Let’s limit guns to sane, responsible gun owners
Terrified by an intruder who had broken into her Walton County home earlier this month, Melinda Herman grabbed a .38-caliber pistol to protect herself and her two children. As the intruder drew closer to their attic hiding spot, Herman called upon her handgun training, practice and motherly protective instinct and fired six shots, five of which struck her target. The barrage drove the wounded intruder out of her home, where he was later arrested and hospitalized.
I do love a happy ending.
You can debate the statistics about how often guns kept in the home are used for good or evil. You can point out the many instances in which such weapons end up in the hands of children or criminals, or in which people mistake a loved one for an intruder, with tragic consequences. Those are facts that every would-be gun owner ought to know and weigh in their personal decision-making. But in this case, for Herman and her family, access to a firearm and the training to use it wisely worked out well.
Since the incident, opponents of gun-safety laws have seized upon Herman’s story as some sort of counterweight to the tragic mass murder of young children in Connecticut that is now driving a reassessment of our national gun laws. But the connection is tenuous at best. No serious gun law proposal in the wake of the Connecticut tragedy — and certainly no gun law that I would ever support — would attempt to disarm Herman or deny her the right to protect herself and her loved ones. That is simply not at issue.
Herman is a law-abiding, rational, trained adult, not a criminal or a person with mental-health problems. Likewise, a .38 pistol kept for home defense is not a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity. Those distinctions are critical and easily drawn, both in law and in logic, and it’s important that they be recognized.
In other words, let’s keep this reasonable and rational, on all sides of the issue.
Here in Georgia, for example, state Rep. Paul Battles of Cartersville has announced legislation that would allow an administrator in each school — at the discretion of school district leadership — to undergo annual state peace-officer firearm training and be certified to carry a weapon at school. I don’t have a serious problem with that approach, in large part because it is voluntary for districts and because it meets the basic common-sense test of limiting guns to responsible, trained people.
The biggest danger of such an approach is the false sense of security it might create. In the infamous 1999 shooting at Columbine High School, an armed police officer was on duty at the school but found himself outgunned by the two student perpetrators. Of the 13 innocent people killed that day, 11 died after the killers’ initial engagement with armed law enforcement.
The tragic case of Keith Ratliff, a self-described “gun nut” who was found murdered in his Carnesville office earlier this month, surrounded by high-powered weaponry, further demonstrates that guns, like laws, are at best an imperfect defense. There is no solution to such violence; no single answer.
However, limiting gun possession and ammunition purchase to responsible citizens who are trained in their proper use — people such as Melinda Herman — would go a long way in reducing the carnage and heartbreak. In fact, if I could pass just one gun law, it would be a law barring the sale of ammunition to anyone who cannot demonstrate that had taken and passed a gun-safety course within the last five years.
I don’t know why that’s so hard.
– Jay Bookman
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902 comments Add your comment
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
If you have two or three intruders in your house
Kind of what I mean by paranoia. Groups of people generally aren’t after you or your family. They are after your STUFF, and usually run like babies if you have just one gun.
But there are other methods that work. Pepper spray/mace has been shown to work on multiple people and disables them pretty effectively. Threat neutralized. And that’s just one example. Why do you have to KILL others that threaten you? Bloodlust?
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
What if there were two intruders?
OMG….What if it was the Zombie Apocalypse?
godless heathen
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
Mr. heathen, what is its purpose, except to kill many people very quickly? I ask as a serious question.
Recreational target shooting.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with (ahem) COMPENSATING for other shortcomings …
So what if it is. We don’t have freedom of compensation anymore?
TaxPayer
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
Sam’s Club only charged me $8.99 for a large deluxe pizza. I guess that haven’t got the word about Obamacare yet.
weetamoe
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
I should think that someone who believes that certain weapons are being marketed as a *cure for those insecure in their masculinity* should not be considered reasonable or rational. The kid who did the shooting in California yesterday had compiled a hit list a year before he took any action. School authorities and parents knew that he was a threat. Gabby Giffords knew her stalker and had been confronted by him several times in the years before he shot her and innocent bystanders. The sheriff was also aware that he was a threat and that the situation predated the TEA party for several years. In most of these cases the persons blamed are the ones who had noting to do with the shooting. As far as the individual right to self-defense, the lives of Obama’s children are no more precious than those of the Chicago kids caught in gang crossfire every week.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:27 am
Let’s limit the kinds of guns to “pop guns”.
If you can’t kill a deer with a slingshot, you ain’t worth #$%^!
Simple Truths
January 11th, 2013
11:27 am
“easily drawn, both in law and in logic”
Problem: Not a lot of logic in the lawmakers nowadays.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:27 am
especially not a steak tartare since it also has raw egg
meh, raw egg isn’t such a risk.
been ages since I indulged in steak tartare but I’m really craving it right now.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
11:27 am
““and WHERE and HOW those guns are stored” – Who’s going to go house-to-house to check this?”
to qualify for a license to OWN a firearm, you should undergo a house inspection where you show a police officer your gun locker to show where / how the gun will be secured. If someone accesses your gun and commits a crime, you will be charged for not keeping it secure.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:28 am
Fred: I meant fave cook-to-order, but also what’s your fave steak style now, I’m curious. I love Prime Rib and will also go for New York Strip. Don’t really like bone in mine.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
11:28 am
(oh, and to qualify for said license, you should also demonstrate that you’ve passed an accredited gun safety course)
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:28 am
godless: Recreational target shooting.
Gun ranges can hold on to those guns for you, and the ammunition, then.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
11:29 am
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:25 am
IMO Best burger at home involves ground 80/20 beef via Kitchenaide or even cuisinart…cut in small pieces and freeze somewhat in freezer before grinding. Take two patties, stick a block of cheese in the middle and press together…pan fry for seal and finish to desired temp in medium oven….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
11:29 am
Poor RB, still searching for proof that Obamacare has raised the price of a Pappa John’s pizza to $25.
But in an effort to cry about backing up his claims, he’ll cite any $25 pizza. 
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
11:29 am
“I see defining “responsible and sane” as a nightmarish, ACLU bonanza…”
I suspect any almost attempt at gun control from a mental health POV is doomed to fail on civil liberties grounds. If anyone wants to try to define a reasonalbe “sanity standard” for gun possession, have at it – you’re braver than I am.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:29 am
td
I want to take your guns. I want to take them and melt them
and never allow you to have them again. You would be safer.
I would be safer. The public would be safer. However since
the right to keep and bear arms was grandfathered into the
Constitution I do not believe even rescinding the 2nd
amendment would allow that but the government can tell
you what kind of gun you can have and where you can have
it if our elected representatives will get off their soapboxes
and do it.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 11th, 2013
11:30 am
Besides, Jay, what exactly are the “sides” of this gun issue? I’d really like to know?
Are we talking about a diamond, for example, with many many sides? Or is there maybe just a nice and simple two sides, one on the “left” and the other on the “right”?
The way I see it there are not really any sides to this issue at all. Slaughter implements have to be drastically reduced. Period.
Which means that the back of the National Child Slaughter R’Us Association (NRA) must be broken. Period.
And that ain’t gonna be easy.
So tell me. Where are those “sides” you keep speaking of?
Peadawg
January 11th, 2013
11:30 am
USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
11:27 am
Gotcha. Not a bad idea.
Would it be different for kids vs. no kids iyo?
Goldie
January 11th, 2013
11:30 am
Yearly psyche testing for all gun licenses to be renewed, and paid for by the gun owner out-of-pocket… that, and having to pay about $1,000 per bullet might just solve the problems we’re having with too many gun owners in America today. No more cheap bullets!
ATL Tiger
January 11th, 2013
11:30 am
If Melinda Herman possessed a 9mm with a 17 capacity round clip instead of a .38 6 shooter, would that be okay? Or would that be considered an ‘assault weapon’?
curious
January 11th, 2013
11:31 am
Requiring anyone wanting to purchase a handgun or semi-automatic rifle to follow the same procedure as someone wanting to buy a machine gun and you can legally own a machine gun.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:31 am
weetamoe: The kid who did the shooting in California yesterday had compiled a hit list a year before he took any action. School authorities and parents knew that he was a threat. Gabby Giffords knew her stalker and had been confronted by him several times in the years before he shot her and innocent bystanders. The sheriff was also aware that he was a threat and that the situation predated the TEA party for several years. In most of these cases the persons blamed are the ones who had noting to do with the shooting.
So what you’re saying is that there should have been LAWS that would have allowed people in BOTH CASES to take action, right?
As far as the individual right to self-defense, the lives of Obama’s children are no more precious than those of the Chicago kids caught in gang crossfire every week.
Logical fallacy linking security of our highest member of the executive branch and family (called liabilities by the intelligence community). If you think your family is at higher risk than most other families, you are free to contact the police and convince them that there is a mortal threat to your and your family’s lives that requires protection. If it’s legit, they DO that kind of stuff you know.
Simple Truths
January 11th, 2013
11:31 am
USinUK: “to qualify for a license to OWN a firearm, you should undergo a house inspection where you show a police officer your gun locker to show where / how the gun will be secured. If someone accesses your gun and commits a crime, you will be charged for not keeping it secure.”
I’m trying to determine if you are serious about this. That sounds like a big infringement.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
11:32 am
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
Most effective tactic to avoid home invasions in typical neighborhood is perimeter lighting. Bad guys will shy away and hit less risky target. Of course another tactic need be taken in addition by remote residences..
moonbat betty
January 11th, 2013
11:32 am
Given the state of the economy under Obama, the Obama pizza would be a yummy 99 cent Totino’s Pizza from the grocery store.
Cheese on cardboard – kind of descriptive of Obama’s presidency also.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:32 am
Finn McCool
If you can’t kill a deer with a slingshot, you ain’t worth #$%^!
………………………………………………………………………
I have killed a deer with a boat paddle, outlaw that I am,
and I ate it too.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
11:33 am
Dang it. I got off topic talking about food. It’s my fat boy weakness, sorry.
Gun Control: As a brain washed talk radio listening disciple of Neal I was all against Gun Control. Give them damn libruls and inch and they’ll be stealing my guns dammit.
But when I broke away and freed my mind I saw there were some common sense measures that NEED to be taken. The one Jay suggests is in my opinion too little. I think you should have to have training to buy a fire arm of ANY type as well as the ammo. It should require a refresher course EVERY YEAR. In the military you retrain and re-qualify on weapons EVERY YEAR. Well at least in the Army. Who knows what them civies in the blue suits (Air Force) do……….. if it’s a sane policy for our military, many of whom handle weapons on at least a weekly if not daily basis, then why not for us civilians?
As to JHM’s question about losing one’s sanity after the fact……… it’s a tough one. Remember how mad GMare got at me when I said that I thought that if old people could no longer pass drivers tests they should have their licenses revoked? Do we really want to tell a mentally unstable person that they have to give up their arms by next Tuesday or someone will come get them? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be the person responsible for getting those weapons lol.
So there is a forseeable flaw in the “system” that I don’t see a reasonable answer for, but that doesn’t mean we should just scrap everything.
I also like Brocephus’s fingerprinted Gun safe idea. He also linked one small enough to hold a fully loaded pistol right by your bed. It would take no longer to retreive your Dirty Harry .44 mag from that than it would from a holster with a strap.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:33 am
Stevie Ray: IMO Best burger at home involves ground 80/20 beef via Kitchenaide or even cuisinart…cut in small pieces and freeze somewhat in freezer before grinding. Take two patties, stick a block of cheese in the middle and press together…pan fry for seal and finish to desired temp in medium oven….
Stealing. Thanks Stevie
GT
January 11th, 2013
11:33 am
The debating skill of ignoring the elephant in the room, by using the few examples of the good results and saying that is worth the cost of the far larger number of violate deaths to good people cannot be how we govern this country. Put the real facts on the table and have a real discussion with common sense. This is not you against us unless you are one of the crazy ones that want to kill our children, this is us against them so get a clear picture make a clear decision that saves lives of innocent people which today’s conditions are obviously not doing.
godless heathen
January 11th, 2013
11:35 am
And for the record, if that gun were against the law to purchase, then purchasing it would mean you are a criminal. And if you buy it ahead of time because you’re worried confiscation will be part of the law, then don’t give me that “law abiding citizen” crap, since you are intent on breaking a perceived future law.
Is there a point in that idiocy, Adam? By law abiding citizen, I mean I abide by the gun laws. If the laws are changed, I will abide by them.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
11:35 am
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:28 am
You didn’t ask me but 48oz porterhouse with side salad or spinach….crab cake starter…just damn
gadem also known as Benghazi
January 11th, 2013
11:35 am
Alex Jones is a nut job….my god. How do people like that get a platform?
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:35 am
Fred: But when I broke away and freed my mind I saw there were some common sense measures that NEED to be taken
I’m pretty sure that’s where a majority of us are, Fred. It baffles me the people who are not and fight against it, sometimes like a rabid dog (see Piers Morgan’s interview of such a rabid dog). OMG CONFISCATION is all they think about it seems.
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
11:36 am
If, tomorrow, all high-capacity clips were magically replaced with 6-bullet clips, who would be most inconvenienced, and by how much?
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:36 am
Revolutions usually do not turn on the number of weapons held
by the populace.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:36 am
I should think that someone who believes that certain weapons are being marketed as a *cure for those insecure in their masculinity* should not be considered reasonable or rational.
Ok, I can’t post this link as evidence:
http://bushmaster.com/mancard/
because Bushmaster, finally, took it down.
However, it contained imagery such as this, as recently as a week or so ago.
http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/mncards.jpg
So weetamoe–what, pray tell, was the thrust of this particular marketing angle then, if not “cure for those insecure in their masculinity”?
Please explain.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:36 am
Stevie Ray: That SOUNDS good but I can promise I can’t fill myself with 48oz of meat in one sitting. No way!
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:37 am
godless: Is there a point in that idiocy, Adam? By law abiding citizen, I mean I abide by the gun laws. If the laws are changed, I will abide by them.
That’s all fine then.
I am disturbed by people who seem ready to “take on the government” over this issue. Something about “1776 happening again”
RB from Gwinnett
January 11th, 2013
11:38 am
Adam, “And your proof of such a pizza existing does exactly nothing to prove it’s because of Obamacare.”
I know that and you know that, but for some reason, Keep seems to think I can provide him proof today of something that won’t happen for another year.
And for the record, It might not make a Papa Johns pizza $25, but it is going to impact the price of it. Not owning a pizza business, I can’t tell you exactly how much it will be, but it won’t be zero and everybody is going to pay. Even those Wendy’s employees who are going to have to figure out how to make it on 28 hrs/week instead of 40. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/09/nebraska-wendy-franchisee-slashes-worker-hours-to-sidestep-obamacare/
You can boycott NE Wendy’s if you want to, but the one down the street from you, and the McD’s and “Mellow Mushroom, maybe. Or Savage Pizza. Or DaVinci’s” are all having the same conversation in the back room.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
11:39 am
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:27 am
Let’s limit the kinds of guns to “pop guns”.
If you can’t kill a deer with a slingshot, you ain’t worth #$%^!
++++++++++++++++++
REAL MEN (like me) sneak up on them and then slit their throats with a sharp knife. Now THAT’S hunting……..
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:39 am
I think it is criminal that so many fine men are subjected to
death by gun as they try to enforce our laws.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:42 am
Little has been said about the legal situation of the lady
who shot the intruder 5 times.
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
11:43 am
“And for the record, It might not make a Papa Johns pizza $25, but it is going to impact the price of it. Not owning a pizza business, I can’t tell you exactly how much it will be, but it won’t be zero and everybody is going to pay”
Way to back down, RB! It takes a man to admit when he’s wrong. I’m proud of you.
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
11:43 am
REAL MEN (like me) sneak up on them and then slit their throats with a sharp knife. Now THAT’S hunting……..
Only if you walk five miles in a blizzard uphill both ways to kill it.
markie mark
January 11th, 2013
11:44 am
“a semi-automatic high-velocity assault weapon with a large-capacity magazine being marketed as a cure for those insecure in their masculinity:
And that is the type of silly-assed statement that prevents logical discussion
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:45 am
Little has been said about the legal situation of the lady
who shot the intruder 5 times.
Type away. I’m all ears. (I’m not sure of your point, but I suspect it’s a valid one.)
nelson
January 11th, 2013
11:45 am
Life expectantcy is 75 for men. Lowest of all the wealthy nations. The leading reason sited for the low number was gun violence, next, heart dsease. Those lucky enough to make it to 75[my self] the out look for the next several years is better. That is because, seniors have poorer eyesight which means they hit other people less frequently. Sooooo put away those six shooters pardner.
curious
January 11th, 2013
11:46 am
And I actually thought there would be serious discussion on this issue.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
11:47 am
Fred — ” In the military you retrain and re-qualify on weapons EVERY YEAR.”
When I was active-duty Army, all soldiers were required to qualify with their primary weapon via a documented record fire at least once per year. If you wanted to qualify or retain your qualification in a different weapon, you had to do that once per year as well.
However, it was common practice to have combat arms soldiers– particularly infantryment of any sort — requalify *quarterly.* Friends I had in the infantry battalions said that ‘range days’ were major screw-off time; if you got at the head of the line and requalified quickly, you could piddle around doing nothing for the rest of the day while everyone else qualified.
Well at least in the Army. Who knows what them civies in the blue suits (Air Force) do………..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
11:47 am
I know that and you know that, but for some reason, Keep seems to think I can provide him proof today of something that won’t happen for another year.
Funny, proof did not seem to matter when you stated it was a fact and that Pappa John’s said so in your anti-Obamacare rants.
Have you proven that $6/gallon gas by Obama’s second term claim yet?
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:48 am
And that is the type of silly-assed statement that prevents logical discussion
I will say it again–that is EXACTLY how Bushmaster had been marketing this particular firearm. Jay posted that “silly-assed statement” because I provided him with the advertisement’s graphic, which he substituted for the generic gun photo.
here it is again, since you seem to have missed it:
http://disinfo.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/mncards.jpg
I’ve read some truly lousy pro-gun arguments and scroll past most, but this complete denial of the reality of gun marketing needs to be addressed.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:49 am
Stands
for starters if found that she was not life threatened she can be
charged with murder/manslaughter or many lesser charges.
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
11:50 am
here it is again, since you seem to have missed it:
Well, no Man Card for markie mark.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
11:51 am
Adam: (of gun topic, on steak topic): i like a bone in rib eye but hate to pay X dollars for a freaking bone lol. Unfortunately as I am on a diet I don’t need the fat of a rib eye any more. My
spoiled completely rottenlovely daughter will NOT eat fat and somehow came across New York Strip “somewhere” (of course I didn’t buy her one). I have come to like a good one of those or a rib eye. I could never eat Stevie’s 48 oz porterhouse although that’s a nice cut. I will NOT eat a steak that is over medium and really don’t care for it even that done. I’m taught my daughter the same thing lol. Growing up my dad cooked steaks until they were DEAD which is why they had to have marinade, basting, and steak sauce, hre cooked every bit of flavor out of them bless his heart.Stevie (and dB): I got a kitchenaide for Xmas and it’s a toss up over which attachment i buy first, the pasta cutter or the meat grinder. I want them both. Along with ground beef (or deer if I find another Daniel Boone friend) I want to make my own sausages.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
11:51 am
When gun enthusiasts talk about “freedom,” they have something specific in mind—freedom from government oppression. In their view, unfettered access to firearms is the key ingredient to protecting individual rights from overreaching by government. They argue that the only way to keep centralized authority in check is to ensure that individual citizens retain the capability to confront the government with force of arms. As NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre has said, “The people have a right to take whatever measures necessary, including force, to abolish oppressive government.”
This idea, which we call “insurrectionism,” is part of a broader ideological perspective that opposes a strong, activist government in nearly all of its forms. Insurrectionist philosophy degrades the democratic values and institutions that protect all of the freedoms we enjoy as Americans. Gun lobby extremists have been perfectly willing to trample on any freedom that gets in the way of their pursuit of unrestricted private access to firearms (i.e., property rights, access to justice, freedom of information, public safety, etc.). This toxic mix of ideology and firepower has moved beyond rhetoric and resulted in real violence in our country.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
11:51 am
RB — “You can boycott NE Wendy’s if you want to, but the one down the street from you, and the McD’s and “Mellow Mushroom, maybe. Or Savage Pizza. Or DaVinci’s” are all having the same conversation in the back room.”
Then again, if they were already providing proper benefits for their employees, it wouldn’t be an issue.
BTW, Costco called. They said they’re more successful than you and they’re not raising prices due to the ACA.
Regnad Kcin
January 11th, 2013
11:53 am
“for starters if found that she was not life threatened she can be
charged with murder/manslaughter or many lesser charges.’
Not sure of the standard for GA, but the standard I’m familiar with is “fear for one’s life,” which is difficult to refute, and most LE officers don’t try.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:54 am
if found that she was not life threatened she can be
charged with murder/manslaughter or many lesser charges.
well, ok. Are you saying that such legal possibilities need to be addressed, modified?
I don’t want to go too far afield here, but just how much leeway should a person have in order to use deadly force? For the sake of argument, I think it is a given that once someone has used any type of force to enter someone’s premises — perhaps excluding the opening of an unlocked door, perhaps — that person should be considered a hostile physical threat, and that reasonable means to neutralize the threat should be legal.
However, these issues have been with us for many, many years.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:54 am
JoeHusseinMama
I qualified as Expert (got a ribbon) in Basic training with
a real crappy M1 carbine due to my experience as a civilian and
one other time during my 4 years. We were not allowed to possess
firearms on base on or off duty but could if we lived off base.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:55 am
Fred: My
spoiled completely rottenlovely daughter will NOT eat fat and somehow came across New York Strip “somewhere” (of course I didn’t buy her one).Hehehehe,
Yeah I am with you on that stuff. Anything beyond medium is just… too much. Like leather, as some say.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
11:56 am
Dang these GOP no nothings
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
11:56 am
R. Kcin — “Not sure of the standard for GA, but the standard I’m familiar with is “fear for one’s life,” which is difficult to refute, and most LE officers don’t try.”
I understand that the perp fessed up readily to the arresting officers.
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
11:57 am
Well, weetamoe?
Marky Mark?
Given the irrefutable evidence presented to you, are either of you man enough to admit you were incorrect about what Jay had asserted?
.
.
/drive-by, back later, likely
Jm
January 11th, 2013
11:58 am
“Let’s limit guns to sane, responsible gun owners”
Doesn’t really exist.
Ted Turner wouldn’t be able to go hunting anymore.
And that is unacceptable in my view.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:58 am
stands
stand your ground addresses that situation but it is not proven that
the intruder would actually have harmed anyone. Personally I
would have reacted as she did but I am aware how that reaction
can easily put you in jail or in a civil suit which gun toters never
acknowledge.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
11:59 am
Re: Pizza, I believe Papa John’s said they would have to raise prices by 14 cents per pizza. Frankly, I find it appalling that anyone would consider that to be some sort of onerous change.
southpaw
January 11th, 2013
11:59 am
Goldie @11:30
So only the rich should be able to get the ammo to defend themselves? And are you willing to pay the extra taxes for our Armed Forces to afford your proposed $1,000 bullets?
mm
January 11th, 2013
12:00 pm
The cons think we have a right to guns, but don’t have a right to healthcare.
They translate the constituion the same way they translate the bible – to fit their ideology.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:00 pm
Simple Truths and Peadawg –
That is how you get a gun license here in the UK – you have to have character references (helps week out the nutters) … and, yes, a police officer comes to your house to see where / how you will store it. Guns have to be kept in metal lockers that are affixed to a solid wall (such as an exterior wall), so couldn’t easily be jimmied.
Additionally, they also want to know where you keep the keys to the locker.
shall we compare gun death statistics??
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
12:00 pm
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
11:51 am
First, a 48oz porterhouse is quite edible (i’m tall and lanky)if you just order the steak and no starch…I like to eat my salad after…don’t be a sissy, give it a shot…don’t waste time on US Choice, special store brands (ie Wholefoods…although not awful but marbling is never to my taste) US Prime….you will feel soiled after you buy it (Star Provisions is one outlet) but I only do it once a year or so..of course I just returned from NYC and had a 48oz’er at Del Friscos on the company..
Second, I prefer using cuisinart for burgers…less arduous…I only used my a couple times for sausage and burger once…the pasta attachment is solid…
Most importantly, you have to give your Kitchenaide a name as you will grow to have an intimate relationship only rivaled by that with your knives…
Dave
January 11th, 2013
12:01 pm
Ok Dorkman…..please explain how you know if someone has met the standards for “limiting gun possession and ammunition purchase to responsible citizens who are trained in their proper use — people such as Melinda Herman — would go a long way in reducing the carnage and heartbreak. In fact, if I could pass just one gun law, it would be a law barring the sale of ammunition to anyone who cannot demonstrate that had taken and passed a gun-safety course within the last five years.” Are you gonna require the gun holder to pay for a test every five years and if they fail to renew thru the test….are you gonna send the Army in to snatch his or her’s personal property? Then lets add you comment about sanity….someone could be sane 1 yr and crazy as a mocking bird the next…it’s against the law to release medical info…..how do you propose to get his gun….
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:02 pm
curious
January 11th, 2013
11:46 am
And I actually thought there would be serious discussion on this issue.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Really? Why would you think that? This issue is crazy and makes people do and say crazy things. On one hand you have the crazy’s who want to take away all guns and on the other hand you have the crazies who think ANY laws to make us safer are just one more step to take away all guns.
No one will give OR take. Look at the stupid crap going on in Washington right now. Is there ANY of it that makes sense? Hell no, all I’ve seen is hysterical knee jerk reaction-ism. Has anyone proposed something similar to the little bit of regulating Jay proposed here (which I thought was too little lol)?
Look at the comments from the far right wing nutcases about the little Jay proposed. See anything meaningful in them? I’m just surprised that we are 2 pages in and some jack ass hasn’t tossed out Chicago, for whatever stupid assed reason the talk show/FOXBOTS are using Chicago for………
Tundra Dude
January 11th, 2013
12:03 pm
What if one has pharmaceutically-enabled sanity…..
buys a bushmaster…then stops taking his meds….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
12:03 pm
Stand your ground did not address any situation that has ever truly arisen except in some gun nut’s NRA talking point mind. The law has long provided that if you have reasonable fear then you may use force.
Of course if your fears are unreasonable, then you should NOT be able to use force.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
January 11th, 2013
12:03 pm
that should be weed out the nutters … not week them out …
UNCLE SAMANTHA
January 11th, 2013
12:03 pm
The cons think we have a right to guns, but don’t have a right to healthcare.
ILLOGICAL LIBERAL LOGIC
the constitution protects the right to bear arms
it does not protect the RIGHT TO HAVE HEALTHCARE PROVIDED TO YOU
cons believe everyone has the right to purchase or take a job to obtain the healthcare of their CHOICE
too bad liberals never took those logic courses in college
F. Sinkwich
January 11th, 2013
12:04 pm
“In fact, if I could pass just one gun law, it would be a law barring the sale of ammunition to anyone who cannot demonstrate that had taken and passed a gun-safety course within the last five years…”
I assume that would require a government document stating such including an ID number of some sort to be entered into a POS terminal recording the transaction. It’s to ensure compliance, don’t cha know.
I kinda like anonymity though. Of course my CCW doesn’t provide that, and since I had to be subjected to that background check thing when I purchased my handgun, the government knows i have it.
However, I own a number of other weapons very few people know I have. Certainly not the government. If I have to produce such documentation, wouldn’t the government know the type of firearms in my possession, or at least a pretty good idea?
If so, I don’t like that. I also don’t like the risk of being put on some list should I purchase a thousand rounds as opposed to a box of fifty.
Aquagirl
January 11th, 2013
12:05 pm
I’m just surprised that we are 2 pages in and some jack ass hasn’t tossed out Chicago
Oh yes they have. Our fright-wingers are reliable, if nothing else.
Georgia
January 11th, 2013
12:05 pm
Jay asked us about gun safety legislation, so…….guns just have a way of just goin’ off, and no safety training can stop it. Guns are a trip mechanism that relies on a Rube Goldberg series of events that can be accomplished just be having your face in the way of the barrel. Gun safety? How much safety do you need to mistake a human being lying in a beach chair for a deer? That’s what happened to a frat-bro of mine (1970) when he went deer hunting and decided to bring the chair along to just lie and wait for some luck. There is no gun safety that can thwart a gun just goin’ off. Empty guns go off all the time. Guns don’t kill people, they just kinda go off, sometimes, that’s all. Look, only a lunatic can stop a lunatic. You see, some more-heroic lunatics kill themselves first, before killing anyone else and I like to only see the good in people and I like to think that the motive was to preserve others’ lives. A suicide might be motivated by the blind rage to kill others, but the good in the suicide victim maybe lets him save his own soul, I don’t know. What is love but laying down your life for another voter? Patriotically, we lose more voters to gun accidents than to mass murder. Far, far more voter deaths occur when those guns just go off, without nobody doin’ nuthin’. “Hey, my gun’s jammed. I’ll try thisKRABOOM! oh that’s grim. Oh well, I …..I……I’m a member of the NRA!! I’ve got my rights. Too bad if you’re dead, it was an accident.” Judge’s ruling: Sometimes guns just go off. Next case. Goin’ huntin’??
UNCLE SAMANTHA
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
12:03 pm
Stand your ground did not address any situation that has ever truly arisen except in some gun nut’s NRA talking point mind. The law has long provided that if you have reasonable fear then you may use force.
Of course if your fears are unreasonable, then you should NOT be able to use force.
====================================================================
that will be the FOCUS on the George Zimmerman trial for the death of Trayvon Martin
does getting punched and having your head hit to the ground justify use of a concealed firearm?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
11:58 am
I think another aspect of gun issue that seems elusive is that fact that we have 310,000,000 known firearms in our country….
I remain convinced that no knee jerk political reaction or government reaction will keep these incidents from occuring with same frequency. IMO the only real solution is to keep intruders out…perimeter motion detector devices enabled during school hours (new technology needed)would be effective to keep bad guys out of schools. Malls and other places will need different angle..those are a puzzle.
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
” limiting gun possession and ammunition purchase to responsible citizens who are trained in their proper use — people such as Melinda Herman — would go a long way in reducing the carnage and heartbreak. ”
Heh, heh, heh…. I’d just love to hear the NRA’s line: “No way! We want crazy nuts able to buy guns and ammo, just like they do now!!!
the cat
“JHM-that is a good question and I hope there is reasonable discussion. To go a bit further to your point, what about a returning veteran that has PTSD?”
Actually, it doesn’t really apply. See, the NRA pushed a provision in a Defense Authorization Act making it illegal for commanders who are concerned if one of their soldiers who is at risk for suicide from asking if he has a gun. Evidently in the NRA’s view, soldiers blowing their brains out is a small price to pay.
0311
“3) If I could pass just one vehicle law, it would be a law that required all new vehicles (made or imported in the United States) to have a computer chip restricting the top speed of that vehcile to 65 mph. It would save thousands and thousands of lives.
I don’t know why that’s so hard.”
Except for the fact we have 85 mph speed limits….
Adam
“And anyway, only CRIMINALS break speed limit laws. Surely that means we don’t need speed limit laws, right?”
Evidently, there’s a big part of “What part of ILLEGAL don’t you understand” some of these folks don’t….. understand!.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
The Castle doctrine also permits the use of deadly force in defense of one’s home.
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
mm
January 11th, 2013
12:00 pm
The cons think we have a right to guns, but don’t have a right to healthcare.
They translate the constituion the same way they translate the bible – to fit their ideology.
++++++++++++++++++
Wow. Really? Here we have another post in the running for most insipid of the day……….
Could you please direct me to the part in our Constitution or Bill of Rights that says we have the right to Obamacare? mind if I do something else while I wait, because I think you will have to do some lying, re-writing, or some SERIOUS campaigning to get that amendment put in there before you answer……
St Simons - he-ne-ha Bootakook 2014
January 11th, 2013
12:08 pm
Aquagirl – “You know Republicans would oppose this because
“sane and responsible” eliminates so many of them.”
hot damn, 3 chords and the Truth right there, girl.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 11th, 2013
12:09 pm
Uncle Sam, it’s too bad you are not a rational poster capable of intelligent conversation. I would discuss the many factors you failed to include in your assessment as well as your skewed assessment of Trayvon Martin’s right to defend himself and other assumed facts.
DownInAlbany
January 11th, 2013
12:10 pm
As I’ve said before, I support background checks for gun purchases. I’ve had background checks before. The only question that I have about the mentally ill being excluded from purchasing/owning guns. There is the small issue of the Health Insurance Portability and Affordability Act (HIPAA) of 1996. A mental illness, as well as, well, a bunionectomy, for that matter is “protected” under this act. So, how are law enforcement agencies to gain access to this info? I guess the law(s) could be amended?
Let’s take this a step further, my father had a “nervous breakdown” about 40 years ago. He admitted himself and got things straightened out. He held a good job, retired early and now, at 74 can still physically out-work me. He has never had an violent outbursts, never been arrested. He does not drink, smoke or take drugs. He has two gun safes full of guns and ammo. He doesn’t hunt anymore, doesn’t carry a weapon in his truck, etc. Hell, he’d probably have to find the combination to open the safes. He just likes guns. Why? I don’t know. Some people collect snow babies, some collect guns! Because of his “mental” issues 40 years ago, would he no longer be able to purchase or own guns? Who makes that determination?
Also, there is a gun show in Albany tomorrow. I have only been to one in my life. I don’t need / want another gun, I’ve got plenty of ammo. But, I’m going tomorrow just to see for myself if the so-called “gun show loophole” exists. If anyone cares, I’ll report back.
Good debate, for the most part!
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
January 11th, 2013
12:10 pm
AQUAGIRL
I don’t see Chicago as being a political issue. It is however an issue that will not likely be served by anything being discussed today. Perhaps cash for guns exchange may alleviate some but those streets are basically war zones…More jobs may help but I don’t see anything on the table or on the horizon that will contribute toward that outcome..
Joe Hussein Mama
January 11th, 2013
12:12 pm
Fred — “Could you please direct me to the part in our Constitution or Bill of Rights that says we have the right to Obamacare?”
It’s riiiiiight next to the part that says “right to life.”
Actually, here:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Fred ™
January 11th, 2013
12:12 pm
UNCLE SAMANTHA
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
that will be the FOCUS on the George Zimmerman trial for the death of Trayvon Martin
does getting punched and having your head hit to the ground justify use of a concealed firearm?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Does being stalked for blocks in the dark by an armed man justify you confronting him and smacking him in the head before he attacks you?
I guarantee that if that Jack Ass had been stalking ME he would have been confronted as well. Oh wait, YOU think it’s a crime to be black and walking down the street so Jack ass was justified EVEN THOUGH THE POLICE TOLD HIM TO STOP.
Hmmmmmmm more than one jack ass here…….
Paul
January 11th, 2013
12:12 pm
Stevie Ray
If you can get a whole untrimmed brisket where you live, try grinding that twice and using it for ‘burgers.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
12:12 pm
cons believe everyone has the right to purchase or take a job to obtain the healthcare of their CHOICE
What about people who are trying their hardest but can’t find a job? And what about people who cannot work for whatever reason? Is that all to fall to charity, f*** it if they don’t have enough money from donations?
A report came out recently that even wealthy white males who do everything they are “supposed to do” health wise are less healthy than the same demographic in about 10-20 other post modern nations. The U.S. is unhealthy across the board, regardless of being poor, health choices, etc. And yet we pay more in total costs for it.
There is a reason to believe that the government can and should have a significant role in health care.
RB from Gwinnett
January 11th, 2013
12:13 pm
“Way to back down, RB! It takes a man to admit when he’s wrong. I’m proud of you.”
For the record, I never claimed Papa Johns pizza would be $25. Yes the conversation was about PJ so one could infer I was speaking for/about them (even though my comment also included hamburgers….), but never did I state that PJ’s pizza’s would be $25 as a fact.
Adam
January 11th, 2013
12:13 pm
LUNCH
stands for decibels
January 11th, 2013
12:14 pm
But, I’m going tomorrow just to see for myself if the so-called “gun show loophole” exists. If anyone cares, I’ll report back.
I care. I’ll be interested in what you find. Mr. Downin.
/drive-by
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 11th, 2013
12:15 pm
Well, that woman that shot the intruder five times just goes to show you don’t mess with a mama with kids. I reckon the crook must of had an awful hard head to take five shots in it and still not die. There ain’t nothing wrong with GA that this woman with her gun and the missus with a frying pan can’t handle.
I see where this preacher that had a sermon a few years ago against the Gays got sort of disinvited from the swearing in of the Kenyan Muslim Socialist. All I know is, you better not say or write anything that can be held against you. There’s always some nut out there that has a whole library he can dig thru to find out something you done or said 20 years ago. He’ll drag it out and use it to prove you’re a prevert that ought to get the Death Penalty right after you’re drug thru the mud. That’s why I’m awful careful about what I write on here. There’s no doubt there’s somebody reading this blog right now that’s clipping and snipping and filing away everything for use later. People like that are worse than a woman about recalling little things that most people don’t give a second thought to. Heck, the missus still brings up me forgetting our 2nd anniversary, and that was almost 40 years ago. You can be feeling pretty good about yourself and putting on a show and then you hear that loud voice saying “Remember when you forgot about our 2nd anniversary?”
Anyhow, I’m hauling and lugging and getting y’all ready to swap weird music tonight. Have a good p.m. everybody.
harvey
January 11th, 2013
12:15 pm
The whole purpose of the 2nd amendment is to protect the citizenry from a tyrannical government. Think Syria. The United States was founded by people who rebelled and fought against the British government control. They envisioned the day when our government would become over reaching and tyrannical, and that day might not be far off. So, I say, we keep our guns.
St Simons - he-ne-ha Bootakook 2014
January 11th, 2013
12:16 pm
we all know what this is about.
and there’s no way around it, NRA gun-nuts
there’s no way THAT kid should’ve had access to THAT gun. The End
Michael
January 11th, 2013
12:17 pm
The army and the marines spend months training soldiers before they are deployed to a battlefield. Firing the weapon is a small portion of that training. Equally important is the training in how function as a unit, how to store the weapon safely, and how to distinguish between targets and innocents. Police receive similar training. The repeated statements here that knowing how to fire the gun is sufficient training is absurd.
Years ago my 6 year old son got in our car, started the engine, and drove into the bushes. He probably had as much training in driving (by watching us) as many gun owners do with their basic gun training – i.e. they know where the trigger is and where the bullet comes out.
I remember in the service coming back from the firing range at the end of the day. Another member of our unit said, “I am now probably the most dangerous person in the navy.” I didn’t think about it a lot, but it is now clear that the weapons available today require a lot more training than pointing and shooting.
The NRA proposes additional spending to provide security at schools. If that is caused by the prolifieration of guns, then gun owners should pay that expense. They can be required to buy liability insurance like car owners, or they can pay a gun tax. Either way, it can start at $4 billion per year, until we figure out the total cost of medical and death benefits caused by guns in America. Auto insurance companies have figured this out pretty well, so I’m confident they are up to this task.
barking frog
January 11th, 2013
12:17 pm
Keep Up
Are you saying that you can shoot someone who enters your home
without being subjected to adjudication or that stand your ground did not attempt
to eliminate that requirement ?