Will our anger be buried alongside Newtown’s dead?
A flag flies at half mast on a dark, wintry night in Newtown, Conn. This week, the townspeople will bury their dead, including the bodies of 20 young first-graders murdered by an assailant who broke into their school. Coffin manufacturers have donated the 20 small caskets that will be needed in the burials. (AP)
The Bushmaster .223, the weapon used by Adam Lanza to kill 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Each victim had been shot three to 11 times, according to the coroner's report. Lanza is reported to have brought multiple 30-round magazines to the school, and at the time of his death at his own hand still possessed hundreds of rounds of ammunition.
————————————–
Robbie Parker, the father of six-year-old Emilie, has had to explain her death to her two siblings, ages 3 and 4. "They seem to get the fact that they have somebody they're going to miss very much," he said.
An excerpt from President Barack Obama’s message to Newtown and the nation, delivered at a prayer vigil Sunday night (entire text available here):
“Someone once described the joy and anxiety of parenthood as the equivalent of having your heart outside of your body all the time, walking around. With their very first cry, this most precious, vital part of ourselves — our child — is suddenly exposed to the world, to possible mishap or malice. And every parent knows there is nothing we will not do to shield our children from harm.
And yet, we also know that with that child’s very first step, and each step after that, they are separating from us; that we won’t — that we can’t always be there for them. They’ll suffer sickness and setbacks and broken hearts and disappointments. And we learn that our most important job is to give them what they need to become self-reliant and capable and resilient, ready to face the world without fear.
And we know we can’t do this by ourselves. It comes as a shock at a certain point where you realize, no matter how much you love these kids, you can’t do it by yourself. That this job of keeping our children safe, and teaching them well, is something we can only do together, with the help of friends and neighbors, the help of a community, and the help of a nation. And in that way, we come to realize that we bear a responsibility for every child because we’re counting on everybody else to help look after ours; that we’re all parents; that they’re all our children.
This is our first task — caring for our children. It’s our first job. If we don’t get that right, we don’t get anything right. That’s how, as a society, we will be judged.
And by that measure, can we truly say, as a nation, that we are meeting our obligations? Can we honestly say that we’re doing enough to keep our children — all of them — safe from harm? Can we claim, as a nation, that we’re all together there, letting them know that they are loved, and teaching them to love in return? Can we say that we’re truly doing enough to give all the children of this country the chance they deserve to live out their lives in happiness and with purpose?”
I’ve been reflecting on this the last few days, and if we’re honest with ourselves, the answer is no.”
————————————–
The answer is no.
————————————–
– Jay Bookman
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977 comments Add your comment
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:26 am
From 2001 to 2007 there were 16,141 deaths caused by texting.
in 2000 there were 6,466 children that died in car accidents.
in 2009 there were 10,839 people that died from drunk drivers.
Texting while driving is bad, how many of you do it?
Drinking while driving is bad how many of you do it?
Let me guess none of you, riiiggght!
Recon 0311 2533
December 17th, 2012
10:26 am
This has gotten absurd. The left wants to blame conservatives the NRA along with guns and completely ignore improving our mental health treatment systems, addressing violence in movies, television and violent video games.
Lynnie Gal
December 17th, 2012
10:26 am
Grasshopper–your callous remarks about demonstrations of public grief over the massacre of first graders–and calling presidential speeches and news reports “grief-porn” is sickening.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:26 am
Keith — “And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?”
Dude, they ARE banned on airplanes.
I was in Washington on 9/11, and I had to mail my Victorinox knife back to myself here at home. Wasn’t sure if they were even going to let it come home in my *checked* baggage.
Doggone/GA
December 17th, 2012
10:26 am
“And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too”
No, they didn’t. They used an airplane to kill them.
Rick C
December 17th, 2012
10:28 am
Are the cons even capable of staying on topic here? All I see are ridiculous false equivalencies about abortions, cars, knives, texting, etc.
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:30 am
“Drinking while driving is bad how many of you do it?”
Con logic: If something can kill people, it’s all right if everthing kills people. WTF does that have to do with guns?
Jays brain
December 17th, 2012
10:30 am
Yep let’s ban those darn guns buts lets give child predators and molesters a slap on the wrist while claiming you are doing this to protect children. BULLHOCKEY
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:30 am
“in 2009 there were 10,839 people that died from drunk drivers.”
Again, Other Half, in 1982, 21,000 people were killed by drunk drivers. By tightening laws and regulations, we cut that number almost in half and saved almost 10,000 lives a year.
Not by banning cars.
Not by banning alcohol.
Merely by regulating their use and availablity and by tighter enforcement.
clem
December 17th, 2012
10:30 am
i think there needs to be a study on why some folks think so irrationally yet possess a modicum of intelligence.
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:31 am
“This has gotten absurd. The left wants to blame conservatives the NRA along with guns and completely ignore improving our mental health treatment systems, addressing violence in movies, television and violent video games”
Okay, you have a point. Do you have a suggestion, or is this just deflection?
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:31 am
Jat the MasterBaiter, geez I like the name Stands gave you,
You can probably get another weeks worth of blogs on this subject and guess what nothing will get done.
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 17th, 2012
10:32 am
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:24 am
The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)
That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget.
—————————————————————————————————————————
.
When the NRA has the money to buy Obama (and congress) like the Insurance companies did………and then FORCE every one to buy their products via Government gun-point…………then ..and only then……..will the NRA need be feared.
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:32 am
Improving mental-health services will require raising taxes.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 17th, 2012
10:32 am
Typical morning on the Jay Bookman page:
Liberals: only for “choice” if you are talking about abortion.”
You forgot: It’s ok to kill a child. Just don’t do it with an assault weapon
We really are doomed.
Doomed.
indigo
December 17th, 2012
10:32 am
Debbie – 10:08
Scalia and the other Justices could rule the following:
1. Handguns may only be six shot revolvers that must have the hammer pulled back by hand with each shot. They must all be .22 caliber.
2. Rifles may be only single shot bolt-action and all .22 caliber.
3. Shotguns may be only single shot and must all be 20 guage.
If this was the law and it was enforced, gun murders would at least go down.
TaxPayer
December 17th, 2012
10:33 am
Didn’t we pass some laws banning drinking and driving and impose penalties such as incarceration or removal of driving privileges or higher insurance premiums for those breaking the laws, etc. Something comparable for guns would be a start. That plus very large taxes on guns and ammo and gun manufacturers.
Brosephus™
December 17th, 2012
10:33 am
The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.
That stuff only happens in Hollywood. I posted this link last night @ 7:07 in reference to this very same idea.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/12/15/newtown-massacre-reawakens-question-of-gun-control/?cp=all#comment-1178700
Take a look at that post then and this post now less than 16 hours later and tell me what’s the difference?
http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2012?ref=sidebar
Line of Duty Deaths: 120
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 1
Automobile accident: 24
Duty related illness: 4
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 44
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 4
Stabbed: 5
Struck by vehicle: 6
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 11
If you’re too lazy to look back, within the 16 hours that I posted that information, two more police officers were killed in the line of duty by gunfire in one shooting incident. If two officers can be killed by one gunman who gets the drop on them, how can you be sure that one average person without the training would be better?
Recon 0311 2533
December 17th, 2012
10:33 am
The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.
Mike Fitzgerald
December 17th, 2012
10:34 am
I’ve heard two good retweets lately and I’m paraphrasing: From Michael Moore, “If only the first victim (Lanza’s mother) had been a gun owner, this tragedy could have been averted.” And from an NBC viewer I believe, “one guy tries to blow up an airplane with a shoe bomb and we all have to take off our shoes at the airport but mass shootings occur 41 times in schools in 12 years and nothing is done.”
Keith
December 17th, 2012
10:34 am
The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)
That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget. {YOUR EARLIER POST: More than 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million to the Fairfax, Virginia-based group, according to the NRA’s own list for a donor program that began in 2005.”
SINCE 2005!!
NRA members also buy their products and make other contributions in addition to membership dues. That $14.5 mil since 2005 is really pretty small wouldnt you say when you consider the $200 million dollar annual budget?
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:35 am
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:30 am
“in 2009 there were 10,839 people that died from drunk drivers.”
Again, Other Half, in 1982, 21,000 people were killed by drunk drivers. By tightening laws and regulations, we cut that number almost in half and saved almost 10,000 lives a year.
Not by banning cars.
Not by banning alcohol.
Merely by regulating their use and availablity and by tighter enforcement.
How in the hell do you regulate the use of alachol? and the Texting has gone out of control.
Stricter laws have helped some in drivers caught with alcohol but it’s still out of control.
I posted yesterday, 25 years for anyone caught using a deadly weapon committing a crime and 10 years if caught carrying a concealed weapon. You need to scare the criminals into reality.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:36 am
Recon — “The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.”
And Commandante Broad-Brush strikes again!
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
10:36 am
A writer mentioned that the NRA keeps its minions confused by preaching that “gun control” has everything to do with the 2nd amendment and our right to bear arms when, in fact, it doesn’t.
It’s two related but separate issues.
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/15/yes_we_can_have_sane_gun_control/
td
December 17th, 2012
10:36 am
TaxPayer
December 17th, 2012
10:33 am
Didn’t we pass some laws banning drinking and driving and impose penalties such as incarceration or removal of driving privileges or higher insurance premiums for those breaking the laws, etc. Something comparable for guns would be a start.
There are already those laws on the book. A criminal gets extra time for committing a crime with a gun (as it should be).
Keith
December 17th, 2012
10:37 am
Arm Mexican drug cartels, disarm the American people. Liberal logic at its finest.
TaxPayer
December 17th, 2012
10:37 am
I heard the latest in birth control pills now have an effective kill radius of 30 meters. Why are we talking about guns. It’s those abortion pills that are the real killers.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:38 am
The other half — “How in the hell do you regulate the use of alachol?”
Lots of ways.
Restrictions on time/place/amount of purchase, restricting purchase to state stores only (still in force in several states), imposition of levels of offense (e.g. less than 0.8 and over 0.8 BAL, etc.
clem
December 17th, 2012
10:39 am
recon proves some folks do not even have modicum of intelligence.
td
December 17th, 2012
10:39 am
Brosephus™
December 17th, 2012
10:33 am
The real tragedy here is that if just one person at the school would have been using his 2nd amendment law rights, this would have been prevented.
That stuff only happens in Hollywood. I posted this link last night @ 7:07 in reference to this very same idea.
What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:40 am
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:32 am
Improving mental-health services will require raising taxes.
Jay, If we could trust our parasitic politicans to spend our tax dollars wisely most people wouldn’t mind, but let’s be honest it will never happen.
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
10:40 am
tax ammunition like it’s a toxic chemical. Make it soooo expensive no one will be willing to fire a shot without taking out a loan.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:40 am
Keith — “Arm Mexican drug cartels, disarm the American people. Liberal logic at its finest.”
I love how, when your argument gets knocked down, you back off and come in again with a bulldada non-sequitur that no one here either said or thought.
Ed Johnson
December 17th, 2012
10:41 am
Can we not reduce the Newtown CT tragedy to subliminal messaging by doing the usual of putting a particular single face on it? How about a 4 x 5 featuring of all the kids?
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer...and Ban the Gun Thug!
December 17th, 2012
10:41 am
My Gawd, but some of y’all make me sick to my stomach. You assault weapon nuts, just ask yourself one question. What if it was your child in that school shot multiple time with a Bushmaster?
You can give no rational reason as to why there should not be a total ban on assault type weapons. None.
Mick
December 17th, 2012
10:41 am
**The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.**
Everything in your world is blame the left. In this case it all leads back to the mother having guns in a household with a mentally troubled son. There’s nothing left or right about it, just a very poor choice on her part…
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:42 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:38 am
The other half — “How in the hell do you regulate the use of alachol?”
Lots of ways.
Restrictions on time/place/amount of purchase, restricting purchase to state stores only (still in force in several states), imposition of levels of offense (e.g. less than 0.8 and over 0.8 BAL, etc.
So the guy stocks up on his booze, and buys it when the time is right. That’s just plain nuts.
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:42 am
Most of the comments from the right seem to fall into the “massacres happen, get used to it” or “cold dead fingers” camps.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 17th, 2012
10:42 am
Recon: “The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people”
As usual, only the right wing correctly notes that what we’re dealing with here is a radical breakdown of the social order, and of the human being that is at the center of it. But also, as usual, the right wing has the specific diagnosis completely backwards.
It is not the “radical left” that is at fault, it is global capitalism, in particular, the high-octane mainlined neoliberal capitalism that has been in the ascendancy since Thatcher and Reagan, and since the 2008 financial crisis has moved decisively to consolidate its hold over ever more of our lives.
It’s capitalism that is at the root of the overturning of basic human structures of meaning and identity formation, and the resulting unleashing of violence in every more baffling, random forms.
YDD
December 17th, 2012
10:42 am
Banning the sale of assault weapons and high volume ammunition as well as making no exceptions to background checks are such common sense ideas that I don’t see how anyone could oppose them. This conversation seems so lacking in any rational perspective that it seems surreal. Why does one need an assault weapon or this type of ammunition? Do you trust everyone enough to give them the means to slaughter large numbers of people?
TaxPayer
December 17th, 2012
10:43 am
What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?
You might have been calling her officer instead of teacher. I heard the pay and benefits are a lot better.
Citizen of the World
December 17th, 2012
10:43 am
I usually try to avoid “anger” — I heard it described as a secondary emotion caused by fear, hurt or frustration, which made sense to me — but in this case, I’m mad as hell. And just as mad at myself as anyone that I have not done more, said more to fight for more stringent gun control laws. Every senseless mass murder I say to myself, I need to write my representatives, march in the streets, something! But I haven’t. Shame on me.
godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen
December 17th, 2012
10:43 am
According to USA Today Timeline: 9:40 AM Shooting at school reported to police. 10:23 AM Police enter school. The shooter could have massacred 26 people with a single-shot rifle in 43 minutes.
High capacity clip and rate of fire irrelevant, but that’s what you all want to go after.
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:44 am
“I love how, when your argument gets knocked down, you back off and come in again with a bulldada non-sequitur that no one here either said or thought. ”
Keith was starting to wonder how unreality-based his comments have to be to get a response on this blog anymore. Attention-trolling at its finest.
Keith
December 17th, 2012
10:44 am
The point is that the same people that found it acceptable for Obama to arm criminals, even condemning those wanting to investigate it, are now demanding lawabiding citizens have their Constitutionally GUARANTEED rights restricted. Did Bookman,Schumer, YOU etc demand accountability for FF? Nope.
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:45 am
Finn de Siècle (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
10:40 am
tax ammunition like it’s a toxic chemical. Make it soooo expensive no one will be willing to fire a shot without taking out a loan.
Yep, and while your at it, tax cell phones 10k each so no one texts and why not 15k for each bottle of booze. Damn those were great ideas.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 17th, 2012
10:45 am
What is truly dumbfouning that there are now petitions to stop any petitions on an Assault Weapons Ban as unconstitutional (not true) with the idiotic arguments of “Due to the recent tragic events it has spiked a fear among the people who are against the law abiding citizens of America who support their right to amendment II of the constitution if we do not stand up for our ownership and rights now, they WILL be taken away! The Law abiding gun community had nothing to do with the acts committed by these sick individuals but in this current environment, legislation will be passed restricting gun ownership if we do nothing and remain silent
And then there is this failure of reason and logic: We ask President Obama to stand with law abiding gun owners in this time of tragedy. Guns laws could not have prevented Adam Lanza from killing 27 innocents. The real question is what made this disturbed young man into a murderer of children. Where is the outrage at the violent video games he played? A piece of plastic and steel doesn’t have a will Mr. President. Evil is not law abiding, and Adam Lanza stole those guns after failing to buy one legally. it is America’s law abiding gun owners who would have died with Victoria Soto and Dawn Hochsprung defending the children with only our bodies on December 14th, because it was already illegal to bring a gun into that school. Please don’t pander to the politics Mr. President. A feeding frenzy of new gun legislation is not the answer.
And this piece of stupidity (hmmm, amazing how they will argue to cut pensions, bargaining rights, salaries but then they want them to stand in harms way): Ex military with combat experience or from combat MOSs with very extensive training serve as armed security at all schools across the nation. Law enforcement is too short handed to carry the job plus this would help create jobs and keep veterans circulated back into the civilian working environment. 2 armed personnel at all times at school from 1hour before school starts to the last teacher or principal that leaves the school area.
But no new taxes to pay for these guards, right? There is a similar one about training teachers and arming them….the same people these cons have been badmouthing for being so bad at teaching.
And then of course the Red Dawn Brigade has their own petition: Ensure the Federal Government cannot and will not infringe upon the citizens of the United States of America’s Second Amendment in any way that could suppress them from defending themselves against a tyrannical government, foreign or domestic. This includes firearms, magazines, clips, ammunition, and suppressors.
All of these petitions on now on the WH website. But hey, the good news is that PERHAPS, just perhaps, we can finally have a discussion about sensible gun laws and gun safety.
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:45 am
“I posted yesterday, 25 years for anyone caught using a deadly weapon committing a crime and 10 years if caught carrying a concealed weapon. You need to scare the criminals into reality.”
That would be of no use. Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences. You also mention texting. Texting while driving is banned in Georgia and many other states.
Partisay
December 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Keith
December 17th, 2012
10:19 am
And terrorists used boxcutters and airplanes to murder 3000. You proposing to ban those things too?
__________________________________________________________________________________
Boxcutters ARE banned on airplanes now. Got any more brilliant commentary?
hiram
December 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Here is the most powerful gun lobby in the U.S.
http://www.freedom-group.com/
The Freedom Group is owned by Ceberus Capital Management.
http://www.cerberuscapital.com/
If you disagree with manufacturing and marketing assault rifles to idiots, check your pension funds and retirement investments, and purge this company.
oops
December 17th, 2012
10:46 am
Let’s be honest here. Automatic weapon owners are crazy people. Crazy people don’t want more mental health regulation or controls on guns because those will keep the guns out of the hands of those crazy people.
Trying to buy an automatic weapon should probably mean you win a free ticket to see a psychologist. Or a one way ticket to Alaska.
Steve
December 17th, 2012
10:47 am
“**The radical far-left is largely responsible for the decay in our society that has resulted in the tragic events we’ve seen at Sandy Hook elementary school and the other senseless mass murders of innocent people.**”
Actually, Einstein, this mother was likely a FAR RIGHT paranoid who watched Glen Beck and ate up right wing conspiracy theories…hence all those un-necessary guns at her home in that safe, quiet little town.
oops
December 17th, 2012
10:47 am
“Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences.”
Especially suicide mission ones that are completely loco.
Trigger locks.
saywhat?
December 17th, 2012
10:48 am
Line of Duty Deaths: 120
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 1
Automobile accident: 24
Duty related illness: 4
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 44
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 4
Stabbed: 5
Struck by vehicle: 6
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 11
—————————–
I am surpised not to see propane tank IED on that list, given that they are such a dangerous and easy to make substitute for guns.
godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen
December 17th, 2012
10:48 am
indigo: The Bushmaster rifle is .22 caliber.
saywhat?
December 17th, 2012
10:48 am
“surprised”
Brosephus™
December 17th, 2012
10:49 am
Jay @ 9:56
Getting caught up, but thanks for posting that.
—————————
JKL2 @ 9:58
Is this a reference to single v. double action? We all know there is absolutely nothing you can do to adjust the trigger squeeze on a weapon.
Really? You can always modify the gun by replacing the stock trigger with one that breaks at a much lower pressure point. I would not have used “absolutely nothing” with that statement as that’s not true.
—————————
indigo @ 10:00
Exactly. What one person sees as madness, someone else may see as normal. My advice would be just to learn to live and enjoy each and every day.
The other half of your brain.
December 17th, 2012
10:49 am
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:45 am
“I posted yesterday, 25 years for anyone caught using a deadly weapon committing a crime and 10 years if caught carrying a concealed weapon. You need to scare the criminals into reality.”
That would be of no use. Violent criminals are not deterred by the length of prison sentences. You also mention texting. Texting while driving is banned in Georgia and many other states.
Actually Jay, overall crime is down because we have more bad guys in prison than ever before.
Exactly my point, outlaw texting and it still goes on and what’s the penalty? ZIP
ATL Born and Raised
December 17th, 2012
10:49 am
@Keith The US is the largest arms dealer in the world. We armed the Taliban, too, when it was convenient for us. Now how many of those weapons are killing our soldiers? Things like this aren’t isolated to the Obama administration and I hardly think anyone here is advocating that these types of arms deals are “okay”. But they also have nothing to do with this mass shooting.
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
10:49 am
The mom was a “Prepper”.
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
10:50 am
We need to start profiling white people. Most mass executions like Friday are by white guys.
JKL2
December 17th, 2012
10:50 am
Most of the comments from the left seem to fall into the “ban anything potentially dangerous and put warning labels on everything else” or “outlawing guns will eliminate violent crime” camps.
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:51 am
“High capacity clip and rate of fire irrelevant, but that’s what you all want to go after.”
If that’s true, heathen, then nothing is lost in banning high-capacity clips and firearms with high rates of fire, correct? I mean, if it’s irrelevant, as you claim. However, it sure seems to me that a lot of gun enthusiasts DO think it’s VERY relevant, since they spend a lot of money buying those things.
The Aurora Colo. killer thought it was relevant, which is why he took those weapons into the movie theater. The Newtown killer thought it was relevant, based on his choice of weaponry. The Clackamas mall shooter thought it was relevant, because he too had an AR-15. The Norway killer clearly thought it was relevant as well.
Keith
December 17th, 2012
10:51 am
The NRA claims 4 million members. Membership costs $25 a year. (Source: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?CampaignID=iygr)
That accounts for $100 million of a $200 million annual budget.
Someone claimed the NRA was funded by the arms industry. 14 mil since 2005, SEVEN YEARS!. A drop in the bucket to an organization with an annual budget of 200 million dollars. Do the math. 200 million times SEVEN vs. 14.5 mil.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:51 am
The other half — “So the guy stocks up on his booze, and buys it when the time is right. That’s just plain nuts.”
What’s your point? This is what Governor Perdue told folks to do when the complaints about no Sunday sales became too loud for him.
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:51 am
“Yep, and while your at it, tax cell phones 10k each so no one texts and why not 15k for each bottle of booze. Damn those were great ideas.”
Other half, please read slowly – the purpose of assulat weapons is to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time – it has no other purpose. Texting deaths are tragic, but killing people is not a phone’s primary purpose. That puts assault weapons into a special class.
If you don’t understand, please read the preceding again. Or post a question about the parts you don’t understand – we’re here to help.
saywhat?
December 17th, 2012
10:51 am
The mom was a “Prepper”.
——————————–
Apparently the crazy apple doesn’t fall far from the crazy tree.
clem
December 17th, 2012
10:52 am
that’s odd on timeline as a teacher said on tv this morning the time between when she heard pops and someone on intercom came to when police arrived was fairly soon (which doesn’t seem like 43 minutes)
Common Sense
December 17th, 2012
10:52 am
“Tell that to the two armed police officers shot in the head and killed last night in Kansas while responding to a suspicious vehicle call.”
Would their chances have been better if they were unarmed?
pcBobby
December 17th, 2012
10:52 am
I like the drunk driving analogy. Indeed no jurisdiction will eradicate drunk driving tragedies, but with awareness, the laws no doubt reduced those tragedies. Now, that’s “common sense.” It’s insane how the far right hijacked the term, “common sense.”
Welcome to the Occupation
December 17th, 2012
10:53 am
What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?
As Jay said above: dumb arguments and all …
stands for decibels
December 17th, 2012
10:53 am
The shooter could have massacred 26 people with a single-shot rifle in 43 minutes.
You’ve clearly never used a single shot long arm before. Some adult would have dashed his brains against the floor with a heavy object (a kid’s desk would do) before he’d loaded the third or fourth round.
ndigo: The Bushmaster rifle is .22 caliber.
erm… you do understand the difference between center fire and rim fire shells and… oh, never mind. I think some who are far gun-nuttier than Yrs Trly should get to have their way with you on this one.
Krystal'sBalls
December 17th, 2012
10:53 am
Let me first acknowledge that I own one if these very .223 caliber Bushmasters, and I do so with deliberation. However, I also do so with sound mind and conscience. I am of the opinion that the U.S. has a bit of soul searching to do. It is very easy to be appalled at what has taken place in CT, because based on the imagery and news reports no one ever expects it to happen “there”. The truth of the matter though is that in a society overrun by selfishness, where people only desire to exist in their own little bubbles and all else be damned, it is no wonder we see these events with more frequency.
I have to be honest about something. I went back last week and reviewed the documented occurences of these mass shootings since Obama has become President, and please understand I am not trying to politicize this thing, but over about the past 15 years the U.S. has been minimal – until he took office has averaged only about 2-3 a year. Since he was elected, we have had 19, SEVEN of them taking place this year alone! Since 2008 we have allowed our anger to go to new levels, partly because too many people in this country have this crazy notion that someone is trying to take it over. As a result, we have seen unprecedented spikes in firearms and ammo sales, caustic rhetoric, violent imagery and so many other negative things. What’s worse, people tout it as their RIGHT to be so, again all else be damned. For the first time in my life I saw people carrying guns and rifles near a Presidential function in 2009 saying they’re “taking our country back”. Sick really and there is no justification for such a thing. Yet people justified it.
We cannot continue to spend our time dodging constructive dialogue. There are a lot of questions to be answered about this thing. I just hope people will wake up and realize that the “chickens coming home to roost” (as Rev. Jeremiah Wright notoriously stated and was lambasted for it) is a real phenomenon when so much negative energy is put out there into the world. Call it Karma or whatever you must if you believe in that. It needs to be fixed and fixed asap.
godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen
December 17th, 2012
10:53 am
Really? You can always modify the gun by replacing the stock trigger with one that breaks at a much lower pressure point. I would not have used “absolutely nothing” with that statement as that’s not true.
My new Remington has an exterior screw for adjusting the trigger pull weight. Suweet!
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:53 am
Keith — “The point is that the same people that found it acceptable for Obama to arm criminals, even condemning those wanting to investigate it, are now demanding lawabiding citizens have their Constitutionally GUARANTEED rights restricted.”
And what’s one got to do with the other? NOTHING.
“Did Bookman,Schumer, YOU etc demand accountability for FF? Nope.”
You don’t speak for me, Champ, and you sure can’t read my mind.
TaxPayer
December 17th, 2012
10:54 am
Actually Jay, overall crime is down because we have more bad guys in prison than ever before.
Last time I heard, that’s hard to do without first imposing laws to restrict the acts that landed them there in the first place.
Brosephus™
December 17th, 2012
10:54 am
What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?
There’s a 50/50 chance that she even gets a shot off. Action is always faster than reaction. If the shooter is already in the hall ready to fire, he only has to squeeze the trigger to shoot her. If she’s coming out into the hallway, she has to acquire her target and ready herself to shoot before she can shoot him. Nine times out of 10, she likely loses.
I proposed that people go out to a paintball center and try all these solutions to see how effective they are in a real-life stressful event. One thing that changes between thinking the “what if’s” vs actually being in that situation is that you lose fine motor skills in stressful situations. If that teacher hasn’t trained her gross motor skills to react in defense in a split second, she’s not gonna automatically respond just because the situation needs her to.
Crazy Peeps
December 17th, 2012
10:55 am
Why can’t I buy a howitzer and tank? Those are just arms.
Ronald Reagan
December 17th, 2012
10:56 am
Was that the same type of guns used to kill our citizens & soldiers in BENGHAZI? Maybe we should also consider outlawing a Presidential candidate from allowing our people to be killed & downplaying it for political reasons!
Steve
December 17th, 2012
10:56 am
When reading some of the uneducated posts here, I wonder – has the right wing purpously starved our school systems to the point where half of the population is borderline mentally retarded?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 17th, 2012
10:56 am
While I am for restricting access to high capacity clips and assault weapons, I believe one of the quickest ways we can work to bring some sense to all of this is to start TAXING bullets and weapons. The money can be used to increase security, create victim funds, fund bullet proof vests for law enforcement. And for those who would whine about the costs of training with guns or losing out of their sport, we can have a lower fee for bullets fired at a gun range or for certain types of hunting rifles in season along with microstamping bullets so they can be traced to the purchasers. You have your “constitutional right” to your gun but you should be responsible and pay for the actual costs of your entitlement without taxpayer subsidy.
GT
December 17th, 2012
10:56 am
A man gets though security with a shoe bomb, unsuccessful in his execution, and we are all subject to our shoes being examined, off our feet, at every airport in the world. More people died of gun violence in this country last year than the entire history of the Viet Nam War yet not one finger is lifted to prevent a problem we share with very few other countries. Even a woman that has 15 kids figures out somewhere along the line where those kids are coming from.
ATL Born and Raised
December 17th, 2012
10:56 am
@Crazy Peeps
I’m looking into enriched uranium myself…
Jay
December 17th, 2012
10:57 am
“What might have happened if that teacher that went out into the hall and tried to stop the killer (with only her own body) would have had a gun and had been trained to use it?”
Oh, I don’t know. What do YOU think would have happened if a schoolteacher armed with a pistol was surprised by an experienced intruder such as Adam Lanza, armed with an AR-15 equipped with a 30-round magazine?
Again, just last night two trained, professional and armed police officers were shot in the head and killed in Kansas by a single suspect when they were responding to a “suspicious vehicle” call. These Rambo fantasies are pathetic. Firearms can be useful in defending a home from invasion, but out in the world the criminal with the element of surprise has a huge advantage.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
10:58 am
C. Peeps — “Why can’t I buy a howitzer and tank? Those are just arms.”
Why, it’s because your Second Amendment rights have been abridged by Teh Librulz.
If not for them, you could have a mortar range and a 50-cal HMG set up in your back yard. And you could be nitrating glycerine in your kitchen sink for grins, too.
/sarc
stands for decibels
December 17th, 2012
10:58 am
Was that the same type of guns used to kill our citizens & soldiers in BENGHAZI?
I am having one of those “I know I shouldn’t laugh, but…” moments.
The deflecturbation is fast and furious here, innit? Best get a ‘brolly for the spunk shower.
JKL2
December 17th, 2012
10:58 am
Brosephus- Really? You can always modify the gun by replacing the stock trigger with one that breaks at a much lower pressure point.
That was the point I was making.. You missed the sarcasm addressed at the previous poster saying the Bushmaster was evil because it had a “soft trigger”.
Keith
December 17th, 2012
10:58 am
What happens when you people start screaming about banning guns? More people buy more of them. So AR15s are flying off the shelves at gunstores thanks to people like Mr Bookman. And if the ban is reinstated, they will still have them. They may even buy several in order to sell some if your ban is reinstated. May be a good investment right now. Kinda defeats your purpose doesnt it?
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:59 am
“Was that the same type of guns used to kill our citizens & soldiers in BENGHAZI?”
Your lack of anything intelligent to contribute is acknowledged.
Crazy Peeps
December 17th, 2012
10:59 am
ATL born.
I want a fighter jet. Missiles included. And a few shoulder fired rocket launchers too.
Steve
December 17th, 2012
10:59 am
If everyone carried a gun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3R0mECjEh8
clem
December 17th, 2012
10:59 am
the chairman for cerberus is dan quayle…says it all
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
11:00 am
Keith — “And if the ban is reinstated, they will still have them. They may even buy several in order to sell some if your ban is reinstated. May be a good investment right now. Kinda defeats your purpose doesnt it?”
You seem to miss the qualitative difference in a *sales* ban and an *ownership* ban.
ATL Born and Raised
December 17th, 2012
11:00 am
@Crazy Peeps
Yeah, I need it so scare away coyotes on my farm. Or something.
td
December 17th, 2012
11:00 am
Regnad Kcin
December 17th, 2012
10:51 am
“Other half, please read slowly – the purpose of assulat weapons is to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time – it has no other purpose. ”
To be factually accurate then you must mention that .223 caliber weapons are legal to hunt with also.
Main point is that you are absolutely right and is the reason they are important for law abiding Americans to be able to have so that the intent of the 2nd Amendment is in full force.
godless heathen - Law Abiding Citizen
December 17th, 2012
11:00 am
erm… you do understand the difference between center fire and rim fire shells and… oh, never mind. I think some who are far gun-nuttier than Yrs Trly should get to have their way with you on this one.
Is it true or not that the Bushmaster is a 22 caliber? (and I certainly know the difference between centerfire and rimfire.) As long as indigo was listing the requirements for the guns to be allowed he/she might as well be informed.
Partisay
December 17th, 2012
11:01 am
“Someone claimed the NRA was funded by the arms industry. 14 mil since 2005, SEVEN YEARS!. A drop in the bucket to an organization with an annual budget of 200 million dollars. Do the math. 200 million times SEVEN vs. 14.5 mil.”
Haven’t you already been over this once? So “someone” claimed it? Well, then that “someone” was wrong.
“Some” people also claim that the left wants to ban “all” guns. They are wrong too. So what’s your point?
Keith
December 17th, 2012
11:01 am
Another income stream the NRA utilizes that has nothing to do with membership dues and the industry.
http://www.nragive.com/#/ringoffreedom
When people die their collections go to the NRA for future sale.
TaxPayer
December 17th, 2012
11:01 am
Once we elect a God fearing, gun-toting, antiqued white ultra-conservative male as our president, all of our fears will melt away and then the market will be flooded with cheap AR15’s that no one wants. Our land will once again be secure against those that would harm our constitution. Or something like that. I may have even heard Paul Broun use those exact words but I can’t be sure since I try not to listen to such “fruitcakes”.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 17th, 2012
11:02 am
C. Peeps — “And a few shoulder fired rocket launchers too.”
Are you talking about LAWs or something more in the surface-to-air line, like a Stinger?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger