Second Amendment is not license for treason, armed revolt
According to some, the primary purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure that citizens have enough firepower to overthrow the federal government, should it become necessary to do so. If the government ever loses its fear of such a revolt, the theory goes, our liberty ends and tyranny begins.
Let me be blunt: That is mythological claptrap. But like a lot of mythological claptrap, it can push weak-minded people — the Timothy McVeighs of the world — to do stupid and dangerous things.
It is certainly true that when the Second Amendment was drafted back in the 18th century, it was plausible to believe that an armed citizenry could be a check on overweening government power. Back then, there wasn’t much difference in the weapons available to private citizens and the weapons available to the military. It could have been, and sometimes was, a more or less even fight.
Today, that is no longer the case, and it hasn’t been the case for a century or longer. Around the world, governments have access to a range of weaponry that private citizens have no hope of matching or withstanding. There is simply no comparison between the brute, deadly force that a government can wield and that wielded by private citizens, individually or collectively. Technology has rendered that aspect of the Second Amendment a dead letter.
If you want to rejuvate that aspect of the Second Amendment, you have to be willing to grant private citizens access to fully automatic weapons, Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, grenade launchers, etc. And it’s not going to happen.
That’s not just my opinion. It is also the opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court, as expressed by one of its most conservative members, Justice Antonin Scalia, in the most important Second Amendment opinion the court ever issued.
In District of Columbia v. Heller, issued in 2008, Scalia and the court made it clear for the first time that the Second Amendment “protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.” But in that same opinion, Scalia brushed aside claims that the Second Amendment guarantees citizens the means to armed revolution. He concluded that technology has rendered that part of the amendment an archaic artifact, because “a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large” and that “no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks.”
For that reason, Scalia made it clear that the Second Amendment “does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes,” and that the government is fully within its rights to ban military-style weaponry.
In Iraq, for example, gun ownership is extremely widespread, with many if not most households owning fully automatic weapons that would be banned in this country. Yet Saddam Hussein had little trouble imposing and maintaining a brutal dictatorship in that country for decades. He did not confiscate guns, because he understood that such guns posed no real threat to his tyranny.
And as Joshua Keating notes at ForeignPolicy.com, look at Tunisia and Egypt, where private gun ownership is very low but citizens have nonetheless managed to overthrow brutal military dictatorships. If government now has a massive advantage in terms of brute force, innovations such as Twitter, Facebook, cellphones and satellite TV have more than offset it in the cause of freedom.
Guns don’t overthrow tyranny or guarantee liberty. People do.
– Jay Bookman
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1,326 comments Add your comment
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:34 am
taxpayer – when do liberals begin advocating for a balanced budget? or is that beyond their irresponsiblity?
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
keithb
January 17th, 2013
10:33 am
Poor Fred,
I struck a chord, you must be a mooocher.
++++++++++++++++++
I guess that means you can’t provide proof of the president ordering the military to kill Americans. I thought not.
larry
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
“Will Rush be the Impotent Army’s Supreme Commander when the cons revolt?”
They are in trouble if they are. Neil Peart, Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson dont have a violent bone in their bodies.
But i’m sure they will make it a hell of a show.
TaxPayer
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
Ah ……………… because maybe only half the military might join the people and therefore “the people” would be enough to make the difference ?
Ah……….. but maybe on one quarter will or maybe three quarters will or will not! Geeeeez!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
RW Extreme, so you are saying that the 2d amendment requires a “declaration” before remedies can be undertaken? And how many must support? Let’s recall that generally only 1/3 of the colonists supported revolution.
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
We have them here in Georgia. For ex: Glock in Smyrna.
And how is our economy fairing ?
if we didnt have to support all those welfare mommas and daddys in atlanta it would be great.
Recon 0311 2533
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
It’s not a stupid supposition. It is backed by current polling data.
There is no accurate poll on how many homes have firearms. There is accuracy in determining how many guns and ammunition that’s sold through licensed dealers. Private owner transfers and gun show trades can’t at least currently be accurately tracked. We have millions of guns and rounds of ammunition in various calibers in this country making it virtually impossible to enforce national gun control laws.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:36 am
Jay’s last sentence is all you need to know about the pollyanna, deluded utopia that most boob liberals exist in.
southpaw
January 17th, 2013
10:36 am
Fred @10:28
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Aulaqi#Death
Uh Huh....Nonsensical Idea
January 17th, 2013
10:37 am
@williebkind
January 17th, 2013
10:29 am
“Will Rush be the Impotent Army’s Supreme Commander when the cons revolt?”
You liberals sure are funny!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you’re going to be CRAZY LIKE RUSH, you have to get paid for it or
else you’re going to be locked up.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:37 am
liberals LIKE benign tyranny. so, pretending they would stand up to tyranny is a big joke.
lovelyliz
January 17th, 2013
10:38 am
“Second Amendment is not license for treason, armed revolt” No, but it’s a good tag l;ine when your job is to sell more guns and that’s really the NRA’s job as lobbyist for gun manufacturers
TaxPayer
January 17th, 2013
10:38 am
Uh Oh! A con got distracted from the “they’ll have to pry my guns from my cold dead fingers” mantra. So. How much will the deficit be reduced per year by the Republican deficit reduction plan. How much will the debt be reduced per year. How much will the debt ceiling be reduced per year.
retired early
January 17th, 2013
10:39 am
Jay
This may be hard to believe, but the anti government, Obama, and all Democrats bunch don’t bother to blog. Based on personal conversations with some of these people, their hate and distain for the government is only surpassed by their distrust of same.
These are poorly educated white men who’s total source of information comes from Rush Limbaugh and other right wing talk shows. There is a predictable pattern to their answers to any question. Those answers being supported by misinformation and pure racism and intolerance.
At the center of their arguments is the belief that there is a concerted effort by the Federal government to “take over this country and all the freedoms that we enjoy”…this all starts, they say, with the “right to bear arms”. This has been drilled into them to the point where it is “imprinted” into the very core of who they are.
I fault those right wing talk show host, who for the sake of the almighty dollar, have fanned the flames of hatred and mistrust, accelerating the great divide that now exist in this country.
Yes, these people are far more dangerous than I would have believed and with Obama’s latest gun control efforts only confirming these people’s wildest fears, I truly fear that he may now be a target. Surely, the Secret Service is aware of this increased danger and have beefed up security…I sure hope so. This country needs great men like Obama, who are willing to make a stand against the special interest who try to run this country…Please keep him safe.
brad
January 17th, 2013
10:39 am
oh wait….armed citizens overthrowing a more powerful and better armed government? Do you read the news? Egypt, Libya, Afganhastan, Every country in Africa. Your argument is stupid and doesn’t support the facts. A well armed citizen is a more effective fighter than a military soldier when fighting on home turf. The soldiers eventually quit trying to kill their fellow citizens and turn on the GOVERNMENT.
Granny Godzilla
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
Boob Liberals?
Penis Conservatives?
Butt Libertarians?
Oh the humanty!
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
so you really think obama would order the military to kill Americans? Well he HAS done that before.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When? I can’t wait to hear this whopper…….
Where have you been? You didnt know that predator drones have been ordered to kill American citizens? You really should get better informed.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
When? I can’t wait to hear this whopper…….
Fred
Maybe this?
http://www.thechicagodope.com/2010/11/11/cia-admits-drone-strike-killed-six-in-wisconsin-wedding-party/
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
liberals, such as the moron uh huh advocate locking up folks who don’t suffer their group think. selah. the left is very close to fascism. look at the laws of NY, and Chicago. and, their crime has disappeared, as well as gun deaths, no?
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:35 am
We have them here in Georgia. For ex: Glock in Smyrna.
And how is our economy fairing ?
if we didnt have to support all those welfare mommas and daddys in atlanta it would be great.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Name some of those welfare momma’s and daddy’s. You are so quick to toss around your silly lies, how about bringing us some names there lil keith. Oh and pray tell, what is YOUR job that has you post so prolificly at this time in the morning? Either you are retired, don’t have a job, or are ripping off your employer by being here instead of doing work. Talk about a moocher………..
JamVet
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
What country are you counting on to come to your aid once you begin your revolt?
The Republicans?
They could probably get the Iranians to help them out.
LOTS of fellow Uncle Sam haters over there…
Christian Conservative
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
Paul:
No Jay, I mean Paul… I think you’re lost….
barking frog
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
David Koresh, Tim McVeigh, etc. proved you can attack the
government at any time but you will suffer the consequences.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
Well now Senior Arabic Digits, Johnny Reb has stated that he honestly believes Obama is committing tyranny. Assuming his believe is honest and heart felt, what are his constitutional remedies under the 2d Amendment? What acts may he take?
TaxPayer
January 17th, 2013
10:41 am
There are no accurate polls. Except for those skewed polls that the Republicans rely on.
larry
January 17th, 2013
10:41 am
if we didnt have to support all those welfare mommas and daddys in atlanta it would be great.
So , they all live in Atlanta huh?, they dont live in the rural areas where the economy and unemployment are higher than Atlanta?
Okay, i will call you on your stereotype. Proof please.
And if i can just get rid of this sheriff’s deputy whos saying i dont have a right to an A1M1 tank under the 2nd amendment, we’ll go for a ride .
Paul
January 17th, 2013
10:41 am
von
“- “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” This indicates that regardless of the reason given for why they feel it needed, that all citizens can have any weapons they choose and that no government shall get in the way or interfere with that…I mean I am assuming you all know what the word INFRINGE means. ”
I don’t know any other way to say this and get across the full sense of it.
When you come on a blog and post without even reading the lead piece, which concerns US law and the reasoning the Court used to decide it, you look really, really, really stupidly ignorant.
AnywhereInTX
January 17th, 2013
10:41 am
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
The bill of rights is not to be interpreted in my opinion.
keithb
January 17th, 2013
10:41 am
I have enjoyed all this.
We had better.
Executive powers will circumvent the first amendment, and that will be the topic of discussion by this time next year.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
loveliz: how do you square the increase in gun sales since obama announced his gun control intentions? or does reality bother liberals? NRA is not owned by gun manufacturers. should the Sierra Club be banned?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
the left is very close to fascism.
There’s your sign.
JamVet
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
Are you cons worried that BHO is gonna drone you to the promised land?
Hysterical…
weetamoe
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
Ach himmel–here we go again. Obama did not teach constitutional law and he was not a professor- He had no tenure. He merely worked as an adjunct — a part time lecturer of a couple of survey courses. As his former dean has attested he was not even considered an intellectual, but * merely someone who had learned to imitate the actions of an intellectual.* On the other hand, there is much TEA party admiration for Yale Law Professor Stephen Carter, a truly brilliant young African-American intellectual.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
fred – you are a boob.
Paul
January 17th, 2013
10:43 am
Christian Conservative
And if you’re not Roman Catholic (let alone Eastern Orthodox) you’re just another apostate heretic -
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:43 am
Fred doesnt seem to know history very well. But how could he, he spends all day listening to the left rewriting it.
Garden Diva
January 17th, 2013
10:43 am
@Jerome Horwitz and others who state that “We in the US have an option not available to most of the world. It’s called a VOTE. That’s your protection against tyranny.”
Might I suggest that, while voting is a wonderful thing and something that I do as frequently as allowed, it is possible that voting and democracy can be circumvented if some of the parties involved have ulterior motives and do not plan on playing by the established rules. If a society behaves in a particularly naïve fashion, who’s to say that this society couldn’t be deceived by a politician who presents him/her self as one who respects the law of the land but consolidates power in order to take over. I believe that is called a coup. And, if I remember correctly, coups have taken place on a regular basis, even in the current time.
larry
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
Boob Liberals?
Penis Conservatives?
Butt Libertarians?
Oh the humanty!
LOL!
Christian Conservative
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
I’m beginning to beleive that all these supposed posters are really Jay: Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes, Jamvet, Paul, Granny Godzilla, TaxPayer
Notice how they don’t ever post together or even acknowledge each other… Even so their new name is the Bookman Buffoons… Its certainly fitting….. And where is Jay? I guess having all this supposed followers is a way to show his bosses he has a following. Even if it is so few…..
JamVet
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
…how do you square the increase in gun sales since obama announced his gun control intentions?
The exact same explanation as to why the KKK’s membership jumped after his election in November 2008…
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
eith
January 17th, 2013
10:40 am
so you really think obama would order the military to kill Americans? Well he HAS done that before.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When? I can’t wait to hear this whopper…….
Where have you been? You didnt know that predator drones have been ordered to kill American citizens? You really should get better informed.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Holy crap. And Jay pulled my first post because I suggested this guy is mentally unstable? Here we have proof that he’s completely bat crap CRAZY.
Thanks for the info. under the broad reaching and unintended interpretation of the American’s with Disabilities Act, I will no longer address you. In further pointing out your insanity I will probably be considered “harrassing” someone with a know disability. Have a great day.
Oh and if you have a tear in your beanie let me be of assistance:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html
Uh Huh....Nonsensical Idea
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
@Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:36 am
Jay’s last sentence is all you need to know about the pollyanna, deluded utopia that most boob liberals exist in.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Boob Liberals?
I would imagine that if you could understand MORSE CODE,
a TAP DANCER would drive you BOOB CONS CRAZY.
Tap tap tap tap…………
indigo
January 17th, 2013
10:45 am
rightwingextreme
Is this you?
http://warincontext.org/2011/01/09/the-gun-preeminent-symbol-of-the-impotence-of-the-american-citizen/
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:45 am
David Koresh did not attack the govt. the govt attacked him. Now will you justify the deaths of all those children??
JamVet
January 17th, 2013
10:45 am
cc…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljQMpgVY5mg
Paul
January 17th, 2013
10:46 am
AnywhereinTX
“The bill of rights is not to be interpreted in my opinion.”
Don’t know much about the constitution, do you?
Yup, we definitely need new high school textbooks in Texas -
TaxPayer
January 17th, 2013
10:46 am
Hey cons! Don’t forget to ask Deal during his State of the Confederacy speech when he’s going to start creating those jobs here in Georgia. I see the unemployment rate is up again. To get Deal’s attention, get one of your average Joes to yell out something like YOU LIE.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:46 am
kamchak – look at the laws passed in liberally controlled placed. liberals think they are superior to the masses of peasants, so they need to pass laws to improve their lives – so they don’t have to look at them and feel sympathy. but, the failure of LBJ’s great society adequately demonstrates that poverty can not be conquered, and liberals are simply throwing good money after bad. look at the Atlanta public housing – those poor folks destroyed those brick building in less than 50 years. pathetic ingrates.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
10:47 am
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
fred – you are a boob.
+++++++++++++++++++
And we have another person from the Rush school of charm and debate.
Note the use of grammar and context to drive home the point.
Look at the keenly polished skill of laying out a good argument.
See how he cites sources for his well thought out argument.
Notice how he states on topic and doesn’t result to name calling………
larry
January 17th, 2013
10:47 am
Paul:
No Jay, I mean Paul… I think you’re lost….
George? …………….. John…………… Oh bloody, where’s Ringo?
Ringo?!! On the ceiling again i see. Get down from there right now.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
10:47 am
I’m beginning to beleive that all these supposed posters are really Jay: Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes, Jamvet, Paul, Granny Godzilla, TaxPayer
First I was accused of being Cynthia Tucker and now I’m supposed to be Jay.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
weetamoe
January 17th, 2013
10:47 am
The drone jockeys commanded by Obama have already droned a few kids to the *promised land,* but they were not his kids and I don’t know if any of them were *products of rape.* Some people being more equal than others and all.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:48 am
uh huh is one of those snarky butt holes that frequently got beat up in school. diarrhia of the mouth without much substance behind it. but, it makes him feel good. bleeding heart and all.
TaxPayer
January 17th, 2013
10:48 am
I’m Spartacus.
NO, I’m Spartacus.
NO! I’m Spartacus….
Paul
January 17th, 2013
10:48 am
“Even so their new name is the Bookman Buffoons…”
Mighty Christian of you, Conservative -
JamVet
January 17th, 2013
10:48 am
David Koresh did not attack the govt.
True, the scumbag just thought he was above the government.
And got his martyr wishes to come true by getting all of those innocent people killed…
BTW, IMUO, Koresh fans are some of the most depraved Republicans of them all, keith…
BADA BING (imagine an umlaut above the i, I'm trying to class this place up a little)
January 17th, 2013
10:48 am
Treason? If politicians don’t follow the Constituion, isn’t that Treason?
Recon 0311 2533
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
keep
Common sense alone should be sufficient enough to tell you that your poll statistics mostly as it appears from left wing sources has got to be nonsense. I’ll keep it simple for you by asking how in a free and open society a polling organization could accurately gather that kind of data on firearm ownership?
SouthernGent
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
Another dumb column by the bonehead of liberal policies at AJC. You obviously flunked out of your civics course or studied the Russian Constitution instead of the US Constitution. It is the height of hypocrisy for a liberal supporter of Obama to talk about treason. The 2nd amendment is very clear and does not need dunderheads such as you Jay to try to torture and twist it.
indigo
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
retired early – 10:39
Most of them are also fundamentalist Christians who, on a regular basis, here sermons about how evil and dangerous liberals are and about how good “Christian soldiers” protect their homes by being heavily armed against a godless, heathen liberal Govt. from Hell.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
fred – your asinine idealism threshold in this disposable commentary simply indicates just how booby thou art. I guess that arrogance feeds your inferiority complex. tell me what happened to the atlanta public housing projects.
Granny Godzilla
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
weetamoe
January 17th, 2013
10:42 am
Ach himmel–here we go again. Obama did not teach constitutional law and he was not a professor- He had no tenure. He merely worked as an adjunct — a part time lecturer of a couple of survey courses. As his former dean has attested he was not even considered an intellectual, but * merely someone who had learned to imitate the actions of an intellectual.* On the other hand, there is much TEA party admiration for Yale Law Professor Stephen Carter, a truly brilliant young African-American intellectual.
.
.
.
.
Funny you should post that piffle….
From Fact Check
UC Law School statement: The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as “Senior Lecturer.” From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School’s Senior Lecturers have high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.
Uh Huh....Nonsensical Idea
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
@Christian Conservative
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
I’m beginning to beleive that all these supposed posters are really Jay: Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes, Jamvet, Paul, Granny Godzilla, TaxPayer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A newspaper is a DEVICE for making the IGNORANT more ignorant
and the CRAZY crazier.
Which are you?
IGNORANT?
CRAZY?
Christian HYPOCRITE?
The other half of your brain.
January 17th, 2013
10:50 am
Say, do you think gun sales would go up if a free tinfoil hat were included?
Paul. You will have to get yours from Jamvet.
Butch Cassidy (I)
January 17th, 2013
10:50 am
keith – “David Koresh did not attack the govt. the govt attacked him.”
Exactly, it’s every Americans God given right to rape children under the pretense of being their spiritual leader. Bravo keith, keep up the good fight.
von
January 17th, 2013
10:50 am
@Paul. When you assume I havent read the lead piece, when in fact I have, you look even more stupidly ignorant. When you fail to counter anything I have said with so much as one thing of substance, you look like you get easily distracted by shiny objects and jingling keys.
larry
January 17th, 2013
10:50 am
David Koresh did not attack the govt. the govt attacked him. Now will you justify the deaths of all those children??
And now you are defending a child molester
You must have a new shovel, because you keep on digging.
Granny Godzilla
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
Christian Conservative
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
I’m beginning to beleive that all these supposed posters are really Jay: Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes, Jamvet, Paul, Granny Godzilla, TaxPayer
Notice how they don’t ever post together or even acknowledge each other… Even so their new name is the Bookman Buffoons… Its certainly fitting….. And where is Jay? I guess having all this supposed followers is a way to show his bosses he has a following. Even if it is so few…..
.
.
.
.
Dang You figured it out!
tee hee hee
JeffS
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
So, no way a group of dedicated individuals using small arms can stand up to the military might of our government???
You might want to check with the Vietnamese; they seemed to do a pretty darn good job back in the 60’s.
Paul
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
larry
It do get dark in them rabbit holes -
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
Christian Conservative
January 17th, 2013
10:44 am
I’m beginning to beleive that all these supposed posters are really Jay: Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes, Jamvet, Paul, Granny Godzilla, TaxPayer
Notice how they don’t ever post together or even acknowledge each other… Even so their new name is the Bookman Buffoons… Its certainly fitting….. And where is Jay? I guess having all this supposed followers is a way to show his bosses he has a following. Even if it is so few…..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow, ANOTHER one who suffers from delusions. Considering I have actually MET and partied with several of these people (including Kam) I think this new idea of yours is as false as all the other ones you post.
As to where is Jay? Scroll through the blog. Look for the posts that are highlighted in grey, those are Jays, they say “Jay’ by them. It takes second to find them. Try it and see what you come up with lol.
BTB
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
One of the keystones of a functional constitutional republic is an elightened electorate. Scroll through here, starting with the article’s title, and you will see we are doomed.
53%'er
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
And yet again, this article comes down to an opinion, not fact. You have used your opinion to interpret words of someone else. Bookman, you never provide facts, simply state your opinion on a matter by camouflaging it as someone of note’s words. Your word and articles are biased, and I would expect nothing less of the power hungry Left that wants it 100% their way or everyone else is a racist, un-American, un-tolerant, wealthy 1%’er. All we ask is that you not lie and spread propaganda while using a far superior individual’s words and spinning them to be your own.
indigo
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
SouthernGent
Looks like you’re another brilliant example of Christian Academy schooling.
td
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
Jay
January 17th, 2013
9:23 am
“The .223 is not a man slayer as the false statements from the fear mongering media reports. It is .001 inches bigger than a .22. Really???? A man slayer???? C’mon man, get your facts straight.”
Yes indeed. Let’s get our facts straight. Let’s begin with your absurd comparison between a .22 round and a .223 round, which demonstrates that you are either a willful liar or incompetent around firearms.
A .223 round is fired with three times the muzzle velocity of a .22 long-rifle round. Basic physics known since the time of Isaac Newton tells us that force = mass X velocity, which means the .223 round packs at least three times the punch of a .22.
So again, let’s get the facts right shall we?
Yes Jay let us get our facts straight. The AR-15 and its .223 round is way less lethal then a semi- auto 30.06 and it .30 round but the people that want to ban weapons only talk about the AR-15. The gun control people will also not define the term “assault weapon”. Why is that? Is it because the term is nothing more then a fear word and every time they try to define the term it is not based on anything more then emotion?
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:52 am
Fred, you need to keep yourself informed. We cannot always be here to help you out son.
WASHINGTON — A 16-year-old American boy killed in an Obama administration drone strike “should have [had] a far more responsible father,” Obama campaign senior adviser Robert Gibbs says in a new video released by the group We Are Change.
Abdulrahman al-Awlaki was the son of Anwar al-Awlaki, an al Qaeda propagandist killed by a U.S. drone a year ago. But the child was killed in a separate strike some two weeks after his father was killed. Gibbs wasn’t entirely familiar with the situation, and didn’t know that al-Awlaki’s son was killed two weeks after his father was killed, a person familiar with his thinking at the time he was interviewed told HuffPost. We Are Change bills itself as a non-partisan media organization “working to expose corruption.”
zeke
January 17th, 2013
10:52 am
???? Cuba, Iran, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and Syria give you any reason to rethink this absurd opinion??? Of course they all had outside help and arms support. You do not think that some country would supply weapons to an armed insurgency against a tyrant US government? Hopefully that NEVER happens, but, WE HAVE TO GET THE FEDERAL SOCIALIST UNDER CONTROL TO AVOID IT!!!
David
January 17th, 2013
10:52 am
Oh great, getting lectured on tyranny from the “dissent is the highest form of patriotism” crowd. Given that treason is the highest form of dissent, then why aren’t you applauding the “courage” of those who choose to be treasonous?
davidgmills
January 17th, 2013
10:52 am
I am as progressive as they come. I have been a lawyer for 35 years. I have never owned a gun nor did my parents. But there are huge problems with Jay’s analysis.
If you don’t think the 2nd amendment applies to today’s world, the remedy is to repeal it, not to judicially water it down to the point where it has lost its original intent. But repeal is not the answer.
For me, and most lawyers like me, the 2nd amendment is the anti-tyranny amendment. It is not about guaranteeing the right to hunt or having a hunting weapon or about self defense and having a gun that is ideal for protecting one’s self. It guarantees a private right for a common purpose — because that private right is necessary to achieve its common purpose.
Jay is right to argue that the 2nd amendment that if the amendment is truly an anti-tyranny guarantee, it should guarantee the citizenry right to have stinger missiles and other weapons that stop tanks and drones. We would certainly be able to more effectively overthrow a tyrannical government with such weaponry, but in the last century, many successful revolutions have occurred without them, as others here have pointed out.
But I am not one who thinks that in order to have an effective anti-tyranny amendment, we need to have assault rifles or stinger missiles in our homes. Why? Because we can have private civilian armories. The founding fathers had the equivalent of private civilian armories. Just like we don’t keep our money under our mattresses anymore, we don’t need assault weapons in our homes. We could have the equivalent of private banks — civilian armories. The government would have to be required to keep their hands off of the armories by law. And if there were civilian armories everywhere, then the threat of the government shutting enough of them down to stop a revolution in progress would not be very real. The civilian armories could also have more appropriate military weaponry — such as stinger missiles. And they could provide a place for training so that we could have a well-regulated (trained was what regulated really means in this context) militia.
And when would the citizenry know it is time that their services are required to overthrow a tyrannical government? The some way our founding fathers did. When the equivalent of a contemporary Declaration of Independence is written and signed and enough people support it.
To me this is common sense.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:53 am
compare GA to NYC – GA accepts rednecks for what they are. NYC oppresses and suppresses its homeless and garbage places. take a trip to Shea stadium and see the largest dump/flea market in America. Liberals have NOT solved poverty in their neighborhoods – simply shipped it off (segregated) it in public housing projects. where would you rather be poor – living in a single wide on an acre of land in Carroll County, orliving in a 700 square foot apt on the 30th floor of a 10 building public housing complex?
RB from Gwinnett
January 17th, 2013
10:53 am
GT Says… “RB from Gwinnett ain’t no hate here bro.”
And in the same paragraph says… “You’re just a dumb cow lost in a china shop making lots of noise”
You see, GT, liberals NEVER admit they’re haters while they spew hatred on everybody who dares disagree with them for any reason. NEVER. And while we continue to point it out to you, you apparently don’t have the gene needed to see the log in your eye no matter how many times it’s pointed out to you.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
10:53 am
Fred
How did the ribs turn out?
Greg
January 17th, 2013
10:54 am
End the war on drugs, that’s all I ask. Give me that concession and you can all the automatic rifles and weapons you want.
Declan Georgia
January 17th, 2013
10:54 am
Truly a greater weapon than any man fighting for his freedom w/ modern, semi-automatic gun(s); giving a moron a newspaper column in a rag believed primarily by the ignorant.
keith
January 17th, 2013
10:54 am
i did not defend koresh. i correct an erroneous statement made on here.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 17th, 2013
10:54 am
JeffS — “You might want to check with the Vietnamese; they seemed to do a pretty darn good job back in the 60’s.”
You might want to pull back the curtain and see who was supplying and equipping them.
larry
January 17th, 2013
10:54 am
I’m beginning to beleive that all these supposed posters are really Jay: Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes, Jamvet, Paul, Granny Godzilla, TaxPayer
Well, my real name isnt larry, or is it ?
Unless we have a poster party for Bookman’s posters , we’ll never know who are behind these posts, will we ?
And really, just who are you ?
Jerome Horwitz
January 17th, 2013
10:55 am
Kam – Your 10:40 has been the one of the smarter posts I’ve seen today. The paranoid is stong today. Must be a bunch of disgruntled Man City fans? Or Liverpool?
Mark
January 17th, 2013
10:56 am
“Guns don’t overthrow tyranny or guarantee liberty. People do.”
So, let me get this straight … when some wacko does something truly awful, it’s not the person that committed the offense that is to blame … it’s the guns. But when it comes to confrontation of oppression and tryanny, it’s not the guns … it’s the people. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways. You can’t give people credit for their courage to stand up for themselves without acknowledging their ability to do really horrible, evil things. You can’t condemn guns as tools of evil without merit without giving them credit for providing people the ability to defend themselves in any number of circumstances. If you can’t recognize that simple truth it makes you look like a hypocrit that will only acknowledge that which supports his argument.
indigo
January 17th, 2013
10:57 am
JeffS – 10:51
The Vietnamese had far more than just “small arms”.
Also, we fought a limited war with a limited number of our troops.
If we had waged an all out American war against them, Vietnam today would be a barren wasteland.
I guess your homeschooling doesn’t include much history.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:57 am
anybody here want to move to liberally oriented NJ? there a 1600 square foot ranch in Pine Brook, NJ – valued at $300,000 pays almost $8800 per year in property tax. Does that sound like an efficient gov’t to anybody here?
Krystal'sBalls
January 17th, 2013
10:57 am
All this tit-for-tat and hair splitting debate just make it all the more sickening as the days pass. Seriously, who needs to be addressed are the morons that are paranoid about “tyranny” and that BS and pass the paranoia onto their children. That is what produces McVeighs and CT shooters. But that is not what we want to deal with because we know who it places under the microscope. I care more about “Pookie”, “Quatavious”, and yes “Johnnie Lee” and “Jeremy” busting in my home with nefarious intent.
Paul
January 17th, 2013
10:57 am
von 10:50
What Jay referenced was Justice Scalia’s reasoning for the majority opinion,. When you wrote
““the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” This indicates that regardless of the reason given for why they feel it needed, that all citizens can have any weapons they choose and that no government shall get in the way or interfere with that…I mean I am assuming you all know what the word INFRINGE means. ”
you directly contradicted him. It’s like saying “all citizens to NOT have the right to vote.”
You didn’t even use arguments from the minority opinion – which also rejected your ‘opinion.’
Yes, all people have opinions. But to be taken seriously, they ought to be based on ’something’ on his particular forum.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
10:57 am
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:49 am
fred – your asinine idealism threshold in this disposable commentary simply indicates just how booby thou art. I guess that arrogance feeds your inferiority complex. tell me what happened to the atlanta public housing projects.
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It’s funny when the kids try to string (what they think are) big words together and think it makes them sound smart. Unfortunately they do it incorrectly so their prose makes no sense.
I guess somehow the Atlanta housing projects (which have been torn down) are somehow, in THIS lil fellers mind, connected with the Second Amendment. I can’t wait to hear this……..
Oh yes I can. Jay leaves so the mindless trolls take over.How sad. Troll away boys, or boy, you sound the same, I think I’ll go build a computer.
Paddy O
January 17th, 2013
10:58 am
indigo is Europe today a wasteland? your emotional commentary is lacking – reality.
Granny Godzilla
January 17th, 2013
10:58 am
David G
Personal injury specialty guy, right?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 17th, 2013
10:59 am
I’ll keep it simple for you by asking how in a free and open society a polling organization could accurately gather that kind of data on firearm ownership?
How funny from the guy who constantly cited polls about elections and other matters during the election.
you are such a silly boy. Did you bother to read the links and the links cited by the Brady Campaign to support those claims. You have yet to cite any evidence to support your claim other than pulling it out of your butt (crowded in there I bet)
Mama Says
January 17th, 2013
10:59 am
Jay the facts that you mention are indeed facts and I have argued them myself, as a con. However the fact is also true that reasoned thinkers cannot rely on something being old an out of date as a reason for automatic invalidation of any amendment. Would liberals like the next republican president to use the same logic ? I believe based on Obama’s position an executive order banning abortions would be in order. What about womens sufferage can we modify the 19th amendment ? Since its a given that we all have the right to vote. I think not !
Proper constitutional law must be followed to change the constitution and nobody can argue that editing any amendment is not changing it. While it is true that the US government could easily eradicate opposition standing toe to toe it is not true that armed opposition has not and is not working all around the world. No modern rebellion confronts the governments forces head on, and I might add that tactics that followed that thinking changed even in our own rebellion. The colonies changed the tactic of standing in a field directly across from the British when it became apparent that we would be destroyed. As a matter of fact the British complained that the rebellion was being led by uncivilized people due to the fact we would not stand in formation and fight fair. Now this became more usful when Washington’s army became more trained,advance and armed, but it did not start that way.
I do not support opposition to the government which allows armed conflict against our own, however the fact remains that todays mindset of ignoring law simply because we dont find it resonable is not how it works.
If changes need to be made to any amendment then the president should put those changes forth and they should be ratified by the states, its simple !
I do have a more nuainced concervative argument that deals directly to your point though. Since you mention that only the armed forces have acess to the modern weapons of war what, how does the national guard play in this ? Isnt the guard controlled by the states ? does an old outdated 2nd amendment forbid the guard from possessing these weapons ? Can a govenor refuse to send his/her guard against the people ? Can the guard itself be the force behind a rebellion ?
Where does federal law stop if we change the 2nd amendment / constitution ?
one more point, I am certain that a reporter somewhere in the world wrote that armed opposition to Britain was suicide by the colonials since British was th emost advanced army in the world at that time, Are you glad that the voices of reason were ignored back then ? Had they not been you may not be writing anything in any paper.
lets just follow the law, thats all I am saying
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
11:00 am
JeffS
January 17th, 2013
10:51 am
So, no way a group of dedicated individuals using small arms can stand up to the military might of our government???
You might want to check with the Vietnamese; they seemed to do a pretty darn good job back in the 60’s.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow, really? You mean with those Russian and Chinese supplied artillery, morrars, Anti Aircraft missiles and Anti aircraft guns? The Soviet supplied mines and such. You mean with their Soviet MIG’s?
Wow, the stupid……… it BURNS!!!!!!!!!!!
Kam: the ribs were awesome.
keith
January 17th, 2013
11:00 am
glad i could teach you about the Americans killed by obamas drones Fred. Funny tho, most people already knew about it.