Newtown massacre reawakens question of gun control
The United States suffers more gun deaths and mass shootings than any other major industrialized country. It’s not even close. And of the dozen most deadly mass killings in U.S. history, half have occurred within the past five years. In other words, if you believe that these things are happening more and more often, the numbers validate that belief.
The question is why.
The NRA and its supporters say the problem is not easy access to guns. To the contrary, they often argue that the problem is a shortage of guns. If only we had more guns in circulation, fewer would die. The day before the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the Michigan Legislature embraced that theory in passing a law allowing those with concealed carry permits to possess weapons in schools, churches and other formerly gun-free areas. Michigan’s governor has yet to say whether he intends to sign such a bill.
However, there is no evidence to support the NRA’s contention. Those countries with much lower death rates do not achieve those rates by allowing free and easy access to guns by almost everybody, regardless of training. Quite the contrary. Those few countries in which guns are even more ubiquitous than the United States — countries such as Iraq — have much higher death rates.
In addition, gun laws are more lax here in the South and guns themselves are more numerous. Under the NRA theory, that ought to produce a more civil, less violent society. The data say otherwise:
On the other hand, those who turn reflexively to gun control as an answer must acknowledge the inadequacies of that approach as well. Yesterday’s school shooting took place in Connecticut, a state with strong gun-control laws. The pistols that were used — a Sig Sauer and a Glock of undetermined model — had been legally obtained and were registered to Nancy Lanza, the late mother of the 20-year-old shooter. It has been widely reported that a Bushmaster .223 assault weapon — a version of the AR-15 — was found in the trunk of the vehicle driven by Adam Lanza to the school. However, Lt. Paul Vance of the Connecticut state patrol said at a press conference this morning that all recovered weapons were found in close proximity to Lanza’s body.
The high kill rate in the shootings — only one person was wounded and survived — suggests Lanza was experienced with firearms. But based on what we know now, it is hard to explain in concrete, direct fashion how any reasonable set of changes to our gun laws would have prevented Friday’s tragedy.
For example, I have not been able to find any more specific information about the types of pistols used in the attack, or whether those pistols or the Bushmaster were equipped with high-capacity magazines. As a practical matter, outlawing pistols would not be feasible given how many are already in circulation. It would also be impossible politically. Outlawing high-capacity magazines might be another matter, but again, as of yet we have no indication they played a role in this attack.
Guns are inanimate objects. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. I accept all of that as fact. However, I would have no problem whatsoever with again outlawing military-style assault weapons. Neither would the U.S. Supreme Court, even based on its most recent pro-gun rulings.
As gun supporters point out, and accurately so, other semi-automatic weapons are capable of delivering the same high fire rate as those described as assault weapons. It is striking, however, that these “other” weapons do not typically show up in the hands of mass murderers such as Adam Lanza. The military-style design of assault weapons may be superficial, but it gives them a powerful mystique to weak-minded souls pursuing visions of vengeance and power.
Speaking in general, rather than in reaction to the Newtown strategy, it is reasonable to propose that the legal ability to purchase and possess deadly firearms be linked to training and testing on the responsible use of such weapons. That would be a regulation of people, not of guns. Such proposals would nonetheless be fought bitterly by the NRA because they would reduce gun sales, and the NRA is in many ways nothing more than a front for its gun-industry sponsors.
Such laws would in no way infringe on constitutional rights as outlined in the Second Amendment and Supreme Court opinions. The millions of law-abiding, responsible gun owners in this country would have nothing to fear from such a system. In fact, as the NRA often points out correctly, those gun owners who have gone through the steps required to obtain a concealed carry permit rarely use those guns in crime. That record suggests a possible path forward for those who recognize both the constitutional right to possess firearms and the necessity of mitigating the damage done when those guns fall into the wrong hands.
– Jay Bookman
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1,704 comments Add your comment
Recon 0311 2533
December 15th, 2012
8:01 pm
I’m not a mental health expert but I’ve heard experts say that recognizing the potential for violent behavior and reversing the predisposition is possible and that many of the mass murders we’ve seen could have been prevented with a more proactive mental health system.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:04 pm
The ideal is to protect life. Ask the family members of the dead if those of us who see the result should not be heeded.
As for cars, TD I am not aware of people being robbed by crooks with dangerous cars. I am not aware of anyone driving a car into a school and killing 27 people as they wore ballistic protective gear. A car is a object with which people traverse back and forth. It is not an object which by its very existence is intended to kill when it is used.
As a conservative I understand what you base your argument on. I can’t understand fighting against a logical response to gun violence or a preventative approach to it.
Bro,
I would never suggest that LEO’s right law. I would suggest that LEO’s be heeded when they speak to the actual violence we see. We should be looked at as experts on the very violence at issue.
By that our legislatures should listen to those who know the result.
If you want to know about war ask a solider, want to know about baking ask a cook want to know about murder and gun violence ask a homicide detective.
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:05 pm
I hate to admit it but I have no answer of how to solve this problem. Neither does anyone else.
Absolutely agreed, with one change. I don’t hate to admit it, I love it. Because that is how huge this question is. Those who reduce it – along the other great questions of our times – to simplistic slogans, are the people to be concerned about.
Questions like abortion.
The massive social movements of the 1960s and early 1970s–in particular the movement for women’s liberation–created the context for the Supreme Court to uphold abortion as a constitutional right for women in 1973.
After Roe v. Wade made abortion legal, women’s health improved significantly. Entire wards of hospitals dedicated to aiding women suffering from complications from botched abortions could be devoted to other uses. In New York City, after abortion was legalized in 1970, maternal mortality dropped by 45 percent. Women were finally freed from the terror of the back alley.
Under capitalism, women cannot be equal to men without having control over reproduction. Ultimately, women bear the physical, emotional and financial burden of bearing and raising a child. And women–working-class women in particular–bear a “double burden” of both wage labor at work and domestic labor at home. This dynamic drives the sexism that permeates our society.
Any fundamental challenge to the inequality faced by women must have the struggle for women’s reproductive rights at its core.
http://tinyurl.com/4mb2tnl
josef
December 15th, 2012
8:05 pm
catlady
“We routinely give tacit approval to bullies at school by not holding them accountable–too many lawsuits.”
No. We do not. We confront it each and every time we see it or it is brought to our attention. I know. I work there.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:06 pm
Write law not right law, but you knew
Recon 0311 2533
December 15th, 2012
8:06 pm
“it’s the “someone should do something” argument.”
Gee Doggone anti-social behavior can result in crimes against society. Is that too difficult to grasp?
barking frog
December 15th, 2012
8:06 pm
o.k. send home a letter to parents from school, each year your child must
be examined by a psychiatrist before he/she can enter school.
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:07 pm
“The finding of guilty by a judge or jury means that a defendant’s mind was able to determine right from wrong and did wrong”
yes, and I disagree with it. to me a “guilty” finding should mean the person did the deed. The “but insane” mitigates it and should alter the sentence from punishment to treatment.
Ronald Reagan
December 15th, 2012
8:08 pm
Video games & action movies set the stage for situations like this.
josef
December 15th, 2012
8:08 pm
FROG
@ 8:06
Point.
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
8:09 pm
“I have seen many dead people. This includes adults as well as kids. There is simply no excuse for our society standing by holding onto an old constitutional attempt to possess our guns in fear of government suppression while our kids die using the very instrument we continually say gives us our freedom.”
Mama says,
Perhaps your time would be better spent in a campaign to outlaw and ban swimming pools. After all on average many more children die from swimming pools annually than from gun deaths.
As a matter of fact according to this renowned economist who did the numbers children are 100 times more likely to die drowning in a swimming pool than via gun death.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2001/07/27/levittpoolsvsguns/
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:10 pm
Bullying. Another antisocial behavior we no longer cast a completely blind eye to. We have taken the topic on. Good for us.
I know it does not sit well with the gloom and doomers, but lets not forget the great strides we are making as a people. And we are not going back.
td
December 15th, 2012
8:10 pm
All I have heard all day is that we need more laws to make sure this type of thing never happens again. Let us take a minute and look at current laws and what happened yesterday:
Killer shot his mother (1) then stole three of her gun (2,3,4) then stole her truck (5) then illegally transported 3 weapons (5,6,7) then carried them to a school without a carry permit (8,9,10) broke into a school (11) and then carried the guns into a school (12,13,14) then shot 26 other people (15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40)
40 laws broken and none of these laws stopped those poor children from being killed.
Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.
December 15th, 2012
8:11 pm
@Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
7:44 pm
My experience has shown me that law abiding people are law abiding by virtue of there morals and ethics. Those who lack those virtues will threaten us regardless of the weapon of choice. We should not make it easier for those who would, to kill us.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Listen to your mama!!!
“A people that values its PRIVILEGES above its PRINCIPLES soon loses both.”
“If we are to go forward, we must go back and rediscover those precious values –
that all reality hinges on moral foundations and that all reality has spiritual control.”
josef
December 15th, 2012
8:14 pm
Okay, I can’t say a whole lot about this one, professional ethics at work. But I know of a situation which follows the logic and “do something about it” from the school house. In this particular situation, when I was asked in conference what advice to give the mother, my own comment was, well, not exactly what you think educators are supposed to be saying. “I’d advise her to lock her own bedroom door and bar it with the dresser every night.” I would have outside my professional capacity. Luckily we were at length, and I DO mean at length, able to convince the mother to seek counseling, that it was not her fault, and then, and this was by far and away the most difficult part of the task, find those resources and the funds to pay for them.
Just saying…
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:14 pm
Video games & action movies set the stage for situations like this.
Not exactly. It is their HUGE popularity that drives them.
The old chicken and egg argument.
But if there was no market for such violent filth – and lets be clear, that is what much of it is – it would not sell to the tune of billions of dollars annually.
I do my part to not be part of that market.
I enjoin others to do the same.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:15 pm
Vet,
The difference in reproductive equality that you will not face is that when a man exercises his right to reproduction decisions it is done so by virtue of a simple snip that is performed on him.
When a woman decides on abortion it effects more than just her body.
How a woman can equate an abortion to a mans reproduction decisions is amazing. Now if you wanted to argue that a woman should not have to get pregnant that would be different, but you will never hear a man say that it’s in his reproductive rights not to have a child. It’s impossible.
You are basically saying that you want more rights than a man. Unless of course you are arguing that a man should be able to demand the abortion of his child, regardless of the women’s desire.
Reproduction is by nature a two person thing. Equality means that both donors would have an equal say on the issue. I doubt that you support the right for me to force a women to have an abortion do you ?
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:15 pm
“Gee Doggone anti-social behavior can result in crimes against society. Is that too difficult to grasp”
WHAT anti-social behaviors do we need to control, and how would YOU suggest we control them?
Danny Bishop
December 15th, 2012
8:17 pm
If capital punishment is permitted under the 8th amendment, then there should be no problem.
Would this be more cruel than lethal injection?
Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.
December 15th, 2012
8:18 pm
@td
December 15th, 2012
8:10 pm
All I have heard all day is that we need more laws to make sure this type of thing never happens again. Let us take a minute and look at current laws and what happened yesterday:
Killer shot his mother (1) then stole three of her gun (2,3,4) then stole her truck (5) then illegally transported 3 weapons (5,6,7) then carried them to a school without a carry permit (8,9,10) broke into a school (11) and then carried the guns into a school (12,13,14) then shot 26 other people (15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40)
40 laws broken and none of these laws stopped those poor children from being killed.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
YOU ARE so busy doing nothing… that the idea of doing anything -
which as you know, always leads to something – cuts into the nothing
and then forces YOU to have to drop everything.
STOP doing NOTHING and it could LEAD TO SOMETHING.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:22 pm
Yeah right Thulsa,
Lets ban jelly beans also, we know you can choke on them.
Listen people I am telling you the facts. I have investigated many many more shooting deaths than pool drownings. You can make these stupid comparisons if you wish but if you feel like it give me your phone number, I will call you every time we have a gun death. Then you can compare swimming pools to the tragedy that our kids face hourly.
Right now somewhere in each of our metro counties a child has a gun in his hand. Tonight while you sleep at least two of our local police departments will respond to a child related death or shooting.
swimming pools ?
That’s sad
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:23 pm
“STOP doing NOTHING and it could LEAD TO SOMETHING”
and what have YOU done about it?
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:23 pm
I doubt that you support the right for me to force a women to have an abortion do you ?
Hello? Is this thing on? Have you even been reading what I’ve been writing???
You seem confused. Given that you apparently think you can decide what I am “basically saying”.
How about you just talk for yourself for starters and then let’s see what happens, OK?
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
8:27 pm
I would suggest that LEO’s be heeded when they speak to the actual violence we see. We should be looked at as experts on the very violence at issue.
By that our legislatures should listen to those who know the result.
I agree with you 100% on that. The biggest problem I see is getting legislators to listen to “government workers” when some of them push the idea of lazy government workers to get them elected into office. You can’t label somebody as worthless one week and then use them for SME testimony a month or two later. We’ve got to change our entire mindset about how we agree and disagree with each other first.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:28 pm
Sorry Jam, tell me what you are saying again please
Black Label
December 15th, 2012
8:31 pm
“That’s sad”
Sums up Thulsa Doom
David
December 15th, 2012
8:32 pm
Ok Jay, let’s suppose your recommendation of requiring training with the purchase of a firearm were law. Let’s also assume that Nancy Lanza had that training and was properly registered, or whatever other regulations you think are required. How would that have prevented her psychotic son from taking her gun and shooter her and all those poor children? It wouldn’t have made a single difference, now would it.
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
8:32 pm
Mama Says
Speaking of accidents, have you seen this safety message passed around yet?
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/06/04/soldier-mutilates-hand-by-hitting-50-caliber-round/
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:34 pm
Thank you Mama.
Read my 6:05 again.
There is no going back.
But I’m open to pragmatic suggestions.
(Pragmatism – a philosophical movement or system having various forms, but generally stressing practical consequences as constituting the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value.)
Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.
December 15th, 2012
8:35 pm
@Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:23 pm
“STOP doing NOTHING and it could LEAD TO SOMETHING”
and what have YOU done about it?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don’t own a gun nor do I want to own a gun.
That is a start.
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death ,
I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
AMEN
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 15th, 2012
8:37 pm
Under my scenario she wouldn’t even get to the background check stage before being turned away.
Yep, Fantasy land scenario.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
You cons out there want actual con ideas from me. Here is one.
You should have to serve your fellow citizens in some form or fashion.
That service use to be via our military. I suggest that he have a draft once again. This draft should be for mandatory police, fire or paramedic services. I promise when you are done you will not be so worried about your rights to have a gun but rather you will be demanding that we find a way to get guns out of our kids hands. Right now I know of no legal way for a child to get a gun, adults are being irresponsible with them, by virtue of directly giving them to kids or by virtue of not locking them up so they cannot be obtained.
My conservative principals dictate that I protect my kids from all threats. Since we cannot read a nutcases mind and know when he will kill, we must control the guns they are killing with.
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
“I don’t own a gun nor do I want to own a gun”
Neither do I
“AMEN”
So…what have you DONE that, as you said “could LEAD TO SOMETHING”?
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
You know I’m beginning to wonder if the advent of the loathed designated hitter explains this breakdown in society?
(Sorry, sometimes I just have to laugh to keep from crying…)
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:41 pm
“My conservative principals dictate that I protect my kids from all threats. Since we cannot read a nutcases mind and know when he will kill, we must control the guns they are killing with”
So you prefer the dream world of false security to facing the FACT that you CAN’T “protect my kids from all threats”?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 15th, 2012
8:41 pm
You know I’m beginning to wonder if the advent of the loathed designated hitter explains this breakdown in society?
Yes, along with the instant replay, sudden death overtime and coaches challenges.
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
8:42 pm
“You can make these stupid comparisons if you wish but if you feel like it give me your phone number, I will call you every time we have a gun death. Then you can compare swimming pools to the tragedy that our kids face hourly.”
How is it stupid? The facts are the facts sir. More children die from swimming pool drownings then gun deaths. And I didn’t even include drownings from lakes, ponds, rivers and streams, or the ocean. Just cause you don’t like it doesn’t make it true. Now the numbers probably change a bit when you you start adding up 16 and 17 year old “children” that are selling drugs, gangbanging, and carrying guns and doing drivebys. But for 10 year olds and under the pool is far more dangerous than ever being shot- and by a wide margin I might add.
“Right now somewhere in each of our metro counties a child has a gun in his hand. Tonight while you sleep at least two of our local police departments will respond to a child related death or shooting.swimming pools ?”
Then try and refute it. You can’t when it comes to small children. When it comes to 15-17 year old “childen” who are doing adult crimes you have a point. But are they really “children” when they’re doing drive by shootings as 17 year olds?
“That’s sad”
No. What’s sad is your inability and the inability of many others to understand that as a society we’ve made choices in life about risk and our rights, Life is not without risk. 45,000 people a year die in auto accidents. Is anyone talking about banning the automobile? No. Why? Because the loss to society is acceptable given the alternative which would be incredible inconvenience and loss of freedom if we banned the car. Same with guns.
Same with alchohol and cigarrettes. Alcohol abuse kills 75,000 Americans per year just via cirrhossis. tobacco kills an estimated 443,000 people a year. Why aren’t you complaining about that?
When the Hutus slaughtered 800,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates in Rwanda the main weapon was thousands of imported machetes and hoes because guns were too expensive. So in Rwanda do they now talk about banning machetes and hoes in a subsistence agrarian state because of what people did?
barking frog
December 15th, 2012
8:43 pm
Mama says
do you support a ban on all guns except for police and military?
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
8:43 pm
I suggest that he have a draft once again. This draft should be for mandatory police, fire or paramedic services.
I would feel bad for anybody who got drafted to become an EMT. I have friends who do that job, and the stories I hear always remind me why I did not follow that career path. I would rather run into a burning building before becoming an EMT.
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
8:47 pm
Mama, are you a veteran? (It’s really none of my beeswax and if you don’t answer, I understand.)
Conscription would, of course, be a gigantic mistake. Again, we’ve been there, done that recently. And I as recall, it really didn’t work out so great.
A volunteer service is the way to go…
seabeau
December 15th, 2012
8:49 pm
The Supreme Court rulled years ago that police are not compelled morally or legally to come to a citizens aid if the police think that their lives will be in danger Since all persons have the right of self defence,a total ban on firearms will never pass muster in any legal realm!
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:49 pm
We can protect everyone. As a conservative you should know that our penal system is failing us. If they were in jail or executed they would not be among us to harm us.
Until we really take a tough stance on violent crime crimes will continue to be violent.
It is a fantasy that we are protecting ourselves by having guns everywhere.
Yes you can cite some examples of there proper use but for every one you give I, given time can give you10 in which the gun was of no use or was turned against the owner.
Bro,
We have professionals among us that have issues with proper gun handling techniques. How we excepts the citizens to operate them safely is unknown to me.
josef
December 15th, 2012
8:50 pm
ZamVet
From last night…I never saw you answer and inquiring minds want to know. Do the voices in your head speak Hebrew…
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
8:52 pm
“You should have to serve your fellow citizens in some form or fashion.”
Well when people like you start dictating that we “should have to” serve other citizens then it no longer becomes “serving” because you are then dictating that we have to do something. So when did you decide taking away some of someone’s freedom’s freedom by forcing them “serve” their fellow citizens is okay? Is it because it just jives with your ideology of making them cons do something?
And btw the taxes we pay serves plenty of people in the way of social welfare programs. And many of us voluntarily give to charity in the way of money and time.
“That service use to be via our military. I suggest that he have a draft once again. ” That’s fine but if you will notice many of the cons on here- myself, recon, scout, and many others have already served.
indigo
December 15th, 2012
8:53 pm
Doom – 8:42
I think you’d be happy if we just completely did away with all gun laws.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 15th, 2012
8:53 pm
Do the voices in your head speak Hebrew…
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
8:55 pm
So you prefer the dream world of false security to facing the FACT that you CAN’T “protect my kids from all threats”?
Dog, you have been a real trouper defending the rights of freedom loving citizens here over the last 36 hours and I, for one, appreciate it. They’re going to “Do Something”, probably something as asinine as making grandma take her shoes off before she gets on an airliner, but they so need to feel that they did something.
I stayed out of the gun control debates today and instead went toe to toe with the Facebook posters that blamed yesterdays tragedy on the US Supreme Court, Engel v. Vitale (1962). If only God and Jesus weren’t locked out the school, the tragedy would never have happened, was a common theme of the day. God and Jesus should have broke out a window and came on in like the murderous SOB did.
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
8:56 pm
Black Label ,
Kook sock puppet.
barking frog
December 15th, 2012
8:56 pm
josef
if the voices in jamvets head do not speak hebrew can hebe
a true jew ?
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
8:57 pm
Jam,
I am not, I did loose my stepfather to the Viet Cong.
I cannot address conscription for national war purposes. What do feel is that we lost a lot when we stopped requiring a commitment to our country by our kids. They have no idea of hardship as it applies to national health and prosperity.
They therefore grow up without a connection to the realities that take place daily in our streets.
We have people talking about gun violence who have never seen a gun shot much less the results.
We have to bring empathy to the result of gun violence and stop speaking to it without having seen the result.
I promise after two or three kids even the most harden con would start to ask the question, what the hell are we doing ?
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
8:57 pm
“I think you’d be happy if we just completely did away with all gun laws.”
Indigo,
And why would you think that?
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:58 pm
Thanks gh. Not being a gun enthusiast myself, I never gave gun control much thought either way. Then I started watching “Sons of Guns” and quickly began to realize that their enthusiasm for guns was not so very much different from my enthusiasm for dogs.
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
8:58 pm
How we excepts the citizens to operate them safely is unknown to me.
I don’t expect them to myself, but you bring up a point there. That’s why I always stress training and re-training when it comes to weapons.
————————-
josef
josef
December 15th, 2012
8:59 pm
FROG
indigo
December 15th, 2012
9:00 pm
Why didn’t you just say “yes, that’s correct, or “no, that’s not correct”?
Your being evasive, just as I knew you would be.
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:02 pm
“I have friends who do that job, and the stories I hear always remind me why I did not follow that career path. ”
I have a client who was an EMT and it was at Grady. The stories that man has are nothing short of unreal. And often sad. He made a point of telling me that ya never see EMTs over 50. Why? Burnout. Too much bad shyte that they see.
Victor Midtown
December 15th, 2012
9:02 pm
Shut down the blatantly and unapologetically violent video games.
Movies where the slaughter is deliciously overdone.
We are raising a generation of desensitised kids.
Ban assault weapons.
The gun is not the only problem!!!!
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
9:02 pm
LOL jonix! Only at certain times and occasions.
Like now…
Hanneirot hallalu anachnu madlikin ‘al hannissim ve’al hanniflaot ‘al hatteshu’ot ve’al hammilchamot she’asita laavoteinu bayyamim haheim, (u)bazzeman hazeh ‘al yedei kohanekha hakkedoshim. Vekhol-shemonat yemei Hanukkah hanneirot hallalu kodesh heim, ve-ein lanu reshut lehishtammesh baheim ella lir’otam bilvad kedei lehodot ul’halleil leshimcha haggadol ‘al nissekha ve’al nifleotekha ve’al yeshu’otekha.
We light these lights for the miracles and the wonders, for the redemption and the battles that you made for our forefathers, in those days at this season, through your holy priests. During all eight days of Hanukkah these lights are sacred, and we are not permitted to make ordinary use of them except for to look at them in order to express thanks and praise to Your great Name for Your miracles, Your wonders and Your salvations.
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
9:03 pm
josef
Your question to JamVet brought to mind something I told a passenger one day. The lady walked up to me and complimented me as the first custom’s officer she had ever encountered in the airport that was smiling. Without skipping a beat, I told her that I was smiling because the voices in my head were telling me jokes that I could actually understand because most of the time they spoke Spanish and I couldn’t understand what they were saying. The expression on her face was priceless when she heard what I said. When I told her I was joking, she laughed real hard and said she was going to have to do that one to her friends and such.
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
9:03 pm
“Shut down the blatantly and unapologetically violent video games.
Movies where the slaughter is deliciously overdone”
What are parents for?
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm
Thulsa,
Your contributions don’t mean crap to a dead kid. So on this issue you can just keep your money.
How many dead kids have you seen ? How many with a bullet in their head ? or the results thereof? I seek to protect society from idiots, of which you may be one to watch. To make stupid statements had been my domain alone but I must admit you are trying hard to unseat me.
Every person employed in all our government services are searing you and all others trying to keep you safe. To call me a dictator without a clue of what you speak is the very problem with this country.
By the way try giving me am answer to he violence rather than condemning me for trying.
I would love to see you in south west Atlanta by yourself at midnight.
Just sit back and the people you have serving you will clean them up off the streets so you can hide by your swimming pool sucking your mint tulip
barking frog
December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm
josef http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYIjFtPQEk
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm
Indigo,
I’ve no problem with reasonable gun laws. After all I don’t want people like Timothy Mcveigh to be able to buy heat seeking missiles to take down jetliners. Why do you think I would oppose reasonable and prudent gun laws.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm
How is it stupid? The facts are the facts sir. More children die from swimming pool drownings then gun deaths.
Thulsa: They are all about taking away the rights of others to engage in activities they don’t like.
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm
He made a point of telling me that ya never see EMTs over 50. Why? Burnout. Too much bad shyte that they see.
Yep.
Victor Midtown
December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm
If you think parents can effectively lock down their kids from societal influences, you’re mistake. They should and most do. But many do not.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
9:05 pm
By the way Thulsa did you get a permit or permission to fill your swimming pool up ?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:07 pm
Thanks gh.
Don’t get that much here. I’m framing it.
josef
December 15th, 2012
9:09 pm
ZamVet
Yep. Here, too. They tried to kill us. We survived. Let’s eat!
BROSEPHUS
I’ve got to remember that one!
JamVet
December 15th, 2012
9:09 pm
Mama, sorry about your stepdad.
Patriotism seems a mysterious thing, doesn’t it?
Forcing people to be patriotic (by serving in uniform, for example) or celibate or “straight” seems folly to me.
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
9:11 pm
godless: Dog, you have been a real trouper defending the rights of freedom loving citizens here over the last 36 hours and I, for one, appreciate it.
It’s interesting around here when you actually pay attention to what people say as opposed to instinctively broad brushing them, huh? Hope you didn’t treat them too bad on Facebook.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:11 pm
Forcing people to be patriotic (by serving in uniform, for example) or celibate or “straight” seems folly to me.
Word.
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
9:12 pm
Thanks Jam,
Best man and father figure I ever had.
As for service I just want people to see what they talk about
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
9:13 pm
Good night all
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:14 pm
Hope you didn’t treat them too bad on Facebook.
Of course not. They were “friends” after all. Sometimes, you just have to point out to folks that not everyone believes the same things that they do.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 15th, 2012
9:14 pm
As has so often been the case, Doom’s “facts” are wrong:
The latest data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that 3,184 children and teens died from gunfire in the United States in 2006—a 6 percent increase from 2005.
http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/protect-children-not-guns-report-2009.html
In 2006, approximately 1100 US children younger than 20 years died from drowning
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/1/e253
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:17 pm
“How many dead kids have you seen ? How many with a bullet in their head ? or the results thereof?”
And how is that relevant? Its not.
” I seek to protect society from idiots, of which you may be one to watch. ”
Why? Because you don’t like my free speech. That’s quite a fascist statement there buddy.
“To make stupid statements had been my domain alone but I must admit you are trying hard to unseat me.”
Naw. You’re still comfortably ahead. Wayyyyyy ahead.
“Every person employed in all our government services are searing you and all others trying to keep you safe. ”
Yes. My brother is one of them as a colonel who has been to Iraq and in both wars.
“To call me a dictator without a clue of what you speak is the very problem with this country.”
Well if the shoe fits. When you start declaring what people “should have to do” because it fits your ideology then that’s quite dictatorial. How is it not?
“By the way try giving me am answer to he violence rather than condemning me for trying.”
There is no answer to a madman gone nuts. As for the regular violence you see in sw Atlanta there is going to have to be a change in the culture of the people that live there before you’ll see an improvement. And I can’t do that. They have to do it themselves.
“I would love to see you in south west Atlanta by yourself at midnight.”
Been down there plenty of times. And at night. I have clients down there. And years and years back I worked part time for a friend’s business cleaning carpets at Wendy’s franchises. The one down near Greenbriar mall area and another one over near Morehouse I think it was. I was often there by myself, after midnight.
“Just sit back and the people you have serving you will clean them up off the streets so you can hide by your swimming pool sucking your mint tulip”
Sounds like you either don’t like your job or you think everyone that disagrees with you is a mint tulip sucking country club Republican. My suggestion is 2 fold- 1- quit your damn job if you don’t like it and 2- quit making such sweeping judgments about people you know nothing about their life’s experiences.
josef
December 15th, 2012
9:17 pm
FROG
Unmentionable says to tell you, yep. They tried to remove us. We’re still here. Let’s eat!
I have posted this before, but that was one of the songs they sang as they set off on the Trail, bidding farewell to their homes…
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:19 pm
3,184 children and teens died from gunfire
And how many were gang-bangers?
barking frog
December 15th, 2012
9:20 pm
josef
the language of the uncivilized in a song of the civilized….
Shortage of guns?........Tell that to the 20 children that were MURDERED.
December 15th, 2012
9:21 pm
@Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
8:39 pm
“I don’t own a gun nor do I want to own a gun”
Neither do I
“AMEN”
So…what have you DONE that, as you said “could LEAD TO SOMETHING”?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I GOT YOUR ATTENTION!!!!!
“The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”
GOOD NIGHT
indigo
December 15th, 2012
9:22 pm
doom – 9:20
Because, like so many others here, you’ve been stressing how dangerous things besides guns are. Reading between the lines, I don’t you’d have much of a problem with no gun laws period.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:24 pm
In Chapter 5 of Freakonomics, which explores the art and science of parenting, we pose this question: Which is more dangerous, a gun or a swimming pool? It turns out that far more children die each year in swimming pool accidents than in gun incidents.
It’s referenced in the book.
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
9:24 pm
“I GOT YOUR ATTENTION!!!!!”
sorry, you had nothing to do with it
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:26 pm
“As has so often been the case, Doom’s “facts” are wrong”
Nope. I told him that children and specifically children under 10 as my article points out are at far greater risk of drowning in a pool than dying by gun.
Now allow me to help you out with you failure in critical reading and critical thinking skills. Your link mentions children and teens and includes 18 and 19 year olds in its analysis. So my question to you is this. Are 18 and 19 year olds “children” or adults??? Try again.
josef
December 15th, 2012
9:26 pm
FROG
Another message from the Un…what’s with this “uncivilized? We were civilized, don’t you know. And look at what that got us!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8ETyOcDCE
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 15th, 2012
9:29 pm
Your link mentions children and teens and includes 18 and 19 year olds in its analysis.
And how many of those were using a gun themselves at the time of their unfortunate “accident”?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 15th, 2012
9:29 pm
Nope. It’s too foolish to even address further. Pure buffoonery
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:30 pm
“Reading between the lines, I don’t you’d have much of a problem with no gun laws period.”
Indigo,
And you’re failing miserably in your quest to read minds. I don’t own a gun, i never have and probably never will. I don’t really care for owning one and I will never, ever own a handgun. They’re fun to shoot but I don’t want one in the house- particulary a handgun. I might get a rifle at some point just to go out on my property and shoot bottles and cans but that’s about it. And it would be a wimpy little rifle even if i do that.
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:33 pm
I see I hammered keep yet again by pointing out that 18 and 19 year olds are not “children”. And what’s his response? Some muttering about buffoonery after I nailed him to the wall.
B
O
O
M
!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 15th, 2012
9:37 pm
People are trying to address tragic deaths and all you can do is post pure stupidity. You are a sad sad little boy Doom.
Repro
December 15th, 2012
9:39 pm
“Ban automatic weapons and an underground market will appear for them”.
This is a false argument being perpetrated by the gun proponents.
Reality shows that in the countries with gun bans, this has definitely not occurred. Ban the auto and semi-auto guns and they will become unavailable, period.
flagboy?
December 15th, 2012
9:40 pm
Mama Says
December 15th, 2012
9:04 pm
I seek to protect society from idiots
_______________________________________
There is no protection that exists for that.
Brosephus™
December 15th, 2012
9:40 pm
It’s time for me to bail out. The testosterone meter is red lining like something vicious here right about now. Y’all enjoy your pissing contest this evening, and be thankful that you’re alive to engage in it.
Later!!
barking frog
December 15th, 2012
9:40 pm
josef
i know, the uncivilized meshed well with the civilized. It was
the civilized that could not accept the blend and were in the
end the epitome of uncivilized.
Thulsa Doom
December 15th, 2012
9:41 pm
“People are trying to address tragic deaths and all you can do is post pure stupidity.”
The rantings of a pissed off lib whose argument just got laid to waste.
josef
December 15th, 2012
9:41 pm
Well, the good news is, after a day of soul searching, we’re back to something resembling normalcy here on Big Daddy’s veranda…cat fighting, nyah-nyanh, I won, and a lot of smilies…and, maybe that is a good thing…
Doggone/GA
December 15th, 2012
9:44 pm
“This is a false argument being perpetrated by the gun proponents”
Three words: Norway teens massacre
td
December 15th, 2012
9:45 pm
Instead of this debate about gun control we should all be celebrating this hero from yesterday.
Please forgive my Jay for posting the entire story but I think this one is worth it.
“Among the eight adults murdered yesterday along with the twenty school children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. was 27-year-young teacher Victoria Soto.
Victoria Soto will be forever remembered as a teacher who gave her life by shielding her first grade students from Adam Lanza’s gunfire with her own body.
Miss Soto taught at the school for 5 years and was remembered by one distraught 10-year-old former student as ‘really nice and funny’ according to Mail Online.
Soto’s cousin, Jim Wiltsie, told media that the teacher was shielding students and ushering them into a classroom closet “when she came face to face with the gunman. “
‘She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed,’ Mr Wiltsie said.
I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm,’ he continued.
‘It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero,’ he added.
It seems that Miss Soto was also sort of a young rebel in the classroom. She reportedly enjoyed chewing gum in class, which is something not normally allowed for teachers. Her students often teased her about the habit; and she playfully teased them back.
One of her young students, Jacob Riley, said that Victoria Soto was well-liked by all the students at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Most of the children killed were between the ages of 5 through 10, and were found in two classrooms.
Rest in peace Victoria Soto. Thank you.”
http://www.examiner.com/article/27-year-old-teacher-victoria-soto-died-shielding-students-with-her-own-body
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 15th, 2012
9:47 pm
Doom, why don’t you take your constant jackassery and trot along like the childish little boy you are. You cannot handle adult discussion or anything with intelligence it is clear.