GOP concocts imaginative scheme to steal elections
A Republican presidential candidate hasn’t carried Michigan since the first George Bush did it back in 1988, seven election cycles ago. And for the GOP, the future doesn’t look much brighter than the past. In the most recent election, Barack Obama carried the state and its 16 electoral votes by a comfortable margin of 9.5 percentage points.
So what’s a losing party to do? Field a better candidate? Develop a message that voters will find more compelling? Nah. Why do things the hard way when you can “fix” the system to your advantage legislatively?
As Reid Wilson explains in National Journal, Michigan Republicans are preparing to use their control of the state Legislature to change the way in which electoral votes are awarded in their state. Rather than use the traditional winner-take-all system, they propose to award electoral votes by congressional district.
What would that mean in practice? It would mean that in 2012, Obama would have won just seven of Michigan’s 16 electoral votes, even though he carried the state very easily. Mitt Romney would have won nine electoral votes even though he lost his native state convincingly.
How could that be? Because unlike state boundaries, boundaries of congressional districts can be gerrymandered to favor one party over another. In Michigan’s case, its congressional districts have been heavily gerrymandered to maximize GOP power and minimize Democratic power, and if you use those same boundaries to award electoral votes in a presidential race, you get that same distorted outcome.
And as Wilson points out, Michigan is far from the only state where Republicans have control of the legislative process and hope to implement such changes:
Pennsylvania: Obama won the Keystone State by 5 percentage points in 2012. Again, no GOP presidential candidate has carried the state since 1988. But under the altered rules, Pennsylvania would have produced 12 electoral votes for Romney in 2012, leaving only eight for Obama, even though the Democrat carried the state by almost 300,000 votes.
Wisconsin: Republicans haven’t carried Paul Ryan’s home state since 1984, and in 2012 Obama won its 10 electoral votes by a margin of 6.7 percentage points. But under the altered system, Obama would have had to split those 10 electoral votes evenly with the loser.
Florida: Obama has now carried the state twice in a row by narrow margins. But if presidential votes tracked congressional votes, Romney would have won 17 of Florida’s 29 electoral votes under the altered system, leaving only 12 for the candidate who actually won a majority of the state’s votes.
Ohio: Obama carried the state in both 2008 and 2012. But if the rules had been changed and presidential votes tracked congressional votes, he would have won only a third of Ohio’s 18 electoral votes, giving two-thirds to the candidate who lost the state.
Virginia: Obama won the state for the second time in a row in 2012, this time by four percentage points. But under the GOP plan, his likely reward for that victory would have been just five of the state’s 13 electoral college votes.
Under the Constitution, each state has the right to determine how its electoral votes are distributed, which would make it difficult to challenge such changes legally. In fact, Maine and Nebraska already use such a system, although neither state adopted it for partisan purposes.
In addition, the congressional maps in Maine and Nebraska are not heavily gerrymandered, which makes a big difference. In states with gerrymandered maps, such a system might be vulnerable to legal challenge on the grounds that politicians were consciously trying to discount the value of votes cast by certain U.S. citizens while enhancing the value of others.
Because as Wilson reports, the GOP is pretty clear about its intent:
“If you did the calculation, you’d see a massive shift of electoral votes in states that are blue and fully [in] red control,” said one senior Republican taking an active role in pushing the proposal. “There’s no kind of autopsy and outreach that can grab us those electoral votes that quickly.”
The proposals, the senior GOP official said, are likely to come up in each state’s legislative session in 2013. Bills have been drafted, and legislators are talking to party bosses to craft strategy. Saul Anuzis, the former chairman of the Michigan Republican Party, has briefed Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus and Chief of Staff Jeff Larson on his state’s proposal. The proposal “is not being met with the ‘We can’t do that’ answer. It’s being met with ‘I’ve already got a bill started,’ ” the official said.
I particularly admire the cynicism behind the admission that “there’s no kind of autopsy and outreach that can grab us those electoral votes that quickly.” In other words, why try to appeal to more voters or reassess your platform when, by legislative fiat, you can in effect all but steal electoral votes and perhaps the election itself?
The potential implications of such a change would be profound. For example, it would add another layer of incentive for politicians to gerrymander congressional districts. In addition, Ohio and other states would no longer be battleground states; instead, you’d have battleground districts, where political war would be waged intensely while surrounding congressional districts were ignored.
Overall, if the changes in question had been in place in all six states listed above, Romney probably would have won an additional 63 electoral votes. Add that to the 206 votes that he did win, and Romney has 269 votes, creating an electoral college tie with Obama.
That tie in turn would have thrown the race into the House of Representatives, where Republicans hold a narrow majority thanks in part to their success at gerrymandering.
Which means that Romney, having lost the popular vote by almost four percentage points and 4.7 million votes, would today be President-elect Romney.
– Jay Bookman
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675 comments Add your comment
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
They blather all day long about how we’re supposedly against voter IDs, but then when we ask them to put up or shut up, they offer a buck-seventy per head. Pa-freakin’-THETIC.
Like we discussed before, they bitch about not having IDs, they’ll bitch about the cost, and they’ll bitch about the “ID Czar”.
Some people are just bitches.
Jay
December 18th, 2012
12:16 pm
Of course Democrats gerrymander, Kimmer. When they were in control, Georgia Democrats under Roy Barnes produced some of the worst gerrymandering that I have ever seen.
But even they would not have imagined using that power to make changes such as this.
Mr. Holmes
December 18th, 2012
12:16 pm
Jay, I’d be curious to hear your colleague Mr. Wingfield’s take on this development. When I posed to him the question of whether the filibuster has been abused by this Senate and the immediate past Senate, his response was that the filibuster was created to allow one party to block actions it felt injurious to the country, and hence no, it had not in fact been abused since 2008.
Be curious to hear the spin on this one.
clem
December 18th, 2012
12:17 pm
no way around it, repubs basically poor losers.
Wix Wonkle
December 18th, 2012
12:18 pm
Uhhh…..your boy won another term….and we’re all screwed….
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:18 pm
R. Bagge — “Put yourself in the shoes of a farmer in Baker or Colquitt County who doesn’t drive and doesn’t have a birth certificate. Look into how much of a burden it is to get that ID. If Nathan Deal and our legislature and senate would spend the money to open bureaus, drop the cost of getting a birth certificate (WHY does it cost that much?!), and make every reasonably conceivable effort to put a valid ID in every citizen’s hands, then any Democrat in Georgia left complaining about it will get a raspberry from me. Y’all allocate the money to truly make it as close to no-cost as possible, and anybody who doesn’t take advantage of it loses my sympathy. Everybody wins!”
FWIW, Kamchak and I are referrring to a pretty comprehensive voter/worker/national ID card concept that I’ve been kicking around on Jay’s blog for a couple of years. Without going into too much detail, I would certainly make it no-cost and required (but it would be a Federal document, not state).
It certainly doesn’t enjoy overwhelming support here, but it seems to draw some interest from folks on both sides of the aisle, so it gets brought up from time to time in discussions like these.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
What’s important is convincing people in general not to believe and repeat patently ridiculous stuff like that without first trying to check it out.
drudge would then be out of bidness.
They BOTH suck
December 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
Down
The bigger question: Why do you think the outlet that provided that information knowingly lied? Was it to imply that the election was stolen from Romney?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
I won’t keep you people waiting. I was wrong. There, I said it. I hope that in some small way, I have helped brighten someone’s day by admitting that.
Didn’t have any outs left so had to do this or lose face.
You should check things out sometime before you just repeat what Sean Hannity told you.
Here is a news flash for you.
He is a liar.
moonbat betty
December 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
If we would just “chip” everyone at birth, then we wouldn’t need IDs anymore.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 18th, 2012
12:22 pm
The bigger question: Why do you think the outlet that provided that information knowingly lied? Was it to imply that the election was stolen from Romney?
Exactly. This has been written about many times many places.
You see they cant bring themselves to the point where it is their message that lost.
It has to be something else. Hence all the “They Cheated” “Takers, Moochers” arguments
Its better to have a bogeyman to pin it on.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:22 pm
M. Betty — “If we would just “chip” everyone at birth, then we wouldn’t need IDs anymore.”
And if your kids ran away from home, the vet could find ‘em and bring ‘em back.
Jay
December 18th, 2012
12:22 pm
BOTH, google “gilpin county voting age” and watch what comes up.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 18th, 2012
12:23 pm
moonbat betty – that might create a black market for cadaver chips.
Thulsa Doom
December 18th, 2012
12:23 pm
Sounds good to me. Looks like gerrymandering is going to come back and bite the Dims in the butt. HAHAHA. Someone said our democracy would suffer. Are we a democracy? Or a republic?
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
12:23 pm
Jay, I’d be curious to hear your colleague Mr. Wingfield’s take
After that abortion of a column he posted on the Newtown shooting, I’m not. In fact, I’m probably going to have to self-deport from posting at his site for a week or so, lest I do something stupid there.
suwanee dawg
December 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
Article should focus on Federal elections should be based on popular vote. Jay, please don’t think both sides do not push the edge. Practically all politicians have no moral fiber.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
gilpin county voting age
redstate.com, top of the list.
Mr. Holmes
December 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
I guess the spin would be that other states are perfectly free to make this change as well, and if the Democrats want to remain competitive nationally then they should do a better job at the state level. Until they do, the GOP will happily resort to outright thievery.
It’s not really surprising. These are desperate times for that portion of the electorate.
moonbat betty
December 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
JHM,
You could also have scanners at school entrances and if a chip is tagged as “lunatic”, it could send a shock of several hundred thousand volts.
Doggone/GA
December 18th, 2012
12:26 pm
“Are we a democracy? Or a republic?”
Yes
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 18th, 2012
12:26 pm
I’m probably going to have to self-deport from posting at his site for a week or so, lest I do something stupid there.
Always fun to read, though.
Take a bit of discipline not to respond.
They BOTH suck
December 18th, 2012
12:26 pm
Jay
Hilarious. I was going to do that, but was hoping Albany would tell us where he read or read the information.
Based on the dates of the articles “RedState” was already playing this up in September and it seems others ran with it after the election.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 18th, 2012
12:27 pm
“Takes”
Geez….
Thulsa Doom
December 18th, 2012
12:27 pm
“Of course Democrats gerrymander, Kimmer. When they were in control, Georgia Democrats under Roy Barnes produced some of the worst gerrymandering that I have ever seen.”
“But even they would not have imagined using that power to make changes such as this.”
Moral of the story.
Democrat gerrymandering = good
Republican gerrymandering = bad
indigo
December 18th, 2012
12:28 pm
This will probably wind up being a case of “what goes around comes around”.
Regardless of how much gerrymandering Republicans do, if their message doesn’t change, a majority of voters will still prefer Democrats. And, if Republican controlled State Houses can do this, so can Democratic ones.
This will be, at best for the Republicans, a band-aid quick fix which will only serve to alienate them even more from the majority American electorate.
They are simply setting themselves up for an eventual Democratic landslide of historical porportions.
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:29 pm
“Do you lack critical thinking skills altogether? Do you just shut off your BS detectors as long as you’re hearing what you want to hear?”
Not that is the definition of a liberal.
“What’s important is convincing people in general not to believe and repeat patently ridiculous stuff like that without first trying to check it out.”
Albany it is like when the 33,000 scientists said no man made global warming and 3000 said there was man made global warming. The liberals went with the 3000 because it was what they wanted to hear.
Aquagirl
December 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
What’s important is convincing people in general not to believe and repeat patently ridiculous stuff like that without first trying to check it out.
Which one of our residents said something to the effect of “like most people who read a story, I accepted it as true because it’s there?” Lawdy. Just because you’re an empty echo chamber doesn’t mean that’s the norm.
And kudos to Albany for his(?) simple admission of an oops. You gotta start somewhere and some folks would rather have a root canal without novocaine.
Jay
December 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
That’s the best you can do, Thulsa?
You’re not even capable of a slight pretense of rationality or logic?
DownInAlbany
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:29 pm
“Do you lack critical thinking skills altogether? Do you just shut off your BS detectors as long as you’re hearing what you want to hear?”
Not that is the definition of a liberal.
“What’s important is convincing people in general not to believe and repeat patently ridiculous stuff like that without first trying to check it out.”
Albany it is like when the 33,000 scientists said no man made global warming and 3000 said there was man made global warming. The liberals went with the 3000 because it was what they wanted to hear.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
M. Betty — “JHM, You could also have scanners at school entrances and if a chip is tagged as “lunatic”, it could send a shock of several hundred thousand volts.”
Like those ‘invisible fence’ deals? No thanks, I heard those suck.
Apparently, if your dog runs through the ‘fence’ in a hurry, the shock *prevents* them from coming back into your yard. The system can’t tell if the dog is coming or going.
They BOTH suck
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
“read or heard…………”
Either way, I don’t think he wants to divulge that information.
Jay
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
I’m reminded of that famous Lester Maddox quote about prisoners…
Mr. Holmes
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
After that abortion of a column he posted on the Newtown shooting, I’m not
He’s just parroting the party line. Most disappointing to me about that blog is the frequency with which it simply follows the prevailing echo-machine narrative. Yes, Jay reliably presents the view from the left, but much more often he accompanies the policy position with a fresh piece of evidence, a novel take on the events, etc. His counterpart on the right too often just takes whatever they’re saying at National Review and repackages it for this like but less-demanding audience.
But I think this is not Kyle’s day job, so I’ll cut him some slack.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
Tom
December 18th, 2012
11:22 am
Yet it’s the liberals who continue the fight to prevent any and all safeguards against voter fraud in this country. Why?…because it’s overwhelmingly Democrats that have and will continue to benefit from voter fraud.
Serious question — did you even bother to READ the article? Seriously….
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
12:31 pm
Uhhh…..your boy won another term….and we’re all screwed…
By all, I presume you mean the more rabid of you in the All White Party…
And yes you are finally getting your due.
Here’s to lots more of the same in the future…
Jay
December 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
Stepping out for a bit, everybody play nice.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
Albany it is like when the 33,000 scientists said no man made global warming and 3000 said there was man made global warming. The liberals went with the 3000 because it was what they wanted to hear.
Huh ? Where do you people get this stuff ?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
Williebkind — “Albany it is like when the 33,000 scientists said no man made global warming and 3000 said there was man made global warming.”
Yeah, my dad’s a scientist, but I don’t listen to what he says about global warming.
That’s because he’s a microbiologist and doesn’t know a thing about it. If he were a climatologist, that would be different.
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
12:33 pm
Albany it is like when the 33,000 scientists said no man made global warming and 3000 said there was man made global warming. The liberals went with the 3000 because it was what they wanted to hear.
Oh Lordy be.
willie just stepped in the stupid all over again…
Doggone/GA
December 18th, 2012
12:34 pm
“Apparently, if your dog runs through the ‘fence’ in a hurry, the shock *prevents* them from coming back into your yard. The system can’t tell if the dog is coming or going.”
And that’s not the only problem. They keep your dog IN, but they don’t keep other dogs OUT. And your dog is then vulnerable to being attacked.
The very BEST use for them is INSIDE a regular fence to keep diggers and jumpers from getting close enough to the fence to exercise their ingenuity to get out.
alittlecommonsense
December 18th, 2012
12:35 pm
I don’t really see a problem here. If this were enacted nationwide, then theoretically the presidency would pretty much follow the House of Representatives (ignoring the strength of individual candidates). Sometimes the house is controlled by Republicans, sometimes Democrats. I don’t see that it gives either party an unfair advantage overall. I think it would be better if every state did it that way instead of allowing Florida and Ohio to elect the POTUS.
They BOTH suck
December 18th, 2012
12:36 pm
Doggone
I read where That Black Guy sent you a post last night regarding dogs. Not sure if you saw it.
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
Now we have Ca, NY, Mi, Wi, Pa, Oh and a couple more who usually have more democrat voters than republican voters. At times the vote is close. So when a state chooses to give all electoral votes to who has the most votes really goes against what our forefathers intended. If the election was 51% to 49% then 49% of the voters have been disenfranchised. I hate the popular vote because we have morons like on the east coast, west coast and up north who vote and really do not know who is who or what is their platform. They just vote for the plantation. The EC by district is a grand idea and if the liberals can they will fight this to the death.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
Doggone — “The very BEST use for them is INSIDE a regular fence to keep diggers and jumpers from getting close enough to the fence to exercise their ingenuity to get out.”
Excellent idea! I shall inform my wife of this tonight; some of our previous dogs had been industrious and intrepid little spelunkers.
Doggone/GA
December 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
“I don’t really see a problem here.”
You don’t see a problem with a candidate getting FEWER EC votes when he WON a state…and the LOSER getting MORE? Really?
skipper
December 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
Jay,
The most blatant example I have ever seen was right here in Georgia, when a district (not the later one, but the one to which she was first elected) put Cynthia McKinney in office. There’s your sign! That was not a Democratic/Republican or any other statement. A loon is a loon no matter race/party, etc. This is why I am an independant…..staunchly so! That was the most snake looking district in history, Georgia or otherwise. Gerrymandering know no bounds.
DebbieDoRight - Conned And Confused
December 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
From now on I’m gonna be one of the Conned and not even bother to read the article, (since I can just listen to Faux News and they’ll tell me everything i need to know anyway).
So now what’s the title?
GOP concots imaginative scheme……..blah, blah, blah, blah
Now my reply (since I’ve glanced over the headline and didn’t comprehend what I read anyway):
BOOKMAN!!! You liberal slob!!! You are what’s wrong with AMERICA!! You commie Liberal Facists Obama LOVER!!!
I will NEVER buy the AJC (just read it on line every chance I get), again!!! This is nothing more than a left leaning RAG!!!
Commies!!
Liberals Hate Guns, the 2nd Ammendment, America and Baby Jesus!!!
Christian Conservatives HATE Liberals (but love God whom we’ve never seen)!!!
Commies!!!
God Bless.
markie mark
December 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
“That tie in turn would have thrown the race into the House of Representatives, where Republicans hold a narrow majority thanks in part to their success at gerrymandering.”
As usual, love the partisanship, Jay. Republicans invented gerrymandering, dontcha know, and elevated it to a new art form
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
it is like when the 33,000 scientists said no man made global warming
oh no you didn’t.
For those who are all “when the what, said what?”, and who have no known allergies to headache-inducing mid-90s html, I give you:
http://www.petitionproject.org/
(Try not to alarm anyone with the laughter certain to ensue.)
Doggone/GA
December 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
Both…yes, I saw it and I sent him some info via an email to Jay. Thanks though!
Thulsa Doom
December 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
“You’re not even capable of a slight pretense of rationality or logic?”- Jay
Jay,
It’s the first step in my conversion to liberalism.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
Williebkind — “So when a state chooses to give all electoral votes to who has the most votes really goes against what our forefathers intended.”
When you cast a vote for US Senator, you’re going ‘against what our forefathers intended,’ but I don’t see you bellyaching about that.
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
12:33 pm
No no no, I will not join you.
They BOTH suck
December 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
“I hate the popular vote because we have morons like on the east coast, west coast and up north who vote and really do not know who is who or what is their platform.”
As opposed to the informed opinion that you regularly post, right?
indigo
December 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
williebkind – 12:29
Posting what your Christian councillors tell you to post here isn’t doing you any favors.
Maybe, someday, you’ll get some education and learn to think for yourself.
They BOTH suck
December 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
Doggone
Your welcome. Glad you saw it.
Doggone/GA
December 18th, 2012
12:40 pm
“Excellent idea! I shall inform my wife of this tonight; some of our previous dogs had been industrious and intrepid little spelunkers”
But you DO have to be diligent about properly training them on the e-collars. If you just put it on them and throw them out in the yard, there’s a very good chance they’ll panic when they’re jolted because they won’t know why or how to avoid it.
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:40 pm
Joe Hussein Mama “When you cast a vote for US Senator, you’re going ‘against what our forefathers intended,’ but I don’t see you bellyaching about that.”
Educate me on that please. I do not get your point.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 18th, 2012
12:40 pm
DDR
A little early for tequila?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
DDR, your application to become one of the conned is hereby rejected. You forgot to present your photo ID.
liberal hack
December 18th, 2012
12:42 pm
As a conservative, I find what these states are doing as despicable. Really despicable. I also find it despicable that any party gerrymanders districts to cater to Dems or Repubs. I would like to see districts drawn up in equal size proportionate to population. I’d rather see us have serious discussion on ideas on moving this country in one direction. But I will never see that happen and I’m fairly young. African Americans will scream that there voice would be diminished if their districts are taken away with a fair population only criteria drawn up districts….
Doggone/GA
December 18th, 2012
12:42 pm
“Educate me on that please. I do not get your point.”
You could try doing something intelligent like reading the Constitution
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:43 pm
Indigo “Maybe, someday, you’ll get some education and learn to think for yourself.”
You are too funny!! Liberals are masters of incantations.
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
12:43 pm
When you cast a vote for US Senator, you’re going ‘against what our forefathers intended
Hell’s bells–when you regard an African American or a woman as your equal, you’re going against what our forefathers intended.
Just Saying..
December 18th, 2012
12:44 pm
Well hell yeah, since this didn’t work: Judson Phillips on Tea Party Nation has called for boycotting the Electoral College
Aquagirl
December 18th, 2012
12:45 pm
Huh ? Where do you people get this stuff ?
I’m betting our empty echo chamber is parroting their half-@$$ recollections of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition
Never mind those aren’t scientists who signed the petition, that the signatures are unverified, and the petition itself was presented in a misleading way–and that’s just the start of the crap contained in this “petition.” Our unquestioning cons will swallow every warm sticky drop. Why use your brain when it’s so easy to repeat others?
Thulsa Doom
December 18th, 2012
12:45 pm
“Posting what your Christian councillors tell you to post here isn’t doing you any favors.”
“Maybe, someday, you’ll get some education and learn to think for yourself.”- indigo
Indigo,
Perhaps he needs one of them “councillors” that made you such an Einstein.
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
12:45 pm
Educate me on that please. I do not get your point.
Originally, our Senators were not elected by direct vote, but rather by what the state legislators determined.
This ended with the passage of the 17th Amendment (which noted crazy person Zell Miller was last seen railing against, I believe.)
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
12:46 pm
No no no, I will not join you.
Fine by me, willie.
You Republicans and the equally intellectually challenged North Koreans make a lovely pair.
While the rest of the planet just laughs at you willfully stupid flat earthers and is leaving you farther and farther behind every year….
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:46 pm
williebkind — “Educate me on that please. I do not get your point.”
You bet.
Each state’s US Senators used to be chosen by the members of the state’s legislature. IOW, here in GA, the General Assembly would *pick* our US Senators. You wouldn’t get to vote for them.
This was all changed by the Seventeenth Amendment, which was ratified just a skosh under 100 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
If you look in the original Constitution, it’s made quite clear that citizens didn’t get to vote for their US Senators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_3:_Senate
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 18th, 2012
12:47 pm
You Republicans and the equally intellectually challenged North Koreans make a lovely pair.
They do it Gangnam style.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 18th, 2012
12:48 pm
sfd
Hell’s bells–when you regard an African American or a woman as your equal, you’re going against what our forefathers intended.
—————————————————————————————–
With some of the women posting I can kind of see why. j/k
Now some of the conned posting here I will reserve judgement
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
12:48 pm
Aquagirl @ 12.45, please–just link ‘em to the site itself, as I did. Don’t explain, let them wade in and see for themselves. I figure some survivor of that now-dead nutbag who originally set up the site is continuing to fund it, so we might as well let them hang themselves, so to speak.
Seriously, if you can spend three minutes there and not hear cuckoo clock noises and calliope music, you’re probably not reachable anyway.
DebbieDoRight - Conned And Confused
December 18th, 2012
12:49 pm
“I hate the popular vote because we have morons like on the east coast, west coast and up north who vote and really do not know who is who or what is their platform.”
Damn straight!!
Why just because those liberal commies pay MORE in taxes in those blue states, than we do in these God Fearing RED states…………and
Just because We RED staters have the most people on Welfare and Food Stamps……..and
Just because we Red Staters have the lowest graduation rate and the lowest IQ per capita…………..
That doesn’t mean squat!
It’s those east coast, west coast, northern MORONS ruining everything for this God Fearing Country!
Freaking Liberals!
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
12:50 pm
You forgot to present your photo ID.
NO FLIRTING.
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:52 pm
Doggone/GA – The 17th amendment was for electing senators but we are talking about POTUS. You liberals sure do deflect alot can you concentrate on the subject at hand. Ronald Regan said Liberals sure do know a lot about nothing.
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
December 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
These GOP Johnny Rebs are not going to stop until they start another Civil War.
Thulsa Doom
December 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
“Our unquestioning cons will swallow every warm sticky drop.”- Aquagirl
Larry Craig yes. Most of the rest of us no.
DebbieDoRight - Conned And Confused
December 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
Never mind those aren’t scientists who signed the petition, that the signatures are unverified
Liberal Lies. All they do is lie — Hey Liberal, spell baby Jesus! HA! I knew you couldn’t do it. Commie.
===========
DDR, your application to become one of the conned is hereby rejected. You forgot to present your photo ID.
I don’t need no freaking ID card! I got absentee ballots.
You liberals are something else………….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 18th, 2012
12:55 pm
Dang it Stands…. I was going to change her voter registration in the back seat of a Chevy Acorn.
Aquagirl
December 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
Aquagirl @ 12.45, please–just link ‘em to the site itself, as I did. Don’t explain, let them wade in and see for themselves.
I’ll concede you that point, but you really think they’ll READ that? Or make a quantum leap to “hmmm…an unsupported claim of approximately 9000 PhD’s in unknown fields and 21,000 random names…who are these people and why would I cite such crap?”
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
“It’s those east coast, west coast, northern MORONS ruining everything for this God Fearing Country!”
Well DDR if you will just take you plantation population up north, east coast or west coast watch the change take place. Its your people on the plantation why should I have to pay for them.
Regnad Kcin
December 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
” I hate the popular vote because we have morons like on the east coast, west coast and up north …”
Right, willie, everybody’s wrong but you.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
12:57 pm
williebkind — “Doggone/GA – The 17th amendment was for electing senators but we are talking about POTUS.”
My recollection is that you were upset about us going ‘against what our forefathers intended.’ Looks like direct election off US Senators falls into that category, doesn’t it?
“You liberals sure do deflect alot can you concentrate on the subject at hand. Ronald Regan said Liberals sure do know a lot about nothing.”
Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer’s. I am not so afflicted.
DebbieDoRight - Conned And Confused
December 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
While the rest of the planet just laughs at you willfully stupid flat earthers and is leaving you farther and farther behind every year….
We will NEVAH believe in no stinking global warming, equal pay for equal work, (unless it one of us), share equity, (we don’t even know what equity means), and clean energy.
All that stuff is just some made up crap that you Libbies got off of a Sci Trek episode.
FReaks!
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
”
12:57 pm
“Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer’s. I am not so afflicted.
Not yet!
Regnad Kcin
December 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
““Excellent idea! I shall inform my wife of this tonight; some of our previous dogs had been industrious and intrepid little spelunkers”
Some rebar and a shovel can solve your problem here…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
Back on topic: Fair Vote — Reform Options for the Electoral College
Brosephus™
December 18th, 2012
1:01 pm
right-wing outlets = reports that do not match up with the liberal talking points.
Nope. Right-wing outlets = doctored stories to push ideology as opposed to telling the whole story.
Case in point:
Boston.com: Electoral College vote affirms Obama re-election
http://www.boston.com/news/education/2012/12/17/electoral-college-vote-affirms-obama-election/aiIdyqnKDj09WoM540bTUL/story.html
GOPUSA.com: Electoral College casts votes today
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2012/12/17/electoral-college-casts-votes-today/
They use the same AP wire story, yet the GOPUSA website truncates the story, depriving it’s readers of the entire story. When you google the headlines, GOPUSA is the only news outlet with the headline they use. The other headline can be found, as typically it is, on many different news sites who use wirefeed stories.
————————-
They BOTH @ 12:14
Nunna Yobinnes
December 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
@Aquagirl – “Why is it that the people b!tching about dishonesty are always shamelessly plagiarizing?
Are they ashamed they can’t string together words and make their own phrases? Did they not learn representing someone else’s work as your own is stealing?
We should restrict their access to guns because something is clearly wrong in their heads.”
What was Biden’s excuse?
DebbieDoRight - Conned And Confused
December 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
Well DDR if you will just take you plantation population up north, east coast or west coast watch the change take place. Its your people on the plantation why should I have to pay for them.
There are still PEOPLE on plantations? Wow!! See what ya learn from our God Fearing, Loving on Mankind, Conned!?
Thank you willhebe! You’re going places! That there comment you made will take you far in life! You’re on your way man, you’re on your way!
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
“These GOP Johnny Rebs are not going to stop until they start another Civil War.”
The democrats started the first one dont we get equal opportunity?
Logical Dude
December 18th, 2012
1:04 pm
“You Republicans and the equally intellectually challenged North Koreans make a lovely pair.
They do it Gangnam style.”
Heyyyyyy, Pretty lady!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 18th, 2012
1:05 pm
But if its on the internet or in a news article, it’s true.
So says Senior Digits and the conned.
williebkind
December 18th, 2012
1:05 pm
“There are still PEOPLE on plantations? Wow!! See what ya learn from our God Fearing, Loving on Mankind, Conned!?”
This is exactly my point, she has no clue. But she rants like she is knows something.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
1:06 pm
williebkind — “Not yet!”
Dude, are you wishing bad things on me?
Mike Fitzgerald
December 18th, 2012
1:07 pm
I believe jerrymandering, money in politics, and the fact that we have a President at all instead of a Prime Minister are the three main causes of dysfunction in our electoral system.
I believe there is a consensus solution to replacing the electoral college amongst political science geeks. Simply get a group of states that posess a majority of the electoral votes to agree to give all of their electoral votes to the candidate that wins a plurality of the popular vote.
I think the Iowa system is the best protection devised to date to prevent Gerrymandering. Read about it here: http://www.legis.state.ia.us/Central/LSB/Guides/redist.htm
I don’t believe there is a good scheme to completely remove money from politics, but I wonder if there is a well thought out model bill somewhere at a think tank or in a Congressman’s briefcase that could prevent another massacre of grade schoolers? I’m earnestly looking for one.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 18th, 2012
1:07 pm
R. Kcin — “Some rebar and a shovel can solve your problem here…”
We used to use railroad ties, but they kill the grass and leave an ugly bare strip right by the fence line.
DebbieDoRight - Conned And Confused
December 18th, 2012
1:07 pm
They use the same AP wire story, yet the GOPUSA website truncates the story, depriving it’s readers of the entire story
They do that FOR us liberal commie!!
They do that to HELP us!
Do you think we understand all those big liberal words like “electoral college” and “truncate”? We don’t like reading all those big words anyway — that’s why we hardly EVER read any of the whole articles when you liberal scum post those links for us!
Do you honestly believe that we want to LEARN something or gain KNOWLEDGE? All the knowledge we need is coming out of Fox News and Richard Murdoch.
Get the heck outta here with that liberal talking points garbage boy blunder!