Second Amendment is not license for treason, armed revolt
According to some, the primary purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure that citizens have enough firepower to overthrow the federal government, should it become necessary to do so. If the government ever loses its fear of such a revolt, the theory goes, our liberty ends and tyranny begins.
Let me be blunt: That is mythological claptrap. But like a lot of mythological claptrap, it can push weak-minded people — the Timothy McVeighs of the world — to do stupid and dangerous things.
It is certainly true that when the Second Amendment was drafted back in the 18th century, it was plausible to believe that an armed citizenry could be a check on overweening government power. Back then, there wasn’t much difference in the weapons available to private citizens and the weapons available to the military. It could have been, and sometimes was, a more or less even fight.
Today, that is no longer the case, and it hasn’t been the case for a century or longer. Around the world, governments have access to a range of weaponry that private citizens have no hope of matching or withstanding. There is simply no comparison between the brute, deadly force that a government can wield and that wielded by private citizens, individually or collectively. Technology has rendered that aspect of the Second Amendment a dead letter.
If you want to rejuvate that aspect of the Second Amendment, you have to be willing to grant private citizens access to fully automatic weapons, Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, grenade launchers, etc. And it’s not going to happen.
That’s not just my opinion. It is also the opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court, as expressed by one of its most conservative members, Justice Antonin Scalia, in the most important Second Amendment opinion the court ever issued.
In District of Columbia v. Heller, issued in 2008, Scalia and the court made it clear for the first time that the Second Amendment “protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.” But in that same opinion, Scalia brushed aside claims that the Second Amendment guarantees citizens the means to armed revolution. He concluded that technology has rendered that part of the amendment an archaic artifact, because “a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large” and that “no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks.”
For that reason, Scalia made it clear that the Second Amendment “does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes,” and that the government is fully within its rights to ban military-style weaponry.
In Iraq, for example, gun ownership is extremely widespread, with many if not most households owning fully automatic weapons that would be banned in this country. Yet Saddam Hussein had little trouble imposing and maintaining a brutal dictatorship in that country for decades. He did not confiscate guns, because he understood that such guns posed no real threat to his tyranny.
And as Joshua Keating notes at ForeignPolicy.com, look at Tunisia and Egypt, where private gun ownership is very low but citizens have nonetheless managed to overthrow brutal military dictatorships. If government now has a massive advantage in terms of brute force, innovations such as Twitter, Facebook, cellphones and satellite TV have more than offset it in the cause of freedom.
Guns don’t overthrow tyranny or guarantee liberty. People do.
– Jay Bookman
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1,326 comments Add your comment
Oscar
January 17th, 2013
3:46 pm
That’s an assumption.
+++++
That was not an assumption. That was an analysis of a sentence structure. And the sentence structure is true. The writer of the sentence felt the right to bare arms was something that per-existed, not being created.
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
3:47 pm
As I have been saying for some time now the real TRAITORS are the PARTY LOYALISTS in both parties that have chosen party ahead of the FISCAL security and future of the USA. For decades now PARTY LOYALISTS are party first – ahead of what’s best for the FISCAL future of the USA. The HOUSE and SENATE put getting reelected ahead of what’s best for the USA. Obama is a PARTY LOYALIST. We need TERM LIMITS to rid our selves of these PARTY LOYALISTS that put themselves first and country be damned. We need a BALANCED BUDGET Amendment to the Constitution to rid ourselves of this rampant out of control spending by these PARTY LOYALISTS that threatening the future existence of this great country and ruining the future of our youth. The real TRAITORS to the USA are these exact PARTY LOYALISTS.
josef
January 17th, 2013
3:49 pm
K’CHAK
Okay…I’m in with the in crowd! -)
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
3:49 pm
Fred @ 3:42
Did I tell you about my newest purchase???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHHj8IavEjk
Now I can really get my 2nd Amendment fix every time somebody tailgates me on 285.
godless heathen
January 17th, 2013
3:50 pm
Seriously though the registration isn’t about confiscation. That is just a fear based reaction. It is mostly going to be used to track where a gun goes after it is used to commit a crime. Even if you, as a private person, have your gun stolen or sell it, and that person does not register it, the initial registration helps track down what happened. If you sold it, you can be helpful in solving a crime committed by said gun. If it was stolen, you can be helpful in helping solve a crime committed by said gun.
Automobiles are registered so they can be taxed.
If a gun is stolen from the purchaser, the purchaser is wise to report it stolen to the authorities. I know I would, for my own protection.
It is mostly going to be used to track where a gun goes after it is used to commit a crime.
Criminals aren’t going to register guns.
So the government having a list of the guns I own would prevent crime, how?
Jm
January 17th, 2013
3:50 pm
Sfd
Did not know that
Truth be told most states are fairly purple
td
January 17th, 2013
3:50 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 17th, 2013
2:52 pm
Thank you for giving an honest answer. I would actually like to see what other progressives would add to you list. As far as your points, I will agree with the extensive penalties for people committing crimes with guns but I do not think I will agree with most of the other points due to the “shall not infringe” in the 2nd Amendment and I believe most of other points infringe on my right.
I saw you later talked about the mental health plea and I can agree with it.
TaxPayer
January 17th, 2013
3:51 pm
Karl Rove says that he has reliable unskewed data confirming that President Obama will confiscate the weapons of all of the con’s first-born female greatgrandchildren TONIGHT! Be a feared cons. Be vewwwwwy a feared.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
3:52 pm
josef
January 17th, 2013
3:40 pm
Okay, the first comment is supposed to be on the topic.
Yawn…
Otherwise, anything of any note worth reacting to in the previous 1100 or so comments?
++++++++++++++++
Although I didn’t see EVERY ONE of the comments, I would have to say no. I saw no particularly funny posts today, nor any big melt downs. All in all there hasn’t been a new thought shared on this blog (politically) in a week or so……….
josef
January 17th, 2013
3:53 pm
BROSEPHUS
If Geronimo had’ve had him one of them stead of that tack Cadillac…
Adam
January 17th, 2013
3:53 pm
godless: Criminals aren’t going to register guns.
So the government having a list of the guns I own would prevent crime, how?
Hence: “AFTER a crime is committed” and “help track”
Jm
January 17th, 2013
3:54 pm
Sfd
Blame John King for red blue
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
3:55 pm
As I have been saying for some time now the real TRAITORS are the PARTY LOYALISTS in both parties that have chosen party ahead of the FISCAL security and future of the USA.
So, WHEN are you gonna VOTE for a DEMOCRAT against a REPUBLICAN in a GENERAL ELECTION?
UNTIL you do THAT you’re just BLOWING SMOKE.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
3:55 pm
Brocephus: That was awesome dude. I remember being at a live fire range in Germany, for armored vehicles and they had the AA track there. I forget the designation, but it was quad Gatling guns. They were shooting at practice drones. Talk about awesome……..
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
3:56 pm
According the latest Gallup survey,
The same gallup poll that had Romney winning.
Adam
January 17th, 2013
3:56 pm
Moderate says: “I would like to take some common sense measures to help reduce crime.”
Conservative response: “But you wouldn’t have 100% PREVENTED Sandy Hook (and only Sandy Hook, nevermind all those other shootings) and if you’re not PREVENTING all crime immediately with law, then law is useless.”
The conservative position here does not make sense.
saywhat?
January 17th, 2013
3:56 pm
Dawgdad-”People opposed to further controls on guns by and large (almost universally) are law abiding citizens sitting here minding their own business. The criminals are irrelevant, because by definition they will skirt the laws to suit their purpose. The leftists are picking a fight with law-abiding citizens, citizens who understand the principles of our constitution and its rationale. , are NOT the ones picking this fight, and are not the ones shooting up school rooms. Period”
——————————————
Stop acting so persecuted and try to lose the victimhood mentality. Its not about you, or “law abiding citizens sitting here minding their own business”. NOBODY is “picking a fight” with YOU. Its about GUNS and their too easy availability for the criminals, the ones who “skirt the laws to suit their purpose”. Fewer guns equals more difficulty getting one. Less ammunition/ ammunition that is more regulated means more difficulty getting some. Its much more difficult to skirt reality (i.e. obtain a gun, or ammunition, that doesn’t exist) than skirt a law. And while “the right, cons, GOP, NRA, whoever” are not the ones shooting up school rooms, they ARE the ones ensuring that it remains far too easy to do by the policies/laws they promote and oppose.
td
January 17th, 2013
3:56 pm
Seriously Folks
January 17th, 2013
3:29 pm
I will civilly debate with anyone that wants to have a civil debate and I think you for the honest debate.
The reason a oppose the registration is because I do not think it is the governments business and violates my right to privacy to have a national database of the guns I own. I have no problem with a background check and think that is appropriate. An example: What would you think of the Feds requiring abortion providers to report every abortion they do with the names of the women and that information is held in a national database? As much as I am opposed to abortion I think that would be over the line and non of the governments business.
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
3:57 pm
josef
In Central Alabama, we’re painting them “red”.
josef
January 17th, 2013
3:58 pm
FRED
Guess I didn’t miss much, then…
Adam
January 17th, 2013
3:58 pm
td: What would you think of the Feds requiring abortion providers to report every abortion they do with the names of the women and that information is held in a national database? As much as I am opposed to abortion I think that would be over the line and non of the governments business.
What would be the purpose of proposing such a database in the first place?
Lefty Dog
January 17th, 2013
3:58 pm
CaptGuitarMan: The presidents who used Executive Orders more than any others were none other than y’alls favorites: Reagan & W. Bush. You don’t have to believe me – look it up.
josef
January 17th, 2013
3:59 pm
BROSEPHUS
Real Scootter
January 17th, 2013
3:59 pm
Otherwise, anything of any note worth reacting to in the previous 1100 or so comments?
No Josef. It’s like watching a rerun for the last 3 or 4 days! Whew
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
3:59 pm
That was awesome dude. I remember being at a live fire range in Germany, for armored vehicles and they had the AA track there. I forget the designation, but it was quad Gatling guns. They were shooting at practice drones. Talk about awesome……
Talk about compensating for something.
curious
January 17th, 2013
4:00 pm
I still contend all weapons except shotguns and bolt action rifles should undergo the class 3 transfer process.
This would ensure any law abiding, mentally capable person could obtain and possess any weapon currently available to the public.
Just like current NFA weapons, the transfer even between two private individuals would still be required to follow the class3 process.
Nobody’s 2nd Amendment rights are taken and the transfer process will screen out most non qualified people like criminals, mentally unstable, etc.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
4:00 pm
Obama is a PARTY LOYALIST
And here’s your sign. THERE is where your irrational, unfounded hatred of Obama is telling. The party loyalists are mad at him. He’s too far to the center for them. Why do you think his budget fails in the Senate? The Republicans are too stupid to vote for it and the Democrats hate it because it cuts to many entitlement programs. Hey has been lambasted by the party loyalists since he took office.
Morality is your name? Why? I think it’s moral to have intellectual integrity and you don’t. You’re about as “moral” as Christian Conservative is a “Christian.”
Reverie
January 17th, 2013
4:01 pm
As much as I am loath to do so, I will address Fred’s comments. Fred, those were solely my words, my thinking and my writing. I took a moment and added something unique and thoughtful to the discussion. I asked only that someone reading the words would understand that they emanated from my understanding of the Constitution and Bill of Rights as well as a life experience. My parents raised me to be a critical thinker. I was never told how to vote, only TO vote.
Please, do yourself a favor as well as those others that read your writing, to add something to the argument. Based upon your reply to my posting as well as your other replies, I can only conclude you lack the desire to express original, critical thinking. Based upon the tone of your writing as well as the lack of any well thought out argument, you really don’t understand what you are talking about.
Your comments are surely to follow. Hopefully they will contain something that adds to the discussion.
Firebrand
January 17th, 2013
4:01 pm
Guns don’t kill…people do.
saywhat?
January 17th, 2013
4:01 pm
td @ 3:56- IT would make no sense to keep federal records of who had an abortion…..unless somebody walked into a school, and because they had at one time in the past had an abortion, 20 kindergartners died.
oops.
I guess you gave a bad example.
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:01 pm
Adam – “You don’t need powerful weapons to defend yourself against the gub’ment”. That’s just your opinion. Afghanistan needed hand held rocket launchers or the USSR would have probably taken them over. Still, these were not sophisticated weapons by today’s standards. Where did Afghan’s get the rocket launchers since they were to poor to buy them? Enemies of the USSR of course – USA being one of them. Why on earth would anyone need a weapon that fires more than six shots? When you have seven invaders of course!
td
January 17th, 2013
4:02 pm
Adam
January 17th, 2013
3:58 pm
td: What would you think of the Feds requiring abortion providers to report every abortion they do with the names of the women and that information is held in a national database? As much as I am opposed to abortion I think that would be over the line and non of the governments business.
What would be the purpose of proposing such a database in the first place?
I think I said there was no purpose for it and I would not approve of any purpose of such a database.
What would be the purpose of having a national database of gun ownership of citizens that have not broke the law?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:02 pm
The reason a oppose the registration is because I do not think it is the governments business and violates my right to privacy to have a national database of the guns I own. I have no problem with a background check and think that is appropriate. An example: What would you think of the Feds requiring abortion providers to report every abortion they do with the names of the women and that information is held in a national database? As much as I am opposed to abortion I think that would be over the line and non of the governments business.
In other words he is towing the company line and doing what NRA tells him to.
Devil's Advocate
January 17th, 2013
4:02 pm
So the Second Amendment has been around for over 200 years and now it’s no longer necessary?
There are 3 sides to this debate:
1. Firearms for all, let nature take its course
2. All firearms should be banned because they make people do bad things
3. People who are considered reasonable lawful citizens should be allowed to possess firearms
The problem with the first group is that the Wild West lifestyle doesn’t work in our society.
The problem with the second group is that they live in fantasyland and refuse to acknowledge black markets and the fact that criminals don’t follow the law (duh!). They also refuse to explain how to actually get all firearms out of circulation.
The third group can’t get anywhere because of the first two groups.
Anyone calling for an all out ban on firearms needs to be dismissed from the conversation immediately. Problems cannot be dealt with by ignoring them. Mass shootings wouldn’t be possible without guns and car wrecks wouldn’t be possible without cars. The policy of banning doesn’t do much good in the world. Action gets way more results than implementing policy.
The only significant change in our society is the way people behave so I applaud all of Obama’s orders that seek to improve how we deal with mental health issues in this country. I do not agree with limiting magazines to 10 rounds as that doesn’t prevent mass shootings. Might want to ban pockets while he’s at it to prevent a shooter from carrying multiple mags. I think EOs should address problems and the limiting of rounds per mag doesn’t address anything. At best, it’s just doing something to say he did something. At worse, it’s an avenue to eventually banning firearms. Either way it doesn’t resolve the greater problem.
Focusing on mental health issues including the effects of violence in entertainment and criminal activity are good things. Banning stuff just to say you did something is a waste of effort.
It’s all about behavior people, not objects.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 17th, 2013
4:02 pm
Amazing. I just heard on Fox that Obama is creating a new entitlement, Obamafighterjets. Just like an Obamaphone, it’s free to Dems.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 17th, 2013
4:03 pm
G. Heathen — “So the government having a list of the guns I own would prevent crime, how?”
Same principle as the pro-gun folks here cite on a daily basis.
Sign in the yard puts criminals off. Knowing that teachers/principals might be armed deters would be school shooters.
Right?
So a listing of folks’ firearms in the hands of the FBI, ATF and your local sheriff’s department would deter folks from committing crimes *with those guns,* right? All the more reason to get *all* privately-owned firearms registered.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
4:03 pm
Lord have Mercy. I’ve been installing this Windows 7 since around noon. It’s an original unpatched version. There must have been 500 updates PLUS a service pack. I haven’t looked to see if there is a service pack 2…………
I could be here the rest of the night waiting.
But I want to build another computer. I’m giving the one I just finished away, I want a new one for ME. A super computer.
pete
January 17th, 2013
4:03 pm
I love walking out of a gun store and watch the liberals heads explode. I flash my carry permit in their face, and they start to babble like idiots. Pissing off liberals has actually become a new hobby for me.
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
4:03 pm
Fred
I would give anything to spend a day out on the range when something like that’s going on. Both of my brothers were field artillery back in the day.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:04 pm
What would be the purpose of having a national database of gun ownership of citizens that have not broke the law?
Because when and if those guns were used in a crime it would be very helpful to the police.
If you dont believe me ask them.
Itchy Finger
January 17th, 2013
4:05 pm
Brosephus™
Gun safety is an ongoing non-stop event. Just because you “think” you know something can make you the prime candidate to be hurt in an accident. Hubris kills more than anything else.
And so is driving. You’d have no problem taking a driving assessment and drivers test every year would you???
stands for decibels
January 17th, 2013
4:06 pm
Pissing off liberals has actually become a new hobby for me.
New hobby? I always thought it was the conservatives’ Prime Directive.
/drive-by
td
January 17th, 2013
4:07 pm
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:02 pm
If my belief in personal freedom and keeping the government out of my business as much as possible is the “company line” then so be it. BTW: since I am a contributor to the NRA am I following their opinion or are they following mine?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 17th, 2013
4:08 pm
Devil’s Advocate? or the Straw Man Advocate?
Devil's Advocate
January 17th, 2013
4:08 pm
Adam,
Why act if the action isn’t going to address the problem? Shouldn’t effort and resources be placed on developing a quality solution instead of doing something for the sake of it then putting the issue on the back burner only to be victim to it again eventually?
Common sense measures do not mean knee jerk reactions anymore than “doing nothing.”
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
4:08 pm
pete
January 17th, 2013
4:03 pm
I love walking out of a gun store and watch the liberals heads explode. I flash my carry permit in their face, and they start to babble like idiots. Pissing off liberals has actually become a new hobby for me.
++++++++++++++++++
What a sad pathetic unfulfilled life you must lead. You have my pity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljQMpgVY5mg
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
4:09 pm
Fred @ 4:00
You can’t post stuff like that without a disclaimer dude. I damn near coughed up a lung trying to stop laughing so hard.
Regnad Kcin
January 17th, 2013
4:09 pm
” Just think now Jay – IF Obama gives an order to gun down citizens of the USA because they oppose him and the military REFUSES that order then Obama is powerless to carry it out.”
Man, you have some freakin’ bizarre fantasies – this is why folks find it hard to keep you off their “scroll past” list.
splavistic
January 17th, 2013
4:10 pm
Good article, Jay!
M in Cumming
January 17th, 2013
4:10 pm
Curious, i would like to see a tax and test for competency for people to be able to vote. Also, a tax and test for journalists to write what they want to. We can clean out a lot of BS with these common sense proposals.
Granny Godzilla
January 17th, 2013
4:11 pm
Well while we have been schooling the right on gun safety…
We are missing the GOP about to cave on the debt ceiling.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
4:11 pm
Because when and if those guns were used in a crime it would be very helpful to the police.
It’s my understanding that they already have a database of the concealed carry permit holders and that includes tag numbers of the vehicles they drive.
Whenever a CCW holder gets pulled over for a traffic violation, it’s a sure bet that LEO has his hand on his weapon as he approaches the vehicle.
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:11 pm
FRED (TM) – I don’t vote for a party – I vote for the person that, in my opinion, is least likely to ruin this country’s FISCAL future. Obama voted for EVERY big spending expansion of the FED gub’ment while he was in Congress….listed as the #2 big spender in Congress right behind Bernie Sanders (admitted SOCIALIST) Obviously you are part of the problem and not part of the solution to this FISCAL debt if you voted for PARTY LOYALIST Obama.Obama is not a FISCAL conservative. Obama, like “W”, is a FISCAL liberal and a PARTY LOYALIST.
oneofeach4me
January 17th, 2013
4:11 pm
my post is caught in cyberland.. hmmmm…..
Joe Hussein Mama
January 17th, 2013
4:13 pm
td — “What would you think of the Feds requiring abortion providers to report every abortion they do with the names of the women and that information is held in a national database?”
FWIW, medical providers *do* have to keep records, and some states have subpoenaed those records from time to time.
If you don’t think your weapons should be registered, then can you suggest some ways in which criminals using firearms could be more quickly or efficiently tracked down and caught? If law enforcement could quickly determine what weapon had been used in a given crime, that would give them valuable information to go on and potentially speed up their investigation.
I recognize that you’re in favor of more vigorous prosecution of firearms-related offenses, but I have to wonder *how* you expect law enforcement to accomplish that.
godless heathen
January 17th, 2013
4:13 pm
Hence: “AFTER a crime is committed” and “help track”
I think it will require more specific information than that about what the governments intentions are with the registry of guns that many are advocating, in order to convince gun owners that it’s not about either confiscation or taxation. I can see a scenario where a criminal shoots someone and throws down the gun and runs away, and the recovery of the gun leads to an arrest through ownership tracking, but I would think that is not as common as we see on TV. Most likely the criminal has obtained the gun illegally and it would not be associated with him/her through any registration process.
But I do watch Law and Order and they are all the time zeroing in on the citizen that has a registered gun. Of course if it’s their first suspect, it’s always the wrong one.
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
4:13 pm
Itchy Finger: You’d have no problem taking a driving assessment and drivers test every year would you???
As a matter of fact, I don’t have a problem with such a thing as I have to do that every two years as a part of my job. Thanks for asking though. I also have to recertify my marksmanship 4 times a year, recertify my arrest techniques, and my less-than-lethal compliance training every year. I’ve been pepper sprayed, and whenever it’s approved, I’ll ride the lightning with the tazer.
I have no problem with reccurent training as I know that’s the only way you keep your skills sharp.
Any more questions?
DebbieDoRight - The FB Player's Imaginary Girlfriend From Canada
January 17th, 2013
4:13 pm
Wow! Over 1K comments! Has anyone stormed off in a fit of Diva yet?
“Dear my boyfriend, Thank you for making out with me, recently, on purpose. That was cool. Those flowers that you totally sent me were really pretty, just like you said I am.” Love your imaginary girlfriend from Canada.
pete
January 17th, 2013
4:14 pm
Fred,
I understand. It must be hard for you to find a dress in your size that is the right color.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
4:14 pm
Reverie
January 17th, 2013
4:01 pm
Your comments are surely to follow. Hopefully they will contain something that adds to the discussion.
++++++++++++++++++
I added much to the discussion. I even added a well thought out, substantiated rebuttal to your silly little claim of not using talk radio/FOXBOT lies.
I guess you just totally ignored the part about that Leftist President George Bush and his Patriot act right? I mean because he’s your hero you just ignore the stripping of rights and the shredding of the Constitution that THAT act did.
You see chief, unlike you I am an Independent. That means i don’t spare the left or the right because I have to ‘’support” a lie.
Your simple minded attempt at chastisement is a FAIL. You choose to ignore anything that doesn’t fit into your little NRA Republican box and thus CLAIM someone said nothing.
I said plenty to you pal. I can explain it TO you, but I can’t understand it FOR you.
Nice try at some thinly veiled passive aggressive lying…….
GT
January 17th, 2013
4:15 pm
Guns are like a 99 year old man buying a bushel of condoms. It is more for his mind than reality.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:16 pm
I love walking out of a gun store and watch the liberals heads explode.
That is pretty sad.
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:16 pm
Jay’s a member of the dreaded PARTY LOYALISTS.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 17th, 2013
4:16 pm
But a new study from Fairleigh Dickinson University suggests that so-called birthers are far more numerous than previously thought. Sixty four percent of Republicans polled by the university’s PublicMind project said that it was “probably true” that Obama is hiding details of his personal history, including possibly his birth place. Also polled were the conspiracy theories that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job (25 percent of all respondents said that was “probably true”), that President Bush stole the 2004 election (23 percent), and that Obama stole the 2012 election (20 percent).
The survey found that 75 percent of Republicans believe at least one of the conspiracy theories that were polled, compared to 56 percent of Democrats who believed at least one of the four. Interestingly, while the overall likelihood of a respondent believing at least one of the conspiracies was inversely proportional to that individual’s knowledge of current events, Republicans who were more informed were also more likely to believe in the conspiracies.
Bert Oleander
January 17th, 2013
4:17 pm
Jay should have been around during the Revolutionary war. He could have advised our founders.
oneofeach4me
January 17th, 2013
4:17 pm
A few things that I notice when having the “gun debate”
1. People equating gun control with a total gun ban. They are not the same thing. A ban is just that, a total ban. Gun control however is just setting parameters. Gun control opponents like to bring up that you shouldn’t take away a law abiding citizen’s right to bear arms (of any kind), yet, as the Federal law stands right now, a felon can walk into a gun show and buy anything he/she desires from a non-registered dealer. Heck, the felon can just buy it from the guy down the street if he wants to, and no one is held responsible as long as the private seller didn’t know his customer was a felon. Do you have any idea how many guns are sold this way where there is no paper trail whatsoever to trace them to the “bad guys”?
2. Justification. What need does an average citizen have for owning a military style assault weapon with a hundred round drum?
Gun Advocate: “I need one (a military style assault rifle) in case crap goes downhill or doomsday comes and I need to defend my family”
Me: “Well, while you are preparing, do you know how to grow your own food? Do you know how to raise cattle? Do you know how to build shelter? Do you know of natural remedies that can serve as antibiotics in case of infection?
Gun Advocate: Blank stare and crickets……..
3. Foot-in-Mouth. Why ban assault rifles?
Me: “I know that banning military assault rifles will not rid the world of violence and that they are only part of the problem regarding mass murders and killing sprees. However, they are still part of the problem because we can minimize the amount of damage (and the number of lives) a person can take in a short amount of time.”
Gun Advocate: “Not really. Assault rifles are no more dangerous than a handgun”
Me: “Say what?? Huh?? But, but, you just said….. ugh I digress. Well, in that case then your justification for owning one as an average citizen is negated because a handgun can accomplish the same thing as the military assault rifle correct”?
Gun Advocate: Blank stare and crickets……..
4. Banning assault rifles will not stop someone……
Gun Advocate: “Do you really think that will stop someone? If they want it, they will just go get it illegally”.
Me: “Hmmm, okay, so if you refer back to your justification for owning assault rifles is to defend yourself from tyranny and doomsday, what the heck would stop you from obtaining one illegally? I mean, come on, if you are actively involved in a coup d’état then you aren’t really worried about breaking the law are you?”
5. And last but certainly not least…..
Gun Advocate: “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people”.
Me: “Well then, since you have made that clear, since people kill people, then shouldn’t we take the guns away from people?”.
IJS…. people…..when your stance on an issue is driven from pure fear, irrational thinking, simple mindedness, and plain defiance (no one tells me what to do!!), then you are going to have holes (pun intended) all in your argument.
Real Scootter
January 17th, 2013
4:18 pm
Both of my brothers were field artillery back in the day.
Good afternoon Bro!!!!
My dad was an Officer in atillery at Fort Gordon. He was responsible for the fire power shows for the public.I loved going to see those when I was a kid.
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:18 pm
GT – Try stopping a home invasion with condoms and then call me back if you still exist.
Itchy Finger
January 17th, 2013
4:19 pm
Brosephus™
As a matter of fact, I don’t have a problem with such a thing as I have to do that every two years as a part of my job. Thanks for asking though. I also have to recertify my marksmanship 4 times a year, recertify my arrest techniques, and my less-than-lethal compliance training every year. I’ve been pepper sprayed, and whenever it’s approved, I’ll ride the lightning with the tazer.
I have no problem with reccurent training as I know that’s the only way you keep your skills sharp.
Any more questions?
Well that’s great… Lets push the idea! Of course it will put more undue burden on the poor and middle class but who care’s… We gotta be safe don’t we….
josef
January 17th, 2013
4:19 pm
M in Cumming
“Curious, i would like to see a tax and test for competency for people to be able to vote. Also, a tax and test for journalists to write what they want to. We can clean out a lot of BS with these common sense proposals.
What would be the content of those tests? Who would design them? Who would administer them? Who would evaluate them? Expand on that please…
Peace
January 17th, 2013
4:19 pm
About that gun registry database. If Johnny B. buys a gun and provides all the registration info that BHO wants, will Buckwheat do the same when he steals the same gun from Johnny’s pickup truck?
Local Guy
January 17th, 2013
4:19 pm
“According to some” is worse than meaningless. Any extreme idea can be so prefaced. You can do better and usually do.
That’s quite an assertion the average 18th century citizen had weapons not that different from the artillery and warships of governments. Most citizens of the time were not only poorly armed but not that well fed either. History seems pretty clear an old single shot musket that takes a minute or longer to re-load is not a fair fight with a line of cannons.
I understand your point and the need to sell advertising space, but this column is not impressive.
pogo
January 17th, 2013
4:20 pm
There will be no armed revolt if our government continues to adhere to this country’s Constitution. If it doesn’t, then that changes things. Obama seemingly does not think much of the constitution (even though he is a “Constitutional” lawyer. I think he majored in constitutional law to see how much he could get around that revered document. But, at least at this stage of his career he knows he has to at least appear to stay within its confines.
And Jay, don’t take for granted that if (God forbid) an armed revolt ever does occur that the soliders and the police are going to side with the government. They will not kill their own in the name of a dictator. Obama is self-absorbed and he has a messianic complex but I don’t think he is really intelligent enough to cause a revolt. Then again!!!!!!!
One other thing; Obama’s trotting out his little high-fiving props yesterday in his gun speech is one of the most dispiccable things I think I have ever seen an American leader do. Perhaps he should have explained to them about how he is destroying their future by putting this country deeper and deeper into debt with his non-existant fiscal policy (which is going to fall on their shoulders).
godless heathen
January 17th, 2013
4:20 pm
So a listing of folks’ firearms in the hands of the FBI, ATF and your local sheriff’s department would deter folks from committing crimes *with those guns,* right? All the more reason to get *all* privately-owned firearms registered.
Short answer. No.
Aquagirl
January 17th, 2013
4:20 pm
my post is caught in cyberland.. hmmmm…..
If it had a gun that would have never happened. Now it’s helpless and at the mercy of tyrants in Cyberland.
indigo
January 17th, 2013
4:20 pm
Morality? – 3:47
We have the best Congress money can buy.
That’s because getting elected and re-elected in the number one priority of our politicians.
Party loyality is in 2nd place. While it is a serious issue, getting the money out of politics is a far worse problem.
Until this problem is solved, don’t look for any changes coming out of Washington.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:20 pm
If my belief in personal freedom and keeping the government out of my business as much as possible is the “company line” then so be it.
Im all for your personal freedom.
But when it involves a gun that could be used to kill another human being
Thats where your freedom stops.
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
4:21 pm
pete
January 17th, 2013
4:14 pm
Fred,
I understand. It must be hard for you to find a dress in your size that is the right color.
++++++++++++++++++++
Oh HELL no. What’s hard is finding the right shoes, handbag and boa to go with it. Accessories are a BITCH.
M in Cumming
January 17th, 2013
4:21 pm
Let’s have common sense abortion rules. $200 Obamacare tax, education materials which must be read with a test on them in writing and english. You must watch a video of the procedure and see live sonograms of your fetus. Then you can have the abortion and we will not be infringing on anyones right to it. Only extremists will not agree with me.
Doggone/GA
January 17th, 2013
4:21 pm
“But I want to build another computer. I’m giving the one I just finished away, I want a new one for ME”
Lemme tell you MY experience. I, too, wanted a newer and especially FASTER computer. So my company has a deal with HP and I ordered one from them. Got it for 20% off retail plus free shipping. Ordered one stuffed with memory and a huge hard drive (I have lots of photos and will be working with videos too) Came with Windows 7. All I wanted was something that would run the programs I already have, but faster.
But I didn’t pay QUITE enough attention to the stats, and ordered a 64 bit PC instead of 32. So my printer wouldn’t work with it (heck the drivers were on those 6 1/2 in diskettes! I’ve had it a while!) – so I found a deal on an open package new printer. Got it for $50. Then my scanner wouldn’t work, there’s no longer any support for it and no drivers for Windows 7. Back to eBay, got a pretty good deal on another scanner.
The 2 of my old programs wouldn’t run. And there’s no “modern” equivilent for them. But I found out if I upgraded to Windows 7 Professional I could download “Virtual XP machine” software and they should run. Did that, and they do. Except, I didn’t have the disk for one of them anymore, no idea what happened to it. So I bought it again – luckily it’s still available. But it turned out I bought the basic version and it didn’t have the features I needed. So I had to turn around and buy the upgraded version.
Then the software for my PDA wouldn’t run and I REALLY didn’t want to buy a new one. So I searched around on the net and found a site for a totally different company that uses the same software on their PDAs and they had instructions for getting the PC software to work. Solved that problem!
Then I had to buy the upgraded software for my cell phone, it’s no longer available free.
So much for getting a better PC that would run all my existing software!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 17th, 2013
4:22 pm
Jay’s a member of the dreaded PARTY LOYALISTS.
JAY’S a member of the CREW of the DREAD PIRATE, ROBERTS!
godless heathen
January 17th, 2013
4:24 pm
oneofeach4me: What need does an average citizen have for owning a military style assault weapon with a hundred round drum?
Are you saying we should only be allowed to own what you determine that we need?
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:24 pm
Gun control? And I guess the INSANE in Hollyweird North aka D.C. are going to decide who is sane enough to have a gun?. Let’s start with disarming Congress and the Prez of the U.S> ….. but but but but but but!
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
4:24 pm
Real Scootter
I was waiting on somebody to throw in a M102 the other day when the examples of jets and nukes were being thrown around. I’m curious if I could actually purchase an M102 to tow behind my suburban. I could take that puppy out into the countryside and do some serious hunting. To hell with shooting deer one at a time. Why not get the whole herd with one shell?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:25 pm
About that gun registry database. If Johnny B. buys a gun and provides all the registration info that BHO wants, will Buckwheat do the same when he steals the same gun from Johnny’s pickup truck?
Probably not but at least if Johnny B. kills somebody we have his info.
td
January 17th, 2013
4:25 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 17th, 2013
4:13 pm
td — “What would you think of the Feds requiring abortion providers to report every abortion they do with the names of the women and that information is held in a national database?”
FWIW, medical providers *do* have to keep records, and some states have subpoenaed those records from time to time.
Just like stores have to keep records of gun sales, who bought them and the Federal background check attached to the paperwork.
Not buying the argument to make policing more efficient as a reason to give up my right to privacy. Policing would be more efficient and a great deal of crimes could be stopped before they actually happened if police could monitor or data mine all phone calls and emails.Do you want them to have this capability?
oneofeach4me
January 17th, 2013
4:25 pm
lol@ Aquagirl ~ Actually it was my all caps holding my post hostage. I toned it down and it has since been released!
oneofeach4me
January 17th, 2013
4:27 pm
@heathen ~ However you want to spin it, be my guest.
DebbieDoRight - The FB Player's Imaginary Girlfriend From Canada
January 17th, 2013
4:27 pm
Well that’s great… Lets push the idea! Of course it will put more undue burden on the poor and middle class but who care’s… We gotta be safe don’t we
If they’re so poor, they probably couldn’t afford a gun in the first place. They’d have to get theirs from the black market.
==============
If Johnny B. buys a gun and provides all the registration info that BHO wants, will Buckwheat do the same when he steals the same gun from Johnny’s pickup truck?
If Johnny reports the gun stolen, then in a roundabout way, YES — Buckwheat has in fact provided information to the feds.
See………….all that trolling and you actually (probably by accident), asked a pretty interesting question!
PS: Sorry you didn’t get the irate, irrational, totally emotional response you wanted! Better trolling next time!
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 17th, 2013
4:28 pm
Gun control? And I guess the INSANE in Hollyweird North aka D.C. are going to decide who is sane enough to have a gun?
They are. I dont think you are going to make the cut.
josef
January 17th, 2013
4:28 pm
FRED
Finding the right boa is not that difficult if you know the right people…
Matti
January 17th, 2013
4:30 pm
Stupid little suckers think they’re empowering themselves by buying shizz-tons of weapons for their personal use. Cuz a couple hunting rifles and a hand gun for your home are simply not enough!! Know who you’re really empowering, Sparky? The gun and ammo manufacturers who get filthy effing rich on YOUR P***Y-LIKE PARANOIA. Yeah you. P*ssies. Patsies. Suckers. So pathetically easy to dupe. Geebus, where are the REAL men anymore?
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:30 pm
Indigo – AND just who do you think the lobbyist’s kick backs and payoffs are directed ? PARTY LOYALISTS of whatever PARTY is in charge at the time – that’s who. TERM LIMITS for Congress to rid us of the traitor PARTY LOYALISTS that put themselves ahead of the FISCAL future existence of the USA.
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
4:30 pm
Lets push the idea! Of course it will put more undue burden on the poor and middle class but who care’s…
Which idea? Reccurent firearm training for hunters, concealed carry permit holders, and others. Or are you talking about your driving retesting idea?
Fred ™
January 17th, 2013
4:30 pm
DDR: He also didn’t get a bite on his racist, “white redneck buys gun, black thug buckwheat steals it” either lol.
Gale
January 17th, 2013
4:30 pm
I feel your pain, Doggone. I am in the final tweaking stage of my new PC. The only hardware that won’t work with Win 7 was the network adapter. Not a big problem. The biggest pain has been the software that has a “cloud” component. Life was easier when I just put in the CD and reloaded the software. Then, there is the multiple accounts I cannot seem to wrap my head around. I have a admin account so my security is happy. I loaded my software and switched to the me account… The programs are not found. Grrr. Solved now, but what a pain!
Real Scootter
January 17th, 2013
4:33 pm
To hell with shooting deer one at a time. Why not get the whole herd with one shell?
That’s awesome Bro! And you wouldn’t even have to butcher and cook them cause it would already be done.
Brosephus™
January 17th, 2013
4:33 pm
Policing would be more efficient and a great deal of crimes could be stopped before they actually happened if police could monitor or data mine all phone calls and emails.Do you want them to have this capability?
Patriot Act homie!!!
Doggone/GA
January 17th, 2013
4:33 pm
“Solved now, but what a pain!”
Yep! It was SUCH a relief when my “Virtual” apps finally ran. Neither of them can be replaced with “modern” versions without costing me literaly HUNDREDS of dollars each to buy programs with FAR more features than I will ever need or want.
Morality?
January 17th, 2013
4:35 pm
Cheeze Wiz – When the INSANE are in charge they just continue the insanity….. spending us over the FISCAL CLIFF. The primary reason Obama is all over this now is that he and the Dems consider gun advocates to be their POLITICAL enemy. This is all about politics.