War on drunk driving a model for reducing gun violence

Chris Rock thinks bullets should cost Five Dollars each. That would solve it, he says.

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Other than a bolt action rifle or a shotgun, possession of any other gun should be at

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If I remember correctly, drunk driving became more culturally unacceptable. It was helped along by ad campaigns, etc., not by banning cars or charging $300/drink. I would be interested in hearing how we can do the same thing with weapons.

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Jay I agree with almost all of what you say but in a society where government is becoming more and more of an overlord, I do have concerns about government confiscation. We continually give up rights because they are “good” for us in general ( the right thing to do). In this step, your proposal sounds reasonable, but what about the next steps. At some point, after another tragedy, the step may be to round up all automatic rifles, and then all automatic pistols, and so on until all guns are in the hands of the state or in the hands of criminals. At the point in time, each of those “collections for our national good” will seem reasonable against the backdrop of the situation but each will tear away at a right that was clearly articulated by our founders. I don’t know what the answer is, and your analogy to drunk driving is somewhat flawwed as the laws targeted bad behavior (those that drank and drove) whereas doing this with guns targets anyone who exercises this right. By the way I haven’t owned a gun in over 50 years so I’m not a gun toting NRA member but I do have a severe distrust of our federal government. Rights given up are rarely won back and the right to bear arms in this country is not linked to hunting.

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Still talking about gun control….. Jeez, you people can’t chew bubble gum and walk at the same time… Good Grief.. The problem at Newton was a MENTAL HEALTH issue! NOT a GUN issue.. Are you really college educated Jay?

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Jay, Your RIGHT today.

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Registration needs to be seriously AMPED UP.

I have to renew my drivers license on a regular basis.
Gun permits should not be FOREVER.

The permit rolls need to be run against law enforcement
and mental health reporting systems. If the gun owners name pops up a match you yank his permit and yes,,,,confiscate his guns.

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Jay,

Just out of curiosity, how do we know his mom’s guns were not locked up. He could have found the keys or cut the locks off.

your analogy of gun locks and airbags/seatbelts is not valid. Gun locks (which i believe are a good idea) are not physically part of a gun like airbags and seatbelts are. also, airbags and seatbelts could be removed by the owner (not smart) in which the car would be very dangerous.

Also. how is banning so called “Assault Rifles” analogous to drunk driving and cars. There were no bans on either cars or alcohol.

I do think your ideas of hold gun owners civilly or criminally responsible for the misuse of their weapons is a very good idea.

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Granny, what is this FOREVER gun permit of which you speak. Is it available in GA?

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Van Jones

Do gun permits expire?

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None of the new regulations I’ve seen talk about guns that are already owned. The regulations are for new guns being bought. That will help some, but is not the total answer….and what is it with the “Government will take your guns” thing? You act as if the Government is the enemy. That is paranoia to the nth degree. If you think that the government is the problem, then take your guns and move somewhere that there is no government. See how well you’ll do then…

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Granny, the fact that you do not know but post as if you do speaks volumes.

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How can you “require” trigger locks? What possible mechanism could there be to make sure that Mrs. Lanza had kept a lock on the trigger of the gun kept at her home?

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Granny, yes and yes.

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I sincerely hope that those Federalie overseer wannabes try every one of Bookman’s suggestions.
.
Bring it!

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Granny – I’ll answer your question but you did not answer mine. I am of the legislation strips us of our freedoms belief, so my answer to you is, yes, because it costs us more in freedoms than it prevents. Now could you answer my question on what “mental report” you feel is probable cause in your world?

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Do gun permits expire?

5 yrs, in Jawja

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MadMax

I’ll answer yours.

It is not up to me or you.

Mental health professionals would establish that.

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CFBFan

December 19th, 2012
7:53 am

Reading plainly, when and where does your well regulated miltia train?

When do they do their class work?

Oh and what are their regulations?

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In fact, no single dramatic change produced the turnaround. It was achieved through a broad, concerted legal effort backed by a fundamental change in what was deemed culturally acceptable

Exactly.

Thanks for this column, Jay–it mirrors something I’d been meaning to post, about how we need to apply a holistic approach to the problem of gun violence.

For us rational people (and, alas, I’m going to have to probably exclude half of the people who’ll reply to this thread from that label)–instead of allowing ourselves to get bogged down in minutia and arguing over whether this or that measure will be the (pardon the expression) “magic bullet,” just press for everything that will apply sensible limits to arms proliferation while increasing accountability.

And if you’re told it can’t be done, just laugh and say such nonsense has never stopped civil progress before, why should it now?

(by the way, do people still say “holistic?” I was never a big fan of the word, but I think it applies perfectly, here.)

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Speaking of making sure gun owners have skin in the game. France just convicted a psychiatrist whose patient hacked an elderly man to death of manslaughter Tuesday. That sounds good so why not extend that to the news media as well. I can think of a few times where the media should be held libel for what it reported or printed. Richard Jewell is one good example.

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You remember Richard Jewell don’t you Jay.

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Yes, there is so much more that can be done and should be done. More regulation, stiffer penalties, assault weapons bans and cultural awareness can all make a difference. You so often hear the expression “if it saves only one life, it will be worth it.” Well, these steps will save lives, and anyone who opposes any or all of these solutions … well, how would they feel if the next victim was their child, spouse, parent, friend?

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War on drunk driving.
War on guns.
War on woman.
War of the classes.

We talk more about the faux wars in this country than the real wars we are actually in.

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They have us practically raped going through airport security for something less dangerous than what they bring to the equation, because the breach of security of 9/11 happen on their watch. We spend billions on Homeland Security to see it fail in New Orleans, yet no vibration for assault weapons just glib responses.

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Madmax

December 19th, 2012
8:05 am
Granny, so sort of like Obamacare – we’re not sure what to do so we’ll pass some vague legislation and then we’ll turn it over to a group of mental heatl experts – sort of like a parole board and we all know how successful those have been. I’m sorry, but that’s exactly why I oppose knee jerk calls for legislation because nobody can define what it is, just that the government should do something, even if it’s stupid. Jay at least put out some ideas, not all bad, that were more specific. You are just calling for action for actions sake.

.
.
.
You have a problem with science?
Especially the science of mental health?

I posit you need to be looked at.

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This will take a little time, but if you really want to educate yourself about gun shows and the law read this. pay attention to the sites it directs you to also. It is a good article.

http://www.commongunsense.com/2011/03/background-checks-and-gun-shows.html

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[...] War on drunk driving a model for reducing gun violence – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) 19 December 2012 on U.S. by admin [...]

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Jay,
Good luck with that. I’ll vote for it all. Until it happens,
do the children remain unprotected ?

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There’s an expression — What you focus on expands. So is it any wonder we have so much gun violence and murder and mayhem in our nation?

Look at our “entertainment.” Shows like Dateline NBC and 20/20 used to be about issues – now it’s the murder mystery du jour. Prime time TV dramas feature one gruesome crime scene after another. The video games our kids play are all about killing, killing and more killing. Not just movie villains, but movie heroes leave blood running in the street. It’s truly sick that we feed ourselves a steady diet of this blood and guts. Art imitates life? Life imitates art? Either way, we need to turn away from this culture of violence.

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Why don’t we do THAT too?

Like I told–godless heathen, I think it was?–I wouldn’t lose any sleep if that were to be imposed. (he was talking about a more pragmatic 70mph upper limit.)

There was a time when I would’ve flown my Libertarian freak flag and taken to the streets in protest, but not any more. I don’t give a sh-t if I don’t get to play NASCAR on the interstates again.

INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE by Thomas Sowell

yep, I’ve found that’s pretty much guaranteed when you read that assclown’s screechings.

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Jay, you neglected to mention one of the most important aspects of our long-standing effort to address the damage that can be done to others through the abuse of autos: liability insurance. In the case of drunk driving, the ‘weapon’ is the auto. We require all autos to be insured by the owners to include other operators, then we make efforts to ‘control’ the drivers. Where is our requirement for liability insurance on guns? Instead of repeating my lengthy argument for creation of stiff liability insurance for guns here, I refer you to the details I provided in your blog on Monday. The purchasers/users of the guns must be held to account through stiff liability insurance.

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Jay,

You have some good suggestions and, at least, they mostly are doable.

However, you’ll have to contend with some that have no ideas other than do nothing.

I agree mental health is a factor as some say, so do they propose a mental health evaluation BEFORE being allowed to purchase a firearm and a re-exam every 4-5 years in order to retain the weapon?

We have to have our eyes checked when getting a drivers license, maybe mental health should be checked also.

The NRA will love this. Every weapon will be registered.

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“And you ban altogether the sale or transfer of assault weapons. If someone wants to sell an existing assault weapon, they can sell only to the government.”

Banning the sale of what is now a legal product would be similar if not identical to the prohibition effort. In other words, that took a Constitutional Amendment to ban a “legal product”.

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…and if frogs had wings they wouldn’t womp their arse every time they jumped…

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I’m awaiting the NRA ‘Guns for Teachers’ program.

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Granny – no – but I have a problem with open ended laws that turn things over to “mental health” experts since many professionals disagree on the treatment and diagnosis and you are calling for a restriction on freedoms based on what a person might do based upon an inexact science. Mental health treatment is not an exact science – you can’t order up a blood alcohol test, blood pressure and get an answer, it is much more based on long term observations of individuals by trained professionals and still, professionals get it wrong and most would admit that they can’t define, by diagnosis alone, who poses a risk to society

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Banner123 wrote:
You could not be more wrong on gun shows. Dealers are required to accomplish background checks on ALL firearm sales at gun shows

Depends on your state. Only 17 states regulate guns shows.
Up here, (Wisc), you can buy just about anything at gun shows, no questions, bring ca$h.

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Why not “ABC” type stores for guns?

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Jay, says that the reduction in drunk driving fatalities was achieved without banning anything. It was a cultural change that contributed to the reduction. Then like a typical left winger proceeds to focus guns and banning certain guns and accessories, while completely ignoring cultural issues like violent movies, violent television programs, violent video games, gangster rap music and our mostly non-existent mental health treatment facilities. The left isn’t interested in solutions just more feel good legislation that really avoids the problem and solves nothing.

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MadMax

experts don’t agree?

2 to 1?

10 to 1?

100 to 1?

You seem to harbor some personal paranoia re: mental health care professionals. Possibly authority figures as well.

Got issues?

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JAY
what are the ANNUAL # deaths from MASS KILLINGS in the US per year?

what are the ANNUAL # of deaths of heart attacks, cancer, etc?

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Recon,

Good ideas. Ban the excessive violence in the media.

The restriction on tobacco advertising and limits on alcohol glamorization has helped.

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Why not “ABC” type stores for guns?

What on earth is that…?

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Tundra Dude:

Please look a the FBI site o gun checks. ALL gun sales by a Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) are required to accomplish a background check via the NICS. Individual-to-individual, NO. Dealer to Individual, YES.

It doesn’t matter what state you are in, this is a federal requirement.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

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I better go get another before the loons get their way.

yes, do go one. Before the “loons” require you to…

perhaps, pay a bit more to cover the actual cost of your bang-shootie-carry permit?

undergo some rudimentary training to prove you know WTF you’re *doing* with the bang-shootie?

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I also return to the solution of forbidding sales of certain ammunition. Private citizens do not require armor piercing bullets. Do make bullets more expensive, as if they were not already expensive. If you want to shoot, load your own. The discipline has a calming effect.

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Keith that mental health bill might have locked up half the Tea Party, the ACLU defends all sides, not just the gun nuts that want to be cowboys coming home from a cattle drive.

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“President Barack Obama will on Wednesday announce the first step on gun control following the Newtown school shootings: an interagency task force, led by Vice President Joe Biden, charged with guiding the administration’s continuing response.”

Biden?

Bwaahahahahahahaha

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Until this tragedy I did not know the definition of assault rifle.Not sure I know now.I was under the impression assault rifles were fully automatic or selective fire.

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So some of the posters here who think absolutely nothing should be done to curtail gun violence that might “infringe” on our Second Amendment rights are ready to throw the First Amendment out the window by banning excessive violence in the media?

That certainly was not the point of my 8:22 post. But I do think that we as a people should turn it all off. The producers, writers, directors, actors, programmers and the rest would not create such violent fare if there were not a market for it.

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“War on drunk driving a model for reducing gun violence”

That is how I am afraid the liberals will approach this. My friends and I were talking about this Monday and I am not surprised to see the DNC come up with it. Now let us look at the intention of removing drunk drivers to the reality of removing drinking period. That was the intention of MADD, Mothers against drunk driving but led to MAD, mothers against drinking. It went from bac from .015 to .005. Which is totally ridiculous and was one of the first SYMPATHY LAWS. ” Oh I lost my 16yrd old son by a drunk driver in downtown Atlanta Saturday night a 11pm.”, cried the mother. Why was her 16yr old son driving in Atlanta at 11pm? That was just insensitive to say but the truth. So we started fining everyone who had a beer or a glass of wine. Which is indirectly banning drinking and that is the reality of today’s advocates for gun control–total ban.

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I see the cons are still going on about how it was only 20 kids. And not a single one was one of their own.

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The big difference is that curtailing people’s ability to drink alcohol won’t affect their ability to protect their home from evil people or from an evil government. These are apples and oranges, Jay, and your playing games with issues that are far more important to our freedoms than you liberals appear to be capable of understanding.

Tell me again how many Kurds Saddam killed and why they didn’t fight back…

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Madmax

I was hoping for some heart from you…..

I’m a patriot and a follower of the fisherman.

You appear to be a gun nut.

TUNDRA DUDE

An “ABC” store, is an Alcoholic Beverage Commission store. In some states liquor is sold only through them.

Think “Firearm Commission Store” – one stop shopping for
guns and ammo and finger prints and DNA and backround checks.

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If a registered weapon is used in a crime but was not reported stolen, the person to whom it is registered can be held civilly or even criminally liable.

My nephew was arrested (while drunk) for assault on an officer. He had bruises and a broken nose. The officer had no injuries. The officer failed to show up for the hearing. My nephew’s case was dismissed. Two years later he was arrested at the airport for failure to appear in court. After bail costs, legal costs, and loss of pay from his job, it was determined the Fulton County court system was at fault. No apology nor reimbursement of costs. You might trust the incompetence of government…………I don’t. Wrongful arrests are way to common.

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in order to keep people safe the nazis confiscated guns. look who is advocating the same thing here. the left.

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Well jay that’s a nice little spill but gun crime has already been reduced many times over since the 90’s. Take a look at the stats before writing something you really don’t know anything about….

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“Armed guards can protect schoolchildren from armed nuts.”

I don’t own a gun or want to and I don’t drink and I don’t have all the answers.

I wonder what impression armed guards would leave on small children? Sometimes I think our solutions are more harmful than what we are trying to fix. When I was a kid I took the bus and it forced me to meet all the kids in my area at the bus stop. I think it was a healthy experience. After a couple of child abductions we have kids sitting in their parents car waiting for the bus or being driven to school. This bubble that has been created around kids is not all for the good.

…again, I don’t have all the answers or even most of them.

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and how many Jews had their guns taken away by the nazis just before they were exterminated.

Pretty much none, since the gun regs in place were passed long before Hitler became Chancellor.

Read. Learn.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

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Butch,

Do tell me what is the purpose of arguing that we need to look at the other statistics such as the number of people killed in auto accidents, etc., rather than focus efforts on reducing the con’s God-given right to unrestricted weapon ownership with no attached responsibilities. Seek help for yourself.

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Hey cons your patron saint started unnecessary wars in the last decade. You want protect the country go at it with your weapons and give our soldiers a break. Guess what we need to increase the protection of our embassies. Any voluteers from your ranks. Bunch of cowards.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-banning-assault-weapons-in-one-post/

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Sure Jay… Never let a tragedy go to waste… Especially if it means getting favorite lib laws passed that only takes away right’s of law abiding citizens….

http://nation.foxnews.com/sandy-hook-elementary-school-tragedy/2012/12/18/obama-vultures-raise-money-video-sandy-hook-elementary-speech

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Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses his or her firearm in self-defense. 1,145 times a day guns are used against robbers, 416 times each day women use their guns to protect themselves from rapists. Overall, a gun in the home is 216 times more likely to be used in self-defense than to cause the death of an innocent victim. What about accidents? The chance of a gun owner being involved in an accidental discharge is one in 200,000. You are 29 times more likely to die in an automobile accident.
So you say ban the guns and we will have utopia? Interesting Chicago has the most strict gun laws of any city in our nation and in turn has the most murders. To put it in perspective since 2001 we have lost 2000 soldiers in Afghanistan and in Chicago we have had over 5000 murders, which is closely follow by DC and Detroit, two other cities known for their strict gun laws.
To sum it up, the innocent, the law abiding, the hunter, the marksman American already follows the rules. The bad guys don’t.

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Granny, if no one answered before, yes, gun permits expired. I have been meaning to renew mine for the last year, it sits expired in my wallet

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protecting our emassies is the job of the state dept. are you admitting that the obama admin has failed in that responsibility? you are correct if you are.

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“One of the bigger deterrents to drunk driving is the significantly increased cost of auto insurance for those convicted.”

Or just the risk of going to jail and having your whole life ruined.

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Our Lady of Logan:
Think “Firearm Commission Store” – one stop shopping for
guns and ammo and finger prints and DNA and background checks.

Now yer messin’ with that free innerprize thingie…..
Notice the murder rate in Chicago is up over 20% from last year…??
Think the gangbangers will go to the official Gubmint store for their needs…?

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according to bookman kitchen knives should be banned in japan.

Only the ones designed for rapid-fire throwing and then banned only for people that fail to pass their training class on proper use of a kitchen knife.

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JAY – equally as bad as gun violence is DRUG violence – when is Jay going to call for control of DRUG violence?

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bookman says its bs so it must be. hahaha.

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keith
“protecting our emassies is the job of the state dept. are you admitting that the obama admin has failed in that responsibility? you are correct if you are.”

The article I read in the AJC implied Congress refused funding for extra security.

Do we know which Congressmen led the fight to deny funding?

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“and the US government in the role of Adolph Hitler”

You mean the good ole US government? The one that sold stuff to the sandanistas? The one that used the first nuclear bomb (for what I deem a justifiable purpose, but many disagree)? The one that now uses drones killing our own citizens without any trial or judicial review? The one that has broadly expanded surveillance capabilities since 9/11, also without judicial review. The one that engages in war constantly since the 1950’s without any Congressionally required declaration of war?

That one, that good ole US of A? I mean, I love this country and all, but a healthy skepticism is warranted.

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liberals say legalizing marijuana will cut down on crime and drug addiction

shouldn’t they be arguing for MORE GUNS to cut down on violence as well?

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I am not equating the American govt to the nazi govt. I am equation your vision for the future of this country to nazi Germany. you advovate the same solutions to problems the nazis implemented.should we expect a different result? we already have seen obama supporters calling for the arrest of his opposition.

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The “background ” check to buy a gun takes about 15mins. and is a joke , even if you lie on the application nothing ever happens and if you cant pass the fake background check you just go to the next gun show with cash and buy whatever you want .

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jay is yet to condemn obama for passing out guns to drug cartels.

Can you post a picture of that so I can hang it beside my picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam.

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williebkind

December 19th, 2012
8:51 am

…….Which is indirectly banning drinking and that is the reality of today’s advocates for gun control–total ban………
++++++++++++++++

Willie brings up THE core argument (and fear) of gun owners and advocates. And it’s a very legitimate concern.

Does anyone *need* an assault rifle? Nope. But they WANT one. Why? Because by dammit, they are fun to shoot. I disagree with a total ban as Jay outlines. In other Countries, Netherlands for one, they have mandatory military service at 18 AND they take their FULLY AUTOMATIC assault weapons home with them and keep them in their closets. They don’t have the problems we have so obviously it’s not the assault weapon’s fault.

Also Willie brings up the ridiculously LOW BAC level needed to be “drunk.” It was the first thing I thought of when I read the blog title even before I read the article. I feel there needs to be some sort of gun control. I’m not decided what or how much, but comparing it to the hysteria induced draconian DUI standards isn’t the way to go. When i was in Germany you were old enough to order a beer if you were old enough to talk. They don’t have the teen drinking problems we have. Why? Mindset. You make the drinking age so high and to the adolescent mind drinking is a sign of “being grown up.” They get no ”practice” at it. Same with fire arms. We were taught to use and respect firearms. Doesn’t happen anymore. How many schools do you know of that even firing teams? My daughter’s school does. Can you imagine the uproar of a public school doing it?

I had one militant yuppie ask me one time if there were “guns in your house.” I told her it was none of her damn business and she got all offended. She also refused my offer of a sign for her front yard that proudly proclaimed there were no guns in HER house…………

I think hysteria wins this one though. The bar was set when this jackass shot 5 year old kids. I still won’t read about it.

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I am not equating the American govt to the nazi govt.

Having read just a few of your recent screeds, I’m almost surprised.

The worst of you Republicans would have fit in very well with that German bunch…

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The NRA maintained a moment of silence out of respect for the deceased. To bad liberals did not share that respect. Instead they saw political opportunity and hope to exploit it by passing laws during the hysteria.

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CFBFan — “Jay, I am neither a legal scholar nor an NRA member. With a plain reading of the 2nd amendment how do any gun laws not violate the 2nd amendment, specifically the phrase, “shall not be infringed”?

You must be unaware of the First Amendment, which begins, “Congress shall make no law . . . ”

Whereupon Congress makes laws that impact on those very rights, and the SCOTUS finds that they can legally co-exist.

If free speech, assembly, worship and the like are subject to time, manner and place restrictions — which the SCOTUS has *repeatedly* found, then please explain to me why the Second Amendment rates more delicate treatment?

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Why has the GOP not blamed OBAMA for all of the mass shootings? Because they are the promoters of the Gun lobby agenda……A holes…

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The dem’s war on poverty hasn’t worked either. Should we ban the democratic party?

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There is not one liberal politician, civil rights “leader” or elected city official who gives a tinkers damn about how many black people are dying in Chicago. Not only do they not care, they have ignored these events for so long in a state entirely run by Democrats that one would think that it just part of black culture to slaughter themselves as fast as they can and kill off some of their best and brightest. But let 20 white school children die, shot by a white perp and the whole country goes bonkers.

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Many parts ofChicago, like it or not, have a deeply-rooted and violent culture. If one really tries to handle things, like was done in New York, then “police brutality” becomes the mantra. In reality, it has become a cluster….the second generation is being raised (actually, a misuse of the term) in this nightmare scenario and quite frankly, folks have become de-sensitized. Gang culture, crime, etc. is very common there..it is not in places like Newtown. Therefore, when an event such as this happens in Newtown, where the entire culture has largely a different set of values, then yes it will draw attention due to that one dynamic. Until leaders get serious about the violence AND CULTURE…NOT ALL GUN CULTURE but the general values (or lack thereof) held by many gangs, etc. in Chicago, the mess will continue. This is not to say that all chicogoans are like this. But the numbers blatantly suggest that (especially in the “troubled” areas) the entire modus-operendi (sp?) is totally different. Say what you want, but comparing Chicago and Newtown is not, and for the time being, will not (rightly or wrongly) be comparable. And no, it is not white vs. black…..it is sleepy town where this was not expected compared to cluster where it happens all the time. Maybe now, there will be some solutions for all.

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Morality?

December 19th, 2012
9:10 am

JAY – equally as bad as gun violence is DRUG violence – when is Jay going to call for control of DRUG violence?
+++++++++++++++++

Is this what passes for reasoned debate to you? Please tell me how your post added to the discussion in any meaningful way? I think you should apologize to everyone who wasted 5 seconds of their life to read that nonsense, and then go take a class at your local Junior College on critical thinking. Here let me give you a start on the basics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

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Chris Rock

Wrong, he said they should cost $5,000 each. THAT would solve it.

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“Call it like it is? OK. That is pure BS, as is the rest of that argument.”

Well Jay got me. He’s right Chicago is just plain heaven and no one and I mean no one gets killed up there. Just because it will take the average reader here about 15 seconds to look up my facts, Jay refutes it all by summing up his vast experience on the gun issue by stating BS. Well its hard to argue that so peace out kiddies.

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D.A.M.M., or Drunks Against Mad Mothers, disagrees with Jay.

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JAY,

Why not simply allow the purchase of bullets (outlaw those for “mass murder” types of guns) to be strictly controlled…so you can have your gun (along with your Hummer and Corvette) but it can only ejaculate when appropriate…???

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Call it like it is, Jay calls your post BS but he engages in BS for a living. In Jay’s left wing world Free Speech and Free Expression must be protected regardless of how ugly it is or what cultural ramifications might result. In Jay’s world it’s lets fix those cultural issues by depriving the greater majority of the masses their freedom of lawful possession. That way we won’t have to deprive those who’ve contributed to the cultural ramifications of their right to continue to do so.

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Trigger locks are useless to protect against home invasion. By the time you find the key to unlock that trigger, you most likely will have several holes in you courtesy of the guy that kicked down your door.

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Confiscate all the cars, the cars are killing people….

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In Georgia guns are easier to get than fireworks.

http://www.safekids.org/in-your-area/safety-laws/fireworks-95.html?gclid=CKCGkqTXprQCFQWnnQod32MAvw to get than fireworks.

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All of this is well and good, but there’s just one little fly in the ointment.

To even THINK about moving on any of it, you’ll have to first go through the fascistic little thug lobby known as the NRA, National Child Slaughter Association.

Not that it shouldn’t be tried though.

It may already be too late, the epidemic already being so far advanced, to stop additional slaughters, including the seemingly inevitable mega-slaughter where the killings reach into the hundreds. But something has to be done. And by beginning now, perhaps in the next decades the tide can begin to be turned on this.

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Like the fact of taxes going up, I believe the right and gun huggers are starting to see that things are about to change.

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I’m curious as to where this “the gubmint’s gonna take our guns” thing came from in the first place. Has their been gun confiscation in the past? What have been the most serious threats of gun confiscations historically?

Or is this one of those made-up issues designed to “gin up the base” or something?

Links appreciated – thanks in advance.

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Enter your comments here

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fireworks are dangerous

do you know how many people go to the emergency room each year because of them

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Theo

December 19th, 2012
9:23 am
The dem’s war on poverty hasn’t worked either. Should we ban the democratic party?

Theo do have a point he do. But we can’t ban the Dem party. How else would we be able to test really bad ideas to confirm that they really were bad ideas.

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Jay – thanks for writing some common sense. I do have further observation.

On Wilkow’s radio show yesterday, he referenced various news reports prior to the election that clearly showed the Left was planning to attempt to again ban semi-automatic rifles if Obama was reelected. This tragedy fell into their hands and boosts what was already their plot to strip citizens of Constitutional rights.

There are reports of news reel showing police removing a rifle from the trunk of the shooters car. If that is true, he either had two rifles or the semi-automatic tactical rifle that has the Left’s panties in a wad was never taken into the school. Hopefully this will be resolved soon.

Regardless of the shooter having the rifle in the school, there is a lot of misconception about the firearm. It is not automatic. It requires a trigger pull to fire each round. It does reload automatically so a trained person can fire many rounds in a short time. It looks military. I don’t agree with banning the high capacity magazines. Doing so would be smybolic only. To my knowledge, in most of these type cases the shooter stops firing when faced with being shot himself. Instead of carrying two or three 30 round magazines, he will carry as many 6 round as he can put in all pockets.

The rifles in question were banned once before with not enough affect to warrant extending the ban. Nothing has changed. This is political, not practical.

It’s not the rifle people. It’s the person.

And most infuriating is that some media who would be screaming to high heaven if the 1st amendment was under attack, doesn’t think twice in promoting tampering with the 2nd.

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Yes let Obama make laws about guns, he has a great record on his old district on the south side of Chicago. More murder by guns there every day than Iraq and Afghanistan combined…Yeah he has some great ideas… NOT…

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Recon 0311 2533

December 19th, 2012
9:30 am

Step right up and offer the means and process of collecting that data…it is a bunch of BS..

Whether or not the kid was mental is irrelevant to me, most mental illnesses can’t really be treated over the long haul successfully…at least having outcomes that eliminate the risk completely. Access to an arsenal of guns exlusively made for killing is the issue.

It’s very difficult to produce multiple kills in a very short time span without these useless guns modeled after military issue…

At the end, we all know we will get next to nothing from congress of meaning. NRA throws around too much dough….maybe the teachers can actually get some utitility out of their otherwise useless unions and provide leverage to push for real, meaningful legislation..

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Trigger locks are useless to protect against home invasion. By the time you find the key to unlock that trigger, you most likely will have several holes in you courtesy of the guy that kicked down your door.

The law would require the home invader to have a trigger lock too so it will come down to which of you has the biggest pair. Or maybe the smallest.

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@Willydoit,
I believe that you are probably right………..

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“But together, they have the potential to dramatically reduce the number of deaths caused by firearm misuse”

Right. Because we just want to reduce the number of deaths? So…..if 10 kids were killed in the Newtown shooting, everyone would be ok with that, right?

Or would we further imply restrictions on law abiding civilians.

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kayaker making too much sense @ 9:24.

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“There will have to be a reckoning with the underlying roots of the social tensions that permeate our life, above all the class war against working people by the corporate and government elites.”

What a load of spoiled crap.

The only thing preventing a person’s success in America is the will and fortitude of the individual. Stop crying, blogging, and get to work.

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I drove by a man this morning who had a shotgun mounted to the back of his truck.

The man merged into the turning lane to pull into a hardware store. Not a school.

As I passed him, the gun didn’t try to shoot me.

Newtown was the result of person going off the deep end. Not a gun springing to life on its own.

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Ivan: “Right. Because we just want to reduce the number of deaths? So…..if 10 kids were killed in the Newtown shooting, everyone would be ok with that, right?”

No. 10 slaughtered children is infinitely better than 20. And zero slaughtered children would be infinitely better than 10. Ad infinitum…

Such is the math of child slaughter, a mathematical formula which escapes the logic of the National Child Slaughter Association (NRA), which only knows one math: the math of the ever expanding profits of the firearm industry.

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“The only thing preventing a person’s success in America is the will and fortitude of the individual. Stop crying, blogging, and get to work.”

Yes. But its easier and more fun for occupation to bytch and whine about “the man” and his efforts to keep occupation chained up in his mom’s basement blogging all day every day.

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Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Obama is selling his GM shares for $27, less than half of the $70 per share that he paid (using taxpayer money).

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/aerospace/general-motors-to-buy-back-200m-government-shares/nTZsM/

According to the AJC, “The deal almost certainly means that the government will lose billions ”

But, the unions got him re-elected, and that’s all that matters. So what if the taxpayers get soaked.

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the racist liberals must be stopped
allowing all those deaths in chicago

excerpt from the usa today

Jack Levin, a sociology and criminology professor at Boston’s Northeastern University, says it’s troubling that Chicago’s murder count is rising while it falls in other major cities. In 2010, Los Angeles had 297 murders, the lowest since 1967. New York homicides have been declining since 1990, when a record 2,245 fell in the nation’s largest city.

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Funny how the staunchest defenders of 2nd Amendment rights, always say, “well if the victim was armed, then this would not have happened.” Folks. The shooters mother was armed. Yet, he shot her and 20 kids! SIX YEAR OLD KIDS FOR CHRISTS SAKE! And, as has been reported, she was of the same ilk as some on here..”the government is coming for my guns and I am going to be prepared for the anarchy!!!” Mentally unstable people do not need easy access to assault weapons!!!! Its sad that the mere MENTION of extending background checks, or mental health testing, makes them clutch tighter to their guns and scream “OBAMA IS A NAZI.” And as one poster put it, easy to cling to your guns when one of the 20 wasnt your kid.

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“So CFBF, are you saying that machine guns should be legal? Tanks? Bombs? That would seem to be the case under your apparent interpretation, in which no restrictions or regulations can be tolerated because the right “shall not be infringed.”

Tell ya what, Jay. Let’s come up with a sound way of protecting the kids in school from psychotics, and then we’ll talk about the folks driving to schools with tanks.

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Granny Godzilla

December 19th, 2012
8:53 am
Madmax

I was hoping for some heart from you…..

I’m a patriot and a follower of the fisherman.

You appear to be a gun nut

and Granny – I have compassion, I have two girls, I don’t know if I’m a patriot but I believe in freedom and if you read my posts and stopped the banal insults you would have read that I haven’t owned a gun since I was a kid and I’m not a member of the NRA so no, I’m not a gun nut, I just believe the government has too much control over our lives and passing laws, however well intentioned they may be, just for the sake of doing something is a very stupid idea and is probably one of the major reasons we are in the financial mess we have today. We pass laws in knee jerk fashion, then just move on to the next fire and let someone else figure out what it means/should mean which leads to overloaded beauracracy and lots of work for lawyers trying to figure out what it really is.

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“Per my 9:21, you haven’t the foggiest idea what you’re talking about.”

Joe, I did waste a minute of my time reading your 9:21, while I typically avoid reading your posts wasting that minute only reaffirmed that you have nothing substantive to say. But thank you for reading my posts and commenting even though you do have little to say.

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“Pardon my ignorance of the subject, but would it be possible to require the ammunition seller to laser-engrave the buyer SSN on each bullet before sale?”

As much identity theft as there is out there you now want ss #s on ammo? Seems like identifying a bullet would be a good idea on the surface. But it wouldn’t have mattered to this killer or the batman movie killer or the columbine killers. They didn’t care if you knew who they were after the fact. Plus guys who want to use them for criminal purposes can just pay a straw purchaser to buy the ammo for them and the straw purchaser can later just say the ammo was stolen or lost. Still not a bad idea though if it can be done fairly cheaply. It can’t hurt. But I wouldn’t want my social on it.

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I read this today hoping to see some rational ideas but not really expecting to. Granny Godzilla made reasonable suggestions as did Jay in his lead, (although I didn’t like ALL his ideas). Other may have in the first 100 posts but I just skimmed those.

Mostly all I have seen is nonsense from both sides which is WHY we can’t ever get anything meaningful done in this Country any more. No one in their right mind wants to see something like this happen again. There HAS to be some middle ground here people. I love guns and shooting. Most fun I had all year was when a buddy took me trap shooting down in Clayton County this summer. It was a blast.

But we STILL need a few laws to stop some of this nonsense from happening. I know, when all the guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns right? Wrong. Rather than bumper sticker talk radio phrases and MSNBC sound bites how about more of us actually think and present some REASONABLE ideas?

Me? I like Jay’s idea about REQUIRING training as a prerequisite for a carry and conceal permit. I’d go even further, require it for purchase of ANY firearm. A DD 214 (honorable discharge) would do for those like Scout, Del, JHM, myself, ect who served. Face it, you GET weapons training in the military. But I would also mandate a refresher course ever 5 or 10 years.

I liked Granny’s idea of renewing the license every so many years so that status can be updated.

I don’t like a ban on assault weapons but I could support a ban on high capacity mags. Although I doubt in this case it would have made a difference. I doubt 5 and 6 year old kids would have bum rushed this guy if he had to reload more, but it would have made a difference in the Movie shootings.

Please tell me how any of the things I just wrote infringe on our right to bear arms?

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JHM, how many times have we heard that Ftroop claim that they “scroll by” and yet they seem to take a lot of time to make snide commentary and respond.

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Mike

Seems no different than when a blond haired girl goes missing. Both Greta on FOX and Nancy (Dis)Grace(d) on CNN will go on for days and weeks about it. Black & brown kids go missing and little to nothing………

Sensationalism as always sold and always will. Sad but true

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What about the millions of kids that die each year from abortion. No one raises a stink about that.

well, except for the millions of online trolls who post this off topic sh-t literally every time a gun thread goes up.

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“If you make gun owners and sellers financially liable for any damage done with their weapons, you create a market-based incentive to be responsible.”

I can’t stop laughing at this. A group of people (liberals) waging a massive campaign to make sure that no one has to take personal responsibility for anything in their lives now wants to hold gun owners and sellers financially responsible.

Classic.

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Jay,

Is your definition of an assault weapon the one that seemed to be suggested in an earlier thread, any semiautomatic weapon with a detachable magazine?

Since there seems to be some difficulty with defining assault weapons, it would help if you would make that clear.

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“A group of people (liberals) waging a massive campaign to make sure that no one has to take personal responsibility for anything in their lives….”

Ben Shockley,

It is funny it is. But isn’t that what libs do? Make sure no one has to take personal responsibility for anything in their lives? It sure seems to resonate with their voters.

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I see this problem as much, if not more, than the effort to stop cigarete smoking by putting warning labels on packs and public education.

One thing is crystal clear.

Gun manufacturers, like cigarete makers, will protect profits at all costs.

So, if the Govt. launches an all out effort to lower gun carnage, look for gun manufacturers to hire an army of lawyers and fight in court, tooth and nail, any and every effort to save lives at the cost of lower profits.

Money talks.

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Looks like gun control isn’t going to be solved here today.

Let’s revisit Benghazi.

Huff Post, Dec 19, 2012

“Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) acknowledged on Wednesday that House Republicans had consciously voted to reduce the funds allocated to the State Department for embassy security since winning the majority in 2010.

On Wednesday morning, CNN anchor Soledad O’Brien asked the Utah Republican if he had “voted to cut the funding for embassy security.”

“Absolutely,” Chaffetz said. “Look we have to make priorities and choices in this country. We have…15,000 contractors in Iraq. We have more than 6,000 contractors, a private army there, for President Obama, in Baghdad. And we’re talking about can we get two dozen or so people into Libya to help protect our forces. When you’re in tough economic times, you have to make difficult choices. You have to prioritize things.”

For the past two years, House Republicans have continued to deprioritize the security forces protecting State Department personnel around the world. In fiscal year 2011, lawmakers shaved $128 million off of the administration’s request for embassy security funding. House Republicans drained off even more funds in fiscal year 2012 — cutting back on the department’s request by $331 million. ”

Where is the outrage? To parahase USMC, I think.

Tea party prioritized; people died.

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Isn’t it necessary to present a valid, state-issued I.D. to buy a gun?

Why don’t liberals see this law as racist and discriminatory against the underprivileged?

Why don’t they see the need to have an I.D. to buy a firearm as the mean old white man’s way to keep minorities from having guns?

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I think gun ownership is a choice, and therefore I think Obamacare should be forced to provide my ammunition.

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Me? I like Jay’s idea about REQUIRING training as a prerequisite for a carry and conceal permit. I’d go even further, require it for purchase of ANY firearm. A DD 214 (honorable discharge) would do for those like Scout, Del, JHM, myself, ect who served. Face it, you GET weapons training in the military. But I would also mandate a refresher course ever 5 or 10 years.

This.

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Fred: “Mostly all I have seen is nonsense from both sides which is WHY we can’t ever get anything meaningful done in this Country any more. No one in their right mind wants to see something like this happen again. There HAS to be some middle ground here people”

Complete bosh, Fred.

You can’t say there has been nonsense on both sides in this matter since, as on so many other issues, one side has simply decided for the most part to shut its mouth and let the extremists rule the issue. That’s why efforts to advance gun control, which used to be rather energetic, essentially died over the past decade. How many times did you hear the issue discussed in depth as a serious policy issue in the recent presidential election? It was completely off the radar screen.

So THAT is the reason that there is no “middle ground” on this issue.

A “middle ground” would probably look a lot like what Jay Bookman lays out above. But the resistance to even these sensible measures will be met with a ferocious onslaught of resistance from the thug lobby National Child Slaughter Association (NRA).

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You wont see bookman or other anti-American gungrabbers mention this but…..there was an ATTEMPTED massacre at another movie theater. This time in San Antonio. Why wasnt it a massacre? Someone else had a gun and stopped it before it got started. If bookman had his way we would be reading about another massacre. But since a person with a gun stopped it they story doesnt get the coverage.

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“Gun manufacturers, like cigarete makers, will protect profits at all costs.”

So.

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So which radio talk show host or FOXBOT commentator (or ALL of them), has been spouting the “Chicago gun violence is Obama’s fault” diversion? Too many idiots are fixated on this for them to have ALL simultaneously just “thunk it up on their own.” I mean there must be 40 posts about in the 260 here.

I know, no one that posts here EVER watches Fox or listens to talk radio, they just channel the talking points……..

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Fred, to your point about magazine capacity and how it probably wouldn’t have made a difference because those innocent little children probably were frozen in shock. I’ve owned a Remington 742 30-06 for about 32 years that I once used for deer hunting. The 742 is a semi-automatic hunting rifle that can hold 4 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber. A shooter with little ability other than knowing how to load and fire could go into a classroom with multiple loaded four round magazines and have a similar murderous effect as the sicko did at Sandy Hook. The first priority is protecting our children and there are best practice solutions beyond what’s in place now at most schools that could become standards that would be far more effective than simply banning certain guns and accessories.

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can readers of the AJC sue bookman because they believed his crap and are really dumb now?

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And the cons continue to demonstrate why they’re losers. If it were only 50 children killed by a person with an assault rifle and none of them were your own children, would that be enough to make it acceptable to impose responsibilities on gun owners? I doubt it. How many cons would sacrifice their own children in the name of preserving their idea of 2nd amendment rights.

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If lack of God is a problem with disturbed children, why is there no
national movement to have them treated by faith healing preachers
or just prayed for in churches?

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Welcome to the Occupation

December 19th, 2012
10:08 am
Fred: “Mostly all I have seen is nonsense from both sides which is WHY we can’t ever get anything meaningful done in this Country any more. No one in their right mind wants to see something like this happen again. There HAS to be some middle ground here people”

Complete bosh, Fred.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Really? Then what do you the trash I’ll link below?

A “middle ground” would probably look a lot like what Jay Bookman lays out above. But the resistance to even these sensible measures will be met with a ferocious onslaught of resistance from the thug lobby National Child Slaughter Association (NRA).

Yeah buddy, THAT is an intelligent phrase designed to inspire reasoned discussion. You sir are a solution, you are the problem. You obviously can’t discuss matters in a polite fashion. It’s not just the Republicans, you hard core left wing fanatics are just as hard headed and unwilling to use civility OR compromise on this issue.

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“can readers of the AJC sue bookman because they believed his crap and are really dumb now?”

They would have to prove they weren’t dumb before. Good luck on that with any of Bookman’s lib regulars…..

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JHM,

No further comment as I wouldn’t want to get you all worked up and begin laughing and pointing at yourself. There might be medications for your problem but I’m not a mental health professional.

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curious

December 19th, 2012
10:05 am

Looks like gun control isn’t going to be solved here today.

Let’s revisit Benghazi.

I wouldn’t count on that, curious. These folks figured that one out several weeks ago. Nothing to see here, folks, move along!

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curious — “Unfortunately people with dishonorable discharges get DD 214s., section 8s, too.”

However, the *character* of your discharge will be noted on the DD214.

In my case, it says “HON” in that space. In my brother-in-law’s case, it says “OTH.”

IMO, brother-in-law should come in for extra scrutiny before being allowed to purchase or secure a CCP.

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Right on cue. The incessant whining about Rush, Hannity, and Fox news. As predictable as the sun rising in the east.

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Background checks for all gun sales, including on-line and gun shows.

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“Let’s revisit Benghazi.”

Cannot do that because Hillary has a concussion. Now how did she get that? Is it like the folders that simply appeared on the table while she was in the white house.

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Liberals are so funny. 26 people get killed in Connecticut, libs want to throw the Constitution in the trash and take away people’s 2nd amendment rights. Over 2,000 die in the world trade center, libs are opposed to profiling muslim non-citizens at the airport because they don’t want to offend anybody.

You can’t make this stuff up.

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Sure willie. Your kids have been sacrificed at school to assault rifle fire since the 1800’s yet your family tree survives. Sounds more like rabbit hole talk to me.

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What practical steps, within the protections of the Second Amendment, can we take to reduce mass killings and gun violence?

Gawd help us, but these awful new age Republicans are the antithesis of practical. They do not want practical. They LOVE violence. It is what makes them feel important and powerful. And if they are not willing to even address the slaughter of innocent Americans in any practical way, so what?.

And why they are sealing their own fate – on the globally cooled outside looking in. On this and a host of other matters and challenges facing this republic.

But know this, unempowered by choice neocons, we WILL take on these issues, in the streets of this country and in the halls of OUR government – the one that you Do Nothing Party types despise, without you albatrosses.

And why I portend that you are going to continue losing three out of every four national elections going forward.

So by all means, I encourage you to sit on your plump arses in the stands and b*tch like little old women.

Occupy that.

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““Nobody is preventing students from praying in schools.”

Please, you can kid yourself but limit it to that, OK?”

Willie – do you have a link to a law preventing prayer in schools? Thanks!

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Recon — “JHM, No further comment as I wouldn’t want to get you all worked up and begin laughing and pointing at yourself.”

No problem, son. I’m always glad to be able to participate in smartening you up and advancing your woefully inadequate education. Now, if we can just get you to shut your yap about things you know nothing about, we’ll be getting somewhere.

“There might be medications for your problem but I’m not a mental health professional.”

My “problem” is called Better Educated And Smarter Than You On The Topic You Chose To Bloviate On.

Whereas *your* problem is that you opened your trap without engaging the safety first.

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Ben Shockley: “Liberals are so funny. 26 people get killed in Connecticut, libs want to throw the Constitution in the trash and take away people’s 2nd amendment rights”.

Well, I for one want to “throw the constitution in the trash”, but it didn’t take the slaughter of the children in Conn. for me to want it. I wanted that anyway.

“Over 2,000 die in the world trade center, libs are opposed to profiling muslim non-citizens ”

Ah, I see how you are.

Your beef is that we can’t turn out nation into a police state fast enough.

Gotcha.

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The nation seems ready to have a serious discussion about how to prevent gun violence. Do the “conservatives” have any contribution besides, “No – things are fine the way they are?”

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“Politeness is of little use when jack-booted thugs like Wayne Lapierre and their proto-fascistic thug lobbies have turned out nation into slaughter grounds.”

The liberal “its somebody else’s fault or its a corporation’s fault” syndrome at work.

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Let me throw this out there to all of you advocating the licensing of guns. You want to license guns and or gunowners, but, you fight against voter i.d. laws. Why?

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“I’m not kidding myself. I have a child in public school. nothing is preventing my child from praying before taking a test.”

So you are saying you child can stand up raise her arms to heaven say aloud, “Jesus, my lord and savior, please help me remember those things that are important and not become confused by the questions and have the wisdom to answer the question correctly. In your Name I pray.”

Give me a break!!

I do applaud her for praying.

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I have noticed that you are an idiot and an inveterate liar.

How do we address this, willie?

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Yawn. Time to go recycle stuff to make money and then go spend it all at the dump on the stuff I can’t recycle lol. I see very few people willing to talk ideas and not bumper stickers.

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Notice Jay didn’t advocate banning guns he just wants tighter control like other dangerous elements of our society. The right will tell the universe we want a gun ban which I would love if it was constitutionally available, it is not. Like smoking we need to believe these guns lower your life expectance owning one. There needs to be some truth bannered about in these discussions and a compromise laid out that protects the public and meets the needs of the citizen. Guns are not tennis or golf, this recreational aspect disappears, in my opinion, once you start writing it into the Constitution.

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NRA vows to help prevent school shootings

In other news, Mr.Fox has promised to help the farmer develop a fox-proof hen house.

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libs want to throw the constitution in the trash but they don’t want to profile for fear of “offending” someone. Trying to make sense of the kook mind is like trying to do calculus after 25 beers. It just aint easy.

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“Your beef is that we can’t turn out nation into a police state fast enough. ”

………so says the guy who wants to take all the guns away from private citizens and let government be the only ones armed……………

Like I said, you just can’t make this stuff up.

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I will support any change/legislation that will do two things:

1) Actually “PREVENT” Newtown type tragedies.

2) Pass Constitutional muster.

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Ben, so do you think every citizen should have access to any weaponry they want including heavy artillery? And no restrictions at all on sales including no background checks?

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No 2nd amendment problems with requiring gun manufacturers to
devise a method whereby a gun can only be used by the owner such
as a fingerprint lock.

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After four more years of Obama’s trillion plus annual deficits, guns, ammunition, and canned goods will be the only things of value.

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“………so says the guy who wants to take all the guns away from private citizens and let government be the only ones armed……………

Like I said, you just can’t make this stuff up.”

No one here is saying that. You are making this stuff up. Just a straw man argument.

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Ben Shockley: “They LOVE violence. It is what makes them feel important and powerful” / We’re not talking about unions right now. We’re talking about gun control. Try to stay on topic please”

Yeah, unions are the violent ones. Always. Thuggish corporate interests and their state backers are never thuggish and violent. Never………——————–> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

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“Bork would fit right in with the founding fathers that wrote the Constitution.”

Had to do a typo correction and fix some kook ignorance.

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I agree…

http://www.upworthy.com/a-military-perspective-on-the-newtown-school-shooting?c=upw1

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No 2nd amendment problems with requiring gun manufacturers to
devise a method whereby a gun can only be used by the owner such
as a fingerprint lock.

I would certainly support that approach and we have the technology to do so.

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About fifteen years ago I was invited to the Atlanta office of the FBI to view an exhibit of Holocaust photos newly displayed along the walls leading to their anti-terrorism unit.

The exhibit began with a photo of a small Jewish store in Warsaw, Poland. Subsequent photos showed Jewish citizens with big yellow stars sewn on the front of their clothes. The photos became progressively more disturbing and the last photo showed naked bodies being removed from an oven at one of the Nazi death camps.

However, in the middle of the collection was an amazing photo of a ragtag group of about fifteen Jewish men and boys taken during the 1943 “Warsaw Ghetto Uprising”. They had obviously assembled very quickly and were standing and kneeling there on the street with an odd assortment of weapons; a few shotguns, a rifle or two, some pistols and revolvers and even a captured German belt-fed machinegun.

As a group of Atlanta community leaders arrived at that photo, everyone became extremely vocal at the courage displayed by those men and boys. I then stated in a loud voice so all in the exhibit area could hear; “Good reason for the 2nd Amendment folks”.

You could have heard a pin drop.

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…calculus is actually beneficial to society.

Says Mr. Global Cooling.

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“Show me one instance where I EVER spoke out against voter ID’s or admit you are a liar.”

So you’re in favor of voter ID laws? A simpel yes or no will suffice.

Thanks in advance.

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“So you are saying you child can stand up raise her arms to heaven say aloud, “Jesus, my lord and savior, please help me remember those things that are important and not become confused by the questions and have the wisdom to answer the question correctly. In your Name I pray.”

Legally I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t, but getting up in the middle of class and yelling without being called on would be a disruption no matter what the student says.

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“Are gun sellers now required to be clairvoyant in their ability to predict the future use of weapons? In Jay’s Utopian world, yes.”

Jay do live in liberal fantasyland with chocolately unicorns that poop skittles he do.

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0311 — “I then stated in a loud voice so all in the exhibit area could hear; “Good reason for the 2nd Amendment folks”.

Actually, I bet you cut a loud, wet fart, and that’s why they all clammed up.

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Deadly and criminal acts by the Titans of Malfeasance and Criminal Negligence who run these giant corporations in the past forty years?

Do you have a few hours?

Lets begin with four words – Hooker Chemical Love Canal.

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jay, i can agree with you on much of your statements today. trigger locks is a great idea… limit the magazine size is reasonable. 10 or 12 should suffice. but banning a certain style of SEMI-automatic weapon is ridiculous. as long as you reduce the magazine size that should accomplish the goal. but after everyone’s “ban this, ban that”, everything still comes back to personal and societal responsibilities. also in your auto examples, you still leave out “hey stupid, stop drinking and driving” … personal responsibility still left off. but i would expect nothing less from you

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JamVet,

Regarding climate change, are you aware that correlation and causation are two different things? Are you aware that, as a matter of scientific principal, correlation does NOT prove causation?

Are you aware that you’re not too bright?

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Good poignant post “1801″.

Maybe you should add “1911″ in there somewhere.

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Thulsa Doom: “Occupation can’t do any better than an example from 1914″

You don’t have to look far, believe me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19286654

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In all probability there will be a ban on so called assault weapons and then just like during the last one we’ll have another Columbine and another and another.

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“Like I said, you just can’t make this stuff up.”

But YOU do, constantly, Ben!

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…but the cons usually don’t even bother to join the discussion.

Or run away after being challenged to actually discuss this issue.

And I see that same one is back with the implication that liberals are unwilling to dialogue about this after running away yesterday.

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Doom – 10:10

So, profits mean everything to them.

Clearly, human lives mean nothing.

That’s fine with them and you.

And, that’s all I really need to know about them, and you.

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Ben Shockley

December 19th, 2012
10:43 am

“Show me one instance where I EVER spoke out against voter ID’s or admit you are a liar.”

So you’re in favor of voter ID laws? A simpel yes or no will suffice.

Thanks in advance.
++++++++++++++++++++

Hell to the yeah. I don’t hear people whining about having to show ID to buy beer so why should they complain about a picture ID to prove who they are to vote? And that crap about not being able to go get one? They got out to vote didn’t they?

As far as I saw here in Georgia they even made it so a “State ID” as opposed to a drivers license was free so no one can complain about a “poll tax.”

Whoops, sorry, I was just supposed to say Yeas lol.

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Fred:
Give me a freaking break. Regular posters come on here and generalize every minute of every day. Don’t take my comment / question personally or literally, for that matter. I asked what I thought was a valid question and all you can do is personalize it and call me a liar? After the lambashing I took yesterday (and, rightfully so) I felt that I did think it through before I posted.

Anyway, I have guns in my home. I even own the dreaded “AR-15 Bushmaster.” Hell, I have a couple of 20 round magazines for it. When I bought it, ammo was much cheaper and it was fun to target practice with it and dispatch the occasional varmit around the livestock. I also own a gun safe and it’s completely full of guns and ammo. I have a 9mm Glock in my bed side dresser and The Judge in my pick-up truck. Hunting and firearms is a way of life in rural USA. To some, this makes me a “gun nut” or a “doomsday prepper” or any number of other vile things. I don’t take offense when people make general comments on here and lump everyone meeting a certain criteria into the same category.

Get over yourself!

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Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 19th, 2012
10:52 am

“…but the cons usually don’t even bother to join the discussion.”

“Or run away after being challenged to actually discuss this issue.”

Kamchak, I challenge to tell is whether or not you approve of socialism, and then I challenge you to discuss the issue on it’s merits.

But I’m betting you just run away.

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Only way to limit or stop gun violence IS TO GET THE IMMORAL SCUM OFF THE STREETS INSTEAD OF SLAPPING THEM ON THE HAND AND MAKING EXCUSES, THE STANDARD LIBERAL DEMOCRAT METHOD! IF IT TAKES 5000 NEW PRISONS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, JUST DO IT!

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Looks like we struck a nerve with JamVet. I guess the answer is “no Ben, I don’t know the difference between correlation and causation.”

Thanks Jammy.

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Kamchak, I challenge to tell is whether or not you approve of socialism, and then I challenge you to discuss the issue on it’s merits.

For the umpteenth time: the word “socialism” has lost it’s original meaning and it has become a code woreed for “fear.”

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This just in: Robert Bork has died.

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“word” not “woreed”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anybody know why Ben’s face is tight?

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Joe Hussein Mama

“I seem to recall the standard response to that being that driving is a privilege, whereas firearm ownership is a Constitutional right.”

I doubt even the Constitution grants rights without restriction. Otherwise, I guess we can buy that grenade launcher.

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OK, Kammy, tell us what it really means and tells us whether you’re in favor of it or opposed to it.

Don’t run away now, little boy.

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Crap. I can sit here all day and procrastinate rather than do real work. What a slug I have become I HAVE to go. But before I leave……..

Thanks Scout and DEL for your willingness to discuss the issue and compromise on REASONABLE changes. Unfortunately so many on the right are unable to do either and so many the left are unable to discuss it OR propose REASONABLE changes.

LOL Del, you went farther than I would have with the finger print thing. I don’t like it at all, but I could live with it.

Anyway, gotta split.

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OK, Kammy, tell us what it really means and tells us whether you’re in favor of it or opposed to it.

No.

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“Watch, he’ll start calling you names, too!”

We expect libs to call people names. It’s sort of a crutch for the intellectually inept. They also like to call people “liar” without ever pointing out a lie and/or substantiating that anything was, in fact, a lie.

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indigo,

You’ll have to take up your whining with the gun mfgers.

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Well, after getting on here and pounding his chest about people who run away when challenged to debate, it looks like Kammypoo decided to………..

Run away.

Poor little Kammy. Looks like Ben really peed in his cornflakes.

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Here’s an idea that many won’t think about…..

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/would_the_u_s_government_profile_white_men/singleton/

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“They also like to call people “liar” without ever pointing out a lie and/or substantiating that anything was, in fact, a lie.”- straight from lib debating tactics 101.

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GT:
Thulsa Doom it ain’t libs blowing away 20 school kids and more teachers”

I challenge that statement! It was a liberal from a liberal community.

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“I don’t know how you define kook but that is a soft word for how I define these gun nuts you bred on that side of the aisle and then you try to defend them with our constitution.”

GT, well now there is this tidbit in the constitution called the 2nd amendment. Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It relates to them “gun nuts”.

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Too bad many of the conservatives in Congress and here aren’t demanding answers and solutions as they did after Benghazi.

I guess 20, 5-7 year olds, shot multiple times, don’t rate as high as those adults, paid to be in harm’s way, in Benghazi.

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Welcome to the Occupation

December 19th, 2012
11:04 am

The conservatives are ultimately OK with continuing to be complicit with the conditions that allow events like the 20 slaughtered kids in Connecticut to grow ever more frequent, though it may send a shiver of trouble through the depths of their souls for just a moment, because in the end doing everything possible to prevent the slaughter is 20 young kids is less important than keeping that thumb right in the eye of that phantom enemy, the ‘liberals’.

Show me where I EVER said I was ok with the slaughter of children or admit that you are a liar!
(works for Fred, I thought, what the heck?)

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“OK, Kammy, tell us what it really means and tells us whether you’re in favor of it or opposed to it.”

Ben – whenever you lose an argument, you deflect to this. Is this all you’ve got? Sheesh.

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“If someone wants to sell an existing assault weapon, they can sell only to the government.”

And what exactly does the government do with it? Introduce it to a “Fast & Furious” type program???

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RGB:

As usual this debate narrows down to emotion vs. reason.

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williebkind

December 19th, 2012
10:49 am

First and foremost you dont need a law just a teacher or Principle will suspend you on the spot. Of course in the Education world most of those are liberals.
________________________________________________________________________________

First off, teachers don’t suspend students. Principals, the administrators, do that. Second, have you any evidence or examples of a student being suspended for “praying” at school? I work in education – yes I’m a teacher – and have never seen it even come close to that.

And I noticed how in your previous example you had the student standning up and holding their arms upward and praying out loud. Do they HAVE to pray out loud, and stand up, for their prayers to be heard??? I think silent prayers work too.

But even it a student did do that, that would be fine, as long as it didn’t disturb the class. It amazes me how you think religion is actually treated in school. At our ballgames, we have a moment of silence and the players say the Lord’s Prayer out loud (not school led – they do it on their own).

But I’m sure you will be posting later how those students were ALL suspended by some liberal teacher!!

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williebkind

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Scientists-agree-Humans-causing-global-warming-1227187.php

There’s no more time for your ignorance.

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“Too bad many of the conservatives in Congress and here aren’t demanding answers and solutions as they did after Benghazi.

I guess 20, 5-7 year olds, shot multiple times, don’t rate as high as those adults, paid to be in harm’s way, in Benghazi”

Good God. Nothing like blaming the cons for the murder of these innocent kids in a very, very liberal state that have some of the toughest gun laws in America. Also, just ignore the fact that the liberal governor refused to pass a mental health/illness law in the state that possibly could have locked up this nut.

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Someone mention Bork?

Rude Pundit’s already done a touching obit. And yes, it is on-topic.

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Welcome – 11:00

100% correct

You said it better than I could.

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Milton man

No blame, just wondering where the outrage is.

If we do nothing and it happens again, then I say blame is in order.

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I wonder if our elite will want their security without firearms? Come on elite, set the example…..give peace a chance!……

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“Calling me a lib was a lie.”

LMFAO

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Ben Shockley

December 19th, 2012
11:04 am

Well, after getting on here and pounding his chest about people who run away when challenged to debate, it looks like Kammypoo decided to………..

Run away.

Poor little Kammy. Looks like Ben really peed in his cornflakes.
++++++++++++++++++

Your desire for “victory” is sad. Kam lives in the sticks and his connection is slower than your thought processes. It takes him a while up there in hillbilly land to refresh.

I know that’s tough for you to understand, but try because it will make your silly crowing look less stupid to the rest of us.

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“I wonder if our elite will want their security without firearms?”

Oh sure. They’ll enroll their kids in public schools too.

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As usual this debate narrows down to emotion vs. reason

This from a poster who uses only fear and emotions without reason as he cries out….Wolverine! As if the second amendment was intended to fight our own government, police, soldiers, Natl Guard and other citizens when at some unclear point with undefined events creating a tyrannical govt as if every nut case does not create their own little whine about tryanny and what constitutes it…

Of course, he also claims to believe everything he reads in news reports…..

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Democrats/Liberals are in charge of labeling and defining……..

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Ben – whenever you lose an argument, you deflect to this. Is this all you’ve got? Sheesh.

Regnad

Ben has been chasing me around with this sh*t ever since the days of CT’s old blog. I enjoy making him spew foam

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Thulsa Doom

December 19th, 2012
11:11 am

Doomy…the problem with profiling is that it makes several assumptions that….in many cases…aren’t in evidence!! The article would lead one to believe that those that need to be profiled in situations like this are primarily white men….but would white men allow themselves to be profiled in such a manner?? Doubtful….but white men want black men to be persistently profiled under the guise of crime prevention!! That’s why…IMHO…profiling DOESN’T work!! There has to be another methodology at work here……..

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Fred, why don’t you let little Kammypoo grow a pair and speak for himself.

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“We, collectively, as a Nation”

We, collectively, as a Nation would not be guilty. Why not just blame yourself?

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“Milton man

No blame, just wondering where the outrage is.

If we do nothing and it happens again, then I say blame is in order.”

Bush absolutly did nothing; Obama could have attempted to extend/renew the 1994 AR ban but did not put any effort into this but now is all of sudden interested??? Nothing like having a reactive vs. proactive government.

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MiltonMan:

“If someone wants to sell an existing assault weapon, they can sell only to the government.”
And what exactly does the government do with it? Introduce it to a “Fast & Furious” type program???”

As I posted previously today, that was one of the more ludicrous positions that Jay took in this thread.

Congress can pass an “assault weapons ban” (as they have before) and it will probably (if reasonable) pass Constitutional muster.

However, banning the sale of a product that is now LEGAL I believe would be similar if not identical with the prohibition problem years ago. That can only be done with a Constitutional Amendment because to “ban the sale of what is now a legal product” would be unconstitutional.

That’s why under the old law banning the new manufacturing of “assault weapons” there was (to my knowledge) no ban on the sale of existing ones.

In general, “ex post facto” laws are unconstitutional.

“In the United States, the Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 of the United States Constitution. The states are prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 1 of Article I, Section 10.”

“No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.”

“Definition: The legal term ex post facto (”after the fact”) generally refers to laws or other mandates that are passed to restrict behavior that was, when practiced, entirely legal.”

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Doom — ““They also like to call people “liar” without ever pointing out a lie and/or substantiating that anything was, in fact, a lie.”- straight from lib debating tactics 101.”

Bookmarked for future use.

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“Ben has been chasing me around with this sh*t ever since the days of CT’s old blog. I enjoy making him spew foam”

Kammy,

The entire blogosphere has seen you for what you really are. But don’t worry. In kook libland, you’ll still get a trophy, just like all the other losers.

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cons are kooks and proud of it.

When they stop being kooks, we can start taking them seriously and we are a long way from that.

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Jay:

“Ben, grow up. Discuss issues, not personalities.”

There are many others on here you need to admonish since you have picked on Ben.

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Jay,

Seriously.

Read back a few posts. JamVet called me a dumbass, several called me a liar, etc. I absolutely don’t care what names they call me, I’m fine with it. Just curious that I’m the one you seem to have a problem with, that’s all.

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MiltonMan

“Bush absolutly did nothing; Obama could have attempted to extend/renew the 1994 AR ban but did not put any effort into this but now is all of sudden interested??? Nothing like having a reactive vs. proactive government.”

Usually things/laws happen as a reaction to some event.

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YELLOW CARD!

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Here you go, Jay…

JamVet

December 19th, 2012
10:37 am

Benji, you do play the role of clown well, but you really could use something else to expand on your dumbass role here.

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Jay, I’m really busy, but if you need help moderating your blog, I might be persuaded.

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A mother with four gunshot wounds to the head, administered by her son on his way to gun down little children at the nearby school.

20 young children lie dead at the school.

Profits still look good for the gun makers and their Wall St./private equity owners.

Hold all these images firmly in your mind, conservatives. They belong together like America and apple pie.

Don’t be mad that we point out these connections, good liberal-haters. Just accept them as belonging together and go about your business. You can’t have one without the other and the “market” has clearly spoken, right?

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Here’s some more, Jay…

JamVet

December 19th, 2012
10:34 am

I have noticed that you are an idiot and an inveterate liar.

How do we address this, willie?

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0311 — “In general, “ex post facto” laws are unconstitutional.

“In the United States, the Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 of the United States Constitution. The states are prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 1 of Article I, Section 10.”

“No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.”

You misunderstand. In this case, an ex post facto law would criminalize PAST activity, making you liable for the past purchase of something that was legal at the time.

Making the sale of such weapons illegal NOW would force you to *retain* the weapon, but you’d be unable to sell it. That said, such a law wouldn’t be ex post facto, because it’s not concerned with what you did *before* the law was passed.

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There have been MANY things that were legal that are now illegal. A constitutional amendment to make them illegal?? I think not…

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Welcome, did you hear anybody argue in favor of guns based on economic/profit issues? I haven’t. All the arguments I have heard were based on Constitutional principals.

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“how about a vote on whether or not Ben should be banned?”

How about a vote on whether or not we think your scroll wheel is broken?

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so according to bookman they guy that prevented the massacre in san antonio was playing john wayne. thank GOD he was there with a gun instead of unarmed like bookman would prefer.

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Many Blacks are so filled with hatred that they will “stick it to whitey” every chance they get.

Many cons are so filled with hatred that they will “stick it to the libs” every chance they get.

This sort of blind hatred leaves both groups vunerable to manipulation
by powerful, intelligent and sociopathic groups who cultivate and direct this hatred for their own selfish interests.

Unfortunately, it’s next to impossible to convince these Blacks and lib haters that they are being used and are nothing more than tools for these sociopathic groups.

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Jay

December 19th, 2012
11:37 am

“No, Ben. I don’t need your help. Perhaps you should go start your own blog and you can moderate both of the people who will read it and comment there.”

Nah, I like screwing with the kook libs on your blog. Thanks for the offer though.

Oh…nice double standard on the name-calling, by the way.

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“how about a vote on whether or not Ben should be banned?”

I’d vote “No”, too. I like having Ben around. Whenever I’m feeling down, I get to remind myself at least I’m not him…good for my moral, don’t cha know?

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“Scout, you don’t have the slightest idea of what you’re talking about.”

You KNOW I hit a nerve when Jay decides to reply to me.

Well then, we will let the courts decide won’t we !

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