Obama’s gun-safety agenda a great place to start debate
The list of legislative proposals and executive actions outlined by President Obama is, as he promised, wide-ranging and ambitious.
Among other things, it includes a proposal to put as many as 1,000 federally funded, armed police officers in schools; boost the identification and treatment of the mentally ill; and fund research through the Centers for Disease Control into possible links between “media images, video games and violence.”
Each of the above steps endorsed by Obama has also been advocated by the National Rifle Association and other conservative groups. However, as the president noted, this is a problem too profound and complicated to be addressed successfully by such policies alone.
The most controversial and ambitious proposal is the banning of assault weapons. The gun lobby points out that under the president’s proposal, other weapons possessing similar firepower would not be banned, raising questions about the motivation and effectiveness of such a ban.
However, assault weapons have a well-documented emotional appeal to those most likely to engage in mass killings such as those at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It is clearly their weapon of choice, perhaps because features that the gun lobby dismisses as mere cosmetic in fact give such weapons a military authority and aura that feed into deadly fantasies. We are under no obligation to continue to pander to such fantasies.
Other proposed changes are straightforward reforms that would not be controversial in a more rational environment. Since 2006, for example, the Senate has refused to confirm any nominee — by Republican or Democratic president — as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It has nothing to do with those nominated, and everything to do with the fact that the NRA hates the agency and wants to do anything possible to cripple it. That type of death grip on policy making has to end.
The president also proposes to make background checks mandatory for all gun sales, whether conducted by a licensed firearms dealer or by a private citizen. As an administration official told The Washington Post, “The best analogy that experts talked to us about in our meetings is that it wouldn’t make any sense at the airports to have two lanes — one where if you go to a licensed dealer you go through the metal detector and if you go to a private sale there’s no metal detector at all. This is an attempt to get everybody through the system.”
There’s no rational argument, other than convenience, to be offered against such a proposal, and on deadly matters such as this, convenience is not a valid objection. The proposal will reportedly include “limited, common-sense exceptions for cases like certain transfers between family members and temporary transfers for hunting and sporting purposes.”
Even after passage of such a law, some people will of course continue to sell weapons on the black market, without background checks. But those people would then be criminals, and if it is later determined that they sold a gun to a known criminal who used it in a crime, they should share responsibility for that crime. There is no Second Amendment argument to be raised on such an issue.
The proposal also includes a ban on the sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. Interestingly, whenever that approach is mentioned I hear two separate arguments against it:
– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would make gun owners less able to defend themselves against multiple attackers, because they would be forced to reload more often.
– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would do nothing to slow down those intent on mass murder, because it takes no time at all to exchange clips.
I don’t think it’s necessary to resolve the inherent conflict between those claims, because it is already clear that those who set off on mass murder sprees have already made their choice. As the White House notes, “the shooters at Virginia Tech, Tucson, Aurora, Oak Creek, and Newtown all used magazines holding more than 10 rounds.”
If the murderers believe such magazines are useful, then we ought to try to deny them that equipment.
The administration also proposes to get serious about gun trafficking, in which legal gun purchasers buy large numbers of weapons for later private sale to criminals. Amazingly, “there is no explicit law against straw purchasing, so straw purchasers and others who traffic guns can often only be prosecuted for paperwork violations,” the White House report states. The gun industry, and thus the gun lobby, will no doubt oppose that change because it would be bad for sales. Again, that is not an objection worthy of consideration under these circumstances.
In the weeks to come, the objection to such basic, common-sense reforms is likely to consist of heated, repeated cries of “Second Amendment!” and “tyrant!”, “Hitler” and variations thereof. That’s because, when addressed individually and on their merits, there are few rational arguments against such steps. Those who oppose the reforms must therefore attempt to shift the debate to the irrational, a battlefield on which they have the advantage by virture of more experience and firepower.
– Jay Bookman
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668 comments Add your comment
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
8:24 pm
Its certainly is a sickness among the conned that the same ones who profess “fetus at all costs” have no remorse or concern for a human being that they destroy because he might take some of their “things”.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
8:26 pm
– I always thought subtlety was lost on just the young…
I always thought that using kids as a prop is wrong regardless of the motivation.
kayaker 71
January 16th, 2013
8:27 pm
Bottom line…. if you don’t want to protect yourself or your family with a firearm, don’t do it. No one is twisting your arm to buy a gun. However, if I choose to do this, that is my right according to the second amendment of our Constitution. Stop trying to take away my right to bear arms. We all do not live in liberal nirvana where our decisions are make for us by a bunch of liberal politicians. You might not be able to think for yourselves but we are very capable of doing so.
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:27 pm
BROSEPHUS
Thanks….I thought I remembered it was something like that. Pretty impressive, I’d say…
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
8:28 pm
You might not be able to think for yourselves but *we” are very capable of doing so.
Is we you and the voices in your head?
Don Abernethy
January 16th, 2013
8:29 pm
Jay, it is a waste of time to debate you on this issue.
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
8:30 pm
Jam,
If it makes you feel better to refer to our Republic as a “representative democracy,” then, sure, go for it. You and George W can get together sometime and talk about the joy of spreading democracy across the globe! According to Jay, RR might even join you, if he was still around.
Despite the frequent modern misuse of the word, the “patriots” you cite devoted an enormous amount of time and energy to ensure the new country did not become a democracy, thus our various systems of checks and balances, all designed to thwart an oppressive majority from imposing their will on minorities (a very progressive idea).
I’ll be the first to admit that – outside those who study politics and history – the difference is popularly viewed as a matter of semantics today. Your openly homicidal fantasies towards gun owners and 2nd amendment supporters goaded me into engaging you on this matter, though I should’ve known better. And, by the way, the Abe quote you referenced was the last line of the Gettysburg Address and never mentioned democracy:
“…that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
I’ll refer you back to your earlier quote about Abe and the internet. I’m going to crack a cold one and toast it “To the Republic.”
TBS
January 16th, 2013
8:32 pm
“Stop trying to take away my right to bear arms.
Without a doubt every proposal that Obama mentioned will not pass Congress and if it does will not have its intended impact. Some of it is certainly window dressing.
With that said, who is trying to take away your “rights” to own a firearm?
There are already restrictions and have been for years, but I have missed any confiscations.
Brosephus™
January 16th, 2013
8:34 pm
josef
Two major events that changed the modern response were the North Hollywood shootout and Columbine. Many departments train their patrol officers to be first responders instead of waiting on SWAT. Many even have the necessary hardware riding around with them in the car.
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
8:36 pm
“You might not be able to think for yourselves but *we” are very capable of doing so.
Is we you and the voices in your head?”
It’s me too. Unlike you, Jammie, I don’t need people like Nanny Bloomberg telling me how to live my life. People like you, however, are so clueless you need Daddy-Gov to tell you what’s good for you.
So sad his advice is so often wrong…
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
8:37 pm
Meet,
Intellectual honesty matters, words matter, respecting the language matters.
And though Scout and others here often try, you cannot make up your own definitions and expect to get away with it.
Christianity IS a religion.
Abortion IS NOT murder.
The United States of America IS a constitutionally limited representative democracy and federal republic.
Enjoy your beer….
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
8:38 pm
josef
will tzipi livni make it to prime minister?
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
8:40 pm
“(Kind of obvious stuff, but probably news to some.)”
ROFL. Some problems with this talk show host’s revisionist history is that 1) the right to bears arms had a long history going back to England and its Bill of Rights and 2) both New York and Massachusetts were insisting upon the right to bear arms during the ratification process (Virginia, in other words, was not the only state holding up ratification on this issue) and 3) this right was largely viewed as a means of defense against a) foreign invasions b) insurrections (such as the Shays’ Rebellion) c) tyrannical government d) threats to life and property. No doubt some in the south viewed arms as a means of suppressing slave rebellions, but they hardly needed the 2nd Amendment to do that. Gun ownership was clearly an established unenumerated right. And anti-slavery fervor in the north did not pitch until well in to the 19th century.
But, hey, thanks for the link. I would never have guessed someone would make such a distorted historical argument about the 2nd Amendment.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
8:40 pm
Aesop, the voices in your head keep telling you not to listen to them!
Thus your confusion!
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:40 pm
What’s all this about rain/snow/sleet? Unmentionable just got back from the store with milk, bread and bathroom tissue.
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
8:40 pm
“dogone what the hell is an agent?”
what happened, you burn your dictionary?
Nduka
January 16th, 2013
8:42 pm
“…boost the identification and treatment of the mentally ill…”
I get nervous whenever governments start defining mental illness. The standard Soviet response to any dissident who dared to criticize the regime was to diagnose him as mentally ill and lock him away indefinitely.
TBS
January 16th, 2013
8:43 pm
“Unmentionable just got back from the store with milk, bread and bathroom tissue.”
No beer, wine or gin?
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:43 pm
FROG
I doubt it this go ’round, but there may be some real surprises coming out of this one…Bibi could lose enough to the new right wing party to put a clinker in things. One of the two of them, though, will have to cobble together a coalition that won’t be the most stable one they’ve ever seen…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
January 16th, 2013
8:45 pm
TIME TO CALL OUT JAY AGAIN !
“Maybe you believe that some 10,000 deaths a year through guns — only 200 of which are classified as justifiable homicide — is acceptable and does not need to be reduced further if possible. Personally, I would disagree.”
As usual he reports only “justifiable homicides” but FAILS to report:
1) The number of “JUSTIFIABLE WOUNDINGS” which stopped a crime.
2) The number of times a gun was FIRED at someone (but missed) which stopped a crime.
3) The number of times a gun was POINTED at someone which stopped a crime.
4) The number of times a perp. SAW a gun on a potential victim which stopped a crime.
5) The number of times a perp. THOUGHT a potential victim might have a gun which stopped a crime.
P.S.
A) I heard today that less than 1% of criminal homicides are committed by “assault rifles”.
Hummmm ……………………..
B) I wonder if doctors will soon be asked to provide information on alcoholic patients or patients with drug problems that would inhibit safe driving. We need a data base so those people will not be able to purchase or drive vehciles. That would save many more lives a year than gun violence.
C) There is a lot of response out there from local law enforcement, sheriff’s, etc. regarding that they will REFUSE to help enforce any unconstitutional regulations or legislation. In other words the Obama administration has set the precedent that they get to tell local law enforcement what federal laws they can help enforce or not (i.e., illegal immigration) so now the tables will turn. Local law enforcement will now be free to ignore federal requests for help in enforcing federal gun laws.
Fair is fair !!!
Liberal Lemming
January 16th, 2013
8:46 pm
“Aquagirl, those “animals” that break into your home are not nice guys. They are not there to have a beer or to watch a football game. They are there to rob you, assault you, rape your wife, harm your children, among other things.”
Look…you’re forgetting that AG is special, like the president. She doesn’t have secret service men protecting her, but she doesn’t need that – she’s AQUAGIRL!!!
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
8:46 pm
josef
I like tzipi, she is reasonable and aggressive, helluva combo and
I think she was the model for ziva on ncis….
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:46 pm
Nduka
I’m with you on that….
TBS
Hey, wine and gin we have in abundance! Not much of a beer drinking household.
independent thinker
January 16th, 2013
8:47 pm
Tell me where the President’s actions differ from this statement: “A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state”
Oh I forgot Scalia and the NRA said the second amendment is not about militias; and individual rights to own sell and shoot any type of arms are more important than the security of the citizens of a state.
Glad the NRA bought off those activist judges.
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
8:47 pm
“I get nervous whenever governments start defining mental illness”
I want to know where you guys go for your eye exams…so I know who to stay AWAY from. Where, pray tell, in what you quoted does it say ANYTHING about *government* defining mental illnes?
TBS
January 16th, 2013
8:48 pm
josef
When you get snowed in…….. sometimes you can’t be choosy
td
January 16th, 2013
8:48 pm
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:54 pm
AR-15 is such a bad thing. What makes the AR-15 such a dangerous weapon that it must be banned? I own a Semi auto 30.06 with a 20 round clip. Which one do you think has more destructive power? Why are you not wanting this high powered Semi Auto weapon?
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
8:48 pm
“I get nervous whenever governments start defining mental illness.”
Me too. But we could start with a list of those who voted for O’bozo…
Rightwing troll
January 16th, 2013
8:51 pm
“I will study all of the proposed regulations and legislation and will support anything that:”
Liar… You’ve already made up your mind not to support anything that ni$$er in the Whitehouse proposes, and you’ve proven that point again and again here over the last 4 years… Please be honest, if not with us, at least with yourself.
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
8:51 pm
F. Sinkwich
I get nervous whenever governments start defining mental illness.”
Me too. But we could start with a list of those who voted for O’bozo
……………………………………………………………………
well deserved nervousness….
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
8:53 pm
Lib stupids when it comes to firearms. A clip verses a magazine: A magazine spring feeds rounds into the weapons chamber. A clip does not employ a spring and depends only on the weapons action to feed ammo into the weapons chamber. The M-1 was the last top loaded clip fed gas operated shoulder weapon used within the military. Assault weapons: assault weapons are both semi-automatic and fully automatic or capable only of 2 to 3 round bursts. Such weapons can only be obtained by special permit and are typically restricted on public firing ranges. A pistol grip on a rifle does not make it an assault weapon. A retractable stock on a rifle does not make it an assault weapon. The 5.26×45 round or its civilian cousin .223 is fired in what is now inaccurately classified as civilian semi-automatic assault weapons. It is actually derived from the .22 a small caliber round. Actually derived from the .222 magnum. The 5.26×45 or .223 is not popular in the military because of its lack of lethality as compared to the 7.62 caliber former NATO round or its cousin the civilian cal. 308 or for that matter the venerable .30 .06, which is .30 caliber ball used in the M-1. Ironically the more lethal rounds aren’t on the radar of these incompetent asses in this administration or recently in New York’s knee jerk rush to gun control legislation. The president with his back drop of innocent children said they are the most important for us to protect, he’s correct. Unfortunately, he only paid weak lip service to accomplishing such protection. We do possess the egress, regress access and monitoring technology along with the availability of qualified security personnel to protect every school from the deranged Adam Lanza’s of this world. Obama and Biden failed in adequately addressing those solutions.
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
8:53 pm
Jam,
Whatever you want to call it. Constitutionally Limited Representative Democratic Federal Republic of the United States of America works for me, speaking of making stuff up. Much as you pissed me off earlier, I do always enjoy the back and forth. Just wish we could take the conversation back from the people you reference who claim Abortion is murder and their counterparts with “all Republicans are racists that don’t care about poor people,” and make it productive again.
As my homage to Diamond Rio suggests, I’ll start walking your way — if you’ll start walking mine. But mostly, as I’m already sitting in the middle, y’all start walking, and I’ll have a beer ready for you when you get here.
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:55 pm
FROG
I kinda like Tzipi myself. A lot like a sabra Hillary…
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
8:58 pm
josef
there are many photos of the two together….
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
8:59 pm
Meet, fair enough.
You may like this:
Some folks is even whiter than me
Some folks is even blacker than me
I got myself stuck in the middle somewhere
And that’s just where I want to be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm9yB3gAS7o
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 16th, 2013
8:59 pm
Well, I reckon I ain’t never heard of anybody luring a sweet young thing back to his place to look at his assault weapon collection.
Anyways, I’m pretty much like the hard-core pro-gun people on here. Once I got too old to fool around with the women, I found out that stroking my guns and dreaming about all the blood and gore I could get out out of some intruder was almost as good. And the best part is, you don’t have to be extra nice to or buy things for a gun to get it to do what you want. So the porn magazines have been replaced by well thumbed copies of American Rifleman, American Hunter Shooting Illustrated, Shooting Sports USA, etc.
Have a good night everybody.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
8:59 pm
Lib stupids
And the Ftroop clownish posters return but no sense reading past the first two words to know there is only more whining, foolishness, buffoonery and chest thumping to hide the fears and the boo-hooing.
Bobo
January 16th, 2013
9:01 pm
I’m going to put this in terms that liberals can understand from an independent libertarian that has no use for either political party: IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT LAW YOU MAKE. You will NEVER EVER EVER be able to enforce any sort of gun ban. If you thought the war on drugs was a failure, just go ahead and try to make a war on guns. ENTIRE STATES have told you to piss up a rope. Go ahead and go to Texas and try to enforce these laws and lets see how many holes get blasted in your federal agents, particularly since this is the same government that hypocritically won’t let Texas enforce existing immigration laws and the same administration that SUPPLIED GUNS to the drug cartels via Eric Holder. I’m not sure what Obama is trying to accomplish. He’s just looking like an even bigger stupid megalomaniac than he already was.
Jm
January 16th, 2013
9:02 pm
Josef
What’s been going on?
How’s the school year going?
PBS has a thing on Michelle Rhee they run every few days
td
January 16th, 2013
9:02 pm
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
8:53 pm
You are so right but you will probably never convince these progressives on the facts. Most of them have never picked up a gun, much less know anything about weapons.
Bobo
January 16th, 2013
9:03 pm
Redneck Convert….you’re making progress. Now the next step would be to go shoot yourself. At minimum you owe it to the rest of us to commit hari-kari to preserve your honor for the utterly stupid attempt at smug mockery you just perpetrated.
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
9:04 pm
AR-15 is such a bad thing. What makes the AR-15 such a dangerous weapon that it must be banned?
I don’t know that it must be banned. The Republic will still stand if it’s not. But then that’s not what I posted now, was it? What I said was that we’re screwed if we actually NEED such things, as private citizens, for protection.
/drive by
Brosephus™
January 16th, 2013
9:05 pm
I see the nightly stooopids have began in full force. Y’all have fun entertaining this crap. I’ll see y’all later….
Bobo
January 16th, 2013
9:05 pm
td- I wish I could give them shooting lessons and tell them to make sure that they look down the barrel to check for obstructions as they fire off a ‘practice round’
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
9:06 pm
the same government that hypocritically won’t let Texas enforce existing immigration laws and the same administration that SUPPLIED GUNS to the drug cartels via Eric Holder
Someone must be watching the delayed broadcast on Fox. the same lies posted earlier today.
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
9:08 pm
Bobo
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
better…
Bobo….you’re making progress. Now the next step would be to go shoot yourself. At minimum you owe it to the rest of us to commit hari-kari to preserve your honor for the utterly stupid attempt at smug mockery you just perpetrated.
kayaker 71
January 16th, 2013
9:08 pm
TBS, 8:32,
I cannot imagine being a parent of a first grader in that shooting in CT. Anyone who is not horrified by this event is certainly sick or deranged. We have, however, in the last few decades, created a society where the criminals take what they want and to hell with anyone. Violence and mayhem reign in many communities. Macon has turned into one of the most violent cities in this country and I happen to live here. The ethnic mix in Macon is about the same as Atlanta, about 67% black. To think that this doesn’t influence what goes on here is pure fantasy. And to all those who defend the “misplaced” ethnicity of this chaos….. they must have a screw loose. There are two different issues here. One is the legal, ethical, responsible gun owner who is thrown into the mix with the crazy shooters who kill children. The liberal spin is that they are one in the same. People who own a gun and speak out about keeping it are nothing but, according to Aquagirl and people like her, people who delight in “stroking their shotguns” and drag their knuckles around while hating black people and being rednecks. You can’t reason with people like this. I have quit trying. But we will keep our firearms. Count on it.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
9:08 pm
if you Republinitwits shoot like you blog, oh Lordy, it would be a hoot to watch…
rightwingextreme
January 16th, 2013
9:10 pm
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:54 pm
And if we’re ever the kind of country where people actually NEED an AR-15 for home defense, we should disband, because that isn’t any kind of a country at all.
good thing you weren’t around in 1812
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
9:11 pm
“Abortion IS NOT murder.”
It has less to do with particular laws or legal definitions and more to do with a culture’s worldview:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/29/latest-infanticide-push-about-more-than-killing-babies/
So people with a different world view than you are within their rights to call abortion “murder”. And if that worldview were to prevail, then probably most abortions would be illegal. So I understand why you resist the poster’s sentiment so strongly.
td
January 16th, 2013
9:12 pm
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
9:04 pm
We have been screwed since the “great society/Social Security and Medicare” was implemented as entitlements because it has set us on the path of insolvency.
You still did not answer the question about the AR-15 vs the Semi- Auto 30.06? Which one is worse?
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
9:12 pm
“But mostly, as I’m already sitting in the middle, y’all start walking, and I’ll have a beer ready for you when you get here.”
Jammie’s getting some tonight!
Yuck.
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
9:14 pm
“good thing you weren’t around in 1812″
They had AR15s in 1812? Who knew?!
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
9:15 pm
td,
They have an obsessive fear of guns and irrationally focus these inanimate pieces of polymer or metal as the source of our societal problems. Our politicians are more interested in fooling the public into believing they’re solving problems than they are objectively truly solving problems. For them and unfortunately for most of the Democrat party it’s only about getting elected or reelected.
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
9:16 pm
Recon
for most of the Democrat party it’s only about getting elected or reelected.
………………………………………………………………
seems to be working….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
9:17 pm
…the same administration that SUPPLIED GUNS to the drug cartels via Eric Holder.
2006 Operation Wide Receiver says, “What?”
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
9:18 pm
“AR-15 is such a bad thing. What makes the AR-15 such a dangerous weapon that it must be banned?”
The main problem with the AR-15 (and rifles in general) is their muzzle velocity. They often just do a LOT more damage than a handgun. That’s just physics. So that, combined with semi-automatic capability, makes it scary. If I did not honestly believe the 2nd Amendment was, in part, intended to protect “the people” from tyranny of governments, I would have no problem with banning this and similar weapons. But on principle alone, I cannot.
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
9:21 pm
“You will NEVER EVER EVER be able to enforce any sort of gun ban. If you thought the war on drugs was a failure, just go ahead and try to make a war on guns.”
This sadly may be true.
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
9:22 pm
Oops, 5.56×45. not 5.26×45. The maturing process (politically correct) or aging process forces mechanical mistakes.
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
9:24 pm
“They have an obsessive fear of guns and irrationally focus these inanimate pieces of polymer or metal as the source of our societal problems. Our politicians are more interested in fooling the public into believing they’re solving problems than they are objectively truly solving problems.”
Well said, Recon.
“For them and unfortunately for most of the Democrat party it’s only about getting elected or reelected.”
That applies equally to Republicans as well. What did Hamilton call Congress – a bunch of “knaves and fools”? And that was back around 1790!
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
9:24 pm
barking says, seems to be working…
And I say for now.
josef
January 16th, 2013
9:24 pm
FROG
Unmentionable says he hears that Hillary will be opening a Consulting Firm in Tel Aviv!
TBS
Jm
School’s going pretty good… life is going better than expected…
On Rhee…her organization’s report card on the nation’s schools was interesting…nobody got an A and the only ones who got a B were Louisiana and Florida…
TBS
January 16th, 2013
9:26 pm
kayaker
I own several firearms myself. I have not nor will advocate for any confiscation of guns. Just as some on the left advocate for a ban of all weapons, which will not happen, it is just as ludicrous of those on the right who claim Obama is coming to get everyone’s guns. Sadly some have been saying this since he was elected the 1st time.
Both of those extreme views do nothing for honest discourse of both sides.
Bobo
January 16th, 2013
9:27 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight….exactly how was the Eric Holder thing a lie when he basically committed perjury and refused to produce any documents and would’ve gone to prison under any other administration? Exactly how is it a lie that the borders of Texas are overflowing with illegal immigrants and that border cities near Ciudad Juarez are more dangerous than the old West? I’m curious to see how you defend your position with something more cursory than a reference to the Tea Party and/or Foxnews and/or George W Bush.
barking frog
January 16th, 2013
9:28 pm
josef
Hilary consulting in Tel Aviv is a distinct possibility……..probably
take Bill with her….
TBS
January 16th, 2013
9:29 pm
kayaker
As for Macon, I have never spent time there. I have been through and around it countless times but that is about it.
If it is that unbearable for you, a change in scenery might be what you need. No need to be miserable. I say that because I have never read any of your posts about Macon that were not negative to some degree or another.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
9:31 pm
he basically committed perjury
That is funny. Almost like “basically committed pregnancy”.
Bobo, now child, turn off Fox and go read the Forbes story on the whole thing. Remember watching Fox will keep you misinformed. Or if you want, Jay did a nice thread about it awhile back.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
9:32 pm
…are overflowing with illegal immigrants…
Reagan’s 1986 amnesty says, “What”?
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
9:33 pm
That applies equally to Republicans as well. What did Hamilton call Congress – a bunch of “knaves and fools”? And that was back around 1790!
Towncrier, I agree but at this point the Democrats are in first place, however, unflattering in my ranking . I’ll measure the Republicans by how well they stick together on the debt ceiling. If they hang tough in spite of the political risk, I’ll applaud them, however, should they cave I’ll put them in the same category as their political cousins.
Liberal Lemming
January 16th, 2013
9:34 pm
“Anyways, I’m pretty much like the hard-core pro-gun people on here. Once I got too old to fool around with the women, I found out that stroking my guns and dreaming about all the blood and gore I could get out out of some intruder was almost as good.”
Wait…you’re not really Quentin Tarantino are you? You don’t sound very smart, but no one here is going to hold that against you. A word of advice: you probably shouldn’t get too explicit with your personal fantasies. My president may come after you with is drones and bureaucratic bots.
Jm
January 16th, 2013
9:35 pm
Josef
Yeah I saw that too
She has tough standards
As it should be IMO
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
9:37 pm
@F. Sinkwich “Jammie’s getting some tonight! Yuck.”
Uh, oh. Getting called out for not towing the party line and trying to find common ground. Ok, let me try:
“BGrrrgggbldy grrrdbly grrrr. Them baby murdering socialist som’ bich’s done took our jobs and now they’s coming fer our guns and next our womans, ‘cept them’s all gays! Get ready for the revolution, y’all, me and Jimmy gon’ fight tearanny with our AR’s we bought last week that we ain’t never shot. Barack OSAMA tryin’ wreck this country and steal our freedoms. Wish we had dubya back…”
Better?
TaxPayer
January 16th, 2013
9:37 pm
What’s all this about rain/snow/sleet? Unmentionable just got back from the store with milk, bread and bathroom tissue.
Fortunately, cons have their guns so they can go out and shoot their bathroom tissue.
Jm
January 16th, 2013
9:37 pm
Josef
Any view on the APS superintendent ?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
January 16th, 2013
9:39 pm
Well, I’ll repeat this one just for YUKS :
I wonder if doctors will soon be asked to provide information on alcoholic patients or patients with drug problems that would inhibit safe driving. We need a data base so those people will not be able to purchase or drive vehciles?
That would save many more lives a year than gun violence.
Liberal Lemming
January 16th, 2013
9:44 pm
” I’m curious to see how you defend your position with something more cursory than a reference to the Tea Party and/or Foxnews and/or George W Bush.”
What do you mean? That…is our standard defense for all of our arguments. It is both infallible and completely logical. We are (by definition) right to begin with, so why bother making a case for anything?
guy
January 16th, 2013
9:47 pm
rightwingextreme, you are correct! you can’t legalize sin!
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
9:47 pm
“I wonder if doctors will soon be asked to provide information on alcoholic patients or patients with drug problems that would inhibit safe driving. We need a data base so those people will not be able to purchase or drive vehciles?”
Pointing out logical flaws in the “agenda” does no good here, Scout. There is a kind of imperviousness to that sort of thing. Try using red herrings or ad hominen attacks. At least that way you will fit in better.
Josef
January 16th, 2013
9:48 pm
Jm
Plenty….but none I’d voice here under my name on the blog! Not to mention there’s that pesky New Year’s resolution.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
9:48 pm
What do you mean? That…is our standard defense for all of our arguments.
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the CRA say, “What?”
Bobo
January 16th, 2013
9:49 pm
That would be answer the original ‘question’, not answer. I guess I should correct that before you decide to go 8th grade English teacher on my ass.
USA Patriot
January 16th, 2013
9:50 pm
JB – “In the weeks to come, the objection to such basic, common-sense reforms is likely to consist of heated, repeated cries of “Second Amendment!” and “tyrant!”, “Hitler” and variations thereof. ”
Okay, “Ben of rats” , this is your world: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34a_1317870586
Jm
January 16th, 2013
9:50 pm
Josef
I take it your not a fan…..
It seems to me he is doing at least a few good things though
Josef
January 16th, 2013
9:51 pm
Taxi
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
9:51 pm
Bobo… tick, tick, tick… bye bye
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
9:51 pm
“Try using red herrings or ad hominen attacks. At least that way you will fit in better.”
Towncrier, LOL…I can think of some blog handles that would relate but I’ll restrain myself.
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
9:53 pm
“I’m waiting on you to actually respond to the answer Einstein…..and I’d rather be a ‘child’ as you put it than to be a Douche-Nozzle trickling with vinegar residue after it has just been extracted from a mucus covered bodily orifice like yourself.”
Okay…I think it’s time to check out. Good night, all (you, too, watcher of “sock puppets”)
Josef
January 16th, 2013
9:53 pm
Jm
Tar Baby don’t say nuthin….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
9:54 pm
Try using
red herrings or ad hominen attacksmultiple sock-puppets. At least that way you will fit in better.Atlas Shruggin
January 16th, 2013
9:56 pm
POLL
Latest Poll on Yahoo.com…340,000 votes
Do you support President Obama’s plan to curb gun violence?
Yes, it’s what’s needed.
33%
No, there aren’t enough restrictions.
8%
No, there are too many restrictions.
59%
Thank you for voting.
..
338,677 votes
Sweeping measures unveiled »
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
9:57 pm
Okay…I think it’s time to check out. Good night, all
New sock-puppet in 3…2…1….
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
9:59 pm
Okay y’all, another day another dollar. Have a good evening. Taps.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
10:00 pm
I certainly hope they clean their hands and practice safe sox.
Jm
January 16th, 2013
10:01 pm
Josef
dbm
January 16th, 2013
10:06 pm
bmdpd
January 16th, 2013
3:39 pm
The purpose of a gun is to kill. The purpose of sodomy is quite different.
dbm
January 16th, 2013
10:09 pm
At last Jay has explained what the assault weapon issue is basically about.
Josef
January 16th, 2013
10:10 pm
Gotta run…g’night
RB from Gwinnett
January 16th, 2013
10:18 pm
Can somebody point me to the place in the constitution where government can grant itself rights the people don’t have?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 16th, 2013
10:26 pm
“I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. … I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses” Karl T. Frederick, NRA President’s Testimony During Congressional Debate of the National Firearms Act of 1934
keith
January 16th, 2013
11:05 pm
Anyone know what the gun laws are like in Chicago? GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK!