Will our anger be buried alongside Newtown’s dead?

Connecticut_School_Sh_inev_t607

A flag flies at half mast on a dark, wintry night in Newtown, Conn. This week, the townspeople will bury their dead, including the bodies of 20 young first-graders murdered by an assailant who broke into their school. Coffin manufacturers have donated the 20 small caskets that will be needed in the burials. (AP)

bush

The Bushmaster .223, the weapon used by Adam Lanza to kill 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Each victim had been shot three to 11 times, according to the coroner's report. Lanza is reported to have brought multiple 30-round magazines to the school, and at the time of his death at his own hand still possessed hundreds of rounds of ammunition.


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ap0qw.St.58

Robbie Parker, the father of six-year-old Emilie, has had to explain her death to her two siblings, ages 3 and 4. "They seem to get the fact that they have somebody they're going to miss very much," he said.

An excerpt from President Barack Obama’s message to Newtown and the nation, delivered at a prayer vigil Sunday night (entire text available here):

“Someone once described the joy and anxiety of parenthood as the equivalent of having your heart outside of your body all the time, walking around. With their very first cry, this most precious, vital part of ourselves — our child — is suddenly exposed to the world, to possible mishap or malice. And every parent knows there is nothing we will not do to shield our children from harm.

And yet, we also know that with that child’s very first step, and each step after that, they are separating from us; that we won’t — that we can’t always be there for them. They’ll suffer sickness and setbacks and broken hearts and disappointments. And we learn that our most important job is to give them what they need to become self-reliant and capable and resilient, ready to face the world without fear.

And we know we can’t do this by ourselves. It comes as a shock at a certain point where you realize, no matter how much you love these kids, you can’t do it by yourself. That this job of keeping our children safe, and teaching them well, is something we can only do together, with the help of friends and neighbors, the help of a community, and the help of a nation. And in that way, we come to realize that we bear a responsibility for every child because we’re counting on everybody else to help look after ours; that we’re all parents; that they’re all our children.

This is our first task — caring for our children. It’s our first job. If we don’t get that right, we don’t get anything right. That’s how, as a society, we will be judged.

And by that measure, can we truly say, as a nation, that we are meeting our obligations? Can we honestly say that we’re doing enough to keep our children — all of them — safe from harm? Can we claim, as a nation, that we’re all together there, letting them know that they are loved, and teaching them to love in return? Can we say that we’re truly doing enough to give all the children of this country the chance they deserve to live out their lives in happiness and with purpose?”

I’ve been reflecting on this the last few days, and if we’re honest with ourselves, the answer is no.”


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The answer is no.

ap-connecticut-school-shooting_003-x-large-2


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– Jay Bookman

977 comments Add your comment

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
7:46 am

N-GA (economic base jumper)

December 17th, 2012
7:47 am

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
7:51 am

jim terwlilger

December 17th, 2012
7:53 am

How many times have we seen that assault rifle carried by police at peaceful protests…

Van Jones

December 17th, 2012
7:55 am

Major life events always cause us to reevaluate what we are doing. I just hope we can do it with intelligence and common sense rather than a feel-good, knee-jerk reaction.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
7:56 am

sfd, I’ve subbed out my original image for the one you posted. Thanks.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and got the scars to priove it!

December 17th, 2012
7:56 am

I have already donated to Mayors against Illegal Guns and written to the White house and Congress. I’m going to do all I can to outlaw assault weapons like the one above.
———————-

But as an aside, I also wrote to Newtown this morning when I read that some were taking down their decorations of the season because of this tragedy. I said they shouldn’t take them down. They should cover the town in lights. These kids loved this time of the year. They were 6 and 7 years old and they still believed. As a remembrance to them, the town should be bathed in light…and if left up to me…left on all year. If you think so too, then write to them too.

http://www.newtown-ct.gov/Public_Documents/index

Contact them.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
7:57 am

Can we honestly say that we’re doing enough to keep our children — all of them — safe from harm?

I’ll say no, but then again, it’s my belief that we won’t be able to do enough to keep them all from harm. That’s one of the issues of living in a very open society. At some point, we need to be honest with ourselves in this aspect. If we can’t be honest with ourselves, how can we take an honest and open look at these situations to determine how to lessen their impact?

Grasshopper

December 17th, 2012
7:57 am

A sad day for these victims and their families.

And more fodder for the ‘grief porn’ industry.

Stop sensationalizing these crimes. Enough with the prime time Presidential speeches and wall-to-wall coverage with every ‘expert’ and tangential witness offering up their sorrow and shock. Stop giving the psychos what they want.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
7:58 am

I am shocked, shocked, to learn that Dancin’ Dave Gregory continues to fluff the NRA.

Gregory’s suggestion that “we’ve seen declining support since 1990 for stricter gun control measures” relies on flawed polling data that only asks generic questions about public support for restrictions on firearms. When the public is asked about specific gun violence prevention proposals, large majorities support enacting some further restrictions. An August 9 CNN poll found that 96 percent of Americans support requiring a background check for every gun purchase. The same poll found that nearly three-in-five respondents favored banning semi-automatic assault weapons and high-capacity magazines containing more than 10 bullets, like those used in the July 20 mass shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. The CNN poll also found that 76 percent of Americans favored requiring individuals to register their weapons with local law enforcement and 91 percent favored preventing felons and people with mental health problems from owning guns.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
7:59 am

Thank you, Jay.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 17th, 2012
7:59 am

.

jim terwlilger

December 17th, 2012
7:53 am

How many times have we seen that assault rifle carried by police at peaceful protests…
.
———————————————————————————————————————————————–
.
but…but…………………………….
.
lol.
.
———————————————————————————————————————————————–
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“I own the world’s 7th largest army……….” Mayor Mike Bloomberg, soda/gun-ban master and Jon Corzine confidant.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:00 am

“sfd, I’ve subbed out my original image for the one you posted. Thanks”

And do women get issued “man cards” too? Or is that image only to point out the such atrocities are virtually ALWAYS committed by MEN?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:02 am

HTL

December 17th, 2012
8:03 am

Time to call the owners of those semi-autos what they are, really bad shots or cowards.
Bad shots can be fixed with practice so they will not need them and the others should nothave them.
They are just trouble.

Joshua_Linskey

December 17th, 2012
8:03 am

I think Van Jones’ comment is the only appropriate comment I have read to date.

It is comical how everyone has solutions. How pompous at a time such as this, to assume you have an answer or solution.

Everyone should simply shut up. This a time when “less” is definitely more when it comes to your political posturing and your countless opinions. I say this with all due respect, all of you who have slobbered your opinions, you’re all “a” holes.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:04 am

And do women get issued “man cards” too?

No. Women get these.

Madmax

December 17th, 2012
8:04 am

We’ve cheapened life and destroyed the moral backbone of this nation and now we wring our hands and wail. We get what we sow. We fight for the right to kill babies but then say how did this happen. We buy our kids all kinds of electronic games and let them spend hours a day in front of their screens blowing and shooting people up and then when they turn we say how did this happen. We put the highest quality gore and violence in our theaters and on our tv’s and send our kids to see this and when they break we say how did this happen. Maybe if as a nation, we hadn’t been so bent on satisfying our own desires and had spent more time raising our kids and controlling what we could or could not do/watch/particiate in, we wouldn’t be talking about this today.

We need to ban a lot more than guns.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
8:06 am

An assault rifle with their rapid fire capability and large magazines are weapons of mass destruction.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:06 am

We fight for the right to kill babies

heh. What’d I tell ya, DGA?

Whatever

December 17th, 2012
8:06 am

HTL,

For real? I grew up with guns my entire life and own several semi-autos. I shoot really well and I do not own guns to fell more like a man. It’s just a fun hobby.

You will not win any arguments by putting down the large majority of gun owners. You may want to try and make friends across the isle instead of enemies.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
8:07 am

Thanks for sharing your opinion, Joshua.

Skip

December 17th, 2012
8:07 am

Your child’s life or the right to fire 30 rounds in 2 seconds, you choose.

vietnam vet

December 17th, 2012
8:08 am

The “Right to Bear Arms” is not more important than a child’s right to
live. Do something to protect our children’s lives. Please call or write your Congressman today.

Whatever

December 17th, 2012
8:08 am

Taxpayer,

I Ruger Mini-14 will shoot the same round at the same rate as a Bushmaster but nobody wants to ban it.

I know there is disagreement on this but assault rifles that are semi-auto are no different that most hunting rifles. They just look military.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:08 am

“We’ve cheapened life and destroyed the moral backbone of this nation ”

Baloney. You are blaming millions of people for the act of ONE OF THEM. That one person had mental problems and took them out on the innocent is no reflection on the millions and millions of us that DID NOT.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:09 am

Ruger Mini-14 will shoot the same round at the same rate

but do you get a Man Card with it?

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:10 am

“Do something to protect our children’s lives”

Do WHAT? Or are you of the “somebody should do something” school of problem solving?

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:10 am

“I know there is disagreement on this but assault rifles that are semi-auto are no different that most hunting rifles. They just look military.”

True, to some extent. Hunting rifles don’t have 30-round clips, however. Furthermore, it is precisely that military look that these mass killers find so appealing, for reasons reflected in the Bushmaster ad above.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:10 am

Let’s melt down the Bushmaster web site. It’s the least we can do.

Whatever

December 17th, 2012
8:11 am

Murders in US (2009) – About 9,500.
Drunk driving deaths US (2009) – 10,700.

I say we ban alcohol while we are at it.

Atlas Shrugging

December 17th, 2012
8:11 am

A resounding NO! All you have to do to do to validate my NO is read your hate blog today and everyday.

fedup

December 17th, 2012
8:11 am

If NRA wanted to they can come up with a solution to this senseless killings. But they will not. It is free enterprise baby. Profits over life.

kayaker 71

December 17th, 2012
8:11 am

We continue to manufacture countless video games that glorify shooting someone’s head off, continue to take away Christian teachings of love and respect and seem think that guns are the real problem. That 223 didn’t shoot anyone on it’s own. Neither does the automobile kill thousands every year. Those little children are dead because some kook took them out. Some crazy kid who is a product of our present day culture that states that the norm is somewhere between free love and killing little kids. We reap what we sow.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and got the scars to priove it!

December 17th, 2012
8:11 am

Doggone,
Do you have stock in Arms Manufacturing Companies, or something?

Steve

December 17th, 2012
8:11 am

Again, progressives keep pushing for gun control and it takes multiple horrific tragedies to wake everyone up to the fact that we are doing something terribly wrong here in this country. Yes we need gun control laws ramped up, but that’s only the beginning. We need a cultural shift AWAY from violence. Period.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
8:12 am

How many of those children would have survived if they had only been shot once?

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
8:13 am

Some just can’t see the big picture about life, I guess…

Steve

December 17th, 2012
8:13 am

Kayaker – these kids were shot THREE TO TEN TIMES EACH. If this guy had run in wielding knives, he would have committed far less carnage.

Nobody needs assault weapons. Period.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:13 am

“If NRA wanted to they can come up with a solution to this senseless killings”

No they can’t. If even psychiatrists cannot identify them in advance, why would you think the NRA could?

Whatever

December 17th, 2012
8:14 am

Jay,

I hear you and understand where you are coming from. However, the Ruger Mini-14 will take a 30-round clip.

I find the Bushmaster type gun appealing because it’s easy to customize and very fun to shoot.

My fear is that we live in a country where people will give up freedom to feel more secure. Let’s take the Bill of Rights to 9 rights instead of 10. Then to 8 instead of 9. Just to feel safer. That’s what concerns me in all this.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:15 am

“Do you have stock in Arms Manufacturing Companies, or something?”

No. Nor do I own any guns

Whatever

December 17th, 2012
8:15 am

Steve,

What is the definition of an assault weapon. Is it based on function or look?

[...] Hook shooting: Obama vows to use power of presidency to thwart …Christian Science MonitorAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -BBC News -New York Times (blog)all 32,703 news articles » VN:F [...]

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:15 am

Whatever, there is no constitutional right to possess a Bushmaster.

tiger7184

December 17th, 2012
8:16 am

And throughout the land there was great sadness. There was wailing,
wringing of hands and calls for action from the huddled masses. But on
the third day the great NRA proclaimed that “guns don’t kill people”
and the great leaders chimed in that “now is not the time” and the gun
manufacturers said that “we need more guns, not less” and the people
were relieved and went on about their business as if nothing had
happened. The end.

[...] Hook shooting: Obama vows to use power of presidency to thwart …Christian Science MonitorAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -BBC News -New York Times (blog)all 32,985 news [...]

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:17 am

“We continue to manufacture countless video games that glorify shooting someone’s head off, continue to take away Christian teachings of love and respect and seem think that guns are the real problem. That 223 didn’t shoot anyone on it’s own.

Guns don’t kill people. Video games kill people.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
8:17 am

“Will our anger be buried alongside Newtown’s dead?”

Mine will not.

Please God, let America stay angry too.

.
.
.
A special thank you to Toddler G, a sweet silly two-year-old boy who kept our family focused on what’s good this weekend. We really needed it.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
8:17 am

We will always have the freedom to own guns. But not nuclear bombs, not rocket launchers, not machine guns and obviously not assault style weapons that shoot nearly as rapidly as machine guns.

We have limitations on the 1st amendment, and common sense only dictates that we’d have the same around the 2nd. But then again, common sense seems to allude so many of you Confederates.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
8:19 am

Tiger…I couldn’t have said it better.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
8:19 am

“can we say we’re truly doing enough” “no”

I’m pleased to hear Obama say that.

So, for starters, he can bring home all our soldiers now fighting that useless war in Afghanistan and post them at schools around the country.
After all “there is nothing we will not do to shield our children from harm”. And, at least two armed combat soldiers at every school would make even the most deranged gunman think twice about killin little children.

I already know Republican promises mean little or nothing. Now is the time to see if Obama’s statements about our children’s safety are real or just political lip service.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:20 am

the great leaders chimed in that “now is not the time”

“We don’t want to alienate red state voters who already hate us!”

–Rahm Emmanuel

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
8:21 am

This is all too heartbreaking for words.

Though that will not deter plenty of the usual small minded, compassionless suspects here.

Have a good day everyone, and be most excellent to each other and the people in your lives…

[...] comforts town, vows to work to prevent more mass …Boston.comChristian Science Monitor -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -BBC Newsall 32,524 news articles » [...]

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:22 am

As long as I’m spreading Christmas cheer:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/12/making-gun-control-happen.html

Yesterday, I went to pick up my son from school and on the way home, we passed the White House. The flag on the roof was fluttering at half-mast, like other flags throughout the city, and the country, and at American bases and embassies around the world. But those flags will only fly at half-mast until Tuesday, at which point they will be raised once more—a symbolic indication that after we mourn those who have died too soon, we must eventually move on. The gun lobby is hunkered down, confident that the profound sense of urgency many of us feel right now will diminish, and we will soon return to our familiar, dystopian status quo. All they need to do is wait out the furor, as they have so many times before.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:23 am

“Drunk driving deaths US (2009) – 10,700.

I say we ban alcohol while we are at it.

And those numbers were considerably higher until we as a society decided that the death toll was unacceptable, and we changed laws, regulations, enforcement and cultural attitudes as a result. In fact, 30 years ago, drunk driving fatalities totaled 21,113.

In other words, by taking action, we have cut that death toll in half by taking action against a problem that many once thought was hopeless. That’s a possible model for us on this current problem.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
8:23 am

Have a good day everyone, and be most excellent to each other and the people in your lives…

What Jammie said. I’m outa here for awhile as well.

Joshua_Linskey

December 17th, 2012
8:24 am

Dear Tax Payer,
You’re an idiot and obviously one of the “a” holes. That is not an opinion, it’s an observation, hence the reason I declared you an idiot.

kayaker 71

December 17th, 2012
8:24 am

If the anti gun lobby would take away semi-automatic assault weapons and leave it at that, lots of people would be willing to talk. However, they are intent in making the armed criminal the only one with a weapon. Close to 80M Americans own guns in this country. Remember when Sam Nunn got on the anti-gun band wagon? Bumper stickers suddenly appeared…. “Sam Nunn wants your gun”. He didn’t remain Senator from GA very long after that. This is a political hot potato that no one wants to face. They tip toe around the issue but elected politicians, especially from red states, won’t touch it. BTW, those states with the most stringent gun laws seem to have the most gun violence.

Who knew?

December 17th, 2012
8:25 am

“Whatever, there is no constitutional right to possess a Bushmaster.”

Want to go into greater detail there Jay or just broad stroke it as usual Jay?

[...] do more to protect childrenLos Angeles TimesChristian Science Monitor -NBC New York -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 32,546 news articles » VN:F [1.9.8_1114]please wait…Rating: 0.0/10 (0 votes [...]

Peadawg

December 17th, 2012
8:27 am

” I’m going to do all I can to outlaw assault weapons like the one above.”

And what’s that going to do to keep them off the street? Outlawing heroin, cocaine, meth, weed, etc. has worked sooo well.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
8:27 am

There is no single fix all response nor will it be an overnight fix. But it is time we address this issue and find the balance between pure home protection (with adequate safety), hunters, law enforcement and removal of assault type weapons from responsible society. And also dealing with mental illness.

Cherokee

December 17th, 2012
8:27 am

sfd – exactly…

Does anyone actually think that dems are going to win over the NRA wackos by caving on this issue?

Not a chance….

Class of '98

December 17th, 2012
8:27 am

“I’ve been reflecting on this the last few days, and if we’re honest with ourselves, the answer is no.”

I guess you didn’t “reflect” on this enough to come up with a solution, because you did not provide one.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
8:28 am

We continue to manufacture countless video games that glorify shooting someone’s head off

Hate the free market? If there were not a demand for the product, it wouldn’t be made and sold as much as it is. It’s the same way with guns. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t mandate any American to purchase a single gun, yet millions are sold simply because manufacturers are filling a demand for the product.

Whatever

December 17th, 2012
8:28 am

Jay,

I’m not saying there is a right to own a Bushmaster. I’m saying our society is moving towards giving up freedoms to feel safer in many areas. Not just guns. That’s disheartening.

Yes, drunk driving deaths were higher in the past but they are still really high. No one here even discusses it. It’s like it doesn’t even exist.

Let’s care about the 30 who die tragically at once but let’s also care about the ones who die tragically by themselves in a ditch each day.

xxx

December 17th, 2012
8:29 am

Why no condemnation of the mother who allowed her brain damaged psycopath to roam free amongst us? Becasue that would make a human responsible and we can’t have anyone donig that can we?

Skeeter

December 17th, 2012
8:29 am

My opinion? The problem isn’t with gun control (or the lack thereof). The problem is with how we, as Americans, dole out the consequences of actions such as this. If there was an enforced law that quickly executed those who carry out such unthinkable acts I don’t think we would be faced with this tragedy today. I don’t think there are as many people that are “lunatics” as we would be led to believe I think they have just learned there will be a very small price to pay for their “claim to fame”. No trial by jury (it’s already been proven they committed the crime-without question). No costly upkeep or “rehabilitation”. This should not be a debate on the right to keep and bear arms this should be a debate on how we are treating the consequences of those who choose to take advantage of that right. Most people who are mentally challenged still understand this basic principal…I think they would get this concept as well.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
8:29 am

What’s missing here? A mentally ill child was able to access weapons of mass destruction. Ironically, the mother bought these weapons because she feared that in the future there would be kaos because of economic conditions. In the short term, you don’t have have these types of weapons around when you know that your child has a mental disability or this will be happening again and again…

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
8:30 am

“Guns don’t kill people. Video games kill people.”

Just ask Hillary Clinton. She thinks so.

Common Sense

December 17th, 2012
8:30 am

Leftist love tradegies. Like a ban on all weapons would stop these types of events. Suddenly the physcos would be normal and there would be peace in the world.
@jay
The killer used two 9mm handguns. the rifle was found in the car. Honest mistake or agenda?

pcBobby

December 17th, 2012
8:32 am

Proactive mental health care NOW! What does that mean? Courts, law enforcement and the medical community need to RESPONSIBLY share records. We NEED to have a smart, centralized way to share information between these agencies. I am Libertarian, BTW — so I say that I am sorry to my naive Libertarian brethren and paranoid conspiracy theorists. Furthermore, those closest to these so-called responsible gun owners with mentally ill kids.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:33 am

“The killer used two 9mm handguns. the rifle was found in the car. Honest mistake or agenda?

Incorrect, Common Sense. Every person killed at the school was shot multiple times with the Bushmaster. The only time Lanza fired a pistol was to kill himself.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
8:34 am

Common Sense

December 17th, 2012
8:30 am

Leftist love tradegies.
.
.
.
.and SOME so called conservatives are simply idiots.

fedup

December 17th, 2012
8:35 am

You don’t need a professional to identify killers. I know one who close people know is capable of this kind of carnage. Dick Cheney is one of them. Do not need a college education to figure that one out. Just ask the Iraqs about that.

[...] do more to protect childrenLos Angeles TimesChristian Science Monitor -NBC New York -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 32,546 news articles » Share and [...]

Morality?

December 17th, 2012
8:35 am

Last night Obama used a tragedy to push the camel’s nos under the tent.

Recon 0311 2533

December 17th, 2012
8:35 am

“Furthermore, it is precisely that military look that these mass killers find so appealing, for reasons reflected in the Bushmaster ad above.”

It’s not the look of a firearm that they find appealing, it’s the killing that they find appealing. After immersing themselves in violent images provided to them by the media, movies, television or violent video games they go and act out their twisted fantasy.

[...] comforts town, vows to work to prevent more mass …Boston.comChristian Science Monitor -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -BBC Newsall 32,524 news articles » VN:F [1.9.8_1114]please wait…Rating: [...]

indigo

December 17th, 2012
8:36 am

Brosephus – 8:28

There’s quite a demand in America for herion, cocaine, meth and many other drugs.

Since you don’t “hate the free market”, should we be “filling a demand” by legally selling these “products”?

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
8:37 am

The killer used two 9mm handguns. the rifle was found in the car. Honest mistake or agenda?

Somebody obviously did not see the report given by the medical examiner. With the 24 hour coverage, you would think such a feat was virtually impossible.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
8:37 am

Let's get real..

December 17th, 2012
8:37 am

I’ve been reading this blog for a very long time, never posted until today. For the most part, I think y’all are a well meaning and patriotic bunch but after Sandy Hook, Aurora and way too many others, it’s time to get real about gun control. We all dance around the issue but the true question is, how many times has a gun been used to protect a home versus how many times instead has that gun accidentally shot a loved one instead? All you proud Americans, can you really stand up and say, yes I want my guns so someone else can die? Can you really say, what we need are more guns when we’re already in fear of our children going to school, or us so-called grownups going shopping?
Open your eyes, use your head, think! Push aside your politics for once and see what’s happening!

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:38 am

“Since you don’t “hate the free market”, should we be “filling a demand” by legally selling these “products”?”

Why not? We can legally buy alcohol. It’s ok to slowly kill yourself with drink, but using drugs will get you a jail sentence.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
8:39 am

“Open your eyes, use your head, think! Push aside your politics for once and see what’s happening!”

What’s happening is the millions of people own guns responsibly and those guns don’t kill anyone.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:40 am

“It’s not the look of a firearm that they find appealing, it’s the killing that they find appealing.

No, Recon. It’s the look. The shooter at the Oregon mall used an AR-15, not a hunting rifle. The shooter in Connecticut used an AR-15, not a hunting rifle. The shooter in Aurora, Colo, used an AR-15 with a 100-round magazine, not a hunting rifle. A big part of the whole romantic BS they wrap themselves inside involves the fantasy that they are bad asses to be reckoned with, and the look and image of these weapons plays to that directly.

Again, look at the Bushmaster ad. What are they selling?

Functionality?

Or image?

Morality?

December 17th, 2012
8:41 am

The Repubs have agreed to raise taxes on the 1% …….. now Obama and Nanny Peolisi – it’s your turn – under funded entitlements got us here and cutting entitlements is mandatory to get up out of this mess. The ball is in your court Obama. It’s TIME!

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
8:42 am

Since you don’t “hate the free market”, should we be “filling a demand” by legally selling these “products”?

We already legally dispense methadone. We use morphine legally. I don’t have a personal opinion on whether drugs should be legalized or not. It’s simply my job to enforce the law, whatever it states.

Seems as though the drug dealers are doing what legal businesses do, which is meet the demand for a product with ample supply. I’ve participated in my share of drug seizures, and as long as they remain illegal, I will continue to focus on catching as much as possible and keep them from entering the US. Instead of focusing on making drugs legal, why not focus on curtailing the demand for the drugs? Knock out the demand, and the idea of making them illegal is irrelevant and useless.

@indigo

December 17th, 2012
8:43 am

Yes, absolutely. Eliminate the black market in favor of the free market and help those users when they inevitably come around. The laws still apply concerning theft and/or violence. Does that overwhelm your Statist brain?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
8:43 am

Yes, lets make guns illegal since criminals are so good at obeying the law.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
8:47 am

What’s happening is that last year in most of our Western counterpart nations, roughly 50 people died via gun violence. Here, it was 10,728.

So – perhaps, must PERHAPS, tell the gun industry funded NRA lobby to go screw themselves and we look at what is working elsewhere and move into the 21st century here and make some real changes. Wouldn’t that be novel?

Mick

December 17th, 2012
8:47 am

Interesting story of how a mother with a mentally disabled child has to deal with the fear of his violent outbursts. Rule number one: contain any potential access to weapons that might harm…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html

Michael

December 17th, 2012
8:47 am

A few years back an individual who had a show about hunting on TV made the statement that assault rifles had no place in hunting. Quickly the NRA and friends got him fired from his show, but not before he apologized. At 64yo i have never needed a gun in my life other than in Vietnam and when I saw the bodies of men, women and children and what violence did to them I knew that i would never own a weapon again.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:48 am

“Yes, lets make guns illegal since criminals are so good at obeying the law.

Yes, let’s make murder legal since criminals don’t obey that law either.

It’s really a silly, silly argument. The claim that because we can’t stop all killings, we should try to stop none is ridiculous. Again, the example of drunk driving is very useful. We did not ban cars; we did not ban alcohol. But through tighter regulation and enforcement, we cut the death toll from drunk driving in half, saving some 10,000 lives a year.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
8:48 am

Keith

December 17th, 2012
8:48 am

Its pretty ironic to see Deomcrats calling to restrict the very same types of firearms that Obama allowed to walk across the border to Mexican drug cartels. Obama doesnt have a leg to stand on.

JDW

December 17th, 2012
8:48 am

I find the “guns don’t kill people do” argument to be a simple attempt at misdirection with a kernel of truth. Indeed it is the people we must stop and the best way to do that is to make it as hard as possible for them to carry out their evil intentions.

If a semi-automatic weapon or high capacity magazines had not been available would Sandy Hook had happened…probably but maybe we would only be burying fifteen little ones.

If the rounds involved had not been specifically engineered to cause maximum damage to a person would some have survived?

If gun owners and families were required to have a certificate of mental competence each year would an early warning have been sounded?

If gun owners were required to secure their weapons from unauthorized use would the shooter have been able to arm himself?

Our goal must be to make these acts as hard as possible to carry out and in doing so, over time reduce both the number and severity of the attacks.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
8:49 am

morality

So, give me an example of an unfunded entitlement? Looking at my pay stub I see they take out money for fica and medicare, wouldn’t that be funded???

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
8:49 am

Weird. I know people that have several guns. I own a fire arm myself . And not once have we had the urge to go shoot up a school. No matter how our firearms “look”.

Maybe it’s possible the shooters, this one particularly, are absolutely crazy? Cold? Heartless?

Recon 0311 2533

December 17th, 2012
8:51 am

Jay,

You seem to be seeing the firearm as a simplistic explanation for a very complex problem. Mental illness and the external influences that cause violent behaviors in the mentally ill is far more complicated than any weapon or the accessories for any weapon.

Van Jones

December 17th, 2012
8:51 am

The Bushmaster (and the umpteen other AR-15 style guns out here) are copies of the Colt AR-15. And Colt is headquartered in CT. So blame Bushmaster if you will.

alittlecommonsense

December 17th, 2012
8:52 am

Unless something has changed in the evolving story, he left the rifle in the trunk of his car. He went inside and killed with two handguns, not the “assault rifle” in the image.

willie lynch

December 17th, 2012
8:52 am

People will place flowers and Teddy Bears at different places and declare their sorrow and outrage. And then continue to do nothing.

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
8:52 am

“It’s really a silly, silly argument. The claim that because we can’t stop all killings, we should try to stop none is ridiculous”

That’s not the argument. The argument is that you’re suggesting to take away more of a law abiding citizens rights just so you can sleep sounder under a false sense of security that no one will bring harm to you since guns are harder to get.

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
8:52 am

stands- Let’s melt down the Bushmaster web site. It’s the least we can do.

Spoken like a clueless Democrat. Would it help if we found the company that sold him the mask he wore and put them out of business too? Would that make you feel better?

Power to the sheeple!

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 17th, 2012
8:53 am

Well somebody obviously thinks Drones look mighty sexy too.
.
I have no idea where they buried those little Paki kids……………nor do the hipocritical agenda-driven false leftys.
.
http://beta.photobucket.com/images/predator%20drone/

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:53 am

“Its pretty ironic to see Deomcrats calling to restrict the very same types of firearms that Obama allowed to walk across the border to Mexican drug cartels. Obama doesnt have a leg to stand on.

The sole reason that the NRA and others on the right have made such a big deal about Fast and Furious is out of hope that by doing so they could cripple the hated BATF, the federal agency empowered to enforce federal gun laws. They hoped that by making a big deal out of a sting operation gone very much awry, they would be able to shut down all such sting operations in the future.

As an example of the NRA’s hypocrisy, note how they drop the whole “guns don’t kill people” mantra in discussing Fast and Furious. In that single case, they are quite willing to argue that guns killed people.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
8:54 am

We do have evidence of what happens when guns are banned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

So make more laws for criminals to violate? Whats the point in that?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
8:55 am

The sole reason that the NRA and others on the right have made such a big deal about Fast and Furious is out of hope that by doing so they could cripple the hated BATF, the federal agency empowered to enforce federal gun laws. They hoped that by making a big deal out of a sting operation gone very much awry, they would be able to shut down all such sting operations in the future.

As an example of the NRA’s hypocrisy, note how they drop the whole “guns don’t kill people” mantra in discussing Fast and Furious. In that single case, they are quite willing to argue that guns killed people

WRONG. Or have you forgotten the murder of Brian Terry? Doesnt that matter to you at all? Why do you find that acceptable?

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
8:55 am

“You seem to be seeing the firearm as a simplistic explanation for a very complex problem. Mental illness and the external influences that cause violent behaviors in the mentally ill is far more complicated than any weapon or the accessories for any weapon”

This. Since healthcare in our country is closer to a government responsibility now, I can see mandatory health screenings, including psychiatric screenings in the future.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:56 am

“Unless something has changed in the evolving story, he left the rifle in the trunk of his car. He went inside and killed with two handguns, not the “assault rifle” in the image.”

Again, incorrect. He left a shotgun in the car. He took the Bushmaster with him, and he used that weapon to pump three to 11 bullets into every one of his victims.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 17th, 2012
8:56 am

And Adam Lanza’s mother didn’t put a gun to my head (or threaten it) and compel me to buy her guns.
.
unlike………………………………

HDB

December 17th, 2012
8:56 am

The problem here is that it’s cheaper to buy a gun than it is to get medical attention for mental issues; it’s cheaper to buy bullets than it is to seek medical attention for physical and mental issues; maybe if the nation places a better premium on health issues and destigmatizes mental health issues, some of these people would seek the help they need!!! MAny of these people who lash out and massacre are severely depressed….and feel they have no way out!!!

bookman parrot

December 17th, 2012
8:56 am

i’m 100% pro 2nd Amendment, but do not have a problem with limiting magazine capacity to say 12 to 15; no problem with mandatory waiting period of a few days; reasonable background checks… cool with that as well… but much of this is already in place… not saying it can get better … but i hate to say it, terrible days will continue to occur until people and society are less violent and actually care about life; removal of guns from the average responsible owner is not the answer.

Morality?

December 17th, 2012
8:56 am

Drugs have been proven to genetically alter the brain – autism, brain disorders, paranoia, insanity are on the increase because of the mother’s and father’s of soon to be born children irresponsible use of drugs. We have all of these new autoimmune diseases, autism, blood disorders, cancer, etc and wonder where all these diseases that did not exist a few years ago but prevalent with us today come from? Crack, coke,meth,heroine Rx drugs are responsible. Yes as Obama said “We can not put up with this anymore”. I say it is time to go to the source – illegal drugs – most of which are entering the country through Mexico – to be dealt with more harshly. Time for the death sentence for Heroin, coke and meth dealers. Those selling death and destruction to our children must be stopped NOW. No need to house and feed them – quit coddling these murderers. DEATH SENTENCE is what they are handing out to our children and DEATH SENTENCE is what they deserve, Six months to trial and six months to the NEEDLE. NO more waiting 18 years to eliminate this plague.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
8:56 am


Joshua_Linskey

December 17th, 2012
8:24 am

Dear Tax Payer,
You’re an idiot and obviously one of the “a” holes. That is not an opinion, it’s an observation, hence the reason I declared you an idiot.

Thanks for reaffirming your opinion, Joshua.

JDW

December 17th, 2012
8:57 am

@alittlecommonsense…indeed you seem to be behind the curve…

“Connecticut State Police Lt. J. Paul Vance, speaking at an afternoon news conference, said “the weapon that was utilized most of the time during the crime was a [.223 caliber] Bushmaster rifle.”

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/16/167379387/obama-to-visit-conn-town-reeling-from-school-shooting

indigo

December 17th, 2012
8:57 am

@indigo – 8:43

What are you talking about?

What in THE WORLD are you trying to say?

willie lynch

December 17th, 2012
8:57 am

alittlecommonsense

December 17th, 2012
8:52 am

According to a report I read all the weapons were found near the shooter. This was released after the initial flurry of “information”.

I read the book Columbine which shed a great deal of light on the reactions of people after this kind of tragedy and one of it’s main cautions was to wait, we don’t know much of anything right now.

independent thinker

December 17th, 2012
8:57 am

Bushmaster +other assault weapons + plenty ammo + dysfunctional 20 year old son who is antisocial and feels no pain and mother who worships guns instead of religion + absentee father who ran off with new wife = mass shooter.
Anybody want to challenge that theory?????????????
Oh yeah the guns have nothing to do with those children being killed.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
8:58 am

The sign of a deeply diseased social order. Sick unto death.

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
8:59 am

skip- Your child’s life or the right to fire 30 rounds in 2 seconds, you choose

Last I checked, his rifle had the same rate of fire as the pistols he was carrying. One bulltet per trigger squeeze.

Personally I think we would be better off with simple hand guns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piXoF3JGhYM

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
8:59 am

Michael

December 17th, 2012
8:47 am

Amen! And welcome home, Brother.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
8:59 am

How often have the gun control groups helped out the families of slain police officers?

Law Enforcement Officers, that are NRA members, killed in the line of duty will have $25,000 in coverage.

I havent seen gun control groups doing anything to support these families.

Just Saying..

December 17th, 2012
9:00 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
9:01 am

I don’t find that murder acceptable, Keith.

I also don’t see what in the hell it has to do with the Newtown shootings and the issue under discussion here.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:02 am

Again, incorrect. He left a shotgun in the car. He took the Bushmaster with him, and he used that weapon to pump three to 11 bullets into every one of his victims.

What is your source for that? I saw the law enf statement that they were not commenting on what weapons used. Have they updated that statement?

indigo

December 17th, 2012
9:02 am

Brosephus – 8:42

I agree we should focus on curtailing the demand for drugs.

I also think we should focus on curtailing the demand for guns.

But, I suspect doing either or both will be about as sucessful as getting Israel and Palestine to live in peace.

Ison12

December 17th, 2012
9:02 am

Would it be safe to say the vast majority of Americans have never seen that ad? Yes.

Would it be safe to say the vast majority of Americans who have seen that ad have never engaged in a massacre by gun? Yes.

Perspective people, perspective.

newkid

December 17th, 2012
9:02 am

With a gun culture older the the country itself, it’ll take the nation another 100 years to rid ourselves of this menance even if we were to start today. So, much to our misfortune, we’ll likely replay the dreadful experience of last Friday many more times before we right our course.

As we begin the difficult discussion of how to fix this gun sickness while being honest with ourselves about what motivated so many of our past and present national policies, shouldn’t we ask if the solution lies – at least partially – in finding a way to make it profitable for a few corporations to engage in the enterprise of ridding the nation of menacing assault weapons? If a group of policy wonks could devise a means by which a select few corporations could make hundreds of millions in profit annually through the ridding the nation of these death machines, then our Congress would undoubtedly and immediately jump at the opportunity to enact enabling legislation and provide a host of tax incentives to encourage said corporations to put things right. Perhaps it speaks volumes about us, but much about our history ought to make it clear that our way forward on this issue rests at least partically in exploiting that profit motive that rests at the base of so much of what we do well.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
9:03 am

Its pretty ironic to see Deomcrats calling to restrict the very same types of firearms that Obama allowed to walk across the border to Mexican drug cartels.

Not as hilarious at the ignorance on display from people who post such stuff. If Arizona purchase laws weren’t so weak, the gun purchases would have never been made in the first place.

fair and balanced

December 17th, 2012
9:04 am

” A WELL REGULATED MILITIA BEING NECESSARY FOR THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE”

PURE GARBAGE by incompetent out of touch framers of the Constitution according to Antonin Scalia and four activist Justices.

How did those god given fundamental rights SCOTUS gave us to own any gun for any purpose work on Friday for the citizens of Connecticut?????????????????????

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:05 am

You are the one that stated the NRA only cared about using FF to end stings. The fact a man was murdered by weapons Obama provided is pertinent to this discussion when his party is now calling for restrictions of those very same weapons. Do they are fine to be used to kill in Mexico by drug dealers but not legally owned here???? Is that your argument?

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
9:05 am

Keith- So make more laws for criminals to violate? Whats the point in that?

I think we should require criminals to request a permit. That way the police will already have their DNA, fingerprints, and pictures on file before they start committing crimes. That will make catching them easier too. Then when they commit a crime without the proper permit, we can charge them with that crime too!

I’m sure that will solve our problem…

Steve

December 17th, 2012
9:05 am

Moralty? You make no sense. All of these problems have always existed, and we don’t have autism because of people doing cocaine.

Some of the things I read in here…wtf

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
9:05 am

“As we begin the difficult discussion of how to fix this gun sickness ”

There is no “gun sickness”, but there are sick people with guns.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
9:06 am

The mother of Adam Lanza, the gunman who killed 20 children and six adults in one of America’s worst ever school massacres, was a “survivalist” preparing for economic and social collapse, it has emerged.

According to reports, Nancy Lanza was a so-called ‘prepper’, a part of the survivalist movement which urges individuals to prepare for the breakdown of society by training with weapons and hoarding food and other supplies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mother-of-sandy-hook-school-gunman-adam-lanza-was-a-prepper-survivalist-preparing-for-economic-and-social-collapse-say-reports-8422298.html

Jerome Horwitz

December 17th, 2012
9:06 am

Until we can figure out a method to keep these types of weapons out of the hands of the disrubed there needs to be regulation. Other nations have it – why can’t the US?

RB from Gwinnett

December 17th, 2012
9:07 am

The next one of these is fully on the heads of the media who will not stop giving these nutcases exactly what they want, fame. I think pretty much everybody will agree, it’s not 20 dead children this nutcase was after, it’s exactly what’s happening in the media he was after. And he’s getting it.

And the next one is going to “one-up” this one with an attack even more outrageous. And they’ll make him famous too.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:07 am

Guns rights supporters are clearly willing to support whatever others feel needs to be done so long as their 2nd amendment rights trump the lives of six year olds and they are not asked to be more responsible or to pay for added security, etc. At least they have not asked for another tax cut in exchange for the undue stress they’re suffering due to additional calls for more gun controls. We should be thankful.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
9:07 am

I suspect doing either or both will be about as sucessful as getting Israel and Palestine to live in peace.

If you never put forth the effort to try, you’ll never be successful at doing what you didn’t set out to do.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:07 am

Not as hilarious at the ignorance on display from people who post such stuff. If Arizona purchase laws weren’t so weak, the gun purchases would have never been made in the first place.

How do you figure that? What would have prevented the shooters mother from buying the weapons? You are aware that there are many laws that the shooter was violating by having the guns at the school. I doubt another law wouldve stopped him.

Recon 0311 2533

December 17th, 2012
9:08 am

Banning guns or certain types of guns and restrictions on magazine capacity or ammunition are all overly simplistic solutions that won’t solve the problem. With tens of millions of guns in the general population all banning would do is create an underground of black market distribution for firearms and related accessories. Guns would still get into the hands of the criminal and the criminally insane.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
9:08 am

“Until we can figure out a method to keep these types of weapons out of the hands of the disrubed there needs to be regulation”

How do you suggest we identify the “disturned” who should not have guns? Serious question, what’s your suggestion?

godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller

December 17th, 2012
9:09 am

Cou9ldn’t turn on the TV this weekend without seeing something about the Ct. massacre, occasionally interrupted by ads for the Quentin Taratino movie, Django. Three or folks are shot, in the commercial.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
9:09 am

In truth, there is no rational argument for guns in this society. This is no longer a frontier nation in which people hunt their own food. It is a crowded, overwhelmingly urban country in which letting people have access to guns is a continuing disaster. Those who want guns—whether for target shooting, hunting or potting rattlesnakes (get a hoe)—should be subject to the same restrictions placed on gun owners in England—a nation in which liberty has survived nicely without an armed populace. […]

Michael Crichton makes an interesting argument about technology in his thriller “Jurassic Park.” He points out that power without discipline is making this society into a wreckage. By the time someone who studies the martial arts becomes a master—literally able to kill with bare hands—that person has also undergone years of training and discipline. But any fool can pick up a gun and kill with it.
“A well-regulated militia” surely implies both long training and long discipline. That is the least, the very least, that should be required of those who are permitted to have guns, because a gun is literally the power to kill. For years, I used to enjoy taunting my gun-nut friends about their psycho-sexual hang-ups—always in a spirit of good cheer, you understand. But letting the noisy minority in the National Rifle Association force us to allow this carnage to continue is just plain insane.

Molly Ivins

Common Sense

December 17th, 2012
9:10 am

Yet you ignore the anger from those that carry weapons to the government, who guarantees that those charged to protect kids in schools during the day ar fully disarmed.

Columbine: Gun Free Zone
Va Tech: Gun Free Zone
Ft. Hood: Gun Free Zone
Aurora: Gun Free Zone
Newtown School: Gun Free Zone.

And why did the shooting at the Oregon Mall not turn into a massacre?

An individual carry concealed merely confronted the shooter, who then terminated himself rather than face any threat.

Yet all of this is ignored.

Is the Gun Free Zones that have failed. It’s the constant call for more gun control that has failed.

And the flawed logic prohibits an honest conversation on this.

We did not do everything we can do to protect the kids.

Because the first thing to be done would not be to disarm their protectors.

godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller

December 17th, 2012
9:10 am

Thanks for the Bushmaster image. Putting it on my desktop.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 17th, 2012
9:10 am

Teaching young ,innocent, easily influenced minds to blindly trust gun-carrying Government authority figures has……………………………….destroyed more of our children’s lives than guns have.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
9:11 am

The Hartford Courant Editorial Board writes ‘We Have To Change’ — It’s About Time:
To get guns under control, we start with laws. Sen. Richard Blumenthal and Sen.-elect Chris Murphy acknowledged Sunday that “people want us to do something.” Correct. The Connecticut delegation should introduce a bill to go after the relatively obvious and reasonable steps: assault weapons ban, universal background checks, no high-capacity magazines. The National Rifle Association leaders will object. To hell with them. The right to public safety trumps the right to own an arsenal.

JohnnyReb

December 17th, 2012
9:11 am

I bought a 9MM handgun just after Obama won the election in 08. It’s still in the box, never fired. I intend to buy a semi-automatic rifle, probably not a Bushmaster but something similar before Progressives successfully outlaw them. Like the handgun, it will probably collect dust. Neither will ever be taken from me as long as I have breath.

I mourn for the children and others in this senseless tragedy.

I shake my head in utter disbelief that time after time the Left thinks they can use the government to fix failures of personal responsibility. And, are so eager to give up rights guaranteed by the Constitution on which our great country has thrieved. The Constitution that was expressly and specifically written to protect citizens from government yet they continually find it lacking although without they would probably have suffered the fate well recorded in the history of many other nations.

There is a lot yet to be learned of the shooter and family. Initial reports are very telling. I suggest attention be turned to that as lesson instead of drumming up support so that other peoples rights can be taken away.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
9:12 am

As usual, the conservatives and liberals are both wrong in their own head-in-the-sand ways, though it must be said the conservatives, as usual, are wrong in their usual diseased way, looking out over a scene of slaughter and telling themselves things are just fine, that this really is the best we can do as they whistle to themselves nice sweet ideological nothing rather than being willing to take the measure of a sick social order.

But the ‘band aid’ approaches of the liberals aren’t much better either. Gun control measures alone, not even with heavy doses of mental health treatment, won’t address the situation either. This too far advanced for that. This goes way beyond the simple fact that our culture is literally engulfed with weapons, though that is one of the primary symptoms of course.

No, this is going to take something far more profound, something more like an outright social revolution.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
9:12 am

@CommonSense – the Oregon Mall situation was minimized because the shooter’s gun JAMMED.

skipper

December 17th, 2012
9:16 am

I know it seems kinda politically incorrect to address certain mentally disturbed folks as “loons” but in most of these shootings, that is what you have. The shooter in the theatre was a nut-job..period. The shooter at Va. Tech was a nut-job….period. The kid that just did this shooting in Newton was a nut-job…..period. To hell with “mentally disturbed- mentally challenged” and all the other feel-good terms. These creeps were PURE FRICKIN’ NUT JOBS! I do not know how to weed them out of society, or how to predict this type of behaviour. This is in no way a bad reflection to the mildly mentally disabled or other folks. But, once again, these folks were LUNATICS…..a danger to society. I know it would be impossible to predtict who would do stuff like this, but that may need to be the focus.

alittlecommonsense

December 17th, 2012
9:16 am

“The sole reason that the NRA and others on the right have made such a big deal about Fast and Furious is out of hope that by doing so they could cripple the hated BATF, the federal agency empowered to enforce federal gun laws. They hoped that by making a big deal out of a sting operation gone very much awry, they would be able to shut down all such sting operations in the future.”

Or maybe it could be the fact that our government sold over 2000 of these assault rifles to ultra violent Mexican drug cartels. No, of course it’s just politics right Jay?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:17 am

Demonizing the NRA does nothing to help the situation. I still have not heard one thing the gun control groups have done for the law enforcement officers out there putting their lives on the line for our safety. Its pretty easy to show you what the NRA does:

http://le.nra.org/

The Law Enforcement Division (LED) of the NRA was established in 1960 specifically to provide the law enforcement community with a means to certify law enforcement firearm instructors. Over the last 50 years, we have trained more than 55,000 law enforcement firearm instructors and currently have over 11,000 active certified instructors.

independent thinker

December 17th, 2012
9:17 am

Welcome to the Occupation ;December 17th, 2012;9:06 am:

“”"”"”"”"The mother of Adam Lanza, the gunman who killed 20 children and six adults in one of America’s worst ever “massacres, was a “survivalist” preparing for economic and social collapse, it has emerged.”"”"”"”"”"”"”
EXCELLENT POST

How many of the racist antiObozo crowd have bought the NRA sales campaign and armed themselves to the teeth believing the second amendment gives us a fundamental right to combat tyranny by that black Commie Muslim??????????????

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:18 am

Have the gun rights advocates, NRA, others, issued their recommended guns for six year olds to tote yet. Surely some of you have studies showing that a six year old can safely unload a 10-clip magazine from a glock or something. Our children need answers now so they can be prepared to protect themselves. And they need to be affordable for that market. Remember these kids have small piggy banks.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
9:18 am

Lunatics will always try to inflict harm, but removing easy access to the most destructive weapons is the first step towards bringing these numbers down. Period. This is common sense. Again, I’ll say it again, but common sense is something that seems to allude so many of you on the far “Right.” You know, people like yourselves that still think Jesus walked with the Dinosaurs and Obama is a Muslim.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
9:19 am

Let’s be real.

DEMONIZING THE NRA is a great place to start.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:20 am

All these shootings are in gun free zones. So what is the solution? Make the entire country a gun free zone? Ludicrous. If gun bans reduced crime then crime in the UK would have dropped. It didnt.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
9:22 am

HEADLINE (AJC): “Crime comes to Beltline; security to be upgraded”

Notice something about that headline? Security always get “upgraded” AFTER a tragedy.

Jerome Horwitz

December 17th, 2012
9:23 am

Doggone – I just don’t know. More vigilance by parents, teachers, peers? Better mental health options? Here’s an interesting link to a mother’s frustration. I wish I had an answer.

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother?fb_action_ids=4620806512388&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller

December 17th, 2012
9:24 am

Can anyone cite an NRA ad, program, column that promotes “survivalist” preparation for economic and social collapse??

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
9:24 am

JohnnyReb: “I bought a 9MM handgun just after Obama won the election in 08. It’s still in the box, never fired. I intend to buy a semi-automatic rifle,”

Why on earth did you do something like that? That’s about the silliest thing I’ve every heard. JohnnyReb versus the drones! Anybody want to take odds?

So you’re admitting basically that you’re a bit of a paranoid delusional nut?

“There is a lot yet to be learned of the shooter and family. Initial reports are very telling”

Yeah, and the real irony is that the Lanza family by all accounts were looking at things a lot like you do, JohnnyReb, just a tad more extreme.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:25 am

So now its crazy to prepare for disasters.

jconservative

December 17th, 2012
9:26 am

Maybe a challenge the whole gun/violence culture needs to be made through the Federal court system.

For example:

The 14th Amendment states that “No state shall…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

The State of Connecticut protected the 2nd Amendment Constitutional right of its citizens to “keep and bear Arms”. The AR-15 and the 30 round clips are legal in Connecticut.

The State of Connecticut did not provide those 20 dead kids “the equal protection of the laws”.
The State requires that parents educate their children. Yet the State did not provide for the safety of those children in a State mandated school. Those children were entitled to the Constitutional right to the “equal protection of the laws”.

Which is the ultimate right? The right to “keep and bear Arms” or the right to “the equal protection of the laws”? Both are in the Constitution. Is their a middle ground? Can we observe both rights?

As Justice Scalia noted in his majority decision in District of Columbia v. Heller: “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” (The case is # 07-290 for those wanting to read it).

My question is “Are 30 round clips protected by the Constitution”?

You know in the last 11 years we have spent almost a trillion dollars to keep Islamic terrorist from killing more Americans. But we have not spent a dime to keep domestic terrorists from killing their fellow Americans.

Obama is correct on this issue, it is past time for a discussion on domestic violence.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
9:26 am

Columbine to Newtown, no gun or ammo has been banned.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

December 17th, 2012
9:26 am

Too bad we can’t get the assault guns off the market. “Handguns is made for killing, ain’t no good for nothing else…” Wish we could get all of them but that won’t happen…

People say people kill people….I say without guns it would be difficult to kill on a mass scale without bomb making capacity. Home invasions affect about 3% of homes in US…I note that there are 310,000,000 non-military guns in private ownership in the US…

Why do people need them? If so, why not keep them at a gun club? Too late for pontificating on this as we all know we can’t confiscate..

saywhat?

December 17th, 2012
9:27 am

Repeal the second amendment. Its obsolete. Enact strict gun laws and over a long period of time the ridiculous number of guns currently available will start to dwindle, until one day 20 years from now, or longer, the number of annual gun deaths will be cut in half much as drunk driving deaths have.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
9:27 am

“I wish I had an answer”

We all do, but instituting “solutions” that are no such thing only foster a false sense of security. Yes, there are things we can do to make access to some guns more difficult…but it does no one any good to hide our heads in the sand and pretend we can prevent such tragedies altogether. Because we can’t.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:27 am

If its crazy to prepare for disasters guess we should go ahead and terminate FEMA, The Red Cross and other organizations that prepare to deal with them.

jose

December 17th, 2012
9:29 am

Why is it, Jay, that you always settle short of what is needed? Sure, we need to take a closer look at gun laws. But, changing gun laws is but a first step. The REAL issue here isn’t just guns, it is MENTAL HEALTH. There was something mentally wrong with the shooter and those types of problems don’t emerge overnight. His family had to have known something was wrong with the guy, but like most families, they probably struggled with what to do, just like the family of the workplace shooter in Minnesota in October and the grad student who shot up the theater in Colorado. Simply banning guns may make it more difficult for these individuals to harm themselves and others, but these cases will continue until the U.S. treats mental health disorders as a disease and not an afflication that can somehow be ignored or talked away.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
9:30 am

Firs this:

According to reports, Nancy Lanza was a so-called ‘prepper’, a part of the survivalist movement which urges individuals to prepare for the breakdown of society by training with weapons and hoarding food and other supplies.

and then this:

I bought a 9MM handgun just after Obama won the election in 08. It’s still in the box, never fired. I intend to buy a semi-automatic rifle, probably not a Bushmaster but something similar before Progressives successfully outlaw them. Like the handgun, it will probably collect dust. Neither will ever be taken from me as long as I have breath.

Guns kill people.

/drive-by

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

December 17th, 2012
9:30 am

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
9:24 am

Good god man…don’t you know that it’s easier to get him a deer with such fire power? Probably get more than one fowl to a clip…a real challenge eh?

Seriously, I think regarding a home invasion, most homeowners would hesitate to shoot another human…that hesitation is likely deadly…

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
9:31 am

A brief history of Gun Control In America:

America’s history of regulating private ownership of firearms goes back much farther. In fact, all the way back to…

1837
Georgia passes a law banning handguns. The law is ruled unconstitutional and thrown out.

1865
In a reaction to emancipation, several southern states adopt “black codes” which, among other things, forbid black persons from possessing firearms.

1871
The National Rifle Association (NRA) is organized around its primary goal of improving American civilians’ marksmanship in preparation for war.

1927
Congress passes a law banning the mailing of concealable weapons.

1934
The National Firearms Act of 1934 regulating only fully automatic firearms like sub-machine guns is approved by Congress.

1938
The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 places the first limitations on selling ordinary firearms. Persons selling guns are required to obtain a Federal Firearms License, at an annual cost of $1, and to maintain records of the name and address of persons to whom firearms are sold. Gun sales to persons convicted of violent felonies were prohibited.

1968
The Gun Control Act of 1968 – “…was enacted for the purpose of keeping firearms out of the hands of those not legally entitled to possess them because of age, criminal background, or incompetence.” — Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms The Act regulates imported guns, expands the gun-dealer licensing and record keeping requirements, and places specific limitations on the sale of handguns. The list of persons banned from buying guns is expanded to include persons convicted of any non-business related felony, persons found to be mentally incompetent, and users of illegal drugs.

1972
The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms is created listing as part of its mission the control of illegal use and sale of firearms and the enforcement of Federal firearms laws. ATF issues firearms licenses and conducts firearms licensee qualification and compliance inspections.

1977
The District of Columbia enacts an anti-handgun law which also requires registration of all rifles and shotguns within the District of Columbia.

1986
The Armed Career Criminal Act (Public Law 99-570) increases penalties for possession of firearms by persons not qualified to own them under the Gun Control Act of 1986.

The Firearms Owners Protection Act (Public Law 99-308) relaxes some restrictions on gun and ammunition sales and establishes mandatory penalties for use of firearms during the commission of a crime.

The Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act (Public Law 99-408) bans possession of “cop killer” bullets capable of penetrating bulletproof clothing.

1989
California bans the possession of semiautomatic assault weapons following the massacre of five children on a Stockton, CA school playground.

1990
The Crime Control Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-647) bans manufacturing and importing semiautomatic assault weapons in the U.S. “Gun-free school zones” are established carrying specific penalties for violations.

1994
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159) imposes a five-day waiting period on the purchase of a handgun and requires that local law enforcement agencies conduct background checks on purchasers of handguns. (ATF’s Brady Law web site.)
The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (Public Law 103-322) bans all sale, manufacture, importation, or possession of a number of specific types of assault weapons.

1997
The Supreme Court, in the case of Printz v. United States, declares the background check requirement of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act unconstitutional.
The Florida Supreme Court upholds a jury’s $11.5 million verdict against Kmart for selling a gun to and intoxicated man who used the gun to shoot his estranged girlfriend.
Major American gun manufacturers voluntarily agree to include child safety trigger devices on all new handguns.

1998 – June
A Justice Department report indicates the blocking of some 69,000 handgun sales during
1977 while Brady Bill pre-sale background checks were required.

1998 – July
An amendment requiring a trigger lock mechanism to be included with every handgun sold in the U.S. is defeated in the Senate.

But, the Senate approves an amendment requiring gun dealers to have trigger locks available for sale and creating federal grants for gun safety and education programs.

1998 – October
New Orleans, LA becomes the first US city to file suit against gun makers, firearms trade associations, and gun dealers. The city’s suit seeks recovery of costs attributed to gun-related violence.

1998 – November 12
Chicago, IL files a $433 million suit against local gun dealers and makers alleging that oversupplying local markets provided guns to criminals.

1998 – November 17
A negligence suite against gun maker Beretta brought by the family of a 14-year old boy killed by an other boy with a Beretta handgun is dismissed by a California jury.

1998 – November 30
Permanent provisions of the Brady Act go into effect. Gun dealers are now required to initiate a pre-sale criminal background check of all gun buyers through the newly created National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) computer system.

1998 – December 1
The NRA files suit in federal court attempting to block the FBI’s collection of information on firearm buyers.

1998 – December 5
President Clinton announces that the instant background check system had prevented 400,000 illegal gun purchases.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
9:31 am

“I say without guns it would be difficult to kill on a mass scale without bomb making capacity”

No, it wouldn’t. All it takes is a car and a crowd to plow it into. No bomb making ability needed. Just the will, the crowd and the car.

td

December 17th, 2012
9:31 am

We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
—Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

December 17th, 2012
9:33 am

jose

December 17th, 2012
9:29 am

Good thought but little chance real money will be freed up for such and the definition of ‘nuts’ varies…the likelihood such an individual will be “cured” is remote at best…

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
9:33 am

Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44
National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53
Arms Export Control Act (AECA), 22 U.S.C. 2778

Gives the President the authority to control imports and exports of “defense articles,” including firearms and ammunition, in furtherance of world peace and the security and foreign policy of the United States.

weetamoe

December 17th, 2012
9:33 am

Presidential or newspaper editorial or local newspaper blogger platitudes are meaningless. The killer alone is to blame for the deaths of these children and the good people who tried to protect them. The media vultures who interviewed little children on the same day that their classmates were killed are contemptible. There is a *stiff resistance* to gun legislation in Newtown CT according to the NYT. As usual, Obama lets no crisis go to waste — unless it requires him to actually do something courageous (and posturing about guns is not it).

Kevin

December 17th, 2012
9:34 am

The gun lobby should reconsider its position on assault weapons. And the abortion lobby should reconsider its position taking the life of the unborn. Assault weapons along with a low view of life are a dangerous combination.

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

December 17th, 2012
9:34 am

Freedom Group is an American firearms manufacturer holding company which has acquired notable brands such as Bushmaster, DPMS, and Remington Arms.

Freedom Group is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity investment firm.

emz

December 17th, 2012
9:34 am

I hope not. I hope there will be more support for mental health issues too.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
9:35 am

“Criminals obey “gun control” laws in the same manner politicians follow their oaths of office.” Anonymous

President Obama ……… you swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Don’t blow that over this tragic crisis.

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

December 17th, 2012
9:35 am

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
9:31 am

OK so we got bomb makers and vehicular homicide…be tough to get a car into a school, mall or most other buildings where people collect…most killers have specific targets in mind…I guess it does happen but mostly it’s old folks at the helm….

Tall

December 17th, 2012
9:36 am

My son is a sixth grader at Sandy Springs Middle School. One of the full time staff members is an ARMED Fulton County Police Officer. There are also security cameras throughout the school. This is how you prevent these incidents from taking place.

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
9:36 am

Sullum from Reason sums it up why the restrictions only hinder the law abiding citizen….

“The notion that restrictions like these can have a noticeable impact, let alone that they can “end” or “stop” occasional outbursts of senseless violence, is hard to credit unless you believe what Obama insists he does not: that evil can be legislated out of the world by acts of Congress.”

td

December 17th, 2012
9:37 am

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
—Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Let's get real..

December 17th, 2012
9:37 am

It’s been a while since I’ve read such a bunch of malarkey put forth as “answers”, common sense” and oh well, what to do wringing hands. If we’re honest with ourselves, we know the answer, we know what to do but apparently, we don’t have the spine to take that step. Yes, there are millions of responsible gun owners but do we really want them to have more guns? Is that really an answer? More guns, bullets? Are we really all that afraid that we’re willing to sacrifice lives so we can stay secure behind our wall of weapons and if so, what kind of life is that really?

Dunwoody Granny

December 17th, 2012
9:37 am

People keep saying that it’s no use making certain weapons illegal because the bad guys don’t obey laws anyway. What that argument misses is the fact that when the bad guys steal a weapon, they nearly always steal it from a legal owner. If the weapon were illegal and no law-abiding person owned one, it wouldn’t be available for the bad guy to steal.

Seriously, we need to make semi-automatics and high capacity magazines illegal. No one needs those. Some folks may find them fun (I’ve enjoyed firing a semi-auto on a firing range), but some people also find it fun to drive their cars at 100 mph on the highway, and we as a society have no trouble limiting that.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
9:37 am

Oh, and by the way, when you find me, Stevie Ray (@ 9.26), AND bookman parrot (@ 8.56) in basic agreement on an issue, it might be time to realize that those actually more hawkish than us, might just be a tad extreme.

/drive-by for realz

the cat

December 17th, 2012
9:37 am

I find it very sad a small group of rich white men wrote the 2nd Amendment with no input from others. Certainly not from women or minorities. It is past time for it to be repealed.

A friend of mine has a bushmaster. When asked why all I hear are crickets.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:37 am

Assault weapons for condoms. There’s the ticket.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
9:38 am

1934 — National Firearms Act:

Brought about by the lawlessness and rise of gangster culture during prohibition, President Franklin D. Roosevelt hoped this act would eliminate automatic-fire weapons like machine guns from America’s streets. Other firearms such as short-barreled shotguns and rifles, parts of guns like silencers, as well as other “gadget-type” firearms hidden in canes and such were also targeted. All gun sales and gun manufacturers were slapped with a $200 tax (no small amount for Americans mired in the Great Depression; that would be like a tax of $2,525 today) on each firearm, and all buyers were required to fill out paperwork subject to Treasury Dept. approval.

1968 Gun Control Act:
The assassination of John F. Kennedy, who was killed by a mail-order gun that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald, inspired this major revision to federal gun laws. The subsequent assasinations of Martin Luther King and presidential candidate Robert Kennedy fueled its quick passage.

License requirements were expanded to include more dealers, and more detailed record keeping was expected of them; handgun sales over state lines were restricted; the list of persons dealers could not sell to grew to include those convicted of felonies (with some exceptions), those found mentally incompetent, drug users and more. The act also defined persons who were banned from possessing firearms.

The key element of this bill outlawed mail order sales of rifles and shotguns; Up until this law, mail order consumers only had to sign a statement that they were over 21 years of age for a handgun (18 for rifle or shotgun); it also detailed more persons who were banned from possessing certain guns, including drug users, and further restricted shotgun and rifles sales.

Read more: Federal Gun Control Legislation – Timeline — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/guntime1.html#ixzz2FJuGSPp6

GA Dawg

December 17th, 2012
9:40 am

The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.

This stuff happens all the time, why weren’t security guard and the principal carrying arms?

the cat

December 17th, 2012
9:40 am

td-do you know your hero tommy jefferson had many mistresses all of who were forced to have abortions, many dying in the process?

godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller

December 17th, 2012
9:40 am

Seriously, we need to make semi-automatics and high capacity magazines illegal. No one needs those. Some folks may find them fun (I’ve enjoyed firing a semi-auto on a firing range), but some people also find it fun to drive their cars at 100 mph on the highway, and we as a society have no trouble limiting that.

But you can buy a car capable of going 100+ mph, and hundreds of children are killed every year in auto accidents involving excessive speed. Where is the cry to ban the manufacture and sale of automobiles that go way faster than anyone NEEDS to go or can legally drive?

deegee

December 17th, 2012
9:41 am

I’m getting a bit weary of the assertion that lawful gun owners are responsible people that should have however many guns and as much ammunition as they want. At the risk of being insensitive, Nancy Lanza got what she asked for. What responsible, lawful gun owner has a mentally disturbed, socially inept adult living in her household with high powered weapons that she taught him to use? She should have kept the kitchen knives under lock and key. Unfortunately, innocent children and their protectors died, too.

saywhat?

December 17th, 2012
9:41 am

A gun kept in the home is more likely to kill or injure a member of the household than it is to be used in self defense.

Kharma is a bitch.

the cat

December 17th, 2012
9:41 am

Ga Dawg-The SS could not keep President Reagan and Brady from being shot. They are all heavily armed.

Chris Salzmann

December 17th, 2012
9:41 am

The NRA is just a lobbying group for the gun industry as is the rest of the pro-gun lobby. Take the example of the Bushmaster: it comes with a “soft trigger” allowing one fire off 15-20 rounds in 10 seconds. That’s versus the “hard trigger” that traditional handguns have. A nice attempt to circumvent the automatic weapons ban. You want more rounds? Also available is the 100 round drum magazine if the 30 round magazine that comes with the Bushmaster isn’t big enough. This isn’t a weapon for self defense: it’s a tool to kill and kill fast.

Arming themselves to fight government tyranny? Really??? I’d like to see these wannabe men stand up against a squad of SEALS. All these idiots are doing is overcompensating for something else. You want play soldier and carry an assault rifle? Go put on a uniform in the service of your country.

Mike

December 17th, 2012
9:42 am

I hope we have the courage to focus on where the real day to day problem lies with regards to gun related crimes and death. Statistics will lead us directly to the segment and geographical areas in our society where the problem is most prevalent on a daily basis. We have known this for years and have done nothing.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:42 am

Has Bookman EVER condemned Obama for furnishing weapons to drug cartels in Mexico? If he hasnt then he is being hypocritical now with his condemnation of LAWABIDING AMERICAN CITIZENS owning the same types of weapons.

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
9:44 am

granny- DEMONIZING THE NRA is a great place to start.

Yeah! And all these kids were killed at school. If we get rid of the schools, then he wouldn’t have had a target rich environment to cause this. Outlawing schools will solve the problem…

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
9:45 am

“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Justice Antonin Scalia in District of Columbus v. Heller (2008)

godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller

December 17th, 2012
9:46 am

A gun kept in the home is more likely to kill or injure a member of the household than it is to be used in self defense.

Kharma is a bitch.

A child is more at risk in a home with a swimming pool, than one with a gun. Kharma is honest.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
9:48 am

deegee: I’m getting a bit weary of the assertion that lawful gun owners are responsible people that should have however many guns and as much ammunition as they want.

“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Justice Antonin Scalia in District of Columbus v. Heller (2008)

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
9:48 am

GA. Dawg — “The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.”

Wishful thinking and imagination. Remember that office building in Buckhead that the day-trader shot up a few years ago? My wife WORKED in that building at the time. The ARMED bank guards at the branch in the building didn’t do jack spit.

If you’re going to indulge your Rambo fantasies about taking down a bad guy, let me GTFO of your way first, because I don’t trust you or your marksmanship skills — and I say that as gun-owning Army vet who’s a pretty good shot himself.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
9:49 am

Nothing will change except by Executive Order concerning guns,
ammo or accessories.

saywhat?

December 17th, 2012
9:49 am

A gun kept in the home is more likely to kill or injure a member of the household than it is to be used in self defense.

Kharma is a bitch.

A child is more at risk in a home with a swimming pool, than one with a gun. Kharma is honest.

—————————————————————–
Thats why you will find neither at my house. Whats your point?

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
9:50 am

stands- Guns kill people.

I guess all my guns are defective. They’ve never killed anyone. Should I ask for a refund?

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:51 am

Perhaps a tax applied to each bullet and each gun and each gun manufacturer of appropriate magnitude to adequately fund protection for our children while in school is in order. After all, we cannot expect all of our six year olds to have the financial means to purchase their own glocks for protection. Then again, there are always refundable tax credits for them.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
9:51 am

The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.

JohnnyReb is officially topped.

If I’ve ever heard a more vivid example of pure magical thinking, I can’t remember it.

My, what superstition! The magical Second Amendment, handed down from on high with the tablets of Moses, would protect us if only we followed it to the letter!

Had this only happened, then by sheer force of magic when the shooter tried to enter the building he would have been met with a force-field of pure American constitutional virtue and goodness, as the gun would have been automatically pulled from the belt of the gun-bearing guardian at the school and would have magically levitated towards the shooter. And Presto! Threat removed. American social order restored and rescued from harm. All you have to do is believe, boys and girls!

Shar

December 17th, 2012
9:52 am

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

The Founders, addressing as they did a subsistence society, did not justify arming the public for either hunting or self-defense. They based the right to keep and bear arms on “the security of a free state”, and they predicated it on “a well regulated militia.” The Founders clearly did not perceive the Second Amendment as an open door to personal armament for the fun and thrill of the individual, nor for defending the home or feeding the family of the owner.

Gun ownership was included in the Constitution as a means of preserving “the security of a free State” since the Federal government at that time did not have the means of maintaining a standing army.

This Amendment was also written at a time when the great majority of shooters had to make their own ammunition. Shooting that ammunition was therefore something that was done carefully and for a purpose, since expending it meant the cost and labor of replacing it.

The Supremes have decided that membership in such a militia is not a prerequisite to gun ownership although the need for personal competence such as would be needed in a militia has not been adequately addressed. Gun ownership has not entailed the basics of car ownership – licenses to ascertain competence, annual inspection to ensure safe functionality and insurance to protect people and property from reckless misuse of the car. Initial discussions of gun control must include such minimal standards as these for gun ownership.

However, the purpose of guns, unlike the purpose of cars, is to kill things. For that reason, it is important to go beyond the basics established for automobiles and treat guns as we treat prescription drugs. Both can be beneficial but uncontrolled distribution of either is disastrous. Pattern ammunition sales after prescription drugs, with approval for set amounts issued by the sheriff’s office and misuse or resale punishable with prison and fines.

The NRA has a couple of million members, and they are funded by the gun industry. These two groups have held the rest of us hostage for too many years by alternately bribing and paying off our representatives.

It’s time to take away police protection for politicians until they come up with laws that will protect the rest of us as assiduously as they demand protection for themselves.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:52 am

I guess all my guns are defective. They’ve never killed anyone. Should I ask for a refund?

The gun dealer might ask you to prove that the weapon is indeed defective.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
9:53 am

Anybody come up with that NRA ad promoting survivalist stuff yet? Or is that just another BS assertion?

Leeroy

December 17th, 2012
9:53 am

“True, to some extent. Hunting rifles don’t have 30-round clips, however. Furthermore, it is precisely that military look that these mass killers find so appealing, for reasons reflected in the Bushmaster ad above.”

So a gun manufactured to resemble, say, a “hunting rifle” (which this Bushmaster could also classify as) that happens to have a 30 round clip and semi-auto fire would be OK, since it doesn’t look all cool and scary or whatever like an AR-15 or any other “assault weapon”, even though a hunting rifle is just as capable of assault as any other gun in the hands of some fruitcake like Lanza.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:54 am

Some people are willing to give up all of their rights to the govt. We saw the results of such logic in Nazi occupied Europe.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
9:54 am

With a Rover on Mars I don’t believe we cannot secure a building
from a 20 year old man with a .223 Bushmaster.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
9:55 am

GA Dawg

December 17th, 2012
9:40 am
The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.

This stuff happens all the time, why weren’t security guard and the principal carrying arms?
.
.
.
.

PIffle.
.
.

Study after study says that would most likely run up the body count.

A Mother Jones analysis of 61 mass murders over the last 30 years found that “in not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun.” As one leading expert explained, “given that civilian shooters are less likely to hit their targets than police in these circumstances,” arming civilians could often lead to more chaos and deaths.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:55 am

A child is more at risk in a home with a swimming pool, than one with a gun. Kharma is honest.

And now that above ground swimming pools have been made both portable and affordable, I dread to think of what could happen.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
9:56 am

“The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.

This stuff happens all the time, why weren’t security guard and the principal carrying arms?”

Tell that to the two armed police officers shot in the head and killed last night in Kansas while responding to a suspicious vehicle call.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
9:57 am

Whats your point?

Freedom.

oops

December 17th, 2012
9:58 am

the worst thing is those crazy Baptist wacko church protesters that show up at gay serviceman funerals are supposedly planning to protest the children’s funerals

if that happens, they are dancing with the devil

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
9:58 am

“continue to take away Christian teachings of love and respect and seem think that guns are the real problem”

Guns don’t kill people – people of other religions kill people…

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
9:58 am

chris salzman- Take the example of the Bushmaster: it comes with a “soft trigger” allowing one fire off 15-20 rounds in 10 seconds. That’s versus the “hard trigger” that traditional handguns have.

Is this a reference to single v. double action? We all know there is absolutely nothing you can do to adjust the trigger squeeze on a weapon.

Please keep ranting about things you obviously know nothing about. You fit right in with most of the people here today.

I think the shooter wore Nike’s. Send your boycott notice to http://www.nike.com

That will solve everything…

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
9:58 am

“If the anti gun lobby would take away semi-automatic assault weapons and leave it at that, lots of people would be willing to talk.”

You lie!!!

ANY talk of restriction or “control” automatically elicits screeching of “slippery slope” and “jack booted thugs” from the anti control lobby.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
9:59 am

Do all the gun rights advocates have their plans in place to protect us from the Nazis when they invade. And what’s the secret to taking out a tank with a bushmaster anyway. Is there an attachment that converts it into an RPG launcher in under thirty seconds. How much does it cost. Can ammo be purchased at WalMart.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
9:59 am

The NRA has a couple of million members, and they are funded by the gun industry.

Not meant to be a factual statement.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:59 am

The Boston Strangler choked people to death. Ban hands and arms? Bundy used a tree branch to murder coeds at Fla State. Ban trees? Silly? Yes, but so is the argument to ban guns because a criminal committed a crime with one.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
9:59 am

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
9:44 am
granny- DEMONIZING THE NRA is a great place to start.

Yeah! And all these kids were killed at school. If we get rid of the schools, then he wouldn’t have had a target rich environment to cause this. Outlawing schools will solve the problem…

comparing apples to volkswagons, wastes what brain power you might have left.

then how would you ever find the cpapcity to make up quotes?

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
9:50 am
stands- Guns kill people.
.
.
.

Ok so if guns don’t kill people, people kill people,

are you advocating “people” control?

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:00 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
8:15 am

Whatever, there is no constitutional right to possess a Bushmaster.

And there isn’t one saying you can’t, sport!

indigo

December 17th, 2012
10:00 am

Brosephus – 9:07

The brutal truth is there’s little or nothing you and I can do as individuals to stop this gun madness.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:00 am

The NRA has over 4 million members. THEY fund it.

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
10:02 am

“The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.”

There was a person at the school exercising his “2nd amendment law rights”… had there been another in the way of a trained, armed individual, perhaps the outcome might’ve been different.

RB from Gwinnett

December 17th, 2012
10:02 am

“Guns kill people.”

Then why do you people keep claiming Navy Seals and Obama killed Bin Laden?

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:03 am

Keith

December 17th, 2012
9:59 am

The Boston Strangler choked people to death. Ban hands and arms? Bundy used a tree branch to murder coeds at Fla State. Ban trees? Silly? Yes, but so is the argument to ban guns because a criminal committed a crime with one.

Don’t forget Richard Speck.

oops

December 17th, 2012
10:03 am

permanently affixed trigger locks on every new gun sold. ideally, electronic fingerprint locks

yes, it would make guns more expensive. too bad

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
10:04 am

Shar — FYI:

“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Justice Antonin Scalia in District of Columbus v. Heller (2008)

Rick C

December 17th, 2012
10:04 am

Keith, that line of argument is just silly. Guns have one intended purpose, and that is to harm.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:04 am

I once heard that a person with proper training in the martial arts can choke people at a rate of up to 4 persons per second.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:05 am

“The NRA has over 4 million members. THEY fund it.”

Sorry. Again, not true.

“Dec. 29 (Bloomberg) — A toaster that burns the National Rifle Association’s logo onto bread fetched $650 at an auction last month, just one reflection of the money-making power in the gun group’s brand.

The NRA, which began as a grassroots organization dedicated to teaching marksmanship, enters the 2012 election season as a lobbying, merchandising and marketing machine that brings in more than $200 million a year and intends to help unseat the incumbent president. From 2004 to 2010, the group’s revenue from fundraising — including gifts from gun makers who benefit from its political activism — grew twice as fast as its income from members’ dues, according to NRA tax returns.

More than 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million to the Fairfax, Virginia-based group, according to the NRA’s own list for a donor program that began in 2005.”

King of Planet Kolob

December 17th, 2012
10:06 am

Where is John McCain when we need him to pitch a hissy-fit and sream for people to be fired for giving incorrect information at the outset of a crisis?

clem

December 17th, 2012
10:07 am

td hiding behind quotes from 1800’s. while certain principles should abide, i seriously doubt our founding fathers invisioned the carnage that modern weapon technology can deliver. wake up. time for common sense to prevail.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
10:07 am

Debbie, I haven’t seen anyone here advocating unlimited gun rights. As a gun owner, I support sensible gun laws. I do not support passing laws just for the sake of making people feel that they “have done something.”

GT

December 17th, 2012
10:07 am

The right is constantly trying to put the preconceived answer in the blank at the end of a debate, and then back into it with potluck facts, hatred justifying the detours from the truth. More and more they run out of pavement in their arguments as it becomes baseless and the conclusions insanity. The right run from this reality in their FOX and radio, they support homegrown terrorists, and don’t have the guts to admit they were wrong, so wrong, with their thuggery and Tea Party bullies.

I am proud of our president, these words he spoke yesterday, the leadership he shows, and we cried together as a nation. This one won’t be forgotten, we have the leadership, for once that feels our loss and doesn’t need an idiot card to express it.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:08 am

“The Boston Strangler choked people to death. Ban hands and arms? Bundy used a tree branch to murder coeds at Fla State. Ban trees? Silly? Yes, but so is the argument to ban guns because a criminal committed a crime with one.”

Only really dumb people can be convinced by really dumb arguments.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
10:08 am

The 2nd Ammendment is NOT the Holy Grail…….

It is NOT the 2nd Coming Of Christ……….

It is NOT a 2nd chance at redemption…………..

It is NOT a fore gone conclusion that it won’t ever change…..

“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Justice Antonin Scalia in District of Columbus v. Heller (2008)

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 17th, 2012
10:09 am

No worries mate……….these are for only the brown people————

“Bushmaster Firearms International L.L.C.*, Windham, Maine, was awarded on March 12, 2007, a $5,411,132 firm-fixed-price contract for Bushmaster rifle with 20 inch barrels, Bushmaster carbine with 11.5 inch barrel, M16A3 spare 30 round magazines, Bushmaster rifle contractor support package, Bushmaster carbine crates for 11.5 carbines, crates for M16A3 spares, and crates for Bushmaster rifles. Work will be performed in Windham, Maine, and is expected to be completed by Nov. 20, 2007. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This was a sole source contract initiated on Feb. 11, 2005. The U.S. Army Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command, Rock Island, Ill., is the contracting activity (W52H09-07-C-0086). ”
.
lol

oops

December 17th, 2012
10:09 am

let’s be honest. the type of gun would make only a little difference. that dude in Norway or Sweden killed some 40 kids with a regular rifle

the first victim in this bears the most responsibility, and she is dead

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:09 am

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
9:49 am

Nothing will change except by Executive Order concerning guns,
ammo or accessories.

Oh good, just what we need, another executive order. I want the Govt to take care of me, who cares about personal responsibility.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:09 am

Only really dumb people can be convinced by really dumb arguments.

Well! If you really want to be blunt about it!

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:09 am

I’ve said this before, but I think it bears saying again.

I’m a gun owner, and I am sympathetic to the concerns of other gun owners. That said, our right to keep and bear arms is not absolute, and carries with it significant obligations and responsibilities.

In our society, we empower peace and law enforcement officers to exercise certain powers in our name in order to maintain order and to both deter lawbreakers and apprehend them. We vet and train volunteers for that duty, and as part of that duty, we grant them the authority to use firearms in the performance of that duty — with the understanding that they will exercise due caution, care and diligence in so doing.

The same’s not true of individuals with carry and concealed carry permits. They’re vetted, but not as law enforcement or peace officers. And, of course, they’re not subject to the same rules and regulations as LEOs and POs. Yet in some states, they’re *immunized* from the results of their actions by things like ’stand your ground’ laws. I think this is wrong.

If you’re so all-fired confident of your marksmanship skills and you think you can play Junior Police Officer if a bad guy starts slinging lead in a public place, then man up and have the courage of your convictions. Work without a net and take legal responsibility for EACH AND EVERY ROUND you send downrange.

You took a shot at what you perceived to be a bad guy and instead hit and injured young mother, pushing her baby in a stroller? Fine, let’s let mom’s insurance company sue the living daylights out of you.

You tried to stop what appeared to be a carjacking at the QT station and now the jackee is dead from one of your rounds? Okay, let’s let the victim’s family sue you for wrongful death.

Oh, what, you don’t think you should be subject to the consequences of your overconfident gunplay? Well, then, IMO you’re not mature enough to HAVE a firearm in that case.

And FWIW, I have no problem extending this to perps as well. Not like I *expect* most perps to be drawing breath after the shootout’s over or to have much in the way of attachable property in case of a settlement, but I *do* expect the notion of liability to influence the behavior of those who might just complicate an already bad situation.

After all, if you whip out a piece to stop a shooter in a public place, what’s to stop an eyewitness from pointing at YOU and saying ‘that guy was shooting, too?’

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
10:11 am

I have no interest in banning guns. I’ve been considering the purchase of a new 9mm or .380 for a couple months now, but held off due to the high demand because of the wingnuts unwarranted insistence that Obama is coming to get your guns.

I figured I’d wait until after the election when either we had Pres Mittens, or the lie filled hysteria calmed… now I’m torn, should I commit now or wait until this whole kerfuffle blows over? (and you know it will..)

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
10:11 am

Jay,

From your own quote, the NRA raises $200 million a year and $14.8 million is from firearms related companies. So the correct statement is that the NRA is partially funded by the firearms industry.

Recon 0311 2533

December 17th, 2012
10:12 am

Joe Lieberman is calling for a commission to discuss possible solutions. If such a commission is formed and tasked with coming up with solutions I would hope it’s not just a bunch of opinionated politicians. I think it’s best to take one step at a time the most important priority is safety for children in our schools. A best practice solution to ensure secure egress regress into the buildings. CATV surveillance and lock down systems for classrooms and hallways should there be an unauthorized breach. Armed security guards in plain clothes who appear to be school staff members but are actually well trained and capable security professionals. Lets begin by protecting our children.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:12 am

“Oh good, just what we need, another executive order. I want the Govt to take care of me, who cares about personal responsibility.”

The current situation is just fine with most conservatives. The occasional slaughter of a couple hundred first graders is just the price we pay for a free society.

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:12 am

DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
10:08 am

The 2nd Ammendment is NOT the Holy Grail…….

It is NOT the 2nd Coming Of Christ……….

It is NOT a 2nd chance at redemption…………..

It is NOT a fore gone conclusion that it won’t ever change…..

“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

Justice Antonin Scalia in District of Columbus v. Heller (

Is it safe to assume that you agree with everything that Scalia says, or just cherry picking?

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
10:13 am

granny- Ok so if guns don’t kill people, people kill people, are you advocating “people” control?

obama says,”What?”.

Liberals: only for “choice” if you are talking about abortion. Compromise means do exactly as I say.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:13 am

More than 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million to the Fairfax, Virginia-based group, according to the NRA’s own list for a donor program that began in 2005.”

So you dont think memmbership dues from 4 million plus members funds the NRA? IM LAUGHING AT YOU NOW.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
10:14 am

the other half of your brain
Oh good, just what we need, another executive order. I want the Govt to take care of me, who cares about personal responsibility.
…………………………………………………………….
excellent choice.

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
10:15 am

“Only really dumb people can be convinced by really dumb arguments.”

But that’s all the left is suggesting

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:15 am

Only really dumb people can be convinced by really dumb arguments.

True. And those are the people you are convincing every day with your opinion pieces.

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:15 am

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:12 am

“Oh good, just what we need, another executive order. I want the Govt to take care of me, who cares about personal responsibility.”

The current situation is just fine with most conservatives. The occasional slaughter of a couple hundred first graders is just the price we pay for a free society.

The World has been slaughtering people of all ages since the beginning of time, and guess what pal, it ain’t ever going to change.

td

December 17th, 2012
10:15 am

All this holier than thou BS from the progressives that are crying about protecting children from those evil guns that killed 20 children Friday by banning guns but in the same breath say nothing about the 2000 children that will be killed by their mothers today.

Our President says we have to change our laws and take away Constitutional rights from all law abiding citizens because of 20 deaths but defends to his death a made up Constitutional right that kills 2000 children per day.

You progressives are a freaking joke.

oops

December 17th, 2012
10:15 am

trigger locks

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
10:15 am

Debbie, I haven’t seen anyone here advocating unlimited gun rights.

Godless, in my eyes they have. They don’t want to put a ban on banana clips, they don’t want to put a ban on assault weapons, they don’t want to put a ban on the number of guns a person/”hunter” can posses. Yet they DO want to do “something”. I’m curious to know what that “something” will be that they’ll allow to get done.

As a gun owner, I support sensible gun laws. I do not support passing laws just for the sake of making people feel that they “have done something.”

Most of all the comments I’ve read on here are about passing sensible laws. And most of all the ones against them can not give one reason as to why these laws would not be sensible……………………..other than quoting the 2nd Amendment ad nauseum.

Mike Fitzgerald

December 17th, 2012
10:16 am

Mr. Bookman,

The NRA posts a list of businesses they promote among their membership. I have decided to avoid doing business with these companies until they discontinue their relationship with the NRA. I also look forward to an NRA membership card return party.

http://www.nra.org/affiliates.aspx

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
10:16 am

godless- I do not support passing laws just for the sake of making people feel that they “have done something.”

Nancy Pelosi says,”What?”.

I think the whole Demwit party just rolled over.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:17 am

The Norway killer used an American-made Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic carbine, augmented by 30-round magazines that he purchased from a U.S. supplier.

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
10:17 am

“Liberals: only for “choice” if you are talking about abortion.”

You forgot: It’s ok to kill a child. Just don’t do it with an assault weapon.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:17 am

“The World has been slaughtering people of all ages since the beginning of time, and guess what pal, it ain’t ever going to change”

I guess the difference is, conservatives are fine with it, the rest of us believe we can do better

the cat

December 17th, 2012
10:18 am

JHM-wonderful post and I thank you.

Chris Salzmann

December 17th, 2012
10:18 am

This is hopeful from “Morning Joe” this morning:

________________________________________________________________________________
West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, an “A” rated member of the NRA, on Monday questioned the availability of assault weapons and suggested Friday’s shooting in Newtown, Conn. has opened up the issue for debate.

Manchin said past debates about assault weapons have been shut down over a fear of destroying Second Amendment rights. But the senator said last Friday’s shooting changed all that. “The massacre of so many innocent children has changed—has changed America. We’ve never seen this happen,” Manchin said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

Manchin issued criticism of assault weapons, saying, “I don’t know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. I don’t know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. I mean, these are things that need to be talked about.”

Manchin, who received an endorsement from the NRA’s Political Victory Fund for his 2012 re-election race, is one of the most prominent gun rights advocates in the Senate to speak about assault weapons in the wake of the shooting.
________________________________________________________________________________

Steve

December 17th, 2012
10:19 am

Sorry, gun nuts and Confederates, you are outnumbered now by people who are more grounded in reality. Change is a coming, and don’t worry, we are not going to take away your handguns and rifles.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
10:19 am

Is it safe to assume that you agree with everything that Scalia says, or just cherry picking?

Is it safe to assume that YOU agree with everything that Scalia says, or are YOU just cherry picking?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:19 am

And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
10:19 am

No td, you’re a joke.

Even Scalia the activist says the the 2nd amendment isn’t unlimited.

Once you start to support the children you would sheppard from the womb, then you have room to screech…

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:20 am

td — “a made up Constitutional right”

I love when conservatives start going down this road. It’s the first signal that they’ve run out of ideas and are about to start dispensing gallons and gallons of glurge in an attempt to make you share the same butthurt that they themselves are experiencing.

oops

December 17th, 2012
10:20 am

Jay 10:17 – I stand corrected. Thanks.

td

December 17th, 2012
10:21 am

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:17 am

“The World has been slaughtering people of all ages since the beginning of time, and guess what pal, it ain’t ever going to change”

I guess the difference is, conservatives are fine with it, the rest of us believe we can do better

Your protection of killing 2000 children per day for a Constitutional right VS the tragic deaths of 20 children as a cost to protecting a Constitutional right. Now tell us again whose heart is more hard?

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
10:21 am

You progressives are a freaking joke.

Says our resident psychopath.

td
December 15th, 2012
10:23 pm

After the law (criminalizing abortion) is changed I would hope their are penalties in place to fit the crime. Personally I would advocate a murder change and since it would be with malice and could have been prevented in the first place then the death penalty would certainly be on the table.

Go back to the Dark Ages where you belong.

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
10:21 am

Mike F,
Thus far it’s just been the usual suspects here screeching about the usual things. The NRA has been silent. It will be interesting to see what their reaction is. I don’t have high hopes, but let’s wait and see what they have to say.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
10:22 am

Most of all the comments I’ve read on here are about passing sensible laws. And most of all the ones against them can not give one reason as to why these laws would not be sensible

Definitions of sensible will vary, but IMHO, laws that might make a difference should be considered so. No-one here has proposed any.

retired early

December 17th, 2012
10:22 am

Hunter’s guns are limited to 3 bullets or shotgun shells when hunting ducks, deer, dove and quail, etc.
They are fined if caught without their guns “plugged” to limit it’s capacity. There is no justification for allowing assault weapons to have such extreme shot capacity. So, when humans are the target, there’s no limit, but when it’s wild game, there is….

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:23 am

How can Mr Bookman justify Obama handing out weapons to drug cartels while condemning LAWABIDING AMERICAN CITIZENS right to own the same weapons? TOTAL HYPOCRICY!

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
10:23 am

Keith @ 9:07

In case you didn’t figure it out, that was in reference to the totally off-topic rant about F&F and Obama. Hence the reference to the part of the post that I was addressing with my comment.

—————————

Or maybe it could be the fact that our government sold over 2000 of these assault rifles to ultra violent Mexican drug cartels.

When you have to lie to make a point, you don’t really have a point to make.

—————————

Notice something about that headline? Security always get “upgraded” AFTER a tragedy.

That’s because the will to avoid the extra costs seem to always outweigh the “potential” benefits. Hindsight is always 20/20.

td

December 17th, 2012
10:23 am

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
10:19 am

No td, you’re a joke.

Even Scalia the activist says the the 2nd amendment isn’t unlimited.

I guarantee you there are more laws on the books that restrict the 2nd Amendment rights then there are laws that restrict privacy rights.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
10:23 am

The real terrorists here are ourselves.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:24 am

The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)

That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget.

Rightwing Troll

December 17th, 2012
10:24 am

“And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?”

Why? That problem has been addressed. The TSA, whom you wingnuts take every opportunity to deride, does a fairly good job to insuring they don’t get on planes anymore.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:24 am

R. W. Troll — “Thus far it’s just been the usual suspects here screeching about the usual things. The NRA has been silent. It will be interesting to see what their reaction is. I don’t have high hopes, but let’s wait and see what they have to say.”

I suspect the NRA will follow their past behavior in cases like these.

1) terrrible public shooting takes place

2) public argument and handwringing

3) NRA has no comment, keeps collective head down, waits for issue to blow over

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:24 am

Gun rights advocates are clearly fighting the wrong battle here. Let the people have their restrictions on guns and their limited effectiveness for such a high price and focus instead on building up your cache of hand grenades. You don’t even have to have good aim with those babies and they’re also much more cost effective when purchased in bulk. Contact your local NRA rep for more details.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:24 am

td – once again, you are mistaken. I have never killed a child. But hey, thanks, it’s always nice to be accused of child-murder by an idiot.

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
10:25 am

Keith, misspelling words that an average seventh grader would not, does not lend any credibility to your bizarre, semi-literate screeds.

td

December 17th, 2012
10:25 am

retired early

December 17th, 2012
10:22 am

Hunter’s guns are limited to 3 bullets or shotgun shells when hunting ducks, deer, dove and quail, etc.

Not meant to be a factual statement.

The 2nd Amendment has nothing what so ever to do with hunting.

Chris Salzmann

December 17th, 2012
10:25 am

Keith @10:19 “And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?”

They are if you want to take one on a plane.

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:26 am

From 2001 to 2007 there were 16,141 deaths caused by texting.
in 2000 there were 6,466 children that died in car accidents.
in 2009 there were 10,839 people that died from drunk drivers.

Texting while driving is bad, how many of you do it?
Drinking while driving is bad how many of you do it?

Let me guess none of you, riiiggght!

Recon 0311 2533

December 17th, 2012
10:26 am

This has gotten absurd. The left wants to blame conservatives the NRA along with guns and completely ignore improving our mental health treatment systems, addressing violence in movies, television and violent video games.

Lynnie Gal

December 17th, 2012
10:26 am

Grasshopper–your callous remarks about demonstrations of public grief over the massacre of first graders–and calling presidential speeches and news reports “grief-porn” is sickening.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:26 am

Keith — “And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?”

Dude, they ARE banned on airplanes.

I was in Washington on 9/11, and I had to mail my Victorinox knife back to myself here at home. Wasn’t sure if they were even going to let it come home in my *checked* baggage.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
10:26 am

“And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too”

No, they didn’t. They used an airplane to kill them.

Rick C

December 17th, 2012
10:28 am

Are the cons even capable of staying on topic here? All I see are ridiculous false equivalencies about abortions, cars, knives, texting, etc.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:30 am

“Drinking while driving is bad how many of you do it?”

Con logic: If something can kill people, it’s all right if everthing kills people. WTF does that have to do with guns?

Jays brain

December 17th, 2012
10:30 am

Yep let’s ban those darn guns buts lets give child predators and molesters a slap on the wrist while claiming you are doing this to protect children. BULLHOCKEY

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:30 am

“in 2009 there were 10,839 people that died from drunk drivers.”

Again, Other Half, in 1982, 21,000 people were killed by drunk drivers. By tightening laws and regulations, we cut that number almost in half and saved almost 10,000 lives a year.

Not by banning cars.

Not by banning alcohol.

Merely by regulating their use and availablity and by tighter enforcement.

clem

December 17th, 2012
10:30 am

i think there needs to be a study on why some folks think so irrationally yet possess a modicum of intelligence.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:31 am

“This has gotten absurd. The left wants to blame conservatives the NRA along with guns and completely ignore improving our mental health treatment systems, addressing violence in movies, television and violent video games”

Okay, you have a point. Do you have a suggestion, or is this just deflection?

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:31 am

Jat the MasterBaiter, geez I like the name Stands gave you,
You can probably get another weeks worth of blogs on this subject and guess what nothing will get done.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 17th, 2012
10:32 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:24 am

The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)

That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget.
—————————————————————————————————————————
.
When the NRA has the money to buy Obama (and congress) like the Insurance companies did………and then FORCE every one to buy their products via Government gun-point…………then ..and only then……..will the NRA need be feared.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:32 am

Improving mental-health services will require raising taxes.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
10:32 am

Typical morning on the Jay Bookman page:

Liberals: only for “choice” if you are talking about abortion.”

You forgot: It’s ok to kill a child. Just don’t do it with an assault weapon

We really are doomed.

Doomed.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
10:32 am

Debbie – 10:08

Scalia and the other Justices could rule the following:

1. Handguns may only be six shot revolvers that must have the hammer pulled back by hand with each shot. They must all be .22 caliber.

2. Rifles may be only single shot bolt-action and all .22 caliber.

3. Shotguns may be only single shot and must all be 20 guage.

If this was the law and it was enforced, gun murders would at least go down.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:33 am

Didn’t we pass some laws banning drinking and driving and impose penalties such as incarceration or removal of driving privileges or higher insurance premiums for those breaking the laws, etc. Something comparable for guns would be a start. That plus very large taxes on guns and ammo and gun manufacturers.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
10:33 am

The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.

That stuff only happens in Hollywood. I posted this link last night @ 7:07 in reference to this very same idea.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/12/15/newtown-massacre-reawakens-question-of-gun-control/?cp=all#comment-1178700

Take a look at that post then and this post now less than 16 hours later and tell me what’s the difference?

http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2012?ref=sidebar


Line of Duty Deaths: 120
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 1
Automobile accident: 24
Duty related illness: 4
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 44
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 4
Stabbed: 5
Struck by vehicle: 6
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 11

If you’re too lazy to look back, within the 16 hours that I posted that information, two more police officers were killed in the line of duty by gunfire in one shooting incident. If two officers can be killed by one gunman who gets the drop on them, how can you be sure that one average person without the training would be better?

Recon 0311 2533

December 17th, 2012
10:33 am

The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.

Mike Fitzgerald

December 17th, 2012
10:34 am

I’ve heard two good retweets lately and I’m paraphrasing: From Michael Moore, “If only the first victim (Lanza’s mother) had been a gun owner, this tragedy could have been averted.” And from an NBC viewer I believe, “one guy tries to blow up an airplane with a shoe bomb and we all have to take off our shoes at the airport but mass shootings occur 41 times in schools in 12 years and nothing is done.”

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:34 am

The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)

That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget. {YOUR EARLIER POST: More than 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million to the Fairfax, Virginia-based group, according to the NRA’s own list for a donor program that began in 2005.”

SINCE 2005!!

NRA members also buy their products and make other contributions in addition to membership dues. That $14.5 mil since 2005 is really pretty small wouldnt you say when you consider the $200 million dollar annual budget?

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:35 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:30 am

“in 2009 there were 10,839 people that died from drunk drivers.”

Again, Other Half, in 1982, 21,000 people were killed by drunk drivers. By tightening laws and regulations, we cut that number almost in half and saved almost 10,000 lives a year.

Not by banning cars.

Not by banning alcohol.

Merely by regulating their use and availablity and by tighter enforcement.

How in the hell do you regulate the use of alachol? and the Texting has gone out of control.

Stricter laws have helped some in drivers caught with alcohol but it’s still out of control.

I posted yesterday, 25 years for anyone caught using a deadly weapon committing a crime and 10 years if caught carrying a concealed weapon. You need to scare the criminals into reality.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:36 am

Recon — “The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.”

And Commandante Broad-Brush strikes again!

:roll:

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
10:36 am

A writer mentioned that the NRA keeps its minions confused by preaching that “gun control” has everything to do with the 2nd amendment and our right to bear arms when, in fact, it doesn’t.

It’s two related but separate issues.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/15/yes_we_can_have_sane_gun_control/

td

December 17th, 2012
10:36 am

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:33 am

Didn’t we pass some laws banning drinking and driving and impose penalties such as incarceration or removal of driving privileges or higher insurance premiums for those breaking the laws, etc. Something comparable for guns would be a start.

There are already those laws on the book. A criminal gets extra time for committing a crime with a gun (as it should be).

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:37 am

Arm Mexican drug cartels, disarm the American people. Liberal logic at its finest.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:37 am

I heard the latest in birth control pills now have an effective kill radius of 30 meters. Why are we talking about guns. It’s those abortion pills that are the real killers. :roll:

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:38 am

The other half — “How in the hell do you regulate the use of alachol?”

Lots of ways.

Restrictions on time/place/amount of purchase, restricting purchase to state stores only (still in force in several states), imposition of levels of offense (e.g. less than 0.8 and over 0.8 BAL, etc.

clem

December 17th, 2012
10:39 am

recon proves some folks do not even have modicum of intelligence.

td

December 17th, 2012
10:39 am

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
10:33 am

The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.

That stuff only happens in Hollywood. I posted this link last night @ 7:07 in reference to this very same idea.

What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:40 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:32 am

Improving mental-health services will require raising taxes.

Jay, If we could trust our parasitic politicans to spend our tax dollars wisely most people wouldn’t mind, but let’s be honest it will never happen.

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
10:40 am

tax ammunition like it’s a toxic chemical. Make it soooo expensive no one will be willing to fire a shot without taking out a loan.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:40 am

Keith — “Arm Mexican drug cartels, disarm the American people. Liberal logic at its finest.”

I love how, when your argument gets knocked down, you back off and come in again with a bulldada non-sequitur that no one here either said or thought. :D

Ed Johnson

December 17th, 2012
10:41 am

Can we not reduce the Newtown CT tragedy to subliminal messaging by doing the usual of putting a particular single face on it? How about a 4 x 5 featuring of all the kids?

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
10:41 am

My Gawd, but some of y’all make me sick to my stomach. You assault weapon nuts, just ask yourself one question. What if it was your child in that school shot multiple time with a Bushmaster?

You can give no rational reason as to why there should not be a total ban on assault type weapons. None.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
10:41 am

**The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.**

Everything in your world is blame the left. In this case it all leads back to the mother having guns in a household with a mentally troubled son. There’s nothing left or right about it, just a very poor choice on her part…

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:42 am

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:38 am

The other half — “How in the hell do you regulate the use of alachol?”

Lots of ways.

Restrictions on time/place/amount of purchase, restricting purchase to state stores only (still in force in several states), imposition of levels of offense (e.g. less than 0.8 and over 0.8 BAL, etc.

So the guy stocks up on his booze, and buys it when the time is right. That’s just plain nuts.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:42 am

Most of the comments from the right seem to fall into the “massacres happen, get used to it” or “cold dead fingers” camps.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
10:42 am

Recon: “The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people”

As usual, only the right wing correctly notes that what we’re dealing with here is a radical breakdown of the social order, and of the human being that is at the center of it. But also, as usual, the right wing has the specific diagnosis completely backwards.

It is not the “radical left” that is at fault, it is global capitalism, in particular, the high-octane mainlined neoliberal capitalism that has been in the ascendancy since Thatcher and Reagan, and since the 2008 financial crisis has moved decisively to consolidate its hold over ever more of our lives.

It’s capitalism that is at the root of the overturning of basic human structures of meaning and identity formation, and the resulting unleashing of violence in every more baffling, random forms.

YDD

December 17th, 2012
10:42 am

Banning the sale of assault weapons and high volume ammunition as well as making no exceptions to background checks are such common sense ideas that I don’t see how anyone could oppose them. This conversation seems so lacking in any rational perspective that it seems surreal. Why does one need an assault weapon or this type of ammunition? Do you trust everyone enough to give them the means to slaughter large numbers of people?

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:43 am

What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?

You might have been calling her officer instead of teacher. I heard the pay and benefits are a lot better.

Citizen of the World

December 17th, 2012
10:43 am

I usually try to avoid “anger” — I heard it described as a secondary emotion caused by fear, hurt or frustration, which made sense to me — but in this case, I’m mad as hell. And just as mad at myself as anyone that I have not done more, said more to fight for more stringent gun control laws. Every senseless mass murder I say to myself, I need to write my representatives, march in the streets, something! But I haven’t. Shame on me.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
10:43 am

According to USA Today Timeline: 9:40 AM Shooting at school reported to police. 10:23 AM Police enter school. The shooter could have massacred 26 people with a single-shot rifle in 43 minutes.

High capacity clip and rate of fire irrelevant, but that’s what you all want to go after.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:44 am

“I love how, when your argument gets knocked down, you back off and come in again with a bulldada non-sequitur that no one here either said or thought. ”

Keith was starting to wonder how unreality-based his comments have to be to get a response on this blog anymore. Attention-trolling at its finest.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:44 am

The point is that the same people that found it acceptable for Obama to arm criminals, even condemning those wanting to investigate it, are now demanding lawabiding citizens have their Constitutionally GUARANTEED rights restricted. Did Bookman,Schumer, YOU etc demand accountability for FF? Nope.

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:45 am

Finn de Siècle (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
10:40 am

tax ammunition like it’s a toxic chemical. Make it soooo expensive no one will be willing to fire a shot without taking out a loan.

Yep, and while your at it, tax cell phones 10k each so no one texts and why not 15k for each bottle of booze. Damn those were great ideas.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
10:45 am

What is truly dumbfouning that there are now petitions to stop any petitions on an Assault Weapons Ban as unconstitutional (not true) with the idiotic arguments of “Due to the recent tragic events it has spiked a fear among the people who are against the law abiding citizens of America who support their right to amendment II of the constitution if we do not stand up for our ownership and rights now, they WILL be taken away! The Law abiding gun community had nothing to do with the acts committed by these sick individuals but in this current environment, legislation will be passed restricting gun ownership if we do nothing and remain silent

And then there is this failure of reason and logic: We ask President Obama to stand with law abiding gun owners in this time of tragedy. Guns laws could not have prevented Adam Lanza from killing 27 innocents. The real question is what made this disturbed young man into a murderer of children. Where is the outrage at the violent video games he played? A piece of plastic and steel doesn’t have a will Mr. President. Evil is not law abiding, and Adam Lanza stole those guns after failing to buy one legally. it is America’s law abiding gun owners who would have died with Victoria Soto and Dawn Hochsprung defending the children with only our bodies on December 14th, because it was already illegal to bring a gun into that school. Please don’t pander to the politics Mr. President. A feeding frenzy of new gun legislation is not the answer.

And this piece of stupidity (hmmm, amazing how they will argue to cut pensions, bargaining rights, salaries but then they want them to stand in harms way): Ex military with combat experience or from combat MOSs with very extensive training serve as armed security at all schools across the nation. Law enforcement is too short handed to carry the job plus this would help create jobs and keep veterans circulated back into the civilian working environment. 2 armed personnel at all times at school from 1hour before school starts to the last teacher or principal that leaves the school area.
But no new taxes to pay for these guards, right? There is a similar one about training teachers and arming them….the same people these cons have been badmouthing for being so bad at teaching. :roll:

And then of course the Red Dawn Brigade has their own petition: Ensure the Federal Government cannot and will not infringe upon the citizens of the United States of America’s Second Amendment in any way that could suppress them from defending themselves against a tyrannical government, foreign or domestic. This includes firearms, magazines, clips, ammunition, and suppressors.

All of these petitions on now on the WH website. But hey, the good news is that PERHAPS, just perhaps, we can finally have a discussion about sensible gun laws and gun safety.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:45 am

“I posted yesterday, 25 years for anyone caught using a deadly weapon committing a crime and 10 years if caught carrying a concealed weapon. You need to scare the criminals into reality.”

That would be of no use. Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences. You also mention texting. Texting while driving is banned in Georgia and many other states.

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
10:46 am

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:19 am

And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?
__________________________________________________________________________________

Boxcutters ARE banned on airplanes now. Got any more brilliant commentary?

hiram

December 17th, 2012
10:46 am

Here is the most powerful gun lobby in the U.S.

http://www.freedom-group.com/

The Freedom Group is owned by Ceberus Capital Management.

http://www.cerberuscapital.com/

If you disagree with manufacturing and marketing assault rifles to idiots, check your pension funds and retirement investments, and purge this company.

oops

December 17th, 2012
10:46 am

Let’s be honest here. Automatic weapon owners are crazy people. Crazy people don’t want more mental health regulation or controls on guns because those will keep the guns out of the hands of those crazy people.

Trying to buy an automatic weapon should probably mean you win a free ticket to see a psychologist. Or a one way ticket to Alaska.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
10:47 am

“**The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.**”

Actually, Einstein, this mother was likely a FAR RIGHT paranoid who watched Glen Beck and ate up right wing conspiracy theories…hence all those un-necessary guns at her home in that safe, quiet little town.

oops

December 17th, 2012
10:47 am

“Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences.”

Especially suicide mission ones that are completely loco.

Trigger locks.

saywhat?

December 17th, 2012
10:48 am

Line of Duty Deaths: 120
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 1
Automobile accident: 24
Duty related illness: 4
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 44
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 4
Stabbed: 5
Struck by vehicle: 6
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 11
—————————–
I am surpised not to see propane tank IED on that list, given that they are such a dangerous and easy to make substitute for guns.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
10:48 am

indigo: The Bushmaster rifle is .22 caliber.

saywhat?

December 17th, 2012
10:48 am

“surprised”

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
10:49 am

Jay @ 9:56

Getting caught up, but thanks for posting that.

—————————

JKL2 @ 9:58

Is this a reference to single v. double action? We all know there is absolutely nothing you can do to adjust the trigger squeeze on a weapon.

Really? You can always modify the gun by replacing the stock trigger with one that breaks at a much lower pressure point. I would not have used “absolutely nothing” with that statement as that’s not true.

—————————

indigo @ 10:00

Exactly. What one person sees as madness, someone else may see as normal. My advice would be just to learn to live and enjoy each and every day.

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
10:49 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:45 am

“I posted yesterday, 25 years for anyone caught using a deadly weapon committing a crime and 10 years if caught carrying a concealed weapon. You need to scare the criminals into reality.”

That would be of no use. Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences. You also mention texting. Texting while driving is banned in Georgia and many other states.

Actually Jay, overall crime is down because we have more bad guys in prison than ever before.

Exactly my point, outlaw texting and it still goes on and what’s the penalty? ZIP

ATL Born and Raised

December 17th, 2012
10:49 am

@Keith The US is the largest arms dealer in the world. We armed the Taliban, too, when it was convenient for us. Now how many of those weapons are killing our soldiers? Things like this aren’t isolated to the Obama administration and I hardly think anyone here is advocating that these types of arms deals are “okay”. But they also have nothing to do with this mass shooting.

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
10:49 am

The mom was a “Prepper”.

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
10:50 am

We need to start profiling white people. Most mass executions like Friday are by white guys.

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
10:50 am

Most of the comments from the left seem to fall into the “ban anything potentially dangerous and put warning labels on everything else” or “outlawing guns will eliminate violent crime” camps.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:51 am

“High capacity clip and rate of fire irrelevant, but that’s what you all want to go after.”

If that’s true, heathen, then nothing is lost in banning high-capacity clips and firearms with high rates of fire, correct? I mean, if it’s irrelevant, as you claim. However, it sure seems to me that a lot of gun enthusiasts DO think it’s VERY relevant, since they spend a lot of money buying those things.

The Aurora Colo. killer thought it was relevant, which is why he took those weapons into the movie theater. The Newtown killer thought it was relevant, based on his choice of weaponry. The Clackamas mall shooter thought it was relevant, because he too had an AR-15. The Norway killer clearly thought it was relevant as well.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:51 am

The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)

That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget.

Someone claimed the NRA was funded by the arms industry. 14 mil since 2005, SEVEN YEARS!. A drop in the bucket to an organization with an annual budget of 200 million dollars. Do the math. 200 million times SEVEN vs. 14.5 mil.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:51 am

The other half — “So the guy stocks up on his booze, and buys it when the time is right. That’s just plain nuts.”

What’s your point? This is what Governor Perdue told folks to do when the complaints about no Sunday sales became too loud for him.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:51 am

“Yep, and while your at it, tax cell phones 10k each so no one texts and why not 15k for each bottle of booze. Damn those were great ideas.”

Other half, please read slowly – the purpose of assulat weapons is to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time – it has no other purpose. Texting deaths are tragic, but killing people is not a phone’s primary purpose. That puts assault weapons into a special class.

If you don’t understand, please read the preceding again. Or post a question about the parts you don’t understand – we’re here to help. :)

saywhat?

December 17th, 2012
10:51 am

The mom was a “Prepper”.
——————————–
Apparently the crazy apple doesn’t fall far from the crazy tree.

clem

December 17th, 2012
10:52 am

that’s odd on timeline as a teacher said on tv this morning the time between when she heard pops and someone on intercom came to when police arrived was fairly soon (which doesn’t seem like 43 minutes)

Common Sense

December 17th, 2012
10:52 am

“Tell that to the two armed police officers shot in the head and killed last night in Kansas while responding to a suspicious vehicle call.”

Would their chances have been better if they were unarmed?

pcBobby

December 17th, 2012
10:52 am

I like the drunk driving analogy. Indeed no jurisdiction will eradicate drunk driving tragedies, but with awareness, the laws no doubt reduced those tragedies. Now, that’s “common sense.” It’s insane how the far right hijacked the term, “common sense.”

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
10:53 am

What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?

As Jay said above: dumb arguments and all …

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
10:53 am

The shooter could have massacred 26 people with a single-shot rifle in 43 minutes.

You’ve clearly never used a single shot long arm before. Some adult would have dashed his brains against the floor with a heavy object (a kid’s desk would do) before he’d loaded the third or fourth round.

ndigo: The Bushmaster rifle is .22 caliber.

erm… you do understand the difference between center fire and rim fire shells and… oh, never mind. I think some who are far gun-nuttier than Yrs Trly should get to have their way with you on this one.

Krystal'sBalls

December 17th, 2012
10:53 am

Let me first acknowledge that I own one if these very .223 caliber Bushmasters, and I do so with deliberation. However, I also do so with sound mind and conscience. I am of the opinion that the U.S. has a bit of soul searching to do. It is very easy to be appalled at what has taken place in CT, because based on the imagery and news reports no one ever expects it to happen “there”. The truth of the matter though is that in a society overrun by selfishness, where people only desire to exist in their own little bubbles and all else be damned, it is no wonder we see these events with more frequency.

I have to be honest about something. I went back last week and reviewed the documented occurences of these mass shootings since Obama has become President, and please understand I am not trying to politicize this thing, but over about the past 15 years the U.S. has been minimal – until he took office has averaged only about 2-3 a year. Since he was elected, we have had 19, SEVEN of them taking place this year alone! Since 2008 we have allowed our anger to go to new levels, partly because too many people in this country have this crazy notion that someone is trying to take it over. As a result, we have seen unprecedented spikes in firearms and ammo sales, caustic rhetoric, violent imagery and so many other negative things. What’s worse, people tout it as their RIGHT to be so, again all else be damned. For the first time in my life I saw people carrying guns and rifles near a Presidential function in 2009 saying they’re “taking our country back”. Sick really and there is no justification for such a thing. Yet people justified it.

We cannot continue to spend our time dodging constructive dialogue. There are a lot of questions to be answered about this thing. I just hope people will wake up and realize that the “chickens coming home to roost” (as Rev. Jeremiah Wright notoriously stated and was lambasted for it) is a real phenomenon when so much negative energy is put out there into the world. Call it Karma or whatever you must if you believe in that. It needs to be fixed and fixed asap.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
10:53 am

Really? You can always modify the gun by replacing the stock trigger with one that breaks at a much lower pressure point. I would not have used “absolutely nothing” with that statement as that’s not true.

My new Remington has an exterior screw for adjusting the trigger pull weight. Suweet!

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:53 am

Keith — “The point is that the same people that found it acceptable for Obama to arm criminals, even condemning those wanting to investigate it, are now demanding lawabiding citizens have their Constitutionally GUARANTEED rights restricted.”

And what’s one got to do with the other? NOTHING.

“Did Bookman,Schumer, YOU etc demand accountability for FF? Nope.”

You don’t speak for me, Champ, and you sure can’t read my mind.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
10:54 am

Actually Jay, overall crime is down because we have more bad guys in prison than ever before.

Last time I heard, that’s hard to do without first imposing laws to restrict the acts that landed them there in the first place.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
10:54 am

What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?

There’s a 50/50 chance that she even gets a shot off. Action is always faster than reaction. If the shooter is already in the hall ready to fire, he only has to squeeze the trigger to shoot her. If she’s coming out into the hallway, she has to acquire her target and ready herself to shoot before she can shoot him. Nine times out of 10, she likely loses.

I proposed that people go out to a paintball center and try all these solutions to see how effective they are in a real-life stressful event. One thing that changes between thinking the “what if’s” vs actually being in that situation is that you lose fine motor skills in stressful situations. If that teacher hasn’t trained her gross motor skills to react in defense in a split second, she’s not gonna automatically respond just because the situation needs her to.

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
10:55 am

Why can’t I buy a howitzer and tank? Those are just arms.

Ronald Reagan

December 17th, 2012
10:56 am

Was that the same type of guns used to kill our citizens & soldiers in BENGHAZI? Maybe we should also consider outlawing a Presidential candidate from allowing our people to be killed & downplaying it for political reasons!

Steve

December 17th, 2012
10:56 am

When reading some of the uneducated posts here, I wonder – has the right wing purpously starved our school systems to the point where half of the population is borderline mentally retarded?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
10:56 am

While I am for restricting access to high capacity clips and assault weapons, I believe one of the quickest ways we can work to bring some sense to all of this is to start TAXING bullets and weapons. The money can be used to increase security, create victim funds, fund bullet proof vests for law enforcement. And for those who would whine about the costs of training with guns or losing out of their sport, we can have a lower fee for bullets fired at a gun range or for certain types of hunting rifles in season along with microstamping bullets so they can be traced to the purchasers. You have your “constitutional right” to your gun but you should be responsible and pay for the actual costs of your entitlement without taxpayer subsidy.

GT

December 17th, 2012
10:56 am

A man gets though security with a shoe bomb, unsuccessful in his execution, and we are all subject to our shoes being examined, off our feet, at every airport in the world. More people died of gun violence in this country last year than the entire history of the Viet Nam War yet not one finger is lifted to prevent a problem we share with very few other countries. Even a woman that has 15 kids figures out somewhere along the line where those kids are coming from.

ATL Born and Raised

December 17th, 2012
10:56 am

@Crazy Peeps

I’m looking into enriched uranium myself…

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:57 am

“What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?”

Oh, I don’t know. What do YOU think would have happened if a schoolteacher armed with a pistol was surprised by an experienced intruder such as Adam Lanza, armed with an AR-15 equipped with a 30-round magazine?

Again, just last night two trained, professional and armed police officers were shot in the head and killed in Kansas by a single suspect when they were responding to a “suspicious vehicle” call. These Rambo fantasies are pathetic. Firearms can be useful in defending a home from invasion, but out in the world the criminal with the element of surprise has a huge advantage.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
10:58 am

C. Peeps — “Why can’t I buy a howitzer and tank? Those are just arms.”

Why, it’s because your Second Amendment rights have been abridged by Teh Librulz.

If not for them, you could have a mortar range and a 50-cal HMG set up in your back yard. And you could be nitrating glycerine in your kitchen sink for grins, too.

/sarc

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
10:58 am

Was that the same type of guns used to kill our citizens & soldiers in BENGHAZI?

I am having one of those “I know I shouldn’t laugh, but…” moments.

The deflecturbation is fast and furious here, innit? Best get a ‘brolly for the spunk shower.

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
10:58 am

Brosephus- Really? You can always modify the gun by replacing the stock trigger with one that breaks at a much lower pressure point.

That was the point I was making.. You missed the sarcasm addressed at the previous poster saying the Bushmaster was evil because it had a “soft trigger”.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
10:58 am

What happens when you people start screaming about banning guns? More people buy more of them. So AR15s are flying off the shelves at gunstores thanks to people like Mr Bookman. And if the ban is reinstated, they will still have them. They may even buy several in order to sell some if your ban is reinstated. May be a good investment right now. Kinda defeats your purpose doesnt it?

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:59 am

“Was that the same type of guns used to kill our citizens & soldiers in BENGHAZI?”

Your lack of anything intelligent to contribute is acknowledged.

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
10:59 am

ATL born.

I want a fighter jet. Missiles included. And a few shoulder fired rocket launchers too.

Steve

December 17th, 2012
10:59 am

clem

December 17th, 2012
10:59 am

the chairman for cerberus is dan quayle…says it all

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:00 am

Keith — “And if the ban is reinstated, they will still have them. They may even buy several in order to sell some if your ban is reinstated. May be a good investment right now. Kinda defeats your purpose doesnt it?”

You seem to miss the qualitative difference in a *sales* ban and an *ownership* ban.

ATL Born and Raised

December 17th, 2012
11:00 am

@Crazy Peeps

Yeah, I need it so scare away coyotes on my farm. Or something.

td

December 17th, 2012
11:00 am

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
10:51 am

“Other half, please read slowly – the purpose of assulat weapons is to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time – it has no other purpose. ”

To be factually accurate then you must mention that .223 caliber weapons are legal to hunt with also.

Main point is that you are absolutely right and is the reason they are important for law abiding Americans to be able to have so that the intent of the 2nd Amendment is in full force.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
11:00 am

erm… you do understand the difference between center fire and rim fire shells and… oh, never mind. I think some who are far gun-nuttier than Yrs Trly should get to have their way with you on this one.

Is it true or not that the Bushmaster is a 22 caliber? (and I certainly know the difference between centerfire and rimfire.) As long as indigo was listing the requirements for the guns to be allowed he/she might as well be informed.

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
11:01 am

“Someone claimed the NRA was funded by the arms industry. 14 mil since 2005, SEVEN YEARS!. A drop in the bucket to an organization with an annual budget of 200 million dollars. Do the math. 200 million times SEVEN vs. 14.5 mil.”

Haven’t you already been over this once? So “someone” claimed it? Well, then that “someone” was wrong.

“Some” people also claim that the left wants to ban “all” guns. They are wrong too. So what’s your point?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:01 am

Another income stream the NRA utilizes that has nothing to do with membership dues and the industry.

http://www.nragive.com/#/ringoffreedom

When people die their collections go to the NRA for future sale.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
11:01 am

Once we elect a God fearing, gun-toting, antiqued white ultra-conservative male as our president, all of our fears will melt away and then the market will be flooded with cheap AR15’s that no one wants. Our land will once again be secure against those that would harm our constitution. Or something like that. I may have even heard Paul Broun use those exact words but I can’t be sure since I try not to listen to such “fruitcakes”.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:02 am

C. Peeps — “And a few shoulder fired rocket launchers too.”

Are you talking about LAWs or something more in the surface-to-air line, like a Stinger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:03 am

ATL born

You can definitely get the coyotes with a uranium bomb.

It’ll get most varmints. You may have a few cockroaches left though.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
11:04 am

gh @ 11.00, I’m sure you know the diff, it’s just that when one hears the words “twenty two caliber” one generally assumes you are talking about the kind of ammo that goes in a (say) good ol’ Nylon 66.

and I figured indigo knew this as well.

(and yes, I know that a Nylon 66 can, conceivably, take down a moose.)

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:04 am

ATL B & R — “Yeah, I need it so scare away coyotes on my farm. Or something.”

May I recommend Claymore mines with tripwires? :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_mine

Tman

December 17th, 2012
11:04 am

“Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences.”
It sure keeps them off the streets longer assuming we convict them in the first place, which is a whole ‘nuther discussion.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
11:05 am

If everyone carried a gun, it would be just like the Old West! Cool! Nobody ever got shot in the Old West! We’d all be safe! That’s a GREAT idea!

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
11:05 am

I am surpised not to see propane tank IED on that list, given that they are such a dangerous and easy to make substitute for guns.

Well what do you know, I have my own little dumb stalker here back for more. Go hump somebody else’s leg for attention today, sport. (h/t Kamchak)

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:06 am

What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?

+++++++

I think surprise would have been on the principal’s side. And with a shotgun instead of a pistol the chances of a hit would have been much better than 50-50. And a lot better than zero, which is what her chances were without a weapon.

hiram

December 17th, 2012
11:06 am

The second amendment “protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms.”

Arms is short for armaments(military weapons and equipment).

Therefore, shouldn’t I have the right to own hand grenades, artillery, tanks, F-16s, ballistic missles with nuclear warheads, or battleships?

It’s the same 1st grade logic that I see here. It’s too ridiculous to argue about.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
11:06 am

“Are you talking about LAWs or something more in the surface-to-air line, like a Stinger?”

One of each, please…

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:06 am

Once we elect a God fearing, gun-toting, antiqued white ultra-conservative male as our president, all of our fears will melt away and then the market will be flooded with cheap AR15’s that no one wants. Our land will once again be secure against those that would harm our constitution. Or something like that. I may have even heard Paul Broun use those exact words but I can’t be sure since I try not to listen to such “fruitcakes”.

The market is being flooded right now

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
11:07 am

JKL2

I missed the sarcasm big time in your post. My bad.

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
11:07 am

“What happens when you people start screaming about banning guns? More people buy more of them. So AR15s are flying off the shelves at gunstores thanks to people like Mr Bookman.”

Is this similar to those on the right claiming after President Obama was 1st elected that he was “coming after everyone’s guns” so those AR15’s went flying off the shelves because all of you right wingers were buying them? Or is it also similar when the same thing happened when he was reelected, because he was “coming after your guns” again? Who exactly was saying he “coming after our guns?” Those on the right or left?

Could you clarify that? I mean since you blamed those guns for flying off the shelves on Bookman and all….

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:08 am

A man not in Gwinnett County tried to kill himself with a 22 a coupld of years ago. The bullets would not penetrate his skull.

td

December 17th, 2012
11:08 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
10:57 am

“What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?”

Oh, I don’t know. What do YOU think would have happened if a schoolteacher armed with a pistol was surprised by an experienced intruder such as Adam Lanza, armed with an AR-15 equipped with a 30-round magazine?

My point Jay is that this teacher went out into the hall and attempted to stop this killer with nothing in her hands and she died. How much would her odds have went up going out with a weapon? Also, this morning on the news the police said the killer committed suicide when he heard the police arrived when he still had over 200 rounds left.

Now I can not read this killers mind but a good assumption would be that he was scared of the police coming with their guns so if this teacher had a gun then maybe he would have killed himself before he could have killed all those children.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
11:08 am

“Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences.”
It sure keeps them off the streets longer assuming we convict them in the first place, which is a whole ‘nuther discussion.

Nope. Most of these mass murderers appear to be anticipating their own death as part of their action. So there is no deterrent effect of a death penalty. Crimes of passion are not deterred when logic fails or emotions overrun. And of course, there is the whole “mentally deranged” are not held responsible because they do not have capacity.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
11:09 am

Length of prison sentences has next to ZERO value as a deterrent. By definition, these are people at the edge of the social order, who have already fallen off the edge. They’ve already voluntarily taken onto themselves a fate far worse than anything the legal system can mete out. They’re, as it were, one step ahead of that.

JKL2

December 17th, 2012
11:09 am

Jay- If that’s true, heathen, then nothing is lost in banning high-capacity clips and firearms with high rates of fire, correct?

By high rate of fire you mean one bullet per trigger squeeze. Should I be outlawed because I have faster reflexes than you?

Magazines are incredibly complicated machines. I’m sure criminals will never be able to adapt the technology to make such an intricate device or modify an existing one to hold more ammunition…

Jefferson

December 17th, 2012
11:10 am

Shotguns and Bolt Action Rifles should be all the guns anyone needs, all others along with ammo should be illegal.

Instant jail for possesion, 30 days min. If nothing else the cost will go up.

Legal guns are the tools these nuts are using.

NRA The World Is Watching What You Do and What You Say

December 17th, 2012
11:12 am

@Morality?

December 17th, 2012
8:35 am
Last night Obama used a tragedy to push the camel’s nos under the tent.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The last camel in the line…..

walks as fast as the first…..

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:12 am

Stevie Ray “People say people kill people….I say without guns it would be difficult to kill on a mass scale without bomb making capacity. Home invasions affect about 3% of homes in US…I note that there are 310,000,000 non-military guns in private ownership in the US…

Why do people need them? If so, why not keep them at a gun club? Too late for pontificating on this as we all know we can’t confiscate..”

I would suspect that less than 3% are killed in massacres such as Newtown. What good does a gun at a gun club do? Excuse me Mr. Home Invader. I need to leave for a half an hour or so, so that I can retrieve my firearm?

I have two guns. They are there strictly for protection. It seems to take our local law enforcement 35 minutes or more to respond to security system alarms. In 35 minutes, you will already beginning to assume room temperature.

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:12 am

hiram – In the revolutionary war, the milta turned the war around by volunteering and bringing their own guns, long rifles. They were the difference in South Carolina and North Carolina and the British retreated to Yorktown where they surrendered.

The people who wrote the Second Amendment were aware of that, and wanted to protect the milita. They were referring to the long rifles owned and furnished by the milita.

What’s the present equilivent of the long rifle used by the militia in the Carolina’s?

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:14 am

Any of our cons want to explain to us how this got passed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#Categories_of_firearms_regulated

Seems to me that it accomplished the same sort of thing most of our progressive posters want to accomplish again — and I’m not seeing any reason why a revised and updated version wouldn’t work.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
11:14 am

43 minutes between the time the first calls placed to the police and police enter the building? Anyone seen anything about this?

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:14 am

Now I can not read this killers mind but a good assumption would be that he was scared of the police coming with their guns so if this teacher had a gun then maybe he would have killed himself before he could have killed all those children.

Right. Because a teacher with a pistol = a state patrol SWAT team.

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:14 am

td – agree with you totally. Any chance is better than no chance.

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:15 am

I wonder which of us crazy peeps hasn’t already purchased their bushmaster or AR15.

I mean, those dudes are slow.

Horse has probably already left the barn on this one. But that’s no reason to turn more horses loose.

Buzz Belle

December 17th, 2012
11:15 am

I hope they pried his beloved gun out of his cold, dead hands.

I want to see a chart on the defunding of mental health issues to the rise in massacres in this country. I want to see semi automatic weapons and the right to own multiple magazine cartridges outlawed. I want gun shows outlawed. I want the NRA be forced to cough up some of their profits to the mental health community. I want our small, innocent children saved from people like this. Because you own a gun right now and don’t use it for horrible scenes like this one, doesn’t mean in five years you will not go crazy and shoot up the world. It doesn’t mean a crazy person will not get access to those guns and shoot up the world. The ONE thing every single massacre has in common is guns.

guy

December 17th, 2012
11:16 am

Maybe we could bury the anger. It would be nice. We abort babies like pulling teeth and move on as if nothing is wrong. Then there are predators who abuse and murder children. It’s sad and until we clean out our hearts and souls,nothing will change. Anger and war on the inside leads to anger and war on the outside. WWJD?

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
11:16 am

Tax the guns, ammo, and accessories. 100% excise Federal, State, and Local.
Freedom comes at a price.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:17 am

Oscar — “What’s the present equilivent of the long rifle used by the militia in the Carolina’s?”

What, you mean the primary infantry rifle for the armed forces?

It depends on the unit and loadout, but almost certainly some version or variant in the M16 family. I understand that the M16A4 is standard with the Marines and a few Army units now.

clem

December 17th, 2012
11:17 am

willie lynch

December 17th, 2012
11:17 am

Ind. man with 47 guns arrested after school threat.

Gunman shoots 1 in Texas movie theater parking lot.

2 Kansas police officers fatally shot outside market.

Police: Man cooperative after firing shots at mall.

These are headlines in today’s news. What would these stories be if there were no guns?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:17 am

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/security-heightened-at-metro-schools/nTYLb/

Security heightened at metro schools. Shouldnt security in our schools always be heightened?

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:19 am

Barking grog

Cause rich peeps are never ever crazy…..

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:19 am

What, you mean the primary infantry rifle for the armed forces?

________

No, the primary infantry rifle for the armed forces in the revoluntary war was the musket. Not the long rifle. Musket was only accurate at about twenty or thirty yards. Long rifle at 100 or more yards.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:19 am

Steve – “the Oregon Mall situation was minimized because the shooter’s gun JAMMED.” He killed himself with a jammed gun? Interesting.

Buzz Belle

December 17th, 2012
11:19 am

And what if teachers are allowed to have guns – and they go crazy! How many people were shot up by the police at the Empire State building? Trained police – to one shooter? You think MORE guns will slow down these horrific acts?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
11:20 am

Can any of you sobbing “we ‘bort de BAYBEEZ! wahh!” guys kindly produce any evidence that links higher murder rates to those nations that recognize a woman’s right to reproductive autonomy?

(I won’t hold my breath, mind you.)

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:20 am

These are headlines in today’s news. What would these stories be if there were no guns?

But there are guns and criminals will always be able to obtain them. Taking guns from lawabiding citizens will do nothing to ensure your safety as has been proven in the UK.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
11:21 am

The .223 cartridge is not your basic .22. It is a full jacketed round, high volocity and is backed by 55 grains of propellant…

“When loaded with a bullet that expands, tumbles, or fragments in tissue, this cartridge is capable of delivering devastating terminal performance.”

Now imagine that “devastating terminal performance.” on a six or seven year old’s body…

td

December 17th, 2012
11:21 am

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:14 am

Now I can not read this killers mind but a good assumption would be that he was scared of the police coming with their guns so if this teacher had a gun then maybe he would have killed himself before he could have killed all those children.

Right. Because a teacher with a pistol = a state patrol SWAT team.

You are being a jack-a$$ Jay. You know exactly what I am talking about but only want to make light of it.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:22 am

“43 minutes between the time the first calls placed to the police and police enter the building? Anyone seen anything about this?”

Yes. The initial 911 call came at 9:35. By 9:53, the suspect was reported dead. Eighteen minutes from initial call to dead suspect.

http://middletownpress.com/articles/2012/12/16/news/doc50ce30182ab15653131689.txt

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
11:22 am

LIBERAL GUN CONTROL HYSTERIA

better focus would be to outlaw alcohol, cars, cigarettes, and all fast food/colas

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
•Heart disease: 599,413
•Cancer: 567,628
•Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
•Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
•Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
•Alzheimer’s disease: 79,003
•Diabetes: 68,705

•Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909

Firearm homicides
•Number of deaths: 11,493

GT

December 17th, 2012
11:22 am

Name one time a victim stopped one of these things with a gun. The idea is a myth like so many things the right believes and the rest of us suffer because of. A few things all these attackers have in common, they are all young, white, males, that are suicidal, most are higher than average intelligent, so how do you profile this at your door every day? Wasn’t it easy when we just had to worry about Arabs wrapped up in sheets, now these guys look like Tea Party members, only one knob ,turned up, more crazy.

Buzz Belle

December 17th, 2012
11:23 am

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html

16 rounds fired by cops, 9 people injured – and we need more guns to stop this?

the cat

December 17th, 2012
11:23 am

td-the only jack asses here are you and keith

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
11:23 am

Nice to have you back Keith. Now, could you clarify your past statement?

Did those AR15’s go flying off the shelves when President Obama was elected because democrats were saying, “we have a democrat president now, and we are coming after your guns” or was it because the republicans were saying, “OMG we have a democrat president now, he is coming after our guns.”

Which was it? I see earlier where you blamed people like Bookman for the high sales of guns.

Could you clarify that? Which was it?

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:23 am

SFD – I never realized abortion was a source of humor. You are one sick puppy. I hope you get some help.

willie lynch

December 17th, 2012
11:24 am

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:20 am

How many people died from gun violence in the UK last year?

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:24 am

I dont want to see guns restricted but if they are the AR15s I paid 600 dollars for will be worth 3 times that. I guess everything has its plus side.

interested observer

December 17th, 2012
11:24 am

While I would support a ban on military-style assault weapons and large magazines, I can’t think of any legislation that could stop someone bent on suicide by atrocity.

This is akin to a suicide bombing — an angry and insane individual deciding to kill himself and taking others with him. The ease of acquiring firearms does make it easier for those intent on committing an atrocity, but if guns were not readily available we’d see other means. There is nothing to stop someone from pulling up alongside a school bus and detonating a car bomb. In the end, it’s a mental health issue in a society that embraces and markets violence as entertainment.

ClydeFr0g

December 17th, 2012
11:25 am

Jay, you are insistent on exploiting this tragedy to push an agenda and frankly it’s sickening.

When I’ve read through the comments on your blog the past few days I see insult after insult from the gun grabbers…calling gun owners cowards, saying they need a big gun to compensate for having a small penis, etc. Really, check over the comments and see who are the people most disrespectful of others’ opinions. And you, Jay, have done not one thing to try to maintain a civil discussion. You seem content with your followers directing their vitriol towards those of us that own guns as if we killed those children ourselves.

Shame on you Jay. Do you think there should actually be dialogue on this subject, or do you just want to try to ram an agenda down the throat of others? I’ve never been fond of the NRA for a variety of reasons but after reading your blog and the comments on your blog I’m going to be joining them and sending them money to fight for the Constitution, freedom, and my rights. And purely because I can see that there will be no civil discussion about this, no dialogue, no reason, just emotion and misdirected hate.

I’ve already posted some of my thoughts on this subject which you and the other petty insulting gun grabbers here have chosen to ignore because you cannot answer with reason, only emotion. But I will challenge you and your commenters to attempt to answer with some reason.

Guns used to be sold without restriction and without background checks AT ALL for many, MANY years. Why has this only become an issue over the past 30 years or so, and under the most restrictive gun purchasing environment this nation has ever known?

Approximately 150 people die annually in these “mass shootings”. Approximately 75,000 die annually from alcohol-related deaths (according to the CDC). Which is a bigger problem? What valid purpose does alcohol serve that it SHOULD be legal while guns (however “scary” they look) shouldn’t? Same thing for tobacco…many, MANY more deaths annually from smoking AND second-hand smoke, and yes, more children are killed by second-hand smoke than guns. Where’s the outcry over banning tobacco? Where in the Constitution does it say we have the right to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes? Bear in mind, I believe in a free country so I don’t support any of these, but it strikes me as extremely hypocritical.

Why do you think the right to bear arms even exists? Do you know the history of our nation and how our people secured their freedom from a tyrannical government with our guns once already? And is it possible that the Founders wanted to ensure our rights to do so again if necessary?

Along these lines I see comments about how “do you really think citizens with rifles are any match to a tyrannical government?” Well, I would hold up what’s happening in Syria as an example that yes, citizens armed with rifles CAN overthrow a tyrannical government.

Do you think the Jews in Europe had nothing to fear from the civilized governments there that sent 6 million of them to the gas chambers, including children?

In New Orleans after Katrina hit our civilization completely collapsed. The police became completely ineffective and were incapable of maintaining a safe, orderly environment and the military wasn’t on hand to restore order for days in which many, MANY citizens were extremely vulnerable. You think this can’t happen again, and anyplace in the country?

I see comments about how when the Second Amendment was written there were no “assault weapons” or semi-automatic handguns and that *surely* the Founding Fathers didn’t have these in mind or they wouldn’t have written the Second Amendment. Well folks, when the First Amendment was written there was no internet, television, or radio…so should free speech only be limited to spoken word? Because *surely* the Founding Fathers didn’t have these things in mind.

And those that chide the Second Amendment and say that it was intended solely for things like the National Guard (which wasn’t formed until 1917)…even if that WAS true (which I don’t believe), does it specifically say anywhere else in the Constitution that we DON’T have the right to bear arms? Forget about the fact that it was explicitly spelled out in the Second Amendment, it wasn’t explicitly or implicitly ruled OUT anyplace!

I fully expect this comment will also be ignored but at least I tried to introduce some logic and reason to the discussion, and to share the views of one Second Amendment supporter with those of you that refuse to listen to any other opinion or try to understand where millions of American gun owners like myself are coming from.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:25 am

“Magazines are incredibly complicated machines. I’m sure criminals will never be able to adapt the technology to make such an intricate device or modify an existing one to hold more ammunition…”

As a rule, criminals are neither intelligent nor diligent. They want to take the easy way out, and I see no reason the rest of us should accommodate them by making such material readily available. The legal uses of such guns and magazines are minimal, while the consequences of illegal use are … well, take a look at those 20 little coffins.

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:25 am

better focus would be to outlaw alcohol, cars, cigarettes, and all fast food/colas

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
•Heart disease: 599,413
•Cancer: 567,628
•Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353

——

So you applauded Bloomberg’s big gulp ban?

td

December 17th, 2012
11:26 am

Buzz Belle

December 17th, 2012
11:15 am

I hope they pried his beloved gun out of his cold, dead hands.

I want to see a chart on the defunding of mental health issues to the rise in massacres in this country. I want to see semi automatic weapons and the right to own multiple magazine cartridges outlawed. I want gun shows outlawed. I want the NRA be forced to cough up some of their profits to the mental health community. I want our small, innocent children saved from people like this. Because you own a gun right now and don’t use it for horrible scenes like this one, doesn’t mean in five years you will not go crazy and shoot up the world. It doesn’t mean a crazy person will not get access to those guns and shoot up the world. The ONE thing every single massacre has in common is guns.

I want 2000 children being killed everyday to stop but alas there are those pesky Constitutional rights to deal with.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
11:27 am

No, the primary infantry rifle for the armed forces in the revoluntary war was the musket. Not the long rifle.

Muskets were easier to train people with and could easily be reloaded to send large volleys of rounds downrange. Rifles were used by sharpshooters as a means of quality shooting vs quantity shooting of the musket.

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:27 am

I think that are three ways to go at this.

1. Increase security at schools

2. Increase our ability to recognize and treat mental illness and personality disorders.

3. Better control of assult weapons. Make people that own them more responsible for keeping them out of the hands of people who should not have them.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
11:28 am

” Taking guns from lawabiding citizens will do nothing to ensure your safety as has been proven in the UK.’

More murders with guns than in the US, right?

Nero

December 17th, 2012
11:28 am

Never waste a perfect moment of political opportunism huh Bookman? They’re not even in the ground yet! You make me want to puke! Save your Nancy hand wringing for a later time. Maybe when they eventually come to regulate your chosen profession under the guise of “doing enough”, you’ll be in the front cheering that on as well. After all, since the pen is mightier than the sword, it’ll just meeting your obligation for a more orderly and safer nation, right?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
11:28 am

read this GT

by Wayne Laugesen

This article was originally published in the Boulder Weekly, and is posted here by permission.

Oct. 15, 1999. More from the Independence Institute on school attacks and armed resistance.

Vice Principal Joel Myrick held his Colt .45 point blank to the high school boy’s head. Last week, he told me what it was like. “I said ‘why are you shooting my kids?’ He said it was because nobody liked him and everything seemed hopeless,” Myrick said. “Then I asked him his name. He said ‘you know me, Mr. Myrick. Remember? I gave you a discount on your pizza delivery last week.”

The shooter was Luke Woodham. On that day in 1997, Woodham slit his mother’s throat then grabbed a .30-30 lever action deer rifle. He packed the pockets of his trench coat with ammo and headed off to Pearl High School, in Pearl, Miss.

The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. “I’ve always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened,” said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car. His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. “Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again,” Myrick said.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
11:29 am

“Can any of you sobbing “we ‘bort de BAYBEEZ! wahh!” guys kindly produce any evidence that links higher murder rates to those nations that recognize a woman’s right to reproductive autonomy?”

Especially as it’s a decision a man NEVER has to make…but virtually all such mass murders are committed by MEN

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
11:29 am

Bro – I know that. But my question was what do you think they meant by the second amendment.

Keith

December 17th, 2012
11:29 am

What happens when you people start screaming about banning guns? More people buy more of them. So AR15s are flying off the shelves at gunstores thanks to people like Mr Bookman.”

Is this similar to those on the right claiming after President Obama was 1st elected that he was “coming after everyone’s guns” so those AR15’s went flying off the shelves because all of you right wingers were buying them? Or is it also similar when the same thing happened when he was reelected, because he was “coming after your guns” again? Who exactly was saying he “coming after our guns?” Those on the right or left?

Could you clarify that? I mean since you blamed those guns for flying off the shelves on Bookman and all….

Didnt you read his article? When people start talking about banning things people buy those things. Is that too hard for you to comprehend? So when people like Bookman, Obama, Scumer start that talk AR15s start flying off the shelves. Im sure if it were researched you would find the gun market picking up substantially recently.

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
11:29 am

Yeah, let’s compare someone getting and dying of cancer to someone, a child no less, dying because someone walked into his school with an AR15 and shooting him.

Hmmmmmmm……

the cat

December 17th, 2012
11:30 am

clyde-did you see the bushmaster ad? small penises are being compensated by guns.

Oops

December 17th, 2012
11:30 am

“As a rule, criminals are neither intelligent nor diligent.”

Debatable

Homocidal maniacs are definitely unhinged

But not necessarily dumb (though they may be)

This is an emotional IQ problem

Not a traditional IQ problem

hiram

December 17th, 2012
11:32 am

The solution for school security is not pistol toting teachers, but the combination of a swat team trained guard and a facial recognition surveillance system, covering the entrances. If the software doesn’t recognize the person, it locks the door, and the guard is alerted. Fence the perimeter of the school and monitor with infared, just like the common garage door. All of the technology exist now, and is affordable. End of argument.

http://www.facerec.com/

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:32 am

the cat – so the shooter’s mom was really trying to compensate for her short penis?

Jack ®

December 17th, 2012
11:33 am

It’s a blessing to have a healthy, well balanced child. And I can’t begin to imagine the pain of losing a child through sickness or someone’s madness.

Oops

December 17th, 2012
11:33 am

Will we ban war based video games?

That will help activision blizzard stock.

willie lynch

December 17th, 2012
11:33 am

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
11:22 am

Oh my God, there was a guy trying to burst into school and kill kids with his heart attack! With the exception of accidents none of these things you have listed pose a threat to anyone else. Can a person attack someone with there Diabetes? Are you serious?

The idea that 12,000 deaths due to firearms can be lumped in with chronic illness is ridiculous. And how many of the suicides chose a gun as there way out?

too little time

December 17th, 2012
11:33 am

I have an AR-15… I use it for hunting (deer, hogs). I also use a Ruger 10/22 semi auto with a 25 round magazine for hunting (small game). Functionally, they are no different. The AR-15 LOOKS meaner, but that is all! If you ever watched several of the reality based shows in Alaska, you know that the natives there use AR weapons to hunt caribou, elk, wolves.

Just about any rifle that is accurate and of sufficient caliber is suitable for hunting. For most hunters, there is no such thing as an “assault weapon” because there is no way to sufficiently distinguish them from any other semi auto rifle. Most modern military style rifles are well suited for hunting. Assault Weapons bans try to distinguish them based on pistol grips, flash hiders, etc. But the guts of the rifles are STILL THE SAME.

On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[2] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping

Just a few hours after the execution of Zheng Minsheng in neighboring Fujian Province,[5] in Leizhou,[6] Guangdong another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[7] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher.

An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[3

On 4 August 2010, 26-year-old Fang Jiantang (方建堂) slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergarten in Zibo, Shandong province.

Even in the absence of guns, children WILL die due to lunatics. To suggest that the killings would stop if we could just get these AR-15s off the street is naive stupidity.

the cat

December 17th, 2012
11:34 am

Nunna-was it the mom who did all the shooting? you are being dense on purpose or are you really this obtuse?

guy

December 17th, 2012
11:34 am

It’s almost impossible to stop terrorism.

Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)

December 17th, 2012
11:35 am

As most of you know, I normally do not agree with Pres Obama on issues. Last nite, when I heard his words of caring and comfort to the families and community, I was very touched. It did make me feel proud of him as our President. Yes, we do need to take a long look at the assault weapon issue and make it difficult for people like the gunman to obtain it. Something will have to change, it will not stop every bad guy but if it stops one, perhaps it would be worth it. As a retired military/law enforcement, new ideas need to be looked at to improve school security. One thing, that I’ve thought about was the staff at the school. All six staff members are women, who bravely attempted to save those children with their lives. Perhaps more men should be on staff at the elementary school level. Physically they would stand a better chance against a intruder. This is not meant to diminish what those heroes did trying to stop that gunman! It is just a suggestion, what do you other people think? Only reasonable people should respond?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
11:35 am

I never realized abortion was a source of humor.

Well, Nunna, I’m all about the enlightenment.

Have you heard about the Irish abortion clinic?

There’s a 12-month waiting list

What do you call an abortion in the Czech Republic?

A cancelled Czech!

Q: What do you call a cow that’s had an abortion?

A: De-calf-i-nated.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
11:35 am

The deflection with “more people die from X” is truly sad and pathetic. Yes, perhaps kids die from heart attacks, cancer, etc. People die from all sorts of things. But how many have died from gun violence. 20 heart attacks or other deaths does not = 28 dead from one killer. If 20 kids dies in one day from an illness in a single school, there would be a call shut the school and figure out a solution. The CDC would be involved. NO one would say “well more kids die from X”.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:36 am

Clyde, your attempt to portray yourself as uncommitted on this issue until you read the comments here is a dismal, dismal failure.

You also write:

“Guns used to be sold without restriction and without background checks AT ALL for many, MANY years. Why has this only become an issue over the past 30 years or so, and under the most restrictive gun purchasing environment this nation has ever known?”

Until 30 or 40 years ago, rapid-fire assault-type weapons with large magazines were not widely available commercially and had not become a popular source of manhood enhancement (and if that phrase offends you, Clyde, take it up with the Bushmaster people, see above. They know what they’re selling.) Most hunting rifles were single-shot bolt-action rifles of the type that I grew up using, and most pistols were revolvers rather than the rapid-fire large-capacity semi-automatics now on the market.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
11:36 am

30 round clip =3 10 round clips=6 5 round clips

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
11:36 am

“Didnt you read his article? When people start talking about banning things people buy those things. Is that too hard for you to comprehend? So when people like Bookman, Obama, Scumer start that talk AR15s start flying off the shelves.”

My point exactly Keith. Just when did Obama, Bookman, Scumer(??) “start that talk” after he was elected? It will be easy for you to google. Got any quotes, with dates, that they said any of that kind of talk after being elected? Did Obama actually say, or even insinuate in any way, that he was going to restrict AR15’s after he was elected? How about the 2nd time he was elected? Did he say anything about that then also?

Only those on the right (like you probably) – they “assumed” – that since Obama was elected and he was a liberal, he would go after everyone’s guns.

See if you can find any of those quotes for me…..

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:36 am

The Cat – and you’re sure that the shooter had seen the ad and asked his mom to buy it? You’re the one being obtuse, by making a meaningless inflammatory statement.

clem

December 17th, 2012
11:36 am

wonder what NY uses for compensation of his small mind?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
11:37 am

liberals think that more children dying of cancer is not a problem
doesn’t shed a tear for those children
only ones that can push an agenda
cold and heartless

as the CDC state
In the United States, cancer is the second most common cause of death among children between the ages of 1 and 14 years, surpassed only by accidents.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
11:38 am

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:38 am

the Cat – Hopefully the coroner’s report will provide the shooter’s penis size so that your point can be validated.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
11:39 am

too little time – you’re argument that, because people kill with knives, we need do nothing about assault weapons, doesn’t really make sense.

Uncle Samantha, I think we’re ALL afraid of that guy who killed 20 first graders with a heart attack. What do you propose?

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:39 am

“30 round clip =3 10 round clips=6 5 round clips”

Again, barking, if they are so easily substituted, then surely you will have no problem accepting a ban of the 30-round clip, since you will still have access to six 5-round clips that are exactly the same.

Correct?

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:39 am

Keith — “But there are guns and criminals will always be able to obtain them. Taking guns from lawabiding citizens will do nothing to ensure your safety as has been proven in the UK.”

And your counterfactual proof is Japan. Checkmate.

newkid

December 17th, 2012
11:40 am

To return to the theme (mentioned in my earlier post) of establishing a profit basis for removal of assault weapons from our culture.

Cars don’t kill people, people driving cars improperly kill people, right? Yet government requires us to purchase auto insurance before we’re allowed to drive the thing off the lot. Why not require that all weapons sales be accompanied by a requirement that the purchaser buys liability insurance for all ‘drivers’ (and potential drivers) of the weapon in the purchaser’s household (and this ought to be retroactive)? No insurance, no weapon. Why not make the insurance company libel for any illicit use of the weapon (and harm associated therewith) unless the weapon, even if the weapon has been pnroperly reported to law enforcement as having been stolen? And while no amount of money will bring back those poor kids and their teachers & administrators, the families of the victims would be able to seek financial restitution (and hopefully LOTS of it) from the insurers who would have perhaps unwittingly provided insurance to less than responsible gun purchasers.

Make sure the insurance rates reflect the potential losses these weapons AND AMMUNITION may bring to the families of victim, and the harm that is done to the larger society as a result of the weapons denying the society the lifetime benefits that would have accrued to society had these lives not been cut short. Any SINGLE assualt rifle should be required to carry at least $20 million worth of liability insurance. Eighty percent (80%) of the annual profit the insurance companies make from selling this insurance ought to go to providing protection of the society’s defenseless citizens at the places at which the gather in number (i.e., schools, shopping malls, hospitals, employment centers, etc).

If we must have insurance to protect other members of society from the abuse of our autos, then why wouldn’t we require insurance to protect society from the unspeakable horrors associated with the abuse of weapons.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
11:40 am

too little time

December 17th, 2012
11:33 am

If you really use an AR-15 for hunting, you are either a lousey shot or you don’t eat what you kill.

Jefferson

December 17th, 2012
11:41 am

Selfish people cannot solve this problem.

Ronald Reagan

December 17th, 2012
11:42 am

Reasoning with a Liberal is like talking to a billboard!

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
11:42 am

“liberals think that more children dying of cancer is not a problem”

IYHTLTMYPYHNP

If you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.

Bill Orvis White

December 17th, 2012
11:43 am

“I have already donated to Mayors against Illegal Guns and written to the White house and Congress. I’m going to do all I can to outlaw assault weapons like the one above.”
That’s like admitting to soiling yourself. You’re a fool, plain and simple. Amen, Bill

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
11:43 am

Nunna – you seem a little sensitive about this size thing… :)

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
11:44 am

And if those twenty, six and seven year old children had been the children of the gun rights advocates posting here, we can rest assured that they would all be on here telling us that it’s just the price that has to be paid in order to preserve their 2nd amendment freeeeeedoms.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:44 am

“I have an AR-15… I use it for hunting (deer, hogs). I also use a Ruger 10/22 semi auto with a 25 round magazine for hunting (small game).”

You must be quite the sharpshooter.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
11:45 am

Jay 11:39
correct. and none with banning the firearms they are used in. and banning
all other firearms, and you feel this way also…
CORRECT?

willie lynch

December 17th, 2012
11:45 am

ClydeFr0g

December 17th, 2012
11:25 am
“Do you think the Jews in Europe had nothing to fear from the civilized governments there that sent 6 million of them to the gas chambers, including children?”

Didn’t the Iraqi army have guns? Weren’t they obliterated by the U.S.? Even if the Jews had guns (and some did) they would not have had enough to prevent the Nazi war machine from achieving its end.

This idea that you can protect yourself from the government because you have a gun or guns is ridiculous, you don’t stand a chance. If the tyrannical government decided it wanted to kill you they would/could. Do you think you would be any match for a Navy Seal team? A drone strike? I think you need to think a little further. That rational has long ago lost it’s luster.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
11:45 am

Bill Orvis White

December 17th, 2012
11:43 am

Bill, coming from you, I call that high praise…thank you.

ClydeFr0g

December 17th, 2012
11:46 am

Jay – “Clyde, your attempt to portray yourself as uncommitted on this issue until you read the comments here is a dismal, dismal failure.”

I would think that someone that writes for a living would be better at reading…where did I say or imply I was uncommitted on this issue? I think it’s pretty clear that I am a gun owner and fully support our Second Amendment rights. How did you interpret anything I said otherwise?

Reading the comments here shows me that the discussion about gun control that you and your followers claim they want will never happen, and that what you and your disciples really want is to wipe your butt with the parts of the Constitution you disagree with and force the rest of us to live by your standards.

Good luck with that.

And your comments and your reply to my post show that you are petty, ignorant, and incapable of engaging in civil discourse, that you think the way to get what you want is through insults, crying, and exploiting dead children. You are despicable.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:46 am

Regnad – No, I just think it’s ridiculous to make a blanket idiotic statement like that. The shooter didn’t buy the weapon his mother did. Has there been some evidence that indicates his aggression was related to small penis size?

GT

December 17th, 2012
11:46 am

Rural against urban, as the country abandons the country to move to the city the antisocial nuts filter into the country or less populated areas. Here our political system represents the boondocks the same way they represent the bigger populations. Some genius probably Newt, a transplanted Pennsylvanian himself, has discovered this grassroots weakness in our system. It is like slave and nonslave states the moral answer is easy the political is impossible thanks to the obstructionist from the nut wing who have massed into the backwaters of this country.

the cat

December 17th, 2012
11:46 am

Regnad_I had just typed the same thing. snort

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
11:46 am

liberals fear a gun that happens once or twice a year

BUT IGNORE A TRAGEDY HAPPENING EVERYDAY IN SCHOOLS ; LUNCH

However, a recent USA Today investigation found that the meat provided by the government for the National School Lunch Program has often been turned down by fast food restaurants, such as McDonald’s and Burger King, for failing to meet their quality or safety standards.

Read more on FamilyEducation: http://life.familyeducation.com/lunch/school/64977.html#ixzz2FKQHTtqY

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:47 am

Big gun mean small pecker.

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
11:47 am

UNCLE SAMANTHA – liberals think that more children dying of cancer is not a problem
doesn’t shed a tear for those children.

Very well said. Very smart. You know me well. I’m a liberal, and I really do think cancer is not a problem. 3 of my 4 grandparents died of cancer. As did my sister in law at the age of 45. My mom and dad both had it. So far so good with them. But you are right, I don’t think it’s a problem at all.

And as far as children dying of cancer, I would NEVER shed a tear for them. You are right.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:47 am

I’m not clear about what you’re asking, Barking.

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
11:47 am

I feel pretty pessimistic about gun control… even if we put all of the appropriate measures into place, I’m still worried we will continue to have massacres like this… there will just be a slightly lower body count.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
11:47 am

Even if the Jews had guns (and some did) they would not have had enough to prevent the Nazi war machine from achieving its end.

Next time some jackass pulls the “if TEH JOOZE HAD GUNZ” card, give ‘em this.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

Kinda old but still packs a punch (and written by a decidedly non-bleeding heart/pro-gun guy, from what I can tell from his homepage.)

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
11:48 am

Nero

December 17th, 2012
11:52 am

Of course we all know Bookman is quite the sharpshooter. What with his opportunistic political sniping and all. Remember to squeeze on the exhale.

Obama Kills

December 17th, 2012
11:52 am

To bad Bookman is not as concerned with Obamas daily drone strikes that kill little children.
The progressive agenda will continue to roll on, over the dead bodies.
The progressives will always use tradgedy to further thier agenda.

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:53 am

Too many people having kids late in life with genetic and mental defects is increasing the crazy quotient.

People shouldn’t be allowed to have kids over age 35.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
11:54 am

“People shouldn’t be allowed to have kids over age 35″

That doesn’t actually say what you meant to say. It reads as if you are advocating killiing anyone over 35

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:55 am

Over 30? Yo eggs and manhood – no good!

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
11:55 am

Jay 11:39
do you support banning all guns except for police and military ?

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
11:55 am

Crazy Peeps @11:53

You don’t get to decide something like that.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
11:55 am

So the perp had 43 minutes + before police entered the building. Doesn’t sound to me like rate of fire or magazine capacity had anything to do with the amount of carnage inflicted.

So a ban on high capacity semi-auto rifles would have helped how?

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
11:55 am

Here we go again! Lets change the constitution for a SYMPATHY LAW! Yes something dreadful happens and we need to change the constitution and or change the meaning of is to is. What a bunch of liberal crap. Yes let’s listen to politicians from the area where everyone is hurting. We can get real reasonable fixes concerning the depraved people out there. We can lose more rights!!

You scolars state that different types of weapons are not mentioned in the constitution but neither is the right to privacy. So lets take away your right to privacy and we can track down all those evil people and put them in jail. No lets attack guns and magazines. You are pitiful! In your frame of mind there should be just one Swiss alive today because they are commanded to have a semi or automatic firearm in their home. Why don’t we put prayer back into the school and maybe it will deter evil events like that just happened. Why don’t we do away with the “separation of church and state”?

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
11:56 am

Jay, sorry 11:47

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
11:56 am

If citizens don’t need guns, and they are made to give them up, then why would the police need guns?

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
11:57 am

Doggone/GA @ 11:54

I was thinking the same thing! Haha!

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:58 am

williebkind — “You scolars state that different types of weapons are not mentioned in the constitution but neither is the right to privacy.”

Well, if you want to go down THAT road, the right to life’s not in there, either. So NYAAAAAAAAH :D

Just Saying..

December 17th, 2012
11:58 am

godless heathen – Law Abiding Citizen
December 17th, 2012
9:57 am
Whats your point?
Freedom.

To die, at the hands of a maniac…

too little time

December 17th, 2012
11:58 am

Jay, in his limited wisdom on the subject, says:
Again, barking, if they are so easily substituted, then surely you will have no problem accepting a ban of the 30-round clip, since you will still have access to six 5-round clips that are exactly the same.

Correct?

Been there, done that. 30 round MAGAZINES (not clips, Jay) were outlawed with the AWB for 10 full years. It had no impact, at all. Why, prey tell, do you think it would make the slightest bit of different this time?

clem

December 17th, 2012
11:59 am

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
11:59 am

Doggone

Just neuter and spade them

Reduce the crazy quotient

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:00 pm

Nunna Yobinnes 1156
If citizens don’t need guns, and they are made to give them up, then why would the police need guns?
…………………………………………………….
to shoot you if you threaten with a knife.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
12:00 pm

Whats your point?
Freedom.

To die, at the hands of a maniac…

The freedom to own a swimming pool

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
12:01 pm

I wonder if local jurisdictions might have an easier time passing laws including carry permits that are high enough to fund school security and local sales taxes to cover full body armor for the local police force, etc. I mean, after all, we do not want to impose on a person’s right to bear arms. We should just want them to bear the true cost of gun ownership on society.

Buzz Belle

December 17th, 2012
12:01 pm

newkid – that’s a very good point. Force the gunowners to buy insurance taht if their guns are used to kill people, their insurance has to pay off. Not a bad idea! With 300 million guns in this country,that’s a whole new job! The owners would have to go every five years or so for a mental health check or a responsibility check. My bet is if they had to buy insurance which would force them to take responsibility for their weapons, they might not purchase them in the first place.

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
12:01 pm

Crime is down over the last 30 years because of legalized abortion, not looser gun laws.

Limiting the output of unwanted babies who the parent(s) didn’t want, couldn’t afford, or couldn’t take responsibility for, in effect limited the number of those kind of babies growing into adults.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:02 pm

JAY

please print your outline for the CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to clarify and correct the 2nd AMENDMENT……………..

not sure what laws you are going to pass to prevent crime……. but there are laws against murder and they haven’t stopped murders

In MEXICO owning a gun is AGAINST THE LAW………. only military, police and drug gangs have weapons…………. to do that here you have to have a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
12:02 pm

Dharma Bum
December 17th, 2012
11:55 am

Crazy Peeps @11:53

You don’t get to decide something like that.

——–

Why not?

“Your” mentally deficient kid is killing mine.

Best just to stop the problem before it starts.

No children over 35.

Wytavious

December 17th, 2012
12:02 pm

Old timers around here might remember the APD’s THOR (Target Hardening, Opportunity Reduction) program of years ago. The idea was to proactively take measures to make it more difficult for felons to commit crimes. Every school in America needs a THOR program, including tight entry/egress security and an armed officer on every campus who can shoot back.

No one truly believes “gun control” prevents crime. That’s just an easy, lazy nostrum that we can mouthe after each tragedy, then forget for a while until the next tragedy.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

Last week in China, a man entered the school with a knife and cut 22 children. The reporting out of China is not so good, so there is not telling how many died or the total number hurt. This was done with a knife. You cannot stop evil from doing evil things but you can always blame inanimate objects like the gun and the cross.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

barking frog – we just need to take away knives from our citizenry too.

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

Just neuter and spade them

We DID do that — up until the late 60’s mid 70’s.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

I hadn’t actually re-read that guncite.com article linked @ 11.47 in awhile, and I wanted to quote one bit worth revisiting:

A more farfetched question is the hypothetical proposition of armed Jewish resistance. First, they were not commonly armed even prior to the 1928 Law. Second, Jews had seen pogroms before and had survived them, though not without suffering. They would expect that this one would, as had the past ones, eventually subside and permit a return to normalcy. Many considered themselves “patriotic Germans” for their service in the first World War. These simply were not people prepared to stage violent resistance. Nor were they alone in this mode of appeasement. The defiance of “never again” is not so much a warning to potential oppressors as it is a challenge to Jews to reject the passive response to pogrom. Third, it hardly seems conceivable that armed resistance by Jews (or any other target group) would have led to any weakening of Nazi rule, let alone a full scale popular rebellion; on the contrary, it seems more likely it would have strengthened the support the Nazis already had. Their foul lies about Jewish perfidy would have been given a grain of substance. To project backward and speculate thus is to fail to learn the lesson history has so painfully provided.

I’ve played devil’s advocate in the past and tried to argue against this, and found myself wanting. Anyone else wish to, have at it.

Dekalb comments

December 17th, 2012
12:03 pm

Better gun regulation including background checks for ALL transactions, very high fines, penalties and possibly incarceration for skirting the laws surrounding gun transactions would be a start. Outlawing high-capacity magazines and assault weapons would be a start.

These would have ZERO negative impact on law-abiding gun owners.

But these actions are just a drop in the bucket. We need to realize that mental health is as important as physical health and we know how people fought the idea of making sure every American has access to affordable physical health care.

We have to have a serious dialogue about the culture of guns. My mother died of emphysema after smoking all of her adult life. During WWII her doctor prescribed her to start smoking to help control her weight. It was viewed as glamorous to smoke. That culture has changed significantly. Cigarettes are not outlawed but as a culture we have changed the view.

Drinking and driving was once almost glamorized in movies. It was the “one for the road” mentality. We have turned that corner and with seatbelt laws and intolerance for drunk driving we have significantly reduced the loss of life due to drunk driving.

We glorify guns and “shoot em up” movies, video games, etc. Our culture has become totally desensitized to the fact that firearms are weapons that are designed, their sole purpose, is to kill whether that is an animal with a hunting rifle to an enemy with a military-grade weapon.

We need to work on changing that culture as we have the culture of cigarettes, drinking and driving, etc.

I have no problem with law-abiding citizens to own a firearm for hunting, sport or protection. But, as with all other Constitutional rights, the “right” to own a firearm (an individual right is not consistent with any rational reading of the 2nd Amendment but the Supreme Court has ruled) is not without limit.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

Crazy Peep – I think that technically they are no longer children at age 35.

Partisay

December 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

“Why don’t we put prayer back into the school and maybe it will deter evil events like that just happened. Why don’t we do away with the “separation of church and state”?

So Williebkind, whose “religion” should we use? Take a vote at the beginning of school and whatever religion the students represent the most, that’s the religious faith we go with?

Or just leave it up to the individual teachers? If you had a muslim teacher for math, you could get a little muslim education with it. Maybe have a catholic social studies teacher for 3rd period and then a good ole baptist to end the day in english?

I think your’re on to something there!!

Nero

December 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

clem,

I know how to double tap center mass with accuracy. Stick to your bb guns Cletus.

Escaped from Email Purgatory

December 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

I expect this is already being considered – perhaps it’s already been mentioned in the 500 + comments that precede mine.

To the extent these miscreants crave notoriety, deny them. Don’t mention their name. Don’t splash their image over every media outlet available.

For completely different reasons, we do it now with rape victims. And aren’t the names of juveniles who commit crimes withheld as well? Is this by a gentlemen’s agreement or is it statute?

I guess the experts have to figure out what motivates these creeps. But if infamy craved puts lead in their pencils, eliminate it as a component of their twisted fantasy.

It’s not the magic elixir by itself, but it might be an ingredient of one.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

in LOGANS RUN it was no children over 30
looks like we are on the path to scifi coming true

Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

Last week in China, a man entered the school with a knife…

With no deaths reported. Missing fingers and ears but no deaths. Remember, knives have multiple uses. Guns only have one purpose. You don’t use a gun to make a tent peg, prepare firewood, turn screws, etc.

Krystal'sBalls

December 17th, 2012
12:05 pm

@Oscar
December 17th, 2012
11:27 am

Agree wholeheartedly with your #1 and #2. Of course, that means the effort must be funded through HIGHER TAXES, which I am all for especially of it improves the safety of my child and yours. I also agree with your #3 but feel it should go further. Honestly, I only own one because I know other people out there own high capacity rifles and our times have brought us more home invasions with multiple people coming in and terrorizing your domain. THAT there is the primary reason I bought a .223 for the capacity. I would however be willing to have to register it or undergo whatever additional background investigation required. I would also be perfectly ok restricting sale from licensed dealers only, as well as limiting ammunition quantity purchases, getting rid of high cap (drum) magazines and all of that. Require trade in of damaged magazines in order to purchase new ones to limit people from just stocking up on them. RESTRICT THE SALE OF BODY ARMOR AND OTHER RELATED TACTICAL EQUIPMENT TO anyone BUT government law enforcement agencies or the military! NOTHING says scream potential-maniac-capable-of-a-killing-spree than some everyday civilian who feels the need to go out and purchase body armor. There are a lot of things that can be done.

zeke

December 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

And there are still about 40,000 car deaths each year! Cars are killing people! Ban all cars and trucks! This is a silly argument, but, no more so than the ban the guns argument! Guns and cars are inanimate objects, have no brain, cannot decide to kill someone! It is the people, our society as a whole that has lost it’s moral compass! Until the government and the courts take appropriate measures to correct the moral slide, no law will change anything! There is absolutely no respect for human life! The fact that we as a country murder a million or more unborn innocent children and justify it as a birth control method or women’s reproductive rights issue is absurd! That the courts protect the filth coming out of Hollywood, on the internet and in ubiquitous violent video games by claiming censorship issues is absurd! Until we as a nation change that moral compass, NO LAW OR ACTION WILL PROTECT ANYONE MUCH LESS OUR CHILDREN!

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

Nunna Yobinnes
If we take away knives, we would have to keep guns in order to
shoot salads…

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

Yep, 22 people attacked by a single person with a knife in China. ALL 22 still live. Seems that perhaps people with guns kill.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
12:06 pm

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
11:58 am
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is in the Declaration of Independence. Can you feeel it?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:07 pm

the NUT killed himself

HE AINT READING ABOUT HIMSELF IN THE PAPER

the mentally ill are not LOGICAL THINKERS

they are nuts…….. and thus do nutty things

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
12:07 pm

Crazy Peeps @12:02

You, as an individual, don’t get to make mandates for the rest of the country to follow. Aside from that, I don’t know of any reasonable data supporting your idea regarding children born to mothers over 35. Get some hard data, and then maybe you can be taken seriously… any always remember: correlation does not prove causation.

Peace

December 17th, 2012
12:08 pm

Who mourns the massacre of millions of children murdered by the abortion industry? Babies are killed every day. The President doesn’t mourn. Dianne Feinstein doesn’t condemn the butchery. And not a single bullet is fired from a Bushmaster. Liberals truly value human life?

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:08 pm

BF – no, require mandatory ownership of salad shooters.

Jefferson

December 17th, 2012
12:10 pm

You can’t change the fact that legal guns are the ones involved in these school shootings.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
12:10 pm

“The freedom to own a swimming pool”

Remind me about the swimming pool murderer who killed all those schoolchildren, please…

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
12:10 pm

UNCLE SAMANTHA: “HE AINT READING ABOUT HIMSELF IN THE PAPER”

He anticipated it all in advance.

“the mentally ill are not LOGICAL THINKERS”

Not quite true. It’s logical alright. Deeply deluded and diseased, but logical.

“they are nuts…….. and thus do nutty things”

Yeah, and the problem is that the illness is spreading, metastasizing.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
12:12 pm

godless – 11:00

I said .22 caliber SINGLE SHOT BOLT ACTION. no clips

Do you not know what that means?

clem

December 17th, 2012
12:12 pm

nero, you probably need two shots and at close range

monty

December 17th, 2012
12:12 pm

Figure out a way to keep guns out of the hands of the insane, demented,sociopath, hardened criminal and I’m all for that. If your answer is as simplistic as no one can own guns then go back to the drawing board. We can’t prevent the Ted Bundys, Cahrles Mansons, Columbine muderers and now this kid,and that’s what scares us. No amount of laws can cure evil.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:12 pm

Jay 11:47
I’m not clear about what you’re asking, Barking.
………………………
do you support a ban on all firearms except for police and military?
(just for clarity)

td

December 17th, 2012
12:14 pm

Finn de Siècle (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)

December 17th, 2012
12:01 pm

Crime is down over the last 30 years because of legalized abortion, not looser gun laws.

Limiting the output of unwanted babies who the parent(s) didn’t want, couldn’t afford, or couldn’t take responsibility for, in effect limited the number of those kind of babies growing into adults.

Or could it be that mandatory sentencing of criminals has taken effect?

getalife

December 17th, 2012
12:14 pm

Our President delivered his best speech yet.

It is on his agenda for his second term.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:15 pm

Nunna Yobinnes
salad shooters have too large magazines and should be banned also.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:16 pm

if the liberals and conservatives wouldn’t have wasted all that money on GREEN ENERGY in the stimulus…………..

it could have funded mental health for decades

but they cut it to give rich people free money to start businesses instead of helping those in need of help

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
12:16 pm

I know this a repeat for some of you, but we have new “advocates” here today and I would like for them to consider the same point.

Every legal driver can go down to the car dealership today and purchase an automobile capable of traveling in excess of 100 mph, even though, nowhere in Georgia is the legal speed limit more than 70 mph.

NTSB figures show that about 700 children per year are killed on our highways where excessive speed is a factor. This is despite speed limits and enforcement efforts. Why does anyone NEED a car that will go 100 mph when the legal limit is 70?

Would you advocate limiting the speed of automobiles sold? Why not? Is it because you own and want to continue to own a car that will go 100 mph? Do you think you should have the freedom to own such a car as long as you obey the speed limit, or don’t get caught speeding? After all, you aren’t killing anyone with your car.

Some people like to own guns that shoot rapidly, and feel that as long as they operate them in a legal manner, banning them is an encroachment on their freedom.

Krystal'sBalls

December 17th, 2012
12:16 pm

@Tom

“Perhaps more men should be on staff at the elementary school level.”

I thought about that very thing on the ride in this morning. It is true children are a bit more at a handicap from a safety perspective because the schools are dominated by women. Not said to demean the capability of women, I speak strictly from a PHYSICAL SAFETY perspective. Our wiring just allows us to respond differently.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:16 pm

BF – I think they could at best only inflict surface wounds. You’d also have to grab their hand and jam it into the salad shooter as it was turning.

Nero

December 17th, 2012
12:16 pm

clem,

Unlike you, my screaming and slap fighting technique leaves something to be desired. I’ll stick with my Kimber.

Tundra Dude

December 17th, 2012
12:18 pm

Obama Let 1 Billion Dollars in School Security Funds Lapse Before Sandy Hook Mass Shooting

http://bit.ly/UJps8A

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:19 pm

Nunna Yobinnes
o.k. status quo wins just like guns.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:19 pm

Ok. Once the guns have been taken away from those who obey the law, invest in companies that manufacture nail guns.

The Thin Guy

December 17th, 2012
12:20 pm

Am not a gun nut. Guns make loud noises and I hate loud noises. There are people I’m not fond of but have no desire to physically harm them. But we had a law making alcohol illegal. Did it work? We have laws making cocaine illegal. Is it working? I mourn the dead but have no magic wand to wave to prevent these kinds of things occurring. If you stay locked up in your house you’ll be ok until nature takes its course. But is it worth it? If you are going to change the law, repeal the 2nd Amendment; if I can’t have a gun I don’t want anyone else to. Hunters can experience the joy of hunting a grizzly bear with a spear.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:20 pm

Godless, I wouldn’t lose a minute’s sleep if the Federal government decided to limit vehicles to a 70mph max. But I guess I’m weird that way.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
12:21 pm

monty: “Figure out a way to keep guns out of the hands of the insane, demented,sociopath, hardened criminal and I’m all for that”

As I said above, that won’t work either, for the simple reason that the sociopathy in question is a metastasizing process. There will not be a way of reliably tracking people who are potential time bombs. Some will reveal their violent plans on social networks, to friends, etc., but many others will keep it pent up inside or will display more typically “sociopathic” tendencies where they play the “good neighbor” person to the outside world, hiding the monster inside (like Eric Harris at Columbine).

The larger issue is the sick society that we live in and the increasing social tensions that are begetting violence.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:22 pm

KRYSTAL’S BALLS

rear southern men STOP nut jobs

when a shooter in Pearl MS tried to go kill more children………… he STOOD UP

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/othwr/principal&gun.htm

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:22 pm

As long as they don’t limit the acceleration to 70 mph.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
12:22 pm

Once the guns have been taken away from those who obey the law, invest in companies that manufacture nail guns.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

indigo

December 17th, 2012
12:23 pm

peace – 12:08

Thousands of women all over the world have spontaneous abortions(miscarragies) every day.

Your “God of love dosen’t seem to be mourning this.

Do you?

td

December 17th, 2012
12:23 pm

2000 children will be killed today and tomorrow and every day of the year and you progressives will remain silent or worse support this senseless killing to continue. .

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
12:23 pm

“Darkness is the absence of light.
Evil is the absence of good.”

“We can minimize violence but we cannot eliminate evil.”

“Gun Free Zones” = “Helpless Victims Zones”

Finally: “Emotions are so raw right now (and understandably so) that facts must be put aside. When a little time passes then we can hopefully look at this with reason and work on minimizing future events.”

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:24 pm

Who mourns the massacre of millions of children murdered by the abortion industry? Babies are killed every day.

I know you hate when people point this out, but those terminated via legal abortion in the USA are not “children.” They are embryos (the overwhelming majority, anyway–a small minority would be considered to be in the fetal stage.)

And if you want to secure rights of citizenship to all embryonic life, you’ll need a constitutional amendment for that.

So, as I was told by others this weekend when I broached the subject of repealing the 2nd Amendment–”good luck with that.”

Until then, mystery meat, you know where you can cram your crybaby act.

(and it IS an act, and it’s not fooling anyone).

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:24 pm

Tundra Dude 12:18
Obama Let 1 Billion Dollars in School Security Funds Lapse Before Sandy Hook Mass Shooting
………………………………………
that puts the ball in his court now. probably concentrate on new laws.

RB from Gwinnett

December 17th, 2012
12:25 pm

“We should just want them to bear the true cost of gun ownership on society.”

Do you also want the high school dropouts to bear the true cost of their actions too? How about fat people? Wanna tax food by the calorie?

Simple minded solutions from simple minded people….

indigo

December 17th, 2012
12:26 pm

Bring home all of our soldiers fighting in that useless Afghanistan war.

Assign them to protect our little school children.

Or, do you think Afghan lives are worth more than American?

You can’t have it both ways in this case.

There just aren’t enough of our soldiers to go around and save the whole world.

USA Patriot

December 17th, 2012
12:27 pm

Hmmmm, seems an individual w/ a CCW permit and his pistol had an impact on the shooting in Clackamas, OR last week.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
12:27 pm

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
12:27 pm

I said .22 caliber SINGLE SHOT BOLT ACTION. no clips

Do you not know what that means?

Why .22? Why not .17?

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:28 pm

“Until then, mystery meat, you know where you can cram your crybaby act.

(and it IS an act, and it’s not fooling anyone).” Db the mind reader. Get your tickets here. He knows all, and tells all.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
12:28 pm

Bring home all of our soldiers fighting in that useless Afghanistan war.

Assign them to protect our little school children.

No.

A soldier is not the same as a policeman.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
12:28 pm

Pennsylvania ………. not Georgia.

OAKS, Pa. (CBS) — “A gun show in Montgomery County drew a huge crowd on Sunday, despite calls for stricter gun control after a shooting rampage at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut.”

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/16/connecticut-school-shooting-doesnt-deter-crowd-at-gun-show-in-montgomery-county/

luangtom

December 17th, 2012
12:29 pm

The moral backbone and values this country once had are lost. We medicate our children so they will be easier to deal with at home and in school. We rely upon the system to instill the morals and values that were once learned at home. We are a busy society with no time to parent, yet keep pumping out children for the government to educate and instill their values and standards in. Then, we all wonder aloud why incidents such as that in CT occur. Our response and that of the government is a knee-jerk one. Legislate the troubles away.

We all see how well that legislation is doing in our War on Drugs. It is a dismal failure, yet we keep pumping money into it and get a feel-good boost because another new law has been passed. The same will happen with gun-control. Advocates of such measures will use this incident to push their agendas, while they fail to see what good such legislation has done in President Obama’s adopted home-town of Chicago. The very same weekend as the CT shootings, a dozen young people were killed on the mean-streets of Chicago. Yet, we hear no media-attention, hear no national outrage. Why not? The people are just as dead as those children, the families are grieving just as hard as those in CT. Chicago has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the nation and they are not working to quell the death and mayhem. Why do people think new laws from Washington DC will do any better?

Christian Conservative

December 17th, 2012
12:30 pm

What are we to be angry at Jay? The shooter? Guns? How about society! How about how society is rotting from the inside and has been for decades thanks to the secular left. Its something you fruits simply don’t realize because that’s your worldview. Look at the filth promoted on tv and video games. Look at the filthy lifestyles promoted. Look at how we glamorize Hollywood as if these people know better. Look at how the government acts to a large portion of society. They act as there mother and father. The government thinks its GOD and prevent something like this with silly laws that will do nothing. Until this country turns back to GOD forget it. Its over!!!!

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:30 pm

Kamchak
A soldier is not the same as a policeman.
…………………………………………………
a blend seems to be the trend…

Jay

December 17th, 2012
12:30 pm

Here’s what Tundra Dude’s link actually says:

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren’t renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier….

Justice Department spokesman Corey Ray said Friday night that the SSI (School Safety Initiative) and SOS (Secure Our Schools) programs had been funded primarily by congressional earmarks for the last decade and the administration did not seek additional funding to continue the efforts after lawmakers essentially banned most earmarks in 2010.

“They were funded through congressionally designated funding (earmarks). They ended in 2010 or 2011 when that process of funding ceased,” he said.”

You mean the money disappeared in 2011 and 2012, when the Republicans in Congress were insisting that discretionary federal spending be cut, and in particular federal spending by the Department of Education? After all that talk about how the feds shouldn’t be sending money to the states for schools?

This is not a productive way of approaching this issue, Tundra. But if you want to go there…

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:31 pm

WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE GOOD OLE DAYS

WHEN WE PUT NUT JOBS IN INSTITUTIONS AND LOCKED EM AWAY FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES AND SHOT ELECTRICITY THROUGH THERE BRAINS

Jay

December 17th, 2012
12:32 pm

“do you support a ban on all firearms except for police and military?
(just for clarity)

No, not in the least.

Ivan

December 17th, 2012
12:32 pm

“Yep, 22 people attacked by a single person with a knife in China. ALL 22 still live. Seems that perhaps people with guns kill.”

So in an example of where we see a crazy person entering a school with a knife/gun, you look to the weapon of choice, not the “crazy person” as the issue.

makes perfect sense.

WHAO! whew. that was close. Just had a deputy walk passed me in the restaraunt. That gun could have went crazy.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:32 pm

Db the mind reader. Get your tickets here. He knows all, and tells all.

You buy this “wahh, TEH BAYBEEZ” bullsh-t that always appears when we start discussing our gun problems?”

reeeealy?

RB from Gwinnett

December 17th, 2012
12:32 pm

“These would have ZERO negative impact on law-abiding gun owners.”

And ZERO impact on anybody bent on destruction. You have a mental disorder if you think one more law is going to change the behavior of the person who just ignored probably some 100 laws while committing this attrocity.

You liberals just can’t seem to get your tiny little brains around the fact the 2nd amendment was also put there to protect us from our government. Just in the last 10 years, how many people have left this planet as unarmed citizens of an armed and evil government? I’m sure they all said it could never happen there too….

getalife

December 17th, 2012
12:32 pm

The Newtown massacre is the final straw for this President.

Gun law changes are coming whether you like it or not.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
12:33 pm

Christian Conservative

December 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
…………………………………………..
and speech like this from a christian conservative…

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:34 pm

the 2nd amendment was also put there to protect us from our government.

speaking of mind reading…

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
12:34 pm

Stands: Godless, I wouldn’t lose a minute’s sleep if the Federal government decided to limit vehicles to a 70mph max. But I guess I’m weird that way.

Yes, weird in the fact that you are consistent with your position and I commend that.

Dare I say not many of your fellow travelers would give up their right to own fast cars.

Nunna Yobinnes

As long as they don’t limit the acceleration to 70 mph.

mph is a unit of velocity not acceleration. mph/h would be acceleration.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:35 pm

new law

ANY CRAZY PERSON THAT KILLS CHILDREN WITH ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEN KILLS THEMSELVES SHALL BE SENTENCED TO LIFE IN AN MENTAL INSTITUTION

this will prevent these LOGICAL THINKERS from ever doing it again

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:35 pm

Db – I just don’t pretend to know the thoughts and intents of posters here. You don’t like their point and belittle them. What if that treatment makes them snap and go shoot up a school full of kids?

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:35 pm

td

You seem to have a fixation with posting the same thing over and over in regards to abortion.

Are you wanting or just doing your typical whining?

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
12:36 pm

Christian Conservative @12:30

Please go make your own psychotic political party and leave the conservatives alone. A true conservative supports gay marriage and abortion because the government doesn’t need to be involved in people’s personal affairs. Busybodies like yourself that want to force their myopic worldview on everyone else do nothing to help solve these problems…

“Turning back to God” seems somewhat contradictory considering almost 80% of the U.S. population considers themselves some kind of Christian. Are you saying that a lot of people are faux Christians?!?!?! Say it ain’t so!

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:36 pm

godless – I know what acceleration is versus mph. All I’m saying is that if I am going to be required to drive a golf cart, at least let it have good acceleration.

clem

December 17th, 2012
12:37 pm

hey RB, i thought the government was elected by the people…we, the people. i would agree since 9/11 government has been overreacting ie infringing on some civil liberties, but i don’t think arming a citizen with assault weapons is the answer.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
12:37 pm

luangtom: “The very same weekend as the CT shootings, a dozen young people were killed on the mean-streets of Chicago. Yet, we hear no media-attention, hear no national outrage. Why not? The people are just as dead as those children, the families are grieving just as hard as those in CT. Chicago has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the nation and they are not working to quell the death and mayhem. Why do people think new laws from Washington DC will do any better?”

This is one of the smarter posts I’ve read here today. I basically agree. The reason we don’t hear about the gun slaughter epidemic in Chicago, which is ongoing and unspeakable, is because of racism pure and simple. It’s in “that” part of town, so naturally it would occur. Our position, even if unspoken, is: those people are basically animals anyway, so, what do you expect? It’s pure racism.

“We rely upon the system to instill the morals and values that were once learned at home. We are a busy society with no time to parent, yet keep pumping out children for the government to educate and instill their values and standards in. ”

You’re right. Our moral backbone has been eroded. Eroded by a ruthless, vicious global capitalism that keeps us busier and busier, keeps families under greater and greater pressure,

So the massacres will continue until there is a reckoning in the society at large and in the world at large to the extent that the current hyper-capitalism is global in nature.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
12:38 pm

If you talk like a kook on the blogs, you lose your guns.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
12:38 pm

luangtom @ 12:29

THANK YOU !

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:38 pm

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:35 pm
Db – I just don’t pretend to know the thoughts and intents of posters here. You don’t like their point and belittle them. What if that treatment makes them snap and go shoot up a school full of kids?

======================================================================

how can you ASSUME that they are GUN TOTING LIBERALS ?

td

December 17th, 2012
12:38 pm

Oklahoma Girl Shoots Home Intruder: 12-Year-Old Uses Family’s Gun To Protect Self, Home

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/oklahoma-girl-shoots-home-intruder_n_1992381.html

This young lady saved herself from possibly rape or murder but she also broke established gun control laws. Should she be sent to jail?

ITA ALL BUSH'S FAULT

December 17th, 2012
12:38 pm

NRA = National Reject Association…

ITA ALL BUSH'S FAULT

December 17th, 2012
12:39 pm

GOP = Guns Over People

Ken

December 17th, 2012
12:39 pm

Haven’t we all met a person that isn’t quite all there ? I worked with a man that the company knew wasn’t quite right but they didn’t do a thing. Probably for fear of the lawyers. We watched him like a hawk. Scary !!

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
12:41 pm

ITA ALL BUSH’S FAULT @ 12:38-39

You are definitely not helping right now… this is a time to come together, not pull apart.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:41 pm

This is one of the smarter posts I’ve read here today. I basically agree. The reason we don’t hear about the gun slaughter epidemic in Chicago, which is ongoing and unspeakable, is because of racism pure and simple

==================================================================

NOT RACISM
ITS BECAUSE CHICAGO HAS THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS IN THE NATION
NOT EXACTLY A POSTER CHILD FOR LIBERAL GURGLE

gm

December 17th, 2012
12:41 pm

My heart still hurts from this, there is no excuse for having a riffle in the home period, they belong in the hands of soldiers, for the NRA or anybody saying people kill not riffles show what a bunch of sickos we have in this country.

We can hold hearing on Benghazi and discredit people but we can not hold hearing on the NRA, where is Sen McCain investigation on gun control? this is why the rest of the world look at America as a bunch of hypocrites, hey fox news idiots what you think of Bob Costa statements now?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
12:41 pm

TO MY CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS:

I heard today on the radio that the press may be supressing some information about the Portland Mall shooting last week where two people were murdered.

In brief ……….. the perpetrator was shooting at people when a 22 year old with a carry permit drew his weapon and pointed it at him whereupon the perpetrator decided to kill himself.

I do not know if this is a true account of the facts or not but I am trying to find out via research. If you have the time, please conduct some research on your own.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:42 pm

US – “how can you ASSUME that they are GUN TOTING LIBERALS ?” Huh? I haven’t assumed that anyone is a gun toting liberal. Sorry, you lost me on that one.

td

December 17th, 2012
12:42 pm

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:35 pm

td

You seem to have a fixation with posting the same thing over and over in regards to abortion.

Are you wanting or just doing your typical whining?

Nope, just pointing out the hypocrisy of the progressives on this site that have no problem with killing 2000 children everyday because it is a so called Constitutional right but want to take a legitimate Constitutional right away from law abiding citizens due to the actions of an insane individual.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
12:42 pm

ken,

Yes there are many here on this blog called the cons.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
12:43 pm

I can guarantee you one thing though. Bicker and argue though you might, what unites the conservatives here and liberals like Jay Bookman is the idea that global capitalism is just fine, it’s some minor adjustment to our society that needs to be changed, either we need to restore our lost sense of personal responsibility or we need to institute tougher gun laws, just make a few legislative adjustments in other words.

Both of these approaches are doomed before they start to the extent that they do not address the root cause: the terrifying erosion of human structures of meaning, community, and identity formation brought about by a ruthless global capitalism that has been unleashed in ever purer, more freebased form since the Reagan years.

Escaped from Email Purgatory

December 17th, 2012
12:43 pm

Gun ownership in America needs its MADD moment.

Before MADD, how seriously did we take driving under the influence? Post- MADD, DUI is treated as the serious crime it’s always been.

No attempt to draw an analogy between a terroristic act of mass murder of innocents and driving while impaired. Just that it took special people to change America’s perspective – to make us see the obvious.

Ads like the Bushmaster one posted atop this blog are obscene in light of Friday. Clearly that was the intention in placing it there in the first place.

Gun ownership should never be glamorized. Responsible gun owners know this. Now tell it to gun manufacturers.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:43 pm

td – no, she should not, but you know that criminals have more rights than victims.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
12:43 pm

“I do not know if this is a true”

Why post bs scout?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:44 pm

td

December 17th, 2012
12:38 pm
Oklahoma Girl Shoots Home Intruder: 12-Year-Old Uses Family’s Gun To Protect Self, Home

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/oklahoma-girl-shoots-home-intruder_n_1992381.html

This young lady saved herself from possibly rape or murder but she also broke established gun control laws. Should she be sent to jail?

=====================================================================

THE WONDED INTRUDER HAS NOW HIRED COUNSEL AND IS SUING THE PARENTS FOR HIS PAIN AND SUFFERING AT THE HANDS OF THEIR CHILD

THE WOUNDED INTRUDER IS NOW IN NEED OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE AND IS PETITIONING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR SSI-DISABILITY SINCE HE CAN NO LONGER ROB HOUSES

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:45 pm

Db – I just don’t pretend to know the thoughts and intents of posters here.

Since you raise the issue–I rarely do, either. In fact, I’ve doled out my share of criticism to those who blatantly assume stuff about me, or others. And yes, I do try not to assume stuff of those who take issue with my views.

I just don’t buy, for a minute, that the people who put up a smokescreen about how we all should stop and be ashamed to live in a country that, like most civilized nations, provides legal abortion to women who want it, and that this is some kind of mitigating factor in what kind of public anger/grief we display as a result of this tragedy.

And if that makes me an assumer-of-stuff, I guess that’s just a cross I’ll have to bear.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:46 pm

Why post bs scout?

beats thinkin’.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:46 pm

td

“so called”………. You are wrong……….. yet again.

It is a Constitutional Right.. Period, plan and simple, nothing about it is “so called” and you do not get to define the definition of abortion just because your opinion differs.

So again, are you wanting or whining?

I do applaud you for the adoption of kids, working with unwed mothers who are facing a tough choice with their pregnancies and all the other work you do to back up your anti abortion stance.

USA Patriot

December 17th, 2012
12:46 pm

0311 – PORTLAND — Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

“I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, ‘are you serious?,’” he said.

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

“He was working on his rifle,” said Meli. “He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side.”

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

“As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them,” he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

“I’m not beating myself up cause I didn’t shoot him,” said Meli. “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”

The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.

“I don’t ever want to see anyone that way ever,” said Meli. “It just bothers me.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
12:46 pm

Well Mom says I have to get off her computer and come upstairs for lunch.
Good day all.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
12:47 pm

“The moral backbone and values this country once had are lost”

No, they are not. One, or even a few, bad apples doesn’t mean the whole orchard is rotten

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
12:47 pm

Hopefully Oklahoma law will deny the perpetrator’s idiotic requests, however you can never tell.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:47 pm

And now it appears to be the time in the learning-disabled gun control thread for right wingers to post their favorite “lookee this guy dun shot a crimnal!” linkees.

Have fun with ‘em, rational folks.

Off to do some
more producin’.

Just Saying..

December 17th, 2012
12:48 pm

“The freedom to own a swimming pool”

You do seem a deep end thinker…

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
12:48 pm

Williebkind — “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is in the Declaration of Independence.”

While the Declaration is a beautiful and timeless document, to be sure, it does not carry the force of law in this country.

Doesn’t matter what you ‘feel.’

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:48 pm

Scout

How is every single media outlet preventing the 22 year old or any other eye witness from telling their story?

Bill Orvis White

December 17th, 2012
12:49 pm

@Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer…and Ban the Gun Thug!

…and Manchin needs to be fired, pure and simple. Why is it that secular progressive fools have to use tragedies to advance their wrong-headed agenda? Liberal zombie Michael Moore comes out of the woodwork like a cockroach when these things happen so that “he” can line his fat liberal pockets. What a hypocrite!

Now, why can’t I own a weapons cache to protect my property and family from well-armed jihadists who could storm our soil any year now. Sorry, but what’s wrong with being ready? Do any of you secular progressives on here realize that there once was a guy named Adolph who rounded up innocent peoples’ weapons caches? I’m sure you all know how that one turned out, don’t you?

GOOD NIGHT!

Amen,
Bill

Christian Conservative

December 17th, 2012
12:49 pm

barking frog:

If the truth hurts so be it… This country is rotting from the core and secular progressives are more to blame than any gun….

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:50 pm

USA

Thanks for that info. Guess we will see if it just stay “underground” or gets reported elsewhere.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:50 pm

read em and weep

25 years murder-free in ‘Gun Town USA’

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/#G4uD8V0xp1TzQzPA.99
http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
12:51 pm

one more thing:

Ads like the Bushmaster one posted atop this blog are obscene in light of Friday.

You think maybe the fact that Bushmaster still has that ad live on thier website as of this morning might not be the real obscenity?

hey, let’s check and see if their hi-larious “man card” web pages are still up…

http://bushmaster.com/mancard/

yep!

/drive-by

getalife

December 17th, 2012
12:52 pm

Some Senators are changing their position on guns but doubt the gop will.

You will need a Dem house to get gun changes so the politics for the Dems is very good.

The gop will not change so they will be the new whig party.

Put that in your gun and shoot it.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:52 pm

Scout

My apologies. That story is running on the Portland news.

Will be interesting to see what the police say about this.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

appleseed

December 17th, 2012
12:53 pm

Orifice spewing,surprised not faster than the cyclic rate of an automatic.

Peace

December 17th, 2012
12:53 pm

SFD- As a former ‘embryo’, consider yourself lucky. You and others of like mind (or lack of mind) bear a large part of responsibility in creating and sustaining a society that has such total disregard for human life, whether in the womb or in the first grade.

Darwin

December 17th, 2012
12:53 pm

There isn’t much to say. Only those directly touched by this tragedy hold the anger to change things. The rest of us only care that the government doesn’t take away our guns. Until this tragedy touches our lives. They are considered “isolated incidents by a crazed gunman.” We have been told we must accept and live with this violence. To act, means to take away our guns. It’s really insane and uniquely American.

Mike Fitzgerald

December 17th, 2012
12:54 pm

Unfortunately this isn’t the first time Kindergarteners were massacred. It happened in Scotland in 1996. The UK’s response was to completely ban handguns (assault rifles were already banned). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre#Deaths

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
12:54 pm

Christian Conservative @ 12:49

The country isn’t “rotting from the core” simply because you say it is. Human beings love to focus on the negatives while overlooking the usually more numerous positives. Things move in cycles and it is a lot like a wave… we never seem to notice we were on the crest until we are at the very bottom of the trough.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
12:54 pm

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
12:52 pm
Scout

My apologies. That story is running on the Portland news.

Will be interesting to see what the police say about this.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

====================================================================

in texas the kid might be arrested for NOT using his firearm

Christian Conservative

December 17th, 2012
12:54 pm

Dharma Bum:

Yes I am saying that most so called Christians are fake… As far as homosexual marriage the only reason gubmint is brought into the fray is because of lawsuits. Homosexual behavior is unnatural and immoral.. Plain and simple… Its yet another way to deteriorate and already fragile country teetering on collapse…

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
12:55 pm

Bill Orvis White

December 17th, 2012
12:49 pm

Now that’s the Bill I like so well! sarcasm at its finest! Good work Bill, I know I can always count on you for a laugh. Laugh and the world laughs with you, right Bill? Of course it is!

skp

December 17th, 2012
12:55 pm

I don’t care much for Michael Moore, but in the movie ‘Bowling for Columbine’, he interviewed Marilyn Manson – I don’t really know why. But one of his questions was “If you somehow could have talked to those kids before the shooting, what would you say to them?”
Manson answered “I wouldn’t have said anything at all. I would have LISTENED to them.”
I think that response is worth thinking about. The kids in Columbine were social outcasts, their parents were probably too “busy” to pay attention, etc. Lanza had mental issues, yet his mom collected guns and didn’t keep them locked away properly.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, society as a whole is to blame for events like these. From lazy parents who think it’s the schools’ job to raise their kids to right-wing conspiracy nuts who think everybody’s out to get them, to school yard bullies who make their classmates insecure and ultimately in some cases angry and looking for revenge.
People need to start taking responsibility for themselves and their kids, and stop listening to crazy people. Of all kinds.

Christian Conservative

December 17th, 2012
12:57 pm

Can any of you libs on here answer one simple question. Who is benefiting from this tragedy? Someone is I just wonder if you fruits know who….

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
12:57 pm

USA Patriot:

“I’m not beating myself up cause I didn’t shoot him,” said Meli. “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.”

Thank you.

This proves a point I have often made. The mere “presence” of a legal right to carry person can MINIMIZE a tragedy. When these cowards know that someone will resist them with equal force they will often “cower out” and shoot themselves ……………. WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT TO HAPPEN !

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
12:58 pm

“but you know that criminals have more rights than victims.”

No, they don’t. When you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
12:59 pm

“TO MY CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS:

I heard today on the radio that the press may be supressing some information about the Portland Mall shooting last week where two people were murdered.”

I heard today on the radio that I was elected emperor of China.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
1:00 pm

They BOTH suck:

Apology not accepted because you (and others) always focus on me and my viewpoints rather than facts or reasoned debate.

You showed you a** this time.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
1:00 pm

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
12:54 pm

Those of us here who call themselves Christian Conservatives only see from one eye. I their ignorance and arrogance, they think that theirs is the only way. They say you must protect the fetus, but they balk at stricter gun laws to protect our already living children.

Guns and Bibles…a truly strange combination, if you ask me. It must really make the Prince of peace proud of them…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
1:01 pm

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
1:01 pm

Congratulations Regnad. How will you deal with communist rebels?

newkid

December 17th, 2012
1:02 pm

Thanks Buzz Belle. Solutions are there if we spent more of our time thinking about reasonable and innovative approaches to real problems, and less of our time slinging mud at the so-called opposition.

In our culture we require insurance to protect society from any number of potential human and natural hazards, yet we don’t require insurance to ‘protect us’ from some of the potential consequences of abuse of guns and their owners and users. We require those who wish to locate in known flood hazard zones – where, if there is harm, it is principally to the purchaser and the lender – to purchase flood insurance before we’ll allow lenders to originate a loan. Because lenders rely upon depositors like you and me for the funds they lend to the buyer who wishes to build or buy property in a floodplain, this insurance is really a protection for you and me. Same principle applies to those who’ll purchase and use guns. Our kids and larger society deserve protection from these guns and those who would use them. It has become horrifically clear that we cannot completely rely upon moral appeals to give innocent victims in our society the protection they rightfully deserves from this menance. We’ve seen time and time again that even the most precious and innocent amoug us, our kids, are not excused from being riddled and ripped apart by these weapons and those who would use them.

Requiring insurance (steep insurance) would not deny anyone the ‘right’ to hold these weapons; it simply begins to monetize that right and responsibility. It places responsibilities on the owners (as a group) for the abuse of the guns & ammo they purchase with that right. And it uses a signficant portion of the financial proceeds that come from the insurance that those who chose to exercise that right to protect the larger society.

We’ve often used the profit motive to facilitate and expedite societal aspirations. However, if private insurers elect to stay away from this ‘opportunity’, there is every reason the government should jump right in. It’s the safety of innocents and the larger society that’s important here, not the making of an enormour profit.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
1:02 pm

Scout

If that makes you feel better and you want to pout, no problem.

You have showed your A$$ so many times on this blog that it isn’t worth counting, so cry on if that is what you need to do.

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
1:02 pm

Christian Conservative @ 12:54

Even if homosexual behavior was immoral and unnatural (which it isn’t), why is it any of your business what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes? Why do you even care if two people get married that happen to be of the same sex? The government needs to stay out of people’s business, and that includes telling people who they can/cannot marry. You don’t get to force your own personal code of morals on the other 300 million+ Americans.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:04 pm

Can any of you libs on here answer one simple question. Who is benefiting from this tragedy? Someone is I just wonder if you fruits know who…

Colt.
Smith & Wesson.
Glock.
Springfield Armory.
Tarus.
CZ.
Sig Sauer.
Winchester.
etc….

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:05 pm

“Yes I am saying that most so called Christians are fake… As far as homosexual marriage the only reason gubmint is brought into the fray is because of lawsuits”

Wrong. Marriage is a legal contract. It is the CHURCH that has muscled it’s way into a LEGAL agreement.

Jay

December 17th, 2012
1:05 pm

“The very same weekend as the CT shootings, a dozen young people were killed on the mean-streets of Chicago. Yet, we hear no media-attention, hear no national outrage. Why not? The people are just as dead as those children, the families are grieving just as hard as those in CT. “

From President Obama’s initial remarks on the Newtown shooting:

“As a country, we have been through this too many times. Whether it’s an elementary school in Newtown, or a shopping mall in Oregon, or a temple in Wisconsin, or a movie theater in Aurora, or a street corner in Chicago — these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. And we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.”

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
1:05 pm

“This country is rotting from the core and secular progressives are more to blame than any gun….”

I disagree – haters with deep-seated beliefs are dangerous – they feel justified by a higher power.

Christian Conservative

December 17th, 2012
1:05 pm

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer…and Ban the Gun Thug!:

Is a fetus not “already living”?

What an ignorant statement…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

They BOTH suck:

Not pouting ………. just not accepting your apology.

Good day !

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

C. Conservative — “I just wonder if you fruits know who….”

Why would any of us play nice with you when your schtick seems to consist of calling us names and making up bullspit about what we think and want?

Why don’t you just crawl back under your rock and think whatever the eff you like?

indigo

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

Kamchak – 12:28

Yes.

Or, do you want 20 more little children killed?

Jefferson

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

It appears handguns are for the crazy and the scared.

Dekalb comments

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

@ RB from Gwinnett

Closing loopholes for background checks, limiting the size of magazines and outlawing assault weapons are, by my very post, not everything. They will not stop the gun violence in this country but they are things rational individuals would consider no-brainers. Be sure that before someone transfers a gun to someone else the purchaser be cleared to not be a felon or meet other criteria that would deem their gun ownership imprudent. No one needs an assault weapon or these huge magazines to do what gun owners say they need them for – hunting, sport or self-defense. If there is a burglar breaking into your garage you don’t need an assault weapon with 100 rounds to defend your family and your home.

But conservative offer ZERO, I repeat ZERO suggestions except to say if we only had more guns in schools and movie theaters and at Sikh temples, etc. we would be safer. Why is there not one documented case where an armed citizen stopped what could have been a massacre then?

Conservaties on this issue are totally disconnected from reality. They love their guns almost as much as their money and their “God” who was seemingly absent last Friday. I say that as a Christian.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

**a society that has such total disregard for human life**

It has always been thus throughout history…

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

The tried to blame Manson for Columbine until they started talking to him to find out he was smarter than most of the people blaming him.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
1:07 pm

Inner city schools have magnetometers and armed security.

Time for the suburbs !!!!

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
1:08 pm

0311 — “This proves a point I have often made. The mere “presence” of a legal right to carry person can MINIMIZE a tragedy. When these cowards know that someone will resist them with equal force they will often “cower out” and shoot themselves ……………. WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT TO HAPPEN !”

How do *you* know what the shooter saw and thought?

And even if the shooter *did* see a weapon aimed at him, how’s he going to know if it’s a legal carry person drawing down on him or not?

What we WANT to happen is for these sort of things not to happen at ALL.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
1:08 pm

“Yes I am saying that most so called Christians are fake…’

Right – everybody’s wrong but you…

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
1:08 pm

Scout

No problem. I’m sure I will sleep well tonight. have a kleenex or two

:-)

Dharma Bum

December 17th, 2012
1:10 pm

Christian Conservative @ 1:05

Why do you get to tell someone else what to do with their body? If a woman has an abortion, it isn’t your problem or any of your business. I have a heart condition that will hopefully be fixed soon, but I always think of how I would feel if someone I didn’t even know was trying to tell me how I should handle my own body… empathy is a powerful tool.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
1:10 pm

godless – 12:27

That is NOT what I asked.

LUCIFER

December 17th, 2012
1:10 pm

So we’ll go through this mental exercise and we’ll soon move on to other things. Nothing will change. Never does. NRA has its own effective brainwashing that the government is out to take your guns away. They have power and money. Nothing will change. Never does. Doesn’t matter if an assault weapon or a handgun with a 30-round clip that shoots hollow points isn’t used in hunting, but only to kill and injure innocent people. You watch, after the dust settles and the tears are dry, nothing will change. Never does. And, not to make a fine point about it, U.S. flags in time of disaster fly at half mast on ocean faring vessels, and at half staff on land.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
1:11 pm

“Congratulations Regnad. How will you deal with communist rebels?”

Thank you.

We are considering…that’s the Imperial “we”.

:D

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:13 pm

Kamchak – 12:28

Yes.

Or, do you want 20 more little children killed?

No, most emphatically no.

First, a soldier’s training is different than a policeman’s training.

Second, I suggest you research the rise in mental illness of returning troops associated with our current “War On Terror”.

While I applaud their service to this country, I believe we would be remiss in arming them around our children.

Union

December 17th, 2012
1:13 pm

the real evil is guns.. yeah.. meanwhile in china people just go into schools and stab children to death instead..

bottom line.. the person was nuts.. failed govt school system.. failed healthcare system.. failures on so many levels.. to let people like this slip through the cracks.. its always seems that when something like this happens, people are quick to point out they were odd, strange, etc.. but no one does anything about it..

maybe we should focus on mental health a little more?

Jay

December 17th, 2012
1:13 pm

““Congratulations Regnad. How will you deal with communist rebels?”

If you listen to many conservatives, we just re-elect them as president. :>)

td

December 17th, 2012
1:14 pm

Dekalb comments

December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm

How many gun laws are already on the books? How many of these laws have actually stopped criminals or the insane from getting their hands on and using guns?

I guarantee you that there are more gun control laws on the books then laws to protect the unborn that are slaughtered at a rate of 2000 per day.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
1:14 pm

Chr5istian Conservative,

Wow what a display of “Christian love” you show. And no, a fetus is NOT a living thing. it is an appendage in the woman’s body until it draws its first unassisted breath outside her body.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
1:15 pm

Can someone please explain why all gun owners MUST be NRA members? I’m certainly not. I couldn’t care less what the NRA thinks. There is no legitimate excuse for private citizens owning assault weapons. However, don’t punish the rest of us who are only trying to protect our families, by taking away our firearms.

No Artificial Flavors

December 17th, 2012
1:16 pm

As a hunter, I am not allowed to have more than 3-5 rounds loaded at a time depending on the game and the state therein. If you need more than 5 round then you probably shouldn’t hunt. Kind of ironic that we can have 30 rounds to hunt humans. That goes for the police too. (Military is different)

indigo

December 17th, 2012
1:18 pm

Peace – 12:53

Will you answer my 12:23?

Or, just ignore it and hope this goes away?

It won’t.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
1:19 pm

Christian Conservative -

“Conservative” – I don’t think that word means what you think it means…

Why do all your posts suggest society should be more rigidly controlled?

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
1:19 pm

Jay

December 17th, 2012
11:22 am

“43 minutes between the time the first calls placed to the police and police enter the building? Anyone seen anything about this?”

Yes. The initial 911 call came at 9:35. By 9:53, the suspect was reported dead. Eighteen minutes from initial call to dead suspect.

Jay, Let me put it into simple words that, even you, can understand.
Nobody and I mean nobody new if the shooter(s) were dead. The time it took for the police to get there is absurd.

If the nut killed 20 in 18 minutes, just imagine how many he would have killed in 43 minutes. Hot Damn, even your liberal brain should be able to figure that one out.

td

December 17th, 2012
1:19 pm

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer…and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
1:14 pm

Chr5istian Conservative,

“Wow what a display of “Christian love” you show. And no, a fetus is NOT a living thing.”

Only by legal definition.

“it is an appendage in the woman’s body until it draws its first unassisted breath outside her body.”

Not a true statement. Even the SCOTUS talks about the rights of the unborn when they are considered to be able to live outside the womb. This is the reason a person that kills a pregnant woman can be charged with a double homicide. Remember you can not kill a fetus by your definition.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:20 pm

I see two issues going forward.

Mental health and assault rifles and clips.

Let the debates begin.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:21 pm

Abortion is not the debate td.

RB from Gwinnett

December 17th, 2012
1:21 pm

“but i don’t think arming a citizen with assault weapons is the answer.”

Yea, we could just throw rocks at the troops like they were doing in Libya and Egypt earlier this year.

Does anybody know why the people in Cuba don’t just leave? Think about it…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
1:21 pm

td @ 1:14

THANK YOU !

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
1:22 pm

No Artificial Flavors

December 17th, 2012
1:16 pm

As a hunter, I am not allowed to have more than 3-5 rounds loaded at a time depending on the game and the state therein. If you need more than 5 round then you probably shouldn’t hunt. Kind of ironic that we can have 30 rounds to hunt humans. That goes for the police too. (Military is different)

Flavors, What is the difference if he had 10 magazines with 5 rounds each? Would that make anyone feel better?

td

December 17th, 2012
1:22 pm

No Artificial Flavors

December 17th, 2012
1:16 pm

As a hunter, I am not allowed to have more than 3-5 rounds loaded at a time depending on the game and the state therein. If you need more than 5 round then you probably shouldn’t hunt. Kind of ironic that we can have 30 rounds to hunt humans. That goes for the police too. (Military is different)

There is nowhere in the 2nd amendment that addressing owning guns for hunting reasons. You are giving a false argument.

Jefferson

December 17th, 2012
1:22 pm

They are scared when they buy a handgun and are scared if it is taken from them.

Pump shotguns offer the best home protection one would ever need.

mbtc

December 17th, 2012
1:23 pm

kayaker71:”If the anti gun lobby would take away semi-automatic assault weapons and leave it at that, lots of people would be willing to talk. However, they are intent in making the armed criminal the only one with a weapon.”

I call BS on this NRA created cliché. No one, democrat, progressive, whatever has ever called for the removal of all weapons. What Jay and others are saying is that we have limits on the type of guns people own and who is qualified to own them. Just as we have limits on how fast cars are allwed to go and the competancy of the driver. The NRA has always been a master, take-no- prisoners, propagandist organization who’s over-the-top rhetoric has become the model for all types of conservative causes. This argument of “they’re coming to take all your guns” has always been a pack of lies.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
1:23 pm

Kamchak – 1:13

If it’s a choice between putting some soldiers that may have stress anxiety on guard duty around our schools or letting more shooters get at our children, I suggest we vote for the soldiers.

As for training, it’s pretty simple.

The soldiers stand guard over the schools. They are already trained to stand guard.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:24 pm

Abortion, Libya, Cuba, Egypt is not part of this debate cons.

Focus, you are all over the place as usual.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
1:24 pm

getalife – just curious, do you think a person who experiences occasional depression, and is on depression medication should be banned from owning a firearm? Should they be automatically be institutionalized?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 17th, 2012
1:24 pm

RB from Gwinnett @ 1:21

“Think about it…”

The libs. can’t because they don’t understand (inspite of the recent Supreme Court ruling) why the 2nd Amendment is there.

“Heller v. D.C.”

Page 24

b. SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

“The phrase “security of a free state” meant “security of a free polity” not security of each of the several states.”

“There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary for the security of a free state” ……….. Third, when the
able bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.”

Page 25

3. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PREFATORY CLAUSE AND OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the able bodied men was not by
banning the militia but simply taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress
political opponents.”

Page 26

“It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might
be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down.”

The other half of your brain.

December 17th, 2012
1:24 pm

RB from Gwinnett

December 17th, 2012
1:21 pm

“but i don’t think arming a citizen with assault weapons is the answer.”

Yea, we could just throw rocks at the troops like they were doing in Libya and Egypt earlier this year.

Does anybody know why the people in Cuba don’t just leave? Think about it…

That’s an easy one, half of them are in Miami, and the other half don’t have boats to get here plus the Coast Guard will not let them touch our shores, when caught.

Was that enough thought?

indigo

December 17th, 2012
1:25 pm

getalife

Did Jay appoint you to tells us what we can and can’t say here?

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:26 pm

“Did Jay appoint you to tells us what we can and can’t say here?”

Scroll wheel still broken I see. You know, a new mouse is really cheap to buy these days.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
1:27 pm

will our anger be buried alongside Newtown’s dead ?
yes.

No Artificial Flavors

December 17th, 2012
1:27 pm

No I’m not setting up false argument just stating an ironic conflict ion of laws. What are you talking about. I didn’t say I was for banning large clips. Just pointing out that hunting with large clips is illegal. But a mental reject can buy large clips for non hunting purposes no problem. Btw, carrying ten or twenty clips is a pain in the ass.

Matti

December 17th, 2012
1:28 pm

“Will our anger be buried alongside Newtown’s dead?”

Anger? No. I’m still stuck in shock and grief — for these children, and all of them. Look around. Look in the mirror. What have we become? Even the self-proclaimed “Christians” I see around here are running low on apparent redeeming qualities. Anger? Lord help us when that day comes! Still cannot see past the grief.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:28 pm

” just curious, do you think a person who experiences occasional depression, and is on depression medication should be banned from owning a firearm? Should they be automatically be institutionalized?”

I have argued that half our country of cons are mentally ill inflicted with the genetic defect of conservatism. I have argued that their brains need to be studied like concussions. I stand by these positions.

What to do about it is best left to professionals with greater minds than mine. I think our President agrees and will listen to all proposals and ideas.

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
1:30 pm

The shooter was diagnosed with a personality disorder while he was still in grade school. The mother had disagreements with the school over how they were dealing with him and removed him from school.
We need to address how these disorders can be treated. With proper treatment, the chances are good that this shooting could have been avoided.
The answer, as much as there is one, depends on how we raise our young people, and how we diagnose and treat those that are seen to have personality disorders at an early age.
Those behaviors can be corrected with proper treatment.

middle of the road

December 17th, 2012
1:31 pm

“So, give me an example of an unfunded entitlement? Looking at my pay stub I see they take out money for fica and medicare, wouldn’t that be funded???”

Fica (social security) is mostly funded. Medicare is partly funded. Medicaid, welfare (SNAP, WIC, EITC) do not have a dedicated revenue stream.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:33 pm

“Those behaviors can be corrected with proper treatment”

And the money to pay for it

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:33 pm

“Did Jay appoint you to tells us what we can and can’t say here?”

Deflecterbation should not be done in public.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
1:33 pm

indigo — “The soldiers stand guard over the schools. They are already trained to stand guard.”

And unless they’re also trained MPs, chances are very poor that they’re trained in how to disarm or neutralize an armed intruder without injuring or killing nearby unarmed bystanders.

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
1:35 pm

do you think a person who experiences occasional depression, and is on depression medication should be banned from owning a firearm

___________

Weapons should not be kept in the same house with young men who have known personabliy disorders or mental illness.
The mother made a tragic mistake by keeping the weapons in the house knowing her son was disturbed.

td

December 17th, 2012
1:35 pm

mbtc

December 17th, 2012
1:23 pm

I am calling BS on your statement. We already have extreme limits on guns in the books in every state and at a national level. What you want is just another step towards taking all guns away.

Oscar

December 17th, 2012
1:36 pm

And the money to pay for it

_____

Which means people should pay taxes.

Madmax

December 17th, 2012
1:36 pm

Dharma Bum

So you object someone telling you what to do with your body. Now you give the mother life or death rights over the fetus. News alert – It’s the fetus’ body that is being butchered, not the mothers.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
1:37 pm

Scout: “The libs. can’t because they don’t understand (inspite of the recent Supreme Court ruling) why the 2nd Amendment is there”

Oh I understand perfectly, and that’s why I want to see that crushed.

Confiscation. Confiscation. That’s what’s going to be necessary. And that’s just for starters.

You afraid yet, Scout? (You said yesterday you thought the constitution was there to ‘protect’ you from people like me)

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:38 pm

Weapons should not be kept in the same house with young men who have known personabliy disorders or mental illness.

At the very least they should be locked in a gun safe and these individuals should not have the combination or keys.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:38 pm

“Now you give the mother life or death rights over the fetus”

Hate to break it to you, but it was GOD who gave womne that right.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:40 pm

I think we should wait for all the facts to come in before we even begin this debate. The full medical history of this kid is not known. His Mother and Father’s help for this kid is not known. His computer was smashed so his computer records are not known. Medications are not known. The motive is not known.

Like with Libya, how in the world can you start a debate without all the facts? You can’t, you are just speculating again just like Libya.

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
1:41 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:42 pm

SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS!, Jay.

17 pages over the weekend and now another 8+.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:43 pm

The libs…such weak minds that have to stereotype every damn issue and break it down to that, pathetic…

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
1:43 pm

ban shoot’em up video games

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
1:44 pm

and ban shoot’em up movies

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:44 pm

“The libs…such weak minds that have to stereotype every damn issue and break it down to that, pathetic”

but of course you would NEVER stereotype “the libs”, would you? Heaven forbid!

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:45 pm

“and ban shoot’em up movies”

What are parents for?

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
1:45 pm

Mick — “The libs…such weak minds”

Irony meter PEGGED :roll:

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:46 pm

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
1:46 pm

“What are parents for?”

Driving kids to movies.

Other than that, parents have abdicated responsibility.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:47 pm

The knee jerk reaction from both sides is a sight to behold.

I think our President nailed it. Let all the facts be known, listen to the professionals and then act.

The speculation is usually dead wrong.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
1:47 pm

Crazy Peeps – I would not necessarily have a problem with banning those video games, but for the life of me, I don’t understand why parents would allow their children to own or play such games.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
1:47 pm

how did Newt Gingrich get a yankee town named after him?
NEWTown

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
1:47 pm

Kam

Jay is probably easing into the holiday………

:-)

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:47 pm

“No”

Liar

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:49 pm

“Other than that, parents have abdicated responsibility”

Wrong. There are millions of people in this country who DID NOT go out and shoot up an elementary school. Their parent have done a good job.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:49 pm

Thank God the adults are in charge.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
1:49 pm

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
The knee jerk reaction from both sides is a sight to behold.

I think our President nailed it. Let all the facts be known, listen to the professionals and then act.

The speculation is usually dead wrong.

==================================================================

it was a spontaneous protest from a horrible video that lead to the Benghazi incident!

wait what? armed thugs dont spontaneously protest?

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
1:49 pm

Dr. Phil could have prevented this tragedy. A law requiring all 15-25
year old males to watch Dr. Phil daily will prevent future massacres.

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
1:49 pm

What you want is just another step towards taking all guns away.

Fainting couches aside, considering that you want to execute women for having abortions, in your case, I almost agree…

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
1:50 pm

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:43 pm
The libs…such weak minds that have to stereotype every damn issue and break it down to that, pathetic…
.
.
.
monkey poop.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:51 pm

Crazy uncle,

Than you for proving my point.

The reports are not in yet, but you chose top speculate.

Dead wrong.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
1:51 pm

“A law requiring all 15-25year old males to watch Dr. Phil daily will prevent future massacres”

Yeah, by driving them all to suicide

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:51 pm

What I was saying and not very clearly, was all the people on here stereotyping “the libs” they are the weak minded! I refuse to be categorized but then, con is such an apt descrition…

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:51 pm

BOTH

“easing into the holiday”

I’m sure there’s a risqué comment to be made somewhere.

Don’t wanna get red-carded this close to Xmas, you know — Santa’s naughty/nice list….

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
1:52 pm

Ah yes, the constitutional Dr. Phil amendment.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:53 pm

doggone, granny, jhm

Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year!!

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:55 pm

What I was saying and not very clearly, was all the people on here stereotyping “the libs” they are the weak minded!

Yeah, I got that.

But I had to assume you were our regular Mick and not some drive by.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
1:56 pm

Nunna Yobinnes
Ah yes, the constitutional Dr. Phil amendment.
…………………………….
only for 21-25 ages, the minors can be deprived..

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
1:56 pm

“Wrong. There are millions of people in this country who DID NOT go out and shoot up an elementary school. Their parent have done a good job.”

There’s always a party pooper.

We don’t need the games and movies. Time to end them. Junk food rotting the brain.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
1:57 pm

“A law requiring all 15-25year old males to watch Dr. Phil daily will prevent future massacres”

Yeah, by driving them all to suicide”

I would add to that list “The People’s Court”, “Judge Judy” and other such television programs. Mass suicides would be imminent.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
1:57 pm

Some days, you just can’t catch a break, monday, monday…

getalife

December 17th, 2012
1:59 pm

The new word for today is speculatebates.

Debates based on speculation.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
1:59 pm

We don’t need the games and movies. Time to end them. Junk food rotting the brain.

Same thing can be said about talk-radio, but there’s that whole 1st amendment thingie. It will have to be done through willful consumer action.

Just stop buying it.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
2:00 pm

getalife — “The new word for today is speculatebates.”

Specubation?

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
2:01 pm

Doggone/GA
Yeah, by driving them all to suicide
………………………………………………
suicide, for mass murderers, seems to be a solution. earlier would help.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
2:01 pm

Joe,

Works for me but wanted debates in the word too.

Peace

December 17th, 2012
2:02 pm

Indigo@1:18: My wife miscarried our first child, a boy. We have three beautiful daughters. I love them dearly, and I still grieve for the loss of our son. Hope this answers your question.

too little time

December 17th, 2012
2:02 pm

The reason we don’t hear about the gun slaughter epidemic in Chicago, which is ongoing and unspeakable, is because of racism pure and simple. It’s in “that” part of town, so naturally it would occur. Our position, even if unspoken, is: those people are basically animals anyway, so, what do you expect?

No. The reason we don’t hear is because it is Chicago, ILL, home of some of the strictest gun ownership laws in the country. If gun restriction could work, it would work in Chicago. The media doesn’t want you to hear about Chicago’s gun problem. If the left were correct, Chicago’s gun laws should be the gun nirvana that America is looking for. They banned carrying, they banned assault weapons, large magazines, etc, etc. Now, only the criminals and the police have guns. They are the perfect model of gun ownership that left envies, and the left’s vision of our future

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
2:02 pm

I can see it now. The court programs could be made to resemble games shows like “Family Feud”.

“Judge Brown says….”

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:02 pm

Mick

Don’t know what it’s like in sunny south FLA, but up here in the Mtns….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm0ZWbMhWrE

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
2:04 pm

and ban shoot’em up movies, video games, etc…

Yes, by all means! Because Prohibition always fixes the problem! I mean the symptom, not the cause.

Senseless, depraved violence is a huge money maker in this country (and nowhere else, really) because so many people here want it. They have been conditioned to like it and now they will pay BIG money for it.

Vicarious bloodlust and wanton violence – all in the name of “entertainment” – is cool, huh? Can you show me the dozens of headless bodies again, please, Mr. Stallone?

Witness the political success of that fantastically wealthy, albeit swinish Schwarzenegger. Did anyone even take a righteous stand against this star and all of the countless others associated with his filth?

No. I think not. But in my estimation the man was not fit to lead the people of California. Certainly from a moral standpoint. And it looks like I was correct.

I’ve done my part, and have for thirty years. I go to ZERO of these movies. I watch ZERO of those TV programs and games. And I have and will continue to denounce by name those who glamorize murder and mayhem for millions of dollars.

Your children will get the idea.

John Wayne is dead and he was fraud anyway…

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:04 pm

… and the left’s vision of our future

Not intended to be a factual statement.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
2:04 pm

too little time

also too little homework, the chicago ban was overturned.

keep the hell up.

Mick

December 17th, 2012
2:05 pm

kamchak

Just got to make it through the week, will be out in tahoe next week…

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
2:08 pm

Crush the second amendment. That’s for starters.

But of course, that would launch the second civil war.

But of course, that might happen anyway.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
2:08 pm

“John Wayne is dead and he was fraud anyway”

Uh oh you’ve done it now. John Wayne was an ‘merican hero.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
2:09 pm

Life is a hell of a thing to happen to us.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
2:09 pm

So Kyle just started a thread on the shootings about an hour and a half ago; he states in his post that he wanted to wait for some ‘facts’ to come out before he commented.

So then he starts his post with a bunch of NRA-friendly ‘facts,’ none of which appear to have jack spit to do with the Newtown incident at all. Instead, the ‘facts’ cited seem to support the NO TOUCH ER GUNZ position more than anything else.

Then again, what else would one expect?

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
2:12 pm

end the brain junk food

DwayneL

December 17th, 2012
2:12 pm

That’s the exact rifle I’m going get before the commies make them illegal! Come and try to take it too and see what that gets you!

Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!

December 17th, 2012
2:13 pm

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
2:13 pm

Compromise.

Screw the NRA and Hollywood.

Ban automatic weapons. Ban movies and video games with guns and violence.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
2:14 pm

indigo
Life is a hell of a thing to happen to us
……………………………………
God bless us one and all. -tiny tim

AmericaShrugged

December 17th, 2012
2:14 pm

Not enough info on this incident yet, but Columbine and VTech showed enough evidence of planning that they might have found a way to get weapons anyway. Dylan and Eric weren’t old enough to purchase guns legally. Cho bought a Walther and a Glock, not exactly assault weapons. We need teachers ande parents trined to identify nutjobs and steer them to treatment.
If you read any of getalife’s posts you know that individual is a wacko waiting to blow. Geta – Please seek treatment before you hurt yourself or someone else.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
2:17 pm

too little time

all you will hear is crickets

the liberals and jay will be too cowardly to DEBATE on that subject

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
2:18 pm

DwayneL

December 17th, 2012
2:12 pm
That’s the exact rifle I’m going get before the commies make them illegal! Come and try to take it too and see what that gets you!
.
.
.
.
One of multiple posters here who appear to be ripe for
a mental health screen.

FBI

December 17th, 2012
2:19 pm

We have had the right to own guns in this country since it’s founding. This kind of horrible violence has come about in the last decade or so. Twenty five years or so ago the most popular video games were Mario Bros or Pacman. Today all the most popular games are “Assasin’s Creed, Mortal Combat etc. about criminal activity and mass murder. Even movies are increasingly violent. Compare “The Longest Day” with “Saving Private Ryan”. Both cover the same event,D-Day, but the difference in the on screen violence is striking. We need to stop feeding this kind of violence to our youngsters as if were normal. If any industry needs to be regulated it is the movie and video game industry.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
2:20 pm

oooops i was wrong
granny came in with an ignorant post
but once again proving logic and liberalism are like venus and mars

one is a runaway greenhouse effect …….. i.e. full of hot air

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
2:20 pm

uncle sammie…

are you referring to

too little times post that contains the glaring error?

you should keep up too…

DownInAlbany

December 17th, 2012
2:22 pm

Crazy Peeps

December 17th, 2012
2:13 pm

Compromise.

Screw the NRA and Hollywood.

Ban automatic weapons. Ban movies and video games with guns and violence.

Automatic weapons are already banned. Banning alcohol really worked during the days of prohibition. The war on drugs has been an overwhelming success. Banning video movies and video games should solve all of our problems.

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
2:22 pm

uncle sammie

ignorant? have you looked into a mirror?

it’s a shiny thing that reflects your own image.

course, some blood suckers cannot use a mirror.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:23 pm

too little time

all you will hear is crickets

the liberals and jay will be too cowardly to DEBATE on that subject

16= pages downstairs suggests otherwise, sport.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:24 pm

Automatic weapons are already banned.

Not intended to be a factual statement.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
2:26 pm

Peace – 2:02

No,it doesn’t.

Do you blame God for your tragic loss?

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
2:26 pm

Republican anger will not be buried alongside those 20 little children. They’re mad as hell that anyone would dare to even suggest that they should give up any ground when it comes to their gun rights. And don’t even try to hold them accountable or responsible for anything that happens with a gun.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
2:28 pm

I’m sure this has probably been said too many times on the blogs here the last couple of days, but
hopefully this event will make more people aware and responsible for how they raise their children.

Outlawing guns isn’t going to save lives overall in society.

It’s primarily a societal issue, not a gun issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH2efAcmBQM

Blaming dems or cons isn’t going to solve anything. This is an issue that must be addressed by each and everyone of us.

Take responsibility!

indigo

December 17th, 2012
2:28 pm

Doggone/GA – 1:26

I was waiting for the peanut gallery to show up.

I must have missed where Jay appointed you to instruct us as how to act here.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
2:29 pm

The inter-republican culture wars are on! Representatives are talking compromise on taxes and gun control. Will the republicans create a “sane” wing? Grab some popcorn and watch the carnage.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
2:30 pm

I’m sure this has probably been said too many times on the blogs here the last couple of days, but hopefully this event will make more people aware and responsible for how they raise their children.

Outlawing guns isn’t going to save lives overall in society.

It’s primarily a societal issue, not a gun issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH2efAcmBQM

Blaming dems or cons isn’t going to solve anything. This is an issue that must be addressed by each and everyone of us.

Take responsibility!

JC

December 17th, 2012
2:30 pm

“Whatever, there is no constitutional right to possess a Bushmaster.”

Maybe I’m missing something, but where in the second amendment does it govern the type of arms that you have the right to bear? Why stop at a Bushmaster? Just because it looks meaner and has a high capacity clip? Weak argument.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
2:30 pm

I heard Liberman come out against gun control and we can use the funds used for the cowardly cons scared to death of aq to protecting our children at school.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
2:30 pm

moonbat betty 2:28
did you miss the Dr. Phil solution ?

Randy

December 17th, 2012
2:32 pm

First let me say that I am not a gun owner, but I have been considering changing that now for some time. Let me also say that I have no fear of weapons, I grew up in the country and they were always around…but of the hunting variety. Ft. Bragg taught me the use of every weapon from a knife to a tank, so I have no fear of guns or actually any weapons. However, I chose not to be an owner for many years because I have personally believed that most people are frankly too damn (sorry) dumb to have a gun and I did not see that much violence around me and my family.
However the nightly news has changed that for me. Every video clip of another convenience store robbery, every article about an innocent lady or child being abducted, robbed, raped, and killed, the constant horrors of gang violence and drive by shootings has moved me toward owning defensive weapons. I’m sick of seeing atrocities carried out by people every weekend, if not every night, that lack the fundamental element that makes someone a human being…namely a soul, a conscience, a heart. It is too much and the police are outgunned. They can’t protect the people. They can’t protect my children.
So before I join in wanting gun control or even bans (and I could still be swayed), my questions for everyone are these:
…who is going to remove the guns from the Bloods, the Crips, 30 Deep, the Hispanic gangs and all of those people who go shopping with a gun every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday in metro Atlanta, Chicago, DC (where they have strong gun control laws), etc.? How are you going to take their guns?
…who is going to finally convince those naive, well-meaning people who lobby to get monsters released on to the streets, just to rob and kill again because they were “victims too”. Who is going to finally convince them that for the good of all a lot of the prison bars need to be welded shut. How do you convince them?
…who is going to show me that my children are safe and not going to be victims of rape, murder, and other unspeakable atrocities, just because they were in the wrong parking lot, at the wrong time, driving a vehicle that some thug saw and liked and pulled out his illegally purchased gun to take from them…and maybe have a little “fun” too? Show me?
It is a reality that what happened in Newtown, Columbine, the movie theater in Colorado, and so many others were so senseless, so horrible, tragic, and brought tears from my eyes too…but what about the video clips every night on the news where thugs are robbing a convenience store, threatening, pistol whipping, and sometimes murdering some poor store clerk just trying to earn a living? How are you going to stop the common criminal who preys on society and always will?
Before you think about disarming the rest of us, explain how you are going to disarm those monsters…and I will be delighted to help you as you go around letting them so willingly drop their Glocks in your collection bins.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
2:32 pm

Joe – 1:33

That comment shows you know absolutely nothing about how our soldiers and Marines are trained.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
2:32 pm

” where in the second amendment does it govern the type of arms that you have the right to bear?”

JC – Am I guaranteed the right to anthrax? Are you saying there are NO limits to the arms I have a right to bear?

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
2:33 pm

“I must have missed where Jay appointed you to instruct us as how to act here”

Another poster with a broken scroll wheel

getalife

December 17th, 2012
2:33 pm

Lieberman for gun control. My bad.

He chairs the Homeland security so he can allow funds to be allocated to protect the children at school instead of the con cowards and aq.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:34 pm

That comment shows you know absolutely nothing about how our soldiers and Marines are trained.

Ruh, roh.

indigo

December 17th, 2012
2:34 pm

barking frog – 2:30

Would the Dr. Phil solution make those inmates at Guantanamo talk?

It would me.

I’d rather be water-boarded than listen day after day to him.

td

December 17th, 2012
2:35 pm

Can you progressives tell us which “NRA” leader made the following statement:

”Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”

Welcome to the Occupation

December 17th, 2012
2:35 pm

too little time: “No. The reason we don’t hear is because it is Chicago, ILL, home of some of the strictest gun ownership laws in the country. If gun restriction could work, it would work in Chicago. The media doesn’t want you to hear about Chicago’s gun problem. If the left were correct, Chicago’s gun laws should be the gun nirvana that America is looking

This is the typical right wing consolation. Crisis? What crisis? All we have to do is listen for what the “left” says we ought to do, then ignore that, and then we’ll be fine. Whatever appeared to be a crisis can then be safety ignored. Can’t be too big a deal since the people making a stink can just be dismissed as a bunch of hysterical “leftists”.

Meanwhile, all we ever hear from you in the way of a proposal is: sorry, $$it happens. What do you expect? It’s a fallen world. Take it up with god.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
2:36 pm

Would conservatives in a less violent society be so obsessed with the size and speed of their guns or would there simply be fewer conservatives.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
2:36 pm

gm:
Thats your opinion and my opinion is that your opinion is stupid.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
2:37 pm

The gop solution is more guns at elementary schools.

I repeat, elementary schools.

That is their knee jerk reaction.

Michael

December 17th, 2012
2:37 pm

A couple posts touched on some steps toward a solution. I agree completely with Newkid that some insurance for guns should be required. If the shooter had driven a car into the school and killed some children, each family would have received compensation and would not have had any expenses in connection with medical or funeral costs. The same should apply to the victim of a shooting.
Another poster indicated that the NRA compensates the families of police officers killed by gunmen. The NRA should offer the same compensation to any unarmed victim of a shooter. If they don’t have the money available, then they and the gun manufacturers, gun dealers, and gun users will have to start paying something annually for the privilege to have some fun with a gun.
I say the NRA should start this, as they are the primary advocate for the unrestrained use of assault weapons. If they contribute to this risk, they should bear the cost of this risk.
This seems like a MADD moment to me. If the campaign to limit drunk drivers could reduce fatalities caused by drunk drivers by 50%, then a campaign to reduce fatalities caused by firearms could also achieve significant results.

JC

December 17th, 2012
2:38 pm

“JC – Am I guaranteed the right to anthrax? Are you saying there are NO limits to the arms I have a right to bear?”

No. Way to sensationalize my point. I’m saying that the idea of banning one gun or one type of gun isn’t going to solve anything. Any consideration to do so is naive and a waste of time and money.

too little time

December 17th, 2012
2:39 pm

too little time

also too little homework, the chicago ban was overturned.

keep the hell up.

Sorry , Granny, but your addled brain has got the best of you. Removing the IL ban doesn’t go into affect for another 160 odd-days.

deegee

December 17th, 2012
2:40 pm

I think that sociopaths like the recent ones who have slaughtered innocents have a parent, a sibling, or an acquaintance who would not want to be alone with that person knowing that they were armed with a gun.

DownInAlbany

December 17th, 2012
2:40 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:24 pm

Automatic weapons are already banned.

Not intended to be a factual statement

What is not factual regarding this statement?

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
2:40 pm

“Would liberals in a less secular society be so obsessed with the gender of man, woman or beast or would there simply be fewer liberals.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
2:41 pm

indigo
I’d rather be water-boarded than listen day after day to him.
…………
I’d rather pierce my eye with a sharp stick than listen daily to him.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
2:41 pm

The National Rifle Association has scaled down its social media presence in the wake of the tragic school shooting in Newton, Conn.

Now there’s cowardly for you. The NRA cannot even stand up and defend their principles when the going gets tough.

DownInAlbany

December 17th, 2012
2:42 pm

Never mind, thug. I guess I understand your logic. Autos are not banned, but, let’s agree that they are highly regulated to say the least.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:43 pm

What is not factual regarding this statement?

Fully automatic weapons are available to those with the proper license, they are not as you stated, “banned.”

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
2:43 pm

So Kyle just started a thread on the shootings about an hour and a half ago

JHM, I saw it. Sad, really–I guess I expected a bit better of him.

I thought about replying but I couldn’t think of anything positive to say, after reading a ridiculous pull-quote he’d added from some turd at National Review.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
2:44 pm

Frog 2:30

Sounds like one of the better solutions put out there.

Too bad people who commit these atrocities would not just go ahead and kill themselves first, but they would rather have a “rep” or solidify their “street cred” before they check out.

Sad and unfortunately, the only way I can see to curb this kind of attitude has to begin at a early age and continue through the teenage years.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
2:44 pm

Now the president said he was going to do everything in his power to stop events like in CT from happening. What can he do without making law abiding citizens criminals? Is that what you liberals want sympathy laws to incriminated those who believe in tradition and family values? I think so!

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:45 pm

Never mind, thug. I guess I understand your logic.

Facts are logical.

You are now just trying to walk back your erroneous comment.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
2:45 pm

The new way the Marines are trained is they have to be tested for alcohol before the training.

Now, I know you cons want them to pee in a cup but lets not get carried away.

Stoners rule Call of Duty.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
2:46 pm

Indigo — “Joe – 1:33 That comment shows you know absolutely nothing about how our soldiers and Marines are trained.”

As a disabled Army veteran myself, I’d like to say that you’re talking out your hind end here.

I completed two MOS training tracks during my time in the Army and not once in either of them — or in boot camp — did we deal with the question of how to manage a situation such as was faced in Newtown.

td

December 17th, 2012
2:46 pm

This is from the great gun control advocate: Kind of sounds like some of the same points I have read the last two days by the progressives on this blog:

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”
Adolph Hitler

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
2:47 pm

“Fully automatic weapons are available to those with the proper license, they are not as you stated, “banned.””

Just about anything is available with the proper “license” Heck, you can even get anthrax if you have a properly accredited lab, with the neccessary safeguards, and a valid research reason.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
2:49 pm

“Would liberals in a less secular society be so obsessed with the gender of man, woman or beast or would there simply be fewer liberals.

Does that “less secular society” involve more Catholic priests and choir boys and more cons running for office in Georgia that have an affection for four-legged beasts, etc. You can have it, willie.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
2:49 pm

“Now there’s cowardly for you. The NRA cannot even stand up and defend their principles when the going gets tough.”

Unlike liberals maybe the NRA is giving the families time. Then my donations to the NRA will go to work.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
2:49 pm

Confiscation. Confiscation. That’s what’s going to be necessary. And that’s just for starters.

And who said noone is calling for unreasonable gun laws?

Granny Godzilla

December 17th, 2012
2:49 pm

too little time

are you prattling on about the hand gun ban or the concealed carry ban?

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
2:50 pm

It is amazing a liberal calling someone coward. I cannot remember that many liberals in the military. Now that is cowardice.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
2:50 pm

What’s sad is that Rude Pundit, like Kyle, decided to take some time before reacting directly to this tragedy. What Rude Pundit has posted is far more thoughtful and filled with life’s lessons.

and I hasten to add, he isn’t paid a dime for his scrawlings (other than what readers happen to put in his tip jar, and what miniscule dough he gets from google ads.)

I’ll just quote the last graf which, like the rest of it, is surprisingly profanity-free.

When I had that gun pointed in my face all those years ago, I didn’t think, “Damn, I wish I had a gun, too.” I didn’t think, “Damn, I wish someone else with a gun would come along and save me.” I thought, “Damn, I wish he didn’t have a gun.”

As have many children and adults alike.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
2:51 pm

as they [NRA]are the primary advocate for the unrestrained use of assault weapons.

Not intended to be a factual statement.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
2:52 pm

godless @ 2:49

That post you replied to was surely way out there, however that hasn’t been the overall sentiment in the last few days. Over reactions are nothing new from a percentage on all sides…….

newkid

December 17th, 2012
2:52 pm

FBI said: “We have had the right to own guns in this country since it’s founding. This kind of horrible violence has come about in the last decade or so.”

Sorry, but not quite true FBI. Go back and read the unedited and sordid history of the settler’s displacement of the native people from ‘desirable’ land here in north America in the 19th century. Reading about some of the things that were done (often in the actual words of those who conducted the acts) to women and children in some of those villages will turn your stomach inside out. More often than not these weren’t acts committed by folks with questionable mental capacities.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
2:52 pm

“I’m saying that the idea of banning one gun or one type of gun isn’t going to solve anything. Any consideration to do so is naive and a waste of time and money”

How about an anthrax gun? Can I bear that?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
2:53 pm

And, I gotta say, Rude makes a whole lotta sense with this:

“I would argue with the violence in Hollywood and in video games part since whenever we start to walk down this road, we turn those into easy scapegoats rather than blame a broken mental health system and a paucity of limitations on gun ownership.

“And as far as cultural influences, I would say that a nation that sanctions capital punishment, use of extreme force by the police in many situations that don’t call for it, and the murder of people overseas by drones is a nation that has stated, in a quite official way, that violence is the answer to one’s problems. I would say that as far as unintended effects go, those things have done more damage to the American psyche than all the versions of Grand Theft Auto we could play.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
2:53 pm

godless heathen
And who said noone is calling for unreasonable gun laws?
………………………………………………..
I will say that if you don’t get them all you should leave them alone.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 17th, 2012
2:54 pm

Does anybody know why the people in Cuba don’t just leave? Think about it…

Because they’re too poor to afford the airfare? :roll:

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
2:54 pm

“indigo
I’d rather be water-boarded than listen day after day to him.
…………
I’d rather pierce my eye with a sharp stick than listen daily to him.”
…………….
I’D rather lick the road clean with my tongue… :)

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
2:54 pm

This is from the great gun control advocate

TD, really? I didn’t think you were that much of a patsy that you would fall for that ancient fake Hitler quote.

I’m not even gonna snopes it. you ought to be ashamed.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
2:55 pm

One other thing –

The picture at the top of the BushMaster pic with “Consider your Man Card Reiussed” has nothing to do with this shooting.

The shooter wasn’t trying to be a “Big Man”, he was a selfish mentally deranged a-hole who used a gun purchased by his Mother.

Obviously, Jay is pushing his political agenda.

td

December 17th, 2012
2:56 pm

Another great NRA founding member’s quote:

“We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;”
—Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
2:57 pm

Today’s Majority Report ought to be good.

http://majority.fm/2012/12/17/1217-cliff-schecter-gun-control-finally-on-the-table/

I hope Cliff is correct about the vulnerability of the NRA.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
2:57 pm

“s they [NRA]are the primary advocate for the unrestrained use of assault weapons.

Not intended to be a factual statement.”

Whats your point I am not a liberal I cannot read your mind.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
2:57 pm

barking frog @ 2:53

I’m with you there. And since we are not going to get them all, there will be no total ban.

I do own several fire arms, but wouldn’t say that I would be against any additional restrictions. However, I would have to know that those restrictions were and do my own homework before saying “we need more restrictions now”.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
2:57 pm

The shooter wasn’t trying to be a “Big Man”

His mom probably was.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
2:58 pm

Does anybody know why the people in Cuba don’t just leave? Think about it…

Because they’re too poor to afford the airfare?
……………………………………..
Not enough yachts ?

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
2:59 pm

“have to know what” ………. not “that………….”

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
2:59 pm

barking frog

The weather is nice?

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
2:59 pm

The picture at the top of the BushMaster pic with “Consider your Man Card Reiussed” has nothing to do with this shooting.

MB: The wailing and gnashing of teeth about things that had nothing do with Friday’s shooting has been par for the course today.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
3:00 pm

“The shooter wasn’t trying to be a “Big Man”, he was a selfish mentally deranged a-hole who used a gun purchased by his Mother.

Obviously, Jay is pushing his political agenda.”

Now that is concludes this story. Jay and Obama will politicize the he&& out of it to pass SYMPATHY LAWS taking away law abiding citizens rights.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:02 pm

““The shooter wasn’t trying to be a “Big Man”, he was a selfish mentally deranged a-hole who used a gun purchased by his Mother.”

Since you obvious know the shooter’s reason for this massacre, why don’t you share it with the rest of the class?

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
3:02 pm

stands,

From the info. given so far, this incident is as much the Mom’s fault as the shooter. She enabled him to get the weapons.

However, I don’t think she was trying to be a big man, just paranoid.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
3:02 pm

willibkind

Well if Obama politicizes it in the same manner that the NRA and gun manufactures used their deceptive campaign about Obama coming to take aways guns after he won in 08 and last month then yes he will be politicizing it……….

Randy

December 17th, 2012
3:03 pm

Bottom line is that no matter what comes out of this, it will still be suicidal to be in SE Atlanta after dark…and not armed to the teeth.

skipper

December 17th, 2012
3:03 pm

As time goes on (and lets hurt some feelings here, pc police) it will ABSOLUTELY come out that this kid was a total lunatic. Not “mentally-challenged” of “slightly-autistic” or “cerebrally-challenged”. Watch the facts. Just like the Colorodo shooter, who is a total idiot nut-case. This weirdo will be the same. And, his mom took him to the shooting range????? If she (rest her soul, and I am certain it was not intentional on her part) couldn’t see what was up with this wack-job after some of the comments folks made (including her family) then she is quite possibly (even posthumously) to have to share tons of blame. If guns were not around, what would she have taught him: how to make Molotov-cocktails??? I’m just sayin’…………….

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
3:04 pm

They Both Suck
I would not oppose partial restrictions. I have a .22 pistol revolver, 22 rifle
9 shot semiautomatic and single shot 410 shotgun. However i do think
it is an exercise in futility that is unenforceable and creates a blackmarket.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
3:04 pm

Tell us the motive cons.

You don’t know do you.

How about this kids medical records and meds.

You don’t know do you?

There are many unknown facts so how can you start a debate?

You can’t.

Just knee jerk reactions just like Libya.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:05 pm

Yes, weird in the fact that you are consistent with your position and I commend that.

Dare I say not many of your fellow travelers would give up their right to own fast cars.

You’re probably right about that, Godless.

mind you, I didn’t say I’d be especially HAPPY about being speed limited to 70mph. But it wouldn’t especially freak me out.

Now, if you were to asked me 20 years ago, I suspect I would’ve flown my Glibertarian freak flag at the prospect.

I don’t really care about driving fast, any more. I care about the ice shelves a lot more, frankly. I figure nowadays that our unfettered access to personal vehicles that can go/do anything we want them to won’t go on forever.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:05 pm

However, I don’t think she was trying to be a big man, just paranoid.

Might be a distinction without a diff, but point taken.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
3:06 pm

Whats your point I am not a liberal I cannot read your mind.

Point is that the NRA does not advocate the unrestrained use of assault weapons.

BTW, anyone come up with that NRA article, ad, statement about survivorists, yet?

Anyone?

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:06 pm

TD, really? I didn’t think you were that much of a patsy that you would fall for that ancient fake Hitler quote.

Isn’t that the hallmark of an attention whore?

:roll:

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
3:06 pm

barking frog

For the most part I agree. That is why I have not called for any additional restrictions and wont say I back any until I actually knew what they would be………….

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
3:07 pm

They Both Suck
77 degrees-slight wind-overcast, nice.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
3:07 pm

getalife,

The motive is he was a deranged, selfish, a-hole who had no value for human life.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:07 pm

The NRA and its supporters are definitely the cowards. They cannot even imagine a world without their guns.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:08 pm

“Just knee jerk reactions just like Libya.”

Facts are for stupid libruls, doncha know…

tm

December 17th, 2012
3:09 pm

The problem is not the gun, the problem is we allow these nuts to be on the street. Look at the background of the VA Tech shooter, the Colorado shooter or the AZ shooter. Don’t we pay for counselors at schools to look out for these problem kids or do they judt pass them through the system and hope nothing bad happens. Columbine happened in 1999 you would think somone would have figured this out.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm

Don’t we pay for counselors at schools to look out for these problem kids

Nope. Counselors are usually some of the first ones laid off due to budget cuts.

St Simons - aboriginal BOOTAKOOK 2014

December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm

It’s mental health, people. That and the will to identify and remove those
identified as high risk from the general population.
I can’t bear to read some of these posts.
I’m going to leave for a while.
See you in the new age

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm

Interesting that td quotes Hitler.

Because good old Adolph believed that abortion was a crime punishable by hard labor and a possible death penalty.

Is this where td got that idea of his from?

Speaking of American fascists, has Ann Coulter blamed the children yet?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:11 pm

BTW, anyone come up with that NRA article, ad, statement about survivorists, yet?

Well, they did refer to the ATF people who were gunned down by David Koresh as “jack booted thugs.” Sounds pretty survivalist-friendly to me. I realize it was a while ago, and they officially apologized, but it was notorious enough that George H.W. Bush publicly renounced the organization in disgust.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:11 pm

tm – are you advocating involuntary commiments? In what circumstances?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
3:11 pm

granny squabbles over dittle dattle and MISSES the point that CHICAGO with the MOST RESTRICTIVE gun laws in the nation has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE DUE TO GUNS in the nation

since it doesnt fit into a liberal narrative………attack on baseless grounds and NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE THE OTHER SIDE IS FACTUALLY CORRECT………….. always attack and IGNORE any LOGIC that refutes your stance

saul and the blue book at work
http://www.thelittleblueblog.org/the-little-blue-book-3/

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:12 pm

Interesting that td quotes Hitler.

well no, he doesn’t. That’s my point.

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
3:12 pm

barking frog

Forgot you live in Florida. Sounds like great weather.

However I was responding to your reply at 2:58 about Cuba.

tm

December 17th, 2012
3:14 pm

“tm – are you advocating involuntary commiments?”
As opposed to haveing these nuts on the street where they are going to kill someone–Yes

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
3:15 pm

The Venn diagram of what many liberals believe about the NRA and the truth would look like this:

O O

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:16 pm

UNCLE SAMANTHA

Pardon my frankness, because I’m just not in the mood to be all cutesy and politically correct, but what in the hell does Left/Right have to do with any of this sh*t? Are you conservative muthaf**kers patroling Chicago trying to save lives with your personal weapons, or are you sitting back on your lilly white asses passing judgment on “those people” who are killing themselves?

It’s time for this bullsh*t to stop. You sound ignorant as hell trying to debate liberal vs conservative sh*t when people are mourning the loss of their children. Geez… How hard do you have to train to become such an insensitive jackass??

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:17 pm

After a gunman’s rampage in Aurora, Colo., in July, the NRA was strongly criticized for a tweet it sent out. The morning after that shooting, the tweet said “Good morning shooters. Happy Friday! Weekend Plans?”

The NRA said the person who sent out that tweet was unaware of the movie theater shooting, and it removed the tweet.

The last thing the NRA needs is another target painted on them so they best lay low and just make sure they quietly keep the votes they need in Congress under control.

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:17 pm

Hey, did anyone come up with a correlation between legal abortion and higher murder rates?

Or is it as I suspected–a lot of countries that severely restrict abortion also have pretty nasty violent crime rates?

Here’s a color coded map. Looks like my suspicions are correct, but I don’t really have time to go a good apples:apples comparison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abortion_Laws.svg

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:18 pm

The Venn diagram of what many liberals believe about the NRA and the truth would look like this:

O O

The last thing the NRA has is a pair that big.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:18 pm

““tm – are you advocating involuntary commiments?”
As opposed to haveing these nuts on the street where they are going to kill someone–Yes”

So, who gets to decide? How would that have worked in this case? Sounds a little “1984″ to me.

getalife

December 17th, 2012
3:19 pm

moonbat,

They don’t know the motive yet.

Speculabation.

barking frog

December 17th, 2012
3:20 pm

they Both suck
availability of yachts was pure speculation but i would speculate
nice weather also…

getalife

December 17th, 2012
3:21 pm

The NRA shut down their facebook and twitter pages because they are cowards.

ObamasNoLeader

December 17th, 2012
3:22 pm

Pist, Jay, check your facts. That gun WAS NOT used.

GT

December 17th, 2012
3:25 pm

You know moonbat betty if Jay’s “agenda” saves one life and destroys some gun fetish you have, to me, that is far less a selfish agenda than the one we’re having now feeding your insecurity at the expense of children dying. The way you dressed up that comment you think Jay was the one out there killing kids and your thing for guns was healthy. I think what is getting your goat is deep inside you feel defensive because you think people are blaming you and your type for this tragedy and you may have a point.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
3:25 pm

Only a liberal would react like the liberals infer the NRA should act. The NRA’s silence makes the liberals think they have gained the high ground. What a bunch of losers.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
3:25 pm

Pist, Jay, check your facts. That gun WAS NOT used.

The coroner said that it was.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 17th, 2012
3:26 pm

That one person had mental problems and took them out on the innocent is no reflection on the millions and millions of us that DID NOT.

Well, I’m sick of people calling the shooter “mentally disabled” or saying he had “mental problems.” That’s a load of hooey.

He knew that shooting all those kids was wrong. When the police showed up, he knew what was going to happen to him after a trial. He had enough mind to shoot himself to keep that from happening. If he was really crazy, he would of shot it out with the cops.

Some people just have a hard time accepting there’s people meaner than a snake. Even his mom knew he was. That’s why she warned a babysitter for him never to turn his back on the kid, not even to go to the bathroom. You can read about it here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559502/ex-babysitter-says-newtown-conn-school-shooter-adam-lanzas-mother-warned-dont-turn-your-back/

He was this way all his life. You can call it “mentally disabled” if you want, but he was plenty calculating. There ain’t a court in this country that would say he’s insane.

Have a good night everybody.

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
3:26 pm

The NRA that police chiefs around this county despise for making their jobs even more perilous?

OK, where do I sign up?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
3:26 pm

i hate it when bros are letting bros die in chicago
and are standing around NOT MOURNING their deaths
but instead mourning white kids
and the media IGNORES the horror in CHICAGO
its a messed up world we live in

For some perspective, the host Marc Lamont Hill threw out some statistics that put a sobering spin on the conversation: Since 2001, about 2,000 American service men and women have died in Afghanistan; in that same time period, 5,000 people have died in Chicago.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/08/17/why-are-so-many-young-black-males-killing-each-other-in-chicago/

They BOTH suck

December 17th, 2012
3:27 pm

barking frog

I’m sure yacht availability could certainly play a part

:-)

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
3:28 pm

…about 2,000 American service men and women have died in Afghanistan; in that same time period, 5,000 people have died in Chicago.

So which one are you happiest about?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:28 pm

I don’t care much for Michael Moore, but in the movie ‘Bowling for Columbine’, he interviewed Marilyn Manson – I don’t really know why. But one of his questions was “If you somehow could have talked to those kids before the shooting, what would you say to them?”

Manson answered “I wouldn’t have said anything at all. I would have LISTENED to them.”

I think that response is worth thinking about.

Agreed.

But the real reason I’m replying is to answer the “why” you implicitly raise, about MM interviewing MM.

He interviewed Marilyn Manson because that band was targeted as some kind of dark influence over Dylan Klebold. The point Moore was making in the title of his movie, was that the Columbine shooters also took a bowling elective in high school, but nobody seemed to want to blame bowling for their mental instability–so why blame Marilyn Manson?

A crude point, but not an unjustified one.

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
3:28 pm

The police originally said that the Bushmaster was found in the car, but later changed the statement to reflect that it was used. No explanation was given.

Also didn’t hear any more about the 2nd gunman captured in the woods. Probably some poor deer hunter in the wrong place at the wrong time.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
3:29 pm

A reason the NRA would shut down its facebook and webpage is to avoid the abusive behavior of liberals. That was too easy!

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
3:29 pm

williebkind — “Only a liberal would react like the liberals infer the NRA should act. The NRA’s silence makes the liberals think they have gained the high ground. What a bunch of losers.”

I pretty clearly said over two hours ago that the NRA’s going to keep its collective head down on this, just like it does every other time there’s a public shooting incident in the country. But hey, don’t let reality and facts screw up that rant of yours, okay?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
3:29 pm

So which one are you happiest about?

Isn’t it good, Norwegian wood?

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:30 pm

“I’m sure yacht availability could certainly play a part”

No gun violence?

YouLibs

December 17th, 2012
3:30 pm

They put up a flashing yellow light around the corner from my house, in front of the elementary school. Every morning for one hour, and every afternoon for one hour, they reduce the speed limit from 40mph to 25mph. They frequently place jack-booted motorcycle cops with radar guns in hard-to-see places along that thoroughfare.

WAKE UP PEOPLE! This can only mean that Obama is trying to take away our cars.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:31 pm

godless

I remember the police interviewed that person, and I think it was stated that they fled when they heard the shots start. I’ll have to see if I can find that information.

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
3:31 pm

A reason the NRA would shut down its facebook and webpage is to avoid the abusive behavior of liberals.

No, I think getalife is right. The people who made that decision are unprincipled, politically correct cowards. Otherwise, it would still be up…

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
3:31 pm

K. Chak — I had no idea you were Norwegian. :D

Erwin's cat

December 17th, 2012
3:33 pm

Has anyone considered these shoot’em up video games that are desensitizing these youngsters to this kind of violence?…I have been concerned about this for years….gaming is training

GT

December 17th, 2012
3:33 pm

Kid is killed and the right defends the situation, a policeman who signs on knowing this risk, is killed and the right is posting his picture on every telephone pole for miles around. One thing about gun totters you increase your odds of dying by a gun. English police don’t even carry them on routine jobs, and less of them get killed than our John Wynns over here, wonder why.

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
3:34 pm

“just like it does every other time there’s a public shooting incident in the country”

Now, I am sure you have a source for that remark or are you just blowing sparks out your tail pipe?

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
3:34 pm

“I remember the police interviewed that person, and I think it was stated that they fled when they heard the shots start. I’ll have to see if I can find that information”

Well, if it was a hunter that close to a school…they were probably closer than the law allows

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
3:34 pm

The police originally said that the Bushmaster was found in the car, but later changed the statement to reflect that it was used. No explanation was given.

Also didn’t hear any more about the 2nd gunman captured in the woods. Probably some poor deer hunter in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I also read an early report about a fourth gun found at the scene that belonged to his father, that vanished when I went to look for it again. Now it seems there was a shotgun found there.

skipper

December 17th, 2012
3:34 pm

You cannot institutionalize everyone, for sure. However, at some point if a Psychiatrist or someone knows somebody may go off, then AT LEAST have a group meeting, warn law enforcement (see Colorodo shooter) or something. We have become so aware of mental health now, that the politically correct thing to do is to turn the loons loose on the street along with the truly mentally challenged folks that have made progress. There ARE warning signs…….like when one of them says “I’m gonna kill a bunch of folks!!!” C’mon, man! In 2010 there was a settlement between the State of Georgia and the U.S. Department of Justice to address the “perceived” failures of state hospitals to adequately serve individuals with mental illness. this basically ended up taking people from institutions (and later keeping many from ever getting sent there) to more community-based or home-based care. Admitedly, there was a need for reform….even Downs syndrome kids back in the day were automatically institutionilized. However, you reckon’ they overdid things?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
3:37 pm

K. Chak — I had no idea you were Norwegian.

Ja ja.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
3:38 pm

“You cannot institutionalize everyone, for sure. However, at some point if a Psychiatrist or someone knows somebody may go off, then AT LEAST have a group meeting”

According to a psychiatrist I heard interviewed yesterday..MILLIONS of people have the same personality traits as a mass killer…but never kill anyone. Are you prepared to have a “group meeting” millions of times?

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:38 pm

California Governor Ronald Reagan felt the best place for the menatlly disabled was on the street – it’s cheaper.

Skipper – are you really okay with the tax increase you appear to be advocating?

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
3:39 pm

The Norwegian Steppes? Hmmm.

Buzz Belle

December 17th, 2012
3:40 pm

Brosephus™ @ 3:16 pm – Thank you!
GT @ 3:25 – Thank you!

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:40 pm

“gaming is training”

Isn’t it possible that gaming allows over-stressed people to “blow off steam” in a non-destuctive manner, thus preventing murerous rampages?

stands for decibels

December 17th, 2012
3:40 pm

Has anyone considered these shoot’em up video games that are desensitizing these youngsters to this kind of violence?

Countless people have.

And I will second what Rude Pundit said and add to it.

I think our nation’s acceptance of the death penalty, ridiculously overlong prison sentences for routine crimes, assassination-by-Presidential-decree, willingness to use torture because we think it works, and oh yeah, pre-emptive invasions and occupations that have resulted in countless thousands of civilian deaths, might just have desensitized us a bit more than shooter video games.

(and I mostly can’t stand such things, won’t let me kid play ‘em, and have almost no stomach whatsoever for violent movies, so if anything I should be ready, willing and able to blame them. But I don’t–tend to I see them as merely symptomatic of far nastier institutionalized evils at work.)

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:41 pm

skipper

I understand your point on mental health notification, but HIPPA rules would likely make that impossible to do. Some medical information can not be shared, by law, unless the person gives consent for that information to be shared. I don’t think mental health issues is something that can be shared without consent.

DownInAlbany

December 17th, 2012
3:43 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
2:45 pm

Never mind, thug. I guess I understand your logic.

Facts are logical.

You are now just trying to walk back your erroneous comment

I don’t have to walk back anything for you, thug

williebkind

December 17th, 2012
3:43 pm

To show you the character of liberals, they would exploit this horrible event to promote their agenda. Whether you believe in that agenda or not what kind of mindset would use such a terrible case to impose different beliefs. Liberals are lower than a snake’s belly in a wagon rut! Have respect for the grieving family and community!

godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen

December 17th, 2012
3:43 pm

I remember the police interviewed that person, and I think it was stated that they fled when they heard the shots start. I’ll have to see if I can find that information.

There were reports of a handcuffed man in camo being led away by police.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
3:43 pm

Lobotomies for all, and to all a good night.

Randy

December 17th, 2012
3:45 pm

No one on the right is defending killing a kid GT, you are hallucinating. Reegarding England, I’ve spent a lot of time in England and you are right at what you are implying, murder there is a fraction of hat it is here…but the difference is that they got rid of guns before every street punk had a collection. The problem here is the “Genie is already out of the bottle”. With 300 million guns already out there, how are you going to take them away from the criminals instead of just the rest of the people? And it is John WAYNE, not Wynn.
@ Erwin’s cat…personally I think you are closer to most of these mass shootings than other’s realize. Those games, TV, movies, and a general movement of progressives to tell everyone it is not their fault and they are not responsible, have desensitized a couple of generations now. Life imitates art…happens all the time. If media says an action or an irresponsibility is correct, it must be, right?

S&W, HK, Sig and the others may have created the weapons, but the progrssive attack on values for the last 40 years has created the shooters.

Peace

December 17th, 2012
3:45 pm

Indigo@2:36 – Do you blame your mother for your pathetic life? Your father? The mailman? Your uncle? Perhaps a brother? You owe me answers to these questions as much as I am obliged to answer yours. Good day.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:45 pm

Buzz Belle

No need to thank me. I have no problem with people engaging in the usual Left/Right pissing contest when it’s called for. I simply don’t think this is one of those situations when the rhetorical BS not relating to the incident in CT or other mass shootings need to be injected into the conversation. Some people are attention whores and seek whatever attention they can get. I wish they would become solution whores instead and put the rhetorical bullsh*t aside for at least one day to actually carry a dialogue like a grown assed person instead of a childish nitwit.

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

The NRA shut down its web site because it is run by a eunuch. Or eunuchs. They cannot take the heat so they cower.

JamVet

December 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

Have respect for the grieving family and community!

Yes, because yours is so very admirable.

Heal yourself.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 17th, 2012
3:48 pm

Sure do seem to be alot of efforts to blame “video games” while avoiding blaming “guns” for the outcomes of violence. And yet the “science/logic” behind the “blame” is never really explained nor is any studies or evidence.

Doggone/GA

December 17th, 2012
3:49 pm

“actually carry a dialogue like a grown assed person instead of a childish nitwit”

but aren’t you assuming an childish nitwit knows HOW to carry on a dialogue like a grown person?

YouLibs

December 17th, 2012
3:49 pm

willie @ 3:43

“To show you the character of liberals, they would exploit this horrible event to promote their agenda. Whether you believe in that agenda or not what kind of mindset would use such a terrible case to impose different beliefs. Liberals are lower than a snake’s belly in a wagon rut! Have respect for the grieving family and community!”

Just like they did with Benghazi, right?

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Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:51 pm

“Sure do seem to be alot of efforts to blame “video games” while avoiding blaming “guns” for the outcomes of violence”

It’s not guns, it’s those durn Z-rays. That’s wyt a tin-foil hat is mighty important. That new-fangled aluminum foil just don’t do the job.

Hey, theres just as much evidence for ^^^ that theory as there is for the “gaming” theory…

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
3:52 pm

Doggone

You got me there…. I’ll go back to silent mode now. :)

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:53 pm

Cons do not want emotions to prevail in matters such as these. They prefer to save the emotional outbursts for when they are attacking women that choose to use birth control pills, etc.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
3:56 pm

TP – “Cons do not want emotions to prevail in matters such as these. They prefer to save the emotional outbursts for when they are attacking women that choose to use birth control pills, etc.”

I haven’t been coming to this blog all that long, but in all that time, I can truthfully say that I have never heard anyone “attacking women that choose to use birth control pills.”

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:57 pm

To show you the character of liberals, they would exploit this horrible event to promote their agenda.

You caught me. I was promoting saving children from being killed by guns once owned by an irresponsible person. I admit it. That was my agenda. Damn. Why didn’t I wait to exploit it at a time of the NRA’s choosing.

skipper

December 17th, 2012
3:57 pm

@Bro,
Yes you are right. but some of these folks have basically declared what they were going to do. Perhaps the rules chould be changed when there is a clear and present danger……………….

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
3:57 pm

Did I mention, SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS! ?

Erwin's cat

December 17th, 2012
3:57 pm

ever heard of a flight simulator…or a company called f.a.t.s.?
http://www.meggitttrainingsystems.com/Commercial-ranges/Commercial-simulation-equipment/FATS-L7.aspx

gaming is training

TaxPayer

December 17th, 2012
3:58 pm

Stick around, nunna, and you might just be surprised what you read here over the course of many years.

Regnad Kcin

December 17th, 2012
3:58 pm

Nunna – you missed the “Sandra Fluke” postings? Lucky you! You still hear that “free birth control” fallacy here from time-to-time.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
3:58 pm

N. Yobinnes — “I haven’t been coming to this blog all that long, but in all that time, I can truthfully say that I have never heard anyone “attacking women that choose to use birth control pills.”

You should have been here around the time of the Sandra Fluke story.

Despite the fact that Fluke wasn’t even asking for health care or birth control for *herself,* numerous cons here called her (and some still call her) a “slut,” a “whore” and other similar names.

Joe Hussein Mama

December 17th, 2012
4:01 pm

Justice

December 17th, 2012
4:03 pm

It’s not the guns that kill…it’s the mentally insane, thugs, gangs, etc. I don’t remember anyone that killed in one of these haneous crimes having a consealed carry permit. Most police encourage law abiding citizens to get a permit because if you have to call 911 it’s too late! We as a Nation kill thousands of innocent children every year through abortions, drunk driving, child abuse, neglect, etc. but where is the compassion and support for these innocent victims??? We removed God and Prayer from our schools but when a tradegy such as this occurs we see the President quoting from the Bible. Well, maybe if he quoted the Bible more often and restored God and Prayer in our schools this type of tradegy wouldn’t happen. Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon of gun laws but when insane people want to kill, they will find a way. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer! Muslims used planes! This nutjob could have just as easily used propane, gas or some other explosive to killed just as many if not more. He could have used a vehicle to run them down on a playground! The problem is we as a society always want to blame something other than the root cause. There’s no accountability for crime anymore! The news media runs the name of this guy all vover the news for days on end and gives them the attention they wanted to start with. That’s what they want to go down in history with their name being a household name! Now, thanks to them we run the risk of more copycat killers! Look to the rap songs, video games, movies, etc. that portray this type of behavior as well!

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
4:03 pm

I would commend someone for using birth control, but rather than imposing that on the woman, their male partners should be encouraged to “put a hat on that puppy.”

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 17th, 2012
4:03 pm

More gun SHEETZ

GT

December 17th, 2012
4:04 pm

Moon B Betty how you raise your kids, my parents never had a gun in the house, walked around confident and never looked hypocritical about what they said and what they did. I’m a little amazed that these right wing gun nuts think all this adds up to a normal childhood. I couldn’t imagine my mother toting an assault weapon like Bonnie in Bonnie and Clyde, nothing cool about that.

Brosephus™

December 17th, 2012
4:06 pm

skipper

That’s why my opinion is that there is little to nothing we can do to stop these incidents from happening. Ideology and entrenched opinions make that virtually impossible. What we should be focusing on is how to keep from making ourselves a target.

I don’t go places without knowing where the exits are, even the emergency exits. Unless I’m with people that I am very comfortable with, I don’t sit with my back to doors or windows. Instead of spending all kinds of money on ways to turn schools into maximum security prisons, why not focus on ways to help kids excape as quickly as possible? We make airlines install inflatable slides on the doors of planes to expedite evacuation, why can’t we use that same principle on classroom windows and such?

I think the mental problem is something that should be addressed. While addressing that, we also need to address our addiction to medicating people for any and everything under the sun too. How many of these mental issues have we brought on as a side effect to medication of some kind?

indigo

December 17th, 2012
4:09 pm

Joe – 2:46

Soldiers stand at a school door.

Men approach the door.

The soldiers ask for ID.

The men pull out weapons.

The soldiers shoot them dead.

If your training did not teach you how to shoot straight and fast, then I seriously doubt you were ever in the Military in the first place.

GT

December 17th, 2012
4:09 pm

John WAYNE now that changes the whole argument.

As far as I’m concern you did kill the kids supporting guns the way you do. How is it when a drug is involved you hasten to blame the drug pusher even terrorism is a matter of drugs laundering according to your ads. If that is connecting then in the same logic you who are gun pushers killed those kids.

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
4:10 pm

theater of the ABSURD

to look for solutions that will prevent mentally ill people from committing acts of violence

we had that solution………. we locked them all up and gave them electroshock therapy

td

December 17th, 2012
4:12 pm

What in the h3ll are you libs talking about about the NRA website and FB account shut down?

You are all full of crap. I was just on both and they are fully operational.

GT

December 17th, 2012
4:14 pm

td I have no dealt you were.

Justice

December 17th, 2012
4:14 pm

You are one deranged person if you think people that support guns had anything to do with killing those kids. I guess since you drive a car any kid that is killed by a vehicle is your fault as well!

indigo

December 17th, 2012
4:15 pm

Peace – 3:45

There aren’t many things you can count on in this world, really count on.

But, when conservative Christians like you are forced to answer a question that shows just how convoluted and irrational their faith is, you can always count on a MOST UNCHRISTIAN outburst.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
4:16 pm

GT,

I am looking for a solution by identifying the root of the problem.

And society is the root of the problem.

Nunna Yobinnes

December 17th, 2012
4:17 pm

“td I have no dealt you were”

Habla Englais?

UNCLE SAMANTHA

December 17th, 2012
4:18 pm

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
4:16 pm
GT,

I am looking for a solution by identifying the root of the problem.

And society is the root of the problem.

========================================================================

the search for signs of intelligent life on this blog has hit PAYDIRT

GT

December 17th, 2012
4:19 pm

Justice deranged is the word of the day I have been looking for. A man or woman dressing themselves in military clothing and picturing Rambo is rather like playing doctor and filming it. Nothing sick about you, you got millions of right wings nuts to back up your thinking.

moonbat betty

December 17th, 2012
4:22 pm

And GT,

It’s not just parents toting guns around…

It’s parents that don’t care or pay attention to what their children are doing.

Everything from their kids getting involved in drugs and gangs to becoming isolated through technology (violent internet, games, music).

GT

December 17th, 2012
4:22 pm

moonbat betty not all society trust me, there has never been a more divided line in society than those who fear life and have no trust and those who live it for what it is worth.

GT

December 17th, 2012
4:28 pm

moonbat b you know what else I think heads us down this path, over religious parents who let the book do all their talking ,like that will cure the world. Same people will have a gun and a ton of fear but they believe in God, makes no sense why they are so afraid if they have God.

jays Brain

December 17th, 2012
7:58 pm

Lost in the gun debate
is the coming revolution of 3-d printing. People will be absolutely able to use open source software to build a firearm from the comfort of their home or office if they have a printer. Initial projects have already met with varying degrees of success and have already fired live rounds. Soon, it will be perfected. Gun control is a lost cause.

i stole this from another site

clem

December 17th, 2012
8:03 pm

nero, you sound pretty whiny to me complaining about jay. you know what you can do with your kimber.

A middle of the road skeptic

December 19th, 2012
1:44 am

While I think the seriousness of this issue certainly dictates the debate about gun ownership must be on the table, that’s as wise as placing a banquet in front of a starving obese man and then discussing the 300 calorie diet he is going to be placed on.

There is a thirst for violence in america – first person shooter games, virtually unlimited gun violence on our prime time television and movies, the glorification of the perpetrators in our national news media who broadcast everything about the guilty party, while leaving the stories and identities of the victims in the dust.

If you are going to “fix” this, you have to assign the discussion directly at that thirst for violence. That’s cultural, and until you do you can ban everything gun, bullet, and it won’t make a difference.

Guess who the number one responsible parties are to gun shootings and deaths? Drug crime related killings…

Last I check.. drugs are illegal in this country… how can this be possible?

And for those who think this administration is against assault weapons? Doubtful, as we’ve been selling our guns and assault weapons to mexican drug cartel since 2009. So the government sells bad things to bad men…

and we have folks believe they serious want to fix this issue here?

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120925/NEWS02/309250031/FACT-CHECK-Operation-Fast-Furious

dabir dalton

December 19th, 2012
7:15 pm

Jay…

Considering your support of abortion: the intentional murder of an unborn child within their mother’s womb. I find this essay more than just a tab bit ironic and hypocritical.