Political realities drive push for immigration reform
“I believe we can get it done. I’ll see you at the bill signing.”
– President George W. Bush in 2007,
expressing confidence in passage of a
major immigration reform package
———————————
Of course, the bill signing envisioned by President Bush never did take place. Opposition from within his own party quickly doomed the measure, and the relationship between Republicans and Hispanic Americans has been all downhill ever since.
In 2004, Bush attracted 44 percent of the Hispanic vote on his way to re-election. In 2008, after the demise of the immigration bill, John McCain pulled just 31 percent. Mitt Romney, whose solution to the problem was self-deportation, got 27 percent in 2012. An ever-declining percentage of a fast-growing demographic group is a long-term formula for failure, as McCain himself reminded his party Monday.
“If we continue to polarize the Latino/Hispanic vote,” the Arizona senator said on CNN, “the demographics indicate that our chances of being in the majority are minimal.”
So this week, McCain joined seven other U.S. senators — an equal mix of Republicans and Democrats — in announcing agreement on a broad, comprehensive immigration-reform package. Marco Rubio of Florida, a potential GOP presidential contender in 2016, was also among the group. And while that ought to be encouraging, the truth is that conservatives and liberals seem to have very different ideas about the details of the proposal, which at this point exists only as a vague description of principles.
The Hispanic Leadership Network, an offshoot of a major Republican SuperPAC, sent a memo to congressional Republicans this week, offering a series of friendly reminders about how to talk about immigration reform in public.
Such broad descriptive language can sidestep or paper over major policy differences, but those differences become glaringly apparent once you start putting it into legislative language of “shall” and “shall not”. In one indication of the work ahead, senators don’t expect to have an actual bill to introduce until the end of March, and even that schedule is probably optimistic.
McCain, Rubio and other prominent Republicans know that their party would be damaged permanently if it is seen to be blocking yet another effort at immigration reform. Yet a different bloc of Republicans, most of them in the House, remains committed to oppose anything that might offer amnesty or a path to citizenship for those who came here illegally.
President Obama’s strained relationship with House Republicans adds another layer of difficulty to the problem. The president is scheduled to announce his own immigration-reform package today in Nevada, which is also the home state of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Not coincidentally, the growing Latino vote has been crucial in turning Nevada from a red state to a blue state in the last two presidential elections.
Obama has promised to make immigration reform a primary goal of his second term in office, and like Reid, he’s under pressure to produce. However, he also recognizes that the pressure on Republicans is even more intense. The longer this problem remains unresolved, leaving some 10 to 12 million illegal immigrants in legal limbo, the more difficult it becomes for the GOP.
In Georgia, for example, non-white Hispanics make up an estimated 9 percent of the population, but they comprised barely 1 percent of the turnout in the 2012 election. Regardless of what happens in Washington, that second number is going to rise and rise quickly in future election cycles, and if Republicans can’t at least be competitive for that vote, things get very difficult.
– Jay Bookman
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462 comments Add your comment
Checking in after the dictator gets another 4 years
January 29th, 2013
2:14 pm
Getalife. Nice moniker. With that thinking, you need to. We need and want TWO parties. Both sides do.
Marty Huggins'
January 29th, 2013
2:14 pm
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2013
1:48 pm
Well good thing I don’t think that’s possible or have I ever asked to eliminate it.
I think we could look at it and find many solutions to greatly reduce its occurrence along with many other means by which we obtain undocumented citizens.
Suppose it’s easier to project whatever your opinion of what someone has said regardless of how wrong and misguided your opinion may be.
southpaw
January 29th, 2013
2:15 pm
Frog @1:19
At the risk of sounding harsh (hopefully not)–
A chef’s concoction rarely exists two hours after the concocting/marrying is done. Trying to do the same with people won’t work so well.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2013
2:15 pm
“a camel jockey Muslim country. Not a watered down half civil country. The cut your hand off type country”
don’t strain anything moving those goalposts
GT
January 29th, 2013
2:16 pm
Student loan defaults? How long did you have to pick in the garbage for that one. If the gun lobby keeps up their version of America, we won’t have any students to make loans to, but why worry about that when kids are getting away with a free higher education. True once educated they tend to vote Democrat, but your loose gun laws will solve that for you, not to worry.
Living With Open Eyes
January 29th, 2013
2:17 pm
Is it a requirement to be a mindless Democratbot to be a liberal?Is that any worse than being a Republizombie? I support taking care of our AMERICANS who are elderly or disabled. I support equal and fair treatment of all AMERICANS without regard to race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. I support universal healthcare for all AMERICANS. I do NOT support cheapening the lives and livelihoods of average AMERICANS, their children and grandchildren, by allowing border crossing lawbreakers to remain here. WE are wasting our time fighting wars for other countries overseas when we really need to be fighting to secure AMERICA’S borders.
Mick
January 29th, 2013
2:17 pm
morality
Interest rates at an all time LOW, stock market poised to go over 14k, exagerate much???
mm
January 29th, 2013
2:18 pm
I hope everyone sees through this GOP charade. The cons have made “securing the border” a prerequisite to allowing citizenship to the illegal immigrants.
Does anyone in their right mind think the cons willl ever say the border is secure?
They will always say Obama has not secured the border, so these people will never gain citizenship. And the cons will say they created a path for these people, but Obama failed.
Typical.
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2013
2:19 pm
“I think we could look at it and find many solutions to greatly reduce its occurrence along with many other means by which we obtain undocumented citizens”
We can spend a LOT of money trying, but we still can’t do. Build a fence, someone will make a longer ladder. Or they’ll dig under it (they already do that). How would you suggest we secure our water borders? Or secure the air over ANY of our borders? Determined people can fly in, boat in, dig in, be brought in hidden in vehicles. There’s no way we can possibly secure our borders, period. The best we can ever do is make it harder where, currently, it’s too easy and too cheap.
indigo
January 29th, 2013
2:19 pm
Towncrier – 1:50
I said Business bribed their Republican POLITICIANS.
I did not say all Businesses are run by Republicans.
Regnad Kcin
January 29th, 2013
2:19 pm
“No decibel……a camel jockey Muslim country. Not a watered down half civil country. The cut your hand off type country”
Whoo…I don’t know what to say…
I’ll just remark about the “moving goal posts.” I bet they keep moving until he gets the response he wants, or (hopefully) just slinks away…
Granny Godzilla
January 29th, 2013
2:19 pm
Checking in after the dictator gets another 4 years
January 29th, 2013
2:11 pm
No decibel……a camel jockey Muslim country. Not a watered down half civil country. The cut your hand off type country
.
.
.
.
Goal posts hit warp speed!
Checking in after the dictator gets another 4 years
January 29th, 2013
2:19 pm
GT………… where do criminals turn their guns in . Is there a Web site?
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2013
2:20 pm
“They will always say Obama has not secured the border, so these people will never gain citizenship”
And that’s the whole point. They KNOW we can never fully secure our borders, so they will ALWAYS have that excuse to not follow through on needed immigration reforms.
indigo
January 29th, 2013
2:21 pm
Living – 2:17
Do you think only conservatives share your beliefs?
If so, you’re wrong.
Living With Open Eyes
January 29th, 2013
2:23 pm
Indigo I hope not because I sure do not agree with most of their self serving agenda.
mm
January 29th, 2013
2:24 pm
” WE are wasting our time fighting wars for other countries overseas when we really need to be fighting to secure AMERICA’S borders.”
I totally agree that we are wasting time (and lives) fighting overseas. However, the number of deportations has increased dramatically under Obama. The cons talk about building walls, moats, and electric fences. The’re willing to spend billions of dollars to do this and yet want to starve children and grandma. We’ll end up like China (the Great Wall).
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
2:24 pm
Decibels —”Jammy Codder built houses for poor people”. Problem is you only know of the revised history edition of Jammy Codder. He tore down a lot more houses poor people were living in and NEVER built a house for a poor person. Your version is an ole Wives Tale. I was going to college in Americus (near Plains) when Jammy Codder was running for Prez. He had poor people living in shacks without plumbing on his farm land working for him. When the Dems decided to run Jammy as the next Abe Lincoln that image would not do. So the shacks and workers had to go…. quietly in the night everything was torn down and they were moved OUT. Habitat for Humanity was long in existence before Jammy decided, for political reasons, to claim it. He was quick to call the press and hold the hammer for his photo ops but that was as far as his building houses ever went. Jammy Codder is a MYTH – I knew the real Jammy Codder and he is NO Abraham Lincoln.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 29th, 2013
2:24 pm
Well McCain did make a slight concession:
“We have to work with the governors and the organizations and citizens on the border states that are the major victims of the broken borders,” Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) added. He also admitted that “There is no question, there has been a significant reduction in illegal crossings over the past five years.” Indeed, the United States spent $18 billion on immigration enforcement in the 2012 fiscal year, which is more than every other federal law enforcement agency combined.
Also:
Border crossings are at 40-year low: At the same time, illegal border crossings have dropped to their lowest level since the Nixon administration, and net undocumented migration is at or below zero. Meanwhile, annual deportations at a historic high.
– Most parts of the border are already secure: Even with fewer people apprehended at the border, border agents now patrol every single mile of the border every day. The vast majority of the border already meets one of Homeland Security’s highest standards of security, and there are 21,370 agents, along with six unmanned aircraft systems.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
2:26 pm
M. Huggins — “However something must be done to address the issue of more people coming into our country undocumented by securing all of our borders and the processes we use to identify who is here and when that are non citizens.”
FWIW, I don’t think we can ever perform a *complete* physical closure of all our borders. I just don’t think it’s practical, even with technological tools. That said, I think we can make it less desirable to come here or stay here by securing our labor markets and our public welfare system.
Look, it’s a common conservative assertion that illegals generally come here for public assistance and for work, right? What if there was no way to get a job *unless* you could prove your citizenship or residency beyond a shadow of a doubt? And what if Social Security and Medicare cards were impossible to forge? Wouldn’t that discourage attempts to covertly immigrate?
Marty Huggins'
January 29th, 2013
2:26 pm
Doggone/GA
January 29th, 2013
2:19 pm
Again I don’t think we can stop it!
We can reduce it greatly.
We may disagree about the level but you even agree not enough is being done….
“The best we can ever do is make it harder where, currently, it’s too easy and too cheap.”
Nah I see its still easier to claim someone is crying because…. Ghast they disagree with you about an amount of how much should be done.
alex
January 29th, 2013
2:29 pm
@living.., Bloggers demonize the opposing view because it is too uncomfortable for them to consider their own inadequacies and they are too lazy to consider the merits of any other position. Overall this blog, led by Jay is consumed by laziness. It is our job to infuse a work (thinking) ethic into this moribound collection of ragtag political neophytes….onward man..and good luck…!!!
Granny…Yer up, send that 3 word zinger thru the ether onto our electromagnetic screens of azur…
St Simons - aboriginal
January 29th, 2013
2:29 pm
there’s two sides to a fence/wall.
What is sold to the rubes as a way to keep people out
could at some point be used to keep people in.
no fences, mon
Brosephus™
January 29th, 2013
2:31 pm
I see the old trusty “secure the border” argument has been made quite a few times. Has anybody yet said they’re willing to give up their personal freedoms, pay more for goods and services, and pay more in taxes to accomplish that yet?
Marty Huggins'
January 29th, 2013
2:33 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
2:26 pm
I would like to clear something up.
Apparently I gave the impression I think or want the boarders completely secured and it closed.
Well I don’t. I do think much much more could be done and not all on just boarders. I think we should keep better track of who is here and when they leave and on what type of visa or work permit travel or whatever to ensure we cut back on the amount to simply overstay their documented time frame.
Lastly I do not believe in your proposition of what conservatives
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2013
2:33 pm
Rational Recovering Republican SHEETZ.
Brosephus™
January 29th, 2013
2:34 pm
Keep @ 2:24
Where do you think that Wisconsin wedding drone came from. Homeland Security babee!!!!!
Towncrier
January 29th, 2013
2:34 pm
“That is the biggest crock I’ve read from you in a long time TC. Was Reagan a part of the unprincipled lot when he signed the amnesty bill?”
Yes. It was not HIS bill, but he signed it. Amnesty has been shown to (counter productively) increase illegal immigration. It is dumb. One should never reward bad behavior. Instead, one should incentivize good behavior.
“Fact is it’s businesses that make it possible for illegal aliens to live here not liberals. Its the holier than thou crowd in the suburbs that hire them to mow their lawns, take care of their kids, hire for day labor and eat the food they harvest, and visit the restaurants they work in.”
I don’t do that. And I don’t know many that do. I agree that many on the right are out and out hypocrites, espousing principles they do not uphold. But many liberals don’t support those principles. They are not being hypocritical; they are being unprincipled.
“Then you bring in adultery to the conversation as if it is just another liberal thing, ignoring the fact that the Baptist church is filled with members that have committed adultery. How else can you account for the outrageous divorce numbers that plague the Baptist church?”
Not the act itself, but its decriminalization. Hypocrites versus the unprincipled. I believe God says woe to hypocrites as well as woe to those who call evil good and good evil.
stands for decibels
January 29th, 2013
2:34 pm
Has anybody yet said they’re willing to give up their personal freedoms, pay more for goods and services, and pay more in taxes to accomplish that yet?
Is a bear Catholic?
headin’ upstairs…
Marty Huggins'
January 29th, 2013
2:35 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
2:26 pm
I would like to clear something up.
Apparently I gave the impression I think or want the boarders completely secured and it closed.
Well I don’t. I do think much much more could be done and not all on just boarders. I think we should keep better track of who is here and when they leave and on what type of visa or work permit travel or whatever to ensure we cut back on the amount to simply overstay their documented time frame.
Lastly I do not believe in your proposition of what conservatives feel is the reason they are here.
They are here for a better life. That is why all of our ancestors came here and why millions continue to come here. A chance at a better life.
And I am a conservative. But capable of thinking for myself and not held liable to what other conservatives may or may not say. And honestly it would be unfair to as or for me to attempt to argue what they have said.
the cat
January 29th, 2013
2:35 pm
A total lie:
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
2:24 pm
Decibels —”Jammy Codder built houses for poor people”. Problem is you only know of the revised history edition of Jammy Codder. He tore down a lot more houses poor people were living in and NEVER built a house for a poor person. Your version is an ole Wives Tale. I was going to college in Americus (near Plains) when Jammy Codder was running for Prez. He had poor people living in shacks without plumbing on his farm land working for him. When the Dems decided to run Jammy as the next Abe Lincoln that image would not do. So the shacks and workers had to go…. quietly in the night everything was torn down and they were moved OUT. Habitat for Humanity was long in existence before Jammy decided, for political reasons, to claim it. He was quick to call the press and hold the hammer for his photo ops but that was as far as his building houses ever went. Jammy Codder is a MYTH – I knew the real Jammy Codder and he is NO Abraham Lincoln.
Erwin's cat
January 29th, 2013
2:38 pm
I did not say all Businesses are run by Republicans
just the profitable ones
Erwin's cat
January 29th, 2013
2:40 pm
Is a bear Catholic?
Ha!
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
2:42 pm
Mick _ Ignorance precedes you – The reason interest are so low is BECAUSE we are on the edge of the Great “D” II of 2013…… you know the FISCAL CLIFF that no one has a plan to stop. If interest were raised now the INTEREST rate on the $16,000,000,000,000 + Fed debt would increase throwing YOU over the FISCAL CLIFF that much faster. The stock market is going up because interest are so low on CD’s and bonds and real estate is a disaster. there is no where else to invest but GOLD and precious metals that are now over valued. The stock market is the last resort. The market is rising from the deep losses it has absorbed but is far from it’s all time high. This rise in the stock market is a sucker play however as those fleeing to the market will be crushed by the health care bubble (which is the only sector still going up because it is propped up financially through gub’ment dollars) The Social Security System is the greatest PONZI scheme of all time. The final mother of all bubbles will be the GREAT BOND BUBBLE as the gub’ment will default on loans from Japan and China and you will still get your check in the mail from Obama but the banks will stamp on it INSUFFICIENT FUNDS and the gub’ment’s CREDIT CARD will be MAXED out. HAVE A NICE DAY (smiley face copyright applied for)
Marty Huggins'
January 29th, 2013
2:42 pm
Brosephus™
January 29th, 2013
2:31 pm
Yes on everything except personal freedoms.
Don’t necessarily see how those have to be violated to greatly reduce the number of undocumented citizens?
Or we could grant any amnesty program or platform you choose and we will be having the exact same conversation again in 15-20 years about what to do with the latest group of undocumented residents.
td
January 29th, 2013
2:44 pm
So Kasim Reed flies all the way to LV to to hear Obama speak about Immigration reform. I wonder how much that is costing the city of Atlanta for a political trip or will he have some other reason to go to LV?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
2:48 pm
M. Huggins — “Apparently I gave the impression I think or want the boarders completely secured and it closed. Well I don’t. I do think much much more could be done and not all on just boarders. I think we should keep better track of who is here and when they leave and on what type of visa or work permit travel or whatever to ensure we cut back on the amount to simply overstay their documented time frame.”
Fair enough. Much of the plan that we sometimes discuss is predicated on securing our labor markets and the privileges that we extend to citizens by means of some sort of national identity document (e.g. a high-tech national ID card). I suggested at one time that resident aliens could be given similar cards, but that theirs wouldn’t entitle them to vote or to receive public assistance. The cards could also serve as work-authorization documents, for those aliens who have formal authorization.
Something like this would take years to implement, though. and it wouldn’t be cheap to do.
Paul
January 29th, 2013
2:49 pm
Marty Huggins 1:47
“Don’t be so quick to answer for others”
How is asking a question or predicting an answer ‘answering for others?”
Lance 2007
” The problem that I see is the pressure that will undoubtedly be applied by constituents like in 2007″
That’ll come. I don’t think it’ll happen as people read what’s offered and then think about it. Let’s just say they’ll get the interpretation… elsewhere. It’s up to us to write our Congressmen and urge them to ignore the echo chambers and to get out of their partisan comfort zones.
You’re the only one so far who’s responded. My experience here is people who object to something, when asked for a solution, remain silent. Appears to have happened again.
Last I checked, the influx has dropped dramatically and the estimated population in the US is also down.
Having said that, there’s much in the rest of your response that’s reasonable and will likely be in the final proposal.
Brosephus™
January 29th, 2013
2:49 pm
Don’t necessarily see how those have to be violated to greatly reduce the number of undocumented citizens?
The way the border is set up, we make it as easy as possible for goods and people to cross with as little delay as possible. This helps our “just in time” business model since most major companies have gone away from warehousing goods. You also have major companies that will send a worker here for 2 days for meetings and such.
If we tighten down the border to the point where it’s “secure”, you’re going to see America look like the old East Germany where you’re likely to be stopped and have your “papers” checked every 30 steps. Instead of being able to land on a plane and leave the airport within 10-20 minutes of arrival, you’re likely going to be in the airport for hours to clear immigration and customs. Upon completing a cruise, you won’t be able to just walk off the ship as you’ll have to clear a tighter immigration policy.
That’s what I meant by giving up personal freedoms. This I know first hand as I do this stuff for a living.
Mick
January 29th, 2013
2:52 pm
morality
Hey your the one who compared him to jimmy carter, not me. Social security is no where close to a ponzi scheme, more like one of the best programs ever conceived! In a ponzi scheme you run out of people at the bottom but in social security each new generation fulfills the promise for their elders. One day (god willing) you will be that elderly person who has worked and earned your social security. That was easy…and by the way the debt is actually starting to decrease as more people are employed, that’s the real key here to cut the debt – employment! If only the obstructionists in the house would cooperate…
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
2:54 pm
Cat – Knew I would hurt some feelings on the Jammy Codder MYTH but I am telling the TRUTH. His son married my sister’s best friend (now divorced). Chip was in class with me temporarily at Georgia Southwestern in Americus but he wasn’t there for long – got caught selling illegal “stay awake” pills called “white crosses” to students so they could stay awake to study for finals. I heard the the TRUE history of Jammy Codder from the CAT’s mouth……. yes, his own family and upon hearing this I went to witness the tearing down of the shacks whose residents had vanished in to the night. Jammy Codder is a MYTH.
Towncrier
January 29th, 2013
2:58 pm
“The fact of the matter isn’t that we consider such things, as you say, “NO BIG DEAL,” it’s just that we’re not losing our collective mind about it. We *see* the problem. We *agree* that there’s a problem. But we *differ* on what to do about it and how to get there; it’s as simple as that.”
I have discussed immigration reform with you before, JHM. And I think probably the two of us would could agree on a common sense solution. But what I think you fail to realize (and probably what I fail to realize) is that you and I are not a typical liberal and conservative. From what all I read, listening to many liberals, I think that they really make little of the fact that millions of people have illegally and immorally entered our country ahead of those trying to do it the proper way. It really bothers me. Principles really matter. On the other hand, I know there are a LOT of conservative politician and talking heads that place undue emphasis upon “securing the borders” and not nearly enough emphasis upon taking away the incentive for people to come here (in agreement with your point). They are advocating untenable solutions to problems that have not proven to be cost effective. That bothers me as well (and probably is the BIGGEST reason the GOP is in such trouble).
“Further, about two weeks ago, you berated Jay for what you called mocking and belittling comments about pro-gun individuals, yet here you are, doing the exact same thing yourself — last night about atheists in general and today about liberals in particular.”
I don’t think he was “mocking” anyone and neither certainly was I (as Towncrier). I was expressing my honest beliefs. I will stipulate that many atheists strive to be “moral” in some fashion (you included). But a number do not. And, were I to be an atheist, I would fall into the latter camp – like Dostoevsky apparently would have. To me, that is simply a better logical expression of atheism. I would see no compelling reason to be moral – only to act moral when needed as a form of self preservation (until such time I no longer desired to live and then would end it all).
getalife
January 29th, 2013
3:01 pm
Historic speech.
“Most of us used to be them”
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
3:01 pm
Brosephus — “You also have major companies that will send a worker here for 2 days for meetings and such.”
As you know, I used to travel and consult. And one company I worked for used a *lot* of Canadian employees. Every January, when new laws kicked in, there’d be a week or two when most or all of our Canuckian employees would get stopped at the border while the INS guys figured out the details of the new rules. Sometimes it only took an hour or two. One year, the two toque-wearers on my team didn’t get to the jobsite until Wednesday evening.
RB from Gwinnett
January 29th, 2013
3:01 pm
“Obama hasn’t done it yet, but he’s not done, yet, either”
YouTube video.
Next…
Regnad Kcin
January 29th, 2013
3:02 pm
” Jammy Codder is a MYTH.”
And what terrible things have you heard about the “Carter Center,” and about HfH recently? Are those a sham? Do you have links?
Lance from Carrollton
January 29th, 2013
3:02 pm
Paul
January 29th, 2013
2:49 pm
Paul, I think a main problem on here is the ad hominem attacks. When I addressed Jay about him leaving out that 15 members of the majority party broke rank and joined the minority he immediatly accused me of one being a member of the GOP;which I did not state, but I am. It was backlash from conservative outlets and calls to congress that caused the bill to fail.
Regnad Kcin
January 29th, 2013
3:03 pm
” Jammy Codder is a MYTH.”
You got anything other that self-admitted gossip? Any links?
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
3:06 pm
Mick – I do know and have studied the Social Security system. You are correct to say that Social Security is paid in to by the beneficiaries – it is not a hand out from the gub’ment……. there are some exceptions to this that I won’t get in to here because some checks received (millions of dollars) were never paid in by the recipients. By PONZI scheme I mean that there will soon be more dollars going out than coming in. The population will be “top heavy” with more receiving dollars than paying in due to the aging population. And another little situation I must mention – the Congress has raided the S.S. to pay for other social programs. There is no great fund of money being saved up for later payments. What comes in goes out. Do you understand what I am saying? There is no nest egg built up and stored in the bank to pay out. It has been illegally spent on wasteful gub’ment. We have been robbed! With a PONZI scheme enough money has to b collected to pay out orit will collapse. Thus S.S. is a great PONZI scheme ’cause the Congress raided the funds.
getalife
January 29th, 2013
3:07 pm
“We need and want TWO parties. Both sides do.”
I am for more parties.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
3:07 pm
Towncrier — “From what all I read, listening to many liberals, I think that they really make little of the fact that millions of people have illegally and immorally entered our country ahead of those trying to do it the proper way. It really bothers me. Principles really matter.”
I recognize that, and I (and most liberals I know) don’t reject that notion. The prevailing complaint I hear most often from liberal quarters is that conservatives make the illegosos into the bad guys while not pressing harder to make those who *employ* them pay a serious price. A common analogy I hear is that an illegoso is like a drug user, while an employer who looks the other way when an illegoso asks for a job is like the drug *pusher.* In the grand scheme of things, who’s more dangerous? The guy with an ounce of weed or the guy selling weed, special K, oxycontin, meth, heroin and X on your streetcorner? From where I’m standing, liberals want the solution to start at the *other* end of the chain; e.g. jail some employers and watch other employers start to straighten up.
“On the other hand, I know there are a LOT of conservative politician and talking heads that place undue emphasis upon “securing the borders” and not nearly enough emphasis upon taking away the incentive for people to come here (in agreement with your point). They are advocating untenable solutions to problems that have not proven to be cost effective. That bothers me as well (and probably is the BIGGEST reason the GOP is in such trouble).”
Agreed.
“And, were I to be an atheist, I would fall into the latter camp – like Dostoevsky apparently would have. To me, that is simply a better logical expression of atheism. I would see no compelling reason to be moral – only to act moral when needed as a form of self preservation (until such time I no longer desired to live and then would end it all).”
We need to have an extended discussion on the utility of morality in the lives of atheists, you and I. I sincerely think you would find it eye-opening.
Brosephus™
January 29th, 2013
3:08 pm
JHM
Been there, done that, and I have the uniform as proof!!!
Immigration law is so complex, some piecemeal half-assed effort will not solve our problems. More than likely, the system will get screwed up even more.
Mick
January 29th, 2013
3:10 pm
morality
Fine….but we the people will demand to be first in line to be paid, all other creditors get in line…still it won’t have to come to that with a few simple fixes – raising the cap for starters. Then, after the baby boomers are extinct, things will level out for future recipients, so…the next 30 years or so just need to be bridged…
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
3:12 pm
Kcin – Can’t link a scandal hidden by the left. It’s been long dead and buried and the witnesses that lived in the shacks- mostly long dead too. I saw it – no rumor. Politicians will do anything to get elected, stay elected and stay in POWER. The Carter Center is funded by donations and government money to further promote the myth. Jammy Codder’s dream was to save the world with YOUR money.
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
3:17 pm
Mick – I wish you were right but the Baby Boomers will be followed by a still larger group of elderly. All this health care is making people live longer – not have a better QUALITY of life – just live longer. Did you know that 80% of all health care costs come in the last SIX MONTHS of life. Death is a big money racket. Keeping people alive a few more months costs a fortune.
Morality?
January 29th, 2013
3:19 pm
GONE TODAY – HERE TOMORROW – the TRUTH is not in D.C.
RB from Gwinnett
January 29th, 2013
3:39 pm
“smarter enforcement, a pathway to earn citizenship, improvements in the legal immigration system so that we continue to be a magnet for the best and the brightest all around the world.” –President Obama
Yea, cause we don’t already have a pathway to citizenship and the “best and the brightest” from Mexico are pouring across our border eager as hell to mow our lawns, paint our homes, and pick our crops. That’s what all the world’s “best” and “brightest” do, right libs?!!!
What a joke. It’s about getting votes and nothing more. PERIOD.
That Black Guy
January 29th, 2013
3:47 pm
In any event, what other countries do is irrelevant to the point of what *we* are doing *right now.*
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Why is it that we don’t hear this retort when the debate is healthcare or gun control?
GT
January 29th, 2013
3:56 pm
Checking in after the dictator gets another 4 years, what is the difference between a criminal and a tea party member, extortion is a crime last I looked and guns go well with this plot. I am waiting any day for a South Carolina congressman to whip out his gun and shoot a hole in the ceiling of the capital while yelling liar at the top of his lungs. You think that guy was drunk? Only explanation for being that out of control yet he can carry a gun probably had one on him at the time.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 29th, 2013
3:56 pm
TBG — “Why is it that we don’t hear this retort when the debate is healthcare or gun control?”
Because I’m using it ironically. Sometimes conservatives HATE considering how things are done in other countries and sometimes they urgently WANT us to consider how things are done in other countries. Both sides do it, and neither side is blameless in tossing that football around.
Old Goober
January 29th, 2013
4:04 pm
I can see the story line now if these conservatives get their way:
The President was two days late for the ceremony. He explained that he had been put on a “milk run” Greyhound bus as an economy measure.
JACKIE
January 30th, 2013
7:43 pm
IN 1986 WE ALLOWED 8 MILLION ILLEGALS TO BECOME OVERNIGHT CITIZENS. THE LAW PASSED BECAUSE THEY SAID WE WOULD NEVER AGAIN HAVE A PROBLEM. AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT REMEMBERS THIS?