On immigration, it’s not just about the Latino vote
In the weeks ahead, the Republican Party is going to have itself a fine debate over immigration, with Florida Sen. Marco Rubio more or less betting his presidential ambitions on winning the argument. If he can’t convince enough Republicans to join him, his de facto support for amnesty will become a cannon ball chained to his leg in the race for the 2016 GOP nomination.
Personally, I hope Rubio is successful, because his success would mean that we actually accomplish something and put this problem behind us. But I have serious doubts.
His fellow Republican senator, David Vitter of Louisiana, this week called Rubio’s stance on immigration “nuts” and “amazingly naive,” all the while expressing his enormous admiration for his Florida colleague. House Republicans, a good indicator of the sentiment of the GOP base, don’t seem ready at all to embrace the Rubio solution. The editors at National Review dismissed it as well this week in a piece headlined “A Pointless Amnesty”:
“Call it ‘regularization,’ call it a ‘path to citizenship,’ it amounts to precisely the same thing: a decision to set aside the law and to ignore its violation.”
The folks at National Review also argue that “the idea that an amnesty is going to put Latinos squarely in the GOP tent is a fantasy.” Framed in those terms, they’re right. There are no conceivable circumstances in which the Latino vote is going to end up “squarely in the GOP tent.” However, a cessation of active hostility might, just might, allow the party to compete for some of those votes in the future.
The realization that the Latino vote might not be a natural GOP constituency after all has become a popular theme on the right, but it reflects a typically narrow way of thinking about the issue. Its implications for the overall GOP brand are much broader.
In a new CBS poll released this week, 71 percent of Americans say they support allowing illegal immigrants to remain here, with 51 percent saying they would support a path to citizenship. Only 24 percent of Americans take the GOP position that those immigrants must somehow be required to return home.
In other words, the GOP’s political problem on this issue is not by any means limited to Hispanic Americans. The GOP position toward the Latino minority mirrors its historic animosity to gay rights, affirmative action, minority voting protections, the Equal Rights Amendment for women and similar issues.
Each of those groups listens to GOP rhetoric on the Latino issue and it hears a powerful reminder of GOP indifference to its own struggles. If the GOP ends up scuttling comprehensive immigration reform, those non-Latino voters will view it as confirmation that the Grand Old Party isn’t changing, and that it has every intention of being more old than grand.
And unfortunately, they will be right to think that way.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,067 comments Add your comment
TaxPayer
January 31st, 2013
3:20 pm
I did not vote for “W” or Obama and I am not a Repub……. I am a FISCAL conservative. They are both FISCAL liberals. I am for reducing the size and scope of the Fed gub’ment overreach in to the private sector. Are you a BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIE for Obama – one of his lemming followers over the FISCAL CLIFF?
Gee. IDK! Are all braindead zombies sad, pathetic, miserable, angry excuses for airheaded human beings with a HATEFUL prejudice against Christians and an appalling lack of knowledge? If not, I’d have to conclude, No.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:20 pm
“How do you think they manage to keep people from crossing their border? You severely restrict the freedoms and movements of the citizens. You can’t think that North Koreans or old Soviets have the same freedoms as Americans, right?”
I have a question for you, just our of curiosity: do you not suppose that some the people illegally crossing our borders might be terrorists intent on harming our country?
TBS
January 31st, 2013
3:21 pm
EC
I opened it as well. I thought it was intentional
hahahahahha
Look before I leap...
January 31st, 2013
3:21 pm
Folks;
You can get on your moral high horse about jumping to the front of the line and rewarding illegal activity all you want. But that position is NOT gonna address the elephant in the room. And that elephant weighs about the same as 11 million people.
td
January 31st, 2013
3:21 pm
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am…I think.
January 31st, 2013
3:12 pm
Late to the party, but about recess Appointments,
From Wiki:
“President George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments”
Read and learn…
And exactly how many of the 171 Bush appointments were made in the same manner as the 4 Obama appointments that were declared unconstitutional? Reading and learning is a good practice for you to follow as well my friend.
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
3:21 pm
Sure. But they do so legally with visas and are not by any means assured of citizenship – so I am not sure why you are even asking the question.
I’m asking because the two are not the same. A tourist visa is intended for trips of short duration. They are not given out for intended immigration purposes. If someone has the intention of coming here to live, then they apply for an immigrant visa.
As to being assured citizenship, a green card holder basically has to live here for 5 years, and they can apply for citizenship. The most difficult part is paying the fee.
indigo
January 31st, 2013
3:22 pm
Erwin’s cat – 2:59
Actually, “the cat” posted that, not me.
For my part, I’m more than willing for you to “keep and bear” the type of guns in use when the 2nd ammendment was written.
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
3:22 pm
deegree – . He is not a political opportunist.
and then I laughed
Morality?
January 31st, 2013
3:22 pm
getalife – Congress IS a prostitute……
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:22 pm
“Tc…lol…I thought I had made it up”
Well, stupid me…I clicked on the link without really looking at the URL.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
3:23 pm
We’ve hit upon the solution to our borders. We just have Mexico kill the relatives remaining in Mexico when them “illegals” come to the US.
stands for decibels
January 31st, 2013
3:23 pm
stands-ignore away.
Guess I’ll have to. I expect a degree of honesty from folks on my side of the aisle, and while I don’t doubt for a minute that Doom could have posted something insensitive[1] on the topic, I don’t believe you when you say he “applauded.”
(It should be easy for you to fetch the post in question with a simple keyword search of the stuff you seem to remember so well, if it actually exists.)
———
1. Expecting Doom not to post insensitive messages in hopes of getting a cheap rise out of his political opposites is a little like expecting a family of gibbons to put away their crockery in the dishwasher after they’ve finished their dinner. It could happen, but it ain’t likely.
td
January 31st, 2013
3:23 pm
Look before I leap…
January 31st, 2013
3:21 pm
Folks;
You can get on your moral high horse about jumping to the front of the line and rewarding illegal activity all you want. But that position is NOT gonna address the elephant in the room. And that elephant weighs about the same as 11 million people.
If you will go back and read my page 1 post then you would find that I support the Rubio plan to deal with those 11 million people. I also added a few more parts I would like to see added.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
January 31st, 2013
3:24 pm
td,
The wiki article I posted talks about President Obama too. Did you read it or just knee jerk post?
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
3:24 pm
indigo – Actually, “the cat” posted that, not me.
my bad…
alex
January 31st, 2013
3:25 pm
@ skipper, you come to this site to get the Crazy far left, Then go to Kyle and get some Crazy far right and then you figure out something rational in the middle…alittle to the left a little to the right. Anyway how’s ginger and Mary Ann…….”Ya gotta laugh..”
I watched alittle Fox the other day and yes it can get a bit nauseating…I watched a little chris mathews the other day and yes it can be a bit nauseating..I read ‘the Beast’ the other day and yes it can get a little nauseating…I read the Washington Times a little yesterday and yes it can get a little nauseating….Time for some phenergan before I go home to do my watching and reading….
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:26 pm
“I’m asking because the two are not the same. A tourist visa is intended for trips of short duration. They are not given out for intended immigration purposes. If someone has the intention of coming here to live, then they apply for an immigrant visa.”
But how is that germane to the 3 points I made earlier (only one of which you quoted)?
Morality?
January 31st, 2013
3:26 pm
YOU need to change your name to GUTLESS & IGNORANT……
getalife
January 31st, 2013
3:27 pm
no morals,
It could be a culture thingie.
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
3:28 pm
Towncrier @ 3:20
That could be possible. Studying the methodology of terrorists, they prefer to simply blend into the crowd and attract as little attention as possible. Crossing the border illegally can potentially expose a cell or the entire network. Entering the country legally as a student and living as a student is less likely to expose them or the group.
Aquagirl
January 31st, 2013
3:31 pm
YOU need to change your name to GUTLESS & IGNORANT……
Now I gotta go read a bunch of posts to see what I missed, it must have been a doozy.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:33 pm
“Crossing the border illegally can potentially expose a cell or the entire network.”
How so? Are you saying that all of those apprehended are thoroughly scrutinized and that terrorists would not “pass” as Mexicans?
guy
January 31st, 2013
3:33 pm
Secure the border COMPLETELY, grant amnesty now as long as the background check is good, Must wait 15 years to vote as long as they remain good,law abiding folks.. But they can get amnesty very soon. Border must be 100% secure first. Fair for all!
Morality?
January 31st, 2013
3:33 pm
“God approves of abortions”……… No that would be YOU and despite your inflated opinion of yourself you are not God.
saywhat?
January 31st, 2013
3:34 pm
thulsa “special republican math” doom- “If only 30,000 or so have made it out over the past 60-70 years then that’s roughly 1 every other day making it out.”
————————–
365/2 = 182.5. 182.5 x 70 = 12,775
fail.
again.
Mathturbating causes hair to grow on your palms, and maybe blindness. You might want to stop.
That Black Guy
January 31st, 2013
3:34 pm
Regnad Kcin
January 31st, 2013
12:46 pm
“THE QUESTION IS WHY SHOULDN’T WE ADOPT THE MEXICAN IMMIGRATION LAWS……..’
Wait, I got another one! Because we’re not Mexico!!!??
__________________________________________
I trust that you will use a similar response when people use that logic when debating how other countries deal with gun control or healthcare?
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
3:35 pm
Tc – Well, stupid me…I clicked on the link without really looking at the URL.
I remember once at work I need the force of gravity to more decimal places than i could remember so I googled it…let’s just say stay way from a website called gforce
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
3:36 pm
But how is that germane to the 3 points I made earlier (only one of which you quoted)?
It’s germane to that one point because people have been skipping the line and will continue to do so without nary a squeak from people who say they oppose such actions.
Entering this country with a non-immigrant visa with the intention of living here is no different than crossing the border without being inspected by immigration officers. Under current immigration law, the two violations are covered under the same laws with the same actions, yet the conversation only covers half the “illegal” immigration problem. My addressing your point was to point out how broad and difficult it is to grasp the reality of the immigration problems we face.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:37 pm
““God approves of abortions”……… No that would be YOU and despite your inflated opinion of yourself you are not God.”
Well, I think He must if someone like Touré is thanking Him for it:
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/28/toure-thank-god-for-abortion/
Right?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
3:39 pm
TBG — I trust that you will use a similar response when people use that logic when debating how other countries deal with gun control or healthcare?
In all fairness if you read the comments, that post was in response not to a claim that Mexican law offered an intelligent, smart or even appropriate response to an issue that has been proven to work. It was a knee jerk claim that because “they did it” we should do it, lacking proof that they “did it” or that it applies to all immigrants or any semblance of an intelligent post.
Morality?
January 31st, 2013
3:39 pm
The borders can be guarded with a blanket of electronic surveillance – including drones. Or you could get extreme and throw in a few land mines.
td
January 31st, 2013
3:40 pm
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am…I think.
January 31st, 2013
3:24 pm
td,
The wiki article I posted talks about President Obama too. Did you read it or just knee jerk post?
I did read the article. The Dems did the same tactics during the Bush admin as the Republicans did during the Bush admin. The difference is that Bush did not decide to say it was his decision to determine when Congress was in recess. He actually waited.
Ben
January 31st, 2013
3:40 pm
I like how you bash the GOP for being against institutionalized racism (affirmative action).
Granny Godzilla
January 31st, 2013
3:41 pm
School shooting in Atlanta…..
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
3:41 pm
Are you saying that all of those apprehended are thoroughly scrutinized and that terrorists would not “pass” as Mexicans?
Those of us who do the apprehensions would know the difference. BP Agents will let you know the differences between Central Americans, and unless you have a Mexican convert, no Middle Easterner will pass as Mexican as there are techniques to figure those things out.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
3:43 pm
Cardinal Fang now works at the BP?
Aquagirl
January 31st, 2013
3:43 pm
Or you could get extreme and throw in a few land mines.
I’m sure people won’t object if we toss a few land mines in their backyards.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:44 pm
“Entering this country with a non-immigrant visa with the intention of living here is no different than crossing the border without being inspected by immigration officers.”
Agreed. So how many are we talking here – millions?
“My addressing your point was to point out how broad and difficult it is to grasp the reality of the immigration problems we face.”
So why not relate this thought to my third point about politicians? It is really not that hard to solve problems – even complex ones – when there is a will to do so. It just takes some engineering. I may be wrong, but I kind of get the sense you are a bit fatalistic about this issue. I guess if we don’t somehow find a way to demand more from our politicians, we are in for a world of hurt down the road.
Justin
January 31st, 2013
3:45 pm
Government let the immigration problem occur. Laws were not enforced and Americans have to live with the consequences. We can’t win the war on violence, poverty, drugs, etc. because the powers that be really don’t want to…The sooner the average American realizes this the better. We are quick to enforce rules in other countries but can’t do the same in America.
indigo
January 31st, 2013
3:45 pm
morality – 3:33
He may be refering to those thousands of spontaneous abortions that occur every week. Since your “God of love” doesn’t stop them, He must approve of them.
Right?
Oh, I forgot.
You have to consult with your fundamentalist pastor for the correct answer to this.
I can wait.
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
3:46 pm
Cardinal Fang now works at the BP?
lol….forgot all about that one
DannyX
January 31st, 2013
3:47 pm
“Border must be 100% secure first. Fair for all!”
Tell us guy, how much is this going to cost and how many people will it take?
Regnad Kcin
January 31st, 2013
3:49 pm
“BP Agents will let you know the differences between Central Americans, and unless you have a Mexican convert, no Middle Easterner will pass as Mexican as there are techniques to figure those things out.”
Offer them a taco carnitas?
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
3:49 pm
danny x
“Border must be 100% secure first. Fair for all!”
Tell us guy, how much is this going to cost and how many people will it take?
………………………………………………………………….
and who will define 100% secure ?
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
3:50 pm
Towncrier
When it comes to politicians, I am of the opinion that they screw up almost everything they get involved with. I seriously doubt there are more than 25 people in Congress that are knowledgeable of our immigration laws. I think the majority know no more than what they hear on tv. If you don’t know the law, how are you in a position to improve it?
DannyX
January 31st, 2013
3:51 pm
“Or you could get extreme and throw in a few land mines.”
Morality, you are against abortion but have no problem shooting and blowing up Christians trying to cross the border????
” …you are not God.”
Who would Jesus blow up?
Oscar
January 31st, 2013
3:51 pm
Justin – We have illegals and an immigration problem because companies like to hire cheap workers who they can take advantage of and mistreat.
Don’t blame the government for that.
Every time private companies do things tht are wrong cons blame the government for not regulating better.
And after that, they say they are against big government and regulation. What a show.
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
3:52 pm
indigo – He may be refering to those thousands of spontaneous abortions that occur every week. Since your “God of love” doesn’t stop them, He must approve of them.
Gods will vs free will…to answer the snarky question, yes then he must approve of the miscarriages
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
3:52 pm
Regnad Kcin
“BP Agents will let you know the differences between Central Americans, and unless you have a Mexican convert, no Middle Easterner will pass as Mexican as there are techniques to figure those things out.”
Offer them a taco carnitas?
………………………………………………………….
or a choice of taco or falafel…
skipper
January 31st, 2013
3:52 pm
@ Alex…
Good point……a person can have solid convicions with out being dogmatic or a zealot!
Thulsa Doom
January 31st, 2013
3:53 pm
“How do you think they manage to keep people from crossing their border? You severely restrict the freedoms and movements of the citizens.”
Bro,
What does securing our border from intruders have to do with restricting the freedoms and movements of our people inside our borders? That makes no sense.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
3:53 pm
DannyX, well you would have to use smart mines. Those that could blow up a pregnant mother but leave the fetus alive.
td
January 31st, 2013
3:53 pm
DannyX
January 31st, 2013
3:47 pm
“Border must be 100% secure first. Fair for all!”
Tell us guy, how much is this going to cost and how many people will it take?
So your answer is to not secure the border, give amnesty to 11 million and then what do we do in 10 more years when their are 10 million more?
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
3:53 pm
Regnad and frog
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
3:54 pm
Party of Dense, table of 1
Oscar
January 31st, 2013
3:54 pm
Bro – Politians are government workers. No better or worse than all as a group.
DannyX
January 31st, 2013
3:55 pm
“and who will define 100% secure ?”
Right, barking frog. That is the perfect technicality they put in there knowing there is no way possible to secure the border 100%.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
3:57 pm
“Those of us who do the apprehensions would know the difference. BP Agents will let you know the differences between Central Americans, and unless you have a Mexican convert, no Middle Easterner will pass as Mexican as there are techniques to figure those things out.”
Well I am sure the BP (in which my uncle was a chief for a number of years) sees it as a primary mission to keep terrorists out of our country. But you almost sound supremely confident that their “techniques” are foolproof – a proposition I simply do not buy. If there’s anything our “war on terror” has repeatedly shown us is that terrorists are very crafty and ingenious.
Regnad Kcin
January 31st, 2013
3:58 pm
“That is the perfect technicality they put in there knowing there is no way possible to secure the border 100%.’
“Sir, can you definitively prove, that not one person crossed the border illegally?”
Doggone/GA
January 31st, 2013
3:58 pm
“What does securing our border from intruders have to do with restricting the freedoms and movements of our people inside our borders? That makes no sense.”
Ummm…if you make the country extremely unattractive to live in (think North Korea here) then you have automatically secure borders because no one wants to get in. Of couse you DO have that problem of keeping people from getting OUT, but let’s not bring that up.
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
3:59 pm
DannyX 3:55
tricky litte republicans, still playing checkers with a chessmaster.
The executive will define secure borders by executive order if needed.
DannyX
January 31st, 2013
4:00 pm
“So your answer is to not secure the border, give amnesty to 11 million and then what do we do in 10 more years when their are 10 million more?”
I asked couple of simple questions td. Would you like to try a few?
How much will it cost to secure the border?
How many people will it take?
How brutal will the system be?
Would Jesus shoot and blow up Christians crossing the border?
How much are you willing to add to the deficit?
How much of a tax increase are you willing to pay?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
4:01 pm
If there’s anything our “war on terror” has repeatedly shown us is that terrorists are very crafty and ingenious.
Well then there is no point. If you cannot do it a 100%, don’t even try. The only way to stop a bad terrorist is a good terrorist with a gun.
And how do we stop home grown terrorists if they don’t cross the dang border. We can’t make them all take a trip to Canada.
Ronald Reagan
January 31st, 2013
4:03 pm
Marco Rubio will be the next President of the USA if anything is left.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
4:03 pm
“When it comes to politicians, I am of the opinion that they screw up almost everything they get involved with. I seriously doubt there are more than 25 people in Congress that are knowledgeable of our immigration laws. I think the majority know no more than what they hear on tv. If you don’t know the law, how are you in a position to improve it?”
I would agree. If you don’t understand the problem you are attempting to fix, how are you doing anything but following a trial and error approach? Engineers know this; lawyers do not. I just don’t know how we can have such a confederacy of dunces (to borrow from the great satirist Swift) running our nation/ How is that even possible?
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
4:04 pm
What does securing our border from intruders have to do with restricting the freedoms and movements of our people inside our borders? That makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense. If you wanted to illegally enter a country, would you choose a) North Korea b) the old USSR or c) the US? If police authorities had the legal justification to stop you at any time and ask for your “papers”, do you think this country would be easy for people to enter illegally and fall through the cracks? Do you think Americans would be willing to give up their freedoms to travel and move about with ease in order to mimic the systems in place in NK or the USSR?
Thulsa Doom
January 31st, 2013
4:05 pm
stands @ 3:23,
What I said that day to several of the libs was simple. To paraphrase I stated that a gun control response to the Newtown massacre based on the emotionalism of the moment was a foolish response- and that everyone needed to calm down and look at any reasonable, rational response that could reduce the possibility of Newtown. The only people that complained were the cat and granny godzilla. So if you really stretch it you could make the claim that it was insensitive but even then that’s quite a stretch.
The cat’s assertion that I “applauded” the Newtown massacre is simply beyond stupid.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
4:05 pm
“Well then there is no point. If you cannot do it a 100%, don’t even try.”
I will take 98-99% any day. But I am not at all sure that is what we are getting currently from the BP.
TaxPayer
January 31st, 2013
4:08 pm
If God did not want any abortions, he [she or whatever] could easily design that capability out. Unless… Nah. What good is a God if he [she or whatever] is not ALL powerful.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
4:08 pm
Doggone, don’t you comprehend that the evidence that the border is secure is that people are NOT getting out (ignore the DMZ and armies on the south). The fact that planning an escape would result in the death of remaining family members, the difficulty of the terrain, getting the materials and supplies could tip off others who might report you (out of fear for themselves if nothing else), the fact that the border to the north are cooperative in returning anyone who tried. Well those just are not relevant to “common sense”, see. How could you miss all this “common sense”?
Aquagirl
January 31st, 2013
4:09 pm
Would Jesus shoot and blow up Christians crossing the border?
If a pregnant woman steps on a land mine, does that make Morality an abortionist?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
4:10 pm
“beyond stupid” does not preclude “beyond scummy” as witnessed repeatedly in these threads.
That Black Guy
January 31st, 2013
4:11 pm
Welcome to the Occupation
January 31st, 2013
1:55 pm
I don’t know about you, but I would NOT want to be called a rube. That’s just me.
___________________
What’s a “rube”?
guy
January 31st, 2013
4:12 pm
DannyX How much has it cost for benefits for those who are here not legally? If you are going to spend money,do something that is needed. What’s wrong with having law and order when possible? You can’t just turn your back on everything. You can but then we have what we have now. A MESS! Stop letting the tail wag the dog!
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
4:12 pm
Towncrier: Well I am sure the BP (in which my uncle was a chief for a number of years) sees it as a primary mission to keep terrorists out of our country. But you almost sound supremely confident that their “techniques” are foolproof
Where have I stated any technique is foolproof? You’re suffering from a case of hearing what you want to hear. You asked if it were possible for a terrorist to pass as a Mexican. Ask your uncle if he can tell you the difference between someone from Honduras, Guatemala, and Mexico. Comparing those countries to Islamic culture, there are vast differences that are noticable and discernable to those who know the differences. Part of our job requires we know those things.
If there’s anything our “war on terror” has repeatedly shown us is that terrorists are very crafty and ingenious.
And yet, we still catch them. Look up Jihad Jane and Daniel Boyd and you’ll see that our techniques are “good” enough to keep up with their changes. I’m not going to disclose anything that shouldn’t be put here, but as Scout says, “You’re being kept by better men” when it comes to terrorism. No system will ever be foolproof, but we have stopped numerous plots on US soil since 9/11.
Thulsa Doom
January 31st, 2013
4:12 pm
“If police authorities had the legal justification to stop you at any time and ask for your “papers”, do you think this country would be easy for people to enter illegally and fall through the cracks?”
Bro,
I have no earthly idea where you are coming up with this stuff about the cops randomly stopping folks and asking them for papers a la the USSR. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking specifically about securing the actual border. Not harassing people inside. So I think you just misunderstood what I was talking about.
In reference to police stopping people and asking for ID I’m not cool with the cops just randomly asking people their immigration status just because they look Hispanic or may be overheard speaking Russian or whatever. But if you are pulled over for a routine traffic stop then I’ve no problem with that. Hell they do it already and I’ve been asked to provide ID to cops several times at DUI and insurance checkpoints. No biggie. Just show them your ID.
“Do you think Americans would be willing to give up their freedoms to travel and move about with ease in order to mimic the systems in place in NK or the USSR?”
Again. What does Americans traveling and freedom of movement have to do with stopping intruders from pouring across the border?
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
4:14 pm
“To paraphrase I stated that a gun control response to the Newtown massacre based on the emotionalism of the moment was a foolish response- and that everyone needed to calm down and look at any reasonable, rational response that could reduce the possibility of Newtown.”
Which make perfect sense to me. The rush to pass gun laws right after Newtown (and not all of the other shootings in the past 3 years) has little to do with whether or not those laws actually work, but simply with the UNPROVEN belief that they both work, are the MAIN solution to a poorly understood problem and the willful overlooking of the biggest cause of gun violence (handguns illegally possessed by criminals). In short, it is an idiotic non-solution to a complex and real problem. Freaking STUPID politicians.
Thulsa Doom
January 31st, 2013
4:15 pm
“You asked if it were possible for a terrorist to pass as a Mexican. Ask your uncle if he can tell you the difference between someone from Honduras, Guatemala, and Mexico.”- Brocephus
Well I’ve often been mistaken as a Prince of Romany. Or so I tell josef anyway.
Oscar
January 31st, 2013
4:17 pm
Who else would undertand and know how to pass laws better than lawyers. Laws are what they studied in school and what they work with every day. And their work is using laws to help their clients solve poblems.
Would you hire a bunch of carpenters to solve electrical problems or work on your vehical. Don’t think so.
td
January 31st, 2013
4:17 pm
DannyX
January 31st, 2013
4:00 pm
“So your answer is to not secure the border, give amnesty to 11 million and then what do we do in 10 more years when their are 10 million more?”
I asked couple of simple questions td. Would you like to try a few?
“How much will it cost to secure the border?”
Do not know and do not care but it must be done because it is a national security issue.
“How many people will it take?”
Do not know but drones, aircraft and a fence all the way across will cut down on the manpower need.
“How brutal will the system be?”
What system are you talking about?
“Would Jesus shoot and blow up Christians crossing the border?”
Not part of this conversation.
“How much are you willing to add to the deficit?”
Will pay for itself in Medicaid, education cost, hospital cost and other means tested entitlement programs
“How much of a tax increase are you willing to pay?”
Should not have to raise taxes. Take the money out of Medicaid.
Now answer my question:
What is the answer 10 years from now when we have an additional 10 million illegals and our borders are not secure and the visa system not fixed?
Regnad Kcin
January 31st, 2013
4:19 pm
““How much are you willing to add to the deficit?”
Will pay for itself in Medicaid, education cost, hospital cost and other means tested entitlement programs
=================
td – I have not seen this study. Can you please supply a link to the study that says, if we stop illegal immigration, it will pay for itself?
deegee
January 31st, 2013
4:20 pm
Keep laughing, Erwin. Ja-ja-ja-ja-ja-ja
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
4:23 pm
Oscar, you would not believe how many laws are not actually written by lawyers, especially at the state level. Lawyer participation as members of the legislative branch is also at an all time low in many states.
That Black Guy
January 31st, 2013
4:23 pm
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 31st, 2013
2:26 pm
Do you mean like Bob Menendez?
http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/31/dominican-prostitute-senator-bob-menendez-likes-the-youngest-and-newest-girls/
At least when us Dems have a sex scandal there is actually a woman in there somewhere.
_______________________________________
He is accused of s3x with UNDERAGED girls. What WOMEN are involved.
Also, Barney Frank’s ‘ho house scandel didn’t envolve women.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 31st, 2013
4:24 pm
Oscar: “Who else would undertand and know how to pass laws better than lawyers. Laws are what they studied in school and what they work with every day. And their work is using laws to help their clients solve poblems.
Would you hire a bunch of carpenters to solve electrical problems or work on your vehical. Don’t think so.”
The entire idea of democracy, coming down to us from the Greeks, is predicated on this not being the case, on the idea that laws are grounded in deliberation among informed citizens using reason.
So are you saying that belief is unfounded?
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
4:25 pm
Doom: …So I think you just misunderstood what I was talking about…
What does Americans traveling and freedom of movement have to do with stopping intruders from pouring across the border?
I perfectly understand what you’re talking about. You simply don’t understand what I’m saying. Let me break it down for you as simple as possible.
North Korea keeps people out and keeps people from crossing their border because who in the hell wants to? Who’s dying to go live in North Korea?
USSR kept people from crossing their border illegally because who in the hell wanted to go live there?
As long as the US espouses and practices the freedoms that we do, which almost no other country in the world does, we will remain an attractive place to live. Therefore we will always have people trying to come here to live. There is no way to secure the border 100% unless you make this country the worst possible place to live. To do that, you basically have to turn this country from one that has lots of freedom to one that has almost no freedom.
That’s the point I’m trying to make to you. Even if you put a million people along the borders, how do you stop people from legally entering and never leaving? That’s still illegal immigration.
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
4:25 pm
“And yet, we still catch them.”
Tell that to all of the soldiers who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps a good part of the reason we have not seen many attempts on US soil is that would-be terrorists are mainly engaged elsewhere. I guess we will see once a number of the battles and wars going on in the ME are ended how good we really are at preventing terrorism here.
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
4:28 pm
He is accused of s3x with UNDERAGED girls. What WOMEN are involved.
Also, Barney Frank’s ‘ho house scandel didn’t envolve women.
What’s that old song by Graham Central Station????
“Pow.
I got-cha.
Caught you with your funk down.
Pow.
I got-cha
So never let your guard down.
Pow.
I got-cha.
I caught you with your funk down.
Pow.
I got-cha, and someone told the whole town.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 31st, 2013
4:31 pm
Welcome, the reality between how a bill is drafted and becomes law and what should be done, even as taught in law school is frightening and, in my opinion, that gap is every widening in states like Georgia.
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
4:31 pm
Bro -Who’s dying to go live in North Korea?
Dude, haven’t you heard….they have unicorns…it doesn’t say a word about skittles though
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50054562#50054562
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
4:31 pm
“Who else would undertand and know how to pass laws better than lawyers. Laws are what they studied in school and what they work with every day. And their work is using laws to help their clients solve poblems. Would you hire a bunch of carpenters to solve electrical problems or work on your vehical.”
I would wish to hire someone who has a proven track record of solving problems rather than creating them – which the government does NOT. Let engineer-minded people come up with the viable solutions to problems and let the lawyers write the laws that stipulate those solutions.
Regnad Kcin
January 31st, 2013
4:33 pm
“Tell that to all of the soldiers who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps a good part of the reason we have not seen many attempts on US soil is that would-be terrorists are mainly engaged elsewhere.”
Or perhaps not. Next.
Erwin's cat
January 31st, 2013
4:34 pm
Tc – Let engineer-minded people come up with the viable solutions to problems and let the lawyers write the laws that stipulate those solutions.
Is that applause I hear?
Towncrier
January 31st, 2013
4:34 pm
Okay…I’m out. Goodnight all.
Regnad Kcin
January 31st, 2013
4:35 pm
“I would wish to hire someone who has a proven track record of solving problems rather than creating them – which the government does NOT”
TC – So, to have the least amount of problems, you advocate anarchy, correct?
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
4:36 pm
Perhaps a good part of the reason we have not seen many attempts on US soil is that would-be terrorists are mainly engaged elsewhere.
What number do you consider as many? Between 9/11 and and May 2009, Heritage Org counts 23 thwarted attacks.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/07/terrorist-watch-23-plots-foiled-since-9-11
Under that same time frame, wiki lists 18, and their total count is 29.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foiled_Islamic_terrorist_plots_in_the_post-9/11_United_States
That would put us in the ballpark of at least 3 attempts a year since 9/11.
Brosephus™
January 31st, 2013
4:38 pm
EC
I don’t like unicorns. That whole one horn thing is freaky!!!
GA Latino
January 31st, 2013
4:39 pm
(late to the party, but loving the cold drinks…)
To those who say that Latinos are not as “natural” a GOP constituency as they thought, this may be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that Bush got 44% of the latino vote in 2004 and Romney got 27% in 2012, from a MUCH larger pool of voters motivated by the hateful rhetoric.
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
4:40 pm
Towncrier
. Let engineer-minded people come up with the viable solutions to problems and let the lawyers write the laws that stipulate those solutions.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………
which discipline would be better electrical ? chemical ? civil ? or let ayn decide ?
barking frog
January 31st, 2013
4:44 pm
Brosephus
I don’t like unicorns. That whole one horn thing is freaky!!!
…………………………………………………………
maybe you are confusing them with eunuch horns…