In upstate New York, gunman targets, kills firefighters
For families of at least two firefighters in upstate New York, Christmas 2012 took a dark, ugly turn this morning.
WEBSTER, N.Y. (AP) — The police chief in Webster, N.Y., says that four firefighters were shot while responding to a blaze in the town near Rochester and that two are dead.
Chief Gerald Pickering says “one or more shooters” fired at the firefighters Monday morning. Officials say they had arrived at the scene of the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore around 6 a.m.
It’s not the kind of story that you want to be posting on Christmas Eve. But this is the reality in which we live, and which — we are told by some — we are helpless to improve upon.
I do not accept that.
– Jay Bookman
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186 comments Add your comment
Jackie
December 24th, 2012
2:16 pm
One would think the so-called conservatives would understand this concept and realize they do not have the only answer and their answer(s) may have little or no merit.
Joseph
December 24th, 2012
2:17 pm
Outlaw guns, outlaw the wheel, outlaw all drugs- prescription or otherwise, …..
Simple minds, simple thoughts
Lord Help Us
December 24th, 2012
2:18 pm
‘Simple minds, simple thoughts’
Except nobody has endorsed doing any of those things…
Simply stupid…
stands for decibels
December 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
There is no reasoning with gun nuts. The craziest need to be shamed and isolated; unless and until this happens, we will never make any significant progress in combatting America’s shameful murder rate and propensity for gun violence.
Of course you can reason with most gun owners. The trick is telling them apart from the nuts.
Mick
December 24th, 2012
2:20 pm
So this is christmas and what have you done?
Jay, without a doubt, this has been a most depressing stretch for the holiday. What are you gonna do?
It’s very frustrating, there seems to be a competition on how low we can we go.
You know all those guns that have been sold in the past 4 years because of fear of the president?
No, we don’t need to fear the president – it’s us – 300 million weapons out there?
The civilized world can sit back and watch us unravel.
I refuse to play along.
The answer is peace.
Christmas brings us the prince of peace.
Talk about peace, spread peace, peace is strength, the real kind of strength
Give it to everyone you meet and greet, there’s your miracles!
Merry Christmas to all
From Tahoe, america the beautiful, never doubt that!!!
stands for decibels
December 24th, 2012
2:21 pm
and for the record, it’s worth noting that there are even more important issues to consider/cope with than that of gun violence.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2012/12/weve-probably-lost-few-elves-already.html
we can’t put this off forever. well, we can, but we’ll be well and truly f-cked if we do.
/drive-by
Victor Midtown
December 24th, 2012
2:22 pm
Outlaw assault weapons and magazines. Enforce EXISTING handgun laws. Punish all outlaws – without excuse or exception. As long as society allows our courts to release gun using criminals to roam the streets, our citizens will not rely on the government to keep them safe in their homes and in the street.
indigo
December 24th, 2012
2:24 pm
td – 12:46
Politicians in which Party are calling for more gun control?
Politicians in which Party are saying gun control won’t work?
Joseph
December 24th, 2012
2:25 pm
Lordy Help You- you may have missed the analogy- let me be more clear to the slow of thought- more folks die from cars and drugs than guns-
moonbat betty
December 24th, 2012
2:26 pm
Mick – Awesome- a white Christmas in Tahoe?
sfd,
I’m afraid old St.Nick may boycott the U.S. this year.
Lord Help Us
December 24th, 2012
2:27 pm
‘more folks die from cars and drugs than guns-’
I am sure that is comforting to the parents of the children in Newtown that were shot multiple times with an assault rifle…
LB
December 24th, 2012
2:28 pm
As someone who literally lived houses away from the tragedy, I am deeply saddened by this news. Unfortunately, we will soon be hearing about something that the shooter was “suffering” from, as if it could excuse the evil away. How about personal responsibility, in addition to gun regulation? We live in a world where kids are not prepared for real life. Everyone wins. If the kid doesn’t do well in school, it’s the teacher’s fault. Can’t behave in class? Pop a pill. Self-control and learning that the real world is a very hard place can go a long way. Not everyone can get a trophy for playing. Don’t want to learn, work hard, and take a few (or more) lumps or bruises working your way to success? Life isn’t going to hand it to you. Let’s get real about the conversation.
Recon 0311 2533
December 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
No details have emerged and yet here on Christmas Eve we see a brief commentary politicizing an unfortunate loss of life and blaming Wayne LaPierre. BTW…we’ve lost 8 at last count in traffic accidents here in Georgia this Holiday Season. Merry Christmas to all of you who celebrate Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
indigo
December 24th, 2012
2:30 pm
Joseph – 2:25
Cars are needed for transportation. Do you want to go back to the horse and buggy?
Drugs are needed for sickness and immunization. Do you want to go back to the days of polio, whooping cough, TB, ect. etc. etc.
Guns are made for KILLING. Only police and the military should have them.
Joseph
December 24th, 2012
2:31 pm
I am sure that is comforting to the parents of the children in Newtown that were shot multiple times with an assault rifle…
Lordy Help You-I am sure you are comforting to the 1000’s who will lose their lives this New Year’s week in car wrecks and over dosing
Joseph
December 24th, 2012
2:35 pm
Indigo- why not? solve global warming as well
Also- use your brain a little here. So some drugs are good? Some transportation is good?
We really should outlaw extremists from both sides- simple minds seek simple solutions. The far left- adjust the laws and Constitution to fit your need- far right- if you don’t like it- bomb it. What a FUM.
Mama Says
December 24th, 2012
2:37 pm
As I have stated before, we need to have better background checks prior to guns being sold. Better enforcement of current laws and hard penalties for those who fail to secure the gun that they legally own. All this arguing back and forth is pointless.
Those on the more liberal side wish to re write U.S. history when it comes to gun use in this country and those on my side want to protect the right to have a gun at any costs.
In truth this country was founded because of guns and weapons. We would have never beaten the kings army without them. We would have never controlled the west without them and we certainly would never have won two world wars without them. Guns are as big a part of our history as apple pie. The question is this. Is it really a constitutional right ?
Now here is the real dangerous aspect of that argument. Cons say yes that’s its an undeniable part of the constitution. Libs say no, it’s only militias that can be armed.
Well I ask you libs, if this becomes a constitutional question will you be happy with only the militia being armed ? As far as I know we have neo militias all over the country. There are the skin heads, survivalist, black supremacy groups, the KKK. What is a militia ? In the 1770’s a militia was basically a group of farmers gathered together to protect the colonies.
The restriction on magazine capacity is a false argument also. If those who are against guns knew how fast you can exchange magazines or clips it really would not comfort you any that the bad guy only has 15 rounds in one clip.
As a con I agree that we have to do something. as a cop i know stats say that I will be more likely to die in an ambush then you. However it is unrealistic to argue the argument we are having. It is true that we already have 50 laws against gun loons and it is true we have very lax enforcement when they are broken. I my view I will be a lot safer in my job and the citizens will be a lot safer in their lives if we stop falling for the politician who benefits off of this ‘ what do we do attitude’. We enable our leaders to avoid the real issue, which is why are the current laws not enforced ? And why do we need to debate tougher mental health requirements prior to the nut getting the gun ? Just stop it and let those who will take it to the courts.
The entire argument could be solved tomorrow. We have allowed our politicians to cloud and confuse what would otherwise be a quick response by any sane person, con or lib.
They are treating this like they did the texting ban. Did you know that prior to banning texting and driving that there was already a law against distracted driving ? Rather than enforcing the current laws our politicians are shutting us up by writing duplicate laws and telling us they did something and we fall for it evey time.
We will also have to face some sad music in this pursuit. The guns used in most of these incidents were obtained through legal means and aside from an outright ban on gun sales that will continue to e the case. We really are limited in protecting ourselves from the actions of the mentally insane. We don’t Know what they are thinking and we can only react afterwards.
I want to know why we don’t enforce current laws ! It’s really a simple issue.
TM
December 24th, 2012
2:43 pm
Sounds like we need to ban cars:
“Ten people have died so far in holiday weekend wrecks across the state, the Georgia State Patrol reported Monday.
The Christmas holiday counting period began at 6 p.m. Friday and ends at midnight Tuesday.”
Victor Midtown
December 24th, 2012
2:46 pm
The ambush killer is a 62 year old psycho who served 17 years for beating his grandmother to death with a freaking hammer. Find out how and where he acquired the guns. The heirs of the dead should sue the sellers (legal or otherwise) for every cent they have.
Too many nuts in this world and not enough people willing to stand up to the main streamers.
Rafe Hollister
December 24th, 2012
2:48 pm
Guns are made for KILLING. Only police and the military should have them.
Sounds like Burma, Ethiopia, or Egypt. An excellent recipe for tyranny. Of course, you would also make a law that the police and military have to be “nice people”, which makes it OK.
I’m glad that our much smarter founding fathers wrote the Constitution, instead of some of you.
Victor Midtown
December 24th, 2012
2:50 pm
Don’t trivialize the legitimate debate with stupid stuff. When people die in a car wreck, it is an ACCIDENT. People also ACCIDENTALLY shoot themselves and others. We are talking about MURDER. To resist the gun confiscators lobby, you have to argue like an adult.
moonbat betty
December 24th, 2012
2:50 pm
“The ambush killer is a 62 year old psycho who served 17 years for beating his grandmother to death with a freaking hammer.”
More like they should sue the state that let this psycho out of prison!!
Victor Midtown
December 24th, 2012
2:55 pm
valid point, one that Gov Cuomo will have to answer. But, obviously, this man was not supposed to have access to a gun (or a hammer, presumably). Somehow, he acquired one. What I am saying is – there are laws on the books now. Enforce them. Every wants a new law. No one wants to enforce them.
godless heathen - Christmas Declared War on Me
December 24th, 2012
2:57 pm
Guns are made for KILLING. Only police and the military should have them.
If noone else has guns, why would the police need guns?
————————-
WEBSTER, N.Y. —
Police in New York state say a man who ambushed firefighters had served 17 years for manslaughter in the death of his grandmother.
Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering says 62-year-old William Spengler was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot to the head.
Police say he set fire to a car and house to lure firefighters to his house on the shore of Lake Ontario early Monday.
When firefighters arrived, he opened fire, probably with a rifle. Two firefighters died at the scene and two others were hospitalized. A fifth first responder was injured.
I’m sure the convicted felon violated numerous existing gun laws. But that doesn’t stop the gun grabbers from clamoring for more. Geesh.
Recon 0311 2533
December 24th, 2012
2:59 pm
Unfortunately, we have most of these tragic events occur in blue states with strict gun control laws.
godless heathen - Christmas Declared War on Me
December 24th, 2012
3:00 pm
Unfortunately, we have most of these tragic events occur in blue states with strict gun control laws.
It’s the anti-gun culture.
Mama Says
December 24th, 2012
3:02 pm
There’s the example. Why would we allow any proven murderer to ever go free ?
Don’t we know how little they value life ?
This goes for gang bangers, biker groups, spousal murders. All of them we should not let crazy people roam the streets while we engage in any arguments about taking any freedoms.
I personally don’t honk the constitution gives us the right to have guns but shouldn’t we take care of the known issues before we try the other stuff.
The crazy people and violent people should not be on the streets !
When we take those folks and lock them up then we can get a real look at gun violence. If it stays high, which I don’t think it could, then we can start taking stuff from law abiding people.
getalife
December 24th, 2012
3:06 pm
Lots of deflecterbation going on.
I wish you cons would not do that in public.
Mick
December 24th, 2012
3:08 pm
moonbat
Sunny and clear but plenty of snow on the ground…have a great xmas
recon@2:59
Blue states, red states? How’s about the united states? Easily the silliest comment of the day…
moonbat betty
December 24th, 2012
3:11 pm
“Sunny and clear but plenty of snow on the ground…have a great xmas”
Excellent, Mick, what a great place to enjoy the holidays. Enjoy and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Recon 0311 2533
December 24th, 2012
3:15 pm
Blue states, red states? How’s about the united states? Easily the silliest comment of the day…
I didn’t coin the labels. Mine may be the silliest, however, yours might be among the most ignorant since it ignores facts. mick have Merry Christmas.
elephant in the room armed to the teeth
December 24th, 2012
3:15 pm
http://www.alternet.org/comments/gender/what-it-about-men-theyre-committing-these-horrible-massacres#disqus_thread
getalife
December 24th, 2012
3:15 pm
75 degrees down here and had to call Jesus to cut the grass.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
3:16 pm
Thank you Mama, great post.
What is the ONLY organization that has regular firearm safety classes? The hated NRA
What is the only organization that has a youth program for gun safety? The hated NRA
What is the only organization that has organized shooting competitions to stress competency and shooters safety? The hated NRA.
So apparently Jay if someone in your house has been treated for depression….bipolar disorder….PMS ….no one should be allowed to possess a firearm?
Are you going to ask the ACLU to allow you to open all mental health treatment records so you can decide just who can be trusted to possess a firearm?
Are you going to be the one who decides who has demonstrated proper competency to be allowed to own a firearm? Will my 60+years of hunting and shooting without an accident count? How about my shooting expert consistently during my military service count? How about my being a member of the 108th Division competition pistol team? A Vietnam War Military Policeman?
Are you going to decide if I am too old to own a firearm?
Or will it just be because I am a conservative and NRA member that you want to confiscate my firearms?
Yea right!
Recon 0311 2533
December 24th, 2012
3:17 pm
“It’s the anti-gun culture.”
Godless Heathen, that’s accomplished nothing.
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
December 24th, 2012
3:18 pm
More Holiday cheer brought to you by the wonderful NRA lobby.. Merry Christmas ….Lapierre
Recon 0311 2533
December 24th, 2012
3:19 pm
Merry Christmas Oldguy,
Glad you made it back.
Recon 0311 2533
December 24th, 2012
3:21 pm
Godless Heathen,
That didn’t read right on my last. Meant the anti-gun lobby has accomplished nothing.
TaxPayer
December 24th, 2012
3:24 pm
I think we can work out a level of taxation on gunowners, guns and bullets that is needed in order to pay for the NRA-sanctioned solutions.
Victor Midtown
December 24th, 2012
3:35 pm
I live in town. I don’t own a gun. But when the owner of a mini-mart store in Midtown was shot dead, Mr. Bookman said nothing. When a man was found shot dead at Ford Factory Square, ditto. A man killed at Underground. Silence. The AJC reports that three armed robberies have already occurred on the new BeltLine. Silence. If we heard anything, it would be something like the need to look at the underlying roots of crime, or some such pablum.
I support the ban on assault rifles and 30 round magazines. Most Americans now do. But the greatest risk we face is looking close up at a gun being held by some nervous thug. Until the government can assure Americans that gun users will be punished to the MAXIMUM, Americans will be armed. It is our right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
3:35 pm
Thanks Recon I rarely visit the site these days, the effort to argue logic with Jay’s Jim Jones-like true believers tires me out; I have more important things to do like watch the grass grow or go out to slaughter helpless woodlands animals.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 24th, 2012
3:41 pm
Well, I see this guy that killed the fire fighters up in NY shot hisself to death. Same thing happened with the guy that killed all the kids in the schools. We need the Death Penalty for people that kill theirselfs to keep us from punishing them. It just ruins a good argument we could use to let everybody keep their guns. How you going to punish to the limits of the law all the people that misuse guns if they keep shooting theirselfs? I bet alot of rednecks reading about what this guy done to get away with murder are real disgusted right now.
Anyhow, have a Merry Christmas everybody. I reckon I don’t need to point out this ain’t the best time to give your kid his first gun.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
3:49 pm
Why not redneck, I gave each of my daughters a .22 auto target pistol when they turned 13 and taught each how to shoot (And proper safety also). As of yet neither has gone on a shooting rampage (although I have noticed that their boyfriends/significant others seem to be more polite than those of their friends!). Hee Hee
curious
December 24th, 2012
3:49 pm
Real Scootter
“I don’t have a link but would be willing to bet none of these tragedys were commited by NRA members.”
Eureka!
The solution is to require all gun owners/buyers to belong to the NRA.
A win-win for the unarmed/defenseless and the NRA.
keith
December 24th, 2012
3:50 pm
I love these gun banners and how they react to criminal violence. They call it gun violence and call for bans on guns. If their goal is to reduce the number of guns in this country then they are certainly going about it the wrong way. Recently bookman and others have called for bans on AR15s, AK47s etc. And what has happened since they did that? Go try to find one of those guns for sale at your local gun store. Sold out. About the only place to find them now is gun auction sites. And thanks to the gun banners the prices have sky rocketed. But thats not stopping the masses from buying them. So bookman, if your goal was to reduce the number of guns sold in this country, you have failed miserably. In fact you have caused a gun buying spree unlike any this country has ever seen.
vuduchld
December 24th, 2012
3:54 pm
Anothrer “law abiding citizen” excerising his 2nd amendment constitutional right. All you gun nuts and wackos can’t get enough of this mayhem. Now go find out what gun and ammo this “citizen” used so you maggots can go out and pick clean the gun store racks like the vultures you are
barking frog
December 24th, 2012
3:56 pm
The 2nd amendment restricts the government from infringing a right
that existed before the 2nd amendment was written and before the
Constitution was written. The English privilege to keep and bear arms
that once was the King’s to confer had already become commonplace
and was used to hunt for food. This was so in the colonies and existed
before the Declaration of Independence. Any total ban would ultimately
have to be voluntary. Infringement and its limitations can best be executed
by protection of the weapon itself from theft. Fingerprint locks are an easy fix.
Databases have privacy issues that may be solved. Public building security is
well under way and needs to be stepped up at schools. Paranoia on either side
should not be allowed to hinder reasonable solutions.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
3:58 pm
Oy vey….so how long is the waiting period before one can discuss a shooting with any substance other than “oh lordy, them poor folk” or some nonsense. Gun violence has been politicized for years by the NRA… we will no longer be silenced by the gun nuts.
getalife
December 24th, 2012
3:59 pm
I would listen to the Police on this issue instead of a con with zero credibility.
Krugman wrote a good piece on credibility and he said we should stop listening to people that have been dead wrong for a decade.
He stole that me.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
4:05 pm
Actually vuduchld,
If you can detox enough to actually read the facts the guy was a felon who killed previously (so he was a double criminal) who should never have been released from prison!
Merry Christmas to you too!
getalife
December 24th, 2012
4:08 pm
I know you cons are scared to death. You treated minorities like crap and you are scared of them now. I tried to tell you to treat all Americans with respect and you can start with our President.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
4:08 pm
You think Krugman has credibility?!?
swear off the coolade for new years getalife.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
4:11 pm
We are scared Getalife because we know what your president is capable of. He has already promised the Russians major changes now that he doesn’t have to run again.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
4:13 pm
And welcome to the United Socialist States of America!
Fred ™
December 24th, 2012
4:14 pm
Merry Christmas sheet
indigo
December 24th, 2012
4:25 pm
Rafe – 2:48
LOOK OUT!!!
The big bad guvement is out to get you.
getalife
December 24th, 2012
4:34 pm
oldguy,
Boo!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
4:41 pm
Oh I see….he was a convicted killer and therefore could not have gotten a gun legally. See you can’t stop gun violence with laws.
But in CT, the killer had the guns legally. See you can’t stop gun violence with laws.
Welcome to the Catch-22
keith
December 24th, 2012
4:42 pm
What bookman left out of his article is that the gunman was convicted of murdering his grandmother, got out on parole and was breaking the law by having the gun. So if his gun laws worked the firefighters would still be alive today. And if the politicians had listened to the NRA years ago the gunman would still be in prison for murdering his grandmother. But liberals coddle criminals allowing them to get out and murder even after previous convictions for murder.
keith
December 24th, 2012
4:45 pm
We do not know if the killer in CT had his guns legally or not. We do know that if bookmans favorite group, the ACLU, not defeated the mental health bill then the odds are the killer would have been in treatment instead of killing kids in a school.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
4:56 pm
Ahhh, so now the ACLU is to blame.
And mental health… but never ever ever blame the accessibility to guns, the loopholes to background checks, and so on.
You’re going to need a new playbook. We’ve seen all these before.
Doggone/GA
December 24th, 2012
5:08 pm
“You’re going to need a new playbook”
New!? You mean change something? Heaven forbid!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
5:20 pm
Well dang it Doggone, you’re the problem! You dang lawyers protecting constitutional rights and making laws. There is only one right that is important above all….the 2d amendment.
keith
December 24th, 2012
5:24 pm
yes, liberals and the ACLU have blood on their hands. They blocked laws that could prevent this. They allow criminals back out on the streets. Time to get tough on murderers and stop allowing bleeding heart liberals to set these thugs free.
keith
December 24th, 2012
5:27 pm
Liberals are misinformed. The children in Newtown were not murdered by an assault weapon. They were murdered by a criminal.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 24th, 2012
5:31 pm
Recently bookman and others have called for bans on AR15s, AK47s etc.
Jay, specifically called for a ban?
You can substantiate this, right?
Doggone/GA
December 24th, 2012
5:31 pm
Keep Up…Nah, not today. Yesterday and today were days off and I went looking for a waterfall yesterday, and spent most of today updating my blog. As of yesterday, I’ve now been to 465 waterfalls!
http://doggonega.blogspot.com/
theintelligentdesigner
December 24th, 2012
5:32 pm
I searched 6 pages in Google for firefighters shot in the United Kingdom in 2011. None. How many firefighters are or were shot on duty anywhere else in the world? I can’t find any. Why? Wrong question. Where is all that matters. This kind of event happens in the US, and it happens because guns are easy to buy, plentiful, and unregulated. There are people in anyplace that want to do these things, and sometimes they do. But here? Weekly, make that daily, people are shot to death. Make the manufacture and sale of automatic weapons and handguns illegal, tightly regulate and license each and every existing weapon, and insist on liability insurance for everyone who owns one. In countries having these kinds of humane and honorable restrictions, there are still gun deaths, but because zero enforcement is impossible, does not mean something shouldn’t be down. America should be in the lead on the issue, not issuing lead to any clown that gets a kick out of pointing a handgun and laughing, bangbang. Thanks Mr. Bookman for making sense.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
5:35 pm
Congrats Doggone. I recently ran across my Hiking Trails of N GA handbook. I need to hike a few trails myself soon.
Doggone/GA
December 24th, 2012
5:38 pm
Keep Up – thanks. If you need a goal, a waterfall makes a good one!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
5:40 pm
Ahhh, the silly: guns don’t kill people, criminals do…..
Or to accurately state: Criminals with guns kill people.
Criminal drunks driving cars kill people too….so we ban drunk driving and look, the numbers of people killed by drunk driving has been reduced.
Doggone/GA
December 24th, 2012
5:42 pm
Christmas sheets
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 24th, 2012
5:45 pm
I usually look for a waterfall or a mountain top. I am thinking of making more hiking effort in 2013. My favorite waterfall to date: Iguazu Falls, Argentina. But if I have to stay in GA, I enjoyed Cloudland Canyon (waterfalls and great views).
mad as hell
December 24th, 2012
8:18 pm
Ever since the absurd Heller decision by five conservative and activist judges I have been posting how the NRA and sellers of illegal guns here in Georgia now control the democratic process and an absurd interpretation of gun ownership as a fundamental personal right. Every day the results of this misguided policy become clearer. Gun sales in Georgia are up after every mass shooting. Georgia is one of the top exporters of guns used in crimes (based on 2007 ATF report before the NRA muzzled the ATF)
When are Americans going to rise up and say enough?
How about if the NRA provide the armed vounteer firefighters we now need?
“a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state”- nonsense by the framers according to SCOTUS and Antonin Scalia.
How secure do all volunteer firefighters feel tonight?
Did the shooter get his gun through an illegal sale fostered by the NRA?
Merry Christmas to the sane people who do not worship guns and the NRA.
willie lynch
December 24th, 2012
8:54 pm
5% of the worlds population owning 50% of the guns? There’s your madness.
td
December 24th, 2012
9:26 pm
mad as hell
December 24th, 2012
8:18 pm
Would it surprise you that the Heller decision was based on the actual words of our founders? Why do you actual think the founders wrote the 2nd Amendment? Can you actually tell us what a Militia was in the days of our founders?
I would stop being “Mad as Hell” and start becoming educated. It makes life a whole lot easier.
oldguy
December 24th, 2012
10:00 pm
Your heroes home city, with the toughest gun laws in the country…
How’s that working out?
Over 500 murders this year.
Read em all and their ages
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ara-YVofdq9jdHBlal9OaGhWUDFsbkNFbkpraV9tS3c&output=html
mad as hell
December 25th, 2012
1:08 am
td – I have read the entire Heller decision at least five times. It is judicial activism at its worst. There are many state constitutions that tied the right to bear arms to being qualified to be a member of a militia and nothing more. Yet Scalia relies on other state constitutions that did not tie the right to militia membership. Since when do state constitutions determine the meaning of the US Constitution?
And why did no courts in over 200 years determine that gun ownership was a fundamental personal right?Dumb judges????
And a militia is a state creation for the “security of a free state” How did that become a personal right?
This decision is no different than Bush v. Gore where Scalia found Bush’s civil rights were violated.
Is that why the 14th amendment was written- to protect presidential candidates??. More judicial activism.
fair and balanced
December 25th, 2012
8:55 am
old guy at 10 p.m.- Does it bother you at all that a significant number of those guns used for killings in Chicago came from Southern States like Georgia that have unlimited gun sales without registration of the guns and they go right into the hands of criminals???. What are you going to do about that- tighten up Georgia’s registration and bulk sales laws or buy more guns and ammo? You can stop the carnage in Chicago right here in Georgia. Of course Wayne Lapierre’s folks won’t make as much money if Georgia tightens up its gun sales laws and won’t line the pockets of Georgia Legislators with gifts and donations so they may not have as merry a Christmas next year.
MotherofTwo
December 25th, 2012
9:56 am
Jay
December 24th, 2012
12:35 pm
If our solution is to deny guns to crazy people, the place to start is with Wayne LaPierre.
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN………..AMEN
independent thinker
December 26th, 2012
9:31 am
I think not too.
NRA and politicians ignore the biggest safety issue which is reason why NRA exists- mass sales of guns and ammo mostly without background checks that result in proliferation of illegal guns used in crime or by the mentally unstable. NRA has emasculated the ATF in record keeping and tracing of these guns and made it impossible to hold the sellers civilly liable. As a result the legal owners flock to the gun shows and gun stores every time there is a mass shooting and talk of gun control. Result- massive profits in gun trafficking- the true goal of the NRA. The rest is just a distraction.
“A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state” – nonsense or a prerequisite to gun ownership?
Is registration and taxation of all guns according to calibre and type as well as in person background checks by a police officiial part of “well regulated” if the militia referred to is all armed citizens? Is it necessary for the security of the state’s citizens? or is gun ownership untouchable in any form as a sacred part of the Bill of Rights?
I think not.
Living With Open Eyes
December 26th, 2012
10:32 am
Hey ya’ll as long as the shooters had proper registration and permits for their guns they really didn’t do anything wrong, did they? We all know only criminals can lose their sanity and kill with guns.
Amazed
December 26th, 2012
3:03 pm
I’m amazed at how serious you guy are? Seriously? Blog venting?? Get out and do something about it. Ranting and raving on the screen and at others accomplishes what?
mad as hell
December 27th, 2012
7:58 am
The second amendment protects the right to order a pizza without interference:
“”"”A Tampa Bay area man accused of shooting and wounding another man during an argument at a pizza restaurant said his actions were justified under Florida’s “stand your ground” law.
St. Petersburg police say 52-year-old Michael Jock was waiting in line at a Little Caesars on Sunday when another customer, 49-year-old Randall White, began complaining about the slow service. The men exchanged words, which turned into a shoving match.
The Tampa Bay Times reports that Jock pulled a revolver and shot White in the lower torso. The two struggled and White was shot a second time.
Jock, who has a concealed weapons permit, told officers he was justified under Florida’s “stand your ground” law, which allows people to use deadly force if they believe their lives are in danger.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/20/man-shot-during-pizza-restaurant-argument/#ixzz2GFuOVKYz
Consider the source.How darethat Brit on CNN criticize our second amendment rights! That’s what the Declaration of Independence was all about. Owning an assault weapon is the pursuit of happiness.
Lexi
December 27th, 2012
6:55 pm
So, There have been more than 400 murders by handguns in Chicago this year, and that is the fault of southern gun sellers? What evidence that the guns came into the hands of the killers in that fashion?
Anyone heard of Fast and Furious? Our dear leader started his reign by claiming that American sellers were responsible for murders by gun in Mexico, and had Hillary and others making the rounds with that message. Turns out the sellers were middlemen for Obama’s AFT and were intended to lay the ground for a push towards gun control. Might have worked if the guns we let walk we’re not used to kill an American border agent, and more recently a Mexican pop star.
Inconvenient fact is that guns in the hands of law abiding citizens reduce crime. How about incarcerating criminals and crazies, and not inviting illegals, who beget gang bangers, into this country?
independent thinker
December 28th, 2012
8:19 pm
Lex- you sure have been brainwashed by the NRA. Fast and furious was a program started by George Bush not Barack Obama. The NRA and its stooges in Congress have already emasculated completely the ATF. No director for over seven years due to GOP and NRA blockage. ATK no longer allowed to store records digitally to trace origins of guns used in crimes. All has to be done manually going through paper records. Last year they were allowed to trace records to crimes they found over 6,600 guns used in crimes tied to good old Georgia.