GOP leaders moonwalk away from debt-ceiling Armageddon
Slowly, painfully, political reality has begun to dawn on Washington Republicans and their supporters: If they force a major battle over the debt ceiling — a battle that they have acted oh-so-eager to fight — they are guaranteed to lose, and to lose badly.
Such a battle would be fought against superior forces, and on ill-chosen ground. The president’s approval rating are consistently above 50 percent; Congress has an approval rating of 14 percent. While Republicans still hold the House majority, they lost seats in the 2012 election and acknowledge that they held onto the majority only because of gerrymandering. Majorities of Republican voters reject key proponents of the GOP agenda, including cuts to Social Security and Medicare. In fact, 63 percent of GOP voters say the congressional GOP is out of touch. (That’s a Rasmussen number, by the way.)
And according to a new AP poll, 80 percent of Americans say that refusing to raise the debt ceiling, as House and Senate Republicans have promised to do, would touch off a major economic crisis.
Under those circumstances, threatening to force that major economic crisis unless the president implements politically unpopular policies would be the act of a fool. And fools there no doubt be.
However, a handful of Republican senators have now publicly acknowledged that the party would lose and lose badly by threatening to shut down the government. U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, chair of the House Budget Committee, warned his fellow GOP congressmen at a retreat yesterday that their strategy has to match their capability.
As Politico described his remarks:
“Ryan said Republicans need to come to grips with the fact that they are the only Republicans in power in Washington. In the closed legislative strategy session, he said the GOP should avoid over-promising and under-delivering, according to five sources present. Instead, House Republicans should work to control expectations about what they can extract from Obama, and then people will be pleased by the result.”
The usually bellicose Charles Krauthammer is also a bit of a bellwether. He has been egging the Republicans on for weeks now, pushing them to do battle. (”If we all cliff-dive, Obama gets to preside over yet another recession. It will wreck his second term… You think he wants a second term with a double-dip recession, 9 percent unemployment and a totally gridlocked Congress? Republicans have to stop playing as if they have no cards.”)
Now, even Krauthammer wants to back down from a fight that he suddenly sees can only end badly. “The party establishment,” he writes, “is coming around to the view that if you try to govern from one house — e.g., force spending cuts with cliffhanging brinkmanship — you lose. You not only don’t get the cuts. You get the blame for rattled markets and economic uncertainty. You get humiliated by having to cave in the end. And you get opinion polls ranking you below head lice and colonoscopies in popularity.”
What’s going on here? Why this sudden outburst of strategic sanity? I think the great Samuel Johnson put it best:
“Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.”
– Jay Bookman
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637 comments Add your comment
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
12:09 pm
Frog, really? We have made improvements in energy efficiency, cleaning emissions. We are making progress in alternative energy. Normally you seem to have the ability to discuss matters seriously. I am surprised at your negative posts.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
12:10 pm
Gee, do you remember blood letting, rain following the plow, heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones, there was a Harvard heart researcher in 1981 who faked data….NCI subsequently found each of his 200 papers materially flawed, cold fusion, Sagans erroneous climate data used for his “nuclear winter” forecast, electro-magnetic (power lines) link to cancer, NYT’s suggestion that an asteroid was gonna make the sky fall in 2028, breast implants causing cancer and of course Y2K…what if the scientific process of skepticism was suppressed on these issues?
Nope. Feel free to post links to individual topics and I’ll be happy to review and comment though.
Dick Cheney's Pacemaker
January 18th, 2013
12:11 pm
The republican controlled house and senate approved bush’s debt limit increases without question even though they didn’t even know what me and bushie were spending on the war, now that obama’s in the WHouse, all I see is incessant whining. I think thats why they conintue to lose, their argument is FALSE, Obama is good at exposing it thusly
Logical Dude
January 18th, 2013
12:12 pm
Charles Krauthammer quotes: “If we all cliff-dive, Obama gets to preside over yet another recession. It will wreck his second term… You think he wants a second term with a double-dip recession, 9 percent unemployment and a totally gridlocked Congress? ”
REALLY????
Someone wants to put the country, affecting millions of citizens, throwing people out of work, causing a crisis, for POLITICAL GAIN? (okay okay, they “walked it back”)
Seriously, this is such a stupid stupid (extra expletives removed before posting) logic chain that I can’t even comprehend it.
“Oh gee, how do we make the president look bad?” “Oh, how about we throw the country into economic turmoil! That’ll do it!” and someone is finally saying “well, you know, it might be bad for the country if you do that.” “oh wait, you’re right, there may be a political cost for ruining the country”
Jm
January 18th, 2013
12:12 pm
Economist.com
Obama disengaged from dealing with security threats
The man is adrift
No sail, no rudder
Regnad Kcin
January 18th, 2013
12:12 pm
“Gee, do you remember blood letting…”
Yup, and when better data came along, we developed better theories. Do you have some new data to share with us?
Jm
January 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
Obama has stood by as 50,000 have been killed in Syria
He has blood on his hands
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
TBone
January 18th, 2013
11:54 am
Fred I suspect that you have quite the inflated opinion of your intellectual prowess. But you do understand that the gubmint does not create wealth; it has resorted to redistributing it. That can’t be sustained.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks Neal, I heard you spew that line on your show 20 years ago………
Oh wait, that’s a puppet repeating it, sorry Neal.
And your point is what Tbone? Please regale us all with how your clever little talk radio phrase is germane to this discussion.
marge
January 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
Funny how Republicans and their Tea Party cohorts critcize the President for not “leading” when that was their goal from the beginning. Now, are you saying you were successful, or not??? In spite of their hatred, attempts to shut down his every agenda, the president has accomplished much. Look it up, lazy. Oh, I forgot. You won’t believe it unless it comes from FOX or some other Tea Party source. Oh, well. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised it WILL BE the fault of Republicans. Don’t you get it yet? You guys are not real popular among the masses? From an old song: “use your mentality, wake up to reality”. Huh?
Sten Deadio
January 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
All you have to know about “Vinny” is that he puts quotation marks around the word “president”.
He’s not the “president”, he is YOUR PRESIDENT! Obama is the president of YOU.
Choke on it, Vinny. Choke. On. It.
Because your cred goes right in the toilet when you telegraph your bias and engage in unhinged, reason-free yammer.
Hey, at least there are plenty of other xeno/homo/Islamophobes in there to keep you company…you can all echo each others’ biases, yelling louder and louder, until you feel better.
The rest of us will go on and handle our business WITHOUT all the crying.
Once again, you must understand that no matter how much you want to whine about the lack of toerance for hateful and racist beliefs, the Rightwing attempts to make bigotry a culturally accepted behavior (cough cough TEA PARTY! cough cough), it just ain’t gonna happen.
Go cry FOX News drone.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2013
12:17 pm
Getting too nasty in here. Time for FUNNIES!
http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-football/manti-teo-meme/
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:17 pm
The automatic cuts will kick in a couple of months from now. That is when the GOP should try to work something out as a comprimise. Not on the debt ceiling.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:17 pm
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
Fred ™
You might have given up but we haven’t.
…………………………………………….
I quit smoking. Keep up was right, I am a quitter.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Great. Hiw long? I quit dipping a little over a year ago. I still crave it so bad sometimes it’s pathetic. My cousin quit smoking about 7-10 years ago. He said he also craves it dsometimes…….
Mick
January 18th, 2013
12:17 pm
jm
I’m sure you would be first in line to enlist with a war against syris, right? “All talk no action”, that’s so you…
getalife
January 18th, 2013
12:18 pm
jm,
Still lying?
Just stop.
JamVet
January 18th, 2013
12:18 pm
Just 26 percent of Americans have a positive view of the Republican Party…
THAT is depressing.
How in the name of (your favorite deity here) could it possibly be above 6%???
I guess because given the following quote, it means that there are still countless Americans with terminal cranial-rectal disease:
I would offer an alternate view that a big part of this is the fact that Democrats will always approve of anyone with a D behind his name, where Republicans don’t do the same.
At least the good news is that they are irrefutably imploding…
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:18 pm
SR @ 12.03: Read up on it? I have for quite a long time now. I’ve learned a lot about the program. Unique in many ways. Here’s what’s most amazing, to me, about it.
I do not believe there has ever, in American history, been a government funded program that foresaw future funding shortcomings and actually taxed individuals more to build up funding to pay for it them. Social Security has. And the thanks that those working men and women get for putting in more, in advance, to pay for the demographic bulge ahead, is to be told to expect cuts of one kind or another (but they all amount to cuts, whether it’s an accelerated retirement age hike or some cheesy recalc of the inflation index.)
Furthermore, Social Security has been a phenomenally effective and successful program and at the risk of going all “they hate us for our freedoms!” on you, I really do think that the plutocracy hates Social Security because it IS responsibly funded and administered, and extremely popular, AND a demonstration that the blather about government being some gross, inefficient beast that can’t help you is an absolute lie.
Furthermore, any internet dope who sees the word “Social Security” and kneejerks “Ponzi Scheme” or suchlike gets placed on my crap list, and gets treated with the kind of malice deserved. And Stevie, I ain’t saying *you’re* there (quite, yet) but when you reach in an AM radio talking point like the allegedly-scary worker ratio figure, you get a bit closer.
getalife
January 18th, 2013
12:19 pm
You cons are slipping.
Where are the constant scandals and hearings from the vast rw conspiracy?
This President is different.
Face it, he is a good President.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:20 pm
appleseed
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
All this rain has to be Obama’s fault.How else we get black ice?
Yeah Fred and the Jolly R has the fresh crawfish also.
++++++++++++++++++++++
What is the Jolly R? Is it a restaurant? Southern Seafood is a store that sells fresh seafood for me to cook lol. Well they also will cook some up, but mainly they are a “butchershop” for seafood.
Does Jolly R sell live crawfish that I can take home and cook like a real Cajun?
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
12:20 pm
Keep Up
The negativity stems from the voiced urgency and yet nearly
total inactivity on climate change. Science has clearly stated
the urgency but is either powerless or not concerned enough
to instigate changes that have a certain solution.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
12:21 pm
Later. The blog is boinked.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
12:23 pm
OedipusTax: “The inability of our government to live within its means is a historical disgrace. / Puny little pukes like Jay Bookman applauding the greed of government is obscene.”
Come on Bircher boy, off that high horse. You’ve swallowed the meme put out there by the wealthy elite interests hook line and sinker.
This is the wealthiest country in the world. And we do not have a spending problem. What we have is a crisis of the political economy rooted in the overtaking of productive capital by financial capital, nothing less than a nasty and historic crisis of capitalism itself.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:23 pm
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
Hey, you guys (and you know who you are) who feel compelled to quote someone else’s ENTIRE post, PLUS the name / date / time thingie?
’sup with that? It’s kind of annoying.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not everyone is as clever as you and they don’t remember their words (especially the talk radio/FOXBOTS). Also since most of them are repeating talkradio/FOXBOT lines and there are often several posts saying the exact same thing, it helps to keep the dumb asses separated.
Besides, it’s easier than formatting every damn post.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
12:25 pm
Frog, science is responsible to make these changes? Try our politicians and our industry. And of course, you are ignoring the impact of a radical wingnut agenda ginned up by profiteers like the Kochs who would have to change their business practices and who are industries that would be adversely impacted. We have seen this history repeated over and over again.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
12:26 pm
Jm: “Obama has stood by as 50,000 have been killed in Syria / He has blood on his hands”
Oh so you WANT intervention now?
I see.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:27 pm
Not everyone is as clever as you
Really? they’re not?
We are well and truly screwn, then.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
12:28 pm
A little more reply to Erwin’s link from 2010. Had to do some digging there didn’t ya dude.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:28 pm
Jm
January 18th, 2013
12:14 pm
Obama has stood by as 50,000 have been killed in Syria
He has blood on his hands
+++++++++++++++++++++
When the hell did we become responsible for Syria? The SYRIANS have blood on THEIR hands, not obama.
Jesus you post more and more insipid stuff as the day goes on. Are you drinking/
Jm
January 18th, 2013
12:28 pm
Air support to stop the slaughter
Welcome
I have never been an isolationist
indigo
January 18th, 2013
12:28 pm
What’s a poor Republican politician to do?
His Big Business masters are ordering one thing.
His constitutents are ordering another thing.
His Business masters threaten to cut off the campaign money, or else!
His constitutents threaten to not vote for him, or else!
NO MORE!!!
This quandry is just soooooooo heartbreaking.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2013
12:29 pm
Not having read the previous pages…did the anti-tyranny crowd spill their plans
for dealing with their representatives caving on the debt ceiling?
Seriously you anti-tyrannists need to get your own house in order, don’t ya’ think?
tee hee hee
Steve
January 18th, 2013
12:32 pm
We have starved government (not enough revenue via the lowest tax rates in 60 years). We have spending focused on wars and waste and pork. We don’t spend where we can create jobs and we whine that we don’t have jobs and not enough tax revenue because people are out of work. We give CEOs milion dollar parachutes when companies fail, and we pay them exorbitantly otherwise. We have let the very wealthy manipulate the masses via non-existent wedge issues (Obama will take all your guns! Gays marrying will ruin your marriage!) to gain conservative votes. WE ARE A MESS
Sten Deadio
January 18th, 2013
12:32 pm
TBone says: “…But you do understand that the gubmint does not create wealth; it has resorted to redistributing it. That can’t be sustained.”
———————–
Oh, really? I guess you never heard of Halliburton, Blackwater, Boeing, Verizon, General Electric, or the many many Fortune 500 companies who are on that list thanks to “gubmint” largesse.
You< imbecile.
Itchy Finger
January 18th, 2013
12:32 pm
GT
Itchy Finger and with your dribble you say the hell with America, but the GOP has been in that posture ever since you found you couldn’t carry an election any more. That is the reason the polls are in the low teens, you say to hell with America and America says to hell with you.
No actually I said to hell with Obama… You may need to wipe the foam off your face so you can comprehend a little before before replying… The country defaulting is not a bad thing…
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
12:32 pm
Stands, “Keep assuming facts not in evidence about those who disagree with you. 14%? do I hear 13%?”
Aren’t you guys (Mick) making assumptions about the rich people he hates so much? That “they can afford it” routine makes a whole lot of assumptions you’re not qualified to make.
Here’s something I think it’s safe for you to “assume”. Those rich people aren’t going to forgo their vacation so you can get a few thousand more people out of paying taxes. They’re going to continue to do what they need to do to get a return on their investment of time and money and if that means sending jobs to less expensive labor pools, that’s what they’ll do. When you end up living with mom/dad/your kids because we’ve become Europe, I know you’ll blame the rich for that too, but it’ll be your own fault.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
12:32 pm
We have starved government (not enough revenue via the lowest tax rates in 60 years). We have spending focused on wars and waste and pork. We don’t spend where we can create jobs and we whine that we don’t have jobs and not enough tax revenue because people are out of work. We give CEOs milion dollar parachutes when companies fail, and we pay them exorbitantly otherwise. We have let the very wealthy manipulate the masses via non-existent wedge issues (Obama will take all your guns! Gays marrying will ruin your marriage!) to gain conservative votes. WE ARE A MESS
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
12:33 pm
Jm: “Air support to stop the slaughter”
We and our allies are actively trying to topple the Assad regime. Stopping the slaughter doesn’t seem to be a major concern.
GT
January 18th, 2013
12:33 pm
The inability of our government to live within its means is a historical disgrace.
Historical is a factual misrepresentation.
The real disgrace is a Congress which enacts the approval of spending money by law and then holds the country hostage when the invoice comes, like they have no obligation to pay bills they have by law made themselves responsible to pay. If you want to cut spending no one is stopping you pass laws to do such but don’t take back what you have approved because it is political expedient to your unpopular causes.
You talk about using children by Obama? You are using 300 million American, children are just part and parcel of you demon plot.
makers vs takers
January 18th, 2013
12:34 pm
Yea, we won! Country headed right down the toliet, but Yea we won. A conservative citizen will always be more valuabel than you liberal puke heads! Liberals will get what is coming to them one day, and it will be delivered by the Liberal leaders! Once power has been consolidated and the libveral sheep are no longer needed, they will be removed from society, and this is how it will be explained, ” Certainly you understand the need for you to die, you have been getting so much for free for so long, how can you complain”. Ho-ho, better become an individual and not a member of a group. Better go to work (not a gov’t taker job). You will be the first to go as gov’t needs private sector workers like me to buy your vote with. Boogerman and others are so doomed!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
12:35 pm
Appropos of everything..
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
Groucho Marx
guy
January 18th, 2013
12:35 pm
Adding more and more in debt is a looming disaster. Just because one has the power to enact what they want does not mean they are right. To all parties,this spending frenzy will stop one way or another. Bush started it and obama has taken it to another level. The wars were not his fault but why won’t someone take a stand and at least cut out the mountain of wasteful spending? It seems that both parties are doing things in spite of the other. That is so ridiculous and they are all wrong for what they have done and continue to do.
George McCulley
January 18th, 2013
12:36 pm
The Republican concern with debt is valid. The problem lies in their solutions. Cutting entitlements only treats the symptoms, not the cause. To attack the cause, there is one readily apparent solution: control health care spending. The easiest way to better control health care costs is a public option insurance exchange that private insurances will have to compete with. It’s allows pure market forces to work, instead of continuing to shield private insurance companies.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
12:36 pm
Granny, the Dawners and the other GOP conned have been surprisingly restrained overall on this blog regarding the caving….other that a few who seem to have run away after the typical failed leader stupidity.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:37 pm
No granny, all they said was ‘Obama sucks.” And then about 10 of them quoted Obama and his vote of no onthe 2006 debt ceiling.
There were the 50 or so “libs suck and Obama sucks and is a tyrant” posts.
15 or 20 Jay sucks posts.
A short discussion on the fact there is no global warning.
Obama is a murderer because there are dead people in Syria.
Um there was more, but nothing on the republican plans for the debt ceiling.
MUSFAHI
January 18th, 2013
12:38 pm
WE SHOULD NOT QUESTION OUR SUPREME LEADER!
guy
January 18th, 2013
12:38 pm
makers vs. takers,
Thank you. Love reading the truth!
Mick
January 18th, 2013
12:38 pm
rb
Talk about assumptions, who said anything about hating the rich? Follow this logic – they have more money, they can pay more taxes, got it???
Christian Conservative
January 18th, 2013
12:39 pm
Aquagirl:
Obama obviously cares. He blames everyone but himself for everything… You must live in isolation???
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:39 pm
Congress should make it illegal to draw up house districts based on past voting patterns. Stop gerrymandering for political and partisian purposes. That practice distorts our democracy and preverts the system of equal representation.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
12:39 pm
And finally a little something to educate the unenlightened such as our very own Erwin on climate models. Yes, I still hold out hope for the cons.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2013
12:40 pm
Keep
Bout damn time….did I see some knucklehead actually post that defaulting is not a bad thing?
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:40 pm
Here’s something I think it’s safe for you to “assume”. Those rich people aren’t going to forgo their vacation so you can get a few thousand more people out of paying taxes. They’re going to continue to do what they need to do to get a return on their investment of time and money and if that means sending jobs to less expensive labor pools, that’s what they’ll do. When you end up living with mom/dad/your kids because we’ve become Europe, I know you’ll blame the rich for that too, but it’ll be your own fault.
Gotta love it. When rich folks have to shoulder their burden as Americans they will just send jobs to slave labor markets, off shore their money and tell you to eat cake.
In a nutshell RB has outlined the Republican economic plan. Starve Americans until WE will work as slave labor and are humble enough to kiss their asses and then MAYBE they’ll let a little trickle down.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
12:41 pm
RB from Gwinnett: ” They’re going to continue to do what they need to do to get a return on their investment of time and money and if that means sending jobs to less expensive labor pools…”
WHOSE “time and money”?
The wealthy, the capitalists, BY DEFINITION do not expend their time as they are not forced to sell it on the labor market for their survival like the rest of us are.
Jackie
January 18th, 2013
12:41 pm
The Repubs have taken dance lessons and are trying to “moon walk” away from holding the American economic public hostage.
If one looks at them “dancing” on the American public stage, it would be hilarious if the impact on each of us were not so profound.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
12:41 pm
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:18 pm
What does anything you posited have to do with the fact that the cost of a single retiree under social security used to be spread among 16 working folks. Soon, it will be spread among 2. It that too hard to understand and comprehend? Pick the next two high school kids you see and know that they will have to pay multiples more into this system as the demographics shift.
Also, by definition, SS is in fact a ponzi arrangement. We always need new cash to pay off past promises..not intended in malice but no different math that that employed by Madoff…to maintain prior return promises, he needed new cash to which he made the same promises..
Christian Conservative
January 18th, 2013
12:42 pm
Even after Jay and obama’s NRA bashing they still have a more favorable opinion than our dear leader….
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/18/majority-supports-nra-despite-recent-criticism-poll-shows/
Steve
January 18th, 2013
12:42 pm
So…what would YOU cut? I’d go for the military, and corporate welfare, and fixing healthcare so it’s a single payer system with no private insurance middle men. I’d fix the pharamceutical stranglehold on our health care system. I’d as the people who can afford car elevators in their multiple mansions to pay more.
makers vs takers
January 18th, 2013
12:42 pm
Even is this world we live in, I am much happier as a conservative than any liberal. I accept I am responsible for my success and my failures. So, that means I will work for success, not accpet gov’t handouts. Break free of entitlement mentality. I am laughing. Also, bought a new Glock 23 in 40 caliber and will purchase more new guns soon. Better arm yourself liberal- as I stated above, you will be the first to go courtesy of your beloved federal gov’t..
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2013
12:42 pm
Fred
Standard claptrap…..I guess tyranny is ok if the GOP does it.
VET
January 18th, 2013
12:43 pm
Obama makes Bush look like a genius!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
12:43 pm
Granny, well if Fox does not tell them its a bad thing, how will they know?
It will be interesting to see how Fox handles the GOP cave. Will is join the sensible or rational or will it go down the Beck yellow gold brick road?
Mr Right
January 18th, 2013
12:43 pm
vinny
January 18th, 2013
8:52 am
Meanwhile, obama has no solutions to the debt crisis and is allowed to continue to spend, spend, spend.
You are so right Vinny, Obama has no solutions nor does he care, nor does he intend to do something about it, just spend, spend, spend! Raise the debt ceiling to $ 18,000,000,000,000.00 then to $20,000,000,000,000.00 then to $22,000,000,000,000.00 or what ever he is able to spend in four more years! If anyone trys to use a little reason, just blast them, you know I won the last election so I can spend my $20,000,000,000,000.00 however I want to and Jay cheers hin on!
td
January 18th, 2013
12:44 pm
Jay,
Since you are using Rasmussen this morning:
“Friday, January 18, 2013
Two-out-of-three Americans recognize that their constitutional right to own a gun was intended to ensure their freedom.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 65% of American Adults think the purpose of the Second Amendment is to make sure that people are able to protect themselves from tyranny. Only 17% disagree, while another 18% are not sure.”
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:44 pm
You must live in isolation???
______
Is that a city in south Georgia. Think I went by there once.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
12:45 pm
makers vs takers
January 18th, 2013
12:34 pm
Yea, we won! Country headed right down the toliet, but Yea we won. A conservative citizen will always be more valuabel than you liberal puke heads! Liberals will get what is coming to them one day, and it will be delivered by the Liberal leaders! Once power has been consolidated and the libveral sheep are no longer needed, they will be removed from society, and this is how it will be explained, ” Certainly you understand the need for you to die, you have been getting so much for free for so long, how can you complain”. Ho-ho, better become an individual and not a member of a group. Better go to work (not a gov’t taker job). You will be the first to go as gov’t needs private sector workers like me to buy your vote with. Boogerman and others are so doomed!
++++++++++++++++++
Here is yet another proof of Dr. Goebbels theory that if you repeat a lie long enough the simple minded will think it truth. Sad isn’t it? I mean on the outside you would think someone bright enough to turn on a computer and type would be able to think………
Unfortunately no. How many have we seen in here today on this thread alone typing the same hysterical lie? Soon they will become violent I predict. They will start killing and Rush will say, “BBut I’m just an entertainers……” while laughing all the way to the bank.
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:45 pm
Two-out-of-three Americans recognize that their constitutional right to own a gun was intended to ensure their freedom.
______
It was included to insure there inalieable right to own and bare arms. And that’s still good law today.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:46 pm
Aren’t you guys (Mick) making assumptions about the rich people he hates so much?
Where do you get this “hate” business? Expecting people who can easily afford to, to cough up a few more quid than they did under a conservative Administration is hell and gone from “hate,” if that’s what you’re basing this on.
And that’s not an “assumption,” that’s what rich people flippin’ TELL US.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2013
12:46 pm
makers vs takers
January 18th, 2013
12:42 pm
Even is this world we live in, I am much happier as a conservative than any liberal. I accept I am responsible for my success and my failures. So, that means I will work for success, not accpet gov’t handouts. Break free of entitlement mentality. I am laughing. Also, bought a new Glock 23 in 40 caliber and will purchase more new guns soon. Better arm yourself liberal- as I stated above, you will be the first to go courtesy of your beloved federal gov’t..
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.
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Try scratching your head and give those other parts a break.
I eat bullies for breakfast.
Democrat
January 18th, 2013
12:46 pm
Please raise the debt ceiling! I don’t work because President Obama will take care of us ! It’s our time to rule all the evil people who have taken everything away from us!
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:47 pm
used to be spread among 16 working folks.
how long ago was that?
Are you suggesting we’d be better off if we worked to return to that?
Ridiculous argument, which is why I continue to harp on it.
/drive-by
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:49 pm
When congress passes a law, it is implied that the President has the right to borrow funds necessary to carry out that law. Otherwise why pass a law.
The President is obligated to enforce and execute the laws passed by Congress. If I was on the Court, I would rule it then follows he is obligated to borrow the money to do so.
Othersiwe, why pass the law.
If congress wants to cut spending they should amend the laws to what we can afford to spend. Not blame the president.
getalife
January 18th, 2013
12:49 pm
Economic numbers still looking good and have a feeling innovation and a new technology is about to take off.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:49 pm
oh, one other thing–
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 65% of American Adults think the purpose of the Second Amendment is to make sure that people are able to protect themselves from tyranny.
Did Rassy go on to ask these Americans if they’d like a pony?
/drive-by for realz now
GT
January 18th, 2013
12:50 pm
We got what was coming to us alright but it was delivered by your man Bush. A private sector that should have gone bankrupt propped up by a government bailout and then blamed on that next government in office to take the blame off the colluders in this crime, Wall Street. Living fat and happy on credit cards and then have the audacity to tell the government to tighten up, never thinking once your money was smoke and mirrors of ridiculously easy to free credit not economic success.
And we did win which seems to have little to do with your thinking, but it will. And the next time you are fat and happy it will be real not on a cooked booked credit scam. Of course you are determine that won’t happen because you are sitting on your stolen money from these scams and the government bailing you out, but time will resolve that. As it will your same traffic jam in Congress. What a party, what a great bunch of selfish fat cats, and you really think you will ever see the White House again?
TBS
January 18th, 2013
12:51 pm
After Rasmussen’s results in November, I am not sure if either side needs to be paying too much attention to him.
Guess he was “over sampling” the other, huh?
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:52 pm
you will be the first to go courtesy of your beloved federal gov’t.
___
Are you saying you are going to start shooting liberals. Sounds like a threat.
td
January 18th, 2013
12:52 pm
“Military spending makes up closer to 24 percent of federal expenditures today. That’s up from the near-term low from 1998 to 2001, when it made up about 20 percent of federal spending. (One contributor to the budget surpluses achieved briefly during the Clinton administration was a peace dividend in the interim between the cold war and the Sept. 11 attacks.) And military spending in the United States has generally been rising relative to inflation and remains very high relative to most other nations. But over the longer term, it has fallen slightly relative to the gross domestic product, and substantially relative to other types of government spending.”
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/what-is-driving-growth-in-government-spending/
“and substantially relative to other types of government spending.”
Yes progressives, MILITARY spending has fallen SUBSTANTIALLY as compared to other government spending.
makers vs takers
January 18th, 2013
12:52 pm
Did someone above say gov’t has been starved? Dang, gov’t is so fat it has diabetes! Want to fix healthcare? Do away with all but CATASTROPHIC health insurance. You take your earned $ to the doctor and pay the doctor with your money. See, then the doctor gets the money directly, not the insurance company. I am sure this will not sit well with liberals who must be “insured” against everything, except they don’t pay for anything including insurance. I and other conservative workers pay for everything. Straight pay to doctors is the solution, but it cuts the gov’t out so a bad idea to a liberal puke.
DannyX
January 18th, 2013
12:53 pm
“makers vs. takers,
Thank you. Love reading the truth!”
Lets get this straight, its ‘takers vs makers’, not ‘makers vs takers’. Us takers own you!
I was buying some free range lobster at the Whole Foods today, some yuppie dude gave me a dirty look because I used food stamps, it made me furious!!! I was on my Obamaphone talking to my BMW mechanic and had to hang up! I put that yuppie in a headlock and punched him in the face about 15 times! “You owe me,” I shouted into his bloody face. I finally let him go, but not before I took forty dollars out of his wallet so I could get me a $25 Papa John pizza. The wimp cried like a baby.
Now make me a sandwich!
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:54 pm
new technology is about to take off.
____
What kind and in which direction. I would like to get in on the ground floor.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 18th, 2013
12:54 pm
New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.
We got our eyes on you Cons. We’re watching…
NOBODYYOUKNOW
January 18th, 2013
12:55 pm
We better get off this party dedication habit. Thats whats wrong with this country now. They sit around and point fingers at everybody else. Someone commented about “old draft dodgeing Bush”. What branch of the military was O’bama in? Clinton? Gore? Romney? What the hell differance does it make? Isn’t it common sense to look at a persons background, education, experiance, and yes their ideology on how to solve problems? And Jay and his buddies always knock FOX network. I would suggest evreyone watch FOX, MSNBC, and as many others as you can to get different opinions. Many most likely don’t remember but some years ago concerned Democrats and Republicans mentioned the comming financial disaster if something isn’t done about the many entitlement programs that we can’t afford. But knowing how most feel (cut their benefits, not mine.) They were all afraid they would not get re-elected if they cut ANY program. So what do they do? They create more entitlements. Run the deficit into trillions and trillions more. Meanwhile the so-called “leaders” in Washington get richer and richer. I can assure you folks when America goes into financial disaster and we average people are suffering those knuckleheads in Washington will be living high on the hog like they always have. My problem with Jay and his buddies in the media is they will continue to demonize anyone conservative and ignore the failed policies of both parties. I will always beleive those in the media should realize the importantance of printing the TRUTH on both sides.And be concerned whats best for our country.
getalife
January 18th, 2013
12:55 pm
“you will be the first to go courtesy of your beloved federal gov’t.”
Don’t insult our troops cons.
td
January 18th, 2013
12:55 pm
“The growth in federal spending on physical infrastructure and on services provided directly by the government like policing and education, has been modest. In fact, federal spending on these categories has declined somewhat as a share of the gross domestic product over the past 40 years.”
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/what-is-driving-growth-in-government-spending/
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
12:56 pm
We spend more on defense than the next eleven countries combined. I think we could cut back some. Like mabe twenty per cent.
td
January 18th, 2013
12:57 pm
“That means most of the growth in federal government spending relative to inflation — and essentially all the growth as a share of the gross domestic product — has been because of the increased expense of entitlement programs.”
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/what-is-driving-growth-in-government-spending/
clem
January 18th, 2013
12:59 pm
wouldn’t be nice if the gop pulled a boortz and just left.
JamVet
January 18th, 2013
1:00 pm
Donovan even suggesting that the neocon’s are pragmatic really does crack me up!
Let’s see, pragmatism GOP style: banning abortion, banning homosexuality, banning labor unions, banning environmentalism, banning science, banning protests and banning capitalism.
Just call them the Ban Party.
Yep, the GOP is swirling down the toilet and they want to take the USA with them.
Ain’t gonna happen, Uncle Sam haters.
Go kiss Donnie’s the Koch Bros. and Mitt’s rings and see if they will save you trickle down idiots!
Toodles! The Obama Recovery calls…
getalife
January 18th, 2013
1:00 pm
The gop refuse to dut defense spending to show they are not seious about our debt.
Our President has cut spending 1.2 trillion and want to cut 4 trillion but the speaker walked away for something that eventually passed.
This shows the gop are just hot air.
td
January 18th, 2013
1:02 pm
“Specifically, overall government spending on entitlement programs increased at a 4.8 annual rate in the 40 years between 1972 and 2011, net of inflation. Health care spending increased at 5.7 percent per year (and federal government spending on health care increased at a 6.7 percent pace). In contrast, the gross domestic product grew at a rate of 2.7 percent over this period, with tax revenues increasing at about the same rate as the G.D.P.”
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/what-is-driving-growth-in-government-spending/
“In contrast, the gross domestic product grew at a rate of 2.7 percent over this period, with tax revenues increasing at about the same rate as the G.D.P.”
There goes that Bush tax cuts killed revenue argument right out the window. We have a spending problem progressives not a revenue problem.
Madmax
January 18th, 2013
1:02 pm
Jay – we have over half the populace trying to moonwalk away from the debt issue. All they are proving is they can’t face reality and this president is leading them like the pied piper. Our total debt as a % of GDP was 67% when Clinton took office and 57% when he left. Geo W. returned it to slightly higher levels when he left office 65-69%. It now stands at 98%. That means that if all of our debt was called, everyone would be left with .02 cents on the dollar of our GDP to distribute to our citizenry. Our debt grew under Clinton by approximately $400 billion (about $1333 per citizen), under Bush by approximately 4.4 trillion (about 14,700 per citizen) and under Obama by approximately 6 trillion now an 10-11 trillion by the time he leaves office (20,000 & 33,333 per citizen) if we continue down this path.
When does the madness stop?
JamVet
January 18th, 2013
1:04 pm
What branch of the military was O’bama in? Clinton? Gore? Romney?
Hello Mr. Can’t See the Forest from the Trees.
The difference is that these men did not play toy soldier and get thousands of Americans killed needlessly by starting an idiotic, lie-filled, botched every step of the way invasion and occupation. OF THE WRONG COUNTRY!
Like I said earlier, the GOP scumbags are nuts if they think the people of this country are just go play stupid like they do and forget all of that.
Neoconservatism deserves to die this slow, painful death we are seeing now.
A demise that I relish every single day…
falconreversesnowbird
January 18th, 2013
1:05 pm
My sister who is a conservative business-woman in GA say’s”You have to eat an elephant one bite at a time”be patient recent changes to the way we deal with fiscal issues will start us off in the right direction,spurring growth but lets not destroy the planet God made in the process peace from a Georgian ex-patriot in Ma
GO Falcons
Jefferson
January 18th, 2013
1:05 pm
Spending is what taxes are for, not to pay interest. Just who was the 1st of the big spenders ? After it was equalized, just who messed up the balance ? Their track record is dismal and only the sheep buy into the myth of trickle down. The GOP caused this problem and stand in the way of the solution.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
Madmax
January 18th, 2013
1:02 pm
Jay – we have over half the populace trying to moonwalk away from the debt issue. All they are proving is they can’t face reality and this president is leading them like the pied piper.
+++++++++++++++++++
No, what we have is way under 40% of Americans so stupid and ate up with hate like you that they can’t face teh reality that their talk radio FOXBOT lies were REJECTED by thinkijg Americans.
Instead they call for secession and civil disobedience and call the ones with sanity and sense all kinds of names and make irrational posts on message boards.
Thanks for reminding us how crazy the losers are…….
Oscar
January 18th, 2013
1:06 pm
The growth in federal spending on physical infrastructure and on services provided directly by the government like policing and education, has been modest.
_______
If we don’t start spending more on infrastructure, research, policing and education we are not going to continue to lead. And the predicted new technology takeoff will occur in some other country. if at all.
Madmax
January 18th, 2013
1:07 pm
Jefferson – it started with Roosevelt. Take a look at our debt history, we were running 3 – 8% before FDR.
Jackie
January 18th, 2013
1:09 pm
Many do not understand what makes up the national debt and how we got to that point.
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
1:11 pm
DannyX @ 12:53: I wanna go shopping at Whole Foods with YOU lol.
Post of the day without a doubt.
Madmax
January 18th, 2013
1:13 pm
Fred – Our federal governmeent has spent over $150000 more on a family of four since than they took in in revenues since Clinton took office and you think I’m looney for saying the spending has to stop? Have a nice moonwalk Fred. Hope you enjoy it up there.