GOP battle plan: If you can’t compete, cheat
Taking its cue from the likes of Lance Armstrong, dozens of Atlanta Public School teachers and Bernie Madoff, the Republican Party is embracing a bold new solution to its political problems:
If you can’t compete, cheat.
And cheat big.
In Virginia, for example, Barack Obama has carried the state and its 13 electoral votes in the last two elections, becoming the first Democrat to carry the state back-to-back since Franklin Roosevelt. But rather than work harder to win back the state, or adopt policies more relevant to the needs of its voters, Republicans are advancing another solution.
Under a bill passed out of a state Senate subcommittee this week, Virginia would no longer award its electoral votes to the candidate who won the most votes. Instead, the state’s electoral votes would be allocated by congressional district, which are heavily gerrymandered to favor the GOP.*
Had the bill been law in November, Barack Obama would have been awarded just four of the state’s 13 electoral votes, even though he carried the state.
Mitt Romney, who lost the state, would have won nine electoral votes, more than twice as many as the winner. As one observer put it, Virginia is in the process of moving from a winner-takes-all system to a loser-takes-most system.
The bill now moves to a Senate committee, where Republicans hold a 10-5 advantage. It would then be voted on by the entire Senate, which is split 20-20 between the parties. A tie would be broken by the lieutenant governor, a Republican. Republicans control the Virginia House and governor’s office.
But as one GOP senator assured the Richmond Times-Dispatch, “There’s no partisan ax to grind here.”
Presumably, there is also no partisan ax-grinding underway in five other large states won by Obama, where Republicans are pushing similar legislation.
The scheme is so blatant in its election-stealing intent that it has pushed Larry Sabato, the well-known and nonpartisan elections expert at the University of Virginia, to condemn it in unusually harsh terms. The plan is “a corrupt and cynical maneuver to frustrate popular will and put a heavy thumb — the whole hand, in fact — on the scale for future Republican candidates.”
(BTW, the sheer gall of this effort adds credence to Democratic claims that the GOP has been trying to game the system in other ways, such as restricting access to the ballot box.)
The Republican Party faces a choice, Sabato writes. It can choose the Reaganesque, optimistic approach, “convinced that it can win the future by embracing it.” Or it can turn to a Nixonian attitude in which “it sees enemies everywhere, feels overwhelmed by electoral trends, and thinks it can win only by cheating, by subverting the system and stacking the deck in its favor.”
Sabato also cites the work of a colleague and fellow political scientist, Alan Abramovitz of Emory University, who has studied the potential impact of the GOP scheme. As Abramovitz notes, Obama won the popular vote, and thus the electoral votes, in Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida and Wisconsin. In all six states, Republicans are eying passage of some version of the Virginia plan.
Had it been in place in 2012, Abramovitz concludes, the Virginia plan would have given Obama just 45 electoral votes in those states, while Romney would have reaped 61. And again, Obama carried all six states.
Abramovitz writes:
“Under current circumstances, the congressional district system could well result in a Republican victory even if the Democratic candidate were to win the popular vote by a substantial margin. Such a situation would undoubtedly lead to widespread questioning of the legitimacy of the election and, potentially, a public backlash against the victorious Republican candidate and the GOP itself. Before engaging in a cynical attempt to rig the electoral system, Republican leaders and strategists should consider the potential harm that their actions could do to our democratic form of government and to their own party.”
Once upon a time, such a scheme would have been unthinkable. Once upon a time, no major political party would have dared to be associated with it, because the bald-faced thievery is too obvious. Even Nixon would be appalled at the shamelessness of it all.
But in these times, Republican National Chairman Reince Priebus has publicly endorsed the election-stealing plan. “I think it’s something that a lot of states that have been consistently blue that are fully controlled red ought to be looking at,” he said this month.
Such is the desperation and moral bankruptcy of the party that he leads.
—-
*On Monday, Senate Republicans in Virginia took advantage of the fact that a Democratic colleague — a well-respected veteran of the civil rights movement — had traveled to Washington to attend the inauguration and for MLK Day observances. In his absence, they rushed through a surprise bill redrawing the state’s districts once again, to squeeze still further advantage from the system.
– Jay Bookman
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443 comments Add your comment
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:18 am
“Well, he’s always disappointed me, but glad to see Bookman’s coming around.”- Pencilneck convert
You know you’re doing something right when the pencilneck convert is disappointed.
alittlecommonsense
January 25th, 2013
9:18 am
“I’m not advocating what is going on in VA, but, wouldn’t this approach benefit the dems sometimes, the pubs others? Both sides have railed against the electoral college from time to time, according to how it would benefit them at the time. This is considered “news” only becaus the dirty rotten pubs are attempting it. Why just go to the popular vote? Then we might see attention paid to the rest of us, not just the swing states.”
I’m in the unusual position of agreeing with you except for the part about the popular vote. It’s great in theory, but what happens if we need a recount? The whole nation would have to recount. I don’t think we can handle that many hanging chads.
rightwingextreme
January 25th, 2013
9:19 am
Thomas
January 25th, 2013
8:37 am
States with highest % of gun ownership. First- it is from the internet so it has to be right…. Second fully demonstrates it is really a Southern redneck problem (if Wyoming Alaska and Montana are indeed Southern). Please Charlie Rangel come save us from ourselves- we just a bunch of retards down here in the po’ south
1. Wyoming – 59.7%
2. Alaska – 57.8%
3. Montana – 57.7%
4. South Dakota – 56.6%
5. West Virginia – 55.4%
6. Mississippi – 55.3%
6. Idaho – 55.3%
6. Arkansas – 55.3%
9. Alabama – 51.7%
10. North Dakota – 50.7%
I think you better get out a map. Six of these are not “southern states.”
You must be the product of those public schools the libs love so much. No wonder we’re in trouble.
Class of '98
January 25th, 2013
9:20 am
Jay, who urinated in your cheerios this morning? My “defense” of this is twofold: First, Dims cheat by wanting open borders to allow undocumented democrats, uh, I mean illegal aliens, to flood into the country, have babies, get on government dole, and vote blue.
Second, weren’t you pinkos whining up a storm when Gore won the popular vote? Now you’re HUGE electoral college fans, huh?
bookman parrot
January 25th, 2013
9:20 am
Jay,
Your taking this all wrong… the idea is not based on cheating for cheating sake… but on realizing everything possible needs to be done to supercede the blind foolishness of the lib voting masses who have been brainwashed by lib folks like you. there are just too many dimwits who can be BSed into voting for lib knotheads… LOL
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think.
January 25th, 2013
9:21 am
I thought gerrymandering was illegal. This article seems to say so
http://www.propublica.org/article/is-partisan-gerrymandering-unconstitutional
So why hasn’t anyone sued the offending States and taken it to court?
Mike
January 25th, 2013
9:21 am
This will stop the big city vote in these states from taking all the electoral votes. Most all of the suburban and rural residents in these states, look at things a little differently. The way it is now, in some of the northern states especially, the big city, urban voters are speaking for the entire state. How is that fair? I have always thought the electoral votes should be done the way Virginia is proposing.
mbtc
January 25th, 2013
9:21 am
98:”Second, weren’t you pinkos whining up a storm when Gore won the popular vote? Now you’re HUGE electoral college fans, huh?”
The stupid it hurts.
Paul
January 25th, 2013
9:22 am
Well, Jay, you have your first defense of the Republican effort.
Unfortunately, Class of ‘98 is as good as it’s going to get.
Stew Day
January 25th, 2013
9:23 am
to be honest Jay–why not disclose the other states who allocate their electorial votes in the same way. Nothing new here. States have their rights. They are constitutionally guaranteed. Every state could adopt the same measure. All this conservative bashing and finger pointing is going to come back to haunt the left in the next mid term election who are always 100% correct and demonizing the other side for their opposition. Its part of politics, thank god or we would be a totalitarian system.
HDB
January 25th, 2013
9:23 am
What Republicans are attempting to do in Virginia is to shift power back to the rural areas….thereby making a district with less than 200K people equivalent in power to one with 2M people…another methodology to marginalize the minority vote!! Since the demographics are changing…and NOT in the GOP’s favor, this is another idea to subjugate the will of the people!!
Virginia Democrats have already stated that they would ask the courts to address the constitutionality of this since this is occurring PRIOR to the 2020 census….and redistricting is supposed to occur only during census years!
alittlecommonsense
January 25th, 2013
9:25 am
“I honestly thought that few conservatives on this blog would try to defend this.”
Actually I don’t really care that much. Like Albany said, it would probably help one party one year, and the other another year. Sorry, I’m pretty unconcerned about it no matter which party benefits. Go out and win those state legislatures, then you can do it your way.
Richard Laupus
January 25th, 2013
9:25 am
From a NYT reader in Toronto, a limerick that nicely sums it all up:
When not out on the Trail philandering,
Repubs have time for gerrymandering.
With mirrors and smoke,
Their deeds they will cloak,
Then get on with Obama slandering.
Paul
January 25th, 2013
9:25 am
Corbin Sharpe
“So why hasn’t anyone sued the offending States and taken it to court?”
Happened right here in Texas before the last election. Republicans were in fits, thinking we could go into an election where areas that had traditionally voted for a Democratic representative might actually do so again.
mbtc
January 25th, 2013
9:26 am
“but on realizing everything possible needs to be done to supercede the blind foolishness of the lib voting masses who have been brainwashed by lib folks like you. there are just too many dimwits who can be BSed into voting for lib knotheads… LOL”
This from the party that has spent the last two decades spewing propaganda 24/7 on radio and a major cable network. The stupid it hurts.
Morality?
January 25th, 2013
9:26 am
The KING of gerrymandering was the Dem party and KING ROY and I never heard a complaint from Jay about Roy’s tactics? I am opposed to ALL gerrymandering which was INVENTED by the Dems and perfected by the Repubs. Just goes to show that being immoral can come back to haunt you. NOW that this is happening to the DEMS instead of them doing it to the Repubs it’s all of a sudden wrong? There’s is more than enough cheating going on in D.C. on a daily basis to offset anything the Repubs do. Politicians aren’t heroes – they will cheat, lie, steal or do anything else necessary to stay in office and stay in power.
TERM LIMITS for Congress.
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:27 am
“First, Dims cheat by wanting open borders to allow undocumented democrats, uh, I mean illegal aliens, to flood into the country, have babies, get on government dole, and vote blue.”
Huh. Tell me about Ronald Reagan’s amnesty plan. Tell me about Republicans such as Saxby Chambliss who screamed to high heaven when the feds tried to enforce immigration laws. Show me how eager Georgia Republicans were to crack down on immigration back in the days of the housing boom, when illegal workers were making the GOP’s contractor, banker and real estate buddies immensely wealthy.
Nothing confirms the scandalous nature of this scheme better than weakness of the arguments being used to defend it.
Doggone/GA
January 25th, 2013
9:27 am
“I know it’s not going to happen but the BEST thing would be to do away with the electoral college all together and just go by the popular vote.”
I don’t agree, but apart from that it’s also the hardest and longest process. The EASIEST thing to do is similar to what Jay is complaining about…except all that needs to be done is to allocate the EC votes on a percentage basis comparable to the popular vote, with the winner taking any fractions of a vote left. So if the winner gets 51% of the vote, he gets 51% of the EC votes plus any leftover fractions from that division. That change would not require a Constitutional amendment.
joe
January 25th, 2013
9:28 am
Bookman, you are getting so stupid in your old age. You wanna talk about cheating…stew on this:
As each state reported their final election details, the evidence of voter fraud is astounding.
Massive voter fraud has been reported in areas of OH and FL, with PA, WI and VA,
all are deploying personnel to investigate election results.
Here are just a few examples of what has surfaced with much more to come:
* In 59 voting districts in the Philadelphia region, Obama received 100% of the votes with not even a single vote recorded for Romney. (A mathematical and statistical impossibility).
* In 21 districts in Wood County Ohio, Obama received 100% of the votes where GOP inspectors were illegally removed from their polling locations – and not one single vote was recorded for Romney. (Another statistical impossibility).
* In Wood County Ohio, 106,258 voted in a county with only 98,213 eligible voters.
* In St. Lucie County, FL, there were 175,574 registered eligible voters but 247,713 votes were cast.
* The National SEAL Museum, a polling location in St. Lucie County, FL had a 158% voter turnout.
* Palm Beach County, FL had a 141% voter turnout.
* In Ohio County, Obama won by 108% of the total number of eligible voters.
NOTE: Obama won in every state that did not require a Photo ID and lost in every state that did require a Photo ID in order to vote.
DannyX
January 25th, 2013
9:28 am
”Second, weren’t you pinkos whining up a storm when Gore won the popular vote? Now you’re HUGE electoral college fans, huh?”
Wow! Just wow. Republican crazy is really on display today! Or is it unskewed Republican intelligence?
the cat
January 25th, 2013
9:28 am
Thulsa applauding the cheating party. Who is surprised?
barking frog
January 25th, 2013
9:28 am
Just another example of the Constitution allowing choice and creating
dissention.
Marty Huggins'
January 25th, 2013
9:29 am
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:16 am
One can defend the right to make a decision without defending the actual decision.
It is a practice that is legal and has been used before, dating way back.
Both sides use tactics to “steal” elections as you say. Through both sides realigning districts nearly constantly for their perceived benefit.
Others are just pointing out your obvious bias as you attempt to claim this would never have been even thought of ever.
Yet it was used by Maine in the election 1828. An election with many stories and tales of things that if happening today would keep you quite the busy man trying to keep up.
Now I wonder who would have a closer connection to the thoughts and ideas of our founding fathers…….
The people of 1804 or 1812, with actual founding fathers still walking around or us today who gets to read about them on wiki?
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:30 am
“Virginia Democrats have already stated that they would ask the courts to address the constitutionality of this since this is occurring PRIOR to the 2020 census….and redistricting is supposed to occur only during census years!
That’s a losing argument. It’s tradition, not law, to redistrict every 10 years. Nothing in the Constitution prevents states from doing it annually, if they chose.
Redcoat
January 25th, 2013
9:30 am
Reading Jay and friends use as much negative connotation and hateful sarcasm on this subject, there must be something to it……….
Power shifted away from big city populations so that their “progressive will” imposed those in more conservative rural areas being reduced ……..?
The natural division of those wanting to independent and those accepting being dependent continues to grow…….
Fly-On-The-Wall
January 25th, 2013
9:30 am
It is one thing to talk of gerry mandering at the state level for state elections. All sides have done at some point but it is a totally different issue when the party in power at the state level changes the rules for Presidential elections via those same gerry mandered districts.
This is something we expect to see in a 3rd world country or banana republic but not here in the U.S. Those Republican legislators who vote for this should be tried for treason and if a Democratic legislator did the same then they too should be tried for treason.
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:31 am
I will say that those hard-core partisans on the right who defend this scheme aren’t looking at it through the eyes of a moderate or independent, who are likely to see it for what it is and turn against those proposing it.
St Simons
January 25th, 2013
9:32 am
With travesties like this, I hope our side will somehow finally realize
that there is no working with these people.
the only thing keeping Them from the dustbin of history
is that realization & our side’s lack of a killer instinct.
HDB
January 25th, 2013
9:32 am
Mike
January 25th, 2013
9:21 am
“This will stop the big city vote in these states from taking all the electoral votes. Most all of the suburban and rural residents in these states, look at things a little differently. The way it is now, in some of the northern states especially, the big city, urban voters are speaking for the entire state. How is that fair?”
It’s fair in the aspect that one vote in the urban district is equivalent to one vote in the rural district. By shifting to Congressional district vote, if one Congressional district has only 250K people….and another has 2.5M people….under district allocation in the smaller district has a 10:1 effect on the vote in the larger district! That would distort the will of the people!!
Apply the same aspect to Georgia: Atlanta metro area has over 6M people….but its voting power would be marginalized by the rest of the state on the scale of almost 20:1 under Congressional allocation……whereas under the current system, each vote is equal…even though the GOP controls the preponderance of the Congressional districts!!
DannyX
January 25th, 2013
9:32 am
More unskewed Republican intelligence! Gullible Joe @ 9:28 posting a bogus chain email.
http://factcheck.org/2013/01/voting-conspiracies/
Class of '98
January 25th, 2013
9:32 am
“The stupid it hurts.”
Wow, that’s such an intelligent, insightful retort!! Full of inarguable facts and logic!! Thanks for putting me in my place!!
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:32 am
“Second, weren’t you pinkos whining up a storm when Gore won the popular vote? Now you’re HUGE electoral college fans, huh?”
It depends. They have variable standards you see. When it suits them to whine about winning the popular vote and losing the election they variate to the idea that that’s just plain wrong. Then when the electoral vote is more important to them they variate their idea of fairness to the idea that electoral votes are what’s important. Its also called Democrat fairness flexibility.
JamVet
January 25th, 2013
9:32 am
As proven almost on a daily basis, 98 belongs in the Veracity Free Bloggers Hall of Fame.
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:33 am
So you guys are arguing that a rural vote ought to count more than an urban vote? That 20,000 rural voters ought to be able to trump 30,000 urban voters?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2013
9:35 am
DIA — “I’m not advocating what is going on in VA, but, wouldn’t this approach benefit the dems sometimes, the pubs others? Both sides have railed against the electoral college from time to time, according to how it would benefit them at the time. This is considered “news” only becaus the dirty rotten pubs are attempting it. Why just go to the popular vote? Then we might see attention paid to the rest of us, not just the swing states.”
The one proposal I’ve seen that I think would be *truly* fair to all concerned would be to award EVs proportionally based on percentage of the popular vote, plus the two ’senator’ EVs to the statewide winner. So if Sam Republican got 60% of the VA vote and Mike Democrat got 40%, that’s how the EVs get split, with Sam Republican also getting the two ‘bonus’ EVs. I think this is the same thing you’re saying, DIA.
Doing things the way the VA GOP appears to want to do them is in effect giving candidates credit for the *acreage* they carry, not for the *voters* they carry.
Brosephus™
January 25th, 2013
9:35 am
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:16 am
I honestly thought that few conservatives on this blog would try to defend this.
Not a pleasant lesson to be taught otherwise.
Not to call you a dumbass, naive, or anything else, but did you honestly expect conservative posters here to agree with YOU on anything? If so, I have some beachfront property in Colorado that you would love to invest in.
Class of '98
January 25th, 2013
9:36 am
But to your credit, at least you didn’t write, “here’s you sign”, because as well all know, the most erudite, educated, sophisticated among us are enormous Bill Engvall fans.
Grasshopper
January 25th, 2013
9:36 am
Go Virginia!
Give Jay and the Crybabies something to moan about. Love it!
DannyX
January 25th, 2013
9:36 am
“to be honest Jay–why not disclose the other states who allocate their electorial votes in the same way”
Stew Day, because there are none!
Maine and Nebraska also have at large electoral votes that go to the winner of the popular vote. Their systems can’t skew the results to the loser of the popular vote like Virginia is proposing.
barking frog
January 25th, 2013
9:37 am
I, personally, think we should allow the Presidential election to be
held in Florida only.
Lord Help Us
January 25th, 2013
9:37 am
‘That 20,000 rural voters ought to be able to trump 30,000 urban voters?’
Are we going back to the 3/5’s thingie again…
Morality?
January 25th, 2013
9:37 am
Constitution? Constitution? Since when has Obama ever concerned himself with the Constitution? If anything he has great disdain for our constitution and ignores it on a daily basis up there in Hollyweird North aka D.C. JAY when are you going to point out the cheating going on in the Dem Party? When are you going to comment on the fact that the Dems ignore the constitution when they don’t agree with it? Obama puts his hand on the Bible and swears under oath to defend and uphold the Fed laws on the books – if his lips are moving he’s untruthing.
rightwingextreme
January 25th, 2013
9:38 am
Jay,
How is this different from the dims when they wanted to scrap the Electoral College back in 2000 and just go with the straight vote?
I’m not saying I’m in favor of this btw.
MiltonMan
January 25th, 2013
9:38 am
Relax you dim-witted libs. The NC state Supreme Court will shot this down – just like the GA state supreme court shot down none other than your chosen retread Roy Barnes when he stuffed 5k more cons in each northern GA ditrict vs. lib districts.
Jay, I don’t recall you having an opinion piece on the shenanigans of Barnes & Baker that ended up costing the state $2 million & in the end Barnes & Barker’s garbage was thrown to the curb as unconstitutional.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:38 am
“The natural division of those wanting to independent and those accepting being dependent continues to grow…….”
Or kinda like a bucket of crabs. You’ll have a couple of them independent crabs trying to get away and climb their way up to the top kinda like the Rs. Then you’ll have the other crabs grabbing at them trying to pull them down to their level or the lowest common denominator kinda like the dependent Ds.
greybees
January 25th, 2013
9:39 am
Even the GOP governor of Virginia has to know hat this action by the legislature is outrageous and will kill the very idea of fair elections. Call Gov McDonnell (804-786-2011) and tell him to veto HB259.
HDB
January 25th, 2013
9:39 am
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:30 am
Just found this…..it addresses the possibilities as to how this can be stopped (and corrects my errors….mea culpa!!)
“No Mid-Decade Gerrymanders: The Virginia Constitution provides that “[t]he General Assembly shall reapportion the Commonwealth into electoral districts in accordance with this section in the year 2011 and every ten years thereafter.” When a constitution specifically instructs a legislature to take a particular action or grants a specific power to those lawmakers, courts sometimes read it to implicitly prevent them from taking other actions. Thus, when the state constitution instructs Virginia lawmakers to redistrict every ten years, it implicitly instructs them not to engage in mid-decade gerrymanders, and the new maps are invalid. The Virginia Supreme Court has not weighed in on this question, but a Virginia trial court concluded in 2012 that one purpose of this provision in the state constitution was “to preclude ‘politically convenient redistricting whenever one political party or the other might gain the upper hand and find it attractive to redraw political boundaries to consolidate power.’”
Voting Rights Act: The Voting Rights Act not only forbids state voting laws which have a discriminatory impact on minorities, Section Five of the Act also requires new voting laws in some parts of the county to “pre-clear” those requirements with the Department of Justice or a federal court in Washington, DC before they can take effect. Much of Virginia remains subject to Section Five, so the maps could be stopped if they diminish minority voting strength in the covered areas.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/23/1478371/four-ways-the-virginia-gops-redistricting-power-grab-could-be-stopped-by-the-law/
JamVet
January 25th, 2013
9:39 am
joe, I would ask you to please provide the link the website you got that “info” from, but I don’t need you.
The list of sites is like a who’s who of lunatic fringe op-ed and blogging sites. NOT ONE reputable news source listed Not Reuters or BBC or CNN or even Fox News. Kind of strange, doncha think?
The joke is on you willfully gullible, research challenged neocons.
http://tinyurl.com/bxuuyr8
stands for decibels
January 25th, 2013
9:40 am
Not real surprised that there isn’t a single Republican voter posting here who is willing to see this hostile takeover for what it is.
You guys pretty much all suck. For the record.
/drive-by
td
January 25th, 2013
9:40 am
This is what happens with so called “non partisan” committees to draw Congressional districts:
“How Democrats Fooled California’s Redistricting Commission”
http://www.propublica.org/article/how-democrats-fooled-californias-redistricting-commission
Redcoat
January 25th, 2013
9:40 am
Should rural folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful big city folks?
DannyX
January 25th, 2013
9:40 am
“I’m not saying I’m in favor of this btw.”
The good ol’ Republican butt defense, “but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but…”
Mr_B
January 25th, 2013
9:42 am
“As for your point about gerrymandering come on now. Both parties have been doing gerrymandering for a long time. You ought to know better than that.”
People have been committing adultery for even longer. I guess that must be OK as well.
Erwin's cat
January 25th, 2013
9:42 am
so what..
I will say that those hard-core partisans on the right who defend this scheme aren’t looking at it through the eyes of a moderate or independent, who are likely to see it for what it is and turn against those proposing it.
says the hardcore partisan on the left
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:43 am
Most important of all, this can only be a short-term fix for the GOP that allows them to ignore their long-term problems for just a little while longer.
It is a sign of desperation from a party that doesn’t know where else to turn.
Brosephus™
January 25th, 2013
9:43 am
Should rural folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful big city folks?
Should big city folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful rural folks? As I seem to recall, in Georgia, the Atlanta metro area sends out more in taxes than it gets back.
Paul
January 25th, 2013
9:43 am
Man, there are more diversions and “you libs think that’s bad? Well tell me about all this other stuff you do” posts than I’ve seen in a lonnnng time.
Rule of Thumb: can’t refute a topic, start digging rabbit holes.
the cat
January 25th, 2013
9:44 am
The lack of personal morals by the republicans posting here is astounding. I would not do business with any of you. You can’t be trusted.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 25th, 2013
9:44 am
Proportional voting does not have to be by congressional district. http://www.fairvote.org
HDB
January 25th, 2013
9:44 am
Redcoat
January 25th, 2013
9:40 am
“Should rural folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful big city folks?”
Do not big city folk already pay taxes that benefit rural folk?? Works both ways, you know…………
DannyX
January 25th, 2013
9:45 am
“Should rural folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful big city folks?”
Rural folk take in way more than they give, at the state and federal level. Georgia is a prime example, 35% of all state tax revenue generated in metro-Atlanta is redistributed to rural Georgia. Example, you think those fancy highways in rural Georgia are paid for by the taxes generated there?
skipper
January 25th, 2013
9:45 am
Wow, independent or not, lets keep moronic Al Gore out of this. I totally understand arguments, and I am not an extremest. That being said, we can cuss Bush, Clinton, whoever and I am still convinced we would have been better off with Al Bundy as prez than Al Gore. (Cheatin’, gerrymandering, or anything else to keep his a$$ out would have made me compromise some principles……..) lol
TGT
January 25th, 2013
9:45 am
So was it (or is it) “cheating” when libs call for the POTUS to be chosen by the national popular vote winner?
When asked, “Yes or no, eliminate the Electoral College?” Obama responded, “Yes … I think, at this point, this is breaking down.”
Shortly after the 2000 election, as a newly-minted Senator-elect, Clinton called for direct elections of the president. She argued the country has changed since the Electoral College was put in place.
“We are a very different country than we were 200 years ago,” Clinton said at a news conference.
“I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it’s time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president.”
JamVet
January 25th, 2013
9:45 am
After the third beatdown in four elections, the neocons are in major damage control mode But alas repainting the GOP submarine’s screen doors is only going to get them so far.
Stay losers, my friends…
Marty Huggins'
January 25th, 2013
9:45 am
stands for decibels
January 25th, 2013
9:40 am
That’s a mighty big assumption!
As I said earlier… One can defend the states right to make this choice and not defend the choice itself.
It is the right of the state to determine their method.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 25th, 2013
9:46 am
Most important of all, this can only be a short-term fix for the GOP that allows them to ignore their long-term problems for just a little while longer
And may drive the Republican demise even faster.
Lord Help Us
January 25th, 2013
9:47 am
GOP will continue until they have unskewed votes that match their unskewed polls…
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:47 am
“Should rural folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful big city folks?”
Every study that I’ve ever seen on the question documents the fact that urban areas heavily subsidize rural areas. In Georgia, for example, a Georgia State study documented the fact that in 2004, the Atlanta metro area generated 61 percent of state revenues, but received 47 percent of state spending.
Morality?
January 25th, 2013
9:48 am
Should we allow 20 rural votes to equal 30 city votes? Depends on how many “city” votes are illegal. We all know dead people vote democrat. So I could ask you: should we allow 30 “dead people” city votes to equal 20 “live people” rural votes?
Marco Polo
January 25th, 2013
9:48 am
Hey Jay isn’t what the Republicans are trying to do here considered redistributing the wealth?
Lord Help Us
January 25th, 2013
9:49 am
Rural folks are the real moochers?
Now that’s gonna make some heads explode…
Redcoat
January 25th, 2013
9:49 am
Brosephus……”Should big city folks pay taxes that only benefit wasteful rural folks? As I seem to recall, in Georgia, the Atlanta metro area sends out more in taxes than it gets back.”
And things are really going well for both……right?
indigo
January 25th, 2013
9:49 am
Jay – 8:59
I don’t understand this answer.
Democrats control at least 17 state legislatures.
Why could they not do what Virginia is doing?
TaxPayer
January 25th, 2013
9:49 am
The losing party–the GOP–is simply determined to show everyone that there are nor will there ever be any bigger losers than themselves. Well done, cons. You’re Number One!
Jay
January 25th, 2013
9:49 am
Saxby Chambliss not running for re-election.
MiltonMan
January 25th, 2013
9:50 am
“The lack of personal morals by the republicans posting here is astounding. I would not do business with any of you. You can’t be trusted.”
Yes, I would also prefer to do business with the “moral high ground” dems that are running the APS, DeKalb County, Clayton County, Ray Nagin, Jon Corzine. Bishop Long, Creflo Dollar, etc., etc.
Funny to see libs claiming moral superiority.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:50 am
“The lack of personal morals by the republicans posting here is astounding. I would not do business with any of you. You can’t be trusted.”- the cat
Sorry cat but I can’t do bidness with you anyway. I’m not set up to take food stamps/TANF cards.
Lynnie Gal
January 25th, 2013
9:50 am
This illustration of how far Republicans will go to subvert the will of the American people when they are opposed is precisely why we need federalization of elections. We also need to examine paper trails for voting machines in all states since it it not beneath Republicans to rig elections by rigging voting machines. We see how far they will go to seize power, so that is not a ludicrous idea.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
January 25th, 2013
9:50 am
“GOP battle plan: If you can’t compete, cheat”
Has Jay ever written a column on Chicago politics ??
Paul
January 25th, 2013
9:51 am
indigo
“Democrats control at least 17 state legislatures.
Why could they not do what Virginia is doing?”
Because they’re not desperate and in need of a big-time makeover?
TaxPayer
January 25th, 2013
9:51 am
In Georgia, for example, a Georgia State study documented the fact that in 2004, the Atlanta metro area generated 61 percent of state revenues, but received 47 percent of state spending.
I’m sure the cons have some unskewed data to refute your facts.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:52 am
“Funny to see libs claiming moral superiority.”
Miltonman,
They base their moral superiority on their support for partial birth abortion.
JamVet
January 25th, 2013
9:52 am
skipper, yep.
Because having eight endless years of the most incompetent, delusional, immoral and deadly American administration in modern history was such a bargain!
You’ve done a heckuva job, connies.
But the best part?
His legacy is STILL so toxic, you won’t win the White House for another decade or two.
But gerrymander away, as if that will solve your vast problems…
Lord Help Us
January 25th, 2013
9:53 am
9:50 – hasenpfeffer alert…
stands for decibels
January 25th, 2013
9:53 am
So was it (or is it) “cheating” when libs call for the POTUS to be chosen by the national popular vote winner?
No. It’s something that could only be accomplished through an amendment to the Constitution, as has been patiently explained to you already.
And ok, Marty @ 9.45, it’d appear it’s possible that you don’t pretty much suck. Although you have to reach awfully far back to make any kind of case at all.
Blanket statements are stupid and I should always avoid them because I always gotta walk ‘em back. In fact, ALL blanket statements are stupid! All of ‘em!
/not a drive-by, looks like I got a minute or six after all…
indigo
January 25th, 2013
9:54 am
Morality
Please furnish some examples of how “Dems ignore the constitution when they don’t agree with it”.
Paul
January 25th, 2013
9:54 am
0311
posted seven minutes before your post:
“Man, there are more diversions and “you libs think that’s bad? Well tell me about all this other stuff you do” posts than I’ve seen in a lonnnng time.
Rule of Thumb: can’t refute a topic, start digging rabbit holes.”
you are soooooo predictable!
Now, do you think you can be the first blogger this morning to take issue with Jay’s commentary by addressing the issues in a rational, logical manner?
TiredOfIt
January 25th, 2013
9:54 am
Next we will have Hannity telling us what great Americans they are.
“We have met the enemy and he is us”
Class of '98
January 25th, 2013
9:54 am
Quote from the end of David Brooks’ column today: “This is not to make a partisan point. The Republicans do not have a better approach.”
WOW!! What a raging, unapologetic conservative this guy is!!!!!
Redcoat
January 25th, 2013
9:55 am
Jay……..So who’s getting the other 53%?……..I’m sure as the limits of any big city expands those people swallowed up are so thankful!…….
JamVet
January 25th, 2013
9:55 am
So Blood & Guts Saxby is quitting?
Zoiks, that means that that wormy little Tom Price will be our next US Senator.
As an MD I just wish he had been forthright with the people of Georgia in the very beginning.
And admitted that he had had a spinectomy before going to Washington…
TaxPayer
January 25th, 2013
9:55 am
scout tries to peck out a pot hole in vain.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:56 am
“Has Jay ever written a column on Chicago politics ??”
Yes. It was titled “pay to play” and the intro was written by former governor “Blago”
Granny Godzilla
January 25th, 2013
9:56 am
Saxby Chambliss going?
Georgia politics is gonna’ get really interesting.
indigo
January 25th, 2013
9:57 am
Jay
It’s kind of scary to realize, after reading some of the con comments here, that Republicans in a state could advocate seceding from the union and many conservatives would defend it.
ad
January 25th, 2013
9:57 am
This idea that dead people voted or more people than were registered in some place voted has been debunked so many times I can’t believe people are still throwing it out there. The “dead” people usually turn out to be people with the same names and the “more votes than registered voters” turns out to be that some locations had multiple ballots for multiple issues and the cons counted ballots and lied that they were voters. Give it a rest. Obama won the EC and the popular vote. The GOP might as well go back and demand that votes from blacks count as 3/5 of a vote. They’ve gone that crazy.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2013
9:58 am
You Foxbot Hannity Limbaugh Boortz Oreilly listening right wing nut case blah blah blah….
Yeah. I know I was late getting it out before the first Hannity card was thrown.
rick
January 25th, 2013
9:59 am
you epitomize sleaze! it is amazing how, we all knew it was coming, are nothing more than an obama lemming….
Morality?
January 25th, 2013
9:59 am
I propose that Yankees moving to Georgia should not be allowed to vote for their 1st five years during which time they will under go the southern indoctrination (aka common sense) – after such time they shall be allowed to vote with their vote count as 1/2 vote. That would be my system of gerrymandering.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2013
9:59 am
Jay — “Saxby Chambliss not running for re-election.”
GOOD