House GOP still hellbent on debt-ceiling showdown
The juxtaposition here is telling.
First, from Politico, an explanation of how House Republicans and their leaders are approaching the issue of a looming showdown over the debt ceiling:
“I think it is possible that we would shut down the government to make sure President Obama understands that we’re serious,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington state told us. “We always talk about whether or not we’re going to kick the can down the road. I think the mood is that we’ve come to the end of the road.”
Republican leadership officials, in a series of private meetings and conversations this past week, warned that the White House, much less the broader public, doesn’t understand how hard it will be to talk restive conservatives off the fiscal ledge. To the vast majority of House Republicans, it is far riskier long term to pile up new debt than it is to test the market and economic reaction of default or closing down the government.
GOP officials said more than half of their members are prepared to allow default unless Obama agrees to dramatic cuts he has repeatedly said he opposes. Many more members, including some party leaders, are prepared to shut down the government to make their point. House Speaker John Boehner “may need a shutdown just to get it out of their system,” said a top GOP leadership adviser. “We might need to do that for member-management purposes — so they have an endgame and can show their constituents they’re fighting.”
That’s right: By the admission of top GOP officials, internal party “member-management purposes” may require them to force a shutdown of the U.S. government. Furthermore, House Republicans are out of the speaker’s control and even more intransigent than understood by the White House and the general public, which already believes them to be extremist.
Now contrast that with President Obama’s statements today at a White House press conference to close his first four-year term:
“America cannot afford another debate with this Congress about whether or not they should pay the bills they’ve already racked up. If congressional Republicans refuse to pay America’s bills on time, Social Security checks, and veterans benefits will be delayed.
We might not be able to pay our troops, or honor our contracts with small business owners. Food inspectors, air traffic controllers, specialists who track down loose nuclear materials wouldn’t get their paychecks. Investors around the world will ask if the United States of America is in fact a safe bet. Markets could go haywire, interest rates would spike for anybody who borrows money. Every homeowner with a mortgage, every student with a college loan, every small business owner who wants to grow and hire.
It would be a self-inflicted wound on the economy. It would slow down our growth, might tip us into recession. And ironically it would probably increase our deficit. So to even entertain the idea of this happening, of the United States of America not paying its bills, is irresponsible. It’s absurd….
Republicans in Congress have two choices here. They can act responsibly, and pay America’s bills, or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The financial well-being of the American people is not leverage to be used. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip.”
In the weeks ahead, the American people will have to decide which of those two narratives they find more appealing, patriotic and rational. But the GOP has already made its choice. They continue to insist, publicly and apparently in private conversations among themselves, that it’s “damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead” toward a government shutdown. Having whipped themselves into a fervor, convinced of the holiness of their mission, they will not be dissuaded from carrying it out.
The rest of us are just along for the ride.
– Jay Bookman
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1,012 comments Add your comment
Joe Hussein Mama
January 15th, 2013
9:29 am
E. H. Consequences — “There are no cuts, except for the 600B robbed from Medicare.”
Debunked repeatedly here; most recently right here in this thread last evening.
Jm
January 15th, 2013
9:29 am
your tax dollars, hard at waste
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-14/sandy-aid-shouldn-t-pay-for-haphazard-beach-building.html
Jm
January 15th, 2013
9:31 am
Paul
I’m not playing that game
You know the president has to sign legislation, including spending for it to become law
The President is driving the bus. Over the edge I might add.
Donovan
January 15th, 2013
9:32 am
Enter your comments here
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
9:33 am
You just don’t get it do you? Obama, Nanny Pelosi & Hairy Weed don’t have and never had a plan to reduce the debt…….. just a plan to get reelected. I have been telling you for YEARS that you are voting for PARTY LOYALISTS that don’t give a “D” about this country. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity and the politicians in Hollyweird North (also known as D.C.) are INSANE and you voted for this INSANE gub’ment. We need a 3rd party that is LOYAL to the sound FISCAL future of the USA – not PARTY LOYALISTS. A BALANCED BUDGET amendment to the Constitution and TERM LIMITS in Congress. The only way to rid ourselves of this INSANITY.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 15th, 2013
9:33 am
RB from Gwinnett: “Let’s ask you libs a question… You got your tax increase on the rich, which was little more than window dressing, so, if you also get the debt ceiling increase, then what? What’s the plan to stop the massive debt we’re piling up on our future generations? Or do you even care?”
You’re right about all that, as far as Obama is concerned. The tax raise is indeed just window dressing (the vast majority of the Bush tax increases were made permanent, despite what was promised) while the wealthy continue to roll back nearly the entire 20th Century social programs — as liberals will learn to their great displeasure come the debt ceiling “fight (more staged than actual) and Obama finally gets to ram his “grand bargain” down the people’s throats.
But one little problem: the party you’re supposedly saying all this in support of is vastly worse from the standpoint of strictly fiscal matters, the deficit, etc. It was YOUR party that primarily racked up the gigantic deficits, starting in the 1980s but really getting fired up in the 00s.
I understand why the elites of your party do this. They’re LYING. But what’s YOUR excuse?
williebkind
January 15th, 2013
9:34 am
“Does anybody looking at the economy not think it’s growing?”
Even a slug has a fast gear–huh?
Welcome to the Occupation
January 15th, 2013
9:34 am
Sorry, meant to say “vast majority of Bush tax CUTs” of course.
bucket
January 15th, 2013
9:34 am
How amazing is it that the most sensible and factual statement that the current POTUS ever made is something that he now regrets? The current debt ceiling debate in Washington points to several facts that President Obama has forgotten from his earlier statement. Fact: We do have a failure of leadership in Washington on BOTH sides of the aisle. Fact: the US does depend on borrowing foreign money to pay our bills. Fact: our government does have a reckless fiscal policy. What family or business could run it’s finances the way our government does? Fact: our debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Fact: the politicians in Washington have burdened future generations with debt. Fact: “Americans deserve better.”
St Simons - aboriginal Bootakook 2014
January 15th, 2013
9:34 am
“the problem is spennnnding…”
“Little Nero w/a Cowboy Hat was a Democrat..”
“Obama just like Bush…..”
“terrrrm limits!…” (when you lose)
“liar/flip-flopper” (yes, irony challenged cons after Iraq & Mittens)
They’re lost.
They’re just flailing, babbling at the wind at this point.
The AM radio broadcasts from Area 51 tell them what to say & think.
They don’t even know or care what they’re saying anymore.
Paul
January 15th, 2013
9:35 am
Jm
” I’m not playing that game”
Article One of the Constitution is a game?!!?
“You know the president has to sign legislation, including spending for it to become law”
Well, yeah, duh…. And how does the president get the legislation?
“Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated”
So, Jm, the spending BILLS ORIGINATE IN THE HOUSE and are passed by the Senate, then it is PRESENTED to the president.
And that to you is the “President is driving the bus”?!1/
I think I see where the problem is in conland…..
williebkind
January 15th, 2013
9:36 am
My paycheck was $126 less and I earn less than 400k. Who lied to me?
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
9:36 am
2013 ……… ironic? 13.
td
January 15th, 2013
9:36 am
Jay
January 15th, 2013
7:07 am
“Who created the Department of Homeland Security, the most recent massive expansion of government bureaucracy and power, Mr. Edge?”
Oh now Jay. You progressives can not argue in one breath that the number of Federal employees have decreased and in the next breath say the creation of a Department is “massive expansion of government bureaucracy”.
“Which president insisted on passage of No Child Left Behind, a massive intrusion by the federal government into education, which had previously been largely a state and local matter?”
Yes, Bush wanted education accountability and trusted Ted Kennedy. Huge mistake.
TaxPayer
January 15th, 2013
9:37 am
Hurry up and cut off those payments to senior citizens and to federal employees and to government contractors, cons. Make my day.
Skip
January 15th, 2013
9:38 am
So now JM is blaming Obama for not stopping the Republican House’s spending?
Donovan
January 15th, 2013
9:38 am
Stop the damn spending, Democrats! You all support unions who strike to get their demands met. There is nothing wrong with Republicans striking to get their demands met.
We’ve kicked this stupid can down the road long enough. Enough is enough.
Put a ceiling on our national credit card for crying out loud. Only necessary bills that should be paid will be paid.
Christian Conservative
January 15th, 2013
9:38 am
Hurry up already Bookman… With your tripe touting Colon Powell’s comments on how the GOP is raciest…. You did get the memo form media Matters for the narrative of the day didn’t you?
St Simons - aboriginal Bootakook 2014
January 15th, 2013
9:39 am
The Pahhty of ‘god’ is hell-bent.
if that doesn’t scream ‘lost your way,’ i don’t know what does
i would only add ‘rot-in-hell-bent’
williebkind
January 15th, 2013
9:39 am
Hurry up and cut off those payments to federal employees and to government contractors, libs. Make my day.
Tundra Dude
January 15th, 2013
9:40 am
amen Sen. Rob Portman
Axshully, Portman misses the (tried and tested) solution: Let the next prez worry about it.
(snipped)
The AP’s Charles Babington reports that most GOP officials no longer want to talk about their own record.
Six years ago, “it was standard practice not to pay for things,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.
“We were concerned about it, because it certainly added to the deficit, no question.
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
9:40 am
Most of Hollyweird elite got their money and their duel citizenship abroad. Yet you listen to these non loyalists?
Granny Godzilla
January 15th, 2013
9:43 am
Watch…..their floundering.
Paul
January 15th, 2013
9:43 am
williebkind
“My paycheck was $126 less and I earn less than 400k. Who lied to me?”
Fox?
For misrepresenting SS withholding as the same as an income tax marginal rate increase?
td
January 15th, 2013
9:43 am
Christian Conservative
January 15th, 2013
9:38 am
Hurry up already Bookman… With your tripe touting Colon Powell’s comments on how the GOP is raciest…. You did get the memo form media Matters for the narrative of the day didn’t you?
Either the narrative you mentioned or the one that Republicans are dissing the President by not showing up to any social events.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 15th, 2013
9:44 am
bucket: “What family or business could run it’s finances the way our government does? ”
Irrelevant.
The family “kitchen table” metaphor completely irrelevant to discussions of a major national economy.
you can't fix stupid or Democrats or liberals
January 15th, 2013
9:44 am
Obama is not going to have his way on this . He’s like s child who lays in floor and cries until he gets his way. Realy tired of him and his holyer thou attitude.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:44 am
a default would only occur if we did not pay the interest on the debt. The rest is rhetoric designed to sway soft minds.
While you may be correct in technical terms, there’s also the matter of not paying the OTHER bills we already agreed to, that are not already borrowed for.
Bottom line is we can’t just pay the interest on the debt and a few isolated bills and expect that we won’t be in serious economic trouble.
williebkind
January 15th, 2013
9:44 am
We can not get the economy booming because we will pollute the air, water, and create global warming! What we can do is spend money we do not have and hope our great grand children will come up with a solution to free themselves from this Obama burden. So let us spend! I want my free stuff.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:45 am
For the record, the “soft minds” are the ones buying the idea that we won’t default or that we can just easily avoid default by not paying some appropriations.
Paul
January 15th, 2013
9:46 am
td
“Oh now Jay. You progressives can not argue in one breath that the number of Federal employees have decreased and in the next breath say the creation of a Department is “massive expansion of government bureaucracy”. ”
Oh now td…. Fed bureaucracy = A+B. A=Homeland Security, say, 1/20 size of B (rest of federal bureaucracy). If reductions in B are less than A, then total federal bureaucracy has declined…..
“Which president insisted on passage of No Child Left Behind, a massive intrusion by the federal government into education, which had previously been largely a state and local matter?”
Yes, Bush wanted education accountability ”
So conservatives are okay with federal government intrusion into the states as long as it’s for purposes of accountability?
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
9:47 am
I am a FISCAL conservative – did not vote “W” or Obama ’cause they are FISCAL LIBERALS. IF you voted for big gub’ment – you got it. If you voted for SOCIALISM – you got it. If you voted for free checks in the mail – you got it. Congrats – the FISCAL CLIFF was created by YOU – and you got it!
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:47 am
DownInAlbany: Scream as loudly as you like…no one (that matters) is listening!
I take it this means we won’t be hearing from you again, since all this is useless and a waste of time, right?
williebkind
January 15th, 2013
9:47 am
Well, I read NY passed another sympathy law toward gun control. I sure hope those mentally ill and evil criminals got the message.
tiredofIT
January 15th, 2013
9:47 am
The goal of the GOP is to destroy our government so that they can privatize it and put their friends in charge. In other words, it is all about making money.
DannyX
January 15th, 2013
9:48 am
“Yes, Bush wanted education accountability and trusted Ted Kennedy. Huge mistake.”
td is at it again. No Child Left Behind got its start in Texas, Bush was a big cheerleader for the Texas law. It was his baby. Great classic deflection to Ted Kennedy!
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:49 am
Peadawg: Elections aren’t doing the trick. Enough of these life-long politicians.
Eliminate lobbyists and the revolving door first.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:49 am
Morality?: How is raising taxes going to solve the problem when 90% of the problem was and is spending.
Because spending isn’t actually 90% of the problem.
Tundra Dude
January 15th, 2013
9:49 am
JM:
Obama will go down as the president that drove America to bankruptcy and decline
As usual, Bush did it. That Slickmeister managed to postpone the IMF audit till after his watch.
In 2010 they pretty much declared us bankrupt, according to prof Kotikoff, former Reagan econ advisor.
IMF suggested we immediately double all our taxes, starting now, and lasting…..forever!
U.S. Is Bankrupt and We Don’t Even Know It
http://tinyurl.com/256mpp5
Welcome to the Occupation
January 15th, 2013
9:50 am
td: “Hurry up already Bookman… ”
Tough when you can’t change yourself yet, ain’t it?
DannyX
January 15th, 2013
9:51 am
“So let us spend! I want my free stuff.”
Lets see the math Willie. How do you fix the debt problems by getting rid of the “free stuff”?
Show us the money, Willie.
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
9:51 am
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:49 am
You may have shared this before but I’m not sure where you are coming from relative to spending versus revenue..
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:51 am
JHunt163: During FY 2011, the federal government spent $3.60 trillion on a budget or cash basis, up 4% vs. FY 2010 spending of $3.46 trillion and up 20% versus FY2008 spend of $2.97 trillion
If the cuts had not been made, the increase (from automatic appropriations and interest on the debt) would have increased much more than 4%.
You’re also forgetting that because of more tax revenue, the deficit has decreased.
harvey
January 15th, 2013
9:52 am
The comments are so idiotic. This government is going into more debt every day than it can sustain. Obama and the liberals refuse to cut entitlements, or to even curb their spending, hiring of more government employees, giving Congress raises and the like, and want to borrow even more money. This country can’t last long with this kind of thinking and with a population so determined to bankrupt it.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:52 am
RB: What’s the plan to stop the massive debt we’re piling up on our future generations?
Cut defense, find savings in Medicare that don’t reduce benefits, and raise taxes even more on the wealthy while cutting them more on the lower classes.
Paul
January 15th, 2013
9:53 am
Christian Conservative
from last night after I’d signed off:
“Repubs have passed a budget! Fact… Google it… They have tried to curtail spending to no avail. Jay, I mean Paul you should use Google more… Its your friend….”
I’ve asked before: what is this “Budget” you keep talking about? Is it a spending plan? Is that the same as an appropriations bill? Does it cover every department and appropriation in one big ‘thing’ (budget)? Is it something that happens before or after the various committees get it and make any changes? Does it count if only Republicans ‘pass’ it or do Democrats have to go along?
Just, what, exactly, is this ‘budget’ you keep going on about?
I’ve got to leave for the gym, but that’s okay as it may take you a bit to put down a description of how this ‘budget’ thingie Republicans pass fits into the federal budget process. Heck, for all I know, the Republican Budget may be a whole new thing that’s replace everything else! Including Article One!
So I look forward to learning something when I return.
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
9:53 am
Tundra Dude
January 15th, 2013
9:49 am
So are you suggesting BO’s legacy will forever be asterisked with comparison to Bush?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 15th, 2013
9:53 am
td — “Oh now Jay. You progressives can not argue in one breath that the number of Federal employees have decreased and in the next breath say the creation of a Department is “massive expansion of government bureaucracy”.
Someone’s been doing the Rip Van Winkle sleep and got their Administrations mixed up.
DHS was a *Bush* creation. You know how you have to stand in security lines now at the airport and get your bags x-rayed and swabbed for explosives? That’s all Bush.
Cutting government headcount — that’s Obama.
Clearly, you’ve become confuzzled and lost.
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
9:54 am
Falcons will find a way to get to the Super Bowl if my theory is correct. Politicians in Atlanta receive kick backs and tax payers get screwed – again. Blank gets his stadium at your expense and YOU get to the Super Bowl. A billion dollars of your tax money well spent? That’s gub’ment.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:54 am
Rob Portman: “The point is we need to adjust what bills we’re paying and how we’re paying them”
re·nege
/riˈneg/
Verb
Go back on a promise, undertaking, or contract.
curious
January 15th, 2013
9:54 am
Adam is right.
Lobbyists and the revolving door are the root causes of our financial woes.
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
9:55 am
“Cut defense, find savings in Medicare that don’t reduce benefits, and raise taxes even more on the wealthy while cutting them more on the lower classes.”
Good start but you have to put entitlements on the table, Adam. Medicaid, food stamps, etc. have to be included.
alex
January 15th, 2013
9:55 am
JAy, you used extremist—expand your vocab, more of the same biased rubbish that does nothing but entrench both sides….
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
9:56 am
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:52 am
Your last post answered my question. I agree but see no reason we can’t cut 20-25% out of defense…How anyone can justify that any security risk would be increased with cuts is an argument I’m dying to hear…
Transaction tax will go along way….too bad not spine in DC to push this…this approach will do little if anything to impact trading in the long run…
bucket
January 15th, 2013
9:57 am
BTW, to all of you who always want to silence opposition by saying, “What’s your plan?”, let me simply say this. First, my basic philosophy is you can’t spend more than what you’re taking in. I know that’s a radical idea for the politicians of today. However, my best answer to that question is that I’m not the one who needs a plan. I didn’t run for office or ask for the responsibility of governing. No one held a gun to any Washington politician’s head and made them run for their office. President Obama asked for the job. What’s his plan? I keep hearing him talk about a “balanced approach”, but all I hear is ideas to raise revenue and I haven’t heard any SPECIFICS for spending cuts. In fact, the last time the POTUS submitted a budget to the Congress it was laughed to scorn by politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle and the President’s budget was voted down 100-0 in the US Senate. His last budget actually contained about 7 trillion in additional spending (By 2021)! Go ahead and lay all the blame at the feet of the Republican lead House and President Bush. That’s fine, they’re easy targets. But the Senate (You know the chamber that hasn’t passed a budget in a few years!) and the White House are lead by Democrats and as President Obama used to believe, the buck stops @ 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue for leading this country.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:58 am
td: Oh now Jay. You progressives can not argue in one breath that the number of Federal employees have decreased and in the next breath say the creation of a Department is “massive expansion of government bureaucracy”.
When Bush created the agency which Kay is asking about, government employment was expanded. Private employment over the same period dwindled.
Under Obama, government employment has indeed dropped. Even in the Federal government, there has only been an increase of about 2400 over 4 years, last I checked. And you have to specifically EXCLUDE certain parts of the federal government to find a higher number.
So yes, he can simultaneously make the case, because we are talking about two different time periods.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
9:59 am
td: Yes, Bush wanted education accountability and trusted Ted Kennedy. Huge mistake
Evidence shows it was a bad idea. Now that we know that, we have presented better ideas on one side, while the other side has declared a failed idea on education means all public education should die.
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
10:00 am
Cut taxes on the lower classes even more? Where have you been? There aren’t any taxes on the lower classes.. food stamps don’t get taxed, subsidized housing doesn’t get taxed. You really ned to think before putting your mouth in gear or is that asking to much of an Obama voter?
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:00 am
“My paycheck was $126 less and I earn less than 400k. Who lied to me?”
Fox?
For misrepresenting SS withholding as the same as an income tax marginal rate increase?
THIS
DannyX
January 15th, 2013
10:01 am
“BTW, to all of you who always want to silence opposition by saying, “What’s your plan?”, let me simply say this.”
So Bucket, you have nothing, and the Republicans that want to shut down the government without a plan have nothing. Was that so hard to admit?
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
10:01 am
curious
January 15th, 2013
9:54 am
That is the root of our ills for sure. I have no expectation that anything but dysfunctional outcomes will come out of DC any time remotely soon resulting from a worsening dysfunctional process.
The idea that BO or any WH or Congress dope can or will make bold choices is non-existent.
Healthcare for example. One the surface, our government jumped in bed with their perceived arch enemy(s) to create a dysfunctional approach to making sure everyone has access. It’s about the money. In that respect, this adminstration is not different than any other despite with Obama Romantics suggest..
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:01 am
He’s like s child who lays in floor and cries until he gets his way.
That’s the House Elected Republicans you’re thinking of
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:03 am
Stevie Ray: You may have shared this before but I’m not sure where you are coming from relative to spending versus revenue..
We have a problem with both, and there are some sensible things we can do on both sides that cause no one any pain. The ratio changes every time we strike a deal. Currently, we have more spending cuts slated to go through than revenue increases, by a factor of roughly 4 to 1.
sam
January 15th, 2013
10:04 am
i like the house republicans, they make the rest of us look sane and intelligent
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:05 am
Peadawg: Good start but you have to put entitlements on the table, Adam. Medicaid, food stamps, etc. have to be included.
No they don’t. Least of all food stamps, which are less of our yearly expenses than the interest on the debt (according to 2011 numbers.) Interest 6%, Food stamps 2.5%. Medicaid? 7%
Those things don’t also need to be on the table.
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
10:05 am
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
9:55 am
So how much more do you suppose taxing the wealthy can produce? There exists a point of diminishing, if not regressive results. Look what’s happening in France with CEO’s writing to the head socialist dude that they can no longer face payroll expense that is jacked up to ridiculous heights..the “weathy” in France are also moving out of the country at and increased rate..
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:05 am
Peadawg: Besides, if we address the economic issues and the economy grows, food stamps and medicaid expenses fall automatically.
They DON’T also need to be on the table.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:06 am
Stevie Ray: How anyone can justify that any security risk would be increased with cuts is an argument I’m dying to hear
Well, they have sort of yelled about it but only assert that it will cause security issues, without backing it up.
Granny Godzilla
January 15th, 2013
10:07 am
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
9:55 am
“Cut defense, find savings in Medicare that don’t reduce benefits, and raise taxes even more on the wealthy while cutting them more on the lower classes.”
Good start but you have to put entitlements on the table, Adam. Medicaid, food stamps, etc. have to be included.
.
.
.
.
AS we have already cut 2.4 trillion and our raising revenues 620 billion, perhaps instead of talking about “entitlement” cuts for the middle class we should first address “entitlement” cuts for the corporate class.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:07 am
Morality?: Cut taxes on the lower classes even more? Where have you been? There aren’t any taxes on the lower classes..
Reintroduce the payroll tax cut, for the current cap, raise the cap, and make it permanent.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:09 am
Stevie Ray: Look what’s happening in France with CEO’s writing to the head socialist dude that they can no longer face payroll expense that is jacked up to ridiculous heights.
Would that be the same guy who later walked back comments that he would renounce his citizenship and move to Belgium, partly because Belgium said they wouldn’t give him citizenship?
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
10:09 am
Get rid of the lobbyists? How about this – ban ANY former Fed Gub’ment Senator or Rep of the House from becoming a lobbyists. That would cut the number of lobbyists in D.C. in half right there. These gub’ment polticians are double dipping at the hawg trough. One term in office gets you perks for life such as free health care and a fat pension. While you are in office you gain contacts and influence. When you get out you become a D.C. lobbyist and you get payoffs and kick backs from both sides – and give payoffs and kick backs to both sides – sweet! By the way Jammy Codder don’t live in PLAINS – when he got out of office he went straight to D.C. and resides there to this day.
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:09 am
“No they don’t.” – I thought you were about people “paying their fair share”? Guess not. Like the Democrats who were tweeting last week about the 2% payroll tax increase…it’s all good as long as it’s someone else.
“So how much more do you suppose taxing the wealthy can produce? ” – I’m not sure on that one. But the fact that businesses are recording record profits “even though taxes are way to high” tells me that they either need to start hiring or pay more taxes. Stop sitting on the money and feeding the fat greedy CEOs.
Brosephus™
January 15th, 2013
10:10 am
Paul @ 9:53
The GOP passed the Ryan Budget plan that supposedly brings a balanced budget in about 30 – 40 years. That same vote also acknowledged the debt limit would exceed $23T at some point. The fact that any Republican that voted for or supports Ryan’s plan can talk about not voting for a debt limit increase with a straight face shows they are great liars or they honestly don’t have a clue about their tasks in D.C.
bucket
January 15th, 2013
10:11 am
@ DannyX – I could come up with a lot if I had asked for the job. If you are spending more than you are taking in then you have to do one of 2 things or both: make more money or spend less money. It’s not really that difficult to figure out. So why don’t you detail for us what President Obama is going to do about the problem other than wrapping himself in the cloak of victim status?
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:12 am
“AS we have already cut 2.4 trillion and our raising revenues 620 billion” – Yet here we are with still increasing debt and deficits.
““entitlement” cuts for the corporate class.”
Add that in too, Granny. Pork, subsidies, etc…include those also. When it comes to cuts, NOTHING should be off the table. NOTHING
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:12 am
Morality?: How about this – ban ANY former Fed Gub’ment Senator or Rep of the House from becoming a lobbyists. That would cut the number of lobbyists in D.C. in half right there.
That would be the revolving door I was talking about
JamVet
January 15th, 2013
10:13 am
If you voted OBAMA…
I LOVE this one! (And I didn’t,either time.)
Especially as it ALWAYS comes from some rube who voted for the (W)orst Ever.
Twice.
Epic fail…
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
10:13 am
ADAM
I feel strongly that the spending cuts are nothing more than fiction, similar to those suggested in the past by this guy. Any proposed cuts are in the form of assumed reduction in future spending. Despite all of this, you can see by the attached that spending has increased and will continue to increase…I don’t recall a time when we successfully made cuts as promised. Increased taxes are difficult to undo…future reductions in spending are easy to undo..
IMO, to put any credence in suggested “cuts” is potentially a disasterous assumption..
http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/14/spending-cuts-are-mostly-fiction
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:13 am
Peadawg: I thought you were about people “paying their fair share”? Guess not. Like the Democrats who were tweeting last week about the 2% payroll tax increase…it’s all good as long as it’s someone else.
I take it you aren’t even going to address my REASONS and instead just paint the whole thing as me being intransigent.
I backed up my reasoning. Be intellectually honest and address it.
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
10:14 am
Someone on here has definite SOCIALIST leanings and their I.D. starts with an “A”. You are one of those Obama’s that wants to “Frenchanize” America. A Greek Republic – even better perhaps?
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:15 am
Stevie Ray: Increased taxes are difficult to undo…future reductions in spending are easy to undo..
All it takes at this point is the House Elected Republicans (hi Fred!) not deciding to posture on this by making spending cuts they are just going to overturn later, like the sequester.
Atlanta1
January 15th, 2013
10:15 am
“The fact that we are here here today to debate raising America’s debate limit is a leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government cannot pay it’s own bills.”
“To even entertain not raising the debt ceiling of the United States of America not paying it’s bills is irresponsible. It’s absurb.”
The authors? Same author. Senator Obama in 2006 and President Obama in 2013.
Enough said…
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
10:16 am
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:12 am
Cuts? Please. This congress and WH are all hat and not cattle. Cuts will never come to fruition if the most recent past is a predictor of the near future…on what are you resting you laurels?
Welcome to the Occupation
January 15th, 2013
10:16 am
harvey: Do you just have trouble keeping up, or is there some reason you let other people do your thinking for you?
What you said is flat stupid.
“This government is going into more debt every day than it can sustain. Obama and the liberals refuse to cut entitlements”
Haven’t you been paying attention, my good little rube?
Under Obama discretionary government spending will have been slashed to its lowest level since the Eisenhower administration. Get a clue friend.
” hiring of more government employees”
This one’s an even bigger howler than the other one.
Under Obama government employees have plummeted.
Did that rock your world?
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:16 am
“I backed up my reasoning.” – With a pretty big assumption. That’s why I didn’t address it.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:17 am
Atlanta1: The authors? Same author. Senator Obama in 2006 and President Obama in 2013.
Enough said…
AGAIN!!!
From the VERY FIRST PAGE:
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2013/01/14/house-gop-still-hellbent-on-debt-ceiling-showdown/?cp=1#comment-1201071
From that bastion of liberalism, The Examiner:
http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-admits-his-2006-debt-ceiling-vote-was-a-mistake-video
President Obama admits his 2006 debt ceiling vote was a mistake (Video)
After helping negotiate a key compromise to help avert a government shutdown last week, the Obama administration is now moving on to the impending debt ceiling issue. However, the Obama administration is running into some early resistance from Republicans who are demanding more concessions before agreeing to raise the debt limit. Some conservatives have noted that then-Senator Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006 to bolster their argument. In an interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC President Obama admitted that his 2006 vote was a mistake, and that it was motivated by politics rather than what was best for the country at the time.
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:18 am
“This congress and WH are all hat and not cattle.”
As many times as the can has been kicked down the road, I’m finally starting to believe that.
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
10:20 am
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:15 am
I don’t see that the alledged cuts can’t be amended, tied to growth assumptions that don’t come to fruition, or simply evaporate for political gain reasons…..My money is on them either never coming to fruition or simply being offset materially by continued trend of increase spending…
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:20 am
“President Obama admits his 2006 debt ceiling vote was a mistake ” – Of course he does not that he needs it done under his watch.
That’s like apologizing for cheating. No, you’re just sorry you got caught.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:20 am
Peadawg: With a pretty big assumption. That’s why I didn’t address it.
Citing that food stamps and medicaid expenditures decrease with economic growth, and that their current levels are small, is not “an assumption.”
You’re not being intellectually honest. You’re painting my position as intransigent. Unless you can show me that I am somehow incorrect in those assessments, both of them, then you are just making up a reason to be against what I said.
Medicaid doesn’t need to be on the table. It was 7% of the 2011 expenditures.
Interest on the debt was 6% of our 2011 expenditures
Food stamps were 2.5% of our 2011 expenditures, and that’s pretty much at its height.
indigo
January 15th, 2013
10:21 am
morality – 8:58
It’s an odd thing.
No liberal I know says they “worship Obama”.
No liberal I know expects the Govt. to save them.
Ever heard of Freud and envy?
I think you have Obama envy.
Thomas
January 15th, 2013
10:21 am
Good start but you have to put entitlements on the table, Adam. Medicaid, food stamps, etc. have to be included.
Let’s do it as we are in a self fulfilling prophesy economic paradigm. The more gov’t tries to help it simply invokes an inevitable downward spiral. We took a giant immodium pill 4 years ago with an overreaching fed and we continue to suffer through govt’s continued attempt to “stimulate”. Personally I would rather be stimulated by a scorpion that drunken fools in DC that make Enron financials look pristine. This nation is very blessed and we have a tremendous # of churches and non profits- let’s get out of the “never let a crisis go to waste”
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:22 am
Stevie Ray: tied to growth assumptions that don’t come to fruition
I will agree that if you simply assume growth and put that into a calculation formula then its BS. That’s not the same as saying that when growth happens, Medicaid and Food stamp expenditures drop, however. It’s not assuming growth will happen, it’s stating how those expenditures work.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 15th, 2013
10:22 am
Morality? : “Obama’s that wants to “Frenchanize” America”
That would be “Frenchify” actually, but hey who’s quibbling.
Now if what you think is that:
A) Obama has anything even the slightest bit “socialist” about him; or,
B) That there’s anything even the slightest bit “left” about people who actually do go by the name of “socialists”, such as – oh I don’t know – let’s say the current president of France, who just this week launched yet another military operation in Africa; or,
C) That the predicament of Greece has anything at all to do with “overspending”, let alone socialist tendencies, then…..
Well what can I say, you’re probably a rube and not very well informed about what’s actually going on.
Morality?
January 15th, 2013
10:24 am
Obama ain’t like you. He’’s got four mansions in four different states staffed with servants (gardeners, housekeepers, etc.) He’s part of the EVIL rich that you SO despise. NO “plan” is going to work – to late. Go over the FISCAL CLIFF now – three months – it’s going to happen THIS YEAR.
Stevie Ray
January 15th, 2013
10:24 am
Brosephus™
January 15th, 2013
10:10 am
Agreed but we are trending to hit 23 trillion in a few short years relative to the time you are suggesting. Additionally, the projections that are relied on the make “legitimate” the best case scenario political outcomes, have zero built in hedge…
What if something comes up…say another endeavor involving our armed services in another country based on another terror attack on our shores? Or more likely, that growth remains at a paltry average 2%?
Can’t anticipate these things….but we are financially much more vulnerable and are getting more so by the minute..
TaxPayer
January 15th, 2013
10:24 am
President Obama is waiting to sign that bill that raises the debt ceiling so seniors can get their social security and medicare and federal employees can get their checks and government contractors can get paid and so interest on the debt can be paid. Congress has to produce the bill and that means the Republicans will have to compromise with the Democrats. Who will the citizens of the US blame if this does not happen. Will they blame Obama? The Democrats? The Republicans? Will we have to wait until 2014 to find out? Perhaps so. Anyone have any unskewed polling results to give us a heads up.
Peadawg
January 15th, 2013
10:25 am
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:20 am
We’ll agree to disagree, then, on everybody/everything paying their fair share and getting cut to help the debt.
Adam
January 15th, 2013
10:25 am
Morality?: He’s part of the EVIL rich that you SO despise.
Cite any left wing person who said the rich were evil please.