Kyle as well.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
9:41 am

RB from Gwinnett

February 1st, 2013
9:29 am

In fairness, the latest minor changes in employment, growth and jobless claims are nothing of substance since all due to timing and transitional issues. Only when next numbers arrive as well as retroactively revised numbers, its a difficult argument to pursue..the explanation by the feds et al are pretty solid at this point.

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:41 am

Bob, that was under the Glenn Richardson regime.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
9:43 am

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:37 am

The mere idea that one or another party have much real influence over these measures is silly IMO.

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:44 am

No Stevie Ray, no such preamble. However, I believe that freshmen legislators get such a course in an orientation session held at UGa.

RB from Gwinnett

February 1st, 2013
9:44 am

Lord Help Us, “Is there a point at which you grow weary of being wrong?”

I guess somebody has either not been paying attention to the news or has the usual liberal selective bent to it…

“The economy shrank from October through December for the first time since the recession ended…White House press secretary Jay Carney laid the blame for a surprise economic contraction squarely at the feet of congressional Republicans Wednesday, saying economic threats during the “fiscal cliff” negotiations had prevented important defense spending. “Our economy is facing a major headwinds, and that’s Republicans in Congress,” Carney said.”

LHU, do you ever grow weary of carrying Obama’s water?

southpaw

February 1st, 2013
9:44 am

Jay

I like your description of the legislation as “first draft.” Like most other first drafts, the finished product is likely to be better. How much better remains to be seen.

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:45 am

‘The mere idea that one or another party have much real influence over these measures is silly IMO.’

The comparison of Bill Clinton to GWB exhibits otherwise…

Madge From Accounting

February 1st, 2013
9:45 am

Republicans + Ethics = Oxymoron

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:46 am

‘LHU, do you ever grow weary of carrying Obama’s water?’

Not as long as it is contained in a bucket with an ergonomic handle…

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:47 am

And Paul, no congrats to anyone until this thing is signed, sealed and delivered. Too many ways it could go bad.

getalife

February 1st, 2013
9:47 am

Change seldom happens in one day.

You have to get change started first and it is a ongoing process.

You started the change so now you keep the pressure on for more change.

Congrats Georgia for starting this change.

Mark T

February 1st, 2013
9:48 am

Jay, sorry for the off topic but I wanna answer a question you asked in your gun control proved effective model post….you asked
January 28th, 2013
12:54 pm
Has anyone tried to explain yet how the automatic-weapons ban is constitutional, yet an assault weapon ban would not be?

So I ask you, what makes an AR15 an assault weapon?
You might wanna do your homework before answering

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:48 am

BTW, RB – please check the stock market today, the last year…Heck, the last 4 years and then tell us how great GWB was…

Granny Godzilla

February 1st, 2013
9:49 am

a step foward, good news.

Thomas Heyward Jr

February 1st, 2013
9:49 am

The tasks of trying to count fire ants in a disturbed bed , trying to count illegal immigrants in a giant country or trying to squeeze any meaningful ethic reforms out of a typical Georgia lawyer all have something in comman.
.
They’re not possible.
.
Make the payments/bribes/graft easily shown to the general public.
Vote accordingly.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
9:49 am

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:44 am

A course….IMO these should be in writing and signed off by all. Enforcement needs be included as well as penalties.

I know that these folks don’t get paid much, but the main benefit$ are the contacts that are made in the process to increase prospects of profitable post legislative employment…thats plenty enough…we would all like to believe they seek election for benevolent reasons…you know the ones posted on their billboards and such……that sounds silly eh?

DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda

February 1st, 2013
9:49 am

In fairness, the latest minor changes in employment, growth and jobless claims are nothing of substance since all due to timing and transitional issues.

IOW — I can’t STAND the idea that Obama was right and all those snivelling cowards of the reich were wrong.

Anton Chigurh

February 1st, 2013
9:50 am

If the rule that you followed led you to this, of what use was the rule?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

February 1st, 2013
9:51 am

Well, I don’t know about you but I don’t see this ban as good news. What it means is all these people will be asking for a pay increase and there goes our taxes up. I’d rather let the lobbyists buy pay these people than pay more in taxes. Maybe it’ll be OK if they make up the difference by furloughing more teachers or something like that. There’s always somebody we can squeeze a little more if we look hard enough.

Anyhow, asking these legislaters to be honest is sorta like asking pigs to mind their manners and not eat too much. Right now there’s people down at the statehouse huddling up and figuring out a way around this ban. It’s what they do. Don’t try and tell me somebody that spends all that time at the Capitol is going to be pinching pennies and selling off their stocks and bonds to get by.

Have a good Friday everybody. Since I’m kinda in a hurry to get to Billy Bob’s after I check in my truck on Friday afternoon I thought I’d leave you with a favorite song of my mind. It’s by Roy Orbison and Emmylou “It’s only a few thousand bucks worth of damage so don’t expect me to stop” Harris and they won a Grammy for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTUG1odiRXo

Erwin's cat

February 1st, 2013
9:51 am

the cat – Do David Ralston and Chris Christie have a wager on who weighs the most? Are they potential WW spokespeople?

bigot much?

getalife

February 1st, 2013
9:51 am

cons can’t cry about cuts then cry about unemployment.

You can’t have it both ways.

If you want better unemployment numbers, tell your party no cuts.

Granny Godzilla

February 1st, 2013
9:51 am

Looks like 14000 is possible today…..damn this lousy economy…..

barking frog

February 1st, 2013
9:53 am

Quite often I have heard that you can’t legislate morality
even in the legislature…or maybe they do reflect the morals
of society.

Erwin's cat

February 1st, 2013
9:55 am

GG – Looks like 14000 is possible today

it’s not uncharted territory

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
9:55 am

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
9:48 am

I’ve been thinking about the stock market….I think an argument could be made that it was, to an extent the stupid moves by Bush that resulted in run up. Nothing BO did has anything to do with it to any large degree. For a start, the valuations are big partly due to the amounts of cash on balance sheets….concern about poor returns domestically for many reasons and a shaky economy, keep many from putting money out there…especially the money we gave many of them.

The other big driver is the pending blow up of the bond market. Many folks who, for example, used interest payments from bonds for living expenses (retired et al), are moving bond investments to mutual funds er al as the returns on the bonds are crap.

Granny Godzilla

February 1st, 2013
9:56 am

today – 157,000 new jobs for the month of January

4 years ago today – 818,000 jobs lost

let that sink in.

Road Scholar

February 1st, 2013
9:56 am

Paul, Good morning! I have not been away; just tired of the same old tit for tat with no constructive comments. I’ve been in the shadows…..

I agree with you and Stands…. a large step in the right direction. Now it just needs to be tweaked and approved….and enforced! What are the penalties for violating this policy? Are the lists of gifts permissible to be published for all to see? Open and transparent?

Granny Godzilla

February 1st, 2013
9:56 am

Erwin’s cat

February 1st, 2013
9:55 am

GG – Looks like 14000 is possible today

it’s not uncharted territory
.
.
.
D’Uh.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
9:57 am

Ergo, one could argue that Bush should be given credit for the run up…due to his and congress’ dumb decisions…

getalife

February 1st, 2013
9:57 am

The last time it hit 14,000, the economy collapsed.

Morality?

February 1st, 2013
9:58 am

When I first asked Jay if there was ANYTHING good he could say about the Repubs in Georgia since I had only heard negative attacks against them Jay was silent. So I asked again. Jay finally came up with three compliments (sort of)….. just like today’s headline “Encouraging & Worrisome” … Bless his heart, Jay just can’t bring himself to compliment anyone but the Obama left.

DannyX

February 1st, 2013
9:58 am

If Georgia Republicans were really serious about ethics reform they would add a section to the ethics bill that would eliminate the $150,000 a year GPB job/bribe Gov Deal gave Chip Rogers.

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:59 am

“So I ask you, what makes an AR15 an assault weapon?
You might wanna do your homework before answering.”

No homework necessary, Mark. “Assault weapon” was originally military terminology for a lightweight, rapid-fire, high-capacity firearm designed for assaulting well-defended positions. That would be as opposed to, say, a .50 caliber machine gun, which because of its size, weight and ammo requirements is more of a defensive weapon.

Hope that helps.

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:00 am

What it means is all these people will be asking for a pay increase and there goes our taxes up. I’d rather let the lobbyists buy pay these people than pay more in taxes. Maybe it’ll be OK if they make up the difference by furloughing more teachers or something like that.

I so [heart] Redneck Convert, words fail.

td

February 1st, 2013
10:00 am

This is the reason that bans and “ethics” reform does not ever work. There are always loopholes and under the table going on. The best idea is pure sunshine and let the voters of the district decide what types of “gifts” is acceptable to them.

No bans, no limits, no ethics commission but total immediate detailed reporting from every lobbyist on a easily searchable website available to all the public. The voter is responsible to determine if the gifts received is acceptable and if not then they can vote their Representative out of office.

Doggone/GA

February 1st, 2013
10:00 am

Quite often I have heard that you can’t legislate morality even in the legislature”

No, you can’t. But you CAN define the punishments for being immoral

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
10:00 am

‘I’ve been thinking about the stock market…’

As I do every. single. day.

A correction is due and the market is propped up BIG time by QE. However, as long as inflation stays in check, the long-term party will continue…

How many people back around the time Obama was first elected believed the right-wing media about the affect his policies would have on the economy and missed out on a HUGE run up (DOW 6600 to 14000)?

Most of them, I presume, know their sources are FOS and have recovered nicely from the Great Recession…

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:02 am

Since it’s already Off Topic Free For All (thank you, needy wingers! really, we couldn’t do this without you!) –

4 years ago today – 818,000 jobs lost

Which the usual suspects blame on Obama/NastyPelousy, of course.

td

February 1st, 2013
10:02 am

ay

February 1st, 2013
9:59 am

“So I ask you, what makes an AR15 an assault weapon?
You might wanna do your homework before answering.”

No homework necessary, Mark. “Assault weapon” was originally military terminology for a lightweight, rapid-fire, high-capacity firearm designed for assaulting well-defended positions. That would be as opposed to, say, a .50 caliber machine gun, which because of its size, weight and ammo requirements is more of a defensive weapon.

Hope that helps.

Under you broad definition then all semi automatic rifles and handguns are considered “Assault weapons”. Is this what you are really saying?

DannyX

February 1st, 2013
10:03 am

“When I first asked Jay if there was ANYTHING good he could say about the Repubs in Georgia since I had only heard negative attacks against them Jay was silent.”

Morality, for someone who claims everyday to be neither Republican or Democrat you sure seem to whine a lot when the poor Republicans are called out.

Jay

February 1st, 2013
10:04 am

LHU, I don’t think of the market every day, but I would agree with your assessment of the short-term prospects.

However, I do have to smile remembering those folks who tried to make a big deal of the 100-point drop the day after Obama’s RE-election, arguing it presaged the total collapse of capitalism or some such nonsense.

DannyX

February 1st, 2013
10:04 am

“Obama/NastyPelousy,”

Stands, you forgot Bwany Fwank!

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:07 am

you forgot Bwany Fwank!

I’m sure Hitlery’s Cankles played a role as well.

.

.

(and Poland!)

Jay

February 1st, 2013
10:07 am

No, td.

If there’s something that I really want to say, I can generally say it on my own. Thanks though.

mbtc

February 1st, 2013
10:08 am

Is there a provision to ban sweetheart jobs for family members?

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:09 am

Under you broad definition then all semi automatic rifles and handguns are considered “Assault weapons”.

deer rifles |= lightweight, rapid-fire, high-capacity

concussive effects of time spent at the range without protection, is it?

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
10:10 am

Speak of the devil…Dow tops 14,000.

Erwin's cat

February 1st, 2013
10:10 am

(and Poland!)

we’ll always have Warszawa

Jay

February 1st, 2013
10:11 am

Also, sfd, I’m not sure I’d want to assault a well-defended infantry position armed with a handgun, even a semi-auto.

td must be made of sterner stuff.

DannyX

February 1st, 2013
10:11 am

“Speak of the devil…Dow tops 14,000.”

First time since 2007.

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:12 am

we’ll always have Warszawa

Little early for the music, but…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gy94N_mcWs

(crank it UP and DANCE baby DANCE!)

Morality?

February 1st, 2013
10:13 am

Indigo 9:03 – “IQ in double Digits” ,,,,, IQ CHART:: Rocket Scientist > Brain Surgeon > Stock Market Guru > Computer Genius > Chemical Engineer > CPA > Auto Mechanic > Chef > Nurse > Plumber > Pest Exterminator > Lawyer not in politics > Gardener > Maid > Prison Guard >>>> Congress >>>> Brain DEAD ZOMBIES for OBAMA that keep reelecting Congress >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAX PAYER

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
10:13 am

‘However, I do have to smile remembering those folks who tried to make a big deal of the 100-point drop the day after Obama’s RE-election, arguing it presaged the total collapse of capitalism or some such nonsense.’

Some of those same people said that when Bill Clinton was elected the deficit would crater and the economy would tank…they make me laugh since I know that most of their money does not follow their mouths…

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:13 am

I’m not sure I’d want to assault a well-defended infantry position armed with a handgun, even a semi-auto.

Perhaps he was thinking of those military scenarios that call for neutralizing large numbers of hostile moviegoers.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
10:18 am

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:59 am

Why on earth do gun lovers want to get into the semantics of the definition of an assault gun….anything that can kill a slew of humans in seconds, regardless of what it is called, needs banning…

I have a new term for these weapons….”ass weapons”..

RB from Gwinnett

February 1st, 2013
10:18 am

LHU, “BTW, RB – please check the stock market today, the last year…Heck, the last 4 years and then tell us how great GWB was…”

We know, LHU, you only want to look at the last 2 years of W’s presidency because that’s the part that makes Oblame-a look better by comparison. That’s cute little game played by children whose thoughts are as deep as a bumper sticker is thick and if that’s all you’ve got, maybe the Nickelodeon blog would be more your speed.

When Obama gets to the 6 years of prosperity we enjoyed under Bush, give us a call, but he’ 0-4 so far and no. 5 ain’t looking all that bright so far.

BTW, you do know you can put that water down if it gets too heavy, right?

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

February 1st, 2013
10:18 am

“Perhaps he was thinking of those military scenarios that call for neutralizing large numbers of hostile moviegoers.”

…and perhaps he wasn’t thinking at all…jus’ guessin’

barking frog

February 1st, 2013
10:18 am

!4000 is a good time to jump in the stock market just
like a large jackpot is a good time to buy a lottery ticket.

td

February 1st, 2013
10:19 am

Jay

February 1st, 2013
10:07 am

No, td.

If there’s something that I really want to say, I can generally say it on my own. Thanks though.

” lightweight, rapid-fire, high-capacity firearm designed for assaulting well-defended positions”

My semi auto 30.06 (used by a great deal of hunters) with a 20 round clip would fit the definition you provided in a court of law. Is it a assault weapon? Most if not all Semi auto pistols (Like the Glock 9mm) would fit the definition in a court.

The definition is way to vague to be considered a legitimate definition of an “Assault weapon”.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
10:20 am

Obama has nothing to do with run up…dumb decisions under Bush regime and congress seem to me to be most material drivers of run ups…

C’mon, give Bush some credit.

td

February 1st, 2013
10:21 am

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am…

February 1st, 2013
10:18 am

Jay

February 1st, 2013
9:59 am

Why on earth do gun lovers want to get into the semantics of the definition of an assault gun….anything that can kill a slew of humans in seconds, regardless of what it is called, needs banning…

I have a new term for these weapons….”ass weapons”

So in other words you want to ban any and all semi automatic rifles and pistols.

barking frog

February 1st, 2013
10:21 am

stevie ray
I have a new term for these weapons….”ass weapons”..
………………………………………………..
I would name them for cheney…

Lord Help Us

February 1st, 2013
10:21 am

‘We know, LHU, you only want to look at the last 2 years of W’s presidency because that’s the part that makes Oblame-a look better by comparison. ‘

Yea, cuz the first few years when he turned surpluses into deficits, got us into Iraq, mismanaged Afghanistan, pushed a huge new entitlement through were so cool…

Morality?

February 1st, 2013
10:21 am

X – 10:03 …… I was just pointing out Jay’s complete bias against anyone but the one’s to the LEFT of COMMON SENSE . I will leave the whining, hating and gnashing of teeth to you on the far left.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
10:22 am

td

February 1st, 2013
10:19 am

What do you hunt that you need to get off 20 rounds in a matter of seconds? Perhaps you are trying to take down an entire flock of ducks at once?

DebbieDoRight - Minister Of Propaganda

February 1st, 2013
10:22 am

Crap! Here’s the picture that was supposed to go with the link Stevie Wonder. Sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laxyoaHOP1c

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:22 am

Why on earth do gun lovers want to get into the semantics of the definition of an assault gun…

I was going to link to the Urban Dictionary’s take on “Deflecturbation” but, astonishingly, not only is it not there, all of the Googly links are to… Jay’s joint.

Think we oughta register that sucker before some entrepreneur steals it from us?

barking frog

February 1st, 2013
10:23 am

td
So in other words you want to ban any and all semi automatic rifles and pistols.
………………………………………….
and shotguns…

DannyX

February 1st, 2013
10:23 am

“We know, LHU, you only want to look at the last 2 years of W’s presidency because that’s the part that makes Oblame-a look better by comparison.”

Exactly rb, good point. The Titanic also gets a bad rap. Up until that iceberg the voyage was a complete success. The first 99.999% of the trip was excellent.

Erwin's cat

February 1st, 2013
10:23 am

What do you hunt that you need to get off 20 rounds in a matter of seconds?

sometimes the predator becomes the prey

Joe Hussein Mama

February 1st, 2013
10:24 am

Ethics — FWIW, I think Ralston’s proposal is a good start. It’s got problems, to be sure, but there’s nothing so intractable in there that it couldn’t be ironed out. Fingers crossed that they do just that.

Assault Weps — I’ve intentionally remained silent on this, but IMO the only way there will ever be a definition for assault weapons will be for our lawmakers to agree on one (perhaps an set of characteristics, and possessing a minimum number of those characteristics legally makes something an assault weapon), and I’m not hopeful of that.

td is right in that you could assault a fixed infantry position with a sidearm (pistol or revolver) or a shotgun; it wouldn’t be smart, but you *could* do it.

stands for decibels

February 1st, 2013
10:25 am

My semi auto 30.06 (used by a great deal of hunters) with a 20 round clip would fit the definition you provided in a court of law.

Ok, I will ask. How often do you find yourself sitting in a frickin’ tree stand, running off 20 rounds at whatever you lured into your corn feed?

What kind of a jackass would even contemplate doing that?

(mind you, I’ve never hunted such critters–a double barrel was generally all I’d need for foul. but still…)

td

February 1st, 2013
10:25 am

Jay

February 1st, 2013
10:11 am

Also, sfd, I’m not sure I’d want to assault a well-defended infantry position armed with a handgun, even a semi-auto.

td must be made of sterner stuff.

In close quarters combat situations (like urban warfare) a pistol can be more lethal and a way better choice of weapon then a m-16.

Doggone/GA

February 1st, 2013
10:26 am

“14000 is a good time to jump in the stock market just
like a large jackpot is a good time to buy a lottery ticket.”

bad analogy. The odds of winning the lottery never change, regardless of the size of the payout. On the other hand, intellignet investors can take advantage of either ups OR downs in the stock market.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

February 1st, 2013
10:27 am

td

February 1st, 2013
10:21 am

That is not remotely practical. There are 310,000,000 guns in circulation so to say the least, the paste is out of the tube. I’m not a gun person but I will never understand the value of the need for 20 rounds in a sportsmans rifle…you can’t take them away and they won’t likely be taken away or limited. In fact, I fail to see how these knee jerk, intuitive legislative efforts on the table make a single kid safer from bad guy entering school..

Joe Hussein Mama

February 1st, 2013
10:27 am

td — “In close quarters combat situations (like urban warfare) a pistol can be more lethal and a way better choice of weapon then a m-16.”

Indeed. In close quarters, it’s a lot easier to swing that pistol around than any long-barrelled weapon.

Erwin's cat

February 1st, 2013
10:28 am

it wouldn’t be smart, but you *could* do it.

akin to shooting a grizzle with almost any caliber…chances are you’re just gonna p!ss him off