Obama’s gun-safety agenda a great place to start debate

Am I really first?

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http://compare.ebay.com/like/230837126310?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

With Armstrong fading and the country turning more political than religious I want all of you to be able order my WWCD (”What Would Cheney DO) bracelet on a pre release- please tell your friends.

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WWCD? Shoot a friend and make him apologize?

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Personally, I think the one that has them most afraid is the one regarding identification and treatment of the mentally ill…..

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http://www.viciousstyle.com/black-leather-bracelet-with-spikes-p-388.html

damn link- completely lost my audience

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Good advice Steve:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/inside-obamas-presidency/

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Paul, I agree that certainly could have some horrendous implications for misdiagnosis. I am not worried about the pumped up fake fear that somehow doctors will be “liable” for failures or that we are making them responsible.

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“However, assault weapons have a well-documented emotional appeal to those most likely to engage in mass killings such as those at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It is clearly their weapon of choice, perhaps because features that the gun lobby dismisses as mere cosmetic in fact give such weapons a military authority and aura that feed into deadly fantasies. We are under no obligation to continue to pander to such fantasies…If the murderers believe such magazines are useful, then we ought to try to deny them that equipment.”

Not particularly strong arguments for these proposals. Using that kind of reasoning, then since pedophiles have a documented interest in pornography, we should ban pornography. Are you okay with that?

I am afraid you will need better reasons and evidence for banning assault weapons and clips over 10 rounds. Reasonable, well-considered gun control shouldn’t target a particular kind of gun violence. What is to be done about all of those who are NOT law abiding and committing murders and assaults with gun that GREATLY outnumber those perpetrated by evil mass killers? Obama is justly open to criticism on this point. It is almost as if he cares far more about passing gun laws than reducing the murder rates in cities like Chicago (where he is from). His “plan” is far from being comprehensive.

“Those who oppose the reforms must therefore attempt to shift the debate to the irrational, a battlefield on which they have the advantage by virture of more experience and firepower.”

Or be called a racist (because they oppose Obama’s “sensible” and “rational” policies)?

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Using that kind of reasoning, then since pedophiles have a documented interest in pornography, we should ban pornography. Are you okay with that?

We DO ban child pornography. Try a little harder with these analogies next time, won’t you?

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Keep

On a serious note, I do see that. But, I was being tongue in cheek. The irrational zealots being the ones most afraid of someone from the soshulist gubmint coming to see if they’re mentally competent…..

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as a Army vet and someone who has personally trained on the M-16, I know first hand the damage that and other weapons like it can do.

It has absolutely NO PLACE in civilian society.

Those weapons are made for one purpose and one purpose only: to kill. To kill as many as possible in as little time as possible.

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Those who oppose the reforms must therefore attempt to shift the debate to the irrational, a battlefield on which they have the advantage by virture of more experience and firepower.

Please stop belittling others.

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Same for cops??? And if the Feds can’t keep records of gun owners, how are they going to enforce this private sale BS?

You know, RB’s a guy I want on my team.

He has that can’t-do spirit.

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I’m from the government and I’m here to help….$500 million will turn in to $750 milliion and another government bureaucracy is born.

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“we should ban pornography. Are you okay with that?”

I thought you called an end to the sex talk?

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“In the weeks to come, the objection to such basic, common-sense reforms is likely to consist of heated, repeated cries of “Second Amendment!” and “tyrant!”, “Hitler” and variations thereof. ”

Oops, Jay, look who used the “N” word first:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2013/01/16/bob-schieffer-likens-obama-taking-gun-lobby-hunt-bin-laden-defeating-

Sorry to undermine your anticipatory denigration of those who oppose the good president.

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Hi Midori!

ALways happy to see you post.

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Sodomy is illegal in Georgia (I think). Is it the government’s business if you libs sodomize each other? Nor is it the government’s business that I own a gun.

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I assume the 10 round magazine limit applies to Obama’s secret service team as well since they retain those weapons when they’re off duty??

You assume wrong yet again. Law enforcement status doesn’t change whether you’re on duty or not. You’re still a first responder, and you are considered law enforcement even on your off days. Nice fail though.

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Dang, I forgot my smiley on my 3:34. Let me put it here…….

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Sodomy is…

There’s your sign.

Big.

Bright.

Flaming.

Pink.

Neon.

Sign

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Universal background checks: YES…So long as those background checks can be expedited so that legal purchases of guns and ammo can still be made at gun shows, where background checks should be required, but arranged in a such a way where they can be done without putting wildly-popular gun shows out of business.

Vastly improving our failing mental health system: YES

Cracking down on gun trafficking and straw purchases and sales: YES…So long as gun sales and transfers between family members and close friends are not unnecessarily restricted.

Prohibiting assault weapons: NO

Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds: NO

Get all of the illegally-possessed guns out of the hands of violent criminals using them to commit deadly crimes and then we can talk about proposed restrictions on legally and responsibly possessed by law-abiding citizens.

Until then it’s NO DEAL on banning assault weapons and magazines larger than 10 clips (but improving access to mental health services and expanding background checks to cover gun shows and impersonal private gun sales are a go).

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Brosephus™

January 16th, 2013
3:39 pm
I assume the 10 round magazine limit applies to Obama’s secret service team as well since they retain those weapons when they’re off duty??

You assume wrong yet again. Law enforcement status doesn’t change whether you’re on duty or not. You’re still a first responder, and you are considered law enforcement even on your off days. Nice fail though

Laws for thee, but not for me! says the prez!

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“If the murderers believe such magazines are useful, then we ought to try to deny them that equipment.”
Maybe, just maybe, it’s what they had and they didn’t really decide on one magazine vs the other. Maybe they put on their run-fast shoes too… because they were useful.

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Hi Midori.
bye Midori, I have to go pick up my daughter. Nice to see you though. Come back when I can stay longer lol.

Oh and don’t make any posts about the fear mongering of the Republicans and their talk show hosts. I got scolded for laughing at one guys fear.

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Has anyone bothered to read this yet?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Jay?

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Sodomy.

Pornography.

Back to wanting all the weapons the feds have.

Jay, even you couldn’t have predicted all of this in response to the president’s proposals.

Those mental health checks can’t get done fast enough…

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Hi Midori

Good to see you.

Steve,

No problem.

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stands for decibels

January 16th, 2013
3:46 pm
and the dimlibs laughed at the NRA over this idea.

You and Scout keep claiming this. Of course, that’s not what the NRA was proposing, nor what those cray-cray “libs” were complaining about. At all.

Here is is, from the horse’s ass’ mouth himself.

From the NRA’s press release you cited:

I call on Congress today to act immediately, to appropriate whatever is
necessary to put armed police officers in every school — and to do it
now, to make sure that blanket of safety is in place when our children
return to school in January.

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- Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would make gun owners less able to defend themselves against multiple attackers, because they would be forced to reload more often.

– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would do nothing to slow down those intent on mass murder, because it takes no time at all to exchange clips.

Those are not conflicting statements Bookman and both accurate.

The former pertains to an individual protecting themself from an armed intruder or intruders. The later refers to ferret-faced miscreants like Lanza who are murdering unarmed innocents.

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Growing up around guns and owning several, I understand the unbelievable power and responsibility that they entail. Because of this, I have no problem making it harder for the average person to obtain a firearm (and don’t believe for two seconds that this is the first step to total confiscation – never happen) until they have proven themselves to be trained to use it. AR’s with 100 round drum mags have no place in the hands of someone who just on a whim wanted one.

However, none of these proposals are going to reduce gun violence or prevent these tragedies from occurring again. Gun ownership is at an all time high and – despite what many believe – violent gun crimes occur at half the rate they did 20 years ago and mass shootings have decreased steadily. I have no idea what the solution is to stop the maniacs from slaughtering innocents, but nothing here is gonna come close. All this whole episode has accomplished is putting guns in the hands of people who’ve never owned one, don’t know how to use one, and only bought it because their buddy told them the revolution is on the way. Do I think this will lead to an increase in gun related homicides? Probably not. Accidental deaths by idiots who don’t know what they are doing/kids who found daddy’s new pistol in the sock drawer and actually shoot someone? WITHOUT A DOUBT.

This whole debate is distracting us from finding a real solution to stopping these massacres, although I have absolutely no idea what that solution is. Hopefully someone smarter than I am does.

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“Those mental health checks can’t get done fast enough…”

Okay, Paul, we are ready to see you now.

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Ah Jay,
On your way to building a consensus.(at least among the gunhaters).
Read the posts in your last diatribe against the NRA (and us members by association).
Is there hope for a give and take solution? Absolutely not!

Do you understand now why there are many (more than you will admit) of us who think it is time to divorce ourselves from Obamaland and form a “more perfect union”?
Great Britain is doing it by Freeing Scotland (after 268 years of occupation) to form its own parliament and government.

Obama is proposing Doctor’s violate the Doctor/patient confidentiality and report possible dangerous patients to the government? WOW isn’t that guilty before the fact? If you are depressed are you dangerous? How about bipolar? Is a Doctor libel if they miss a dangerous patient and he goes Postal? Talk about your thought police!!
What next? government monitors on every block to watch their neighbors to see who might be having “Dangerous” thoughts about the government? Oh yes, they have already tried that in East Germany and it worked fairly well at putting down descent. After all its to protect the children (didn’t you see them huddled behind the glorious leader for protection).
Consensus? oh yes, just hold your breath for me to bring in my firearms to the government.

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Here’s to hoping the 1st Amendment is next on the agenda. Then after that, we’ll live in The United State of Utopia.

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rwe @ 3.55: Do you really think that’s the same as–Jay’s language here–”as many as 1,000 federally funded, armed police officers in schools”?

And, you’re conveniently missing the bit where that loon went on to claim we could take up the fiscal slack by just deputizing a bunch of, well, basically anyone who’d ever had a gun as part of his/her paid gig.

All by January 2013.

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Nurse Ratched

“Okay, Paul, we are ready to see you now.”

I hope you booked the full staff and a LOT of time…..

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“Those mental health checks can’t get done fast enough…”

conservatism is a mental defect so……………….

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“Then after that, we’ll live in The United State of Utopia.”

Where have you been? We’ve been living in the United States of Utopia since the Bush tax cuts were enacted.

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oldguy

“On your way to building a consensus.(at least among the gunhaters).
Read the posts in your last diatribe against the NRA (and us members by association).
Is there hope for a give and take solution? Absolutely not! ”

You may want to read Jay’s thread on “Most gun owners far more reasonable than the NRA”

It has facts like these:

“According to the ABC/WaPo poll, most Americans don’t put much credence in that fantasy. It found that 71 percent of Americans support creation of a national gun database. That includes 61 percent of Republicans.

In addition, 65 percent of Americans — including 59 percent of Republicans — say they support a ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Seventy-six percent would require a background check before a person is allowed to purchase ammunition, a figure that includes 69 percent of Republicans.

That strong bipartisan consensus breaks down only on the issue of a ban on assault weapons. Overall, 58 percent of Americans and 54 percent of independents would support such a ban, but only 45 percent of Republicans would do so.

But the most telling data in the poll involves the 44 percent of those surveyed who live in a home where guns are kept. Of that subset, 86 percent would support closing the “gun-show” loophole on background checks. Seventy-six percent of gun owners endorse a background check for ammo sales; 62 percent would back a national firearms database, and 55 percent support a ban on large-capacity magazines.”

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If you value human life more than corporate profits, this should definitely be included in the “debate”.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

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This whole debate is distracting us from finding a real solution to stopping these massacres, although I have absolutely no idea what that solution is. Hopefully someone smarter than I am does.

We are a morally sick country and getting sicker.

Since the 1960s, and the introduction of modern liberal thinking, our country has become more violent…and more accepting of violence. For example..the movie industry used to be regulated by the Hays Code. As our country become “more modern” and Hollywood wanted more freedom in the production of movies our standards declined. Bad guys use to have to be brought to justice in movies in Hollywood’s Golden Era…..in today’s movies they are celebrated.

As moral relativism gained traction in the 60s the boundary between right and wrong became blurred…in many cases right became wrong and wrong became right. We began to move away from our country’s traditional Judeo Christian values into a “whatever feels good do it” value system.

In January 1973 we legalized a culture of death through Roe v Wade whereby the state legalized the murder of the unborn child. We have “legally” murdered 55 million children in this country since then.

If a country will turn its eye to this kind of a holocaust then all human life becomes cheap.

You can ban all of the guns you want. Evil will turn to pipe bombs as in Columbine. Or Molotov Cocktails. Evil will find a way to kill.

We have to deal with evil….heck, we have to first recognize evil exists in this world. That’s something many on the left refuse to acknowledge.

Until we deal with these kind of moral issues we are going to have more Sandy Hooks and more Columbines I’m afraid.

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“bmdpd, I’m very familiar with the UCS stats, but I’m not sure what your point is.”

I will go out on a limb here and say that maybe his point was that about 80% of gun murders involve handguns (probably most of which are illegally brandished). Ever heard of the Pareto principle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

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@ Jay

Reducing that number would be a huge achievement. But, bmpd is right. None of these proposals are going to reduce it. Out of those 10,000 deaths, how many do you honestly believe would have been averted if the 11th time the trigger was pulled there was a click instead of a bang? I’m ok with the restrictions but I’ve still yet to see one case in which restricting firearms prevented mass killings, and none of these proposals are going to stop the majority of gun deaths.

I imagine almost all of those 10,000 deaths were single deaths, that is, only one person was killed in the incident. I can kill one person just as easily with my grandfather’s 100 year old revolver as I can with an AR.

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bmdpd,

Interesting. It seems that if there were going to be any bans on firearms it would certainly be on handguns, which account for nearly 50% of all murders and not rifles which account for 2.6% of all murders.

Wouldn’t it be a logical fallicy to want a ban on ‘assault rifles’ but no ban on handguns?

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…murder of the unborn child.

“Murder” has a legal definition.

Abortion is a legal procedure so therefore – by definition – it cannot be “murder.”

I understand and respect your feelings about abortion, but you don’t get to make up definitions of words already in existence.

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Paul, you’re right. I thought you were serious. But perhaps I don’t consider most of the conned to be mentally ill, just intellect deprived (or is it depraved?). Anyway, the brain dead should never have permits.

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Legislating American society to the lowest common denominator.

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“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States

There are 100s of quotes like these…………

The 2nd Amendment was given so we could protect ourselves against tyranny of the government. It wasn’t given so I could hunt. It was given so I could protect myself and my community against a tyrannical government. That is why we do not want to give up “assault weapons”. It will not end there. One day the left will ultimately make the arguments to take away all of our guns. Chip away, chip away until they are all gone.

It’s not unreasonable at all to draw a line in the sand here. Today it’s one type of gun. Tomorrow it’s another type of gun until there are none left.

I do not stand with your line of thought because I care about my freedom.

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The nra attack on his children backfired as predicted.

What do you expect from the group that once called ATF agents “jackbooted thugs”?

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Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

January 16th, 2013
4:15 pm
…murder of the unborn child.

“Murder” has a legal definition.

Abortion is a legal procedure so therefore – by definition – it cannot be “murder.”

I understand and respect your feelings about abortion, but you don’t get to make up definitions of words already in existence.

After WWII we tried the Nazis for the murder of the Jews…..at the time killing the Jews was “legal” in Germany. Didn’t make it right then and it isn’t right now.

The taking of innocent life is murder. I don’t care what the law says on this issue. It’s murder. Hide behind the “law” if you want to….it’s still murder.

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Not sure how much if any help the President’s proposals will accomplish. For that matter how much of it will get through Congress.

With that said, the “Obama will take your guns if he could” bs is amusing yet sad at the same time.

But do carry on

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R. W. Extreme — “Since the 1960s, and the introduction of modern liberal thinking, our country has become more violent…and more accepting of violence.”

Just FYI, it was that damned “liberal” thinking that resulted in the Republic you now enjoy.

Head back across the pond and bow down to the Queen if you hate liberal thinking so much.

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@Jay

“You may think that’s true, extreme. It is not. The homicide rate in 2011 was lower than it has been since 1963, and roughly half what it was back in the ’30s, for example.”

Yet, gun ownership is at an all time high and has risen for the last few decades. Thoughts?

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It’s murder.

Republispeak at it’s finest.

And right up there with Christianity is not a religion and the USA is not a democracy.

They just make up their own stupid lingo that the rest of an educated planet laughs off for what it is…

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“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

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@ JamVet

“They just make up their own stupid lingo that the rest of an educated planet laughs off for what it is…”

So many things I could say… better not

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Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm

Then answer this: What do you, a regular ‘ol Joe citizen like me, need an assault weapon for?

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obama is out of control with executive orders and the libs keep drinking the cool aid what a bunch of fools you cant fix stupid and the uninformed that voted for him will get all they deserve

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““Murder” has a legal definition.

Abortion is a legal procedure so therefore – by definition – it cannot be “murder.”

I understand and respect your feelings about abortion, but you don’t get to make up definitions of words already in existence.”

Kamchak – thanks for this, every time!

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“Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is.”
– Thomas “Speedy” Jefferson

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Here is a Republispeak gem I had never seen before today: the GOP has moved LEFT in the past forty years.

Insane with a capital I…

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The President’s commitment to “video games” research seemed a throwaway line to me; I don’t have the numbers but I suspect his $$$ support from the industry matches any NRA money when it comes time to, you know, enact something.

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Aquagirl

Exactly. The inferences that were being made were right out of the “Twilight Zone”

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“I understand and respect your feelings about abortion, but you don’t get to make up definitions of words already in existence.”

You mean like “gay” and “punk”? Here’s your word for the day: etymology.

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…you cant fix stupid.

No doubt. Even the Flip-flopping Massachusetts RINO couldn’t do it!

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Regnad,

We are the militia they spoke of. Read your history.

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
—Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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“According to the FBI stats, why would a regular citizen like you need a handgun for?”

I, being a law-abiding average joe citizen, have ONE in my night stand to protect my wife and dogs if an intruder ever decides to visit.

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Another great “Who is the militia?” quote.

“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

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I, being a law-abiding average joe citizen, have ONE in my night stand to protect my wife and dogs if an intruder ever decides to visit.

Statistically you are LESS safe with it being there.

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ATL Tiger – now answer my question.

Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:28 pm

Paranoid much? Go back to the 1700s…geeze.

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Jay

January 16th, 2013
4:17 pm
“Since the 1960s, and the introduction of modern liberal thinking, our country has become more violent…and more accepting of violence.

You may think that’s true, extreme. It is not. The homicide rate in 2011 was lower than it has been since 1963, and roughly half what it was back in the ’30s, for example.

that being true then why is the prez saying these types of situations are occuring…regarding Sandy Hook?

My point is still valid….we are more accepting of violence in our society.

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Etymology is the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.

Gay, as used to describe homosexuality, is used and recognized around the world.

Abortion is murder is just made up nonsense used by a very claptrap friendly smallish subset of one American political party.

See the difference, professor?

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Question –

(a) How would you know what pedophiles like?

Heh.

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So let me see if I’ve got this straight. Our President comes up with a series of “suggestions,” i.e., Executive Orders, that must still get through a Republican-controlled House of Representatives. And, the point is . . . ?

For those naive few who don’t already realize it, our House of Representatives as well as our Senate is owned lock, stock, and barrel (pardon the pun) by: the NRA, AIPAC, CPAC, the Tea Party, _______________ fill in your own organization, etc.

Do you really think that any significant gun legislation is going to make it through the House of Representatives?

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“I should be able to buy whatever gun I want because, um……ABORTION and SLUTS! AND NO JEEZUS IN SCHOOL!”

Take it from me, you should stop sleeping on park benches and find yourself a home.

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@JamVet

Facts are discomforting when they don’t fit in the narrative you’ve crafted to make you feel important, aren’t they? Anyone trying to tell me the GOP of today is MORE CONSERVATIVE than those 40 years ago calling for segregation of the races and the criminal prosecution of anyone considered “sexually deviant” – a definition that today would qualify one as prude – needs to reread their history books, books not offered in government schools, and stop parroting what they hear on MSNBC.

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Jerome,

You miss the point. Being armed keeps tyranny away. I’m not paranoid. I want the next 225 years to stay free. An armed populace is a linchpin of that.

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Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten..I don’t know who posted the blog “have one in my night stand”, but I am sure like me he would say come on in and see if I’m less safe!

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Not be remotely confused with the WELL REGULATED militia as written into our Bill of Rights, huh meat?

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Have you gun nuts no shame ?

No.

Double Duh!

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You write:
However, assault weapons have a well-documented emotional appeal to those most likely to engage in mass killings such as those at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It is clearly their weapon of choice, perhaps because features that the gun lobby dismisses as mere cosmetic in fact give such weapons a military authority and aura that feed into deadly fantasies. We are under no obligation to continue to pander to such fantasies.
**************************************
I apologize I haven’t had a chance to read your entire article but that paragraph jumped out at me. The mother of the Sandy Hook terrorist was the gun enthusiast. Isn’t it possible that the choice of weapons was merely opportunity or are you saying that the killer actually enjoyed killing more with the assault weapons vs others at his disposal?

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WOW, first we have virtually everyone today playing constitutional scholars…in addition, I haven’t seen more references to Hitler in my history on this forum…

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The cons do not have the guts to call the despicable nra ad out of line.

corporate media are giving them hell over this.

The gop are cowards.

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Conversations overheard at gun show in Dalton this last weekend.
“You voted for Obama and came to a gun show, you are stupid aren’t you”
“School shootings would never happen if Prayer and The 10 Commandents were back in school”
“I’d like for then to try and cone get my guns”
And my favorite “there’s probably black helicopters watching us now”
I should have been selling tin foil hats.

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R. W. Extreme — “Uhhhh…no reading of early American history would find any resemblance to the modern liberal thinking that emerged in the 1960s….”

That’s because “liberal” thought emerged at least a couple centuries before that, pal.

Conservatism during the Revolution meant being a Royalist and supporting the King.

Liberalism during the Revolution meant supporting freedom for the colonies and *overthrowing* the Royal governors.

You’re welcome.

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getalife

January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm

The cons do not have the guts to call the despicable nra ad out of line.

corporate media are giving them hell over this.

The gop are cowards.

That is because there is nothing wrong with the ad and it is factually correct.

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bmdpd: maybe the consistent drop in murders over the past 4 years is due the huge increase in gun ownership since obama took office. Wow… I guess he is doing some good.

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Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten..I don’t know who posted the blog “have one in my night stand”, but I am sure like me he would say come on in and see if I’m less safe!

He is less safe.

Statistically speaking if you have a gun in your house you are far far far more likely to be a victim of gun violence than if you dont.

Your actually safer not having a gun at all.

Thats a fact Jack.

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The USA at the Federal level is not a democracy.

And you sir, are not remotely correct.

BTW what caused this Republican hatred for the D word?

Up until you neocons came to rise, I had NEVER, EVER, EVER seen anyone who was crazy enough to even posit such inanity.

Intelligent people know that this country can be defined in multiple terms, NONE of which are mutually exclusive.

Simply put the United States is a representative democracy, a federal republic, a democratic republic, a constitutional republic.

Do yourself a favor and retake ninth grade Civics.

Thank you.

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Jay,

Romantacize with George Washington then. He said it, not me.

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States

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“Excellent, so why do you have an issue with owning a rifle (’assault rifle’), shotgun, or muzzleloader for the same exact purpose?”

Shotgun or muzzleloader, I have no problem with. It’s the assault rifles with 100 round magazine that I think is overkill and un-called-for.

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Sorry Whatever I do not find your point valid. Paranoid perhaps, but, not valid. And as our blogmaster called is -BS!

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Can anyone tell me why insurance companies don’t offer discounts for gun owners?

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“Do you really think that any significant gun legislation is going to make it through the House of Representatives?”

According to Harry Reid it wouldn’t make it through the Senate, so he’s indicated according to reports that he won’t bring it up for a vote.

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“No, it’s not. That’s just foolishness. Iraq, for example, has a heavily armed populace, but they couldn’t come close to overthrowing Saddam.”

And then there’s, on the other hand, insurgencies like the IRA. By the way, how are we doing in Afghanistan these days – you know, with all of that firepower?

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“Mama Mia, that’s a spicy meatball.”
– George Washington

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There is no debate on this…if someone is breaking into your home, you are much safer with a gun than without.

That is a fantastic argument from the point of a man whose main concern is being unmanned by an intruder despoiling his property. The rest of us would like to avoid dying, so please take your point to the Scared Menz Support Group and share. The rest of us aren’t buying.

Sorry to tell you this bub, the entire world no longer revolves around your point of view and what’s important to make you FEEL better, despite the effects in the real world. Thus all the screaming about abortion and Judeo–Christian persecution and whatnot.

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There is no debate on this…if someone is breaking into your home, you are much safer with a gun than without.

Dead 100 percent incorrect

If you dont have a gun you are more likely to survive.

If you do and you happen to get to it half asleep. Well its wild west time and odds are your gonna be on the bad end of that.

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Doggone/GA

January 16th, 2013
4:51 pm
“The USA at the Federal level is not a democracy….we are a Constitutional Republic”

Wrong…it’s ALWAYS wrong. We are a Constitutional DEMOCRATIC Repulic. As opposed to , for instance, a Communist Republic.

The United States of America (USA), commonly called the United States (US or U.S.) and America, is a federal constitutional republic consisting of fifty states and a federal district.

Now I see the problem….we don’t even know what kind of government we have.

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“Shotgun or muzzleloader, I have no problem with. It’s the assault rifles with 100 round magazine that I think is overkill and un-called-for.”

Okay, but the fact of the matter is that the handguns with rounds of 5-17 (depending on the handgun) are the firearms responible for 50% of all murders while rifles account for 2.6%

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“Other parts of the agenda have a better chance of passage; we’ll have to see.”

Jay, beyond banning what’s inaccurately referred to as assault weapons and high capacity magazines what are the other parts of the agenda?

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Stevie Ray – A Discount Double Pump? Discount Double Click?

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I think this new age, insane discounting of our democracy strikes right at the very dark heart of the Republican disease – government of the people, by the people and for the people.

They have no use for that anymore. Wall Street and not Washington is the new epicenter of American sovereignty.

After all, the government is the problem! As advocated by that addled old fool, Ronald Reagan.

And Uncle Sam must be drowned in a bathtub.

The criminals in the “free market” (LOL!) simply cannot have him looking over their shoulders and making them adhere to the old fashioned laws of the land.

And the anti-American bent of the counterfeit conservative has merely escalated over the past three decades to the point where they are no longer even ashamed of writing this country off.

Just ask old Andy Sinkwich…

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Can anyone tell me why insurance companies don’t offer discounts for gun owners?

Good question.

I mean if guns make you soooo much safer.

Why dont they ?

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Jay

January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm

td, as a practical matter you’re probably right, at least about the assault weapon ban, but sometimes it’s important to try even knowing that you’ll fail … THIS time. Change doesn’t happen overnight.

Other parts of the agenda have a better chance of passage; we’ll have to see.

And the NRA and house republicans will make sure they are all tied together in one bill and go the Senate first to get those red state Senators on the record. I seriously doubt if Reid will even bring up a bill with any gun bans attached because he does not want to lose control of the Senate.

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cons spewing hypocrisy is hilarious

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Jay

January 16th, 2013
4:51 pm
Romantacize with George Washington then. He said it, not me.”

No, he did not say it. You did.

Washington would never say anything that ludicrous. Look it up. You’re using a bogus quote to defend a bogus position.

Jay….can you prove his statement is wrong?

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. . . we are a corporate-controlled fascist country with war as its major industry.

Probably closest to the truth.

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JHP….

Stupid was the price he was asking for a USED rifle. I went to a local store and purchased a very nice NEW bolt action rifle for much less.

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rightwingextreme

Thousands of women have spontaneous abortions(miscarrages) every week.

Who is responsible for these “murders”?

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So Jay, Reagan saying something over and over again makes it true? If that’s the case when can we expect everyone to start paying their fair share?

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td,

The AR ban will never reach a vote in the Senate unless they change the filibuster rule.

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Definition of DEMOCRACY
1
a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

rightwingextreme, your inability to admit that this country is the very bastion of democracy is terribly sad.

Good luck in your parallel reality, though!

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“See the difference, professor?”

I am sorry, but I don’t. You apparently missed the point of my post (that people have changed the meaning of words throughout history and sometimes even “hijack” – if a lexicographer such as myself may use some poetic license, he he – words for their own purposes, like homosexuals did with the word “gay”) and so your response is a non sequitur.

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“You want to know what comes between me and my Calvins? Nothing.”
– George Washington

….can you prove his statement is wrong?

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JAY

I came across this line from an article from gun guy but it is thought provoking…

It may be satisfying to “do something.” But two things ought to be kept in mind. First, liberty is never more in peril than when politicians sense that the people want them to do something — anything. Second, a false sense of security is worse than no security at all. Legislating in the heat of emotion will not prevent future attacks, but it will do irreparable harm to innocent people.

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“There’s such a furor over Obama’s proposal.”

You mean there’s such a Führer over Obama’s proposal, don’t you?

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R. W. Extreme — “Jay….can you prove his statement is wrong?”

One does not prove a negative. Burden of proof rests on the original poster to prove the veracity of his claim.

If he’s speaking the truth, he should have no problem finding a link that substantiates his claim and then posting it here.

And with that, I’m out. All be well and drive safely.

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We are a representative democracy. You probably don’t want to see the results if we put everything up for a simple majority vote in the state of Georgia or in the city of Atlanta for that matter. It wouldn’t necessarily be all that edifying.

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cons don’t care about the kids being slaughtered at school, they are still fixated on “getting our President”.

Keep marginalizing these kooks and move forward.

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getalife

January 16th, 2013
5:03 pm

td,

The AR ban will never reach a vote in the Senate unless they change the filibuster rule.

I would bet you $1000 that the Republicans will NOT filibuster a bill that has an assault weapons ban in it. They want these Red state Dems on the record and they know they can kill the bill in the house.

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Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 16th, 2013
4:59 pm

Glad you asked. Primarily because geeks like me who price insurance deals have no credible data to show any impact on deflecting intruders. We have huge volumes of data about residential perimeter lighting and security systems that are actually active and connected. The other challenge of underwriting guns in homes is that accidental discharge exposure data may indicate more of a liability issue…

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Nice umlaut drop!

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Jerome

About Mr. Potato Head — have you seen pictures of his two brothers John and Graham?

That family fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

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I say,dump millions of guns and plenty of ammo in the hoods and let them go at it.

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Said it before and will say it again. As long as there are lowlifes willing to bust into families’ homes ARMED 2, 3, 4 at a time to terrorize, rob, and do who knows what else, I will have a need for my AR-15. Solve THAT problem and you prevent otherwise reserved people from going out and purchasing them. Won’t happen though. Everyone is too chicken—- to deal with the real issues.

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If you don’t believe that we live in a corporate-controlled fascist society, consider this: each and every one of our Representatives and Senators lives in mortal fear that they will be singled out by the NRA, (but a single corporate entity) which is wholly-owned by the firearms industry.

If they favor ANY legislation that, in any way, limits the number of firearms sold in the United States, then they’re history. Can you hear me, now?

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@JamVet

Man, you are failing social studies so badly today. We are 100% not a democracy. See: Bush v Gore/the existence of our electoral college. Majority rule? Nah.

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“Jay….can you prove his statement is wrong?”

I see we have a growing population of cons who want others to hold their hands and help them across the street.

Gah, people, Google can provide accurate information if you’re careful and don’t believe the first thing you hear or read.

Wait… I think I see the problem….

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After all is said and done, you cons have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Big Business has an absolute iron grip on your Republican politicians and will NEVER turn it loose. They will keep funding the election and re-election campaigns for Repubicans in return for a continuation of generous profits. Republicans will, therefore, always protect the manufacture and sale of as many guns as Business can turn out.

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td,

It is doa so your fantasy on getting Senate seats on the slaughter of American children is a loser but shows what you really care about..

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oldguy

January 16th, 2013
5:06 pm

Just a thought,
Now that the great state of new york ( that is with small letters) has seen fit to ban all firearm magazines over 7 rounds are all of the police, deputies and constables in the state required to turn in their handguns that use these magazines? Why not? Are their weapons not as dangerous as any in private hands? (I know of no police dept that uses weapons with capacities that low).
A few months ago the NYPD opened fire on a shooter at the Empire State building and THEY wounded 8 innocent bystanders! (the original shooter shot no bystanders).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Holy crap on a stick. Right AFTER the Rush show finishes, we get multiple morons posting this same inane crap. Yet NONE of them listen to Rush…………..

Holy crap. The stupid, it BURNS. Just damn, how stupid IS that “argument.’ How can any self respecting person repeat such an utterly stupid…….. I’m searching for a word, it’s so stupid it can’t be called a thought, or an argument and for damn sure not a line of reasoning………… what DO you call something so utterly void of intelligence?

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” The Problem With Quotes From The Internet Is It Is Hard To Verify Their Authenticity ”

– Abraham Lincoln.

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I wonder if Jay got got this “heads up”:

The subject line of the pool report reads, “Par-TEE!”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-goes-geithners-good-bye-party_696155.html

Kind of like a Drudge headline in reverse. LOL. Perhaps THP will use it as their headline unedited.

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JamVet

“Democracy: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.”

So what you’re saying is, these cons who think they need all kinds of guns to defend themselves against the federal government and fight them because they could become tyrannical are really fighting against themselves because they don’t trust themselves?

Y’know, JamVet, they may be saner than I thought.

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“Gah, people, Google can provide accurate information if you’re careful and don’t believe the first thing you hear or read. Wait… I think I see the problem….”

That’s very good, Paul. Now did you take your pills for your ADHD?

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Jerome

Don’t know about hair plugs, but there is no question that they all came from the same parents.

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“Hannity sets him on a pedestal, but that doesn’t mean you can logically generalize his sentiments to all conservatives.”

Governor Rick Scott of Florida loves the Reagan myth. Scott loved the liberal Ronald Reagan so much he named the rescue dog he got as a campaign prop ‘Reagan’.

Scott didn’t love Reagan the dog as much as he liked Reagan the liberal President, the poor dog hasn’t been seen since Scott won the election.

Btw mentions of liberal Reagan during the Republican convention, 512. Mentions of George W Bush, 3.

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I read Obama’s executive action where all with the exception of nominating an ATF head came from the NRA. The proposal to Congress was to ban so called assault rifles and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. Don’t know how Jay can call this “wide-ranging and ambitious” as Obama promised. Sounds to me like Biden approached this with only one thought in mind and that’s banning guns and high capacity magazines. Knowing that Obama did not have executive powers to accomplish the ban himself he and Obama took mostly the proposals from the NRA and incorporated them into Obama’s executive action. These are actions that the administration could have ordered long ago and have not until now. Hopefully, Obama’s feet will be held to the fire in measuring how well these executive actions will be carried out. I suspect that they won’t be carried out particularly well and all we’ll see is Obama shaking his fist at the Republicans in Congress accusing them of obstructing his gun control proposal. Good politics but extremely poor governance.

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Nurse Ratched

“That’s very good, Paul. Now did you take your pills for your ADHD?”

Uhhh…. nooo….

Obamacare hasn’t kicked in yet. So no free meds.

And I’m still waiting for my Obamaphone and all the other free stuff he promised me.

But I’m a patient kinda guy.

Can we get on with the eval now?

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“The problem with engaging anyone on the internet – especially in the blogosphere – is that when you approach them with facts that are inconvenient to their reality, they simply drift back into whatever online fantasy world they are living in until the facts you presented have taken a back seat to their latest super awesome virtual achievement or snarky retort, thus rendering your attempt at honest debate a complete exercise in futility.”

- Meet In the Middle

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There were no assault weapons used at Sandy Hook. He left the AR 15 in the car and used 4 handguns.

Already debunked by the coroner.

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Nurse Ratched

January 16th, 2013
5:27 pm

“Y’know, JamVet, they may be saner than I thought.”
“Y’know, JamVet, they may be saner than I thought.”

You are repeating yourself, Paul. That’s not a good sign.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Boy howdy look at that. You’ve got your own personal stalker Paul. You’ve moved up in status apparently. You are ALMOST big time now. If he (she? I doubt it) starts stalking your mom you’ll know you have it made…….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WuQ0HlwlqE

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td,

You should be worried about losing more seats in the house and senate because that is what is going to happen.

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@JamVet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_republic

It doesn’t have pictures, but you should be able to get through it.

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I have to go anyway. Good night all!

Are you taking your other sock-puppets with you?

Or will you now introduce a new one in 3…2…1….?

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to getalife
January 16th, 2013
4:14 pm
it is time to get rid of the ethnicity/country of origin adjectives and just be american … or if the adjective is that important .. then go back to the place of that origin … it really gets tiresome hearing this person is the first of this and the first of that … pointing to it so much is just divisive. as for your intelligence testing, i’m on board with that, but i bet many more libs would not pass… see the youtube of the obamaphone lady
i could care less about BHO’s heritage,… but i do care about his ideology and actions .. which in my opinion makes it a toss up between Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama as the worst president in the history of US, so i hope we don’t see anyone with his ideas in office again

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Personally, I thought he let the movie industry off too easy. I guess he did it because he is enthralled with their celebrity and especially their un-ending campaign money. Hollywood thrives and make millions on images of gun produced blood and gore and it continuously glamourizes the act. Some of Hollywoods biggest and most liberal actors and directors on the one hand claim to be anti-violence/anti-gun yet they make films filled with guns and killing. It is ironic that Obama is willing to use the 1st amendment to protect the violence peddlers in Hollywood but yet he and liberal America seem to want to step on the second amendment when it comes to gun ownership. I would be very interested to know how many of the Hollywood people actually own guns themselves. We would all be very surprised.

Otherwise, I didn’t see much in what Obama said that is all that bad. I don’t think the clip capacity and the assault weapon band will do much to deter the criminals and the insane though and I don’t think it will pass since it is based upon the cosmetics of the weapon, not upon how much damage it will do. A 30-06 rifle with a three round clip, a typical hunting gun in the hands of the right (or wrong) person can do tremendous amounts of damage. Then again, so can a base ball bat or tire iron or a gallon of the right pesticide.

I own guns and owning a weapon probably saved me and my wife a couple of years back from an intrusion by a couple of people with some really bad intent. Thankfully, I didn’t have to shoot them. I verbally warned them that they were about to die and even then they didn’t quit until they actually saw the weapon I held in my hand (a shotgun). A very bad shotgun which looked very menacing. If I hadn’t owned a weapon there is no way that I or my wife could have physically overcome the two men trying to break into my house as they were much bigger and much younger than ourselves. Though we called the police immediately when the incident started it was a full 25 minutes before they showed up. So, for all of you who want weapons banned, I hope that you never have to experience what we did and not be prepared for it. America today is filled to the brim with violent people who have no regard for human life whatsoever. Our problem now is not the machines of destruction, it is the American psyche.

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JamVet,

Do you understand the difference between a democracy and a republic. We’re a combination of both with the constitution as the basis for our laws. The founders had the foresight to design our government in such a way that the minority wouldn’t be completely overruled and discriminated against by a majority, which is why we have a representative republic. Quite a work of genius in my opinion and that of many others.

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Whether an armed guard would have prevented Sandy Hook or not we will never know, but which whack wing sites and talk shows are still feeding the rifle wasn’t used LIE? WORLD NET DAILY?

“The veteran medical examiner told reporters that the victims had all been identified and their bodies released. In what appeared to be an uncomfortable moment for Carver, he said all of the victims he had examined had all been shot by a Bushmaster .223 caliber assault rifle, one of at least two weapons Adam Lanza, the 20-year-old suspected shooter, used to commit one of the deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history.”

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/medical-examiner-sandy-hook-victims-died-multiple-gunshot-211722237.html

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There were no assault weapons used at Sandy Hook. He left the AR 15 in the car and used 4 handguns.

Already debunked by the coroner.

Debunked enough that it’s amazing that the story can continuously rebunk itself. Given the people who continue to push that stuff though….

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Towncrier and others. A few interesting facts.

Obama is left handed.

Only about 10 percent of the population is left-handed. About 20 percent of people with schizophrenia dominantly use their left hands.

People who use their left hands tend to be more affected by fear than people who use their right hands, according to recent research presented at the annual conference of the British Psychology Society.

For the study, participants watched an eight-minute clip from the frightening film Silence of the Lambs. When asked to recall events from the segment, lefties were far more likely to show signs of post-traumatic stress disorder than righties, including giving fragmented descriptions and making more mistakes.

If you just can’t get let go of that spat you had with your right-handed pal (but he seemed to move on just fine), you may be able to blame it on your handedness: According to a small study published in The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease , lefties are more prone to having negative emotions. In addition, they seem to have a more difficult time processing their feelings.

Obama. A leftie, angry fearful schizo. Sounds about right to me.

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The administration also proposes to get serious about gun trafficking, in which legal gun purchasers buy large numbers of weapons for later private sale to criminals.

as in “Fast and Furious”?

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Fred 5:34

Yeah, but she’s good-natured.

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Jm: get some help, OK? It’ll do you good.

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” I can’t even be satirical here any more,”

Gross.

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We’re a combination of both…

Hallelujah!

A Republican who gets it!!

I was beginning to wonder if there were any of you right wingers still around who hadn’t excised the D word from your lexicon!

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Jm

And the ambidextrous? -)

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FOXBOT/talk radio is based on lies and the gullibility and stupidity of their listeners.

Maybe I need to start one of those talk station things and sell advertising. I know it’s wrong to play with the minds of those too lazy to think for themselves, but it would probably be kinda fun throwing a bit of spice and color into these tired ass conspiracy theories. I can damn near recite them all and I don’t listen to that crap. All you have to do is read the lickspittle here.

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Liberals lost this round.

Probably true.

The Do Nothing Ever Party knows that the answers are much, much too difficult to even try.

So they do what they do best – nothing.

And in this case, I think it served them well…

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Bro,

They make millions and beck is starting a cult.

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I’m pretty sure that the “decent” (LOL!) Reagan administration is still the all time leader in criminal arrests, prosecutions and convictions in his administration…

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getalife

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josef

they’re all crazy? just kidding. multi-talented?

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tom,

reagan was a lib.

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pogo

January 16th, 2013
5:40 pm

Personally, I thought he let the movie industry off too easy. I guess he did it because he is enthralled with their celebrity and especially their un-ending campaign money……… blah blah……

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Come on now REALLY? That’s what they were saying on Megyn Kelly’s show right after his speech and you are just NOW hearing about it? Oh wait, I know, it’s you own original thought. That ass clown on Megyn (who taught HER mindless parents how to spell Megan?) who was saying that at around 1:45 had just gotten off the phone with YOU so he would know what to say……….

yawn.

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“Now I see the problem….we don’t even know what kind of government we have”

Nope. Only YOU don’t know. I know perfectly well. We are a democratic republic. I refer you to the dictionary to educate yourself.

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I m pretty sure rush is a lib too because he says something so crazy at election time, he helps the Dems get votes.

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jm,

I don’t believe in mindless con deflecterbation.

I don’t think you should do that in public.

Ew.

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I should be able to buy whatever gun I want because, um……ABORTION and SLUTS! AND NO JEEZUS IN SCHOOL!

Well, if it’s true we keep coming back here in another form after we die, I want to come back as a snake. And first I want to be a intern to Aquagirl before I die. Cause the way she cuts a man down, I can have a few months of practice wriggling along the ground and won’t need to learn how to crawl in my new life.

Have a good night everybody.

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btw getalife

I hope they do real background checks

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Paul

January 16th, 2013
3:56 pm
DannyX

The president calls for a //study// to see if there is a //possible link//.

You guys ridicule him for taking knee-jerk actions that won’t have any impact, yet when he calls for a //study// to determine if there’s a link, you ridicule him, too.

Obama Derangement Syndrome is in full bloom.
__________________________________
Paul, DannyX is on your side.

And doing his level best to ensure there is NO civil, rational, or PRODUCTIVE discussion of the President’s proposal.

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“Do you understand the difference between a democracy and a republic.”

Do YOU understand the difference between a representative democracy and a democratic republic? (Here’s a hint: THERE ISN’T ANY DIFFERENCE)

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“I hope they do real background checks”

They probably will so the goal to save one child from getting slaughtered at school is the best we can get out of failed congress.

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JamVet

January 16th, 2013
5:53 pm

I’m pretty sure that the “decent” (LOL!) Reagan administration is still the all time leader in criminal arrests, prosecutions and convictions in his administration…
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One decent man against Leviathon.
Ronny could only do so much while in the District of Crooks.
The American people know(and remember) decency though…………and they also recognize pure corrupt sleazeoid Washington trash.
That’s why even Chicago Sludge administrations like to evoke his spirit.
It isn’t working.
.
Uncle Sam boot-lickers wouldn’t understand.

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td

Which post did getalife say the Dems were going to win back the House?

See you love ole Nate these days. Guess after fawning all over Morris, Rove and those articles you posted on oversampling it was time to change ships.

Oh the irony

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“The administration would have sufficient revenues to service the national debt and pay all of the above. The government just would not have an extension of a maxed out credit line and would therefore need to curtail additional borrowing and deficit spending.”

Y’know, Recon, every time something like this comes on someone pops up and says “there’s enough money for that.” Every time. If there’s enough money to pay this and that and everything else that comes up, then why do we need a debt limit increase?

Other point that was asked but no con would answer: why are Congressional Republicans so eager to give a Democratic President the power to decide what gets paid and what doesn’t?

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“Among other things, it includes a proposal to put as many as 1,000 federally funded, armed police officers in schools;”

Get the Feds out of the education, police, and fire business! These are state and local issues.

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I sure wish I was one of them paid AJC blog confederates what gitz to blog all day and make trouble for folks.

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“Guess after fawning all over Morris, Rove and those articles you posted on oversampling it was time to change ships.”

Ouch. td is focused on trying to win the next election like his party.

Boeing just got their 787 grounded by the FAA.

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Romney/Obama voters=tools——tools to facilitate your financial rape—————-
.
“I think what the gun debate exposes is that a modern fascist authoritarian state like the US has to tread lightly- they can’t just go about rounding up and mass murdering people like the Nazis did- at least not out in the open and certainly not domestically. Overseas is another situation altogether; in foreign countries they murder with impunity. So rather than openly use brute force and confiscate the guns, rather than expose their true nature to their own population, they use the power of propaganda to the fullest. They maintain heavy influence on the largest media outlets; TV in particular and they’re hard at work to gain control of the internet. The ruling power elite have had lots of practice at these tactics of persuasion and have remarkably refined their techniques; they’ve become quite adept at manufacturing consent.

My own take away on this is that the pervasiveness of media manipulation of public opinion in the US is so successful that Americans by and large do not even realize that what they perceive to be their own personal thoughts and opinions are in fact not their own. The average American’s opinions, and beliefs are instead created for them through a suffocating saturation of mass media. Their thoughts sprout in their psyche after having been planted there by a powerful propaganda establishment. This manipulation begins at childhood and continues throughout a person’s entire life and its very difficult if not impossible to escape its influence. Especially when the subject is so emotionally charged as the current gun control debate.

It’s an ingenious and highly effective way to control people. Americans by nature tend to be very stubborn about their personal opinions but what if this supposed natural tendency was actually artificially induced? Have you ever really thought about the term “American Exceptionalism”? We’re taught that it’s our individualism that makes us special, that we must hold tight and never waver from our beliefs. Well, what if that same “individualism” was not ours to begin with? What if what we think of as our personal beliefs and tightly held opinions actually came to us through constant psychological conditioning? What if everything we think we know was fed to us through an all encompassing media barrage?

These days this barrage is in full assault mode. It’s so rapid-fire that people aren’t given a moment’s time to think before the next “crises” presents itself. There truly is a struggle going on to maintain this control and the ever increasing momentum of the propaganda barrage is the clearest evidence we have. The gun debate is simply a tool used to leverage opinion and divide the public. Americans are under constant psychological attack and notice how we’re never allowed to hardly even take a breath? The public is now left permanently back on their heels, they’re not allowed a moments contemplation or reflection on these events. It’s pow pow pow! 24-7!
Tracy Schumer

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Georgia,

Soros pays better.

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“It’s pow pow pow! 24-7!”

This debate was not on his agenda con.

Stop reading that crap.

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Jam

Reagan sure did have a lot of suspicious activity going on in his administration. Guess all those investigations, indictments, convictions as well as the pardons to keep others from being indicted were just “theater”…….

Liberal witch hunts I say

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“How do we pay for the army there you brainiac?”

The gop want to welch on paying our troops.

They claim to support them.

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“And doing his level best to ensure there is NO civil, rational, or PRODUCTIVE discussion of the President’s proposal.”

Wow, Blog Over Reaction Syndrome is in full bloom.

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Midori

January 16th, 2013
3:33 pm

as a Army vet and someone who has personally trained on the M-16, I know first hand the damage that and other weapons like it can do.

It has absolutely NO PLACE in civilian society.

Those weapons are made for one purpose and one purpose only: to kill. To kill as many as possible in as little time as possible.

” And a Glock with a 17 round clip doesn’t? Sometimes the intelligence on here scares the hell out of me.

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We are not a republic, we are a reich, a corporate reich.

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“Wow. Really? So you are against federal dollars? How do we pay for the army there you brainiac?”

Freddie thinks the defense of our country is a state & local issue.

Freddie needs to read the constitution.

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JamVet

January 16th, 2013
6:15 pm

Ronny could only do so much while in the District of Crooks.

True, He was so busy covering up for Scumbag Ollie, he couldn’t possible protect all of his other lawbreakers. Even the criminal Eddie Meese had his hands full trying not to go to prison, himself…

Perhaps you were just a tyke back then, but even so you should crack a book now and then before writing sophist garbage about the “decent” Reagan.

Reagan was lying, bigoted old dipstick who got countless innocent men, women and children around the world killed.

The only guy who could make Nixon look clean in comparison…
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Ronnie was above that crap………and kept it behind him. He had his lackeys to take care of unpleasent business.
In short…..he was a true statesman.
Unlike Obama……….who makes it a point to pick out brown children to drone every Tuesday. (I think it’s tuesdays when he picks his kill list).
As per Paul……………………..”those little children just shouldn’t be hanging around terrists.”
Sick.
.
Boottlickers.
.

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The other half of your brain.

January 16th, 2013
6:25 pm

I own a semi auto 30.06 with several clips (more then 50 round capacity all together). Is the AR-15 more or less lethal then the 30.06? Why is it that the Semi auto 30.06 or Semi auto 300 mag not on the list as assault weapons?

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When our government responds to the majority of the American people and acts is different from the usual doing what the donors paid them to do so the definition depends on what government does.

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I was once one of the dumb asses who thought I was being clever and making a point when I tried to argue that we were a Republic not a “Democracy.” It embarrasses me to remember those days.

Wow, you could get rich selling your self-awareness to the programmed babbling folk. Oh, wait, they wouldn’t buy. Never mind.

There’s a basic lack of perception in people who trot this crap out. Like someone is going to say “oh, you mean we don’t vote individually on every single law? My goodness, thank you for informing me of that fact!” But then again these are usually the same folk who argue against gay marriage because the majority viewpoint should rule, so they don’t mind looking like flip-flopping drones.

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In short…..he was a true statesman.

Yep, he kept us safe from those marauding Grenadians.

You really are one of those fell off of the turnip truck thirty somethings aren’t you?

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“Boeing just got their 787 grounded by the FAA.”

Japan Airlines grounded theirs earlier.

Hey Sinkwich!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didja hear? Boeing made a bunch of multimillion-dollar planes with these new batteries and they keep catching on fire! You keep up with the news, don’tcha? Remember how you got all over GM’s battery and fire problems? How come you’re silent about Boeing? And let’s not offer up “cause GM is Government Motors and gets all those $$$”, okay? You do realize without government support Boeing would be… in not very good shape, let’s just say.

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tom,

“Did someone mention the liberal anti-Christ Ronald Reagan?

Supporter of strong gun control
Gave amnesty to millions of Mexicans
Strengthened the hated Earned Income Credit
Tripled the deficit
Raised taxes
Expanded Medicare
Claimed we are a democracy
Product of Hollywood” DannyX

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josef – And the ambidextrous? -)

they spend way too much time in the shower

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Let us not forget, he cut and ran from Beirut.

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Conversations overheard at gun show in Dalton this last weekend.

That’s nothing compared to what I heard when I was standing in line behind the welfare queens at Whole Foods.

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td

January 16th, 2013
6:29 pm

The other half of your brain.

January 16th, 2013
6:25 pm

I own a semi auto 30.06 with several clips (more then 50 round capacity all together). Is the AR-15 more or less lethal then the 30.06? Why is it that the Semi auto 30.06 or Semi auto 300 mag not on the list as assault weapons?

My point exactly, a Glock can kill just as easily as a hunting rifle. All these killings have been done at close range, a handgun could have been just as deadly.
I haven’t read any stories about assult rifles being used at long distances.

Obama wants 10 round clips, even if it’s 5 rounds, the nuts will just carry more clips. For anyone who never shot a rifle or handgun, it only takes about 3 seconds to change a clip.

I don’t own a rifle or handgun, they aren’t the problem. the nuts are.

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“Providing money to local municipalities to hire security for schools falls under that.”

Sez you.

Education is a state & local responsibility. If Abdul and his army of Jihadists storm the beaches of New Jersey, the feds have responsibility to kill every last one of them.

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getalife

January 16th, 2013
6:35 pm

tom,

“Did someone mention the liberal anti-Christ Ronald Reagan?

Supporter of strong gun control
Gave amnesty to millions of Mexicans
Strengthened the hated Earned Income Credit
Tripled the deficit
Raised taxes
Expanded Medicare
Claimed we are a democracy
Product of Hollywood” DannyX

WOW!, For a second there I thought you were talking about Obama.

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I own a semi auto 30.06 with several clips (more then 50 round capacity all together). Is the AR-15 more or less lethal then the 30.06? Why is it that the Semi auto 30.06 or Semi auto 300 mag not on the list as assault weapons?

One thing at a time, grasshopper. They are next.

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Stating that the US is a combination of a Democracy and a Republic is what intelligent people have done for two hundred plus years. Going back to Madison in the Federalist Papers.

They don’t play childish and embarrassing word games and aver nonsensical claptrap that the United States of America is NOT a democracy.

I think you’ve watched too much Sean Hannity…

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Obama wants 10 round clips, even if it’s 5 rounds, the nuts will just carry more clips. For anyone who never shot a rifle or handgun, it only takes about 3 seconds to change a clip.

43 minutes. The time elapsed between the first 911 call reporting a shooting inside the Newtown CT school and the first law enforcement officer entering the building. Magazine (not clip) capacity was not a factor.

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Gov. Rick Perry released the following statement regarding President Obama’s executive actions:

“The Vice President’s committee was appointed in response to the tragedy at Newtown, but very few of his recommendations have anything to do with what happened there.

“Guns require a finger to pull the trigger. The sad young man who did that in Newtown was clearly haunted by demons and no gun law could have saved the children in Sandy Hook Elementary from his terror.

“There is evil prowling in the world – it shows up in our movies, video games and online fascinations, and finds its way into vulnerable hearts and minds. As a free people, let us choose what kind of people we will be. Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. Let us all return to our places of worship and pray for help. Above all, let us pray for our children.

“In fact, the piling on by the political left, and their cohorts in the media, to use the massacre of little children to advance a pre-existing political agenda that would not have saved those children, disgusts me, personally. The second amendment to the Constitution is a basic right of free people and cannot be nor will it be abridged by the executive power of this or any other president.”

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And having children at your speech isn’t?

Again — George Bush reading The Pet Goat says, “What?”

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Paul @ 1833…eoi much?

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getalife

It looks like the Americans, the French, and the Israelis are working on the same page…an intriguing coalition…

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Yet, gun ownership has, indeed, increased dramatically per capita.

bizarre reading of the data. Bottom line is Jay’s correct; a smaller percentage of households have guns, which makes sense, because far more people live in urban settings where they’re not likely to be needed hunting game (well, not legally, anyway.)

And the polling info is about what I had expected–around 40% with some kind of gun, but only about 20% with a handgun.

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josef,

I was surprised to see France put troops on the ground there but there are resources to be had.

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oh, didn’t mean you, josef. Nor you, getalife. (Well, not so much.)

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“65 is the limit. Yes?”

Not where I live. The max out here on the Interstate is 70 mph

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Thanx for Washington’s wisdom

January 16th, 2013
6:51 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLBAnWGzZAc

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Dragging the President’s kids into an argument about kids being slaughtered is a new low.

There is no bar on how low the right will go.

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@JamVet

The only things embarrassing here are your inability to engage in honest debate without resorting to childish demagoguery, and your inability to see that there are those of us out there who disagree with your groupthink and regurgitated talking points and have yet to see nor hear a single minute of Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.

One of the biggest problems with our political system is that people like you think the difference between a Democracy and a Republic amounts to nothing more than “word games.”

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Thanx for Washington’s wisdom
January 16th, 2013
6:51 pm

Why do cars go faster than 65mph?

65 is the limit. Yes?

We should ban any car that goes faster for safety of the children… OK?

Regular Coca-Cola contains too much sugar … We should ban it too.

McDonalds sells food that everybody knows is fattening … Ban McDonalds !

Pot smoking is makes people incapable of driving or operating machinery safely … Make it illegal !

Skydiving is dangerous … Ban it !

Riding a motorcycle is risky … Ban it !

BARF !!!!!!!
++++
And guns seems to bring out the paranoid.

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cat,

The proper response would be to excuse himself, get on Air Force 1 to make decisions after a attack.

He froze like a deer in the headlights. He was disaster. Move on.

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“That company is absolutely infested with overpaid, incompetent, lazy, stupid, mooching union thugs!”

We all have crosses to bear, Jammie. Boeing succeeds in spite of such a handicap. It’s amazing actually. Kinda like seeing a quadraplegic living a fulfilling life.

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what the heck, figure some here might be interested:

http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery

(Kind of obvious stuff, but probably news to some.)

So Madison, who had (at Jefferson’s insistence) already begun to prepare proposed amendments to the Constitution, changed his first draft of one that addressed the militia issue to make sure it was unambiguous that the southern states could maintain their slave patrol militias.

Little did Madison realize that one day in the future weapons-manufacturing corporations, newly defined as “persons” by a Supreme Court some have called dysfunctional, would use his slave patrol militia amendment to protect their “right” to manufacture and sell assault weapons used to murder schoolchildren.

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“Its Not Fascism When We do It”: U.S. Government Claims that Truth Is Too Complicated and Dangerous to Disclose to the Public

All of this happened in Germany – as in America today – because the governments whipped up so much fear of attack by demonizing the enemy and declaring an open-ended war that people became complacent and stopped thinking for themselves.

History really does repeat itself.

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Wonder why Boeing is still the world leader in passenger planes?

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godless: 43 minutes. The time elapsed between the first 911 call reporting a shooting inside the Newtown CT school and the first law enforcement officer entering the building.

Not to pick on you, but to the point about time, what do you think the reaction time would be in Dekalb County Georgia where gun violence is a daily occurrence vs Newtown Connecticut? Small town departments are not trained or even used to gross violence on a scale as massive as that. A larger city that has a trained SRT/SWAT group ready to respond will likely have a different and much shorter response time. Sure the response time matters, but I wouldn’t get hung up on it.

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Meat, for the second time, stop the charade.

You got crushed because your proclamations are stupid.

And you still cannot even acknowledge what most eight graders know – we live in a representative democracy.

Don’t hate the word, embrace it and join in with two centuries of patriots!

Democracy is the government of the people, by the people, for the people. ~Abraham Lincoln

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Pretty accurate take on that disgusting NRA advert:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/16/the-nra-plays-the-uppity-card-against-obama/

This ad isn’t making the case for guns—if anything, drawing attention to the ever-present danger that the President lives under of being shot is an argument for more gun control—but it’s just feeding off the not even subtly racist obsession right wingers have with telling each other that it’s obscene that the President and his family get to live the same lifestyle as all the white Presidents and their families.

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Jackie

I dunno…ask our sister city Toulouse ’bout that little enterprise hq’d therebouts…

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getalife

One of my many fans.

I think there is an election coming up for president of the Kamchak Fan Club.

They meet at the Big Chicken in Marietta.

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Big Chicken in Marietta.

The Landmark of stalkers.

Fitting.

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Ruh, roh.

Jay got out the giant economy sized can of Bon Ami again.

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Listening to rogers the head of the intell committee making excuses for our intell missing the second terrorist attack in Africa.

At least he is saying no boots on the ground but they are boxed in with the cutting thingie.

Of course, there will be no hearings on why intell missed two attacks but that is gop politics for ya.

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josef

I’ll have to look those up, but if I remember correctly there were officers in the mall area in Portland. The Aurora response was fast enough that the shooter was initially thought to be part of the responding force until authorities got a good look at his gear, which lacked official identification markings.

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Bro

You get a chance check out the 3 part “Abolitionists” series on GPB. I have watched two of them.

Pretty good stuff.

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@kayaker

I think President Obama is trying to eliminate assault rifles and high-capacity magazine clips to start.
He has said repeatedly, there is nothing anyone can do to prevent violence of any type.

Keep your shotgun to protect yourself and your family and friends.

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Kayaker:

1. nobody is interested in grabbing your shotgun

2. you fibbed about the AR 15 not being used to murder children in Newtown, earlier. You going to own up to it?

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@josef

I agree with your numbers and the competition that has manifested itself between the two companies.
The only caveat I would offer is, AirBus is a government controlled monopoly while Boeing is not.

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I have a 12 ga grass cutter that does unbelievable things to a human body when loaded with double OO buck shot.

Gun porn fantasy much? Can you please do that in private? It’s icky and we’re embarrassed for you.

Like I’ve said before, it’s not about protecting yourself or your family, it’s about you stroking your gun while imagining blasting some “animal” into pieces.

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Even the liberal media including your favorite mouthpiece, Matt Lauer, has stated that there were no assault weapons used in the Sandy Hook incident.

The coroner stated that he was pulling bullets out of bodies from the long gun within a day of the shooting.

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