Newtown massacre reawakens question of gun control
The United States suffers more gun deaths and mass shootings than any other major industrialized country. It’s not even close. And of the dozen most deadly mass killings in U.S. history, half have occurred within the past five years. In other words, if you believe that these things are happening more and more often, the numbers validate that belief.
The question is why.
The NRA and its supporters say the problem is not easy access to guns. To the contrary, they often argue that the problem is a shortage of guns. If only we had more guns in circulation, fewer would die. The day before the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the Michigan Legislature embraced that theory in passing a law allowing those with concealed carry permits to possess weapons in schools, churches and other formerly gun-free areas. Michigan’s governor has yet to say whether he intends to sign such a bill.
However, there is no evidence to support the NRA’s contention. Those countries with much lower death rates do not achieve those rates by allowing free and easy access to guns by almost everybody, regardless of training. Quite the contrary. Those few countries in which guns are even more ubiquitous than the United States — countries such as Iraq — have much higher death rates.
In addition, gun laws are more lax here in the South and guns themselves are more numerous. Under the NRA theory, that ought to produce a more civil, less violent society. The data say otherwise:
On the other hand, those who turn reflexively to gun control as an answer must acknowledge the inadequacies of that approach as well. Yesterday’s school shooting took place in Connecticut, a state with strong gun-control laws. The pistols that were used — a Sig Sauer and a Glock of undetermined model — had been legally obtained and were registered to Nancy Lanza, the late mother of the 20-year-old shooter. It has been widely reported that a Bushmaster .223 assault weapon — a version of the AR-15 — was found in the trunk of the vehicle driven by Adam Lanza to the school. However, Lt. Paul Vance of the Connecticut state patrol said at a press conference this morning that all recovered weapons were found in close proximity to Lanza’s body.
The high kill rate in the shootings — only one person was wounded and survived — suggests Lanza was experienced with firearms. But based on what we know now, it is hard to explain in concrete, direct fashion how any reasonable set of changes to our gun laws would have prevented Friday’s tragedy.
For example, I have not been able to find any more specific information about the types of pistols used in the attack, or whether those pistols or the Bushmaster were equipped with high-capacity magazines. As a practical matter, outlawing pistols would not be feasible given how many are already in circulation. It would also be impossible politically. Outlawing high-capacity magazines might be another matter, but again, as of yet we have no indication they played a role in this attack.
Guns are inanimate objects. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. I accept all of that as fact. However, I would have no problem whatsoever with again outlawing military-style assault weapons. Neither would the U.S. Supreme Court, even based on its most recent pro-gun rulings.
As gun supporters point out, and accurately so, other semi-automatic weapons are capable of delivering the same high fire rate as those described as assault weapons. It is striking, however, that these “other” weapons do not typically show up in the hands of mass murderers such as Adam Lanza. The military-style design of assault weapons may be superficial, but it gives them a powerful mystique to weak-minded souls pursuing visions of vengeance and power.
Speaking in general, rather than in reaction to the Newtown strategy, it is reasonable to propose that the legal ability to purchase and possess deadly firearms be linked to training and testing on the responsible use of such weapons. That would be a regulation of people, not of guns. Such proposals would nonetheless be fought bitterly by the NRA because they would reduce gun sales, and the NRA is in many ways nothing more than a front for its gun-industry sponsors.
Such laws would in no way infringe on constitutional rights as outlined in the Second Amendment and Supreme Court opinions. The millions of law-abiding, responsible gun owners in this country would have nothing to fear from such a system. In fact, as the NRA often points out correctly, those gun owners who have gone through the steps required to obtain a concealed carry permit rarely use those guns in crime. That record suggests a possible path forward for those who recognize both the constitutional right to possess firearms and the necessity of mitigating the damage done when those guns fall into the wrong hands.
– Jay Bookman
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1,704 comments Add your comment
josef
December 16th, 2012
4:40 pm
DOGGONE, FROG, et al
Believe me, I will be bringing up the “throw the toy” idea at the next security committee meeting…it’s worth considering…
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
Doggone/GA
You don’t aim, you point and pull the trigger as fast as you can with a
semiautomatic.
getalife
December 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
The gop solution is more guns and the dems solution will never pass.
More guns it is then.
A cheap solution.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
Maybe doggone fancies being dropped into syria with ten plush toys of his choice?
Why don’t we just start training children how to defend themselves with fruit. I believe they did once this in the British military.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
4:44 pm
“throw the toy ” might work in combat too….
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
4:44 pm
“I saw that post, and I had not heard of that one before for kids. I know that was debated about when it came to airplanes and such. Anything that can distract enough for people to escape is good from my point of view”
I haven’t seen it for school kids either, that was MY idea! (patting myself on the back here) Yes, we could turn our schools into fortresses…but that can’t be done tomorrow, or even next year. Or probably not in for another decade. In the meantime, how many kids might die? At least MY idea has the advantage of being SOMETHING that can be done while we debate other ideas, and it can be done easily, quickly and relatively cheaply.
And older kids could throw more dangerous items, like chairs, laptops, purses, books, etc. Which wold be even more effective.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
4:45 pm
No doubt the con answer would include arming the children as well. After all, their prescribed solution is more guns because everyone knows that makes you safer.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
4:45 pm
“Believe me, I will be bringing up the “throw the toy” idea at the next security committee meeting…it’s worth considering”
thanks Josef! I was hoping you’d see it and like it!
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2012
4:47 pm
Halftrack: “When a tragedy occurs liberals want to blame guns. Evil is the culprit in these cases. America does not understand what evil is anymore”
When a gun tragedy occurs conservatives want to blame gun-blaming liberals. And so, we go round and round in such a boring circle.
As I posted above, we live in a Nietzschean era The problem is not evil, as you and your fundamentalist think. It’s that, as Nietzsche foresaw, we are BEYOND good and evil. Only, the stakes are very high, and we’re not exactly proving to be up to the task.
I assume you think that putting “god” back in the schools would correct the mayhem in the world today. It won’t. It would make it even worse. The root of the violence enveloping the world we live in is capitalism. But then, I’m guessing you think capitalism and your “god” are on the same team eh?
Capitalism is the true source of the true ultra-violence in the world today, and only by addressing it can we begin to find ways to deal with the real violence around is in all its forms.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
4:48 pm
“Why don’t we just start training children how to defend themselves with fruit. I believe they did once this in the British military.”
——————————————————–
OOPS! My mistake. They were taught how to defend themselves against attackers armed with fruit.
pogo
December 16th, 2012
4:52 pm
What we are now experiencing is years of decay of the basic moral values that humans must maintain to be able to lived as civilized human beings. And for you agnostics this has nothing to do with religion. It’s way more basic than that. You people do realize that we’ve created a “zombie” army out there cannot relate to anything at all because everything seems so superficial to them, don’t you? Far from what the 60’s “experiment” was supposed to be about (which was supposed to encourage concern for the “collective” before ones self) our society is now full of young people who don’t feel any empathy towards anyone or anything and they are totally self-consumed. In many cases I-phones, nice cars and nice clothes mean more to them than even their own parents. Many of them see their parents only as a way to obtain the material things which they think they cannot do without. And when their parents can’t deliver, watch out. To them, their needs (and no-one elses) comes first. And sometimes the result is Atrocity. There are probably thousands if not tens of thousands of them out there just like him. In their minds all of them have been done wrong in some way and the message that has been sent to them their whole life is if someone doesn’t give you what you want (either materially or mentally) or if you think someone has done you wrong, then take revenge.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
4:53 pm
““throw the toy ” might work in combat too….”
And that is just too stupid a comment to even warrant addressing.
Gotta step out for a while. Be back later.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
4:56 pm
All school hallways should be equipped with those popup characters that are used for police training in order to provide safe targets for would be assailants to take down and thus keep them distracted long enough to allow the police to arrive and take out the person.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 16th, 2012
4:58 pm
Headline: “Dianne Feinstein To Introduce Assault Weapons Ban On First Day Of Congress”
“It will ban the sale, the transfer, the importation and the possession, not retroactively, but prospectively,” and ban the sale of clips of more than ten bullets, Feinstein said. “The purpose of this bill is to get… weapons of war off the streets.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/dianne-feinstein-assault-weapons-ban_n_2311477.html
This will accomplish nothing other than ensuring that’s lots of new rifles are under the Christmas tree this year.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
4:58 pm
Welcome – “Capitalism is the true source of the true ultra-violence in the world today, and only by addressing it can we begin to find ways to deal with the real violence around is in all its forms.”
That, and the rest of your diatribe is ridiculous!
The Truth
December 16th, 2012
4:59 pm
barking – how about taxing churches, double taxing unions, and going about things the right way. There’s no doubt that security at schools is a joke. This has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with the fact that public schools are ridiculously easy to just walk in and go about your business – they might as well not have any doors. Furthermore, teachers are woefully undertrained to deal with these types of situations – heck, they can’t even train teachers to properly deal with fist fights! The bottom line – keep your politics and stupid policies out of my gun cabinet and solve the problem instead of pointing your crooked finger at the things that are clearly not the problem – guns.
indigo
December 16th, 2012
4:59 pm
Doggone/GA
So the Govt. can regulate our “arms”.
Good.
The Court could make the following law:
1. Handguns must be only six shot revolvers and the hammer must be physcially pulled back each time a round is fired.
2. Rifles must be single shot bolt-action and only .22 ammunition may be used.
3. Shotguns must be single shot and only 20 gauge may be used.
This would be good.
Right?
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
5:00 pm
Mental illness manifests over time. Some people may never show outward signs until it’s too late. There will always be mentally ill people among us that we can’t change. But we don’t always have to have guns.
middle of the road
December 16th, 2012
5:00 pm
“If you ban guns completely, what’s to stop someone from pumping ricin into a school?”
Why didn’t Adam Lanza just pump ricin into the school? How would he get the ricin? It was much easier for him to get guns and use them. We guard against terrorists (foreign and domestic) using ricin. We don’t guard against terrorists (and Adam Lanza was certainly a terrorist) using guns. They are too common and easy to get. We just try to keep them off planes and out of court houses. Schools full of kids are not that important. We keep them out of football stadiums!
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
5:00 pm
““throw the toy ” might work in combat too….”
And that is just too stupid a comment to even warrant addressing.
Gotta step out for a while. Be back later.
……………………………………………………………
and yet it was addressed….soldiers need protection too.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
5:01 pm
All school hallways should be equipped with those popup characters that are used for police training in order to provide safe targets…
Schoolhouse chaff.
getalife
December 16th, 2012
5:03 pm
For the gop solution buy them Bushmasters because the A/R-15 jams.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:04 pm
Doggone @ 4:44
I see nothing wrong with that. A pencil or toy to the eye might be just enough to distract the shooter long enough for others to escape or something.
middle of the road
December 16th, 2012
5:04 pm
I just read that the mother was a gun “enthusiast” and taught her children to shoot. Well, I guess she taught her son Adam quite well. She undoubtably did not think she would be the first victim of her monster son. But parents are usually blind when it comes to the deficiencies of their children.
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:05 pm
THE TRUTH
You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about there.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
5:06 pm
the truth
when unions and churches are used to kill six year olds i will
urge that they be taxed, until then think how your gun cabinet will
appreciate with a 50% tax on gun sales..
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
5:07 pm
For the Dem solution, buy them a teleprompter – ’cause talking nice works so well.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
5:08 pm
Guns are not the problem. Trigger fingers are the problem. Off with their tips.
They BOTH suck
December 16th, 2012
5:10 pm
Pogo
How do you reconcile less murders per capita than 100 years ago with your decaying of moral values comment?
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:12 pm
How would he get the ricin?
EBay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=castor+beans
Once you grow your own, then you simply need to know how castor oil is made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricin#Manufacture
Ricin is easily purified from castor oil manufacturing waste.
There’s less of a hassle growing plants in your own yard than there is trying to obtain a gun. If one can’t get a gun, it’s easy to get propane tanks or anything else that can be turned into an IED. Guns are not the only way to kill here in the US. People have been targeted through the mail, by pipe bombs, and other ways too. Simply focusing on one specific method does nothing to prepare you for the other possibilities.
Anything else I can help you with?
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:12 pm
Jay – “On the other hand, those who turn reflexively to gun control as an answer must acknowledge the inadequacies of that approach as well.”
———————————————————————
Gun control is only inadequate when it is not comprehensive. For every reasonable question about the practicality of gun control, there is an answer. When all the questions are answered, you have your policy.
It is not required that gun nuts like the answers, by the way.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
5:13 pm
For the
DemRep solution,buy them a telepromptercut taxes – ’causetalking nice works so wellcutting taxes cures everything, from the gout to the heartbreak of psoriasis. Great floor wax, too.barking frog
December 16th, 2012
5:14 pm
Brosephus
I see nothing wrong with that. A pencil or toy to the eye might be just enough to distract the shooter long enough for others to escape or something.
………………………………………………….
following the law of unintended consequences a substitute teacher might
be maimed entering a strange classrom….
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
5:14 pm
Okay, the US has 300+ million people in this country and 99.9% are good people. Helping others in need, neighbors, friends, strangers, etc., and doing the right thing. There are a few people that don’t see life that way (or, life in general), so let’s change life for the 99.9%. Me thinks not!
They BOTH suck
December 16th, 2012
5:15 pm
Scout @ 4:58
NRA and gun manufacturers have already done that with the same scare tactics and lies about Obama that they used the first time he was elected?
Folks ran out and bought guns based on a well crafted “marketing campaign” of lies. It is working again since the results last month. The manufactures and sellers laugh to the bank with the higher prices based directly on the deceptive marketing
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:15 pm
Gun apologist response to gun control- We can’t possibly stop every gun death, and even if we could, people would find other ways to kill, so we should do nothing.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:15 pm
following the law of unintended consequences a substitute teacher might
be maimed entering a strange classrom….
Well, if a substitute teacher enters the classroom shooting a gun, I’m hoping that he would be maimed.
getalife
December 16th, 2012
5:16 pm
Lets donate some of our assault rifles to schools is an even cheaper gop solution.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
5:19 pm
Lets donate some of our assault rifles to schools is an even cheaper gop solution.
Raffle off the ARs to pay for security.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:19 pm
Why aren’t people who are so, so very worried about the unintended consequences of gun control expressing their worry about the unintended consequences of the 2nd amendment?
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
5:20 pm
getalife
an ak in every classroom….
Peace
December 16th, 2012
5:20 pm
@ 4:58 Headline: “Dianne Feinstein To Introduce Assault Weapons Ban On First Day Of Congress”
Would this keep Eric Holder and his goons from funneling assault weapons to the Mexican cartels? Diane needs to clear this with the A.G.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:23 pm
Now Brosephus wants to patrol the border with a propane tank and a lighter. Good luck with that.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:25 pm
Would this keep Eric Holder and his goons from funneling assault weapons to the Mexican cartels? Diane needs to clear this with the A.G.
Who knows, but a weapons ban would probably stop the legal bulk purchases that can be made in Arizona by anybody with the money to pay for the guns regardless to what they plan on doing with them.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
5:26 pm
Students should be required to wear full body armor in order to make sure that gun owners need bear no responsibility.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
5:26 pm
get – love your one-liners, pithy comments, jabs, etc. And your solution? Besides the digs at the cons/gop?
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:27 pm
Now Brosephus wants to patrol the border with a propane tank and a lighter. Good luck with that.
So, are you intentionally being stupid or were you born that way?
getalife
December 16th, 2012
5:30 pm
Thanks USA,
There is only one cheap solution to this problem on the table.
The dems ban will fail.
I can spare a few guns for the local schools …..
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:35 pm
Brosephus- “If one can’t get a gun, it’s easy to get propane tanks or anything else that can be turned into an IED. Guns are not the only way to kill here in the US.”
————————————————-
You equate killing people with an IED made from a propane tank to shooting people, as if there was no difference in ease of use, or practicality. Perhaps you should be asking yourself the question you asked me.
Deny all you want, but guns make killing people easy, requiring minimal knowledge, no skill, no training, no physical prowess, no mechanical aptitude.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
5:38 pm
“I see nothing wrong with that. A pencil or toy to the eye might be just enough to distract the shooter long enough for others to escape or something.”
Bro – and not just that. There is the issue of people’s automatic reactions to things thrown at them…especially at their faces. It takes lots of practice and training to override the automatic reaction to ward off such things with your hands and arms.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
5:40 pm
Well I guess it’s best to accept the adage- Keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll keep getting what you’re getting-
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:40 pm
“There is the issue of people’s automatic reactions to things thrown at them…especially at their faces”
—————————————————
Yeah, like close their eyes and pull the trigger faster.
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
5:42 pm
“Yeah, like close their eyes and pull the trigger faster.”
Sure, close your eyes…and make it just that much easier for the teacher to overpower you. I can JUST see a killer making themselves that vulnerable.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:43 pm
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
5:40 pm
Well I guess it’s best to accept the adage- Keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll keep getting what you’re getting-
——————————————————–
Yup. Make excuses for doing nothing then blame somebody else for what could have been prevented.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
5:45 pm
Give grade school students classes in self defense instead of sex education so there will be no added security cost for the gun owning property owners.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
5:46 pm
There is the issue of people’s automatic reactions to things thrown at them…especially at their faces.
Ever notice that Superman always ducked when a shooter would throw the gun at his head just after he emptied the gun shooting at Superman’s chest?
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
5:47 pm
“Ever notice that Superman always ducked when a shooter would throw the gun at his head just after he emptied the gun shooting at Superman’s chest”
Yep!
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:47 pm
Question to those advocating arming the teachers, and only half facetious, do you really want ME armed?
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:48 pm
I always wondered why Superman ducked, too!
getalife
December 16th, 2012
5:48 pm
We could hire vets as assistant principles and arm them with automatic weapons.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
5:48 pm
I don’t know if this is true or not but I heard that gun barrels contain trace amounts of green kryptonite while the bullets contain harmless lead.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
5:49 pm
Kamchak
Ever notice that Superman always ducked when a shooter would throw the gun at his head just after he emptied the gun shooting at Superman’s chest?
…………………………………….
It was because he wore glasses as Clark Kent and had acquired
that reflex to protect them…
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
5:49 pm
Get – fair enough. I don’t believe this is a political party’s issue to resolve nor can be resolved. Sick people do sick things. Can’t fix that.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:49 pm
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
5:42 pm
“Yeah, like close their eyes and pull the trigger faster.”
Sure, close your eyes…and make it just that much easier for the teacher to overpower you. I can JUST see a killer making themselves that vulnerable.
—————————————————-
My daughter is an education major. It was just last semester when she took the three credit hour course on dodging bullets fired at 2-3 rounds per second in your direction after throwing plush toys at gunmen.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
5:50 pm
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:35 pm
Very true. Also guns are less personal there is no requirement to be close to the victim. Yes you can make bombs and devise other ways to murder but guns are as convienient as a stop at McDonalds.
I have yet to hear an answer for why we need guns?
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:51 pm
I have yet to hear an answer for why we need guns?
——————————————————
Me either.
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:51 pm
saywhat
Okay. You’re the classroom teacher. The sh*t starts. What do you do?
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:52 pm
Why do we need guns? In this household for fresh Bambi…
Doggone/GA
December 16th, 2012
5:52 pm
“I have yet to hear an answer for why we need guns?”
That’s because there’ no law compelling us to justify our enthusiasm to YOU
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
5:53 pm
Each student should be housed within a parent-provided bullet-proof containment vessel while at school in order to make sure that gun owners bear no burden beyond simply being allowed to fully enjoy their 2nd amendment rights.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
5:56 pm
That’s because there’ no law compelling us to justify our enthusiasm to YOU
Is that number 101, or 102?
getalife
December 16th, 2012
5:56 pm
“Okay. You’re the classroom teacher. The sh*t starts. What do you do?”
Grab the donated AK -47 and unload the clip.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:57 pm
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:51 pm
saywhat
Okay. You’re the classroom teacher. The sh*t starts. What do you do?
____________________________________________________________
In todays world, anything I could, including probably getting myself kiiled trying to protect the kids.
But the point is that if I had my way, the sh*t would be a whole lot less likely to start, and far fewer teachers would ever be put in that position.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:57 pm
You equate killing people with an IED made from a propane tank to shooting people, as if there was no difference in ease of use, or practicality.
There is no difference in the ease of use. Just because we see more gun violence than anything else does not eliminate the possibility of other methods being used. Prior to Oklahoma City, did anybody ever consider a U-Haul truck full of fertilizer as something to be worried about? I guess you’ve forgotten about the truck with propane tanks sitting in Times Square on May 1, 2010.
Also, where did I claim that it was not easy to get guns?? Do you have a reading comprehension problem or something? I simply stated that if one couldn’t get a gun, there are other methods that can be used. You’re the one that went for stupid by claiming I was going to patrol the border with a propane tank and a lighter.
The stupidity is all yours, homie. Own it.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
5:58 pm
That’s because there’ no law compelling us to justify our enthusiasm to YOU
———————————————————————
Not yet.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
5:59 pm
josef
December 16th, 2012
5:52 pm
I understand the “sportsman” angle but there’s also Bow season for fresh Bambi.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
5:59 pm
That’s because there’ no law compelling us to justify our enthusiasm to YOU
Is that number 101, or 102?
That threshhold was crossed yesterday. Some people are simply beyond reach.
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:01 pm
saywhat
Yours is an idealistic view, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m a lifelong political pacifist. But we’re not there and we won’t get there tomorrow. Tomorrow, and I mean this more literally than it might seem, I have to face this question head on. What do we do in that case of, G-d forbid, if…
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
6:06 pm
Gun manufacturers need to design lightweight guns with minimal kickback if they expect grade school children to be able to properly defend themselves in a fire fight.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
6:08 pm
Brosephus, my point (that I have been making since page 10) is that guns SHOULD be hard to get, VERY hard. And if they WERE hard to get, and HAD been hard to get for the past 20-30 years, the Newtown tragedy would not have happened. Guns make killing easy. There will always be ways to kill, but none as easy as shooting a gun.
You can apologize for the killers having used guns, make excuses for them all you want, but guns are the problem. Not bombs, not alcohol, not cars.
How many school shootings occur in England? Since they don’t have easy access to guns, I imagine there must be many many school bombings to make up for that fact, right?
You brought the stupid all by yourself, I just pointed it out for you. Don’t get all butt hurt over it.
Recon 0311 2533
December 16th, 2012
6:08 pm
I see we still have those who cannot get their heads and butt’s wired together. The profile of these mass murdering sociopaths is now clear. They’re young people with anti-social behavior patterns. They posses above average intelligence and they’re typically loaners who’ve been recognized within their communities as being strangely different. They engage in fantasy such as violent video games and dress in black or military battle dress. Forget targeting firearms and law abiding owners of firearms and target the personality profiles of those deranged people who’re the perpetrators of these horrific acts. Lets get our Mental Heath facilities doing their job and lets censor violent movies and video games. More feel good gun laws aren’t the solution, they’re an avoidance of the problem.
getalife
December 16th, 2012
6:09 pm
How about an armed drone?
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:09 pm
Willie…
My nephew is a bow hunter. He also is a gun hunter. And, no, his arsenal doesn’t include an AK47, I’m just saying that the question was what do we need a gun for. Ours is just one case in point.
My Granny, may her memory be blessed, was a genteel Southern lady to the max. Still, though, she went out every spring to shoot snakes, necessary given where her home was. Into her nineties she could, as I’ve said before, pop the eyes out of a moccasin from halfway across the slough.
Assault weapons? That’s another question. Gun safety? That’s still another question. I have no answers, but the bottom line, imeoiauo, is not the gun as much as it is the inability to spot and deal with the unbalanced, and having in place a contingency plan, G-d forbid, if…
indigo
December 16th, 2012
6:10 pm
Doggone/GA – 2:46
Looks like I also missed Jay’s appointing you as official “how to read and react to posts” person.
getalife
December 16th, 2012
6:10 pm
del,
Your party cut mental facilities.
Next.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2012
6:11 pm
We need to start educating our children in their second amendment rights as early as kindergarten so they’ll have a fighting chance.
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
6:11 pm
Taxpayer
hand grenades disguised as throw toys.
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
6:13 pm
saywhat? –
“Brosephus, my point (that I have been making since page 10) is that guns SHOULD be hard to get, VERY hard. And if they WERE hard to get, and HAD been hard to get for the past 20-30 years, the Newtown tragedy would not have happened.”
You, nor anybody else, can say that with certainty….wish you could, but you can’t.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
6:14 pm
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:01 pm
saywhat
Yours is an idealistic view, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m a lifelong political pacifist. But we’re not there and we won’t get there tomorrow. Tomorrow, and I mean this more literally than it might seem, I have to face this question head on. What do we do in that case of, G-d forbid, if…
—————————————————————-
Josef, you are right. This is a long thread, and it is hard to expect anybody to read the whole way through. What I have been saying all along is do the right thing now, even though we know the full benefit won’t reach us for decades because of the depth and extent of the problem. I would rather do the right thing and wait than do nothing and hope for things to change by themselves, when they show no sign of ever doing so.
As for what you can do tomorrow? Only what my wife can do when she goes to work at school tomorrow- hope that the easy availability of guns foisted on us by the unintended consequences of an obsolete second amendment don’t kill us.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 16th, 2012
6:14 pm
Throw pillows disguised as hand grenades.
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
6:15 pm
my point (that I have been making since page 10) is that guns SHOULD be hard to get, VERY hard. And if they WERE hard to get, and HAD been hard to get for the past 20-30 years, the Newtown tragedy would not have happened.
Got proof??? Weapons are not allowed inside prisons. People are patted down and walk through metal detectors to get inside, yet prisoners still get shanked. Making guns hard to get is no guarantee that you’re going to stop these kinds of incidents.
You can apologize for the killers having used guns, make excuses for them all you want, but guns are the problem.
Ok, please point out exactly where I apologized for anything or anybody? Come on Einstein, please cut and paste my apology post. Do it, please.
How many school shootings occur in England?
Who cares about England? What’s the population of England vs the US population? How large is England vs the size of the US?
If I were you, I’d step away from the computer and go chill out. Your emotional thinking is making you look like a stone cold fool tonight.
Recon 0311 2533
December 16th, 2012
6:15 pm
“Your party cut mental facilities.”
gatalife, no it was the legal profession but I’m sure you’re to young to remember it.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
6:15 pm
USA Patriot
December 16th, 2012
6:13 pm
saywhat? –
“Brosephus, my point (that I have been making since page 10) is that guns SHOULD be hard to get, VERY hard. And if they WERE hard to get, and HAD been hard to get for the past 20-30 years, the Newtown tragedy would not have happened.”
You, nor anybody else, can say that with certainty….wish you could, but you can’t.
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But I can say it with a very high degree of probability.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
6:18 pm
josef,
Respectfully, I have read many posts that have expressed the right given in the Constitution to bare arms and I have read the “I should be able to if I want” argument. But like I have to tell my children wants and desires are not needs. Prioritize.
hiram
December 16th, 2012
6:19 pm
There’s multiple reasons to jettison Cerberus Capital Management, who owns The Freedom Group, the manufacturer of Bushmaster and numerous other gun and ammo manufacturers, from your financial portfolio. Besides the moral ramifications, there’s an excellent chance that you’re going to lose a lot of money in the very near future.
http://www.freedom-group.com/
You have to question the sanity of anyone who owns, or wants one of this company’s products:
http://www.bushmaster.com/index.asp
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:20 pm
saywhat
Your wife is a teacher, so you have more of a handle on it and what some of us are saying. We have to deal with the reality of what many are discussing in theory. You, and I mean no disrespect, can posture about the cause. Your wife has to deal with the effect.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2012
6:23 pm
Brosephus™
December 16th, 2012
6:15 pm
“Who cares about England? What’s the population of England vs the US population? How large is England vs the size of the US?”
What’s the poulation of Jamaica and what is their firearm murder rate?
barking frog
December 16th, 2012
6:23 pm
what are the chances of gun control passing in congress?
what are the chances of mental health reform except for what’s in obamacare?
what are the chances of school security getting tweaked?
which of these can be affected locally?
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
6:24 pm
“Ok, please point out exactly where I apologized for anything or anybody? Come on Einstein, please cut and paste my apology post. Do it, please.”
————————————————————–
In regards to England, population size has nothing little to do with access to guns. Gun control laws do. You stated people could just as easily kill people by blowing them up if they can’t shoot them. Why doesn’t it happen that way then?
One doesn’t have to say the words “I’m sorry” to be an apologist. Just keep making up excuses for why the ease of access to guns weren’t an integral part of the death of those 26 people.
I have no emotional attachment to guns whatsoever. They could dissappear tomorrow and I would never miss them. Do you? Would you? I’m as chill as rain in December. But I do need to step away from the computer and take my car to the shop. I got a leaky vacuum hose somewhere.
saywhat?
December 16th, 2012
6:27 pm
josef
December 16th, 2012
6:20 pm
saywhat
Your wife is a teacher, so you have more of a handle on it and what some of us are saying. We have to deal with the reality of what many are discussing in theory. You, and I mean no disrespect, can posture about the cause. Your wife has to deal with the effect.
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My wife is 5′2″ and while pregnant had to confront a student’s grandparent who brought a loaded gun with them when they came to pick their grandchild up.