Let’s limit guns to sane, responsible gun owners
Terrified by an intruder who had broken into her Walton County home earlier this month, Melinda Herman grabbed a .38-caliber pistol to protect herself and her two children. As the intruder drew closer to their attic hiding spot, Herman called upon her handgun training, practice and motherly protective instinct and fired six shots, five of which struck her target. The barrage drove the wounded intruder out of her home, where he was later arrested and hospitalized.
I do love a happy ending.
You can debate the statistics about how often guns kept in the home are used for good or evil. You can point out the many instances in which such weapons end up in the hands of children or criminals, or in which people mistake a loved one for an intruder, with tragic consequences. Those are facts that every would-be gun owner ought to know and weigh in their personal decision-making. But in this case, for Herman and her family, access to a firearm and the training to use it wisely worked out well.
Since the incident, opponents of gun-safety laws have seized upon Herman’s story as some sort of counterweight to the tragic mass murder of young children in Connecticut that is now driving a reassessment of our national gun laws. But the connection is tenuous at best. No serious gun law proposal in the wake of the Connecticut tragedy — and certainly no gun law that I would ever support — would attempt to disarm Herman or deny her the right to protect herself and her loved ones. That is simply not at issue.
Herman is a law-abiding, rational, trained adult, not a criminal or a person with mental-health problems. Likewise, a .38 pistol kept for home defense is not a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity. Those distinctions are critical and easily drawn, both in law and in logic, and it’s important that they be recognized.
In other words, let’s keep this reasonable and rational, on all sides of the issue.
Here in Georgia, for example, state Rep. Paul Battles of Cartersville has announced legislation that would allow an administrator in each school — at the discretion of school district leadership — to undergo annual state peace-officer firearm training and be certified to carry a weapon at school. I don’t have a serious problem with that approach, in large part because it is voluntary for districts and because it meets the basic common-sense test of limiting guns to responsible, trained people.
The biggest danger of such an approach is the false sense of security it might create. In the infamous 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, an armed police officer was on duty at the school but found himself outgunned by the two student perpetrators. Of the 13 innocent people killed that day, 11 died after the killers’ initial engagement with armed law enforcement.
The tragic case of Keith Ratliff, a self-described “gun nut” who was found murdered in his Carnesville office earlier this month, surrounded by high-powered weaponry, further demonstrates that guns, like laws, are at best an imperfect defense. There is no solution to such violence; no single answer.
However, limiting gun possession and ammunition purchase to responsible citizens who are trained in their proper use — people such as Melinda Herman — would go a long way in reducing the carnage and heartbreak. In fact, if I could pass just one gun law, it would be a law barring the sale of ammunition to anyone who cannot demonstrate that had taken and passed a gun-safety course within the last five years.
I don’t know why that’s so hard.
– Jay Bookman
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902 comments Add your comment
Real Scootter
January 11th, 2013
12:17 pm
mm
January 11th, 2013
12:00 pm
Which amendment to our constitution says we have a right to healthcare?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:17 pm
DIA — “So, how are law enforcement agencies to gain access to this info? I guess the law(s) could be amended?”
I’m not sure that they actually need to have access to the detailed information itself. There should be some way for a physician, hospital or judge to ‘flag’ an individual in the database used for instant checks. If you’re flagged, you can’t buy — but nobody on the selling end knows *why* you can’t.
It’s kind of analogous to the no-fly lists. If you’re on it, the airlines aren’t going to be able to tell you why.
Of course, there needs to be some means for people to find out why they’re on the list and to contest or correct ‘flagging’ if the ‘flag’ is incorrect.
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
12:18 pm
More jobs may help but I don’t see anything on the table or on the horizon that will contribute toward that outcome..
Many of those shooters and victims had good paying jobs—in the drug industry. The problem isn’t lack of money, it’s too much money, which is spent on guns to protect the product.
Pretty soon you have guns everywhere and shootings galore, including innocent victims caught in the crossfire. Prohibition Part II.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:18 pm
St Simons – he-ne-ha Bootakook 2014
January 11th, 2013
12:08 pm
Aquagirl – “You know Republicans would oppose this because
“sane and responsible” eliminates so many of them.”
hot damn, 3 chords and the Truth right there, girl.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can’t let that go unnoticed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2Fu8kSlmTw
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
12:19 pm
FRED
My experience with the rightwingers who I find not unintelligent, is that they are prefer a country where everyone has access to healthcare, just the means of accomplishing seems to be debatable. This subset clearly excludes those on the right (a ton of them) who opposed this as another tax that like all taxes, will exceed any current estimates geometrically.
After the small ball-no impact and ideologically driven tax increase recently agreed to, clearly DEMS lost and GOP lost as well. The common thread is that all politicians operate in a system that views courage as a liability. Transaction taxes and some of the automatic spending cuts should have remained in place in addition to increased rates over $200K IMO.
BO et al will lose supporters if they cut anything, particularly in the entitlement area since they have sold hard that the oppositions goal is to leave millions of americans destitude…of course that is not the case. I understand the original Tea Party premise but they have become stark raving loonies…stuck in the middle eh?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:19 pm
harvey — “The whole purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect the citizenry from a tyrannical government.”
No, it’s not. You need to read your Constitution once in a while.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:21 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:12 pm
Fred — “Could you please direct me to the part in our Constitution or Bill of Rights that says we have the right to Obamacare?”
It’s riiiiiight next to the part that says “right to life.”
Actually, here:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
+++++++++++++++++++
Cool, so according to THAT logic I have a Constitutional “right” to all the Free beer I want. Where do I go pick that crap up? And what if I’m too drunk to drive? Does that mean I now have the “right” to have it delivered?
Great, go get my free beer Skippy and bring it by the house. And don’t dally, I’m thirsty.
indigo
January 11th, 2013
12:21 pm
Out of all the industrialized Western nations on Earth, we have, by far, the highest gun murder rate.
Do you “right to keep and bear arms” folks think that’s a good thing?
Do these other nations know something we don’t?
cmac22
January 11th, 2013
12:21 pm
Funny how obozo is protected by guns & his kids are protected by guns!!
According to the attached article, it would appear that taxes will go up & up & up with obozo as the leader. Like all politicians, he is a lying pile of dog squeeze. People are so gullible!!
Braces for the Kids Just Got More Expensive: Obamacare Tax Hike Case Study
WASHINGTON, D.C.—In 2013, the tax increases in Obamacare will increasingly conspire against kitchen-table family healthcare decisions. As just one example, below are some of the taxes that will impact the purchase of dental braces:
Obamacare Medical Device Tax: As of Jan.1, Obamacare imposes a new tax of 2.3 percent on medical device manufacturers, including those who make dental braces. The tax is imposed on gross sales — even if the company does not earn a profit in a given year. While the tax will be paid to the IRS by the manufacturer, the tax will be passed along as a higher cost of the product, ultimately to be borne by the parent buying the braces for their child. With the cost of braces being as high as $7,625 this new tax could raise the cost of these braces by $175.
Obamacare Flexible Spending Account Cap: As of Jan. 1, the 30-35 million Americans who use a pre-tax Flexible Spending Account (FSA) at work to pay for their family’s basic medical needs face a new government cap of $2,500. This will squeeze $13 billion of tax money from Americans over the next ten years. (Currently, the accounts are unlimited under federal law, though employers are allowed to set a cap.) A parent looking to sock away extra money to pay for braces would find themselves quickly hitting this new cap, meaning they would have to pony up some or all of the cost with after-tax dollars. Needless to say, this tax will especially impact middle class families.
Obamacare “Haircut” to the Medical Itemized Deduction: Faced with higher prices for braces and a reduced ability to pay for them with their FSA, parents might decide to deduct the cost of braces on their tax returns. Unfortunately, Obamacare makes this harder, too.
Before Obamacare, Americans facing high medical and dental expenses were allowed a deduction to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). As of Jan. 1, Obamacare imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Therefore, Obamacare not only makes it more difficult to claim this deduction, it widens the net of taxable income.
According to the IRS, 10 million families took advantage of this tax deduction in 2009, the latest year of available data. Almost all are middle class. The average taxpayer claiming this deduction earned just over $53,000 annually. ATR estimates that the average income tax increase for the average family claiming this tax benefit will be $200 – $400 per year. To learn more about this tax, click here.
This is just a small example of how a simple, everyday, kitchen table decision has been fundamentally altered by the tax hikes in Obamacare. It does not even take into account the indirect effects of the rest of the tax hikes in the law, which will reduce family income and kill jobs.
ATR is a non-partisan coalition of taxpayers and taxpayer groups who oppose all tax increases. For more information or to arrange an interview please contact John Kartch at (202) 785-0266 or by email at jkartch@atr.org.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
12:21 pm
Frog. OCGA 16-3-23 and 16-3-23.1
http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/?title=16&chapter=3§ion=24
Repro
January 11th, 2013
12:22 pm
Jay, the Connecticut shooter had plenty of training. It just made him a better shooter.
The law needed is one that outlaws and rids assault weapons and high capacity clips from the population. Gradually such weapons will become completely unobtainable to everyone.
Tundra Dude
January 11th, 2013
12:22 pm
for whatever stupid assed reason the talk show/FOXBOTS are using Chicago for……
Cuz it reflects poorly on Obama and/or the Democrats.
The vast majority of their murders are drug turf-related.
Used to be, large gangs controlled large areas…..
then law enforcement locked up so many of the leaders,
so now there’s hundred of small gangs, all fighting to increase their market share.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:22 pm
harvey
“The whole purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect the citizenry from a tyrannical government. ”
I know that’s repeated a lot on tv and radio, but you may want to do a bit of independent research and see the concern not for a tyrannical government, but for a standing army.
Of course, the NRA and the gun manufacturers’ lobby would have a dickens of a time casting the US military in the same demonic light as they cast the US government, wouldn’t they?
It’s all about marketing.
Escaped from Email Purgatory
January 11th, 2013
12:22 pm
It should be hard (unconstitutional) to prohibit a law abiding citizen from gun ownership pending a competency test because gun ownership is a right, not a privilege.
Can’t really dispute your argument otherwise Bookman.
And as was your subject in a previous blog, it’s time for American to adjust the way we think about guns. No more romanticizing gun usage. No more promoting guns as a way to make a little man big. No more wrong-headed laws (i.e. Stand Your Ground) that give that little man legal cover from irresponsible use of his gun.
But you can’t keep guns away from bad people, so you shouldn’t deprive their potential victims from the most viable form of individual protection.
The best way for decent folks to protect themselves – if they so choose – is to own their own gun and have it at the ready when necessary.
Me? I’m not interested. Odds are I’d shoot myself or an innocent before putting the gun to its highest and best use of protecting me and mine from those intent on harming same.
Towncrier
January 11th, 2013
12:23 pm
“No serious gun law proposal in the wake of the Connecticut tragedy — and certainly no gun law that I would ever support — would attempt to disarm Herman or deny her the right to protect herself and her loved ones. That is simply not at issue.”
It would appear Obama thinks, or at least has thought, differently:
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2013/01/11/obama-opposed-gun-ban-exception-defend-home/
” Likewise, a .38 pistol kept for home defense is not a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity. Those distinctions are critical and easily drawn, both in law and in logic, and it’s important that they be recognized.”
I am unable to judge the degree or kind of one’s insecurity, but I believe there is a VERY strong argument to be made that the Constitutional right to bear arms codified in the 2nd Amendment is to ensure the freedom of “the people” against tyranny, foreign and domestic. Hence, I believe people should be able to arm themselves sufficiently to counter such a threat. You don’t have to be much of a student of history to know that anything can happen, including the “unthinkable”. I do, however, agree that one’s responsibility should be demonstrated in order to bear arms.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:23 pm
I little common sense for gun owners.
If you have a family member with mental issues, get your guns out of the house.
They usually use them on themselves but now they use them on kids.
cmac22
January 11th, 2013
12:24 pm
Let’s also make criminals pledge not to buy guns & ammo!!!
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:24 pm
oh, and harvey -
“They envisioned the day when our government would become over reaching and tyrannical, and that day might not be far off. So, I say, we keep our guns.”
So tell me, why this penchant for thinking you’ll have to shoot your Congressman or Senator, rather than just voting against them?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:25 pm
Fred — “Cool, so according to THAT logic I have a Constitutional “right” to all the Free beer I want.”
If you have an argument with the Founders’ logic in putting that Amendment in, then argue with them, not me.
“Great, go get my free beer Skippy and bring it by the house. And don’t dally, I’m thirsty.”
You might have the right to the beer, but you certainly don’t have the right to have it delivered by me.
Remember, Fred, you right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
12:25 pm
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
12:18 pm
Agreed but the last sentence is a bit too cynical to me…with 310,000,000 known guns, we are already at the point you mentioned…I don’t see any revolution…our culture is what, 250 years or so old almost…no way it changes remotely soon…I know that sounds despair-ish but I’m a practical kinda guy..
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:28 pm
cmac22
“Funny how obozo is protected by guns & his kids are protected by guns!! ”
You expect to be taken seriously when you pose that as a question?
“Hey folks, let’s stop Secret Service protection for the President and First Family. Great idea, huh?”
cmac22
January 11th, 2013
12:28 pm
Paul -
“So tell me, why this penchant for thinking you’ll have to shoot your Congressman or Senator, rather than just voting against them?”
Great book by Vince Flynn called Term Limits!!
markie mark
January 11th, 2013
12:29 pm
@stands – I stand by my statement. Just because some stupid marketeer attempts to make a silly assed point, I do not think that is a rational starting point for the discussion. And yes, I saw their stupid ad.
cmac22
January 11th, 2013
12:29 pm
Paul –
What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander!!
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
12:29 pm
Keep Up
From the law
(b) The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
…………………………………………………………………………….
guess you can shoot some one taking your stuff from you or your home.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:30 pm
You might have the right to the beer, but you certainly don’t have the right to have it delivered by me.
Remember, Fred, you right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.
You bring my damn beer or we’ll SEE where my fist rights begin and end. I may be fat and slow but I can STILL outrun a hover round. Now hurry up before I decide that I WON’T share……….
(all that earlier talk of steaks has me wanting to take the spoiled child out of Parkers on Ponce, mom’s out of town again at school so we save 1/3 in cost lol).
http://www.parkersonponce.com/
cmac22
January 11th, 2013
12:32 pm
Simple Truths
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
Who gets to decide what qualifies as “sane” and “responsible”?
Let’s limit voting to sane, responsible voters.
YES! YES! YES!
Krystal'sBalls
January 11th, 2013
12:33 pm
I truly feel the notion needs to be challenged that those who actually see a need for owning an AR-15 are somehow crazy or have some sort of “insecurity in their masculinity” or other silly things. I must first establish that I own a Bushmaster AR-15, now let me tell you why. By the way, I could have just as soon purchased a S$W or Colt model, so (media) get off of “Bushmaster”. It is merely a BRAND NAME. Now… let me ask a question. What do YOU live for? How valuable is the blessing of LIFE to YOU?? Here is MY answer. Life to me is EXTREMELY precious. I have a wonderful family and beautiful children, whom I cherish and desire to see finish college, marry, give me grandchildren and all of those things. I also feel that I have so much yet left to give to the world during my time here, so much still to accomplish.
I have always owned a couple of firearms (handguns mainly) and actually own a pump shotgun. I would have been perfectly content with those “small arms” (and they are classified as such by the U.S. military). HOWEVER, the truth and rather sad fact is that we live in an increasingly cruel world, where too often little to NO regard is given to people who are victimized by predators. Recall over the past few years many many reports on the local news of smash and grab burglaries and home invasions carried out by ROBBERY CREWS. Please recall multiple occasions of TWO, THREE or more ARMED individuals kicking down the doors of families while they are in the midst of having dinner, entertaining guests or sitting around the television…TYING THEM UP, PISTOL WHIPPING THEM, ROBBING and in some cases SHOOTING THEM.
THIS is the reason I added an AR-15 to my weapons compliment FOR “HOME DEFENSE”. You need the added capacity and presence to neutralize multiple people with bad intentions who have violated your domain. I make ZERO apologies to no one for making that decision, because I refuse to place my and my family’s destiny in the hands of those who have no compassion because they view a 42″ flat panel LCD as more important than our lives. You NEED that extra firepower and capacity in such a situation, and a “six shooter” just will NOT cut it! Again, what do YOU live for and how much do you value life? It is that simple for me.
Finally, that .38 revolver used by the mother with 5 of the six shots to the torso STILL was not enough to totally neutralize her perpetrator. Please take note of that fact as well and place in the context of my presented scenario. I’m just saying… education and honesty on ALL sides of the issue is in order.
markie mark
January 11th, 2013
12:33 pm
stands, for those of us who work for a living, there will always be long lags times to respond….sorry to try your patience…..and aquagirl…..if I need a gun to get my Man Card…..well, that aint what does it.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:34 pm
Towncrier 12:23
Any reason why lawyer Obama was opposed changing a state criminal code to codifying an affirmative defense to a municipal ordinance? Think it might provide a big loophole for some neer-do-wells?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
12:34 pm
frog, exactly. The problem is that idiotic laws like “stand your ground” create a situation where someone with an unreasonable belief will claim the “right” like the guy who shot the unarmed kids in another car in a parking lot in Florida.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:34 pm
“and that day might not be far off. ”
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand add another nutter to the list.
yes. government is soooooooo tyrannical that you’d better have your Glock because it’s REALLY going to protect you against an F-16
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:35 pm
I mean, let’s be honest … if government really IS that tyrannical, do you honestly think that you will be able to fight off the DoD??? really???
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:35 pm
cmac22
Term Limits?
I think Vince Flynn would be the first to roll his eyes at you –
(btw – I have signed copies of his books)
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:35 pm
Fred — “You bring my damn beer or we’ll SEE where my fist rights begin and end. I may be fat and slow but I can STILL outrun a hover round. Now hurry up before I decide that I WON’T share……….”
Denied. Bailiff, take the jackazz, um plaintiff into custody, please.
“(all that earlier talk of steaks has me wanting to take the spoiled child out of Parkers on Ponce, mom’s out of town again at school so we save 1/3 in cost lol).”
I’m thinking that the crabcake and a strip are the way to go.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:36 pm
“CRUEL BLOOMBERG TO RESTRICT PAIN PILLS AT HOSPITALS!”
Out of my cold dead hand.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:37 pm
cmac22
“What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander!!”
So now cmac22 advocates Secret Service protection for all US citizens.
Great idea there, cmac22 -
southpaw
January 11th, 2013
12:38 pm
“you’ll have to shoot your Congressman or Senator, rather than just voting against them?”
Only if the Congressman or Senator comes at me with a weapon. A good counter example is Gabby Giffords not threatening Jared Loughner with any weapon. Otherwise, shooting the Congressman/Senator’s goon squad is enough. I know, I know–they don’t have goon squads.
Yet.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:38 pm
USinUK
” if government really IS that tyrannical, do you honestly think that you will be able to fight off the DoD??? really???”
If you have the DVD of Rambo and a Bushmaster, the answer is “YES!!!”
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:40 pm
bloomberg is a dictator.
Get him cons.
Steve
January 11th, 2013
12:40 pm
As Piers Morgan pointed out last night, one can’t walk into a drugstore and buy 6 boxes of Sudafed. We have restrictions in a modern society. Why are guns immune to restrictions? Does the 2nd Amendment say that? Absolutely not.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:40 pm
K. Balls — “You NEED that extra firepower and capacity in such a situation”
Just out of curiosity, on how many occasions has that level of firepower actually been “needed” in your neighborhood in the last 25 years?
Gen. Buck Turgidson
January 11th, 2013
12:41 pm
Jay thank you for acknowledging the Melinda Herman incident. The story has been largely absent in the anti-gun mainstream media.
My biggest concern about having guns in schools, especially grade schools, would be keeping the guns away from little hands. A teacher/principal would literally have to wear her gun all day because it’s not something you can just drop in a desk drawer.
Towncrier
January 11th, 2013
12:41 pm
“I know that’s repeated a lot on tv and radio, but you may want to do a bit of independent research and see the concern not for a tyrannical government, but for a standing army.”
I would put the very same challenge to you – start with the English Bill of Rights (and the history behind it) and proceed to the contemporaneous statements made by various “founding fathers” in the late 18th century and then finish off by looking at the many state constitutions that incorporate the right to bear arms. But to set the stage for your research, let me quote no less a figure than Alexander Hamilton: “If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.”
The unfortunate fact is this debate (as in some others) is that Madison’s initial draft of some of the amendments (like the 2nd and 9th) formed a poor starting point (not being very well phrased) and that they never got entirely revised but were merely whittled away, rendering them more ambiguous and less useful. Hence the late judge Bork’s view of the 9th Amendment.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:42 pm
“If you have the DVD of Rambo and a Bushmaster, … and a really small penis … then the answer is “YES!!!””
… there … fixed your typo
Steve
January 11th, 2013
12:42 pm
My concern is giving guns to teachers who aren’t trained to use guns, or might not be mentally stable enough to deal with a gun. And yes, keeping them out of the hands of students would be a logistical nightmare.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:43 pm
“As Piers Morgan pointed out last night … ”
can’t stand … I mean cannot STAND … Piers Morgan … but, am glad to see him doubling down.
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
12:44 pm
The actual enforcement of the death penalty for all murderers….. 2 years tops from sentencing to injecting. Death sentence for meth dealers that are murdering our children. Quit coddling these animals.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
12:45 pm
indigo – Out of all the industrialized Western nations on Earth, we have, by far, the highest gun murder rate
and yet we don’t have the highest murder rate if you include everything from guns to hammers
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:46 pm
JHM: I get the strip for the rotter (they serve it with broccoli which she loves) and I get some fish or other seafood (the diet). Occasionally I’ll get a steak, but usually I’m too cheap to pay steak prices for a steak out. For that cash I want something “gourmet.”
Krystals Balls: You don’t need an AR-15, you need one of these……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD0PKDGlwiw
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
12:46 pm
Piers Morgan is in this country illegally and will soon be deported. there was a recent news article on this.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:48 pm
There is a dictator in NY City and I don’t see you cons taking him on.
Your argument for your guns is bs.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:48 pm
Towncrier
“I would put the very same challenge to you – start with the English Bill of Rights (and the history behind it) and proceed to the contemporaneous statements”
Nice deflection. Point was, the reasons for voting against a bill have less to do with the specifics than with the principles.
As far as your rabbit holes, as I posted yesterday, all one has to do is read Scalia’s majority and Stevens’s minority opinions in District of Columbia v Heller.
But what comes across is, you seem to put yourself in the group of those who think that our government of the people is somehow going to morph into a kingship and it’s the valiant gun owners who will save our Republic.
O-kaaaayyyyyy…….
Towncrier
January 11th, 2013
12:49 pm
“Any reason why lawyer Obama was opposed changing a state criminal code to codifying an affirmative defense to a municipal ordinance? Think it might provide a big loophole for some neer-do-wells?”
Any reason why you think the ban was NOT unconstitutional in the first place and why therefore someone with a JD in constitutional law would oppose it on those grounds alone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:49 pm
Towncrier
Sorry , that line of ” Point was, the reasons for voting against a bill have less to do with the specifics than with the principles.” was for another blogger.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:49 pm
Actually, our President said Peirs can stay.
Try to keep up cons.
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
12:50 pm
Time for the Dirty Birds to show up. Falcons 27 – Seattle 21.
Steve
January 11th, 2013
12:50 pm
LOL. Piers ain’t getting deported
the cat
January 11th, 2013
12:50 pm
usinuk-can you please expound on the requirement of having references before being allowed to purchase a gun? How exactly does that work?
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:51 pm
Seattle will beat the Falcons.
Georgia
January 11th, 2013
12:51 pm
Gun Safety should be an oxymoron for voters…..or do I mean it should be a red herring? Guns have a way of just goin’ off. For no reason. Please stop cleaning your guns in the kitchen, voters. Historically, Judges’ Rulings have been the same on all five million voter deaths by gun accidents: “Sometimes guns just kinda go off, like. . Next Case. No, stop, let me guess, you were in the kitchen cleaning your gun before supper…..(Yeahhhhhhh)……” and your wife started shouting about the mess cause she wanted to set the table……(Yeahhhhh)…..and then she was the stew…….(Yeahhhhh)……don’t feel bad son, sometimes guns just got a way of like goin’ off kinda sudden like……..(Yeah, that’s what happened. The.gun.just.kinda.went.off.sudden.like.)
St Simons - he-ne-ha Bootakook 2014
January 11th, 2013
12:51 pm
“…our culture is what, 250 years or so old almost…no way
it changes remotely soon…”
Stevie, in a few years, we won’t recognize the place.
Now part of that might be my alzheimers kicking in (Fred rimshot), but
trust the old injun on this one. Big change is coming soon.
Now, it might be the ocean washes me away and I wish i had stayed
in Atlanta, i don’t know what it is, but it’s coming,
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:52 pm
Actually Krystall’s Balls, I stand corrected. After watching more of that video, I think you would want an AA12 not the SAIGA-12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8
(I wonder if THIS is the guy who got shot recently (Keith Ratliff) and how THAT investigation will turn out)
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:52 pm
Towncrier
Heller was 2008.
Not exactly the same time Obama was in Illinois government.
But thanks for citing Heller, which some bloggers here have been adamant guarantees them a right to keep and bear arms!!!!
Not have a handgun restricted to their home for defense.
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
12:52 pm
that .38 revolver used by the mother with 5 of the six shots to the torso STILL was not enough to totally neutralize her perpetrator.
Sure it was. He stopped trying to get to her and posed no further threat. Oh, wait, that’s not good enough is it?
You’re showing your hand, in which you’re the hero of your home defense fantasy where you “totally neutralize” those who deserve it with “extreme prejudice” and all that Chuck Norris lingo.
It’s all about the Man Card.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
12:52 pm
I haven’t seen any suggestion that would actually reduce gun violence
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:53 pm
Fred — “JHM: I get the strip for the rotter (they serve it with broccoli which she loves) and I get some fish or other seafood (the diet). Occasionally I’ll get a steak, but usually I’m too cheap to pay steak prices for a steak out.”
Im my travels, I have often found fine steaks at outstanding prices close to where the beef is raised. For that reason, I recommend a visit to west or north Texas (rangeland) or the Texas Hill Country (Austin and surrounding areas) or even Kansas City.
I found some *fine* establishments in KC with quite reasonable prices and some GIGANTIC steaks with outstanding flavor. Of course, you probably won’t get the freshest seafood so far from the ocean, but if the beef is what you’re after, IMO you’ve got to go to the source.
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
12:53 pm
So our Dictator In Chief picks and chooses the laws he wants to abide by and they don’t suit him he just ignores them. Not abiding by the law is a criminal offense. Impeach Obama.
Krystal'sBalls
January 11th, 2013
12:54 pm
@JHM.
Well, I live in an area where I would have never expected I would have gunshots flying in my subdivision. That did not however stop that feom becoming a reality when “social networking” drew hundreds of people to party, many of which were riff-raff that got out of control and resulted in the gunshots. It also did not prevent my area from showing up on the news some years back when what was believed to be gangs made ot out our way and tore up many (occupied) homes in the subdivision. Now JHM, if I lived in SW/NW Atlanta, midtown, let’s just throw in South Fulton for good measure. These things take place more and more and in more places. No one is immune. You never know when it will be YOUR residence who’s “number is called”. As it is said. I would rather HAVE that extra firepower and never have to use it than to need it and NOT have it, which again I make no apologies for. You may not be granted a second chance by your captors. I will not take that chance. YOU can though. Great!
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
12:56 pm
Piers Morgan knowingly violated our laws and that’s just dandy with Prez Obama ‘ cause he’s a left of center SOCIALIST – just like Dictator Obama.
SwamiDave
January 11th, 2013
12:57 pm
Jay:
“…if I could pass just one gun law, it would be a law barring the sale of ammunition to anyone who cannot demonstrate that had taken and passed a gun-safety course within the last five years.”
If you would be willing to rescind the thousands of existing gun laws to replace with your “one law”, then you might have some takers. If you are proposing to add another (that will also be a nuisance to law-abiding citizens and ignored by criminals), then it would be met with a similar response to current proposals.
I do note the speed with which so many opponents of gun rights seek to classify those who disagree with them to be unfit. In the same breath, they mock those who identify the risk of what bureaucrats / politicians might do with firearms registration of law-abiding citizens.
-SD
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
12:57 pm
I ask again, what about HIPAA and Protected Health Information (PHI)? Right now, no one has access to any health records, including mental health, unless express permission is given by the patient?
What about my father? He had a “nervous breakdown” 40 years ago. Can he lawfully own a gun? He doesn’t have a criminal record.
So many questions, so few answers.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
12:58 pm
For that reason, I recommend a visit to west or north Texas (rangeland) or the Texas Hill Country (Austin and surrounding areas) or even Kansas City.
and Argentina
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:58 pm
getalife
January 11th, 2013
12:51 pm
Seattle will beat the Falcons.
++++++++++++++++++++
Leave. We don’t need you negative vibes.
Don’t be a hater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkoBbd4gSLY
DannyX
January 11th, 2013
12:58 pm
Uh oh Falcons fans…
Nate Silver predicts New England vs Seattle Super Bowl match-up.
Anyone know what unskewedpolls.com or Dick Morris are predicting?
Anyone going to the Socialist Dome on Sunday to watch the Falcons playoff game?
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
12:59 pm
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
12:46 pm
Piers Morgan is in this country illegally and will soon be deported. there was a recent news article on this.
Most of the regulars on here say Fox News has no credibility, but, want to quote Piers Morgan! haha
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:00 pm
Need a link showing where the Prez gets to pick and choose what laws he wants to enforce or ignore and what illegal aliens (Piers Morgan) should be deported or allowed illegally to remain in this country. There is no link because what Obama is doing is illegal.
Steve
January 11th, 2013
1:00 pm
Well you shur done told em good, Morality? !
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:00 pm
USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:42 pm
“If you have the DVD of Rambo and a Bushmaster, … and a really small penis … then the answer is “YES!!!””
… there … fixed your typo
++++++++++++++++++
My small penis has nothing to do with Rambo OR an AR 15. What’s your point? i need Steroids and an AR 15?
Trolls Bane
January 11th, 2013
1:01 pm
Here is my 2 cents:
1. Implement some sort of mental health screening starting in the teenage years, which is when a number of mental health problems begin
2. Using the “well regulated militia” language, and cite this in the bill, require some sort of military training everyone upon highschool graduation – assuming of course that those so trained are deemed mentally fit and have no history of violence. Require an additional two weeks of training for everyone in the community capable of bearing arms each year.
3. Instill a respect for human life and private property — this has to be done early in life … in grade school and at home. We need to move a way from our culture of violence
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:01 pm
K. Balls — “As it is said. I would rather HAVE that extra firepower and never have to use it than to need it and NOT have it, which again I make no apologies for. You may not be granted a second chance by your captors. I will not take that chance. YOU can though. Great!
Please don’t make assumptions about me, my residence, or my degree of preparedness for such an eventuality.
I simply asked you a question. There’s no need for you to become defensive.
IMO, many individuals who claim they “need” a large amount of weaponry to protect themselves, their families and their property from depredations don’t really need it at all, particularly given where they live and given other security measures they may have already taken. I simply asked you to clarify something about your circumstances in that regard.
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:03 pm
Twice Obama has put his hand on the Bible and sworn UNDER OATH to abide by and enforce the laws of the USA and twice he lied under oath. Impeach Obama.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:03 pm
DIA — “I ask again, what about HIPAA and Protected Health Information (PHI)? Right now, no one has access to any health records, including mental health, unless express permission is given by the patient? ”
Answered you already @12;17, top of page 3.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:03 pm
“Leave. We don’t need you negative vibes”
Just call em like I see em.
Bet on Seattle.
Towncrier
January 11th, 2013
1:04 pm
“Nice deflection.”
A deflection? I was challenging your understanding of the 2nd Amendment. And that is how you respond?
“As far as your rabbit holes, as I posted yesterday, all one has to do is read Scalia’s majority and Stevens’s minority opinions in District of Columbia v Heller.”
Nice ad hominen response. Zero points scored, however. BTW, I am still waiting on your rationale for believing that 1) the apostle Paul had “sexual hangups” (based on evidence) 2) gay marriage is permitted by the Scriptures despite there being no explicit discussion of anything but heterosexual marriage and 3) plain prohibitions of homosexuality by Paul in the NT should be ignored or dismissed because of belief # 1.
“But what comes across is, you seem to put yourself in the group of those who think that our government of the people is somehow going to morph into a kingship and it’s the valiant gun owners who will save our Republic.”
You must have studied very little history in school. You should review the history of the 20th century very carefully to see what “unthinkable” things actually happened. It’s funny that people who so zealously guard against restrictions on the 1st or 5th Amendments (like those in the ACLU) for FEAR that it may lead to all sorts of horrible things done by the government seem incapable of understanding how others have a similar fear with respect to the 2nd Amendment. Maybe it’s not funny at all. Maybe it’s something else, something far less positive.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
1:05 pm
Now, no one likes a good steak more than me and my family refuses to eat one in a restaurant. They much prefer my grill! But, the absolutely best steak I’ve ever had (and, it was probably a once-in-a-lifetime) was in Vegas this past summer at one of Wolfgang Puck’s restaurants. It was Wagyu (sp?) beef. I think it’s Australia’s Kobe. You’ve heard of “melt-in-your-mouth?” This literally did. The four of us all agreed it was the best meal we’d EVER had!
Paul
January 11th, 2013
1:05 pm
Towncrier
When you return – reread my posts – didn’t mean to come across as snarky or combative – just get a bit amazed at how some of the dots are connected. Like with that chain email and Facebook thing I saw about “Obama has secret plan for US Military to take your guns!!!!” when it was part of an Army MP course curriculum on preventing rioting and civil unrest after certain disasters. And it was enacted during Bush’s term.
Morality?
“So our Dictator In Chief picks and chooses the laws he wants to abide by and they don’t suit him he just ignores them. Not abiding by the law is a criminal offense. Impeach Obama.”
Okay…. just what crimes has he committed? And haven’t House Republicans aided him in that by not bringing forth Articles of Impeachment?
Steve
January 11th, 2013
1:05 pm
So, voting can kill people? This forum is pure comedy.
Erwin's cat
January 11th, 2013
1:05 pm
Bet on Seattle.
loser bet
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:06 pm
drop the tax on guns altogether.
raise the tax on ammunition by 5,000%
Hey, you can have all the guns you want, peeps.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:06 pm
E. Cat — “and Argentina”
Well, yeah, but I was trying to stay reasonable.
If you can afford to jet off to Buenos Aires for some dinner, good for you. And take me with you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:06 pm
Phil Gingrey on Todd Akin:
“… a woman’s body has a way of shutting down so the pregnancy would not occur. He’s partly right on that.”
Paul
January 11th, 2013
1:07 pm
Morality?
“Need a link showing where the Prez gets to pick and choose what laws he wants to enforce or ignore and what illegal aliens (Piers Morgan) should be deported or allowed illegally to remain in this country. There is no link because what Obama is doing is illegal.”
You mean, Hannity or Rush didn’t send you a link?!!?
For what they get paid, it’s the least they could do.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
1:08 pm
@stands – I stand by my statement. Just because some stupid marketeer attempts to make a silly assed point, I do not think that is a rational starting point for the discussion. And yes, I saw their stupid ad.
Ok. I appreciate your willingness to defend your statement, which was this:
And that is the type of silly-assed statement that prevents logical discussion
But I must ask: How is it “silly-assed” to point out something that you, yourself, acknowledge was not only technically correct but quite accurate?
Bushmaster really *was* marketing their weapon as a cure for diminished masculinity. Such marketing is quite obnoxious. It is rather difficult to ignore. Furthermore, it is part and parcel of the national attitudes we are told by most all sides (and I happen to agree) we need to adjust regarding responsible gun ownership.
I do not see how that prevents logical discussion. In fact, if one is willing to scroll past the more trollish comments here, you will see plenty of logical back and forth, right here.
And I will go one better. About my post @ 11.57: It was probably a tad beneath me to stand there shouting at you and weetamoe like that. I’ve found the other guy to be rather obnoxious in the past, and I am afraid that I allowed myself to determine a guilt-by-association with you as a result. For that, I apologize.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
1:08 pm
getalife
January 11th, 2013
1:03 pm
“Leave. We don’t need you negative vibes”
Just call em like I see em.
Bet on Seattle.
++++++++++++++++++++++
The only bet I’M making is that I’m having wings on my Green Egg for the game…….. unless I get a better offer and go somewhere. If you start driving at Midnight Saturday, you can easily make it in time for the game. Bring some Sal and Judy’s BBQ sauce if you come though……..
http://www.salandjudys.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=17&zenid=ccbe99f4a3762f2a2d3da330e6b4b9cb
or maybe some of their jarred sauce as well. I’ve never tried it before……..
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
1:10 pm
“The whole purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect the citizenry from a tyrannical government. Think Syria. The United States was founded by people who rebelled and fought against the British government control. They envisioned the day when our government would become over reaching and tyrannical, and that day might not be far off. So, I say, we keep our guns.”
harvey, I don’t actually disagree. But I’m not satified with the “collateral damage” that seems to happen everyday, as our neighbors and children and random strangers die in gun violence.
It’s a quandary, aint it…
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
1:10 pm
DIA — “It was Wagyu (sp?) beef. I think it’s Australia’s Kobe. You’ve heard of “melt-in-your-mouth?” This literally did. The four of us all agreed it was the best meal we’d EVER had!”
Wagyu and Kobe are both Japanese. And you don’t want to know what a steak costs in Japan, trust me.
IIRC, Wagyu’s a *breed* of cattle and Kobe refers to specific cuts from Wagyu catttle that are raised, treated and handled in certain prescribed ways.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
1:11 pm
Joe, missed your 12:17. That’s my point…docs and hospitals are forbidden from sharing that info with anyone! Again, I guess that part of hipaa can be amended?
Morality?
January 11th, 2013
1:11 pm
Limit guns to the sane.. good idea. Unfortunately you want the insane in D.C. to decide who is sane. That’s just a blank check to pick and choose who OBAMA decides should have or not have a gun based primarily on their loyalty to the SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
The Truth
January 11th, 2013
1:12 pm
One way gun usage could be eliminated is banning ammunition. If you follow the letter of the Constitution…”A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” You can bear arms… You just won’t have any ammunition to shoot. Not saying that I agree with this, but that would follow the letter of the Constitution.