GOP leaders moonwalk away from debt-ceiling Armageddon
Slowly, painfully, political reality has begun to dawn on Washington Republicans and their supporters: If they force a major battle over the debt ceiling — a battle that they have acted oh-so-eager to fight — they are guaranteed to lose, and to lose badly.
Such a battle would be fought against superior forces, and on ill-chosen ground. The president’s approval rating are consistently above 50 percent; Congress has an approval rating of 14 percent. While Republicans still hold the House majority, they lost seats in the 2012 election and acknowledge that they held onto the majority only because of gerrymandering. Majorities of Republican voters reject key proponents of the GOP agenda, including cuts to Social Security and Medicare. In fact, 63 percent of GOP voters say the congressional GOP is out of touch. (That’s a Rasmussen number, by the way.)
And according to a new AP poll, 80 percent of Americans say that refusing to raise the debt ceiling, as House and Senate Republicans have promised to do, would touch off a major economic crisis.
Under those circumstances, threatening to force that major economic crisis unless the president implements politically unpopular policies would be the act of a fool. And fools there no doubt be.
However, a handful of Republican senators have now publicly acknowledged that the party would lose and lose badly by threatening to shut down the government. U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, chair of the House Budget Committee, warned his fellow GOP congressmen at a retreat yesterday that their strategy has to match their capability.
As Politico described his remarks:
“Ryan said Republicans need to come to grips with the fact that they are the only Republicans in power in Washington. In the closed legislative strategy session, he said the GOP should avoid over-promising and under-delivering, according to five sources present. Instead, House Republicans should work to control expectations about what they can extract from Obama, and then people will be pleased by the result.”
The usually bellicose Charles Krauthammer is also a bit of a bellwether. He has been egging the Republicans on for weeks now, pushing them to do battle. (”If we all cliff-dive, Obama gets to preside over yet another recession. It will wreck his second term… You think he wants a second term with a double-dip recession, 9 percent unemployment and a totally gridlocked Congress? Republicans have to stop playing as if they have no cards.”)
Now, even Krauthammer wants to back down from a fight that he suddenly sees can only end badly. “The party establishment,” he writes, “is coming around to the view that if you try to govern from one house — e.g., force spending cuts with cliffhanging brinkmanship — you lose. You not only don’t get the cuts. You get the blame for rattled markets and economic uncertainty. You get humiliated by having to cave in the end. And you get opinion polls ranking you below head lice and colonoscopies in popularity.”
What’s going on here? Why this sudden outburst of strategic sanity? I think the great Samuel Johnson put it best:
“Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.”
– Jay Bookman
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637 comments Add your comment
Lt Col Razorback
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
To: Corbin Sharpe,
Can’t you offer something more imaginative than –
“How to pay for it? I’d start with cuts in Defense and large corporation subsidies ….” ?
There is only one true purpose for a government and that purpose is to defend the nation. “Freedom isn’t free.”
Without a strong and viable military, government cannot uphold that purpose. Do you expect the President, his cabinet, and the members of Congress to take up arms to defend us?
It ain’t going to happen!
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
Obama is always around the 50% mark and that is far from good lol
Compared to what?
Here’s my oft-linked Gallup Presidential approval center thingie.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Compare him to Clinton or Bush, the last two two-termers. His first term was a bit better than the former (generally), lower than the latter, although it’s about neck and neck with GWB of late.
(and keep in mind, Gallup has been consistently over-sampling Republicans, to the point where they know it’s an issue and they’ve been trying to correct it of late.)
Given how crap/sluggish the economy has been (thank you, idiot tightwad Congress), 50% is pretty damn good. And again, that’s Gallup–others have him a few points higher, but I like Gallup since they have such a great historical database to draw from, for comparison.
Lt Col Razorback
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
I forgot – It ain’t going to happen because our illustrous President wants to take away all of our guns!!!
mike
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
Unbelieveable that the liberals cannot see reality. Common sense is a gift all of us are not granted. Just look around and you realize the idiots out there are in a cloud.
The idiot was put into office to ruin this country and if you cannot see this, then heaven help us.
Enough said.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
Butch Cassidy,
I got my Series 7 back.Knocked out it and the 63 last week. I’m a dangerous man now.
td
January 18th, 2013
10:35 am
Jay
January 18th, 2013
9:46 am
Just to expand on RB’s thought, from a newly released Wall Street Journal/NBC poll:
Just 26 percent of Americans have a positive view of the Republican Party; 49 percent have a negative view.
The comparable numbers for Democrats are 44 percent positive, 38 percent negative.
And yes, I know, it’s all the “unskewed” media’s fault. If only more people lived within the reality-free zone created by having Fox News on 24 hours a day, things would be different.
And when you read the previous polls and listen to Chuck Todd you will find that the approval rating drop has come from Republicans. Could that be because the Republicans are blaming Congressional Republicans for NOT cutting spending and for raising taxes?
Throwing out numbers without context is making you not look as smart as we both know you are.
JL
January 18th, 2013
10:35 am
While there are many to blame and lots of fingers to point, that doesn’t get us on a path to a solution. The facts are that, as a nation, we continue to spend more money than we have in our bank account which is something that none of us as individuals can do. We spend this money to support more and more social programs and demand that the people who have worked hard and risked everything to be successful, pay for these ever increasing entitlements. We are moving quickly down the path of a majority of the people being supported by the government. The more that people understand that they can vote themselves more money, the deeper we get in debt. Obama has capitalized on this philosophy of wealth redistribution and motivated a majority of the people to vote for him because he promises to take other people’s money and give it to those that would support him. This will lead to financial ruin and the death of our democracy. We will, in the not so distant future, be in the same position as Greece where people are protesting and rioting because the money ran out and they will no longer be getting their monetary support from the government as was promised when they voted for thier leaders. Promises for government support for the majority of the people are empty promises that cannot be fulfilled in the long run. They are only short term promises to get someone elected. The people of this great nation are going to have to come together in an understanding that we cannot support the majority of the nation in a sustainable fashion. We have now raised taxes on the wealthy which gives us enough money to run the government for 14 additional days a year. That will do little to solve the spending problem. It is time to make the tough spending cuts that are required to sustain the financial viability of this nation.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
10:35 am
Pragmatically speaking, Republicans are losers.
joshua
January 18th, 2013
10:36 am
@ Mitch those tax cuts that were approved by a Dem senate and house and renewed under Obama? Ya thought so but feel free to keep blaming Bush 4 yrs later.
Jim
January 18th, 2013
10:36 am
Dogglebugger the prez really does not believe there is a spending prioblem. Wake up and pay attention to what is going on if you want to contribute here. He has stated there is no spening issue and has no intention of cutting back
Steve
January 18th, 2013
10:36 am
What are you conservatives going to do if the housing market continues to grow and the economy improves over the next four years? That will mean more tax revenue which will also mean a lowering of the deficit. Will you then be whining about how “horrible” and “devastating” Obama is?
Sam
January 18th, 2013
10:36 am
It’s about time Republicans admit they are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Republicans should pass Obama’s Jobs bill from 2010, allow Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices, allow for a public option for health insurance, make it where no person or corporation has zero+ tax liability while making $billions, raise the taxable threshold for social security and cut our excessive military spending. With the Republican congress having the lowest approval rating in history you would think they would pass bills to make them look more responsible. Obama isn’t running again so killing the economy to punish Obama is foolish.
Jefferson
January 18th, 2013
10:37 am
The tax rates will have to return to Clinton era rates is the debt is to be reduced. Nothing will change this fact, ever.
landrmc
January 18th, 2013
10:38 am
ONE President of ONE party during TWO administrations took the country into TWO wars, declared the costs of those wars off-budget, and ADDED another unpaid for ‘entitlement’ (Medicare prescriptions). ONE President of ONE party took these actions even though the increased costs of the baby-boomer generation’s retirement has been known for decades. Did ONE President of ONE party — handed a federal budget producing surpluses — take any actions such as paying down the federal debt to begin preparing the country for these rising costs? Nope. That ONE President of ONE party CUT TAXES TWICE, further enriching 1% of the population. Its laughable that ONE party, whose economic policies and fiscal practices caused the worst recession since the Great Depression (their economic policies caused that disaster, too), now claims to be the party of fiscal prudence.
Proud Liberal
January 18th, 2013
10:38 am
The president continues to spend ,spend ,spend ? Yes he does, he is paying the bills that George W. Bush incurred when he put 2 unneeded wars on a credit card. Someone has to pay the bills, and he is doing it. If he had some help from the Republicans we wouldn’t be in this mess. The only thing the Republicans want is to make President Obama fail miserably so the Republicans can take back the Whitehouse. The Republicans have nothing to offer but trying to make Obama fail.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
10:39 am
JL – you do realize that if the economy improves, and if we actually spent our money on infrastructure, which creates jobs, which gets people OFF of assistance, that it’s a win win for everyone? More jobs, better economy also means more tax revenue going towards the debt. We can’t get there if conservatives keep pushing “austerity” while they lock themselves into their wealthy gated communities while the rest of us decay.
AWJ
January 18th, 2013
10:39 am
It is simple Jay..In the past the GOP has come to the table on their part of the “compromise” by not extending Bush tax cuts to everyone, raising the debt ceiling on previous occasion with the “compromise” from BHO being to reduce the deficit. The only problem is that BHO, Reid, Pelosi, etc. never keep their word in the balanced equation formula that goes along with the raising of the debt celing and other compromises across the asile. They are drawing a line in the sand because BHO has not kept his word (imagine that) from previous talks. It may be true that a “majority” of Americans don’t want cuts to SS or Medicare, but the “majority” of Americans did not favor Obamacare and close to a majority (if not a majority) want it repealed. Also as you are well aware, the structure of our country’s government is not a strict majority rules. Just because my 2 sons (majority) want to eat candy for dinner does not mean that is what I should do. I should do what is right for the future of their eating habits, as much the same that the GOP is (at least trying) to address the fact that we have a HUGE spending problem created during the last 13 years. If BHO really cared about “the children” as he professes to with his “not gonna do a thing to stop viloent attacks” gun legislation, he would actually address the mountain of debt they will have to pay back because of the previous generations.
Anyone that belives we do not need to address spending is in denial. Obviously the left and BHO are not willing to address it (even though they said the would…Hmm not keeping their word again…a pattern!) so the GOP is at least attempting to bring it to the table. This “debt ceiling crisis” is strickly the result of one BHO and his party not keeping their word from previous negociations….We need to wake up and realize that our politicians (both sides) are sending this country straight to hell and don’t care. Maybe a good debt ceiling freeze or failing off the next cliff might be what it takes for this country to realize that we need serious change on both sides of the aisle.
I agree with you that the GOP is out of touch with their base and the middle. In talking to democrats and others that have problems with the GOP. I think the media and the left have labled the GOP something they are not. The GOP allowed this to happen and need to truly communicate what they represent and how the plan to do it, while fighting the smear and lies perpetuated by the left.
Good day friend!
Jim
January 18th, 2013
10:39 am
taxpayer… pragmatically speaking your an idiot for saying that. Whats your basis for that comment? The fact that repubs dont give handouts for votes is not a reason for being loosers
Jm
January 18th, 2013
10:39 am
Mick
Sorry pal, straight up serious
Readjust your antennae
Zack Shoemaker
January 18th, 2013
10:40 am
You’re living in a dream world if you think we can keep spending and keep raising the limit like this. The two-party system must be voted out.
TawnyAngel
January 18th, 2013
10:41 am
This must be from the liberal media.
Votting for free money is a treasonous act; High Treaon
Job Creator
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
It would be best for the Republicans to back off and let the President pursue his agenda. He won the election – whether we like it or not. Complaining will accomplish nothing.
More importantly the US debt is a self correcting problem requiring no action from either political party to correct. World financial markets will over time reduce US govt access to credit markets to zero. If you can no longer borrow money you can’t spend it.
This will be the most painful method of solving the problem but it will eventually happen regardless of what the US govt does.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
Man, you can almost picture Jay running around the AJC with pom poms wearing a cheerleaders outfit these days
naw, that’s your side’s schtick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt_YcQlYxyY
(it never gets old, that one.)
AkCoyote
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
Excellent!! It will just speed up the time until TEOTWAWKI!!
Moderate Line
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
lbh
January 18th, 2013
10:29 am
As I recall, Republicans got us into this debt/spending crisis. Obama does have
solutions, ones that would be fair to all Americans. Let’s give him an honest chance to try them.
If he fails, I’m sure the Republicans will live to fight another day.
+++++++
I believe to be Republicans have a huge responsibility when it comes to debt/spending. The tax revenues according to the OMB tables went from 20.6% of GDP to 17.6% right before the recession(200&). However, GDP spending under Bush average less than 20%. Our current revenues are at 15.4%. Long term spending as far out as 2017 is over 22%.
Now it is easy to say that Republicans are to blame or Democrats are to blame but the truth is BOTH are to blame. It is hard to blame Republicans and two wars for deficits in 2017. Much of spending in 2017 concern programs which were enacted long before Bush and it is not Obama’s fault either. However, Bush and Republicans made the problem worse by cutting taxes and Obama and Democrats are ignoring. Read Krugman’s article. He is essentially throwing these programs under the table. He is basically saying don’t worry about the problem because it is far into the future. In other words it is your kids problem.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
Jarhead: “Conservatism is a political philosophy, Liberalism seems more like a religion to me. Liberalism depends on leadership”
Depends on what you mean by “conservatism”. In the strict sense, you’re right. Movement conservatives base their views on a philosophy, while liberalism is a much more disparate grouping, although it too has a long intellectual lineage. Conservatism is ultimately however a reaction to liberalism, or progress itself. Without that, conservatism is at sea, without rudder, purposeless. Even a conservative warrior like Irving Kristol admitted as much late in his life during the Bush years of conservative hegemony over the nation’s political and cultural life. Without the thrill of battle, he noted, a conservative has little to do but just retreat to a corner of reflection and withdraw.
AWJ
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
It is simple Jay..In the past the GOP has come to the table on their part of the “compromise” by not extending Bush tax cuts to everyone, raising the debt ceiling on previous occasion with the “compromise” from BHO being to reduce the deficit. The only problem is that BHO, Reid, Pelosi, etc. never keep their word in the balanced equation formula that goes along with the raising of the debt celing and other compromises across the asile. They are drawing a line in the sand because BHO has not kept his word (imagine that) from previous talks. It may be true that a “majority” of Americans don’t want cuts to SS or Medicare, but the “majority” of Americans did not favor Obamacare and close to a majority (if not a majority) want it repealed. Also as you are well aware, the structure of our country’s government is not a strict majority rules. Just because my 2 sons (majority) want to eat candy for dinner does not mean that is what I should do. I should do what is right for the future of their eating habits, as much the same that the GOP is (at least trying) to address the fact that we have a HUGE spending problem created during the last 13 years. If BHO really cared about “the children” as he professes to with his “not gonna do a thing to stop viloent attacks” gun legislation, he would actually address the mountain of debt they will have to pay back because of the previous generations.
Anyone that belives we do not need to address spending is in denial. Obviously the left and BHO are not willing to address it (even though they said the would…Hmm not keeping their word again…a pattern!) so the GOP is at least attempting to bring it to the table. This “debt ceiling crisis” is strickly the result of one BHO and his party not keeping their word from previous negociations….We need to wake up and realize that our politicians (both sides) are sending this country straight to hell and don’t care. Maybe a good debt ceiling freeze or failing off the next cliff might be what it takes for this country to realize that we need serious change on both sides of the aisle.
I agree with you that the GOP is out of touch with their base and the middle. In talking to democrats and others that have problems with the GOP. I think the media and the left have labled the GOP something they are not. The GOP allowed this to happen and need to truly communicate what they represent and how the plan to do it, while fighting the smear and lies perpetuated by the left.
Jm
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
Zack
You prefer a monopoly on politics?
CUTI
January 18th, 2013
10:42 am
vinny,no clue,you are just some kind of airhead.you did not know what you talked about.
C Miller
January 18th, 2013
10:43 am
Have Boehner give the D’s about 35 votes, while the rest of the party votes no. Let the Democratic House, Senate and White House be held 100% accountable for raising the ceiling, and recognize them for the party of spenders and entitlements that they have been for the past 4 years. Alternatively, raise the ceiling to cover the value of debt interest payments, let us meet our bond obligations (protect the credit rating) and then let O figure out how to pay for all the Koolaid. And you think times are difficult now….. China will eventually cut the credit card.
td
January 18th, 2013
10:43 am
Jefferson
January 18th, 2013
10:37 am
The tax rates will have to return to Clinton era rates is the debt is to be reduced. Nothing will change this fact, ever.
Not if spending does not return to Clinton levels as well.
Dough2
January 18th, 2013
10:43 am
When will Republicans come forward with their plan to cut entitlements. Put up or shut up.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2013
10:43 am
Mick, “Do you really, really, believe half the krapola you put up? ”
Do I believe people are voting themselves plunder from the public treasury while Obama and the libs promise them they’ll fleece the evil rich people to pay the bills while all along knowing the tax increase he demanded was nothing more than a publicity stunt? Yes. If you haven’t figured it out yet, you likely never will.
Keep putting forth no effort while cashing those freebie checks though, Mick. You’ll stop being poor in no time.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
10:43 am
Obama could walk on water & cure cancer and the GOP/conservatives would find ways to hate and condemn that.
jim fields
January 18th, 2013
10:44 am
I don’t know about Vinny, but he is totally correct in his observation of what this president represents. He would not have been elected for dog catcher in Illinois, if it wasn’t for welfare receivers, and a large portion of two minorities that live off of public funding. Like Mitt Romney correctly stated, obama starts out with a 47% advantage, and the rest of us tax payors provide for the payees.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
10:45 am
Economics is a step above alchemy
Economists are like the weather man…they can tell us what happened yesterday
webuiltitblog.com
January 18th, 2013
10:46 am
Withholding approval of the debt ceiling increase is the only leverage GOP has to force President Obama and liberal Dems to reduce spending and $16 trillion debt. If we don’t do that we will end up like Greece and the rest of Western Europe. This is not opinion; one can see empirical evidence by looking at those countries’ deteriorating economies. You may recall that originally spending cuts were supposed to be enacted in conjunction with the recent tax increases. If they’re not enacted now, then when?
yuzeyurbrane
January 18th, 2013
10:46 am
Jay, I hope your analysis is correct. From what is leaking out of the Republican retreat in Williamsburg, it sounds like they could agree on nothing except further attempts to rig voting—this time the Electoral College. Actually, it exposes another flaw in the Electoral College system—it is subject to manipulation by those who do not believe in democracy. If you really want to be fair, it should be thrown out and replaced by a radical concept–one man, one vote.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
10:46 am
Jim,
The Republicans lost or were you not paying attention during the last election. Pragmatically speaking, Republicans are losers. Own it.
Moderate Line
January 18th, 2013
10:46 am
O.K., you can argue that the adjustment to an aging population would be smoother if we commit to a glide path of benefit cuts now. On the other hand, by moving too soon we might lock in benefit cuts that turn out not to have been necessary. And much the same logic applies to Medicare. So there’s a reasonable argument for leaving the question of how to deal with future problems up to future politicians.
+++++
This is completely irresponsible.
Tom Mariner
January 18th, 2013
10:47 am
It takes two to tango. The GOP Congress is not “moonwalking” as the quasi-clever headline suggests. The House has politely asked the President “How much additional spending do you suggest and how long are you going to need it for?” The President refuses to answer so the House has no clue how to write the debt ceiling legislation.
How about a headline that says “GOP leaders ask President how much spending, but he’s mute”?
To be factual, this whole public argument is just a political campaign ploy aimed at getting the House back in the hands of the fanatically loyal Nancy Pelosi. So our country can once again bypass Congress and we can all live according to the wise, but imperial, leader who knows much better than those stupid Congress men and women who were elected by their communities. Interestingly, Congress has Constitutional control of the purse strings — I think I am seeing why.
Ed
January 18th, 2013
10:47 am
Bring on the third party! Yes it is over for Republicans! By showing that you are scared to fight for what you believe in (so you say) America is drowning in debt and your party is not even willing to stand up for your own principals. The crazy thing is that all you have to do is not cave and and you could win this fight, but no you guys are self destructing before our eyes with stupidity in leadership! How in the world can anyone who honestly believes that Obama is evil and his ways are wrong and will ruin America then turn tale and vote for him! Thank God we had Patriots who formed this Government stand up to King George – What would we be today if they said things but didn’t stand up against the things they didn’t believe in! I guess we would be having Tea now! Good Bye Republicans!
Cutty
January 18th, 2013
10:47 am
Speaking of moonwalking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_3v-_p3ESo
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
10:48 am
Hind sight is 20-20 regardless of the profession.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
10:49 am
What are you conservatives going to do if the housing market continues to grow and the economy improves over the next four years? That will mean more tax revenue which will also mean a lowering of the deficit.
I’m pretty sure their strateegery will be to continue breaking things and inflicting as much pain as possible on the Poors and the Olds, and hope that a Democratic President will do something stupid like invade the wrong country.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
10:49 am
sock puppet Friday?
Jeff Wetherbee
January 18th, 2013
10:49 am
Keep in mind most of Jay and Obama’s cheerleaders pay no federal taxes in the first place. They are as dependent on the government for their survival as a prostitute is on her “manager”. A nation of failed whores can hardly be expected to understand or care about fiscal responsibility. As long as the check keeps coming in the mail, “Americant’s”, my term for the freeloaders among us, could care less about runaway government spending.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
10:49 am
Steve
January 18th, 2013
10:39 am
Seems to me that “austerity” is a bit dramatic..certainly relative to the actual cuts suggested compared to the “austerity” of Europe.
Do you really think we can get out of this financial spiral 100% on the backs of less than 10% of the taxpaying population?
We can’t sustain defense, medicare, social security and PelosiCare no matter how much we tax. We are spending 40% more than we collect and that won’t change soon.
At what point to our politicians get the stones to make difficult decisions? We can go back to top bracket of 90% but sans unrealistic economic growth combined with intelligent, non-dramatized spending discipline…the latter is getting no traction…
Vadergnome
January 18th, 2013
10:50 am
Vinny,
“Only the Sith deal in absolutes.”
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
10:50 am
I should add, conservatives will get a lot of help in hurting the Poors and the Olds from Democrats, who generally want to hurt them as well, only not quite as much.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
10:50 am
TawnyAngel
January 18th, 2013
10:41 am
This must be from the liberal media.
Votting for free money is a treasonous act; High Treaon
++++++++++++++++
Cool. Do we start the Executions with Bush? i mean Ronnie Reagan is dead so we can’t execute THAT traitor for his free spending. I guess we COULD dig him up and desecrate that of his corpse that hasn’t rotted away yet if it makes you happy though……..
Moderate Line
January 18th, 2013
10:51 am
Moderate Line
January 18th, 2013
10:46 am
O.K., you can argue that the adjustment to an aging population would be smoother if we commit to a glide path of benefit cuts now. On the other hand, by moving too soon we might lock in benefit cuts that turn out not to have been necessary. And much the same logic applies to Medicare. So there’s a reasonable argument for leaving the question of how to deal with future problems up to future politicians.
+++++
This is completely irresponsible.
This was from Paul Krugman.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/18/opinion/krugman-the-dwindling-deficit.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
MANGLER
January 18th, 2013
10:51 am
They truly are still stuck on the guns and butter version of the economy. You produce one or the other. And historically, the guns portion has led to prosperity and we run low on the butter.
However, that economy doesn’t exist any more. There is way more butter in the mix today. But the overall theories are still based on WW2 ideas of wartime spending. It’s why they want to expand the defense budget all the time.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
10:51 am
I’m smelling a Dem Congress in 2014 and landslide Dem win in 2016 if you conservatives stay on the track you’re on. You’re only hope is the RINO Chris Christie.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!
January 18th, 2013
10:52 am
Lt Col Razorback
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
We spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined. We don’t need to be in a “Super Weapon of the Month” club. That money can be used for jobs. We have more than enough weapons to defend ourselves. You sound scared Razorback, Boogie man behind you?
Lt Col Razorback
January 18th, 2013
10:52 am
Steve,
I’m going to be thankful that our capitalist economy is strong enough to recover from the best that Obama could do to try to destroy it and implement a Greek-like socialist economic system.
That’s what I’m going to do!
Ol' Bob
January 18th, 2013
10:52 am
If the Republicans want to appear Congressional (is that a verb?) they need to try something they seem to have forgotten how to do. It’s a little thing we like to call “COMPROMISE”. Ronald Reagan, the supposed patron saint of today’s Republicans, was a past master at it. He’d declare his immovable position, compromise to get as much as he could of what he wanted, declare victory, and move on. Things got done. Reagan had sky-high approval ratings. The Dems fumed. Nowadays, the House leadership declares their immovable position – and then, they’re done! “Our way or the highway!” is their mantra, and y’know something? In politics as in the rest of what’s known as “real life”, you seldom get 100% of what you want. If there’s more than you involved, and you hold out for “every thing”, what you often get is “no -thing”. Which leads us back to the GOP – the Party of No – who set out four years ago on this strategy of opposing Obama on everything large and small – of playing brinksmanship games over EVERYTHING – and who have failed miserably. It’s time to vote this crop of Republicans OUT and get some people in Washington who are functional instead of delusional. If that means moderate Republicans, fine. If it means Democrats, or Greens, or Independents, fine. But the idealogical, fanatical, philosophical conservative fringies need to be sent home from Foggy Bottom and back to The Real World, wherever that might be.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 18th, 2013
10:53 am
“There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.”
- Ronald Reagan
Lt Col Razorback
January 18th, 2013
10:54 am
Corbin,
No one is behind me and I’m certainly not scared of your sorry ass!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
10:54 am
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2013
10:49 am
If spending continues to grow at a pace suggested by many and contemplating the baby boomers (used to have 16 employed to support 1 retiree…it will be 2:1 in no time)..we will not see a corresponding growth in revenue regardless.
Our economy, solely due to global competition, will never return to the manufacturing base many think. We could become isolationists but all of us will be hurt….
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
10:55 am
Keep in mind most of Jay and Obama’s cheerleaders pay no federal taxes in the first place.
That’s because we is pragmatic conservatives as opposed to you idealogues.
nelson
January 18th, 2013
10:55 am
Government is clearly out of the sphere of influence of the populace. Government makes all the decisions from what children eat in schools, to gun ownership.
The debt ceiling is not for us to reason why it should be raised rather than cut spending. What is the truth, expenses cannot be cut, the only way is to raise the debt ceiling. The tipping point will be when all the revenue goes to service the debt.
The real issue is when government becomes sooooo massive and unwielding that it cannot be managed.
joshua
January 18th, 2013
10:55 am
Man i feel like i am living in 2008 with how many on here keep using the blame Bush routine. Dam i wonder if next year they will still be using that excuse when things continue to go down hill for most of us.
Keyser Soze
January 18th, 2013
10:56 am
60%
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/14/debt-deficit-obama-congress/1830363/
SouthernGent
January 18th, 2013
10:56 am
After reading the liberals comments, I am thinking there must be some cheap flights to Colorado and Jay and his buddies have been out there ever since they legalized pot and are posting on a high.
The debt ceiling does not need to be raised unless spending is lowered. Federal Government revenues have been pretty steady, but spending has been through the roof.
The demoratically controlled Congress that Obama came in with, did not pass a budget. The demoratically controlled Senate has not passed a budget since the demorats lost the house. Obama’s budget was so outlandish, even the loyal demorats could not in good conscious vote for it.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
10:56 am
Hind sight is 20-20 regardless of the profession.
except for climatology
RGB
January 18th, 2013
10:56 am
“The spending will continue until the deficit improves.”
Robert Roseborough
January 18th, 2013
10:56 am
Why does no one mention the cost of W’s wars as a factor in our present fiscal mess? I would like to see the Defence Dept. renamed the War Dept.
Eisenhower said “Be wary of the military – industrial complex.”
Never4getW
January 18th, 2013
10:57 am
The grown-ups have to take over now and sort-out the mess that W and his buddies have left us. It’s just not possible to stop such a large train instantly, we adults know the process will take as much time or longer to fix than it took to get here. Thankfully, the informed public knows that spending on wars is Fraud, waste and abuse and will vote with that in mind for the foreseeable future. The GOP was a joke and will be phased-out. White conservatives are now in the minority expect for Faux News viewers. Democracy is working well!
yuzeyurbrane
January 18th, 2013
10:57 am
webuilt–you ask when? Have you heard of the normal legislative process? Like committee hearings, expert testimony, proposed legislation, majority vote on bills? You don’t get good laws from the point of a gun which is figuratively what House Republicans have been trying to do. The only time they are for the legislative process is when gun control legislation is being proposed. Now, you cannot logically have it both ways. By the way, Social Security was exempted from the sequester because it has not contributed one penny to the deficit. Now, some small modifications to it are surely required to make it solvent for another 75 years but why shouldn’t this be considered in the normal legislative process? Also, stop yelling “Greece”. It is a cheap scare tactic. There are so many differences between our situation and Greece that it is a ridiculous comparison. I suggest you open up your eyes and read some non-Fox opinions on this such as excellent analyses by Krugman.
lbjack
January 18th, 2013
10:57 am
Eagerly swallowing GOP lies, the right-wingers still don’t get it. The debt ceiling isn’t about future spending but about spending ALREADY appropriated by the Congress, including the GOP House! This is yet another radical GOP tactic to damage the nation in order to stick it to the president. If they really want to cut spending, then they do it in the budgetary process, not holding hostage the full faith and credit of the United States. There is only one way to describe Tea Party politicians: traitorous.
Steve
January 18th, 2013
10:57 am
@Razorback – how are we any more “socialist” than we’ve been under any other President? Healthcare? You and I are already paying for free socialist emergency room visits for the poor at exorbitant rates, all of this instated under Republican leadership of the past. Our military is a grand socialized program and a huge chunk of the budget. We PAY into medicare and social security and Americans LOVE both programs (check the polls). What has Obama done that has made us “socialist”?? Our “socialist” neighbor, Canada, has a happier populace and a thriving economy. but hey, “socialism” is some kind of dirty word for you because….???
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
10:57 am
Moderate Line
January 18th, 2013
10:51 am
Have no reason to predict but I think it is safe to say that Krugman stopped being an economist a long time ago. He is now simply a pundit and completely biased by his political allegiance…Economists are rarely correct in the long term and the CBO’s track record is worse..
Morality?
January 18th, 2013
10:58 am
So 66% think the Dem Party SUX and are PARTY LOYALISTS first and USA loyalists LAST. So why did they vote OBAMA? Guess they were just STUPID.
td
January 18th, 2013
10:58 am
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer…and Ban the Gun Thug!
January 18th, 2013
10:52 am
January 18th, 2013
10:34 am
We spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined. We don’t need to be in a “Super Weapon of the Month” club. That money can be used for jobs.
Who in the heck builds these weapons? Are these people not working JOBS? What jobs do you think these people should have?
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2013
10:58 am
AWJ: “They are drawing a line in the sand because BHO has not kept his word (imagine that) from previous talks”
Showing that you obviously are not paying attention to what is going on. If the massive cuts that Obama has offered and followed through with over the various stages of this debt bickering do not constitute keeping his word, what does?
Jeff Wetherbee: “Keep in mind most of Jay and Obama’s cheerleaders pay no federal taxes in the first place. They are as dependent on the government for their survival as a prostitute is on her “manager”
Showing that you are utterly ignorant, probably just a FOX News propaganda consumer.
If you’re worried about lo income moochers, are you not equally outraged by the moochers in the financial sector benefiting from no-interest government funds for their speculation, or is that straining your grey matter too much to contemplate?
CJ
January 18th, 2013
10:59 am
Krauthammer: “ [Republicans] get the blame for rattled markets and economic uncertainty.”
I’m late to this discussion, so forgive me if this observation has already been made…
After reviewing Krauthammer’s comments, his clear position is as follows: If President Obama will be blamed, then crash the economy. However, if Republicans will be blamed, then do not crash the economy.
THIS is your modern Republican Party.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
10:59 am
Lt Col Razorback
January 18th, 2013
10:52 am
Steve,
I’m going to be thankful that our capitalist economy is strong enough to recover from the best that Obama could do to try to destroy it and implement a Greek-like socialist economic system.
++++++++++++++++++++
Oh the stupid……. IT BURNS………
Please tell me brainiac, when the greek economy has ever been more than than that of a third world country tin the last 2500 years?
You poor sad foxbots and silly little foxbot nonsense phrases.
Loves Me Some Obama Kool-Aid
January 18th, 2013
11:00 am
Perfect example of why it is so hard to dialogue with Liberals: For 4 years, Obama and the Liberals have blamed the economy on Bush. When Conservatives point out (rightly) that Obama has no plan for solving the fiscal crisis, Liberals defect to ‘place the blame where in belongs…on Congress’ meme. You haven’t placed the blame there for the last 4 years, why start now? Disingenous Kool-Aid Drinkers the lot of you.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:01 am
Morality?
January 18th, 2013
10:58 am
Cause the options sucked on GOP side more than DEM side…the DEMS now and historically play to recipients of government programs…also, BO convinced the public that BUSH was the benchmark he should be measured against. Don’t forget the fear mongering which was brilliant suggesting that any cuts to entitlements were characterized as the end of the country as we know it…
RGB
January 18th, 2013
11:02 am
When the day come when the federal government either wildly inflates the money supply (rendering everything you have worthless), or virtually eliminates all federal programs (Medicare, SS, others), or both, liberals need to produce sincere smiles and simply say: “Fantastic! I’ve really been looking forward to this day for a long time. After all, I caused it. Celebration time!!”
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:02 am
Who in the heck builds these weapons? Are these people not working JOBS? What jobs do you think these people should have?
The chinese, the British, the Mexicans, the Canadians. THAT’S who build them silly. Not Americans, there’s no profit in Americans working…….. at least not while Obama is in office……..
TBone
January 18th, 2013
11:03 am
Yeah let’s keep fooling ourselves that there is absolutely no consequence to unlimited spending by the gubmint. We already borrow 40 cents for every dollar spent and the interest will only increase. Besides Obasma’s job council is bound to meet at some point and remedy this pathetic economy. I hear the Burger King and Ronald McDonald are the co-chairs of the august body.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:03 am
RGB
January 18th, 2013
11:02 am
When the day come when the federal government either wildly inflates the money supply (rendering everything you have worthless), or virtually eliminates all federal programs (Medicare, SS, others), or both, liberals need to produce sincere smiles and simply say: “Fantastic! I’ve really been looking forward to this day for a long time. After all, I caused it. Celebration time!!”
+++++++++++++++++++++
That type of talk radio/foxbot ignorance is why you keep losing elections. When called on the stupid double down and show us TWICE the stupid. Yeah, that will work……..
td
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
lbjack
January 18th, 2013
10:57 am
“The debt ceiling isn’t about future spending but about spending ALREADY appropriated by the Congress”
Not an accurate statement. If the Congress went in today and cut the budget by 25% for next years spending then it would not need to raise the debt limit. When you have a car payment for $400 per month for the next 5 years and then that is projected in your budget but if you sell that car before the 5 years are up then you so not need that $400 per month any longer.
Josh
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
Everyone is quick to point out what Obama is trying to do and how it will turn out bad. Given he hasn’t exactly had a easy road ahead of him. Rather then talking about what he isn’t doing lets focus on the cause of our over spending, and I personally believe it’s past time for the government to be audited anyhow.
If we cannot continue to fund our debt what happen’s? The government shuts down, which means no more bikkering in Washington, I am sure the state’s will pick up the slack and keep the wal-marts and roads working just fine without the help of the government.
Afraid the Chinese will step in and start siezing assets which will not happen, their currency is backed by the US dollar. So they are bound to our prosperity in a catch 22.
The reality is we are paying back 13 private families that financed the fed reserve long ago and still paying interest on what our grandfathers achieved with that money. The founders of the fed are dead and only their spoiled children remain to collect. I am sure they will survive if we don’t pay up.
If we just changed our foreign policy and stopped trying to police the whole world we could easily cloth, educate, and feed our less fortunate. It is time for self sufficency and a time to come together and help one another as we cross over this transition using rational thought. Instead of hallow words that gain no ground for the American People and our struggle. Yet we pay the price, and so will our children’s, children, children…..
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
Please tell me brainiac, when the greek economy has ever been more than than that of a third world country tin the last 2500 years?
FWIW it’s the 15th biggest economy of the 27 member nation EU
Bird Lives
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
See if you can help me- I read in the paper that we had an election. Before the election I remember seeing some guys in suits talking trash about Obama and also each other.I remember that Republicans tried to stop some folks from voting. And, somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember that this guy Obama won. And if memory serves me right, he won by a pretty good margin. And thanks to gerrymandering (Wasn’t he the shortstop for the Brooklyn Dodgers?) the Repulsicans won the House. And I hear that they love Paul Ryan, a great man. (If you don’t believe me ask him.) He would be a great member of the SS. So, anyway, if the guy named Obama won, despite Hannity, Rush, O’Really and that great mind Krauthammer (If you don’t believe me ask him) and the Democrats managed to beat the BRILLIANCE of some guys who talked about Rape and how they were in favor of it, than what is the end result?.
That guy Mitch McConnell can has his wish now- Obama is a now a one term President. HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!!! Remember the old saying, “The spoils go to the victors”.
But for all you Haters on the Right GFY!! And have a nice day
Loves Me Some Obama Kool-Aid
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
Doesn’t matter if the economy improves and revenues increase as long as we keep spending like we have the last 12 years. Where is the Liberal solution to our fiscal challenges?
Seriously Folks
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
I still cannot believe people think President Obama is a “run-away” spender. Look, Corporations are making record profits, yet some on here call the President a “Socialist Kenyan” (and for the record, Kenya’s government was modeled after our when they achieved independence…but I am sure THAT won’t change anyone’s mind). See this link to that “liberal rag (IRONY ALERT)” Forbes magazine.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/
Coming up with cute labels for those who disagree is a great way to engage in “anonymous” dialogue on this message board. However, I pose this again…how do you see us as a country “rebounding” if you are a “cut our way out of this” versus a “grow our way out of this.”
Fred G Sanford
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
What has happened is Fox and Koch Bros etc have spun up the rubes. Of course it happens whenever there’s a D in the WH. Recall the deficit ticker on the evening news in the late 70s? It has proven to be ffective over the years. They wake up the rubes, tell them running the country is like their paltry bank account (cant spend what you dont have yeehaw) and then the rubes run with it. The national economy is nothing like your own. Your community college should have had 2 intro economics classes, microeconomics and macroeconomics. You = micro, Govt = macro. Different animals. So what has been happenening under Obama is he lets the Republicans play their cards, with weak handa. Folks are wiser now and thats why the like the new tougher stances by Obama against the just say no crowd.
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:04 am
Morality?
January 18th, 2013
10:58 am
So 66% think the Dem Party SUX and are PARTY LOYALISTS first and USA loyalists LAST. So why did they vote OBAMA? Guess they were just STUPID.
+++++++++++++++++
Or maybe they knew that Romney sucked even more………….
JL
January 18th, 2013
11:05 am
TaxPayer
prag·mat·ic (prg-mtk)
adj.
1. Dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical.
I am a Republican, a small business owner responsible for creating 150 jobs at my business in the aerospace community, and certailny pay my “fair” share of the taxes. I deal with facts everyday. The facts are that the policies of this administration are hurting my business and the people that work there. Obamacare is increasing costs dramatically, 15% increase in health care this year which, by the way, the company absorbed the entire increase to help the employees. We will not be able to do that next year when the costs are expected to rise another 15%. That will come right out of the employees checks. The recent tax increases have decreased the money we have left over after paying all our costs to invest in additional equipment that would create additional jobs and job security. Obama making brash statements about business jets destroyed that jet market and forced me to cut production and reduce jobs which increased unemployment. The facts are the policies of this administration are destroying the incentives to ever take a chance and start a business. When the small businesses are all gone where do you think the taxes are going to come from. You are right, I deal with the facts every day and every day I find I am losing more and more. I am not alone. All small business owners are losing everyday. Pretty soon there will be alot fewer small businesses to create jobs. I guess that will be OK because Obama has promised everyone that the government will support them. When the money is gone it is gone and as I said above, that financial collapse will be the end of our democracy. I wish everyone would be a lot more pragmatic and deal with those facts.
CharlesBennett
January 18th, 2013
11:05 am
I am absolutely amazed at the lack of concern for our nation demonstrated by liberal/BO lovers. It’s as if the economic devastation that followed massive debt in so many countries in the EU didn’t occur. Apparently, the mindset of “OUR government (as long as it’s run by liberals) simply is incapable of destroying our economy with debt”. It’s always “we’ll be fine”, and “the debt is no big deal”… That is EXACTLY what the citizens of Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc., thought. They put too much faith in the ability of their elected politicians and look at where those countries are now. Credit ratings have tanked. 25%+ unemployment. No one will lend them money unless they provide a fiscally sane path.
It won’t be long before liberals are screaming about not receiving all the “free” (paid for by other people) stuff that they have voted for… because the money WILL run out.
Liberals keep saying, “you lost, deal with it”. Well libby’s, YOU are in for one hell of a surprise when the massive debt YOUR liberal politicians have created swallows all the tax revenue. THEN what? The gov will be paying off the debt and all those “freebies” will HAVE to be gutted. Starting with SS, Medicare, Welfare, Unemployment, etc…
It’s ironic, really. Liberals and their spending addiction are sending this country right down the path to the ultimate conservative fiscal policy known as Austerity. The liberal’s desire to spend, borrow, spend, borrow will eventually produce enormous cut backs, just to keep our gov out of bankruptcy.
The children of today will be looking squarely at YOU liberals when that debt begins to take its toll. They will be asking “Why in heck didn’t you do something about it BEFORE it got so large?” And what will you libs say to those kids? Or do you even give a hoot about kids anyway?
Ed
January 18th, 2013
11:06 am
yuzeyurbrane – I know you think that one man and one vote is the way we should elect our officials, but if you truly love America then rethink this action as it will destroy America! If you do away with the Electoral college then every single American who lives in a small state will become obsolete. Every election will be run by what the big states say and do, our voting system was designed so that all our votes count in a bigger way big state compared to little states! Look at the election of Obama the majority of states voted against him yet he won the states that counted. Also voter tampering is much more unlikely to happen in large amounts in this current system yet if you open it up then fraud will be rampant. Look what happen when we gave the popular vote to senators, states have lost their representation in congress which has caused more trouble in passing laws and has made congress much weaker they in fact are much weaker than they were. You say great I can live with the laws of New York or California but things change just 50 years ago Texas was a huge democratic state and California was republican. Just because you like how a state is run today doesn’t mean it will last and if you live in a small state your at the mercy of their voters. Just think about it!
DannyX
January 18th, 2013
11:06 am
“Man i feel like i am living in 2008 with how many on here keep using the blame Bush routine.”
joshua, you need to wake up from that nightmare. We’re not losing 800,000 jobs per month anymore, we are now creating jobs. No more -10% GDP, last year we again saw positive growth. The real estate market is recovering nicely now, home building was way up in December, a far cry from the collapse. Wall St has recovered, and businesses are reporting record profits.
Wake up!
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2013
11:07 am
Poor cons apparently are not partaking of the recovery. That’s too bad. Really. This market has been very good to me.
Loves Me Some Obama Kool-Aid
January 18th, 2013
11:07 am
Bird….perfect example of Liberal class…there at the end of your post. Pathetic that you represent so many millions who were fooled into voting for Obama.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 18th, 2013
11:07 am
Erwin’s cat
January 18th, 2013
10:56 am
Funny. More funny how a 20 year old “science” is predicting outcomes 50-100 years out. Nobody really knows what will happen but it is good we have skeptics that will eventually improve the validity of the progress to date….
Similarly, nobody really knows what is happening on the future of our economic mess….. we can guess all we want but the trends in spending, ability to tax our way out, and the fact that we will never return to the manufacturing base many think is temporarily absent, suggest no matter what either party suggests, none of same will change anything..
Fred ™
January 18th, 2013
11:09 am
TBone
January 18th, 2013
11:03 am
Yeah let’s keep fooling ourselves that there is absolutely no consequence to unlimited spending by the gubmint. We already borrow 40 cents for every dollar spent and the interest will only increase. Besides Obasma’s job council is bound to meet at some point and remedy this pathetic economy. I hear the Burger King and Ronald McDonald are the co-chairs of the august body.
++++++++++++++++++++
At least they are hiring. All your big daddy’s are sending jobs over seas.