Let’s limit guns to sane, responsible gun owners
Terrified by an intruder who had broken into her Walton County home earlier this month, Melinda Herman grabbed a .38-caliber pistol to protect herself and her two children. As the intruder drew closer to their attic hiding spot, Herman called upon her handgun training, practice and motherly protective instinct and fired six shots, five of which struck her target. The barrage drove the wounded intruder out of her home, where he was later arrested and hospitalized.
I do love a happy ending.
You can debate the statistics about how often guns kept in the home are used for good or evil. You can point out the many instances in which such weapons end up in the hands of children or criminals, or in which people mistake a loved one for an intruder, with tragic consequences. Those are facts that every would-be gun owner ought to know and weigh in their personal decision-making. But in this case, for Herman and her family, access to a firearm and the training to use it wisely worked out well.
Since the incident, opponents of gun-safety laws have seized upon Herman’s story as some sort of counterweight to the tragic mass murder of young children in Connecticut that is now driving a reassessment of our national gun laws. But the connection is tenuous at best. No serious gun law proposal in the wake of the Connecticut tragedy — and certainly no gun law that I would ever support — would attempt to disarm Herman or deny her the right to protect herself and her loved ones. That is simply not at issue.
Herman is a law-abiding, rational, trained adult, not a criminal or a person with mental-health problems. Likewise, a .38 pistol kept for home defense is not a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity. Those distinctions are critical and easily drawn, both in law and in logic, and it’s important that they be recognized.
In other words, let’s keep this reasonable and rational, on all sides of the issue.
Here in Georgia, for example, state Rep. Paul Battles of Cartersville has announced legislation that would allow an administrator in each school — at the discretion of school district leadership — to undergo annual state peace-officer firearm training and be certified to carry a weapon at school. I don’t have a serious problem with that approach, in large part because it is voluntary for districts and because it meets the basic common-sense test of limiting guns to responsible, trained people.
The biggest danger of such an approach is the false sense of security it might create. In the infamous 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, an armed police officer was on duty at the school but found himself outgunned by the two student perpetrators. Of the 13 innocent people killed that day, 11 died after the killers’ initial engagement with armed law enforcement.
The tragic case of Keith Ratliff, a self-described “gun nut” who was found murdered in his Carnesville office earlier this month, surrounded by high-powered weaponry, further demonstrates that guns, like laws, are at best an imperfect defense. There is no solution to such violence; no single answer.
However, limiting gun possession and ammunition purchase to responsible citizens who are trained in their proper use — people such as Melinda Herman — would go a long way in reducing the carnage and heartbreak. In fact, if I could pass just one gun law, it would be a law barring the sale of ammunition to anyone who cannot demonstrate that had taken and passed a gun-safety course within the last five years.
I don’t know why that’s so hard.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
902 comments Add your comment
DannyX
January 11th, 2013
1:14 pm
“… a woman’s body has a way of shutting down so the pregnancy would not occur. He’s partly right on that.”
Republican birth control…Holding a loaded gun next to your wife’s head during sex.
Republican men love this method, gun porn and sex porn, all at the same time. Very explosive.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:14 pm
Down in Albany: I’ve always wanted to try Kobe beef but never have, (I’ve been too cheap lol). But I’d be willing to eat one of YOUR cows. Do you raise them?
In all seriousness I’m become kind of a nut on food. I want to get a cow from someplace that raises them naturally with no steroids. I’m about to till up my back yard and turn it into a big garden and maybe see if I can make a deal with the feller down the street who has gotten too old to do his whole garden to use some of his land.
I also am looking at Bees and a limited fish pond for some tilapia……….. Other than the beef I think I could be come “urbanly” self sufficient on food.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
1:14 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:10 pm
Wagyu and Kobe are both Japanese. And you don’t want to know what a steak costs in Japan, trust me.
I’m a bit embarrassed at what we paid for the meal in Vegas, Joe!
Yeah, I’ve watched documentaries on Kobe. I think they feed them beer and take extraordinary measures in making sure they cows remain calm. The waiter brought out the entire loin. It was almost totall white. Amazing stuff!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:16 pm
Think Syria.
Yeah, cause we are sooooo close to something like that here. LOL
Krystal'sBalls
January 11th, 2013
1:16 pm
@JHM
“Please don’t make assumptions about me, my residence, or my degree of preparedness for such an eventuality.”
Dude… are you FLIPPING OUT or something. Did I even ONCE make a reference to where YOU live or all that other crap?? Could you not determine that I clearly spoke of where I-I-I live giving concrete examples and pointed out other areas of metro Atlanta that have notoriously received news coverage for such occurences?? You DID ask, remember? Maybe you did not expect me to have an answer. Personally, I think it is YOU who has a problem with being “defensive” or some type of agenda to push.
Have your agenda if you must. It bears nothing on my personal life.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
1:16 pm
JHM – If you can afford to jet off to Buenos Aires for some dinner, good for you. And take me with you.
oddly enough, the best steak I’ve had in recent memory was at an Italian restaurant in Queretaro Mexico…a 48oz bone-in 3″ thick ribeye (meant to feed 2)…seared on the outside and dang near raw in the middle…it was fabulous
http://divino.com.mx/home_es.html
RB from Gwinnett
January 11th, 2013
1:17 pm
If you really think a nation of people who were largely hunters for survival at the time the 2nd amendment was written wrote it becuase someone would someday take from them the tool of their survival, you’re kidding yourself. They wrote it to protect themselves from a government like the one they had just fought their way out from under.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:17 pm
DIA — “Joe, missed your 12:17. That’s my point…docs and hospitals are forbidden from sharing that info with anyone! Again, I guess that part of hipaa can be amended?”
Well, if it’s only being flagged, as I suggested, no one on the gun-selling side would know *why* you couldn’t make a purchase. They wouldn’t know if you were mentally ill, a criminal, or what. All they would know is that you were prevented from buying a firearm for some reason.
Obviously, there would need to be a mechanism for you to find out WHY you were flagged and to enable you to do something about it if you were flagged in error, but you’d have to handle that on your own, I think.
ylojkt
January 11th, 2013
1:18 pm
Mrs. Herman should’ve had hollowpoints.
straitroad
January 11th, 2013
1:19 pm
This is the typical, emotional, liberal knee-jerk reaction…placing restrictions on the rights of law-abiding citizens due the the actions of non-law-abiding citizens. If we are going to restrict constitutional rights, why stop with firearms? Jay, if memory serves, you are against identification for voting rights, yet you have no problem with adding a layer of bureacracy for the constitutionally protected right to own firearms. This isn’t logical.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
1:19 pm
oh…and all that red meat goodness was 550 peso’s
Citizen of the World
January 11th, 2013
1:20 pm
Jay, everything you just said will make perfect sense to a reasonable person.
Towncrier
January 11th, 2013
1:20 pm
“Why are guns immune to restrictions? Does the 2nd Amendment say that? Absolutely not.”
It says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. There is probably not a lot of wiggle room in that. It gets down to the purpose for bearing arms. For self protection, one probably only needs a handun. For hunting (this can probably only be said to be an unenumerated right), semi-automatic weapons are not probably needed. For defense of a community or state against tyranny, semi-automatic weapons at the very least (given the fire power of the modern government).
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:20 pm
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:11 pm
Limit guns to the sane.. good idea. Unfortunately you want the insane in D.C. to decide who is sane. That’s just a blank check to pick and choose who OBAMA decides should have or not have a gun based primarily on their loyalty to the SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Your irrational talk radio/FOXBOT induced hatred of Obama and stupidity like this post is what prevents anyone from taking you seriously or trying to engage you in a civil discussion. You should take a communication course if you want to do anything other than spam FOXBOT crap or troll.
You were fine on your first couple of lines, I even thought the Unfortunately you want the insane in D.C. to decide who is sane. line was funny but oh so true. Then you had to follow up with the stupid crap which completely negated the rest. Nice job.
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
1:21 pm
Piers for Prez
January 11th, 2013
11:09 am
Fun Facts:
I’ve owned over 60 guns in my lifetime and all of them, so-called ‘assault-rifles’ included have killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s car.
THAT’S HILARIOUS!!! And sadly the truth.
That’s a fact most libs like to “overlook”. The infamous lion of the senate was a drunk and a murderer who tried to cover up the murder.
And yet the dimlibs claim to be the party for women. Oh…forgot about Clinton….maybe they are after all!
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
1:21 pm
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:14 pm
I’ll probably never get a chance to eat Kobe (thanks, Joe) again. My father-in-law raises a couple of steers a year and shares the bounty. He also has a pond full of hungry channel catfish that are always good in the fish cooker. My father has “yard chickens” and provides great yard-eggs often. Man! Talking about some good eggs! We hunt and fish. Eat what we kill. The freezer is full of ground deer meat. We are, for obvious reasons, viewed by many to be pretty backward down here, but, there are trade-offs in life! I wouldn’t trade rural life for anything.
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:22 pm
Sorry – but I couldn’t watch the “so called” news on TV ’cause it is a waste of time – both sides exaggerate and lie. PBS is the closest thing to being honest though they are obviously coming at you with a left of center view point. Falcons by SIX. I checked this out and EVERY time an NFL owner is wanting the tax payers to buy him a new stadium his team wins their first playoff game – coincidence or a rigged game? Don’t know – Falcons by SIX.
td
January 11th, 2013
1:22 pm
I guess the NRA slippery slop argument has some truth in it.
“Do you support state legislation to … ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?” asked one of the three dozen questions.
“Yes,” was Obama’s entire answer.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7312.html
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
1:22 pm
The Truth
January 11th, 2013
1:12 pm
One way gun usage could be eliminated is banning ammunition. If you follow the letter of the Constitution…”A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” You can bear arms… You just won’t have any ammunition to shoot. Not saying that I agree with this, but that would follow the letter of the Constitution.
The concept of arms included ammo.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
1:23 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:17 pm
Seems reasonable enough.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
1:23 pm
Trolls Bane
“2. Using the “well regulated militia” language, and cite this in the bill, require some sort of military training everyone upon highschool graduation – assuming of course that those so trained are deemed mentally fit and have no history of violence. Require an additional two weeks of training for everyone in the community capable of bearing arms each year. ”
And everyone who want to own weapons so they can be part of the well-regulated militia should be federalized and sent to Afghanistan!
Towncrier
Most of the gun control statements here are rendered moot by the Heller decision. As are the interpretations of the history and application of the 2nd Amendment. It’s a nice case because both the majority and minority opinions address the points made here and elsewhere – and the research contained goes far beyond even what you’ve cited.
Point is, though, the majority opinion is the majority opinion. And it doesn’t ‘guarantee’ much of what some advocates say it does.
As far as the Apostle Paul and sexual hangups, I’d say any person who thinks it preferable to be single rather than married, who says if you can’t control your urges and can’t be like he is, is better off getting married than risking sexual contact, has hangups.
Of course, for all the talk about marriage, what he’s saying is all you married types can’t live as righteously as he did so you’re taking the easier way out cause you can’t control yourselves.
I never said gay marriage was permitted by the scriptures, did I?
BTW – where is adoption – cross cultural – cross religion or otherwise – permitted by the scriptures, hmmmm? Ready to ban adoptions? I did say many people using arguments as you do confuse the act with the actor. And as josef weighed in, you generalize across genders, where the Jewish holdings – upon which those writings are based, Paul being a Pharisee and all – dealt with men. Not women.
You ignore plenty of NT rulings as well, but seem to be hung up on gays.
Ready to outlaw all divorce except for adultery?
Ready to ban men from having long hair? (And ready to take down almost all the Jesus pictures in your church because they show him with long hair?)
It’s another false argument, Towncrier, centered on some weird, overbearing angst with gays.
I’m just amazed at how people focus all their energy on one thing and attempt to justify it by the scriptures while ignoring a host of others.
BTW – as you seem to like history – this is related to your gay marriage question. Take a look at writings from the US. 18th and 19th centuries. Read the arguments religious leaders used to justify holding blacks as slaves. All biblical arguments. To fight against slavery was to be opposed to God and the scriptures.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:25 pm
straitroad
January 11th, 2013
1:19 pm
This is the typical, emotional, liberal knee-jerk reaction…placing restrictions on the rights of law-abiding citizens due the the actions of non-law-abiding citizens. If we are going to restrict constitutional rights, why stop with firearms? Jay, if memory serves, you are against identification for voting rights, yet you have no problem with adding a layer of bureacracy for the constitutionally protected right to own firearms. This isn’t logical.
+++++++++++++++++++++
You wouldn’t know logic if it came up and bit you in the ass. Your statement proves that. I’m wrong? Then write up the logical proof on what you wrote.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:26 pm
K. Balls — “Dude… are you FLIPPING OUT or something.”
No, but you are. Look at all the capital letters and emphasis you’re using. Look at the language you’re using to talk to me.
Now look back at what I’m posting.
If one of us is “flipping out,” it’s not me.
“Did I even ONCE make a reference to where YOU live or all that other crap??”
Actually, yes. Your comment to the effect of “YOU can take that chance” belies the fact that you don’t know a thing about me. Maybe you should leap to fewer conclusions and ask more questions instead.
“Could you not determine that I clearly spoke of where I-I-I live giving concrete examples and pointed out other areas of metro Atlanta that have notoriously received news coverage for such occurences?? You DID ask, remember?”
I did. But I didn’t ask you to make inaccurate guesses about my circumstances and then act as if you were teaching me some sort of valuable lesson.
“Maybe you did not expect me to have an answer. Personally, I think it is YOU who has a problem with being “defensive” or some type of agenda to push.”
Well, that’s because you don’t know anything about me and because you’re having a kneejerk defensive reaction to being asked a polite question. Personally, I don’t have an agenda. I just don’t like it when people who don’t know me presume to act as if they know something about me or the way I live.
“Have your agenda if you must.”
I don’t have an agenda. And I’m a firearm-owning disabled veteran, pal.
Once again, you don’t know the first thing about me, my circumstances or how I live. But don’t let that stop you from making something up and acting like it’s true.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:26 pm
td, from 1996? When Obama was running for state senator? Prior to the Heller decision? And relating only to handguns?
I guess you don’t know stupidity when you see it.
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
1:26 pm
“Mrs. Herman should’ve had hollowpoints.”
^^^ Death-porn ^^^
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:27 pm
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
1:21 pm
Piers for Prez
January 11th, 2013
11:09 am
Fun Facts:
I’ve owned over 60 guns in my lifetime and all of them, so-called ‘assault-rifles’ included have killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s car.
THAT’S HILARIOUS!!! And sadly the truth.
That’s a fact most libs like to “overlook”. The infamous lion of the senate was a drunk and a murderer who tried to cover up the murder.
And yet the dimlibs claim to be the party for women. Oh…forgot about Clinton….maybe they are after all!
++++++++++++++++++++
I’m sure that post made some sort of talk radio/FOXBOT sense to you. To the rest of us it was a rambling disjointed bunch of nonsense. I suspect a couple too many beers at lunch………
td
January 11th, 2013
1:27 pm
straitroad
January 11th, 2013
1:19 pm
This is the typical, emotional, liberal knee-jerk reaction…placing restrictions on the rights of law-abiding citizens due the the actions of non-law-abiding citizens. If we are going to restrict constitutional rights, why stop with firearms? Jay, if memory serves, you are against identification for voting rights, yet you have no problem with adding a layer of bureacracy for the constitutionally protected right to own firearms. This isn’t logical
Excellent point.
Towncrier
January 11th, 2013
1:29 pm
Paul,
Thanks for the response. I have to run right now, but will plan to get back to you later.
Have a good afternoon, all.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:29 pm
Towncrier — “It says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. There is probably not a lot of wiggle room in that.”
I might actually agree with you, if that’s *all* it said.
However, the fact that you don’t even mention the rest of the Amendment’s content suggests to me that you’d rather dismiss it out of hand and behave as if it doesn’t exist.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:30 pm
td
January 11th, 2013
1:27 pm
straitroad
January 11th, 2013
1:19 pm
This is the typical, emotional, liberal knee-jerk reaction…placing restrictions on the rights of law-abiding citizens due the the actions of non-law-abiding citizens. If we are going to restrict constitutional rights, why stop with firearms? Jay, if memory serves, you are against identification for voting rights, yet you have no problem with adding a layer of bureacracy for the constitutionally protected right to own firearms. This isn’t logical
Excellent point.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Another one who only knows “logic” as a word that Spock used on Star Trek……….
Paul
January 11th, 2013
1:30 pm
Fred
http://www.kayranchtexas.com/
Texas Wagyu.
ClydeFr0g
January 11th, 2013
1:30 pm
Jay,
First you say this;
“marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity”
Then you say this;
“let’s keep this reasonable and rational, on all sides of the issue”
So which is it that you want: insults and belittling of those that have a different perspective from you on the meaning of the Second Amendment, or reasonable, rational inclusive discussion? Is it even possible that many that own semi-automatic rifles do so because they truly believe that the Second Amendment was intended and exists to allow the people the ability to defend against a tyrannical government? Are you aware of the many, many examples where supposedly sane and sound governments have turned on their people?
You mention a “false sense of security” that armed personnel in schools might create. What about the “false sense of security” created by banning semi-automatic rifles? Or the “false sense of security” by preventing law-abiding citizens from owning magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds?
Exactly what training did Melinda Herman receive? You hold her up as an example of someone that you would allow to exercise their Second Amendment rights, so can you describe the training she received that you consider qualifies her for the privilege of exercising her right? And how would you expect someone to train or practice without access to ammunition? Did Melinda Herman pass a gun safety course within the past 5 years?
Melinda Herman shot at the intruder in her home 6 times and landed 5 hits, yet he was not incapacitated (evidence that he managed to flee the scene). Melinda Herman was a pretty good shot to land 5 of 6 rounds on the head of an attacker in a tense situation! What if she wasn’t as a good a shot? What if the attacker was on some drugs (PCP, meth, bath salts) that made him less sane and more capable of withstanding the 5 rounds he received to the face and if he had then proceeded to attack her and her kids instead of flee? What if there were two or even three attackers? Still think 6 rounds in a revolver is enough? Is 10 enough? 15? I don’t know about you but if I have to defend my family from an intruder or multiple intruders I want as much capacity as is available, not what makes Sen. Feinstein (living under the protection of armed guards herself) comfortable.
Jay, I’ve been respectful, direct, and honest here. Can you provide respectful, honest, and direct replies to these questions I have posed to you?
DannyX
January 11th, 2013
1:31 pm
“In all seriousness I’m become kind of a nut on food. I want to get a cow from someplace that raises them naturally with no steroids. I’m about to till up my back yard and turn it into a big garden and maybe see if I can make a deal with the feller down the street who has gotten too old to do his whole garden to use some of his land.”
Fred, I live on a 2 acre lot in Decatur, I have a huge vegetable garden and will be tilling it this weekend. I have a 6 horsepower 18″ tiller that rips right through it. Luckily I have a creek on my land and don’t have to pay for water. There is nothing better than home grown vegetables.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
1:31 pm
Towncrier
To me, the point is:
If you and your church don’t like gay marriage, then don’t perform gay marriages!!!
Just don’t seek to enact legislation based on your religious views and scriptures.
It’s too much like a Christian version of Sharia.
td
January 11th, 2013
1:32 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:26 pm
td, from 1996? When Obama was running for state senator? Prior to the Heller decision? And relating only to handguns?
I guess you don’t know stupidity when you see it.
Oh Yes, Obama has been very careful not to offend Conservative Dems for the past two election cycles but his true heart comes out when answering these questions when he did not think it mattered.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:32 pm
DIA — “My father-in-law raises a couple of steers a year and shares the bounty. He also has a pond full of hungry channel catfish that are always good in the fish cooker. My father has “yard chickens” and provides great yard-eggs often. Man! Talking about some good eggs! We hunt and fish. Eat what we kill. The freezer is full of ground deer meat. We are, for obvious reasons, viewed by many to be pretty backward down here, but, there are trade-offs in life! I wouldn’t trade rural life for anything.”
Nothing wrong with any of that.
My favorite aunt and uncle up in the Appalachians have pretty much the same arrangement, but no chickens. When I was younger and used to visit them once or twice a year, they’d pick out a calf each spring and name it “Meat.” Come fall, “Meat” became meat.
They used to save the liver out for when I came to visit; fried ‘taters, onions and veal liver was on the menu when we came to call.
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:33 pm
Fred – I don’t HATE Obama. in fact I pray for his safety quite often. I never said I HATE Obama – where did you get that from? I don’t agree with his SOCIALIST wasteful plan to spend our way out of debt. I am a FISCAL conservative. I did not vote for “W” and I did not vote for Obama because they are FISCAL liberals. Also I resent him lying under oath to abide by and uphold the laws on the books – he picks and chooses the laws he wants to enforce based on politics.
The Truth
January 11th, 2013
1:33 pm
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
1:22 pm
The Truth
January 11th, 2013
1:12 pm
One way gun usage could be eliminated is banning ammunition. If you follow the letter of the Constitution…”A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” You can bear arms… You just won’t have any ammunition to shoot. Not saying that I agree with this, but that would follow the letter of the Constitution.
The concept of arms included ammo.
Please show me where that is written in the Constitution. You can have arms and they can be unloaded.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
1:34 pm
So which is it that you want: insults and belittling of those that have a different perspective from you
for the THIRD TIME TODAY:
Jay is directly referencing a very real marketing campaign employed by the manufacturer of the Bushmaster, one that was still active as of a week or so ago.
It is not “insulting” for Jay to point out that this marketer was, in fact, selling these weapons as a cure for diminished masculinity. He is pointing out a verifiable fact.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:34 pm
Are you aware of the many, many examples where supposedly sane and sound governments have turned on their people?
Oh do give us the “many examples”
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:34 pm
DowninAlbany: I can’t have chickens here I don’t think and I don’t hunt. I don’t know anyone who has land, I’m too cheap to pay 1000’s of dollars to lease any, and I’m not about to go out on public land with a bunch of idiot Yankees who think a shot or 4 of Jack in their morning coffee is the way to wake up.
i HAD a neighbor who wiped out herds of deer every year. I gave him my tags and he brought me the meat. It worked for both of us. I don’t live there anymore though. Around Atlanta there really is no place to hunt or fish without the right connections which I don’t have. Oh well. If I could I would hunt, birds, rabbits, squirrels, deer, I’m not picky, I’ll eat it all……..
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
1:35 pm
they’d pick out a calf each spring and name it “Meat.”
we always went with “Stu”…er stew
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:35 pm
Go to DC and get a steak our pols eat paid for by lobbyists.
Good stuff.
Recon 0311 2533
January 11th, 2013
1:36 pm
First of all Mrs. Herman had only received basic training on handling the newly purchased .38 caliber revolver from her husband one week prior to the incident. Secondly the intruder was evidently unarmed himself when he opened that closet door and received 5 rounds in the head from the 6 shot revolver. Although seriously wounded he still managed to vacate the house get into a car and drive a short distance from the scene. Had the intruder been armed with a gun, knife or some other instrument the outcome could have been far less favorable for Mrs. Herman and her children. If Mrs. Herman had been armed with a semi-automatic handgun of say .45 ACP, 40 cal. or even a nine with a high capacity magazine she would have been much better prepared for that encounter. Unfortunately, criminals and the mentally ill will still be able to obtain so called assault weapons regardless of any ban, which may be imposed. Of course the harmless masculinity challenged as Jay presumptuously labels those who collect or target shoot with such weapons may not have legal access should a ban be imposed. Jay should go out to some of the local ranges where he would observe many women firing AR15’s, tactical shot shot guns and semi-automatic hand guns with high capacity magazines.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:39 pm
td, many people have been against handguns, especially Saturday night specials. Heller changed that.
Do you have a rational sane point?
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:40 pm
This Falcons game is destiny – Blank wants Atlanta to give him a billion – and Atlanta wants a win. Rigged or not Falcons by SIX. You illustrious mayor has already declared that Blank will get his free stadium. Does he know something – yes indeed – Falcons by SIX.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
1:41 pm
My father always has a garden, but, we are about out of the peas/beans from this past summer. He never fails to take veggies to the widow ladies around town. He grows grapes and makes several gallons of wine every year (though he has been a tee-totaller for about 25 years now). He grows cane and cooks it into syrup every fall. Has a couple of bee hives (though he tends to be a little stingey with the honey
). Damn, the more I type, the more I see what an amazing man he is and what a blessing he is. Anyway, I digress.
One other thing…not much on this green earth that I won’t eat, but, I draw the line at liver! No, no, no!
That Black Guy
January 11th, 2013
1:41 pm
Adam
January 11th, 2013
10:53 am
and that might just save 500-1000 lives a year…maybe….not to sound cold, but small potatoes
Assuming that the only deaths it stops are accidental ones. What about the number of people who will be stopped from buying ammo who would otherwise be hotheaded and go shoot up someplace or kill a person that offended them? People who take training classes are much more likely NOT to lose their cool with a deadly weapon they are trained to use.
____________________________________________
For example, people who get SOOOO angry when debating climate change that they lose control and call names and insult those they are debating.
I agree. People like that should not own a gun and should be listed on a national mental health database.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:42 pm
” I did not vote for “W””
I will call that a lie.
cons cheered on w blowing our surplus then suddenly became fiscal cons under President Obama.
Fact.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
1:42 pm
Recon 1:36
See stands for decibels’ 1:34.
If anyone’s presumptuous about their target audience (like the pun?) it’s Bushmaster.
Guy on tv floated an interesting idea regarding AR-15s. If people want to use them, then the gov’t can authorize sale – to licensed gun clubs where members can come in, check them out and shoot them at the club.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
1:43 pm
Morality – Blank wants Atlanta to give him a billion – and Atlanta wants a win. Rigged or not Falcons by SIX. You illustrious mayor has already declared that Blank will get his free stadium
Do some basic research at least…The city will kick in 300M, Blank 600M…so it’s not “free” and not “a billion” from the city
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:44 pm
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:33 pm
Fred – I don’t HATE Obama. in fact I pray for his safety quite often. I never said I HATE Obama – where did you get that from? I don’t agree with his SOCIALIST wasteful plan to spend our way out of debt. I am a FISCAL conservative. I did not vote for “W” and I did not vote for Obama because they are FISCAL liberals. Also I resent him lying under oath to abide by and uphold the laws on the books – he picks and chooses the laws he wants to enforce based on politics.
++++++++++++++++
Really? Provide proof of his “socialist ways.” That last part about the laws is just plain stupid. Do you know how many laws there are in this Country? Of COURSE he picks and chooses. Hell, YOU pick and choose what laws you obey. Ever given a male a piggy back ride, even for a joke? You law breaker. You ever spit out your car window in Marietta? Law breaker.
I really grow weary of stupidity and then those who claim they didn’t rally mean “that.” It is obvious from your many posts what you mean sir. You toss out buzz words without any regard to the validity of them and then get indignant when someone calls you on it.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:46 pm
Our President is staying the course on Afghanistan withdrawal.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:46 pm
If you and your church don’t like gay marriage, then don’t get gay married!!!
There you go…
Jm
January 11th, 2013
1:48 pm
Why does Jay want Ted Turner to have to give up his guns?
Jm
January 11th, 2013
1:49 pm
“Our President is staying the course on Afghanistan withdrawal.”
that withdrawal may happen super quick in 2 months
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
1:49 pm
Of course the harmless masculinity challenged as Jay presumptuously labels those who collect or target shoot with such weapons
I know that Paul’s already addressed this, but in case Recon never saw it:
http://cdn03.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/17/bushmaster-ad1-600×450.jpg
This was an active part of Bushmaster’s marketing campaign until very recently. It is not something that Jay imagined. Please stop denying it, or deflecting by imagining that Jay is saying something that he is not.
DannyX
January 11th, 2013
1:50 pm
“You illustrious mayor has already declared that Blank will get his free stadium. Does he know something – yes indeed – Falcons by SIX.”
Reed doesn’t have much say in the matter. Its your illustrious Governor and Republican legislature that are making this deal. The Georgia Dome is a state building.
Btw, Deal and Reed are, bff’s.
Krystal'sBalls
January 11th, 2013
1:50 pm
@JHM
There is no need for you and I to engage any further. You obviously have some type of hang up. CAPS are for emphasis in case you didn’t know. I need to ask no questions. MY post’s purpose was to state my perspective. You cannot deal with that, your problem. I lack no credibility in the military area. I am a well seasoned VETERAN as well, though an “abled” one. I just don’t understand what it even had to do with anything anyway. Have a nice day, because I am done exchanging with your JHM moniker.
ClydeFr0g
January 11th, 2013
1:50 pm
There is a lot of confusion about the meaning of the Second Amendment. I see people accusing gun rights advocates of ignoring the first half of it. Let’s look at what it means.
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
The first part;
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,”
Anti-gun advocates insist that this refers to the creation of the Army or National Guard. The Army already existed and the National Guard wouldn’t exist for many, MANY years later.
Anti-gun advocates believe that “regulated” means the government has oversight. Not only does this interpretation contradict the second part of the Second Amendment, it also contradicts the well-established reason the Second Amendment was even included in the Bill of Rights.
“Regulated”, in the context of the Second Amendment, refers to the primary meaning of the word: “Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.”
A militia is not a state-sponsored military force, it is a collection of armed citizens.
Now the second part;
“the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
This should leave nothing to interpretation. To “Keep” means to own, owning weapons is a RIGHT, not a privilege, bestowed upon each individual. “Bear” means carry, and carrying weapons is also a RIGHT, not a privilege bestowed upon each individual. And as the Bill of Rights says, these rights shall not be infringed. The Second Amendment does not state which weapons can and cannot be kept and carried, it states that the right to do so shall not be infringed.
Suppose I want to keep and carry an AR-15 but the state says I can’t. The state is INFRINGING on my right if it is deciding for me what I can or can’t keep or carry.
So look at the whole thing;
A properly-operating (practiced and equipped) civilian armed force being necessary to the security of a free state (as opposed to a tyrannical state), the right of each individual (those of us that make up “the people”) shall not be infringed.
PERIOD.
So the question comes up “Do you think you should have the right to own a tank, or a destroyer, or an F-22?” Well, according to the Bill of Rights, YES. We have already been subjected to unconstitutional laws infringing on our rights to keep and bear arms (including fully-automatic weapons). The inch was given, and the mile has been taken. Gun rights advocates have learned this the hard way.
The ONLY legitimate way of restricting gun rights is to amend the Constitution.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:51 pm
Paul: Manor is real close to Killeen. I have a buddy that lives there. Maybe the next time I go visit I’ll drive down there for some Kobe…….
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
1:52 pm
off topic, but–like digby said:
I’m at the point where I’m going to need to know my doctor’s political beliefs before I hire him. There are just too many wingnut doctors in Congress spouting ridiculous views for me to take for granted that the medical profession isn’t filled with them.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:52 pm
“Morality” — “I don’t agree with his SOCIALIST wasteful plan to spend our way out of debt.”
Why? Ronald Reagan did the same thing. His “Prime the Pump” domestic policy was simply massive domestic deficit spending in order to jump-start the economy.
td
January 11th, 2013
1:53 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:39 pm
td, many people have been against handguns, especially Saturday night specials. Heller changed that.
Do you have a rational sane point?
You (not just you but most progressives) has had the strategy since at least the 1920’s to get their philosophy implemented one piece at a time. This is well documented if you go and look and read the strategies of the movement. We need not look any further then at Obamacare as an example. It has been the strategy of the progressive movement since the 1920’s for universal (single payer) healthcare for everyone. There were many arguments from the far left of the progressive movement that the affordable care act did not go far enough to a single payer plan but one progressive after another kept saying this is just the first step so pass the bill.
The progressive movement have been using the same tactics with their gun control (gun elimination philosophy). They have been trying for years to get rid of guns one step at a time. Obama(and all the progressives) wanted to get rid of guns when he was a legislator and is using this latest mass killing to bring the issue back to the forefront.
DannyX
January 11th, 2013
1:54 pm
“Why does Jay want Ted Turner to have to give up his guns?”
Seriously, Jm? You’re going to keep to playing this angle? Don’t make me post a list of all the Republican crazies that will have to turn in their guns, that’s too much typing for me.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:55 pm
Combat operations end this spring.
Peace and prosperity starts in the spring.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
1:55 pm
stands – I’m at the point where I’m going to need to know my doctor’s political beliefs before I hire him. There are just too many wingnut doctors in Congress spouting ridiculous views for me to take for granted that the medical profession isn’t filled with them
remember …half of all doctors finished in the bottom half of their class
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
1:55 pm
USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:34 pm
“and that day might not be far off. ”
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand add another nutter to the list.
yes. government is soooooooo tyrannical that you’d better have your Glock because it’s REALLY going to protect you against an F-16
LinkReport this comment.USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:35 pm
I mean, let’s be honest … if government really IS that tyrannical, do you honestly think that you will be able to fight off the DoD??? really???
It would be an ugly and costly fight, but yes, an insurgent army can defeat a techonologically superior army. You also assume all in the military would be with the government in this fight. There just might be some who switch sides as soldiers did in the Civil War.
That Black Guy
January 11th, 2013
1:56 pm
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
11:15 am
Maybe you are right. To have posted something THAT stupid you have to be a Republican………..
_________________________________
Fred
Peadawg
January 11th, 2013
1:56 pm
“Let’s limit guns to sane, responsible gun owners”
Can we do the same to voting?
ClydeFr0g
January 11th, 2013
1:57 pm
Stands,
“So which is it that you want: insults and belittling of those that have a different perspective from you
for the THIRD TIME TODAY:
Jay is directly referencing a very real marketing campaign employed by the manufacturer of the Bushmaster, one that was still active as of a week or so ago.
It is not “insulting” for Jay to point out that this marketer was, in fact, selling these weapons as a cure for diminished masculinity. He is pointing out a verifiable fact.”
You do know that Bushmaster does not manufacture ALL semi-automatic rifles, right? You do realize that many, MANY different manufacturers produce AR-15 and M4gery rifles, and that most do not have any such marketing campaigns that you reference in the defense of Jay’s insults directed towards gun rights advocates?
And just because one moronic marketer uses an idiotic campaign, that means it’s okay to use this one campaign to question the masculinity of anyone that supports the right to own semi-automatic rifles?
Sorry, you are wrong. And even if you were right, that still does not help with the stated objective of having a reasonable, sane discussion about gun control/gun rights. You think petty insults is the means of having a sane and reasonable discussion on anything?
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:58 pm
“Can we do the same to voting?”
There would be no gop.
Job Creator
January 11th, 2013
1:58 pm
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:14 pm
Fred, check with your local Farmers COOP, I am sure they can recommend local farmers that raise beef for sale.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:59 pm
Rightwingextreme, you forgot to yell “Wolverines” when posting such insurgency tripe. Where did you get your AQ training for being a terrorist. That is what you are claiming as a constitutional right.
Buzzy
January 11th, 2013
1:59 pm
Some people are in fact insane,but they have not been declared insane. In addition, it’s still an educated guess for mental health workers to predict who will be violent and who won’t be. Then too, some people are just bad to the bone and bad people do bad things…insane or not.
America has made it’s bed with all this silly “gun love” that is going on today, Our country is choc full of guns, and now it’s time to pay the price for our stupidity and suffer one blood bath after another, I’m afraid. I mean I read where we have 300M guns floating around the fruited plain…
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
2:00 pm
K. Balls — “There is no need for you and I to engage any further.”
Suit yourself.
“You obviously have some type of hang up.”
Yes, and I clearly told you what it was.
“CAPS are for emphasis in case you didn’t know. I need to ask no questions.”
You absolutely need to ask me questions before you go questioning how I live and how I conduct my life, pal.
“MY post’s purpose was to state my perspective.”
Horses*it.
You cannot possibly have any perspective on my circumstances, as you don’t even know what they are. So why’d you see fit to comment on what I do?
“You cannot deal with that, your problem.”
No. I can’t deal with people who don’t know me acting like they know what I do and how I live, and then lecturing me about it. No, I can’t stand arrogant ignoramuses like that.
“I lack no credibility in the military area. I am a well seasoned VETERAN as well, though an “abled” one. I just don’t understand what it even had to do with anything anyway.”
Yes, I’m quite sure that that “I don’t understand” applies to a lot of things where you’re concerned. You cluelessly speculated that I had an “agenda.” So that’s why I brought it up.
“Have a nice day, because I am done exchanging with your JHM moniker.”
Good. I look forward to you keeping your yap shut.
skipper
January 11th, 2013
2:00 pm
Herman it lately is said,
shot an intruder in the head.
If she had no gun
he’d STILL be havin’ fun
and she just might even be dead!
Gotta find balance somewhere, folks!
getalife
January 11th, 2013
2:01 pm
Stands,
The first question I ask my doctors is are you a con.
Recon 0311 2533
January 11th, 2013
2:02 pm
Paul,
Bushmaster is but only one of many who manufacture and sell AR’s. Most people who own them like them because there’s a variety of optics and other accessories that easily mount on the Piccatinny rails. They’re fun to target shoot and have minimal recoil. Banning will only result in an underground market and won’t make anyone safer. A well structured and maintained national data base is the best approach. The NRA has advocated for such a database for years.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
2:02 pm
Obama(and all the progressives) wanted to get rid of guns when he was a legislator and is using this latest mass killing to bring the issue back to the forefront.
td, again you may want to have your sanity checked with your progressive conspiracy theory. You showed a one word answer to a question about handguns and you extrapolate from there. Why did you leave out the secret moon base?
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
2:02 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
1:59 pm
Rightwingextreme, you forgot to yell “Wolverines” when posting such insurgency tripe. Where did you get your AQ training for being a terrorist. That is what you are claiming as a constitutional right.
I have no clue what you’re talking about…..although the Wolverines did win!
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
2:03 pm
And just because one moronic marketer uses an idiotic campaign, that means it’s okay to use this one campaign to question the masculinity of anyone that supports the right to own semi-automatic rifles?
Jay did not “question the masculinity of anyone that supports the right to own semi-automatic rifles.” Here is what he wrote:
a .38 pistol kept for home defense is not a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity.
Given that a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine WAS, IN FACT, being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity, it is not “insulting anyone’s masculinity” to point out this inconvenient truth.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
2:03 pm
Clyde Frog — “So look at the whole thing;
A properly-operating (practiced and equipped) civilian armed force being necessary to the security of a free state (as opposed to a tyrannical state), the right of each individual (those of us that make up “the people”) shall not be infringed.
PERIOD.”
Sorry, nothing doing.
You’re wrong in a number of places and you pretty clearly need to familiarize yourself with the writings and opinions of the Founders on this topic.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
2:04 pm
Buzzy
January 11th, 2013
1:59 pm
Buzzy, I’ve often thought that anyone…ANYONE that points the barrel of a gun at someone and pulls the trigger, whether a jilted lover or even someone protecting themselves or their loved ones is, at least for a split second technically “insane.” But, that’s just me.
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
2:06 pm
“You (not just you but most progressives) has had the strategy since at least the 1920’s to get their philosophy implemented one piece at a time. This is well documented if you go and look and read the strategies of the movement…The progressive movement have been using the same tactics with their gun control (gun elimination philosophy). They have been trying for years to get rid of guns one step at a time.”
Oh, noes! You found out the TRUTH! It’s all being run by the MIB in area 51! Behghazi! Wolverines! The Loch Ness monster is in on it too; they’re all out to get you! Rush said so!
Tyler P
January 11th, 2013
2:06 pm
Jay-
You just had to slip the assault rifle, high-capacity magazine comment in, even thought that’s not necessarily what your column’s motif is. Keep in mind: that was ONE intruder. She shot him 5 of 6 times from close range. He ran out, and from what I understand, is still alive in the hospital. What if there were 2,3,4 intruders? Do you expect us to reload our revolvers that fast? I’m ok with talking about screening and qualifying people more carefully, but let’s take the focus off of “assault rifles with high capacity magazines.” Thanks
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
2:06 pm
Rightwingextreme, yep we agree. You’re clueless.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
2:06 pm
AR 15’s are modified .22 rifles.
I like guns with more of a kick.
td
January 11th, 2013
2:06 pm
Peadawg
January 11th, 2013
1:56 pm
“Let’s limit guns to sane, responsible gun owners”
Can we do the same to voting?
I would be satisfied if we only were able to verify that only the legal voters were voting.
Peadawg
January 11th, 2013
2:06 pm
““Can we do the same to voting?”
There would be no gop.”
Nice one.
But you’re ignorant if you truly believe that only GOP voters vote blindly without knowing the facts and issues.
Devil's Advocate
January 11th, 2013
2:07 pm
The flaw with firearm/ammo ban solutions is that they don’t address the real problem. To me, there’s only 2 real categories to slot death by firearm.
1. Accidental
2. The result of an evil and/or mentally ill person committing a crime
Firearm/ammo bans and restrictions greatly impact the first category but do little for the second. Reduce the number of firearms/ammo, reduce the risk of accidents. However, people intent on committing crime are not going to reconsider just because obtaining lethal tools are illegal. These people already commit murder with any tool available. Firearms are only one issue.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
2:08 pm
Pea,
I know many that will never ever vote gop because they watched the w disaster.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
2:09 pm
It is gonna be damn difficult to disarm the mental midgets and their gun love.
What they need is some Kiss.
You pulled the trigger on my…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trR5ROuf1Uk
12rmp123
January 11th, 2013
2:09 pm
Very even-keeled article, thank you.
The problem with mandatory gun safety classes is that they place requirements over a right, unlike the ‘privelege’ of having a driver’s license. Pistol registration and the need for any sort of firearms permit is already an infringement, and this would take us further in that direction.
Also keep in mind that in cases such as Newtown, the perpetrator was not the owner of the gun and ammo, thus would not have been hindered by such a rule. Same goes for all who borrow or steal guns.
Hollywood is looking at ways it can voluntarily help in curtailing violence on their part, and they will not be asked to give up their first amendment rights in the process. I think the gun industry could take a positive cue from here. What if gun shops offerred store discounts for people who can show proof they’ve taken a safety course, or maybe show proof they’ve purchased a proper safe? Win win win.
Mick
January 11th, 2013
2:10 pm
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
If only they knew the types of weapons that lie ahead, that seems to be the problem, weapons of war. Those weapons should meet a higher bar for purchase. Still, we loves our guns we do…
td
January 11th, 2013
2:11 pm
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
2:03 pm
Just proves how much you know about the philosophy you belong too.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
2:11 pm
getalife, Erwin’s–
I don’t mean literally “what digby said.” being that she is of the female persuasion, there is a whole ‘nother dynamic involved with her medical care.
Politics is extremely unlikely to factor into any care I may receive… although I guess if I were to work at it I could come up with some hypotheticals…
“sfd, you SURE you want to tie those tubes? Aren’t you concerned about the potential need to re-populate the white race?”
Peadawg
January 11th, 2013
2:11 pm
‘I know many that will never ever vote gop because they watched the w disaster.”
And I know many who voted for/against Obama b/c of his race and didn’t know jack s*t about what he stood for. Those are the voters who I’m talking about. You ask them 1 thing Obama stood for/against and they run away with their tale between their legs.
rightwingextreme
January 11th, 2013
2:12 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
2:03 pm
Seeing how you lack an understanding of the Founding Fathers views on the Second Amendment, I’ve included a few below for you. At the very bottom there is a section of quotes from people who are in favor of gun control.
I only ask that you read this with an open mind.
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
——————————————————————————–
“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …”
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.
——————————————————————————–
“The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them.”
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot’s Debates, vol. 3 “The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution.”
——————————————————————————–
“… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms”
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights
——————————————————————————–
“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …”
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, “Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State”
——————————————————————————–
The Founding Fathers on Arms
“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States
——————————————————————————–
“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.”
Thomas Paine
——————————————————————————–
“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
——————————————————————————–
“The great object is that every man be armed.” and “Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
——————————————————————————–
“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
——————————————————————————–
“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
——————————————————————————–
“The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … ”
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.
——————————————————————————–
“The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
——————————————————————————–
The Founding Fathers on Maintaining Freedom
“The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
——————————————————————————–
“There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. ”
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer
——————————————————————————–
“The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.”
Edmund Burke
British Statesman, 1784
——————————————————————————–
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison
——————————————————————————–
“They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Ben Franklin
American Statesman
——————————————————————————–
Later Quotes on Gun Control
“The ruling class doesn’t care about public safety. Having made it very difficult for States and localities to police themselves, having left ordinary citizens with no choice but to protect themselves as best they can, they now try to take our guns away. In fact they blame us and our guns for crime. This is so wrong that it cannot be an honest mistake.”
Malcolm Wallop
former U.S. Sen. (R-WY)
——————————————————————————–
“An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject.”
Anon.
Seen on a bumper sticker
——————————————————————————–
Pro Gun Control
“Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.”
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.
——————————————————————————–
“If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things.”
“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933
you can't fix stupid or Democrats or liberals
January 11th, 2013
2:12 pm
I do not want demonocrats or liberal deciding who is “sane”. Because they have elected Obama, Franks, Carter, and E. Kennedy no wonder we are in such bad shape.