GOP leaders moonwalk away from debt-ceiling Armageddon
Slowly, painfully, political reality has begun to dawn on Washington Republicans and their supporters: If they force a major battle over the debt ceiling — a battle that they have acted oh-so-eager to fight — they are guaranteed to lose, and to lose badly.
Such a battle would be fought against superior forces, and on ill-chosen ground. The president’s approval rating are consistently above 50 percent; Congress has an approval rating of 14 percent. While Republicans still hold the House majority, they lost seats in the 2012 election and acknowledge that they held onto the majority only because of gerrymandering. Majorities of Republican voters reject key proponents of the GOP agenda, including cuts to Social Security and Medicare. In fact, 63 percent of GOP voters say the congressional GOP is out of touch. (That’s a Rasmussen number, by the way.)
And according to a new AP poll, 80 percent of Americans say that refusing to raise the debt ceiling, as House and Senate Republicans have promised to do, would touch off a major economic crisis.
Under those circumstances, threatening to force that major economic crisis unless the president implements politically unpopular policies would be the act of a fool. And fools there no doubt be.
However, a handful of Republican senators have now publicly acknowledged that the party would lose and lose badly by threatening to shut down the government. U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, chair of the House Budget Committee, warned his fellow GOP congressmen at a retreat yesterday that their strategy has to match their capability.
As Politico described his remarks:
“Ryan said Republicans need to come to grips with the fact that they are the only Republicans in power in Washington. In the closed legislative strategy session, he said the GOP should avoid over-promising and under-delivering, according to five sources present. Instead, House Republicans should work to control expectations about what they can extract from Obama, and then people will be pleased by the result.”
The usually bellicose Charles Krauthammer is also a bit of a bellwether. He has been egging the Republicans on for weeks now, pushing them to do battle. (”If we all cliff-dive, Obama gets to preside over yet another recession. It will wreck his second term… You think he wants a second term with a double-dip recession, 9 percent unemployment and a totally gridlocked Congress? Republicans have to stop playing as if they have no cards.”)
Now, even Krauthammer wants to back down from a fight that he suddenly sees can only end badly. “The party establishment,” he writes, “is coming around to the view that if you try to govern from one house — e.g., force spending cuts with cliffhanging brinkmanship — you lose. You not only don’t get the cuts. You get the blame for rattled markets and economic uncertainty. You get humiliated by having to cave in the end. And you get opinion polls ranking you below head lice and colonoscopies in popularity.”
What’s going on here? Why this sudden outburst of strategic sanity? I think the great Samuel Johnson put it best:
“Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.”
– Jay Bookman
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637 comments Add your comment
Loves Me Some Obama Kool-Aid
January 18th, 2013
11:09 am
Charles, you are right. We must take our lumps now but when the chickens come home to roost, it will a tragic day for all Americans, not just Liberals.
td
January 18th, 2013
11:09 am
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:02 am
Who in the heck builds these weapons? Are these people not working JOBS? What jobs do you think these people should have?
The chinese, the British, the Mexicans, the Canadians. THAT’S who build them silly. Not Americans, there’s no profit in Americans working…….. at least not while Obama is in office…….
Yes it is these other countries that build the F-22, F-35, M-1 tanks, M-16’s, missiles, drones. As a Conservative the good thing about cutting the military would be that we are doing away with more union jobs and weakening the Democratic base even more.
JL II
January 18th, 2013
11:10 am
I am a bad small business owner wah wah wah
Steve
January 18th, 2013
11:11 am
Where were you conservatives when your Republican leaders were spending like crazy? Where was the concern about the debt then? I don’t buy this latest propaganda nonsense. Like Fred S said, go take a BASIC macro economics class and then come back and discuss like intelligent adults. Just because someone told you ‘dat da debt be bad’ doesn’t make it a national crisis because Obama is in the White House and spending less than your GOP leaders.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:12 am
Steve, “Obama could walk on water & cure cancer …”
Why don’t you go ahead and give him credit for that too, Steve. You’ve got your head so far up his arse already, another mindless accolade can’t be too far behind.
As to the questions of “Why blah blah blah Bush……?” Bush hasn’t been in office for over 4 years. Time to stop making excuses, show some leadership, and fix the problem. Obama ain’t up for the task. Period.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:12 am
DannyX
January 18th, 2013
11:06 am
Small steps but I think the metrics are suspect, particularly the unemployment numbers utilized. Record corporate profits are a good thing for the stock market since retaining these earnings as opposed to risking new investment domestically is best bet. Apple is holding on to over 100 billion in cash which is projected to get close to 200 billion next year..
Mick
January 18th, 2013
11:12 am
rb
Freebie checks? Never collected one red cent of welfare or food stamps my whole life but I don’t begrudge those that are in need. For the gazillionith time, I will shed no tears for the rich and the four extra pennies of tax on the dollar they will be paying – they damn well can afford it and behind closed doors they mock all you water carriers – pathetic…
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
11:12 am
except for climatology
Cite your evidence.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:12 am
Why must we have one soldier on foreign soil ?
Steve
January 18th, 2013
11:15 am
RB – Obama is showing plenty of leadership, but if Congress refuses to cooperate, what can he do? I think he’s done all he can do and you can google his accomplishments. You do know how to that, right?
Remember – the House holds the purse strings. The House controls spending.
Reality
January 18th, 2013
11:15 am
Why even bother to point fingers now? No one can really change history. Calling names is only a childish endevor.
The focus needs to be on the upcoming BUDGET. This is the plan, approved by Congress (not the President), for spending. If you and/or we want to decrease spending, THIS is where the focus needs to be.
Email your Congressmen about the BUDGET to decrease spending. This is where Congressmen are famous for inserting their special interest ‘pork’ that wastes money.
Dick Cheney's Pacemaker
January 18th, 2013
11:15 am
“Deficits Don’t Matter” until a Democrat is in the White House then, wah wah wah wah
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
11:16 am
Loves Me Some Obama Kool-Aid: “When Conservatives point out (rightly) that Obama has no plan for solving the fiscal crisis”
A little rich, don’t ya think, considering that it was polices very close to Bush that were the very cause of the financial collapse that led to the huge pressures on the budget?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
After reviewing Krauthammer’s comments, his clear position is as follows: If President Obama will be blamed, then crash the economy. However, if Republicans will be blamed, then do not crash the economy.
THIS is your modern Republican Party.
Very well put
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
“Funny. More funny how a 20 year old “science” is predicting outcomes 50-100 years out. Nobody really knows what will happen but it is good we have skeptics that will eventually improve the validity of the progress to date….”
And yet, what this science began predicting back in the early ’80s has come true almost exactly.
It warned of rising temperatures: Check.
Melting glaciers and polar regions: Check.
Increase in weather volatility: Check.
For some three decades you and others have pooh-poohed the accuracy of these scientists and the work, and for three decades they have been proved right and your skepticism has been proved wrong.
Jm
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
Krugman is a Sith Lord
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
CharlesBennett
January 18th, 2013
11:05 am
And what will you libs say to those kids? Or do you even give a hoot about kids anyway?
+++++++++++++++++
Hopefully the libs will have taught their children how to think for themselves and not be complete moronic FXOBOT/Talk radio repeaters who lack the brains to separate truth from lies. Hopefully the lib kids will be bright enough to know that Greece has been a 3rd world Country for over 2500 years and to try to compare their economy to ours is BEYOND STUPID. Something that only someone who lacks the ability to think and parrots FOXBOT lies would do.
Hopefully the “libs” will teach their children about Josef Goebbels and propaganda, about demonizing a “group” to blame all the problems on rather than solve the problems. ‘If we just kill THOSE people, that 47% everything will be alright.”
Thank god there are few folks like you left. Unfortunately a large majority of the ignorant minority live here in Georgia and we are subject to your never ending lies, fear mongering and senseless blatherings………
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:18 am
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:12 am
No reason whatsoever. At least from a taxpayers perspective.
GT
January 18th, 2013
11:18 am
Itchy Finger and with your dribble you say the hell with America, but the GOP has been in that posture ever since you found you couldn’t carry an election any more. That is the reason the polls are in the low teens, you say to hell with America and America says to hell with you.
Jm
January 18th, 2013
11:19 am
Climatology has more cred than Econ
Though even climatology has challenges
Desperado
January 18th, 2013
11:19 am
Jm: you wrote “He has already violated the law by not delivering a budget to congress by the constitutional deadline.” What deadline are you talking about? I don’t see one in the Constitution. Perhaps you could help out by citing the Article and Section. Surely, you must know it, unless, of course, you are one of those who have never actually read the Constitution for which they claim to be the self-appointed protectors.
joshua
January 18th, 2013
11:19 am
@DANNYX You don’y honestly believe that do you. How well do you suppose the job market is doing creating the same amount of jobs 13 months in a row? Let me ask you this if the job market is doing so well why is there over 150,000 people on long term unemployment, meaning they ran out of their allotment and are seeking more from the goverment directly? Sorry but no we are not even creating enough jobs to keep up with population expansion so really there have been no gains in the last 4 years. The housing market bubble as you put it is nothing to brag about either lol it has been shitty for so long you see a 1-2 month improvement and your aboard the “wow look how good we are” train. Now i remember stocks/wallstreet not even 2 weeks ago opening much lower then norm and i also remember several economist saying how we are going to lose any gains we made due to Obama allowing the payroll tax cut to expire but hey i guess you didn’t see your check shrink this month. Again all the issues we face today are due to the decisions of the president and we are not in anyway in good standings. So in light of that i look forward to reading about wars on credit cards, tax cuts for the wealthy even though Obama renewed them etc. and how none of this would be happening if Bush wasn’t president and the GOP were not around
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
11:20 am
JL,
I am not a Republican and I invest in companies that employ tens of thousands of people–companies that have provided access to health care for their employees for decades and have somehow managed to make a profit regardless of the added cost. I’m sure I would not invest in your mismanaged company were you to take it public given your admission that you cannot figure out how to prosper while simultaneously caring adequately for your employees. I sincerely wish your employees better.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:20 am
Mick, “they damn well can afford it”
It takes one pretty damn arrogant jerk to make that claim without a single shred of knowledge about the finances of the people you speak about.
“Freebie checks? Never collected one red cent of welfare or food stamps my whole life” At least when people make that assumption about you, Mick, it doesn’t cost you thousands of dollars you may or may not have. Your arrogant as hell assuption cost “other people” money. Always. It’s the liberal way.
appleseed
January 18th, 2013
11:20 am
moonwalk analogous to crawfishing?just asking you republicans set on your way or no way.
Reality
January 18th, 2013
11:21 am
Any President is limited to what they can do beyond an “executive order.”
A President can attempt to negotiate behind closed doors. President Obama has tried this in the past (early his first term). It did not go well. Many congressmen thought they could bully this “new” President, but it did not work.
A President can go directly to the people so that the people then communicate to their respective congressmen. This was made famous by Reagan. He was great at giving speeches to the American people which then convinced Congress to go along. Whenever President Obama attempts this approach, the con repubs claim/complain that he is ’still campaigning’.
Now, the President is simply saying that the American people have clearly stated their will through the last election (and also through the current polls on issues). What else does Congress need to hear?
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:22 am
td
January 18th, 2013
11:09 am
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:02 am
Who in the heck builds these weapons? Are these people not working JOBS? What jobs do you think these people should have?
The chinese, the British, the Mexicans, the Canadians. THAT’S who build them silly. Not Americans, there’s no profit in Americans working…….. at least not while Obama is in office…….
Yes it is these other countries that build the F-22, F-35, M-1 tanks, M-16’s, missiles, drones. As a Conservative the good thing about cutting the military would be that we are doing away with more union jobs and weakening the Democratic base even more.
++++++++++++++++++
It’s always some evil “group” with you fearful little people isn’t it? the boogey man is “the evil union. No the boogeyman is the “evil lib.” no the boogey man is those “47 percent moochers.” No the boogey man is………. hell who can keep up with all your fears and boogeymen.
Hey do some research on BAE there td. Open your mind, Rush won’t tell you about them……..
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:24 am
JL, you seem to forget that health-care premiums have been outpacing inflation for a long long time, long before ObamaCare passed. Indeed, one of the spurs to final passage of ObamaCare was the announcement by a major insurer that it was jacking up premiums by some 25-30 percent.
You also seem to ignore the documented reality that the federal tax burden on businesses and individuals both is very low when compared to the post-war history. I wish you and your business and its employees all the best, but projecting all of your difficulties onto somebody else does not seem all that helpful.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:25 am
Stevie Ray
and yet neither party has any proposal to diminish our
worldwide military presence and presently is entering
a war in Mali against Islamic rebels…..
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:25 am
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
Wow, Jay that’s some track record..which is debatable BTW..especially in the last 10 years. Anyhow, no disputing that the science is not proven for any of us to know what is going to happen..one thing for certain, predictions 50 years from now
Your a smart guy. As such, you know that skeptism is the foundation of any scientific hypothesis so I’m surprised you don’t welcome it…that’s what real scientist do…
So in the late eighties and early 90’s computer modeling became available…how many variables have they been measuring for the last 20 years?
How you and others can completely put all your eggs in this basket at this stage in the science makes no sense. The only explanation is party dogma…its’ just not cool to be in your camp and question anything..
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:25 am
appleseed
January 18th, 2013
11:20 am
moonwalk analogous to crawfishing?
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dang, thanks for the reminder. Southern Seafood said they were getting live crawfish in this week, I need to check.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
11:26 am
Oct 2, 2008
In 2002, Vice-President Dick Cheney and the Bush administration’s economic team met to discuss a second round of tax cuts, which would follow Bush’s 2001 cuts. At the meeting, “then-Treasury Secretary Paul H. O’Neill pleaded that the government — already running a $158 billion deficit — was careening toward a fiscal crisis.” Allegedly, Cheney replied by saying that “deficits don’t matter.”
Six years later, the Bush administration’s consistent belief that deficits don’t matter has increased the national debt to over $10 trillion. This is the highest dollar amount ever, and pushes the debt to 69% of the gross domestic product, which is the highest percentage since 1955.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
Peadawg
January 18th, 2013
11:26 am
pooh-poohed, Jay? Nice. That made me giggle.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
11:26 am
Stevie@ 11:07
Similarly, nobody really knows what is happening on the future of our economic mess….. we can guess all we want but the trends in spending, ability to tax our way out, and the fact that we will never return to the manufacturing base many think is temporarily absent, suggest no matter what either party suggests, none of same will change anything..
sadly I agree
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:27 am
“For some three decades you and others have pooh-poohed the accuracy of these scientists and the work, and for three decades they have been proved right and your skepticism has been proved wrong.”
Yea, Jay. That’s why they had to stop calling it global warming and start calling it climate change when the data stopped supporting the never ending warming. Now you have us blaming every last storm on the phenomenon even though you all know darn well there have been storms from the beginning of time.
Tell us some more stories about how Bush’s bad environmental policies caused the warming after the ice age killed all the dinosaurs. That’s always a favorite.
landrmc
January 18th, 2013
11:28 am
JL,
Uh, adjust your prices?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
11:29 am
Reality continues to disprove the claims of the extreme right wingnuts over and over again on every front and yet they cling to their fantasies and conspiracies. So very very sad
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
“but projecting all of your difficulties onto somebody else does not seem all that helpful.”
Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush….
Geez…
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
“Wow, Jay that’s some track record..which is debatable BTW..especially in the last 10 years.
No, it is not debatable, and in fact is LESS debatable in the last 10 years. Eight of the nine hottest years on record have come since 2000, and the two hottest years on record — in a virtual tie — occurred in 2005 and 2010.
GT
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
Science to the right is like a lie detector to a theft. Facts tangle up what they are up to so they just say they don’t believe in the facts and live for today. Then they talk about grandchildren yet get mad when O brings children into his conversation as a symbol of the future and how he is protecting it. They get mad when O brings religion into a conversation like they own that too. I haven’t’ quiet figured out what O can say they don’t get mad about, that is their whole stick stay mad and maybe O will go away, maybe the facts will too. Ain’t going to happen, not when you got a 14% approval rating and heading fast for single digits, but there we go again with facts, silly us.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
“but projecting all of your difficulties onto somebody else does not seem all that helpful.”
Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush….
Geez…
Hypocrit in Chief
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies… America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
Barack Obama – 2006
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
Climate change does not matter because no one can undo
what has been done or alter the present to affect the future.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
11:32 am
Jay – For some three decades you and others have pooh-poohed the accuracy of these scientists and the work, and for three decades they have been proved right and your skepticism has been proved wrong
can you link me to successful hindcasting of those models? My google is broken
Living With Open Eyes
January 18th, 2013
11:32 am
Everybody can write all the figures down they want to, and argue until the end of time about whose numbers are right. But until we bring good paying manufacturing jobs back for the 49%, reliance on handouts will never go away and nobody will ever balance the budget. Capitalists who are invested in foreign manufacturing should have to take it on the chin and invest in American manufacturing. The federal government should charge high preventative tariffs on foreign products. Or we can print money and hand it out to the jobless. If we don’t want to provide jobs or handouts for the 49% we had better build ovens like Hitler did because those 49% will murder,rob, or steal to stay alive.
Reality
January 18th, 2013
11:32 am
RB from Gwinnett -
I wish that you and other would STOP with your labels and discuss ISSUES. If you have an idea, it is just an idea. It isn’t liberal, it isn’t conservative, it isn’t right, it isn’t wrong, it is just an idea!
You and others slap a label on something in an effort to discredit it. That is very childish. If you disagree with it, clearly and simply state why you disagree with it. That is the mature way to handle it.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:32 am
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:24 am
I hope we go to single payor soon..the quicker we get there the better.
Average family premiums will increase between 15 to 18K based on current actuarial models i’ve seen. Even assuming those projections are at the mean and we ramp up confidence at 95% (5% chance they are wrong) the number is still staggering.
I don’t trust the CBO for 5 or 10 year projections..not that they are not competent, but the economic growth assumptions and not factoring a margin of error, say for the inevitable unexpected expense (say war, interest expense blah blah blah)render a decision making process based on those numbers more than suspect..
Georgia
January 18th, 2013
11:33 am
Inflationary debt deal coming?
Redcoat
January 18th, 2013
11:34 am
Is the gop still in power?…….who own it now? ……anyone?
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:34 am
Wow RB, your 11:27 was particularly silly. There is no doubt that we are experiencing global warming. Only a complete utter brain washed idiot would try to dispute that. Where the ‘discussion” amongst intelligent folks comes in is how much of a cause we, human, are to it and what if anything we can do to reverse or slow it down………….
You talk radio listening FOXBOTS are so eager to jump to the polar opposite of what any “librul” says that you often fail to pull your head out of your rear long enough to see what it is you are “opposing.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
11:34 am
Climate change does not matter because no one can undo what has been done or alter the present to affect the future.
Sure I mean we had rivers that caught on fire and Love Canal and more environmental disasters….we can do nothing to stop that and to clean up our waterways and air.
And of course there is nothing we can do to stop contributing to climate change. 
Redcoat
January 18th, 2013
11:35 am
* owns
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:37 am
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
Climate change does not matter because no one can undo
what has been done or alter the present to affect the future.
+++++++++++++++++++++
We don’t know that Mr. Frog.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:38 am
Keep Up
and yet climate change continues unabated……..according to science.
Dick Cheney's Pacemaker
January 18th, 2013
11:38 am
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies… America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
Barack Obama – 2006
–
that young whippersnapper was making a point because me and Bushie kept war spending off the books. so we were asking congress to raise the debt ceiling to pay for debts congress didnt approve nor even know about about, who/what/where or how much.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
11:40 am
can you link me to successful hindcasting of those models?
Can you link to your claim of unsuccessful hindcasting because my google’s not broken.
Redcoat
January 18th, 2013
11:40 am
Who controls the sun now?……..anyone? …and why did they “change” it ?
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:40 am
Fred ™
Of course we know that otherwise we would be doing something
that would have affected climate change…….
Mick
January 18th, 2013
11:40 am
rb
You truly are a rube, someone who knows nothing of the wealthy, yet you will say thank you sir, may I carry another? Beyond pathetic! You tools are so worried about their riches, but they’re not because they have people like you to do all the whining and moaning…
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:42 am
Hypocrit in Chief
January 18th, 2013
11:31 am
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies… America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
Barack Obama – 2006
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat history. Edmund Burke
Obama remembers a past mistake and learned from it. What’s YOUR stupid point? Oh wait, you don’t know. You are just repeating Rush or Sean……… or probably both as they say the same things……
The other half of your brain.
January 18th, 2013
11:42 am
Well it didn’t take long for JamitVet to bring RACE into the blog. Please oh Please, go take your MEDS.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
11:42 am
Keep putting forth no effort while cashing those freebie checks
Keep assuming facts not in evidence about those who disagree with you. 14%? do I hear 13%?
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
11:44 am
Reality: ” If you have an idea, it is just an idea. It isn’t liberal, it isn’t conservative, it isn’t right, it isn’t wrong, it is just an idea!
You and others slap a label on something in an effort to discredit it. ”
That’s what ideology does. It provides rubes with a little container, where they can neatly place the various phenomena in the world around them that agitate their minds. It lets them put their addled minds at rest.
Rubes don’t think. They only watch for the positions that FOX News takes and start labeling accordingly.
A rube strictly speaking is mute until FOX tells him what is “liberal” and thus to be opposed.
Jm
January 18th, 2013
11:44 am
Desperado
Combination of the 20th amendment and a 1921 law created the first budget deadline
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
11:44 am
Can you link to your claim of unsuccessful hindcasting because my google’s not broken.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/05/new-peer-reviewed-paper-shows-just-how-bad-the-climate-models-are/#more-28898
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
11:45 am
Well Frog, we have yet to control mankinds contributions to climate change.
But you conveniently ignore what we have accomplished with rivers and land within our own country. We have the ability. Its time to implement and show the will to make the changes needed. If we had addressed these issues 30 years ago as many tried, perhaps we would already be seeing the positive changes.
When have so many Americans become such quitters?
Jm
January 18th, 2013
11:45 am
Desperado
Google is your friend
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
11:48 am
Given Republican’s concession that they cannot even do anything about guns, it is no wonder that they have also thrown up their hands to doing anything about anything. They are the do-nothings for good reason. How they manage to accomplish each breath is surely nothing short of miraculous or at least it best be given that they don’t do math or science.
The other half of your brain.
January 18th, 2013
11:48 am
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
“Funny. More funny how a 20 year old “science” is predicting outcomes 50-100 years out. Nobody really knows what will happen but it is good we have skeptics that will eventually improve the validity of the progress to date….”
And yet, what this science began predicting back in the early ’80s has come true almost exactly.
It warned of rising temperatures: Check.
Melting glaciers and polar regions: Check.
Increase in weather volatility: Check.
For some three decades you and others have pooh-poohed the accuracy of these scientists and the work, and for three decades they have been proved right and your skepticism has been proved wrong.
” Our scientists have history & data that goes back Millions of years and the libs are worried about 10 years, how pathetic.
Al Whore is still laughing all the way to the bank.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:48 am
Reality, “You and others slap a label on something in an effort to discredit it.”
From Mick – “You truly are a rube,”
From Fred – “You talk radio listening FOXBOTS”
Gee, Reality, I don’t seem to notice you chastising any of your fellow liberals for anything. Could it be you only have contempt for those who dare oppose the liberal crisis ofthe the day?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:48 am
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
11:40 am
Here you go..also, bear in mind that critics have not gotten many research grants lately but that trend hopefully is changing course:
Why are you guys so afraid of healthy skeptism? That’s science so supporting early hypotheses without continued challenge suggest you are not a science guy..after all since you esponge the most important part of the scientific process..
http://fabiusmaximus.com/2012/02/03/34885/
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
11:50 am
Obama remembers a past mistake and learned from it.
Moreover: This incessant need by some to re-post that 2006 Obama quote is quite telling.
It indicates that such people seem to think that they’ve got a magic bullet answer to accusations that the GOP is being irresponsible; it indicates that they think their opposition has never heard the quote, or are somehow deeply ashamed of it; it indicates, moreover, that they think their opposition can’t distinguish between a symbolic vote cast by a freshman Senator, and a years-long campaign of threatening to blow up the economy.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:50 am
Keep Up
You fail to recognize that the improvements mentioned are
environmental short term and do not address climate change
and the climate scientists have not outlined a program
to affect climate change and many are not convinced that
it can be reversed.
Mick
January 18th, 2013
11:51 am
rb
Nice of you to acknowledge your reality…
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:52 am
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:40 am
Fred ™
Of course we know that otherwise we would be doing something
that would have affected climate change…….
+++++++++++++++
Negative Mr. Frog. Groupsare trying to reduce greenhouse gases and carbon footprints and stuff like that. We are researching.
You might have given up but we haven’t.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
11:53 am
The more moreover the merrier? feh. sorry about that rhetorical redundancy, @ 11.50
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2013
11:53 am
Doom — “I got my Series 7 back.Knocked out it and the 63 last week.”
Good on ya! Congrats!
Now you must only use your new powers for GOOD.
Never4getW
January 18th, 2013
11:53 am
Have any of you conservative geniuses thought about how many people we will have on Military Retirement in the coming years b/c of their injuries? Do you think that will be free?
Do you really think getting rid of government agencies and programs will save money? Those are jobs that don’t pay much, but that money goes into the economy, not into a CEO’s offshore account.
Is emergency room care cheaper than a planned visit to a “small business” doctor?
BO is so much smarter than you….if you were smarter, you would be embarrassed,
The other half of your brain.
January 18th, 2013
11:54 am
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
11:50 am
Obama remembers a past mistake and learned from it.
Moreover: This incessant need by some to re-post that 2006 Obama quote is quite telling.
It indicates that such people seem to think that they’ve got a magic bullet answer to accusations that the GOP is being irresponsible; it indicates that they think their opposition has never heard the quote, or are somehow deeply ashamed of it; it indicates, moreover, that they think their opposition can’t distinguish between a symbolic vote cast by a freshman Senator, and a years-long campaign of threatening to blow up the economy.
” CODE, short version, it’s ok for Obama to say it and not ok for a con “
TBone
January 18th, 2013
11:54 am
Fred I suspect that you have quite the inflated opinion of your intellectual prowess. But you do understand that the gubmint does not create wealth; it has resorted to redistributing it. That can’t be sustained.
dbm
January 18th, 2013
11:54 am
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
11:27 am
The point has always been that the average temperature of the Earth is increasing over the years and that this will have a variety of effects on climate, including an increase in various kinds of extreme weather. The data has continued to support this, more and more as time passes. The term “global warming” emphasized the underlying process and the term “climate change” is more general. They do not represent a contradiction or a change in position. The point is not that every last storm is due to this process, but that the increase, in the long run, in the number and severity of storms is.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
Fred ™
You might have given up but we haven’t.
…………………………………………….
I quit smoking. Keep up was right, I am a quitter.
appleseed
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
All this rain has to be Obama’s fault.How else we get black ice?
Yeah Fred and the Jolly R has the fresh crawfish also.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
Do conservatives have selective memory or what?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
Frog, the process is first to STOP making it worse and to reduce the man made component while answers to reduce are researched.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
(used to have 16 employed to support 1 retiree…it will be 2:1 in no time)
Stevie, you know I don’t think you’re a total lost cause, but when you use a ridiculous worker : recipient ratio from the very start of the program in an effort to make it seem that SS is in some kind of “crisis,” you’re really not helping yourself.
GT
January 18th, 2013
11:57 am
Leadership failure….
Abe Lincoln was considered our best president by most observers yet he couldn’t convince the south to stay in the union. Do you consider that leadership failure or just immoral and stupid resistance from the opposition? This is very similar; a cloister of minority fanatics with mostly hidden agendas of immorality sabotages the country for their selfishness. A president whether he be Lincoln or Obama should have the right to assume patriotism, and when the individual or state is above the well being of the country they have violated this pledge of patriotism. This is no more a leadership problem than a bank robber is a leadership problem caused by the police. If the police allow bank robbery they have no leadership failure and if Obama allows ransom demands for radical and anti American causes he has no leadership failure?
OedipusTax
January 18th, 2013
11:58 am
The inability of our government to live within its means is a historical disgrace.
Puny little pukes like Jay Bookman applauding the greed of government is obscene.
Obama voters are borrowing addicts that would rather spend for their addictions today, and let the future of our children be damned.
Jay Bookman, and malignant spenders like him and Obama, are going to bring hell to pay when the bill for their selfishness comes due.
barking frog
January 18th, 2013
11:59 am
Keep Up
and after 30 years of research what in the process has STOPPED ?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
12:00 pm
JAY/TAXPAYER
Gee, do you remember blood letting, rain following the plow, heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones, there was a Harvard heart researcher in 1981 who faked data….NCI subsequently found each of his 200 papers materially flawed, cold fusion, Sagans erroneous climate data used for his “nuclear winter” forecast, electro-magnetic (power lines) link to cancer, NYT’s suggestion that an asteroid was gonna make the sky fall in 2028, breast implants causing cancer and of course Y2K…what if the scientific process of skepticism was suppressed on these issues?
Moderate Line
January 18th, 2013
12:00 pm
Jay
January 18th, 2013
11:17 am
“Funny. More funny how a 20 year old “science” is predicting outcomes 50-100 years out. Nobody really knows what will happen but it is good we have skeptics that will eventually improve the validity of the progress to date….”
And yet, what this science began predicting back in the early ’80s has come true almost exactly.
It warned of rising temperatures: Check.
Melting glaciers and polar regions: Check.
Increase in weather volatility: Check.
For some three decades you and others have pooh-poohed the accuracy of these scientists and the work, and for three decades they have been proved right and your skepticism has been proved wrong.
++++++
Jay, I believe that global warming is happening. Also, I believe that global warming is caused by humans.
But I also believe descent is important in politics and science. It is appropriate to say that climatologist have largely predicted what has occurring but using terms like “pooh-poohed” makes it look like authority whether science or politics is unquestionable. Yikes! I thought liberals believed in descent.
By making an argument personal you shift the focus from the facts to emotions and if the facts are on your side there is really no need to do that.
Here is a FACT worth considering despite drops in CO2 emission by the US emissions in the world CO2 emissions are still rising. Why? Because China is the worlds largest CO2 emitter and their CO2emissions are rising.
Europe cut CO2 emission by 1.9% while the US cut it by 1.7% while CO2 emissions rose globally by 3.2%.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/2011-global-co2-emissions-china_n_1542785.html
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
Hey, you guys (and you know who you are) who feel compelled to quote someone else’s ENTIRE post, PLUS the name / date / time thingie?
’sup with that? It’s kind of annoying.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
12:02 pm
In short, Erwin is apparently saddened by the fact that climate models are not capable of hindcasting the temperature in his kitchen thirty years ago.
Really, Erwin. Get a life.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
12:03 pm
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
11:56 am
How you can miss the meaning behind that fact speaks volumes..
Read up on it..
getalife
January 18th, 2013
12:04 pm
Just another huge defeat for our cons.
Mick
January 18th, 2013
12:04 pm
oedipus
Break down the debt from the past decade please; we are all part of the same hypocrisy, just don’t think yours smells any better…
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2013
12:04 pm
RB — “As to the questions of “Why blah blah blah Bush……?” Bush hasn’t been in office for over 4 years. Time to stop making excuses, show some leadership, and fix the problem. Obama ain’t up for the task. Period.”
Corollary: GA Republicans have had *ten* years, so they’re not up to the task either.
Period.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
12:07 pm
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
12:01 pm
Its tough to have data you don’t like given in double doses..:-)
Dick Cheney's Pacemaker
January 18th, 2013
12:08 pm
The first inauguration of Abraham Lincoln as the 16th President of the United States took place on March 4, 1861
On December 20, 1860, South Carolina became the first Southern state to declare its secession
Google, neocons shoud use it to debunk themselves and their spew
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
12:08 pm
In short, Erwin is apparently saddened by the fact that climate models are not capable of hindcasting the temperature in his kitchen thirty years ago. Really, Erwin. Get a life.
not saddened by it all…but, if the model isn’t capable of hindcasting the temp in my kitchen 30 yrs ago, why should I believe what it forecasts 30 yrs from now?