Who wins a GOP civil war? The Democrats do
In the days to come, we’ll be witness to bitter and increasingly personal battles fought out in Washington over issues that range from Hurricane Sandy relief efforts to immigration reform and the debt ceiling.
And of course, that’s just among the Republicans. Deep divides are already apparent within the party on how to approach those and other issues, and it’s hard to envision how those differences will be resolved any time soon. To the contrary, in the frustration of defeat, many in the party have begun to turn on each other, raising the very real specter of a GOP civil war.
In the words of Josh Kraushaar, executive editor of National Journal, “I’ve long been skeptical about the feasibility of a third party, but I’m beginning to entertain the possibility that the GOP could become split apart as these policy debates come to the fore…. Is it that much of a stretch to believe that by 2016, the grassroots base will have taken control of the Republican Party, and the establishment will be looking to bolt?”
I know what he means, because I’ve been having similar thoughts myself. Talk of third parties has always been silly in my experience, largely because we operate in a political environment in which two parties are the stable status quo. That said, I also can’t recall seeing a party so at odds with itself as the modern GOP.
Senate Republicans are sniping at their counterparts in the House, who in turn dismiss GOP senators as enemy collaborators. Northeast Republicans publicly accuse the party of caring only about the South, and half the party lives in fear of being labeled RINO by the other half. The party’s professionals blame its predicament on a lack of realism within the GOP media, while the conservative entertainment industry attacks party professionals as profiteers who lack a true commitment to the cause.
Part of the internal rancor can be explained by the nature of the GOP in recent years. When you turn inflexibility into a core party value, you make it all but impossible to make adjustments when the wind changes.
In addition, GOP leadership adopted a strategy of turning Barack Obama into the personification of all that its base feared and opposed, inspiring its followers with the belief that by defeating Obama they would “take back the country.” When it turned out that a majority of their fellow Americans did not want the country “taken back,” the revelation left many in the GOP stunned, uncertain of what to do next.
Perhaps most important, the GOP has functioned more as a fervent social crusade than as a political party. Certain of victory and fired by righteousness, important elements of the national party have shown little capacity for handling defeat. They have no ability to think in terms of minimizing loss and living to fight another day. They fail to understand that retreat need not mean surrender, and that compromise is not capitulation. And that lack of strategic vision threatens to turn retreat into a rout.
The wiser among them understand that, yet they also seem helpless to prevent it. In an op-ed back in December in the Wall Street Journal, Karl Rove in effect begged Barack Obama to save the GOP from a civil war with itself, warning the president that Republican infighting could cause “significant collateral damage” to his second term.
More recently, columnist Charles Krauthammer took a similar tack, accusing Obama of a plot “to fracture and basically shatter the Republican opposition … His objective from the very beginning was to break the will of the Republicans in the House, and to create an internal civil war. And he’s done that.”
I suspect it’s true that Obama is less than heart-broken to see his opponents in such disarray. It’s also true that he seems intent on making the most of the opportunity, forcing the Republicans to make a series of difficult, divisive policy and strategic decisions at a time when they are ill-prepared to do so.
But I have to say, it’s darkly humorous to see a take-no-prisoner political warrior such as Rove try to make the case for mercy. That is perhaps the most telling measure of the GOP’s predicament.
– Jay Bookman
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371 comments Add your comment
Shar
January 10th, 2013
11:17 am
Canada has an interesting approach. Anyone trying to buy a gun has to have two people to attest to his/her character and who are willing to take financial responsibility if the gun being bought is used criminally.
I like the automobile model for gun ownership. Issuing licenses for particular types of guns, just as we do cars, with some minimum level of competency and knowledge would be a step in the right direction. So would regular reviews of safe functionality. Finally, the need to insure each gun, just like a car, would protect innocent bystanders from uncompensated harm and would place the insurance companies in the position of overseeing a gun owner’s record of safety.
I would also like to see some limits on the acquisition of ammunition, treating it less like jelly beans and more like OxyContin.
Oscar
January 10th, 2013
11:18 am
There have been tighter controls put in place to reduce drunk driving. There are things to do to make people more safe other than taking away guns and alcohol.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:19 am
Stevie Ray: I don’t agree a bit about locks on guns being an answer.
Why not? Locks can reduce accidental shootings within the household, specifically the kind where little 4 year old Timmy goes into the closet and gets mommy’s/daddy’s gun and blows his head off accidentally. Have you ever seen someone demonstrate how a child has to hold the gun in order to pull the trigger? Gun locks can also address guns that are stolen and end up in the hands of criminals that way. Do I think locks are the ultimate answer? Hell no, but a multi-layered, multi-tiered approach is the only way we’ll get anything done.
How exactly do you measure the efficacy of that?
Measure the drops in stolen guns, accidental shootings by kids/others, and drops in suicides for starters.
So you are also suggesting that in those prior events, these kids wouldn’t have found a means to secure the guns nonetheless?
When somebody’s dead set on getting something in a society as free and open as ours, it’s not a matter of IF they can get what they want, it’s a matter of WHEN they get it. There are people in this country that will sell their mother or their first born child if the price is right.
BlahBlahBlah
January 10th, 2013
11:21 am
I frequently hear left wingers say stuff like “we need a viable two party system”
Why? Are you afraid a day will come when you have no one else to blame but yourselves?
Jack ®
January 10th, 2013
11:22 am
While Obama and the donkey party gloat, paychecks for the same amount of work as last year are smaller this year. Social Security up 2% and the 10% bracket has disappeared. Those complaining about smaller paychecks probably voted for Obama.
td
January 10th, 2013
11:24 am
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:19 am
Stevie Ray: I don’t agree a bit about locks on guns being an answer.
Why not? Locks can reduce accidental shootings within the household,
And locks defeat the whole purpose of having a gun in the first place for self defense. What would have happened to that poor woman and children in Walton county last week if she had a lock on her gun and forgot to get the key when she was hurrying her kids to the closet to hide?
Tap Out
January 10th, 2013
11:24 am
GT @ 9:17am….that was great, thanks for the smile.
Aquagirl
January 10th, 2013
11:25 am
There have been tighter controls put in place to reduce drunk driving. There are things to do to make people more safe other than taking away guns and alcohol.
The reduction in drunk driving wasn’t just from government penalties, it was also a social change. Driving while plastered is no longer cool. If we treated the gun-slobbering and gun worship the same way we could reduce gun deaths. When your neighbor buys a pen!s substitute, don’t squeal “ooh, new toy!”
Mick
January 10th, 2013
11:26 am
jack
Social security just reverted back to its original rate; try blaming congress if thats your focus…
Rafe Hollister
January 10th, 2013
11:26 am
Every time one party seems to dominate, and everyone predicts the demise of the other party, the dominant party overreaches. The Dems are doing it now on gun control. Andrew Cuomo, sealed his defeat, in any national election yesterday, with his foaming at the mouth gun control diatribe.
Erwin's cat
January 10th, 2013
11:27 am
Why not? Locks can reduce accidental shootings within the household,
I thought we were trying to eliminate the mass shootings like Aurora and Sandy Hook how would a lock stop this?
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:28 am
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
10:07 am
Steve:
Wow maybe you should Google the enormous debt racked just during Oblama’s first term. He almost doubled it in 4 years….
++++++++++++++++++++
I really resent it when some ass uses MY religion as a name to spit out lies.
GT
January 10th, 2013
11:28 am
td I think long and hard about getting into a car after one drink more less drunk ,now days, not the case in the 70s and before. Wonder why that is? We are not talking about taking the gun away we are talking very similarly to the DUI laws enforcing something on guns instead of sitting here with our thumbs up our noses. What I have a very hard time understanding is the lack of remorse from these gun lobbies that are like tobacco companies in the last century refusing to admit the truth. It insults the entire country’s intelligence to be having this idiotic discussion.
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
11:29 am
td
And locks defeat the whole purpose of having a gun in the first place for self defense. What would have happened to that poor woman and children in Walton county last week if she had a lock on her gun and forgot to get the key when she was hurrying her kids to the closet to hide?
……………………………………………………………
Remember the ‘lemon squeezer’, easily equipped with a fingerprint lock
with no delay in access. Saying it can’t be done doesn’t make it true.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:29 am
And locks defeat the whole purpose of having a gun in the first place for self defense. What would have happened to that poor woman and children in Walton county last week if she had a lock on her gun and forgot to get the key when she was hurrying her kids to the closet to hide?
Oh ye of little knowledge, educate yourself…
http://www.amazon.com/Sequiam-BioBox-Biometric-Fingerprint-Safe/dp/B0016N1EJQ
If she had forgotten her FINGER, then I don’t think she would need to own or even handle a gun. Had you bothered to read what I posted, I suggested biometric locks long before. That lock box does nothing to hamper, hinder, or otherwise stop someone from having a gun available for home protection. It does, however, keep anybody outside the people with authorized access from getting their hands on the gun.
Erwin's cat
January 10th, 2013
11:30 am
The reduction in drunk driving wasn’t just from government penalties
Are there really fewer drinkers on the road? I know several people who have several DUI’s
Oscar
January 10th, 2013
11:30 am
Americans are pretty good about deciding which party and candidate are nearest to the center and leading in the direction they want to go. And they don’t mind going back and forth between parties as the parties change. I think that will ontinuue tobe the case.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:32 am
Brocephus: Speaking of guns……. we need to go shooting lol.
Shar: Thanks for your comments earlier. It’s nice to see that others see the need for two strong SANE parties.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:32 am
I thought we were trying to eliminate the mass shootings like Aurora and Sandy Hook how would a lock stop this?
As far as Sandy Hook, mom could have bought one of these for under $300. I’m sure she paid more for her rifles than that. A gun safe would not have addressed Aurora, which is why I said it would take a multi-layered, multi-tier approach. That doesn’t mean taking guns from anybody who doesn’t lawfully qualify to own them either.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 10th, 2013
11:32 am
Well, I hate to use Bookman’s blog this way, but somebody’s got to do it.
This is to all the TV station managers out there:
Please don’t fire anymore announcers or let them retire. You know and I know that the minute they leave their job they go straight to this FiftyFloor and sign on as a toady for this guy trying to sell you flooring. I just can’t stand one more FiftyFloor ad and besides they charge 10 times as much as they should to do the job. Let a good redneck do your new floor and you’ll pay only 3 times as much as you should.
Thank you, and we can return now to the pointless fussing about the GOP.
Oscar
January 10th, 2013
11:32 am
Deaths from drunk driving have decreased, for several reasons.
Deaths from guns can decrease also if we make sensible changes as well.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:33 am
EC
Meant to post this link in reference to Sandy Hook…
http://www.amazon.com/BARSKA-Quick-Access-Biometric-Rifle/dp/B005FDIUPE/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1357835440&sr=8-11&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:34 am
Fred
Cool. I’m thinking about buying a .45 in the near future, and I need to test out a few.
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
11:35 am
Did Americans have the right to own automatic weapons before
manufacturers created them? Can americans demand that
manufacturers create safer guns to protect their rights?
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:35 am
Even Scout and Del support reasonable gun safety laws and they are two of the more vocal and usually uncompromising conservatives on here. What does THAT say about what could be done?
Speaking of which, I haven’t seen either on in the last couple of days. Did something happen while I was gone?
td
January 10th, 2013
11:36 am
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:29 am
And who is going to pay for the cost of retrofitting 300 million guns with this device?
Aquagirl
January 10th, 2013
11:36 am
Are there really fewer drinkers on the road? I know several people who have several DUI’s
Well, there are fewer fatalities. There’s still a bunch though.
http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-statistics
And maybe it’s time for some new friends, lol.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:36 am
Brocephus: I was thinking trap shooting. Look at your phone sometime lol.
http://www.atlantaskeetshooting.com/
td
January 10th, 2013
11:37 am
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
11:35 am
Did Americans have the right to own automatic weapons before
manufacturers created them? Can americans demand that
manufacturers create safer guns to protect their rights?
American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.
Oscar
January 10th, 2013
11:38 am
Fred – I saw both of them post yesterdy, but they have not been on much recently, Not since the first Tuesday in November, I believe.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 10th, 2013
11:38 am
Td:
What’s the matter, no response to my challenge to you for being in the tank with right wing Democrats like Erskine Bowles?
Don’t care to defend him, then, is that correct?
I can understand kind’a. After all. That might be very awkward for you if it became revealed that you are right in line with large segments of the supposedly “left” Democratic party. Then it would become apparent that the Democratic party really isn’t so “left” after all. And we mustn’t have that confusion floating around.
Ain’t that right, td?
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:39 am
td: the gun owners can pay for their own safeties. Aren’t you from the party of RESPONSIBILITY?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.
Sure they do.
All it takes is the proper license.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
And who is going to pay for the cost of retrofitting 300 million guns with this device?
Do you even bother to look at information that people provide to you? That is NOT a device for a gun. It’s a damned lock box that’s opened only by fingerprints. Damn. To think that you own guns and are completely clueless about this kind of stuff is downright disturbing.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
Thanks Oscar. LOL Head to the bar at the mellow mushroom by our houses and I’ll buy you lunch (at noon).
snoqualmiefalls
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
Just a simple question for all… just who is the leader of the Republican Party?
Mitt Romney? Eric Cantor? Mitch Mcconnell? Rush Limbaugh? Just a thought, if you have a “war” you must have a leader.. So who is the flavor of the day? A member of the Tea Brigade or a Party Regular.. If I, not a person who subscribes to the Tea/GOP, can’t figure it out… how can you members of that persuasion do it? How about it Jay, can you name the current leader?
JamVet
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
cat, you know me,
all hot airI’m a lover, not a fighter. And at my age, both are not getting more any easier!barking frog
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
td
American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.
…………………………………………………………………..
I think you can with proper license which defeats the whole
argument against registration being unconstitutional.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:41 am
Fred
Sorry about the phone. Type B Flu is running through the household, so I’ve been taking care of the lil one and trying to keep mama from getting sick.
the cat
January 10th, 2013
11:42 am
td
January 10th, 2013
11:36 am
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:29 am
And who is going to pay for the cost of retrofitting 300 million guns with this device?
td-why don’t you ask one of the parents how much their child’s life was worth. How much is one of your child’s life worth? It doesn’t always have to be about money.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:42 am
American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.
Wrong. If you had to take a ownership test, I seriously doubt you’d be able to keep your guns.
SMDH…
Gale
January 10th, 2013
11:43 am
Thanks for that link, Fred. I haven’t been trap shooting in years. That makes me almost a beginner again.
philospher
January 10th, 2013
11:43 am
And I really hate to hear people use the name of my savior to hide hatred, intolerance, bigotry, and paranoia. Jesus teaches us to be liberal: liberal in our love of others, in our caring for others, and in our actions. We have been told to leave judging up to God and to leave government stuff to the government and matters of faith to God. There is no room for assault weapons in “Turn the other cheek.”… Jesus repaired the ear of the soldier who captured Him. Too many “Christians” want to cloak themselves in His name while having no intention of walking in His footsteps.
the cat
January 10th, 2013
11:44 am
Ownership test? I don’t think half the bloggers on here could pass a citizenship test. and these yahoos vote.
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
11:46 am
Jay’
The new Walmart popup blocks out your picture, nice improvement.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:47 am
Gale: A buddy took me this summer. It was great. I had actually never been before except on a farm over a pond with a self operated thrower…….
stands for decibels
January 10th, 2013
11:47 am
Driving while plastered is no longer cool. If we treated the gun-slobbering and gun worship the same way we could reduce gun deaths.
This really can’t be emphasized enough. Part of the solution is, in fact, changing the public’s attitudes about gun-nuttery. If the solid majority of Americans who already do not believe that you need a Bushmaster to have a “man card,” felt like a similar majority of representatives had their backs, they’d be a bit less reticent to proclaim this publicly.
Until then, though, I think you’ll have a truly “silent majority” who keep their feelings about gun worship to themselves.
Matti
January 10th, 2013
11:48 am
philosopher @ 11:43,
Amen, brother.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
11:48 am
gee Philosopher, so that was a s’ghetti noodle Jesus cleared the temple with? I never read about him healing ANY of the money lenders he horse whipped out of there……..
stands for decibels
January 10th, 2013
11:48 am
coinage SHEETZ
Gale
January 10th, 2013
11:51 am
Loved Trap. Skeet, not so much. I used to shoot skeet with a guy that was blind in one eye and could not see well with the other. He was a class B shooter. The targets fly the same every time, other conditions being equal. The only fun is a windy day.
fedup
January 10th, 2013
11:52 am
Jay people who wins in this deal Rupert (no looking into his doings after England and more viewers), Russ, etc of the same kind. They fire up their base and the money keeps rolling in.
td
January 10th, 2013
11:53 am
Oscar
January 10th, 2013
11:32 am
Deaths from drunk driving have decreased, for several reasons.
Deaths from guns can decrease also if we make sensible changes as well.
The changes being proposed to ban semi automatic rifles will do very little to curtail the deaths by guns each year since most deaths by guns are a result of hand guns.
td
January 10th, 2013
12:00 pm
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
11:40 am
Nope I did not go to your link about the lockbox because I thought you were talking about the fingerprint technology available on the gun grip and therefore the cost issue. I could care less about the lock box because one of my guns is either on me, beside me or locked in my car (for those places I can not exercise my Constitutional right to carry 24/7.
I see you still has that nasty ass hat attitude.
DownInAlbany
January 10th, 2013
12:01 pm
td
January 10th, 2013
11:37 am
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
11:35 am
American citizens still do not have the right to own automatic weapons.
Wrong. Citizens can own automatic weapons, but, you have to have a federal license to do so.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
12:05 pm
I see you still has that nasty ass hat attitude.
Wrong. I actually feel sorry for you. If you consider that being nasty, then that’s on you.
nobodyyouknow
January 10th, 2013
12:06 pm
Do I remember correctly back when Bush was elected and the majority in the Senate and congress was Repubs. everybody in the media asking “whats wrong wuth the Democratic party”? What do they need to do to get their power back? Is the Democratic party finished? Obama was elected because he’s BLACK! Period. No mater his policies. Anyway all the problems we have today are BUSH’S fault. Just ask Mr. PEANUT, Jimmy Carter. Go back before O’bama was elected. When he was campaigning, every thing he said needed to be done to get this country back on track he’s done the opposite. He’s a typical politician. Say what they want to hear and then SCREW EM!
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
12:07 pm
Nope I did not go to your link about the lockbox because I thought you were talking about the fingerprint technology available on the gun grip and therefore the cost issue.
Well, maybe the next time you should click on the information I provide to you so that you do know what I’m talking about instead of assuming. Your assumption record with me is completely awful, and anybody else would have quit long ago after making themselves look that bad time and time again. You, however, try to make it all about me and my “attitude”. Must be embarassing to be you.
td
January 10th, 2013
12:16 pm
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
12:07 pm
Do I come on these blogs and personally attack you (before you start your personal attacks)?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
12:23 pm
E. Cat — “don’t know…do you?”
No, but please let me know if you hear about any of the bereaved families of Newtown arguing for relaxing any firearm regulations.
“The best reason for getting an assault rifle now is because so many others in the community already have them.”
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Also known as the ‘if Jimmy jumped off a skyscraper, would you do it too’ argument
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
12:32 pm
Do I come on these blogs and personally attack you (before you start your personal attacks)?
Did I accuse you of such? I didn’t attack you. I merely pointed out that, had you bothered to even read what I linked, you would have known what I was talking about as opposed to ASSUMING. That’s your problem, dude. You KNOW that you know everything and assume crap instead of actually responding to what people are talking about.
I don’t have a problem with you at all, regardless to what you think. I think you would be much better off using active listening skills as opposed to assuming things about people though. Take that advice for whatever you see it for.
godless heathen
January 10th, 2013
12:38 pm
well ordered militia.
I don’t see no language like that in my version of the Bill of Rights. Gale must have the secret gun-grabber edition.
Mine says “well-regulated” and from constitution.org:
“The phrase “well-regulated” was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.”
dbm
January 10th, 2013
12:51 pm
Georgia on my mind…
January 10th, 2013
8:02 am
As long as the Democrat Party remains united and focused on a short term, narrowly focused approach to the needs of the lower and middle class Americans, an approach that depends mainly on more and more government, and the Republicans fail to mount an effective opposition, the country will continue to appear to evolve and progress, but will actually be moving closer and closer to the brink. If it takes long enough to reach the brink, there’s still a chance to save the country and the world, but the Republican party will have to drastically change if it is to be part of such saving.
philospher
January 10th, 2013
12:59 pm
Dear Fred. Overturning the tables and chasing off religeous creeps in the act of robbing the faithful who were trying to worship was His business. I find no such directives for me to follow…in fact, what I see are clear instructions to NOT lay up treasures on earth…and a warning about the likelihood of rich people getting into heaven…a discussion for another time and place.
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
1:15 pm
Fred ™:
I really resent it when some ass uses MY religion as a name to spit out lies.
What lie?
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
1:25 pm
Granny Godzilla:
Didn’t you hear Mr Republican himself on gun control?
Did you read the op-ed? Obviously not.. Reagan said nothing about a weapons ban. He wanted a sensible gun control. I have no problem with background checks. I have no problem not selling to the mentally ill. That’s what Reagan was for and it was clearly stated that way in his article…
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
3:41 pm
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
1:15 pm
Fred ™:
I really resent it when some ass uses MY religion as a name to spit out lies.
What lie?
+++++++++++++++
You doubling the debt lie. You know what lie you hoser.
Joel Edge
January 11th, 2013
7:04 am
The wrangling and squabbling in the GOP is how a party is supposed to behave, Jay. But for some reason we don’t see any of that in the Democrat party. Wonder why.
Who wins a GOP civil war? The Democrats do | Jay Bookman - TheGOPNet
January 11th, 2013
12:46 pm
[...] Who wins a GOP civil war? The Democrats do | Jay Bookman. Short URL: [...]
BT
January 12th, 2013
10:38 pm
I think a look at the history of the Democrat Party will show that infighting is not a new phenomena .Perhaps a look back to the 60’s and 70’s would be enlightening.
Jeffrey
January 14th, 2013
12:34 pm
Interesting how when Obama romps all over them the Pubbies dismiss the Electoral College as irrelevant. However When Bush “wins” by a handful of votes in the Electoral College and loses the popular vote the Electoral College is “Da Bomb”!