Who wins a GOP civil war? The Democrats do

Think Sarah Palin will look better without her nose?

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The Dixiecrats were never meant to be a part of the Republican party or any other party for that matter. They should secede from the GOP.

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The members of the GOP that are willing to work with the Democrats for the good of the people and the country are free to do so. It’s their choice.

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I think the Foolish Clown Party will succeed well in the south. The NRA leadership can join in with them.

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@Georgia on my mind…

“As long as the Democrat Party remains united and focused on the needs of the lower and middle class Americans, the country will continue to evolve and progress.’

From the CBS website MoneyWatch (no friend of the GOP) :

“The “fiscal cliff” clash in Washington may leave middle- and lower-income Americans paying more in taxes while preserving a range of tax breaks for various industries and businesses.

It’s a regressive tax: The higher the income, the smaller percentage the increase represents. For everyone, meanwhile, it’s a net increase.”

-So Obama got everything he wanted out of the deal…high-fived all the Democrats in Washington, and still the “lower” and middle classes got the shaft.

Wow…that’s progress!

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It has long been no secret there is disagreement within the GOP and it raised its head highly with Obama’s first win. The talk during that time was a third party would guarantee Obama’s second win as a new third party did not have the ground game sctructure to compete. That theory is now out the window as obviously the GOP does not have the ground game either.

Conservatives do not want more compromise with Democrats as all one has to do is look where Democratic leadership with compromise from the Right has gotten us.

The idea of becoming more like the Left to have a chance of winning is ridiculous driven by Left wing propaganda.

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to Granny G.
the goal is not to destroy the president; it is to keep him from damaging the country and spending it into oblivion

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it is to keep him from damaging the country and spending it into oblivion

It’s foolish claims like these that show why the GOP is falling apart

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“the goal is not to destroy the president; it is to keep him from damaging the country and spending it into oblivion”

Parrot, not once, not one single time has Obama threatened to change parties and become a Republican.

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I can’t resist.

“Republicans hate everyone.”

No, just Progressives and bleeding hearts.

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CBS website MoneyWatch (no friend of the GOP) :

No? Who is it a friend of, then?

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Jay, I’ve been saying, for some time now, that a third Party is becomming more and more likely.

Your response, and those of others here, has been to ridicule me.

But, now that the great pundit Josh Kraushaar is saying something similar, you now think it’s not so ridiculous after all.

Looks like I’m not quite as dumb as you and others think.

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**keep him from damaging the country and spending it into oblivion**

That’s right, the repubs have done a bang up job all by themselves…

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I think the tea party would make a great turd party.

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Unfortunately, the Republicans had rather see the country go into oblivion than to compromise with the Democrats. Each party needs to give a little.

George wallace’s insane resistance to intergration just accelerated the process.
The NRA’s refusal to help develop sensible solutions to gun control will eventually have the opposite effect.

The Military has been successful because they adapt to new policies and make them work rather than stomping their feet and pouting.

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http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx

I’m actually a bit surprised.

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The GOP will attempt to purge itself of the obstructionists even if
it means giving up House seats to the Democrats in 2014.

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One more thing – it was not exactly a Reagan win, now was it? Plus, it was not a win that supports the fundamental changes Obama and some here want to make. It’s tearing the Country apart.

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Michelle Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, Fox and Friends, Victoria Jackson, Orly Taitz, Rick Perry, Herman Cain, Pat Robertson, Sean Hannity, Ted Nugent…

If the Republicans split up who gets the children?

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JohnnyReb

January 10th, 2013
8:38 am

One more thing – it was not exactly a Reagan win, now was it? Plus, it was not a win that supports the fundamental changes Obama and some here want to make. It’s tearing the Country apart.
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Piffle

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TiredOfIt – that was a good one! Made me smile this early in the morning even without coffee.

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I don’t take it as my taxes going up, just going back to where they should be.

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Johnny Reb
It’s tearing the Country apart.
………………………………………………
I remember the Johnson era, Vietnam, Medicare, street front lawyers, cries
were that it was socialism/communism but the most vocal against Medicare
at the time will rip your arm off if you touch it now. The USA is stronger than
politics and media.

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And you’d better believe that if Mitt had won with ANY percentage, 48%, 50%, 50.6%, every con this side of the Himalayas would be shouting from the rooftops how the country has spoken and Mitt has a mandate to do what he wants.

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Republicans are like the Irish we will fight with anyone.

If no one is available to fight we fight amongst ourselves.

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SBinF – I agree, the media is forcing the Republicans to make all of these crazy statements. Who knew!

So to JHunt163, guess that means that no one can trust anything a Republican says to anyone in the media. We have to wait for the secret 47% tapes to be released to see the real side of the Republican party.

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“We are getting what we deserve and should have never allowed these programs we can’t afford.”

Jhunt makes a good point, Republicans are getting what they deserve. FDR gave us the New Deal, Bush gave us the Whatta Deal!!

The Whatta Deal!! gave us two very expensive unfunded wars, unfunded socialist Medicare Part D, unfunded Dept of Homeland Security, earmark spending spree and topped it off with massive tax cuts. Republicans are getting what the deserve.

As usual Republicans are divorced from reality.

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Jay is right, the Repubs are two factions and there will be a third party. He is also right in saying the Democrats will probably forever continue to govern which it’ll turn to ruling.

Jay, I have to disagree w/ you about repubs refusing to change or are willing to compromise, during the negotiations to avoid the “fiscal cliff” Obama openly agreed to change how inflation increases SS payments and H. Reid said openly he was against that, many other Democrats screamed bloody murder too!

This country is in a fiscal mess and BOTH major political parties are to blame!

Going back to the Clinton tax rates will not fix the fiscal mess, cutting out all oil and gas subsidies will not help, cutting the defense budget by 90% will not help, why you ask? Democrats want to increase spending on just about everything else.

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Obama just a simple community organizer,why you repubs so afraid?

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In the short term, the Democrats will come out ahead because they can deliver a populist message more effectively; in the long run, the nation will come out ahead because this now forces the GOP to face certain facts…..

1) The GOP can’t any longer be viewed as the WOP (Whites Only Party) because of the changing demographics
2) The GOP will have to develop new sets of MEDS (MEssage Delivery Systems)….one that can make the conservative message a more attractive paradigm to listen to
3) The GOP will have to exercise the extremists from the party
4) The GOP will be forced to come into communities it has heretofore ignored and marginalized
5) The GOP will have to quit using (for lack of a better word….) lackeys to spread a message that persists in denigrating certain groups and ethnicities
6) The GOP will be forced to COMPROMISE on policy issues for the betterment of the nation

The faster this is done, the better the nation will be for it…………..

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Hate it…

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Georgia on my mind… “As long as the Democrat Party remains united and focused on the needs of the lower and middle class Americans, the country will continue to evolve and progress.”
GA, that is why we are tanking, the dem party focuses on the bottom while bring down the rest of us. Look what welfare has done, is that what you call progressing ? If you believe progress means making more people dependant on gov then we are progreeing quite well. Dems are not helping the middle, they are squeezing the middle. the middle is shrinking and the lower class is increasing and the dem party thinks that is a good thing, more people dependant on gov = more dem voters.

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Uncle Sam is deflecterbating again.

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If the Republicans would quit crossbreeding with Faux and talk radio they might not be saddled with a base of screeching nutcases. Already this morning we’ve had the “Obama only got 51%” “What war on women?” and other such meme faves.
When people’s livelihood depends on continuous anger and poo-slinging, they’ll make every show sound like it’s Lexington all over again.

And that’s how we get our con regulars here every day, absolutely positively convinced they are the reincarnation of the Founding Fathers vs. the unwashed ignorant masses who need to be lead like children by their benevolent white daddies.

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Democratic party wins; American public loses. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, good about having a dominant one party. Libs who want to see the destruction of the GOP are the same libs who received their “education” from the APS.

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Johnny Reb, The Civil War was over in 1865. The Rebs lost.

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JohnnyReb “…but it was less than 51%”

Johnny: Your Party needs to make peace with math.
Obama is the first President since Eisenhower to win two elections with over 51% of the popular vote.

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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, good about having a dominant one party.

Can it be that MiltonMan actually learned a valuable lesson from the GWB-GOP reign.

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MiltonMan
January 10th, 2013
9:04 am

It’s not the destruction of the GOP that people (even liberals) want……what we want is for the GOP to pull its collective head out and deal with reality!! I’d like for the GOP to actually campaign in the inner cities; I’d like for the GOP to develop an attractive message; I’d like for the GOP to quit using racist tactics to win elections…….

As soon as Republicans pull their heads out………………

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Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured… but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

Now add this, Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.

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Good analysis, particularly about the difficulty of transforming what’s essentially a social movement into a political party.

As far as the third party: great, hope it happens and the Tea Partiers/Holders of Truth and the One True Way split off and become whatever they want to call themselves. They’ll sputter around for a while but will not find widespread support or the money to keep themselves going. Then they’ll go the way of all third parties and their members will either go off into more splinter groups, or (and this’d be something) realize they had – no – widespread – national – appeal and they will return home, just like the prodigal sons they are.

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Fly, I can agree we need defense spending cuts, (help me out Jay, I believe it was you that said we spend close to 700 billion on defense) but we are in trouble fiscally. Jamie Dupree, one of Jay’s colleagues said a couple of things yesterday that was interesting. One, tax revenue coming in was up 10%, some from corporation tax income, some from individual tax income, he also said, based on 1st qtr estimates, the US will run a trillion dollar deficit this year, the 5th in a row! Dupree also said if you cut all discretionary spending and left just SS and Medicare, we would still run a deficit…so to have a balanced budget, or within 50 billion or so, you would have to raise 1 trillion in taxes. That’s crazy! Truthfully we need both real tax reform and real spending reform. Will we ever see that, not with this bunch of politicians or w/ a majority of Democrats either, Danny X, we already know republicans can’t either. I hated medicare part d, unfunded wars, unfunded homeland security. But I want to point out your homeboy Obama isn’t eliminated homeland security either, in fact he’s strengthened it.

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In addition, GOP leadership adopted a strategy of turning Barack Obama into the personification of all that its base feared and opposed, inspiring its followers with the belief that by defeating Obama they would “take back the country.” When it turned out that a majority of their fellow Americans did not want the country “taken back,” the revelation left many in the GOP stunned, uncertain of what to do next.

Perhaps most important, the GOP has functioned more as a fervent social crusade than as a political party. Certain of victory and fired by righteousness, important elements of the national party have shown little capacity for handling defeat. They have no ability to think in terms of minimizing loss and living to fight another day. They fail to understand that retreat need not mean surrender, and that compromise is not capitulation. And that lack of strategic vision threatens to turn retreat into a rout.

Exactly.

And their unwillingness to choose their battles reaches every sector of what they talk about. Once they have put their flag down, they never retreat and instead do pretty elaborate things to make it seem like they are winning.

See gun control, global warming, social issues, etc.

On all of these issues, evidence presented must not be responded to, and instead must be ignored in favor of pushing what they already “know,” which is that clearly your evidence is wrong because they’ve already made up their mind. Step 2 is to project their closed mindedness and other failings of logic onto the opposition.

In reality, this whole process is rooted in a deep desire to not take responsibility for ANYTHING, not even decisions. They don’t want to make decisions, because then they would be responsible for the outcome of those decisions. Instead, they just decide to fight what they don’t like without offering anything to replace it.

Truly a Party Of No.

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Fred,

Hope you feel better, because even though you’re right, your chance of talking any sense into some the the Conservatives, or even Liberals, is pretty small.

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MiltonMan — BTW, I DID get my education from APS….and my undergraduate degree from a state-school……..

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miltonman, are you one of the white liberal racists that voted for Roy in the primaries in 2010 thus blocking Thurbert Baker? or are you one of the suffering democrats that had to endure Baker being discriminated against even though his popularity in the state is HIGH?

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GT
They are playing the same cards they played in the 1860s, to the same old audience, still destroying whatever gets in their way.
………………………………………………………………………………………………
I don’t remember the 1860’s very well but I think they had a better candidate
and he won but came to a bad end.

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As big a scandal as the fact that the Republicans are(/seem to be) imploding is the fact that the Democrats seem not to be. And until the Democratic party also implodes, or splits open like a melon, we will continue to have no chance to roll back the violent rightward jerk in our politics.

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Georgia
I don’t know what I just said.
…………………………………………
join the crowd……

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Remember that in a modern political system parties tend to be reflections of the state of other parties. This is particularly true of a two-party system. So if the GOP are in shambles, then that also and simultaneously says something important about the Democrats. The task is to figure our what.

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Yea it does Danny, you keep saying Obama is a fiscally sound/responsible president. Why hasn’t he cut wasteful departments from the Federal gov’t?

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Fred – back in the times before blogs, when email was a new concept, I sent Jay an email telling him to move his desk away from Tucker. He returned a terse reply that his thoughts are his own.

I continue to call Jay out for being overly influenced by the Leftist media machine, but clearly he is a Liberal geograhically out of place. I can’t say I am not influenced by others around me, but being Conservative is natural to someone of my age, place of birth, education and family. I was Conservative long before ever hearing Rush and/or watching FOX. I don’t need others to tell me what I believe.

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Fred: I fell we NEED a strong right wing just as we need a strong left wing. We NEED the Republicans to put the brakes on some of the over zealous social programs of the left just as we need the left to drag the right kicking and screaming into this century. We need you both cowboy and right now the Right is letting down the Country with this ignorant crap they have been doing.

Thank you!!!! That needs to be posted at the top of every page on this topic.

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And for the newbies who think JohnnyReb is trying to relive the War of Northern Agression, look up Statist for a clue on why I chose the handle.

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“Yea it does Danny, you keep saying Obama is a fiscally sound/responsible president.”

hack, please show me where I have said that. I’ll be waiting.

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Aquagirl

January 10th, 2013
9:03 am

How true, especially when you’re followed immediately by an example of the poo slinging tea party crowd…

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We shall see how much the Dems stay together when they actually have to govern and come up with some actual cuts in the budget.

I don’t recall the Dems running on a platform to cut the budget. That idea has been the golden stake in the GOP’s railroad to drive Obama out of DC. It didn’t work, and the GOP still have not come up with actual cuts. Neither party is governing worth a damn, but the GOP is sucking worse. The national elections should be proof of that, but some still refuse to see facts for what they are.

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“The GOP started with the goal of destroying the President by any means possible and
end up destroying themselves.”

The GOP is destroyed here in GA??? I thought the GOP gained a US House seat here in the state. The GOP now, or soon will have, a super-majority in the state senate, the GA Democratic party was officially broke last year, the dem sheriff in Clayton County is a criminal, etc., etc. Do the dems even have a viable candidate to run vs. Deal in 14???

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U. Samantha, I would be fine with Thurbert Baker either running for Governor next time or for Saxby’s seat in the Senate. In fact, Baker’s one of the two men I would *like* to see run for that Senate seat.

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George Wallace ran for president when he was shot. It amazed me at the time how much support he got up north. The guy wasn’t going to win, though being shot guaranteed it, but he pulled states like Michigan and had to be guarded. The message of hate is a strong message when it is dress up like it is going to church or has feelings other than hate. To have a party that has one size fits all will not play well. Even old George hid his colors running in an established party’s primary, which was his only hope to be president.

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“But, everyone seemed to be forgetting somewhat recent history, that at least two Presidents have used executive orders to limit some weapons – and I’ve covered both.

The first time it happened was in 1989, after a mass school shooting Stockton, California, as President George H.W. Bush used a 1968 gun control law to limit the importation of foreign firearms – his executive order banned the shipment of certain assault weapons, unless they were used for sporting purposes.

In 1998, President Bill Clinton expanded on the Bush Administration move by banning the import of almost five dozen different assault weapons that had been modified to get through that “sporting purposes” exemption.”

http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2013/01/10/executive-orders-and-gun-controls/?cxntfid=blogs_jamie_dupree_washington_insider

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Statist = A word only Fundamentalist Libertarians think are insulting.

Socialist Society = Star Trek
Libertarian Society = Mad Max

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I can’t say I am not influenced by others around me, but being Conservative is natural to someone of my age, place of birth, education and family. I was Conservative long before ever hearing Rush and/or watching FOX. I don’t need others to tell me what I believe.

Really JohnnyReb? Maybe you need to back up and take stock of exactly what it IS you believe. I was a Republican until the blithering idiots took over, the Rush/FOXBOT types. i remember when the Republicans DID for the most part held the moral high ground and weren’t led by a 3 times divorced drug addict. I remember the Republicans BEFORE they gained the majority and turned away from their ideals and only strove to keep power.

I was a Republican when to be a Republican didn’t mean you had to be a god dammned liar like it does today. Evry Rush/FOXBOT lie you type here proves my point. Every hate filled act you commit and condone here proves my point. There was a time when Republican meant something. It meant honor and integrity. Boy howdy are those days long past. Now Republican means a big fat liar led around by the nose by a money grubbing filthy rich drug addict.

Every Rush/FOXBOT “ideal” you post takes away and credibility you ever had for having your own thoughts and ideas.

Don’t tel;l me what a Republican USED to be, because I remember quite well. What you don’t want to admit is what a Republican is NOW and how disgusting and repugnant that is.

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Biden’s an idiot, what he suggests unconstitutional, and chosing Biden for VP is indicative of just how screwedup is little Barry

Your ODS is flaring up this morning. You may want to see a doctor.

But do tell us how Executive Orders regarding aspects of “gun control” which have not been finalized are “unconstitutional” in light of Heller and other court decisions. Or you can yell “wolverine” again and continue to support NRA stupidity like threatening AZ that they cannot destroy guns bought in a gun buyback funded by private money but rather must sell them at auctions. http://www.salon.com/2013/01/09/nra_board_member_threatened_lawsuit_over_arizona_gun_buyback

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Milton

You can’t see for forest through the trees. Republicans and conservatives “jumping ship” was your slow a$$es not realizing what you had been told over Bush’s two terms.

What did it take, 6 yrs or so for you to realize Bush wasn’t that good?

You act like it was some revelation of the right. It was nothing more than catching up with everyone else

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I am not so sure about a third party not being needed, Jay. Its just that the so-called “other” wacko-party folks (green, etc.) who are fringe and not much else are not relevant (and should not be.) What about a common-sense party? Good old walkin’ around common sense? The repubs are too right, the dems are too left. That does not mean one has to be indecisive or wishy-washy. It just means that zealotry on either side needs to be tempered by common sense!
Bro……help me out here……..

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So Danny, you admit your President is a irresponsible spender. That’s my point. Every time someone mentions fiscal restraint you throw out medicare part d, unfunded wars, ect….

Keep, you are right about Congress not cooperating. We do need more of that.

I’d closed every base in Europe and reduce by 20% the man power on US bases. I’d reduce by 50%, the Federal military civilian employee, I’d go w/ a flat rate on taxes w/ the only deduction being a personal one, increases w/ no. Of dependents and annually w/ rate of inflation, causing me to reduce IRS staff by 75%, simple tax code/fewer agents needed for enforcement. Eliminate PBS funding, eliminate All energy subsidies, get rid of department of education, combine FBI and Secret Service, hopefully streamlining that agency. Stop subsidizing agriculture.

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JohnnyReb

January 10th, 2013
9:36 am

Granny, you little Statist. Don’t play dumb.
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.
.
I don’t play your games Mr. Silly Pants.

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Jay’s quote…

“In the days to come, we’ll be witness to bitter and increasingly personal battles fought out in Washington over issues that range from Hurricane Sandy relief efforts ”

rb’s reply…

Only a complete lying sack o dung would make that comment, Jay. You know darn well the issue isn’t about Sandy relief, but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill and YOU and your cohorts are just playing silly political games with it to the delight of your low information voter friends who are too damn stupid to learn the truth about what’s behind the story.

Stop calling yourself a journalist if you can’t do any better than that.”
____________

You really have outdone yourself this time rb! Classic.

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You know darn well the issue isn’t about Sandy relief, but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill and YOU and your cohorts are just playing silly political games with it to the delight of your low information voter friends who are too damn stupid to learn the truth about what’s behind the story.

In other words, THIS is what Rush says about it………

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Here’s the pork in the Sandy relief bill, from that bastion of liberalism, FORBES:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/01/03/pork-holding-up-senate-sandy-relief-bill-funneled-into-the-troughs-of-gop-deficit-hawks-you-betcha/

Why, you might ask, would the Senate be packing billions of taxpayer dollars for these areas of the country that are nowhere near the devastation brought about by superstorm Sandy into a bill designed to bring relief to those suffering from the storm that ripped the northeastern part of the nation?

Coincidence? Not at all. We know this because Harry Reid told us so in press conference held on December 20, a time when everyone’s attention was so glued to the fiscal cliff drama that any talk of any other bills was completely lost in the wind.

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Should this link be forwarded to Gov. Christie ?
http://www.fema.gov/disaster-process-disaster-aid-programs

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Look no futher than Biden’s comment on Obama using an Executive Order on gun control to see why the Right is so angry at the administration.

Yes, I remember how strongly you were against these when Republican Presidents were in office and did the EXACT. SAME. THING.

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JHM: Speaking of tossed out Republican RINO’s ……….

Has Butch been around lately? I don’t recall seeing him for a while. Or Gmare either, although Gmare hated me lol.

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Erskine Bowles said this morning that we spend 100% of the money coming into the Federal government each year on interest payments and entitlement programs. Every penny we spend on defense, education, food safety ect is borrowed from China.

Sure we do not have a spending problem.

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M.Man — “Baker could not even beat the re-tread Barnes in the democrat primary. What makes you think he can win a general election???”

First, I didn’t say that he *could.* I simply said that I’d like to see him run for it. Pay closer attention.

Second, if you voted for Mitt Romney last November — the guy who came in second in the GOP Presidential primary in 2008, then STFU.

“Baker would be easily defeated – heck bring back Bob Barr as a dem. He would have a better chance than Baker to win.”

Barr’s an overflowing douchebag. I can’t see myself voting for him under any circumstances.

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Bro

Wonder if anyone who has been feigning outrage over any potential Obama EO’s regarding firearms will comment?

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I realize you and other left wing loons in the media want a shattered GOP but it ain’t happening Jay. They will come together on the debt ceiling and hopefully shut down this monstrosity we call a gubmint. What you fail to realize or maybe just don’t want to mention is that the dem party is so far left out of the mainstream now. Why don’t you want to talk about that? Unfettered abortion, homosexual marriage, take guns away, higher taxes, cutting of the military to make us weaker, executive orders, taking GOD out of the public eye… I could go on and on with things the American people if informed will surly not stand for….

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How am I making things up? I don’t see the President as being fiscally responsible. You tell me where I’m wrong, Danny. My point is every time someone brings up the subject of fiscal responsibility, you blame the repubs, show me where democrats are responsible!

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The answer can be found in a quick review of the states that are set to benefit from the Senate’s extra-special benevolence—states including Alabama, Mississippi, Texas and Louisiana.

It’s still Obama’s fault. Or something.

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It is so outrageous that Obama is overstepping his authority with executive overreach! My God, it’s SO outrageous that the man who helped Cheney and Bush do EXACTLY THE SAME THING is now investigating them for it!

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“Unfettered abortion, homosexual marriage, take guns away, higher taxes, cutting of the military to make us weaker, executive orders, taking GOD out of the public eye…”

talk radio, breitbart and theblaze much?

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Adam & Fred

I have seen Butch on a few times, but not Gmare.

TBG was asking about her a few weeks ago. Been awhile since I have seen her post anything.

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TBS

January 10th, 2013
9:52 am

Bro

Wonder if anyone who has been feigning outrage over any potential Obama EO’s regarding firearms will comment?

” What we need to do is take all the high capacity weapons and send them to Mexico, Oh wait… we did that.

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JHM

You are correct. It was Gmare. She posted a few times after her surgery, but that was a few months back.

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President Obama wants to tie spending cuts to tax revenue hikes in the debt ceiling talks, but that could mean trouble for the middle class taxpayers he has pledged to protect.
They’ll have to go down to where the real money is, which is the middle class,” said Brian Gardner, Washington policy analyst with Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, an investment bank. “Politically, that would be very tough.”
The White House and Congress just finished a bruising fiscal cliff battle that raises taxes on the rich by $618 billion over a decade. Next up is the debt ceiling debate and dealing with the sequester — automatic spending cuts set to kick in by early March.
Republicans want any debt limit increases to be coupled with spending cuts. In return, Democrats are demanding more revenue, mentioning closing loopholes and corporate subsidies like the $38 billion given to the oil industry over 10 years.
But to bring in significant tax revenues, lawmakers would have to tap into some politically sensitive tax deductions, said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition.
“The problem with exempting the middle class from any pain is that it’s hard to make the numbers work,” Bixby said. “Corporate tax loopholes are not as large as the ones for individuals.”
How to raise a trillion dollars
Tax exclusions and deductions total roughly $1.1 trillion a year, but less than 10% benefit corporations, according to the Tax Policy Center. That means most cuts to those benefits would hit individuals.
So who would pay? Further restricting itemized deductions and exclusions for the rich could be one way to bring in several hundred billion dollars over a decade, but there may not be enough there to raise enough revenue to balance out the spending cuts.
Eliminating several other major tax breaks could also bring in billions a year in savings for the government, but would amount to tax increases on the middle class people that benefit from them.
For example, the largest exclusion is the one for employer health insurance, which totals $164 billion for fiscal 2014, according to the Congressional Research Service. This one spares the 60% of Americans who have employer-sponsored coverage from paying taxes on the share of health insurance premiums paid for by their companies. Without the tax break, companies might offer less generous plans.
Related: Your taxes under the fiscal cliff deal
Another tax break that helps the middle class save for retirement is the one for employer-provided pensions, which allow companies to offer tax-deferred pensions and 401(k)s. But at a cost of nearly $163 billion in revenue, this one could also be a major target for savings.
And one of the most cherished middle-class tax breaks — the mortgage interest deduction — costs nearly $100 billion a year. Nearly 40% of filers claiming this deduction make between $50,000 and $100,000 a year.
But major reform of any kind still faces many obstacles. The Democrats won’t have a lot of leverage to negotiate any tax increases going forward, experts said. The Republicans were more willing to bend during the fiscal cliff negotiations because they were facing a massive tax hike on everyone had the Bush tax cuts expired. Now, there’s no such threat.
“The incentive to support major tax reform is gone,” said George Yin, a law professor at the University of Virginia and former chief of staff at Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/10/news/economy/middle-class-tax/

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Christian Conservative
I could go on and on with things the American people if informed will surly not stand for….
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surly is an apropos typo…

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There are many ways to say this, but I’ll try to keep it simple. The USA is composed of every demographic. Male/female, rich/poor, straight/gay, religious/non-religious, educated/uneducated, white/black/latino/asian. The Democrats have accepted people with a diversity of beliefs and behaviors. There is room for all. The Republicans have gone out of their way to exclude certain people. The Democrats are united in their disparity. The Republicans are divided from everyone not like them.

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td — “Go watch today’s Morning Joe on MSNBC.”

Also known as the “Guess How Many Vodka & Tonics Mika Had Before Airtime” show.

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You conservatives kill me. You act as if Democrats are the reason we have a lot of debt, but historically, Republicans spend as much if not more, via starving government, trillion dollar wars and other nonsense. You’re a bunch of whiney babies.

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Fred @ 9:08: Yes. Exactly.

Republicans who make undermining and defeating the duly-elected President their number one priority are neither listening to the people nor putting the country first. Republicans who push through a law mandating a procedure – those despicable vaginal probes – that qualifies under international law as rape and who support a fatuous, drug-addled gasbag as he screams “slut!” at women who use birth control must look at those positions and accept that the moderate middle of America (and more importantly, the young voters) are going to see that as a “war on women”. Republicans who try last-minute legal skirmishes to disenfranchise targeted voter groups are going to call down accusations of racism on their party.

These efforts to force, push, insist, mandate, criminalize and bludgeon through policies only prove that they are so despised that they cannot survive public voting. The more the Republicans demand that Americans submit to their vision of reality, the more Americans they will drive off. And everyone loses.

Fred, you’re right. We need two parties. We need checks and balances. It is not a good idea to endlessly fund today’s social services with tomorrow’s money, and the Democrats are far too willing to do that. But the Republicans must step away from the absolutism of screeching idiots who make money by making them mad and afraid, and engage with the rest of the country.

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Steve:

Wow maybe you should Google the enormous debt racked just during Oblama’s first term. He almost doubled it in 4 years….

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TBS

See 9:57..

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They want complete control over every single aspect of our lives….

Followed, of course, by a tattoo on your head or right hand.

Better reinforce the door on your Left-Behind bunker while you still can.

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JReb: both of those executive orders address imports. If Barry does that and only that, it will probably pass muster.

The pessimist in me says that anything Obama does will bring forth the mouth foaming from the far Right. Hell, he didn’t do a single thing in regards to guns in his first term, and there was the “gonna take our gunz!!” paranoia then. Forgive me as I say that I don’t buy that line there. None of you righties would approve of anything Obama does other than him resigning.

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Shar

January 10th, 2013
10:05 am

Seems to me the only difference between the GOP’s stated objective to get rid of a sitting DEM president from prior DEM agenda’s, is that the GOP went public as opposed to prior behind the scenes understanding about policitcal control…they both do it…isn’t that what its all about?

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Adam:

File under “Things you have to say to get into the mental health problem database”
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That may just replace

Not intended to be a factual statement, There’s your sign and Piffle as my favorite snappy retort.

May I use it?

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It is what it is. This is part of the process when a party “wanders in the desert” after a defeat.

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barking frog:

I didn’t realize I was being graded here…..

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Bro @ 10:08

I just let that stupidity ride……… this time.

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“MiltonMan – so how’s it really like up there in the land of heavy traffic, stepfordwives, cookie cutter strip malls, chain restaurants and insanely painful commutes into town, and high property taxes? I’ll take my intown living ANY DAY”

Let’s see all clueles one: (1) heavy trafiic – don’t know & don’t care – it is called telecommuting. If I do have to go in, I am on 400 by 0500 – no traffic to been seen other than the occasional Cash for Clunker car with an Obama sticker driving the wrong way; (2) stepfordwives – yes a few of those and they beat the crack-heads on intown anyday; (3) cookie cutter strip mall? Thanks again for exposing your ignorance. Don’t you recall all your dem friends bashing Milton because of the 80% property tax formula???; (4) High property taxes to support you free loafers living intown.

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I could see the emergence of a viable third party that would take 15-20% of Republican voters and 15-20% of Democratic voters in a national election – with the right person leading the ticket.

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The democrats have found away to gain power by promising people more stuff for free.

Not to belabor the point, but here is exhibit one in the dumbing down of the average Republican. Reduced to Fox News soundbites and childish slogans. To wit, Wilbur has gotten such a staggering amount of stuff for “free”, and for his entire life, it is laughable that he even writes such claptrap.

Who do you believe was a good conservative?

Drop the word conservative and you have a point.

Again, and for the umpteenth time, these Republicans are NOT conservatives. They are almost to a man, pro-(botched)invasion and occupation/regime change/permanent war, pro-class warfare, anti-environmental frauds.

Ban labor unions. Ban abortions. Ban homosexuals. Drown Uncle Sam in a bathtub.

Hell, it so pathetic that they are actually HAPPY with the sell off of OUR sovereignty (look up the definition) to the banksters and corporations. Who are people, my friend. Puke.

THIS IS NOT CONSERVATISM.

NONE of those things are even remotely connected with traditional American conservatism.

The list of things that genuine conservatives would never tolerate, but are SOP in this modern, fascist leaning GOP could fill an entire page. Or five…

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So I’ve been told by more than a few Dems that they don’t want our guns. And I’ve talked to several Dems who are gun owners and say there is no way the government will take them. HHMMMMM. So answer me something. Is it or is it not the Democratic party that wants our guns?

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Culture change is entirely possible. When I was a teenager, there was no such thing as a designated driver. Now it’s a part of the culture. Parents have to keep the gratuitous violence that passes as entertainment out of the home. We need to give parents of mentally and emotionally ill children an option other than the court system, and we need to ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines. We can do this.

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“don’t know & don’t care”

This could be their new slogan for 2016!

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Christian Conservative
barking frog:

I didn’t realize I was being graded here…..
……………………………………………………….
only if you make a mistake or are incommunicative…

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East Lake Ira:

Oh yeah. Well I judge the dem party and see them as being anti-Christian, anti-family, and pro-death….

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Asked early on….toss them a life preserver or an anvil?

I say life preserver.

I agree it’s a shame that the GOP is stumbling onto it’s own sword, and would like to see them take action to distantce themselves from their more radical fringe.

How do we help the GOP find it’s footing?

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The last time Dems messed with peoples gun rights in this country (1993) they lost 54 seats in the HOR’s the next election cycle.

File under “Yet Another Thing Conservatives Claim is THE ONE THING that explains why The House Went GOP in 1994″

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One thing is clear, the lower economic class of America is multiplying and Democrats are very happy about that. Statistics are showing the lower class of America are having children at a dramatically higher rate than upper class America. This bodes well for Democrats as they want more and more people completely dependant on the govt. Doesn’t bode well for the future of America.

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Stevie Ray: Seems to me the practicality of taking peoples guns away or otherwise keeping what’s out there now from being available in the future if a non-started.

Duh!!! If I heard correctly, Biden said the EO’s would go towards enforcing laws already on the books as part of that plan. Nobody’s suggesting that we take guns away from anybody. What’s being suggested is making it harder for those, who don’t need a gun in their possesion, to get their hands on one.

For example, lost in the hubbub of the Fast and Furious Grand Mal sessions is the fact that Arizona law makes it easy as hell for someone to purchase multiple semi-auto rifles with little to no background checking. So, right now, it’s perfectly legal for some nutcase to go to Arizona, plop down $20,000 cash, and ride off with an arsenal that belongs in the movies if they go to the right person.

I can tell you that we have a problem with guns in this country when the criminals easily outgun law enforcement.

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Christian Conservative

January 10th, 2013
10:28 am

So I’ve been told by more than a few Dems that they don’t want our guns. And I’ve talked to several Dems who are gun owners and say there is no way the government will take them. HHMMMMM. So answer me something. Is it or is it not the Democratic party that wants our guns?
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CC

ARe you under mental health care? Have you been arrested? Do you practice spousal abuse?
Probelms with drugs, alcohol, PTSD? Purchased firearms illegally? All your firearms properly registered? History of violent outbursts?

Depending on how you answer those questions, most Americans, most NRA members might want to take your guns.

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@ Stevie Ray: Mitch McConnell, head of the Republicans in the Senate, said “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

While every party out of the Executive Office wants back in, the number one goal has always been the good of the country. When that is supplanted by a narrow focus on extinguishing the President’s ability to govern and obstructing every effort he (or she) makes regardless of the consequences to the nation, the party committing itself to that has lost legitimacy as a political entity. McConnell’s statement reflected the inflexible, fearmongering our-way-of-the-highway vitriol being spewed out by entertainers who make the very big bucks by ginning up anger and fear and by politicians from districts created to carve out those with different views, and it represented a rejection of the role of “loyal opposition” to “heedless destruction”.

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td, you didn’t think willard would get his ass handed to him by the “47%” either, so what you think now is somewhat irrelevant to educated citizens

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Granny Godzilla
How do we help the GOP find it’s footing?
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Replace the obstructionists with Democrats.

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How do we help the GOP find it’s footing?

You and I are doing our part GG: marginalizing some of the right-wing extremists here who are hijacking the GOP.

It’s the least we can do for our country.

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Paul

January 10th, 2013
10:28 am

td

You watch Morning Joe? Good for you! I like the range of guests and topics. Also the way they let each other have their say.

Morning Joe, Chris Matthews, Rachel Meddows and others. I also read articles in the WaPost, Huff post, daily beast, mother jones and the NY times. While at the same time watch Bill, Sean, Greda (sp) and listen to Rush when I am on the road.

I think it is good to listen to both sides of the argument,

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I love Democrats being so happy about a terrible employment rate and weak economy…

It’s amazing how happy they are about that, talk about being brainwashed…

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godless, I know what a true non profit it, thanks. Just surprised the NRA is classified as one.

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cat – because the qualify as non-profit

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JHM

“There are *going* to be some sorts of additional constraints and restrictions coming, and the NRA has an opportunity to join in that discussion in good faith. However, the NRA is not going to be able to *dictate terms* as it has in the past. If the NRA tries that, then I think it will find itself disinvited from the discussion and pushed aside so that *others* can work out a solution.”
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Bravo!

Well Said.

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I think it is good to listen to both sides of the argument

good to listen. Better to try to comprehend and think about the arguments, reality and policy.

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Steve:

I realize sometimes facts get in the way from reality for you libs but the link you produced is laughable and almost a year old…. Obama’s debt in four years almost doubled Bush in eight..

http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/US-Debt-by-President.htm

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Adam
I read Daily Caller and Fox News and Reason.com and I am registered as a Republican on my voter registration.
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I would classify you as a liberal Republican who likes Obama much like
our host.

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BRO

I think you will find that many on the far left (Gov Cuomo said all but as I understood him yesterday) love to discuss taking the assault type guns out of owners hands. Even future efforts to ban any of same will not eliminate the exposure of violence on kids and other defenseless folks..It just political hubris..

Shar,

I can’t disagree with the means of the lunatics on the right, including public statements, but both parties want power…anyway they can get it…lies, promises never kept, personal attacks, whipping up scaretactics to further agenda or impede the others…its a joke really…they don’t care about us…they are failing us as only tactic is reactionary….

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Adam – You don’t come across but you did lose your temper the other night and coe accross as someone with a lack of patience for people who don’t agree with you.

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Brosephus™

January 10th, 2013
10:35 am

BTW, how exactly do you identify one who shouldn’t have a gun in their possession? If I recall, the guns in latest incident were registered to mom. Should a parent of a now targeted kid with emotional disabilities be prevented from gun ownership? How do we define and legally prevent “those who shouldn’t own a gun”?

Help me understand that….

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More stuff for free.

Seems to me that is another definition of freedom. Giving people an equal shot at life is giving them something if you are not a believer in democracy, you can sell that to ignorant people, been sold all over the world, all through history. The sad thing is some people in this state and nation sell it and truly believe it, they allow themselves to be used for immorality yet can’t wait for the second coming thinking they have ground to stand on. Loopholing you Bible ain’t going to work when you are arguing with the guy who wrote it and made you. He gave us the rights not you, not even this country, or our forefathers, who had the intelligence to recognize it.

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Welcome to the Occupation

January 10th, 2013
10:47 am

Agreed. I don’t have party affiliation either and the BO supporters love to pop off about improving economy that has nothing to do with his efforts and for the most part, is defined by measures that those who blindly support him devour…Nothing of meaning has happened under his watch despite his complete pre-occupation with selling himself.

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“BTW, how exactly do you identify one who shouldn’t have a gun in their possession? If I recall, the guns in latest incident were registered to mom. Should a parent of a now targeted kid with emotional disabilities be prevented from gun ownership? How do we define and legally prevent “those who shouldn’t own a gun”?

Help me understand that….”

Stevie Ray – I agree. It’s hard to think of a scenario that would prevent every act of criminal gun violence.

I do, however have a concern (i don’t think this applies to you, though) about folks bringing up one exception to a proposed solution, and using that as an argument against doing anything. “The perfect being the enemy of the good,” so to speak.

Sadly, in the cicumstance to which you refer, I doubt even “gun lock” rules would have had any effect.

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What is usually ignored when the 2nd amendment is referenced is the part about a well ordered militia. This does not translate to ‘anyone who wants to own an assault and an RPG should be allowed to do so. What we lack is organization. The only organizations I am aware of are state National Guard and private militias that seem to group up on survivalist conspiracies, like preparing for zombies or overthrowing the government, which oddly enough,seems right in line with the original meaning. Maybe we should allow people to own these disputed weapons IF they are members of something like the National Guard which is a ‘well organized militia.” You stop attending training, your fellow militia members come and confiscate your weapons. None of this includes those weapons strictly for hunting or target sports.

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On the gun issue, a refresher on the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The gun control folks want to concentrate on the first two phrases, the NRA wants to pretend that they don’t exist. That is where the fight will be.

Thus far, the NRA has been very successful in pretending that the Amendment is only the last two phrases without the moderating first two. Any recognition that the Constitutional language provides for moderation of gun ownership or a regulating environment has been instantly attacked, and the NRA’s response to Newton still reflects that position.

It is interesting to me, however, that the Framers, despite living in a subsistence economy without much personal protection from the law, did not justify ownership of arms for either hunting or self defense. They protected it in the interests of “the security of a free State”, and they placed keeping and bearing arms within the context of a “well regulated Militia.”

It’s past time that we debated what this really means.

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I wouldn’t celebrate just yet…this in fighting could eventually lead to better defined and united party. You dems went thru this to some degree after W won his first term and came back pretty strong

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Td we have loss a lot of blood since 1993. You sound like you are defending the devil himself when you defend assault guns, get a hold of yourself. Surely the sacrifice of your small pleasures for the safety of small school children is not beyond your selfish imagination. No one is taking your toys away or you cowboy outfit; we just tire of being so stupid for your satisfaction.

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Christian Conservative

January 10th, 2013
10:53 am

Adam:

I have yet to hear a Republican say they want our guns… Its full bore lib dems….

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Didn’t you hear Mr Republican himself on gun control?

http://reasoningpolitics.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/ronald-reagan-supported-gun-control/

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Stevie Ray: I think you will find that many on the far left (Gov Cuomo said all but as I understood him yesterday) love to discuss taking the assault type guns out of owners hands

They can talk about getting screwed by aliens in Area 51 too. Does that mean it really happened or can happen?

BTW, how exactly do you identify one who shouldn’t have a gun in their possession?

Background checks, and not the current fluff that’s called such. In the Newtown case, that likely would not have stopped that incident. Had the mom kept her guns locked to where only she could get access to them, then we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation now. You do realize they make gun safes with biometric locks right?

Other incidents, such as Aurora and Columbine, were accomplished by the person buying the guns themselves. Maybe a decent background check would have stopped them, maybe not. When we don’t try, we’ll never know.

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The pro-gun folks are deteriorating to ’sedition’ to defend the 2nd
amendment which is absurd. The Founding Fathers with a new
Constitution in hand providing for protecting rebels is ludicrous.
The Militia was for protection from invasion from bordering foreign
governments such as the British in Canada.

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Cling to your guns and religion with all your might.

you’ll likely need both to get mine

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The Framers were too cowardly …

BLASPHEMY!! The Framers were the smartest men on the planet and were driven by a need to establish a heaven on this earth by divine oogitty boogity power rays from GOD!

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Stevie – I don’t see anything on the table now excepting enforcing existing laws, that will prevent more random shootings..

makes ya wonder what the real goal is doesn’t it?

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Oscar

January 10th, 2013
10:40 am

The south and west want a different type of government then the rest of the country want. That’s the divide. And the GOP went for the votes in those states. Those states do not have a majority of E college votes. Now where does the GOP go from here.

The GOP does what the Dems did from 1948 to 1992. They control the HOR’s and the majority of the states and implement their policies from there and the Dems control the white house for 8 out of every 12 years.

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What are some common-sense constraints or regulations that could be put in place in the near future, particularly those with an eye toward reducing public firearm violence?

I’ll start with a simple one–

Get everyone to agree that we need national standards; that any rules and regs in one city or one state are useless against laxer standards elsewhere. Let’s at least take the stupid “Big City X Bans Gunz and lookie all their CRIME!” arguments off the table.

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Well, now Jay may or may not know a little history, but it seems to me that if the repubs could recover from that disaster Woodrow and Taft and My Bull Moose party, they can recover from this little spat. As for gun control. I like my hunting..RUN Jay, RUN…..

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“Lining Up Early for the Innauguration”

Actually you can get some great deals if you want to go to the inauguration. Seems thousands of Republicans made airline and hotel reservations they won’t be needing. Go to UnskewedDeals.com, tell them td sent you and get an even bigger discount.

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Poor paranoid cc…

And cat, I’ve got bad news, all of us libs, moderates, centrists, greens and progressives are coming over to your place to pry them form you cold dead hands!

Is it any wonder that there are so many murderous, government hating, heavily armed nutjobs in this country?

The right wing fascists won’t say boo to them…

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JoeHusseinMama
Executive Order to put anti-theft fingerprint locks on all guns
manufactured and permanent disablement of all guns not equipped.
Factory Reps required to change fingerprints and must keep record.

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What do you think those folks think now?

don’t know…do you?
The best reason for getting an assault rifle now is because so many others in the community already have them.

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td – Or, the dems could swing too far to the left,like they did in the seventies, and the GOP woulf carry the swing states and control the white house again.

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Canada has an interesting approach. Anyone trying to buy a gun has to have two people to attest to his/her character and who are willing to take financial responsibility if the gun being bought is used criminally.

I like the automobile model for gun ownership. Issuing licenses for particular types of guns, just as we do cars, with some minimum level of competency and knowledge would be a step in the right direction. So would regular reviews of safe functionality. Finally, the need to insure each gun, just like a car, would protect innocent bystanders from uncompensated harm and would place the insurance companies in the position of overseeing a gun owner’s record of safety.

I would also like to see some limits on the acquisition of ammunition, treating it less like jelly beans and more like OxyContin.

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Stevie Ray: I don’t agree a bit about locks on guns being an answer.

Why not? Locks can reduce accidental shootings within the household, specifically the kind where little 4 year old Timmy goes into the closet and gets mommy’s/daddy’s gun and blows his head off accidentally. Have you ever seen someone demonstrate how a child has to hold the gun in order to pull the trigger? Gun locks can also address guns that are stolen and end up in the hands of criminals that way. Do I think locks are the ultimate answer? Hell no, but a multi-layered, multi-tiered approach is the only way we’ll get anything done.

How exactly do you measure the efficacy of that?

Measure the drops in stolen guns, accidental shootings by kids/others, and drops in suicides for starters.

So you are also suggesting that in those prior events, these kids wouldn’t have found a means to secure the guns nonetheless?

When somebody’s dead set on getting something in a society as free and open as ours, it’s not a matter of IF they can get what they want, it’s a matter of WHEN they get it. There are people in this country that will sell their mother or their first born child if the price is right.

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While Obama and the donkey party gloat, paychecks for the same amount of work as last year are smaller this year. Social Security up 2% and the 10% bracket has disappeared. Those complaining about smaller paychecks probably voted for Obama.

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GT @ 9:17am….that was great, thanks for the smile.

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jack

Social security just reverted back to its original rate; try blaming congress if thats your focus…

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Why not? Locks can reduce accidental shootings within the household,

I thought we were trying to eliminate the mass shootings like Aurora and Sandy Hook how would a lock stop this?

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td I think long and hard about getting into a car after one drink more less drunk ,now days, not the case in the 70s and before. Wonder why that is? We are not talking about taking the gun away we are talking very similarly to the DUI laws enforcing something on guns instead of sitting here with our thumbs up our noses. What I have a very hard time understanding is the lack of remorse from these gun lobbies that are like tobacco companies in the last century refusing to admit the truth. It insults the entire country’s intelligence to be having this idiotic discussion.

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And locks defeat the whole purpose of having a gun in the first place for self defense. What would have happened to that poor woman and children in Walton county last week if she had a lock on her gun and forgot to get the key when she was hurrying her kids to the closet to hide?

Oh ye of little knowledge, educate yourself…

http://www.amazon.com/Sequiam-BioBox-Biometric-Fingerprint-Safe/dp/B0016N1EJQ

If she had forgotten her FINGER, then I don’t think she would need to own or even handle a gun. Had you bothered to read what I posted, I suggested biometric locks long before. That lock box does nothing to hamper, hinder, or otherwise stop someone from having a gun available for home protection. It does, however, keep anybody outside the people with authorized access from getting their hands on the gun.

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Americans are pretty good about deciding which party and candidate are nearest to the center and leading in the direction they want to go. And they don’t mind going back and forth between parties as the parties change. I think that will ontinuue tobe the case.

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I thought we were trying to eliminate the mass shootings like Aurora and Sandy Hook how would a lock stop this?

As far as Sandy Hook, mom could have bought one of these for under $300. I’m sure she paid more for her rifles than that. A gun safe would not have addressed Aurora, which is why I said it would take a multi-layered, multi-tier approach. That doesn’t mean taking guns from anybody who doesn’t lawfully qualify to own them either.

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Deaths from drunk driving have decreased, for several reasons.

Deaths from guns can decrease also if we make sensible changes as well.

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Fred

Cool. I’m thinking about buying a .45 in the near future, and I need to test out a few.

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Even Scout and Del support reasonable gun safety laws and they are two of the more vocal and usually uncompromising conservatives on here. What does THAT say about what could be done?

Speaking of which, I haven’t seen either on in the last couple of days. Did something happen while I was gone?

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Are there really fewer drinkers on the road? I know several people who have several DUI’s

Well, there are fewer fatalities. There’s still a bunch though.

http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-statistics

And maybe it’s time for some new friends, lol.

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barking frog

January 10th, 2013
11:35 am

Did Americans have the right to own automatic weapons before
manufacturers created them? Can americans demand that
manufacturers create safer guns to protect their rights?

American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.

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Td:

What’s the matter, no response to my challenge to you for being in the tank with right wing Democrats like Erskine Bowles?

Don’t care to defend him, then, is that correct?

I can understand kind’a. After all. That might be very awkward for you if it became revealed that you are right in line with large segments of the supposedly “left” Democratic party. Then it would become apparent that the Democratic party really isn’t so “left” after all. And we mustn’t have that confusion floating around.

Ain’t that right, td?

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American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.

Sure they do.

All it takes is the proper license.

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Thanks Oscar. LOL Head to the bar at the mellow mushroom by our houses and I’ll buy you lunch (at noon).

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cat, you know me, all hot air I’m a lover, not a fighter. And at my age, both are not getting more any easier!

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Fred

Sorry about the phone. Type B Flu is running through the household, so I’ve been taking care of the lil one and trying to keep mama from getting sick.

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American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.

Wrong. If you had to take a ownership test, I seriously doubt you’d be able to keep your guns.

SMDH…

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And I really hate to hear people use the name of my savior to hide hatred, intolerance, bigotry, and paranoia. Jesus teaches us to be liberal: liberal in our love of others, in our caring for others, and in our actions. We have been told to leave judging up to God and to leave government stuff to the government and matters of faith to God. There is no room for assault weapons in “Turn the other cheek.”… Jesus repaired the ear of the soldier who captured Him. Too many “Christians” want to cloak themselves in His name while having no intention of walking in His footsteps.

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Jay’
The new Walmart popup blocks out your picture, nice improvement.

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Driving while plastered is no longer cool. If we treated the gun-slobbering and gun worship the same way we could reduce gun deaths.

This really can’t be emphasized enough. Part of the solution is, in fact, changing the public’s attitudes about gun-nuttery. If the solid majority of Americans who already do not believe that you need a Bushmaster to have a “man card,” felt like a similar majority of representatives had their backs, they’d be a bit less reticent to proclaim this publicly.

Until then, though, I think you’ll have a truly “silent majority” who keep their feelings about gun worship to themselves.

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gee Philosopher, so that was a s’ghetti noodle Jesus cleared the temple with? I never read about him healing ANY of the money lenders he horse whipped out of there……..

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Loved Trap. Skeet, not so much. I used to shoot skeet with a guy that was blind in one eye and could not see well with the other. He was a class B shooter. The targets fly the same every time, other conditions being equal. The only fun is a windy day.

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Oscar

January 10th, 2013
11:32 am

Deaths from drunk driving have decreased, for several reasons.

Deaths from guns can decrease also if we make sensible changes as well.

The changes being proposed to ban semi automatic rifles will do very little to curtail the deaths by guns each year since most deaths by guns are a result of hand guns.

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td

January 10th, 2013
11:37 am

barking frog

January 10th, 2013
11:35 am

American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.

Wrong. Citizens can own automatic weapons, but, you have to have a federal license to do so.

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Do I remember correctly back when Bush was elected and the majority in the Senate and congress was Repubs. everybody in the media asking “whats wrong wuth the Democratic party”? What do they need to do to get their power back? Is the Democratic party finished? Obama was elected because he’s BLACK! Period. No mater his policies. Anyway all the problems we have today are BUSH’S fault. Just ask Mr. PEANUT, Jimmy Carter. Go back before O’bama was elected. When he was campaigning, every thing he said needed to be done to get this country back on track he’s done the opposite. He’s a typical politician. Say what they want to hear and then SCREW EM!

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Brosephus™

January 10th, 2013
12:07 pm

Do I come on these blogs and personally attack you (before you start your personal attacks)?

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Do I come on these blogs and personally attack you (before you start your personal attacks)?

Did I accuse you of such? I didn’t attack you. I merely pointed out that, had you bothered to even read what I linked, you would have known what I was talking about as opposed to ASSUMING. That’s your problem, dude. You KNOW that you know everything and assume crap instead of actually responding to what people are talking about.

I don’t have a problem with you at all, regardless to what you think. I think you would be much better off using active listening skills as opposed to assuming things about people though. Take that advice for whatever you see it for.

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Georgia on my mind…

January 10th, 2013
8:02 am

As long as the Democrat Party remains united and focused on a short term, narrowly focused approach to the needs of the lower and middle class Americans, an approach that depends mainly on more and more government, and the Republicans fail to mount an effective opposition, the country will continue to appear to evolve and progress, but will actually be moving closer and closer to the brink. If it takes long enough to reach the brink, there’s still a chance to save the country and the world, but the Republican party will have to drastically change if it is to be part of such saving.

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Fred ™:

I really resent it when some ass uses MY religion as a name to spit out lies.

What lie?

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Christian Conservative

January 10th, 2013
1:15 pm

Fred ™:

I really resent it when some ass uses MY religion as a name to spit out lies.

What lie?
+++++++++++++++

You doubling the debt lie. You know what lie you hoser.

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[...] Who wins a GOP civil war? The Democrats do | Jay Bookman. Short URL: [...]

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Interesting how when Obama romps all over them the Pubbies dismiss the Electoral College as irrelevant. However When Bush “wins” by a handful of votes in the Electoral College and loses the popular vote the Electoral College is “Da Bomb”!

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