Obama’s gun-safety agenda a great place to start debate
The list of legislative proposals and executive actions outlined by President Obama is, as he promised, wide-ranging and ambitious.
Among other things, it includes a proposal to put as many as 1,000 federally funded, armed police officers in schools; boost the identification and treatment of the mentally ill; and fund research through the Centers for Disease Control into possible links between “media images, video games and violence.”
Each of the above steps endorsed by Obama has also been advocated by the National Rifle Association and other conservative groups. However, as the president noted, this is a problem too profound and complicated to be addressed successfully by such policies alone.
The most controversial and ambitious proposal is the banning of assault weapons. The gun lobby points out that under the president’s proposal, other weapons possessing similar firepower would not be banned, raising questions about the motivation and effectiveness of such a ban.
However, assault weapons have a well-documented emotional appeal to those most likely to engage in mass killings such as those at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It is clearly their weapon of choice, perhaps because features that the gun lobby dismisses as mere cosmetic in fact give such weapons a military authority and aura that feed into deadly fantasies. We are under no obligation to continue to pander to such fantasies.
Other proposed changes are straightforward reforms that would not be controversial in a more rational environment. Since 2006, for example, the Senate has refused to confirm any nominee — by Republican or Democratic president — as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It has nothing to do with those nominated, and everything to do with the fact that the NRA hates the agency and wants to do anything possible to cripple it. That type of death grip on policy making has to end.
The president also proposes to make background checks mandatory for all gun sales, whether conducted by a licensed firearms dealer or by a private citizen. As an administration official told The Washington Post, “The best analogy that experts talked to us about in our meetings is that it wouldn’t make any sense at the airports to have two lanes — one where if you go to a licensed dealer you go through the metal detector and if you go to a private sale there’s no metal detector at all. This is an attempt to get everybody through the system.”
There’s no rational argument, other than convenience, to be offered against such a proposal, and on deadly matters such as this, convenience is not a valid objection. The proposal will reportedly include “limited, common-sense exceptions for cases like certain transfers between family members and temporary transfers for hunting and sporting purposes.”
Even after passage of such a law, some people will of course continue to sell weapons on the black market, without background checks. But those people would then be criminals, and if it is later determined that they sold a gun to a known criminal who used it in a crime, they should share responsibility for that crime. There is no Second Amendment argument to be raised on such an issue.
The proposal also includes a ban on the sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. Interestingly, whenever that approach is mentioned I hear two separate arguments against it:
– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would make gun owners less able to defend themselves against multiple attackers, because they would be forced to reload more often.
– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would do nothing to slow down those intent on mass murder, because it takes no time at all to exchange clips.
I don’t think it’s necessary to resolve the inherent conflict between those claims, because it is already clear that those who set off on mass murder sprees have already made their choice. As the White House notes, “the shooters at Virginia Tech, Tucson, Aurora, Oak Creek, and Newtown all used magazines holding more than 10 rounds.”
If the murderers believe such magazines are useful, then we ought to try to deny them that equipment.
The administration also proposes to get serious about gun trafficking, in which legal gun purchasers buy large numbers of weapons for later private sale to criminals. Amazingly, “there is no explicit law against straw purchasing, so straw purchasers and others who traffic guns can often only be prosecuted for paperwork violations,” the White House report states. The gun industry, and thus the gun lobby, will no doubt oppose that change because it would be bad for sales. Again, that is not an objection worthy of consideration under these circumstances.
In the weeks to come, the objection to such basic, common-sense reforms is likely to consist of heated, repeated cries of “Second Amendment!” and “tyrant!”, “Hitler” and variations thereof. That’s because, when addressed individually and on their merits, there are few rational arguments against such steps. Those who oppose the reforms must therefore attempt to shift the debate to the irrational, a battlefield on which they have the advantage by virture of more experience and firepower.
– Jay Bookman
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668 comments Add your comment
godless heathen
January 16th, 2013
6:37 pm
Conversations overheard at gun show in Dalton this last weekend.
That’s nothing compared to what I heard when I was standing in line behind the welfare queens at Whole Foods.
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
6:37 pm
“Just damn. Ok Doggone, you are right (and I was sort of lol). We have EVOLVED into a Democratic Republic”
You’re getting closer. We’ve always had a democractic republic. What has “evolved” is who is eligible to vote for our representatives.
The other half of your brain.
January 16th, 2013
6:37 pm
td
January 16th, 2013
6:29 pm
The other half of your brain.
January 16th, 2013
6:25 pm
I own a semi auto 30.06 with several clips (more then 50 round capacity all together). Is the AR-15 more or less lethal then the 30.06? Why is it that the Semi auto 30.06 or Semi auto 300 mag not on the list as assault weapons?
My point exactly, a Glock can kill just as easily as a hunting rifle. All these killings have been done at close range, a handgun could have been just as deadly.
I haven’t read any stories about assult rifles being used at long distances.
Obama wants 10 round clips, even if it’s 5 rounds, the nuts will just carry more clips. For anyone who never shot a rifle or handgun, it only takes about 3 seconds to change a clip.
I don’t own a rifle or handgun, they aren’t the problem. the nuts are.
Oscar
January 16th, 2013
6:39 pm
President’s plan ssounds good. It should be passed.
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
6:40 pm
“Providing money to local municipalities to hire security for schools falls under that.”
Sez you.
Education is a state & local responsibility. If Abdul and his army of Jihadists storm the beaches of New Jersey, the feds have responsibility to kill every last one of them.
josef
January 16th, 2013
6:40 pm
ERWIN’S
The other half of your brain.
January 16th, 2013
6:41 pm
getalife
January 16th, 2013
6:35 pm
tom,
“Did someone mention the liberal anti-Christ Ronald Reagan?
Supporter of strong gun control
Gave amnesty to millions of Mexicans
Strengthened the hated Earned Income Credit
Tripled the deficit
Raised taxes
Expanded Medicare
Claimed we are a democracy
Product of Hollywood” DannyX
WOW!, For a second there I thought you were talking about Obama.
LUCIFER
January 16th, 2013
6:42 pm
The NRA shot itself in the foot with the ad mentioning the armed security detachment guarding Obama’s children. The ad is a vulgar display of self-interest and makes one wonder if this is the NRA, should its members really be allowed to carry weapons. Poor Charlton Heston is probably spinning in his grave …. er, to rethink — probably not
godless heathen
January 16th, 2013
6:42 pm
I own a semi auto 30.06 with several clips (more then 50 round capacity all together). Is the AR-15 more or less lethal then the 30.06? Why is it that the Semi auto 30.06 or Semi auto 300 mag not on the list as assault weapons?
One thing at a time, grasshopper. They are next.
getalife
January 16th, 2013
6:43 pm
josef,
erin on cnn has been reporting on Mali for months and is finally happy we are engaging in Africa.
I think since our focus is to get aq, they should be watching out for drones and special forces .
I think we are supplying intel but the French is dealing with the situation.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
6:43 pm
Stating that the US is a combination of a Democracy and a Republic is what intelligent people have done for two hundred plus years. Going back to Madison in the Federalist Papers.
They don’t play childish and embarrassing word games and aver nonsensical claptrap that the United States of America is NOT a democracy.
I think you’ve watched too much Sean Hannity…
The other half of your brain.
January 16th, 2013
6:46 pm
The NRA shot itself in the foot with the ad mentioning the armed security detachment guarding Obama’s children. The ad is a vulgar display of self-interest and makes one wonder if this is the NRA, should its members really be allowed to carry weapons. Poor Charlton Heston is probably spinning in his grave …. er, to rethink — probably not
And having children at your speech isn’t? Really!
godless heathen
January 16th, 2013
6:46 pm
Obama wants 10 round clips, even if it’s 5 rounds, the nuts will just carry more clips. For anyone who never shot a rifle or handgun, it only takes about 3 seconds to change a clip.
43 minutes. The time elapsed between the first 911 call reporting a shooting inside the Newtown CT school and the first law enforcement officer entering the building. Magazine (not clip) capacity was not a factor.
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
6:46 pm
“Stating that the US is a combination of a Democracy and a Republic is the intellectual equivalent of stating that my car is a combination of a “Chevrolet and a Tahoe.” ”
Nope, it isn’t. It is saying that your SUV is BOTH a Chevy AND a Tahoe. If someone asks you what you drive, either one would be correct. Using both would be more accurate.
td
January 16th, 2013
6:46 pm
Gov. Rick Perry released the following statement regarding President Obama’s executive actions:
“The Vice President’s committee was appointed in response to the tragedy at Newtown, but very few of his recommendations have anything to do with what happened there.
“Guns require a finger to pull the trigger. The sad young man who did that in Newtown was clearly haunted by demons and no gun law could have saved the children in Sandy Hook Elementary from his terror.
“There is evil prowling in the world – it shows up in our movies, video games and online fascinations, and finds its way into vulnerable hearts and minds. As a free people, let us choose what kind of people we will be. Laws, the only redoubt of secularism, will not suffice. Let us all return to our places of worship and pray for help. Above all, let us pray for our children.
“In fact, the piling on by the political left, and their cohorts in the media, to use the massacre of little children to advance a pre-existing political agenda that would not have saved those children, disgusts me, personally. The second amendment to the Constitution is a basic right of free people and cannot be nor will it be abridged by the executive power of this or any other president.”
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
6:47 pm
“Hey Sinkwich!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Didja hear? Boeing made a bunch of multimillion-dollar planes with these new batteries and they keep catching on fire! You keep up with the news, don’tcha? Remember how you got all over GM’s battery and fire problems? How come you’re silent about Boeing? And let’s not offer up “cause GM is Government Motors and gets all those $$$”, okay? You do realize without government support Boeing would be… in not very good shape, let’s just say.”
Sux for Boeing. I feel bad for them. They are a GREAT American corporation.
Does Boeing owe me $25 billion?
Nope.
Nice try.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
6:48 pm
And having children at your speech isn’t?
Again — George Bush reading The Pet Goat says, “What?”
The other half of your brain.
January 16th, 2013
6:48 pm
Well it’s time to watch some liberal television and see what Jerry Springer is up to.
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think
January 16th, 2013
6:49 pm
Paul @ 1833…eoi much?
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think
January 16th, 2013
6:53 pm
You Obama haters must have nightmares about Al Sharpton becoming President. To laugh, Ha ha…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIdvMjbf9gQ
josef
January 16th, 2013
6:53 pm
getalife
It looks like the Americans, the French, and the Israelis are working on the same page…an intriguing coalition…
what a country
January 16th, 2013
6:54 pm
dogone and jamvet DUH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE CONO
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
6:55 pm
Yet, gun ownership has, indeed, increased dramatically per capita.
bizarre reading of the data. Bottom line is Jay’s correct; a smaller percentage of households have guns, which makes sense, because far more people live in urban settings where they’re not likely to be needed hunting game (well, not legally, anyway.)
And the polling info is about what I had expected–around 40% with some kind of gun, but only about 20% with a handgun.
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
6:55 pm
Good points, Thanx.
You have illustrated exactly what will happen under a single payer, government controlled healthcare system.
Think Nanny Bloomberg on steriods, the liberal wet dream.
getalife
January 16th, 2013
6:58 pm
josef,
I was surprised to see France put troops on the ground there but there are resources to be had.
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
6:58 pm
I see the evening nutters have settled in. For the rational people enjoying the freakshow, enjoy the lurk!
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
6:59 pm
oh, didn’t mean you, josef. Nor you, getalife. (Well, not so much.)
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
7:00 pm
I feel bad for them. They are a GREAT American corporation.
What?????????
That company is absolutely infested with overpaid, incompetent, lazy, stupid, mooching union thugs!
You have illustrated exactly what will happen under a single payer, government controlled healthcare system.
Gawd, I LOVE the VA!
Even the cons like Frankie can’t f&ck that one up!
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
7:00 pm
“65 is the limit. Yes?”
Not where I live. The max out here on the Interstate is 70 mph
Paul
January 16th, 2013
7:01 pm
“Does Boeing owe me $25 billion?”
Thanks, Sinkwich! I just love it when you write that!
Y’know, if you can’t afford to lose $25 billion, you really shouldn’t gamble with $25 billion.
Hope you have enough left over -
Corbin Sharpe
It’s what I do. What some of us do. I gotta run but josef can fill you in.
_____________________________________________
“65 is the limit. Yes?”
Nope. Not in Texas. 85.
Provincials…. sheesh…..
Pleasant evening, all -
Corbin Sharpe. I think, therefore I am...I think
January 16th, 2013
7:01 pm
Thanx for Washington’s wisdom
January 16th, 2013
6:51 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLBAnWGzZAc
Krystal'sBalls
January 16th, 2013
7:01 pm
I like that rundown given on the “hi-cap” magazines earlier. While I do think drum magazines and all of that are totally insane. A 30 rounder, not so much. Yes, it is a bit much but for an AR-15, AK-47 or other “assault” (or in my case considered a “COUNTER-ASSAULT”) weapon, I am okay with it. It was manufactured for that magazine.
It does take time, and sometimes a bit of pain to load magazines. The less loading I have to do at the range, the better. Additionally, a 9mm or .40 cal is oftentimes 15 shot or more. The weapon handle is designed that way. I guess you could make a non-staggered mag for the same weapons…Is it just about the capacity, features, caliber or what? The MP5 is an “assault” weapon. it is however only a 9mm caliber, hardly a .223 high velocity round. I also own a pistol caliber carbine, no different than the same 9mm handgun. Is it an “assault rifle”? Came with a 15 round mag, but bought a 30 simply to reduce reload time at the range because those springs are STIFF. Still 15 rounds is plenty. This thing is complicated.
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:03 pm
Dragging the President’s kids into an argument about kids being slaughtered is a new low.
There is no bar on how low the right will go.
Soothsayer
January 16th, 2013
7:03 pm
The War on Mali. What you Should Know: An Eldorado of Uranium, Gold, Petroleum, Strategic Minerals …
Whatever is reported by the mainstream media, the goal of this new war is no other than stripping yet another country of its natural resources by securing the access of international corporations to do it.
Just plain old imperialism cloaked in a “going after Al Quaeda” mantle. They have something we need or want, so we just steal it from them. Simple. Not complicated.
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
7:04 pm
@JamVet
The only things embarrassing here are your inability to engage in honest debate without resorting to childish demagoguery, and your inability to see that there are those of us out there who disagree with your groupthink and regurgitated talking points and have yet to see nor hear a single minute of Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.
One of the biggest problems with our political system is that people like you think the difference between a Democracy and a Republic amounts to nothing more than “word games.”
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
7:04 pm
Ever wonder why Conservatives don’t much like dumb-ass, meaningless gun control laws? Here’s the answer:
“”Representative Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) said that the National Rifle Association (NRA) opposed President Barack Obama´s gun control plans because the group “still cannot get over” the fact that the president is “black.””
There ya go. Debate over.
Jay wastes a plethora of pixels railing about Rep. Price but remains silent about this doofuss.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
tireofit
January 16th, 2013
7:05 pm
Thanx for Washington’s wisdom
January 16th, 2013
6:51 pm
Why do cars go faster than 65mph?
65 is the limit. Yes?
We should ban any car that goes faster for safety of the children… OK?
Regular Coca-Cola contains too much sugar … We should ban it too.
McDonalds sells food that everybody knows is fattening … Ban McDonalds !
Pot smoking is makes people incapable of driving or operating machinery safely … Make it illegal !
Skydiving is dangerous … Ban it !
Riding a motorcycle is risky … Ban it !
BARF !!!!!!!
++++
And guns seems to bring out the paranoid.
Erwin's cat
January 16th, 2013
7:05 pm
- Kam – And having children at your speech isn’t?
Again — George Bush reading The Pet Goat says, “What?
Come on, was W suggesting banning pet goats?
Was W at a speech endorsing new legislation on pet goats or was it a photo op on a bad freakin’ day?…
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:09 pm
cat,
The proper response would be to excuse himself, get on Air Force 1 to make decisions after a attack.
He froze like a deer in the headlights. He was disaster. Move on.
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
7:11 pm
“dogone and jamvet DUH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE CONO”
The Electoral College ONLY affects the Presidential election. It has NOTHING to do with the election of our representatives/agents in the Congress. And it is those elected representatives that define our government as a democratic republic.
Try again.
F. Sinkwich
January 16th, 2013
7:12 pm
“That company is absolutely infested with overpaid, incompetent, lazy, stupid, mooching union thugs!”
We all have crosses to bear, Jammie. Boeing succeeds in spite of such a handicap. It’s amazing actually. Kinda like seeing a quadraplegic living a fulfilling life.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
7:14 pm
…or was it a photo op on a bad freakin’ day?…
Photo op, yes.
Using kids in a photo op — good for Bush but bad for Obama.
Got it.
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:15 pm
what the heck, figure some here might be interested:
http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery
(Kind of obvious stuff, but probably news to some.)
So Madison, who had (at Jefferson’s insistence) already begun to prepare proposed amendments to the Constitution, changed his first draft of one that addressed the militia issue to make sure it was unambiguous that the southern states could maintain their slave patrol militias.
His first draft for what became the Second Amendment had said: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country [emphasis mine]: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.”
But Henry, Mason and others wanted southern states to preserve their slave-patrol militias independent of the federal government. So Madison changed the word “country” to the word “state,” and redrafted the Second Amendment into today’s form:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State [emphasis mine], the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Little did Madison realize that one day in the future weapons-manufacturing corporations, newly defined as “persons” by a Supreme Court some have called dysfunctional, would use his slave patrol militia amendment to protect their “right” to manufacture and sell assault weapons used to murder schoolchildren.
Kamchak - "Socialism" is just a code word for "fear," the monster under you bed ~ Kamchak
January 16th, 2013
7:16 pm
Kam ?
R U still with us ?
Yes.
Socialism — BOO!
Soothsayer
January 16th, 2013
7:18 pm
“Its Not Fascism When We do It”: U.S. Government Claims that Truth Is Too Complicated and Dangerous to Disclose to the Public
[T]he gradual habituation of the people [ . . . ] to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
– Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free
Similarly, America has – little by little – gone from a nation of laws to a nation of powerful men making laws in secret. Indeed, even Congress doesn’t know half of what others are doing. Secretive, unaccountable agencies [Homeland Security, NSA] are making life and death decisions which effect our most basic rights. They provide “secret evidence” to courts which cannot be checked … and often withhold any such “evidence” even from the judges.
Like the iron fist of the Nazis … Americans must submit to “roving surveillance” and warrantless searches, without the requirement of a Judge’s authorization. Surveillance laws are part of a larger arsenal of weapons against political dissidents and whistle blowers.
Most Americans don’t know the Patriot Act authorizes secret charges relying on secret evidence and secret grand jury statements. Under the Patriot Act, Americans have no right to know who has accused them of what criminal activities, or the dates of the alleged offense.
They’re not even told what law was broken. The government has power to lock up Americans on military bases or other prisons without a hearing or trial. We can be detained indefinitely without any rights of due process at all.
All of this happened in Germany – as in America today – because the governments whipped up so much fear of attack by demonizing the enemy and declaring an open-ended war that people became complacent and stopped thinking for themselves.
History really does repeat itself.
josef
January 16th, 2013
7:23 pm
getalife
It doesn’t really surprise me that much. It looks to me like in the triage of spheres of action to counter “al Qaida” that the French have taken responsibility for West and Central Africa and the Maghreb, the US for the the East Indian Ocean/Hindu Kush, and Israel for Iran and the Levant, putting them into a three-front “war.” It looks like Syria is being left to the Turks.
Jackie
January 16th, 2013
7:24 pm
Wonder why Boeing is still the world leader in passenger planes?
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:25 pm
Looks like we got the banned one back.
Brosephus™
January 16th, 2013
7:26 pm
godless: 43 minutes. The time elapsed between the first 911 call reporting a shooting inside the Newtown CT school and the first law enforcement officer entering the building.
Not to pick on you, but to the point about time, what do you think the reaction time would be in Dekalb County Georgia where gun violence is a daily occurrence vs Newtown Connecticut? Small town departments are not trained or even used to gross violence on a scale as massive as that. A larger city that has a trained SRT/SWAT group ready to respond will likely have a different and much shorter response time. Sure the response time matters, but I wouldn’t get hung up on it.
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:27 pm
thanks,
Stalk Kam much?
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
7:29 pm
Meat, for the second time, stop the charade.
You got crushed because your proclamations are stupid.
And you still cannot even acknowledge what most eight graders know – we live in a representative democracy.
Don’t hate the word, embrace it and join in with two centuries of patriots!
Democracy is the government of the people, by the people, for the people. ~Abraham Lincoln
Soothsayer
January 16th, 2013
7:29 pm
43 minutes! Had to wait for the fresh batch of doughnuts to come off the line!
Lord, forgive me for saying that!
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:31 pm
Pretty accurate take on that disgusting NRA advert:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/16/the-nra-plays-the-uppity-card-against-obama/
This ad isn’t making the case for guns—if anything, drawing attention to the ever-present danger that the President lives under of being shot is an argument for more gun control—but it’s just feeding off the not even subtly racist obsession right wingers have with telling each other that it’s obscene that the President and his family get to live the same lifestyle as all the white Presidents and their families.
Jack ®
January 16th, 2013
7:32 pm
Ban pornography first, then talk about banning guns.
josef
January 16th, 2013
7:32 pm
Jackie
I dunno…ask our sister city Toulouse ’bout that little enterprise hq’d therebouts…
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:34 pm
First, they claim to be intellectuals quoting from uncredible rw media.
Then they will call names and get banned.
Finally, they end up stalking you.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
7:34 pm
getalife
One of my many fans.
I think there is an election coming up for president of the Kamchak Fan Club.
They meet at the Big Chicken in Marietta.
josef
January 16th, 2013
7:36 pm
Jack ®
Not at all being snarky here…define pornography.
BROSEPHUS
What was the response time for Portland and Aurora?
Jay
January 16th, 2013
7:36 pm
The allegation of a 43-minute lag between initial 911 call and response is false. According to the timeline put together by the local paper from dispatcher responses, 18 minutes after the initial call, “Newtown’s reporting one suspect down. The building has now been cleared.”
Jackie
January 16th, 2013
7:38 pm
@josef
The AirBus380 is physically the largest passenger airplane in the world today.
My point was, Boeing still produces a larger quantity than AirBus.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_passenger_planes_are_there_in_the_world
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:38 pm
Big Chicken in Marietta.
The Landmark of stalkers.
Fitting.
Mr_B
January 16th, 2013
7:39 pm
“Give Ronnie a little credit. While he never did any great movies, he should have earned an Oscar while in the WH.”
Why? He didn’t play that role very well, either.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
7:40 pm
Ruh, roh.
Jay got out the giant economy sized can of Bon Ami again.
TBS
January 16th, 2013
7:42 pm
josef
Have you watched any of the “Abolitionists” series on GPB?
getalife
January 16th, 2013
7:45 pm
Listening to rogers the head of the intell committee making excuses for our intell missing the second terrorist attack in Africa.
At least he is saying no boots on the ground but they are boxed in with the cutting thingie.
Of course, there will be no hearings on why intell missed two attacks but that is gop politics for ya.
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:45 pm
First, they claim to be intellectuals quoting from uncredible rw media.
Then they will call names and get banned.
Finally, they end up stalking you.
“Then you win”
–Thomas “Mahatma” Jefferson
Brosephus™
January 16th, 2013
7:46 pm
josef
I’ll have to look those up, but if I remember correctly there were officers in the mall area in Portland. The Aurora response was fast enough that the shooter was initially thought to be part of the responding force until authorities got a good look at his gear, which lacked official identification markings.
kayaker 71
January 16th, 2013
7:46 pm
Last PM I got a call from my neighbor stating that there were several police cruisers in the neighborhood trying to find a perp who had performed a home invasion in the next block. Each of them called two of our neighbors to inform them and the an alert to this animal was set. I have a 12 ga grass cutter that does unbelievable things to a human body when loaded with double OO buck shot. Even the thought of not having this weapon in my home to deny a home invasion is an insult to my intelligence and to my well being and to the well being of my family. Bozo simply does not understand the gravity of this situation in an area which is rife with crime and violence. I do not intend to become a casualty in this circus of government control vs the right of a citizen to protect himself. This idiot in MA, I think Patrick is his name, with his rhetoric and his ridiculous spin on the right of citizens to arm themselves against an invader is about as naive as a person can get. If I need twenty rounds to eliminate more than one person intent on doing me harm, so be it. Bozo and his naive executive orders have done nothing and will do nothing to eliminate gun violence. Hell, there are an estimated 1M assault weapons being held by the citizenry of this country and they are not being held to wipe out first graders.
TBS
January 16th, 2013
7:47 pm
Bro
You get a chance check out the 3 part “Abolitionists” series on GPB. I have watched two of them.
Pretty good stuff.
josef
January 16th, 2013
7:50 pm
Jackie
“In the last 10 years (2002–2011), Airbus has received 7,181 orders while delivering 4,218, Boeing has won 6,360 orders while delivering 3,871. Competition is intense; each company regularly accuses the other of receiving unfair state aid from their respective governments.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_between_Airbus_and_Boeing
Jackie
January 16th, 2013
7:51 pm
@kayaker
I think President Obama is trying to eliminate assault rifles and high-capacity magazine clips to start.
He has said repeatedly, there is nothing anyone can do to prevent violence of any type.
Keep your shotgun to protect yourself and your family and friends.
josef
January 16th, 2013
7:52 pm
TBS
Yes.
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:52 pm
Kayaker:
1. nobody is interested in grabbing your shotgun
2. you fibbed about the AR 15 not being used to murder children in Newtown, earlier. You going to own up to it?
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
7:54 pm
And if we’re ever the kind of country where people actually NEED an AR-15 for home defense, we should disband, because that isn’t any kind of a country at all.
Jackie
January 16th, 2013
7:54 pm
@josef
I agree with your numbers and the competition that has manifested itself between the two companies.
The only caveat I would offer is, AirBus is a government controlled monopoly while Boeing is not.
kayaker 71
January 16th, 2013
7:55 pm
STD, 7:52,
Even the liberal media including your favorite mouthpiece, Matt Lauer, has stated that there were no assault weapons used in the Sandy Hook incident. Look up the video on You Tube.
Aquagirl
January 16th, 2013
7:56 pm
I have a 12 ga grass cutter that does unbelievable things to a human body when loaded with double OO buck shot.
Gun porn fantasy much? Can you please do that in private? It’s icky and we’re embarrassed for you.
Like I’ve said before, it’s not about protecting yourself or your family, it’s about you stroking your gun while imagining blasting some “animal” into pieces.
Shine
January 16th, 2013
7:59 pm
Anti gun looneyness still wont trump simple engineering. I takea 10 round clip and face it north, a ten round clip and face it south slightly overlapping the first and duck tape them(or crazy glue) together. I take another 10 round clip and face it west slightly over lapping the others and duct tape it and do the same to another facing east. I now have a T CLIP that can fire 40 shots in just a few seconds by simply popping out one and rotating the clip and closing the chamber.
We are under no obligation to continue to pander to LOON fantasies that limiting clip size or banning boogeyman looking guns will do a thing but give anti gun loons some sort of mental orgasm.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
7:59 pm
Even the liberal media including your favorite mouthpiece, Matt Lauer, has stated that there were no assault weapons used in the Sandy Hook incident.
The coroner stated that he was pulling bullets out of bodies from the long gun within a day of the shooting.
TBS
January 16th, 2013
8:00 pm
kayaker
It doesn’t matter if President Obama said it. The coroner said back in early to mid December that a Bush Master was used.
That has been established and confirmed
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:01 pm
Jackie
Well, yes and no. Both are very much elements of the general aerospace industries of their respective countries. Airbus, of course, enjoys the access/preference of the EU…
getalife
January 16th, 2013
8:01 pm
“You going to own up to it?”
Never have, never will.
The main reason I claim they have zero credibility and not even trying to fix it.
Jackie
January 16th, 2013
8:02 pm
@josef
The EU is a government-controlled monopoly.
stands for decibels
January 16th, 2013
8:03 pm
wow. So Kayaker is a Hooker (i.e., a truther who thinks there’s a media conspiracy surrounding the Newtown tragedy.)
Shoulda figured.
Jm
January 16th, 2013
8:04 pm
Sooth
Yes Obama is a fascist
kayaker 71
January 16th, 2013
8:05 pm
Aquagirl, 7:56,
Those “animals” that break into your home are not nice guys. They are not there to have a beer or to watch a football game. They are there to rob you, assault you, rape your wife, harm your children, among other things. I do not intend to become a victim. If you think that the threat is not important enough to you to do something about it, its a free country. But don’t think that some government edict so some smart cute comment from the likes of you will change things. BTW, I have other things to stroke besides my shotgun. And if if comes to blasting some animal into pieces, he should not have been there in the first place. Be embarrassed for your self. I don’t need your help.
Erwin's cat
January 16th, 2013
8:09 pm
- Kam – I always thought subtlety was lost on just the young…
Jm
January 16th, 2013
8:09 pm
Jay 7:36
Fact checker
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
8:09 pm
“I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That “all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people.” [XIIth amendment.] To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition.”
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington on the matter of Alexander Hamilton’s unconstitutional (and ironically hypocritical, given his assurances to the so-called anti-Federalists that only enumerated powers would be exercised by the federal government) establishment of a national bank, the first subversion of the Constitution in a long string of such departures up to the present time.
The whole letter is here:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=mtj1&fileName=mtj1page013.db&recNum=983
getalife
January 16th, 2013
8:11 pm
Way to correct your credibility kay but to be expected from cons that had power and failed to govern and still pretend they know it all.
Nothing but bs.
Elections Have Consequences
January 16th, 2013
8:12 pm
“Like I’ve said before, it’s not about protecting yourself or your family, ”
Tell that to Melinda Herman; better yet, tell it to Melissa Burke, the civilian Fulton County Marshal’s employee who did not have a firearm and is still in the hospital.
Of course, you no doubt have your ‘gun free zone’ sign posted by now..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
8:12 pm
“I’ve been at this for a third of a century so my sensibilities may not be the that of the average man, but it’s probably the worst I’ve ever seen,” said Chief Medical Examiner H. Wayne Carver II, who has been a medical examiner for 36 years.
A team of 14 medical technicians worked through the night to complete the grisly job of identifying the children killed by Adam Lanza, 20, in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre so their names could be released today.
Several weapons were found in the school, including a semi-automatic rifle.
“All the wounds that I know of at this point were caused by the long weapon,” Carver said, and many were shot at close range.
So, who am I to believe?
Mast Lauer, or the medical examiner that did the autopsies?
Not really much of a choice.
what a country
January 16th, 2013
8:13 pm
dogone what the hell is an agent? we are a constitutional republic.democrat is a term for rule of the masses guess that a litttle above your pay grade
Erwin's cat
January 16th, 2013
8:14 pm
Aqua – Gun porn fantasy much? Can you please do that in private? It’s icky and we’re embarrassed for you…i remember a western flick where a guy carried a 6 or 4 gauge…can’t imagine
Brosephus™
January 16th, 2013
8:14 pm
TBS
Had not heard of that series. I’ll have to look into it. This past week has been nothing but Disney Jr.
————————-
dB
You actually expect a far rightie, such as Kayaker, to admit when they’re wrong??? Surely, you can’t be serious.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
8:17 pm
what an idiot,
You probably never heard of him, but Abraham Lincoln crushed that stupidity of yours long ago.
Go back to your meth lab.
josef
January 16th, 2013
8:18 pm
Jackie
True, that…I found it interesting that the articles you and I were linking referred to Airbus and Boeing as a duopoly…
DannyX
January 16th, 2013
8:21 pm
Republican crazy has its consequences…
Rasmussen Generic Congressional
Democrats 43%
Republicans 37%
You know its bad for Republicans when their very own Rasmussen has Democrats up by 6%
Aquagirl
January 16th, 2013
8:22 pm
They are there to rob you, assault you, rape your wife, harm your children, among other things.
Well thank goodness we have manly-men like you slobbering over graphic mental images of what they’d look like after your great big manly gun goes off. Your scenario of one territorial control freak who loves violence gunning down another territorial control freak who loves violence…wow, that makes us all feel safer.
Brosephus™
January 16th, 2013
8:24 pm
josef
I couldn’t find anything official, but from news reports, both Portland and Aurora’s response time was a minute and 90 seconds respectively.
http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/5844073-Aurora-police-praised-for-response-to-theater-attack/
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/13/15869486-swarming-police-response-in-mall-shooting-highlights-paradigm-shift-since-columbine?lite