Who wins a GOP civil war? The Democrats do
In the days to come, we’ll be witness to bitter and increasingly personal battles fought out in Washington over issues that range from Hurricane Sandy relief efforts to immigration reform and the debt ceiling.
And of course, that’s just among the Republicans. Deep divides are already apparent within the party on how to approach those and other issues, and it’s hard to envision how those differences will be resolved any time soon. To the contrary, in the frustration of defeat, many in the party have begun to turn on each other, raising the very real specter of a GOP civil war.
In the words of Josh Kraushaar, executive editor of National Journal, “I’ve long been skeptical about the feasibility of a third party, but I’m beginning to entertain the possibility that the GOP could become split apart as these policy debates come to the fore…. Is it that much of a stretch to believe that by 2016, the grassroots base will have taken control of the Republican Party, and the establishment will be looking to bolt?”
I know what he means, because I’ve been having similar thoughts myself. Talk of third parties has always been silly in my experience, largely because we operate in a political environment in which two parties are the stable status quo. That said, I also can’t recall seeing a party so at odds with itself as the modern GOP.
Senate Republicans are sniping at their counterparts in the House, who in turn dismiss GOP senators as enemy collaborators. Northeast Republicans publicly accuse the party of caring only about the South, and half the party lives in fear of being labeled RINO by the other half. The party’s professionals blame its predicament on a lack of realism within the GOP media, while the conservative entertainment industry attacks party professionals as profiteers who lack a true commitment to the cause.
Part of the internal rancor can be explained by the nature of the GOP in recent years. When you turn inflexibility into a core party value, you make it all but impossible to make adjustments when the wind changes.
In addition, GOP leadership adopted a strategy of turning Barack Obama into the personification of all that its base feared and opposed, inspiring its followers with the belief that by defeating Obama they would “take back the country.” When it turned out that a majority of their fellow Americans did not want the country “taken back,” the revelation left many in the GOP stunned, uncertain of what to do next.
Perhaps most important, the GOP has functioned more as a fervent social crusade than as a political party. Certain of victory and fired by righteousness, important elements of the national party have shown little capacity for handling defeat. They have no ability to think in terms of minimizing loss and living to fight another day. They fail to understand that retreat need not mean surrender, and that compromise is not capitulation. And that lack of strategic vision threatens to turn retreat into a rout.
The wiser among them understand that, yet they also seem helpless to prevent it. In an op-ed back in December in the Wall Street Journal, Karl Rove in effect begged Barack Obama to save the GOP from a civil war with itself, warning the president that Republican infighting could cause “significant collateral damage” to his second term.
More recently, columnist Charles Krauthammer took a similar tack, accusing Obama of a plot “to fracture and basically shatter the Republican opposition … His objective from the very beginning was to break the will of the Republicans in the House, and to create an internal civil war. And he’s done that.”
I suspect it’s true that Obama is less than heart-broken to see his opponents in such disarray. It’s also true that he seems intent on making the most of the opportunity, forcing the Republicans to make a series of difficult, divisive policy and strategic decisions at a time when they are ill-prepared to do so.
But I have to say, it’s darkly humorous to see a take-no-prisoner political warrior such as Rove try to make the case for mercy. That is perhaps the most telling measure of the GOP’s predicament.
– Jay Bookman
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371 comments Add your comment
Welcome to the Occupation
January 10th, 2013
9:26 am
Remember that in a modern political system parties tend to be reflections of the state of other parties. This is particularly true of a two-party system. So if the GOP are in shambles, then that also and simultaneously says something important about the Democrats. The task is to figure our what.
MiltonMan
January 10th, 2013
9:28 am
“Can it be that MiltonMan actually learned a valuable lesson from the GWB-GOP reign.”
just like Obama, Bushie won re-election. Heck, at least cons know how to jump a sinking ship – reason being Bushie left office with only a 20-30% approval rating.
liberal hack
January 10th, 2013
9:29 am
Yea it does Danny, you keep saying Obama is a fiscally sound/responsible president. Why hasn’t he cut wasteful departments from the Federal gov’t?
td
January 10th, 2013
9:29 am
We shall see how much the Dems stay together when they actually have to govern and come up with some actual cuts in the budget. The far left about went nuts when Obama suggested touching the CPI on social security.
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:29 am
Fred – back in the times before blogs, when email was a new concept, I sent Jay an email telling him to move his desk away from Tucker. He returned a terse reply that his thoughts are his own.
I continue to call Jay out for being overly influenced by the Leftist media machine, but clearly he is a Liberal geograhically out of place. I can’t say I am not influenced by others around me, but being Conservative is natural to someone of my age, place of birth, education and family. I was Conservative long before ever hearing Rush and/or watching FOX. I don’t need others to tell me what I believe.
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:30 am
“Heck, at least cons know how to jump a sinking ship –”
Seeing that he couldn’t run for a 3rd term and his VP wasn’t running for President, are you really saying that much?
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
9:30 am
Fred: I fell we NEED a strong right wing just as we need a strong left wing. We NEED the Republicans to put the brakes on some of the over zealous social programs of the left just as we need the left to drag the right kicking and screaming into this century. We need you both cowboy and right now the Right is letting down the Country with this ignorant crap they have been doing.
Thank you!!!! That needs to be posted at the top of every page on this topic.
DownInAlbany
January 10th, 2013
9:30 am
Another day, another left-wing rant from Bookman and his parrots. All things Dem = sane and responsible. All things Rep = insane and irresponsible. Got it.
Like any opinions expressed on this blog make a plugged-nickel difference to anyone other than the one with his/her fingers on the key board. Your self-importance is humorous!
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:31 am
And for the newbies who think JohnnyReb is trying to relive the War of Northern Agression, look up Statist for a clue on why I chose the handle.
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
9:32 am
Welcome to the Occupation
Remember that in a modern political system parties tend to be reflections of the state of other parties. This is particularly true of a two-party system. So if the GOP are in shambles, then that also and simultaneously says something important about the Democrats. The task is to figure our what
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
I do agree to an extent, and like Reagan, I don’t think speaking badly of
your party is beneficial nor do I think appointing people from the other
party accomplishes anything either.
DannyX
January 10th, 2013
9:32 am
“Yea it does Danny, you keep saying Obama is a fiscally sound/responsible president.”
hack, please show me where I have said that. I’ll be waiting.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 10th, 2013
9:32 am
Why hasn’t he cut wasteful departments from the Federal gov’t?
You do realize that doing things like closing bases, relocating prisoners, rearranging government departments often is blocked by members of Congress and takes budget changes. But tell us which “wasteful depts.” you would cut and how it can be done immediately.
Cherokee
January 10th, 2013
9:32 am
Aquagirl
January 10th, 2013
9:03 am
How true, especially when you’re followed immediately by an example of the poo slinging tea party crowd…
RIGHTISWRONG
January 10th, 2013
9:32 am
To ALL on the RIGHT that do not really take in this very well written article on the state of your party to heart, consider yourself a gerbal. You will be going round and round.
The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over.
Your inflexibility with regard to race, women’s rights, taxes, marriage equality, etc., make the MAJORITY of TODAY’s society uncomfortable. PERIOD. It’s arrogant, ignorant, blatant, and dismissive to everyone that is non-white, a woman, not straight, not a native, young, is not of means, and the list of people that you offend seems to never end.
It’s easy math, it’s not enough old white men now to win a general election, and there will be even fewer by percentage in each successive NEW election. The US is changing demographically into more of a melting pot Nationally. The MORAL MAJORITY is now inclusive.
Like Stevie J says,”You better get on the bus!” GOP. lol. Happy New Year 2 all Americans….
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
9:33 am
We shall see how much the Dems stay together when they actually have to govern and come up with some actual cuts in the budget.
I don’t recall the Dems running on a platform to cut the budget. That idea has been the golden stake in the GOP’s railroad to drive Obama out of DC. It didn’t work, and the GOP still have not come up with actual cuts. Neither party is governing worth a damn, but the GOP is sucking worse. The national elections should be proof of that, but some still refuse to see facts for what they are.
Granny Godzilla
January 10th, 2013
9:33 am
War of Northern Aggression? Statist?
.
.
.
Mental health backround check needed there.
MiltonMan
January 10th, 2013
9:33 am
“The GOP started with the goal of destroying the President by any means possible and
end up destroying themselves.”
The GOP is destroyed here in GA??? I thought the GOP gained a US House seat here in the state. The GOP now, or soon will have, a super-majority in the state senate, the GA Democratic party was officially broke last year, the dem sheriff in Clayton County is a criminal, etc., etc. Do the dems even have a viable candidate to run vs. Deal in 14???
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:35 am
Look no futher than Biden’s comment on Obama using an Executive Order on gun control to see why the Right is so angry at the administration. Biden’s an idiot, what he suggests unconstitutional, and chosing Biden for VP is indicative of just how screwedup is little Barry.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
9:36 am
U. Samantha, I would be fine with Thurbert Baker either running for Governor next time or for Saxby’s seat in the Senate. In fact, Baker’s one of the two men I would *like* to see run for that Senate seat.
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:36 am
Granny, you little Statist. Don’t play dumb.
GT
January 10th, 2013
9:37 am
George Wallace ran for president when he was shot. It amazed me at the time how much support he got up north. The guy wasn’t going to win, though being shot guaranteed it, but he pulled states like Michigan and had to be guarded. The message of hate is a strong message when it is dress up like it is going to church or has feelings other than hate. To have a party that has one size fits all will not play well. Even old George hid his colors running in an established party’s primary, which was his only hope to be president.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
9:37 am
DIA — “Another day, another left-wing rant from Bookman and his parrots. All things Dem = sane and responsible. All things Rep = insane and irresponsible. Got it.”
And here I thought we had a nice conversation yesterday afternoon, you and me.
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:39 am
“But, everyone seemed to be forgetting somewhat recent history, that at least two Presidents have used executive orders to limit some weapons – and I’ve covered both.
The first time it happened was in 1989, after a mass school shooting Stockton, California, as President George H.W. Bush used a 1968 gun control law to limit the importation of foreign firearms – his executive order banned the shipment of certain assault weapons, unless they were used for sporting purposes.
In 1998, President Bill Clinton expanded on the Bush Administration move by banning the import of almost five dozen different assault weapons that had been modified to get through that “sporting purposes” exemption.”
http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2013/01/10/executive-orders-and-gun-controls/?cxntfid=blogs_jamie_dupree_washington_insider
MiltonMan
January 10th, 2013
9:40 am
“Seeing that he couldn’t run for a 3rd term and his VP wasn’t running for President, are you really saying that much?”
Are libs really this clueless??? No wonder there is so much investigating going on in liberal educational strongholds like APS, DeKalb & Clayton. Good God man Bushie Jr. could not run for a 3rd term something called the 22nd Admendment of the US Constitution – read it sometime there chief.
Even if there was not the 22nd, Bushie Jr. would not have been re-elected a 3rd time
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:40 am
Statist = A word only Fundamentalist Libertarians think are insulting.
Socialist Society = Star Trek
Libertarian Society = Mad Max
joe
January 10th, 2013
9:41 am
Dems are the worst thing to hit the USA since herpes.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
9:41 am
I can’t say I am not influenced by others around me, but being Conservative is natural to someone of my age, place of birth, education and family. I was Conservative long before ever hearing Rush and/or watching FOX. I don’t need others to tell me what I believe.
Really JohnnyReb? Maybe you need to back up and take stock of exactly what it IS you believe. I was a Republican until the blithering idiots took over, the Rush/FOXBOT types. i remember when the Republicans DID for the most part held the moral high ground and weren’t led by a 3 times divorced drug addict. I remember the Republicans BEFORE they gained the majority and turned away from their ideals and only strove to keep power.
I was a Republican when to be a Republican didn’t mean you had to be a god dammned liar like it does today. Evry Rush/FOXBOT lie you type here proves my point. Every hate filled act you commit and condone here proves my point. There was a time when Republican meant something. It meant honor and integrity. Boy howdy are those days long past. Now Republican means a big fat liar led around by the nose by a money grubbing filthy rich drug addict.
Every Rush/FOXBOT “ideal” you post takes away and credibility you ever had for having your own thoughts and ideas.
Don’t tel;l me what a Republican USED to be, because I remember quite well. What you don’t want to admit is what a Republican is NOW and how disgusting and repugnant that is.
RB from Gwinnett
January 10th, 2013
9:41 am
“In the days to come, we’ll be witness to bitter and increasingly personal battles fought out in Washington over issues that range from Hurricane Sandy relief efforts ”
Only a complete lying sack o dung would make that comment, Jay. You know darn well the issue isn’t about Sandy relief, but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill and YOU and your cohorts are just playing silly political games with it to the delight of your low information voter friends who are too damn stupid to learn the truth about what’s behind the story.
Stop calling yourself a journalist if you can’t do any better than that.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 10th, 2013
9:42 am
Biden’s an idiot, what he suggests unconstitutional, and chosing Biden for VP is indicative of just how screwedup is little Barry
Your ODS is flaring up this morning. You may want to see a doctor.
But do tell us how Executive Orders regarding aspects of “gun control” which have not been finalized are “unconstitutional” in light of Heller and other court decisions. Or you can yell “wolverine” again and continue to support NRA stupidity like threatening AZ that they cannot destroy guns bought in a gun buyback funded by private money but rather must sell them at auctions. http://www.salon.com/2013/01/09/nra_board_member_threatened_lawsuit_over_arizona_gun_buyback
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:43 am
but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill
There’s as much pork in that bill as in the kitchen fridge at PETA!
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:44 am
Milton
You can’t see for forest through the trees. Republicans and conservatives “jumping ship” was your slow a$$es not realizing what you had been told over Bush’s two terms.
What did it take, 6 yrs or so for you to realize Bush wasn’t that good?
You act like it was some revelation of the right. It was nothing more than catching up with everyone else
Granny Godzilla
January 10th, 2013
9:44 am
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:35 am
Look no futher than Biden’s comment on Obama using an Executive Order on gun control to see why the Right is so angry at the administration. Biden’s an idiot, what he suggests unconstitutional, and chosing Biden for VP is indicative of just how screwedup is little Barry.
.
.
.
.
Executive Orders are unconstitutional now?
skipper
January 10th, 2013
9:44 am
I am not so sure about a third party not being needed, Jay. Its just that the so-called “other” wacko-party folks (green, etc.) who are fringe and not much else are not relevant (and should not be.) What about a common-sense party? Good old walkin’ around common sense? The repubs are too right, the dems are too left. That does not mean one has to be indecisive or wishy-washy. It just means that zealotry on either side needs to be tempered by common sense!
Bro……help me out here……..
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
9:44 am
Fred — “I was a Republican when to be a Republican didn’t mean you had to be a god dammned liar like it does today.”
“Don’t tel;l me what a Republican USED to be, because I remember quite well. What you don’t want to admit is what a Republican is NOW and how disgusting and repugnant that is.”
Preach, sir!
I remember the same things you do (and apparently the same way you remember them), because back then was when *I* was a Republican, too.
liberal hack
January 10th, 2013
9:44 am
So Danny, you admit your President is a irresponsible spender. That’s my point. Every time someone mentions fiscal restraint you throw out medicare part d, unfunded wars, ect….
Keep, you are right about Congress not cooperating. We do need more of that.
I’d closed every base in Europe and reduce by 20% the man power on US bases. I’d reduce by 50%, the Federal military civilian employee, I’d go w/ a flat rate on taxes w/ the only deduction being a personal one, increases w/ no. Of dependents and annually w/ rate of inflation, causing me to reduce IRS staff by 75%, simple tax code/fewer agents needed for enforcement. Eliminate PBS funding, eliminate All energy subsidies, get rid of department of education, combine FBI and Secret Service, hopefully streamlining that agency. Stop subsidizing agriculture.
The other half of your brain.
January 10th, 2013
9:45 am
Uncle Billy
January 10th, 2013
8:17 am
The Republicans I know are having trouble comprehending that the era of the domination of the white man is over.
” DUH, Have you looked at who Obama surrounds himself with, They ain’t Black people dude.”
Granny Godzilla
January 10th, 2013
9:45 am
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:36 am
Granny, you little Statist. Don’t play dumb.
.
.
.
I don’t play your games Mr. Silly Pants.
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
9:45 am
Look no futher than Biden’s comment on Obama using an Executive Order on gun control to see why the Right is so angry at the administration.
Courtesy of Jamie Dupree….
But, everyone seemed to be forgetting somewhat recent history, that at least two Presidents have used executive orders to limit some weapons – and I’ve covered both.
The first time it happened was in 1989, after a mass school shooting Stockton, California, as President George H.W. Bush used a 1968 gun control law to limit the importation of foreign firearms – his executive order banned the shipment of certain assault weapons, unless they were used for sporting purposes.
In 1998, President Bill Clinton expanded on the Bush Administration move by banning the import of almost five dozen different assault weapons that had been modified to get through that “sporting purposes” exemption.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2013/01/10/executive-orders-and-gun-controls/
DannyX
January 10th, 2013
9:46 am
Jay’s quote…
“In the days to come, we’ll be witness to bitter and increasingly personal battles fought out in Washington over issues that range from Hurricane Sandy relief efforts ”
rb’s reply…
Only a complete lying sack o dung would make that comment, Jay. You know darn well the issue isn’t about Sandy relief, but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill and YOU and your cohorts are just playing silly political games with it to the delight of your low information voter friends who are too damn stupid to learn the truth about what’s behind the story.
Stop calling yourself a journalist if you can’t do any better than that.”
____________
You really have outdone yourself this time rb! Classic.
MiltonMan
January 10th, 2013
9:46 am
“I would be fine with Thurbert Baker either running for Governor next time or for Saxby’s seat in the Senate.”
Baker could not even beat the re-tread Barnes in the democrat primary. What makes you think he can win a general election??? Baker would be easily defeated – heck bring back Bob Barr as a dem. He would have a better chance than Baker to win.
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
9:46 am
You know darn well the issue isn’t about Sandy relief, but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill and YOU and your cohorts are just playing silly political games with it to the delight of your low information voter friends who are too damn stupid to learn the truth about what’s behind the story.
In other words, THIS is what Rush says about it………
TaxPayer
January 10th, 2013
9:46 am
Herpes! Herpe the Love Bug. I remember that movie. Back in 9th or 10h grade sex ed class or something like that.
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:47 am
Here’s the pork in the Sandy relief bill, from that bastion of liberalism, FORBES:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/01/03/pork-holding-up-senate-sandy-relief-bill-funneled-into-the-troughs-of-gop-deficit-hawks-you-betcha/
Why, you might ask, would the Senate be packing billions of taxpayer dollars for these areas of the country that are nowhere near the devastation brought about by superstorm Sandy into a bill designed to bring relief to those suffering from the storm that ripped the northeastern part of the nation?
The answer can be found in a quick review of the states that are set to benefit from the Senate’s extra-special benevolence—states including Alabama, Mississippi, Texas and Louisiana.
What, you may ask, do these states far from New York and New Jersey have in common?
Each is not only a red state, but each of these states are represented by two Republican senators—with the exception of Louisiana with its one GOP senator.
And what happens when you buy off seven Republican senators with a package of goodies under the guise of storm relief supposedly meant to benefit two blue states?
You get yourself a filibuster proof piece of legislation.
Coincidence? Not at all. We know this because Harry Reid told us so in press conference held on December 20, a time when everyone’s attention was so glued to the fiscal cliff drama that any talk of any other bills was completely lost in the wind.
DannyX
January 10th, 2013
9:48 am
“So Danny, you admit your President is a irresponsible spender. That’s my point. Every time someone mentions fiscal restraint you throw out medicare part d, unfunded wars, ect….”
You just keep making things up!
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
9:48 am
Should this link be forwarded to Gov. Christie ?
http://www.fema.gov/disaster-process-disaster-aid-programs
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
9:49 am
TBS @ 9:39
Read that one too, huh???
I remember that Stockton shooting because I did a research paper surrounding school violence around that time.
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:49 am
Look no futher than Biden’s comment on Obama using an Executive Order on gun control to see why the Right is so angry at the administration.
Yes, I remember how strongly you were against these when Republican Presidents were in office and did the EXACT. SAME. THING.
The other half of your brain.
January 10th, 2013
9:49 am
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:43 am
but the mounds of pork that have been dumped on that bill
There’s as much pork in that bill as in the kitchen fridge at PETA!
” Adam, while that was funny it’s not true. You need to do some reading on what is in the bill. “
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
9:50 am
JHM: Speaking of tossed out Republican RINO’s ……….
Has Butch been around lately? I don’t recall seeing him for a while. Or Gmare either, although Gmare hated me lol.
Steve
January 10th, 2013
9:50 am
MiltonMan – so how’s it really like up there in the land of heavy traffic, stepfordwives, cookie cutter strip malls, chain restaurants and insanely painful commutes into town, and high property taxes? I’ll take my intown living ANY DAY.
td
January 10th, 2013
9:51 am
Erskine Bowles said this morning that we spend 100% of the money coming into the Federal government each year on interest payments and entitlement programs. Every penny we spend on defense, education, food safety ect is borrowed from China.
Sure we do not have a spending problem.
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:51 am
The pork argument was a smokescreen. Republicans just want to play games and not make decisions, as I noted on page 1.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
9:51 am
M.Man — “Baker could not even beat the re-tread Barnes in the democrat primary. What makes you think he can win a general election???”
First, I didn’t say that he *could.* I simply said that I’d like to see him run for it. Pay closer attention.
Second, if you voted for Mitt Romney last November — the guy who came in second in the GOP Presidential primary in 2008, then STFU.
“Baker would be easily defeated – heck bring back Bob Barr as a dem. He would have a better chance than Baker to win.”
Barr’s an overflowing douchebag. I can’t see myself voting for him under any circumstances.
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:51 am
Fred: Has Butch been around lately? I don’t recall seeing him for a while. Or Gmare either, although Gmare hated me lol.
They are probably still here under new names.
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:52 am
Bro
Wonder if anyone who has been feigning outrage over any potential Obama EO’s regarding firearms will comment?
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:52 am
td: Erskine Bowles said this morning that we spend 100% of the money coming into the Federal government each year on interest payments and entitlement programs. Every penny we spend on defense, education, food safety ect is borrowed from China.
Really? Erskine Bowles said every penny we spend on defense, education, food safety, etc, is borrowed from CHina.
Cite please.
Because that’s not actually true.
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
9:53 am
I realize you and other left wing loons in the media want a shattered GOP but it ain’t happening Jay. They will come together on the debt ceiling and hopefully shut down this monstrosity we call a gubmint. What you fail to realize or maybe just don’t want to mention is that the dem party is so far left out of the mainstream now. Why don’t you want to talk about that? Unfettered abortion, homosexual marriage, take guns away, higher taxes, cutting of the military to make us weaker, executive orders, taking GOD out of the public eye… I could go on and on with things the American people if informed will surly not stand for….
JamVet
January 10th, 2013
9:53 am
I have written for years that a dysfunctional GOP – and there is no doubt that that adjective applies – is NOT good for this republic.
But two things have to happen and I don’t think they will. Nor for many more years.
This gawdawful Reagan/Gingrich/Bush neoconservatism must be crushed and replaced with authentic, genuine American conservatism. The kind that used to exist in this country and which served us well. But these Republicans cannot even bring themselves to admit that they are not conservatives.
Secondly, and along those lines, unless and until the Republicans stop playing the blame everybody else game and start blaming themselves for their current condition, things are not going to get better for them.
So in lieu of a once again rational, reasonable GOP that moves back toward the political center, accepts science, stops being pro- endless war, pro-corporatocracy, anti-working class, anti-environment and throws out the religious nutjobs and charlatans in power, it is probably best that we have this emasculated mess.
It is certainly better than returning to the Reign of Error…
liberal hack
January 10th, 2013
9:53 am
How am I making things up? I don’t see the President as being fiscally responsible. You tell me where I’m wrong, Danny. My point is every time someone brings up the subject of fiscal responsibility, you blame the repubs, show me where democrats are responsible!
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
9:54 am
Fred — “Has Butch been around lately? I don’t recall seeing him for a while. Or Gmare either, although Gmare hated me lol.”
Seems like Butch posted a drive-by either early this week or late last week. He didn’t stick around, though.
And didn’t GMare have some sort of major surgery? Or was it one of our other lady regulars that did?
Aquagirl
January 10th, 2013
9:54 am
The answer can be found in a quick review of the states that are set to benefit from the Senate’s extra-special benevolence—states including Alabama, Mississippi, Texas and Louisiana.
It’s still Obama’s fault. Or something.
Granny Godzilla
January 10th, 2013
9:54 am
td
January 10th, 2013
9:51 am
Erskine Bowles said this morning that we spend 100% of the money coming into the Federal government each year on interest payments and entitlement programs. Every penny we spend on defense, education, food safety ect is borrowed from China.
.
.
.
.
Numberish stuff above sounds funky considering what the actual % of our debt China owns.
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:54 am
It is so outrageous that Obama is overstepping his authority with executive overreach! My God, it’s SO outrageous that the man who helped Cheney and Bush do EXACTLY THE SAME THING is now investigating them for it!
Fred ™
January 10th, 2013
9:54 am
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:51 am
Fred: Has Butch been around lately? I don’t recall seeing him for a while. Or Gmare either, although Gmare hated me lol.
They are probably still here under new names.
+++++++++++++++++
Why would they be? They weren’t brain dead Republicans talking about how bad Obama was going to lose……….
Besides, neither one was lacking in honor enough to post as anyone other than who they were.
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:55 am
“Unfettered abortion, homosexual marriage, take guns away, higher taxes, cutting of the military to make us weaker, executive orders, taking GOD out of the public eye…”
talk radio, breitbart and theblaze much?
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:55 am
What you fail to realize or maybe just don’t want to mention is that the dem party is so far left out of the mainstream now.
File under “Things you have to say to get into the mental health problem database”
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:56 am
Adam & Fred
I have seen Butch on a few times, but not Gmare.
TBG was asking about her a few weeks ago. Been awhile since I have seen her post anything.
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:56 am
Fred: Why would they be? They weren’t brain dead Republicans talking about how bad Obama was going to lose……….
Besides, neither one was lacking in honor enough to post as anyone other than who they were.
You’re probably right.
The other half of your brain.
January 10th, 2013
9:57 am
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:52 am
Bro
Wonder if anyone who has been feigning outrage over any potential Obama EO’s regarding firearms will comment?
” What we need to do is take all the high capacity weapons and send them to Mexico, Oh wait… we did that.
Dirty Dawg
January 10th, 2013
9:57 am
If you haven’t been watching Oliver Stone’s Untold History of America, suggest you go to Showtime On Demand and catch up with the past 75 years or so. Spoiler Alert – you probably won’t like what you’ll see and hear, and if you do then I’m sorry for you…not that it matters or that you’ll care.
TBS
January 10th, 2013
9:57 am
JHM
You are correct. It was Gmare. She posted a few times after her surgery, but that was a few months back.
td
January 10th, 2013
9:58 am
Adam
January 10th, 2013
9:52 am
Go watch today’s Morning Joe on MSNBC.
Middle class tax breaks on the line
January 10th, 2013
9:58 am
President Obama wants to tie spending cuts to tax revenue hikes in the debt ceiling talks, but that could mean trouble for the middle class taxpayers he has pledged to protect.
They’ll have to go down to where the real money is, which is the middle class,” said Brian Gardner, Washington policy analyst with Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, an investment bank. “Politically, that would be very tough.”
The White House and Congress just finished a bruising fiscal cliff battle that raises taxes on the rich by $618 billion over a decade. Next up is the debt ceiling debate and dealing with the sequester — automatic spending cuts set to kick in by early March.
Republicans want any debt limit increases to be coupled with spending cuts. In return, Democrats are demanding more revenue, mentioning closing loopholes and corporate subsidies like the $38 billion given to the oil industry over 10 years.
But to bring in significant tax revenues, lawmakers would have to tap into some politically sensitive tax deductions, said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition.
“The problem with exempting the middle class from any pain is that it’s hard to make the numbers work,” Bixby said. “Corporate tax loopholes are not as large as the ones for individuals.”
How to raise a trillion dollars
Tax exclusions and deductions total roughly $1.1 trillion a year, but less than 10% benefit corporations, according to the Tax Policy Center. That means most cuts to those benefits would hit individuals.
So who would pay? Further restricting itemized deductions and exclusions for the rich could be one way to bring in several hundred billion dollars over a decade, but there may not be enough there to raise enough revenue to balance out the spending cuts.
Eliminating several other major tax breaks could also bring in billions a year in savings for the government, but would amount to tax increases on the middle class people that benefit from them.
For example, the largest exclusion is the one for employer health insurance, which totals $164 billion for fiscal 2014, according to the Congressional Research Service. This one spares the 60% of Americans who have employer-sponsored coverage from paying taxes on the share of health insurance premiums paid for by their companies. Without the tax break, companies might offer less generous plans.
Related: Your taxes under the fiscal cliff deal
Another tax break that helps the middle class save for retirement is the one for employer-provided pensions, which allow companies to offer tax-deferred pensions and 401(k)s. But at a cost of nearly $163 billion in revenue, this one could also be a major target for savings.
And one of the most cherished middle-class tax breaks — the mortgage interest deduction — costs nearly $100 billion a year. Nearly 40% of filers claiming this deduction make between $50,000 and $100,000 a year.
But major reform of any kind still faces many obstacles. The Democrats won’t have a lot of leverage to negotiate any tax increases going forward, experts said. The Republicans were more willing to bend during the fiscal cliff negotiations because they were facing a massive tax hike on everyone had the Bush tax cuts expired. Now, there’s no such threat.
“The incentive to support major tax reform is gone,” said George Yin, a law professor at the University of Virginia and former chief of staff at Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/10/news/economy/middle-class-tax/
GT
January 10th, 2013
9:58 am
The one irrepressible truth that backs Jay and the rest of us up is we are winning. The state of Georgia will start going to the left I predict because the right wing policies are killing a good state, literally sucking the blood out of it. You can spend billions of campaign dollars on lies but somehow the truth that your children have no health care, your children have no education, and no future mutates around those lies. The communist found that out, one party gives you nothing but leftover mystery. It is the chains of slavery.
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
9:59 am
Christian Conservative
I could go on and on with things the American people if informed will surly not stand for….
……………………………………………………
surly is an apropos typo…
JohnnyReb
January 10th, 2013
9:59 am
Bro – both of those executive orders address imports. If Barry does that and only that, it will probably pass muster. But he typically oversteps, has done so and only not called out on it becasue of Sentate control. If he tries to by-pass Congress and put in place a ban that has already been law then repealed, you will see one hell of a Constitutional authority fight. Regardless, Biden is an idiot.
N-GA
January 10th, 2013
10:00 am
There are many ways to say this, but I’ll try to keep it simple. The USA is composed of every demographic. Male/female, rich/poor, straight/gay, religious/non-religious, educated/uneducated, white/black/latino/asian. The Democrats have accepted people with a diversity of beliefs and behaviors. There is room for all. The Republicans have gone out of their way to exclude certain people. The Democrats are united in their disparity. The Republicans are divided from everyone not like them.
The other half of your brain.
January 10th, 2013
10:02 am
This gawdawful Reagan/Gingrich/Bush neoconservatism must be crushed and replaced with authentic, genuine American conservatism. The kind that used to exist in this country and which served us well. But these Republicans cannot even bring themselves to admit that they are not conservatives.
” Jamvet, Who do you believe was a good conservative? Obviously you don’t like any repubs since Reagan, so how far back do you go? “
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
10:03 am
td — “Go watch today’s Morning Joe on MSNBC.”
Also known as the “Guess How Many Vodka & Tonics Mika Had Before Airtime” show.
td
January 10th, 2013
10:03 am
Just watching MSNBC this morning and the major theme on three shows now is about the lack of women diversity in the Obama administration. Yes the Dems is staying together. They will soon be eating their own young soon enough just like the Republicans are now.
Steve
January 10th, 2013
10:04 am
You conservatives kill me. You act as if Democrats are the reason we have a lot of debt, but historically, Republicans spend as much if not more, via starving government, trillion dollar wars and other nonsense. You’re a bunch of whiney babies.
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
10:04 am
barking frog:
Typo? I don’t think so. If the American people would honestly inform themselves they would understand what the dem party is all about. They want complete control over every single aspect of our lives….
Shar
January 10th, 2013
10:05 am
Fred @ 9:08: Yes. Exactly.
Republicans who make undermining and defeating the duly-elected President their number one priority are neither listening to the people nor putting the country first. Republicans who push through a law mandating a procedure – those despicable vaginal probes – that qualifies under international law as rape and who support a fatuous, drug-addled gasbag as he screams “slut!” at women who use birth control must look at those positions and accept that the moderate middle of America (and more importantly, the young voters) are going to see that as a “war on women”. Republicans who try last-minute legal skirmishes to disenfranchise targeted voter groups are going to call down accusations of racism on their party.
These efforts to force, push, insist, mandate, criminalize and bludgeon through policies only prove that they are so despised that they cannot survive public voting. The more the Republicans demand that Americans submit to their vision of reality, the more Americans they will drive off. And everyone loses.
Fred, you’re right. We need two parties. We need checks and balances. It is not a good idea to endlessly fund today’s social services with tomorrow’s money, and the Democrats are far too willing to do that. But the Republicans must step away from the absolutism of screeching idiots who make money by making them mad and afraid, and engage with the rest of the country.
The other half of your brain.
January 10th, 2013
10:07 am
Dirty Dawg
January 10th, 2013
9:57 am
If you haven’t been watching Oliver Stone’s Untold History of America, suggest you go to Showtime On Demand and catch up with the past 75 years or so. Spoiler Alert – you probably won’t like what you’ll see and hear, and if you do then I’m sorry for you…not that it matters or that you’ll care.
” Dirty, isn’t he the same guy that made a movie about all the people that shot Kennedy and then a few month’s ago was groping his wife in front of the cameras? ”
That’s the same nut, isn’t it?
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
10:07 am
Steve:
Wow maybe you should Google the enormous debt racked just during Oblama’s first term. He almost doubled it in 4 years….
JamVet
January 10th, 2013
10:08 am
Unfettered abortion, homosexual marriage, take guns away, higher taxes, cutting of the military to make us weaker, executive orders, taking GOD out of the public eye.
The other part of the equation that explains the hemorrhaging, hijacked GOP is the amazing dumbing down of their ranks. Basic GOP intellectual honesty has gone with the wind.
Nixon was, for all his faults, a brilliant man who thirsted for knowledge. He devoured books and then asked for more. He also surrounded himself with brilliant men – Kissinger comes to mind.
It seems he was the very last of a dying breed in the GOP.
In no time flat we ended up with the marginally intelligent Ronnie and then the dumbest president in modern American history – W.
Who are the great thinkers in this stumbling, bumbling GOP?
Joseph McCarthy! And the aforementioned Reagan!
It has become SO bad that the rank and file neocon absolutely distrusts/loathes academia and has absolutely no respect for science at all!
As evidenced every single day here…
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
10:08 am
TBS
See 9:57..
barking frog
January 10th, 2013
10:08 am
Christian Conservative
Typo? I don’t think so. If the American people would honestly inform themselves they would understand what the dem party is all about. They want complete control over every single aspect of our lives….
……………………………………………………………………
and so you actually meant to type surly instead of surely….
Aquagirl
January 10th, 2013
10:09 am
They want complete control over every single aspect of our lives….
Followed, of course, by a tattoo on your head or right hand.
Better reinforce the door on your Left-Behind bunker while you still can.
Stevie Ray
January 10th, 2013
10:09 am
liberal hack
January 10th, 2013
9:44 am
Couldn’t agree more. Can anyone tell me exactly where and how our national security would be jeopardized by cutting defense budget by 25%?
DIRTYDAWG
I watched Oliver Stones last two episodes. It’ not really the History of Us, it’s the history of why the GOP should be disbanded. One thing I alway bear in mind with history scribes…”Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.” This is why IMO, history keeps getting re-written…
Brosephus™
January 10th, 2013
10:12 am
JReb: both of those executive orders address imports. If Barry does that and only that, it will probably pass muster.
The pessimist in me says that anything Obama does will bring forth the mouth foaming from the far Right. Hell, he didn’t do a single thing in regards to guns in his first term, and there was the “gonna take our gunz!!” paranoia then. Forgive me as I say that I don’t buy that line there. None of you righties would approve of anything Obama does other than him resigning.
td
January 10th, 2013
10:12 am
The last time Dems messed with peoples gun rights in this country (1993) they lost 54 seats in the HOR’s the next election cycle.
Stevie Ray
January 10th, 2013
10:13 am
Shar
January 10th, 2013
10:05 am
Seems to me the only difference between the GOP’s stated objective to get rid of a sitting DEM president from prior DEM agenda’s, is that the GOP went public as opposed to prior behind the scenes understanding about policitcal control…they both do it…isn’t that what its all about?
East Lake Ira
January 10th, 2013
10:14 am
Keep going folks.
We all win when the cons here get to bitter level 10. So far they’ve only hit level 6 or so.
Once they fail with the debt limit tantrum and we take away their high capacity magazines and assault weapons – aka their peni – they’ll hit 9. Then we can move in with forced abortions and man-dog marriages to get over the final hump.
It’ll be fun.
Granny Godzilla
January 10th, 2013
10:14 am
Adam:
File under “Things you have to say to get into the mental health problem database”
.
.
.
.
That may just replace
Not intended to be a factual statement, There’s your sign and Piffle as my favorite snappy retort.
May I use it?
Wilbur
January 10th, 2013
10:14 am
The democrats have found away to gain power by promising people more stuff for free. Now they have to find a way to pay for their excess. OF COURSE they will raise taxes but increasing taxes will depress the economy and create even more of the misery we presently enjoy.
The dems will respond by blaming “the rich” some more and demand that they give their wealth to “the people” through confiscatory taxes. None of it works or ever has. They might get a couple of good years but misery and serfdom on on their way.
More and more power will flow to the few in charge. The people at the bottom are too dumb and too distracted to know that they have traded for misery and despair.
Simple Truths
January 10th, 2013
10:15 am
It is what it is. This is part of the process when a party “wanders in the desert” after a defeat.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 10th, 2013
10:16 am
td — “The last time Dems messed with peoples gun rights in this country (1993) they lost 54 seats in the HOR’s the next election cycle.”
This time, given all the recent shootings, I think the GOP is the party that stands to lose seats over the issue.
If y’all are perceived as blocking common-sense regulations and as unreasonable in the public debate, it won’t be Dems that lose House seats.
Christian Conservative
January 10th, 2013
10:16 am
barking frog:
I didn’t realize I was being graded here…..
Stevie Ray
January 10th, 2013
10:16 am
BRO,
Seems to me the practicality of taking peoples guns away or otherwise keeping what’s out there now from being available in the future if a non-started. Guns aren’t going to go away no matter what BO or Gov Cuomo spew from their respective pulpits.
Armed guards or mental health tactics won’t work. No such thing as high velocity culture change..