Newtown massacre reawakens question of gun control

The United States suffers more gun deaths and mass shootings than any other major industrialized country. It’s not even close. And of the dozen most deadly mass killings in U.S. history, half have occurred within the past five years. In other words, if you believe that these things are happening more and more often, the numbers validate that belief.

The question is why.

The NRA and its supporters say the problem is not easy access to guns. To the contrary, they often argue that the problem is a shortage of guns. If only we had more guns in circulation, fewer would die. The day before the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the Michigan Legislature embraced that theory in passing a law allowing those with concealed carry permits to possess weapons in schools, churches and other formerly gun-free areas. Michigan’s governor has yet to say whether he intends to sign such a bill.

However, there is no evidence to support the NRA’s contention. Those countries with much lower death rates do not achieve those rates by allowing free and easy access to guns by almost everybody, regardless of training. Quite the contrary. Those few countries in which guns are even more ubiquitous than the United States — countries such as Iraq — have much higher death rates.

In addition, gun laws are more lax here in the South and guns themselves are more numerous. Under the NRA theory, that ought to produce a more civil, less violent society. The data say otherwise:

assault-deaths-us-ts-region-1

On the other hand, those who turn reflexively to gun control as an answer must acknowledge the inadequacies of that approach as well. Yesterday’s school shooting took place in Connecticut, a state with strong gun-control laws. The pistols that were used — a Sig Sauer and a Glock of undetermined model — had been legally obtained and were registered to Nancy Lanza, the late mother of the 20-year-old shooter. It has been widely reported that a Bushmaster .223 assault weapon — a version of the AR-15 — was found in the trunk of the vehicle driven by Adam Lanza to the school. However, Lt. Paul Vance of the Connecticut state patrol said at a press conference this morning that all recovered weapons were found in close proximity to Lanza’s body.

The high kill rate in the shootings — only one person was wounded and survived — suggests Lanza was experienced with firearms. But based on what we know now, it is hard to explain in concrete, direct fashion how any reasonable set of changes to our gun laws would have prevented Friday’s tragedy.

For example, I have not been able to find any more specific information about the types of pistols used in the attack, or whether those pistols or the Bushmaster were equipped with high-capacity magazines. As a practical matter, outlawing pistols would not be feasible given how many are already in circulation. It would also be impossible politically. Outlawing high-capacity magazines might be another matter, but again, as of yet we have no indication they played a role in this attack.

Guns are inanimate objects. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. I accept all of that as fact. However, I would have no problem whatsoever with again outlawing military-style assault weapons. Neither would the U.S. Supreme Court, even based on its most recent pro-gun rulings.

As gun supporters point out, and accurately so, other semi-automatic weapons are capable of delivering the same high fire rate as those described as assault weapons. It is striking, however, that these “other” weapons do not typically show up in the hands of mass murderers such as Adam Lanza. The military-style design of assault weapons may be superficial, but it gives them a powerful mystique to weak-minded souls pursuing visions of vengeance and power.

Speaking in general, rather than in reaction to the Newtown strategy, it is reasonable to propose that the legal ability to purchase and possess deadly firearms be linked to training and testing on the responsible use of such weapons. That would be a regulation of people, not of guns. Such proposals would nonetheless be fought bitterly by the NRA because they would reduce gun sales, and the NRA is in many ways nothing more than a front for its gun-industry sponsors.

Such laws would in no way infringe on constitutional rights as outlined in the Second Amendment and Supreme Court opinions. The millions of law-abiding, responsible gun owners in this country would have nothing to fear from such a system. In fact, as the NRA often points out correctly, those gun owners who have gone through the steps required to obtain a concealed carry permit rarely use those guns in crime. That record suggests a possible path forward for those who recognize both the constitutional right to possess firearms and the necessity of mitigating the damage done when those guns fall into the wrong hands.

– Jay Bookman

1,704 comments Add your comment

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
11:27 am

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
11:28 am

Now I will read the piece.

TM

December 15th, 2012
11:39 am

Jay I suggest that your law would have have done absolutly nothing to prevent this since it appears the mother bought the guns. What needs to change is how we find those in our society who have the ability to do this and what we are going to do with them. I seem to remember a time when there was a big mental heath facility in Decatur and north of the Perimeter that treated our trouble youth but those have long since closed since society has seemed to think everything can be cured with a pill however no one seems to know what to do when they don;t take the pill.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
11:40 am

This man was a law-abiding citizen with a schoolteacher mother.
The only thing that would have prevented this would have been
to protect the children with proper security.

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
11:42 am

Most of these shooters have shown signs of personality problems prior to the shooting. One answner is to focus more on treatment of people with mental problems.

Mental disorders shoudl be discussed more and shoudl be recognized as brain disorders – just as other diseases – and treated without shame.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
11:43 am

TM, I am prepared to accept that finding, should that be the way the evidence points. However, the presence if not use of the AR-15 suggests otherwise.

And again, the particular model of Glock and Sig Sauer, and the potential use of high-capacity magazines for those weapons, has yet to be determined. Let’s go where the evidence takes us.

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
11:44 am

Proper security would help. I saw an interview with one teacher who took her class of sixteen into the bathroom, locked the door and kept them quiet. They all came out safe and unhurt.

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
11:46 am

Holding the gun owners responsible for the use of their guns is another thing we should do. Responsible people that own guns should keep them locked up and out of the reach of other people, even their own family members.

josef

December 15th, 2012
11:47 am

I agree that this is a matter which should be discussed. I am not sure that today when emotions are so raw is the time. I am afraid it may into a similar category as the photo run with yesterday’s initial thread, capitalizing in the sensational. By that I don’t mean in the contemporary use of the term, but in its more basic meaning of appeal to the visual and auditory devoid of thought and reflection.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
11:47 am

Oscar cheated!! :)
=====================
Jay: The NRA and its supporters say the problem is not easy access to guns. To the contrary, they often argue that the problem is a shortage of guns. If only we had more guns in circulation, fewer would die.

You can get a gun sometimes faster than you can get a date. The lady who shot and killed that Tennessee QB and herself a couple of years ago, just asked a friend to get her one and she had one the next day. She didn’t go through the process of getting a license, etc.; she just went to someone she figured would know how to get her a gun.

Circulation isn’t the problem. The solution? Well, thats a bit harder to pinpoint.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
11:48 am

“This man was a law-abiding citizen with a schoolteacher mother.
The only thing that would have prevented this would have been
to protect the children with proper security.

The latest indications are that the mother was NOT a schoolteacher, at least not in the Newtown district. Evidence also indicates that Lanza was initially barred from entering the school by its security system, but that he shot out windows to gain access.

The idea that any feasible security system in an elementary school could keep out a heavily armed intruder with murderous intentions is probably wishful thinking. Look at the extensive security systems and numbers of armed personnel needed to keep places such as courthouses safe. Are you going to install that in every school?

And then in every movie house, as in Aurora, Colo., or in every mall, as in Clackamas Ore.?

TM

December 15th, 2012
11:50 am

Jay- now your regulating guns not the people who buy them. If you want to do both say so. I personally have no use for such high capacity magazines. I have a number of guns we use in my family to hunt and for protection. The problem is the NRA believes in a slippery slope and I am not sure they are wrong

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
11:50 am

TM: I seem to remember a time when there was a big mental heath facility in Decatur and north of the Perimeter that treated our trouble youth but those have long since closed since society has seemed to think everything can be cured with a pill however no one seems to know what to do when they don;t take the pill.

That’s not the reason those facilities closed — cite your governor for not allocating FUNDS to keep those hospitals open.

As great as philanthropy and volunteering is, MONEY keeps the lights on and the water flowing.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
11:50 am

The best possible solution to all of this is simply to live life to the fullest everyday, as if it was your last one.

There are no laws that can be applied in our country that will stop this kind of incident. There is no way to predict that someone who legally buys a gun today for home protection will not just go off the deep end 10 years later and commit violence on this level. There is no way you will be able to screen someone for a mental deficiency today if it doesn’t manifest itself years down the road.

The best thing one can do to not become a victim is to always be aware of your surroundings. If you carry concealed or own a gun, try to constantly train to the point that your reactions are automatic. When the airborn fecal matter hits the oscillating wind generator, if those actions are not automatic, you could end up giving the shooter another weapon to use. Be aware of exits in case you need to get out quick, and communicate these things with your family. Always have an escape plan.

josef

December 15th, 2012
11:51 am

FROG

“Most of these shooters have shown signs of personality problems prior to the shooting. One answner is to focus more on treatment of people with mental problems.”

Which, I would offer, is what we should be talking about today. Guns are the how. We know that. What we need to be looking at is the why, and that falls into the arena you bring up.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
11:51 am

Josef, I have some sympathy for that point of view. The alternative, however, is to let this tragedy pass on the theory that we’ll have this discussion later.

Which we won’t. As horrific as it seems today, it will soon fade from memory as the previous incidents have.

Eric Goodman

December 15th, 2012
11:52 am

The apparent insanity of the killing of these individual school children at random is mind-boggling. Anytime this happens to innocent children it is senseless. Even idiots whose society or beliefs support the killing of entire families of their enemies have some kind of sick excuse. Even the worst characters that are murdering people in the movies usually let the children go. What has happened in this elementary school and in similar events that have occurred in the past will continue to happen until we deal with this problem logically. Mentally impaired individuals are not going away. Things that can be used to kill children such as knives, clubs, guns, hands, chemicals, gasses, and automobiles are not going away. Large grouping or assemblies of children in places like schools are a given. Police response time can be fairly quick in some instances, but even the best times are not good enough. Huge Swat teams are great for a stand-off, but can’t react fast enough, even if they are just up the street of an incident. Let me describe the framework for a solution. All college, high school, junior/middle school campuses be required to have at least one armed guard such as a policeman on site. All elementary schools or preschools be required to have at least one individual staff member or worker on site licensed, trained, and armed using conceal and carry. If only the vice-principal wounded in the attack had been trained and armed. We have armed Air Marshalls on planes. We need to adapt.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
11:52 am

Debbie Do
You can get a gun sometimes faster than you can get a date
………………………………………………………………………
i am so not believing that…especially with the boa…

Eleutherius

December 15th, 2012
11:53 am

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
11:54 am

“Are you going to install that in every school?”

There is something that could be done to help make even little children contribute to their own safety. After 911 security experts agreed that one thing passengers on a plane or train could do when threatened is to to throw things, LOTS of things, at the gunmen…to make it much harder for them to focus and aim.

Children could be taught a “game” of “throw the toy” when their teacher tells them to. And then keep plenty of toys handy for them to use. And apart from any possible safety issues, it might be a good way to help use of some of the energy kids have!

TM

December 15th, 2012
11:56 am

How many remember these since 1999. How soon we seem to forget and this is just is our USA

December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.

September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.

April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

August 3, 2010. Omar S. Thornton, 34, gunned down Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, CT after getting caught stealing beer. Nine were killed, including Thornton, and two were injured.

November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.

April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.

October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.

March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.

March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.

March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MI in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7.

September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
11:56 am

josef
sympathetic to your viewpoint but this man’s mother was a teacher,
trained observer and educator and evidently she didn’t suspect.

josef

December 15th, 2012
11:58 am

JAY

And as much as I had rather not, I find myself agreeing with that. Today and events such as this is when I do not envy you in the least your job. And, I trust you understand that what I have said is not directed at you personally. You are simply doing your job.

The other half of your brain.

December 15th, 2012
11:59 am

Jay

December 15th, 2012
11:43 am

And again, the particular model of Glock and Sig Sauer, and the potential use of high-capacity magazines for those weapons, has yet to be determined. Let’s go where the evidence takes us

What’s the difference if the magazine holds 5 rounds or 15, the killer will just carry more magazines and who would be there to stop him?

Why not make the laws so strict that people may think twice before carrying weapone,
for instance, if caught commiting a crime with a gun or knife, 25 years in prison with no parole.

If caught carrying an illegal weapon, 10 years in prison. Not the wimpy laws that we now have.
I can’t wait to see what the ACLU would do with that.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:01 pm

“sympathetic to your viewpoint but this man’s mother was a teacher,
trained observer and educator and evidently she didn’t suspect”

There is some doubt about that, but even if she was…she was ALSO a Mother…and Mothers have been shown over and over to not recognize problems in their children. Personally, I have no doubt that only too often they fight NOT to believe their children have problems because of a perception that it reflects on them as a Mother.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
12:03 pm

Jay

I read a report earlier today that says a fourth gun was recovered at the scene.

The other half of your brain.

December 15th, 2012
12:03 pm

Bro,Your 11:50 post is right on. We may not agree with some things but we sure do on this.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
12:03 pm

“What’s the difference if the magazine holds 5 rounds or 15, the killer will just carry more magazines and who would be there to stop him?

Fine, then there will be no problem if we ban the 15-round mag, correct? You know, since they’re all the same and all? The people who buy the high-capacity magazines certainly believe there’s a difference, correct?

Furthermore, there is little evidence that long prison terms have any deterrent effect on crimes of violence. To the degree they are useful in crime control, it’s by keeping violent people off the streets for a long time.

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:04 pm

“and evidently she didn’t suspect.”

We don’t that for sure yet. There may have been any number of people who suspected something and may have even been a diagnosed disorder he was being treated for, but we don’t have that information yet. One problem is that even when there is a diagnosed disorder, there’s no legal precedent for how that is to be handled and what anyone is required to do to protect both the ill individual and those around him. You can call the police and report someone acting erratcially, and there isn’t much they can do unless there is clear evidence of intended harm. We need to analyze how we as a society deal with mental illness, and there needs to be a far greater level of acceptance of treatment. We tend to deny its existence or are embarrassed to talk about it. As a society, we know there are emotionally unstable people out there, but we tend to overlook them. We have a very nonchalant and/or negative view of mental health issues and the need for ongoing treatment.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
12:04 pm

When these tragic mass murders occur the NRA always gets pointed out as being culpable. These crime are perpetrated by those with severe mental issues and the NRA has advocated a national well maintained data base that includes not just convicted felons but also suspected terrorists and those who have a history of mental illness or have been suspected of mental illness. Such individuals should be unable to purchase firearms or possess them. There has been far too little cooperation from the federal government in building such a database or improving our mental health systems in providing diagnostics and treatment of those with mental disorders.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:04 pm

Jay
Are you going to install that in every school?
………………………
Yes.

Not a schoolteacher. Don’t know where the Rifle was located..
So we don’t know anything due to misreporting by the MEDIA..
Typical and we can’t afford to protect the children like the courthouses
and all securitized public buildings and airports. Much better to legislate.
The man could have done this with a BLUNDERBUSS.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:05 pm

Enter your comments here”Why not make the laws so strict that people may think twice before carrying weapone, for instance, if caught commiting a crime with a gun or knife, 25 years in prison with no parole”

And how many murders have stricter laws prevented? According to an interview I heard yesterday the USA alone suffers 15,000 murder a YEAR. Doesn’t seem to me that stricter laws have much preventative value.

td

December 15th, 2012
12:05 pm

Jay

December 15th, 2012
11:43 am

TM, I am prepared to accept that finding, should that be the way the evidence points. However, the presence if not use of the AR-15 suggests otherwise.

I have been hunting and shooting guns for more then 30 years and I can tell you that in an environment such as the close quarters of a school that a 9mm or sig is a much more proficient weapon for hitting a greater number of targets at a faster rate then a bulky AR-15.

The size of the clip is not really a relevant point either because from the reports I have read this killer had to have had multiple clips and reloaded. From what I have heard there was more then 100 rounds fired and if the guns were equipped with the police version of the 15 round clip for both guns then the shooter would have had to reload at least 6 times. We really need to thank God that this young man was such a bad shot or there would have been more children killed. A 20 something % accuracy rate at close range is horrible shooting.

The AR -15 or military fully automatic version M-16 was designed for the battlefield and not for urban assault areas and yes I know to you non gun users it looks intimidating but this killers choices was a great deal more effective.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
12:06 pm

SoCoBro: The best thing one can do to not become a victim is to always be aware of your surroundings

Bro — you are turning into a DDR! Working with the “undesirables” in life has taught me to always be aware. Even the most innocuous situations can turn on ya on a dime.

josef — When IS the perfect time? stands posted this on the other blog downstairs that needs repeating, (don’t tell stands i read his stuff — he’ll get the big head):

Hey, I’ve got an idea. Let’s cry and pray and not actually do anything as a nation about access to weaponry until the next time a score of children are slaughtered, at which time we can cry and pray and not actually do anything as a nation about access to weaponry. Think that’ll work?

We’ve been down this road before josef — now it seems like we go down it every 3 months. Each slaying is always “The Worst!!” until the next one.

Maybe this time, this slaying can be the catalyst for some sort of dialogue that leads to change.
================

frog: i am so not believing that…especially with the boa…

You.Are.So.Baaad! [But I like that about you!] :)

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:07 pm

Jay,
I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:07 pm

FROG

I understand what you are saying. But teachers have no greater insight into these things than any others in society. Our “training” is not to spot and identify potential murderers, but learning problems. We, too, are just as heir to the denial as the rest.

Given what our boys went through before we got them, we found ourselves constantly on the watch for how that was going to affect them. But, then as now, just what were we looking for? For all the “attention” we gave it, we didn’t know then and we don’t know now.

indigo

December 15th, 2012
12:08 pm

The NRA exists solely to protect the huge profits of the gun industry.

The gun industry is one of The Republican Party’s main corporate sponsors.

For one of them, profits are all that really matter. For the other, getting elected and re-elected is all that really matters.

For both of them, it’s painfully and shamefully clear human lives mean little or nothing.

Only in America.

The other half of your brain.

December 15th, 2012
12:08 pm

Jay

December 15th, 2012
12:03 pm

“What’s the difference if the magazine holds 5 rounds or 15, the killer will just carry more magazines and who would be there to stop him?

Fine, then there will be no problem if we ban the 15-round mag, correct? You know, since they’re all the same and all? The people who buy the high-capacity magazines certainly believe there’s a difference, correct?

” Jay, I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t own a handgun so I don’t worry about the amount of rounds in a magazine.”

Furthermore, there is little evidence that long prison terms have any deterrent effect on crimes of violence. To the degree they are useful in crime control, it’s by keeping violent people off the streets for a long time.

” Wrong, It keeps the repeat offenders off the streets. We have weak laws in our country and when anyone tries to make them tougher certain people cry a river.

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:08 pm

“As great as philanthropy and volunteering is, MONEY keeps the lights on and the water flowing.”

And until we make diagnosis and treatment more “normal”, and convince the money handlers that mental health is as important as gun rights, we’ll continue to see the decline of mental health services offered. We have to do better at publicity with mental health and what’s available as well as increasing the availability of mental health services. People need to know it’s okay to get help and recommend someone for help, and we need clearer processes for getting it.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
12:09 pm

Banning certain firearms, ammunition or accessories will accomplish nothing in preventing an act of mass murder. All it will do is create underground illegal trafficing of these items.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
12:09 pm

a 9mm or sig is a much more proficient weapon for hitting a greater number of targets at a faster rate then a bulky AR-15

The common man, using an AR-15, especially if they’re using it for a genocide, is not concerned about proficiency.

They mostly want to injure/hurt/maim/kill as many as they can in as short of a time frame as they can.

The other half of your brain.

December 15th, 2012
12:10 pm

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:07 pm

Jay,
I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?

Yep, and as soon as you do that, guess who will keep theirs, DUH!

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:10 pm

josef 12:07
my point, exactly.

td

December 15th, 2012
12:11 pm

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
11:46 am

Holding the gun owners responsible for the use of their guns is another thing we should do. Responsible people that own guns should keep them locked up and out of the reach of other people, even their own family members.

Then you are totally ignoring the intent of the 2nd Amendment. “Keep and BEAR arms”.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:11 pm

DDR

And I will say to you what I said to Jay…I had rather not, but I have to agree…

Jay

December 15th, 2012
12:11 pm

td, the “hundred shots” estimate came from a witness who heard the shooting, so I don’t put much weight into it. We’ll have to wait for a cartridge count to get an accurate number.

As to the fact that assault weapons “look intimidating,” that’s exactly the point I was trying to make. That intimidating look is precisely why these nuts find them so appealing. It plays to the fantasy they lay out in their addled minds, and I see no reason why we need to accomodate them.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:11 pm

“I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?”

I can’t speak for Jay, but for myself? All that would do is give people a false sense of security…right up to the moment another such atrocity occurs.

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:12 pm

“Given what our boys went through before we got them, we found ourselves constantly on the watch for how that was going to affect them. But, then as now, just what were we looking for? For all the “attention” we gave it, we didn’t know then and we don’t know now.”

josef: I too, have been in and am still in that position. Sadly, as much as I’ve studied, I still don’t know what signs to look for in my boys. I’m not sure there ever will be any clearly definable standards for saying what might constitute an emotional or mental problem that warrants professional attention.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:12 pm

the other half of your brain
Yep, and as soon as you do that, guess who will keep theirs, DUH!
………………………………………………………………
the police and the military…

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
12:13 pm

We live in arguably the freest society in history. The enormous upside AND down are part of that bargain. We all know it and will carry on and try to live and love as best we can.

As I walk through this wicked world
Searchin’ for light in the darkness of insanity.
I ask myself is all hope lost?
Is there only pain and hatred and misery?

And each time i feel like this inside,
There’s one thing i wanna know:
What’s so funny ’bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
What’s so funny ’bout peace love & understanding?

And as I walked on through troubled times
My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
So where are the strong
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony.

Because each time i feel it slippin’ away, just makes me wanna cry.
What’s so funny ’bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
What’s so funny ’bout peace love & understanding?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1RBu04p7FI

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:14 pm

“That intimidating look is precisely why these nuts find them so appealing. It plays to the fantasy they lay out in their addled minds, and I see no reason why we need to accomodate them.”

My thoughts exactly. I believe, even though there isn’t any research I’ve read to back me up, that to some extent those bent on this kind of atrocity are emboldened by the fact that they have that firepower in their hands. No reasonable citizen needs automatic weapons in their home or for hunting or sport. Those weapons designed for military use need to be kept solely in the hands of those trained to use them in combat.

The other half of your brain.

December 15th, 2012
12:14 pm

This subject will be discussed till Hell freezes over and another nut will do something horrendous again.

I don’t think anyone on this planet has an answer.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:15 pm

RF

If we had any advice to offer from our own experience, it would be what Unmentionable said when we got them, “our job and blessing is to give them the most stable and most loving environment we can manage. That’s all we can do. That, and pray an awful lot.”

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
12:17 pm

the police and the military…along with the drug cartels, other criminals and those who obtain them illegally including sociopaths.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
12:17 pm

““I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?”

I have all kinds of problems with that, beginning with the fact that we already have tens of millions of such weapons in private hands.

The other half of your brain.

December 15th, 2012
12:17 pm

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:12 pm

the other half of your brain
Yep, and as soon as you do that, guess who will keep theirs, DUH!
………………………………………………………………
the police and the military… and the killers. crooks and nut jobs.

Damn I love fixing typos.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:18 pm

Doggone/Ga
I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?”

I can’t speak for Jay, but for myself? All that would do is give people a false sense of security…right up to the moment another such atrocity occurs.
……………………………………….
exactly.
one stick of dynamite equals 100 automatic rifles…

Sagegirl

December 15th, 2012
12:18 pm

Guns are ingrained in our DNA. They are who we are. Since the US began, a gun was at our side. From the destruction of the American Indian, the Spanish-American War, Daniel Boone, The Civil War, the two cowboys dueling in the street, so on and so forth, from then till now. A gun was always involved. And guns have evolved from muskets to semi-automatics. They’ve gotten faster and the holes they leave wider. They’re there when situations happen. A drive-by, an unhappy divorce, road rage, a shopping mall, a theatre, and always at a school. The saying “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is only partially true. People could not kill people without easy access to guns. I only hope someone doesn’t dress up in black and continue with what this troubled, young man has started. I’m so heart broken over this. Something has got to stop it.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
12:18 pm

the other half

Consider it as lessons learned from living life. I’ve found myself caught in the crossfire of jackasses with guns before. There’s nothing worse than hearing the sound of a shotgun blast and then feeling shot raining down on you with nowhere to go. After going through training at the academy and then going through active shooter training, I’ve come to realize that the best defense against these kinds of things is knowing how to get out of the situation as fast as possible. In most cases, these incidents are only minutes long in duration. The actions you take in the first seconds can determine whether you make it out alive or not.

————————-

DDR

Life teaches these lessons over and over. At some point, you have to take out the notepad and pay attention.

Jess

December 15th, 2012
12:19 pm

A rare, and fairly balanced article by Jay. I do feel, however, to blame the higher rate of deaths by gun in the south on the region or lack of gun control laws is misleading. Demographics play a large role in these statistics.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:19 pm

DDR, JAY

In reference to what we were saying about when to discuss this…Unmentionable said, and I agree, that this probably IS the time. But while we’re doing it, we need to be asking ourselves WHY we don’t discuss it when it has not hit us in the face and we’re naturally in knee-jerk mode?

td

December 15th, 2012
12:19 pm

ay

December 15th, 2012
12:11 pm

” That intimidating look is precisely why these nuts find them so appealing. It plays to the fantasy they lay out in their addled minds, and I see no reason why we need to accomodate them.”

Please tell me I am wrong in making the assumption that you believe if we take away the appeal factor then these crimes will stop and that is your reasoning to ban assult looking guns?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:20 pm

“one stick of dynamite equals 100 automatic rifles…”

And then there are chemicals. Thinking Japanese tunnel attack here.

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:20 pm

“our job and blessing is to give them the most stable and most loving environment we can manage. That’s all we can do. That, and pray an awful lot.”

which is all any of us can do. If there is a disease in our society right now, it’s in the number of “families” that simply don’t even try to understand that very basic principle. And any parent or guardian can do that, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or number of parents in the home.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:21 pm

the other half of your brain
December 15th, 2012
12:12 pm

the other half of your brain
Yep, and as soon as you do that, guess who will keep theirs, DUH!
………………………………………………………………
the police and the military… and the killers. crooks and nut jobs.

Damn I love fixing typos.
……………………………….
and your distrust of the police will not stop them from working
overtime to confiscate the guns under a ban….

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:23 pm

“Please tell me I am wrong in making the assumption that you believe if we take away the appeal factor then these crimes will stop and that is your reasoning to ban assult looking guns?”

Quit trying to incite yet another useless argument, get your head out of your backside, and think for a minute. Nothing will stop these kinds of crimes, but it is reasonable to think that maybe we could cut down on some of the encouragement. There’s no way to know for sure, but it is at least worth considering. And answer this: why does any normal citizen truly NEED to have automatic weapons in their home?

Jay

December 15th, 2012
12:23 pm

“The common man, using an AR-15, especially if they’re using it for a genocide, is not concerned about proficiency.

They mostly want to injure/hurt/maim/kill as many as they can in as short of a time frame as they can.

And its intimidating look instills confidence and swagger in those who are at heart cowards. Only the most feeble of cowards murders a classroom of kindergarteners.

jconservative

December 15th, 2012
12:24 pm

Couple of thoughts on the subject.

This from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources: “If you were born on or after January 1, 1961, you need to complete a hunter education course prior to purchasing a hunting license.”

This from the majority opinion of Justice Scalia in the Heller case. One might want to read this closely.

“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to castdoubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.”

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:24 pm

safe rooms in houses, gated communities, all protections not
afforded to schoolchildren…they are not worth the price….

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:25 pm

“we need to be asking ourselves WHY we don’t discuss it when it has not hit us in the face and we’re naturally in knee-jerk mode?”

history tends to show that in about a week, maybe two, we’ll have moved on and let it go yet again with nothing of any substance having been done.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
12:25 pm

scout: :Banning certain firearms, ammunition or accessories will accomplish nothing in preventing an act of mass murder.

You know, why don’t we become radical and try it for a few decades? Let’s put some data behind that statement to see what would or would not happen….

All it will do is create underground illegal trafficing of these items.

We already have those — AND we already have these killings. Let’s try Door #2 and do something different this time around………

indigo

December 15th, 2012
12:26 pm

Doggone/GA – 12:11

Only the Military and police are allowed to have guns in Japan.

How many times have you read, or saw on TV, about all the many mass shootings in Japan?

Or Canada.

Or Britan.

Or France.

Or Germany.

Or Spain

Or Portugal.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:26 pm

“And answer this: why does any normal citizen truly NEED to have automatic weapons in their home?”

And as along as they are law abiding their reasons are no ones business but their own.

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
12:26 pm

Then you are totally ignoring the intent of the 2nd Amendment. “Keep and BEAR arms”.

___

No, I’m not, I was just not clear in what I said. They should keep them locked and out of the hands of other people, unless they are bareing them themselves.
The point I was making was the owners should keep control of their own guns.

Road Scholar

December 15th, 2012
12:26 pm

The constitution was written when there was only single shot weapons available. Get rid of automatic weapons.

Maybe we should hang the body of those who do this from the highest tree so the birds can pick them apart. Burying them and the family saying they’re sorry just doesn’t do it for me. He killed defenseless children and teachers. We should also seek out our neighbors so we know what makes them tick. A parents love can be blinding.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:27 pm

In addition to the fire drill and tornado drill, we have now added intruder alert and bomb threat to the list of what we prepare our children for at school, placing the latter two in the children’s minds into the category of accident and act of G-d. How long, oh, L-rd?

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
12:29 pm

WHY we don’t discuss it when it has not hit us in the face and we’re naturally in knee-jerk mode?

______

Because no one thinks about it until it hits us in the face.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:29 pm

when a coward kills you, you are just as dead as when killed by a brave soldier.
oh, I know, point a gun at everyone and those that run can be executed for
cowardice or throw them in a pond with a rock tied around their neck and
if they float they are cowards and we can kill them then…

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:30 pm

frog: this school had locked doors and visitors had to be buzzed in. No gates or saferooms would have helped once he was in the building. Closing and locking classroom doors is one deterrent, and I’ve done just that since Columbine, even when told not to by administrators. How do you make schools, which by their very nature require multiple points of entry and exit, impervious to malicious entry? Gated communities are a farce that give us the perception of security when anyone who really wants to can find any number of entry points. Fences and gates might slow them down, but what can we do beyond making schools look like prisons with fences, guard towers, etc. Believe me, as a parent and teachers I’ve often thought that might be a very good idea, even if impractical.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
12:31 pm

Worth re-posting from downstairs:

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2012
8:08 am

As for the 800# gorilla in the room?

Hey, I’ve got an idea. Let’s cry and pray and not actually do anything as a nation about access to weaponry until the next time a score of children are slaughtered, at which time we can cry and pray and not actually do anything as a nation about access to weaponry.

Think that’ll work?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:33 pm

“How many times have you read, or saw on TV, about all the many mass shootings in Japan?”

If it makes you fell safer…you always have the choice to move to any of those countries.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:33 pm

OSCAR

“Because no one thinks about it until it hits us in the face.”

But that still begs the question, why?

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
12:33 pm

Military shoulder fired assault weapons such as your antiquated M16’s,and your M4’s have a selector for both semi automatic and automatic fire. The AR15’s that are commonly sold by gun dealers are only capable of semi-automatic fire and are miscalled assault weapons. Fully automatic weapons can only be obtained by private citizens with special licensing permits. Ban semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms and a vast underground of weapons with both semi-auto and full auto capability will emerge that will become a compounding nightmare.

td

December 15th, 2012
12:34 pm

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:23 pm

Quit trying to incite yet another useless argument, get your head out of your backside, and think for a minute. Nothing will stop these kinds of crimes, but it is reasonable to think that maybe we could cut down on some of the encouragement. There’s no way to know for sure, but it is at least worth considering. And answer this: why does any normal citizen truly NEED to have automatic weapons in their home?

Talk about pulling your head out of your backside. The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M-16 and thus is SEMI-AUTOMATIC. It is already ILLEGAL for a “normal citizen” to have a fully automatic weapon in their home, The normal citizen with an AR-15 can only have a max 15 round clip. This is the same as a person with a 9mm, sig, 40 cal, 22 or any other semi auto pistols allowed. The only difference is that with a scope I can hit a target up to 600 yards away with a AR-15 where I can only hit a target at about 50 feet with the pistols.

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:34 pm

I’m with DDR- how about we actually renew the assault weapons ban and see what happens? How about we empower local authorities to confiscate them and offer incentives for surrendering them and see what happens? How about we just try something, anything besides making excuses for people having firearms designed for trained military use in their dadgum nightstand drawers? What would this kid have done in Conn. if his mom hadn’t had all those guns in her house?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:36 pm

“Fences and gates might slow them down, but what can we do beyond making schools look like prisons with fences, guard towers, etc. Believe me, as a parent and teachers I’ve often thought that might be a very good idea, even if impractical”

And always the problem with that is: the harder it is to get IN, the harder it is to get OUT. And that might be an important point in the case of fire or natural disaster

[...] school security debated after Connecticut shootingLos Angeles TimesThe Guardian (blog) -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -Detroit Free Pressall 3,907 news articles » This entry was posted in [...]

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:36 pm

“The normal citizen with an AR-15 can only have a max 15 round clip. This is the same as a person with a 9mm, sig, 40 cal, 22 or any other semi auto pistols allowed. The only difference is that with a scope I can hit a target up to 600 yards away with a AR-15 where I can only hit a target at about 50 feet with the pistols,”

Answer my question. Why does any citizen in this country NEED that kind of firepower in their homes? You don’t need semiautomatic weapons for hunting, you don’t need them for protection, you don’t need them for showing off or compensating for some lack of masculine confidence. Why then?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:38 pm

“Why does any citizen in this country NEED that kind of firepower in their homes?”

If they are law abiding…it’s none of OUR business why they want one.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
12:40 pm

If they are law abiding…it’s none of OUR business why they want one.

A point that I agree with. It’s a shame that you have to keep making it.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:41 pm

RF 12:30
it’s only impractical because of money. Bulletproof glass would have stopped
this guy…one step not far enough.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:42 pm

“It’s a shame that you have to keep making it”

It is indeed.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:42 pm

Okay, let’s get real for a moment. There are posters here who have shown how intimate they are with the weaponry and the relative destruction this, that or the other firearm can cause. Some of them are also those who periodically go through meltdown here. Do we report them?

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
12:42 pm

Because no one thinks about it until it hits us in the face.”

But that still begs the question, why?

_________

Someone needs to keep the matter in the public eye. After Reagan and Brady were shot, I believe it was Brady or his family that kept the issue alive until the Brady bill was passed.

There has to be someone to come forward and push the issue or nothing will get done.

Are you up for a new mission in life.? You could be the one.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:43 pm

Just ban all ammunition and ban its manufacture worldwide. keep your guns.

Does it scare the beejeebus out of anyone else the kooks on this blog that have guns? Looking at td, recon, indigo, etc.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
12:45 pm

td: It is already ILLEGAL for a “normal citizen” to have a fully automatic weapon in their home

You made that statement last night. It was wrong then, and it is still wrong today. See Recon’s post @ 12:33 to understand why that’s wrong. A “normal citizen” can get a fully automatic weapon if they obtain the necessary permits and such. There’s a lot of available research on the internet to explain the how’s and such.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:45 pm

“Bulletproof glass would have stopped this guy…one step not far enough.”

I might have slowed him down, but “bullet proof glass” isn’t, not really. And such glass would also slow down any legitimate attempt to get in, such as that of first responders. And during possible other disasters. As I said earlier, beware unintended consequences.

drac natloz

December 15th, 2012
12:45 pm

Come on people.
This is the planet we live on – for better or worse.
We have been killing each other for centuries, in the name of religion, race, belief, or just plain madness.
Whether by hand, sword, gun, terrorism, starvation or disease, intentional or otherwise, it will always be so.
As unpalatable and shocking as this may sound, its part of the reality of so called human existence. As much as we like to think of ourselves as civilized and humane in this day and age, the truth shows otherwise.
I have worked in mental health for over thirty five years, and have only seen services cut, amidst endless bureaucratic talkfests spruiking what needs to be done to treat people with problems.
The human race is disfunctional, period.
Banning high capacity gun magazines would be as effective as pissing on a forest firestorm.

AU Liberal in ATL

December 15th, 2012
12:45 pm

Apparently this is who we are. We might as well get used to it, because it’s not going to change. I know of no political solution, no medical solution, no psychological solution and we undoubtedly don’t have the motivation, the guts or the good sense to find a practical solution. I don’t know that there is a practical solution. I do know this, as long as the alleged “right” to bear arms supercedes the right to be safe, this is how we will live….and die. Some of us will be lucky enough to personally escape the carnage, some will not. Good luck.

Corey

December 15th, 2012
12:45 pm

1) We require peole to prove they understand traffic rules and the proper way to operate an automobile before issuing a drivers license. Shouldn’t we require this for people licensed to possess and carry a firearm?

2) How about a mental health clinic in every neighborhood, especially inner city neighborhoods? The amount of neuroses I encounter daily in the inner city is epidemic. I’m sure it also pervades suburbia, but suburbia can afford window dressing.

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
12:46 pm

The best weapon for home protection is a 12 guage pump shotgun.

I don’t think anyone needs a semi with 15 rounds – that is likely to jam after the first shot.

And a small 38 six shot revolver that can be carried outside the home is better than a semi.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:46 pm

If I hear one more idiot say this is the fault of God not being allowed in our schools I may blow.

Where was God yesterday while those poor kids were being blown away?

Dunwoodian

December 15th, 2012
12:46 pm

AP is reporting the Bushmaster 223 was found inside the school along with the two pistols. This information was provided by a law enforcement officer you only divulged it on the condition of anonymity. We will see if this turns out to be true or not.

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:46 pm

“If they are law abiding…it’s none of OUR business why they want one.”

It becomes our business when those citizens stop being law abiding and use those very weapons to kill innocent people. Ask the families of those killed how they feel about it being none of our business. I suspect they’d tell you it just became our business yet again.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
12:47 pm

If they are law abiding…it’s none of OUR business why they want one.

Count me in the agreed column!!

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
12:47 pm

Just ban all ammunition and ban its manufacture worldwide. keep your guns.

Many gun owners already make their own ammunition.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:48 pm

Brosephus made the best point for protection. Be aware of your surroundings.
The whole purpose of guards and warning devices is awareness. Shields
are for protection. Schoolchildren should be provided with as many shields
as we can erect. Not some political bs about rapid fire guns.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
12:49 pm

Its laughable that a left wing loon would lecture us on gun control. The secular progressives are the most responsible for this. They are the one’s who want GOD out of schools and promote repulsive lifestyles as if its the norm. One you blogs quoted a question that asked why this kind of thing didn’t happen 20,30, or 40 years ago. Its because we had a moral society where human life and traditional values stood out… This is the type of country the left wants. The folks that vote for democrats/aclu have made you beds. Instead of spewing non-sense about gun control your world view is what we have to live with…..

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:49 pm

OSCAR

A legitimate question, and the answer is no, not really. I, too, prefer to push it to the subconscious.

THE CAT
“Does it scare the beejeebus out of anyone else the kooks on this blog that have guns?”

Not calling names. but yes.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:50 pm

Kamchak-maybe so but i imagine most people have no clue or do not make their ammunition.
So ban gunpowder. what is another use for gun powder or bullets?

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:50 pm

Charter schools may have more protection.

Ison12

December 15th, 2012
12:50 pm

In addition, gun laws are more lax here in the South and guns themselves are more numerous. Under the NRA theory, that ought to produce a more civil, less violent society. The data say otherwise

Have guns will travel across international and state borders.

To date, there is no successful therapy for the treatment of sociopaths. Their ability to manipulate (charm) knows no bounds just as their violent tendencies know no bounds.

Warehousing the mentally ill is a violation of civil liberties.

Other than securing our children’s safety via trained and armed personnel, there is no solution.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
12:50 pm

Its funny how this kind of thing always happened in blue states……

td

December 15th, 2012
12:50 pm

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:36 pm

“Answer my question. Why does any citizen in this country NEED that kind of firepower in their homes? You don’t need semiautomatic weapons for hunting, you don’t need them for protection, you don’t need them for showing off or compensating for some lack of masculine confidence. Why then?”

Very simple reason because I believe the same as our founding fathers believed and the reason they developed a Constitutional right for us to own and carry guns.

“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:51 pm

Christian Conservative-where was your god yesterday?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:51 pm

“It becomes our business when those citizens stop being law abiding and use those very weapons to kill innocent people”

But people who do that are, by definition, NOT law abiding. Law abiding people do not need to justify to you OR me WHY they want what they want. Just as I do not need to justify to someone who is afraid of dogs WHY I have them.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
12:51 pm

RF,

Collectors buy such firearms along with target shooters that obtain them as a harmless hobby. Those types of law abiding citizens should not be disallowed their enjoyment. The unfortunate mass murder of yesterday all the more horrific because of children who became victims have rightfully caused the outrage and this discourse. Keep in mind these types of mass killings account for less than 1% of crimes utilizing firearms. The other 99+% are typically caused by handguns, which could easily be double action single shot revolvers. Banning AR15’s with 15 to 20 round magazines won’t prevent much.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
12:51 pm

I was proud of the President in his humanity and words yesterday.

I will do what I do, cry some, and then heal myself with music…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBoeY0AAec

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
12:52 pm

Ison12:

If you dig deeper into that data it will show you that its mostly gang violence…. Not law abiding citizens…

RF

December 15th, 2012
12:52 pm

Oscar: my dad worked in maintenance on second shift, often in very rough neighborhoods. He carried a fully registered, legal .22 pistol. I asked him once why something so small. He said anything bigger would be harder to get out of a holster and in most cases no more useful in close contact. He said it wasn’t about the number of bullets or size of the gun, it was about being able to accurately use it. He said it was stupid to think that larger magazines and popular style would give him any better ability to defend himself. He thinks people carrying anything bigger than a six-shot revolver are idiots who depend on the gun to do their thinking.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:52 pm

Who here is a member of a militia? Didn’t think so.

Oscar

December 15th, 2012
12:52 pm

Warehousing the mentally ill is a violation of civil liberties.

_____

Not if they are found to constitute a danger to themselves or others.

Tundra Dude

December 15th, 2012
12:53 pm

Boiling Frog wrote:
I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?

“Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:54 pm

I am trying to understand why anyone needs a gun unless you shoot your supper. Let’s have a true discussion. convince me doggone why you need a gun.

NickC

December 15th, 2012
12:55 pm

I would like to suggest to any would be mass shooter seeking notoriety that they choose HSBC executives as your target rather than small children or holiday shoppers. Killing drug cartel and Al Queda supporters will not only get you notoriety but you’ll be seen as a hero to many rather than a pathetic, bed-wetter as is the case with these other mass gunmen.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
12:56 pm

RF: People need to know it’s okay to get help and recommend someone for help, and we need clearer processes for getting it.

True – - but mental health costs MEGA BUCKS. The insurance costs alone are staggering. My friend has a child who is schizoid — her insurance,(she’s a gubmint employee and they have some of the best), only covers her & her dependents for a certain amount per year. AFTER that amount it comes out of her own pocket until the next year rolls around.

Problem with that is that the MEDS alone break her. Her sons meds cost upwards to $2K per month. We haven’t even factored in the costs of couselling/pyschiatric help for her child; or if her child needs to be institutionalized or hospitalized for stabilization, etc.

A good indicator of the costs of Mental Health Care is the fact that it’s not covered in the Obamacare package.

================

josef: we need to be asking ourselves WHY we don’t discuss it when it has not hit us in the face and we’re naturally in knee-jerk mode?”

RF: history tends to show that in about a week, maybe two, we’ll have moved on and let it go yet again with nothing of any substance having been done

I think also it could be the fact that we, as humans, are “hard wired”, if you will to disassociate our selves from some things in order to maintain our sanity.

We all know that there are criminal elements/dangers outside of our doors, yet we go outside anyway. We keep our eyes open, but we don’t let the fear cripple us, or at least some of us.

===========================
jcon: This from the majority opinion of Justice Scalia in the Heller case. One might want to read this closely.

I think there may be another challenge to the 2nd Ammendment soon — don’t know how far it’ll get us, but we’ll see.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:56 pm

“convince me doggone why you need a gun.”

I don’t have to. I am a law abiding citizen. It’s none of your business.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
12:56 pm

the cat:

He has been cast out of schools by people just like you. When we had prayer in schools and taught children the importance of living a moral life we didn’t have these kind of problems. Just as I stated earlier. This is the type of society the democrat party/aclu wants for America. Those of us who think its repulsive must live with it…

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:57 pm

FROG

“Charter schools may have more protection.”

Trouble maker… :-)

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
12:58 pm

I am trying to understand why anyone needs a gun unless you shoot your supper.

For the same reason people have golf clubs, bowling balls, curling stones etc.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
12:58 pm

tundra dude
Boiling Frog wrote:
I have no problems with banning ALL guns. How about you?

“Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.” ~ Thomas Jefferson
……………………..
plowing for the gun makers is not my thing…

Pizzaman

December 15th, 2012
12:58 pm

It can’t, and won’t, be said enough: There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for any one, other than the military, to possess combat weapons. Combat weapons are designed to kill people, not for hunting or self defence. Anyone thinking otherwise is wrong. Period. The Second Amendment doesn’t protect such crap. And no amount of posturing by the nra or any other pro gun folk will prove me wrong. It’s time for them to take responsibility. The nra and it’s policies are solely responsible for yesterday and all the “other” yesterday’s.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:58 pm

“When we had prayer in schools and taught children the importance of living a moral life we didn’t have these kind of problems”

Just like that Amish school where the kids were attacked. Yep, having God in school SURE kept THEM from being attacked. Yes, sirree

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
12:59 pm

So if I reading you lefties right. You don’t think the constitution gives us the right to own guns.

josef

December 15th, 2012
12:59 pm

DDR

“I think also it could be the fact that we, as humans, are “hard wired”, if you will to disassociate our selves from some things in order to maintain our sanity.”

I think you’re right.

Corey

December 15th, 2012
1:00 pm

@Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
12:38 pm

Don’t you know they are preparing for that imagined coming war with the government? If they could own an F-16, F-22, or an F-35, a B-1, an Abrams tank, a Howitzer or a Patriot missle what would stop them? Persons like them will push and push just to make that imagined war come to fruition. Think right wing evangelicals pushing for armegeddon to come to Israel/Palestine. No difference.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:00 pm

Oh please. when is the last time 20 kids were killed by a golf club, bowling ball.

doggone-you are a coward if you cannot defend why you think you need a gun.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:00 pm

“There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for any one, other than the military, to possess combat weapons”

And handguns are not combat weapons.

td

December 15th, 2012
1:01 pm

the cat

December 15th, 2012
12:54 pm

I am trying to understand why anyone needs a gun unless you shoot your supper. Let’s have a true discussion. convince me doggone why you need a gun.

Because I do not want people like you coming to power and telling me that I have to tell you if I have a gun or not. It is a Constitutional right for me to keep and bear a fire arm and our founding fathers said the main reason is to stop tyranny by the government. You see when the elected knows that all their constituents are well armed then they are less likely to take away my rights to keep their power, money and control.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:01 pm

DOGGONE

@ 12:58

Your mouth to G-d’s ears.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:01 pm

tell that to the parents of the kids slain yesterday that handguns are not combat weapons

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:02 pm

“doggone-you are a coward if you cannot defend why you think you need a gun”

Nope. I don’t have to defend anything to you. Not why I have dogs, not why I have cars, not why I have my ears pierced. It’s none of your business.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:02 pm

Doggone/GA:

Your missing the point… Its society as a whole… You fruits on the left will never understand…. Society is rotting from the core and its exactly what fruits like you want…. Look at the violence Hollywood promotes along with video games that simulate the very tragedy that happened yesterday. The democrat party has been bought and paid for by Satan… Unfortunately there’s still millions of sheep that don’t understand yet….

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:02 pm

Jay

Can you please ask the IT guys to give us an ignore button???? Geez….

Its laughable that a left wing loon would lecture us on gun control. The secular progressives are the most responsible for this. They are the one’s who want GOD out of schools and promote repulsive lifestyles as if its the norm. One you blogs quoted a question that asked why this kind of thing didn’t happen 20,30, or 40 years ago. Its because we had a moral society where human life and traditional values stood out…

Sounds like somebody else needs a history lesson today…

Feb. 14, 2008: A 27-year-old man goes on a rampage at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, shooting 21 people, killing five and later himself. University police report that the suspect, a former student, had stopped taking medication and had been acting “somewhat erratic.”

Feb. 12, 2008: In Oxnard, Calif., a 14-year-old shoots a 15-year-old classmate, who later dies of his injuries. Law enforcement cites “bad blood” between the teens.

Feb. 11, 2008: In Memphis, a 19-year-old senior is shot in his school’s gym by a 17-year-old sophomore, following a feud that started off campus earlier in the week; after the shooting, the suspect hands his gun to a coach, saying, “It’s over now.”

Feb. 8, 2008: A nursing student shoots two women and then herself in a classroom at Louisiana Technical College, outside Baton Rouge.

Feb. 7, 2008: In Portsmouth, Ohio, a small community near the Kentucky border, a man shoots his estranged wife at the Notre Dame Elementary School.

Feb. 4, 2008: In Memphis’s Hamilton High School, a 16-year-old student is shot in the leg during an argument with another student over music.

[...]

March 21, 2005: A 16-year-old student shoots and kills five schoolmates, a teacher, and an unarmed guard at Red Lake High School on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota before taking his own life.

[...]

May 21, 1998: Two teenagers are killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opens fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents.

May 19, 1998: Three days before his graduation, an 18-year-old honor student opens fire at a high school in Fayetteville, Tenn., killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend.

[...]

Aug. 15, 1996: A graduate student studying engineering at San Diego State University shoots and kills three professors while he defends his thesis.

Feb. 2, 1996: Two students and one teacher are killed and another is wounded when a 14-year-old student in Moses Lake, Wash., opens fire on his algebra class.

[...]

Nov. 26, 1985: A high school student in Washington State dies after shooting herself the previous day. Police say the female student earlier shot and killed two 14-year-old boys, one of them her former boyfriend.

[...]

Dec. 30, 1974: In Olean, N.Y., Anthony Barbaro, a 17-year-old Regents scholar armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several “battle plans” for his attack on the school.

[...]

Aug. 1, 1966: Charles Whitman climbs atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31 during a 96-minute rampage.

Notice that timeline includes 6 incidents within a 10 day period. Religion or lack thereof has nothing to do with this. It’s also not because of some recent breakdown in moral values, hence the incidents in the 60s and 70s. People, in this country, are allowed to practice their own belief system without fear of government repression. They are not allowed to oppress others with their beliefs.

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:02 pm

@td 12:50

Quit with the NRA talking points and think. Then try to answer my question.

Why does anyone NEED that kind of firepower in the home?

And don’t throw out the gun collectors. They can have them, but if they’re only collecting them, I doubt they keep them loaded in the nightstand. We can meet the intent of the law and the founding fathers without large clips and semi-automatic weapons. I’m not sure I think it’s okay for those to even be available to collectors.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:02 pm

Thanks Josef

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:03 pm

Why is the left not up in arms over cars? Or alcohol and drugs? They kill more people than guns…

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:03 pm

“Its society as a whole”

Have you stopped to consider that “society as a whole” includes YOU?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:03 pm

Oh please. when is the last time 20 kids were killed by a golf club, bowling ball.

Of course they haven’t, but my point is that I go to the range for the same reason another goes to the golf course, bowling alley, ice rink.

I am a law abiding citizen, and don’t have to justify my reasons to you.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:03 pm

td-it scares the crap out of me that a deranged sounding person like you have access to guns. you truly think the government is going to come knock on your door and do you in? you are delusional.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:04 pm

Nothing will pass congress so our President will have to act by himself as usual. I was cleaning my guns I bought after the collapse to give them away to family for Christmas. I bought plenty of ammo too but will keep that.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:04 pm

Its funny how this kind of thing always happened in blue states……

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_University_of_Alabama_in_Huntsville_shooting

It’s funny when people expose their lack of knowledge or inability to use google.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:04 pm

RF:

For protection and hunting… Its an easy answer….

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
1:05 pm

Without the ’stand your ground law’, anyone attacked by an unarmed
assailant is required to retreat if possible so guns have very limited use
legally. Chunk them and get a ball bat.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:05 pm

“Why does anyone NEED that kind of firepower in the home”

If they are law abiding citizens, it’s none of your business WHY they have them. They aren’t required to justify their enthusiasms to YOU.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
1:06 pm

The firearms used yesterday were not combat weapons they were murder weapons. The children and staff were unarmed victims of a deranged killer not by deranged weapons combat or otherwise.

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:07 pm

Christian conservative (once again acting like anything BUT a christian): who’s out there buying the video games and attending the violent movies? Just as many of your political persuasion I’ll wager. That makes them as much “fruits” as anyone else.

Got anything intelligent to add or is this the level of discussion from you today?

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:07 pm

Doggone/GA:

Absolutly! But as I stated I have no choice but to live by the rules of the left. They control 2/3’s of gubmint and have been slowly chipping away at a normal society….. I live as a law abiding citizen and raise my children to have morals and respect…..

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:07 pm

This is not a left-right, red state-blue state issue at its core.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:08 pm

Doggone @ 12:58

I couldn’t have stated it any better.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:08 pm

no one here has provided a reason other than the chest pounding it is my right!

if you want to go to a shooting range get an airsoft gun. you don’t need a semi-automatic.

P Michael Campaigns

December 15th, 2012
1:09 pm

guns do not kill but bullets sure can sign WH petition to make ammo safe and secure and pls rt http://wh.gov/Rvaq

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:09 pm

RF:

Its certainly not a true Christian! Evil lurks around every corner….. Trying to lure the weak… Just look at the democrat party and the way they booed GOD….

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:09 pm

“But as I stated I have no choice but to live by the rules of the left”

I am a “lefty”, you may not realize that.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:09 pm

Speaking of the President, he impressed me with his address to our nation.

td

December 15th, 2012
1:09 pm

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:02 pm

@td 12:50

Quit with the NRA talking points and think. Then try to answer my question.

Why does anyone NEED that kind of firepower in the home?

To stop the government from thinking they can create laws to take my other Constitutionally protected rights away from me. This is the same reasoning that our founders raised the keeping guns to a Constitutionally protected level. Without the fear of reprisal from the governed the politicians will take our liberties.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:10 pm

I would not be surprised if elementary schools hire one armed security official after this one.The number one job of government is to try to keep people safe so they have to act.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:10 pm

on another note-got a call from Ricky Santorium this morning.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:10 pm

Ron

December 15th, 2012
1:11 pm

Indigo, why do you not include all of the countries of the world rather than just a few that meet your standards? If you were to take out the murders that are committed in Chicago, Detroit, New York and Los Angeles, our tate would be comparable to the aggregate of those countries (all socialist) you mentioned. If our punishments were as severe as those countries, our numbers would also fall dramatically.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:11 pm

“you don’t need a semi-automatic.”

It’s not YOUR decision what law abiding citizens do or don’t “need”

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:12 pm

@ Doggone and CC: again, there is valid reason to debate the availability of large clips and semi-automatic weapons in the general populace. And Doggone it IS my problem when I don’t feel safe in a movie theater or even in my classroom becuase of so many nuts having them. I don’t argue anyone’s right to self defense or hunting or any other gun related sport. But nothing anyone can say to defend owning those guns is going to convince me that they have the unmitigated right to it. You can own guns for self-defense without needing a 15 round clip in a semi-auto gun. That doesn’t make you any safer or any better at hunting. I don’t care about the collectors- I care about how many nutjobs either can buy them or take them from mommy’s gun cabinet and use them to kill. There is no justification for that, and simply saying “it’s none of our business” isn’t cutting it anymore.

td

December 15th, 2012
1:13 pm

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:03 pm

td-it scares the crap out of me that a deranged sounding person like you have access to guns. you truly think the government is going to come knock on your door and do you in? you are delusional.

No, I do not think the government is going to come to my door to do me in because they know me and 100 million more liberty loving Americans would not put up with them doing it.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:13 pm

I wonder how many listened to this tripe by far left hero and Obama supporter Harry Belafonte… This type of talk is driving people to arm themselves…

http://nation.foxnews.com/harry-belafonte/2012/12/13/harry-belafonte-obama-arrest-entitlement-reformers

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

Not going to get rid of guns.
Not going to psychoanalyze.
Not going to protect the children.
Not going to get the truth from media
Not going to get complete protection from God.
The Devil is winning but at least he is conservative.
…..except when it comes to shoes.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

“If our punishments were as severe as those countries, our numbers would also fall dramatically”

Don’t be so sure of that. Our mindset is different. As I related yesterday, I once told a European friend that they sent their misfits, criminals and anti-establishment types HERE, to get rid of them. Then WHY would they expect this country to be conformist?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

td: To stop the government from thinking they can create laws to take my other Constitutionally protected rights away from me.

You do realize that the government possesses enough hardware on it’s on to basically render your personal stash to dust with the push of one button, right? I seriously doubt the government, which is made up of Americans who have the same rights as you, are seriously worried about the number of weapons you have at home.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

What did rick have to say the cat?

Coming to take your guns?

Inject God into the argument?

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

RF-total agreement.

Intellectual Ninja

December 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

Indigo…

… your logic is deeply flawed and ignores the much larger problem.

In Switzerland and other CIVILIZED countries where gun ownership per capita is roughly the same as the United States, they don’t have these issues.

So explain THAT using your “feelings” about guns, as opposed to logic.

The truth is, there is something deeply wrong with American culture.

These things did not happen 30, 40, 50 years ago, back when gun laws were far less strict. So WHY are they happening NOW?

THAT is the question, Indigo… not your knee-jerk reaction to take away all guns. Which we know only leaves guns in the hands of the criminals.

Let me use another analogy for you: How’s that War on Drugs going? The law abiding citizens don’t use ‘em, but for the people who want illicit drugs, they can ALWAYS find that for which they are looking.

You ban guns and you do not end any of these problems as you see them, you only deprive the law-abiding citizens of this country of THEIR rights, simply because you don’t agree with it… kind of like how so many deprive others of marriage… the principle is the same, and it’s all wrong.

Instead of approaching the problem with feeling, approach it with logic, and ask the right questions.

WHY in this country is a film rated R if people in the film say f–k too much or get naked or show people simulating sex, yet a film can be GRAPHICALLY violent and get a PG13 rating?

WHY do we celebrate rap artists who glorify violence, murder, the culture of crime drug-use, and violence against women?

WHY do we allow our children to play Call of Duty or Dead Space or Resident Evil and pretend like we’re not doing them and their still-forming brains irreparable harm?

WHY have we as a society lost the stigma of divorce and fathers running out on their families? People used to be ashamed of getting divorced. Fathers used to be thought of as dead-beats if they abandoned their children… but no more.

WHY are we so afraid to stand up to the people who equivocate about good and evil, who keep telling us the world is nothing but grey, that looking at it in black and white is stupid and simplistic. There IS evil. There IS good. It’s time we tell those people to shut the hell up, crawl back into the philosophical holes they crawled out of, and leave us alone.

WHY are we so afraid to JUDGE? If we see something that’s messed-up, why do we shut our mouths? If the world is a village, why aren’t we hip-checking our fellow villagers?

We’ve become so afraid of being seen as judgmental on issues where we shouldn’t judge (like gay marriage, for example) that we’ve let it creep over into the areas where we SHOULD judge.

You think, Indigo, banning guns fixes all of these problems?

That’s just 1st grade thinking. Time to be an adult. Time to ask the right questions.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:15 pm

“But nothing anyone can say to defend owning those guns is going to convince me that they have the unmitigated right to it.”

False argument, since no one has said “they” have an “unmitigated right to it” And it’s not the fault of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS that YOU don’t feel safe.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
1:16 pm

C.Conservative: Its because we had a moral society where human life and traditional values stood out…

So, in your fantasy world these events never happened huh:

The Valentine’s Day Massacre
Albert Fish
Maria and Delfina Gonzales
Belle Geddess
Marie Hilley
Lizzie Borden
Elizabeth Short

And on and on…….

What do all these cases/people have in common? All of their crimes (by or against them), happened BEFORE prayer was taken outta schools….

Duh!

Looneytoonsindville

December 15th, 2012
1:16 pm

If guns are banned, only criminals will have guns. This is the truth. Adam Lanza couldn’t obtain a gun legally (laws prevented it) so he had to steal them. Now the megalomaniacal Obama followers want to usurp our constitutional rights based on a crisis (Saul Alinsky’s rules for radicals at work) that had little to do with guns and much to do with criminal behavior by an individual.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:16 pm

if you want to go to a shooting range get an airsoft gun. you don’t need a semi-automatic.

I am a law abiding citizen and you don’t have the authority to define what it is that I “don’t need.”

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:16 pm

“To stop the government from thinking they can create laws to take my other Constitutionally protected rights away from me.”

OH my, the stupid factor just went up again. One….more….time, td: GET OFF THE NRA WEBSITE AND THINK. You don’t seriously think you need a semi-auto weapon with large clip capacity to protect yourself from the big, bad guvment, do you?

And you still haven’t answered my question and you won’t be able to, because there’s simply NO reason anyone NEEDS that kind of firepower in the home, period.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:17 pm

Ricky had a a live person telling me all about him. when i asked her who she was talking about she stuttered through explaining he had run for president, had lost and was now calling to tell me that dumb black guy in the white house was taking all our rights away and had to be stopped. i could help stop him by sending a worthy donation. they hung up when i started laughing.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:19 pm

Looneytoonsindville:

They will never admit it but you are so correct. Obama and his minions want this country radically changed so that they will have more control. The sad thing is that most dems simply vote dem for freebies….. I don’t think most hold the same values they just want free stuff.. Its sad… Like making a deal with the devil…. But unfortunately we all must pay….

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:19 pm

“because there’s simply NO reason anyone NEEDS that kind of firepower in the home, period”

And there’s no NEED for law abiding citizens to justify their enthusiasms to YOU

td

December 15th, 2012
1:19 pm

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:12 pm

“. I don’t argue anyone’s right to self defense or hunting or any other gun related sport.”

You are missing the whole point of the intent of the 2nd Amendment. It is not for people to be able to hunt or sport but it is a deterrent and a protection placed into the Constitution to protect all of our other rights. Until you accept this as a fact then you will not understand the importance of guns.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:20 pm

I see the ODS brigade is showing up in force now… Let me go ahead and get my flight simulator started up so that I can get clearance to depart and avoid walking through fecal matter…

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:20 pm

doggone and kamchak-why so defensive? we just are asking for one itty bitty reason why you need a big ole gun.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:20 pm

” I live as a law abiding citizen and raise my children to have morals and respect”

You cons broke your moral compass and show no respect to our President.

Like VP Biden said, show us or zip it.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:21 pm

“we just are asking for one itty bitty reason why you need a big ole gun.”

And you’re getting one itty bitty answer: it’s none of your business

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:21 pm

DebbieDoRight – A Do Right Woman:

Comparing this to yesterdays tragedy… Apples and oranges sweetie.. But take Elizabeth Smart for instance. She has become a wonderful Christian woman and a role model for women… You lefty’s simple don’t see the big picture…..

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
1:21 pm

I don’t feel safe in a movie theater or even in my classroom becuase of so many nuts having them.

Actually comparatively few nuts have them. In fact less than 1% are “nuts”. The remaining 99+% are healthy minded law abiding citizens who harm no one. You’re much safer in your classroom or your favorite movie theater than you are driving to get to them.

Tundra Dude

December 15th, 2012
1:22 pm

“When we had prayer in schools and taught children the importance of living a moral life we didn’t have these kind of problems”

Strange, in the former E. Germany, about half the citizens describe themselves as atheists……
These mass shootings were /are extremely rare in my country (of birth).
Had one in ‘02, an expelled student killed 12 teachers.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:23 pm

doggone and kamchak-why so defensive? we just are asking for one itty bitty reason why you need a big ole gun.

Why so defensive?

We’ve been asking you — why do we have to justify our enthusiasms to you?

Ron

December 15th, 2012
1:24 pm

RF, as a teacher, do you not believe you could have stopped this killing if you had been armed?

Jack ®

December 15th, 2012
1:24 pm

What needs to be outlawed is the garbage produced by the entertainment industry. Everyone knows children are impressionable and most of the deadly mischief comes from copycat individuals who take their cues from the media where violence and sex is a common comodity.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:25 pm

While I do not agree totally with everything in this thread from Jay, for once he has articulated some “reasonableness” on the subject:

Here are my thoughts:

1) Regardless of whether a child is murdered in this fashion or killed by a drunk driver out on bond from his 10th DUI arrest, the impact on the parents and others is incomprehensible to me. My heart and prayers go out to them. If I had the power I would make every gun AND every evil person on this earth inert. Mutual exclusivity would mean problem solved !

2) The training that Jay mentions (while good for law abiding citizens) would do NOTHING to prevent the type of incident that just happened. In fact, it could make it worse in that the person intent on committing such acts would have been through this training making his actions even more horribly efficient.

3) The number of firearms laws/regulations on the books is already overwhelming. Jay makes good points in that regard. Unfortunately, there comes a time when all has been done legally and we must look to other areas ………… in my opinion that includes a much higher rate of forced medical incarceration for those who are prone to violent acts. In addition, it includes a change in our culture which is a generational thing.

An example …………. I believe the stats show that 50,000+ are killed each year on our highways with approximately 50% of that involving drunk drivers.

a) Do we need to pass more laws re: speeding/DUI or simply enforce the ones we have?
b) How many thousands and thousands of lives lost (let alone serious injuries) could be curtailed every year if each new car in the U.S. had a computer chip that allowed a maximum speed of 55 mph (except emergency vehicles) ?

I submit that the American people at some point have said we have done all we can do.

4) As I have often said, we hold the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments to the Constitution so sacred that we allow our courts over mere technicalities to often release vicious people back into the community to rape and murder again.

I do not believe the Bill of Rights is part of a “sliding scale”. The 2nd Amendment is no less sacred than the others and the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled to that effect.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
1:25 pm

My understanding of the SCOTUS decisions is that the States can limit
the types of weapons that can be possessed but the Federal government
cannot due to the [state] militia thing in the Constitution which can be amended.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:26 pm

That is hilarious the cat.

I would crack up too after having a little fun with the con kook.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:26 pm

“What needs to be outlawed is the garbage produced by the entertainment industry. Everyone knows children are impressionable ”

What are parents for?

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:26 pm

DOGGONE

: As I related yesterday, I once told a European friend that they sent their misfits, criminals and anti-establishment types HERE, to get rid of them. Then WHY would they expect this country to be conformist?”

Word.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:27 pm

…do you not believe you could have stopped this killing if you had been armed?

Geez, not this crap again. :roll:

Reagan and Brady were shot while being protected by one of the best armed and best trained security details on the planet.

What leads you to believe that a teacher could do any better?

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:28 pm

“but it is a deterrent and a protection placed into the Constitution to protect all of our other rights.”

And again, protecting your rights doesn’t require that level of firepower.

Doggone: sorry, but that’s still not an acceptable excuse. When the rights of one to have the guns becomes a problem for protecting the rights of others to be alive in the next moment, I think it becomes a problem we have to discuss and deal with. Those twenty kids’ rights are null and void now because you think none of our business. I happen to think it is, and you can keep on harping and it won’t change my mind…not one itty bitty bit. When innocent people keep dying because we think it’s none of our business, we are sadly excusing more innocent deaths to come. And that is wrong.

Mike

December 15th, 2012
1:28 pm

It’s the idiot person behind the gun, no legislation would ever stop this

td

December 15th, 2012
1:29 pm

RF is a teacher and does not understand the meaning of the 2nd Amendment? He/She should lose their teaching certificate and I sure hope ho/she is not teaching my children.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:29 pm

More people die each year of aids but society accepts homosexual behavior and drug use…. Why are libs not up in arms about this???

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
1:30 pm

To sum up my thoughts regardless of your viewpoints it’s just plain horribly sad that this topic has to be discussed today.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:31 pm

RON
‘RF, as a teacher, do you not believe you could have stopped this killing if you had been armed?”

I know you addressed that to RF, but as a teacher myself, to answer your question. No. I could just as easily have been a victim.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:31 pm

“When the rights of one to have the guns becomes a problem for protecting the rights of others to be alive in the next moment,”

Restricting the rights of law abiding citizens will do NOTHING to protect the rights of other to be alive in the next moment. It’s not law abiding citizens who are a danger to other citizens.

weetamoe

December 15th, 2012
1:31 pm

Michigan union goons have threatened the young daughter of Michigan’s republican governor. The *plate glass* musings of the journolist crowd disturbed by the emerging TEA party groups are evidenced in the continual threats of violence coming from the left. The governor and his family are most likely protected by the usual security afforded prominent politicians at the state level, just as the secret service is required to provide protection to such important Obama administration people as Valerie Jarrett. In the interest of equal protection, all of the more equal than others in public life–including the entertainment industry-should dismiss/relinquish all private protection such as bodyguards or security companies. Then we might have a *fair* discussion about firearms.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
1:31 pm

CC: For protection and hunting… Its an easy answer…

My god girl, what are you hunting!?! :wtf:

CC: “But as I stated I have no choice but to live by the rules of the left”

You can always move to China……..or better yet! You can move to a country that is steeped in religion, somewhere you’d feel comforted by your ideals and have liked minded people thinking as you do…………..Iran is looking pretty good to you now huh? :roll:

SoCoBro: You do realize that the government possesses enough hardware on it’s on to basically render your personal stash to dust with the push of one button, right?

Hey! Stop putting LOGIC into the equation!!! I HATE when you do that! Messes up the whole, “Gobmint WANTS my guns — And I AIn’t Gonna Give IT To ‘Em” defense. Duh!

electrician

December 15th, 2012
1:32 pm

RF get off your self righetous gun control talking points and pay attention, i am a member of the NRA and I own a lot of guns, I also have a concealed carry license,Kamchaks answer is not what you want to hear, so try my answer, I dont care one bit about what you thoughts on gun owenrship are and never will, nor will ever feel i need to explain my choices to you or anyone like you. Its the same argument over and over

nick

December 15th, 2012
1:32 pm

It’s not a simple problem, so I don’t expect a simple solution. The gun and anti-gun lobbies offer up sound bites of simple solutions (i.e. more weapons or no weapons) that won’t effectively solve the problem.

Ideally..

- We’d have an effective way to evaluate people’s judgement and mental health before allowing them to purchase a gun. (This would be beyond waiting periods, and background checks.)

- We’d have an effective way to reevaluate the judgement and mental health of people who own guns on an ongoing basis.

- We’d have severe penalties for use of weapons in crimes.

- We’d have more severe penalties for the theft of weapons and use of those in crimes.

- We’d have a way for the damages and costs caused by misused guns to be born by gun owners.

This is by no means a comprehensive list, but when I look at these items, it seems like we have models in industry and our daily lives we can draw upon.

For example, vehicle ownership in most places requires the owner and an operator to carry liability insurance for any damages caused by the driver or vehicle.

If you own a large SUV which can cause more damage in an accident (as opposed to a small scooter), you’ll pay more in liability insurance.

If you have an alarm system, live in a safer neighborhood, or keep your car in a secured garage then you pay less in comprehensive insurance.

If you drive less, you pay less in liability and collision insurance; also if you drive in safer and less congested areas you pay less.

If you have a less perfect driving record, you will also pay more in insurance.

If you are caught speeding while drinking, the penalties are far more severe than just speeding itself.

You must pass a driving test before obtaining a license, and to keep the license you have to continue having a good record; and more recently, as you get older and your sight or responsiveness may become impaired you may have to take additional driving tests on a more frequent basis to keep your license.

By all studies I can find online, these approaches to vehicle safety are believed to be effective. They’re costly and inconvenient to drivers, but as a society we’ve become accustomed to this.

What other models could be borrowed from?

I am a gun owner, and while it’s inconvenient and costly to me, I do think it’s reasonable that society ask me to be tested frequently, that I pay for insurance based on the risk associated with me, how and where I store my weapons, the types of weapons I own, if I have a CCW permit, and the type and quantity of ammunition I keep.

Any thoughts on this? Again, not a comprehensive approach, but no simple solution seems to exist either.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:33 pm

DEL
@ 1:30

Amen.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:33 pm

“More people die each year of aids but society accepts homosexual behavior and drug use”

More people die each year because of aids in Africa and it is heterosexual behavior that is the precursor. Aids is not a “homosexual” disease.

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:33 pm

@Ron 1:24. Absolutely not. He came in guns blazing with a heck of a lot more firepower than any armed teacher would have had. I can’t see walking around my classroom with a loaded gun as being anything other than an accident or worse waiting to happen. The last thing you need is a shootout in a classroom.

C

December 15th, 2012
1:34 pm

The problem is no one considers the question of why deeply enough.
1st level why: he had guns
2nd level why: he was mentally ill
3rd level why: this is where analsis needs to occur yet no one gets there. The question is: Why at this stage in our history are so many people mentally ill and of that subset of people, how do some get to the point of being capable of such atrocity? I would propose that any real solution needs to take a close look at the erosion of morality and selfishness in our society and the speed at which our society is changing via technology, etc. I just dont think the human mind is designed to evolve that quickly or to be constantly overloaded to the degree that it is. And changes seem to happen exponentially faster and faster. I think some minds break down under the pressures of the modern society we have created. Then when the breakdown occurs, there is no caring community or even nuclear family for the broken to find help, support, or love. Forget global this and global that, we dont even know the neighbor next doors name much less possess the ability to identify if he is struggling.

A trigger can be pulled as fast on one of the millions of handguns or even hunting guns out there as it can on an assault rifle. It makes no difference, and its foolish to think that shortsighted kneejerk reactions have any impact on the true problem. Laws these days seem to be reactions to incidents rather than solutions to root problems. I guess root problems cant be articulated in a sentence or less before our attention is diverted to one of the other 5 things vying for our attention. Look deeper people, this is a societal problem that WE ALL have a hand in. Its about our priorities, not what laws are on the books. The government cant fix this for you.

Not to be too cliche, but the masses were too busy being entertained to bother putting out the fires in Rome.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:34 pm

I think Parents in the country will demand action after this one so our President will issue a executive order of some kind. Banning guns is not an option.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:34 pm

“I could just as easily have been a victim”

And quite likely the FIRST victim

indigo

December 15th, 2012
1:34 pm

Doggone/GA – 12:33

I will stay in America and work for change.

Unlike you, I don’t have a “cut and run” personality.

Corey

December 15th, 2012
1:34 pm

@Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
12:59 pm
“So if I reading you lefties right. You don’t think the constitution gives us the right to own guns.”

I see you take us as serious as we take you wanting to see armeggdon in Israel to pave the way for the “retun of Jesus”. No CC, we are aware that that horse has long since left the barn, and we are acutely aware that persons such as yourself twist a reasonalbe argument for responsilbe gun ownership and keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them as an infringement on your constitutional rights. The second amendment is at best a horribly, grammaticly written few lines. Some people read those few lines and totally overlook “a well regulated malitia.” Think summer/autum 1787 Philadelphia, sweltering heat, no air conditioning, flies galore and men of goodwill debating and going back and forth at each other wanting to put thier fingerprints on and ingrain their ideals in a governing document for a newly founded nation. It is said that some of these men who had been good friends became sworn enemies after the constitution was written. There is no way a legal document could be written today that would define a certain group of people as a three-fifth person. I often wonder if some of the constitution was more or less a protest against the Britts as well as a blue print for self governance. Signed, one of us proud lefties

the cat

December 15th, 2012
1:35 pm

Reasons to have a gun:

1. My daddy was a collector and I inherited them.

2. I have to shoot my supper.

3. There are rabid raccoons in my trailer park.

4. My penis is small.

5. My boobs are small.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:35 pm

I dont care one bit about what you thoughts on gun owenrship are and never will…

And that is where you and I part ways.

While I feel it is my right as a law abiding citizen to own a legal gun, I do not object to having this discussion.

td

December 15th, 2012
1:37 pm

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:29 pm

More people die each year of aids but society accepts homosexual behavior and drug use…. Why are libs not up in arms about this???

Add this to your talking points hypocrisy of the progressive left.

There are more abortions performed in one week then their have ever been children killed in schools by guns. We should surely then outlaw abortion before we even start to consider banning guns.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:37 pm

“I will stay in America and work for change”

And I will stay and fight the kind of changes you want.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
1:37 pm

Doggone/GA:

It is in this country… cdc.gov….

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:38 pm

“RF is a teacher and does not understand the meaning of the 2nd Amendment? He/She should lose their teaching certificate and I sure hope ho/she is not teaching my children.”

Listen, moron, I know the second amendment perfectly well. It does NOT specify type of weapon, and you can’t use it as the NRA blanket for everything. You have the right to bear arms, and the rest of the population has the right to be safe from you using them on innocent citizens. Our right to them doesn’t mean we have the right to any kind, and you know it. Restricting the type of guns available doesn’t impact the 2nd amendment one bit. Anything else, or are character attacks all you have left?

indigo

December 15th, 2012
1:38 pm

Ron – 1:11

I listed those countries because they are all Western democracies.

They are NOT all socialists.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:39 pm

“There are more abortions performed in one week then their have ever been children killed in schools by guns”

Are you also going to outlaw abortions intiated by God? That’s what a miscarriage is, a spontaneous abortion. Man was made in God’s image, right? So if God does abortions..why shouldn’t we also?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:41 pm

Reasons to have a gun:

6. A ground hog is devastating my garden, particularly my green beans.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:41 pm

DDR

I get a kick out of the idea that my personal guns at home are any match to the weaponry available to the US government. The greatest obstacle to overreaching government that was provided by our founders was not our ability to bear arms. The fact that our government is made up of citizens, and not a ruling class, is a better weapon than anything a person here can ever own. The 2nd Amendment is necessary IF all other avenues fail.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:42 pm

DOGGONE

“And quite likely the FIRST victim”

Precisely.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:43 pm

RF,

td is a blind partisan that is inflicted with the genetic defect of conservatism.

Not to be taken seriously.

Quite pitiful like the rest of the cons.

Your argument has merit and it is government’s job to keep the people safe.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
1:43 pm

Ninja, in Switzerland most of those who keep weapons at home first undergo military training in the use of those weapons. You can own a semi-auto assault weapon only with a special license. The sale of ammunition is closely monitored, as are permits to carry. Such permits require a valid need to carry and a demonstration of the expertise required. You can’t transport loaded weapons in cars, etc.

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:43 pm

“I dont care one bit about what you thoughts on gun owenrship are and never will, nor will ever feel i need to explain my choices to you or anyone like you”

And I don’t care one bit that you do own guns. That’s not the point. You are fully allowed to own them, but can you give me one reason why basically anyone can buy a semi-automatic weapon with large clips? Why would you, as a responsible gun owner NEED that? Fine that you want it, but do you really need it?

The answer is NO, and I seem to be upsetting a few here today who don’t seem to want to face the fact that allowing the right to own and use a gun does NOT justify that level of firepower in any gun owner’s hand. I’m still waiting for some plausible explanation, but I still don’t have one.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:44 pm

“I get a kick out of the idea that my personal guns at home are any match to the weaponry available to the US government”

And even when that amendment was passed, the government had cannons that were WAY more desctructive than the single shot rifles and hand guns available.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:44 pm

“Reagan and Brady were shot while being protected by one of the best armed and best trained security details on the planet.

What leads you to believe that a teacher could do any better?”

Comments:

1) You left out Special Agent Tim McCarthy.

2) Most of the time these animals “cower out” at the slightest provocation. They murder and then they commit suicide as they do not want to be taken alive.

If you can shoot and kill them great; if you can shoot and wound them great; if you can shoot but miss and they decide to commit suicide great and if you just point a weapon at them and they decide to commit suicide great!

The point is …………….. to not have the option to do ANYTHING BUT DIE is unconsionable.

3) Most police departments (i.e., Virginia Tech Police) used to have a policy regarding active shooters at malls, schools, etc. that the first officers on scene should CONTAIN the scene and wait for SWAT, etc. to arrive before going in.

THAT HAS CHANGED ! Departments are now telling the first officers on scene to go in and try to do SOMETHING !

Why? Because the mere “sight” of an officer might be enough to cause them to commit suicide and therefore the carnage will stop.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:45 pm

“6. A ground hog is devastating my garden, particularly my green beans.”

I know this guy that has experience with this critter on a golf course.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:46 pm

“but can you give me one reason why basically anyone can buy a semi-automatic weapon with large clips”

Because none of us are answerable to YOU. It’s none of your business.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:46 pm

“Ninja, in Switzerland most of those who keep weapons at home first undergo military training in the use of those weapons.”

You don’t want “nuts” having any type of training so to require it to have/carry a weapon is counterproductive.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:47 pm

Brosephus and Doggone:

It’s interesting that we basically agree on this one.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:48 pm

I know this guy that has experience with this critter on a golf course.

Carl Spackler?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:49 pm

“It’s interesting that we basically agree on this one”

And it’s sad how little some people understand that one of the prices of the freedoms we have is that we are not obligated to satisfy THEIR curiosity just because they think we should.

indigo

December 15th, 2012
1:50 pm

Intellectual – 1:14

1. While it’s true these kind of incidents are much more common than in the past, politicians and pundits would and will argue for years as to the causes. Meanwhile, how many more innocents will die?

2. I do not, and did not say, I wanted to ban guns to solve the war on drugs, PG and R rated movie problems, violence spewing rap artists, children playing violent vidoe games, our high divorce rates, deadbeat fathers, or any of the other social problems you mentioned.

“You think, Indigo, banning guns fixes all of these problems”?

You think, Intellectual, you could gain a little reading comprehinsion?

I want to ban guns to stop as many senseless murders as possible.

There, is that easy enough for you to understand?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:51 pm

P.S. re: my 1:44

There mere sight of a gun (carried by a police officer, teacher or anyone else) might be enough to cause the shooter to commit suicide.

RF

December 15th, 2012
1:51 pm

“Because none of us are answerable to YOU. It’s none of your business.”

And again, it IS my business and everyone else’s in this country, when our safety and freedom and sense of security are threatened repeatedly by someone using such unnecessary firepower to kill. Granted they’d do it anyway, but if we can at least reduce the body count, we’ve accomplished something. When your right to own one becomes a threat to my right to live without fear, then we do have a problem and you do become answerable to me. Show me how your right to constitutionaly own one trumps my right to feeling safe and secure in public. You can’t.

I’m done with this discussion and going shopping. Have at it and keep saying it’s none of our business. I bet if some of your kin were victims of one of these shootings, you’d think about what I’m saying at least. I lost a sister to gun violence, so it’s an issue that is close to home for me.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:51 pm

SCOUT
@ 1:47

I haven’t said too much on it, but you can add me to that list….

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:52 pm

Doggone:

“And it’s sad how little some people understand that one of the prices of the freedoms we have is that we are not obligated to satisfy THEIR curiosity just because they think we should.”

Yes, I agree and I would wager that most of those folks are liberals ………….. just sayin’ ………..

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
1:53 pm

CC: Comparing this to yesterdays tragedy… and oranges sweetie.. But take Elizabeth Smart for instance. She has become a wonderful Christian woman and a role model for women… You lefty’s simple don’t see the big picture…..

First off CC — do you have A.D.D.? Do you find yourself easily distracted during conversations and/or while doing simple chores by bright shiny objects? Have you, or anyone you’ve known, been subjected to high levels of carbon monoxide in the past 5 years?

The reason why i ask this is because, excuse my french, you’re the one who brought up the fact that none of these atrocities happened BEFORE “we” took God out of our lives via the school, government etc!!!.

I merely pointed out that, oh yeah they not only happened, but they happened FREQUENTLY. And now you come back with “Apples and Oranges and Elizabeth SMart? WTF is the matter with you?

Ok……………big sigh here…………….I want to make sure you;re allright, even though you think you are doing fine, i think there may be a problem. Please do these three things:

1) Look around where you sitting at now and see if your windows are opened or closed.
2) If your windows are CLOSED open them.
3) Get the hell outta your house, I think you may have a gas leak thats causing you to hallucinate.

God Bless.
====================

td: Because I do not want people like you coming to power and telling me that I have to tell you if I have a gun or not. It is a Constitutional right for me to keep and bear a fire arm and our founding fathers said the main reason is to stop tyranny by the government

TD — the constitution can be adjusted and was deliberately left vague in the advent that it HAD to be adjusted to fit the needs of the Union.

So your hanging on to it is like hanging on to a thin thread — you just might fall. Sorry. :cry:

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:54 pm

josef:

I hear you.

Again ……….. here is a great synopsis on “Heller” for those who wish to read it.

http://www.lawnix.com/cases/dc-heller.html

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:54 pm

It’s interesting that we basically agree on this one.

Why is that interesting? If you actually ask people what their personal beliefs are instead of assuming or broad brush swiping, you’re likely to find that you have agreements with many people here on different subjects. It’s all in how you present your opinions.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:54 pm

“And again, it IS my business and everyone else’s in this country, when our safety and freedom and sense of security are threatened repeatedly by someone using such unnecessary firepower to kill”

and I am a law abiding citizen and am not the cause of your concerns about safety and freedom and security. Therefore, it’s none of your business what I have or why.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
1:55 pm

“Carl Spackler?”

Yup, have you tried blowing him up?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:56 pm

If you actually ask people what their personal beliefs are instead of assuming or broad brush swiping, you’re likely to find that you have agreements with many people here on different subjects.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If a frog had wings….

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:57 pm

“It’s all in how you present your opinions.”

this to someone who just said: “and I would wager that most of those folks are liberals “

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:57 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:57 pm

“TD — the constitution can be adjusted and was deliberately left vague in the advent that it HAD to be adjusted to fit the needs of the Union.”

1) Constitution is capitalized.

2) The Bill of Rights can be “amended”.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:57 pm

Doggone

Exactly!!!!

indigo

December 15th, 2012
1:57 pm

the cat – 1:35

I think number 4 is the main reason so many “right to keep and bear arms” people are so “passionate” about their guns.

After all there’s nothing like the “big iron” to make up for any, uh, you know, shortcomings.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm

Brosephus/Doggone:

It is “interesting” because most “anti-gun”/2nd Amendment people are liberals.

Just sayin’ …………. and that is interesting.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm

Kamchak

I stand rebuked…. :)

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm

Yup, have you tried blowing him up?

Nope, all it took was a single shot from a .22 rifle (lever action, not semi-automatic) when he wander into the front yard.

I felt bad afterward :sad: but I would do it again.

I lost 150′ of beans to it or it’s kin.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm

“After all there’s nothing like the “big iron” to make up for any, uh, you know, shortcomings”

yeah, because WOMEN are SO subject to that particular failing.

josef

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm

the cat

Why own guns? Well, we’ve had fresh Bambi and there’s still some in the freezer…and, no, I don’t live in the trailer park, but there is a ‘coon here abouts that best stay out if the cat window…

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
2:00 pm

Scout

Again, if you ask people their beliefs instead of assuming, you’re likely to find out that your liberal detector is in need of serious recalibration.

Just sayin’

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:00 pm

“It is “interesting” because most “anti-gun”/2nd Amendment people are liberals.”

Got proof?

Intellectual Ninja

December 15th, 2012
2:01 pm

Reading comprehension seems to be YOUR issue, Indigo, not mine.

Banning guns will NOT stop any more senseless murders or massacres. To believe so is illogical. It’s 1st grade thinking. It’s “feeling” thinking. It makes you “feel” better, but it solves nothing.

What I was telling you was to ask the RIGHT questions.

All of those things I mentioned are just small parts of the sickness that has consumed American society. Guns are tools. Tools, as Jay said, that can no more harm a fly if not picked-up by someone without the will to use them for evil.

You say “ban guns,” but address NONE of the issues that create the people with evil intentions.

Again… your thinking is surface-level, illogical, and based completely on feeling and solves, in the end, absolutely nothing.

Because as with drugs, if you bad guns, those who WANT to find them and use them for ill, WILL.

But asking people to think logically, people like you, is a waste of time. And that is also part of decay in American society.

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
2:02 pm

To the NRA and their supporters……

It could be our children next if WE don’t do

something NOW.

Is owning a gun more important than OUR CHILDREN?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:02 pm

Most of you have probably not read the entire text of “The District of Columbia v. Heller”.

Well ……………. I have ……………. :o )

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

Following are important excerpts regarding the ruling including some very “thought provoking” points from the majority opinion.

Page 6

a. RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE

“Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer to anything other than an individual right.”

Page 8

b. KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

“Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications ……………. and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search ……………. the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existance at the time of the founding.”

Page 19

c. MEANING OF THE OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to posses and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment. We look to this because it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right. The very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existance of the right and declares only that it shall not be infringed. As we said in United States vs. Cruikshank this is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existance. The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed …….. ”

Page 24

b. SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

“The phrase “security of a free state” meant “security of a free polity” not security of each of the several states.”

“There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary for the security of a free state” ……….. Third, when the able bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.”

Page 25

3. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PREFATORY CLAUSE AND OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the able bodied men was not by banning the militia but simply taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress political opponents.”

Page 26

“It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down.”

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:03 pm

The God argument is more mindless con deflecterbation that has nothing to do with this issue but works on the cons..

If the military decided to take the old medicated cons guns, they can but it is unconstitutional so it will not happen.

How can government protect it’s citizen’s from kooks killing children at school is the issue.

Focus cons.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:03 pm

“Is owning a gun more important than OUR CHILDREN?”

Law abiding gun owners are no danger to our children

sar1776

December 15th, 2012
2:04 pm

Jay…

I do not agree that this will fade from our memory. Those of us who care about our families, friends, and neighbors have a mindset that drives us to protect them from this kind of violence. We follow the law, train and are alert to the dangers around us.

At the appropriate time, we need to look at the reason this happened. Now is the time to mourn those who were lost to this senseless act and celebrate the heroism of those who died protecting these innocent children.

When we do have a discussion on the issues around gun laws, let’s make sure we include all the data. I would like to see reporting on how many lives are saved each year and how many crimes are prevented due to the legal possession of a firearm. These statistics would at least give a balance to the discussion. As with most things are a multiple views that need honest, open consideration. Emotion and political correctness need to be dismissed in this kind of discussion.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:04 pm

Got Proof?

Yes ……………. it’s called the Democrat Party.

Read their latest “platform plank” on the subject.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
2:06 pm

Reasons to have a gun:

4. My penis is small.

5. My boobs are small.

#4 is a reason to buy Extenze — Jimmy Johnson said they’re a-ok and you know he doesn’t lie — he was the coach of the Dallas Cowboys.

#5 is a reason to commit hari-kari. Small boobs are the reason for the fall of the berlin wall. The women of east berlin wanted to have access to plastic surgeons……..

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
2:07 pm

@0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm
Brosephus/Doggone:

It is “interesting” because most “anti-gun”/2nd Amendment people are liberals.

Just sayin’ …………. and that is interesting.

======================================================

you are “26″ Times more likely to be killed by a Christian, then a Muslim terrorist.
in the United States every year.

So for all you xenophobic, scared, ignorant, Christian Crusader types out there. I ask you..

Who should Americans really fear?

(1) [link to http://www.disastercenter.com
(2) [link to ask.yahoo.com]
(3) [link to en.wikipedia.org]
(4) [link to http://www.strategypage.com

JUST SAYIN’……………

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:07 pm

“it’s called the Democrat Party.”

there’s no such thing as the “Democrat” Party. When you have to lie to make your point, you have no point.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:08 pm

josef,

We feed six wild cats, a couple of possums and a raccoon.The cats sit and watch the possums and raccoon eat and they don’t bother each other.

real john

December 15th, 2012
2:09 pm

Jay:

I don’t often agree with you, but I’m 100% on this one. Your article was well thought out and well written.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:09 pm

sar1776:

“I would like to see reporting on how many lives are saved each year and how many crimes are prevented due to the legal possession of a firearm. These statistics would at least give a balance to the discussion.”

You make “THE” point that I have often pointed out to Jay on this blog. To date he has failed to do so.

He always comes up with stats on the number of people who have been murdered/accidentally killed by firearms vs. the number of justifiable homicides by a legally armed citizen. He always leaves out:

1) The number of crimes prevented because the perpetrator was “wounded” by a legally armed citizen.
2) The number of crimes prevented because the perpetrator was “shot at but missed” by a legally armed citizen.
3) The number of crimes prevented because the perpetrator had a gun “pointed” at him by a legally armed citizen.
4) The number of crimes prevented because the perpetrator “saw” a gun carried by a legally armed citizen.
5) The number of crimes prevented because the perpetrator “thought” a citizen might have a gun.

josef

December 15th, 2012
2:10 pm

sar1776

“Emotion and political correctness need to be dismissed in this kind of discussion.”

Agreed.

AND

For those of you talking about G-d and the schools…let me assure you, precious few of us involved in the education and care of our little ones don’t cross that threshold daily without a prayer in our hearts and minds…it’s just that we keep it there, where it belongs…

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
2:10 pm

@@0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
1:59 pm
Brosephus/Doggone:

It is “interesting” because most “anti-gun”/2nd Amendment people are liberals.

Just sayin’ …………. and that is interesting.

================================================

The GUN you want to have the right to OWN………

maybe the GUN that kills you.

The young man in CT KILLED his mother

WITH HER OWN GUN.

Just sayin’……………………………………

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:12 pm

Shortage of guns?……..Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED:

You left out the chance of being “killed” by a doctor in this country.

josef

December 15th, 2012
2:13 pm

getalife

No wild cats, but a few alley ones…and as for the ‘possums and ‘coons, Mustafa the al Qaaida Terrorist Cat is creating a secret cell with THEM…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:13 pm

Doggone:

Are you a “Democrat” or a Republican ?

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:14 pm

scout,

The issue is how government can keep this from happening again?

You are all over the place so try to focus on the issue.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:15 pm

josef:

II Chronicles 7:14

“If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:16 pm

josef,

I think the cats think the possum and raccoon are just weird looking cats because they don’t run away and sit a foot away from them.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:17 pm

“The issue is how government can keep this from happening again?”

It can’t totally …………. but it CAN minimize it by allowing teachers, staff and maintenance workers to carry “if” that school district wants that option.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:17 pm

“Are you a “Democrat” or a Republican ?”

It’s none of your business

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
2:17 pm

scout: 1) Constitution is capitalized.

And…..???

2) The Bill of Rights can be “amended”.

Civics 101:

How To Amend the US Constitution
Methods for Proposing and Ratifying Amendments to the Constitution

To Propose Amendments

In the U.S. Congress, both the House of Representatives and the Senate approve by a two-thirds supermajority vote, a joint resolution amending the Constitution. Amendments so approved do not require the signature of the President of the United States and are sent directly to the states for ratification.

Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. (This method has never been used.)

To Ratify Amendments

Three-fourths of the state legislatures approve it, or

Ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states approve it. This method has been used only once — to ratify the 21st Amendment — repealing Prohibition.

The Supreme Court has stated that ratification must be within “some reasonable time after the proposal.” Beginning with the 18th amendment, it has been customary for Congress to set a definite period for ratification. In the case of the 18th, 20th, 21st, and 22nd amendments, the period set was 7 years, but there has been no determination as to just how long a “reasonable time” might extend.

Of the thousands of proposals that have been made to amend the Constitution, only 33 obtained the necessary two-thirds vote in Congress. Of those 33, only 27 amendments (including the Bill of Rights) have been ratified.

Jay

December 15th, 2012
2:18 pm

Oh please, Christian Conservative. You’re arming yourself because you’re afraid of Harry Belafonte?

Man up, dude.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
2:20 pm

Jay

You know how scary those elderly singing Negros are, don’t you???

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:21 pm

“You’re arming yourself because you’re afraid of Harry Belafonte?”

/snort

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:22 pm

Gun owners should be required to take annual drug tests and periodic psychiatric evaluations at their own expense and they should be required to keep their weapons adequately secured or rendered inoperable by others without their permission. Gun owners not only have the right to bear arms, they have the responsibility to protect the innocent from misuse of their weapons..

josef

December 15th, 2012
2:23 pm

IMAM
Well, CC does, I would posit, have a legitimate fear…if Belafonte is allowed to continue, this is what we can expect, a takeover by THIS cell of Muslim terrorists…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpg-KIKD5gU

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:24 pm

Kamchak 1:56
If a frog had wings….
……………
he might be an angel..but then demons have wings too, i think..

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
2:24 pm

Harry Belafonte?

Maybe it’s revenge for being left in Kingston town.

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:25 pm

Perhaps scout CAN produce scientific studies supporting his claim at 2:17?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:26 pm

“Gun owners not only have the right to bear arms, they have the responsibility to protect the innocent from misuse of their weapons..”

I agree with this, but not with your first sentence. Some of it constitutes unreasonable searchs, guilty until proven innocent, and invasion of privacy.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
2:28 pm

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:28 pm

Harry can say outrageous things like the cons to get publicity.

Tit for tat politics.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
2:28 pm

It can’t totally …………. but it CAN minimize it by allowing teachers, staff and maintenance workers to carry “if” that school district wants that option.

Oh yeah, THAT’ll work!!

And if that teacher, janitor, et al, have a bad day and decides to commit workplace violence, then they don’t even have to worry about being stopped at the door with their guns — they’re ALLOWED to bring them inside!

Let’s go all out!! Let’s allow guns at:

**Sporting events — so that if your team looses and the guy next to you whose a fan of the opposite team crows too much about winning, you can shoot him and declare that you felt threatened by his joy.

**Church – so that if the preacher says something you don’t like during service, then BANG! Shut yer mouth you SOB!!

**Hospitals — so if your wife has a baby with skin thats a bit TOO brown; and you’re whiter than Larry Bird………..BANG!! You cheated on me!!

Yeah everyone carrying is such a goood idea!!

I wonder why they did away with that option after the West was won? :roll:

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:30 pm

Children have the right to be protected from harm when they are
required under penalty of law to be in a government building just
like judges and administrators.

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:30 pm

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:32 pm

debbie do
tennessee now allows concealed carry in bars unless the
proprietor posts ‘no guns allowed’ signs.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:33 pm

“when they are required under penalty of law to be in a government building ”

Actually…they aren’t. You have heard of home schooling, haven’t you?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 15th, 2012
2:33 pm

Well, we don’t need gun control, we need a law that makes everybody own at least one gun. I bet if those little 1st and 2nd graders was packing that crazy loon would of run when he seen them coming toward him, blasting away. And the punks in the schools that act up would thing twice if they knew the teacher had a Glock in her purse.

Besides, like my NRA always says, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. The only way to get rid of these mass killings is to get rid of people. And we know we don’t want to do that.

So all the librul weenies on here that want to outlaw guns done picked out the wrong target. Like my Hero always said before he up and died on us, “They can take my guns when they pry my cold, dead fingers off of them.”

Have a good Saturday everybody. Since it’s kinda overcast, it might be time for everybody to go to a local gun show and buy a piece or two. Good for the economy and you’ll feel alot safer on the way home. All you got to do is hold your gun up and kinda look at it while people to your left and right look at you.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:35 pm

Doggone/GA
Children are not allowed to choose home schooling.

deegee

December 15th, 2012
2:35 pm

This past year we have had at least two heart wrenching, soul searching discussions about innocent people who were slaughtered by a crazed gunman. Next year we will have at least two more. Get used to it. We aren’t ready to change anything about the way we live.

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:35 pm

Doggone,

When people ask for the privilege of toting guns around others they IMHO have to be willing to give up something of themselves as proof of their ability to be entrusted with this privilege. There are simply too many risks to other’s lives not to do so.

TM

December 15th, 2012
2:36 pm

taxpayer==
“CAR owners should be required to take annual drug tests and periodic psychiatric evaluations at their own expense and they should be required to keep their CAR adequately secured or rendered inoperable by others without their permission. CAR owners not only have the right to DRIVE, they have the responsibility to protect the innocent from misuse of their CAR..

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
2:36 pm

frog — that’s why tennessee has the worst tasting water in all of the states.

All those drunks pizzing in the open after going into the bar………..trying to show off their “guns”

oh wait, what were saying about the gun law again?

:wink:

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:37 pm

“Children are not allowed to choose home schooling”

Are you really that dumb?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:38 pm

“There are simply too many risks to other’s lives not to do so.”

Law abiding citizens are no risk to other’s lives.

GT

December 15th, 2012
2:38 pm

There is this inferiority complex among American men that goes unmentioned like the elephant in your living room. These guns bring some false security, some heathen pleasure, forced respect, that must be reinforced somewhere in our society, like the old Marlboro man making smoking look manly. Nope I seriously think these men believe there will be a revolution some day and they need to be armed. The Waffle House gang of old white men that are ready to take on this nation, or some 20 year old nut killing children. I truly hope that side doesn’t win we have enough nuts running this country already.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:38 pm

cons are scared of everything.

How to protect the children at school so this will not happen again?

I think it is a security issue not a gun law issue.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:39 pm

TM – beat me to it!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:39 pm

Debbie:

Good ! We’re in agreement on those !

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:41 pm

Doggone:

Are you a “Democrat” or a “Democratic”.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:41 pm

“How to protect the children at school so this will not happen again?”

There are some things we can do to help protect children better…but we cannot guarantee something like this will not happen again. To think so is to fool yourself into a sense of false security.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:41 pm

Doggone/GA
“Children are not allowed to choose home schooling”

Are you really that dumb?
…………………………………….
I speak as well as I type…research when….

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:42 pm

“Are you a “Democrat” or a “Democratic”.”

Are you a “Republic” or a “Republicic”

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
2:43 pm

More armed teachers is a possible real world solution. It IS possible, constitutional and rational. The only problem is that it doesn’t politically satisfy liberals.”

“That’s just pure crazy talk. You want to put a fully loaded firearm within easy reach of a classroom teacher — otherwise it wouldn’t be of much use — yet somehow keep it out of reach of the 20-something kids in that same classroom?”- Jay Bookman

You sure about that Jay??? I’m not sure that arming teachers is s solution but I wouldn’t call it a crazy idea. It might be reasonable to at least allow a teacher who wants and gets licensed to carry a firearm to have one- perhaps one that has a trigger lock if possible or that can be safely stored and only pulled in emergencies.

And before you call that poster’s idea crazy you might want to open your mind and enlighten yourself. Can’t remember who said it a while back but apparently in some parts of Israel the teachers stand guard and carry UZIs while the students load the buses. Is that crazy? Or is it needed? In any event it sure seems to work. Its called deterrence. And in the article below it sure seemed to work for these Israeli schoolchildren. I wonder why stuff like this never makes the news?

Armed Teachers stop Terrorist Attack in Israel
A dramatic story can be found here:

Two Palestinian terrorists disguised in Israel Defense Forces (IDF) uniforms entered the study hall at Makor Haim High School in Kibbutz Kfar Etzion southeast of Jerusalem.

Al-Aksa Brigades: Assassinate Fayyad Armed with guns and knives, the terrorists managed to stab several students before armed school counselors arrived and shot them dead.

“The terrorists came inside and began stabbing the students,” a defense official said.

“This could have ended much worse,” said another in Central Command. . . .

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:44 pm

Does the media not realize that by totally over-saturating the airwaves with this tragedy that they could be facilitating a “copycat” scenario ?

JKL2

December 15th, 2012
2:44 pm

Debbie- And if that teacher, janitor, et al, have a bad day and decides to commit workplace violence, then they don’t even have to worry about being stopped at the door with their guns — they’re ALLOWED to bring them inside!

Reminds me of the time I was in Iraq. They wouldn’t let me in the bank because I wasn’t carrying a loaded weapon.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:45 pm

Doggone:

I am a Republican.

Are you a “Democrat” ?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 15th, 2012
2:45 pm

. . .like the old Marlboro man making smoking look manly.

Well, not to be picky or nothing like that, but there is no old Marlboro man. They die kinda young. Just like my cousin that smoked 3 packs a day for 30 years and now has lung and brain cancer. Now he walks around spouting stuff like, “Why me?” And the answer is always, “Because you’re the one that smoked 3 packs a day for 30 years.”

Thought I’d get that one off of my chest. Carry on.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:47 pm

“Debbie- And if that teacher, janitor, et al, have a bad day and decides to commit workplace violence, then they don’t even have to worry about being stopped at the door with their guns — they’re ALLOWED to bring them inside!”

Or just sneak them in.

Geez !

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:47 pm

JKL2
Reminds me of the time I was in Iraq. They wouldn’t let me in the bank because I wasn’t carrying a loaded weapon.
………………..
i’m assuming this was a sperm bank….

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:47 pm

“Reminds me of the time I was in Iraq. They wouldn’t let me in the bank because I wasn’t carrying a loaded weapon.”

Why in the world did you not have a weapon in Iraq?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:47 pm

“Does the media not realize that by totally over-saturating the airwaves with this tragedy that they could be facilitating a “copycat” scenario ?”

It’s within the bounds of possiblity that THIS WAS a copycat crime. See the reports about the children attacked in China just the day before. And yes, it MIGHT trigger a copycat crime…but it also puts people all over the country on their guard too.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:48 pm

“Are you a “Democrat” ?”

Are you a “Republic”

TM

December 15th, 2012
2:48 pm

Armed security guards don’t stop bank robberies and armed teacher would not prevent Newtown. You have to figure out how to diagnose and segregate from society these mentally ill citizens,

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:49 pm

Tm, even though cars are not designed for the sole purpose of killing, we are required to submit ourselves to periodic evaluation in order to prove ourselves as capable of properly operating said vehicle as well as purchase an annual tag and insurance and be subjected to random checks at road blocks and all sorts of other regulations such as safe operating speeds, etc. do the equivalent with guns.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:49 pm

“XXXXX (I refuse to post his name), 20, went to a Dick’s Sporting Goods store in Danbury, Conn., on Tuesday to buy the weapon, but was turned down because he didn’t want to undergo a background check or abide by the state’s waiting period for gun sales, the officials said.”

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15926718-newtown-gunman-tried-to-buy-rifle-days-before-shooting?lite

[...]  http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/12/15/newtown-massacre-reawakens-question-of-gun-contro… Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. Published: December 15, 2012 Filed Under: Uncategorized [...]

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:50 pm

TaxPayer:

“The right to transportation shall not be infringed”.

Ah ………… don’t think that is in there.

JKL2

December 15th, 2012
2:50 pm

barking frog- i’m assuming this was a sperm bank….

Yes, fertility clinics are popular in combat zones…

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
2:50 pm

Arming teachers is just plain crazy huh Jay? The Thais and Israelis are just plain crazy. BTW the last time I heard of a group of Jewish being attacked by terrorist gunman was only last year. It was in france though. Not Israel.

In Israel, teachers and parents who serve as school aids are armed with semi-automatic firearms whenever they are on school grounds. Since the country adopted this policy in the 1970s, attacks by gunmen at Israeli schools have become non-existent.

In 2004 Thailand adopted a similar approach to ensure the safety of its schoolchildren.

On April 27, 2004, Associated Press reported, “Interior Minister Bhokin Bhalakula ordered provincial governors to give teachers licences to buy guns if they wanted to, even though it would mean bringing firearms into the classrooms when the region’s 925 schools re-opened on May 17, after two months of summer holiday.”

The report stated that though Thailand’s government was extremely hostile to gun ownership in general, it recognized that teachers ought to be in a position to safeguard themselves and their students.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/03/91528/#BP8FlPcf5r1ocGBu.99

indigo

December 15th, 2012
2:51 pm

Intellecual – 2:01

You must think I don’t know what evasivness is.

A gun ban, if enforced, would certainly stop a great many senseless GUN murders and massacers.

Discussing banning guns and issues that create people with evil intentions are two SEPERATE things and require seperate talks.

Trying to cover up the real issue here with disingenuous and non sequitur thinking won’t fool those here who can see thru your smoke and mirrors.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
2:51 pm

Look at the violence Hollywood promotes…

Any bets that this fraud hasn’t watched hundred if not thousands of hour of it?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:51 pm

TaxPayer:

P.S.

I assume you want people who might handle firearms to be properly trained on their use so as to become more proficient and efficient ?

That might have made this killer even more deadly. So how would that help ?

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
2:52 pm

Scout — Why do you think that after the “West Was Won” that open carry was NOT allowed in our society anymore?

Why do you think that afterwards they also wanted people to be registered?

Why do you think that when after a hundred of years or so of allowing people to walk around openly with their guns, that all of a sudden it was outlawed and stopped?

Just asking…………..

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
2:52 pm

If guns are outlawed only outlaws…………and government thugs……………….will have guns.
.
Ain’t gonna happen.
.
Forward Freedom!

getalife

December 15th, 2012
2:52 pm

jk,

Why in the world did you not have a weapon in a combat zone?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:52 pm

“we are required to submit ourselves to periodic evaluation in order to prove ourselves as capable of properly operating said vehicle as well as ”

I have renewed my drivers license online for the last 10 years. That hardly constitutes a “periodic evaluation”

JKL2

December 15th, 2012
2:52 pm

getlife- Why in the world did you not have a weapon in Iraq?

I was in PT’s and didn’t have it on me and the security guard wouldn’t let me in without it.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
2:52 pm

should’ve said GUN owners to be registered.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:53 pm

indigo:

“A gun ban, if enforced, would certainly stop a great many senseless GUN murders and massacers.”

One problem:

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:53 pm

JKL2
Yes, fertility clinics are popular in combat zones…
……………….
leave a little something for posterity….

indigo

December 15th, 2012
2:54 pm

degree – 2:35 “we aren’t ready to change anything”

As to strong gun regulations, the above statement is absolute true for the NRA, gun manufacturers and the Republican Party.

Profits MUST be protected and the campaign cash MUST be kept flowing.

As for lives, well, heck, people come and go, like leaves on a tree.

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:55 pm

“There are simply too many risks to other’s lives not to do so.”

Law abiding citizens are no risk to other’s lives.

Especially if they abide by laws that would further reduce the probability of innocent people being shot.

TM

December 15th, 2012
2:55 pm

Taxpayer== I have been driving over 40 years and have never been “required to submit ourselves to periodic evaluation in order to prove ourselves as capable of properly operating said vehicle” What State do you live in??

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
2:56 pm

The right of the people to keep and bear arms may be regulated.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:56 pm

Debbie:

Many states still allow “open carry” and some don’t even require a license.

For example, in Vermont you may carry a handgun openly or concealed without any type of permit.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
2:57 pm

“Especially if they abide by laws that would further reduce the probability of innocent people being shot”

And they already do.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
2:58 pm

Good Fight:

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms may be regulated.”

Just like the 1st Amendment you are correct. There can be reasonable restrictions but it cannot be total.

Thus we have “Heller” and the D.C. Government was requred to provide a mechanism for law abiding citizens to have/carry handguns.

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
2:58 pm

That online renewal is all that is deemed as necessary at this time doggone but that does not lessen it as being the mandated periodic evaluation nor does your comment address all the others mandates I mentioned.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
2:58 pm

municipalities have always regulated guns.

indigo

December 15th, 2012
2:59 pm

scout – 2:53

You left out the part about the Militia. Since nowadays, the “people” whose “right” our founders were protecting are our Military, the people are keeping and bearing arms.

If you are a full-time civilian, you are NOT part of the Militia and you do NOT have the right to “keep and bear arms” because of the 2nd Ammendment.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:00 pm

“doggone but that does not lessen it as being the mandated periodic evaluation”

Never mind that it’s NO evaluation at all. They are simply taking my word for it that I am still a good and safe driver. Where is the “evaluation” in THAT?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:00 pm

Here are state by state firearms regulations if anyone is interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
3:01 pm

Scout – you didn’t answer my question……….

Moon Mullins

December 15th, 2012
3:01 pm

The NRA would argue that this whole tragedy could have been averted if the Principal had a weapon or if one the the second graders had been carrying concealed.

“The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.” ~Albert Einstein

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
3:01 pm

And I am promoting stricter laws doggone given the obvious shortcomings with the current ones regarding loss of innocent lives from guns. You obviously take issue with that. Good for you. We shall remain in disagreement.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 15th, 2012
3:02 pm

I have been driving over 40 years and have never been “required to submit ourselves to periodic evaluation in order to prove ourselves as capable of properly operating said vehicle”

Well, if you live in GA and are 65 or over, you’ll submit yourself. None of this online stuff. I guess the reason is because most people think a 65 year old dribbles all over his shoes when he goes to the bathroom and slobbers and all that stuff. You’ll have to take a eye test every time and get the vision checked from the sides of your eyes, etc. And you won’t get more than 4 years worth of liscence before you have to submit yourself again. None of this 10 year and 6 year stuff.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
3:02 pm

I propose an armed guard with training at all elementary schools.

Jobs and security.

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2012
3:02 pm

It’s probably time to start having a serious talk about repealing the Second Amendment. Because as written (very, very poorly, and for the most cowardly of reasons, if you actually know anything about its history), you can have a SCOTUS that could potentially interpret to mean that citizens have an unfettered right to any weapon. They haven’t quite got there yet but they’re moving in that direction.

I personally think it is moronic for any government to assert that its citizens have a right to arm themselves. i think it makes far more sense to have sensible regulations on gun ownership and to treat it as a privilege rather than a right. I realize I’m in the minority on this, but I suspect my view will become a lot more reasonable sounding in the years ahead.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:03 pm

“If you are a full-time civilian, you are NOT part of the Militia and you do NOT have the right to “keep and bear arms” because of the 2nd Ammendment”

Yes, you do. There’s nothing in that amendment that REQUIRES participation in a militia. But it is the right to keep and bear arms that makes it possible to HAVE such a militia if and when it’s needed.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
3:03 pm

I know that in Florida — especially for those over a certain age, (where there are a lot of elderly drivers), every few years there are mandatory testings.

Don’t know about other states.

Look before I leap...

December 15th, 2012
3:03 pm

“Law abiding citizens are no risk to other’s lives.”

Tell that to anyone who goes hunting with Dick Cheney.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:04 pm

indigo:

And the Supreme Court in “Heller” said you are wrong. I suggest you read the entire ruling but here are some major excerpts:

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

Page 6

a. RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE

“Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right” attributed to “the people” refer to anything other than an individual right.”

Page 24

b. SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

“The phrase “security of a free state” meant “security of a free polity” not security of each of the several states.”

“There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary for the security of a free state” ……….. Third, when the
able bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.”

Page 25

3. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PREFATORY CLAUSE AND OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the able bodied men was not by
banning the militia but simply taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress
political opponents.”

Page 26

“It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might
be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down.”

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2012
3:04 pm

…should add–obviously, if we could get some kind of national consensus and regulation for sensible gun ownership regulations without doing what I’ve proposed @ 3.02, I’d be fine with that outcome.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:05 pm

“And I am promoting stricter laws doggone given the obvious shortcomings with the current ones regarding loss of innocent lives from guns. You obviously take issue with that”

I am in agreement with the principle you espouse, but not the specifics

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
3:05 pm

Doggone,

You had to take a driver,s test initially and as I said that is currently deemed to be adequate when taken in conjunction with other motor vehicle laws. You obviously are looking to pick a fight without first selecting weapons that we both agree on using.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:06 pm

stands for decibles:

“It’s probably time to start having a serious talk about repealing the Second Amendment.”

And that would be the process. Have at it.

Until then ……….. the Constitution as interpreted by the SCOTUS stands.

TM

December 15th, 2012
3:06 pm

I doubt any remembers 1996 but then again it happened in Scotland

The Dunblane school massacre occurred at Dunblane Primary School in the Scottish town of Dunblane on 13 March 1996. The gunman, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton (b. 10 May 1952), entered the school armed with four handguns, shooting and killing sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 2010 Cumbria shootings, it remains one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in the history of the United Kingdom.

Public debate subsequent to these events centred on gun-control laws, including media-driven public petitions calling for a ban on private ownership of handguns and an official enquiry, the Cullen Report. In response to this debate, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 were enacted, which effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in the United Kingdom.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:06 pm

“It’s probably time to start having a serious talk about repealing the Second Amendment”

Ok, now lets have a discussion about something that is POSSIBLE, not the impossible

indigo

December 15th, 2012
3:07 pm

Doggone/GA – 3:03

No, you don’t. UNLESS you’re part of that “well regulated Militia”.

That was the whole idea of the 2nd ammendment.

Do you really think Jefferson and Franklin would approve of all the gun murders commited today under the excuse of “right to keep and bear arms”?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:08 pm

“Tell that to anyone who goes hunting with Dick Cheney”

What makes you think Cheney was abiding by the law that day? One of the “unwritten” laws of hunting is to NOT SHOOT until you are SURE of your target.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:08 pm

indigo:

Further homework/reading assignments for your edification:

“The role of militia, also known as military service and duty, in the United States is complex and has transformed over time.[1] The term militia can be used to describe any number of groups within the United States. Primarily, these fall into:

The organized militia created by the Militia Act of 1903, which split from the 1792 Uniform Militia forces, and consist of State militia forces, notably the National Guard and the Naval Militia.[2] The National Guard however, is not to be confused with the National Guard of the United States, which is a federally recognized reserve military force, although the two are linked.

The reserve militia[3] or unorganized militia, also created by the Militia Act of 1903 which presently consist of every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who are not members of the National Guard or Naval Militia.(that is, anyone who would be eligible for a draft). Former members of the armed forces up to age 65 are also considered part of the “unorganized militia” per Sec 313 Title 32 of the US Code.[2]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:09 pm

indigo @ 3:07

Have you read that Supreme Court ruling in “Heller” yet?

It will save you a lot of typing and misinformation.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:09 pm

“You obviously are looking to pick a fight without first selecting weapons that we both agree on using”

Picking a fight? Now it’s picking a fight to point out that you are WRONG? Well, if that’s your take on it…it’s your problem, not mine.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

December 15th, 2012
3:10 pm

indigo — scout is cherry picking various passages, that aren’t being summarily connected, from that case at random. I’m guessing he probably got it off of an NRA site or a pro-guns site.

My advice is to read the whole opinion for yourself.

I’ve noticed on this blog that some people, (not scout!!! :roll: ), only like to pick out the things that validate their argument, but does not paint the entire picture, so to speak.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:11 pm

“That was the whole idea of the 2nd ammendment”

Then why isn’t it enshrined in the WORDS of the 2nd amendment? it isn’t. There is no requirement to belong to a militia in those words.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:12 pm

“Gun-control laws failed Connecticut children

Facts of crime reveal shooter violated at least 3 statutes already in place”

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:13 pm

Until then ……….. the Constitution as interpreted by the SCOTUS stands

Or until the Supreme Court addresses the issue again in another case and modifies or overturns it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:15 pm

Debbie Do:

How about “Lawnix”. Maybe that will make you happy.

“The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”

http://www.lawnix.com/cases/dc-heller.html

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:16 pm

laws do not fail children. Violation of laws were responsible. The ones regarding murder.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:18 pm

“laws do not fail children. Violation of laws were responsible. The ones regarding murder.”

And with all the best will in the world, NO law can be guaranteed to prevent a behavior…they can only codify the punisment for violating that law.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:19 pm

Good Fight:

Which is the way the system works …………. and yes there are other cases to come such as can one state refuse to recognize another state’s license.

Note: Each state must recognize another state’s driver’s license even if their state requires dirivers to be 19 but the other state only 16.

Good over Evil

December 15th, 2012
3:19 pm

Jay,
I’d like to respond to your comments about limiting handgun magazine capacities. For law abiding citizens who own and conceal carry handguns for home defense and defense outside the home, the fact is that the more bullets you can have in your magazine, the more likely it is that you will be able to protect your loved ones and yourself should the need arise. Responsible gun owners train on how to draw and use their weapon when tenths of seconds count. Fact is, even the most highly trained law enforcement officers miss their target with many rounds due to adrenaline, moving target and other obstacles. There can also be more than one perpetrator that may need to be stopped and it is well known by ballistics experts that often multiple hits are required to stop a threat. If you don’t perfectly hit the perpetrator, you will need several hits before stopping the threat. Include the fact that you will likely miss several times as well and there may be a second or third perpetrator, you can see how a 15 round capacity handgun can easily be needed to save ones life or one’s family. 5 or 10 rounds can easily come up short for a law aiding citizen with all required licenses. Why limit bullet capacity for law abiding citizens who want to exercise their right to protect themselves and their families. I don’t think that would be fair or solve the problem we all face with crazy people trying to kill the innocent.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:20 pm

Good Fight:

And you would be correct and that’s why signs at schools saying “Gun Free Zones” are ridiculous.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
3:21 pm

0311
Note: Each state must recognize another state’s driver’s license even if their state requires dirivers to be 19 but the other state only 16.
……………………………………………………….
also gun license and marriage license but they do not…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:22 pm

Doggone:

“indigo” appears to be getalife in disguise.

No rational debate can be had.

pete

December 15th, 2012
3:23 pm

Whole lots of folks still getting DUI’s. In the liberal world, they would want to get rid of cars.

It is not the gun that is killing, it is the person. Stop pandering and trying to analyze the crime, make the criminal pay for their actions.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:24 pm

Doggone, agreed. If laws prevented behaviors we would have no need for courts or prisons.

As someone posted (I believe it was Senior Digits), CT laws regarding gun control did stop the killer from buying a rifle. The laws worked to some degree.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
3:24 pm

multi shot magazines are good for people who don’t shoot well,
that is why 0311 has one….

TM

December 15th, 2012
3:24 pm

Good over Evil since it appears you need to improve your aim you can buy another gun or two and have the same number of shots with limited bullet capacity.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:25 pm

“No rational debate can be had”

It’s been my experience that rational debate is difficult with a LOT of people here

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:25 pm

“In the liberal world, they would want to get rid of cars.”

got proof?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:26 pm

barking frog:

That’s what will be interesting.

What “rationale” will the Supreme Court use to determine what each state must recognize (or not?) !

Driver’s licenses
Gun licenses
Traditional Marriage
Gay Marriage

Time will tell.

By the way, just so everyone knows based on a federal law passed about ten years ago, any “retired” local, state or federal law enforcement officer (or currently on active duty) may carry concealed in any state.

18USC926

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:27 pm

Senior Digits, bull and what ignorance. Clearly anyone in a Gun Free Zone is violating law and may be arrested. It makes it much easy to know something is wrong and to have a chance to react, like locking doors and calling 911

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
3:28 pm

Doom @ 2:50

Talk about epic wild goose chase… Why not extend the comparison of Israel and the US throughout the entire spectrum of our societies. Compare the size of the territory they have to protect vs the size of the US. Compare the number of people they have to protect vs the number of people in the US. Compare how open their society is vs how open our society is.

I’m sure that if we adopt the Israeli approach to things, Americans will love having to start clearing airport security a mile before they even reach airport property. I can see Americans falling head over heels with having automatic weapons pointed at their heads when stopped by police on the streets. Let’s bring it as the Israelis do!!!!!

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
3:28 pm

Obama got Bin Laden.
.
He’s also got (killed) over thirty little children …via his drones.
.
We should AT LEAST pee-test him.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:30 pm

“multi shot magazines are good for people who don’t shoot well,
that is why 0311 has one….”

They also can jam very easily which is why that guy the other day was only able to kill two people at that mall.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:31 pm

Good Fight:

Tell me how a “Gun Free Zone” is gun free ?

Ron

December 15th, 2012
3:31 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes…The Secret Service stopped him before anyone else could get shot. I am not saying an armed teacher could have prevented ALL of the killings but certainly could have prevented most of them.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
3:32 pm

…it’s called the Democrat Party.

Another example of intellectual laziness and a basic disrespect for words and their meanings.

And part of an overall, willfully sophist misuse of the language.

To wit – Christianity is not a religion.

There simply is no way to take such a statement as anything but what it is – specious nonsense.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:32 pm

Senior digits, what part of those 3 words do you fail to comprehend?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:33 pm

getalife

December 15th, 2012
3:34 pm

Another shooting at a Alabama hospital and they stopped a kid from blowing up his school.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
3:35 pm

0311
They also can jam very easily which is why that guy the other day was only able to kill two people at that mall.
…………………………………….
i think that is mostly because they are diffucult to keep clean. i have owned .22 and .25
but mostly for carry convenience. i prefer revolvers for multi shot.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:35 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:36 pm

barking frog:

My point is everyone gets upset with the “magazine” thing when in fact a 12 guage saw-off pump with the right shells would be much more catastrophic.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:37 pm

“Senior digits, what part of those 3 words do you fail to comprehend?”

The part where the perpetrator took those three weapons onto school property.

That meant the area wasn’t “gun free”.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
3:38 pm

Ron

If you’ve ever tried paintball, I’ll propose the ultimate test to you.

Find a paintball center. Get as many of your buddies together that you can. Arm yourself as a concealed carry person would. Get everyone else to set up an active shooter scenario without giving you a clue as to what’s going to happen or when it’s going to happen. After you complete the scenario, take a count of the number of shots the shooter got off before you reacted and the number of victims that were hit. Also take into account that, if the shooter hits you with a “kill” shot, you’re out of the scenario and unable to react at all while the shooter can then take your weapon and continue his assault.

Let us know how that experiment works out if you choose to take it on.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
3:38 pm

JamVet
And part of an overall, willfully sophist misuse of the language
……………………..
you rang?-maynard(dobie gillis).

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:39 pm

“Gun Restricted Zone” would be much more accurate.

That would mean that there are laws “restricting” guns on that property (which may or may not be obeyed).

getalife

December 15th, 2012
3:40 pm

“We should AT LEAST pee-test him.”

You cons call that freedom.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
3:41 pm

0311 3:36
I agree.

Good over Evil

December 15th, 2012
3:41 pm

TM,
Re Your comment,
“Good over Evil since it appears you need to improve your aim you can buy another gun or two and have the same number of shots with limited bullet capacity.”

I’m not looking for a fight with you. I realize you are not familiar with firearms or the realities and facts of defensive firearm tactical training. Misses happen with the VERY BEST trained law enforcement officers. Also, as mentioned, unless you hit a perpetrator in the right place (specific part of head, heart, spine) it will likely take several hits to stop the threat. Joking about my aim only makes you look uneducated about this issue. Carrying two guns is not practical obviously and not practical in the home during an episode that will usually only last seconds. It’s not like on TV.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:41 pm

“Let us know how that experiment works out if you choose to take it on”

and also remember that paint ball guns are slow compared to real firearms

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:41 pm

Senior Digits, sorry your just posting stupidity now. typical. You’re dismissed. I thought you were trying to have intelligent discourse but its obvious you can’t handle that for more than a post or two.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:42 pm

“We have established a point of entry,” Vance said, declining to elaborate. “He was not let in voluntarily. . . . [He] forced his way into the school.”

TM

December 15th, 2012
3:42 pm

Bros- in your paintball game I would rather be armed than a sitting duck regardless of the outcome.

Corbin Sharpe, Hugging my Grand Kids....

December 15th, 2012
3:43 pm

Doesn’t the Christian Bible say something about making swords into low shares?

wonder if a Glock or Sig Sauer can be made into a gardening tool? That would be way more useful to me.
—————

Corey,
I will agree to a psych exam for every current and would be gun owner

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:43 pm

Good Fight:

Which is a more accurate sign for school property:

“Gun Free Zone”

“Gun Restricted Zone”

??

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:44 pm

“I would rather be armed than a sitting duck regardless of the outcome.”

Being armed is no guarantee you won’t be a sitting duck

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
3:45 pm

Keep

Thanks for that link. I usually read Klein, but I missed both of those articles to include his original piece on that topic.

Corbin Sharpe, Hugging my Grand Kids....

December 15th, 2012
3:45 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:42 pm
“[He] forced his way into the school.”
..by a gun. He shot his way in. Without that gun, he could not have gooten in. Ban the guns is the only anwser…

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:45 pm

Senior digits, do you get on the plane or in it? Does it really make a difference?

TM

December 15th, 2012
3:47 pm

“Being armed is no guarantee you won’t be a sitting duck”

Correct but being unarmed is a guarantee.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:48 pm

Corbin Sharpe, Hugging my Grand Kids…. :

I think you meant “plow” shares but there are two verses:

1) Plowshares to Swords: “Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears.
Let the weakling say, “I am strong!” Joel 3:10

2) Swords to Plowshares: “And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” Isaiah 2:3-4

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
3:48 pm

Brosephus, someone else posted it yesterday (maybe Sooth or Stands) but it is an interesting reality check for those who spout nonsense as if they know facts.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:48 pm

TM:

Thank you !

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2012
3:48 pm

Doggone,

You have not proven me to be wrong regarding my statements. All you have proven is your desire to be right even though you are not. Of course you are free to actually prove me wrong by presenting something a little more compelling than your opinion. Have at it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:50 pm

Corbin Sharpe, Hugging my Grand Kids…. :

1) Or gone to the school bus stop.

2) The Supreme Court disagreew with you.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:51 pm

Excuse me : “disagrees”

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
3:51 pm

That kid supposingly had Aspergers.
I guarentee that he’s been drugged (government approved of course) for the last ten years of his life.
.
Under Obama-care———————–if you’ or your children have EVER been prescribed “happy” pills then…………….
good by gun rights.
.
AND………….the government goons will be able to sell the lists of all of the poor fools who have had their gun rights seized…..to the highest bidder.
.
The Progressives(neo-libs and neo-cons) are relentless in seizing and maintaining control.
And they’re scared.
.
It’s gonna get interesting.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
3:51 pm

“You have not proven me to be wrong regarding my statements”

You said that having a drivers license requires PERIODIC EVALUATION. I have been evaluated ONCE, at the age of 16. I am now 61 and have NEVER been “evaluated” again. So you were WRONG about periodic evaluation being required to maintain a driver’s license.

Period.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
3:54 pm

driver license renewals are now either inline or online.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
3:55 pm

Y’all should know better than jump in scout holes.

This debate is raging throughout our country and parents are standing up.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:57 pm

“Secretary of State Hillary Clinton won’t testify to Congress next week on Benghazi, after fainting and suffering a concussion Saturday and due to her ongoing stomach ailment.”

Hummmmm …………………………

TM

December 15th, 2012
3:58 pm

Tax in order to get a hunting license in this State you must attend and complete and pass a Hunter’s safety course which it not as easy as our driver’s test.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
4:00 pm

in your paintball game I would rather be armed than a sitting duck regardless of the outcome.

Being armed isn’t guaranteed safety. Being armed will likely make you the primary target, and likely dead if you have no idea of what’s coming. Action is always faster than reaction. Try the paintball experiment for yourself and see.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:00 pm

getalife:

You forgot “Brosephus” and “Doggone” holes.

We agree on this one.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:03 pm

“That kid supposingly had Aspergers.
I guarentee that he’s been drugged (government approved of course) for the last ten years of his life”

I wondered about that even before I heard this. Drugging might not have anything to do with it, unless maybe he STOPPED taking his drugs. The characteristic of a person with Asbergers is the near total inability to understand the feelings of others. So it’s not hard to understand that such a person, who had other mental imbalances, to feel that everything was someone else’s fault.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:04 pm

Headline: “When will politicians find courage to ban automatic weapons?”

They have.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
4:06 pm

You forgot “Brosephus” and “Doggone” holes.

When it comes to digging ideological rabbit holes, I can not compete with you. That would be like comparing Michael Phelps to some kid swimming at the Y. You’re like the blog Olympic champion when it comes to digging holes.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:07 pm

“Shootings across the city Friday afternoon and night wounded at least ten people, according to Chicago police, including four teens in three separate South and West side attacks.”

Illinois has the most restrictive firearms laws in the country.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:08 pm

Brosephus:

And again you make it personal.

Too bad.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:08 pm

“You forgot “Brosephus” and “Doggone” holes.”

No one has to follow ANYONE into a “hole”. If you do, that’s YOUR problem.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:09 pm

P.S.

I am proud I force people to face the hard truth ………. and will “NEVER” stand down.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:10 pm

scout,

Hillary is out so you have to get answers from Kerry..

Good luck with that.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
4:10 pm

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:03 pm

“That kid supposingly had Aspergers.
I guarentee that he’s been drugged (government approved of course) for the last ten years of his life”

I wondered about that even before I heard this. Drugging might not have anything to do with it, unless maybe he STOPPED taking his drugs. The characteristic of a person with Asbergers is the near total inability to understand the feelings of others. So it’s not hard to understand that such a person, who had other mental imbalances, to feel that everything was someone else’s fault.
—————————————————————————————-
.
All of the recent shootings have had the “government-approved drug” thing in common.
Even the prog that shot that Congress women.
.
The reason no one talks about is…………probably 90% of Amerikans have drugged their kids.
Not only are the progs relentless for control, big pharma is too.
.
I think it was part of the Bush Family Crime Syndacates “No Child Left with a mind” agenda.
.
I’m not sure.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:11 pm

“I am proud I force people to face the hard truth ”

I’m curious. On a blog, how in the world do you know you’ve FORCED anyone to face anything?

indigo

December 15th, 2012
4:12 pm

scout – 3:04

The “Heller” decision was 5 to 4.

That means, in effect, you think ONE Justice knows all, sees all, hears all.

Has it occured to you that Obama may get a chance to appoint at least one Justice? If so, a future Court may very well vote 5 to 4 in the other direction.

Will you accept the decision since it appears that, to you, the Court is all wise?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:12 pm

“probably 90% of Amerikans have drugged their kids.”

got proof?

I SEE RED PEOPLE

December 15th, 2012
4:12 pm

The cat was let out of the bag a long, long time ago. We will suffer the consequences of this epidemic until the End of Days. With freedom comes responsibility. The irresponsible are the ones who take this Second Amendment freedom and turn it into a travesty.

middle of the road

December 15th, 2012
4:13 pm

“one stick of dynamite equals 100 automatic rifles…”

And do we allow ANYONE to buy dynamite? and blasting caps? Uh, no, they are REGULATED. You have to have a background check and a license and they keep track of who buys them.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:13 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:14 pm

Doggone:

It’s called “semantics” or “hyperbole”.

Take your pick.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
4:14 pm

Illinois has the most restrictive firearms laws in the country.

What part of unlawful cross-state trafficking doesn’t our retired lawman fail to comprehend. Really you should be ashamed of yourself for posting misleading stupidity (I am sure you are not ignorant of these facts). You don’t force anyone to face the “hard truth”, you just prove that you’re a very very foolish old man with honesty issues and an sad sad need for attention like a child

MiltonMan

December 15th, 2012
4:15 pm

Majority of these mass killings are happening in liberal states.

UK Observer

December 15th, 2012
4:15 pm

Speaking from the UK it seems to me something needs to be done, perhaps not federally but State by State. Each state should have a legal obligation to have a strategy to tackle Gun crimes in public areas like schools. Perhaps one state may decide to have an armed guard at every school or one teacher who carries a weapon, whilst another State to ban hand guns in certain public spaces. Maybe each state government should come up with a referendum for its people to decide what to do. Whilst it maybe impossible to ban hand guns due to the number in circulation and the power of the NRA, and the problems prohibition would cause, surely to do nothing and let this happen again is the bigger sin.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:15 pm

Good Fight:

But crossing state lines with an illegal firearms is ……….. well ………… illegal !

So how can that happen ?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:16 pm

indigo:

“Will you accept the decision since it appears that, to you, the Court is all wise?”

Accept ? Yes.

Agree ? No.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
4:16 pm

And again you make it personal.

Ummmm Earth to Scout. You brought my name into it, so how did “I” make it personal? Serious logic failure there, but that’s ok.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
4:17 pm

Really, Senior Digits, serious people are attempting across this country to have a real discussion about what to do to stop the senseless gun violence and all you have is misdirection, lies, ignorance and disinformation. You should be ashamed of yourself.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:17 pm

“and will “NEVER” stand down.”

Like the rest of the old cons, you will die off.

Your numbers are shrinking and I tried to get you cons to treat other Americans with respect but you could not do it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:18 pm

UK Observer:

1) Each state does decide plus there are federal laws.

2) You can “ban” anything. That’s just verbage.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
4:18 pm

Well Senior Digits, if you don’t know how laws are broken, you apparently were not much of a lawman and you’re really an embarrassment now.

MiltonMan

December 15th, 2012
4:19 pm

Let’s see: The Newtown killer – was a goth; just like the Columbine killers. The Newtown killer was a loner; just like the Columbine killer, etc., etc.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
4:19 pm

Jay,

This type of tragedy is something that makes a person think. You try to figure what could be done differently, you ask yourself what brought it on, how do the parents live with this pain ? Unfortunately all questions led me to one conclusion. I don’t believe there is any way to prevent this type of incident. Not as we now live life. We as humans have a natural processing or mechanized way of approaching traumatic events. We ask how and why and then assign blame. In smaller events we are able to follow this course because in due time we allow ourselves to resolve issues by use of the blame we assign. Issues like why did I have that car wreck ? are resolved by telling ourselves it was the wet road rather than the speed we were traveling. Why am I overweight can be resolved by telling ourselves that its the foods that we eat rather than the fact we eat to much of it.
Why did this insane person kill all these little kids ? We can blame guns, we can blame the NRA, we can blame money shortages to hospitals and in fact all that may indeed be contributing factors, but if we are honest with ourselves we should blame – well, ourselves.
Violence takes place after a person learns that it resolves, in some form, issues. A baby is not programmed to amass guns and commit mass murder, society programs the baby.
I am trying to stay as politically nuetral as possible but we live in a society in which THE SANE PEOPLE are considered sane even though we actually debate if abortion is a right, if undeclared war is constitutional, if rapist and murderes should be allowed out of jail. We consider it normal to take our kids to the most violent movies man has ever made. Fathers teach their sons not to be wimps – fighting makes you tough. Mothers teach their girls to be independent – nobody controls you.

We as a society should ask ourselves why we have grown to be such sociopathic individuals, living in a sociopathic world. We teach our kids to do the best THEY can in order to promote THEIR OWN well being not societies well being. We cant even discuss politics without it eventually leading to both sides taking their corners and preparing to fight. Winner take all.

We do these things at our own peril. We do these things blindly ignoring that the weaker amoung us are not equipped to play this game. In their minds they lack the shut off switch, in their minds they are addressing the issue, standing up for themselves, being independent, not taking crap from anyone. Look at these people folks, they are US. !

Now if you really want to take preventative actions consider this. We cannot teach our kids to think about “their” interest. We cannot teach our kids to fend for themselves. We cannot teach our kids to go to the local arena and sit and eat popcorn while they watch the performance in the arena, for that is what we are doing when we send them to the movies now. We are Romans snacking on grapes we just do it cleaner, electronically.

Physically we can do some preventive things. We can make our schools like Fort Knox and we should. We know now that the windows have to be designed differently, so they cannot be shot out. We can and should ban high capacity clips and magazines as well as assault weapons but we have to have the backing of the more liberal amoung us when it comes to enforcing the laws also. We cannot legitimately continue to argue for the mentally ills RIGHT to roam freely amoung us. Not in such a way that it puts our kids at risk. We cannot depend on the insane themselves to self medicate thereby leaving our safety to their properly taking thier pills. We cannot treat proven violent criminals as recovered and allow them back amoung us, as we hope they have been cured or that they have seen the errors of their ways.

We have to be tough on those who will harm us, forgiveness works with friends and family members not the insane and criminal.

As for guns themselves here is another solution. As a conservative I understand the purpose and thought that goes into the constitutional right to bear arms argument. But I will point this out, this right was given so that the government itself could be held in check, so that the ability to resist a over reaching federal government could be had. That was a very well designed effort to keep our government from becoming abusive. We are no longer have that ability. We can have all the AR-15 we want I promise you they will not combat drones and M1 Abram tanks. It is no longer valid to argue the constitutional right to bear arms. The purpose of that is way past our capabilities. Historically speaking, we can no longer use the musket to prevent John Adams from abusing his power. If we believe in the true intent of of founding fathers effort to ensure we are not abused, by an overreaching government, we should now be demanding the right to have a shoulder fired RPG, our own tanks, hell our own nuclear device. Because these are the things it would take to prevent an overreaching government today, these are the things that would ensure our right to go into a just rebellion. Surely we don’t demand that do we ?

Ban all guns or at the very least require mental testing prior to licensing the possession of them. We should know if there is a deranged occupant of the house prior to any weapon going into it. To my fellow conservatives, yes I am willing to take my chances against a sociopath with a knife rather than a gun. More of us will survive the encounter, I promise 20 of our kids will not die at the hands of one knife wielding nut. It’s time to wake up we have argued for our right to carry guns free from government intrusion. I ask you are we really not asking the government to stand by while we arm the insane ? Who are you most likely to encounter these days, the evil government agent or the criminally insane sociopath with a gun ?

At some point fat people have to eat right and stop demanding the right to die.
( disclosure, I am overweight)

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
4:19 pm

middle of the road
one stick of dynamite equals 100 automatic rifles…”

And do we allow ANYONE to buy dynamite? and blasting caps? Uh, no, they are REGULATED. You have to have a background check and a license and they keep track of who buys them.
……………………………………..
unless you steal it….

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
4:20 pm

Jay:
Actually Jay I arm myself because evenly the left will try and take our guns. That’s their ultimate goal…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:20 pm

Brosephus:

I brought your name into it because we agreed on a subject. That’s all. Nothing derrogatory there.

You choose to post derrogatory comments toward me.

Again, your choice. Have at it.

deegee

December 15th, 2012
4:20 pm

There are too many guns floating around. If you think about the framers of the constitution and what it was like back in the old days, I don’t think that people spent their time traveling to gun shows, filling up their gun cabinets, buying guns for their collection, and buying enough ammo to shoot up their village. People had a gun to shoot their food and to protect them from harm. It wasn’t a hobby. The gun proliferation is out of control.

MiltonMan

December 15th, 2012
4:20 pm

“Like the rest of the old cons, you will die off.

Your numbers are shrinking and I tried to get you cons to treat other Americans with respect but you could not do it.”

Our numbers have increased here in GA; lib numbers have increased in places like Newtown.

Facecios

December 15th, 2012
4:21 pm

The Founding Fathers would have put their lives on the line to allow this deranged young man to carry his musket into the schoolhouse and strafe the innocent children. The Second Amendment is THAT sacred.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:22 pm

UK Observer,

We need jobs so I think one armed trained guard at every school is a good start.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:22 pm

“I am proud I force people to face the hard truth ………. and will “NEVER” stand down.”

Keep trying…..you haven’t changed my mind one bit.

In all the reading on this thread, I still don’t see why anyone, even a gun “enthusiast” needs to own guns capable of such rapid fire. The right to own them doesn’t guarantee blanket rights to own any kind. I have a neighbor who has openly bragged about how many rounds of ammo he has for his collection of guns. That’s fine…unless his house catches on fire. Then the rest of us in the neighborhood better hope we’re on the side of the house away from his when those thousands of rounds get hot.

And I still don’t see how one’s right to own guns trumps my right to be safe from the carnage they can cause. A standard revolver can be just as lethal, but I’m pretty sure some intended victims could get out of the way during reloading. A large clip, unless it jams, is much harder to escape from. I don’t question anyone’s right to own guns, but I still question the right to own those large clips at the very least. I don’t see us taking the semi-autos off the market, but can’t we at least reduce the clip size without every NRA supporter wigging out? That seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
4:23 pm

You choose to post derrogatory comments toward me.

Nothing derrogatory in my comment unless you take it as such. You are one who stands firm in their ideology, correct? I’m not, therefore I can not compare to you and your ideological stances can I? If you see standing firm in ideology as something derrogatory, then maybe you should rethink your postings here.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:23 pm

milton,

You got crushed by President Obama twice.

TM

December 15th, 2012
4:24 pm

UK= apparently this guy did not know that the school had a zero tolerance for any type of weapons including pocket knifes and nail files—- or maybe he did???

Facecios

December 15th, 2012
4:25 pm

Tax the bullets. Heavily.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:25 pm

“Well Senior Digits, if you don’t know how laws are broken, you apparently were not much of a lawman and you’re really an embarrassment now.”

Again, you don’t know sarcasm/hyperbole when you see it.

I’ll try to make the point again ……… maybe this time you will get it.

1) Illinois has the most restrictive gun laws of any state. It’s also illegal to violate federal gun laws while entering or being in Illlinois.

2) Having such laws won’t prevent someone from breaking them.

3) Prosecution and incarceration (for the time they are in jail) will.

4) Changing our “culture” will do more than any laws passed.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:26 pm

“Actually Jay I arm myself because evenly the left will try and take our guns. That’s their ultimate goal…”

NO, and I would encourage you to prove that with something more reliable than Glenn Beck, Fox News, or breitbart.com, heritage.org, etc.

I don’t want your guns. You have a constitutional right to them. But I do think at the very least you should be subject to a little more scrutiny and there should be a better record of you if you own large clips and more than one sem-auto weapon.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:27 pm

Facecios:

And so are the 4th, 5th and 6th.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:27 pm

RF:

The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:28 pm

Brosephus:

Disagree.

Joseph

December 15th, 2012
4:29 pm

The Obama administration cut funding for school security to fund more handouts!
http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:30 pm

“But I do think at the very least you should be subject to a little more scrutiny and there should be a better record of you if you own large clips and more than one sem-auto weapon.”

And how would that have prevented this tragedy ?

Facecios

December 15th, 2012
4:31 pm

And the 4th, 5th and 6th have been the subject of many a Supreme Court ruling, limiting, circumscribing and clarifying the scope. The Second Amendment remains essentially limitless.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:31 pm

Joseph:

OUCH !

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
4:31 pm

Senior Digits, I agree changing a “wild west” culture would help. But let’s consider your little whine for a moment. Laws do not mean that no one will every violate the law forever. You, as a former law enforcement officer, also were a miserable failure. Crime still exists. You did not stop all crime. In fact we still have crime.

You were a failure as a Marine. You failed to end all war. We still have wars.

Do you want to try some honest intelligent discourse or just post more inane commentary?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
4:32 pm

Scout

That’s on you. You’re one of the most ideologically rigid persons on this blog, and I’m sure anybody reading the blog would easily see that. Then again, that’s what makes you who you are.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:32 pm

“The Supreme Court disagrees with you.”

Really? They narrowed the interpretation somewhat, but they didn’t explicitly state that one’s right to own guns overshadows the rights of citizens to be safe from violence committed with them. Unless Scalia gets a chance, I don’t think mass murder will ever be covered by SCOTUS interpretation of gun owners’ rights.

Christian Conservative

December 15th, 2012
4:32 pm

RF:
So should people with STD’s be held to a little more scrutiny? Maybe a gubmint website with their names posted….

indigo

December 15th, 2012
4:32 pm

I SEE RED PEOPLE – 4:12

“The irresponsible are the ones who take the Second Ammendment freedom and turn it into a travesty”

I must admit this is the most insightful comment I’ve heard here about this tragedy since it happened.

It’s difficult to see how anyone could argue with you.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:33 pm

Facecios:

“And the 4th, 5th and 6th have been the subject of many a Supreme Court ruling, limiting, circumscribing and clarifying the scope. The Second Amendment remains essentially limitless.”

1) Regarding the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments, vicious criminals are released all of the time due to technical violations of same ……….. released to rape and murder again.

2) Regarding the 2nd, there are “unlimited” local, state and federal laws and regulations that would fill volumes.

TM

December 15th, 2012
4:33 pm

Degree- you always want to go back to to the framers intent when talking about guns and the second amendment but all of sudden it becomes a living document when talking about abortion or gay rights, Can’t have it both ways.

I SEE RED PEOPLE

December 15th, 2012
4:34 pm

And even more difficult to apply a remedy to irresponsibility.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:35 pm

RF:

Really !

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
4:35 pm

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
4:36 pm

UK Observer

December 15th, 2012
4:15 pm

“whilst another State to ban hand guns in certain public spaces. Maybe each state government should come up with a referendum for its people to decide what to do. Whilst it maybe impossible to ban hand guns due to the number in circulation and the power of the NRA, and the problems prohibition would cause, surely to do nothing and let this happen again is the bigger sin.”
.
—————————————————————————————–
.
whilst?
.
What the hey?
We don’t..take…kindly ……to them kinda words.
Around up in here.
.
watchit.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:36 pm

“The irresponsible are the ones who take the Second Ammendment (sic) freedom and turn it into a travesty”

The irresponsible are the ones who take the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment freedoms and turn them into a travesty”.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:37 pm

TM @ 4:33

Thank you.

Facecios

December 15th, 2012
4:38 pm

Then if your point is that the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments need to be tightened up even further to decrease recidivism, then I say fine, take the 2nd Amendment along with it then.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:38 pm

Like the attack in Libya, corporate media reports were dead wrong.

They reported two deaths but as I was cleaning my guns and watching cnn, I wondered why every government official showed up and why they set up a triage tent.

Then they finally reported all the deaths and now they say they know the motive.

My point is we should wait on all the facts before we act and never speculate like the gop on Libya.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:38 pm

@Joseph 4:29- that’s hardly an unbiased or even credible source, but quote what you like. 20-30million in funding, when spread across the number of school districts in this country, likely didn’t even buy enough paper to write a security plan on, let alone provide any actual personnel to do the job. My district, like many in GA, works with local law enforcement to provide a full time school resource officer on most, if not all campuses. We have one at my school, and he’s a fully certified police officer from the local police department. He’s good- but even he would tell you his ability to stop something like this is limited, but that is one of his trained jobs. His position is funded locally, and there’s no reason for the federal government to be in that business.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:38 pm

“I still don’t see why anyone, even a gun “enthusiast” needs to own guns capable of such rapid fire”

As long as they are law abiding it’s not neccessary for you to understand it. Just as you don’t need to understand why people collect any other item.

I SEE RED PEOPLE

December 15th, 2012
4:41 pm

Scout, please explain to all of us how the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments have even the most infinitesimal bearing on the Newtown Massacre.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
4:43 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
3:26 pm

By the way, just so everyone knows based on a federal law passed about ten years ago, any “retired” local, state or federal law enforcement officer (or currently on active duty) may carry concealed in any state.

——————————————————————————————————–
.
I like you Scout.
I believe your heart is in the right place but your years in service to leviathon has maybe ….did something.
Regardless……………..NOBODY has the right to come on MY property concealed or otherwise…carrying…….unless I FIRST give permission.
.
And i don’t care how many Eric Holders or Paintball weilding Brocephus’s you have.
It’ll be a herd lesson for everyone involved.
.
Shiney Tin badges and 18USC926……..means nothing…………………to Patriots.
.
Forward Liberty!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:44 pm

Facecios:

“Then if your point is that the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments need to be tightened up even further to decrease recidivism, then I say fine, take the 2nd Amendment along with it then.”

Now you are being more reasonable. It’s always a matter of degree.

We have state legislatures, a Congress, a President and a Supreme Court. They will work on it.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:45 pm

Scout: prove to me that a gun owner’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every citizen of this country. And yes, I’ve read much of Heller, so you know.

“All the wounds were caused by the long weapon.”
“I only did seven autopsies and they ranged from three to 11 wounds a piece.”

And we don’t need to think about limiting access to large clips and assault weapons….how sad. Some might have survived one wound, or at least as many wouldn’t have been killed by not having the ability to fire so many rounds so fast. But we insist on shouting about the right to bear arms and justify putting that much firepower at such easy access to any and all.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:47 pm

Thomas Heyward Jr :

And you would be correct (absent a warrant) and that also includes other places such as airports, schools, etc., but I don’t get your larger point.

My point was that those individuals aren’t required to get “toter/carry licenses” in each and every state.

Now ……….. what was your serious point?

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:47 pm

tom,

Go be in a cup and give it to government fake patriot.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:48 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:48 pm

“Scout: prove to me that a gun owner’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every citizen of this country.”

Because the Supreme Court said so.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:50 pm

I SEE RED PEOPLE:

“Scout, please explain to all of us how the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments have even the most infinitesimal bearing on the Newtown Massacre.”

Because as tragic as it is, enforcing those other three Amendments means that innocent people are sometimes harmed.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:50 pm

“pee not be.”

Yeah, we know…but you gotta admit, it was funny!

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:51 pm

“that innocent people are sometimes harmed.”

Newton massacre.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:51 pm

“As long as they are law abiding it’s not neccessary for you to understand it. Just as you don’t need to understand why people collect any other item.”

Then eventually they’ll all have a right, as “law abiding” citizens, to carry fully automatic weapons. Hell, why don’t we just put an Uzi in every household and get it over with.

As a citizen who has a right to participate in daily life, I have a right to think I can go out without fear that someone will show up where I am and use one of those things. I have a right to safety, a right that was irrevocably denied 27 people yesterday. That will happen regardless, I know, but no matter how many times you say it just don’t make it so.

So how do we make sure those who have them are law abiding and remain that way? How do we protect those of us who don’t want that kind of firepower in our possession?

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:52 pm

“Scout: prove to me that a gun owner’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every citizen of this country.”

Kind of like they also said that a woman’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every unborn child in this country.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:53 pm

“Then eventually they’ll all have a right, as “law abiding” citizens, to carry fully automatic weapons. Hell, why don’t we just put an Uzi in every household and get it over with.”

Federal law and the Supreme Court have said no to that one.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
4:54 pm

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:54 pm

“but you gotta admit, it was funny!”

He is always good for a laugh.

“Liberty., forward, patriot.”

Cracks me up :)

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
4:55 pm

Majority of these mass killings are happening in liberal states.

There we go. The cesspool element has finally arrived!

It took awhile, but I knew that sooner or later one of the more repugnant people here would write something utterly depraved.

Congrats to the morally malignant Milton.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:55 pm

“Just as you don’t need to understand why people collect any other item.”

Yeah, well I don’t think a stamp collector is exactly amassing an arsenal that could kill folks, unless he asphyxiates his victims with pages of stamps when they’re not looking….

Collecting guns is fine….but how many rounds of ammo should any citizen be allowed to have in his possession at one time. I know a guy who has about 10,000 rounds at last count. Luckily he lives in Texas, so I can avoid being near him when he goes postal.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:57 pm

“Then eventually they’ll all have a right, as “law abiding” citizens, to carry fully automatic weapons”

Ahhhh, yes…that slippery slope. No one has said such weapons shouldn’t be regulated and their ownership strictly controlled. All that has been said is that people prepared to follow and obey the laws on such weapons are not required to explain their ownership of such weapons TO YOU.

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:57 pm

“Kind of like they also said that a woman’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every unborn child in this country.”

Deflection is not an answer. Answer my question or admit you can’t.

Again: prove to me that a gun owner’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every citizen of this country.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
4:58 pm

I am more interested in why these two kids in their twenties snapped and decided to kill as many as possible before killing themselves.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
4:59 pm

“Luckily he lives in Texas, so I can avoid being near him when he goes postal”

And your reason for believing that will ever happen is…?

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:00 pm

Why don’t we just come to grip with the fact that both sides have issue with the way our constitution is interrupted today ?

In all honesty is is right to allow any death that is preventable ?

Conservatives have rallied against judicial activist for years now yet we accept our own dated constitutional concepts.

Our founding fathers no more intended to protect abortion than they did our right to bear arms against home invaders. The right to bear arms was put in place to ensure that an injustice government could not reign. To ensure the people’s ability to overthrow such a government. Unless you intend to overthrow the government your reliance on the constitution to keep your gun is moot.

Now on the other hand if you are prepared to state openly and publically that you have a gun in order to overthrow a suppressive federal government you would have a constitutional argument.

And let’s not get caught up in the right to protect yourself in your on home. That is an entirely different argument.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
5:01 pm

Deflection is not an answer. Answer my question or admit you can’t.

Just read a tweet that is appropriate here, and used in the same context: Give it up It’s like trying to discuss modern art with a Krylon huffer.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:01 pm

“Again: prove to me that a gun owner’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every citizen of this country”

And why don’t YOU try proving that the legal ownership of such weapons, by law abiding citizens, is a dange to the right to live of other citizens

TM

December 15th, 2012
5:01 pm

RF you want to outlaw knives, bows and arrows, sling shots, cross bows and baseball bats or is it only guns that scare you???

Dwight

December 15th, 2012
5:02 pm

Thanks Jay. This was the closest articulation of my view of the firearms debate I’ve seen. The Second amendment enshrines the ability to regulate weapons. I feel like the debate over the years has been covered in the media as a hard left-right battle. One side seems to be for as many guns as possible all the time while the other seems to be for banning them all. I don’t think this is at all an accurate portrayal. There is a sensible way of regulating this, but I don’t feel that either the NRA or Brady campaign have done the country any favors on this issue.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:02 pm

Enter your comments here”I am more interested in why these two kids in their twenties snapped and decided to kill as many as possible before killing themselves.”

According to a psychiatrist I heard interviewed yesterday, such people externalize the bad things that happen to them. it’s someone else’s fault…and they take it out on “someone else” But he also said that millions of people have personality traits that are similar, but that never get to that point.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
5:04 pm

I am more interested in why these two kids in their twenties snapped and decided to kill as many as possible before killing themselves.

getalife

His former classmates believed he had Asperger’s syndrome.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:04 pm

Mama Says:

That was one of the main points in “Heller v. D.C.”:

Page 24

b. SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

“The phrase “security of a free state” meant “security of a free polity” not security of each of the several states.”

“There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary for the security of a free state” ……….. Third, when the
able bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.”

Page 25

3. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PREFATORY CLAUSE AND OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the able bodied men was not by
banning the militia but simply taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress
political opponents.”

Page 26

“It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might
be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down.”

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:05 pm

“All that has been said is that people prepared to follow and obey the laws on such weapons are not required to explain their ownership of such weapons TO YOU”

I never said they had to. I said the availability of that kind of firepower needs to either be limited or, at the very least, closely monitored. And noone has answered my question as to why such weaponry should be available to the general public. Guaranteeing the constitutional right to guns doesn’t mean that large clips and semi-auto weapons should be so easy to get. I just don’t see the need for them, and once again we see them as part of a massacre where the number of victims could have been greatly reduced by simply not having that mass of firepower in the killer’s hands. Justify that, and I’ll stop harping on it. In the meantime, tell me how we protect people from such firepower when one of those who legally has it takes a turn for the crazy side.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
5:06 pm

” it’s someone else’s fault…”

We see alot of this deflection on this blog.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:07 pm

And I quote Jay (about as liberal as one can get) above:

“On the other hand, those who turn reflexively to gun control as an answer must acknowledge the inadequacies of that approach as well. Yesterday’s school shooting took place in Connecticut, a state with strong gun-control laws.”

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:08 pm

Kam,

I very rarely agree with you. But your comment about if someone would have been armed is the winning comment. There is no way to defeat it. As a conservative I didn’t even have the desire to try.

You are right the mother wad armed wasnt she. She was also in her own home where the use of those guns to defend herself was the most likely place to occur. Neither theory proved itself did it.

Sid

December 15th, 2012
5:09 pm

The rest of the world shakes its head in sadness at the stupidity of the American people.

I am so glad I do not live in your country. How stupid are you to have so many guns?

I simply don’t understand it.

In my country the population do not have guns. The police do not have guns (except for some armed-response units).

In my country if some lunatic gets angry, he can fantasise about killing his enemies….but that’s all it is – a fantasy. He has no easy way of getting guns. In your country these fantasies may coincide with gun access and then one day the fantasy becomes a reality.

Please let go of this 2nd Amendment – how many more children must die? Your NRA is bankrolled by the arms industry who make their fortunes from your misery. Why do you let them do it? I know you are not ALL fools but right now the world is wondering just how many of you realise the folly of your gun religion.

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:09 pm

“RF you want to outlaw knives, bows and arrows, sling shots, cross bows and baseball bats or is it only guns that scare you???”

I love it when someone goes for the absurd in an otherwise reasonable debate….

Guns don’t scare me, but large clips and semi-autos do bother me, especially when yet another massacre happens and the shooter has several of them in his possession.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
5:10 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
4:47 pm

Thomas Heyward Jr :

And you would be correct (absent a warrant) and that also includes other places such as airports, schools, etc., but I don’t get your larger point.

My point was that those individuals aren’t required to get “toter/carry licenses” in each and every state.

Now ……….. what was your serious point?
—————————————————————————————-
.
My point being………….my sovereign property rights trump ALL of your tin badges and federalie laws.
And my assault rifles ( unfortanantly I lost them all in a boating accident in 2008) but if I did have some…….would .act as a type of insurance over overzealous federalies.
.
No disrespect intended.
I’m just keeping your feet on the ground.
.
Carry on Sir…………..with the good fight.
(although you should at least try to attenuate your war-mongering tendencies..read some Rothbard, Therou, or maybe even some Gandhi).,,,,,,,,,The Prince of Peace would.

pogo

December 15th, 2012
5:11 pm

I wonder that as well getalife. I wonder sometimes if the computer “games” that these kids are playing are warping their sense of reality. The graphics on these games is incredible. The weapons are digitized counterparts to the real thing. They operate exactly as the real thing would right down to re-arming and jamming and their impact on a human body is exactly what it would be in real life. The makers of these gains of course leave out the pain and the sufferring that would be involved with such extreme acts of violence. I think the players very well may be becoming de-sensitized from what the pain of such acts really is. That and a million other things wrong with the mentality of our society today.

Skip

December 15th, 2012
5:11 pm

Looks like a couple here support the shooters right to kill little kids.

josef

December 15th, 2012
5:12 pm

SID

Which is your country?

TM

December 15th, 2012
5:13 pm

RF what is the difference between having one gun with a large clip or two guns with regular clips? None= they both fire the same amount.

josef

December 15th, 2012
5:14 pm

pogo

There is much truth in that.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
5:14 pm

Kam,

Yes, I read that and his Dad and brother are smart accountants.

The other kid at the mall was normal.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:16 pm

“And noone has answered my question as to why such weaponry should be available to the general public”

Who said they were? They are hedged with strict laws and requirements and there’s not really that many people who care enough about having one to follow those requirements.

“I never said they had to”

Not in so many words, maybe…but your constant refrain the you “see no need” for anyone to have them is, whether you will admit it or not, a demand to explain WHY someone wants one. No one owes you any explanation, period. And, in fact, it isn’t even neccessary for someone to “need” such a weapon…anymore than it is neccessary for anyone to own anything else that someone sees “no need” for them to own.

“I just don’t see the need for them”

as I said above

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
5:16 pm

Neither theory proved itself did it.

No.

And I agree with Doggone/GA, law abiding citizens shouldn’t have to justify their reasons for owning legally obtained weapons.

In light of new developments, I am coming to the conclusion that Nancy Lanza was not a responsible gun owner. A report I read earlier said that a fourth gun was at the scene — a gun that belonged to his father.

These weapons should have been secured against their son who was obviously mentally ill. Even his former classmates believed it.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:16 pm

“I am so glad I do not live in your country”

That’s perfectly fine. We’re glad you don’t live here too.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:17 pm

311,

I find myself in a debate with my own side.

I do not doubt your positions historical importance what I doubt is the fact that we as citizens could face down a well equipped army should constitutional order break down. We have crossed that line already haven’t we ?

State are mandated by the federal government to do certain things. Government impounds our personal property if we don’t give it what it wants.

Government has now reasoned with itself that it can make you buy what it deems to be in our best interest.

I mean what constitutional breakdown do you foresee that hasn’t or isn’t taking place ?

We will never again physically resist our government in this country. We are to fat and happy as well as selfish to get off the sofa.

The gun rights that you stand for are as effective as the scarecrow. Once the birds figure out it can’t chase them they use it for a roost.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:17 pm

“Guns don’t scare me, but large clips and semi-autos do bother me”

It only takes one to kill someone.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:18 pm

“Looks like a couple here support the shooters right to kill little kids”

Maybe you should get your eyes checked. Or your brain. You aren’t seeing what you think you are seeing.

td

December 15th, 2012
5:19 pm

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2012
3:04 pm

Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the Constitution may be altered. Altering the Constitution consists of proposing an amendment or amendments and subsequent ratification.

Amendments may be proposed by either:

two-thirds of both houses of the United States Congress; or
by a national convention assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the states.

To become part of the Constitution, amendments must then be ratified either by approval of:

the legislatures of three-fourths of the states; or
state ratifying conventions held in three-fourths of the states.

Congress has discretion as to which method of ratification should be used.

Any amendment so ratified becomes a valid part of the Constitution, provided that no state “shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the senate,” without its consent.

Good luck when are you going to get started?

getalife

December 15th, 2012
5:20 pm

pogo,

My Brother is good at Call of Duty playing other people on line and they are mostly stoners.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 15th, 2012
5:21 pm

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:00 pm

Our founding fathers no more intended to protect abortion than they did our right to bear arms against home invaders. The right to bear arms was put in place to ensure that an injustice government could not reign. To ensure the people’s ability to overthrow such a government. Unless you intend to overthrow the government your reliance on the constitution to keep your gun is moot.

Now on the other hand if you are prepared to state openly and publically that you have a gun in order to overthrow a suppressive federal government you would have a constitutional argument.
================================================================
.
One has insurance NOT to fight pancreadic cancer.
One has insurance to mitigate the financial effects of pancreatic cancer.
.
I will state openly and publicly that I (used to have guns) NOT to overthrow a suppressive and corrupt federal government.
But to MITIGATE the effects of a suppresive and corrupt federal government.
\.
Historically amnesiac or “on-the-take” Progressives………..that worship the state…….just can not understand.

josef

December 15th, 2012
5:21 pm

DOGGONE

I note that Sid has yet to identify which is his country. Perhaps he is hesitant to do so knowing that someone here will google a list of similar atrocities from there. The mentally unstable who snap and wreck mayhem are not limited to a specific geo political division.

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:28 pm

TM- perhaps not much difference, but at least in changing from one gun to the other, there is an opportunity for at least a few potential victims to escape. Large clips have no useful purpose in anything but a military operation, IMHO.

“Not in so many words, maybe…but your constant refrain the you “see no need” for anyone to have them is, whether you will admit it or not, a demand to explain WHY someone wants one”

No, doggone, it’s not. I don’t care WHY someone has them, I simply don’t see a need for it and too much potential danger in having it. Simple as that, and I stand by my opinion. And it’s just that, an opinion expressed on a blog that has no power to change anthing whatsoever. I know that, but I stand by my opinion regardless. That is only one issue that in the grand scheme of things may have no significant impact, but it bothers me nonetheless. And noone, anywhere I’ve read, can offer any justification beyond what you’ve offered, and I think it’s perfectly fine to ask for that. It is the nonchalance of our American attitude about how much is enough that is becoming increasingly worrisome, and guns are only one part of that worry.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:32 pm

This entire gun argument is moot really. The civil war should have taught us several things.

Aside from the slavery issue I mean.

This country was in the height of an armed revolution against a government that several states felt was overreaching. Those states left the union and fought to the deaths of some 400,000 people.

What did our federal government do to avoid the constitutional issues ?

Lincoln suspended Habeus, dissolved the rebelling states original sitting state governments, appointed his people as the real state governments and then had them approve of his constitutional measures to usurp the written intent.

My point is that the right to bear arms issue has proven itself useless. We are allowing our kids to be killed for a right that is out dated at best and that has already proven ineffective.

The only way to change government now is by the vote. The rights most sacred to our freedom is speech and assembly, the violence angle is no longer.

td

December 15th, 2012
5:33 pm

RF

December 15th, 2012
4:57 pm

“Kind of like they also said that a woman’s rights come ahead of the right to life of every unborn child in this country.”

Deflection is not an answer. Answer my question or admit you can’t.

There has been at least 4 different bloggers answering your questions all day. The problem is you do not want to accept their answers, even when the proof is put in front of your face.

Fact: The Second Amendment, the writings of the founding fathers and the SCOTUS basically says the people of this country has a right (That government SHALL NOT be able to take away) to keep and bear arms.

If you do not agree with this then start getting 2/3 of the members of Congress to propose a Constitutional Amendment to override the 2nd Amendment. The you have to get 75 states to approve such an Amendment.

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:33 pm

“These weapons should have been secured against their son who was obviously mentally ill.”

She probably thought they were secure, as many folks do. The only real security of them makes them difficult to get to and use in a split second situation, which is about all the time you have when faced with potential violence. Even as I’ve ranted about it today, I know the problem is more in how people handle them and secure them that is at the heart of the problem. Like anything else, you get lax in your handling and use, and you make it easier for something like this to happen. And I know the vast majority of responsible owners keep their standards up, especially when they know there’s a potential problem in the household. Just too many of these situations popping up in recent years…

willie lynch

December 15th, 2012
5:37 pm

Now everyone wants to claim we can spot all people with mental health issues. Some of the most admired people in history have had mental health issues. What are we supposed to do when we determine this person has a certain issue? Do we immediately lock them away? Are we suppose to force medication on them?

The problem is the gun. Yesterday in China a man slashed 22 students. SLASHED!!! In America there was a completely different result and that result was due to the type of instrument used in the assault.

We can dance around the issue and claim constitutional rights but the numbers show that guns in the hands of the general populace has not been to the benefit of the country.

I’m sure the parents of the children in China are feeling much better than those of their more civilized American counterparts.

td

December 15th, 2012
5:38 pm

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:32 pm

“The only way to change government now is by the vote. The rights most sacred to our freedom is speech and assembly, the violence angle is no longer.”

Lincoln also jailed people in the north that spoke out against him or the government and those that assembled in protest, so I guess that means our whole is meaningless now and the government has total control.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
5:38 pm

It is easier to buy a gun than it is to adopt a puppy. Sad but true.

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:39 pm

“The problem is you do not want to accept their answers, even when the proof is put in front of your face.”

They’ve given their opinions as I’ve given mine. And your proof is???

Don’t come at me with the second amendment yet again. I know that one, tiny brain, and I have consistently stated on this thread that I’m not against anyone “bearing arms.” My questions have centered around the need for certain types, and I’ve asked how the general population can be guaranteed some level of safety from the potential harm they can cause when in the wrong hands.

Read carefully fool– I support the 2nd amendment. Got that?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
5:39 pm

Just too many of these situations popping up in recent years…

And I lay the blame for this at the feet of the NRA and some (let me reiterate, SOME) dealers. They should be about educating owners about responsible ownership as much or more as they are about the right to arm bears.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:39 pm

Thomas,

Your right to win a gun is preventing what ?

The fact that you and others have guns (as I do ) has little bearing on the federal governments decision making process. You and I are no match for today’s government powers.

While I do not encourage the act, your are failing the intent of the constitution as you interpret it. The fact that you have a gun is meaningless unless you use it to combat the government that you surely do not trust. Since I am assuming you have not exercised that right you then are arguing a hollow point.

You may as well throw your ammunition in the trash the fact that you have a gun will remain just as an effect deterrent to the federal government and its abuse of power.

Again, I do not condone an overthrow attempt I am talking about the basis of the conservative argument.

td

December 15th, 2012
5:41 pm

willie lynch

December 15th, 2012
5:37 pm

Well then start getting 2/3 of Congress to propose the legislation to amend the Constitution and work on 75 states to pass such an amendment.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:42 pm

TD,

Now you see the picture. Do you see yourself charging capital hill with your AR15

willie lynch

December 15th, 2012
5:43 pm

Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
5:32 pm

I agree completely.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
5:45 pm

Yes, because the NRA made that guy kill those kids. Why are folks on the left so ignorant?

It’s painfully obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Hmmmmmmm

December 15th, 2012
5:45 pm

I was wondering when some idiot would bring up gun control… as if the gun killed those kids, as if somebody that evil couldn’t get his hands on guns if they were totally banned… Good grief, find something else to blame this on other than guns… Guns could have prevented this had the teachers been trained to use guns and were authorized to have a gun at their disposal. We could have a armed security team at every school to take care of monsters like this who intend to kill innocent people.. It’s really an easy fix, if we really wanted to protect our schools and children we will quit blaming it on the lack of gun control and come up with a rational approach… But I can dream.. most of you would rather whine about gun control than take care of the problem… Pathetic!

td

December 15th, 2012
5:45 pm

the cat

December 15th, 2012
5:38 pm

It is easier to buy a gun than it is to adopt a puppy. Sad but true.

It is easier to kill an unborn child then it is to buy a gun or to adopt a puppy.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:46 pm

“I simply don’t see a need for it and too much potential danger in having it”

Fine, then don’t own one. That is your choice. What you don’t have the right to do is limit someone else from owning them just because YOU don’t see the need. And also, even though you will NOT admit it, you ARE asking for someone to justify it to you . It’s none of your business.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:46 pm

You change the government by electing people who will not pander and throwing g out those who have shown themselves willing to do so.

This form of government is the best in the world we should never seek to overthrow it, we should seek to remove those who have compromised it and us.

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:47 pm

“They should be about educating owners about responsible ownership as much or more as they are about the right to arm bears.”

Yep, and there should be better records of who has them and ongoing training required. That’s never going to happen because too many would protest about “guvmint interference” if they had to miss a college football game to go to a gun safety class.

josef

December 15th, 2012
5:47 pm

DONNAN

Are you new here? If you are, let me point out that in this argument today, there are just as many lefties arguing against gun control as there are righties arguing for it. You might want to hold off on your left-right dichotomy. If you are a regular, you know these folks already and you know that. In which case you’re just gratuitously stirring sh*t…

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:47 pm

“It is easier to buy a gun than it is to adopt a puppy. Sad but true”

Baloney. If all I wanted was a puppy I could have one in an hour.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
5:48 pm

“It is easier to kill an unborn child then it is to buy a gun or to adopt a puppy.

We were made in God’s image. God kills the unborn. So why should we not be able to do that in his image?

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
5:50 pm

Hummmmm,

You must have missed Kams comment.

The first victim was armed and trained. He killed his mother and then went to the school with her guns.

KlinTisha

December 15th, 2012
5:52 pm

“Gun control” is a mindless, meaningless feel good phrase that we roll out whenever there’s a mass shooting, then it fades slowly away until the inevitable next incident.

A realistic, doable way to prevent this – or at least make it more challenging for the crazies – is to post a trained, armed officer in every school in America. Maybe a good gig for some of our military guys who need civilian jobs as we wind down Iraq and Afghanistan.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:52 pm

Thomas Heyward, Jr.:

“My point being………….my sovereign property rights trump ALL of your tin badges and federalie laws.”

And you would be correct ………. except for that pesky little thing called a “search warrant” !

(Note: See the 4th Amendment for additional clarification)

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:53 pm

SID:

Please don’t ever come to this country.

td

December 15th, 2012
5:54 pm

There has been the mass killing of over 2,000 children today alone in this country by their mothers and you progressives say nothing or even worse approve of this murder.

Now you want to come on this blog and demand that we take all the guns away or restrict law bidding citizens from owning guns because of some nut bag killed 20 children yesterday when they were 6 to 10 years old.

Sorry but your argument has no legitimacy in my book and just shows how much of a hypocrites you really are.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
5:54 pm

That’s never going to happen because too many would protest about “guvmint interference” if they had to miss a college football game to go to a gun safety class.

RF

I wish that the NRA and all gun dealers would realize that it is in their best interest to see that their customers are well educated about the use and safety of the product they are selling.

I have been to several dealers that act put out if I ask a question as if it’s a stupid question. I even had one dealer/range owner in downtown Lawrenceville say, “If you have to ask questions, then maybe you shouldn’t be here.”

Now, I don’t know anyone that was born knowing how to handle every weapon.

When it comes to guns, there are no stupid questions.

josef

December 15th, 2012
5:55 pm

SCOUT

And I repeat what I said to Doggone…Sid does not tell us which country he is from.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:55 pm

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” Mahatma Gandhi

George Watson

December 15th, 2012
5:55 pm

Like so many unintended consequences of defective thinking, our society, in the name of freedom of expression, sanctions violence in ways that would be an embarrassment in many other cultures. We lionize men and increasingly women with guns, and in recent times, entertainment that features the gratuitous, wanton slaughter of anyone and everyone in a fight scenario. An entire industry has grown up around video games dedicated to this kind of violence. We cannot legislate culture, but we can decide what is acceptable and proper, and eventually reverse this out of control obsession with violence. But in the meantime, disarming the general public isn’t a bad idea.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:57 pm

“Gun bans don’t disarm criminals, gun bans attract them.” Walter Mondale

Hmmmmmmm

December 15th, 2012
5:57 pm

@Mama Says

If we have trained people in these schools that have the ability to protect against catastrophic violence of this nature, then the odds of multiple deaths goes way down… The absurdity of bringing up gun control again and again is just comical! If you have procedures in place for everybody that enters a school with this kind of protection, you will find the incidence rate go WAY down. IMHO, some of you tree huggers will probably disagree…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
5:58 pm

josef:

Probably our “mother country”.

willie lynch

December 15th, 2012
5:58 pm

td
December 15th, 2012
5:41 pm

My point is the position of the gun rights side is ridiculous. I believe the moneyed lobbies will keep the issue in a quagmire against what could only be described as good sense policy that says we should ban guns.

The idea that your gun will protect you against the tyranny of the all powerful government is absolutely ridiculous. You as a private citizen could not buy enough arms to protect yourself against the government. If they want it/you they’ll get it/you. And as for protecting your home if your assailant has a baseball bat and you do too your chances of survival are much better than if you both had a gun.

Do you see a NEED for gun ownership?

Jay

December 15th, 2012
5:59 pm

from the Washington Post:

“Connecticut chief medical examiner H Wayne Carver II said that the victims each suffered three to 11 gunshot wounds and appeared to have died quickly. “All of wounds that I know of were caused by the long weapon,” he said, referring to the semi-automatic Bushmaster rifle found at the scene.”

RF

December 15th, 2012
5:59 pm

“It’s none of your business.”

I think if you ask the parents of one of the kids killed yesterday, they might be thinking it is our business to talk about it and ask some tough questions. It is my business if I’m sitting in a movie theater or college classroom or my child’s elementary school and someone comes in with an assortment of them.

Again, simply saying it’s none of my business doesn’t negate my right to ask why we need the large clips and semi-auto weapons on the general market. I don’t have any legal right to know who has them, I’ll give you that. But why does it aggravate you so that I simply ask for one, single, solitary good reason for someone to have one other than just because they want to? I don’t mean to aggravate you, please know that. I just want to know one reasonable, sensible use for it. Collect guns, hunt, target shoot all you want. That’s fine. But there’s no purpose in those being in general circulation that I can think of, and having that is a lot worse than collecting stamps or antique furniture.

I’m going to retire from this debate as it’s obviously not where I need to be today. I’m not trying to be obstinate just to create an argument. It’s time for us as a nation to seriously reconsider our attitudes about guns and either do something to better regulate their safe use or educate everyone about their potential dangers. Something positive has to start coming out of these tragedies.

Matti

December 15th, 2012
6:00 pm

It’s us. It’s our culture that glorifies violence as not only the solution to certain problems, but as a form of nightly entertainment. It’s a culture that cares more about swagger and strut and power than whether our citizens get medical care when they’re sick, especially if they’re mentally ill. Look away from the weird people. Try not to think about it. What time does **insert name of favorite cop show that begins and ends with brutal violence** start?

We can ask: “What have we become?” but make no mistake. It’s us. We are ALL complicit.

Hmmmmmmm

December 15th, 2012
6:00 pm

And then there was willie lynch… Poster child for gun control… Jeez…

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
6:01 pm

josef:

P.S.

They’ve always been a little ticked off because they could control their own people (without guns) but couldn’t control us (with guns).

There’s a message there somewhere.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 15th, 2012
6:03 pm

And finally:

“The Second Amendment is the Equal Rights Amendment.” Jannalee Tobias

Until tomorrow ……………….

Soothsayer

December 15th, 2012
6:03 pm

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:04 pm

MATTI

Word.

SCOUT

And then there is the argument that Doggone puts forward. They shipped their malcontent masses offshore to become us.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
6:05 pm

I don’t understand those who would outlaw abortion.

We’ve been there and done that, remember? And it was a colossal failure.

THAT is why we no longer send women to prison or watch them die needlessly – somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 deaths per decade. Many from infection and hemorrhaging afterward.

Women often tried to induce abortion or cause a miscarriage by throwing themselves down stairs or inflicting violence on themselves. They ingested, douched with or inserted into themselves a chilling variety of chemicals and toxins–from bleach to potassium permanganate to turpentine to gunpowder and whiskey. Knitting needles, crochet hooks, scissors and coat hangers were all among the tools used by women who had no choice but to resort to these means.

Yes, lets return to that, shall we?

The 1973 laws have survived serious legal challenges in 1976, 1986, 1993 and 2007. They stand and will likely stand forever. There is no going back.

Hallelujah.

RF

December 15th, 2012
6:06 pm

“There has been the mass killing of over 2,000 children today alone in this country by their mothers and you progressives say nothing or even worse approve of this murder.”

Really? Where do you get those numbers? Please don’t quote Fox, heritage, or breitbart…

NOONE here approves of murder. And how dare you attempt to hide behind abortion to justify the slaughter of 27 innocent people. That is, perhaps, the very indication of just how low some of you far-right nuts will go in your undying faith in the party. Slaughter’s okay so long as they were born and lived a few years, is that it?

I’m out. This is getting worse instead of better.

That Black Guy

December 15th, 2012
6:06 pm

RF,

I have been reading these comments (along with the ones from yesterday). You are arguing from a position of emotion, not reason.

Yesterday, all you talked about was “automatic” weapons, until yolu were corrected.
Then you switched to “assault” weapons, until you were corrected.
Today, its semi-automatic.

EXACTLY what do you know about guns? Seriously.

A 12 ga pump action shotgun is a extremely lethal weapon. I could be in a room with 7 targets, and 7 rounds (shells for the shotgun). With the shotgun (not a semi-automatic, assault weapon) I could hit 6 out of 7 at least. With an “assault” weapon, maybe 4 out of 7, depending on distance.

There are hammerless revolvers that do not require cocking before firing, JUST LIKE semi-automatics. Fire rate depends on finger speed in both weapons.

My point is that NO problem has ever been rationally solved when argued from a position of emotion.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
6:07 pm

Mama Says: The fact that you and others have guns (as I do ) has little bearing on the federal governments decision making process. You and I are no match for today’s government powers.

I tried to explain that earlier, but I think it fell on deaf ears. The best prevention against government overtaking the will of the people is that the people can actually run and get elected to become “the government”. What’s happened instead is that people, on both sides, have basically abdicated that security to an almost permanently entrenched ruling class, and installing a ruling class was not what the founders intended.

Soothsayer

December 15th, 2012
6:10 pm

How many gun deaths do you think this Lanza fellow has seen on the TEEVEE and in the movies since he was old enough to realize what he was seeing? 1,000? 5,000? 10,000? MORE?

pogo

December 15th, 2012
6:10 pm

Ask SID how illegal drugs are going in his country and see what he says. Drug violence and drug overdoses kill more people worldwide every year than firearms do (if you leave war and revolution). What good has the Controlled Substance Act and the DEA done in curtailling illegal drug use in this country and the death it brings? The answer; nothing. The US is more addicted than ever and I would imagine that “SID’s” country is as well.

The sad truth is if a person is mentally ill, smart enough and driven enough he/she will find a way to kill. For that matter, any number of things such as natural gas, gasoline tankers and many many other things that we use everyday could be used for genecide if a person were sick and smart enough to do it. And make no mistake, there are those out there that ARE smart enough and warped enough to do it. What we should be asking ourselves is what in the hell is it about our society that is creating these monsters? Politics? Yes. Religion? Yes. Our society’s obsession with violence and its glorious portrayal by Hollywood and by the media? Yes. And the list goes on forever.

That Black Guy

December 15th, 2012
6:13 pm

RF, also…

Doggone is right.

There is no need to explain why a law abiding citizen owns anything that is legal.

There is no “need” for me to own a $70 bottle of rum, but so what if I do.

My brother has no “need” to own over 50 knives/swords, but it is still none of your business.

I can GUARANTEE that YOU own something that someone feels that you don’t “need”, would you give it up to make them feel better?

indigo

December 15th, 2012
6:15 pm

td – 5:54

15 to 20% of all pregnacies end in spontaneous abortion.

That means that thousands of these happen every day.

The Bible says that God knows even when a sparrow falls.

So, he must know about all these miscarragies.

Have you complained to God today about all these mass killings?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
6:16 pm

If we have trained people in these schools that have the ability to protect against catastrophic violence of this nature, then the odds of multiple deaths goes way down…

If that were really the case, then we wouldn’t have a single military casualty, would we? Are they not highly trained in combat and dealing with catastrophic violence?

td

December 15th, 2012
6:17 pm

RF

December 15th, 2012
6:06 pm

I am not justifying the mass murder yesterday because there is no justification for it and it is a horrible crime.

I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people like you that will condone abortion at the same time you cry for murdered children at 6 or 7 years old.

Here is a link to the statistics and before you blast the source you should see that they have the CDC data which is where I got my numbers from.
http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/u-s-abortion-statistics-by-year-1973-current-1042

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
6:17 pm

There is no “need” for me to own a $70 bottle of rum, but so what if I do.

Really?

The most expensive bottle of rum I ever owned was around $50 and it was Casa Bacardi and I haven’t seen a bottle of that in years.

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:18 pm

pogo
@ 6:10

And, again, Sir, amen.

George Watson

December 15th, 2012
6:18 pm

I am always amused by the people who say there is nothing that can be done. Or by the ones who say the only solution is to give everyone a gun and hope for the best. There is no doubt that the guns and access to them are only a symptom of the larger problem of how we sanction violence in our culture. But it is an important symptom – and one that needs dealing with along with all the other symptoms and causes.

Regarding what we can do to change the culture of violence, let us remember we changed our culture of smoking, we are changing our culture that sanctioned drinking and driving, and we should not now find it difficult to change a culture that glorifies the horror of taking someone’s life. All that is required for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

the cat

December 15th, 2012
6:19 pm

td-where was your god when kids were being shot down yesterday?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
6:19 pm

There is no “need” for me to own a $70 bottle of rum, but so what if I do.

If you do own it, you’d better share it bro!!!! Don’t bogart the booze!!!!

:)

the cat

December 15th, 2012
6:22 pm

td
December 15th, 2012
5:45 pm

the cat

December 15th, 2012
5:38 pm

It is easier to buy a gun than it is to adopt a puppy. Sad but true.

It is easier to kill an unborn child then it is to buy a gun or to adopt a puppy.

I don’t have a problem with this, you do.

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:26 pm

SID

And so, like so many of our detractors and critics from abroad, you make your sweeping assertions and then go off satisfied in your smug superiority. I ask you, though, and not knowing your country, has the “stupid” American ever pulled your country’s chestnuts from the fire?

There have been many occasions when the rest of the more highly “civilized” world was grateful to have the wild and wooly barbarians on their side…

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
6:28 pm

Great post by GW at 6:18.

Clearly we have something other than a “well regulated militia” in this country.

I am becoming intrigued with the idea of administering tests to own firearms much the way we do for driver’s licenses and other requirements.

Could these be used in the battle to keep the emotionally/mentally unstable/incompetent people from obtaining them through legal channels?

It is risky, but the reward could be commensurate.

We need new ideas to combat the “do nothing; it is all hopeless” talk…

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
6:31 pm

JamVet
I am becoming intrigued with the idea of administering tests to own firearms much the way we do for driver’s licenses and other requirements.

Could these be used in the battle to keep the emotionally/mentally unstable/incompetent people from obtaining them through legal channels?
…………………………………………………………………….
It doesn’t keep them out of cars….or taxis, I hear.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
6:31 pm

Nobody is trying to deprive sane people from having guns, it would be nice to try to ensure that you are sane before you get it. A little moderation and thinking would do us good.

But for my attack on liberals.

You may not know it but you would take the cons argument away from us if you would treat criminals like criminals instead of looking for what made them do it. If they kill someone they should be killed. If they rape they should be sterilized.

You spend way to much time excusing what they did instead of preventing them from doing it again.

Kill those who pray on us and we will have no need for guns in our homes

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:32 pm

ZamVet

“I am becoming intrigued with the idea of administering tests to own firearms much the way we do for driver’s licenses…”

And you think that licensing process has got the wackos off the streets? I know where you live. Go down to Clairmont and Buford for a few minutes and then get back with me on that argument :-)

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
6:34 pm

“I am becoming intrigued with the idea of administering tests to own firearms much the way we do for driver’s licenses and other requirements”

it might come to that, but if it does I would include EVERYONE in the family over the age of 6. Because the putative owner is not going to be the only one with access if there are other family memberes. And even a 6 year old child can point and fire a gun if it’s small and light enough.

Though that could be amended based on the weapons involved. The bigger and heavier they are, the older you could change the requirement.

deegee

December 15th, 2012
6:35 pm

Maybe we should start by taking away the stigma of mental illness. Parents shouldn’t be so ashamed of having a mentally disturbed child that they pretend that the child is okay. We should be spending at least as much money on treating the mentally ill as we are spending on football and baseball stadiums.

That Black Guy

December 15th, 2012
6:37 pm

Kam and Bro, couldn’t bring myself to buy it at the time. If I see it again, it’s mine.

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:38 pm

deegee
@ 6:35

Yes.

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:41 pm

al SHARIFF

I know that our stupid American laws protecting our privacy and freedom of speech won’t allow you to do it, but would that you could let us in on which is Sid’s country…

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
6:42 pm

“Parents shouldn’t be so ashamed of having a mentally disturbed child that they pretend that the child is okay”

But that brings the discussion around to healthcare. Yes, too many parents hide from themselves that their child has problems…but also too many parents do that because they can’t afford the cost of treatment, so they pretend the problem doesn’t exist.

That Black Guy

December 15th, 2012
6:43 pm

Ok, krew.

Going to a birthday party for my brother.

56yrs old, former crackhead.

He’s looking good, doing good, and I love him and I want him to know it.

Taking him to the Falcons/Giants game tomorrow (go Giants).

Hug your kids/nieces/nephews/grands/godbabies.

josef

December 15th, 2012
6:44 pm

DOGGONE

@ 5:42

That, too.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
6:46 pm

That Black Guy

I’ve been trying to get Fred to come across on a bottle of JW Blue he’s been sitting on.

He hates Scotch.

The GOV

December 15th, 2012
6:56 pm

Strange, I tend to agree with pogo, That Black Guy and Brocephus. I guess it’s not really strange but their post seem to reflect mine. I’m still trying to get my head around it. The heart break seems too much this time around. Will this be forgotten in a week or two?

I think the president made a statement that has to be heeded.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
6:58 pm

TBG

Keep a brother in mind when you buy that bottle!!! Enjoy the party.

:)

————————-

Just saw an interesting stat on ABC Nightly News. Said that, since 1982, 3/4 of the guns used in mass shootings were all legally purchased.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
6:59 pm

Well two defeatists from the get go have weighed in!

OK, then. Let’s do nothing and party on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLpFMDmBo9s

deegee

December 15th, 2012
7:02 pm

Treating the mentally ill is expensive and challenging. Look at how we treat our PTSD veterans. You can’t just give them a pill and you can’t institutionalize them forever. Caring for a family member with a mental disorder is extremely stressful. Maybe we need day care centers for mental patients like we have day care centers for the young and the elderly.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:09 pm

” But in the meantime, disarming the general public isn’t a bad idea.”

It’s a terrible idea unless you advocate for disarming freedom and eliminating personal responsibility/accountability and instituting an authoritarian form of government.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
7:11 pm

Degree,

That’s more BS. Our kids are dying. If we want more sensitivity for mental illness that’s fine, we can sympathize all you like, when we visit them in an insane asylum.

Those who would walk into any place armed to the teeth with the intent on killing us should find no safe refuge, regardless of what they suffer from. While you are being nice they are killing more and more of us.

Bro,

You are in law enforcement as I am.

Do you feel safe that we have done what we need to to prevent or diminish the nut jobs with guns.

I cannot tell you how many nuts I have taken guns from. we are taught to follow the process. Take the gun, take them to jail let a court find them insane, send them to a hospital and then get out on meds years later. Only to wonder the streets once again. Hoping they keep taking the meds.

As a cop I see no useful purpose for these harsh drug laws that punish social users and fill up our jails while we have tho place to put the truly insane people in our society. We need to be protected from the crazed not the 22 year old holding a bag of weed.

I know that you you would agree, from your experience, the constitution we swore to is flawed in its application to modern times.

With that said we must make a decision within our society. It gets big billing that a military type firearm was used but I will tell you. The gun used only shoots one bullet per trigger pull. There is no difference between it and a handgun as far As death rate. It is already illegal to convert a semi auto to full auto. had he had shot all the kids with a pistol he would have gotten the same result. One trigger pull one bullet. A commonly used Glock pistol carries up to 16 rounds per mag. If he had one Glock and three magazines he would have had 45 rounds at his disposal, twice the number of kids he killed.

Before I forget. How much would you like to bet that had this idiot not killed himself the government would have tested him, he would have been found insane and we would have had liberal philosophy take over. The idea that we should treat the killer rather then kill him.

Our system is insane and we have outlawed reasoned thinking !

josef

December 15th, 2012
7:14 pm

Mama Says said earlier…

“I find myself in a debate with my own side.”

I would suggest in all due respect that you (we) are in a debate with ourselves. And that, I think, is a good thing and where we should be going here.

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:16 pm

Have any of you ever played “Spot the Glenn Beck listener” on this blog? It’s actually a lot of fun.

God rest the souls of those children and adults.

Gun control NOW. Not tomorrow, but NOW.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:17 pm

Our society of political correctness has caused us to excuse or ignore antisocial behaviors and in fact even celebrate it as normalcy that we should accept or at least be apathetic toward. In that respect we’re all culpable for tragedies like Sandy Hook.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:19 pm

“Gun control NOW. Not tomorrow, but NOW”

We have gun control already. Didn’t do much to prevent this tragedy, now did it?

td

December 15th, 2012
7:19 pm

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:16 pm

What type of “gun control” is going to stop this killing?

josef

December 15th, 2012
7:20 pm

Mama Says…

I shoulda knowed you was a cop…lock ‘em all up and throw away the key… :-)

More seriously and more respectfully, though, knowing that lends the necessary perspective to follow much of what you are saying…

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:20 pm

“Our society of political correctness has caused us to excuse or ignore antisocial behaviors”

and what behaviors are those, and what would you do about them?

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:23 pm

TD

Let’s try this scenario:

Woman: “Hi, I’m a school teacher, I’d like to purchase a Bushmaster .223 and a few handguns, since it is my Constitutional right to do so.”

Salesperson: “No.”

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:24 pm

Doggone

Nope, it sure did not. So time to go further and get more restrictive. What’s hard to understand here?

Thomas

December 15th, 2012
7:25 pm

Guns are a side line issue. We are are an over prescribed country.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:26 pm

“Salesperson: “No.””

And then the business gets sued, the sales person gets fired, and the teacher walks awa with her guns and a tidy bit of cash to go with them.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
7:26 pm

Salesperson: “No.”

Fantasy land scenario.

td

December 15th, 2012
7:28 pm

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:23 pm

TD

Let’s try this scenario:

Woman: “Hi, I’m a school teacher, I’d like to purchase a Bushmaster .223 and a few handguns, since it is my Constitutional right to do so.”

Salesperson: “No.”

Woman: I have never committed a crime as my background check says, I am not a convicted felon and I do not have any mental disorder. Under what laws are you restricting my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:28 pm

“Nope, it sure did not. So time to go further and get more restrictive. What’s hard to understand here?”

Such as?

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
7:31 pm

No gun control laws would have prevented this tragedy.
No mental incompetence laws would have prevented this tragedy.
Only better protection at the school could have prevented this tragedy.

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:31 pm

Yeah that crazy fantasy world where the most developed country on Earth has a reasonable gun-related homicide rate per capita. Loonyville, right?

“But thurrr taykin mahhh cunnntreeeee” I can hear it from here. Put your big boy pants on. Time to get serious about the issue. Americans continually $*#@ up the concept of “Freedom.” Time to take some of it away. I know it’ll kill you inside a little. The good news? It won’t ACTULLY kill you, like those children.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:32 pm

“and what behaviors are those, and what would you do about them?”

How about gangster rap music glorifying violence, violent video games, violence in movies and on television and a society that either supports it, condones it or is apathetic toward it. What can be done about it? The media could speak out against it and a sensible level of censorship. Oh, and another would be for politicians in government to discontinue publicizing details of military operations that should remain top secret.

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:33 pm

TD:

Under the common sense philosophy that says If you spend the majority of your time reading The Cat in the Hat and coloring with grade schoolers, you don’t need these. I couldn’t give 2 shakes about what you want.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
7:33 pm

TD,

As a conservative would you support the background currently required including a mental health check ? I mean where a doctor interviews you and renders a verdict.

We now have the ability to evaluate by a simple test or questionaire.

This could be taken when you complete your background info, reviewed by a professional and approved within weeks. You could get your gun after the review.

The catch here is that gun ownership would also require the passing of a safety course and that you yourself would be held legally responsible if your gun is used in a crime.

We currently have a Party to the Crime law on our books. The gun owner should be eligible for punishment up to half the sentence which would be given to the actual offender.

In other words you would pass a criminal background check, a mental health check and safety course before possessing a gun. You then would be subject to the law should you not secure your gun and it ends up being used in a crime.

If your gun was used to rob a store, and it wasnt taken from you by forceful theft you would be subject to 5 years in jail. Since in Georgia using a gun in an armed robbery is an automatic 10 years the fact that you didn’t lock it up should get you half of that sentence.

God help you if you fail to secure your gun and its used in a murder.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
7:34 pm

Do you feel safe that we have done what we need to to prevent or diminish the nut jobs with guns.

I think that’s an impossible task to accomplish. Think about the old movie “Falling Down” with Michael Douglas. In that movie, he was a defense contractor who simply snapped. There’s almost no way to predict something of that nature as opposed to someone who’s displayed signs of mental illness through their lifetime. I’ve resigned myself to the notion that we will always have these incidents, and the only recourse is to teach people how to get the hell out of dodge when all hell breaks loose.

know that you you would agree, from your experience, the constitution we swore to is flawed in its application to modern times.

I don’t think it’s the Constitution that’s flawed. The flaws come from the modern legislators who are no longer statesmen but merely puppets for special interest groups who have their own agendas to suit their needs as opposed to having elected officials who put the interests of America and Americans first.

Before I forget. How much would you like to bet that had this idiot not killed himself the government would have tested him, he would have been found insane and we would have had liberal philosophy take over. The idea that we should treat the killer rather then kill him.

Had he been arrested alive and found to be insane, then the laws dictate his pathway for punishment, not some liberal philosophy. We are a nation of laws and not of liberal or conservative policy ideas.

I think there are many outdated laws and such. It’s not your or my job to re-write the legislation though. Our job is to enforce the laws as written, passed, and signed into law by those who are supposed to govern wisely. That said, it severly handicaps us at our jobs when those who are supposed to govern fail to do their job.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:35 pm

“How about gangster rap music glorifying violence, violent video games, violence in movies and on television and a society that either supports it, condones it or is apathetic toward it”

Those are not behaviors. YOU said behaviors…WHAT behaviors and what would you do about them?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
7:36 pm

Loonyville, right?

You offered no reason for the school teacher to fail the background check.

Your scenario: loonyville, right.

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:37 pm

Doggone

Such as tests that are so taxing and difficult to pass that they are prohibitive in their very nature, such as shrinking the market to make access extremely difficult. Such as the elimination of gun shows and websites that are essentially Craigslist for guns. Such as penalties SO punitive that one convicted of a gun-related crime wouldn’t see daylight for decades.

Before you start, I KNOW there are millions of guns already out there. We aren’t putting that genie back in the bottle, but since when has that been a good reason to not try?

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:38 pm

Kamchak

Under my scenario she wouldn’t even get to the background check stage before being turned away.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:40 pm

Those are not behaviors. YOU said behaviors…

They influence anti-social behaviors and I’ve offered my suggestions as where we might start.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:40 pm

“Had he been arrested alive and found to be insane, then the laws dictate his pathway for punishment”

Yes….but I have one opinion that fits in here. I am not a fan of the “not guilty by reason of insanity” finding. Sane or insane, if it’s proven the person did the crime they are guilty. I would prefer a “guilty, but insane” finding. That states more clearly what happened AND the state of the person who did the deed. And it makes it easier to keep them incarcerated, if their crime warrants it. But also idicates they need treatment.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:40 pm

“Such as tests that are so taxing and difficult to pass that they are prohibitive in their very nature”

Such as?

josef

December 15th, 2012
7:41 pm

BROSEPHUS

“Falling Down…” An excellent film. Perhaps now would be a good time for me to revisit it.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:41 pm

“They influence anti-social behaviors and I’ve offered my suggestions as where we might start”

And you STILL can’t provide examples of the behaviors you think we need to get under control.

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
7:43 pm

“Our society of political correctness has caused us to excuse or ignore antisocial behaviors”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Political Correctness is based upon the concept that “language represents thought, and may even control thought.

The only thing that can control thought is people.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
7:44 pm

josef,

I have seen many dead people. This includes adults as well as kids. There is simply no excuse for our society standing by holding onto an old constitutional attempt to possess our guns in fear of government suppression while our kids die using the very instrument we continually say gives us our freedom.

I am a member of government, I understand the potential abuse of its power, dare say I have witnesses the abuse in action. That abuse can be controlled without storming the streets with guns.

My experience has shown me that law abiding people are law abiding by virtue of there morals and ethics. Those who lack those virtues will threaten us regardless of the weapon of choice. We should not make it easier for those who would, to kill us.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:46 pm

“”And you STILL can’t provide examples of the behaviors you think we need to get under control.”

How about breaking into schools and murdering innocent children and their teachers as an example of anti-social behavior. I’d include an LOL for your question but it’s no laughing matter.

Scuba Steve

December 15th, 2012
7:47 pm

Doggone

Don’t have all those answers yet. What I do know is we’ve wasted valuable time coming up with them for the sake of playing the “But it’s my riiiiiiight” game.

Tell you what though, give me…3 months to research it. In the meantime, we’ll suspend all firearm sales in the U.S. in the interest of safety. Think that’ll stick?

Of course not, cuz it isn’t about safety. The NRA knows what many in this country have figured out — paranoia puts plenty of food on their tables.

bman.

December 15th, 2012
7:47 pm

action-packed thriller at 8PM on TNT tonight…name of the movie = Shooter!

what’s the topic tonight?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
7:49 pm

Doggone @ 7:40

Sounds logical to me.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:49 pm

“How about breaking into schools and murdering innocent children and their teachers as an example of anti-social behavior. I’d include an LOL for your question but it’s no laughing matter”

And those are already illegal behaviors. You didn’t say illegal…you said anti-social. So WHAT anti-social behaviors do you think we need to get under control and how would you do it?

td

December 15th, 2012
7:50 pm

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
7:33 pm

Under your theory of Party to the Crime law and guns then why should this not also be extended to drug dealers that sell or give drugs to people that then go and commit crimes? How about people that loan their cars to people that have been drinking and that person goes out and hits someone?

If you really want to test your theory of responsibility then parents should be held half accountable for anything their children do because they are ultimately responsible for their children’s actions as much as the gun owner is responsible for his/her gun under your theory.

josef

December 15th, 2012
7:50 pm

MAMA

With all due respect, and please don’t take this the wrong way, but we are all influenced by our jobs. Those of us in the public sector are especially so. You are involved in an area which sees life at its worst. I am involved in an area where I see life at its best. You become overly pessimistic. I become overly idealistic. We are both right. We are both wrong.

Should we be listened to? Yes. Should we be heeded? Probably not. Neither of us is particularly realistic.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:51 pm

We should not make it easier for those who would, to kill us

Lets not make it more difficult to kill them

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:51 pm

“Tell you what though, give me…3 months to research it. In the meantime, we’ll suspend all firearm sales in the U.S. in the interest of safety. Think that’ll stick”

No

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:52 pm

Thanks again Bro!

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
7:54 pm

“So WHAT anti-social behaviors do you think we need to get under control and how would you do it?”

You’re attempting to split hairs to hang on to your weak argument but that’s okay.

The Thin Guy

December 15th, 2012
7:54 pm

Back in the 1930s Bonnie and Clyde along with the likes of Machine Gun Kelly had Thompson sub machine guns, Browning Automatic Rifles, Colt 45 pistols, etc. but they didn’t go into theaters, schools, hospitals and just start killing people at random. They killed when they had a reason to. The worst mass killings at an American school involved explosives rather than firearms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

back in 1927. The only effective gun control measure that might work would be to roll the Second Amendment back to the arms available in the Seventeenth Century when it was passed; muzzle loading flintlocks. Or to repeal the Second Amendment. Problem is prohibition with alcohol and drugs hasn’t worked that well. I hate to admit it but I have no answer of how to solve this problem. Neither does anyone else.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
7:54 pm

josef

I’ve gone back and watched it several times in the wake of tragedies like this. I know it’s Hollywood, but it drives home the fact that some people simply snap under pressure without any semblance of mental issues prior to that point. We can’t predict or foresee everything. That’s why it’s always a great idea to have an escape plan for most situations.

Danny Bishop

December 15th, 2012
7:55 pm

Commit a crime with a gun, have a hand removed, outlaw the right to a prosthetic limb for those punished. It sounds ghoulish but it would make the second offense much more difficult and a third offense virtually impossible. It’s not the availability of guns that makes the U. S. the leader, it’s the lack of adequate punishment that deters the criminal. This particular type of event is impossible to predict or stop but we can certainly reduce the number of everyday gun crimes with more effective punishment.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:56 pm

“You’re attempting to split hairs to hang on to your weak argument but that’s okay.”

In other words, you said something that sounds good…but doesn’t mean a damn thing. You DON’T KNOW what anti-social behaviors we need to control. Or, to put it more bluntly – it’s the “someone should do something” argument.

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
7:57 pm

@Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:41 pm
“They influence anti-social behaviors and I’ve offered my suggestions as where we might start”

And you STILL can’t provide examples of the behaviors you think we need to get under control.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold.”

One behavior that needs to change is that of the Survivalists.

Survivalists often acquire a stockpile of weapons that would help them survive a catastrophe.

Like the mother of the Connecticut shooter who was a survivalist.

Her own weapons were used to KILL HER.

Was it WORTH IT?

FEAR: False Evidence Appearing Real.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
7:58 pm

The finding of guilty by a judge or jury means that a defendant’s mind
was able to determine right from wrong and did wrong. An insane
mind cannot determine right from wrong and cannot be guilty.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
7:59 pm

Commit a crime with a gun, have a hand removed, outlaw the right to a prosthetic limb for those punished.

You have to deal with the whole “cruel and unusual punishment” thing in the Constitution when trying to implement such a law. I don’t know of any court that would find such punishment as being Constitutional.

josef

December 15th, 2012
7:59 pm

BROSEPHUS

I’m putting it on my plate…

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
7:59 pm

“This particular type of event is impossible to predict or stop but we can certainly reduce the number of everyday gun crimes with more effective punishment”

So institute a punitive punishment that will do nothing to stop the kind of atrocity that happened yesterday. It’s what I call the “Argus Filch” argument: “I want to see some PUNISHMENT” He didn’t care WHO got punished, as long as SOMEONE did.

catlady

December 15th, 2012
8:01 pm

Well, we are pulling away school services that might provide identification and counseling. We routinely give tacit approval to bullies at school by not holding them accountable–too many lawsuits. We don’t want to “label” a kid. Meanwhile, so many of our kids are angry that they are not getting their “fair share” (Like many of our adults, I might add.) Drugs and alcohol have invaded and taken over many families. There seems to be little safety net for citizens who have mental health problems.

I hurt for these families who have lost their loved ones.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
8:01 pm

I’m not a mental health expert but I’ve heard experts say that recognizing the potential for violent behavior and reversing the predisposition is possible and that many of the mass murders we’ve seen could have been prevented with a more proactive mental health system.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:04 pm

The ideal is to protect life. Ask the family members of the dead if those of us who see the result should not be heeded.

As for cars, TD I am not aware of people being robbed by crooks with dangerous cars. I am not aware of anyone driving a car into a school and killing 27 people as they wore ballistic protective gear. A car is a object with which people traverse back and forth. It is not an object which by its very existence is intended to kill when it is used.

As a conservative I understand what you base your argument on. I can’t understand fighting against a logical response to gun violence or a preventative approach to it.

Bro,

I would never suggest that LEO’s right law. I would suggest that LEO’s be heeded when they speak to the actual violence we see. We should be looked at as experts on the very violence at issue.
By that our legislatures should listen to those who know the result.

If you want to know about war ask a solider, want to know about baking ask a cook want to know about murder and gun violence ask a homicide detective.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:05 pm

I hate to admit it but I have no answer of how to solve this problem. Neither does anyone else.

Absolutely agreed, with one change. I don’t hate to admit it, I love it. Because that is how huge this question is. Those who reduce it – along the other great questions of our times – to simplistic slogans, are the people to be concerned about.

Questions like abortion.

The massive social movements of the 1960s and early 1970s–in particular the movement for women’s liberation–created the context for the Supreme Court to uphold abortion as a constitutional right for women in 1973.

After Roe v. Wade made abortion legal, women’s health improved significantly. Entire wards of hospitals dedicated to aiding women suffering from complications from botched abortions could be devoted to other uses. In New York City, after abortion was legalized in 1970, maternal mortality dropped by 45 percent. Women were finally freed from the terror of the back alley.

Under capitalism, women cannot be equal to men without having control over reproduction. Ultimately, women bear the physical, emotional and financial burden of bearing and raising a child. And women–working-class women in particular–bear a “double burden” of both wage labor at work and domestic labor at home. This dynamic drives the sexism that permeates our society.

Any fundamental challenge to the inequality faced by women must have the struggle for women’s reproductive rights at its core.

http://tinyurl.com/4mb2tnl

josef

December 15th, 2012
8:05 pm

catlady

“We routinely give tacit approval to bullies at school by not holding them accountable–too many lawsuits.”

No. We do not. We confront it each and every time we see it or it is brought to our attention. I know. I work there.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:06 pm

Write law not right law, but you knew

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
8:06 pm

“it’s the “someone should do something” argument.”

Gee Doggone anti-social behavior can result in crimes against society. Is that too difficult to grasp?

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
8:06 pm

o.k. send home a letter to parents from school, each year your child must
be examined by a psychiatrist before he/she can enter school.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:07 pm

“The finding of guilty by a judge or jury means that a defendant’s mind was able to determine right from wrong and did wrong”

yes, and I disagree with it. to me a “guilty” finding should mean the person did the deed. The “but insane” mitigates it and should alter the sentence from punishment to treatment.

Ronald Reagan

December 15th, 2012
8:08 pm

Video games & action movies set the stage for situations like this.

josef

December 15th, 2012
8:08 pm

FROG
@ 8:06

Point.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
8:09 pm

“I have seen many dead people. This includes adults as well as kids. There is simply no excuse for our society standing by holding onto an old constitutional attempt to possess our guns in fear of government suppression while our kids die using the very instrument we continually say gives us our freedom.”

Mama says,

Perhaps your time would be better spent in a campaign to outlaw and ban swimming pools. After all on average many more children die from swimming pools annually than from gun deaths.

As a matter of fact according to this renowned economist who did the numbers children are 100 times more likely to die drowning in a swimming pool than via gun death.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2001/07/27/levittpoolsvsguns/

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:10 pm

Bullying. Another antisocial behavior we no longer cast a completely blind eye to. We have taken the topic on. Good for us.

I know it does not sit well with the gloom and doomers, but lets not forget the great strides we are making as a people. And we are not going back.

td

December 15th, 2012
8:10 pm

All I have heard all day is that we need more laws to make sure this type of thing never happens again. Let us take a minute and look at current laws and what happened yesterday:

Killer shot his mother (1) then stole three of her gun (2,3,4) then stole her truck (5) then illegally transported 3 weapons (5,6,7) then carried them to a school without a carry permit (8,9,10) broke into a school (11) and then carried the guns into a school (12,13,14) then shot 26 other people (15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40)

40 laws broken and none of these laws stopped those poor children from being killed.

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
8:11 pm

@Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
7:44 pm
My experience has shown me that law abiding people are law abiding by virtue of there morals and ethics. Those who lack those virtues will threaten us regardless of the weapon of choice. We should not make it easier for those who would, to kill us.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Listen to your mama!!!

“A people that values its PRIVILEGES above its PRINCIPLES soon loses both.”

“If we are to go forward, we must go back and rediscover those precious values –

that all reality hinges on moral foundations and that all reality has spiritual control.”

josef

December 15th, 2012
8:14 pm

Okay, I can’t say a whole lot about this one, professional ethics at work. But I know of a situation which follows the logic and “do something about it” from the school house. In this particular situation, when I was asked in conference what advice to give the mother, my own comment was, well, not exactly what you think educators are supposed to be saying. “I’d advise her to lock her own bedroom door and bar it with the dresser every night.” I would have outside my professional capacity. Luckily we were at length, and I DO mean at length, able to convince the mother to seek counseling, that it was not her fault, and then, and this was by far and away the most difficult part of the task, find those resources and the funds to pay for them.

Just saying…

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:14 pm

Video games & action movies set the stage for situations like this.

Not exactly. It is their HUGE popularity that drives them.

The old chicken and egg argument.

But if there was no market for such violent filth – and lets be clear, that is what much of it is – it would not sell to the tune of billions of dollars annually.

I do my part to not be part of that market.

I enjoin others to do the same.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:15 pm

Vet,

The difference in reproductive equality that you will not face is that when a man exercises his right to reproduction decisions it is done so by virtue of a simple snip that is performed on him.

When a woman decides on abortion it effects more than just her body.

How a woman can equate an abortion to a mans reproduction decisions is amazing. Now if you wanted to argue that a woman should not have to get pregnant that would be different, but you will never hear a man say that it’s in his reproductive rights not to have a child. It’s impossible.

You are basically saying that you want more rights than a man. Unless of course you are arguing that a man should be able to demand the abortion of his child, regardless of the women’s desire.

Reproduction is by nature a two person thing. Equality means that both donors would have an equal say on the issue. I doubt that you support the right for me to force a women to have an abortion do you ?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:15 pm

“Gee Doggone anti-social behavior can result in crimes against society. Is that too difficult to grasp”

WHAT anti-social behaviors do we need to control, and how would YOU suggest we control them?

Danny Bishop

December 15th, 2012
8:17 pm

If capital punishment is permitted under the 8th amendment, then there should be no problem.
Would this be more cruel than lethal injection?

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
8:18 pm

@td

December 15th, 2012
8:10 pm
All I have heard all day is that we need more laws to make sure this type of thing never happens again. Let us take a minute and look at current laws and what happened yesterday:

Killer shot his mother (1) then stole three of her gun (2,3,4) then stole her truck (5) then illegally transported 3 weapons (5,6,7) then carried them to a school without a carry permit (8,9,10) broke into a school (11) and then carried the guns into a school (12,13,14) then shot 26 other people (15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40)

40 laws broken and none of these laws stopped those poor children from being killed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

YOU ARE so busy doing nothing… that the idea of doing anything -

which as you know, always leads to something – cuts into the nothing

and then forces YOU to have to drop everything.

STOP doing NOTHING and it could LEAD TO SOMETHING.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:22 pm

Yeah right Thulsa,

Lets ban jelly beans also, we know you can choke on them.

Listen people I am telling you the facts. I have investigated many many more shooting deaths than pool drownings. You can make these stupid comparisons if you wish but if you feel like it give me your phone number, I will call you every time we have a gun death. Then you can compare swimming pools to the tragedy that our kids face hourly.

Right now somewhere in each of our metro counties a child has a gun in his hand. Tonight while you sleep at least two of our local police departments will respond to a child related death or shooting.
swimming pools ?

That’s sad

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:23 pm

“STOP doing NOTHING and it could LEAD TO SOMETHING”

and what have YOU done about it?

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:23 pm

I doubt that you support the right for me to force a women to have an abortion do you ?

Hello? Is this thing on? Have you even been reading what I’ve been writing???

You seem confused. Given that you apparently think you can decide what I am “basically saying”.

How about you just talk for yourself for starters and then let’s see what happens, OK?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
8:27 pm

I would suggest that LEO’s be heeded when they speak to the actual violence we see. We should be looked at as experts on the very violence at issue.
By that our legislatures should listen to those who know the result.

I agree with you 100% on that. The biggest problem I see is getting legislators to listen to “government workers” when some of them push the idea of lazy government workers to get them elected into office. You can’t label somebody as worthless one week and then use them for SME testimony a month or two later. We’ve got to change our entire mindset about how we agree and disagree with each other first.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:28 pm

Sorry Jam, tell me what you are saying again please

Black Label

December 15th, 2012
8:31 pm

“That’s sad”

Sums up Thulsa Doom

David

December 15th, 2012
8:32 pm

Ok Jay, let’s suppose your recommendation of requiring training with the purchase of a firearm were law. Let’s also assume that Nancy Lanza had that training and was properly registered, or whatever other regulations you think are required. How would that have prevented her psychotic son from taking her gun and shooter her and all those poor children? It wouldn’t have made a single difference, now would it.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
8:32 pm

Mama Says

Speaking of accidents, have you seen this safety message passed around yet?

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/06/04/soldier-mutilates-hand-by-hitting-50-caliber-round/

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:34 pm

Thank you Mama.

Read my 6:05 again.

There is no going back.

But I’m open to pragmatic suggestions.

(Pragmatism – a philosophical movement or system having various forms, but generally stressing practical consequences as constituting the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value.)

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
8:35 pm

@Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:23 pm
“STOP doing NOTHING and it could LEAD TO SOMETHING”

and what have YOU done about it?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don’t own a gun nor do I want to own a gun.

That is a start.

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death ,
I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.

Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

AMEN

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
8:37 pm

Under my scenario she wouldn’t even get to the background check stage before being turned away.

Yep, Fantasy land scenario.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm

You cons out there want actual con ideas from me. Here is one.

You should have to serve your fellow citizens in some form or fashion.

That service use to be via our military. I suggest that he have a draft once again. This draft should be for mandatory police, fire or paramedic services. I promise when you are done you will not be so worried about your rights to have a gun but rather you will be demanding that we find a way to get guns out of our kids hands. Right now I know of no legal way for a child to get a gun, adults are being irresponsible with them, by virtue of directly giving them to kids or by virtue of not locking them up so they cannot be obtained.

My conservative principals dictate that I protect my kids from all threats. Since we cannot read a nutcases mind and know when he will kill, we must control the guns they are killing with.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm

“I don’t own a gun nor do I want to own a gun”

Neither do I

“AMEN”

So…what have you DONE that, as you said “could LEAD TO SOMETHING”?

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm

You know I’m beginning to wonder if the advent of the loathed designated hitter explains this breakdown in society?

(Sorry, sometimes I just have to laugh to keep from crying…)

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:41 pm

“My conservative principals dictate that I protect my kids from all threats. Since we cannot read a nutcases mind and know when he will kill, we must control the guns they are killing with”

So you prefer the dream world of false security to facing the FACT that you CAN’T “protect my kids from all threats”?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
8:41 pm

You know I’m beginning to wonder if the advent of the loathed designated hitter explains this breakdown in society?

Yes, along with the instant replay, sudden death overtime and coaches challenges.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
8:42 pm

“You can make these stupid comparisons if you wish but if you feel like it give me your phone number, I will call you every time we have a gun death. Then you can compare swimming pools to the tragedy that our kids face hourly.”

How is it stupid? The facts are the facts sir. More children die from swimming pool drownings then gun deaths. And I didn’t even include drownings from lakes, ponds, rivers and streams, or the ocean. Just cause you don’t like it doesn’t make it true. Now the numbers probably change a bit when you you start adding up 16 and 17 year old “children” that are selling drugs, gangbanging, and carrying guns and doing drivebys. But for 10 year olds and under the pool is far more dangerous than ever being shot- and by a wide margin I might add.

“Right now somewhere in each of our metro counties a child has a gun in his hand. Tonight while you sleep at least two of our local police departments will respond to a child related death or shooting.swimming pools ?”

Then try and refute it. You can’t when it comes to small children. When it comes to 15-17 year old “childen” who are doing adult crimes you have a point. But are they really “children” when they’re doing drive by shootings as 17 year olds?

“That’s sad”

No. What’s sad is your inability and the inability of many others to understand that as a society we’ve made choices in life about risk and our rights, Life is not without risk. 45,000 people a year die in auto accidents. Is anyone talking about banning the automobile? No. Why? Because the loss to society is acceptable given the alternative which would be incredible inconvenience and loss of freedom if we banned the car. Same with guns.

Same with alchohol and cigarrettes. Alcohol abuse kills 75,000 Americans per year just via cirrhossis. tobacco kills an estimated 443,000 people a year. Why aren’t you complaining about that?

When the Hutus slaughtered 800,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates in Rwanda the main weapon was thousands of imported machetes and hoes because guns were too expensive. So in Rwanda do they now talk about banning machetes and hoes in a subsistence agrarian state because of what people did?

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
8:43 pm

Mama says
do you support a ban on all guns except for police and military?

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
8:43 pm

I suggest that he have a draft once again. This draft should be for mandatory police, fire or paramedic services.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I would feel bad for anybody who got drafted to become an EMT. I have friends who do that job, and the stories I hear always remind me why I did not follow that career path. I would rather run into a burning building before becoming an EMT.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
8:47 pm

Mama, are you a veteran? (It’s really none of my beeswax and if you don’t answer, I understand.)

Conscription would, of course, be a gigantic mistake. Again, we’ve been there, done that recently. And I as recall, it really didn’t work out so great.

A volunteer service is the way to go…

seabeau

December 15th, 2012
8:49 pm

The Supreme Court rulled years ago that police are not compelled morally or legally to come to a citizens aid if the police think that their lives will be in danger Since all persons have the right of self defence,a total ban on firearms will never pass muster in any legal realm!

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:49 pm

We can protect everyone. As a conservative you should know that our penal system is failing us. If they were in jail or executed they would not be among us to harm us.

Until we really take a tough stance on violent crime crimes will continue to be violent.

It is a fantasy that we are protecting ourselves by having guns everywhere.

Yes you can cite some examples of there proper use but for every one you give I, given time can give you10 in which the gun was of no use or was turned against the owner.

Bro,

We have professionals among us that have issues with proper gun handling techniques. How we excepts the citizens to operate them safely is unknown to me.

josef

December 15th, 2012
8:50 pm

ZamVet

From last night…I never saw you answer and inquiring minds want to know. Do the voices in your head speak Hebrew… :-)

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
8:52 pm

“You should have to serve your fellow citizens in some form or fashion.”

Well when people like you start dictating that we “should have to” serve other citizens then it no longer becomes “serving” because you are then dictating that we have to do something. So when did you decide taking away some of someone’s freedom’s freedom by forcing them “serve” their fellow citizens is okay? Is it because it just jives with your ideology of making them cons do something?

And btw the taxes we pay serves plenty of people in the way of social welfare programs. And many of us voluntarily give to charity in the way of money and time.

“That service use to be via our military. I suggest that he have a draft once again. ” That’s fine but if you will notice many of the cons on here- myself, recon, scout, and many others have already served.

indigo

December 15th, 2012
8:53 pm

Doom – 8:42

I think you’d be happy if we just completely did away with all gun laws.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
8:53 pm

Do the voices in your head speak Hebrew…

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
8:55 pm

So you prefer the dream world of false security to facing the FACT that you CAN’T “protect my kids from all threats”?

Dog, you have been a real trouper defending the rights of freedom loving citizens here over the last 36 hours and I, for one, appreciate it. They’re going to “Do Something”, probably something as asinine as making grandma take her shoes off before she gets on an airliner, but they so need to feel that they did something.

I stayed out of the gun control debates today and instead went toe to toe with the Facebook posters that blamed yesterdays tragedy on the US Supreme Court, Engel v. Vitale (1962). If only God and Jesus weren’t locked out the school, the tragedy would never have happened, was a common theme of the day. God and Jesus should have broke out a window and came on in like the murderous SOB did.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
8:56 pm

Black Label ,

Kook sock puppet.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
8:56 pm

josef
if the voices in jamvets head do not speak hebrew can hebe
a true jew ?

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
8:57 pm

Jam,

I am not, I did loose my stepfather to the Viet Cong.

I cannot address conscription for national war purposes. What do feel is that we lost a lot when we stopped requiring a commitment to our country by our kids. They have no idea of hardship as it applies to national health and prosperity.

They therefore grow up without a connection to the realities that take place daily in our streets.

We have people talking about gun violence who have never seen a gun shot much less the results.

We have to bring empathy to the result of gun violence and stop speaking to it without having seen the result.

I promise after two or three kids even the most harden con would start to ask the question, what the hell are we doing ?

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
8:57 pm

“I think you’d be happy if we just completely did away with all gun laws.”

Indigo,

And why would you think that?

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:58 pm

Thanks gh. Not being a gun enthusiast myself, I never gave gun control much thought either way. Then I started watching “Sons of Guns” and quickly began to realize that their enthusiasm for guns was not so very much different from my enthusiasm for dogs.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
8:58 pm

How we excepts the citizens to operate them safely is unknown to me.

I don’t expect them to myself, but you bring up a point there. That’s why I always stress training and re-training when it comes to weapons.

————————-

josef

:lol: :lol:

josef

December 15th, 2012
8:59 pm

indigo

December 15th, 2012
9:00 pm

Why didn’t you just say “yes, that’s correct, or “no, that’s not correct”?

Your being evasive, just as I knew you would be.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:02 pm

“I have friends who do that job, and the stories I hear always remind me why I did not follow that career path. ”

I have a client who was an EMT and it was at Grady. The stories that man has are nothing short of unreal. And often sad. He made a point of telling me that ya never see EMTs over 50. Why? Burnout. Too much bad shyte that they see.

Victor Midtown

December 15th, 2012
9:02 pm

Shut down the blatantly and unapologetically violent video games.
Movies where the slaughter is deliciously overdone.
We are raising a generation of desensitised kids.
Ban assault weapons.
The gun is not the only problem!!!!

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
9:02 pm

LOL jonix! Only at certain times and occasions.

Like now…

Hanneirot hallalu anachnu madlikin ‘al hannissim ve’al hanniflaot ‘al hatteshu’ot ve’al hammilchamot she’asita laavoteinu bayyamim haheim, (u)bazzeman hazeh ‘al yedei kohanekha hakkedoshim. Vekhol-shemonat yemei Hanukkah hanneirot hallalu kodesh heim, ve-ein lanu reshut lehishtammesh baheim ella lir’otam bilvad kedei lehodot ul’halleil leshimcha haggadol ‘al nissekha ve’al nifleotekha ve’al yeshu’otekha.

We light these lights for the miracles and the wonders, for the redemption and the battles that you made for our forefathers, in those days at this season, through your holy priests. During all eight days of Hanukkah these lights are sacred, and we are not permitted to make ordinary use of them except for to look at them in order to express thanks and praise to Your great Name for Your miracles, Your wonders and Your salvations.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
9:03 pm

josef

Your question to JamVet brought to mind something I told a passenger one day. The lady walked up to me and complimented me as the first custom’s officer she had ever encountered in the airport that was smiling. Without skipping a beat, I told her that I was smiling because the voices in my head were telling me jokes that I could actually understand because most of the time they spoke Spanish and I couldn’t understand what they were saying. The expression on her face was priceless when she heard what I said. When I told her I was joking, she laughed real hard and said she was going to have to do that one to her friends and such.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
9:03 pm

“Shut down the blatantly and unapologetically violent video games.
Movies where the slaughter is deliciously overdone”

What are parents for?

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm

Thulsa,

Your contributions don’t mean crap to a dead kid. So on this issue you can just keep your money.

How many dead kids have you seen ? How many with a bullet in their head ? or the results thereof? I seek to protect society from idiots, of which you may be one to watch. To make stupid statements had been my domain alone but I must admit you are trying hard to unseat me.

Every person employed in all our government services are searing you and all others trying to keep you safe. To call me a dictator without a clue of what you speak is the very problem with this country.

By the way try giving me am answer to he violence rather than condemning me for trying.

I would love to see you in south west Atlanta by yourself at midnight.

Just sit back and the people you have serving you will clean them up off the streets so you can hide by your swimming pool sucking your mint tulip

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm

Indigo,

I’ve no problem with reasonable gun laws. After all I don’t want people like Timothy Mcveigh to be able to buy heat seeking missiles to take down jetliners. Why do you think I would oppose reasonable and prudent gun laws.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm

How is it stupid? The facts are the facts sir. More children die from swimming pool drownings then gun deaths.

Thulsa: They are all about taking away the rights of others to engage in activities they don’t like.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm

He made a point of telling me that ya never see EMTs over 50. Why? Burnout. Too much bad shyte that they see.

Yep.

Victor Midtown

December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm

If you think parents can effectively lock down their kids from societal influences, you’re mistake. They should and most do. But many do not.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm

By the way Thulsa did you get a permit or permission to fill your swimming pool up ?

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:07 pm

Thanks gh.

Don’t get that much here. I’m framing it. ;)

josef

December 15th, 2012
9:09 pm

ZamVet

Yep. Here, too. They tried to kill us. We survived. Let’s eat!

BROSEPHUS

I’ve got to remember that one! :-)

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
9:09 pm

Mama, sorry about your stepdad.

Patriotism seems a mysterious thing, doesn’t it?

Forcing people to be patriotic (by serving in uniform, for example) or celibate or “straight” seems folly to me.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
9:11 pm

godless: Dog, you have been a real trouper defending the rights of freedom loving citizens here over the last 36 hours and I, for one, appreciate it.

It’s interesting around here when you actually pay attention to what people say as opposed to instinctively broad brushing them, huh? Hope you didn’t treat them too bad on Facebook.

;)

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:11 pm

Forcing people to be patriotic (by serving in uniform, for example) or celibate or “straight” seems folly to me.

Word.

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
9:12 pm

Thanks Jam,

Best man and father figure I ever had.

As for service I just want people to see what they talk about

Mama Says

December 15th, 2012
9:13 pm

Good night all

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:14 pm

Hope you didn’t treat them too bad on Facebook.

Of course not. They were “friends” after all. Sometimes, you just have to point out to folks that not everyone believes the same things that they do.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
9:14 pm

As has so often been the case, Doom’s “facts” are wrong:

The latest data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that 3,184 children and teens died from gunfire in the United States in 2006—a 6 percent increase from 2005.
http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/protect-children-not-guns-report-2009.html

In 2006, approximately 1100 US children younger than 20 years died from drowning
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/e253

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:17 pm

“How many dead kids have you seen ? How many with a bullet in their head ? or the results thereof?”

And how is that relevant? Its not.

” I seek to protect society from idiots, of which you may be one to watch. ”

Why? Because you don’t like my free speech. That’s quite a fascist statement there buddy.

“To make stupid statements had been my domain alone but I must admit you are trying hard to unseat me.”

Naw. You’re still comfortably ahead. Wayyyyyy ahead.

“Every person employed in all our government services are searing you and all others trying to keep you safe. ”

Yes. My brother is one of them as a colonel who has been to Iraq and in both wars.

“To call me a dictator without a clue of what you speak is the very problem with this country.”

Well if the shoe fits. When you start declaring what people “should have to do” because it fits your ideology then that’s quite dictatorial. How is it not?

“By the way try giving me am answer to he violence rather than condemning me for trying.”

There is no answer to a madman gone nuts. As for the regular violence you see in sw Atlanta there is going to have to be a change in the culture of the people that live there before you’ll see an improvement. And I can’t do that. They have to do it themselves.

“I would love to see you in south west Atlanta by yourself at midnight.”

Been down there plenty of times. And at night. I have clients down there. And years and years back I worked part time for a friend’s business cleaning carpets at Wendy’s franchises. The one down near Greenbriar mall area and another one over near Morehouse I think it was. I was often there by myself, after midnight.

“Just sit back and the people you have serving you will clean them up off the streets so you can hide by your swimming pool sucking your mint tulip”

Sounds like you either don’t like your job or you think everyone that disagrees with you is a mint tulip sucking country club Republican. My suggestion is 2 fold- 1- quit your damn job if you don’t like it and 2- quit making such sweeping judgments about people you know nothing about their life’s experiences.

josef

December 15th, 2012
9:17 pm

FROG

Unmentionable says to tell you, yep. They tried to remove us. We’re still here. Let’s eat! :-)

I have posted this before, but that was one of the songs they sang as they set off on the Trail, bidding farewell to their homes…

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:19 pm

3,184 children and teens died from gunfire

And how many were gang-bangers?

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
9:20 pm

josef
the language of the uncivilized in a song of the civilized….

Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 15th, 2012
9:21 pm

@Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
“I don’t own a gun nor do I want to own a gun”

Neither do I

“AMEN”

So…what have you DONE that, as you said “could LEAD TO SOMETHING”?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I GOT YOUR ATTENTION!!!!!

“The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”

GOOD NIGHT

indigo

December 15th, 2012
9:22 pm

doom – 9:20

Because, like so many others here, you’ve been stressing how dangerous things besides guns are. Reading between the lines, I don’t you’d have much of a problem with no gun laws period.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:24 pm

In Chapter 5 of Freakonomics, which explores the art and science of parenting, we pose this question: Which is more dangerous, a gun or a swimming pool? It turns out that far more children die each year in swimming pool accidents than in gun incidents.

It’s referenced in the book.

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
9:24 pm

“I GOT YOUR ATTENTION!!!!!”

sorry, you had nothing to do with it

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:26 pm

“As has so often been the case, Doom’s “facts” are wrong”

Nope. I told him that children and specifically children under 10 as my article points out are at far greater risk of drowning in a pool than dying by gun.

Now allow me to help you out with you failure in critical reading and critical thinking skills. Your link mentions children and teens and includes 18 and 19 year olds in its analysis. So my question to you is this. Are 18 and 19 year olds “children” or adults??? Try again.

josef

December 15th, 2012
9:26 pm

FROG

Another message from the Un…what’s with this “uncivilized? We were civilized, don’t you know. And look at what that got us!”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8ETyOcDCE

:-)

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:29 pm

Your link mentions children and teens and includes 18 and 19 year olds in its analysis.

And how many of those were using a gun themselves at the time of their unfortunate “accident”?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
9:29 pm

Nope. It’s too foolish to even address further. Pure buffoonery

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:30 pm

“Reading between the lines, I don’t you’d have much of a problem with no gun laws period.”

Indigo,

And you’re failing miserably in your quest to read minds. I don’t own a gun, i never have and probably never will. I don’t really care for owning one and I will never, ever own a handgun. They’re fun to shoot but I don’t want one in the house- particulary a handgun. I might get a rifle at some point just to go out on my property and shoot bottles and cans but that’s about it. And it would be a wimpy little rifle even if i do that.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:33 pm

I see I hammered keep yet again by pointing out that 18 and 19 year olds are not “children”. And what’s his response? Some muttering about buffoonery after I nailed him to the wall.

B

O

O

M

!

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
9:37 pm

People are trying to address tragic deaths and all you can do is post pure stupidity. You are a sad sad little boy Doom.

Repro

December 15th, 2012
9:39 pm

“Ban automatic weapons and an underground market will appear for them”.
This is a false argument being perpetrated by the gun proponents.
Reality shows that in the countries with gun bans, this has definitely not occurred. Ban the auto and semi-auto guns and they will become unavailable, period.

flagboy?

December 15th, 2012
9:40 pm

Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm

I seek to protect society from idiots
_______________________________________

There is no protection that exists for that.

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
9:40 pm

It’s time for me to bail out. The testosterone meter is red lining like something vicious here right about now. Y’all enjoy your pissing contest this evening, and be thankful that you’re alive to engage in it.

Later!!

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
9:40 pm

josef
i know, the uncivilized meshed well with the civilized. It was
the civilized that could not accept the blend and were in the
end the epitome of uncivilized.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:41 pm

“People are trying to address tragic deaths and all you can do is post pure stupidity.”

The rantings of a pissed off lib whose argument just got laid to waste.

josef

December 15th, 2012
9:41 pm

Well, the good news is, after a day of soul searching, we’re back to something resembling normalcy here on Big Daddy’s veranda…cat fighting, nyah-nyanh, I won, and a lot of smilies…and, maybe that is a good thing…

Doggone/GA

December 15th, 2012
9:44 pm

“This is a false argument being perpetrated by the gun proponents”

Three words: Norway teens massacre

td

December 15th, 2012
9:45 pm

Instead of this debate about gun control we should all be celebrating this hero from yesterday.

Please forgive my Jay for posting the entire story but I think this one is worth it.

“Among the eight adults murdered yesterday along with the twenty school children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. was 27-year-young teacher Victoria Soto.

Victoria Soto will be forever remembered as a teacher who gave her life by shielding her first grade students from Adam Lanza’s gunfire with her own body.

Miss Soto taught at the school for 5 years and was remembered by one distraught 10-year-old former student as ‘really nice and funny’ according to Mail Online.

Soto’s cousin, Jim Wiltsie, told media that the teacher was shielding students and ushering them into a classroom closet “when she came face to face with the gunman. “

‘She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed,’ Mr Wiltsie said.

I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm,’ he continued.

‘It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero,’ he added.

It seems that Miss Soto was also sort of a young rebel in the classroom. She reportedly enjoyed chewing gum in class, which is something not normally allowed for teachers. Her students often teased her about the habit; and she playfully teased them back.

One of her young students, Jacob Riley, said that Victoria Soto was well-liked by all the students at Sandy Hook Elementary.

Most of the children killed were between the ages of 5 through 10, and were found in two classrooms.

Rest in peace Victoria Soto. Thank you.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/27-year-old-teacher-victoria-soto-died-shielding-students-with-her-own-body

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
9:47 pm

Doom, why don’t you take your constant jackassery and trot along like the childish little boy you are. You cannot handle adult discussion or anything with intelligence it is clear.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:47 pm

td,

That was a heartwarming story of bravery and sacrifice. May Victoria Soto walk with God.

josef

December 15th, 2012
9:48 pm

FROG

I’ve been reassessing that of late, that is the blending. The more I look at it, the more I realize that that blending is fundamental to the Southern cultural uniqueness. It was by the time of the Removals, I think, a contest between two equally civilized nations over territory in a geopolitical sense abd in keeping with the general train of Western Civilization at the time.

td

December 15th, 2012
9:49 pm

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
9:14 pm

As has so often been the case, Doom’s “facts” are wrong:

The latest data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that 3,184 children and teens died from gunfire in the United States in 2006—a 6 percent increase from 2005.
http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/protect-children-not-guns-report-2009.html

In 2006, approximately 1100 US children younger than 20 years died from drowning
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/e253

And 2000 children were murdered today by their mothers and progressives just say so what.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
9:50 pm

josef
i loved that portrayal and the chief looks like my grandpa except he
never wore a tophat or long hair…

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
9:50 pm

The rantings of a pissed off lib whose argument just got laid to waste

D
O
O
M

B
O
O
M

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:56 pm

“Doom, why don’t you take your constant jackassery and trot along like the childish little boy you are. ”

Why don’t you just scroll past me? I don’t know why but you always come on, read my posts, and begin a tit for tat. You do it constantly. If you don’t like jackassery then why do you constantly start it with me?

“You cannot handle adult discussion or anything with intelligence it is clear”

Sez the poster who came on looking for a fight with me.

Is this your idea of and adult discussion with intelligence?

“As has so often been the case, Doom’s “facts” are wrong:”

“Nope. It’s too foolish to even address further. Pure buffoonery”

“…and all you can do is post pure stupidity. You are a sad sad little boy Doom.”

“Doom, why don’t you take your constant jackassery and trot along like the childish little boy you are”

josef

December 15th, 2012
9:57 pm

FROG

Looks like Unmentionable’s grandpa, too! Say what one will of Clint Eastwood, the boy knows his history. A lot of people don’t know it, but he’s of Cherokee descent himself and always held firm on the respectful and accurate presentation of the Indians in his films. .

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
9:58 pm

josef
i agree with that except the Cherokee did not stress the separation until
their land was almost lost and then it was too late. Their sovereignty was
compromised by treaty wording when they were not familiar with English.
They should not have blended but they did. But we are still here.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
9:58 pm

godless heathen,

In all fairness I have to give you an assist on the B O O M by backing it up with a second source. I’m still waiting to see if keep up the sorry fight can figure out that 18 and 19 year olds are not children.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
9:59 pm

On Friday, police in Bartlesville, Oklahoma arrested an 18-year-old high school student who was planning a school-shooting massacre plot. Sammie Eaglebear Chavez “tried to recruit other students to assist him with carrying out a plan to lure students into the school auditorium where he planned to begin shooting them after chaining the doors shut.”

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
9:59 pm

2000 murdered today?

statspulledoutofyourass.com

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
10:00 pm

josef
I don’t think my grandpa spoke as many words in his entire life
as the chief did in that film.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
10:02 pm

Brosephus™

December 15th, 2012
8:32 pm

Ouch. That’s going to leave a mark.

td

December 15th, 2012
10:03 pm

“Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren’t renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.”

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure

td

December 15th, 2012
10:06 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
9:59 pm

2000 murdered today?

statspulledoutofyourass.com

Only because you are a progressive and have dehumanized life to the point that you do not consider abortion as murder.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
10:07 pm

And 2000 children were murdered today by their mothers and progressives just say so what.

Notwithstanding the intentional lie of using the word murder, so do MANY Republicans. You can look it up.

Ask yourself this, how many of those women were the wives, girlfriends, daughters, nieces, aunts and mothers of Republicans?

Should we round them all up, td?

Maybe make them wear a large red A in public?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
10:11 pm

…abortion as murder.

“Murder” is a legal definition.

Abortion is a legal procedure, therefore by definition it cannot be “murder.”

I understand that you consider abortions abhorrent, but you do not get to use made up definitions.

td

December 15th, 2012
10:15 pm

jam and Kam, Since you do not like the word murder according to a technical definition under current US law (It is still murder under Gods law). How about the word taking the life of the innocent or killing another human life, Does that make you feel better?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2012
10:16 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
10:18 pm

jam and Kam, Since you do not like the word murder according to a technical definition under current US law…

You still don’t get it, sport.

It doesn’t matter what I like or dislike, it’s about you making sh*t up.

You make sh*t up, you get called on it.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
10:18 pm

Does that make you feel better?

Yes it does, Now be so kind as to answer my questions from 10:07.

i.e. what are you going to do with these women after you successfully make abortion illegal?

It’s a reasonable question.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
10:23 pm

Keep make sh*t up, he get called on it.

td

December 15th, 2012
10:23 pm

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
10:18 pm

I am not going to do nothing with them. Can not do anything legally because the law is what it is today. Kind of like what did the country do with slave owners before it was illegal to own slaves. After the law is changed I would hope their are penalties in place to fit the crime. Personally I would advocate a murder change and since it would be with malice and could have been prevented in the first place then the death penalty would certainly be on the table.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
10:25 pm

FROG

Unmentionable’s Cherokee granddad was the taciturn type, too. The Choctaw one STILL hasn’t shut up and he’s been dead for 20 years! :-)

The interesting thing about the Cherokee and literacy is that Sequoyah came just a bit too late. By the time the Georgians came in, the Cherokee had reached a literacy level of over 80% twice the rate of those moving in.

td

December 15th, 2012
10:27 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
10:18 pm

jam and Kam, Since you do not like the word murder according to a technical definition under current US law…

You still don’t get it, sport.

It doesn’t matter what I like or dislike, it’s about you making sh*t up.

You make sh*t up, you get called on it.

Whatever SPORT. I can not help it that you are a secular humanist and do not believe in Gods law but that is your problem and you will have to answer for it one day. I just hope I am there to see the shock in your face when the Lord ask you why you did not stand up for the children.

getalife

December 15th, 2012
10:29 pm

“House Speaker Boehner has offered a fiscal cliff deal that includes letting tax rates increase for the wealthy. ”

And?

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
10:29 pm

josef,

Since you’re discussing the Cherokee nation with Frog I jusst wanted to remind you that if you haven’t seen it already there is an interesting article on the Cherokee nation and the freedmen court case that got decided yesterday. It had to do i think with recognition of ancestry by the Freedmen who were owned as slaves by Cherokees back during the trail of tears. Kinda interesting read.

RAMZAD

December 15th, 2012
10:30 pm

The notion that if we just take away their guns like we took away their marijuana weed and like we took away their moonshine whiskey and like we took away their abortions all the killings will stop is an illusion. That only works in dictatorships, where the cut off the violator’s head.

What we need is to arm more of the right people- teachers, bus driver, train operators, civil servant workers, church officers, designated employees in every work place, college professors, animal control officers, theater attendants, and a step further- we encourage all law abiding citizens to get trained and armed

Professionalize more jobs with a security/civil defense component. Kooks are going to come with guns- legal or illegal. It is not for us to do this unilateral disarmament. It is to be ready when the kooks come.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
10:30 pm

I can not help it that you are a secular humanist and do not believe in Gods law but that is your problem and you will have to answer for it one day.

You cannot sell me a ticket to take a guilt trip on the shame train, sport.

Many professionals that are more competent than you have tried and failed.

td

December 15th, 2012
10:35 pm

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
10:30 pm

If you are having a guilt trip then that should tell you something. I can not save your soul all I can do is tell you the truth and let the Lord convict your soul. If you choose to be stubborn and deny him then that is on you. My conscience in clear.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 15th, 2012
10:36 pm

If you are having a guilt trip then that should tell you something.

No trip here, sport.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
10:37 pm

Many professionals that are more competent than you have tried and failed.

Did your mother have you tested? ;)

oldguy

December 15th, 2012
10:41 pm

Ah, Just when I thought there might be a ray of hope for Jay being sensible. The article has a lot of common sense and logic….. but then that liberal virus he has kicks in …..so
1. Jay talks about other countries with gun owning populations and uses Iraq as an example?? A country wracked by religious killing Shiite vs Suni, a country used to mass murder and totalitarian terror its entire existence, a country born through British colonialism without a national identity. The were killing each other with bows and arrows (and poison seran gas) for centuries.
Why not Switzerland Jay? one of the most armed countries on the face of the earth. Per household there is no other country so heavily armed. Historically, their military is armed via their citizens retaining their military arms in their homes. What is their murder rate? One of the most peaceful people on the planet. Apparently guns aren’t the problem.
2.”the NRA is in many ways nothing more than a front for its gun-industry sponsors” and your data for this is???? I am a life member of the NRA and I get their yearly financial statements. They are almost totally funded by their membership. They get very little funding from industry. As a matter of fact the firearm industry in the US is much more a mom and pop industry than almost any other. Ruger is still owned and mannaged by the Ruger family. Glock is still mostly made in Austria. The NRA is one of the few truly member owned and directed organizations.
It appears that, in summary, Jay’s main objection to gun confiscation is not the 2nd amendment or a citizen’s innate right to choose to be armed or to protect himself or his family and possessions, but rather the impossibility of being able to identify and confiscate all the arms now in private hands.
Thanks for nothing Jay.

JamVet

December 15th, 2012
10:43 pm

After the law is changed I would hope their are penalties in place to fit the crime. Personally I would advocate a murder change and since it would be with malice and could have been prevented in the first place then the death penalty would certainly be on the table.

Wow.

You are completely psychotic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpsaQq0Of2U

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
10:43 pm

Thulsa Doom
I read the article and interestingly the freedmen members/nonmembers
affected the primary chief election in that the chief had to win by enough
votes that the freedmen would not have mattered if they had voted. I think
it took three elections to settle the outcome.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
10:45 pm

Thulsa

Thanks…I had been following the case, but did not know it had been decided…on iPad now, but will go read on it in the a.m.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
10:45 pm

td: Your BS about eternal damnation scares me no more than I fear that Bigfoot will come through the window and snatch me from my bed.

Question for you. Where was your God and Jesus when those poor kids were being slaughtered? Watching with detached amusement? Either you believe God made the tracks and the train, started it in motion, and then watches as the damn thing runs off the track, or you believe that he is involved in the day to day operations of the train. Either way, if your god exists, he is one mean, cruel, heartless, vain, SOB. Anyone who’s “faith” is not rocked by the events of yesterday is incapable of logical thought.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
10:47 pm

Frog…

That Dawes Roll is aSticky wicket, eh?

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
10:51 pm

josef
it seems to be for many. my family mostly hid their cherokee ancestry
to avoid the removal and thereafter. none tried for benefits that i am
aware of.

td

December 15th, 2012
10:56 pm

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
10:45 pm

I guess you have never heard of “free-will” and Satan have you. Well if you would like to take the time then I would encourage you to look up free will and study about satan and why he is allowed to do evil things to people that refuse to obey and turn away from him when he continually calls on us to follow him and put him first.

You can not study to understand and keep the secular humanism going on and on and you too my friend will answer for your unwillingness to worship him. Your choice.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
11:02 pm

td
give godless some free will scripture to study.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
11:04 pm

” Anyone who’s “faith” is not rocked by the events of yesterday is incapable of logical thought.”

Nope, events like this only strengthens faith for the true believer but I won’t waste time explaining why. No intended offense.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
11:05 pm

Barking frog,

Yeah. It was interesting. I had no idea any of this was going on and had no idea that the Cherokee had even owned slaves. Makes sense though since there were even freed black men who had owned slaves.

G’night all.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
11:10 pm

Frog

What went on at the time of the Removals and the decades following is one of the great untold stories of the American epic in my opinion, and especially the Mixed Bloods. Once it is reopened, at least in my view, several missing pieces of the puzzle of our regional identity are in place and a clearer picture of its essential uniqueness emerges.

Ken

December 15th, 2012
11:11 pm

Prayer came back to Newtown School on Friday. Rest in peace.

oldguy

December 15th, 2012
11:12 pm

Rest Well TD
Recon Keep your powder dry and your claymores out in front.
Think I’ll go have some Lobster Bisc and a bit of down home BBQ

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
11:14 pm

oldguy, enjoy as you deserve to.

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
11:14 pm

josef
the remainder of the cherokees, mostly mixed bloods, lived hard
lives, probably harder than the people taken west after they arrived.

Recon 0311 2533

December 15th, 2012
11:15 pm

Okay troops, stand steady…I’m out. Taps

oldguy

December 15th, 2012
11:17 pm

Recon – back at ya – might slip a glass of 3.2 beer in there also. over and out.

Thulsa Doom

December 15th, 2012
11:17 pm

“Either way, if your god exists, he is one mean, cruel, heartless, vain, SOB.”

Godless heathen,

You can’t know good without knowing evil. And of course the free will thing explains why God normally does not intervene in earthly events. Plus if he revealed himself all the time to the point of being obvious than people wouldn’t have to rely on and be tested by their faith in him.

Anyway, I respect the fact that you don’t believe in God but I will say something along the same lines that will perhaps sway you into taking a look again one day. My whole life I struggled not only with these questions but also explicitly with the question of why would God subject people to an eternity in hell for the sins of one meager little lifetime- especially if you barely miss the cut to get into Heaven.

Then I found out that that is not what the bible says at all even if there are others on here who think it does. It would take too long to explain on here but the reality is that people do not burn in hell for all of eternity for just one lifetime. People are punished according to their sins. The explanations of what the bible really says are logical and rational compared to the different things I’ve been told my whole life about the bible. If you ever are curious as an atheist to see a good counterargument then go to amazingfacts .com and you will see rational, biblical explanations to these questions and others.

Now i will try and get outta here.

td

December 15th, 2012
11:25 pm

oldguy

December 15th, 2012
11:12 pm

Sounds like a good late night snack. Enjoy.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
11:27 pm

Frog

Some did, and some didn’t. It depended a lot on into which caste of White or Black the had intermarried. Just take into consideration the likes of Senator Owen. The masses, however, did form the bulk of the population of what we today call Rednecks, Crackers, trailer trash and assorted other pejoratives. Another untold chapter is just what a high percentage of Free People of Color were bi and tri racials “left behind.”

barking frog

December 15th, 2012
11:31 pm

josef
you’re right. some had intermarried well and preserved some
cherokee land by the marriage mostly to white men.

iggy

December 15th, 2012
11:40 pm

Obamas teleprompter recital, fake crying, insincere caring was nothing more than nauseating.

iggy

December 15th, 2012
11:43 pm

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 15th, 2012
10:45 pm

Fairly strong words. God never left man. Man left God. God set things in motion and man decided he wanted to be in control, God obliged and “the world” as we know it, is the result.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
11:46 pm

Frog

Interesting thing there on the gender of the intermarriages. The generally held belief was that they were white male Cherokee female. That turns out not to be the case. I’m on iPad and can’t call up the actual stats, but remind me, if you are interested, and I’ll. Pull them for you later. I was surprised myself.

Josef

December 15th, 2012
11:52 pm

Gotta call it a night….

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 16th, 2012
12:10 am

Whoo. Dodged the cops again and I’m back in the trailer safe and sound.

Don’t forget to go to church in the morning. It’ll make you feel a lot better about all the cussin’ and feuding tonight. Except maybe this TD. He’s so danged holy he can wait another year.

Chris

December 16th, 2012
12:40 am

Guns don’t kill people. People kill people. Guns just make it easier for people to kill. I assume it’s much harder to kill someone by stabbing or strangling them.

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
3:08 am

josef
just basing the intermarrriage on families i knew personally in the chattanooga area.

David

December 16th, 2012
4:02 am

I sure wish I could resolve deranged acts by individuals by the simplistic view point that control of the tools used for thier deprivity cures the problem. From this train of thought, cars are responsible for the carnage on our highways as well.

Thomas Heyward Jr

December 16th, 2012
5:43 am

Maybe Eric Holder could take over some gun shop in Jersey or Connetecutt……and flood the surrounding counties with guns………..and then somehow TRACK them…….to see who’s using them……….and maybe catch the bad guys…..or something. Maybe call it a jazzy name ………like maybe…….Loose and lunacy or something.
.
Surely………..nothing could go wrong.

zeke

December 16th, 2012
7:19 am

Gun control, or, the agenda of forbidding law abiding persons the Second Amendment Right to own guns, is a policy plan only in the small minds of small minded people! There is not a gun problem! It is a morals problem in this country where killing millions of unborn children is considered a method of birth control! Where criminals have vast rights and victims seemingly none! Banning or placing draconian laws on the ownership of guns will do nothing to curb this horrible violence, only a national change in morality will do that IF RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE RETURNS! THERE IS NONE NOW! As with the absurd prohibition of alcohol, there will always be guns or other means of murder available to mindless morons with an agenda of killing themselves, and, taking as many others with them as they can! New, strict gun control laws will protect only the criminals!

dcb

December 16th, 2012
7:23 am

I have no dog in this second amendment discussion. I am not a hunter or recreational shooter. And I certainly decry these killings. But I would point out that in reference to Bookman’s comment “those gun owners who have gone through the steps required to obtain a concealed carry permit rarely use those guns in crime.” – it was not the legal gun owner who used the guns in the killings. Nancy Lanza had legally obtained the weapons. She was a victim – as were the other 27 killed.

Pugugly

December 16th, 2012
7:45 am

It is the arguments about gun control that contribute to mass killings. Those against gun control loudly proclaim that everyone must have access to a gun. Remember the popular bumper sticker that said “I’ll give you my gun when you take it from my cold dead hands.” With our laissez faire mental health system and proclammations that guns are the answer, we will continue to suffer horrors such as the last one in Connecticut.

stands for decibels

December 16th, 2012
8:05 am

Find a paintball center. Get as many of your buddies together that you can. Arm yourself as a concealed carry person would. Get everyone else to set up an active shooter scenario without giving you a clue as to what’s going to happen or when it’s going to happen. After you complete the scenario, take a count of the number of shots the shooter got off before you reacted and the number of victims that were hit. Also take into account that, if the shooter hits you with a “kill” shot, you’re out of the scenario and unable to react at all while the shooter can then take your weapon and continue his assault.

Let us know how that experiment works out if you choose to take it on.

Reminds me. Bros and I have discussed this before and are in basic agreement, I think–I also believe some of the more hawkish 2nd Amendmentors here have concurred (mighta been Del, or someone else).

If you wish to have a concealed carry permit, it is not asking too much ethically (I’m not saying constitutionally–i know the current court would strike such a national requirement down) for the handgun owner to undergo the same kind of rigorous shoot/no shoot scenario training that many law enforcement officers are expected to undergo.

I’d go one better and require any handgun owner to undergo such training. I don’t expect I’d get much support from folks here on that, but given that handguns have no practical purpose other than self-defense, it seems reasonable to me.

/drive-by

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
8:06 am

Why is it that people do not appear to respect the beliefs, or non-beliefs, of those who do not believe as they do? Why is it that some people wish to force their religious beliefs on others who obviously do not share them?

middle of the road

December 16th, 2012
8:16 am

My question is why did the mother own an assault-syle rifle? And was the ammunition hers or did the shooter order it? Did she (or did he) use high capacity magazines? Was the mother preparing to hold off U.N. stormtroopers some time in the future? Or maybe Mexican cartel gangs were particularly bad in her neighborhood and there was a “drug war” going on?

Some may say that high-capacity magazines don’t make a difference, but it does take a second or two to change each magazine, and there is always the possibility of dropping it, so it gives a SLIGHT more chance of overpowering someone.

That being said, I still think mental illness and our total refusal to deal with it is the PRIMARY cause of this tragedy.

indigo

December 16th, 2012
8:30 am

zeke – 7:19 “New, strict gun control laws will protect criminals”

No, they will punish criminals. And, they will substantially cut into the profits of gun manufacturers. Because of the latter, you may be certain Republicans will NEVER let truly meaningful gun control laws come into being.

Mike

December 16th, 2012
8:31 am

Jay, we also need to tell hollywood to quit glamorizing assault weapons and violence in their productions.

Mike

December 16th, 2012
8:40 am

I have been at the dome for two days, so I am late getting here.
My wife works in a situation with mental health issues and she says the same thing Josef(I think) said early on. The mental health facilities that were once prevalent, are now gone for the most part. She says you guys have no idea how many seriously unstable people are freely roaming around in society.

RB from Gwinnett

December 16th, 2012
8:42 am

So, how many existing gun laws did this shooter ignore while committing this crime? 40-50??? And you think 1 more is going to help?

Just keep doing the same thing the same way, libs……

RB from Gwinnett

December 16th, 2012
8:47 am

“My question is why did the mother own an assault-syle rifle? ”

The answer is because the news media calls pretty much everything an assault style weapon no matter what it really is. I initially heard the rifle described as a hunting rifle and the 2 pistols were basic off the shelf guns. But you bought the “assault rifle” line and thats exactly what they wanted. Also, keep in mind most of them have a gun control agenda and calling it an assault rifle helps them make that case regardless of what the gun actually is. See this article for evidence.

middle of the road

December 16th, 2012
9:00 am

“The answer is because the news media calls pretty much everything an assault style weapon no matter what it really is.”

The reports called the rifle a Bushmaster .223 – a version of the AR-15, which is modeled on the military fully automatic M-16.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cnn-the-connecticut-shooter-used-a-bushmaster-rifle-like-the-dc-snipers-2012-12

See it at the link above. I still want to know the capacity. I doubt the killer could have killed so many with just an ordinary 30-06 hunting rifle. Of course he also carried two semi-automatic pistols, which would greatly extend his firepower and ammo. No word yet how many of the victims died from each type weapon.

stands for decibels

December 16th, 2012
9:01 am

calling it an assault rifle

… is calling it what it is, no matter how much you namby-pamby enablers want to pretend otherwise.

We have a lot of work to do in this country, not all of it can be accomplished through legislation, but from collective shaming and shunning. It’s going to take some time but ultimately it will succeed.

/drive-by

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
9:16 am

The answer is because the news media calls pretty much everything an assault style weapon no matter what it really is.

Well, if a weapon is used in an assault, does that not become an assault weapon? I understand your point, and I think the assaut-style label is used on weapons that have the appearance of military styled weapons. If somebody goes out with grandaddy’s old 30-06, I doubt you’ll hear people describe it as an assault weapon. It will likely be called a hunting rifle.

RB from Gwinnett

December 16th, 2012
9:19 am

Stands, until we’re willing to stop making these people famous by never mentioning their name, this is going to continue. In my opinion, the next one of these will be the fault of the media and every news consumer who demands all the details of this stuff. We’re giving these people EXACTLY what they want and the next one is going to “one up” this one.

The rifle used appears to be a “varmit rifle” for use hunting coyote’s, fox, wolf, etc.

TaxPayer

December 16th, 2012
9:26 am

Once again, guns have been shown to accomplish the singular task that they were designed to do–enrich manufacturers. Okay, so they are designed to do two things–enrich manufacturers and give the impotent a crutch. Okay, so they are designed to do three things.

RB from Gwinnett

December 16th, 2012
9:30 am

“and give the impotent a crutch”

Tell it to the Seals who killed Bin Laden, taxie.

Road Scholar

December 16th, 2012
9:31 am

This is rich: Fox News this AM accused Democrats of being soft on gun control! What?! The “only no” republicans in the House and Senate and their NRA masters would not allow ANY legislation that would permit gun control, registry, etc. FOX strikes again. As with the election results…LOOK WITHIN..YOU are the reason you lost and are the reason we still have mass murders! And you have the nerve to pass blame?

Moon Mullins

December 16th, 2012
9:35 am

Forget about gun control. It’s a phallic symbol and many men would feel emasculated without their GUN! Men are taught in the army: “This is my rifle and this is my gun. This is for shooting and this is for fun.”

TaxPayer

December 16th, 2012
9:37 am

RB,

You obviously are the one calling the Seals impotent, not I.

RF

December 16th, 2012
9:40 am

“Tell it to the Seals who killed Bin Laden, taxie.”

And they had weapons they were carefully trained to use and knew exactly what to do with them. Should those same weapons be available for anyone to buy and keep in the gun cabinet at home? Of course not. And yet it seems that we have another disturbed individual perhaps emboldened to act on his insanity by the presence of a fairly high powered weapon that some would argue shouldn’t be available to the average person. There’s no comparison the the SEAL teams who are painstakingly trained to use far more powerful weapons.

RB from Gwinnett

December 16th, 2012
9:42 am

You go with that, taxie. The rest of us can read what YOU posted.

RF

December 16th, 2012
9:47 am

“the next one of these will be the fault of the media and every news consumer who demands all the details of this stuff.”

NO, it will be the fault of the disturbed idiot wielding the gun. News consumers, aka citizens, have a right to know who did it and how. We need to know in order to better decide how we might protect the next potential group of victims. As a parent and a teacher, I want to know so I can at least try to plan how to deal with something like this should it ever happen in my school. We can’t stop the idiots from doing things like this, but maybe armed with the information we can make it harder for them.

TaxPayer

December 16th, 2012
9:50 am

You go with that, taxie. The rest of us can read what YOU posted.

Clearly YOU cannot read, RB.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
10:00 am

You can not study to understand and keep the secular humanism going on and on and you too my friend will answer for your unwillingness to worship him. Your choice.

Bring it on.

Thulsa: You can’t know good without knowing evil. And of course the free will thing explains why God normally does not intervene in earthly events. Plus if he revealed himself all the time to the point of being obvious than people wouldn’t have to rely on and be tested by their faith in him.

I’ve decided to give the Christians the day off – even the Lord rested on the 7th day – but I will say that the amazing thing about religion is the ability to rationalize everything. One of my “friends” even stated, “We never hear about the good things God does.” BS we hear him praised all the time for all the goodness. But he never gets any blame for the pain and suffering. I guess being God is a good gig if you can get it.

One does not decide to become an atheist and it is certainly not easy to “come out of the closet” as one. It’s not a very popular minority. But it greatly pisses me off to hear or read people blame the events of Friday on the atheists and the secular humanists.

I have been told that I should believe in God,”just in case”. LOL! Some Christians even sport bumper stickers that say, “I Choose to Believe”. Maybe some event or reexamination of evidence will someday return me to the fold, but if I began to profess a belief in God, “just to be safe” it would not be sincere and God would know it and it wouldn’t save me from eternal damnation anyway.

So Christians, have your day. Go to church and pray for the dead and the grieving families. If it makes you feel that you have “done something”, then maybe it’s worthwhile. But also listen to the sermon with a skeptical ear for once. Listen for the rationalizations and the logical backflips required for absolution of God from all responsibility when things go horribly bad.

Buzz Belle

December 16th, 2012
10:05 am

I would like to see a chart that shows the decline in mental health funding to the increase in these mass shootings. There might be some strong evidence that points to a partial answer. If the chart shows what I suspect to be true, could we not place a sizable tax on any assault weapon or magazine clip that help fund mental health services. I would prefer a ban on certain types of weapons but lets face it, there are 300 million guns in this country. We aren’t going to get rid of guns, ever. I hate that and the analogy to the massacre at the Chinese school rings true. There were multiple children injured there by a knife, we have multiple children killed here by a gun. HUGE difference.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
10:11 am

Forget about gun control. It’s a phallic symbol and many men would feel emasculated without their GUN!

The murderer used his mother’s guns.

iggy

December 16th, 2012
10:15 am

Since its the Crazy-8s are doing all the killing, it would seem the answer is now clear.

Kill all the crazy people!! After that we could feed the homeless to the hungry.

That solves 3 of societys most pressing ills.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
10:24 am

“Kill all the crazy people!!”

Maybe we should just kill all the men. When was the last time such an atrocity was committed by a woman?

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
10:30 am

godless @ 10:00

I guess some people don’t understand that freedom of religion also gives the same freedoms to those who do not believe as they do. Well stated post.

Rightwing Troll

December 16th, 2012
10:30 am

Couple of points this morning.

After decades of licking the NRA’s boots, kissing the NRA’s arses, and basically allowing the NRA to dictate gun control legislation (or lack thereof…) it’s much too late to put that toothpaste back in that tube… it’s simply not practical to believe that we can impose sensible gun control measures now, it’s too late.

Guns like the bushmaster (AR-15 and it’s ilk) have no business being in civilian’s hands. The ammo is designed to inflict maximum damage, not necessarily to kill. The philosophy is that it takes more combatants off the field to care for the wounded as opposed to just killing. There’s no practical purpose for hunting whatsoever. It’s a novelty or military weapon.

A shotgun and a 9mm is not only sufficient for home protection but a better choice for such. A shotgun is the preferred weapon for close quarters and a good 9 can end the matter quickly.

All this wingnut blathering about prevention of, and/or early intervention in mental illness issues is rich… these programs cost money and this is the party that canceled such programs and rail against any sort of spending on such… where’s the money going to come from? Now that your precious gun lobby is threatened, you can find the funds?

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
10:33 am

“I guess some people don’t understand that freedom of religion also gives the same freedoms to those who do not believe as they do. Well stated post”

Yes, indeed. And they exhibit one of the first steps towards fanaticism: they think they are the only ones who are right.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
10:38 am

“Guns like the bushmaster (AR-15 and it’s ilk) have no business being in civilian’s hands”

As long as they are law abiding, it’s not your business to say who should or should not have such a gun.

marko

December 16th, 2012
10:39 am

Americans own a lot of guns. No doubt about that. It also seems that the angrier, and less emotionally stable you are, the more likely you are to have guns. Mrs. Lanza seems to to have had ample warnings that she was living with an emotionally unstable son. Still she choose to ignore the warning signs, and filled her home with dangerous toys. Her poor choices cost her her life, and the lives many more innocent children.

At the very least, I’d like to see the great city of Kennesaw strike down their asinine mandatory gun ownership law. I’d appreciate them respecting my right not to own a gun. The Constitution might imply that I have the right to own a gun, However it doesn’t demand that I buy one.

If your gun collection is worth more than your house trailer, you might be a redneck. If you pass stupid knee jerk laws requiring gun ownership you might be a stupid redneck. Am I being redundant? America has many tough problems to overcome, but not having enough guns clearly doesn’t make the list.

josef

December 16th, 2012
10:42 am

I really don’t get the argument between secular humanists and the religious. I am a secular humanist in my public life and religious in my private life. I see no conflict, and one complements the other.

FROG
When you check in. I’ve got those figures for you.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
10:44 am

Guns like the bushmaster (AR-15 and it’s ilk) have no business being in civilian’s hands.

What business does an automobile that will go 100+ mph have on the roads where the maximum speed limit is 70?

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
10:47 am

If your gun collection is worth more than your house trailer, you might be a redneck. If you pass stupid knee jerk laws requiring gun ownership you might be a stupid redneck. Am I being redundant?

Only if Webster’s defines the word redundant as being a mindless @$$hat.

josef

December 16th, 2012
10:47 am

MARKO

“If your gun collection is worth more than your house trailer, you might be a redneck. If you pass stupid knee jerk laws requiring gun ownership you might be a stupid redneck”

Do you have even the vaguest notion of how offensive that type commentary is? You might just as well be a high white West Paces Ferry Buckheadite or a Southside Ghetto Rat…Cheap, tacky and trashy.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
10:48 am

“I am a secular humanist in my public life and religious in my private life. I see no conflict, and one complements the other”

It’s the inability of too many of the “religious” to understand that the foundation of a good deal of their religous SOCIAL teachings are grounded on simply human desires to be safe from each other…and that really have nothing to do with religion.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
10:49 am

RWT: FYI

Wiki:
The .223 Remington is one of the most common rifle cartridges in use in the United States, being widely used in two types of rifles: (1) varmint rifles, most of which are bolt action and commonly have 1-in-12 rifling twist suitable for bullets between 38 to 55 grains (2.5 to 3.6 g), and (2) semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15 and the Ruger Mini-14, which are commonly found to have twist rates of 1-in-7, 1-in-9, or 1-in-8. (Most modern AR-15s use 1-in-9 which is suitable for bullets up to 69 grains / 4.5 grams or 1-in-7 which is suitable for slightly heavier bullets, but older M16’s used 1-in-12 twist rates, making them suitable for use with bullets of 55 grains / 3.6 grams.) The semi-automatic rifle category is often used by law enforcement, for home defense, and for varmint hunting. Among the many popular modern centerfire rifle cartridges, .223 Remington ammunition is among the least expensive and is often used by avid target shooters, particularly in the “service rifle” category or 3 gun matches. The .223 is also used in survival rifles.

Ronald Reagan

December 16th, 2012
10:49 am

Gun laws should be evaluated & add an additional question to the process. Are you a Liberal? Liberals aren’t intelligent enough nor responsible to own a gun of any type.Liberals also commit a majority of crime.This measure alone would reduce criminal activity among the (working folks) Conservatives. Conservatives however had the mental ability & reasoning to own firearms. We use them to protect our home!

josef

December 16th, 2012
10:50 am

DOGGONE

Yes, And I would say vice-versa on many of those calling themselves secular humanists.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
10:51 am

Only if Webster’s defines the word redundant as being a mindless @$$hat.

LOL!

F. Sinkwich

December 16th, 2012
10:53 am

“Washington – President Barack Obama plans to travel to Newtown, Connecticut, on Sunday to meet with families of the victims of a Friday school shooting…”

O’bozo just has to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.

It’s all about him, isn’t it?

josef

December 16th, 2012
10:54 am

RONALD REAGAN

Just what I said to Marko. Y’all, ineoiauo, are the proverbial Siamese twins joined at the a33…

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
10:55 am

josef
ready for stats.

RF

December 16th, 2012
10:56 am

“O’bozo just has to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.”

Perhaps you prefer he be like Bush and just fly over a few days afterwards…

Of course he’s going. What would a Republican president do?

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
10:56 am

“Yes, And I would say vice-versa on many of those calling themselves secular humanists”

Well, I’m not sure I agree. If you remove all social teachings from religion, what you have left is faith…which is by rejected by SECULAR humanists. I think the “problem” is how many things regarded as religious really aren’t religion related at all.

josef

December 16th, 2012
10:56 am

SINKWICH

He is doing what the national leader should be doing. !!אַסשאַט

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
10:58 am

I think RR’s been hitting the bottle WAY, WAY too early today.

josef

December 16th, 2012
10:59 am

FROG

Here ya go, with a little background..

THE REST OF Y’ALL…beg your indulgence for the length

“Contrary to what many, including too many of the academicians, assume, only if head of household were listed as Cherokee was the family subject to deportation. Though a large number of Mixed Bloods did go on the Trail of Tears, a considerable number were left behind, some by choice and others not eligible. In 1851, in an effort to regularize the status, a census of these Mixed Bloods was taken with some 350 households enumerated. Called the Siler Rolls, this census was later updated in what was called the Miller-Guion Rolls. Of 24 districts surveyed, 15 listed the race of the household. Those listing by race provide some interesting insights.
Though most of the households were headed by White or Mixed Blood men, several were headed by White women. As early as the 1824 Cherokee census, of the 226 whites married to Cherokee, 73, or one of every three, were White women married to Cherokee men, definitely a challenge to the popular view that Mixed Bloods were the product of White men and Indian women and providing some idea of the level of acceptance afforded the mixed marriage in the period leading up to deportation.
On the Siler Rolls, of the eight households in Bradley County, Tennessee, two were headed by white women, one of whom was listed as having married a Cherokee man after deportation. Of the 22 households listed in Lumpkin County, Georgia, five were headed by white women who had married Cherokee men since deportation. In Murray County, Georgia of the eight households, two were headed by white women who had married Cherokee men since deportation, one to an Adair. In all, 13 of the 120, or one in nine of households for which race was given, were headed by White women, 18 were headed by white men, one in seven. Overall, one in four was a mixed-marriage household. The remaining three of four were marriages between Mixed Blood partners or single head of Mixed Blood. One of them, in Jackson County, Alabama, had a Mixed Blood daughter but the White mother had married a white man following the deportations.
Several of the listed hint at tragedies brought on by the deportation which often split families. The one household in Monroe County, Tennessee was that of a White male in his seventies whose Indian wife was in Arkansas. He died before they could be reunited. In another case from Marshall County Alabama, the Mixed Blood wife’s White husband had gone to Arkansas, possibly to make arrangements for her to follow. Two households were enumerated in Washington, DC. In one, the male was listed as Mixed and having married a white woman since the treaty. The other was a White with a Mixed Blood spouse and family still in North Carolina. As late as 1908 with the Churchill Rolls the status of Mixed Bloods was still in question enough to require census taking and it would be 1920s before the question was finally laid to rest with the passage of the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act granting citizenship to all American Indians, a bill much the work of Senator Charles Curtis who would serve as Vice President under Herbert Hoover, the highest office yet held by an American Indian. In 1924 Curtis had worked for the passage of legislation protecting the property ownership rights of Indian women married to non Indian men, the federal government taking action on the issue first addressed by Mississippi nearly a century earlier.
These rolls represented only those who responded, looking to be compensated for losses and/or aided in reuniting with family west of the river. Among their neighbors were many, many more who chose not to register, either comfortable in the present circumstances, fearful of doing so, or so long assimilated that it was not at issue. Unwillingness to make their Mixed Blood ancestry a public issue should not be interpreted, however, as a personal rejection of the Indian aspect of who they were. The Cherokee grandmother or grandfather became a fixture of the family genealogy and was most often a subject of pride, quietly passed on generation to generation with hundreds of thousands of “White” and “Black” citizens of North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Alabama acknowledging Cherokee ancestry, often “on both sides.”

ad

December 16th, 2012
11:00 am

Maybe something will be done when someone shoots a couple of dozen people at an NRA convention. And don’t tell me they’d be able to stop it because they’re armed – if anyone pulled his gun, then the person next to them with a gun would think they were the shooter and, of course, shoot them.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:00 am

No statement here ……… just providing a news article:

HEADLINE (Yahoo News): “No rise in mass killings, but their impact is huge”

“And yet those who study mass shootings say they are not becoming more common.

“There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston’s Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.

The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says. Most people who die of bullet wounds knew the identity of their killer.

Society moves on, he says, because of our ability to distance ourselves from the horror of the day, and because people believe that these tragedies are “one of the unfortunate prices we pay for our freedoms.”

Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.”

http://news.yahoo.com/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-185700637.html

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
11:00 am

O’bozo just has to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.

It’s all about him, isn’t it?

Obviously, it’s more about those who find fault with damn near everything he does. If he didn’t bother with any of this, you would have found fault with him about that. The next 4 years for you are really gonna suck, huh?

josef

December 16th, 2012
11:02 am

DOGGONE

To a great extent, I would agree with that…except that, fundamentally, the way I see it, secular humanism is just as much a leap of “faith” in the better nature of humankind.

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
11:02 am

I think RR’s been hitting the bottle WAY, WAY too early today.

Could still be going strong from last night. Something like a case of not being a quitter. :)

JamVet

December 16th, 2012
11:03 am

It’s all about him, isn’t it?

It would seem so.

At least for the whiners who are obsessed with him.

Maybe you, Pat Robertson and Ann Coulter can all cuddle up together and tell us how those people deserved it…

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 16th, 2012
11:04 am

O’bozo just has to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.

It’s all about him, isn’t it?

And if he didn’t go would you bitch that he is ignoring this tragedy?

You bitch if he goes, you would probably bitch if he didn’t.

Some people are just bitches.

JamVet

December 16th, 2012
11:06 am

Liberals Christians also commit a disproportionate majority of crimes.

They make up about 75% of the US population.

And 80% of the US prison population.

Go to church and say a prayer for them, meat…

The Truth

December 16th, 2012
11:07 am

To say further restriction of firearms would have prevented this is absolutely beyond absurd. We don’t go out restricting the purchase of cars because of DUI deaths or KFC because of heart attacks. The point is that no matter what restrictions you create, people with a motive will find a way to get what they need to do the job. In this case, restrictions wouldn’t have worked because the killer took the irons from his mom.

Soothsayer

December 16th, 2012
11:07 am

F. Sinkwich

December 16th, 2012
11:07 am

“The next 4 years for you are really gonna suck, huh?”

For America? Pretty much.

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:07 am

josef
Thanks. that’s a far greater percentage than i would have thought.

not so independent thinker

December 16th, 2012
11:07 am

DERANGED!
This blog start with the following from TM:
“”"”"”"”"”Jay I suggest that your law would have have done absolutly nothing to prevent this since it appears the mother bought the guns. What needs to change is how we find those in our society who have the ability to do this and what we are going to do with them. I”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”

Another brainwashed NRA gun hugger with no sense of reality.
Shooters Momma did not need all her guns for self defense. She had a dysfunctional 20 year old male in the house with no social skills yet she takes him to gun ranges to use the most deadly of assault weapons while crazes shooters with the same mental infirmities as her soon commit senseless and horrific mass shootings daily.Yet TM and the NRA stooges want to blame mental health officials.
“A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state” has significance here unlike those five activist judges that threw the preamble of the second amendment in the trash can to give TM and the shooter’s mother the fundamental god created right to own unlimited guns and enable a nebtally ill shooter to kill little children like wild rabbits. SHAME ON YOU !

josef

December 16th, 2012
11:08 am

BROSEPHUS
@ 11:02

:-)

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:09 am

“To a great extent, I would agree with that…except that, fundamentally, the way I see it, secular humanism is just as much a leap of “faith” in the better nature of humankind”

There’s a lot of “faith” in humans…what each of us places faith in varies!

Shortage of Guns?.......Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 16th, 2012
11:11 am

@F. Sinkwich

December 16th, 2012
10:53 am
“Washington – President Barack Obama plans to travel to Newtown, Connecticut, on Sunday to meet with families of the victims of a Friday school shooting…”

O’bozo just has to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.

It’s all about him, isn’t it?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

F. Sinkwich has to be the jealous HATER at every wedding.

F. Sinkwich has to be the evil happy BATER at every funeral.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:11 am

“not so independent thinker ”

Well, that’s pretty apparent…thanks for the warning about you

josef

December 16th, 2012
11:12 am

FROG
Surprized me, too…and while I didn’t give them, the stats for the Choctaw, Creek and Chickasaw are even higher.
I went and read up on the decision of day before yesterday. Quite interesting and with more twists and turns than a West Virginia highway…

josef

December 16th, 2012
11:13 am

DOGGONE

True, that!

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
11:14 am

For America? Pretty much.

I know how highly you think of yourself, but you sir, are not America. I’ll enjoy watching your meltdowns over the next 4 years.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:15 am

josef
did you read about the election for principal chief?

NOT fair and balanced

December 16th, 2012
11:15 am

iF A POLICE OFFICER HAD TO INTERVIEW THE SHOOTER’S MOTHER FOR HER TO REGISTER AND KEEP THOSE ASSAULT TYPE WEAPONS IN HER HOUSE AND TO DETERMINE WHO HAD ACCESS TO THOSE WEAPONS, 28 PEOPLE WOULD BE ALIVE IN CONNECTICUT.That;s how other Western civilized countries regulate gun ownership. Glad Momma got the first bullet-she deserved it! So much for her fundamental due process right to own unlimited guns.

getalife

December 16th, 2012
11:15 am

Dems propose automatic weapon ban again.

The gop will kill it again.

Onto the next massacre.

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
11:15 am

josef

What can you say, some people are just not quitters.

:lol:

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:17 am

Burglar bars could have prevented this tragedy.

aps

December 16th, 2012
11:18 am

Let’s not forget the political correctness aspect of shootings such as this. The Virginia Tech shooter was known to have some issues however no one in authority was able to say anything because of his privacy and mental health “rights”.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:18 am

“Burglar bars could have prevented this tragedy.”

And trapped the children in the building if there was a fire.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:19 am

getalife:

“Dems propose automatic weapon ban again.”

Automatic weapons are already banned.

I assume you mean “semi-automatic”.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:19 am

“Let’s not forget the political correctness”

If you think that, you’re just about as sick as the killer was

Soothsayer

December 16th, 2012
11:20 am

The only really effective way to stop this kind of violence is to close down those locations where history has shown that these incidents take place. Therefore all schools, universities, shopping centers and any other place where a nutcase has gone berserk should be permanently closed effective immediately.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:20 am

aps @ 11:18

THANK YOU !

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:21 am

doggone/ga
Burglar bars could have prevented this tragedy.”

And trapped the children in the building if there was a fire
…………………………………………………
not if they open from the inside, but they would not have
provided protection from a nuclear attack….

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
11:22 am

Soothsayer

December 16th, 2012
11:07 am

I think I would have taken the bus that day. Thanks for posting.

Real Scootter

December 16th, 2012
11:22 am

Glad Momma got the first bullet-she deserved it

:shock: Whew!

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:23 am

I will ask again:

One simple (very inexpensive) computer chip in every new car made or sold in the United States restricting the maximum speed of the vehicle to 55 mph would save “thousands and thousands” of lives over given time periods.

Why doesn’t our society push for that?

The TIme is Now

December 16th, 2012
11:23 am

Perhaps gun control would not have done anything for this particular massacre, but the fact is that we have way too many guns in circulation – guns that have nothing to do with hunting or self protection. Look at countries like Australia, where shooting-related assaults have gone down dramatically since enacting gun control. Its a sad day when gun rights outweigh the rights of anything else. If nothing is done now, then when? What does it take – when someone in our own families are personally impacted?

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
11:23 am

Its time to repeal the second amendment.

Because of the shear number of guns already in private hands, there is no quick fix. Even if all guns were banned tomorrow, it would be decades before gun violence became less prevalent. I would be willing to take action now and wait vs. do nothing.

I would happy to see a public ban on all guns except single shot rifles, limited magazine (2-3 rounds) shot guns, single shot handguns, i.e. the only weapons which could arguably be primarily used for sport/hunting. All guns should be required to be registered, and maybe even stored at a locked facility to be signed out for use. This should coincide with a tax on all guns and ammo sold, plus an annual tax on all guns owned, to be used exclusively to pay for security at schools. I don’t care if the tax is prohibitively high. Any body who doesn’t wish to pay the tax, can turn in their gun for destruction, and MAYBE, recieve a nominal payment. Any body purchasing a gun should undergo pschological testing at their own expense, and be retested every year as long as they continue to own the gun. Severe penalties should be in effect for those keeping unregistered guns, not paying the tax, or failing to get pschologically tested.

If all this were done, maybe my grandchildren would be able to live in an America without these too frequent gun murders.

getalife

December 16th, 2012
11:23 am

scout,

My bad,

“Dems To Introduce Assault Weapons Ban Bill” HP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/dianne-feinstein-assault-weapons-ban_n_2311477.html

Don’t worry, your party will kill it.

ad

December 16th, 2012
11:23 am

Let’s blame the shootings on everything that has nothing to do with the shootings. The building’s construction, mental health, video games, tv, etc. Let’s ignore the one thing that all shootings have in common – guns.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:24 am

Real Scootter:

I’m glad he got the last one. He deserved it.

josef

December 16th, 2012
11:24 am

BROSEPHUS

:-)

FROG

Yeah, I’ve been following this one for a while. It’s kind of interesting to see the “media bias” on this, too. Not at all out to defend him, mind you, but the reports tend to ignore that he had the support of the Freedmen descendants with the infamous CDIB card! Like I said, this one has its twists and turns and, well, who said the Civil War was over! :-)

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:24 am

“not if they open from the inside, but they would not have provided protection from a nuclear attack”

If they can be opened from the inside, they can be opened from the outside, especially if the window is at ground level. And don’t forget, children in that school are as young as 5 years old. If it’s easy enough for a child that young to open, it’s not going to keep many “burglers” out.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:25 am

“Let’s ignore the one thing that all shootings have in common – guns.”

Let’s ignore the one thing that all shootings have in common – people.

godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 16th, 2012
11:25 am

Dems propose automatic weapon ban again.

They’re not called knee-jerk liberals for nothing.

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
11:25 am

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:23 am
I will ask again:

One simple (very inexpensive) computer chip in every new car made or sold in the United States restricting the maximum speed of the vehicle to 55 mph would save “thousands and thousands” of lives over given time periods.

Why doesn’t our society push for that?
———————————————
Because the speed limit is 60, 65, and 70 mph on many highways?

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:25 am

“Perhaps gun control would not have done anything for this particular massacre, but the fact is that we have way too many guns in circulation – guns that have nothing to do with hunting or self protection”

And as long as the owners are law abiding, it’s none of your business what, or how many, they own.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:26 am

getalife:

1) You are welcome.

2) I hope so.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:26 am

“If all this were done, maybe my grandchildren would be able to live in an America without these too frequent gun murders”

Beware a false sense of security

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:27 am

“Let’s ignore the one thing that all shootings have in common – guns”

A shooter

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:27 am

“Because the speed limit is 60, 65, and 70 mph on many highways?”

and because they can be pretty easily reprogrammed

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:29 am

“Perhaps gun control would not have done anything for this particular massacre, but the fact is that we have way too many guns in circulation – guns that have nothing to do with hunting or self protection”

But not way too many to curtail tyrannical government ………… which is why the 2nd Amendment is there.

From “Heller v D.C. Government” :

Page 24

b. SECURITY OF A FREE STATE

“The phrase “security of a free state” meant “security of a free polity” not security of each of the several states.”

“There are many reasons why the militia was thought to be “necessary for the security of a free state” ……….. Third, when the
able bodied men of a nation are trained in arms and organized, they are better able to resist tyranny.”

Page 25

3. RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PREFATORY CLAUSE AND OPERATIVE CLAUSE

“That history showed that the way tyrants had eliminated a militia consisting of all the able bodied men was not by
banning the militia but simply taking away the people’s arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress
political opponents.”

Page 26

“It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might
be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down.”

Real Scootter

December 16th, 2012
11:29 am

I’m glad he got the last one. He deserved it.

No arguement here Scout! This whole thing still has my gut wrenched.

Shortage of Guns?.......Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.

December 16th, 2012
11:29 am

@JamVet

December 16th, 2012
11:06 am
Liberals Christians also commit a disproportionate majority of crimes.

They make up about 75% of the US population.

And 80% of the US prison population.

Go to church and say a prayer for them, meat…

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To be sure, there have been mass murders committed by people of all races throughout history, and not every mass murder since 1980 has been committed by a young white male.

However, this one subset, which centers around schools, has enough unique characteristics that it seems to demand its own answer.

What if my hypothesis is correct?

What if the main reason these shootings keep occurring is that WHITE MEN aren’t handling equality very well?

There aren’t, I believe, any easy answers. Even so, we can take this perspective with us, and we can work to think of ways to help young white males grow up in a society where the expectation of privilege is never indoctrinated.

We can teach them early in life how to cope with REJECTION.

We can realize that pointing fingers and blaming others might feel good in the short term, but in the long term, only working towards positive solutions will really help. And yes, we can absolutely continue to advocate for better mental healthcare.

Finally, I think we need to be brave enough to have conversations like this one. We need to ADMIT the possibility that by perpetuating the LIE OF WHITE MALE SUPERIORITY despite strong societal and scientific pressure to change, WE MAY HAVE CREATED OUR OWN MONSTER..

Source: Kalish, R., & Kimmel, M. (2010). Suicide by mass murder: Masculinity, aggrieved entitlement, and rampage school shootings. Health Sociology Review, 19(4), 451-464.

..

getalife

December 16th, 2012
11:30 am

scout,

The only difference this time is the children got massacred.

This makes it harder for your party to kill it but they will.

Parents will be outraged but most already left your failed party.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 16th, 2012
11:31 am

I’d go one better and require any handgun owner to undergo such training. I don’t expect I’d get much support from folks here on that, but given that handguns have no practical purpose other than self-defense, it seems reasonable to me.

I would have no problem with that.

I don’t intend to get a carry permit, and I would welcome that kind of instruction.

In N.C., a one day class is required ($95) for CCW permit but in Ga. no such class is required and neighboring states honor that permit issued in Ga.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shooters Momma did not need all her guns for self defense. She had a dysfunctional 20 year old male in the house with no social skills…

And this is where I’m having trouble. Having that kind of son doesn’t disqualify her from owning legally obtained firearms, but I do think that she should have gone the extra mile because she did have that kind of son.

That means a gun safe, where she was the only one with the combination.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:32 am

Those are “maximum” speed limits……………….. and the minimum speed on the interstates I believe is 40mph. So ………… a 55 mph restrictive computer chip (regardless of the few who change them) would save thousands and thousands of lives.

The point is ……………. society at some point values freedom over regulation.

We always have and we always will.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:33 am

“I’d go one better and require any handgun owner to undergo such training.”

Think it through …………. then a future murderer might be even more lethal with that weapon.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:36 am

getalife:

How many states still don’t have “open container” laws ?

People are “massacred” everyday on our highways. There are MANY things that could be done to minimize that but society chooses not to.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 16th, 2012
11:36 am

Out for awhile.

Everyone try to be nice.

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:37 am

repealing the 2nd amendment would not ban gun ownership. the amendment
restricts the government from infringing on rights already in existence.

getalife

December 16th, 2012
11:38 am

No scout holes for me today scout.

I would rather focus on the issue.

How do we stop our children from being massacred at school again?

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
11:40 am

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:26 am
“If all this were done, maybe my grandchildren would be able to live in an America without these too frequent gun murders”

Beware a false sense of security
__________________________________________________
Nothing false about it. Fewer guns = fewer gun crimes. No where do I assume there would be NO gun crime, just less.

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:40 am

to protect from a tyrranical government the ownership of anti-aircraft
guns should be encouraged…

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
11:42 am

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:37 am
repealing the 2nd amendment would not ban gun ownership. the amendment
restricts the government from infringing on rights already in existence.
———————————————————————-

Repealing the second amendment would allow laws to be passed which are currently held to be unconstitutional.

getalife

December 16th, 2012
11:42 am

frog,

That is what the Syrian rebels needed.

willie lynch

December 16th, 2012
11:44 am

I hear people saying I own a gun and I own it legally so I’m not the one you have to worry about. Until.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:45 am

“Nothing false about it. Fewer guns = fewer gun crimes. No where do I assume there would be NO gun crime, just less”

You are reckonning on criminals who would do gun crimes being law abiding enough to not try to get one if they are illegal. That’s a false sense of security.

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
11:47 am

“Let’s ignore the one thing that all shootings have in common – guns.”

Let’s ignore the one thing that all shootings have in common – people.

Ummmm…

You can fill the Superdome with a capacity crowd and litter the field with thousands of guns. That does not automatically mean you will have a shooting because people and/or guns are present. Shootings do not occur without a shooter.

Just sayin’

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:48 am

saywhat
only if the supreme court agrees the right to keep and bear arms
is not inherent in the constitution. some believe the first 10 amendments are
just enumerating rights already in existence that restrict the government explicitly.

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
11:49 am

Doggone @ 11:27

:)

wet wiccan

December 16th, 2012
11:49 am

to those who are trying to equate what happened in Connecticut to deaths in car wrecks or swimming pool drownings – when has it ever happened that 20 children were all dropped in a pool at the same time and forcibly drowned at once? when has it ever happened that 20 children were all packed into a car at the same time and then crushed the car? Jeez ….

and now a rant about the media coverage of this – way too much – it is voyeuristic and not doing anyone any good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Q9D4dcYng

barking frog

December 16th, 2012
11:51 am

getalife
yep. egypt too.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 16th, 2012
11:51 am

Well, the Rev. Postlewaite almost kept me awake this morning but in the end I dozed till somebody poked me in the ribs and handed me the offering plate. I put in my dime and passed it on and then dozed again till the noise of everybody getting up woke me. Nothing like a good church service to make a body feel rested and charged up for another week.

I see the politicans are jumping on this Conn. shooting like a robin on a June bug. Even county commissioners are firing off e-mails to people, going on and on about how sad it all is and how it count of been prevented if only the teachers were packing heat when that guy busted in. I know there’s times that teachers need a weapon but something tells me that 1st grade students ain’t no threat to them.

Anyway I plan on watching the Falcons disgrace theirselfs against beat the tar out of the Giants today. The missus will just have to wait till next Sunday to go to Ryans.

Have a good Sabbath everybody.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 16th, 2012
11:52 am

to protect from a tyrranical government the ownership of anti-aircraft
guns should be encouraged…

I’ll take a phalanx, please.

Gene

December 16th, 2012
11:52 am

I have a collection of antique and modern firearms and have shot competitively in the military. There must be controls on magazine capacity. There is no reason for a target shooter or hunter to fire more than five rounds without reloading. Handgun magazines should be limited to ten rounds or even eight. There are enough large-capacity magazines on the market now to last 50 years or more. I would support more strenuous background check and licensing. Someone in schools–principals or assistant principals or other administrators–should be trained and armed. There is no way that police can prevent these tragedies, but an armed administrator in the school could at least respond to an intrusion in a timely manner. My heart goes out to the parents and family members of those murdered innocents.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:53 am

“to those who are trying to equate what happened in Connecticut to deaths in car wrecks or swimming pool drownings – when has it ever happened that 20 children were all dropped in a pool at the same time and forcibly drowned at once”

It isn’t the DEATHS that are being equated, but it’s very telling that you think so. What is being equated is that they are all TOOLS, that can be be good…or can do harm. Blaming the tool does not do anything to solve the problem that it is PEOPLE who are at fault, not the tools.

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
11:54 am

You are reckonning on criminals who would do gun crimes being law abiding enough to not try to get one if they are illegal. That’s a false sense of security.
———————————————————–
Incorrect. I am reckoning on there being a much smaller supply of guns and ammo available in 20-30 years if the steps I advocated, among others, were taken. I freely acknowledge that it would not eliminate gun crime, merely reduce it.

Corey

December 16th, 2012
11:55 am

@F. Sinkwich
December 16th, 2012
10:53 am
“it’s all about him”

No, but your every waking moment is about him, aka ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome). Somehow I get the feeling you want to blow the man, no?

ricardus

December 16th, 2012
11:57 am

I predicted columns like this as events were unfolding on Friday. In the socialist world, never let a crisis go to waste.
Bookman needs to learn that the Second Amendment is settled law unless you are not an American and only taking up space here.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:58 am

“I freely acknowledge that it would not eliminate gun crime, merely reduce it”

and I think you’re still putting your faith in a false sense of security. Think the war on drugs.

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
12:00 pm

“I predicted columns like this”

It’s easy to “predict” after the fact

Brosephus™

December 16th, 2012
12:00 pm

Think it through …………. then a future murderer might be even more lethal with that weapon.

Is that any different than giving juvenile gang members the choice of going to jail or going to the military? You also have gang members who are volunteering for military service and getting trained on how to be an efficient and effective killer.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CERES-STANISLAUS-COUNTY-Marine-who-killed-cop-2738399.php

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 16th, 2012
12:01 pm

I predicted columns like this as events were unfolding on Friday.

I predicted that you would predict this.

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
12:01 pm

It isn’t the DEATHS that are being equated, but it’s very telling that you think so. What is being equated is that they are all TOOLS, that can be be good…or can do harm. Blaming the tool does not do anything to solve the problem that it is PEOPLE who are at fault, not the tools.
_______________________________________________________________________
Tools whose primary purpose is to kill people do not need to be widespread. While gun deaths may not be the fault of the “tool”, they are certainly the fault of the people who work to make those tools so widespread and easily obtainable.

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
12:09 pm

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
11:58 am
“I freely acknowledge that it would not eliminate gun crime, merely reduce it”

and I think you’re still putting your faith in a false sense of security. Think the war on drugs.
——————————————————-
False equivalency in too many ways to list.

Are you saying it would “false” to feel more secure against gun violence in Britain than in the U.S.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

Are you sure?

midtownguy

December 16th, 2012
12:11 pm

I had a professor in graduate school who always said “anyone who thinks there is a simple answer to a complex question is a fool.” I think reasonable and adequate control of access to guns is one of those issues. On one hand, no one wants to limit the number of rifles and shotguns a hunter can own, but on the hand does any private citizen need an assault rifle?

But in situations like this, the real issues seems to be the inadequacy of our mental health diagnosis and treatment system. No sane person does this. The act is, by definition, that of a mad man. What kind of tortured mind guns down children?

JamVet

December 16th, 2012
12:11 pm

Shortage, agreed.

I’ve worked with boys and young men in the Cub/Boy Scouts, etc. I always tried to bring my A Game for them and be a great role model. The chance to positively influence a young person is something I found to be very rewarding. For them and me…

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
12:12 pm

“Tools whose primary purpose is to kill people do not need to be widespread”

As long as the owners are law abiding it’s none of your business. And a tool doesn’t need to have a primary purpose of killing to be totally dangerous AS a killing weapon. Cars, for example, kill around 30,000 to 40,000 people per year. Guns are used to kill, what? A third of that maybe. So why is there a call to restrict guns, but not cars? Both are tools that can kill people when in the wrong hands. It is the HANDS that are the problem, not the tools.

saywhat?

December 16th, 2012
12:13 pm

ricardus

December 16th, 2012
11:57 am
I predicted columns like this as events were unfolding on Friday.
——————————————————-
Well thank you, thank you, thank you, Captain Obvious for coming to our rescue with your superpowers of perspicacity.

getalife

December 16th, 2012
12:13 pm

You need the military, their weapons and war strategy to beat a government turning on it’s people.

Our guns are for home self defense not taking on a government.

indigo

December 16th, 2012
12:14 pm

I just finished watching the morning talk shows on TV.

The Democratic liberals all said these shootings are unacceptable and offered various ways to address this problem.

The Republican conservatives basically said “there’s nothing we can do – live with it”.

It’s clear the Democrats want to protect human lives.

It’s clear the Republicans want to protect corporate profits.

“by their fruits you shall know them”

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
12:14 pm

“Are you sure?”

Yes. Used to be the British police were not armed with guns, because the thinking was that if the criminals did not fear being shot they would be much less likely to carry and use guns. The police are armed now. Why?

Doggone/GA

December 16th, 2012
12:15 pm

“but on the hand does any private citizen need an assault rifle?”

I bet I’ve said this a hundred times already: as long as the citizen is law abiding it doesn’t MATTER if YOU think there’s no “need” It’s none of your business.

getalife

December 16th, 2012
12:16 pm

indigo,

Did you expect the gop to change?

Their whole existence is to fight change.