Newtown massacre reawakens question of gun control
The United States suffers more gun deaths and mass shootings than any other major industrialized country. It’s not even close. And of the dozen most deadly mass killings in U.S. history, half have occurred within the past five years. In other words, if you believe that these things are happening more and more often, the numbers validate that belief.
The question is why.
The NRA and its supporters say the problem is not easy access to guns. To the contrary, they often argue that the problem is a shortage of guns. If only we had more guns in circulation, fewer would die. The day before the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the Michigan Legislature embraced that theory in passing a law allowing those with concealed carry permits to possess weapons in schools, churches and other formerly gun-free areas. Michigan’s governor has yet to say whether he intends to sign such a bill.
However, there is no evidence to support the NRA’s contention. Those countries with much lower death rates do not achieve those rates by allowing free and easy access to guns by almost everybody, regardless of training. Quite the contrary. Those few countries in which guns are even more ubiquitous than the United States — countries such as Iraq — have much higher death rates.
In addition, gun laws are more lax here in the South and guns themselves are more numerous. Under the NRA theory, that ought to produce a more civil, less violent society. The data say otherwise:
On the other hand, those who turn reflexively to gun control as an answer must acknowledge the inadequacies of that approach as well. Yesterday’s school shooting took place in Connecticut, a state with strong gun-control laws. The pistols that were used — a Sig Sauer and a Glock of undetermined model — had been legally obtained and were registered to Nancy Lanza, the late mother of the 20-year-old shooter. It has been widely reported that a Bushmaster .223 assault weapon — a version of the AR-15 — was found in the trunk of the vehicle driven by Adam Lanza to the school. However, Lt. Paul Vance of the Connecticut state patrol said at a press conference this morning that all recovered weapons were found in close proximity to Lanza’s body.
The high kill rate in the shootings — only one person was wounded and survived — suggests Lanza was experienced with firearms. But based on what we know now, it is hard to explain in concrete, direct fashion how any reasonable set of changes to our gun laws would have prevented Friday’s tragedy.
For example, I have not been able to find any more specific information about the types of pistols used in the attack, or whether those pistols or the Bushmaster were equipped with high-capacity magazines. As a practical matter, outlawing pistols would not be feasible given how many are already in circulation. It would also be impossible politically. Outlawing high-capacity magazines might be another matter, but again, as of yet we have no indication they played a role in this attack.
Guns are inanimate objects. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. I accept all of that as fact. However, I would have no problem whatsoever with again outlawing military-style assault weapons. Neither would the U.S. Supreme Court, even based on its most recent pro-gun rulings.
As gun supporters point out, and accurately so, other semi-automatic weapons are capable of delivering the same high fire rate as those described as assault weapons. It is striking, however, that these “other” weapons do not typically show up in the hands of mass murderers such as Adam Lanza. The military-style design of assault weapons may be superficial, but it gives them a powerful mystique to weak-minded souls pursuing visions of vengeance and power.
Speaking in general, rather than in reaction to the Newtown strategy, it is reasonable to propose that the legal ability to purchase and possess deadly firearms be linked to training and testing on the responsible use of such weapons. That would be a regulation of people, not of guns. Such proposals would nonetheless be fought bitterly by the NRA because they would reduce gun sales, and the NRA is in many ways nothing more than a front for its gun-industry sponsors.
Such laws would in no way infringe on constitutional rights as outlined in the Second Amendment and Supreme Court opinions. The millions of law-abiding, responsible gun owners in this country would have nothing to fear from such a system. In fact, as the NRA often points out correctly, those gun owners who have gone through the steps required to obtain a concealed carry permit rarely use those guns in crime. That record suggests a possible path forward for those who recognize both the constitutional right to possess firearms and the necessity of mitigating the damage done when those guns fall into the wrong hands.
– Jay Bookman
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1,704 comments Add your comment
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
6:27 pm
I’m as chill as rain in December.
Available evidence suggests otherwise.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
6:28 pm
What’s the poulation of Jamaica and what is their firearm murder rate?
I honestly don’t know nor do I care. I don’t live there nor do I have any intention of moving there. There are more than 300 million guns in the United States. No amount of gun control laws are going to do a thing to change that, especially if those laws encroach on Constitutional freedoms.
I hate to sound as if I’m being flippant or something, but I’m not. I simply believe that a country that was founded in and by violence, grew by violence, and enshrines violence in its culture will always have violent incidents that are beyond our control to completely stop.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 16th, 2012
6:28 pm
Well, nobody’s answered my question so far, so I’ll ask it. How come there wasn’t a single wounded survivor? I mean, in every mass shooting I ever heard of some people are killed and a few more are wounded. In this Conn. shooting where 26 people were killed, there wasn’t even one wounded person listed as in critical condition or took to a hospitle or whatever. Maybe I missed it. From what I can tell there was dozens of bullets flying around but not one of them nicked somebody or just made a flesh wound.
JamVet
December 16th, 2012
6:29 pm
Anti-war protesters are treated like traitors.
Nonviolence died off with some strange little Indian man and some black preacher.
Peace is passe and all talk of it is deprecated like some quaint, outdated, once useful concept.
War is still the greatest selling TV and movie theme there is.
Wanton violence floods over the airwaves like a tsunami. (And you rightists want to defund PBS?)
These atrocities are mere symptoms of the real problem.
We have a violence addiction…
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
6:30 pm
In my wife’s school system, an angry ex-spouse of a teacher showed up with a knife in his ex-wife’s classroom. The students tackled him and held him down until police arrived. How many people tried tackling this weekends shooter?
Don’t anybody try telling me all weapons are the same, and that guns don’t make the difference.
Good night.
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:30 pm
Willie
I understand what you are saying, but this is a many layered issue and one, quite frankly, has no easy solution. Blanket “cures” such as banning and confiscating all guns and overturning the 2nd Amendment are, in essence, parlor games. As I said, I’m a lifelong political pacifist. I want the swords beaten into ploughshares. But…
“When the last h bomb has done its stuff
And stilled for good the geiger counter’s voice,
Will come the moment of my dreadful choice.
Invent the peaceful wheel? Oh, dear me, no.
Let those who would assuage the general woe.
I plan to freeze my neighbors to the marrow
By reinventing the bow and arrow.”
indigo
December 16th, 2012
6:34 pm
Redneck
Apparently, the nut was an excellent shot with extensive experience at gun ranges.
hiram
December 16th, 2012
6:35 pm
Redneck Convert (R–and proud of it)
December 16th, 2012
6:28 pm
“Well, nobody’s answered my question so far, so I’ll ask it. How come there wasn’t a single wounded survivor?”
He shot all of them multiple times – women and little 5 and 6 year olds. He did this because he had the tools to do it. Had he been using a muzzle loader, the “arms” in mind when they crafted the second amendment, the adult women could have overpowered him. You have to be an idiot to not comprehend this. There is no valid argument.
getalife
December 16th, 2012
6:37 pm
“what are the chances of school security getting tweaked?”
They will probably send a cop to the schools for a while then back to business as usual.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
6:38 pm
sawhat?: Just keep making up excuses for why the ease of access to guns weren’t an integral part of the death of those 26 people.
And what excuses have I made? Please tell me. I have made no excuses. Because I don’t make any attempt to peddle this lala land stuff about how taking guns away will stop this stuff does not mean I’m making excuses for anything.
My personal attachment to guns is that a gun is simply a tool for my occupation just as a carpenter has a hammer or nail gun. If I have to use it, then I train to ensure that I can use it to save my life and whomever else around me is in danger. Due to the nature of my employment, I have a gun with me to ensure the safety of my family as well. I don’t always get to interact with upstanding moral citizens, so I would be a fool to think that I can simply take off my uniform and nobody’s going to bother me.
As to blowing people up, you should go back and read up on history. There have been numerous bombings of abortion clinics in the US. There was the OKC Federal building bombing. There’s the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing. The 9/11 plot originated as the Bojinka Plot in Indonesia as an attempt to bomb several US bound planes. The liquid ban in carry on baggage was due to a plot to bomb US bound planes from Europe. There was the attempted Times Square bombing. There’s the guy in Denver who was arrested planning backpack bombs on the NYC Subway system. There’s the Christmas Day attempted bombing in Detroit.
My job is to deal with security and threats to our security. You think you see stupidity, but I see far more than you’ll likely ever know. Sometimes, it’s a good thing to not be aware of everything around you.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
6:38 pm
“Looks like I also missed Jay’s appointing you as official “how to read and react to posts” person.”
If you don’t like what I have to say, the scroll bar works just fine
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:39 pm
Okay, I’ve got one for ya from “the front lines.” We had a parent come in one day who was a cop in uniform come to collect L’il One from the nurse’s office…his question at the check in point? What about my weapon? Really…he wasn’t there in his “official” capacity and the school is a weapons free zone up to and including no knife to cut the birthday cake. Yet he was still “on duty.”
What’s the answer?
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
6:42 pm
We’ve increased the speed of automobiles, and we’ve also increased the safety standards on manufacturers which has cut down the death rate in automobile collisions. We can do what we choose to.
The UK has almost 64 million people Jamaica has a population of almost 3 million but has a murder rate that far exceeds that of the UK and the US for that matter. The big difference between the UK and the US and Jamaica are stricter gun laws. That’s not too debatable.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
6:44 pm
getalife
you may be right but it is local and parents can pressure the
school board for improvements as needed. Security professionals
can establish guidelines and our president can restore the security
money. they can be fortresses and even have moats and drawbridges
and and be called dineelan…kids will love it.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
6:44 pm
What’s the answer?
By law, law enforcement is authorized to carry, even in schools which are considered weapon free zones.
hiram
December 16th, 2012
6:45 pm
As far as finding the money for trained, armed guards in Georgia’s schools, little kids lives are worth a hell of a lot more than a new football stadium, 30 million dollar tax breakes for Delta, or 4 million dollar gifts for Lake Lanier Islands.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
6:47 pm
josef 6:39
on duty but not on dispatch…check the weapon. not required i think
but advisable.
Oops
December 16th, 2012
6:47 pm
I just don’t have much to say about this
It’s just sad, and nothing can fix what has occurred
getalife
December 16th, 2012
6:48 pm
What’s the answer?
Offer him a job to protect the kids.
Oops
December 16th, 2012
6:50 pm
No one will ever be perfectly safe
Maybe the media should work on mitigating the sensationalism assigned to these events
It won’t stop it
But 24hr coverage for days and weeks won’t help matters
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
6:50 pm
I have yet to hear an answer for why we need guns?
If we were only allowed to have the things we need we wouldn’t have much, would we?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 16th, 2012
6:50 pm
A man was arrested Saturday after firing about 50 shots in the parking lot of a Southern California shopping mall, forcing a lockdown of stores crowded with holiday shoppers.
Cedar Lake police were called to the home of 60-year-old Von I. Meyer early Friday after he allegedly threatened to set his wife on fire. A police statement says Meyer also said he would enter Jane Ball Elementary School and “kill as many people as he could.” Authorities found 47 guns and ammunition worth over $100,000.
Its time to start the long road to getting this mess cleaned up.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
6:51 pm
saywhat? – “But I can say it with a very high degree of probability.” BS – evil is going to do what they want to do, regardless of the “weapon”.
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:52 pm
BROSEPHUS
Bingo, and move to the head of the class. And for the record, the gentleman in question was aware of that, of course…the point he, and I, was making was just how far do we carry this…this was right after the student was suspended for bringing in her collection of West African ceremonial artifacts which included knives…
Mike
December 16th, 2012
6:52 pm
If we banned guns totally, every street thug would be standing at stop lights robbing people as if they were working a drive thru window. You see, if the bad guys know I don’t have a gun, they will go wild. Mainly because they will still have their guns. Do any of you folks know what the “street” is really like?
I have a license to carry and I keep my pistol in my car at all times. In 15 years, I have never reached down to get it, but it is nice to know it is there.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
6:56 pm
willie lynch: How about we come over to your house and see what you have that you don’t “need”?
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
6:58 pm
josef –
“Okay, I’ve got one for ya from “the front lines.” We had a parent come in one day who was a cop in uniform come to collect L’il One from the nurse’s office…his question at the check in point? What about my weapon?”
If you’re at the point where you don’t trust uniformed officers (who are allowed to carry, on or off duty) in a school, someone has a problem, and it ain’t guns!
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
6:58 pm
“willie lynch: How about we come over to your house and see what you have that you don’t “need”?”
Now that sounds like a plan! Count me in on the party.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
6:58 pm
Keep up
I agree. I have been a gun owner all my life, but enough is enough.
Ban all guns and allow the police to eradicate them. Most will be surrendered
voluntarily and can be compensated. The police and military can use some
melt the rest. josef can do without bambi steak and exterminators can handle
the varmints. too many policemen are dying as well as civilians.
hiram
December 16th, 2012
7:00 pm
If this punk knew that he was going to encounter an armed guard monitoring surveillance cameras at the school, this would not have happened. Kids are our most valuable asset – more than any other entity, they deserve to be protected. Unemployed veterans are a perfect fit for the job. They are already trained and have the right stuff to deter these cowards. Put them back in uniform and arm them to the teeth.
Oops
December 16th, 2012
7:00 pm
We have 300 million guns in America already
Banning certain guns won’t do much
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:00 pm
“If you’re at the point where you don’t trust uniformed officers (who are allowed to carry, on or off duty) in a school, someone has a problem, and it ain’t guns!”
Are you saying it’s not possible for a cop to have mental problems?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/11/former-florida-cop-to-be-executed-for-murdering-people/
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
7:01 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
6:56 pm
Please elaborate.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
7:02 pm
josef
I’d guess that has to do with the extensive training that happens before and during the course of that officer’s career. As it was brought up earlier in this thread, the “shoot/don’t shoot” training is quite the experience. When you’re put into a stressful situation and have to make split second decisions, the possible ramifications are enough to stress the crap out of anybody. If you make the right decision, you’re the hero. A wrong decision could end up with an innocent person shot or even you losing your life.
If that training were something that was offered to the general public, I couldn’t stress enough of how that would likely make some people rethink the whole notion of being the “John Wayne Hero” and stuff.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:02 pm
Enter your comments here”If this punk knew that he was going to encounter an armed guard monitoring surveillance cameras at the school, this would not have happened”
Sure, because monitored banks NEVER get robbed, to they?
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:02 pm
Doggone – nope! So are you saying that there is a greater % of officers that have mental problems?
getalife
December 16th, 2012
7:03 pm
Our President shelved gun laws because he knows the gop will never pass it. I would ask the Dems what else they got.
The gop plan is the only plan on the table.
The gop plan is more guns at the schools.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:05 pm
“So are you saying that there is a greater % of officers that have mental problems?”
Nope. It doesn’t have to be a “greater %”…it only takes one.
hiram
December 16th, 2012
7:05 pm
At Doggone
They don’t have armed guards anymore…
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:06 pm
Ban all guns and allow the police to eradicate them.
Now that would be fun. /sarc
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:06 pm
There are no guns in prisons where the bad guys live even if
you are a policeman. Surely we could manage that here.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
7:07 pm
Doggone and godless, thank you for exhibitting what many have spoken of. I guess the mentally ill will identify themselves sooner or later.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
7:07 pm
hiram @ 7:00
http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2012?ref=sidebar
Line of Duty Deaths: 118
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 1
Automobile accident: 24
Duty related illness: 4
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 42
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 7
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 4
Stabbed: 5
Struck by vehicle: 6
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 11
And that’s only the officers that have been lost in the line of duty in 2012. Not saying that an armed officer would have prevented this incident, but there’s no guarantee that it would. If someone’s intent on causing mass casualties in this manner, the officer is usually target #1 if the gunman sees the officer before the officer knows what’s about to happen.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:07 pm
Oh, come on get! Really, you honestly think a political party is advocating more guns in schools?
Okay, okay, okay, you hate the gop/cons – regardless of what the alternative view/position is – got it.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:08 pm
willie lynch: Please elaborate.
Easy. Who the ef are you to decide what I need? Unless you are willing to let me decide what YOU need?
Oops
December 16th, 2012
7:08 pm
Thank god someone is going after Obama on this
“The U.S. Government on Friday asked a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit over the killing of three American citizens in drone strikes in Yemen earlier this year: alleged Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula leader Anwar Al-Awlaki, his son Abdulrahman, and alleged AQAP magazine editor Samir Khan.
The administration also threatened to invoke the State Secrets Privilege if the suit is not dismissed on other grounds. The privilege, which 2008 presidential candidate Barack Obama regularly blasted the Bush administration for invoking, allows the government to seek dismissal of a suit if it could expose national security secrets.”
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:11 pm
Doggone – you made my point. How’re ya gonna stop the “one”? Nobody can. As I mentioned earlier, 99.9% of the people in this country are good and want to do the right thing. There is 1% that are the exact opposite – good luck fixing that issue.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
7:11 pm
There are no guns in prisons where the bad guys live even if
you are a policeman.
Guard towers are typically housing rifles and/or shotguns. Vehicles patrolling the perimeter are armed as well. There’s usually a special response team that’s equipped with everything necessary to squash a rebellion inside too. You don’t see the guns in prisons, but they are all around you.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
7:11 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:08 pm
So you need a gun?
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:12 pm
“The U.S. Government on Friday asked a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit over the killing of three American citizens in drone strikes in Yemen earlier this year:”
Were they in an elementary school?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
7:12 pm
Oops
December 16th, 2012
6:47 pm
I just don’t have much to say about this
It’s just sad, and nothing can fix what has occurred
Available evidence suggests otherwise.
Oops
December 16th, 2012
7:12 pm
“U.S. District Court Judge John Bates agreed that the dispute was not one well-suited to the courts, but he acknowledged that the suit raised serious questions. He pointed out the odd fact that the government would need judicial approval to wiretap Al-Awlaki but appeared to need no such approval to kill him.”
Bingo.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:13 pm
“Doggone – you made my point. How’re ya gonna stop the “one”? Nobody can”
Hon, it’s not YOUR point. If you take the time to scroll back a few pages you’ll see whose been making that point since yesterday afternoon.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:14 pm
Doggone – meant to say “.1%”
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:14 pm
“Sure, because monitored banks NEVER get robbed, to they?”
Good point. Awareness is part of the answer. Cameras and armed guards only work if someone is actually watching the cameras and the armed guard doesn’t get lulled into pacificity because something like this happens so seldom. Let’s face it- schools will review their plans, have a drill, and talk about it for a few weeks. Then it will be back to “normal”…whatever that is these days.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:17 pm
“Then it will be back to “normal”…whatever that is these days.”
Well, life DOES return to normal. It has to. People can’t stay in a stressed state for long periods. That way lies an early death.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:18 pm
“Hon” – didn’t have time to go back “a few pages”. So be it, I think, in spirit, we are in agreement, just differences in the details. Fair enough.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:19 pm
I need to own a gun, just because it p*sses willie lynch off, that as a free, law-abiding citizen, I can.
I might go buy another one tomorrow. A black, military style high powered assault rifle and a couple of high capacity clips. I might get some of them full-metal jacket bullets, too.
.
When frog sends the cops over to eradicate my guns, I want it to be worth their time.
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:19 pm
USA Patriot: part of the problem is that for too long we’ve just overlooked the “odd” ones in our midst. You know, the guy down the street that is always cranky and everyone knows has an arsenal for the apocalypse or the kid who’s just kinda quiet and “goth” and basically everyone knows but nobody spends any time with. Most of the time when this happens, the next door neighbors don’t even know anything about the person. Then the question becomes, how do we know who’s just cranky or quiet and who might actually be planning something like this?
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
7:20 pm
godless
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:21 pm
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
7:11 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:08 pm
So you need a gun?
As much as you need to post your opinions on an Internet blog?
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:21 pm
“I need to own a gun, just because it p*sses willie lynch off”
That’s the best reason I’ve seen yet to own one. Maybe I’ll rethink my “no plans to ever own one” attitude.
josef
December 16th, 2012
7:21 pm
RF
) is saying to take in to that review. Some good ideas, but mostly a lot of venting and hot air with no real “solution.” Besides, my question right now is what we can do to improve security on hall X, our most vulnerable spot…
Yes, We will review our plans. And then it will be back to normal. One of the reasons I’ve been here so much this weekend was to listen to what the general public (well, at least the social malcontent element
My suggestion? Put Ms D there…she was career military security before retiring and coming to the classroom…
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:21 pm
Doggone/GA
I think i got your points:
Almost anyone can have any gun they want due to the 2nd amendment
Have schoolkids throw toys at gunmen in schools
always have a counterpoint
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:21 pm
RF – And you’re proposing to “fix” this how?
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:21 pm
“That way lies an early death.”
Yes it does, indeed.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:22 pm
“Then the question becomes, how do we know who’s just cranky or quiet and who might actually be planning something like this?”
and the next question is: what do you suggest we do about them?
josef
December 16th, 2012
7:23 pm
HEATHEN
@ 7:19
Dibs on the Bambi tenderloin!
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:24 pm
“I think i got your points:”
No, you don’t.
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:24 pm
USA Patriot: got no fix for it. That’s what I’m saying- there’s no clear-cut way to determine who to watch. All we can do is listen and hope the fool will discuss it or write something online that gives us a clue. I said earlier today that reporting those threats, while not a perfect system, is perhaps one way to help stop some of this before it happens. There are no easy solutions.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:25 pm
When frog sends the cops over to eradicate my guns, I want it to be worth their time.
………………………………………………….
i have no power over the police, but if they show up, call me
i’d like to watch as i am not a pacifist..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
7:26 pm
I might go buy another one tomorrow. A black, military style high powered assault rifle and a couple of high capacity clips. I might get some of them full-metal jacket bullets, too.
As is your right, but I think that you will find the availability down and the prices sky high.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
7:26 pm
godless,
Your reasoning reminds me of the query “Why do a dog lick his b*lls? Because he can. Freedom. I guess you do too since you’re free to.
I’m not least bit upset that you own a gun. My question has been the same throughout why do we need guns?
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:27 pm
doggone/ga
I think i got your points:”
No, you don’t.
…………………………………….
care to enumerate them then
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:27 pm
josef:
That’s probably what a lot of us will do. We have admins officed in several locations in the building, so that provides some help at least organizing the response. I’ll just go on keeping my door closed and locked like I have for years. That’s really about all anyone can do. I had an admin tell us last year we needed to unlock our doors and keep all windows clear. I reminded him that he has a master key and he is welcome to come in any time, but I preferred to keep it locked. It keeps kids from wandering in and would at least slow down an intruder long enough to maybe get a few more kids out of the way. Not much else we can do unless we start making our schools look like the local jail.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
7:28 pm
…why do we need guns?
Why do we “need” golf clubs?
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:28 pm
“My question has been the same throughout why do we need guns?”
No one is obligated to justify their enthusiasms to YOU.
hiram
December 16th, 2012
7:29 pm
This is the 21st century, not the 18th century – we have proven tools. Ever hear of facial recognition software? Schools are static – same staff, same students, same parents. When someone approaches the school, who’s not in the system, an alarm is sounded. The armed guard is alerted to the exact location. It’s not science fiction – it’s real – it’s affordable, and it’s worth it.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
7:29 pm
RF – Agreed “There are no easy solutions.” – My position is, imposing laws/rules/regulations on 99.9% of the law abiding / good people in this country does absolutely nothing to “fix” the problems of the .1%. And, agreed again, recognizing and have the gonads to address a “threat” goes much further.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 16th, 2012
7:29 pm
As is your right, but I think that you will find the availability down and the prices sky high.
True that. It was already hard enough to find handloading components, I can imagine it will be getting worse. Is Remington publicly traded?
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:30 pm
Why do we “need” golf clubs?
…………………
to contain the golf clap.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:30 pm
“care to enumerate them then”
No need. They’re all recorded on previous pages.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
7:31 pm
Y’all have a good evening… I’ve read enough for the day.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
7:32 pm
As long as terrorists use guns here in the US they’re protected and defended by the second amendment. It’s only a problem when they use weapons of mass destruction.
josef
December 16th, 2012
7:32 pm
So, what is on my agenda tomorrow? I’m front office, initial point of contact. It will be something out of a front lines checkpoint, with attention to the minutiae of security protocol. Not because I’m paranoid and expecting a gunman, but to reassure the parents that we are, indeed, “taking care of business.” And it ought to be “fun.” It’s the Holiday Season (ssshh…Baby Jesus’ Birthday
) and they’ll be parents galore bringing in plates of goodies…oh, yes, and I’ll laugh and smile a lot when getting the snot nosed little hugs…
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:33 pm
“I’m not least bit upset that you own a gun. My question has been the same throughout why do we need guns?”
willie: just don’t ask that question. Even if it were relevant, you won’t get an answer here or anywhere else other than “because I can”, “because I want to”, or “it’s none of your business.” That, for better or worse, is the American way. Pandora’s gun case is opened and sho’ ain’t gonna get closed. Even if it did, you’d only make them more, not less, desirable, and a whole lot harder to trace and keep track of than they are now.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
7:33 pm
…I can imagine it will be getting worse.
I plan on going to the range within the next couple of weeks so I picked up 150 rounds Thursday. After the Colorado theater shooting, it was very difficult finding rounds.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
7:34 pm
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:28 pm
I thought this was a discussion forum. Are you sure how this works?
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:34 pm
doggone/ga
“care to enumerate them then”
No need. They’re all recorded on previous pages
…………………………………………
i read all the pages and i saw none other than those i listed.
josef
December 16th, 2012
7:34 pm
HIRAM
I assume you do not work in a school…
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:36 pm
“willie: just don’t ask that question”
Shoot, let him keep asking. There’s no NEED for him to keep asking, but it’s OK that he does. That’s what our freedoms mean.
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2012
7:36 pm
Think it through …………. then a future murderer might be even more lethal with that weapon.
I have thought it through. This potential problem would be more than mitigated by the dropoff in casual handgun ownership, which would result in fewer guns in circulation, ultimately. Just a theory though.
RF
December 16th, 2012
7:37 pm
“and they’ll be parents galore bringing in plates of goodies…oh, yes, and I’ll laugh and smile a lot when getting the snot nosed little hugs…”
Times of year like this I think I should have stuck with elementary ed. High schoolers don’t bring the goodies like that. It’s not “cool” by that age!
luangtom
December 16th, 2012
7:39 pm
Someone earlier wrote that complex problems do not have simple answers. How true that is. To knee-jerk legislation as a reaction to this atrocity is the simple solution to a complex problem. Look at cities like Chicago, our President’s adopted home-town, or Washington, DC. Both have very restrictive and prohibitive firearms laws. Yet, both rank high in murders and armed-robberies. Why? Don’t the bad guys follow laws as written?
Years ago, while growing up, alot of students in our high school brought their firearms to school to enable them to get out right after school and hunt. No one killed anyone else in or on school property. Firearms were kept in their vehicles or their school lockers. Now, we have gun-free zones. Yet, we have shootings on gun-free campuses of colleges and high schools and grade schools. What has happened to transform America to the state we are now finding ourselves? How many students are being sent to school on prescription drugs to make their care easier for their parents and their teachers? We are not correcting the problems, we are medicating the problem to ease the lives of their care-givers. To just simply think legislating a solution into law will cure this country’s illness is folly.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
7:40 pm
That’s what our freedoms mean
……………………………
and if our freedoms mean more kids and cops die, is that o.k.?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
7:40 pm
Boehner offers to lift debt limit for 1 year
Someone blinked.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:40 pm
“I thought this was a discussion forum. Are you sure how this works?”
It is, indeed…but unfortunately for you there’s no rule that anyone is obligated to answer your qeustions just because you ask them. And anyway, you DID get an answer. It’s not my problem you don’t like it.
Oops
December 16th, 2012
7:41 pm
Neuter the mentally ill
Eunuchs are not prone to violence
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
7:41 pm
“i read all the pages and i saw none other than those i listed.”
Those weren’t MY opinions. They were YOUR verions of them.
josef
December 16th, 2012
7:42 pm
RF
Yep. It’s one of the job perks. I came home the other day with a plate of goodies. Unmentionable was picking over them. “Okay, now which ones are the booger cookies?” The ones the kids had a hand in “decorating.”