Ga.’s back-door voucher program riddled with deception

From its inception, Georgia’s tax-funded private-school “scholarship” program has been shrouded in deception and guile. Its champions have misled the public and state legislators about the purpose of the program, how it would function and who it would benefit, and they continue to mislead today.

Yet with state money tight and public schools struggling just to stay open the traditional 180 days, defenders of the scholarship program want to double the size of the program to $100 million a year.

I have a better idea: If the program can’t be made open and accountable, with demonstrable evidence that it is serving those it was created to help, it ought to be abolished altogether.

Let’s take a minute to review how the program works: As a Georgia taxpayer or corporation, when you contribute a dollar to a private-school scholarship program, an offsetting dollar is deducted directly from your state tax bill. For example, if you have a state tax bill of $2,500 and donate $2,500 for a scholarship, your tax bill falls to zero. Since 2008, the program has diverted more than $170 million of state tax revenue to private schools.

According to its supporters, the program was supposed to help finance private-school scholarships for poor children stuck in underperforming public schools. Oddly, though, the law contained no means-testing for recipients, and it quickly became obvious why. The program was a scam. Once it was passed, supporters started openly pitching the program as a means for affluent parents of children already in private school to arrange a state tax subsidy.

“You can take this chunk of money and be able to say, “No, I want this money to go to education, and not just education, I want it to go to the school of my choice, and maybe even more detailed, (to) the student of my choice,” one legislator told parents.

The question of accountability is also critical. Public schools face increasing and understandable demands to be accountable for their use of tax money and their effectiveness. Students face required standardized testing; teacher evaluations are mandated; school districts are losing autonomy to the state. State officials may even strip members of DeKalb County School Board from office for failing to do their jobs properly.

So what accountability is being required from private schools accepting tax money? None. As in literally, none. We have no idea what kind of education our $170 million in tax money has provided. We have no idea who is getting the scholarships. In fact, in 2011 legislators passed a law making it a crime to release any information about the inner workings of the program.

It makes no sense: Why require increasingly minute oversight of public school dollars, while at the same time mandating willful, total blindness to how taxpayer dollars are being spent in a private setting?

In addition, much of the money is being used to subsidize schools that freely acknowledge that they discriminate against students and parents on the basis of religion. Taxpayer money should not be used in that fashion. As the Southern Education Foundation recently pointed out, those state tax dollars are also being used to subsidize schools that refuse to serve gay students or in some cases even bar students who dare to support gay rights for others.

At Providence Christian Academy near Lilburn, for example, students can be expelled or barred for “promoting, supporting, or condoning … homosexual activity or bisexual activity,” a policy that presumably would also bar the children of gay parents from attending or receiving a scholarship.

As a private institution, the folks at Providence Christian and other schools have every right to maintain that policy. Having such policies subsidized by the taxpayer is another matter entirely. If such discrimination wouldn’t be tolerated in a public school financed with taxpayer money, why should it be tolerated in a private school that is also financed with taxpayer money?

On Monday, SEF officials submitted a complaint to the state Department of Revenue that documents in great detail multiple, widespread, blatant and continuing violations of state law regarding the scholarship program. (The full complaint is available here; it makes convincing reading.) It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of it.

– Jay Bookman

507 comments Add your comment

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
8:04 am

Tax dollars being spent without accountability? So where are the cons yelling about waste, fraud and failures while the state GOP implements this insanity.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
8:06 am

“You can take this chunk of money and be able to say, “No, I want this money to go to education, and not just education, I want it to go to the school of my choice, and maybe even more detailed, (to) the student of my choice,” one legislator told parents.

Just a reminder–GA has, for years, provided a perfectly legitimate tax-deductible “Path2College” 529 plan to help parents save for tuition expenses. That’s as far as any “help” to private schools should ever go.

This is, as Jay correctly notes, a scam.

godless heathen - owner of many things he does not need

January 30th, 2013
8:10 am

THIS SUCKS!

Here I am yelling about it.

Just more use of the tax codes in nefarious ways. Use of public money for the benefit of a few is wrong, no matter who does it.

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
8:12 am

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of it.

Nothing will. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these corrupt politicians wrote that law exactly as they wanted it to operate. They’re not going to change a thing.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:17 am

“You can take this chunk of money and be able to say, “No, I want this money to go to education, and not just education, I want it to go to the school of my choice, and maybe even more detailed, (to) the student of my choice,”
.
Choice………………………….That’s cool with me.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:18 am

And it’s the decent thing to do.

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
8:20 am

Bro

Did anyone here in their RIGHT mind think this wasn’t a scam?

:-)

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:21 am

“Choice………………………….That’s cool with me.”

So if that is the goal why not be honest? Why all the deception and secrecy?

What a great “Christian” example this program is setting!

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
8:21 am

Here I am yelling about it.

and GH, that’s why I love you.

(in a spiritual way, not in a David Brooks/Lindsay Graham/Chris Matthews physical way. NTTAWWT.)

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
8:22 am

ANY PARENT that wants their child to go to a PRIVATE SCHOOL always had that choice.

Mine made the sacrifice to send me, MAN up you leeches

GT

January 30th, 2013
8:22 am

The state of Georgia is like an alcoholic. It can’t afford highways or Hope but can struggle out of bed for purpose of segregation. Religion in some parts of the country is a code word for discrimination.

If they clean up this state and made it livable we might attract the business that pay taxes instead of soak the state and leave us broker than we were before they came like Kia. We do everything we can to stay in the gutter and then try to blame it on the rest of the world. A void of leadership, a lack of will, an isolated society.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
8:23 am

Why all the deception and secrecy?

Remember that “Freedom for me, but not for thee” thingie I posted downstairs?

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
8:23 am

sfd

I am seeing a kinda ’stuck in the feeling’ with you and GH j/k

LOL

Cherokee

January 30th, 2013
8:23 am

Thanks for your comments Jay, but as Bro says, nothing will change. The legislators who support this know it’s a dishonest scam, but they don’t care.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:24 am

“Mine made the sacrifice to send me, MAN up you leeches”

:-)

This is an example of the entitlement crowd. They are leeches that want everything for FREE! I’ll bet the parents even shop at Whole Foods!

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
8:26 am

Danny

with their EBT cards no less :-)

indigo

January 30th, 2013
8:27 am

Republican politicians want a huge number of Christian Academys to spring up all over Gerogia. This will satisfy their fundamentalist base since these “adademys” will teach the following:

1. The Earth is 6,000 years old.
2. Men and dinosaurs walked together.
3. Evolution and astromony are liberal tools of the devil.
4. The New Testament is the proven word of God.
5. God will bless only the Republican Party.

You may wonder why our elected officials are willing to lie, cheat and mislead to get these academys.

So that they can continue to get those votes, of course.

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
8:28 am

Did anyone here in their RIGHT mind think this wasn’t a scam?

I was about to get snarky, but you did put that friggin’ qualifier “RIGHT” in that question. That said, I can’t think of anybody who meets that criteria that didn’t see this as a scam.

:)

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
8:29 am

Time to go to work so I can support you LAZY BLOGGERS, especially those on the Gov’t dole Bro :-)

Dwoody

January 30th, 2013
8:29 am

This is the “Holy Grail” of many Turbo-Christians in Georgia (pun intended).

It infuriates them to pay the school portion of their property taxes while not directly benefiting, as they either send their kids to Private School or Home-School. To Hell with our need to educate the masses.

They will yell and scream about people not paying enough taxes, yet they love their little carve out because lets face it, religious schools are “Good”, and “Good” things (like themselves and their little re-education camps) need to be protected!

godless heathen - owner of many things he does not need

January 30th, 2013
8:30 am

and GH, that’s why I love you.

I even writ my local rep about it, but since I’m not a big $$$ donor, I doubt my opinion meant much.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:31 am

As per Bookman………a trillion dollars of tax money going to Banks(TARP) or billions of dollars of tax money going to GM is cool…………….but not to schools?
.
This Does not compute.

And, just what is the difference...

January 30th, 2013
8:33 am

…in this scenario and what Obuma’s policies are doing to the rest of the population?

Jay, I can’t believe that you wrote on a topic that is so apropo regarding Obuma’s policies and the class who like to take, take, take – thanks for having a conservative view on something!

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:34 am

“Nothing will. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these corrupt politicians wrote that law exactly as they wanted it to operate.”

Brosephus, just summarized the whole scam. When they debate the increase in funding that will double the amount of tax credits available they will deflect. They will only talk about how this program is so good for poor children that normally wouldn’t have the means to attend private school. They won’t offer any proof that this program is doing what it is supposed to. They might as well name it the Wink, Wink bill. Everyone knows its a scam. They will get the funding, it will pass.

GT

January 30th, 2013
8:35 am

The real collateral damage is the Christian faith. They have genetically changed the word of God, the teaching of Jesus, taken their place so to speak. God in their movie would be played by Jackie Gleason, a sheriff, on the take, telling all they are in a heap of trouble. Jesus would be a slicked down version of Ralph Reed with the Rolex shining in the glory of the Lord.

The biggest industry in Georgia is political crooks. You can’t tax crooks no more than we seem to be able to tax any other recruited industry we entertain in this state. I imagine that is another leak in the state budget of 100s of millions of dollars.

Peadawg

January 30th, 2013
8:37 am

I keep saying it over and over…

IF YOU WANT YOUR KID TO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL THEN PAY FOR IT YOURSELF

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:37 am

Well of course. The secrecy and deception of this scam is all Obama’s fault. I just knew it!

Dwoody

January 30th, 2013
8:40 am

Sorry everyone. I’ve just re-evaluated my position and am in favor of this program. I believe this is an efficient way to educate our children. No money will be wasted on biology, geology, or chemistry text books. No need for costly science labs, Bunsen burners, or Union Thug physics teachers.

Students will be considered science literate after a 20 minute reading of the Book of Genesis.

alex

January 30th, 2013
8:40 am

Simple question, what’s the benefit of paying taxes to the state for a public education, if the parent chooses to send their child to a private school, it seems to me that the “tax break” may be appropriate if the parent does not make use of something they are being forced to pay….I agree that some sort of evaluation of the education would and is necesary, but following Jay one must consider “the rest of the story”…
@GT, “segregation and discrimination, same old bigotry rubbish, move on man, Jay’s article implied nothing of the sort , nor would it be acceptable…

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
8:42 am

“Tax dollars being spent without accountability? So where are the cons yelling about waste, fraud and failures while the state GOP implements this insanity”

Here!!!

The problem you liberals have is you think conservatives are ok with abuse in programs we like. We don’t. Period. I guess you get that impression because you’re ok with it or something???? The bottom line is, bigger government breeds fraud and abuse regardless of the program because none of them are spending money they’re responsible for either earning or defending. They have no competition that forces them to be efficient so they can justify 15 people to do the jobs of 10 when all of them are only working half the day.

You all know this is true, but you keep growing and growing and growing the government as if it either doesn’t matter or you don’t care because King Obama keeps promising to make somebody else pay all the bills.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
8:43 am

Jay just doesn’t like the private sector being he’s a left wing gub’ment man. Can I ask you ONE question Jay? What kind of shape are the gub’ment run Atlanta city schools in with those dishonest cheating teachers and why are those teachers still on the job?

straitroad

January 30th, 2013
8:45 am

Jay, I agree that this is a bad idea and I thought so from the beginning. This is being used for athletics instead of academics. If parents want to send their kids to private school, they must make that sacrifice and not expect the taxpayer to foot the bill.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:45 am

“Why require increasingly minute oversight of public school dollars, while at the same time mandating willful, total blindness to how taxpayer dollars are being spent in a private setting?”
.
Wouldn’t that be up to the parents who ACTUALLY paid money to the school?
I doubt that the parents of a child are blind to how their money is being spent…….but then again………to a prog……….only the State is qualified to oversee how money is spent.
.
lol

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
8:45 am

Bookman doesn’t provide us with the number of disadvantaged students who benefit from this program. It’s all them white Bible thumpers who are scamming the system and discriminating against them gay people. Also, would Bookman like to provide us with the number of GA taxpayers that are “taking advantage” of everyone by taking tax credits in this manner? There is a funny feeling running up my leg that tells me that we are only, as usual, getting half the story.

GT

January 30th, 2013
8:46 am

With the right it is always someone else’s fault. The only clever stuff they come up with is the deception of their hate, like blind trust contributing to political candidates in as large a denomination as they please, so they can set the political stage to steal more money.

They complain about the meal but never cook one themselves. They eat but never bring to the party. And when the food is all gone they blame it on the preparers of that food.

[...] Read more. [...]

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:46 am

“@GT, “segregation and discrimination, same old bigotry rubbish, move on man, Jay’s article implied nothing of the sort , nor would it be acceptable…”

Here’s your problem alex, you have nothing to back up your post. If the program was open for all to see you could use data to back up your claim but you can’t. Why all the secrecy? What do they need to hide?

“Move on man” is not a valid defense.

retiredds

January 30th, 2013
8:47 am

Republicans? Deception? Please tell me it is not true.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
8:47 am

This Fed gub’ment is like a cancer in phase IV …….. out of control and killing the FISCAL future of the USA. Remove the cancer and start chemo before it’s to late. Use experimental rugs if you have to. Obama quit wasting time on your pet projects and FINALLY do something about the ever growing cancer known as the Fed debt. You weren’t hired to do nothing.

Soothsayer

January 30th, 2013
8:48 am

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:48 am

“Bookman doesn’t provide us with the number of disadvantaged students who benefit from this program.”

Why don’t you share the information with us, kayaker?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
8:48 am

godless, glad to hear you. Perhaps if more join in, especially conservatives who elect these officials, to demand accountability and to end this black hole, something can be done. Unfortunately looks like you may be a lonely conservative on this.

This is one of those circumstances where groups like the ACLU and others are needed to stop the indirect subterfuge funding in violation of our constitutional rights. Will Gov Deal call for tax audits and penalties for those who violate tax laws?

Paul

January 30th, 2013
8:48 am

“much of the money is being used to subsidize schools that freely acknowledge that they discriminate against students and parents on the basis of religion. ”

Complain to the State Dept of Internal Revenue? Sound like a good lawsuit case to me.

““You can take this chunk of money and be able to say, “No, I want this money to go to education, and not just education, I want it to go to the school of my choice, and maybe even more detailed, (to) the student of my choice,”
.
Choice………………………….That’s cool with me.”

Trolling or serious? It’s difficult to tell with you, Thomas Heyward Jr

So you’d be fine with a couple hundred million tax dollars diverted to schools that barred those professing the Christian faith or who barred those those who practice only heterosexual unions or sexual partners, right?

Peadawg 8″37

I wonder if those mid-to-upper income folks consider themselves ‘takers’?

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:48 am

Peadawg

January 30th, 2013
8:37 am

I keep saying it over and over…

IF YOU WANT YOUR KID TO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL THEN PAY FOR IT YOURSELF
—————————————————————————-
.
It seems as if that is what THEY”RE DOING.
.
lol

Paul

January 30th, 2013
8:50 am

RB

“the problem you liberals have is you think conservatives are ok with abuse in programs we like. We don’t. Period. I guess you get that impression because you’re ok with it or something????”

How about liberals think that about conservatives because cons never include such items in their laundry list of waste and abuse by government? It’s always ‘food stamps, Medicare, unemployment, Big Bird…”

Jay scooped TMZ and Deadspin

January 30th, 2013
8:52 am

Yup, it’s those dang Republican’s kids grabbing all the money, again. They are like Scrooge McDuck, rolling in the $$$ that lines the halls of all their private schools. Once again, Jay busted them. So much for the annual report showing EXACTLY where the money goes.
2011 GOAL Report

Below 24K income= 58 %
24k-36K=22%
36K-48K= 11%
48K and above= Less than 9%
http://www.goalscholarship.org/docLib/20121126_GOALResultsAt112012forWebsite.pdf

Paul

January 30th, 2013
8:52 am

Thomas H jr

“Wouldn’t that be up to the parents who ACTUALLY paid money to the school?”

You’re speaking of public schools, correct? So are you for abolishing all accountability testing, teacher reviews, etc done by the state? ‘Cause parents should monitor all that?

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
8:52 am

Key stuck – meant to say EXPERIMENTAL DRUGS. GT – if you want to talk about preparing food go to foodchannel.com.

F. Sinkwich

January 30th, 2013
8:54 am

“If the program can’t be made open and accountable, with demonstrable evidence that it is serving those it was created to help, it ought to be abolished altogether.”

How conservative of you, Jay. Too bad lib ilks have such a poor record of doing exactly that.

How many “Save the Children” and “Old People Preservation” Acts have been passed into law that never ever have to pass any such test? Tons.

As soon as someone (usually conservative) points out how wasteful and ineffective any of these programs are, he is demonized by Dems as hating children and the elderly.

So taxpayers can direct their own money to education programs they support? That’s a “Taxpayer Support Act.” You must hate taxpayers. Tsk tsk.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:54 am

Paul——-
.
Choice………………………….That’s cool with me.”

Trolling or serious? It’s difficult to tell with you, Thomas Heyward Jr

So you’d be fine with a couple hundred million tax dollars diverted to schools that barred those professing the Christian faith or who barred those those who practice only heterosexual unions or sexual partners, right?
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
.
If the couple hundred million dollars was MY taxmoney that I VOLUNTARILY paid …………….and I believed in whatever curriculum……..then YES…….I would be fine with it.
.
What part of “choice” do you NOT understand.
No amount of Bookman’s nor YOUR tax money will be going to a private school.
.
Am I getting something wrong here?

Jay

January 30th, 2013
8:55 am

““Bookman doesn’t provide us with the number of disadvantaged students who benefit from this program…. Also, would Bookman like to provide us with the number of GA taxpayers that are “taking advantage” of everyone by taking tax credits in this manner? There is a funny feeling running up my leg that tells me that we are only, as usual, getting half the story.”

That’s because — as pointed out in the column — the state has made release of such data a crime. Now why would they do such a thing? As kayaker himself implies, such info would be useful in assessing the effectiveness of the program. Yet the state has gone to great lengths to ensure we don’t see it.

So kayaker, why do you think that is?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
8:55 am

RB, did you bother to read the linked report about how state GOP has made it a crime to report information regarding this black hole program….. Your ODS is a plank in your eye. But nice rant.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
8:55 am

Soothsayer

“GOOD! Now she and I don’t have to sneak around any more! ”

Saw her on a late-night talk show recently. I thought her repeated use of ‘forsooth!” was a weird affectation. NOW I know it was really two words while she was thinking about you, you sly hound dog, you1

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
8:55 am

“Riddled with Deception.”……. reminds me of the Obama regime. So gub’ment just “riddles deceptionally on.” —— that’s how gub’ment has been Jay for the last 50 years.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:57 am

”“the problem you liberals have is you think conservatives are ok with abuse in programs we like. We don’t. Period. I guess you get that impression because you’re ok with it or something????”

Right rb, last week the issue was Chip Rogers’ $150,000 GPB scam. You conservatives just give off the wrong impression, its all a big misunderstanding!

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
8:57 am

TERM LIMITS for Congress to remove the gub’ment riddled with deception.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

Paul

January 30th, 2013
8:52 am

Thomas H jr

“Wouldn’t that be up to the parents who ACTUALLY paid money to the school?”

You’re speaking of public schools, correct? So are you for abolishing all accountability testing, teacher reviews, etc done by the state? ‘Cause parents should monitor all that?
—————————————————————————————
.
No..I was not speaking of public schools.
I was countering Bookman’s claim that private schools have no accountability.
Just because the State is not involved doesn’t mean that there is no accountability.
.
see free market.
It’s MUCH more effective.

Pancake

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

Little (do as I say not as I do) Barry’s back in Vegas after lecturing the corporate CEO’s not to do so. This is real leadership from the top on down. The state’s are just pancakes after all the fed BS rolls downhill to their level.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO BYPASS THE SCHOOL SYSTEM???????

Atlanta Public Schools cheating scandal
DeKalb County Schools’ accreditation placed on probation
New indictment may be handed down in DeKalb school scandal
Accreditation troubles for Clayton County Schools?

those darn republicans should be ashamed for what they have done to those school systems

Dumb and Dumber

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

Good article, although I can see the complete ignorance of our tax code dripping in the comments (just keep voting Democrat, don’t worry, it will all work out). Someone mentioned 529 plans, that’s for college and you take “after tax” dollars and invest them and the earnings-if any-(if applied to qualifying educational expenses at college level) are not taxed. Georgia GOAL does nothing for the taxpayer. I pay $2,500 into the fund, my taxes go down $2500 at the state level. I’m even, no benefit to me whatsoever. Whether there are machinations going on behind the scene (heck, in plain sight/darkness) of how the money is actually used by the schools, that’s a different subject. It should be afforded exactly the same scrutiny as payments to non existent vendors, fraudulent doctors/medical practices, payments to dead people (who live at vacant lots, PO Boxes, and still find ways to vote, etc.). Every government program involves some sort of waste/fraud, it is a given.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

“Am I getting something wrong here?”

Yes, Thomas, everything.

Union

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

you atlanta folks be safe and keep your head down today.. dont want anything to happen to the people i so enjoy debating with.

Soothsayer

January 30th, 2013
8:59 am

Paul: she was supposed to keep it on the “down low!”

Ronald Reagan Parkway

January 30th, 2013
9:01 am

All of this on Nathan Deal’s watch….who would have thought that the most ethically challenged Governor of this great state would have this type of problem? After all, he did make changes to the Hope Scholarship and placed a trick Charter School Amendment on the ballot in November. You get what you vote for Georgia.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:02 am

“Atlanta Public Schools cheating scandal
DeKalb County Schools’ accreditation placed on probation
New indictment may be handed down in DeKalb school scandal
Accreditation troubles for Clayton County Schools?”

Can you tell us what percentage of students in those areas are benefiting from this program Uncle Samantha?

Whoops, no you can’t, the information is secret!

Just as I claimed earlier, the supporters of this program will make all these glorious claims with nothing to back them up with.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:03 am

X – Congress is all about getting elected, staying elected, retiring to a fat pension and getting a job getting richer in D.C. Jammy Codder has been a resident of D.C. for near 50 years – lot’s more payoff there . He just returns to Plains for photo ops. A little deception on the state level is just intern work for the next level – Congress & the Prezidency.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:03 am

Thomas

“If the couple hundred million dollars was MY taxmoney that I VOLUNTARILY paid …………….and I believed in whatever curriculum……..then YES…….I would be fine with it.
.
What part of “choice” do you NOT understand.”

” Am I getting something wrong here?”

I think so. Jay’s thread and my question had to do with DIVERSION of funds. When the question is framed in context of going to institutions that prohibit Christians or heterosexuals, you switch to ‘your’ money that you ‘voluntarily’ paid.

Same thing’s happening with the ‘choice’ schools. So let’s rephrase and get the concept: are you okay with the state diverting or ‘taking tax money voluntarily paid (HEY! since when are tax contributions VOLUNTARY?) and giving it to private schools that prohibit Christians or straights from attending?

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
9:03 am

Bookman doesn’t provide us with the number of disadvantaged students who benefit from this program.

Hell, the program sponsors and the legislators who wrote the laws can’t provide you with that number either. The legislation was purposefully written to be as big of a loophole as possible with as little enforcement or transparency as possible. Don’t blame Bookman for the shenanigans of the Georgia GOP.

Lance in Carrollton

January 30th, 2013
9:04 am

My main problem with the school choice program is that rather than improving the community that a child lives in, parents simply move the student to another community. Where is the civic pride that once thrived in this country? If the school where a child goes to is not up to standard, why not fix it? This is the community where you live! If the school graduates people not prepared to survive in the world, they will be your neighbors. This concept is good in theory, move a child away from a low-performing school. But, I can tell you as an educator, teachers do the best they can with what we have. There is a direct correllation with parental involvement and student success.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:04 am

so taxpayer money SHOULDN’T go to organizations that believe against homosexuality………… but it SHOULD go to organizations that promote underage sexual activity and abortions

HMMMMMMM

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
9:04 am

“I doubt that the parents of a child are blind to how their money is being spent…….but then again………to a prog……….only the State is qualified to oversee how money is spent.”

True. Its a mystery as to how the kook liberal mind works. They seem to think a gubment bureaucrat who has no stake in the child’s educational outcome and who has little or no accountability if he is wrong, is more qualified to see how money is spent on a kid’s education than the parent of the kid. And the parent of the kid can directly see whether or not the kid is getting a good education for the money being spent. How it is that liberals can’t understand this difference in direct accountability is nothing short of mind boggling.

Choice- a word that liberals hate- cept in abortion.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
9:05 am

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
8:58 am

“Am I getting something wrong here?”

Yes, Thomas, everything.
————————————————————-
.
Hey Danny boi————–
Does your tax money go to paying for abortions?
.
I rest my case.

Tom da bomb

January 30th, 2013
9:06 am

I believe the legislator who was advising parents on how to benefit from this scam was Rep. David Casas, a Gwinnett County Republican.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:07 am

Thomas H jr

“No..I was not speaking of public schools. I was countering Bookman’s claim that private schools have no accountability.Just because the State is not involved doesn’t mean that there is noaccountability.”

Let’s try this again.

Why are you okay with state oversight of publicly-funded schools run by the state but not with state oversight of publicly-funded schools run by a corporation?

or

Why are you for only parental oversight of publicly-funded schools run by corporations but not for publicly-funded schools run by the government?

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:08 am

Jay – When the “graduates” of public schools learn to read, write and do simple math we won’t need any alternative schools – social promotion ruined public schools. Now they want to give them all something for nothing and just get them gradeated….. since we now have “educators” and very few real TEACHERS in the ATLANTA school system.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:08 am

kinda like adopt a mile…………. we take your money
what!!!!!!!!
kkk adopt a mile…………
no………… you cann’t

what!!!!!!!
courts say you can’t deny them because you don’t like or believe what they say

why not…………. only MY view is correct………. we are above the law because we are RIGHT

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:08 am

SCOOPED, that report was issued by GOAL, one of the seven organizations approved to accept and distribute the scholarship funds and the only one to be transparent and to make an apparent effort to abide by the intent of the legislation. Thanks for bringing that up.

Look before I leap...

January 30th, 2013
9:10 am

Jay,

Gotta question here:
If I pay 10K/yr to send my kid to the Bonny Meadow Intelligent Design Academy and I contribute 5K to their scholarship program, can I specify that the 5K goes to a scholarship that benefits my kid? In other words, is Bonny Meadow going to give me a discount of 5K (and I get my corresponding tax break)?

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
9:10 am

Paul, “How about liberals think that about conservatives because cons never include such items in their laundry list of waste and abuse by government? ”

Don’t overlook “scale”, Paul. This program doesn’t hold a candle to the ones you listed and most people don’t major in the minors.

alex

January 30th, 2013
9:10 am

@ Danny, I have nothing to back up as I did not initially accuse the program of discrimination in the first place, GT did, read his post. Herein lies the problem you and GT go into this discussion with the bias that there must be a racial bias, I do not. You choose to confirm your bias by your unfounded statements. I do not. I do not know the program but do NOT apriori assumes that it is discriminatory, I am not a bigot , you and GT are. simple explanation. You and GT do this all the time and to a greater or lesser degree we all have our biases, mine happen to be different from yours. Jay is biases against anything that smacks of conservative philosophical approach, I am biased against stupidity, mine and yours…..relax.

skipper

January 30th, 2013
9:11 am

I am not for “scams”, but folks would (and should) be willing to do about anything to keep their kids out of a system like Dekalb. Not a single company owner is going to move here and put his kids in an inner city school. Part of the problem (and the elephant in the room) is that nobody will truthfully discuss the issues. Of course poverty is a major problem. However the inner-city culture has taken root, and instead of acknowledgement and discussion, if you point this out “race-race-race” is the one and only thing where the blame gets placed. Did it ever occur to anyone that the cluster that is Dekalb is not gonna improve much in the next ten or more years? APS, with the exception of some of the outer-fringe locations, is a cluster. Call it what you will, and I am not sure what the solution is, but sacrificing your kids to this mess for the sake of political correctness is not going to educate them properly.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:11 am

Morality?

“When the “graduates” of public schools learn to read, write and do simple math we won’t need any alternative schools ”

Have you evidence that attendees of Georgia’s private schools receiving the tax dollars do a superior job in this regard?

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
9:11 am

Paul————
.
See my 9:05.
You could destroy the conservative arguement by mentioning tax-payer abortions…..but it’s not possible because you claim that tax-payer money doens NOT pay for abortions.(as per the ridiculous arguement of Planned Parenthood.)
.
Ya’ll strolled right into the progressive statist logic trap.
.
lol

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:12 am

“Hey Danny boi————–
Does your tax money go to paying for abortions?”

Thomas H, I want a tax credit that pays for them. I also want a tax credit for Muslim schools. I want a tax credit for a Spanish only school. Hey its my money! I want a tax credit to open The Black Panther School. No amount of your money will be used!

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:12 am

Really, Morality?

I personally know quite a few very fine teachers working in the Atlanta Public Schools system. Some of them helped to provide my two daughters an excellent education that helped them get into two of the most competitive universities in the country and to now excel in their chosen fields.

St Simons - aboriginal

January 30th, 2013
9:12 am

Things you will learn if you go to a sneaky back door
for-profit-jaysuss-rode-the-dinosaur scam (refuse to call it a school) –

http://wonkette.com/481709/louisiana-thinks-funding-school-run-by-apostle-and-prophet-is-somehow-constitutional

the very FIRST thing we do when the sane people get back in
charge (if we haven’t moved to key west by then), is draw, quarter,
scalp (heheh), and gut this travesty, and flush it like like the
excrement it is.

Dwoody

January 30th, 2013
9:13 am

@Dumb and Dumber,

You are correct from a personal standpoint. Lets say your income incurred a $2500 dollar tax bill to the State. You contribute $2500 to the fund and you are still out of pocket $2500, no problem. Remember though, this program enables you to “elect” where your tax dollars are spent specifically. Your ‘election” removes this $2500 from the general funds needed to run the State (State Troopers, roads, University system, Medicaid etc.). Worse, the private schools can teach what they wish using your money that should instead be going to Georgia to pay for day-today operations.

TBone

January 30th, 2013
9:13 am

So you are worried about accountability now. I think anyone that knows anything about education knows your student will recieve a better eduction at a private school than a government run school. But you’re concerned about using tax payer money here? I thought all along the liberal mindset was hey we are cruising on the the Titanic so we might as well go first class.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:14 am

Jay – When the Repubs reach the slimy “skill level” of the King Roy reign I will become concerned but they are like in day school compared to the damage King Roy and his henchman Tom Murphy did to this state. You can rant and whine on about the Repubs and play the “white ole men” RACE CARD on them but the people of Georgia will never forget the arrogance and. ineptness of King Roy Barnes. Speak about “white ole men” – that describes King Roy & Tom Murphy from the big gub’ment LEFT.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:15 am

RB

And on the state level that applies? So when have you and others cited this in your laundry list when speaking of waste in Georgia imposed by liberals?

Dumb and dumber

” I pay $2,500 into the fund, my taxes go down $2500 at the state level. I’m even, no benefit to me whatsoever. ”

Actually, you are $2500 ahead. That money was going to be out of your pocket in taxes. You’ve spent $2500 and you received an ADDITIONAL benefit worth $2500 that you would have had to lay out an additional $2500 to receive if the current tax law was not in effect.

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
9:15 am

The GA state scholarship program was passed under GA state bill 1133 in 2008. There are certain rules under this bill that apply to tax deductions by individuals. The max on tax credit exemptions for individuals is 1K/yr, while for couples is 2.5K. There is a statewide cap of 50M for the program in any one fiscal year. The programs is limited to those individuals whose family collectively makes only 85K/yr. with preference going to low income families. At present there only 29 private schools in GA that qualify for money from this program….. they are listed in the bill. By now, there may be more. 90% of money collected from this program must be spent on scholarships. The real cooker in this whole scenario?……. the annual amount spent on any one student in the program cannot exceed what would have been spent in a public school.
So, what do we learn from the above? If you make over 85K, you are exempt from participating in the program. That lets out most of those evil rich Republicans that Bookman is so eager to vilify. And if you expect this “donation” to cover even a fraction of your private school expense, you are whistling Dixie. Most of these private schools charge in excess of 10K plus/yr. Tell the whole story Bookman. It gives you more credibility.

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
9:16 am

Jay,

On a different note I haven’t much time lately to blog but I re-read your column from last week on the Virginia plan to change the electoral vote system. And I have to admit you were right about it being inherently unfair that a state’s electoral votes would go 70-30 to a GOP candidate in an election that was split roughly 52/48. Doesn’t seem right.

I still don’t oppose states doing it this way though. I would just think the courts would have to step in and possibly redraw lines or do something to ensure that gerrymandering doesn’t result in a very distorted electoral outcome similar to what would have happened in VA had the proposed system been in effect in the last election. Not sure what the solution is. I just re-read the column and thought about it and realized the way the VA. GOP would have done it would have been inherently unfair.

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
9:17 am

Morality, “Jay – When the “graduates” of public schools learn to read, write and do simple math we won’t need any alternative schools – social promotion ruined public schools. Now they want to give them all something for nothing and just get them gradeated….. since we now have “educators” and very few real TEACHERS in the ATLANTA school system.”

Apparently you haven’t heard the problem with our schools is a lack of money. More money in liberal la la land solves every problem.

As long as it’s somebody else’s money.

Simple Truths

January 30th, 2013
9:17 am

Holy crap, this smells like a scam! A dollar-for-dollar tax credit where you can push money to a place that can directly benefit you. Forget the lack of accountability for a moment, the underlying math of the credit doesn’t seem to pass muster.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:17 am

Thomas H jr

” See my 9:05.”

I did. It’s a pretty pathetic attempt at diversion, even for you.

There are still a couple questions outstanding based upon your previous posts.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:17 am

what percentage of students from APS and DEKALB who start 1st grade can read and write by the time they are 21??

what???? can’t answer that?????? too many drop out or were cheated to graduation……….

shame shame shame dems

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:17 am

“Herein lies the problem you and GT go into this discussion with the bias that there must be a racial bias, I do not.”

alex, I did not say there must be a racial bias, I said you could not prove otherwise. “Just move on,” as you said, is exactly how the program is meant to work, its part of the deception.

Patrick Edmondson

January 30th, 2013
9:18 am

The ultimate aim is to truly educate only the children of the elite, then the others will be happy to be wage-slaves to endure whatever. First it is the funding, then they will institute the “master race theory” of why they deserve to be the only ones considered – its biblical they will claim; just like in 1930s Germany.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
9:19 am

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:07 am

Thomas H jr

“No..I was not speaking of public schools. I was countering Bookman’s claim that private schools have no accountability.Just because the State is not involved doesn’t mean that there is noaccountability.”

Let’s try this again.

Why are you okay with state oversight of publicly-funded schools run by the state but not with state oversight of publicly-funded schools run by a corporation?

or

Why are you for only parental oversight of publicly-funded schools run by corporations but not for publicly-funded schools run by the government?
—————————————————————————————————————–
.
We will have to disagree on what is a “public fund”.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:20 am

Look:

Several points. One, the tax credit is limited to $2,500 per family. Of course, Grandma and Grandpa could also donate $2,500, as could Aunt Steph, etc., with no net loss to them.

Two, under the law you can designate the school that will receive the scholarship, but it is illegal to designate the student. However, as the SEF report documents very well, schools are openly telling parents how to sidestep that requirement.

So to answer your question: No, legally, what you describe is not supposed to happen. But yes, in reality, it happens all the time.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:20 am

Simple Truths

January 30th, 2013
9:17 am
Holy crap, this smells like a scam! A dollar-for-dollar tax credit where you can push money to a place that can directly benefit you. Forget the lack of accountability for a moment, the underlying math of the credit doesn’t seem to pass muster.

========================================================================

disgusting isn’t it

why can’t GA be more like Obama………… give $$$ to green energy companies run by friends and campaign contributors to make products you can’t sell but we still get rich even thought the company goes bust…………..

whats up with ga………. wanting students to read and write………….

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:22 am

So to answer your question: No, legally, what you describe is not supposed to happen. But yes, in reality, it happens all the time.

====================================================================

jay
kinda like…………. no federal or state $$$$ will be used for abortions………… No, legally, what you describe is not supposed to happen. But yes, in reality, it happens all the time.

TaxPayer

January 30th, 2013
9:22 am

I would say that I am shocked, SHOCKED, I SAY, to hear that even Georgia’s Republicans are nothing but a bunch of scheming conniving crooks… But I’d be lying. And that would be so un-Christian of me.

TaxPayer

January 30th, 2013
9:23 am

But yes, in reality, it happens all the time.

Prove it, sam.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:24 am

Jay – I said there are a few real teachers still around but most now call themselves “educators”.. guess the word “teacher” is looked down upon now and the word “educator” makes them feel self important. It all started with “sanitation engineers” . Every day I see these “gradeates” that can speak proper English, can’t read and can’t give you change back from a dollar. Yet they have been in school for 12 years. Talk about letting our youth down and wasting tax dollars. There is more “deception” in the Atlanta school system than in the Russian mafia.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:25 am

Thomas H jr

” We will have to disagree on what is a “public fund”.”

Fine.

Now, would you oppose the state allowing parents to reduce their tax bill by up to $2500 by paying it to private schools for their kids to attend, which schools were authorized by the state and prohibited attendance by Christians or those who espoused heterosexual relationships?

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:26 am

I appreciate that Thulsa, and I believe that you are correct about the gerrymandering. That’s where the whole plan is vulnerable to constitutional challenge.

I should also note that Virginia Republicans have backed away from the proposal, as has the Republican governor of Michigan.

Simple Truths

January 30th, 2013
9:26 am

Uncle Samantha @9:20, focus on the topic. When “green” energy is the topic du jour, I will offer my thoughts on that feeding trough.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:26 am

I want a $2,500 tax credit so I can send a kid to the Chip Rogers School of Broadcasting.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:27 am

Jay _ I did not hear so much whining and gnashing of teeth from you when King Roy and the Dem royalty were in charge of the deception and scams like gerrymandering and taking of lobbyists gifts.. It’s all about the Repubs being in charge isn’t it Jay? In your opinion have the Repubs ever done anything right in the state of Georgia? Come on Jay throw them a bone.

St Simons - aboriginal

January 30th, 2013
9:28 am

far and away the most corrupt state in the union.

oh, this is gonna be a hard fall, Ga cons.
The wipeout is already coming in Flow-rida.
May take a little longer here.

especially when all you have to justify this pillage
and looting is ‘bu…bu…bu…Roy Barnes’

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
9:28 am

that’s 170 million that could go towards a new dome with a retractable roof!

TaxPayer

January 30th, 2013
9:28 am

Republicans don’t do math or science but they do a great interpretive dance of their version of Christianity.

Jackie

January 30th, 2013
9:29 am

Good reading for the debate on public v. private school academic achievement.

http://www.projectappleseed.org/public-private.html

TaxPayer

January 30th, 2013
9:29 am

I did not hear so much whining and gnashing of teeth from you when King Roy and the Dem royalty were in charge of the deception and scams like gerrymandering and taking of lobbyists gifts..

Ear wax buildup must be another serious problem afflicting Republicans.

Redneck

January 30th, 2013
9:30 am

Bookman you do have point in that we should have a grading system that tells us what the public is buying (the same for both public and private schools)If a school is failing to serve the students in its care I would like to know that. However, the rest of that is liberal HOR$3 $tuff. A gay kid can and will get a good education IF their parents work at it.

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
9:30 am

When the Georgia legislature passed a private school scholarship program in 2008, lawmakers promoted it as a way to give poor children the same education choices as the wealthy.

The program would be supported by donations to nonprofit scholarship groups, and Georgians who contributed would receive dollar-for-dollar tax credits, up to $2,500 a couple. The intent was that money otherwise due to the Georgia treasury — about $50 million a year — would be used instead to help needy students escape struggling public schools.

That was the idea, at least. But parents meeting at Gwinnett Christian Academy got a completely different story last year.

“A very small percentage of that money will be set aside for a needs-based scholarship fund,” Wyatt Bozeman, an administrator at the school near Atlanta, said during an informational session. “The rest of the money will be channeled to the family that raised it.”

A handout circulated at the meeting instructed families to donate, qualify for a tax credit and then apply for a scholarship for their own children, many of whom were already attending the school.

“If a student has friends, relatives or even corporations that pay Georgia income tax, all of those people can make a donation to that child’s school,” added an official with a scholarship group working with the school.

The exchange at Gwinnett Christian Academy, a recording of which was obtained by The New York Times, is just one example of how scholarship programs have been twisted to benefit private schools at the expense of the neediest children.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/education/scholarship-funds-meant-for-needy-benefit-private-schools.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:31 am

simple

I CAN’T FOCUS………….. I AM PRODUCT OF THE GEORGIA PUBLIC SCHOOLS SYSTEM WHEN THE DEMOCRATS RAN THE STATE.

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
9:32 am

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
9:32 am

Morality, 9:27,

But this is an opinion column, which we are reminded of so many times by Bookman’s sheep. That gives you certain license to tell half truths, skew the data to your point of view, ignore facts that may well tell a different story and all of the time, revel in the fact that you are a “journalist”. Wow. Where can I find a job like that?

Janney

January 30th, 2013
9:33 am

Thank you for posting this, Jay. Scary stuff how Georgia is allowing public funding to go to private schools that have no accountability to the public.Very interesting to read the comments and justifications of our conservative friends on this blog.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:34 am

morality, I know you won’t believe it, but the record is there if you care to look: I was very, very hard on Barnes, Tom Murphy and the Democrats on ethical and other issues when they were in power. The laws we have today that at least require that lobbyists report what they spend exist in large part because of a months-long campaign back in the ’90s led by the AJC editorial board.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
9:34 am

What is the percentage of tax payer scholarships going to Jewish or Muslim private schools?

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
9:34 am

Not sure if that YouTube video is still up and running, but it’s mentioned in the NYT article that I linked.

The idea, based on a technical interpretation of the word “enroll,” was promoted by State Representative David Casas, a Republican and co-sponsor of the scholarship legislation in Georgia. In meetings with parents, he had explained that the bill’s wording was intentional — using the word “enrolled” rather than “attending” — to enable the scholarships’ use by students already in private schools.

Parents questioned the idea. “Aren’t people going to say that’s a scam?” asked one father during a presentation by Mr. Casas that was posted on YouTube. “ ‘You’ve been going here for nine years. Now you’re enrolling in public school? You’re enrolled in two schools?’ ”

Mr. Casas, the president of a seminary, assured him it was not a scam. “Feel fine about it,” Mr. Casas said.

“Some people felt a little weird about that, felt it was dishonest that they would take their child, enroll them in a public school and not have them actually attend, but all of a sudden they actually qualified for a scholarship,” Mr. Casas said at another meeting, where he called the program “too good to be true.” A transcript of the comments was contained in the Southern Education Foundation report. Mr. Casas did not respond to inquiries seeking comment.

clem

January 30th, 2013
9:34 am

there should be means testing…or at least a sliding scale; rich folks just gaming the system. the state income tax rate is for all intent purposes a flat tax.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:35 am

INSANITY

all these crying liberals spend time/money/energy trying to prevent people with different views the ability to educate their children

if these liberals would spend their time/money/energy creating schools THAT DO EDUCATE children then it would be a moot point

but the key is they CAN’T………………… so they have to attack those who CAN

and you all know what WOODY ALLEN that racist/facist republican said about those WHO CAN’T

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:35 am

“I CAN’T FOCUS………….. I AM PRODUCT OF THE GEORGIA PUBLIC SCHOOLS SYSTEM WHEN THE DEMOCRATS RAN THE STATE.”

Republicans got off to a roaring start, Linda Schrenko the first Republican elected State Superintendent is still doing time in a Georgia prison for stealing money from a deaf school fund.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:36 am

X – Chip Rogers hasn’t done anything different than many of the Dems and Repubs throughout history. Get in politics, do favors, get your payoff. Obama and the Dems wrote the book. Jammy Codder has been in D.C. getting his payoff for 50 years. The system stinks but until we have TERM LIMITS for Congress and TERM LIMITS at all levels the scams, kickbacks and bribes will go on. You keep voting back in the do nothing hand in the public trough political hacks and you get what you pay for. Inept gub’mentand a $16,000,000,000,000 + FISCAL CLIFF Fed debt built up over decades of wasteful and corrupt abuse.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
9:38 am

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:25 am

Thomas H jr

” We will have to disagree on what is a “public fund”.”

Fine.

Now, would you oppose the state allowing parents to reduce their tax bill by up to $2500 by paying it to private schools for their kids to attend, which schools were authorized by the state and prohibited attendance by Christians or those who espoused heterosexual relationships?
—————————————————————————-
What is the difference in this deduction and a church charitble deduction?
There is no state oversight of churches.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:38 am

Brosephus

Thanks for the followup. When I clinked on the youtube link and it said ‘not available’ I figured it was that short vid entitled “A look into the minds of some bloggers”

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:40 am

“What is the difference in this deduction and a church charitble deduction?”

First of all the scholarship program is a tax credit, not a tax deduction. Big difference.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

January 30th, 2013
9:41 am

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am

I even writ my local rep about it

Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am

Jay, “schools are openly telling parents how to sidestep that requirement. ”

That’s the case with EVERY government program, Jay. Every last one. The only solution is for the government to get out of the “picking winners and losers” game and stop playing games with the tax structure to eliminate all the crap. You know that to be true, but you won’t support it. You just keep hoping the current system will work just because you want it too even though overwhelming evidence shows it’s not and your intuition tells you it never will.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am

Thomas

It’s really amazing. Jay writes a piece, you way in without any equivocation. But when what you wrote is adapted to challenge what you wrote all you do is start digging rabbit holes.

I’d be happy to discuss the difference in this deduction and a church charitable deduction AFTER you answer

“would you oppose the state allowing parents to reduce their tax bill by up to $2500 by paying it to private schools for their kids to attend, which schools were authorized by the state and prohibited attendance by Christians or those who espoused heterosexual relationships?”

A simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ is all that’s needed. You understand that, don’t you? (Actually, I think you full well understand the implications of a yes or no answer, which is why you’re doing everything possible to not answer).

Rafe Hollister

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am

Well yes, the program should be reformed to show more accountability. So, should many other government programs, but where is the Left, we Conservatives point out fraud in other programs, like Medicaid, Medicare, Unemployment, Green Energy, foreign aid, etc.

The response we get from the Left is always, well, it is so little money involved, only a billion or two, wasted in Green Energy, we have more important problems/bigger fish to fry, just look at how much we are spending on defense, this is insignificant.

So now, 177 million or whatever, generates a column on waste, fraud, and abuse? Hypocrisy seems to be prevalent everywhere.

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am

People who want their children in charter schools or
state sponsored scholarship to private schools are
not all wealthy enough to pay for private schools and
contribute to public school financing. Poverty should
not hinder education at any level since the State has
taxing power.

St Simons - aboriginal

January 30th, 2013
9:44 am

its ok in the long run, though.
When you have to sneak & connive your failed ideology into force
by fooling the people, you’re not really thinking long-term anyway.

The tides come in. The tides go out, mon. Word.
and these Ga Republicans smell like low tide, in August.

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
9:45 am

clem, 9:34,

The program already has a built in cap of total earnings of 85K/yr to participate. Most of those evil Republicans make way more than that.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:47 am

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am
People who want their children in charter schools or
state sponsored scholarship to private schools are
not all wealthy enough to pay for private schools and
contribute to public school financing. Poverty should
not hinder education at any level since the State has
taxing power.

==============================================================

TAKE YOUR LOGIC, COMMON SENSE AND COMPASSION SOMEPLACE ELSE

liberals don’t want to hear it

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:47 am

kayaker, you impugn my credibility and professionalism by claiming, among other things, that “At present there only 29 private schools in GA that qualify for money from this program….. they are listed in the bill.”

How interesting, then, that GOAL — just one of the seven organizations set up to collect and distribute funds through this program, and by far the most transparent — lists 121 schools that it alone helps to finance scholarships.

Source: http://www.goalscholarship.org/participating_schools/

In other words, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
9:48 am

Suck it up Jay. Georgia is a bright red state and what we want to do at the state is something you libs must deal with. We deal with far left policies on the national level such as the monstrosity of obamacare…

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
9:48 am

Peadawg — “I keep saying it over and over…

IF YOU WANT YOUR KID TO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL THEN PAY FOR IT YOURSELF”

Peadawg and I don’t agree on much, but we agree a whole hell of a lot on this point.

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
9:48 am

stands
Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?
………………………………………………..
better than to Summer’s Eve…

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:48 am

“That’s the case with EVERY government program, Jay.”

So rb, you are ok with Christian schools playing the same game of con and deception?

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:49 am

Jay – If you say it’s so aren’t we supposed to believe it? I am still waiting for you to tell us ONE thing the Repubs running the state have done right. So far ever since the Repubs came in to power you have not given them credit for one single thing they have done that you agree with as far as I can remember. I am not a Repub or a Dem – I am a FISCAL conservative. A yearly Balanced Budget by law is what has kept the state of Georgia solvent since the voters keep hiring spineless politicians to throw away their tax dollars. We need a BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT to the Constitution for the FISCAL survival of the USA since all we have up there are PARTY LOYALISTS on both sides. Then maybe they will spend more time working than getting reelected.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
9:50 am

all you MOOCHERS who use your mortgage interest deduction should be ashamed

there are poor and struggling familes who rent and could use THAT MONEY to send their kid to a CHARTER or PRIVATE school

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
9:51 am

Paul

January 30th, 2013
9:42 am

Thomas

It’s really amazing. Jay writes a piece, you way in without any equivocation. But when what you wrote is adapted to challenge what you wrote all you do is start digging rabbit holes.

I’d be happy to discuss the difference in this deduction and a church charitable deduction AFTER you answer

“would you oppose the state allowing parents to reduce their tax bill by up to $2500 by paying it to private schools for their kids to attend, which schools were authorized by the state and prohibited attendance by Christians or those who espoused heterosexual relationships?”
——————————————————————————–
.
You have me…………but I am big enough to admit it.
Are you big enough to admit that tax money DOES pay for abortions?
.
It’s the same concept.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:51 am

“Suck it up Jay. Georgia is a bright red state and what we want to do at the state is something you libs must deal with.”

You too Christian Consevative, you’re ok with Christian schools cheating and deceiving?

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
9:52 am

DannyX, “So rb, you are ok with Christian schools playing the same game of con and deception?”

You mean like the AJC paying you to inflate their web site hits so Kroger will buy ad space from them thinking they’re reaching the general public? No, DannyX, I don’t think lying, cheating, and deception are right no matter who is doing it.

Lucas of Skywalker Ministries

January 30th, 2013
9:53 am

I am now authorized to receive millions of your tax dollars
for my new K-12 Jedi school.

Brosephus™

January 30th, 2013
9:53 am

Paul

No problem. Can’t view YouTube on this PC, so I wasn’t sure if it was still up or not. I figured that it had likely been yanked.

—————————

Jay: In other words, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Well, he has an image to uphold, you know…

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
9:53 am

Bookman, 9:34,

Look closely at my post that addressed that question. I stated that GA state Bill 1133, in 2008 when the bill was passed. listed 29 participating schools. They are listed in the bill. I followed that statement with, “By now there may be more”. What difference does it make how many schools participate? With a household income cap of 85K as a condition of participating in the program, this considerably cuts out many of not most of those evil rich Republicans that are “scamming the system”. Tell the whole damned story for a change.

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
9:54 am

Jay,

I can only surmise that the VA. GOP read your column and ya scared em away. Who knew the confines of our friendly little blog had such a reach.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:54 am

“No, DannyX, I don’t think lying, cheating, and deception are right no matter who is doing it.”

So why are you deflecting and not speaking out against the Christian corruption?

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
9:55 am

The program already has a built in cap of total earnings of 85K/yr to participate. Most of those evil Republicans make way more than that.

Is that true?..I was gonna google the program but have no idea what it’s called

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
9:56 am

“Tell the whole damned story for a change.”

With all the secrecy written into the law “the whole damned story” can’t be told.

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
9:56 am

The reason for enrolling a child in public school to qualify for the program
seems to be so the public school can get funding on the student even
though the school is not providing the education which stops the
complaining from public educators.

alex

January 30th, 2013
9:56 am

If tax money is going to schools without accountability,that is wrong. Given Jay’s inherint bias against private schools and many things non-govermental (don’t deny it), I suspect there is more to the story. I know many of you believe it is some EVIL con conspiracy…..perhaps it s an oversight. > jay why do we need 7 organizations to review these issues, could each have their own agenda? Hmmm. Let’s all be cynical. Personally, I fork up the private school education for my kids and drive a jalopy– I would not “dream” of sending my kids to the local public school, given I have the means to do otherwise..Jay, you have been successful with your children, congrats…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
9:56 am

“Ga.’s back-door voucher program riddled with deception”

Obama’s back-door health insurance program riddled with deception.

Oh well ……………..

Simple Truths

January 30th, 2013
9:57 am

Off topic, but the next time gerrymandering comes up, I have a fix for it (dramatic foreshadowing).

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
9:57 am

Some on here are against private schools because they are “Christian”……. so start a school for atheists, Muslims, Hindus whatever…….. the objective will still be to get an education. Teachers today are making three times what they were payed 30 years ago. They were underpaid at one time but now some of them are overpaid based on their results. Like I said – get results at the public schools and there won’t be a problem. Time to get the politics and social engineering out of public schools. We don’t need Planned Parenthood brain washing our children.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
9:57 am

Morality, I’ve given the Georgia GOP credit here several times for not gerrymandering as badly as the Democrats did. I lauded Deal for backing the T-SPLOST vote, although the process itself was a poorly designed effort to avoid political accountability. I think the ethics proposal announced yesterday by Speaker Ralston is an important step forward, although I do have serious concerns with certain aspects of it. And in general, thanks in part to Ralston and Deal, Georgia Republicans have avoided at least some of the wack-doodle legislation popping up in other Deep Red states.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
9:59 am

All this free funding is how all these “christian” schools have expanded so quickly. Take a look at Killian Hill and Greater Atlanta, there is no way they could have all those new buildings without a deal with the devil. The devil in this scenario are all the “christians” that think this scam is just dandy.

mbtc

January 30th, 2013
9:59 am

Morality? :” Obama quit wasting time on your pet projects and FINALLY do something about the ever growing cancer known as the Fed debt.”

Conservative Heritage Foundation scholar, John Makin, comes out against austerity. Read about it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/john-makin_n_2573183.html

Seriously Folks

January 30th, 2013
9:59 am

Bro

Funny how all we hear is crickets after you posted that link…complete with video evidence…and quotes….

Could you imagine if there was video of Obama in the Oval Office saying, “Oh trust me, it will all be fine if the public THINKS Benghazi was all about a video”…Can you say, “DEFCON 3″ meltdown on here??

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
9:59 am

So now, 177 million or whatever

yes. in one (1) state, a state that constantly poor-mouths itself whenever it comes time to build anything that the public at large might actually use.

Contrast that to the Tardcon 5 status afforded Solyndra, which was a multiyear Federal project whose costs came to only about three times this amount. Which, by the accounts I read, was a reasonable risk for the Feds to have taken.

Solyndra practically became a household word in 2012 for all the whining. That said:

generates a column on waste, fraud, and abuse?

You really want to attack Jay on *his* lack of proportionality? Please proceed.

Steve-USA (I don't have all the answer's, I don't even know all the questions)

January 30th, 2013
10:00 am

Jay – “Two, under the law you can designate the school that will receive the scholarship, but it is illegal to designate the student. However, as the SEF report documents very well, schools are openly telling parents how to sidestep that requirement.”

I am afraid that I don’t follow that. What does that accomplish exactly for the student? Grade kickback?

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:00 am

The bigger big gub’ment gets the more inept it gets. It has gotten to big for it britches. Time to downsize the Fed gub’ment and return the state’s responsibilities to the states – one size does not fit all.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:00 am

We don’t need Planned Parenthood brain washing our children

Thats right. You are doing a good job of that on your own.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:01 am

BTW there is a reason why churches have Sunday school for kids.

Thats where the real brain washing starts.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
10:01 am

Morality seems to be stuck on abortion.

Liberal Nightmare

January 30th, 2013
10:02 am

“Tell the whole story Bookman. It gives you more credibility.”

Cookman only has credibility among the cooks who spend their day hating “jaysus” and “faux news”. The lib way is to pick and choose an argument and selectively respond to analytic analysis which refutes the argument. Then they say, “look how smart I am compared to those evil conservatives”.

My kids happen to attend private school (because grandparents saved for it) and I know several (18 to be exact) very deserving kids who are there because of this program. Of these, 4 are at the top of their respective classes. No, they are not caucasian males and I am willing to bet their parents didn’t vote for Mitt. Try researching a subject fully Cookman before writing your liberal drivel.

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:03 am

“that’s 170 million that could go towards a new dome with a retractable roof!”

EC,

The latest I’ve heard is that there is a not so thinly veiled threat that the franchise could move to LA. As much as I greatly respect the accomplishments and charitable work of Mr. Blank this is starting to feel like the typical billionaire blackmail that these owners use when they want a new stadium. And that’s bullsheet.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:04 am

Georgia is near the bottom in education ( As are most Red states oddly enough )

Thats what you get when the hillbillies are in charge.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:04 am

the cat – All this free funding is how all these “christian” schools have expanded so quickly. Take a look at Killian Hill and Greater Atlanta, there is no way they could have all those new buildings without a deal with the devil. The devil in this scenario are all the “christians” that think this scam is just dandy.

never pass up an opportunity to bash a Christian…….complain all you want nobody is doing anything illegal…don’t hate the player, hate the game…be an agent of change if you are passionate about changing it

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:05 am

SURVEY

what percentage of our Georgia State and County jail systems have inmates from our APS, DEKALB and other DEMOCRAT run schools systems?

what percentage of our Georgia State and County jail systems have inmates from private and charter schools like GREATER ATLANTA CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS?

or if you don’t prefer

substitute for inmates the number of graduates living below the poverty line!!!!!!!!!!!

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:05 am

mbtc – I am not talking about austerity – how about some common sense and some action on actually having a workable plan to reduce the deficit? Four years of Obama and NO results. When it comes to the Fed debt crisis we have a DO NOTHING Congress and a DO NOTHING Prez. Priorities have to be assigned and I would put the Fed Deb Crisis as PRIORITY #1.

Liberal Nightmare

January 30th, 2013
10:05 am

“Thats where the real brain washing starts.”

Aww poor thing, did you get picked on by the evil Christians as a kid?

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:06 am

My kids happen to attend private school (because grandparents saved for it)

ha ha ha.

Oh, thank you for sharing that useful bit of data, “Liberal Nightmare.”

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:06 am

Thats (sic) what you get when the hillbillies are in charge.

bigot much?

the cat

January 30th, 2013
10:06 am

erwins’s cat-you are damned straight I blame the “christians”. they are the ones scamming us taxpayers. Own it.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:06 am

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:04 am
Georgia is near the bottom in education ( As are most Red states oddly enough )

Thats what you get when the hillbillies are in charge.

=============================================================

CAN’T BLAME REPUBLICANS………… THEY INHERITED THE MESS FROM ALL THOSE DEMOCRATS THAT RAN THE SOUTH FOR DECADES!!!!!!!!!!

JUST LIKE OBAMA INHERITED THE MESS

:)

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
10:06 am

DannyX, “So why are you deflecting and not speaking out against the Christian corruption?”

Oh Christian school I know nothing about and have no contact with. If the half of the story as told by Jay Bookman is true and you are in fact violating a law with your enrollment practices, you should be ashamed and should stop immediatly.

Are you happy, now DannyX???

Now it’s your turn to tell me if you think its ok for you to inflate the AJC’s web site hits from the AJC offices and feed the hit data to prospective advertisers as valid data. Whatcha got?

Kids from Blue States

January 30th, 2013
10:07 am

As long as you guys teach good Christian-based math and science I’m
happy. Of course that maybe because my family and friends have had
the good sense to settle above the Bible belt and our competition fer
jerbs down there will be doorknob lickers.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
10:08 am

Thomas Heyward Jr

“Are you big enough to admit that tax money DOES pay for abortions?”

Of course, as I never doubted they did. Last I looked at it, federal funds per Hyde Amendment prohibited use of tax dollars for abortions thru Medicaid, military, gov’t employeess, etc. but did (subsequently, I believe) permit for rape, incest or when mother’s life in danger.

So yes, tax dollars have been used for some time. And Hyde, author of the bill, was quite opposed to abortion.

But I’ve a doctor appointment in 23 minutes so I must run.

Thanks for the discussion.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
10:08 am

I confess, I also blog here to run up the hits for Bookman. So sue me.
hahhahahahahhahahahhahaha

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
10:10 am

Hell, lets take part of that 177M and built another railroad to the MLK memorial. It’s a cinch that the really civic minded King children wouldn’t mind spending all of the GA tax money that they can get their hands on.

Aquagirl

January 30th, 2013
10:11 am

Now it’s your turn to tell me if you think its ok for you to inflate the AJC’s web site hits from the AJC offices

Wait….you think the AJC is paying people to post on their own website so advertisers will pay more for ad space?

mbtc

January 30th, 2013
10:11 am

@Morality? What part of “reducing the deficit ” wouldn’t involve “austerity” during a time of extreme recession?

the cat

January 30th, 2013
10:11 am

Come on regular bloggers, time to fess up. We are all blogging here to run up the hits for Bookman. Feel better now RB?

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:11 am

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 30th, 2013
10:01 am

“BTW there is a reason why churches have Sunday school for kids.

Thats where the real brain washing starts.”

They do love they Christian bashing they do.

Liberal Nightmare

January 30th, 2013
10:12 am

“Georgia is near the bottom in education ( As are most Red states oddly enough )”

Hmmm, more hen picking of information. Why don’t you break down Georgia by voting district and then publish which areas have the lowest test scores and rates of graduation? Now lie and tell everyone those low scores and high dropout rates came from republican strongholds. Here I will get you started – Clayton County.

Paul

January 30th, 2013
10:12 am

Oh, and Thomas H jr

I think it’s okay to hold contradictory positions. It’s just part of life. Everything isn’t black and white. The key, I think, is to honestly acknowledge them.

Out -

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:12 am

The latest I’ve heard is that there is a not so thinly veiled threat that the franchise could move to LA. As much as I greatly respect the accomplishments and charitable work of Mr. Blank this is starting to feel like the typical billionaire blackmail that these owners use when they want a new stadium. And that’s bullsheet.

That was the word according to Kasim Reed. AB and the falcons haven’t commented on it one way or the other and haven’t threatened to leave and I’m sure it’s true that LA is showing interest. The bigger threat is AB will finance and build it all on his own in the suburbs. That is Reed’s and the Atlanta’s real real threat and they know it.

DownInAlbany

January 30th, 2013
10:14 am

I’m not a fan of GOAL and have never participated. My kid goes to the local private school after 7 years in the failing public school (take a look at Dougherty Co system) and I pay full tuition. Deerfield-Windsor handles the money appropriately. They have used it to “rescue” students from the disasterous DOCO system. You cannot designate funds to specific students.

Is there abuse? Absolutely. But, there are success stories regarding GOAL, also.

And just for the record, tuition to DWS is less than what is spent per student in DOCO.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
10:14 am

Well some nice antedotal evidence unsupported claims about what is going on from some posters. Unfortunately the state has prohibited anyone from verifying the effectiveness of the program. Many of the abuses have been documented in the report. If this program can reflect it’s “greatness” in the light of day, why does Georgia and the GOP not celebrate it and call attention to its success with actual facts and reports? I know many conned “knows what they knows” but really at some point you surely must come to realize your own buffoonery…..

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:14 am

“Of course that maybe because my family and friends have had
the good sense to settle above the Bible belt and our competition fer
jerbs down there will be doorknob lickers.”

Nothing like a dash of bigotry to flavor up the Christian bashing.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:15 am

Cheezy – Brain dead zombies for Obama don’t have a brain because it’s dead. Obama thinks for you… as he KNOWS the people that elected him need him to think for them. We do not need paid political lobbyists like Planned Parenthood in our schools. It’s the PARENTS job to raise their children and give them moral values and we don’t need the immoral Planned Parenthood in our schools. The millions paid to Planned Parenthood by our Fed gub’ment are kickbacks and payoffs for their support of the Dem Party. We need to rid our gub’ment of this corruption. TERM LIMITS for Congress.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:17 am

the cat – erwins’s cat-you are damned straight I blame the “christians”. they are the ones scamming us taxpayers. Own it.

how so…is it allowed and legal?…just because money is going to something that you don’t approve of doesn’t make it a scam…own it Christian hater

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:17 am

CAN’T BLAME REPUBLICANS………… THEY INHERITED THE MESS FROM ALL THOSE DEMOCRATS THAT RAN THE SOUTH FOR DECADES!!!!!!!!!!

ALL OF THOSE DEMOCRATS JUST CHANGED PARTIES AND BECAME REPUBLICANS

YOUR ARGUMENT DOESN’T HOLD WATER.

Liberal Nightmare

January 30th, 2013
10:18 am

“ha ha ha.

Oh, thank you for sharing that useful bit of data, “Liberal Nightmare.” ”

…and thanks to you for proving my point about selective dissection of a statement which serves to refute an argument with a comeback that has no real meaning. Tool.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
10:18 am

Planned Parenthood in schools? Where???What the hell are you talking about? Condoms in schools tend to prevent unwanted pregnancies, hence prevent abortions. YOU are BLINDED by your STUPIDNESS.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
10:18 am

Erwin’s cat:

Liberals are always worrying about what Chritians schools are doing but seem to care nothing about what Muslim schools (that receive federal, state and sometimes local aid) are teaching kids about Jihad !

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:19 am

EC,

I didn’t even think about AB possibly moving the Falcons to the burbs if the city doesn’t budge on financing. I guess we could have the North Fulton Falcons. Or Gwinnett Falcons.

The good news is that if the Falcons ever leave you guys are all welcome to watch Crimson Tide football.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
10:20 am

Erwin’s cat-so you are okay with all the scamming going on. Casas telling parents how to work the system?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:20 am

REED has to spend tax money to build a stadium in CITY OF ATLANTA so that the billionaire won’t leave…………….

MONEY HAS TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM EDUCATION SO THAT HE CAN BUILD A STADIUM TO EMPLOY MINIMUM WAGE JOBS FOR GRADUATES FROM HIS EDUCATION SYSTEM

THE CIRCLE OF LIFE

MANGLER

January 30th, 2013
10:21 am

It’s crap like this that makes me glad I don’t currently have kids in a GA school, or a southern school in general.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:21 am

Here’s the law, kayaker. Show me where it says anything about an income limit:

http://archives.gadoe.org/DMGetDocument.aspx/HB%20325.pdf?p=6CC6799F8C1371F6CDE37353D1BA0FAEDA39D4C104B9CC5D25EE1A7D4357505F&Type=D

Here’s the explanation of the program provided by the state Department of Revenue. Show me where it says anything about an income limit:

https://etax.dor.ga.gov/inctax/taxcredits/HB1133_Student_Scholarship_Tax_Credit_Program.pdf

Here’s an explanation of the program provided by GOAL. Show me where it says anything about an income limit:

http://www.goalscholarship.org/about_goal/page/frequently-asked-questions

Here’s the original law, as passed in 2008. Show me where it says anything about either an income limit OR this alleged list of just 29 eligible schools.:

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20072008/86111.pdf

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:22 am

They do love they Christian bashing they do.

Hey if the shoe fits.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:23 am

Liberals are always worrying about what Chritians schools are doing but seem to care nothing about what Muslim schools

Oh you just know he’s dying to go THERE ..

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:23 am

Scout,

Christian schools = bad
Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel= good.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:24 am

Brain dead zombies for Obama don’t have a brain because it’s dead. Obama thinks for you… as he KNOWS the people that elected him need him to think for them.

Lovely.

A programming note: I got red-carded and a two day time-out from Jay’s, for simply referring to a fellow poster as “Richard.” (Ok, I used the shortened form, but still.)

Cosby

January 30th, 2013
10:25 am

Ahh..That damn State constitution…amazing you use the constitution to suit your purpous but like to ignore any constitution when it does not suit you…but wait, perhaps a full voucher system needs to be in place,,,make Schools competitive and perform or loose their customer – the Student…keep in mind these are Government schools dictated to by the Government that has reduced them to baby sitting services and to the benefit of the Union…..perhaps this back door approach is a little out of wack, but it does provide competition to the Government run babysitting so called schools and that is worth every penny of it!!

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:25 am

Christian schools = bad
Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel= good.

Straw men=double plus good

Liberal Nightmare

January 30th, 2013
10:25 am

I don’t know this Erwin guy, but I sure do like his cat.

mbtc

January 30th, 2013
10:26 am

1400 gun deaths since Newtown.

mike

January 30th, 2013
10:26 am

Actually the HOPE program has been a scam since the first change made deleting the income limits on the program. The politicos of Georgia have finally accomplished their plan of making sure the less fortunate pay for the education of those who can afford their childs education. And now they are concentrating on spending tax money on private schools.

Interview Tips for Free market Jaysus Skool graduates

January 30th, 2013
10:26 am

If you complete 12 years with this bogus type of schooling you are
issued a “Walks On Water” certificate. If you continue to attend
the “Kollege”, after four years, you reach “Ascension” status.
(Something you should always mention in job interviews.)

“Would you like salvation with that? Drive forward” is frowned upon,
though, at the jobs you will eventually end up with after 16 years of
going to Voodoo Academies.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
10:26 am

Christian schools = bad
Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel= good.

Dang you beat me to it decibels.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:27 am

Steve, it works like this.

State law says that donors can designate which school receives the scholarship money, but not which student. In other words, you can donate $2,500 to your kid’s private school, but you can’t designate it to be used for your kid. That would be illegal.

The schools tell parents, no problem. Just bring in your receipt proving that you donated $2,500 to the program and designated our school as the recipient. Then we’ll just deduct that $2,500 from your tuition payment.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:28 am

MONEY HAS TO BE TAKEN AWAY FROM EDUCATION SO THAT HE CAN BUILD A STADIUM

No it hasn’t, the money comes from a hotel tax and is required by law to be used for the Dome and GWCC…It hasn’t “taken” money away from anything except tourist and biz travelers

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:28 am

mbtc – Don’t tell anyone that we are in a recession please as the brain dead zombies for Obama have been brainwashed in to thinking we are not in a recession but in a “weak recovery”. Austerity means “extreme”. How about just freezing gub’ment spending across the board for starters instead of increasing spending every minute Congress is in session? I would start with taking away the power of Congress to give themselves pay raises and reduce their salary 10 % every year until they get a back bone to do something about this debt.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:29 am

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:30 am

cat – Erwin’s cat-so you are okay with all the scamming going on. Casas telling parents how to work the system?

so long as it’s legal

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
10:30 am

DannyX

You too Christian Consevative, you’re ok with Christian schools cheating and deceiving?

I’m still waiting on that proof there skippy….

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:31 am

selective dissection of a statement which serves to refute an argument

Refute, my derriere. You’re doing ye olde “my unsubstantiated anecdote = useful data” nonsense.

The only useful data in that post is what you revealed about who’s actually footing your stake in your little hacienda at Galt’s Gulch.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:31 am

“Christian schools = bad
Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel= good”

It’s all in the assumption that there is a deterministic relationship between the “Muslim” and the “hate, jihad, religious intolerance”.

That’s racism.

Former Reagan Republican

January 30th, 2013
10:31 am

And my friends wonder why I joined the Libertarian Party.

Steve-USA (I don't have all the answer's, I don't even know all the questions)

January 30th, 2013
10:31 am

Jay@10:27

Thanks. I understand it now.

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:33 am

Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel= good.

Straw men=double plus good

And if you believe that then you probably believe in a liberal fantasyland where in the Muslim world women are treated equally to men, madrassahs don’t teach jihad, and religious tolerance is such that Saudi Arabia, Iran, and other Muslim countries openly allow Christian churches to exist.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
10:33 am

Jay, don’t forget…. give the grandparents $2500 and they can donate that money to the program and the school will deduct that too. The $2500 is a gift. Or maybe let’s call it an office cleaning fee. Or maybe you just work out a value to get that back. Or just help out the grandparents save on their taxes while you save on tuition.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:33 am

i“I’m still waiting on that proof there skippy….”

The proof — and it is extensive and well-documented — is available at the SEF link above. All you need to do is dare to look at it.

Common Sense

January 30th, 2013
10:33 am

Common sense would tell you that if your child is attending a failing public school you, as a parent would do everything in your power to change the situation. Common sense also would tell you that reading through this blog the liberals on here want you to simply deal with it and have your child suffer through with a lackluster education…..

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:34 am

Decibels – Heh don’t bring me in to your private matters with Jay. Take responsibility for your actions. Unless you are a brain dead zombie for Obama you should not be offended. Is there any one here that is willing to admit that Obama thinks for them? Silence – so I guess zombies don’t get offended so much ’cause they are dead.

janet

January 30th, 2013
10:34 am

I once attended a fund raiser for a private school for children with disabilities. The Principal of the school reminded parents and friends that they would get this big tax break if they donated to the school. When I heard this I thought “this can’t be true?”. I guess it is and so it goes in good ole Georgia. I wonder if this would be more rigorously examined if they found out that Islamic schools were established and taking advantage of this?

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:34 am

“Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel”

Have you been paying attention to the kinds of things afoot here in the good ol US of A under your new Tea Party ascendancy?

Ought to be paying closer attention, Thulsa Doom.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
10:35 am

Welcome to the Occupation:

“It’s all in the assumption that there is a deterministic relationship between the “Muslim” and the “hate, jihad, religious intolerance”.

That’s racism.”

Racism is about genetics ……….. Violent Jihad is about belief !

Keep your head in the sand !

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
10:36 am

Outside the publicly financed schools, at this time, religion can
be taught. I doubt this will continue sine tax money is now involved.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
10:36 am

Jay:

Why would I look at something that’s on the level of MessNBC. Simply because you think the way you do Jay don’t make it true. The laws passed here in Georgia are available for all… Not just Republicans as you and your ilk believe…

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
10:39 am

Something does smell ripe here.
The more decent thing to do would be to allow a deduction on your tax bill if your children attend a private school.
.
But our state congress still has too many residual democrat lawyer/legislators to enact something that simple.
.
And as far as state oversight on these private schools that receive “public funds”?
Our children do not need to learn any ridiculous triple minority literature (Faulkner and Twain is fine) and our grade schoolers certainly do not need to learn about condoms and anal sex like they do up north.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:39 am

“I look at something that’s on the level of MessNBC.

Ah yes. Let’s review, shall we?

“You have no proof!”

“Here’s the proof, plain as day.”

“I refuse to look at the proof!”

alex

January 30th, 2013
10:39 am

I suspect that the “southern education foundation” is angry because the money is taken away from public schools where maost of the blacks in Atl get their education,Their mission is such to support the less fortunate in atlanta, go to their web site. Now , what bothers me if this legislator (name,Jay?) is right and the moneys can be directed to a specific student that could be used for nefarious projects.i , however do not, take the SEF position uncritically, reading more suggests this organization has a strong disllike of this program, where are the other voices—-TWO sides to every story, Jay

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:39 am

And remember, in Thulsa land, apparently any Muslim school — what was his phrase? teaches “hate, jihad, religious intolerance, subjugation of women to little more than chattel”.

But if you josh about “jerbs”, you’re a “bigot.”

.

.

(By the way, Thulsa–still waiting for that link to my supposedly “racist” post about Asians. It seemed terribly important to you to bring that up four or five times last week, and yet you’re surprisingly quiet about it, now. Gonna admit you mighta screwed up?)

/As The World Turns

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:39 am

MANGLER – We are better off because you don’t have children in our “southern” schools. THANKS. You can go to mapquest.com and you will find a lot of places up north you can move to if you don’t like the South. Will be glad to assist you any time. Again THANKS.

Look before I leap...

January 30th, 2013
10:39 am

“Brain dead zombies for Obama don’t have a brain because it’s dead. Obama thinks for you”

When the GOP can come up with someone who does not hold half of the country’s citizens in complete disdain because he thinks they are a bunch of moochers, when the GOP can present someone who wasn’t run out of DC on a rail, when the GOP finds someone who doesn’t have to remind me of his supposed Christian faith every 10 minutes, when they firmly eschew dilettantes and give me a true fiscal conservative who truly wants a smaller more efficient government, then I’ll gladly consider voting for them.

Got anybody like that in stable? If so, what the heck is the GOP waiting for?

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:40 am

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:40 am

you probably believe in a liberal fantasyland

You’re just making stuff up now. I choose to live in the reality-based world, sorry.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:41 am

janet – I wonder if this would be more rigorously examined if they found out that Islamic schools were established and taking advantage of this?

i don’t believe there is anything that keeps Islamic schools from taking advantage of the same program

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:41 am

all those private school and christian school graduates become atlanta falcons season ticket holders and drive down to atlanta from the BURBS where they educate their children so they can spend money to help the APS and DEKALB school graduates with their minimum wage jobs

that system is messed up

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:41 am

“Have you been paying attention to the kinds of things afoot here in the good ol US of A under your new Tea Party ascendancy?”

You mean those middle aged folks in lawn chairs who pay their permit fees and clean up their trash when they leave? Quite a scary bunch huh?

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:42 am

The proof that CC refuses to see consists of statements published by the schools themselves, on their websites and elsewhere, explaining step by step to parents how to violate the law. There’s really no question about it.

GT

January 30th, 2013
10:42 am

Sorry Danny X got carried away with business.

This state needs a uniform answer, not a group cloistered in a corner looking out just for their interest taking resources from the whole. One of the reasons we live in a cave around here is special interest come before the welfare of the state. You cannot run a state or federal government like that. The federal government is protected by the constitution not so much the state. The Christian Right just think they are helping the situation in truth they are destroying our community and with it our future.

What this state needs is organic growth not growth we have pimped from some other state or nation. Our problem is we don’t believe anything progressive works and the cover wagons aren’t selling well this year. We need more creative leadership which will make more creative citizens who will grow small businesses into employers who pay taxes. Stop saying no to everything, and get out of the doorway of school houses.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
10:42 am

Jay when are you going to tell us how great the obama economy is doing??? You haven’t mentioned it lately…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100419252

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:43 am

At Providence Christian Academy near Lilburn, for example, students can be expelled or barred for “promoting, supporting, or condoning … homosexual activity or bisexual activity,”
===================================================================

AND AT APS AND DEKALB SCHOOLS……………. STUDENTS CAN BE GRADUATED EVEN THOUGH THEY CANT READ WRITE OR DO ARITHMETIC

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
10:44 am

stands,

And in the reality based world Muslims have little to no tolerance of other religions in many Muslim countries, hate and jihad is taught at numerous madrassahs in Pakistan and elsewhere, and women are little more than chattel. Do you deny any of this?

TBS

January 30th, 2013
10:45 am

“Jay when are you going to tell us how great the obama economy is doing??? You haven’t mentioned it lately…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100419252

In the words of another blogger, you have just witnessed “deflecterbation”….

You need to stop doing that in public

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:45 am

As obvious deflections go, CC, that one’s right up there.

Again, you asked for proof. You have been provided that proof. You refuse to even look at said proof, despite having requested it.

To which you retort with … OBAMA!!!!!

By the way, anybody heard from kayaker recently?

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:45 am

Jay – explaining step by step to parents how to violate the law

is it? seriously question..I understand your displeasure with gaming the system but is it actually illegal? what is the offense?

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:46 am

What to do? What to do? Keep feeding tax dollars to a failed public school system or CONSIDER doing something different. INSANITY – feeding tax dollars to a failed system time after time, making no changes, and expecting different results. We need LEADERS not PARTY LOYALISTS running our schools. We need people with POSITIVE ideas of how to improve the system instead of PARTY LOYALISTS wanting to keep control.

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
10:46 am

This program could be shortened by the establishment of homosexuality
oriented private schools.

TBS

January 30th, 2013
10:47 am

Thulsa @ 10:44

True statement without a doubt. However Scout mentioned Muslim schools in the US getting fed, state and local funds that teach jihad and whatever else he mentioned.

I can’t say it for a fact it doesn’t occur or never has occurred, but I did find it strange that he didn’t list any of these schools with accompanying information to back up his assertion.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
10:47 am

Jay:

The report is from a far left organization Jay. No one would even remotely believe the crap they are trying to push. This will not be taken seriously and probably has already met the shredder… Why should tax payers be forced to send their kids to failing public schools when they could have a choice? That’s the question that you libs can’t seem to answer.

http://www.southerneducation.org/Home.aspx

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:47 am

Erwin, the law says explicitly that you cannot designate the student to whom the scholarship goes.

The schools tell the parents that you CAN designate the student to whom the scholarship goes, and here’s how you do it.

Again, look at the evidence cited above. It’s blatant.

TBS

January 30th, 2013
10:48 am

Appears kayaker put to good use the paddling skills he has learned from years of kayaking or maybe he is on a “fact finding” mission to refute the information provided.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:49 am

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

“Racism is about genetics ……….. Violent Jihad is about belief !”

Yeah, but funny thing about that thing “jihad”. Only browns ever seem to wage it. How convenient.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:50 am

money is taken away from public schools where maost of the blacks in Atl get their education

Actually, “maost” of the nation gets their education from public schools.

About 90% of all the nation’s K-12ers.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:51 am

As obvious deflections go, CC, that one’s right up there.

=))

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:52 am

Jay

January 30th, 2013
10:47 am
Erwin, the law says explicitly that you cannot designate the student to whom the scholarship goes.

The schools tell the parents that you CAN designate the student to whom the scholarship goes, and here’s how you do it.

Again, look at the evidence cited above. It’s blatant.

======================================================================

AND WHILE JAY FOCUSES ON THAT
POOR AND MINORITY KIDS ARE ROBBED OF A FUTURE STUCK IN UNDERPERFORMING SCHOOLS BECAUSE LIBERALS ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH WHAT CONSERVATIVES ARE TEACHING THEIR KIDS

SHAME
BLAME
THE SAME

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
10:54 am

Up in Jersey………State oversight of Grade School public schools gets you this.
72 young minds singing this——————–
.
Mm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said that all must lend a hand
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said we must be fair today
Equal work means equal pay
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said that we must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

Yes!
Mmm, mmm, mm
Barack Hussein Obama

.
.
O my Lord.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
10:54 am

Welcome to the Occupation:

“As obvious non-sense go, Jay, that one’s right up there. ”

=))

No one really cares about this.. Only the far left seems to be up in arms and they are a small percentage of our wonderful bright red state///

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
10:54 am

but funny thing about that thing “jihad”.

And here I thought the funny thing was how words can sound extra-sinister, online, if you use the Arabic instead of English. Imagine if our usual suspects had to slime Muslims by saying “School” instead of [duh dum DUMMM!!!] “madrassa.” or “Struggle” instead of [duh dum DUMMM!!!] “jihad.” Or, “God” instead of… well, you get the idea.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
10:55 am

Why not just “gradeate” everyone regardless of their level of education so they will all get a nice diploma and their parents will be so proud of them and their self esteem will be like a “10″ ? My hand is raised ’cause I have a question to ask of the “educators”….. please please please I have a question. After we “gradeate” with our nice diploma can we go to college where you will give me another nice diploma and then will you find me a job with the gub’ment? Answer please – THANK YOU.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
10:55 am

Erwin, the law says explicitly that you cannot designate the student to whom the scholarship goes.

well then we’ll see what happens from the complaints of the alleged violations…I only say alleged because no charges have yet to be filed and no one has been indicted….but if what they are doing is deemed legal..I have zero issues with it.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
10:56 am

Because the scholarship law is so secretive CC, Morality, and other defenders can’t defend their views.

When shown blatant evidence of cheating they scream “LIBERAL MEDIA, LIBERAL MEDIA”

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
10:57 am

“No one really cares about this.. Only the far left seems to be up in arms and they are a small percentage of our wonderful bright red state///”

So again Christian Conservative, you have know problem with deceptive, cheating Christian schools?

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
10:59 am

CC: “No one really cares about this.. Only the far left seems to be up in arms and they are a small percentage of our wonderful bright red state”

Afraid you got that one wrong too.

The neoliberal gutting and takeover of the education system is anything but irrelevant to the people On a slightly different front, but the very same crisis, see for example: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-10/news/chi-chicago-public-schools-chicago-teachers-union-contract-talks-strike_1_picket-lines-teachers-strike-president-david-vitale

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
10:59 am

When shown blatant evidence of cheating they scream “LIBERAL MEDIA, LIBERAL MEDIA”

=======================================================================

When shown blatant evidence of cheating (APS) they scream “BUSH, BUSH BUSH”

barking frog

January 30th, 2013
10:59 am

Public perception of law violation is not always the perception
of law makers or law enforcers.

Thomas Heyward Jr

January 30th, 2013
11:00 am

or was that chanting?

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:00 am

“please please please I have a question. After we “gradeate” with our nice diploma can we go to college where you will give me another nice diploma and then will you find me a job with the gub’ment? Answer please – THANK YOU.”

Morality, that one has been submitted to the Deflection Hall of Fame!

Speaking of “morality,” is it moral for Christians to lie and cheat?

weetamoe

January 30th, 2013
11:00 am

A former classmate who lives in AZ and has no school-age children had been directing her taxes to a similar program there. Georgia’s program as described here seems to be a bit different and in fact dishonest. I attended a Massachusetts Catholic day school/boarding school with tuition costs reflecting its excellent reputation. It was close to the Rhode Island state line and a community that had few regional secondary schools at the time. The state of Rhode island provided tuition payments and bus transportation to residents who wished to attend school across the state line. Among the parents taking advantage of the arrangement for their children were a number of fairly affluent non-Catholics. It all seemed to work out ok.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
11:00 am

DannyX:

I see nothing blatant! You don’t either. You only see what Jay and others like him told you to see….

appleseed

January 30th, 2013
11:01 am

The Virginia Governor says leave it alone it works fine as is.—————But.but,I just can’t believe deception in Georgia USA.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:02 am

“When shown blatant evidence of cheating (APS) they scream “BUSH, BUSH BUSH””

What a truly hysterical post! Never once heard it, very bad attempt at deflection, UNCLE.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
11:02 am

Public perception of law violation is not always the perception
of law makers or law enforcers.

see Obamacare

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
11:02 am

Jay – are you bullying Kayaker again? Maybe Kayaker just can’t be on here 24/7. Maybe. Speaking of 24/7 I must go prepare my taxes to presented at the alter of Obama.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
11:03 am

DannyX:

And again. This has shown absolutely nothing but left propaganda simply because they don’t like Republican legislation. Shouldn’t tax payers have a say so where their child should go to school? Shouldn’t they have a say so in where their tax money is spent.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
11:03 am

Very well, CC.

Here’s the explanation from Fulton Science Academy:

“In the coming days, Fulton Science Academy will enroll in a School Scholarship Organization (SSO). This will allow families the opportunity to redirect their Georgia Tax Dollars toward their student’s private school education thereby reducing their overall private school tuition by the amount that they redirect. Under HB 1133, married tax filers can redirect up to $2500.00 and single tax filers can redirect up to $1000.00. This means that our student’s family can earn credit in the amount they deposit in the designated SSO, toward both their tuition and their GA taxes at the same time.”

Here’s a similar explanation from Dominion Classical Christian Academy:

“How can the Georgia Private School Tax Credit benefit my child in attending Dominion?
Donors can designate a specific student to receive their scholarship donation (as long as the student is not a dependent). Therefore, if a student has relatives who pay Georgia Income Tax, the relatives can make a donation and specify the student to receive the scholarship.”

And there are many others for those willing to see.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
11:03 am

And in the reality based world Muslims have little to no tolerance of other religions in many Muslim countries, hate and jihad is taught at numerous madrassahs in Pakistan and elsewhere, and women are little more than chattel. Do you deny any of this

Got news for you. Christians aren’t the most tolerant group either.

It hasn’t been that long ago women didn’t have the right to vote in this country.

Kids from Blue States

January 30th, 2013
11:05 am

Thusa Cartoon or something- “Muslim schools teaching hate, jihad,
religious intolerance…blabla”

speaking of bigotreh,
nothing like a dash of bigotry to go with the failed con ideology.

haha see what i mean, like shootin fish in a barrel

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
11:05 am

You can just sense the desperation coming from the other side.

They know they are losing.

alex

January 30th, 2013
11:07 am

@CC , I looked at the web site, I wouldn’t agree that it is far left. I WOULD like to see Jay reference another one of the institutions that reviews these projects, PERHAPS there is a more balanced view…. Kind of bizarre rationalization from Jay, the LAW says the schools can’t do it, so why complain about the LAW…the schools can say whatever they want. Jay, you seem to complain about the law, the LAW supports what you want, complain to the schools.

weetamoe

January 30th, 2013
11:07 am

Excuse the typos in previous post. I am taking advantage of being able to watch Senate hearings on guns. Some good points being made except for Kelly exploiting his poor wife once again.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
11:07 am

Cheesy – Christians aren’t the most tolerant group either.

well not the faux Christians anyway…If you ever meet a real one you might think otherwise

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
11:07 am

Uncle Samantha: “When shown blatant evidence of cheating (APS) they scream “BUSH, BUSH BUSH””

Yeah, the neoliberal direction taken by Obama and his education elite cronies like Arne Duncan stinks. And it is also an approach that is DIRECTLY in line with the policies started by George W. Bush and his neoliberal NCLB framework.

Funny, by the way, that Jay Bookman doesn’t bring up the large policy issues surrounding the issues such as the cheating scandal, the Chicago teachers strike, and the GDE corruption under discussion here. These issues are all related.

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
11:08 am

TBS,

Most Muslim schools here in the U.S. I’m sure are probably fine schools that just like good Catholic schools do nothing more than provide a good education. I just doubt that they emphasize much tolerance for other folks religions which to me is a quintessential American value. And I doubt that even the good ones are going to teach much if anything about equality between the sexes.

Some guy did a documentary several years back on a Muslim school that was literally teaching jihad and had their male kids running obstacle courses and engaging in military style training and indoctrination. I doubt there’s more than 1 or 2 schools doing that and I don’t consider that to be a credible threat. But I do believe that there are more Muslim schools than we think that do teach intolerance, male superiority, etc. Still its their freedom to do so even if we do disagree with it.

guy

January 30th, 2013
11:08 am

Keep up the arguing as it will change a lot. You can feel the love reading these posts. One thing’s for sure,we are all insane and selfish! Keep up the good work,all!

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
11:09 am

X – “Is it o.k. for Christians to lie and cheat? And YOU are asking me?

MaJo

January 30th, 2013
11:09 am

Help me out here. If someone contributes the money to the school and gets a dollar-for-dollar deduction, isn’t it their own money that is going to the school rather than someone else’s? Are we saying that any deduction is the same thing as “spending taxpayer money.”

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:09 am

“Shouldn’t tax payers have a say so where their child should go to school? Shouldn’t they have a say so in where their tax money is spent.”

They have a choice, public schools. Private schools are called “private” for a reason!

Again, this isn’t a tax deduction this is a tax credit. And NO, individuals don’t get to pick and choose where their tax money is spent! I can’t opt out of the local police department to fund “private” security. I don’t get a $2,500 tax credit to pay for my security team.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
11:10 am

“Jay, you seem to complain about the law, the LAW supports what you want, complain to the schools.”

Actually, when someone breaks state law, you complain to the state and expect the state to enforce that law, correct?

Which is exactly what SEF has done.

Thulsa Doom

January 30th, 2013
11:10 am

“You can just sense the desperation coming from the other side.

They know they are losing.”

Lay off the heavy drugs dude. Its obviously dulling your senses.

Doggone/GA

January 30th, 2013
11:11 am

“dollar-for-dollar deduction”

Except it isn’t a deduction. It’s an offset. They aren’t at all the same thing. Essentially, they are getting up to $2500 of their child’s education fees for free

AmericaShrugged

January 30th, 2013
11:11 am

Why isn’t today’s piece about the sweeping ethics reform proposed by the Georgia
Speaker? Because Republicans are the ethical party, Dems are the party of spin and misdirection.

TBS

January 30th, 2013
11:11 am

“well not the faux Christians anyway…If you ever meet a real one you might think otherwise”

Not sure how one would define “real one”, however that can be said for Buddhists, Muslims, etc, etc………. as well as Christians

I prefer to define it by a someone being genuine and trustworthy not necessarily by their religious or spiritual beliefs, although that can play a significant variable.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
11:11 am

FROG – “homosexual schools” – Will they have Planned Parenthood?

GT

January 30th, 2013
11:11 am

PROOF is this flat tire we call a state. Tee off on Obama but this state wakes up ,and has for hundreds of years before Obama was born, broke, illiterate and every thing else that goes in the bad column.

Now you say the Democrats were in office for most of that time. I say the same type people have been in office, call em whatever you want. I say one other thing too; Sanders, Busby, Carter and a few more were a lot better than anything the modern day definition of Georgia Republicans has come out with. Get you nose out of Obama’s kitchen and clean your own joint up.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:12 am

“I WOULD like to see Jay reference another one of the institutions that reviews these projects, PERHAPS there is a more balanced view”

alex, part of the argument is this program is so secretive that you can’t get the information needed to assess it.

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:12 am

Jay

Don’t beat on kayaker if he doesn’t respond immediately, from what I gathered a while back he may be dealing with a few things that require IMMEDIATE attention.

Doggone/GA

January 30th, 2013
11:12 am

“Why isn’t today’s piece about the sweeping ethics reform”

Might it be because this is Jay’s blog, not YOURS? blogspot.com is ready when you are

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
11:12 am

Because Republicans are the ethical party, Dems are the party of spin and misdirection.

LOL. I almost fell out of my chair.

Hilarious.

AmericaShrugged

January 30th, 2013
11:13 am

Dems are the party of ignore laws they don’t like.

TBS

January 30th, 2013
11:14 am

Thulsa

Good point and I didn’t deny it didn’t occur. I was wanting to see the list or partial list of those receiving tax payer money as asserted. Just merely pointing out that Scout’s assertion and lack of evidence was shady at best.

Morality?

January 30th, 2013
11:14 am

JAY – WHEN you see someone break the Fed law you complain to the Fed Gub’ment (Obama) and he will turn a blind eye to you if he does not agree with the laws on the books he swore under oath to uphold. What’s good for the Fed is good for the state – right?

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
11:15 am

TBS – I prefer to define it by a someone being genuine and trustworthy not necessarily by their religious or spiritual beliefs, although that can play a significant variable.

agreed…no doubt, integrity and sincerity play large in my definitions of individuals regardless of religious persuasion

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:16 am

Admit it

You want to defund PUBLIC education so that all THEM people have substandard educations and you 1%ers can hire them BELOW minimum wage :-)

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
11:17 am

Morality FROG – “homosexual schools” – Will they have Planned Parenthood?

Ha! :D

St Simons

January 30th, 2013
11:18 am

One of my jobs is to identify revenue stream opportunities for clients.
This is what my letter will say concerning for-profit-charter-skools:

“If one is totally amoral and has a knack for spitting out bible verses
on cue, one could make a real killing in the education for profit (prophet?)
sector. Pump their little noggins full of the Lord and precious little else
and turn them loose into the world, illiterate and confused, but loving
Jaysus to death and bill the state for a tidy sum for doing so.
Nice opportunity if you have no ethics, morals or humanity.”

Citizen of the World

January 30th, 2013
11:19 am

Thank you, Jay. This is shameful and just another example of “them that’s got shall get.” And yet the Republican continue to cry “class warfare” as if it’s the wealthy who are besieged.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
11:19 am

““Why isn’t today’s piece about the sweeping ethics reform”

Because the proposed bills weren’t available until late last night/this morning, and I had a deadline of 4 p.m. yesterday for today’s AJC column.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
11:19 am

It is hilarious that Thulsa is suddenly worried about the Muslim wimmenfolk when he is one of the biggest misogynistic men blogging here. And all of you wimmen hating republicans going right along with it. Too funny.

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

January 30th, 2013
11:20 am

Erwin’s cat

January 30th, 2013
11:07 am

“well not the faux Christians anyway…If you ever meet a real one you might think otherwise”

No,you would never be able to meet one because the conservative christians of the world would call him a Rino, or Faux Christian and crucify him.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
11:20 am

danny x and his poor cognitive skills……………… NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND……………. APS excusers blamed NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND…………. BUSH BUSH BUSH……………..hello MCFLY

danny x is to malcom x
as
jeff spicoli is to albert einstein

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:21 am

“Because Republicans are the ethical party, Dems are the party of spin and misdirection.”

Sure they are. Glenn Richardson is very ethical, having an affair with a lobbyist is just fine. Nathan Deal protecting his no bid government contract is just fine too. Tom and Chip did a miraculous job getting that no collateral, “We could never pay it back” signature loan for the Roach Motel. Hey, all roads lead to Sonny! Nice face lift Linda. Great expense reports Don Balfour. Hope you had fun on that hunting trip Mr Oxendine. Did you have a great family vacation Mr Speaker. How are those gambling casinos doing Ralph?

Btw, are there any $150,000 a year job openings at GPB?

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:23 am

St Simons

Take a few spellin lessins from josef before you send out the next letter :-)

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:27 am

“APS excusers blamed NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND”

Again, no one I know blamed that scandal on anyone but the system. I surely don’t remember any comments by Jay that blamed it on Bush. There is no way to shift the blame or deflect from the APS cheaters. I can’t remember one person on the ajc blogs defending any of the cheaters.

But hey, bob, weave and deflect all you want, Uncle Samantha.

skipper

January 30th, 2013
11:28 am

The cluster that is APS/Dekalb (and Jay, I’m pretty sure your daughters did not go to one of the “sho-nuff” bad schools, which many are) has caused folks to do what they gotta do……..it may be wrong in the eyes of many, but for the state or any other entity that calls itself remotely interested in education to say that this cluster will improve is doing the citizens and society in general a huge disfavor. Folks want what is best for their kids, and instead of being mad that they use every loophole possible folks should direct their anger at the proper place; the buffoons and incompetents that are running these clusters and calling them education facilities. Oh wait;.that would rile up the political-correctos…..
The entire system needs to be started over some way.The “feel-good” b.s. “remedies that everybody claims is the latest mouse trap is not working. And, as long as the incompetents are in charge, so shall it be. As an independent, I do agree that neither Bush’s NCLB act or any other feel-good deal has cut the mustard for sure. However, you could have a magic act wave a wand, and with the current structure and personal the nepotism and in general crap would even screw that up unless the wacks are kicked out and it starts over. Everyone has the right to vote. the idiots that voted for some of these nuts (and it is their right to do so) have demonstrated that competency is not a prerequisite.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
11:28 am

welcome to the occupation

what is really sad is that both parties fight over CONTROL instead of providing the best education.

the simple truth is that there are SUCCESSFUL schools in all districts………… and instead of fighting for power and control…………….. if we studied the schools that perform in certain areas/demographics/socioeconomic etc………….. then we have the blue prints for improving education for all

for example Wisconsin has great schools but the are homogeneous in income/race/etc……. their schools would benefit school systems that are SIMILAR

just like there are successful schools in City of Atlanta, Chicago and NYC should be the model for improving schools in cities SIMILAR since those have been proven to work in those demographics.

but who wants to impove education…….. its far better to gain and maintain power

Class of '98

January 30th, 2013
11:31 am

Jay, back to David Brooks.

Don’t you think it’s coincidental that you tend to agree with him on so many issues?

I read his column yesterday before I visited your blog, but I was 100% certain that you would be shouting about it from the rooftops, and you didn’t disappoint.

You and I seldom agree, and I respect that. But I refuse to “defend” columns by the “conservative” David Brooks because I reject the basic premise that he is conservative.

And frankly, I would respect you more if you weren’t so predictable in your dishonest portrayal of him as a leading conservative thinker. You are preying on the ignorance of people who don’t regularly read him, and it’s outright deceptive on your part.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
11:32 am

morality-did I miss your evidence of Planned Parenthood in schools?

Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.

January 30th, 2013
11:33 am

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
11:33 am

TALK ABOUT DEFLECT OH DANNY BOY

i didn’t say that anyone defended the cheaters………..liberals blamed it on that horrible NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND…….. you know it ………. you just don’t want to admit it

you are like the cheating husband who accuses his wife of cheating
its just deflection for you

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:34 am

“The cluster that is APS/Dekalb (and Jay, I’m pretty sure your daughters did not go to one of the “sho-nuff” bad schools, which many are) has caused folks to do what they gotta do…”

skipper, this program is so secretive that nobody knows how many students in DeKalb and Atlanta are benefiting from this program. All the recruiting it seems is being done in the affluent good public school suburbs.

You can’t answer this question, “How many students that live in areas that have bad schools are benefiting from this program.”

St Simons

January 30th, 2013
11:35 am

Common – hey man, yes it could use some josef-isms & character.
you’re purty funny yourself too, mon.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
11:35 am

60% approval rating for our President. And non that is not a made up pulled from my rear end, statistic.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
11:37 am

“homosexual schools”

Like Plato’s Academy?

getalife

January 30th, 2013
11:38 am

“U.S. Economy Shrinks For The First Time Since The Recession Ended” AP

Thanks to the cuts but the rest of the numbers are looking good.

Fred ™

January 30th, 2013
11:38 am

Because Republicans are the ethical party, Dems are the party of spin and misdirection.

Wow. You mean like Chip Rogers and Don Balfour?

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
11:40 am

Too darn good not to pass on.

What is “American Exceptionalism”?

This: https://twitter.com/iRevolt/status/296644140475744257/photo/1

GT

January 30th, 2013
11:40 am

You know what I thought was rich was the governor going after some guy because the guy call the governor unethical and the Republican rolled loaded dice to prove Deal wasn’t. Then to add insult to injury Deal sues the guy for the legal expenses for him having to defend himself. Now a show of hands on who thinks we have a ethical governor and if no hands why someone can’t go after this crooked governor without being intimidated by his henchmen. Put that in the same batch of skullduggery we have in this secrecy of private school information and you start getting a picture of retribution.

Fred ™

January 30th, 2013
11:41 am

St Simons: They aren’t even pumping them full of Jaysus. They just pocket the money that they have left after they pay off Nathan and his cronies.

Fred ™

January 30th, 2013
11:42 am

Now a show of hands on who thinks we have a ethical governor

You mean the guy who resigned his seat in Congress so the Congressional Ethics committee couldn’t charge him? THAT Nathan Deal?

getalife

January 30th, 2013
11:43 am

Tornado hit in Ga.

Watch out.

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:43 am

Fred

The pump them full of sumthin.

Just most doesn’t come the better parts of the Bible.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
11:43 am

get – Thanks to the cuts but the rest of the numbers are looking good.

read an article this AM that specifically blamed it on 22% spending cuts by the DOD

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:45 am

get

Just North of Cartersville, Ga.

Scream for FEMA

Fred ™

January 30th, 2013
11:48 am

Common: They keep getting pounded up there. Them and the Rome area. I think I would move. And I don’t say that jokingly. I would move. Same with northern Mississippi and Northern Alabama. They have been devastated the last few years.

Lookiing at the radar it’s going to hit us (Atlanta) about the time I’m heading out for my eye exam…….

TaxPayer

January 30th, 2013
11:48 am

I see Jay is still trying to get through to the “Jindal” Party. :lol:

UNCLE SAMANTHA

January 30th, 2013
11:51 am

dannyx

i apologize for the spicoli comment
that crossed a line and i am sorry

Jay

January 30th, 2013
11:51 am

“And frankly, I would respect you more if you weren’t so predictable in your dishonest portrayal of him as a leading conservative thinker. You are preying on the ignorance of people who don’t regularly read him, and it’s outright deceptive on your part.

Well, let’s see. In previous jobs, Brooks has been an editorial writer for the Washington Times (very conservative) and the Wall Street Journal (very conservative) and an editor at National Review (again, very conservative.) He thinks of himself conservative, and generally supports conservative candidates and causes.

You, on the other hand, do not accept him as conservative. I would argue — and Brooks would agree — that you are judging him by a standard of conservativism that has moved dangerously far to the right in recent years.

By that new standard, Ronald Reagan, that gun-grabbing, abortion-supporting, tax-raising, amnesty-granting, nuke-weapon-abolishing, union-supporting icon of the right, would also not be considered “a leading conservative thinker.”

And if you care to dispute any of those descriptions of Reagan, I have more than enough documentation to back it up.

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:52 am

TP

I wonder if the Charter School students leave APS if the APS IQ level goes up LOL

GT

January 30th, 2013
11:53 am

Yes Fred ™ that N. Deal. By his resume alone all of us should be allowed to accuse him once a month of wrong doings. What protects other politicians from going under this evaluation that Deal seems to suffer from? Maybe they are honest or maybe some campaign fund pays their legal expenses? By Deal suing does that mean he or his crony gets to keep this money. Even that sounds unethical, suing someone for being called unethical and then gaming the system. That Deal is so clever when it comes to his pockets but has nothing for us but intimidation.

St Simons

January 30th, 2013
11:53 am

you’re right fred, i was being diplomatic – git em buddy grrrrr

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:53 am

Jay

Reagan was a RINO and you know it :-)

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
11:55 am

Everyone drive safe today. That storm system is even headed here to Pittsburgh.

59 today and snow tomorrow.

Jay it’s all your fault LOL

TBone

January 30th, 2013
11:56 am

So begins the “new paradigm” or reality where contracting economic activity is a good thing. Spin, spin, spin away you foolish ones, the rest of us know this is anything but good news.

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
11:56 am

DannyX, I answered your question, but don’t see where you answered mine. Did I miss it?

“Now it’s your turn to tell me if you think its ok for you to inflate the AJC’s web site hits from the AJC offices and feed the hit data to prospective advertisers as valid data. Whatcha got?”

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
11:57 am

Jay, class of ‘98: “Well, let’s see. In previous jobs, Brooks has been an editorial writer for the Washington Times (very conservative) and the Wall Street Journal (very conservative) and an editor at National Review (again, very conservative.) He thinks of himself conservative, and generally supports conservative candidates and causes”

Not to mention he was a William F Buckley protege, in getting his National Review gig. Hard to get much more conservative cred than that.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
11:58 am

“And if you care to dispute any of those descriptions of Reagan, I have more than enough documentation to back it up.”

Jay, you forgot the Earned Income Tax Credit which he called “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.”

Republicans can’t stand it now. They think its just a bunch of moochers leeching of the rich who don’t pay taxes and shouldn’t vote.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
11:59 am

Jay:

Why do you have a problem with folks redirecting “THEIR” tax dollars as they see fit?? Its wonderful.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
11:59 am

“As a private institution, the folks at Providence Christian and other schools have every right to maintain that policy. Having such policies subsidized by the taxpayer is another matter entirely. If such discrimination wouldn’t be tolerated in a public school financed with taxpayer money, why should it be tolerated in a private school that is also financed with taxpayer money?”

I agree, Jay. But that is also the same problem I have with Planned Parenthood receiving 45% of its funding from tax dollars and performing nearly 1 million abortions the past three years (I have read close to 60 million have been performed since Roe v. Wade). I am familiar with their claims that none of that money is used for abortions, but it is nothing but a shell game in my view – given that the funds are fungible. Abortions cost roughly 450 dollars. I think PP should not perform abortions at all if they are going to receive federal funding (for other helpful services they do perform), but let some other private organization do it. Giving PP the benefit of doubt, then at the very least, in the interests of preserving appearances (does a married man regularly go out to lunch with a female co-worker and visit her at her home if there is nothing going on?), they ought to not get mixed up with abortions. Or else, go totally private – then no one can cry foul.

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
12:01 pm

CC

so if I lived in the same area as you I could redirect any money for police and fire protection away from the community?

the cat

January 30th, 2013
12:01 pm

“christian” conservative-I would like to redirect MY tax dollars to a beach house but instead I know MY tax dollars are paying for police and fire officers, roads, etc. Are you really that obtuse?

I think you are just trolling here.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
12:01 pm

TBone: “So begins the “new paradigm” or reality where contracting economic activity is a good thing”

You’re actually right. In part, that is.

The liberals are going to wake up to the very unpleasant realization that their great leader has led them into an austerity trap. And the numbers are going to show it, over the long term.

Just one problem. The cutting that this president has undertaken in his spending cut rampage along with the Republicans is WHAT YOUR SIDE WANTS TOO.

So you kind of got to sit there and shut your mouth, since your side wants the same cuts that are bringing about the rapid contractions and convulsions in the economy that we’re just beginning to see.

GT

January 30th, 2013
12:02 pm

One of the defects of our thinking is we allow the right to define liberal. Most of us are moderates willing to compromise with reasonable people left or right. Once mislabeled arguments become rubber stamped and no one questions the reasoning. Many a fist fight has been started with a bad set of ears hearing what was never said.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
12:02 pm

DannyX:

You have still presented no proof of cheating. If your proof is a far left organizations rant then you should relax… This conversion is useless…

Common Sense isn't very Common

January 30th, 2013
12:03 pm

cat

I beat you to a reply to STOOPID post :-)

alex

January 30th, 2013
12:03 pm

Jay –agree,so the law isn’t the problem, it’s the application..why complain about the law? But you are right, complaining to the school was a stupid statement…..

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
12:04 pm

the cat

“christian” conservative-I would like to redirect MY tax dollars to a beach house but instead I know MY tax dollars are paying for police and fire officers, roads, etc. Are you really that obtuse?

I think you are just trolling here.

Just like a misguided lib… I thought we were specifically talking about education here? Nice try fruit… Now wipe that foam off your keyboard and try again….

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
12:05 pm

One more off-topic before I head out to meet with some comrades.

——-

MSNBC is not helping itself here. Assuming of course that it wishes to avoid being dismissed as so much trash news a la Fox, that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/01/30/msnbc-reviewing-newtown-heckled-video/

MSNBC ‘reviewing’ Newtown ‘heckled’ video

MSNBC is reviewing its portrayal of the testimony of Neil Heslin, the father of a Sandy Hook victim, at a legislative hearing in Hartford on Monday. The 33-second video clip in question, embedded above, features a graphics box saying “Mocked and Loaded. Sandy Hook Victim’s Father Heckled by Gun Rights Advocates.”

————-

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
12:05 pm

“Whatcha got?”

I guess I’m busted rb, you got me. I run the AJC Click Room. I’m actually an Indian posting from India. There are 1,500 of us clicking away in a big sweat shop, inflating the data for prospective advertisers. These 10 hour shifts are killer, then I have to to my other job at Comcast manning the Help Desk for 8 more hours.

alex

January 30th, 2013
12:08 pm

@GT, I agree..that is if you are being honest with yourself when you consider your self a moderate ,”bad ears” are also “biased ears”

GT

January 30th, 2013
12:08 pm

Christian Conservative why can’t we redirect our tax dollars where we want them? It is hard enough to get you people to pay for a pave road and you ask a question like that. The KKK would be a government sponsored organization would be one of my answers.

GT

January 30th, 2013
12:10 pm

alex I have in the last 4 years voted for a Republican, have you ever voted for a Democrat?

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:11 pm

“Well, let’s see. In previous jobs, Brooks has been an editorial writer for the Washington Times (very conservative) and the Wall Street Journal (very conservative) and an editor at National Review (again, very conservative.) He thinks of himself conservative, and generally supports conservative candidates and causes.”

He is, in fact, widely known as “the liberals’ favorite conservative”. He was originally a liberal, is pro-choice, is in favor of gay marriage, has been a fan of John McCain and is an admirer of Obama. Probably his most “conservative” characteristic is his seeming “hawkishness” (if that can be called “conservative” – think LBJ).

I think you are being disingenuous, Jay. A Charles Krauthammer he is not – either in ideology or in intellect.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
12:11 pm

getalife

January 30th, 2013
12:11 pm

cat,

Yup but it needed to be cut.

We have to be careful when cutting or go back to a recession and more massive layoffs.

Don’t expect job growth after cuts.

F. Sinkwich

January 30th, 2013
12:13 pm

“Most of us are moderates…”

On this blog ???

Bwaahahahahahahaha

guy

January 30th, 2013
12:13 pm

the cat obama is your president, and if you ask the right folks, he can show an 80% approval rating.

getalife

January 30th, 2013
12:16 pm

Common,

When I watch the wind gusts hit down here when the storm passes over, there is usually a tornado formed in the East.

The gusts were strong last night.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
12:16 pm

The liberals are going to wake up to the very unpleasant realization that their great leader has led them into an austerity trap.

This liberal has been yelling at Obama to stop likening the American economy to a family budget, and to stop saying stupid crap like “We’ve all got to tighten our belts,” for years.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
12:17 pm

troll-here was your post:

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
11:59 am
Jay:

Why do you have a problem with folks redirecting “THEIR” tax dollars as they see fit?? Its wonderful.

Where do you mention education, troll?

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:18 pm

“MSNBC is not helping itself here. Assuming of course that it wishes to avoid being dismissed as so much trash news a la Fox, that.”

Where have you been the last several years? Are you just now beginning to suspect that MSNBC might not be as objective as you imagined (or perhaps just hoped)? They are easily more biased than FNC. They are only “reviewing” their coverage of the video because they got caught, ONCE AGAIN, editing footage to essentially tell a lie:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/01/29/Media-Lies-About-Sandy-Hook-Victim-Being-Heckled

In any case, they appear to be none too smart over there. What? Do they really imagine people are watching what they do – that they can grossly distort the news and no one will notice?

alex

January 30th, 2013
12:19 pm

GT , I don’t know, don’t look at the party affiliation on the ballot.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
12:21 pm

Actually this was taken from the Washington Post so I am sure it is false. Right? Right?

guy

January 30th, 2013
12:13 pm
the cat obama is your president, and if you ask the right folks, he can show an 80% approval rating.

Link Report this comment

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
12:22 pm

if you ask the right folks, he can show an 80% approval rating.

hey, I have no idea where he’s getting that “60%” number. Gallup has the rolling average at 52%, pretty familiar ground for Obama.

(Gallup tends to run a little conservative-friendly, mainly due to their sampling methodology, but I wouldn’t adjust that number upward by more than a couple of points.)

Jay

January 30th, 2013
12:23 pm

“Why do you have a problem with folks redirecting “THEIR” tax dollars as they see fit?? Its wonderful.

Well, in this case, they’re “redirecting” those tax dollars right back into their own pockets.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
12:23 pm

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
12:24 pm

They are easily more biased than FNC.

setting that claim aside for just a moment–

for the gazillionth time, MSNBC does NOT claim to be “fair and balanced.” They do not say “we report, you decided.” Its viewers know full well that this self-described “place for politics” is going to provide them with opinions, mostly.

They’re dealing honestly with their viewers. FNC does not.

bigbadbob

January 30th, 2013
12:25 pm

Wow, where do I start?! First, Jay, happy for you and your kids, but can you really say that across the board the Atlanta, Clayton, and Dekalb public school systems are doing such a great job that there is no need for anyone to want anything different? (And I am sure none of your connections and influence had ANYTHING to do with getting them into college.) Second, do you idiots really think that schools like Westminster and Marist are crippling their students with backwards science educations…I guess all those highly-ranked colleges that accept so many grads from those schools must not know what all of you seem to know. Third, regardless of whether some people abuse the system, just about any intelligent kid with concerned and involved partenting who gets pulled from an under-performing public school to a good private school will end up getting more from their education. Fourth, this money is coming from the general tax fund, NOT from the state education funds, so this is NOT money that would otherwise automatically be in school budgets (which come from the counties, if you guys care to be informed). Finally, while all you puclic school apologists love to whine and complain about private schools, think about this: if all those thousands of kids who are currenlty in private schools suddenly showed up at your public schools, you would not have one single penny of extra tax money to provide for the 20+ % increase in enrollment, so what would happen then. You should thank your lucky stars that so many parents manage to find ways to get their kids top-notch educations outside of the often-broken public school system while still paying a big share of the property taxes that fund the public schools. Class envy disguised as concern for education or outrage over miss-spent public money is an ugly thing…
And blaming the Georgia GOP, while convenient, overlooks the record that the Democratic party accrued during their preceding 100 years of monopoly dictatorial control. I guess before about 2002 the Georgia public schools were ranked in the top 10% of the country and there was no corruption down at the golden dome?

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
12:25 pm

Towncrier — ” They are only “reviewing” their coverage of the video because they got caught, ONCE AGAIN, editing footage to essentially tell a lie:”

Per your link, where’s the actual *evidence* that, as is claimed, “NBC News has been caught red-handed maliciously editing video,” please? I’m especially interested in the evidence of “malice” and of the “red-handed” characterization of the perpetrator(s)’ apprehension.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
12:26 pm

Thanks for the link, cat. Gotta say though, that’s a mighty noisy poll.

guy

January 30th, 2013
12:27 pm

the cat do you believe what you hear or read from Washington?

bigbadbob

January 30th, 2013
12:28 pm

“Well, in this case, they’re “redirecting” those tax dollars right back into their own pockets.”
Jay, that is either an extremently poorly worded response or an out and out lie!

skipper

January 30th, 2013
12:28 pm

Still so many missing the point………folks are going to do soething to save their kids from many of these cesspools (and the buffoons who serve on the boards.) Call it rich folks, white folks etc. (although many blacks as well have fled these clusters.) Better get to the root of the problem, or the political games will continue with no end in sight……….

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
12:28 pm

bigbadbob — “You should thank your lucky stars that so many parents manage to find ways to get their kids top-notch educations outside of the often-broken public school system while still paying a big share of the property taxes that fund the public schools.”

Paying property taxes is obligatory. You’re *supposed* to pay your property taxes.

Paying for your kids’ private schooling is a choice. People make their own choices.

I fail to see why I should be so thankful for either one.

Mick

January 30th, 2013
12:28 pm

Yes, I tried to watch hannity’s show last month and couldn’t make past 15 minutes of that spiel. Ok, so it’s his opinion but the slant is just so over the top anti-obama, it’ll give you a headache. Feel sorry for his regular viewers who hang on every word of that pompous idiot..

Doggone/GA

January 30th, 2013
12:29 pm

“Jay, that is either an extremently poorly worded response or an out and out lie!”

No, it isn’t. If they “donate” to a school and then get a dollar-for-dollar tax offset (not deduction) then, yes, they are “donating” that money to THEMSELVES

Doggone/GA

January 30th, 2013
12:31 pm

“Yes, I tried to watch hannity’s show last month and couldn’t make past 15 minutes of that spiel”

Then you’ve got a stronger stomach than I have. I last just about as long as it takes to click to the next channel.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:32 pm

How truly sad. If only the proposed gun control measures had been passed, she might have lived:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/29/15-year-old-girl-shot-and-killed-in-kenwood-neighborhood-park/

Oh wait…Chicago already has very strict gun laws. Hmmm…maybe the problem and “solution” is not so much guns as something else. No! Let’s rush to get gun legislation passed though (as even someone like Piers Morgans has admitted) it is only symbolic. Let’s not bother really trying to figure out what we can do to reduce gun violence in America.

stands for decibels

January 30th, 2013
12:35 pm

I’m not given to making predictions, since my crystal ball never worked all that well. However:

This fund-siphoning will almost certainly exacerbate some HOPE scholarship “adjustment” in the near future.

And the proposed adjustment will NOT be to re-instate some sort of means testing but, instead, be some variant of “screw the poors.”

Look before I leap...

January 30th, 2013
12:36 pm

“Just like a misguided lib… I thought we were specifically talking about education here? Nice try fruit… Now wipe that foam off your keyboard and try again….”

I thought so too, yet your very first post at 9:48 deflected straight to Obamacare.
Your 3rd post was about the economy.

You keep talking out of both sides of your mouth in rain like this, you’re gonna drown.

indigo

January 30th, 2013
12:36 pm

Morality – 11:14 “will turn a blind eye to you if he does not not agree with the laws on the books”

That’s what our Georgia Republican politicians did for years while we complained, in vain, about all the illegals comming into our country and state.

getalife

January 30th, 2013
12:36 pm

I can take about 5 minutes of fox news.

Now, imagine these cons watching it all the time.

cnn is shaking up their programming so I gave them a few suggestions like fire all bushies for credibility. Time for wolf and other rw hacks like erin to go too.

Granny Godzilla

January 30th, 2013
12:37 pm

Towncrier

Strict gun laws?

Useless without closing show loopholes and expanding the backround checks.

NRA supported the expanded backround checks until today apparently….

Follow the money.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
12:38 pm

Wow TC, so you know where those guns came from? They could have been bought here in GA. What a silly deflecting post that just shows the lack of real defense to what have been proposed.

TBone

January 30th, 2013
12:39 pm

@ Welcome ,”WHAT YOUR SIDE WANTS TOO. ”
I think you got me confused with someone else. I don’t align myself with any given political entity. I don’t put my faith in men who are selfish and greedy. I am merely passing through trying to get by and get along with other pilgrims.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
12:41 pm

oui Guy, If it is on the internet it must be true, correct?

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
12:41 pm

Towncrier: “Where have you been the last several years? Are you just now beginning to suspect that MSNBC might not be as objective as you imagined (or perhaps just hoped)? They are easily more biased than FNC. ”

No, not more biased. Just equally so. “Balanced”, you might even say.

MSNBC is the other side of the coin to FOX. FOX being the propaganda arm of the Republican party and MSNBC the propaganda arm of the Democratic party.

They both stink to high heaven of intellectual/moral corruption, if you ask me.

bigbadbob

January 30th, 2013
12:41 pm

Doggone/GA: Their tax bill is still the same…it is just like donating part of your federal tax bill to the election finance fund. That money does not come back to the taxpayer in any way, shape, or form.

Joe Hussein Mama: They are paying the property taxes that fund the public schools, yet using their own money to send their kids to private schools. You should be thankful because if they sent their kids to the public schools, they would not be paying any extra taxes and the public schools would be even more overcrowded and underfunded that they are now. Think of it as if thousands of people were paying the GA 400 or I-85 HOT lane tolls, but never used the road. If they suddenly started using the road, the toll revenue would remain the same but the roads would be a lot more crowded.

Dwoody

January 30th, 2013
12:41 pm

Mr. C.C.

Should I be able to tell Georgia not to build bridges to St. Simons Island because I only vacation in Tybee? Not to deploy Highway Patrol on 85 south, because I only drive on 75 south? Tell the Feds not to maintain a National Park in Alaska, because I will never visit it?

You think your tax return is long now, just wait until we get to fill the bubbles in on what we do and do not want our money spent on.

indigo

January 30th, 2013
12:42 pm

Towncrier – 12:32 “how truly sad” “what we can do to reduce gun violence”

How about banning all guns except for soldiers and police?

That would certainly reduce gun violence.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:44 pm

“Per your link, where’s the actual *evidence* that, as is claimed, “NBC News has been caught red-handed maliciously editing video,” please? I’m especially interested in the evidence of “malice” and of the “red-handed” characterization of the perpetrator(s)’ apprehension.”

Huh? The original, full video runs 17 minutes and 20 seconds. The “clip” aired by MSNBC runs 33 seconds with the headline Heslin was “heckled”. MSNBC elected to show that part of the hearing that might be perceived as a poor father being beat up on by gun enthusiasts. No one was heckling him, they were challenged to answer a question and some tried to do that.

I really shouldn’t have to spell all of this out for you, JHM. If there wasn’t some truth in Breitbart’s story, MSNBC wouldn’t be “reviewing” anything. I think any fair minded person can see that.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
12:46 pm

bigbadbob — “Joe Hussein Mama: They are paying the property taxes that fund the public schools, yet using their own money to send their kids to private schools. You should be thankful because if they sent their kids to the public schools, they would not be paying any extra taxes and the public schools would be even more overcrowded and underfunded that they are now.”

FWIW, I don’t see where anyone in all that deserves *thanks.* I don’t have kids clogging up any school system, but I’m paying property taxes so that *other people’s kids* can go to school. Maybe you should be thanking me instead.

“Think of it as if thousands of people were paying the GA 400 or I-85 HOT lane tolls, but never used the road. If they suddenly started using the road, the toll revenue would remain the same but the roads would be a lot more crowded.”

That analogy works if you apply it to me, but not to the people who are sending their kids to private school. What they’re doing is analogous to building *another* set of roads and highways that only they can use. Whereas I’m paying for the roads (school system) and never using them at all (no kids).

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
12:46 pm

Economic growth reported today and the growth rate is at astounding .1%. That’s is not 1%, liberals, it’s point one percent. Recession over? Bozo doing a hellova job bringing this country back. No one to blame except himself. And you liberals voted for this clown. I really don’t know who blame, Bozo or you.

alex

January 30th, 2013
12:48 pm

@getalife, so you think wolf is rw, so you want to watch news that ONLY agrees with your already preformed viewpoint,that only gets you more insulated form the most accurate data. Where does that get you?More biased and more insular, that’s where. This may be news to you but you may not have the most accurate ideas. Get out of your warm and cozy box, challenge yourself. Personally I TRY to watch a wide variety of news programs, to TRY to be more centered–not always successful! Read the op-ed in the Washington Post and the WSJ, I know it can be uncomfortable, but try it.

getalife

January 30th, 2013
12:48 pm

Actually, Mr. Heslin asked a question on why we need AR’s and got an answer.

Second amendment.

He is a pretty good speaker and will fight for no more children like his being slaughtered at school.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:48 pm

“How about banning all guns except for soldiers and police? That would certainly reduce gun violence.”

So, do you really want to ban all guns? If so, then thanks for that candid admission (and not pretending to be in favor of the traditional and current SC interpretation of the 2A)..

It would reduce gun violence some, but since most of the gun-related homicides are perpetrated by criminals, not nearly as much as you suppose.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
12:48 pm

No one was heckling him, they were challenged to answer a question and some tried to do that.

Nope. fail. The man was testifying before Congress. That is NOT a debate or an exchange. Moreoever the question he asked was “WHY…..” and some of the responses were “shall not infringe”. That does NOT answer WHY.

Rockerbabe

January 30th, 2013
12:48 pm

And, you folks think the Ga GOP is really going to “reform” their ethics? Well, one has to have ethics so reform and I don’t see them getting any in the near future. As for the private school ripoff; well what else would one think from a state run by the GOP?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
12:50 pm

and not pretending to be in favor of the traditional and current SC interpretation of the 2A

So you admit that gun control is permitted and ownership of guns may be restricted. That is what you just acknowledged.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
12:50 pm

“First, Jay, happy for you and your kids, but can you really say that across the board the Atlanta, Clayton, and Dekalb public school systems are doing such a great job that there is no need for anyone to want anything different? (And I am sure none of your connections and influence had ANYTHING to do with getting them into college.)”

No, Bob, I hope to never say anything so foolish. Of course those systems have to be improved, and significantly so.

I’m also afraid that you greatly exaggerate my “connections and influence” over college admissions officers.

getalife

January 30th, 2013
12:52 pm

alex,

I watch cnn because they take AP headlines and report them.

They use yellow journalism with he said she said to create conflicts and voice their opinions.

I can filter out that bs and make up my own mind about the AP headlines.

Try it.

Bizzaro For More Guns -- Me Like Shiny Things

January 30th, 2013
12:53 pm

Let’s not bother really trying to figure out what we can do to reduce gun violence in America.

No. Bizzaro love shiny guns that make loud noise — like you! You like gun, lots of noise, smell bad, and dangerous when mouth opened.

Biazarro like.

alex

January 30th, 2013
12:53 pm

@JHN,agree to a pointif they are getting a full tax credit..I guess it’s the cost of civilized society which must be evenly distributed (do the “poor” pay?) ;anyway,share in the pain and share in the gain…whew, copyright that!

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:53 pm

“Wow TC, so you know where those guns came from? They could have been bought here in GA. What a silly deflecting post that just shows the lack of real defense to what have been proposed.”

So…may I conclude that you are hereby going on record to say that guns are the principal reason for the gun violence in America and so it is not really necessary to really figure out what is going on BEFORE passing legislation (you know, as in knowing what the problem is before trying to fix it)?

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
12:53 pm

Towncrier — “Huh? The original, full video runs 17 minutes and 20 seconds. The “clip” aired by MSNBC runs 33 seconds with the headline Heslin was “heckled”.

So “red-handed” in this case means that they were caught physically editing the video? Is that what they’re saying?

“MSNBC elected to show that part of the hearing that might be perceived as a poor father being beat up on by gun enthusiasts. No one was heckling him, they were challenged to answer a question and some tried to do that.”

I haven’t questioned that.

“I really shouldn’t have to spell all of this out for you, JHM.”

You don’t; I understand your criticism. However, I think *I* am going to have to explain my questions to *you* because you clearly aren’t getting what I’m saying.

“If there wasn’t some truth in Breitbart’s story, MSNBC wouldn’t be “reviewing” anything. I think any fair minded person can see that.”

Please pay *specific* attention to what I say next and don’t try to figure out what I might mean by it. Just attend to the questions I’m asking.

How, exactly, was MSNBC “caught red-handed” in all this?

How, exactly, is there “malice” involved?

I haven’t *questioned* that the video was edited. So what makes their editing ‘malicious?’ And how were they caught ‘red-handed?’ My point is that Breitbart’s criticism of any partisanship on NBCs part is blunted by Breitbart’s *own* partisan criticism in pointing it out. I’d have a lot more respect for an impartial observer pointing it out without the use of additional charged language like that.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
12:54 pm

TBone: ‘I don’t put my faith in men who are selfish and greedy’

Well that’s good. That is, as long as you don’t then put your faith in gods who are selfish and greedy.

alex

January 30th, 2013
12:55 pm

You filter with a filtered mind already, we all do..Miss the old UPI,better spors…

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
12:55 pm

Oh wait…Chicago already has very strict gun laws.

Gun laws wont stop every murder with a gun.

But it will stop some.

Thats the point dummy.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
12:56 pm

“So you admit that gun control is permitted and ownership of guns may be restricted. That is what you just acknowledged.”

I did? I think you need a logic course. Probably a reading comprehension course as well, since I am on record here saying what I think 2A means.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
12:56 pm

Also, kayaker, now that you’re back.

Have you found mentions of that alleged income limit in Georgia’s law? Or the alleged list of 29 schools?

I should note that you also got the GDP number wrong. It didn’t increase by 0.1 percent, as you state. It fell by 0.1 percent.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

January 30th, 2013
12:56 pm

Dang! That’s a pretty slick scheme. So we can say nobody’s tax money is going to private schools while we’re sending tax money to private schools. Only a brainy godly Republican could think that one up. But I reckon I won’t be using it. With a choice between giving up my tax refund to provide for little Nathan Zell George’s private schooling and keeping the tax refund, to public school the little feller will go.

Anyway, I hope y’all appreciate the risk I’m running to get beer in the stores for all the drunks fine folks out there. I could get hit by a tornado and blowed into South Carolina. It would probly take the boss at least 10 minutes to find a replacement for me.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
12:57 pm

So…may I conclude that you are hereby going on record to say that guns are the principal reason for the gun violence in America

Yep. More guns and less guns control result in more gun violence.

and so it is not really necessary to really figure out what is going on BEFORE passing legislation (you know, as in knowing what the problem is before trying to fix it)?

That is your false conclusion and rather silly. We know a lot of what is going on and how to address many of the issues. Of course, the NRA has lobbied successfully to stop a lot of “figuring out” and reporting. So you really have no point but to post some inane claim of NRA buffoonery.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
12:57 pm

alex — “@JHN,agree to a pointif they are getting a full tax credit..I guess it’s the cost of civilized society which must be evenly distributed (do the “poor” pay?) ;anyway,share in the pain and share in the gain…whew, copyright that!”

FWIW, I have no problem paying taxes to support public schools. And I don’t have a problem with parents moving so their kid can go to better schools in a better district. And I don’t have a problem with parents pulling their kid out of public school so they can home-school him, send him to private school, a church academy, whatever they like. My issue is solely based on having to pay for those alternatives, either explicitly (via tax receipts being used to fund them) or implicitly (people who fund them get a tax writeoff).

If you want to send your kid to public school, great. That’s what they’re here for.

But if you don’t want to, you have to foot the bill yourself for the alternative. S’all I’m saying.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
12:57 pm

Well, in this case, they’re “redirecting” those tax dollars right back into their own pockets

now that’s a program I can get behind….can I be my own charity as well?

getalife

January 30th, 2013
12:57 pm

kay,

Actually it is defense cuts ans more cuts coming in 30 days so don’t expect job growth after cuts.

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
12:57 pm

Just face it. Liberals care far more about their concept of “fairness” in education than they do about the results. If little Jimmy’s family wants him to get a great education at some private school, they label Jimmy and his family pariah’s and gladly take the family’s tax dollars and spread them over the remaining students while arguing whether we’ll be 48th or 49th on the education list this year. If all but 1 kid in the state were pulled from the government school system and enrolled in private school, they’d still spend a billion dollars on the 1 kid and argue about the shape of the table after he drops out of school instead of doing anything useful.

And as the liberals whine about conservatives, they completely ignore the fact the worst school systems in the state by far are the democrat controlled systems in the predominatly democrat cities and counties. And yet it’s always the Republicans who are the problem.

DannyX

January 30th, 2013
12:57 pm

“People that want more gun control must have a hole in their chest”

–Ronald Reagan

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
12:59 pm

TC, you referenced the current SC decision (Heller) so your denial means that despite your post you apparently either have no clue what Heller decided and what the dicta says or you disagree. Either way you are being disingenuous and foolish.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
12:59 pm

Gun laws wont stop every murder with a gun.

But it will stop some.

murder by knife or shovel is so much more bearable

Look before I leap...

January 30th, 2013
1:00 pm

“No one to blame except himself. And you liberals voted for this clown. I really don’t know who blame, Bozo or you.”

Well lets toss in Congress and while we’re at it, the GOP for giving us such a crap clown like Romney.

And just for grins a giggles, take 30 seconds and go look up the definition of of “recession”.

The chicken little bit is getting tedious.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
1:01 pm

Ronald Reagan

As Gov. of California, Reagan signed the Mulford Act which prohibited the carrying of firearms on your person, in your vehicle and in any public place.
As Gov. of Cal. Reagan signed off on a 15-day waiting period for guns.
As president he signed into law a ban on ownership of fully automatic rifles.
After leaving the presidency he supported the Brady Bill which provided for a 7-day waiting period for guns.
In 1994 he wrote Congress supporting a ban on assault rifles.

Would he be a Republican today.

Not a chance.

St Simons

January 30th, 2013
1:01 pm

The republicans have incentivized corruption and made loophole surfing
a national sport.

and they’ve been slick about it, so their base rubes are slow to catch on
oh, but they will, and when they do, they’ll come after those snake oil
salesmen with their hoverounds and their Oldsmobiles, it will be ugly

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
1:02 pm

murder by knife or shovel is so much more bearable

Yep. Attempts to commit murder by knife or shovel are much more likely to be survivable. But hey, you arm your army with knives and shovels. Mine will take guns. Let’s see who wins.

bigbadbob

January 30th, 2013
1:02 pm

Hussein: A lot of those private school grads are the doctors, college professors, researchers, and business owners who contribute much to society, so if you live on an island or in a cave somewhere and do not benefit at all from anything external to yourself, then I guess you are right. Look at it like this: if we can all agree that a more highly educated, successful, and productive population is a good thing, and a subset of the population is funding part of that goal out of their own pockets, does that not benefit everyone. I think that would be true even if the end product was the same from both systems, and even more so if you factor in the possibility that the average Westminster or Marist grad may be more productive than the average APS grad. Do you really need to care why they are more productive, if it doesn’t cost you anything to make them so?

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 30th, 2013
1:02 pm

murder by knife or shovel is so much more bearable

And much harder to do.

Come at me with a knife or shovel.

You aren’t gonna like what happens next.

Guns make it too easy. Any fool can ( and will ) pull a trigger.

the cat

January 30th, 2013
1:03 pm

I think we should start calling these “christian” schools and let them know we think they are all cheating the system and ask them how they justify that to themselves and their god.

Welcome to the Occupation

January 30th, 2013
1:04 pm

RB from Gwinnett: “Just face it. Liberals care far more about their concept of “fairness” in education than they do about the results”

There’s no conflict between those two things. “Fairness” is an essential aspect of getting results in education.

“And as the liberals whine about conservatives, they completely ignore the fact the worst school systems in the state by far are the democrat controlled systems in the predominatly democrat cities and counties”

Of course. Democrats historically have represented those from less privileged areas of society socio-economically. What’s surprising about that?

And if there is ONE nearly absolute determinant of the academic success rates of an area, it is its affluence or lack thereof.

And THAT is what people like you continue to whine about in your effort to deflect from the fact of social injustice as the primary driver of imbalances in educational achievement.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
1:04 pm

RB — “Just face it. Liberals care far more about their concept of “fairness” in education than they do about the results.”

Ridiculous.

Government services are provided at the local, county, state and Federal level. There’s no opt-out provision that lets you receive alternative services or a check if you don’t like the way the service is provided.

You can drive on roads, highways and interstates for free. But you can’t say ‘I don’t have a car’ and demand a MARTA card and taxi vouchers for the roads you paid for but don’t use. Same thing goes for schools; we pay taxes to sustain them, but the choice of whether or not to use them rests with parents.

We pay taxes at various levels to sustain those services that are available for all to use — like roads and schools. But you don’t get something *back* if you don’t use them.

Bizzaro For More Guns -- Me Like Shiny Things

January 30th, 2013
1:06 pm

No one was heckling him, they were challenged to answer a question and some tried to do that.

Who said this crazy statement? And me thought Bizarro was dumb! Me laugh now – me found someone even dumberierierere than Biazarro.

Ha. ha.

Erwin's cat

January 30th, 2013
1:08 pm

the cat – let them know we think they are all cheating the system

it doesn’t matter what “we” (speak for yourself sport) “think” about they are doing

Granny Godzilla

January 30th, 2013
1:10 pm

kayaker 71

January 30th, 2013
12:46 pm

Economic growth reported today and the growth rate is at astounding .1%. That’s is not 1%, liberals, it’s point one percent. Recession over? Bozo doing a hellova job bringing this country back. No one to blame except himself. And you liberals voted for this clown. I really don’t know who blame, Bozo or you.
.
.
.
.Not only did you get the number wrong…..but you accepted a version of the story that leaves
the real good stuff out.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/01/where_are_the_military_keynesians.php?ref=fpblg

“Personal income is way up, leading to an increase in both personal savings and consumption. Private sector investment is way up’

Bizzaro For More Guns -- Me Like Shiny Things

January 30th, 2013
1:10 pm

Do you really need to care why they are more productive, if it doesn’t cost you anything to make them so?

Bizarro want see grades. They say to APS, “Show me grades” Now! Why no can see others grades? Why not same?

Oooh look shiny!

RB from Gwinnett

January 30th, 2013
1:11 pm

“Of course. Democrats historically have represented those from less privileged areas of society socio-economically. What’s surprising about that?”

The surprising thing about that for me is the complete lack of whining about it from the people who pretend to care. Where are the speaches from the community leaders, the rally’s to end the drop out rate, the public service announcements, anything??? When are Jesse and Al going to show up and demand the black community stop calling their bretheren names for succeeding in school? When is Bookman going to call them out for it?

Yet we dance around the truth of the matter being more concerned about political correctness while another generation of low income kids runs headlong down the road to poverty with no education to free them from the cycle.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
1:12 pm

bigbadbob — “Hussein: A lot of those private school grads are the doctors, college professors, researchers, and business owners who contribute much to society, so if you live on an island or in a cave somewhere and do not benefit at all from anything external to yourself, then I guess you are right.”

FWIW, my dad’s a senior professor of Microbiology in the Agriculture department of a ‘name’ university. I’m not going to say what school, because a lot of football fans here on Jay’s blog would start ragging on me about it. :D

But my dad went to a pretty backwards school system in a pretty backwards podunk part of the country (Appalachia) and he turned out just fine. I hear what you’re saying about the higher-quality education kids can get at places like Pace and Westminster, but IMO that’s on the *parents* to provide. OTOH, if you think every kid deserves an education like that, then we’re on to a different discussion, I think.

“Look at it like this: if we can all agree that a more highly educated, successful, and productive population is a good thing, and a subset of the population is funding part of that goal out of their own pockets, does that not benefit everyone.”

I completely agree. But doesn’t that benefit come *later,* when the kids are grown up and productive? You seem to want to reward the parents now, even before the kids have shown if they’re going to achieve or not.

“I think that would be true even if the end product was the same from both systems, and even more so if you factor in the possibility that the average Westminster or Marist grad may be more productive than the average APS grad. Do you really need to care why they are more productive, if it doesn’t cost you anything to make them so?”

FWIW, I think of the parents as making an *investment* in their kids’ futures. We as a country invest in every kid’s future when we support public schools. But some parents want to make a bet with higher stakes, so they sacrifice in order to send their kids to schools like that.

Maybe their investment will pay off, and maybe it won’t. But I think it’s their choice to make, because they’re the ones taking the risk.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
1:16 pm

“So “red-handed” in this case means that they were caught physically editing the video? Is that what they’re saying?”

I am not defending the tenor of Brietbart’s reporting. But I am not inclined to believe an alien or demon-possessed person did it. Rather, I believe MSNBC actually edited the video and HOW they edited it is PLAIN for all to see. The evidence is right before our eyes. Whether one says they were “caught” doing it (implying guilt) or that there editing is “questionable” or “suspicious” is of less concern to someone like me (who understands how “stories” are really put together and chosen for publication).

“I haven’t questioned that.”

Okay, good. It seemed as if you might be.

“You don’t; I understand your criticism.”

As you stipulated above.

“How, exactly, was MSNBC “caught red-handed” in all this? How, exactly, is there “malice” involved?”

If MSNBC PURPOSEFULLY edited the tape and headlined the story to make it appear gun rights advocates were heckling a poor, grieving father when IN FACT they were not, then 1) it is an underhanded thing to do and 2) there would be malice behind such a false accusation. Thus they could be said to have been “caught” doing something underhanded and called “malicious” for doing it.

“My point is that Breitbart’s criticism of any partisanship on NBCs part is blunted by Breitbart’s *own* partisan criticism in pointing it out. I’d have a lot more respect for an impartial observer pointing it out without the use of additional charged language like that.”

Point taken. Breitbart is biased and not always right. But that doesn’t mean they are always wrong or do not make valid criticisms (regardless of their tone). I think the same can be said for the Huffington Post. There are some right and left wing media sources that are really sloppy and inaccurate most of the time Neither B or HP fall into that category, IMO.

Snellville Dawg

January 30th, 2013
1:17 pm

Good write-up Jay. Very disturbing.

St Simons

January 30th, 2013
1:19 pm

everybody come to my surfing skool.
My un-auditable curriculum –
Philosophy-
-toes in the water, ass in the sand
-not a worry in the world, a cold beer in your hand
Chemistry-
-tie one on/up
-margaritta mixing
‘Science’
-the ocean could NOT have risen that far in just 6000 yrs
-see dinosaur tracks! (wait that’s somebody from Atl’s german shepherd)

hey, ‘divert’ your tax monay obligations to this accountant (no, really,
YOU do it, ’cause if I did that, i would go to jail). and i’ll bill the state
a tidy sum fer the privelege.
Free mahhket! Praise jaysus! Ride the wave mon.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
1:23 pm

“We pay taxes at various levels to sustain those services that are available for all to use — like roads and schools. But you don’t get something *back* if you don’t use them.”

Well, that is just the rub. Everyone uses roads because it is impractical or even impossible not to. The same cannot be said of public education. And there is a legitimate argument to be made that parents should not have to fund a program that does not serve them well (or at all). I, for one, think competition in the market place is a good thing.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
1:30 pm

“TC, you referenced the current SC decision (Heller) so your denial means that despite your post you apparently either have no clue what Heller decided and what the dicta says or you disagree. Either way you are being disingenuous and foolish.”

I referenced Heller as a counterpoint to the desire of certain liberals (perhaps even yourself) to ban all guns, not because I endorse the ruling completely. What I believe 2A to mean does not correspond fully with the majority opinion in Heller. You are apparently out of your depth here, so it seems pointless to debate this argument of YOUR construction with you. Should you have a wish to try your hand a mind reading professionally, let me counsel you against that. Maybe reading tarot cards would be more up your alley.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
1:31 pm

Towncrier — “If MSNBC PURPOSEFULLY edited the tape and headlined the story to make it appear gun rights advocates were heckling a poor, grieving father when IN FACT they were not, then 1) it is an underhanded thing to do and 2) there would be malice behind such a false accusation. Thus they could be said to have been “caught” doing something underhanded and called “malicious” for doing it.”

FWIW, Breitbart *himself* was accused of doing exactly the same thing, here and elsewhere, not so long ago. If I had the time, I’d go back, find Jay’s entries from that time and then see which conservative regulars here *defended* Breitbart or said the same things I am, e.g. ‘it could have been an accident’ and ‘how do you know it was malicious.’

“Point taken. Breitbart is biased and not always right. But that doesn’t mean they are always wrong or do not make valid criticisms (regardless of their tone).”

More than biased, Breitbart and his associates have been caught more than once doing exactly what they’re decrying here. I suppose it could be said that it takes an unethical, partisan film editor to know an unethical, partisan film editor. That said, the nugget of the criticism is not invalidated thereby. Clearly the tape *was* edited, but the reasons and choices behind the actual editing itself are as yet unknown to us. Thus my discomfort over the tone taken by the Breitbart team in pointing it out.

bigbill

January 30th, 2013
1:33 pm

Excellent article, Jay. This Georgia tax-funded private-school scholarship program is indeed “shrouded in guile and deception.” What is happening out of sight and behind the curtain where the real financial levers are being pulled is the huge monetary support being supplied to this ALEC- inspired tax-funded private-school scholarship movement in states across the country by extreme right-wing Republican billionaire ideologues like Betsy Devos. Her front group, the American Federation For Children (AFC), is working very hard to dismantle the very concept of traditional, universal public school education in America. Privatizing public schools for the benefit of for-profit education companies is one goal of AFC. And funneling taxpayer funds to private religious schools is very much another priority. (It is no coincidence that the featured speaker for the next AFC annual conference in DC will be the Roman Catholic Cardinal of Washington, DC. See this AFC announcement:

http://www.federationforchildren.org/articles/749)

And finally how outrageous it is for these wealthy, right-wing proponents of taxpayer funds for private schools (including religious schools) to so often couch their proposals as being for the purpose of uplifting children out of poverty. These are the same folks who bitterly oppose food stamps, unemployment compensation, Obamacare, etc. as being socialistic. Why just two days ago, the New York Times published a front-page story about Representative Eric Cantor, “GOP’s Cantor Looking Past Politics of Debt,” in which Cantor proclaims that the GOP should be focusing on getting traction for some of it’s other top priorities, “a second softer track,” if they are going to agree on extending the debt ceiling. What would that track be? “Notably, that track will include a new push for private-school vouchers for underprivileged children…” Right.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
1:35 pm

Towncrier — “Well, that is just the rub. Everyone uses roads because it is impractical or even impossible not to.”

New Yorkers say “huh?” :D

“The same cannot be said of public education. And there is a legitimate argument to be made that parents should not have to fund a program that does not serve them well (or at all). I, for one, think competition in the market place is a good thing.”

I have no problem with there *being* market-based alternatives from which parents may freely choose, but I think that the alternative of a free, public education should remain available to all.

captguitarman

January 30th, 2013
1:35 pm

Great column. It was conceived as a scam, and it is a scam . . . if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. A really big clue that is is a scam is that the legislators made it illegal for state officials to talk about how it all works — pretty obvious, and just so “Gold Dome.”

It was an obvious bone to taxpayers of means (let’s face it, Pub/Con voters) who support the local public schools, that they do not use, with their property taxes. Just giving them a little something back for paying for the public education of others while sending their own kids to private schools and not burdening the system.

In the whole Karma of things, not an outrageous moral offense or failing, but that doesn’t make it right. It may take a long time to bring full transparency and to chase the bi-partisan “jes’ good ol’ boys doin’ bidness” culture out of the Gold Dome. This kind of reporting and commentary are slowly but surely having a positive impact. A bill has been passed to bring transparency and accountability to the scholarship system, and hopefully, some version of it will pass.

Now, if we can start seeing some real progress in preventing the lobbyist influence-buying under the Dome. Bills have been brought in both houses that need a lot of work, but both are steps in the right direction.

Christian Conservative

January 30th, 2013
1:44 pm

Common Sense isn’t very Common

CC

so if I lived in the same area as you I could redirect any money for police and fire protection away from the community?

We are talking about tax dollars for education… Obviously common sense is not your strong suit….

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 30th, 2013
1:45 pm

Ahhhh, I see. SO TC can refer to Heller to refute arguments by others that may not agree with Heller but then he claims that he disagrees with Heller.

Point of Complete Buffoonery to TC. That is probably the match when considering all of his posts of buffoonery. :roll:

SouthernGent

January 30th, 2013
1:47 pm

Here we go again, hypocritical liberals who demand no accountable for folks on the government dole screaming if they think there might be one chance in a thousand that a tax paying citizen might get a break on the cost to send their kid to school. Of course you have no proof of abuse, only assumptions, but we know that never stops Jay. Now why would they want to do that, could it be because the school they support via their taxes for the most part suck or that the schools suck because there are so many there who don’t want to be there.

Get over it!

Jackie

January 30th, 2013
1:49 pm

Support of government functions are the basis for our tax contributions.
Government has the responsibility to provide public education to all citizens, funded by taxes paid by all.
If one chooses to educate their children in a private environment, the public contribution – taxes – should not be offered.
Public schools have the responsibility to educate all; private schools have the ability to turn away those that do not meet a “criteria” formulated by the private school(s).

catlady

January 30th, 2013
1:49 pm

I have screamed about this since its inception. It is astounding that those who cry for personal responsibility don’t see this as…NOT. And of course, the state of GA is so well off that it doesn’t need the 50 million a year. I mean, our roads are in great shape, and everything for the public is hunky-dory, right?

Bizzaro For More Guns -- Me Like Shiny Things

January 30th, 2013
1:49 pm

If I had the time, I’d go back, find Jay’s entries from that time and then see which conservative regulars here *defended* Breitbart or said the same things I am, e.g. ‘it could have been an accident’ and ‘how do you know it was malicious.’

Shirley Sherrod hack job and ALL of them.

Oooh look shiny!

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
1:49 pm

“More than biased, Breitbart and his associates have been caught more than once doing exactly what they’re decrying here. I suppose it could be said that it takes an unethical, partisan film editor to know an unethical, partisan film editor. That said, the nugget of the criticism is not invalidated thereby. Clearly the tape *was* edited, but the reasons and choices behind the actual editing itself are as yet unknown to us. Thus my discomfort over the tone taken by the Breitbart team in pointing it out.”

Breitbart is biased. But I think the Sherrod case might be the only instance of “unethical, partisan” editing. We will see what the outcome of the defamation suit is. It sure smacks of the same sort of thing. The ACORN videos, while skewed, were nonetheless partially accurate – there were real improprieties being uncovered.

I have less problem with sites like Breitbart or the HP being biased. They don’t pretend to be otherwise. That is NOT true of older, tradition “mainline” media organizations like NBC. So when they get “caught” doing underhanded things, it is (IMO) doubly objectionable – first, for lying about a story and second for pretending they are objective on top of it all.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
1:54 pm

“Ahhhh, I see. SO TC can refer to Heller to refute arguments by others that may not agree with Heller but then he claims that he disagrees with Heller.”

No, Sherlock. It was to suggest that before a liberal could actually fulfill his or her desire to ban all guns, he or she would first need to overturn Heller.

But, hey, keep up the stupidity. You are doing a good job. ;-)

Bizzaro For More Guns -- Me Like Shiny Things

January 30th, 2013
2:00 pm

Breitbart is biased. But I think the Sherrod case might be the only instance of “unethical, partisan” editing.

Even Bizzaro think your statement is………

Can Bizarro say bullsh##t on blog? Can Bizarro call what little big head man said bullsh##t if it really is bullsh##t that little big head man made up?

Bizarro confused — Bizarro know that what man said is Bullsh##t but how he say without hurting little big head man small feelings?

Bizarro knoW!

Little big head man — you big head liar.

Bizarro KNEW he could do it!!

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
2:02 pm

“New Yorkers say “huh?”

People who don’t imagine New Yorkers never at any time use roads say “huh”? ;-)

“I have no problem with there *being* market-based alternatives from which parents may freely choose, but I think that the alternative of a free, public education should remain available to all.”

You are not alone. But I think that is a form of double taxation, and it “corrals” parents into using public education because they cannot afford to pay double what everyone else is paying for their kids schooling – in effect, taking away their free choice. It seems what you are okay with is only the wealthy having an “alternative” – something I should think runs counter to your ideology. Would you have a problem in theory – whoever things must be ordered to ensure it is affordable or available to all – with privatizing all education?

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
2:05 pm

“Can Bizarro say bullsh##t on blog? Can Bizarro call what little big head man said bullsh##t if it really is bullsh##t that little big head man made up?”

ROFL. It would appear the village idiot is out and about.

Jackie

January 30th, 2013
2:06 pm

If were to look closely at the education efficiency of other countries of the world, it is apparent that our education system is not as bad as has been perceived.

http://www.greatschools.org/students/academic-skills/1075-u-s-students-compare.gs?page=2

n

January 30th, 2013
2:06 pm

Something has changed in the past 10 years in GA.
The politicians now take great pride in shameless, brazen, bald-faced lies to the citizenry.
Of course the Democrats lied to us during their tenure in control of the state. But their legislating was at least more subtle and circumspect. You had to have a pretty high I.Q. and a high level of familiarity with the legislative process and arcane legal language to realize the public was being hoodwinked. And the Democrats occasionally did something productive & beneficial for the citizens.

The current crop of Republicans are grotesquely transparent in their use and misuse of power.
They consider us all idiots or sheep, who are too stupid to realize we are constantly being bamboozled and manipulated. The Charter School Amendment campaign was a perfect example of lies and deceit by our own government to influence the vote. Many people saw through it, and realized that it was just a ploy to privatize public education and line the pockets of out-of-state “educational industry” corporations, but because of the non-stop broadcasting of outright lies and misinformation, it passed.
These people have no shame, and they are turning this state into a banana republic, where the peasants are forced to subsidize the ruling class.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
2:16 pm

Towncrier — “Breitbart is biased. But I think the Sherrod case might be the only instance of “unethical, partisan” editing.”

Nope. Guess who’s been working with the Breitbart crew of late? James O’Keefe and the Gang Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight.

“We will see what the outcome of the defamation suit is. It sure smacks of the same sort of thing. The ACORN videos, while skewed, were nonetheless partially accurate – there were real improprieties being uncovered.”

For that matter, so’s the edited testimony shown by MSNBC.

FWIW, you really seem to have a blind spot about this. You’re ready to forgive (and you don’t even seem aware of) potential offenses on your own side, yet you seem quick to presume the worst about potential offenses on the other side.

“I have less problem with sites like Breitbart or the HP being biased. They don’t pretend to be otherwise.”

Breitbart did, when he was still living. So does James O’Keefe. Careful, TC. As much lying down with dogs as you’re doing, you’re likely to arise with fleas.

“That is NOT true of older, tradition “mainline” media organizations like NBC. So when they get “caught” doing underhanded things, it is (IMO) doubly objectionable – first, for lying about a story and second for pretending they are objective on top of it all.”

I really think you could stand to look more closely at the “media” you’re defending.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
2:18 pm

New York Times: “Charter Schools Tied to Turkey Grow in Texas”

“Operating under the name Harmony Schools, Cosmos has moved quickly to become the largest charter school operator in Texas, with 33 schools receiving more than $100 million a year in TAXPAYER (emphasis added) funds.”

“The charter school movement associated with Turkish Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen is under federal investigation ………… Fethullah Gulen is a Turkish Islamic cleric who fled his native country in 1998, after being charged with seeking to overthrow the secular Turkish government. He currently lives in exile at a 28-acre mountain complex in the Pocono Mountains, with more than $25 billion of
assets at his command. The 135 charter schools associated with the Gulen Movement (GM) enroll more than 45,000 students and comprise the largest charter school network in the United States — all of which are fully funded by American taxpayers. Fethullah Gulen has been under investigation by the government since 2011.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/education/07charter.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/arnold-ahlert/stealth-islamist-charter-schools-under-investigation/

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
2:26 pm

Towncrier — “You are not alone. But I think that is a form of double taxation”

Excuse me just a moment.

Personally, I think that the notion of “double taxation” is one of the most pathetically ignorant arguments that modern conservatives have managed to promulgate. Just as a point of reference, if you’d like me to take your position seriously, find a way to articulate it without using that term or notion, okay?

“and it “corrals” parents into using public education because they cannot afford to pay double what everyone else is paying for their kids schooling – in effect, taking away their free choice.”

By your logic, public transportation prevents people from buying cars and Medicare prevents the elderly from buying more comprehensive health insurance policies. Shouldn’t individuals take their financial circumstances into account when planning how or when to have kids? Aren’t you the one who recommends that single women think long and hard about what might happen *before* they have sex? Respectfully, I don’t think you have much of an interest in “free choice” in this regard at all; I think you simply want to cast education to market forces and aren’t particularly concerned with where it might wind up.

“It seems what you are okay with is only the wealthy having an “alternative” – something I should think runs counter to your ideology.”

You think incorrectly. Home schooling is a choice available to all, even the poor. And FWIW, I expect that those individuals who rag incessantly on public schools never bother to think about whether or not *their* chosen policies would entirely *deprive* poor children of an education in the first place.

“Would you have a problem in theory – whoever things must be ordered to ensure it is affordable or available to all – with privatizing all education?”

I would have a major problem with that, yes.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
2:29 pm

Jay:

To your knowledge are any Muslims schools in the State of Georgia receiving taxpayer funds ?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
2:29 pm

Excuse me: “Muslim”

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
2:31 pm

“Nope. Guess who’s been working with the Breitbart crew of late? James O’Keefe and the Gang Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight.”

I am afraid I am going to have to ask for evidence. I went to the Wiki site to see what charges of unethical editing have been brought against Breitbart. Sherrod is the only case (of the two mentioned) I saw that might be a slam dunk.

“For that matter, so’s the edited testimony shown by MSNBC.”

I beg your pardon? Was Heslin being heckled or not (as REPORTED)?

“FWIW, you really seem to have a blind spot about this. You’re ready to forgive (and you don’t even seem aware of) potential offenses on your own side, yet you seem quick to presume the worst about potential offenses on the other side.”

It’s more that I am not aware of. But, please, provide evidence as I request above.

“Careful, TC. As much lying down with dogs as you’re doing, you’re likely to arise with fleas.”

And now, I think you are clearly showing your emotional bias.

“I really think you could stand to look more closely at the “media” you’re defending.”

I am not “defending” clearly partisan conservative media sources. But I think it is stupid to dismiss out of hand anything they report as being invalid (as a number of people do here). I read partisan liberal sites as well, because I know full well that liberals are not always wrong and “catch” conservatives doing underhanded things. I have a hard time with “sneaky” bias of media organizations that pretend to be objective and fair. That, IMO, is much worse that some clearly partisan hack skewing a story. The latter is almost predictable; the former is nefarious.

GT

January 30th, 2013
2:31 pm

GT , I don’t know, don’t look at the party affiliation on the ballot.

In this state that is pretty easy. If he is white male and over 40 he is a Republican. Of course they can’t call it like that, on the ballet which is the reason they invented the word Republican. It tells you all you need to know.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
2:32 pm

Just asking since you chose to single out a Christian School.

While your at it ………… how about Jewish schools.

And please list things they teach (Jewish/Muslim schools) that you disagree with including any Jihad issues regarding Muslim schools).

Regnad Kcin

January 30th, 2013
2:33 pm

Mr. Digits – I thought I remembered a post where you seemed in favor of tax-supported religious schools. Did I mis-remember?

GT

January 30th, 2013
2:48 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801 who knows for some reason Jewish and Muslim don’t get much support with the law like these Christian schools do. I can promise you that there is nothing going on with Muslims anywhere in this country that is kept secret by even the state government and if the Jewish people could educate our kid half as well as they educate their own we could solve this illiterate reputation Georgia has in five minutes. Most of these Christian Schools are just teaching them how to be dumb in all white classes, which the exception of a few athletes they let in for the sport of it.

Towncrier

January 30th, 2013
3:02 pm

“Personally, I think that the notion of “double taxation” is one of the most pathetically ignorant arguments that modern conservatives have managed to promulgate. Just as a point of reference, if you’d like me to take your position seriously, find a way to articulate it without using that term or notion, okay?”

And excuse me just a moment.

Tell me how you really feel. I am not here parroting what “modern conservatives” have said about this question with respect to education; double taxation is merely a phrase that popped into my head as I was writing as a means to express the idea one is paying twice for a service. That’s all.

“By your logic, public transportation prevents people from buying cars and Medicare prevents the elderly from buying more comprehensive health insurance policies.”

Well, I guess it all depends upon one’s view of the role of government. I believe that most of what government provides to people in terms of services can just as well (and probably better) be provided by the private sector (with appropriate legal guidelines). That’s the difference between you and me.

“Respectfully, I don’t think you have much of an interest in “free choice” in this regard at all; I think you simply want to cast education to market forces and aren’t particularly concerned with where it might wind up.”

Actually, I know quite a bit about public education, having gone through a one year teaching internship at a secondary school. having taught in one of the best high schools in a particular state, having read a number of books and articles about the problems with public education, having also taught at the collegiate level in both state colleges and universities. I have seen firsthand what is wrong with public education. So you would be quite wrong is charging that I don’t care about choice. I am of the opinion that government run schools are deficient in ways that more money (which is not forthcoming) cannot fix. The problems are systemic and profound. I think the shortcomings of the U.S. Postal service illustrate that government simply cannot do things as well or efficiently as can the private sector. I admire and laud the changes I have seen in the USPS. I use them as much as I can and still choose to receive mailed bills to support them. But they are still bleeding tons of money. It does not represent the most bang for the buck, in my considered opinion.

“I would have a major problem with that, yes.”

Then I would say we’ve gone about a far as we can go in this discussion.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
3:08 pm

GT @ 2:48

Thank you for your reply and you would be wrong.

Private Christian schools graduate outstanding students.
Private Jewish schools graduate outstanding students.
Private Muslim schools (some not all) graduate future Jihadists.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
3:09 pm

P.S.

If you (or Jay) want to cut off any (repeat ANY) taxpayer funds for any private schools then fine ………………… stick to your guns but it should be across the board !

Christian
Jewish
Islamic
Whatever

GT

January 30th, 2013
3:28 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801 I find saying wrong things to you makes it worth waking up in the morning.

Z

January 30th, 2013
3:30 pm

No account ability, and my tax $’s are going to pay for these private schools. If my tax $’s are going to them they aren’t private and I want accountability. This is a complete scam and our legislators should be accountable for coming up with this corrupt education system that just sucks more money from Public Schools. There should be lawsuits filed for discrimination by all those not allowed in the school of their choice if they are turned down. This really is no surprise though, what can you expect from a Republican majority legislature, they lie, cheat, suppress the vote, commit voter fraud, and Gerrymander districts and promote scams on the public and call it good policy. There are many reason’s Georgia was voted the most Corrupt State in the Nation and this will be just another notch on the Republican Party belt of deceit!

dbm

January 30th, 2013
3:41 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
2:26 pm

Towncrier shouldn’t have used the phrase “double taxation”; it’s actually a combination of taxation with something else.

Whenever government moves into a field, and taxes us to pay for it, it at least reduces the possibility of private involvement in that field to some extent. (Because people who want a private solution have to pay double.) Regarding your transportation example, the existence of MARTAQ

dbm

January 30th, 2013
3:44 pm

Sorry, I hit a wrong key.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
2:26 pm

Towncrier shouldn’t have used the phrase “double taxation”; it’s actually a combination of taxation with something else.

Whenever government moves into a field, and taxes us to pay for it, it at least reduces the possibility of private involvement in that field to some extent. (Because people who want a private solution have to pay double.) Regarding your transportation example, the existence of MARTA completely prevents the existence of a private train system of the same kind.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

January 30th, 2013
3:45 pm

GT:

Good for you.

Keep your head in the sand.

Adrianne

January 30th, 2013
4:05 pm

Great article. Its good to see that some news organizations in Georgia are still doing investigative journalism. Maybe this should be referred to the Department of Justice and the Department of Education. Since there is no accountability, do we know that these funds are even going to the education of private schools? Making it a law that its a crime to request statistics is the same thing republicans did in the federal system so that gun shootings not be counted and researched. It’s time to take back our state house. Its obvious republicans can’t be trusted.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
4:09 pm

Towncrier — “I am afraid I am going to have to ask for evidence. I went to the Wiki site to see what charges of unethical editing have been brought against Breitbart. Sherrod is the only case (of the two mentioned) I saw that might be a slam dunk.”

Breitbart and James O’Keefe have had financial arrangements at least since 2009 (see fourth graf):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O‘Keefe

A close enough association, it seems, that Breitbart’s estate is the target of legal action based on O’Keefe’s actions:

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/james-okeefe-breitbart-wanted-me-get-

In fact, Breitbart was paying O’Keefe for the right of first refusal of O’Keefe’s work.

“I beg your pardon? Was Heslin being heckled or not (as REPORTED)?”

What you said: We will see what the outcome of the defamation suit is. It sure smacks of the same sort of thing. The ACORN videos, while skewed, were nonetheless partially accurate – there were real improprieties being uncovered.

What I said: For that matter, so’s the edited testimony shown by MSNBC.

What’s on the ACORN tape happened, despite being out of context. And what’s on the MSNBC tape happened, despite being out of context. And just so you know, the GAO *cleared* ACORN of any wrongdoing, so your claim that “real improprieties” were involved is quite incorrect.

“It’s more that I am not aware of. But, please, provide evidence as I request above.”

O’Keefe in the pay and service of Breitbart. That should give you a bit to work with. Why not start there?

“And now, I think you are clearly showing your emotional bias.”

Perhaps, but I don’t claim to be without any.

I am not “defending” clearly partisan conservative media sources. But I think it is stupid to dismiss out of hand anything they report as being invalid (as a number of people do here).”

And, as I’ve said, I’m doing no such thing. I’m simply not giving clearly biased commentors the weight you seem to want to give them. They might very well have a point, but IMO their rhetoric blunts the value of their criticism.

“I read partisan liberal sites as well, because I know full well that liberals are not always wrong and “catch” conservatives doing underhanded things. I have a hard time with “sneaky” bias of media organizations that pretend to be objective and fair. That, IMO, is much worse that some clearly partisan hack skewing a story. The latter is almost predictable; the former is nefarious.”

I don’t believe that MSNBC *pretends* to be objective and fair. Certainly not to the degree that, say, FNC pretends to be.

* * *

“Well, I guess it all depends upon one’s view of the role of government. I believe that most of what government provides to people in terms of services can just as well (and probably better) be provided by the private sector (with appropriate legal guidelines). That’s the difference between you and me.”

I don’t believe that the private sector has any right to be involved in the development or enforcement of those “appropriate legal guidelines.” And *that,* I think, is the difference between you and me.

“Actually, I know quite a bit about public education, having gone through a one year teaching internship at a secondary school. having taught in one of the best high schools in a particular state, having read a number of books and articles about the problems with public education, having also taught at the collegiate level in both state colleges and universities.”

Stipulated that you have significant teaching experience. How, then, does that qualify you as an authority on ‘fixing’ public education? What administrative experience do you have? Have you sat on a school board? Have you been a principal?

“I am of the opinion that government run schools are deficient in ways that more money (which is not forthcoming) cannot fix. The problems are systemic and profound.”

Detail them, please.

“I think the shortcomings of the U.S. Postal service illustrate that government simply cannot do things as well or efficiently as can the private sector.”

Are you aware of the restrictions and constraints placed on the USPS under which commercial delivery services are not obliged to labor? And perhaps could you tell me how much FedEx or UPS would charge me to deliver a letter from here to Alaska in 2 days, were such a service even available from them in the first place?

UPS, FedEx and others cherry-pick their customers. They’re also not obliged to maintain the huge pension reserves that the USPS is required to by law. Were they so burdened, I suspect you might be more sympathetic to the USPS’s position.

“Then I would say we’ve gone about a far as we can go in this discussion.”

Fair enough. Thank you for saying so.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
4:10 pm

dbm — “Regarding your transportation example, the existence of MARTA completely prevents the existence of a private train system of the same kind.”

Hmm.

Would it be fair to say, then, that the existence of AMTRAK likewise prevents the existence of a private train system of the same kind?

dbm

January 30th, 2013
4:27 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
4:10 pm

Probably, although the two cases are not perfectly parallel.

Patrick Thompson

January 30th, 2013
4:29 pm

This has always been a bad piece of legislation crafted by the people who don’t like legislation (unless it favors their children or their friends). Getting tax relief for sending children to private schools is wrong. Using poor children as human shields to hide this money is wrong. Poor, disadvantaged and handicapped children aren’t receiving these benefits or enrollment in private schools. It’s a ponzi scheme.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
4:45 pm

dbm — “Probably, although the two cases are not perfectly parallel.”

FWIW, there have been a number of attempts to start regional non-commuter rail lines, but none of them have been successful. That said, I don’t think it’s due to the existence of AMTRAK so much as it’s due to the hassle and expense of securing rights to use rail routes (they’re generally owned by rail freight companies and freight is entitled to priority passage) and the fact that Americans seem to prefer speedier service (e.g. airlines) than rail can provide.

That said, I’ve taken AMTRAK on a number of occasions, and I find it a perfectly workable alternative in some situations. My wife and I are planning to take AMTRAK’s Empire Builder (Seattle-Chicago) from end to end in the next year or two. I’ve never visited that part of the country, and while I’m not sure I want to spend a lot of time there, I’d like to at least *see* it. With Amtrak, I can sit in a glass-topped observation car and watch the mountains and wildlife pass by while enjoying a beverage. Not having to watch the road or oncoming traffic should be pluses, I think. :)

dbm

January 30th, 2013
4:57 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
4:45 pm

Workability for those who benefit is not much of an argument. The opaque, deceptive voucher system Jay wrote about is workable for the families that benefit. Corporate welfare is workable for the corporations that benefit. Hitler had workable roads, and Mussolini had workable train schedules.

Actually all these workability arguments, including the one you made, might not be so true if we look at a wide enough context and a long enough range.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 30th, 2013
5:00 pm

dbm — “Actually all these workability arguments, including the one you made, might not be so true if we look at a wide enough context and a long enough range.”

FWIW, I wasn’t trying to offer it as an argument, but as an observation.

Jay

January 30th, 2013
6:27 pm

I responded earlier, Patriot. LV=Likely Voter.

TGT

January 30th, 2013
6:57 pm

GASP!!! Imagine that! Property tax payers having a say in how their education dollars are spent! What a travesty!

Where do you libs think “state tax revenue” comes from? “Obama’s stash?!”