Obama’s gun-safety agenda a great place to start debate
The list of legislative proposals and executive actions outlined by President Obama is, as he promised, wide-ranging and ambitious.
Among other things, it includes a proposal to put as many as 1,000 federally funded, armed police officers in schools; boost the identification and treatment of the mentally ill; and fund research through the Centers for Disease Control into possible links between “media images, video games and violence.”
Each of the above steps endorsed by Obama has also been advocated by the National Rifle Association and other conservative groups. However, as the president noted, this is a problem too profound and complicated to be addressed successfully by such policies alone.
The most controversial and ambitious proposal is the banning of assault weapons. The gun lobby points out that under the president’s proposal, other weapons possessing similar firepower would not be banned, raising questions about the motivation and effectiveness of such a ban.
However, assault weapons have a well-documented emotional appeal to those most likely to engage in mass killings such as those at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It is clearly their weapon of choice, perhaps because features that the gun lobby dismisses as mere cosmetic in fact give such weapons a military authority and aura that feed into deadly fantasies. We are under no obligation to continue to pander to such fantasies.
Other proposed changes are straightforward reforms that would not be controversial in a more rational environment. Since 2006, for example, the Senate has refused to confirm any nominee — by Republican or Democratic president — as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It has nothing to do with those nominated, and everything to do with the fact that the NRA hates the agency and wants to do anything possible to cripple it. That type of death grip on policy making has to end.
The president also proposes to make background checks mandatory for all gun sales, whether conducted by a licensed firearms dealer or by a private citizen. As an administration official told The Washington Post, “The best analogy that experts talked to us about in our meetings is that it wouldn’t make any sense at the airports to have two lanes — one where if you go to a licensed dealer you go through the metal detector and if you go to a private sale there’s no metal detector at all. This is an attempt to get everybody through the system.”
There’s no rational argument, other than convenience, to be offered against such a proposal, and on deadly matters such as this, convenience is not a valid objection. The proposal will reportedly include “limited, common-sense exceptions for cases like certain transfers between family members and temporary transfers for hunting and sporting purposes.”
Even after passage of such a law, some people will of course continue to sell weapons on the black market, without background checks. But those people would then be criminals, and if it is later determined that they sold a gun to a known criminal who used it in a crime, they should share responsibility for that crime. There is no Second Amendment argument to be raised on such an issue.
The proposal also includes a ban on the sale of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. Interestingly, whenever that approach is mentioned I hear two separate arguments against it:
– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would make gun owners less able to defend themselves against multiple attackers, because they would be forced to reload more often.
– Banning magazines larger than 10 rounds would do nothing to slow down those intent on mass murder, because it takes no time at all to exchange clips.
I don’t think it’s necessary to resolve the inherent conflict between those claims, because it is already clear that those who set off on mass murder sprees have already made their choice. As the White House notes, “the shooters at Virginia Tech, Tucson, Aurora, Oak Creek, and Newtown all used magazines holding more than 10 rounds.”
If the murderers believe such magazines are useful, then we ought to try to deny them that equipment.
The administration also proposes to get serious about gun trafficking, in which legal gun purchasers buy large numbers of weapons for later private sale to criminals. Amazingly, “there is no explicit law against straw purchasing, so straw purchasers and others who traffic guns can often only be prosecuted for paperwork violations,” the White House report states. The gun industry, and thus the gun lobby, will no doubt oppose that change because it would be bad for sales. Again, that is not an objection worthy of consideration under these circumstances.
In the weeks to come, the objection to such basic, common-sense reforms is likely to consist of heated, repeated cries of “Second Amendment!” and “tyrant!”, “Hitler” and variations thereof. That’s because, when addressed individually and on their merits, there are few rational arguments against such steps. Those who oppose the reforms must therefore attempt to shift the debate to the irrational, a battlefield on which they have the advantage by virture of more experience and firepower.
– Jay Bookman
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668 comments Add your comment
TBS
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
Not sure how much if any help the President’s proposals will accomplish. For that matter how much of it will get through Congress.
With that said, the “Obama will take your guns if he could” bs is amusing yet sad at the same time.
But do carry on
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
Peadawg,
The 2nd Amendment was not given so I could only defend my home against robbers. It was given or a much greater reason. Don’t twist the words of the Founding Fathers.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
R. W. Extreme — “Since the 1960s, and the introduction of modern liberal thinking, our country has become more violent…and more accepting of violence.”
Just FYI, it was that damned “liberal” thinking that resulted in the Republic you now enjoy.
Head back across the pond and bow down to the Queen if you hate liberal thinking so much.
Victor Midtown
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
Again, I have no major issue with the President’s plan. I do feel that he – and the anti gun elites – will not confront the armed elephant in the room – the angry black underclass. Look at Chicago – the home of some of the nation’s strongest hand gun laws. How many dead? Look at Atlanta – the case of Johnquavious Hood is instructive. As long as our government will not fill its primary role of preserving our LIFE, the citizenry will arm. President Obama has an opportunity he cannot squander – like Nixon went to China – Obama should go to Chicago (figuratively).
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
@Jay
“You may think that’s true, extreme. It is not. The homicide rate in 2011 was lower than it has been since 1963, and roughly half what it was back in the ’30s, for example.”
Yet, gun ownership is at an all time high and has risen for the last few decades. Thoughts?
Regnad Kcin
January 16th, 2013
4:20 pm
“Third…Rifle killings are less than 3% of all gun murders (Assault Weapons with big magazines fall into this category).”
I agree with bmdpd – outlaw handguns instead! The founding fathers had no efficient handguns, therefore we shouldn’t either!
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:21 pm
It’s murder.
Republispeak at it’s finest.
And right up there with Christianity is not a religion and the USA is not a democracy.
They just make up their own stupid lingo that the rest of an educated planet laughs off for what it is…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
4:21 pm
Jerome
Southhampton’s leveled up 2-2 — 75th min.
Damn
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:22 pm
“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
TBS
January 16th, 2013
4:22 pm
Jay
I was waiting to read the response, but you posted the facts already.
Another blogger brought up rape last week under the premise that it had gone up. I posted the stats and for some strange reason never received a reply.
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
4:23 pm
@ JamVet
“They just make up their own stupid lingo that the rest of an educated planet laughs off for what it is…”
So many things I could say… better not
rightwingextreme
January 16th, 2013
4:23 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
R. W. Extreme — “Since the 1960s, and the introduction of modern liberal thinking, our country has become more violent…and more accepting of violence.”
Just FYI, it was that damned “liberal” thinking that resulted in the Republic you now enjoy.
Head back across the pond and bow down to the Queen if you hate liberal thinking so much.
Uhhhh…no reading of early American history would find any resemblance to the modern liberal thinking that emerged in the 1960s….
Peadawg
January 16th, 2013
4:23 pm
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:19 pm
Then answer this: What do you, a regular ‘ol Joe citizen like me, need an assault weapon for?
DebbieDoRight - More Killing To Stop The Killers Until All The Killers Have Been Killed.
January 16th, 2013
4:25 pm
TC: Using that kind of reasoning, then since pedophiles have a documented interest in pornography, we should ban pornography. Are you okay with that?
Question –
(a) How would you know what pedophiles like?
(b) Most MEN have an interest in pornography (and some women); so are you equating ALL pornography with pedophilia OR are you equating MEN with pedophilia?
(c) Where did you come up with that crap you posted?
(d) I like you do you like me?
Yes____________ or No_____________
Please pick one.
PS: That last one, like your posts, have absolutely NOTHING to do with anything but since I knew you wouldn’t understand or appreciate my levity; I felt compelled to add it in. Sorta like your off topic/lopsided comments!
what a country
January 16th, 2013
4:26 pm
obama is out of control with executive orders and the libs keep drinking the cool aid what a bunch of fools you cant fix stupid and the uninformed that voted for him will get all they deserve
getalife
January 16th, 2013
4:26 pm
The right broke their moral compass so the rightwing extremist is incorrect.
When children were slaughtered in other free countries, they banned guns so we failed that moral test.
The gop uses domestic economic terrorism on our economy and occupied a country that never attacked us and we can discuss their broken moral compass for hours.
Heck, we can write a book about the right’s unhinged behavior under President Obama.
Regnad Kcin
January 16th, 2013
4:26 pm
““Murder” has a legal definition.
Abortion is a legal procedure so therefore – by definition – it cannot be “murder.”
I understand and respect your feelings about abortion, but you don’t get to make up definitions of words already in existence.”
Kamchak – thanks for this, every time!
ATL Tiger
January 16th, 2013
4:26 pm
Peadawg,
“Then answer this: What do you, a regular ‘ol Joe citizen like me, need an assault weapon for?”
According to the FBI stats, why would a regular citizen like you need a handgun for? Handguns are responsible for 50% of all murders, whereas rifles only account for 2.6%.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
4:26 pm
“Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is.”
– Thomas “Speedy” Jefferson
Aquagirl
January 16th, 2013
4:27 pm
I should be able to buy whatever gun I want because, um……ABORTION and SLUTS! AND NO JEEZUS IN SCHOOL!
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:27 pm
Here is a Republispeak gem I had never seen before today: the GOP has moved LEFT in the past forty years.
Insane with a capital I…
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:28 pm
Peadawg,
Because it allows us as citizens to defend ourselves against a tyrannical government. The obvious intent of the 2nd Amendment from the writings of those who wrote the Constitution.
Victor Midtown
January 16th, 2013
4:28 pm
The President’s commitment to “video games” research seemed a throwaway line to me; I don’t have the numbers but I suspect his $$$ support from the industry matches any NRA money when it comes time to, you know, enact something.
Regnad Kcin
January 16th, 2013
4:28 pm
“The 2nd Amendment was not given so I could only defend my home against robbers. It was given or a much greater reason. Don’t twist the words of the Founding Fathers”
If you’re not a member of a “well regulated militia,” I think it’s you who are doing the twisting.
TBS
January 16th, 2013
4:28 pm
Aquagirl
Exactly. The inferences that were being made were right out of the “Twilight Zone”
TM
January 16th, 2013
4:29 pm
Didn’t have the people on this board say the NRA was nuts when they came out and said we need armed guards in our schools or claim that armed guards were useless just look a Columbine? Well Obama has now endorsed that so I guess he is nuts too.
Noah Webster
January 16th, 2013
4:29 pm
“I understand and respect your feelings about abortion, but you don’t get to make up definitions of words already in existence.”
You mean like “gay” and “punk”? Here’s your word for the day: etymology.
Jay
January 16th, 2013
4:29 pm
“You may think that’s true, extreme. It is not. The homicide rate in 2011 was lower than it has been since 1963, and roughly half what it was back in the ’30s, for example.”
Yet, gun ownership is at an all time high and has risen for the last few decades. Thoughts?”
—————-
That too is incorrect. While the number of guns is up, the percentage of households where guns are present has fallen pretty dramatically. Fewer and fewer people are getting more and more guns.
See Fact No. 7 and chart at http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:30 pm
…you cant fix stupid.
No doubt. Even the Flip-flopping Massachusetts RINO couldn’t do it!
oldguy
January 16th, 2013
4:30 pm
Not a bad point paul,
But;
1. Look who did the study ABC? yeah no bias there.
2. What was their methodology? who and how many were studied? Residents of the East Village?
3. Their terminology gives away a bias….i.e. “Gun Show Loophole” There is no such thing although I am sure a fairly large number of semi-informed people think there is. (i.e. the same rules governing the sale of guns is in effect at gun shows as anywhere else. The term is pure propaganda).
Finally, do we suspend parts of the Bill of Rights if we can get 51% of the voters to agree to suspend it for the other 49%?
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:30 pm
Regnad,
We are the militia they spoke of. Read your history.
Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
—Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.
DebbieDoRight - More Killing To Stop The Killers Until All The Killers Have Been Killed.
January 16th, 2013
4:31 pm
Long-Gun Registry: Tory MP John Williamson Quotes Martin Luther King In Speech Celebrating Destruction Of Records.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/05/long-gun-registry-mlk-john-williamson_n_1406397.html
Peadawg
January 16th, 2013
4:31 pm
“According to the FBI stats, why would a regular citizen like you need a handgun for?”
I, being a law-abiding average joe citizen, have ONE in my night stand to protect my wife and dogs if an intruder ever decides to visit.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 16th, 2013
4:31 pm
Anderson Cooper responded to claims made by a Florida professor who said the devastating shooting in Newtown, Conn., was part of a government and media conspiracy related to gun control.
Professor James Tracey questioned whether Sandy Hook even happened. Because of his conspiracy theory, families in Newtown who suffered losses have been inundated with hate mail and prank phone calls. One family even had to remove its online memorial page when it was attacked with hateful messages.
Have you gun nuts no shame ?
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:32 pm
Another great “Who is the militia?” quote.
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
4:32 pm
Here’s your word for the day: etymology.
And here’s your word for the day: floccinaucinihilipilification
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 16th, 2013
4:33 pm
I, being a law-abiding average joe citizen, have ONE in my night stand to protect my wife and dogs if an intruder ever decides to visit.
Statistically you are LESS safe with it being there.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 16th, 2013
4:34 pm
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
Good thing its not 1788 huh
Peadawg
January 16th, 2013
4:34 pm
ATL Tiger – now answer my question.
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:28 pm
Paranoid much? Go back to the 1700s…geeze.
Paul
January 16th, 2013
4:34 pm
Keep Up
“just intellect deprived (or is it depraved?).”
I love West Side Story references.
Hey, Natalie Wood’s been in the news. Coroner relabeled cause of death since she fell off that boat and drowned.
I also have it on good authority the Obama Administration is planning ways to take away our boats….
rightwingextreme
January 16th, 2013
4:34 pm
Jay
January 16th, 2013
4:17 pm
“Since the 1960s, and the introduction of modern liberal thinking, our country has become more violent…and more accepting of violence.
You may think that’s true, extreme. It is not. The homicide rate in 2011 was lower than it has been since 1963, and roughly half what it was back in the ’30s, for example.
that being true then why is the prez saying these types of situations are occuring…regarding Sandy Hook?
My point is still valid….we are more accepting of violence in our society.
ATL Tiger
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
Peadawg,
“I, being a law-abiding average joe citizen, have ONE in my night stand to protect my wife and dogs if an intruder ever decides to visit.”
Excellent, so why do you have an issue with owning a rifle (’assault rifle’), shotgun, or muzzleloader for the same exact purpose? Knowing that hanguns are the deadliest form of firearm.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
Etymology is the study of the history of words, their origins, and how their form and meaning have changed over time.
Gay, as used to describe homosexuality, is used and recognized around the world.
Abortion is murder is just made up nonsense used by a very claptrap friendly smallish subset of one American political party.
See the difference, professor?
DebbieDoRight - More Killing To Stop The Killers Until All The Killers Have Been Killed.
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
Because it allows us as citizens to defend ourselves against a tyrannical government. The obvious intent of the 2nd Amendment from the writings of those who wrote the Constitution.
Wow!! You mean your assault weapon can defend yourself from an F14 or a M1 Tank or even an Pershing missle? Awesome!!
Quick question — did all those guns help David Koresh when those tanks came in? Just wondering…..
Aquagirl
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
Question –
(a) How would you know what pedophiles like?
Heh.
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
“You are probably correct and remember we won WW II in large part with an M-1 that utilized an 8 round clip.”
0311/8541, be careful you don’t confuse them as many of the libs don’t understand the difference between a magazine and a clip.
Soothsayer
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
So let me see if I’ve got this straight. Our President comes up with a series of “suggestions,” i.e., Executive Orders, that must still get through a Republican-controlled House of Representatives. And, the point is . . . ?
For those naive few who don’t already realize it, our House of Representatives as well as our Senate is owned lock, stock, and barrel (pardon the pun) by: the NRA, AIPAC, CPAC, the Tea Party, _______________ fill in your own organization, etc.
Do you really think that any significant gun legislation is going to make it through the House of Representatives?
Jerome Horwitz
January 16th, 2013
4:36 pm
For all those stocking guns in fear of government tyranny please be advised that we do have these things called elections. The fact that this country has had peaceful cahnges in power for almost 225 years, probably something no other nation, has is indicative of our strength. If you want to fight a tyrannical government please move to someplace like Syria – they’ll like you there. Paranoia will destroy ya’.
Aqualung
January 16th, 2013
4:36 pm
“I should be able to buy whatever gun I want because, um……ABORTION and SLUTS! AND NO JEEZUS IN SCHOOL!”
Take it from me, you should stop sleeping on park benches and find yourself a home.
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:36 pm
Cheesy,
The Constitution doesn’t have a time limit on it.
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
4:36 pm
@JamVet
Facts are discomforting when they don’t fit in the narrative you’ve crafted to make you feel important, aren’t they? Anyone trying to tell me the GOP of today is MORE CONSERVATIVE than those 40 years ago calling for segregation of the races and the criminal prosecution of anyone considered “sexually deviant” – a definition that today would qualify one as prude – needs to reread their history books, books not offered in government schools, and stop parroting what they hear on MSNBC.
too little time
January 16th, 2013
4:37 pm
There’s no rational argument, other than convenience, to be offered against such a proposal, and on deadly matters such as this, convenience is not a valid objection. The proposal will reportedly include “limited, common-sense exceptions for cases like certain transfers between family members and temporary transfers for hunting and sporting purposes.”
Even after passage of such a law, some people will of course continue to sell weapons on the black market, without background checks. But those people would then be criminals, and if it is later determined that they sold a gun to a known criminal who used it in a crime, they should share responsibility for that crime. There is no Second Amendment argument to be raised on such an issue.
Sure there is. I won’t even go to the “they are building a registration database” route. I’ll take the high road: Demanding all sales go through an FFL, unless it is FREE, amounts to charging people to exercise their constitutional right. What if the federal government charged you $40 every time you had a blog published in the AJC , Jay? What if every “occupier” had to pay a daily fee to the government to protest? What if every million persons in a million person march had to pay a fee to the government to participate?
These would all be “fees” paid to exercise constitutional rights. That, essentially, is what an FFL fee is.
Make the FFL NICS check free, and you have my support to close the Face-to-Face transaction loophole (often referred to as “the gun show loophole”). But I should not have to pay to purchase a gun from a neighbor (I KNOW I am not a prohibited person), nor should I have to pay to transfer a gun to someone I KNOW is not a felon or mentally deranged.
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:38 pm
Jerome,
You miss the point. Being armed keeps tyranny away. I’m not paranoid. I want the next 225 years to stay free. An armed populace is a linchpin of that.
rightwingextreme
January 16th, 2013
4:38 pm
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:21 pm
It’s murder.
Republispeak at it’s finest.
And right up there with Christianity is not a religion and the USA is not a democracy.
They just make up their own stupid lingo that the rest of an educated planet laughs off for what it is…
The USA at the Federal level is not a democracy….we are a Constitutional Republic.
Jay
January 16th, 2013
4:38 pm
“I also have it on good authority the Obama Administration is planning ways to take away our boats….”
Not boats in general, Paul. Only yachts. You know, the war on the rich and all.
And once yachts are outlawed, only criminals will have yachts. That’s how we’ll be able to identify them.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 16th, 2013
4:38 pm
JAY
First, exactly how are the 1000 federally funded armed guards going to be allocated? What’s that 20 or so per state or will they be allocated by number of electoral votes?
Second, when was the last time you heard a politician use the phrase “we are gonna get serious on FILL IN THE BLANK..” To me that translates to we are gonna serious about being serious.
I’m very interested to see exactly how the identification and improved treatment of the mentally ill will be carried out. I think they referred to only those mentally ill that have made threats…Are we going to have to screen every person who is alledgedly mentally ill so not to be accused of profiling?
I like all of these ideas but several, if not most, are no more than political theatre as no way any results can be measured….I’m not feeling any safer for my kids..
Atlas Shrugging
January 16th, 2013
4:39 pm
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten..I don’t know who posted the blog “have one in my night stand”, but I am sure like me he would say come on in and see if I’m less safe!
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:39 pm
Debbie,
Please give up your rights because you can’t defend them. I didn’t think so.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:39 pm
Not be remotely confused with the WELL REGULATED militia as written into our Bill of Rights, huh meat?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 16th, 2013
4:39 pm
Cheesy,
The Constitution doesn’t have a time limit on it.
No it doesn’t.
It also doesnt say gun anywhere in it.
DebbieDoRight - More Killing To Stop The Killers Until All The Killers Have Been Killed.
January 16th, 2013
4:39 pm
Have you gun nuts no shame ?
No.
Double Duh!
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:40 pm
Cheesy,
That’s great logic. Find a constitution lawyer (left or right) who thinks guns and arms are not the same thing!
That’s funny!
Esquire
January 16th, 2013
4:41 pm
You write:
However, assault weapons have a well-documented emotional appeal to those most likely to engage in mass killings such as those at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It is clearly their weapon of choice, perhaps because features that the gun lobby dismisses as mere cosmetic in fact give such weapons a military authority and aura that feed into deadly fantasies. We are under no obligation to continue to pander to such fantasies.
**************************************
I apologize I haven’t had a chance to read your entire article but that paragraph jumped out at me. The mother of the Sandy Hook terrorist was the gun enthusiast. Isn’t it possible that the choice of weapons was merely opportunity or are you saying that the killer actually enjoyed killing more with the assault weapons vs others at his disposal?
Aquagirl
January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm
Take it from me, you should stop sleeping on park benches and find yourself a home.
What, and possibly move in next to one of these gun nuts? Are you trying to get me killed?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm
WOW, first we have virtually everyone today playing constitutional scholars…in addition, I haven’t seen more references to Hitler in my history on this forum…
td
January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm
Jay and other progressives on this blog:
I asked this question on the previous blog and no one seemed to want to respond so I will ask it on this one.
This whole exercise is a mute point. The Democratic Senator of ND and WV have both already said they will NOT vote for any bans on weapons so that leaves the Senate with 52 Democratic majority.
There are 6 Dem Senators up for re election in 2014 in Red states: Mark Begich of Alaska, Max Baucus of Montana, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Mark Pryor of Arkansas.
How many of them will vote for any bans on guns?
getalife
January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm
The cons do not have the guts to call the despicable nra ad out of line.
corporate media are giving them hell over this.
The gop are cowards.
Noah Webster
January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm
“And here’s your word for the day: floccinaucinihilipilification”
No don’t spit all over yourself uttering that term. And you should work on your self esteem. Just because you are familiar with nonsense words doesn’t mean…look…it was sesquipedalian…how about that? That’s no small accomplishment!!!
Jay
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
“An armed populace is a linchpin of that.”
No, it’s not. That’s just foolishness. Iraq, for example, has a heavily armed populace, but they couldn’t come close to overthrowing Saddam.
There is no plausible way to use the sidearms possessed by the American populace to challenge the overwhelming firepower of the U.S. government. It is fantasy. If our liberty depends on the ability of the people to overthrow the government by armed force, our liberty ended more than a century ago.
You are just repeating romanticized BS.
Bob Miles
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
Enter your comments here- As a retired Army Soldier who grew up in the slums or ghetto; I am convinced that too many citizens along with the masses of our elected federal, state and local politicians are out of their minds with their gun control logic. These nuts are oriented toward eliminating/controlling guns rather than taking action to eliminate the cause of the thousands of gun related deaths caused by criminals. Our so called smart politicians and the public might consider immediately executing any person who kills an individual with a gun while committing a criminal act. In my opinion, the White House is making all this noise about gun control in order to throw out the second amendment so that only the criminals will have guns. I am waiting to hear of a gun leaving a drawer, going out shooting someone. Neither have I heard of a car without a driver killing people on the highways. Our culture appears to demand that we not really hold individuals accountable for tragic criminal behavior. We refuse to make the cost of killing people with guns greater than 98 percent of the killers would be willing to pay.
Country Before Party
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
Conversations overheard at gun show in Dalton this last weekend.
“You voted for Obama and came to a gun show, you are stupid aren’t you”
“School shootings would never happen if Prayer and The 10 Commandents were back in school”
“I’d like for then to try and cone get my guns”
And my favorite “there’s probably black helicopters watching us now”
I should have been selling tin foil hats.
rightwingextreme
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
4:35 pm
“You are probably correct and remember we won WW II in large part with an M-1 that utilized an 8 round clip.”
And in NY that would be illegal today!
Joe Hussein Mama
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
R. W. Extreme — “Uhhhh…no reading of early American history would find any resemblance to the modern liberal thinking that emerged in the 1960s….”
That’s because “liberal” thought emerged at least a couple centuries before that, pal.
Conservatism during the Revolution meant being a Royalist and supporting the King.
Liberalism during the Revolution meant supporting freedom for the colonies and *overthrowing* the Royal governors.
You’re welcome.
TBS
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
” Being armed keeps tyranny away. I’m not paranoid. I want the next 225 years to stay free. An armed populace is a linchpin of that.”
Is there tyranny in every country that has strict gun laws?
Not saying that I am for guns being confiscated as some on the right have asserted that Obama wants to do, but there are many examples around the world that refute what you are saying
td
January 16th, 2013
4:43 pm
getalife
January 16th, 2013
4:42 pm
The cons do not have the guts to call the despicable nra ad out of line.
corporate media are giving them hell over this.
The gop are cowards.
That is because there is nothing wrong with the ad and it is factually correct.
joe
January 16th, 2013
4:44 pm
There is no debate on this…if someone is breaking into your home, you are much safer with a gun than without. As far as schools go, place retired military on campus with arms. That will keep the nut jobs away. Our legal citizens will never be disarmed, not matter how loudly the loony left cries.
resno2
January 16th, 2013
4:44 pm
bmdpd: maybe the consistent drop in murders over the past 4 years is due the huge increase in gun ownership since obama took office. Wow… I guess he is doing some good.
Obamatron
January 16th, 2013
4:45 pm
“And once yachts are outlawed, only criminals will have yachts. That’s how we’ll be able to identify them.”
Unless, of course, they are concealed. That still remains a problem…
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 16th, 2013
4:46 pm
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten..I don’t know who posted the blog “have one in my night stand”, but I am sure like me he would say come on in and see if I’m less safe!
He is less safe.
Statistically speaking if you have a gun in your house you are far far far more likely to be a victim of gun violence than if you dont.
Your actually safer not having a gun at all.
Thats a fact Jack.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
This whole exercise is a mute[sic] point.
Oh, the irony.
JamVet
January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
The USA at the Federal level is not a democracy.
And you sir, are not remotely correct.
BTW what caused this Republican hatred for the D word?
Up until you neocons came to rise, I had NEVER, EVER, EVER seen anyone who was crazy enough to even posit such inanity.
Intelligent people know that this country can be defined in multiple terms, NONE of which are mutually exclusive.
Simply put the United States is a representative democracy, a federal republic, a democratic republic, a constitutional republic.
Do yourself a favor and retake ninth grade Civics.
Thank you.
Jay
January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
td, as a practical matter you’re probably right, at least about the assault weapon ban, but sometimes it’s important to try even knowing that you’ll fail … THIS time. Change doesn’t happen overnight.
Other parts of the agenda have a better chance of passage; we’ll have to see.
Whatever
January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
Jay,
Romantacize with George Washington then. He said it, not me.
“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
I have a splendid idea. Since the GOP and Feinstein have assisted Obama to continue warrantless eavesdropping, why not simply tap phones of those mentally ill, any kid that looks or acts like the not-to-mentally ill Columbine killers, as well as the senior NRA folks?
It was ok for bush and its ok for Obama….let’s make the most of it..
Peadawg
January 16th, 2013
4:47 pm
“Excellent, so why do you have an issue with owning a rifle (’assault rifle’), shotgun, or muzzleloader for the same exact purpose?”
Shotgun or muzzleloader, I have no problem with. It’s the assault rifles with 100 round magazine that I think is overkill and un-called-for.
MeetInTheMiddle
January 16th, 2013
4:48 pm
@ Jay
“That too is incorrect. While the number of guns is up, the percentage of households where guns are present has fallen pretty dramatically. Fewer and fewer people are getting more and more guns.
See Fact No. 7 and chart at http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/”
Completely misleading statistic,. Yes, percentage of HOUSEHOLDS that responded to a Gallup poll admitting a gun in the house is down. Yet, gun ownership has, indeed, increased dramatically per capita. And this isn’t a case of an isolated group of people hoarding guns. You really think a Gallup phone survey of “households” is going to give an honest representation of gun ownership? Even if it is true, the number of guns in the country is increasing at a rate greater than the population growth rate, yet gun crimes continue to fall.
Jerome Horwitz
January 16th, 2013
4:50 pm
Sorry Whatever I do not find your point valid. Paranoid perhaps, but, not valid. And as our blogmaster called is -BS!
DebbieDoRight - More Killing To Stop The Killers Until All The Killers Have Been Killed.
January 16th, 2013
4:50 pm
Debbie, Please give up your rights because you can’t defend them. I didn’t think so.
Whatever —- whatever the hell are you talking about?
Seriously.
I have the right to birth control — are you trying to take that away from me? I have the right to beer!
I have the right to television and gratuitous sex on TV!! I have the right to watch reruns of 24!
I have the right to point out that you have all the earmarks of a simpleton with simplistic thinking and a simplistic argument!!!
And let it be known SIR…..let it be known….that I’ll give up my rights when you pry them from my cold dead hands!!!!!
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/853/MIDDLE_FINGER_CHILD.jpg
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 16th, 2013
4:50 pm
Can anyone tell me why insurance companies don’t offer discounts for gun owners?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 16th, 2013
4:50 pm
C. Before P. — “You voted for Obama and came to a gun show, you are stupid aren’t you”
I hope it wasn’t one of the sellers who said that. Calling a potential customer “stupid” is a good way to lose a sale.
Recon 0311 2533
January 16th, 2013
4:50 pm
“Do you really think that any significant gun legislation is going to make it through the House of Representatives?”
According to Harry Reid it wouldn’t make it through the Senate, so he’s indicated according to reports that he won’t bring it up for a vote.
Jay
January 16th, 2013
4:51 pm
Romantacize with George Washington then. He said it, not me.”
No, he did not say it. You did.
Washington would never say anything that ludicrous. Look it up. You’re using a bogus quote to defend a bogus position.
Towncrier
January 16th, 2013
4:51 pm
“No, it’s not. That’s just foolishness. Iraq, for example, has a heavily armed populace, but they couldn’t come close to overthrowing Saddam.”
And then there’s, on the other hand, insurgencies like the IRA. By the way, how are we doing in Afghanistan these days – you know, with all of that firepower?
Doggone/GA
January 16th, 2013
4:51 pm
“The USA at the Federal level is not a democracy….we are a Constitutional Republic”
Wrong…it’s ALWAYS wrong. We are a Constitutional DEMOCRATIC Repulic. As opposed to , for instance, a Communist Republic.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 16th, 2013
4:53 pm
“Mama Mia, that’s a spicy meatball.”
– George Washington
oldguy
January 16th, 2013
4:53 pm
I certainly have no shame about exercising my 2nd Amendment rights Debbie.
Do you have any about exercising your 1st Amendment rights?
And as you have no intention of compromising your 1st Amendment rights I have no intention of compromising my 2nd Amendment rights!
Aquagirl
January 16th, 2013
4:54 pm
There is no debate on this…if someone is breaking into your home, you are much safer with a gun than without.
That is a fantastic argument from the point of a man whose main concern is being unmanned by an intruder despoiling his property. The rest of us would like to avoid dying, so please take your point to the Scared Menz Support Group and share. The rest of us aren’t buying.
Sorry to tell you this bub, the entire world no longer revolves around your point of view and what’s important to make you FEEL better, despite the effects in the real world. Thus all the screaming about abortion and Judeo–Christian persecution and whatnot.
MANGLER
January 16th, 2013
4:55 pm
towncrier,
Your porn analogy fails because we do ban child pornography. If you are found having it, you get into quite a bit of trouble and are tagged for life for it. We do not, however, ban all pornography. Just that which is not acceptable by any public standards.
So, moving that onto assault weapons. If they are banned, it will be the types of guns that are not acceptable for the public, the civilian public. If you are found to be trading in them, you will be arrested for a long time, and tagged for life over it. But there will still be other types of guns that can be bought and sold. Just not that type which is not acceptable by any public standards.
Just because you want them and are OK with them, does not mean it’s OK for you to have them. Same way someone who is OK with child pornography doesn’t mean it’s OK to have it.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 16th, 2013
4:55 pm
There is no debate on this…if someone is breaking into your home, you are much safer with a gun than without.
Dead 100 percent incorrect
If you dont have a gun you are more likely to survive.
If you do and you happen to get to it half asleep. Well its wild west time and odds are your gonna be on the bad end of that.
weetamoe
January 16th, 2013
4:55 pm
Well the Nazi accusation has already been hurled—-against the NRA by old time liberal media personality/reporter/interviewer Bob Schieffer. I’m sure the families of those innocent Mexicans slaughtered by Obama/Holder–ordered gun trafficking schemes known as *Fast and Furious*share my antipathy against the ATF as does most likely the daughter of Randy Weaver who was an infant held in the arms of her mother when her mother was shot and killed by an ATF agent. The notion that the slightly different design of one so-called assault rifle has some sort of emotional appeal for a wannabe mass murderer is far far from sane and rational–kind of ironic considering the source and context here. What is truly repugnant is Obama’s assumption that he can use other people’s children as props to push his own agenda–and it is something he often does. Oh, and wasn’t it one of the drone jockeys under his command who uttered the infamous *did we just kill a kid*?