House GOP still hellbent on debt-ceiling showdown
The juxtaposition here is telling.
First, from Politico, an explanation of how House Republicans and their leaders are approaching the issue of a looming showdown over the debt ceiling:
“I think it is possible that we would shut down the government to make sure President Obama understands that we’re serious,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington state told us. “We always talk about whether or not we’re going to kick the can down the road. I think the mood is that we’ve come to the end of the road.”
Republican leadership officials, in a series of private meetings and conversations this past week, warned that the White House, much less the broader public, doesn’t understand how hard it will be to talk restive conservatives off the fiscal ledge. To the vast majority of House Republicans, it is far riskier long term to pile up new debt than it is to test the market and economic reaction of default or closing down the government.
GOP officials said more than half of their members are prepared to allow default unless Obama agrees to dramatic cuts he has repeatedly said he opposes. Many more members, including some party leaders, are prepared to shut down the government to make their point. House Speaker John Boehner “may need a shutdown just to get it out of their system,” said a top GOP leadership adviser. “We might need to do that for member-management purposes — so they have an endgame and can show their constituents they’re fighting.”
That’s right: By the admission of top GOP officials, internal party “member-management purposes” may require them to force a shutdown of the U.S. government. Furthermore, House Republicans are out of the speaker’s control and even more intransigent than understood by the White House and the general public, which already believes them to be extremist.
Now contrast that with President Obama’s statements today at a White House press conference to close his first four-year term:
“America cannot afford another debate with this Congress about whether or not they should pay the bills they’ve already racked up. If congressional Republicans refuse to pay America’s bills on time, Social Security checks, and veterans benefits will be delayed.
We might not be able to pay our troops, or honor our contracts with small business owners. Food inspectors, air traffic controllers, specialists who track down loose nuclear materials wouldn’t get their paychecks. Investors around the world will ask if the United States of America is in fact a safe bet. Markets could go haywire, interest rates would spike for anybody who borrows money. Every homeowner with a mortgage, every student with a college loan, every small business owner who wants to grow and hire.
It would be a self-inflicted wound on the economy. It would slow down our growth, might tip us into recession. And ironically it would probably increase our deficit. So to even entertain the idea of this happening, of the United States of America not paying its bills, is irresponsible. It’s absurd….
Republicans in Congress have two choices here. They can act responsibly, and pay America’s bills, or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The financial well-being of the American people is not leverage to be used. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip.”
In the weeks ahead, the American people will have to decide which of those two narratives they find more appealing, patriotic and rational. But the GOP has already made its choice. They continue to insist, publicly and apparently in private conversations among themselves, that it’s “damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead” toward a government shutdown. Having whipped themselves into a fervor, convinced of the holiness of their mission, they will not be dissuaded from carrying it out.
The rest of us are just along for the ride.
– Jay Bookman
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1,012 comments Add your comment
curious
January 14th, 2013
4:28 pm
Christian Conservative
“Why can’t Oblama seem to find any qualified women to work in his administration???”
After seeing the others get trashed by the Republicans, they decline the opportunity.
Mr Right
January 14th, 2013
4:28 pm
Did not Senator Obama vote against raising debt limit ? So why is the GOP now the ones that are so far out?
Regnad Kcin
January 14th, 2013
4:29 pm
“If we do not raise the debt limit, all our bills will be paid first so the notion that we will default on our debt is simply not true.’
Where does this meme come from?
captguitarman
January 14th, 2013
4:29 pm
It will be a serious mistake by the Pub/Cons to shut down the government. They will get the blame if they do, and it will further harm their chances to make a come back. It is not fair or right, but it is the realpolitik of the moment, but as we have seen, politics can change quickly (e.g. 2010 elections vs. 2012 elections). And all the Dem/Lib wishful thinking about how things have changed in their favor for good will turn out to be just that when these spending policies finally catch up with us and the economy falters in much scarier ways than it did in 2008.
Pub/Cons, if you have faith in your convictions that these policies will ultimately lead the United States to economic ruin, then get to work and create and propose some serious structural spending cuts, and when they will kick in, and how they will work to bring back some sanity and stabilize our economy, and save the entitlement programs for future generations. Present your plans loudly and clearly and market them. Ask the president and the Dem/Libs for input, feedback, counterproposals, etc. Try to start a serious debate on the subject and do it with reasonable and well thought out ideas.
The Prez will come back and say that he will only negotiate with more new taxes in place, conveniently forgetting that there were new taxes and no cuts in the fiscal cliff deal. His definition of “balance” is now very clear. Press on, but don’t agree to the taxes . . . that is if you truly believe that we have a spending problem and not a revenue problem. If you do believe it, start acting like it, and get serious, and forget this nonsense about the capping the debt ceiling and shutting down the government. Make it clear that you will work with the Dem/Libs to agree and compromise on spending cuts, but no new new taxes.
Don’t mess up your chances for 2014 and controlling the entire Congress. These awful policies will ultimately catch up with us. There will be two more trillion, almost three trillion more in debt by 2014. Plus, all of the backloaded costs of Obamacare will kick in January of 2014. When the ca-ca finally hits the fan, you will be well positioned with solutions that never got the time of day from the Prez or the Dem/Libs.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
4:30 pm
JHunt — “Or as the left would say, tell her to get a second job because you need more revenue to pay for that brand new sports car”
Afraid of a second job, are you?
I worked *three* jobs — plus collected GI Bill benefits — to put myself through graduate school.
Some of us aren’t afraid of hard work to get what we want. Can’t speak for you, though.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
4:30 pm
Even the so-called “intellectuals” have become mindless followers of their master. Of course it is easy to indoctrinate the weak, isn’t it?
The smoking gun is the mushroom cloud.
pogo
January 14th, 2013
4:32 pm
If I just try indigo!!!!!!
Besides, who in the hell are you to tell anybody to do anything? Just another faceless, lonely person trying to be recognized for something. That kind of makes you pitiful, doesn’t it?
Get Real
January 14th, 2013
4:32 pm
Regnad Kcin
Basic facts, you need to start thinking for yourself…
jconservative
January 14th, 2013
4:33 pm
Every penny of US debt was approved by the US Congress. Every penny of US revenue was authorized by the US Congress. Congress does not have a problem with the White House. The President will sign any bill that passes the House and passes the Senate with 60 votes. Congress’s only problem is Congress.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
4:34 pm
ogop — “Just another faceless, lonely person trying to be recognized for something. That kind of makes you pitiful, doesn’t it?”
The irony, it do get thick in here at times, it do.
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:35 pm
Even if the det ceiling is not raiseddd,the obligaions and debts are still teir,with interst added on. And will have tobe paid eventually. e.g Social security payments are still their plus interst for late payments,etc.
DannyX
January 14th, 2013
4:35 pm
“Or as the left would say, tell her to get a second job because you need more revenue to pay for that brand new sports car”
What a joke. Republicans are the ones that bought the brand new sports car and now don’t want to pay for it. $1.5 trillion in unfunded wars, ’socialist’ Medicare part D. Massive spending combined with massive tax breaks are a big reason we are in this mess. Suddenly Republicans like Paul Ryan who voted for all those goodies are now experts?
Republicans also gave us the Great Bush Recession! The cherry on the poop sandwich!
Of course Republicans freak out if anyone brings up their dismal record. The Republican sports car is sitting in the junk yard, totaled, they crashed while driving it drunk. Now they want the keys back, problem is they are still drunk.
GT
January 14th, 2013
4:38 pm
To me this kind of goes in the same category as going AWOL from the service. You have made a voluntary obligation to your country, and now you have the police after you because you have decided to go back on your legal obligations and not serve you country. You may be against war or whatever it is this week with the tea party, but you have picked the wrong venue to express you freedom. The president has the right and obligation to protect the country by executive order if necessary, and the Congress should be held in contempt ,if not the same as we would hold a soldier who leaves his post.
GT
January 14th, 2013
4:39 pm
Not the army but the soldier, not the Congress but the congressman.
DownInAlbany
January 14th, 2013
4:40 pm
The republicans say, “NO, the United States should NOT pay it’s bills
Link please
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:40 pm
Militay and other govt employees will have to be paid. Medicare dets will still pile up with interst. Rent and maintainace on govt buildings will continue.
Interst on exixting debt will still add up.
Farm support rpayments will still add up.
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
4:41 pm
td
January 14th, 2013
3:25 pm
And said budget has been voted down the past two years by every Republican and EVERY Democrat in Congress.
______________________________
It doesn’t say that the president must submit a budget *THAT WILL PASS*.
Simply submit a budgat.
See the diff?
Buzz Belle
January 14th, 2013
4:42 pm
I wish we had single payer and gone over the fiscal cliff. I’m getting tired of all this back and forth. It’s like one group sits and waits behind a barracade until they can come up with another reason to fight the President. In the meantime, we, the people, suffer. This is beyond ridiculous and we call ourselves the greatest country in the world? We are the biggest joke now. Elections have consequences people. Get smart!
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:42 pm
70 pr centt off the budget is fixed by law. Those monies will still be owed plua more interest. What’s the point?
DownInAlbany
January 14th, 2013
4:44 pm
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
4:41 pm
It doesn’t say that the president must submit a budget *THAT WILL PASS*.
Simply submit a budgat.
See the diff?
Split hairs much?
Mr Right
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
the 2nd amendment was not meant to be for deer hunting it was for the Citizens of this country to be able to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. The second amendment is the law. He refers to socialist or communist cells killing people. Here are some statistics. Gun control In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews… and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated .
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million ‘educated’ people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent. Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent. Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months,since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in “successfully ridding Australian society of guns.” The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
You won’t see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans…..before it’s too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history
With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
Albany – where does it say that?
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
Albany – where does it say that?
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
Albany – where does it say that?
TM
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
Why do we need to raise the debt limit didn’t Obama just sign a $600 billion tax increase?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
DIA — “Split hairs much?”
Dude, not to be snarky, but what do you think lawyers DO for a living?
Put 435 of ‘em in a room, and what do you expect them to do?
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
4:48 pm
in the event of a “shutdown” who is affected?
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20051318-503544.html
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:48 pm
TM – checks are still in the mail
pogo
January 14th, 2013
4:49 pm
One always knows that they have hit home with a post when out of the blue the poster is attacked by another blogger with whom they previously had no interaction (such as “indigo’”) who offers some childish and quite frankly sad attack as a rebuttal. “Home schooled”. Oh I don’t don’t think so, Dorothy. Public schooled all the way. Of course I was schooled when teachers were really teachers and not some kind of pseudo-psychiatrists whose only goal is to make sure that their students self-esteem is intact, never mind how ignorant they are.
DownInAlbany
January 14th, 2013
4:49 pm
Oscar:
Where does it say what?
Where does it say what?
Where does it say what?
pogo
January 14th, 2013
4:50 pm
“ogop” Joe? Hum, you may be on to something there man.
GT
January 14th, 2013
4:51 pm
I wish we had not bailed out the banks, let nature run its course. The whole budget problem for Obama started when Bush decided to save the dysfunctional and systemic Wall Street. We need to go back to prosecuting business monopolies like Clinton was doing in his term. Too big to fail is unconstitutional and was allowed under the Bush administration as a green light to business. A competitive market would cure America.
pogo
January 14th, 2013
4:52 pm
And Joe, I spend about 30 minutes per week (if that) on here. How many do you spend old boy?
Orange13
January 14th, 2013
4:52 pm
“$1.5 trillion in unfunded wars”
Is there a such thing as a funded war? If so, please give examples.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
4:53 pm
Too big to fail is unconstitutional and was allowed under the Bush administration as a green light to business.
Also under the Clinton Administration.
See: Long Term Capital Management.
Fred ™
January 14th, 2013
4:53 pm
SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give those complete utter morons EXACTLY what they want. Let the Rush Limbaugh/talk radio/FOXBOT idiots pay for the consequences of their stupidity and actions.
Let’s see how many of these idiots continue listening to the ‘47 percent” crap when THYE have no freaking money and have plenty of time listening to Rush and Sean talking about how good THEY have it and how everyone should go to Ruth’s Chris and Solomon Bros………..
COME ON YOU REPUBLICANS, SING IT WITH ME:
The Roof, The Roof, The roof is on fire.
We don’t need no water let MF’er burn.
Burn MF’er burn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WI0GxwyD0I
mbtc
January 14th, 2013
4:53 pm
“straitroad
January 14th, 2013
4:09 pm
What’s even more alarming is the manner in which Obama’s supporters are increasingly becoming blindly loyal and do not question anything he does.”
Perhaps if republicans hadn’t stated their goal at the beginning of his first term to take him down, and the right wing scream machine hadn’t tried to destroy him since day one, democrats wouldn’t feel the need to defend him. Read the bible about the boy who cried wolf.
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:54 pm
Albany – didn’t think you knew. I was right.
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
4:55 pm
ByteMe – Got ilk?
January 14th, 2013
3:29 pm
At what level of total debt and annual interest expense do we endure before you get nervous Adam?
Long before Cheney said “Deficits don’t matter”.
________________________________________
When ever Obama says something, i.e. “You didn’t build that”, some on the left spin around on their eyebrows yelling “OMG, GIVE THE FULL QUOTE! WHAT WAS THE CONTEXT?”
So please tell me why the “…deficits don’t matter…” get the same treatment?
“You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.” = He was clearly talking about deficits not mattering during an election. That the deficit would not keep a president from being elected. AND Obama’s reelection proved him right.
Sauce for the goose and all that…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
4:56 pm
Read the bible about the boy who cried wolf.
Aesop fable, not the bible.
DownInAlbany
January 14th, 2013
4:58 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
4:46 pm
DIA — “Split hairs much?”
Dude, not to be snarky, but what do you think lawyers DO for a living?
Aw, heck, Joe, if you can’t take snarky, better stay off this blog, huh?
Put 435 of ‘em in a room, and what do you expect them to do?
Cannabalism comes to mind!
Joe, it’s often frustrating when folks want to be so dang literal with every tit and tittle. For example, Obama submitting a budget to Congress that didn’t have a snow-balls chance of passing may fill the letter of the law, but, no one should say that it fulfills the intent.
Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer and others threatened to defeat the debt ceiling legislature in 2009 (?). But, now the pubs are going to shutdown the gov’t in this episode. All have seen O’s historical comments re: the debt ceiling. The fact is, pubs, dems, libs, cons…all they are working for is the next election cycle. Plain and simple. (que the snarky, “simple-minded” comments….in 3, 2, 1).
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 14th, 2013
4:59 pm
pogo
January 14th, 2013
4:27 pm
Nothing, absolutely nothing could be more true…..it’s red sheep vs blue sheep…not a lot of individual thinking here eh?
Atlas Shrugging
January 14th, 2013
5:00 pm
If the Lord and Savior of the underachievers says that we must increase our debt limit so we can pay for all he has promisesd to his worthless 51 percent then I say let’s shut this runaway government down.
Fred ™
January 14th, 2013
5:00 pm
Sauce for the goose and all that…
What kind of sauce DO you use for a goose anyway? I wanted to do one for Thanksgiving or Christmas but holy poop on a stick, them things be EXPENSIVE. It was like sixty bucks for a little bitty bird……….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
5:01 pm
…..it’s red sheep vs blue sheep…not a lot of individual thinking here eh?
Dude who constantly posts “president trillions” says, “What?”
Bob
January 14th, 2013
5:01 pm
“The fact that we’re here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means ‘The buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.” The speaker: Then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., back in 2006
But Obama voted against lifting the debt limit for all the right reasons, repubs will vote against it for all the wrong reasons, dems good, repubs bad !
The GOV
January 14th, 2013
5:02 pm
Everyone should read the part of the bible about “Joe the Plumber”. It’s right before “Joe Six Pack”.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 14th, 2013
5:02 pm
mbtc
January 14th, 2013
4:53 pm
Please save us the not our fault crap. What is wrong with the GOP publicly stating the objective of every other minority or non-white house holding DEM or GOP? Because they said it? To think that it is not the stated objective by one party to destroy the other at all costs is naive…
Fred ™
January 14th, 2013
5:03 pm
Atlas Shrugging
January 14th, 2013
5:00 pm
If the Lord and Savior of the underachievers says that we must increase our debt limit so we can pay for all he has promisesd to his worthless 51 percent then I say let’s shut this runaway government down.
+++++++++++++++++++++
So whomexactly IS this Lord and Savior you worshipers of the amped up METH HO AYN RAND keep referring to? I mean we all no the youy love drug addicts like Rush and Ayn.
Now for the rest of us? I’m partial to Jesus, we have several Jews so Yahweh would be their choice. Others are atheists so they believe themselves to be lord an savior.
I know Sean and Rush worship Obama and call him God. Whom are you referring to?
td
January 14th, 2013
5:04 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
4:15 pm
td — “The Republicans passed a budget and am still waiting on the Dems in the Senate to take up their budget and offer amendments to the budget and then negotiating happens. The Republicans have passed all their appropriations bills in the House and the Dems in the Senate has not taken them up. The Republicans have done their job and it is the Dems in the Senate that refuse to do their job.”
“Just FYI, Congressional Republicans don’t get to drive the train on the national budget. They can make up all the bulldada budgets they want, but they can’t force the President or Congressional Democrats to go along with them.”
You are partially right about that the Dems do not have to go along with the budget but it ONLY the house that can write a spending bill (that in essence a budget). Regular order says that the house produces a budget and appropriations bills and then the Senate adds amendments to those bills to change them and then the house accepts the changes or calls for a conference committee to work out the differences.
If you think that the presence of some bulldada GOP budget establishes some sort of imperative for the President and the rest of Congress to act, then I suggest that you bring home a brand-new sports car tonight and tell your wife that the household budget is now being cut in order to conform to the priorities you have determined for the household.
Then the choice is to shut down the government or negotiate the differences.
“Those are the facts and can not be disputed.
“DISPUTED. (pointing, laughing)
”
Just because you dispute something does not mean it is not factual information. Read the Constitution and tell your Dem friends in the Senate to get off their butts and take up the House bills and either change them or reject them.
Jefferson
January 14th, 2013
5:05 pm
More like Mr Chicken…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
5:05 pm
To think that it is not the stated objective by one party to destroy the other at all costs is naive…
And there’s your sign.
Big.
Bright.
Pink.
Neon.
Sign.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 14th, 2013
5:06 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
4:53 pm
Congress had a glowing chance to eliminate too big to fail but instead, screwed us and passed a crap Dodd Frank rag that guaranteed we’d always be there to be a safety net to businesses and individuals alike…
Sad state of affairs..
Bob
January 14th, 2013
5:06 pm
Why is Obama scaring old people about social security ? Why not pay social security out of the trust fund ? Some right winger, probably a ea party member, tried to tell me that the trust fund was spent, what an anti-government fool, everybody knows our government would never spend something they called a “trust” fund.
GT
January 14th, 2013
5:06 pm
Clinton had cases against many of the monopolies in his term and they were cases either settled or dropped by Bush. One was against Microsoft tying new companies Gates had brought or created into the Windows packaging and charging for it.
td
January 14th, 2013
5:07 pm
GT
January 14th, 2013
4:51 pm
I wish we had not bailed out the banks, let nature run its course. The whole budget problem for Obama started when Bush decided to save the dysfunctional and systemic Wall Street.
The banks paid back the money to the government.
pogo
January 14th, 2013
5:08 pm
OK Fred. Let it burn. It can happen now or it WILL happen a little later so I guess it really doesn’t matter, does it? Of course to those that statistically may not be around because of their advanced age, if it burns later I guess it doesn’t matter as much to them, does it? And that is what most of them are hoping for. That is the hypocrisy in all of this. The old liberals don’t care because they are hoping that the government will keep funneling endless amounts of money to maintain their status quo (until their demise) and the young are too stupid to know that the old peoples greed and the increasing numbers of entitlement loving citizens are about to doom any hopes that they (the young) have for a decent future. It is very easy to see how Obama won the election. Greed and stupidity.
DownInAlbany
January 14th, 2013
5:08 pm
Oscar
January 14th, 2013
4:54 pm
Albany – didn’t think you knew. I was right
Oscar, I’d be glad to try and answer your question…if I knew what the hell the question was! sheesh
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 14th, 2013
5:08 pm
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
5:05 pm
I agree…you are naive to think otherwise…especially over the past decade or so as the polarization has widened. If you think the DEMs wouldn’t do anything to get Bush out of office I have no response to that…You did witness the lengths both parties went to to keep each other from winning the WH…lies, name calling and progressively competitive lies…
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
5:09 pm
ogop — “And Joe, I spend about 30 minutes per week (if that) on here. How many do you spend old boy?”
Oh, it’s the you-spend-more-time-on-here-than-I-do-so-you-must-not-do-anything-productive gambit!
Never seen THAT on the internet before.
td
January 14th, 2013
5:11 pm
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
4:41 pm
td
January 14th, 2013
3:25 pm
And said budget has been voted down the past two years by every Republican and EVERY Democrat in Congress.
______________________________
It doesn’t say that the president must submit a budget *THAT WILL PASS*.
Simply submit a budgat.
See the diff?
Totally understand the difference. Obama was not serious about submitting an actual budget that would be taken seriously by his own party. Where is the Senate budget? Why is it that the only responsible party is the Republicans in the house that actually wrote and passed a budget? Why will the Senate not take up said budget?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
5:12 pm
Fred — “What kind of sauce DO you use for a goose anyway?”
I’d go with either some sort of fruit glaze, like cherries or cranberries, or else roast that sucker with frequent white wine basting.
Jay
January 14th, 2013
5:12 pm
“Is there a such thing as a funded war? If so, please give examples.
Absolutely there is such a thing. Almost every war in our history has been funded by a tax increase. The War of 1812 was funded in part by a new sales tax on luxury items such as gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. The first income tax in this country was passed to fund the Civil War. In 1917, the War Revenue Act increased taxes to pay for WWI. Taxes were raised significantly to pay for WWII, the Korean War and Vietnam.
The only time in our history in which taxes were cut in time of war was under George W. Bush, who was fighting two expensive wars simultaneously.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
5:13 pm
If you think the DEMs wouldn’t do anything to get Bush out of office I have no response to that…
Moving the goalposts.
“Get Bush out of office” does not equal “one party to destroy the other at all costs”
Someone else got the Capt. Picard goalposts with warp-drive for xmas.
Fred ™
January 14th, 2013
5:13 pm
pogo
January 14th, 2013
5:08 pm
OK Fred. Let it burn. It can happen now or it WILL happen a little later so I guess it really doesn’t matter, does it? Of course to those that statistically may not be around because of their advanced age, if it burns later I guess it doesn’t matter as much to them, does it? And that is what most of them are hoping for. That is the hypocrisy in all of this. The old liberals don’t care because they are hoping that the government will keep funneling endless amounts of money to maintain their status quo (until their demise) and the young are too stupid to know that the old peoples greed and the increasing numbers of entitlement loving citizens are about to doom any hopes that they (the young) have for a decent future. It is very easy to see how Obama won the election. Greed and stupidity.
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Naw. Obama won the election because the American public is smart enpough to see through those stupid assed right wing talk radio lies.
YOU LOST!!!!!!! YOU STILL CONTINUE TO LOSE WITH THOSE SILLY LIES THAT ONLY FOXBOT/TALK RADIO MORONS BELIEVE.
Next……..
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
5:16 pm
td — “You are partially right about that the Dems do not have to go along with the budget but it ONLY the house that can write a spending bill (that in essence a budget).”
Sure. But that doesn’t mean that the opposition party gets to dream up a budget from whole cloth and then demand that the President sign off on it.
“Regular order says that the house produces a budget and appropriations bills and then the Senate adds amendments to those bills to change them and then the house accepts the changes or calls for a conference committee to work out the differences.”
I’m aware of that.
“Then the choice is to shut down the government or negotiate the differences.”
So you’re saying that if the GOP dreams up a budget from whole cloth and the President says no, then the only choice is a shutdown?
“Just because you dispute something does not mean it is not factual information.”
Just because you *claim* something is factual and indisputable does not mean that it is so.
“Read the Constitution”
Read it yourself. I used to *teach* Con Law at the college level.
“and tell your Dem friends in the Senate to get off their butts and take up the House bills and either change them or reject them.”
Only if you’ll tell your Con pals in the House to think of the country rather than their re-election chances.
Orange13
January 14th, 2013
5:16 pm
Thanks Jay
Jay
January 14th, 2013
5:17 pm
“Why is it that the only responsible party is the Republicans in the house that actually wrote and passed a budget?”
You seem to be proposing that one test of a responsible budget is that it has a chance of passage. Well, the Paul Ryan “budget” that that House Republicans passed had absolutely no chance of becoming law, and the GOP knew it. It was a show budget, nothing more, crammed with every Republican ideological fantasy right down to the total elimination of the estate tax and conversion of Medicare to a private voucher.
In fact, I bet half the Republican caucus would have voted against it if they thought it had any chance of passing.
indigo
January 14th, 2013
5:17 pm
pogo – “Of course it is easy to indoctrinate the weak, isn’t it?
With every post, you confirm that observation more and more.
Bob
January 14th, 2013
5:18 pm
Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said the automaker plans to build some Jeeps in China for the local market — and later, in Russia. From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130114/AUTO04/301140373#ixzz2HzUl6BC4
Romney was right, Chrysler is outsourcing production.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
5:18 pm
It is very easy to see how Obama won the election. Greed and stupidity.
Obama won reelection because the best candidate that republicans saw fit to nominate was Mitt Romney.
You wanna win a game?
Put better players on the field.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 14th, 2013
5:20 pm
CHRYSLER TO BUILD JEEPS IN CHINA, RUSSIA…
drudgey spam.
Living With Open Eyes
January 14th, 2013
5:20 pm
Atlas Shrugging, you’d better pray to Ayn Rand if you believe the U.S. Armed Forces will keep protecting you from the 51% after you quit paying them.
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
5:23 pm
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 14th, 2013
4:06 pm
If Romney had won we wouldn’t be hearing a peep about the deficit
_____________________________________
UHHH yes you would.
From Democrats.
It’s called POLITICS.
Look it up…
Dumb and Dumber
January 14th, 2013
5:25 pm
The President’s quote shows his (unfortunately) utter cluelessness (and our stupidity as a people for electing someone so ignorant of basic facts).
“America cannot afford another debate with this Congress about whether or not they should pay the bills they’ve already racked up. If congressional Republicans refuse to pay America’s bills on time, Social Security checks, and veterans benefits will be delayed.”
It is not the past debts that would go unpaid, it is the $3-4 BILLION PER DAY we run in current deficit that would not get paid (we collect $2+ trillion a year in taxes, more than enough to service old debt. It’s the $1+ trillion in deficit per year we can’t continue to run and this President (and the Senate) have done NOTHING to combat this (can’t say Republicants have done much either). Blind leading blind, etc. And I did not know that Republicans were responsible for paying all the government’s bills. Be nice if one segment could be responsible for that, could balance a budget overnight if you vested that power in a minority
Georgia
January 14th, 2013
5:26 pm
Bill Engvall really has a funny act. He likes to say, “Here’s your sign”, meaning that he observes human behavior and then awards acts of total stupidity with a sign that reads, “STUPID”. Thus, here’s your sign. Now, the terms of use that all commenters have to click on here at the AJC blogs, states clearly that any contributions from commenters can be archived, copied, produced, advertised, used in any manner, and made into derivative works, featured, etc…you get the idea. If you comment, then the AJC gets to steal any and all of the material in that comment. Now, get this: if a commenter himself is stealing from Bill Engvall, does that mean that the AJC gets to steal Bill Engvall’s entire act?
Should Bill Engvall be made aware that there is a commenter here stealing his material freely and proudly as if he himself had written it?
Copyright violations. Trademark violations. What a nightmare. But man aren’t we all so entertained by the stolen material? Over and Over again.
td
January 14th, 2013
5:27 pm
Jay
January 14th, 2013
5:17 pm
“Why is it that the only responsible party is the Republicans in the house that actually wrote and passed a budget?”
You seem to be proposing that one test of a responsible budget is that it has a chance of passage. Well, the Paul Ryan “budget” that that House Republicans passed had absolutely no chance of becoming law, and the GOP knew it. It was a show budget, nothing more, crammed with every Republican ideological fantasy right down to the total elimination of the estate tax and conversion of Medicare to a private voucher.
In fact, I bet half the Republican caucus would have voted against it if they thought it had any chance of passing.
Then why did the Senate not take up the budget and amend the budget and send it back to the House to either accept it, change it again or call for a conference committee? If the Senate did not like the Republican budget then why did they not draft their own, pass it and send it to the house?
Even if you do not like the House budget at least they did the work and the facts are the Senate has NOT done its job. Please do not talk about filibuster because they do not apply to spending so it only took 51 Democratic votes.
Bob
January 14th, 2013
5:27 pm
Jay, we funded the revolutionary war with debt, we spent part of the social security trust fund paying for vietnam, are war where we were not attacked. We also have spent billions paying for the Korean War, another country that never attacked our homeland. We still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea and are borrowing money to pay to keep our troops there. So you can try to say those were all funded at the time but I would like to see that big prepayment democrats made to cover keeping our troops abroad. Dems have put more Americans in harms way than repubs have by far. Even if you take WW1 & WW2 out of the equation, Korea and Vietnam claimed 10 times the lives that Iraq and Afghanistan have and we are still payinf for Korea. Neither one attacked our homeland and Ike warned of the Industrial Military Complex because the dems that ran congress was paying to build it.
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:28 pm
Stevie Ray: I’m not surprised I get no numerical response to question about how much debt is too much…even the economists won’t venture a guess…how scary is that?
Not scary at all, because the number you are looking for doesn’t exist. How would YOU answer the question?
Hint: If you answer it with a definitive number, you don’t understand how the whole economic picture works.
JohnnyReb
January 14th, 2013
5:29 pm
The Senate, with Obama leading Harry by the nose, has refused to pass a budget in four years.
The base line for which the continuing resolutions are passed is high, which explains why Obama settled for no budget for four years – he has more money to spend without a new budget.
Today’s explanation of cuts explained by Obama was smoke and mirrors; fuzzy at best and far short of addressing the root cause spending problems.
Obama talks a big game but has no intention of reducing spending.
This is showdown time and all the scare tactics, such as people who track loose nuclear material won’t get paid, will not change this show-down. Oh yea, he pulled out the old no SS checks line today also.
What will it take to get Moonbats to see how Obama has not intention of working with Republicans. It’s his way or nothing. This time, he gets nothing.
And, to deflect all the criticism of an all white boy cabinet, what do they do? They trot out Powell to Gregory’s Meet the Liberal Press where he pulls the race card. Powell is an embarrassment. A perfect example of when it comes down to it, Race trumps everything with some people. Hopefully, he will stop calling himself a Republican. He moved back to the plantation in 2008.
Madmax
January 14th, 2013
5:29 pm
As the saying goes, “If not now, when?” This president refuses to deal with spending. Step accross the aisle and you can just as easily change the title of this column to “Obama is hellbent on passing on the largest debt increase in history to future generations of Americans”
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:29 pm
TBG: Climate change, gun control, and now the debt ceiling. Is there a topic that you can debate without “losing it”?
If you call simple name calling like that losing it I have a nice property on the moon to sell you. Ask Newt Gingrich.
td
January 14th, 2013
5:29 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
5:16 pm
Same statements as I made to Jay gies as a response to you as well:
Then why did the Senate not take up the budget and amend the budget and send it back to the House to either accept it, change it again or call for a conference committee? If the Senate did not like the Republican budget then why did they not draft their own, pass it and send it to the house?
Even if you do not like the House budget at least they did the work and the facts are the Senate has NOT done its job. Please do not talk about filibuster because they do not apply to spending so it only took 51 Democratic votes.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
5:30 pm
D&D — “And I did not know that Republicans were responsible for paying all the government’s bills.”
Spending bills have to originate in the House and be approved by the House. Since the GOP is in control of the House, a large part of the responsibility is in their hands.
The President can’t spend a nickel that the House doesn’t *let* him spend.
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:30 pm
pogo: Obama makes the statement that raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with increasing spending. It is really about paying for the spending we have already committed to. And you people actually believe this bull-crap? What a bunch of dumba$$es.
Cons proving they don’t know and don’t want to know the truth….
Get Real
January 14th, 2013
5:31 pm
Fred…go have another double cheeseburger and take your meds…geezzz
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:31 pm
JHunt163: Or as the left would say, tell her to get a second job because you need more revenue to pay for that brand new sports car
Or as realists would say, you shouldn’t have asked your boss for that pay cut 12 years ago so you could control your spouse’s spending.
Paul
January 14th, 2013
5:32 pm
Well, it appears the conservative House Republicans understand the concepts behind the debt ceiling and the appropriations process about as well as our conservative bloggers.
No wonder they’re acting as they are. If you think cyanide is no more harmful than a chocolate malt, you’ll down it without thinking.
td 3:36
“This is a false argument by Obama. Just because the debt ceiling does not get raised does not mean we “default” on our debt. There is still money coming in each and every month to pay for the debt and most of our bills.”
Just once, I’d like to see a cite with some numbers for your claims.
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:32 pm
Get Real: Obama has ZERO interest in reducing the country’s debt, he is “hell bent” on essentially bankrupting the country. Doesn’t that bother the libs on this blog…especially you Jay!!
Prove it.
nelson
January 14th, 2013
5:33 pm
$4,000,000,000,000, that is how much the Prez wants to raise the debt ceilng. That is only temporary, then another 5 or 10 trillion temporary ceiling. Am I nutz to think the government can run like that? I remember when I was a little kid, I did not have the money for candy so I stole it, that is what the Preident is doing, stealing the future for this once great and solvent country.
JohnnyReb
January 14th, 2013
5:33 pm
Mitt Romney is a decent, fair, hardworking, ethical person who has dedicated his life to family and helping others while also making millions with a very large part of his income donated to worthy charities. Few people who run for president can match his legitimate history. Certainly not Obama.
When the reckoning comes, some on the Left who vilified Romney will find it very hot for a very long time.
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:34 pm
pogo: Of course it is easy to indoctrinate the weak, isn’t it?
You mean like creating a bunch of people who want to be armed because they are afraid of who has become President and can be easily controlled by a rising right wing tyrant who has a ready and willing army at his or her command if he or she should so choose?
Paul
January 14th, 2013
5:34 pm
JohnnyReb
“The Senate, with Obama leading Harry by the nose, has refused to pass a budget in four years.”
Has the Senate passed any appropriations bills that the President has signed?
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:35 pm
Why can’t Oblama seem to find any qualified women to work in his administration???
He has 8 out of 22 cabinet positions with women in them.
That Black Guy
January 14th, 2013
5:35 pm
Fred ™
January 14th, 2013
5:00 pm
Sauce for the goose and all that…
What kind of sauce DO you use for a goose anyway? I wanted to do one for Thanksgiving or Christmas but holy poop on a stick, them things be EXPENSIVE. It was like sixty bucks for a little bitty bird……….
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Cranberry citrus with a little yellow curry mixed in.
DannyX
January 14th, 2013
5:36 pm
“When the reckoning comes, some on the Left who vilified Romney will find it very hot for a very long time.”
What was Romney’s secret plan to deal with the deficit? Is it still top secret?
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:36 pm
DownInAlbany: The republicans say, “NO, the United States should NOT pay it’s bills
Link please
Here ya go: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/behind-the-curtain-house-gop-eyes-default-shutdown-86116.html?hp=t1
Paul
January 14th, 2013
5:36 pm
JohnnyReb
“This is showdown time and all the scare tactics, such as people who track loose nuclear material won’t get paid, will not change this show-down. Oh yea, he pulled out the old no SS checks line today also.”
What will the US Treasury use to pay those nuke trackers or SS checks?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 14th, 2013
5:36 pm
td — “Then why did the Senate not take up the budget and amend the budget and send it back to the House to either accept it, change it again or call for a conference committee? If the Senate did not like the Republican budget then why did they not draft their own, pass it and send it to the house?”
Because the House — which is the noisier, dirtier and more partisan of the two bodies — made it clear that it wanted things *its* way and wouldn’t consider compromises that leaned ‘too far’ toward the Democratic position.
Have you not been watching? This is why the President and Speaker Boehner have been having so many ‘dates’ over the last month or so. They’re *trying* to negotiate a compromise, but House Republicans are just as recalcitrant and as hidebound as you seem to think the President is.
“Even if you do not like the House budget at least they did the work and the facts are the Senate has NOT done its job.”
In your opinion.
“Please do not talk about filibuster because they do not apply to spending so it only took 51 Democratic votes.”
Please don’t assert that the Senate is obliged to duly consider and deliberate over every piece of junk the House poops out in their direction.
Adam
January 14th, 2013
5:37 pm
Orange13: Is there a such thing as a funded war? If so, please give examples.
World War II was fought on the books with taxes raised and government bonds sold to pay for it.