War on drunk driving a model for reducing gun violence
What practical steps, within the protections of the Second Amendment, can we take to reduce mass killings and gun violence? Can such an effort even begin to make a difference in saving lives and preventing heartbreak?
Yes, it can. And we have a model of success to draw upon.
By 1982, more than 21,000 Americans were dying each year in alcohol-related accidents. Yet somehow by 2010, the number of fatalities caused by drunk driving had fallen to 10,228, a decline of more than half. We didn’t solve the problem, but clearly we have made substantial progress. We are saving more than 10,000 lives a year and preventing tens of thousands more from being crippled or maimed. Almost as important, over the years we have prevented tens of thousands of drivers from ruining their own lives by killing people while under the influence.
We did not achieve that progress by banning automobiles. We did not ban alcohol. In fact, no single dramatic change produced the turnaround. It was achieved through a broad, concerted legal effort backed by a fundamental change in what was deemed culturally acceptable
We required automakers to make their products safer, including then-controversial steps such as requiring airbags. We mandated use of seatbelts. We increased the legal liability of bars, taverns and restaurants that over-served customers, to ensure that those making money off the problem had some “skin in the game” in reducing it.
We instituted a national drinking age of 21, which reduced the number of minors involved in alcohol-related fatalities. In Georgia alone, the rate of such alcohol-related fatalities involving drivers under 21 fell by 63.7 percent from 2000 to 2010 We increased enforcement efforts, such as DUI roadblocks. We tightened licensing requirements and also nationalized databases, so that someone stripped of his or her license in one state for drunk driving could not be licensed in another state.
So how do you apply those lessons to gun safety? As with automobiles, you improve the safety of the devices themselves, for example by requiring the installation of trigger locks. (If Nancy Lanza had installed trigger locks in guns kept in a household with an unbalanced young man, she and 26 other people today in Newtown might still be alive.) You ban the sale, use or possession of high-capacity magazines, such as the 30-round mags that Adam Lanza used. And you ban altogether the sale or transfer of assault weapons. If someone wants to sell an existing assault weapon, they can sell only to the government.
As with automobiles, you require evidence that individuals know how to operate certain weapons before they can be licensed to use or possess them. The National Rifle Association points out, correctly, that those who go through gun-safety and marksmanship courses to qualify for concealed-carry permits in many states are rarely involved in crime. Why not extend that successful model to gun ownership in general? (Georgia, by the way, requires no gun-safety training and no evidence of gun-handling ability before granting permits to carry concealed weapons.)
In addition to licensing gun owners, you register weapons. (With some 200 million guns in private hands, the fear of a government effort to go door to door confiscating registered weapons is ludicrous paranoia.) If a registered weapon is used in a crime but was not reported stolen, the person to whom it is registered can be held civilly or even criminally liable. That’s responsible gun ownership, and would curtail the black market substantially.
One of the bigger deterrents to drunk driving is the significantly increased cost of auto insurance for those convicted. Bars and liquor stores with a history of over-serving also have to worry about increased insurance costs. If you make gun owners and sellers financially liable for any damage done with their weapons, you create a market-based incentive to be responsible.
None of those steps violates the Constitution; none prevents honest citizens from obtaining firearms for personal defense, hunting and other legitimate purposes. But together, they have the potential to dramatically reduce the number of deaths caused by firearm misuse.
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693 comments Add your comment
Citizen of the World
December 19th, 2012
8:48 am
So some of the posters here who think absolutely nothing should be done to curtail gun violence that might “infringe” on our Second Amendment rights are ready to throw the First Amendment out the window by banning excessive violence in the media?
That certainly was not the point of my 8:22 post. But I do think that we as a people should turn it all off. The producers, writers, directors, actors, programmers and the rest would not create such violent fare if there were not a market for it.
keith
December 19th, 2012
8:49 am
Dianne Feinstein has a carry pernit. She must be one of those gun nuts returning from a cattle drive GT is referring to. Or perhaps she IS the cattle.
williebkind
December 19th, 2012
8:51 am
“War on drunk driving a model for reducing gun violence”
That is how I am afraid the liberals will approach this. My friends and I were talking about this Monday and I am not surprised to see the DNC come up with it. Now let us look at the intention of removing drunk drivers to the reality of removing drinking period. That was the intention of MADD, Mothers against drunk driving but led to MAD, mothers against drinking. It went from bac from .015 to .005. Which is totally ridiculous and was one of the first SYMPATHY LAWS. ” Oh I lost my 16yrd old son by a drunk driver in downtown Atlanta Saturday night a 11pm.”, cried the mother. Why was her 16yr old son driving in Atlanta at 11pm? That was just insensitive to say but the truth. So we started fining everyone who had a beer or a glass of wine. Which is indirectly banning drinking and that is the reality of today’s advocates for gun control–total ban.
Recon 0311 2533
December 19th, 2012
8:51 am
Biden?
Yes a task force comprised of politicians with political agendas instead of a task force comprised of experts that could produce substantive solutions instead of foolish legislation that won’t accomplish anything.
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
8:51 am
I see the cons are still going on about how it was only 20 kids. And not a single one was one of their own.
barking frog
December 19th, 2012
8:51 am
Crossing guards protect schoolchildren from cars.
Lifeguards protect schoolchildren from swimming pools.
Armed guards can protect schoolchildren from armed nuts.
RB from Gwinnett
December 19th, 2012
8:52 am
The big difference is that curtailing people’s ability to drink alcohol won’t affect their ability to protect their home from evil people or from an evil government. These are apples and oranges, Jay, and your playing games with issues that are far more important to our freedoms than you liberals appear to be capable of understanding.
Tell me again how many Kurds Saddam killed and why they didn’t fight back…
keith
December 19th, 2012
8:52 am
bookman isnt very smart. liquor stores do not overserve. trypical liberal, shift responsibility. he must think people drink at liquor stores. how dumb can he be.
Granny Godzilla
December 19th, 2012
8:53 am
Madmax
I was hoping for some heart from you…..
I’m a patriot and a follower of the fisherman.
You appear to be a gun nut.
TUNDRA DUDE
An “ABC” store, is an Alcoholic Beverage Commission store. In some states liquor is sold only through them.
Think “Firearm Commission Store” – one stop shopping for
guns and ammo and finger prints and DNA and backround checks.
skipper
December 19th, 2012
8:53 am
Jay,
You are more charitable apparantly than me. You refered to Lanza as an unbalanced young man. I refer to him as a complete lunatic! However, and it is sad, I do feel as though the mom, rest her soul, bears some responsibility. She knew she had a major problem (her son) on her hands and certainly should not have left all those guns where he could get (and use) them.
Jay
December 19th, 2012
8:54 am
Skipper, agreed.
keith
December 19th, 2012
8:55 am
and how many Jews had their guns taken away by the nazis just before they were exterminated. its bookmans mentality that allowed that to happen.
Theo
December 19th, 2012
8:56 am
If a registered weapon is used in a crime but was not reported stolen, the person to whom it is registered can be held civilly or even criminally liable.
My nephew was arrested (while drunk) for assault on an officer. He had bruises and a broken nose. The officer had no injuries. The officer failed to show up for the hearing. My nephew’s case was dismissed. Two years later he was arrested at the airport for failure to appear in court. After bail costs, legal costs, and loss of pay from his job, it was determined the Fulton County court system was at fault. No apology nor reimbursement of costs. You might trust the incompetence of government…………I don’t. Wrongful arrests are way to common.
fedup
December 19th, 2012
8:57 am
This is good start Jay. I hope NRA can come to the table in a positive manner even though their clients might have to sacrifice some profit. God knows the folks in NE unnecessarily sacrificed a lot.
keith
December 19th, 2012
8:57 am
in order to keep people safe the nazis confiscated guns. look who is advocating the same thing here. the left.
Butch
December 19th, 2012
8:58 am
Taxpayer @ 8:51am – I see the cons are still going on about how it was only 20 kids. And not a single one was one of their own.
Are you serious? If so, get help, mooyuk
Christian Conservative
December 19th, 2012
8:58 am
Well jay that’s a nice little spill but gun crime has already been reduced many times over since the 90’s. Take a look at the stats before writing something you really don’t know anything about….
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
8:59 am
Today’s nazis are easy to spot from a distance–they sport quite distinctive haircuts, etc.– so you cons will have ample opportunity to escape before they get to you.
Steve-USA
December 19th, 2012
8:59 am
“Armed guards can protect schoolchildren from armed nuts.”
I don’t own a gun or want to and I don’t drink and I don’t have all the answers.
I wonder what impression armed guards would leave on small children? Sometimes I think our solutions are more harmful than what we are trying to fix. When I was a kid I took the bus and it forced me to meet all the kids in my area at the bus stop. I think it was a healthy experience. After a couple of child abductions we have kids sitting in their parents car waiting for the bus or being driven to school. This bubble that has been created around kids is not all for the good.
…again, I don’t have all the answers or even most of them.
curious
December 19th, 2012
9:00 am
keith
“and how many Jews had their guns taken away by the nazis just before they were exterminated. its bookmans mentality that allowed that to happen.”
Probably very few. Usually, large landowners controlled the hunting rights and guns.
stands for decibels
December 19th, 2012
9:00 am
and how many Jews had their guns taken away by the nazis just before they were exterminated.
Pretty much none, since the gun regs in place were passed long before Hitler became Chancellor.
Read. Learn.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html
Jay
December 19th, 2012
9:02 am
“Tell me again how many Kurds Saddam killed and why they didn’t fight back…”
They did fight back, RB. They fought back heroically and effectively. The Kurdish are (and were back then) heavily armed with automatic weapons, etc., which is why Saddam turned to poisonous gas as a means to subdue them.
In other words, if you wish to participate in these discussions, RB, at least try to acquire a minimal level of knowledge about the topics you raise.
Furthermore, Hussein killed tens of thousands of Kurds. Your apparent implication that the democratically elected US government can be equated to Saddam Hussein and US citizens to the Kurds is fatuous and downright insulting, and can only be explained by gun-porn fantasies all too common these days.
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
9:02 am
Butch,
Do tell me what is the purpose of arguing that we need to look at the other statistics such as the number of people killed in auto accidents, etc., rather than focus efforts on reducing the con’s God-given right to unrestricted weapon ownership with no attached responsibilities. Seek help for yourself.
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:02 am
ever heard of the osaka school massacre? people do get killed by other means than guns.
fedup
December 19th, 2012
9:02 am
Hey cons your patron saint started unnecessary wars in the last decade. You want protect the country go at it with your weapons and give our soldiers a break. Guess what we need to increase the protection of our embassies. Any voluteers from your ranks. Bunch of cowards.
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
9:04 am
Hussein killed people! With what. Where did he get his WMD’s. What did Rumsfeld slip Saddam in that handshake. So many unanswered questions.
barking frog
December 19th, 2012
9:04 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-banning-assault-weapons-in-one-post/
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:05 am
according to bookman kitchen knives should be banned in japan.
Christian Conservative
December 19th, 2012
9:05 am
Sure Jay… Never let a tragedy go to waste… Especially if it means getting favorite lib laws passed that only takes away right’s of law abiding citizens….
http://nation.foxnews.com/sandy-hook-elementary-school-tragedy/2012/12/18/obama-vultures-raise-money-video-sandy-hook-elementary-speech
Crazy Peeps
December 19th, 2012
9:05 am
second that Jay.
Trigger locks. Mandatory, and permanently affixed to all guns. Yeah.
Call It Like It Is
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses his or her firearm in self-defense. 1,145 times a day guns are used against robbers, 416 times each day women use their guns to protect themselves from rapists. Overall, a gun in the home is 216 times more likely to be used in self-defense than to cause the death of an innocent victim. What about accidents? The chance of a gun owner being involved in an accidental discharge is one in 200,000. You are 29 times more likely to die in an automobile accident.
So you say ban the guns and we will have utopia? Interesting Chicago has the most strict gun laws of any city in our nation and in turn has the most murders. To put it in perspective since 2001 we have lost 2000 soldiers in Afghanistan and in Chicago we have had over 5000 murders, which is closely follow by DC and Detroit, two other cities known for their strict gun laws.
To sum it up, the innocent, the law abiding, the hunter, the marksman American already follows the rules. The bad guys don’t.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
i see the liberals are still unconcerned about all the african american youth being killed by guns in chicago
markie mark
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
Granny, if no one answered before, yes, gun permits expired. I have been meaning to renew mine for the last year, it sits expired in my wallet
barking frog
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
Steve-USA
I wonder what impression armed guards would leave on small children?
………………………………………………………………….
A much better impression than Adam Lanza did.
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
protecting our emassies is the job of the state dept. are you admitting that the obama admin has failed in that responsibility? you are correct if you are.
Jay
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
“and how many Jews had their guns taken away by the nazis just before they were exterminated.”
I see where Keith is also afflicted with adolescent gun-porn fantasies. Again, with that comparison he too wishes to cast the American people as the Jews and the US government in the role of Adolph Hitler. The inanity of that argument is profound, and again, deeply insulting to the country as a whole.
It is also historically foolish. Any implication that a Jewish community armed with pistols and hunting rifles could have fought off the Wehrmacht and SS that conquered most of Europe, rolling over the armies of France and other major countries, is absurd.
Crazy Peeps
December 19th, 2012
9:08 am
“One of the bigger deterrents to drunk driving is the significantly increased cost of auto insurance for those convicted.”
Or just the risk of going to jail and having your whole life ruined.
Peadawg
December 19th, 2012
9:08 am
Call It Like It Is
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
Nice post.
Tundra Dude
December 19th, 2012
9:08 am
Our Lady of Logan:
Think “Firearm Commission Store” – one stop shopping for
guns and ammo and finger prints and DNA and background checks.
Now yer messin’ with that free innerprize thingie…..
Notice the murder rate in Chicago is up over 20% from last year…??
Think the gangbangers will go to the official Gubmint store for their needs…?
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 19th, 2012
9:08 am
Your apparent implication that the democratically elected US government can be equated to Saddam Hussein and US citizens to the Kurds is fatuous and downright insulting, and can only be explained by gun-porn fantasies all too common these days.
.
———————————————————————————-
.
Hussein was a piker compared to U.S. government Lincoln.
Jay
December 19th, 2012
9:09 am
“Every 13 seconds an American gun owner uses his or her firearm in self-defense.”
Call it like it is? OK. That is pure BS, as is the rest of that argument.
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:09 am
kids are getting killed in chicago? didnt bookmans number one community organizer fix all the problems in chicago before he was elected dear leader? that was the only thing on his resume when he was elected. he failed at that too.
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
9:10 am
according to bookman kitchen knives should be banned in japan.
Only the ones designed for rapid-fire throwing and then banned only for people that fail to pass their training class on proper use of a kitchen knife.
Georgia
December 19th, 2012
9:10 am
Few commenters seem to read Jay’s articles, just like over at Kyle’s, and each day’s body of comments always include perpetual projections of self-fulfilling genius and Solomoronic Wisdom. Some commenters surely do have superior brains, wouldn’t you agree? My favorites are the ones who use aliases to advance their own thread taking both pro and con. Why is it funny? Because these menza members think it isn’t obvious. Their timing and syntax always gives them away. Too funny. Also, these same wordsmiths comment in groups with fellow wankers, each one supporting the legitimacy of the other’s stooge-splooge. Funny, funny stuff. Sure wish I knew how to draw an emoticon of a guy nursing a gas bubble. Cause that would be so cool, and really drive home my point real good, and then I could be Solomoronic too! Yes, this morning is a great example. Every day is a great example.
Morality?
December 19th, 2012
9:10 am
JAY – equally as bad as gun violence is DRUG violence – when is Jay going to call for control of DRUG violence?
Steve-USA
December 19th, 2012
9:10 am
“A much better impression than Adam Lanza did.”
Unless the armed guard is the one who goes off the rails and starts the shooting..
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:11 am
bookman says its bs so it must be. hahaha.
Gale
December 19th, 2012
9:11 am
I realize there are people that believe they need to be able to defend their home from armed invasion; or their country from whoever. We must, however, ensure those people have the discipline and sanity to know when it is necessary. I believe we could weed out the undisciplined and unstable. This would be proven by more than regular visits to a shooting range.
curious
December 19th, 2012
9:11 am
keith
“protecting our emassies is the job of the state dept. are you admitting that the obama admin has failed in that responsibility? you are correct if you are.”
The article I read in the AJC implied Congress refused funding for extra security.
Do we know which Congressmen led the fight to deny funding?
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:12 am
jay is yet to condemn obama for passing out guns to drug cartels. but he sure will condemn Americans for legally owning them. makes you wonder just whose side he is on.
Crazy Peeps
December 19th, 2012
9:14 am
“and the US government in the role of Adolph Hitler”
You mean the good ole US government? The one that sold stuff to the sandanistas? The one that used the first nuclear bomb (for what I deem a justifiable purpose, but many disagree)? The one that now uses drones killing our own citizens without any trial or judicial review? The one that has broadly expanded surveillance capabilities since 9/11, also without judicial review. The one that engages in war constantly since the 1950’s without any Congressionally required declaration of war?
That one, that good ole US of A? I mean, I love this country and all, but a healthy skepticism is warranted.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!
December 19th, 2012
9:14 am
Fox news ans conservative christians…there’s your sign
UNCLE SAMANTHA
December 19th, 2012
9:15 am
liberals say legalizing marijuana will cut down on crime and drug addiction
shouldn’t they be arguing for MORE GUNS to cut down on violence as well?
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
9:15 am
kids are getting killed in chicago?
And in Buffalo and Winslow and…
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:16 am
I am not equating the American govt to the nazi govt. I am equation your vision for the future of this country to nazi Germany. you advovate the same solutions to problems the nazis implemented.should we expect a different result? we already have seen obama supporters calling for the arrest of his opposition.
Granny Godzilla
December 19th, 2012
9:16 am
Tundra Dude
December 19th, 2012
9:08 am
Our Lady of Logan:
Think “Firearm Commission Store” – one stop shopping for
guns and ammo and finger prints and DNA and background checks.
Now yer messin’ with that free innerprize thingie…..
.
.
..
Not really, the current retailers should be given first “shot” at
being an authorized FBC.
Will the big bad guys go to the FBC?…yep some will.
Some won’t.
So we should do nothing?
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
December 19th, 2012
9:16 am
The “background ” check to buy a gun takes about 15mins. and is a joke , even if you lie on the application nothing ever happens and if you cant pass the fake background check you just go to the next gun show with cash and buy whatever you want .
Crazy Peeps
December 19th, 2012
9:16 am
The US government. Also the one that killed or impoverished most of the Indians. That good ole US government?
The US government that interned all the Japanese Americans. That good ole US government?
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
9:17 am
jay is yet to condemn obama for passing out guns to drug cartels.
Can you post a picture of that so I can hang it beside my picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 19th, 2012
9:17 am
Very great column Jay. The NRA has been trying to restrict liability issues for years through ALEC and other groups. It would be nice to remove these restrictions and allow standard reasonable runs regarding negligence, strict liability, etc to apply.
I also recommend we tax bullets and guns, and use the money to fund bulletproof vests, victim funds, safety training programs, security enhancements.
I would even allow assault style weapons to be used at gun ranges only on a rental basis in a secured setting so tthat they are completely controlled.
None of these will solve everything immediately. Its going to be a lenghty process.
Fred ™
December 19th, 2012
9:17 am
williebkind
December 19th, 2012
8:51 am
…….Which is indirectly banning drinking and that is the reality of today’s advocates for gun control–total ban………
++++++++++++++++
Willie brings up THE core argument (and fear) of gun owners and advocates. And it’s a very legitimate concern.
Does anyone *need* an assault rifle? Nope. But they WANT one. Why? Because by dammit, they are fun to shoot. I disagree with a total ban as Jay outlines. In other Countries, Netherlands for one, they have mandatory military service at 18 AND they take their FULLY AUTOMATIC assault weapons home with them and keep them in their closets. They don’t have the problems we have so obviously it’s not the assault weapon’s fault.
Also Willie brings up the ridiculously LOW BAC level needed to be “drunk.” It was the first thing I thought of when I read the blog title even before I read the article. I feel there needs to be some sort of gun control. I’m not decided what or how much, but comparing it to the hysteria induced draconian DUI standards isn’t the way to go. When i was in Germany you were old enough to order a beer if you were old enough to talk. They don’t have the teen drinking problems we have. Why? Mindset. You make the drinking age so high and to the adolescent mind drinking is a sign of “being grown up.” They get no ”practice” at it. Same with fire arms. We were taught to use and respect firearms. Doesn’t happen anymore. How many schools do you know of that even firing teams? My daughter’s school does. Can you imagine the uproar of a public school doing it?
I had one militant yuppie ask me one time if there were “guns in your house.” I told her it was none of her damn business and she got all offended. She also refused my offer of a sign for her front yard that proudly proclaimed there were no guns in HER house…………
I think hysteria wins this one though. The bar was set when this jackass shot 5 year old kids. I still won’t read about it.
barking frog
December 19th, 2012
9:19 am
Steve-USA
Unless the armed guard is the one who goes off the rails and starts the shooting..
…………………………………………………………………………….
And this happens frequently, right ?
JamVet
December 19th, 2012
9:19 am
I am not equating the American govt to the nazi govt.
Having read just a few of your recent screeds, I’m almost surprised.
The worst of you Republicans would have fit in very well with that German bunch…
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
December 19th, 2012
9:20 am
Seceed , Militia’s, Tax cheats , NRA , GOP …Patriots? really…
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:21 am
The NRA maintained a moment of silence out of respect for the deceased. To bad liberals did not share that respect. Instead they saw political opportunity and hope to exploit it by passing laws during the hysteria.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
December 19th, 2012
9:21 am
when someone is killed by a drunk driver in a cadillac escalade
SUE GM for the use of the weapon in the crime
GM should pay for all the deaths they have caused over the years
Joe Hussein Mama
December 19th, 2012
9:21 am
CFBFan — “Jay, I am neither a legal scholar nor an NRA member. With a plain reading of the 2nd amendment how do any gun laws not violate the 2nd amendment, specifically the phrase, “shall not be infringed”?
You must be unaware of the First Amendment, which begins, “Congress shall make no law . . . ”
Whereupon Congress makes laws that impact on those very rights, and the SCOTUS finds that they can legally co-exist.
If free speech, assembly, worship and the like are subject to time, manner and place restrictions — which the SCOTUS has *repeatedly* found, then please explain to me why the Second Amendment rates more delicate treatment?
Fred ™
December 19th, 2012
9:22 am
It is also historically foolish. Any implication that a Jewish community armed with pistols and hunting rifles could have fought off the Wehrmacht and SS that conquered most of Europe, rolling over the armies of France and other major countries, is absurd.
Really? You need to brush up on your history I think. Here, let me help you………..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising
Also, I can lend you a copy of Mila 18, an awesome historical fiction on the matter written by Leon Uris…………
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mila_18
ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT
December 19th, 2012
9:23 am
Why has the GOP not blamed OBAMA for all of the mass shootings? Because they are the promoters of the Gun lobby agenda……A holes…
keith
December 19th, 2012
9:23 am
funny someone would mention taxing guns to fund bulletproof vests, training and victim assistance. The NRA already does that. How many gun control groups do the same?
Theo
December 19th, 2012
9:23 am
The dem’s war on poverty hasn’t worked either. Should we ban the democratic party?
williebkind
December 19th, 2012
9:23 am
“Your apparent implication that the democratically elected US government can be equated to Saddam Hussein and US citizens to the Kurds is fatuous and downright insulting, and can only be explained by gun-porn fantasies all too common these days.”
Yeah was it not Egypt that has a democratically elected government. Which turned out to be in bed with terrorists. The same as liberals to me.
kayaker 71
December 19th, 2012
9:24 am
There is not one liberal politician, civil rights “leader” or elected city official who gives a tinkers damn about how many black people are dying in Chicago. Not only do they not care, they have ignored these events for so long in a state entirely run by Democrats that one would think that it just part of black culture to slaughter themselves as fast as they can and kill off some of their best and brightest. But let 20 white school children die, shot by a white perp and the whole country goes bonkers.
williebkind
December 19th, 2012
9:24 am
“The dem’s war on poverty hasn’t worked either. Should we ban the democratic party?”
YES!!!
skipper
December 19th, 2012
9:24 am
Many parts ofChicago, like it or not, have a deeply-rooted and violent culture. If one really tries to handle things, like was done in New York, then “police brutality” becomes the mantra. In reality, it has become a cluster….the second generation is being raised (actually, a misuse of the term) in this nightmare scenario and quite frankly, folks have become de-sensitized. Gang culture, crime, etc. is very common there..it is not in places like Newtown. Therefore, when an event such as this happens in Newtown, where the entire culture has largely a different set of values, then yes it will draw attention due to that one dynamic. Until leaders get serious about the violence AND CULTURE…NOT ALL GUN CULTURE but the general values (or lack thereof) held by many gangs, etc. in Chicago, the mess will continue. This is not to say that all chicogoans are like this. But the numbers blatantly suggest that (especially in the “troubled” areas) the entire modus-operendi (sp?) is totally different. Say what you want, but comparing Chicago and Newtown is not, and for the time being, will not (rightly or wrongly) be comparable. And no, it is not white vs. black…..it is sleepy town where this was not expected compared to cluster where it happens all the time. Maybe now, there will be some solutions for all.
TaxPayer
December 19th, 2012
9:25 am
The cons are determined to make certain that teh stoopid is adequately represented in any discussion regarding steps to take to reduce the slaughtering of the children of families with weapons of mass destruction such as assault rifles.
Fred ™
December 19th, 2012
9:26 am
Morality?
December 19th, 2012
9:10 am
JAY – equally as bad as gun violence is DRUG violence – when is Jay going to call for control of DRUG violence?
+++++++++++++++++
Is this what passes for reasoned debate to you? Please tell me how your post added to the discussion in any meaningful way? I think you should apologize to everyone who wasted 5 seconds of their life to read that nonsense, and then go take a class at your local Junior College on critical thinking. Here let me give you a start on the basics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 19th, 2012
9:26 am
Call It Like It Is
December 19th, 2012
9:07 am
What a crock of utter BS..I can tell you that there are about 3,000,000 home invasions a year…is that really enough to support 310,000,000 firearms?
I guess since all your marksman buddies and hunters only need their guns at the range or hunting lodge, why don’t they store them there and only be allowed a small allotment of bullets..I think that’s how the British do it. Exactly what good are handguns anyway? “handguns are made for killing, they ain’t no good for nothing else….”
For comedic value, can you please send me a link for the specific statistics you site? I’m very curious exactly how the data set was compiled…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 19th, 2012
9:26 am
Chris Rock
Wrong, he said they should cost $5,000 each. THAT would solve it.
Thulsa Doom
December 19th, 2012
9:27 am
I mentioned trigger locks last week as being a common sense, reasonable solution to some but not all cases of gun violence. It certainly would have stopped this kid. Matter of fact its the only thing I can think of that maybe would have stopped him.
Call It Like It Is
December 19th, 2012
9:27 am
“Call it like it is? OK. That is pure BS, as is the rest of that argument.”
Well Jay got me. He’s right Chicago is just plain heaven and no one and I mean no one gets killed up there. Just because it will take the average reader here about 15 seconds to look up my facts, Jay refutes it all by summing up his vast experience on the gun issue by stating BS. Well its hard to argue that so peace out kiddies.
Gale
December 19th, 2012
9:28 am
“fun to shoot” “gun porn” Part of the problem, but not the cause of mass murders. I enjoy shooter video games. But the idea of shooting a real person sickens me. Is it fun to shoot a virtual gun and blow zombies to chunks? Yep. I own a shotgun and it is fun to shoot it and watch clay targets blow to dust. But I do not consider an assault rifle to be a suitable home defense weapon. I think that is a poor excuse to own one. A good first step would be to get people to confess they want the gun because it is fun and get past the chest beating.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 19th, 2012
9:28 am
D.A.M.M., or Drunks Against Mad Mothers, disagrees with Jay.
Brosephus™
December 19th, 2012
9:29 am
Call It Like It Is @ 9:07
Don’t you think that the authors of “Stopping Power: Why 70 Million Americans Owns Guns” would appreciate a hat tip or something for the stats you posted from their book that was written in 1999? Think you could also update your stats considering those are 13 years old?
Thanks in advance
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 19th, 2012
9:29 am
JAY,
Why not simply allow the purchase of bullets (outlaw those for “mass murder” types of guns) to be strictly controlled…so you can have your gun (along with your Hummer and Corvette) but it can only ejaculate when appropriate…???
Tundra Dude
December 19th, 2012
9:30 am
So we should do nothing?
All together I think JB’s ideas look promising….but I doubt the political class will do much of anything…. until some of their kids are shot..
Recon 0311 2533
December 19th, 2012
9:30 am
Call it like it is, Jay calls your post BS but he engages in BS for a living. In Jay’s left wing world Free Speech and Free Expression must be protected regardless of how ugly it is or what cultural ramifications might result. In Jay’s world it’s lets fix those cultural issues by depriving the greater majority of the masses their freedom of lawful possession. That way we won’t have to deprive those who’ve contributed to the cultural ramifications of their right to continue to do so.
Thulsa Doom
December 19th, 2012
9:31 am
“Chris Rock thinks bullets should cost Five Dollars each. That would solve it, he says.”
Well that’s part of the problem. Taking advice from celebrities as if they have some sort of credibility. Jeez.
Making bullets $5 or $5,000 would do nothing more than penalize hunters and law abiding citizens who enjoy shooting at a range. Its not going to stop the batman movie mass killer or this kid who came from an upper middle class family.
kayaker 71
December 19th, 2012
9:31 am
Trigger locks are useless to protect against home invasion. By the time you find the key to unlock that trigger, you most likely will have several holes in you courtesy of the guy that kicked down your door.
guy
December 19th, 2012
9:32 am
It won’t be long before everyone is drunk,high,or stoned with no vehicles or guns and everyone will also be under complete government control. YES!!!
OBIWAN
December 19th, 2012
9:33 am
Confiscate all the cars, the cars are killing people….
Fred ™
December 19th, 2012
9:33 am
kayaker 71
December 19th, 2012
9:24 am
There is not one liberal politician, civil rights “leader” or elected city official who gives a tinkers damn about how many black people are dying in Chicago. Not only do they not care, they have ignored these events for so long in a state entirely run by Democrats that one would think that it just part of black culture to slaughter themselves as fast as they can and kill off some of their best and brightest. But let 20 white school children die, shot by a white perp and the whole country goes bonkers.
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Damn Kayaker. Good point. I was reading a story in the AJC last week about some little black kids here in Atlanta that were hit in their homes or yards by stray bullets. Not much mention was really ever made.
Of course the difference in nature and the total number at one time have to factor in as well. Wasn’t it Stalin who allegedly said, “One death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic?”
barking frog
December 19th, 2012
9:33 am
In Georgia guns are easier to get than fireworks.
http://www.safekids.org/in-your-area/safety-laws/fireworks-95.html?gclid=CKCGkqTXprQCFQWnnQod32MAvw to get than fireworks.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 19th, 2012
9:33 am
Brosephus™
December 19th, 2012
9:29 am
The BS meter is in the brown on those stats…the ability to actually collect that set of data is…well…highly suspect to say the least. How do we know all those women used a gun every several minutes or whatever to thwart a rape? How would you collect data that every 16 minutes some guy whacks an intruder or whatever? NRA poll? Did someone have access to all police records country wide for several years to combine with a uber-talented data geek armed with unlimited time and expense..?
Welcome to the Occupation
December 19th, 2012
9:34 am
All of this is well and good, but there’s just one little fly in the ointment.
To even THINK about moving on any of it, you’ll have to first go through the fascistic little thug lobby known as the NRA, National Child Slaughter Association.
Not that it shouldn’t be tried though.
It may already be too late, the epidemic already being so far advanced, to stop additional slaughters, including the seemingly inevitable mega-slaughter where the killings reach into the hundreds. But something has to be done. And by beginning now, perhaps in the next decades the tide can begin to be turned on this.
JamVet
December 19th, 2012
9:34 am
Should we ban the democratic party?
YES!!!
That is what fascists do.
Or in you emasculated case, want to do.
Too bad you bigots and ignoramuses (hat tip Clarence Darrow) in this country have been getting your asses kicked for the past fifty years though, huh?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 19th, 2012
9:34 am
Like the fact of taxes going up, I believe the right and gun huggers are starting to see that things are about to change.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
December 19th, 2012
9:34 am
kayaker
thats because liberals have accused others of racism for so long that they have become delusional to their own racist actions ………. they are like smokers telling kids not to smoke
Regnad Kcin
December 19th, 2012
9:34 am
I’m curious as to where this “the gubmint’s gonna take our guns” thing came from in the first place. Has their been gun confiscation in the past? What have been the most serious threats of gun confiscations historically?
Or is this one of those made-up issues designed to “gin up the base” or something?
Links appreciated – thanks in advance.
Thulsa Doom
December 19th, 2012
9:35 am
9:25 irony alert of the day.