Horror in a Connecticut elementary school

I don’t know what could be said. Mass incidents are bad in and of themselves. When there are children involved, it makes it that much more tragic in my view.

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Now some gun control?! Now?!

How horrific does it have to get before we take a more active approach to keeping assault weapons out of the hands of disturbed people?

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Well, I hope they won’t use this to try and take the anti-tank weapon and the two machine guns away from me. Sure, we got a couple hundred thousand nuts with guns in this country, but that don’t mean the rest of us can’t walk around loaded for bear and spoiling for a fight.

Matter of fact, this whole thing just proves kids need to be armed before they go to school so they can blow nuts like that one away if they break into school and start shooting. I’m sure they can figure out a way to make a pistol or rifle light enough for a kid to use and carry. And that goes for people that go to church too.

We need a 2nd Amenment solution to the gun nuts in this country, that’s for sure.

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From the news reports I am hearing, the 223 was in the person’s car and the scum bag was found with two pistols.

BTW: It is against the law to bring a gun on campus so the law abiding citizens would not do such a thing. The criminals and the crazies do not care about the law.

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Automatic weapons need to be banned.

Waiting periods for all weapons need to be enacted nationwide.

All weapons should be registered.

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I cannot even bring myself to learn anything about this incident.

But from what tiny bit I do know, my heart is broken.

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Since when is keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people POLITICAL?

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Citizen – 3:12 “how horrific does it have to get”

To the Republican Party, funded in a large part by the gun industry and large numbers of gun nuts who actually believe the 2nd ammendment gives them “the right to keep and bear arms”, even though it’s clear this ammendment applies today only to the Military and police, this tragedy will mean little or nothing.

America could become like those shootout days as protrayed in Hollywood Westerns and, as long as the campaign money keeps rolling in from the gun manufacturers, murderous tragedies far worse would just keep happening.

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East Lake Ira

December 14th, 2012
3:20 pm

Automatic weapons need to be banned. They are banned already.

Waiting periods for all weapons need to be enacted nationwide. Already done.

All weapons should be registered. Already done.

All of these things you want have already been enacted and it didn’t stop this lunatic. Don’t politize this tragic event at this time.

Pray for these families!

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Automatic weapons need to be banned.

They are banned.

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and if it belongs to this badonkadonk beret, he had serious problems dealing with rejection.

The last tweet (12 min ago) said something to the effect of “getting spammed because of my name WTF?” so it might not be him.

But you know what’s scary? This is some random dude with serious problems dealing with rejection and he can probably go buy a gun right now. #thanksNRA

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My thoughts are surely with those folks and thier families on this sad day…….

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Our President cried for the victims.

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The last tweet (12 min ago) said something to the effect of “getting spammed because of my name WTF?” so it might not be him.

Oops

If it was him, what’s scary is tweeting from beyond the grave.

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They are banned.

No, but they require a special class of license to own.

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Had his mother survived, I wonder what she might have to say about her son. I would imagine she would say he showed some signs of depression, maybe even early mental illness. When and how to intervene is the hard question. Nearly every parent deals with at some time of other.

Demonizing this young man, will only hurt us. We don’t need anyone else feeling this alienated.

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“I’ll sacrifce my right to carry so YOU don’t have to sacrifice your child.”

and your sacrifice will do nothing to stop the black market sales of guns and ammunition. Giving up your rights will have NO effect on such acts. None.

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Doggone/GA

How many guns to you have in your home?

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Doggone, there are many ways we can start having common sense gun laws without unreasonably (the key word) restricting the ability of law abiding people to protect themselves. Some impact ownership including licensing and real background checks, some involve acting to get guns off the street, some help police and courts act against suspected criminals. We are not helpless to reduce these acts. We only need act. BradyCenter.org

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What? I’ve never bought a firearm here but I didn’t think there was a mandatory waiting period.

Technically, you have to wait while the background check happens — in my case about an hour, maybe less — but that’s probably not what y’all are talking about.

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td

The odds are that he’d blow your butt from one end of the restauant to another, all the manly man bravado in the world won’t help in that situation and most likely you and the other clown would end up increasing the body count.

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Connecticut… 4th strictest gun control laws, which was also recently graded by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence as the third most effective state in terms of gun safety legislation and where gun ownership is at 16.2 percent of households, had the fifth lowest per capita rate of gun deaths at 5.34 per 100,000.
[Maybe the laws weren't the problem]

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Don’t these killers at movie theaters, colleges and schools realize they are gun-free zones? Maybe we need bigger signs. For some reason, people who favor gun control assume that these monsters would abide by guns laws, when they won’t even abide homicide laws.

Actually, maybe if the 30 year old ex-Marine who teaches social studies down the hall were allowed a concealed weapon, lives would be spared.

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We need to ban all guns except muskets. By the time you get the powder into the barrel and the ball rammed down — granted that it isn’t raining outside — most of your anger at people will be replaced with frustration at the weapon.

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I understand there are nutjobs out there like the Aurora, CO. shooter that are not targeting anybody in particular when they accomplish mass killings. Then there are nutjobs like this that go after specific people (in this case his parent) for some reason.

For nutjobs like today, why does everybody else have to die?

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Aquagirl, guns save lives all the time.

If someone breaks into your house, would you rather have a shotgun or a baseball bat?

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So what will the response be from the NRA?

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Everyone please quit bickering and start praying for these families.

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I didn’t vote for Obama, but the way he handles these kinds of situations makes him a–o.k. in my book.

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Delois, please stop posting comments and start praying.

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“So what will the response be from the NRA?”

Don’t know. But there’s a new Tom Cruise shoot-em-up flick that will be in theaters next week. From the previews, it looks like there will be lots of guns and killing.

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If you have a gun license in Georgia the purchase is pretty much instant. If you do not have a license it takes about 30 to 45 minutes for a background check. Unfortunately, the background check is only a criminal background check and doesn’t pick up those who’ve been treated for mental issues or identifying those with suspected emotional disorders.

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1st of all, this is just awful — nothing but devilment.

2nd – in a free society where guns are everywhere, where you can move from place to place without having to go thru security checks every 5 minutes, this is what can happen. It is with a heavy heart I say, I had rather die free than live scared. There are no solutions.

God bless the families of the murdered folks, they will hurt for years to come.

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The families of those in prior tragedies have prayed for sensible gun laws, when are we going to stop praying for new victims and start answering some prayers that might reduce these kinds of tragedies?

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If someone breaks into your house, would you rather have a shotgun or a baseball bat?

WTF does that have to do with arming teachers so they can supposedly shoot it out in a roomful of kids?

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Huh?

Sorry, there should have been a “with” in there between “intruder” and “your”, but my point is that the intruder might have your weapon instead of you.

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“Mayors Against Illegal Guns.”

and. . . are there any mayors FOR illegal guns?

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First and foremost, our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

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let us keep them in our hearts and prayers. may our creator give us the wisdom to find solutions to make our world a little better each day.

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td @ 3:38

THANK YOU.

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I am sick and tired of hearing gun fanatics rant that guns don’t kill people, that people kill people. As far as I am concerned all of those should be feeling a deep sense of shame and remorse as enablers of this horrific crime. What will it take for America to act like a civilized country on this issue?

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Ahh, the mythical hero with a gun. Ask the Empire State victims who were killed by well trained cops. http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html

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are there any mayors FOR illegal guns?

And “Drunks Against Mad Mothers”

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To those folks that believe waiting periods and registration is the law of the land, here is reality: Gun Shows.

I erred with Automatic. Should have said Assault Weapons.

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Common Sense

December 14th, 2012
3:50 pm

People successfully defend themselves every day in this country with guns.

Schools are an exception, because someone thinks things are safer that way.

Just one gun could have halted this as it started.

No action heroes required. Just someone who knows what they are doing.
.
.
.YOU that person?

Who decides who is that person?

Want a trained SWAT officer in every classroom?

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Yes, We Can Have Sane Gun Control Without Trampling Gun Owners’ Rights

http://www.alternet.org/connecticut-school-shooting-yes-we-can-have-sane-gun-control-without-trampling-gun-owners-rights

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Mr. Holmes,

So your strategy is surrender. So be it. But you ignore the fact that every day people successfully defend themselves.

I’d rather die trying to defend myself than surrendering.

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The gun lobby always says, ‘Now’s not the time to talk about gun control. We need to respect the dead, and not politicize this tragedy.’ Seems to me, it’s the perfect time to talk about gun control. I have a few guns, but I tell you what, My Second Amendment rights don’t mean as much to me as my grandkids. And your Second Amendment rights mean even less. If the NRA doesn’t offer up some solutions, they’re going to lose their seat at the table.

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Surely this is not the right time to point fingers and raise voices. Today we can grieve; there will be ample time to question and argue later.

I extend my deepest sympathies and condolences to the families and friends of those killed and wounded in this tragedy. I sincerely hope that they find comfort and solace in the coming days, whether it be from family, clergy, professional counselors or from whatever quarter.

And for those who are touched by this horror and think they have nowhere to turn, I encourage you to find it within yourself to *ask* for help. At times like these, we are not at our best and some victims — especially those who do not show outward wounds — may be inadvertently overlooked.

And for those who are asked for help — please do your utmost to extend a helping hand to those asking for it. It is a times like these that we are reminded of the value of community, and it is also at times like these when we as Americans shine most brightly.

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“”"”"”"”"Firearm laws in Australia are enforced at a Federal and State level. Gun ownership is accessible only for those persons with ‘genuine reasons’ who can obtain a Permit to Acquire from local Police stations. ‘Genuine Reasons’ focus on primary production, licenced sport, animal control or employment requirements, and do not include ‘personal protection.’ In New South Wales (and similar in other States), firearm ownership is widely prohibited for convicted offenders. Gun ownership is low in metropolitan areas whose residents would generally not fulfill ‘Genuine Reasons’ requirements. Gun licences must be renewed frequently and expire automatically.
Firearm controls have been in place following the 1996 Port Arthur massacre. Gun ownership in Australia is not a wide social issue, and major political parties are generally supportive of pro-control legislation “”"”"”"”"”"” from Wikipedia

Guess these fascist Aussies don’t have those God given second amendment rights we thankfully have free of that nasty preamble gibberish

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I know, let’s make murder illegal, Yah, that’s the ticket. Once something is made illegal than it will never ever happen again. Why didn’t we think of this sooner. Get real people. This is a tragic event. The families of the victim are going through unimaginable pain. Continuing to make this an issue about guns is quite frankly, stupid…

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Actually for the individual who noted that gun checks are criminal only, that’s not totally true. There is a provision to check for mental status as part of the check. The problem is that it only pertains to public records of committal type hearings brought againsts individuals by relatives etc: these are usually heard in probate courts and those records are supposed to be made available. The problem with this is twofold. First, compliance with provision of these records is scattered at best. Second, the vase majority of such determinations of mental instability are handled outside of the courts in a private setting and are subject to very strict confidentiality laws that restrict sharing of such data. So, in practice, its mainly criminal records that are checked but there is provision to check mental status. its just not very effective. Further, in the present case we do not know if the individual in this case had received any treatment for mental illness prior to his rampage.

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josef@3:56 pm

i agree.

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rightwingnutjob:

And before you start with the BS about knives etc, see the crazy guy in China that attacked 20 kids with a knife. Horrific. No deaths.

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if there were some college student at Va Tech with a gun in his backpack, maybe he could have done something before that nutjob killed 30+ people.

Same deal here. A hypothetical teacher who had a gun could have saved lives when he/she heard gunshots.

No.

That kind of action requires extensive training that your mythical college student or teacher doesn’t have.

Again — Reagan and Brady were shot while in the protection of one of the best armed and best trained security details on this planet.

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What does the NRA say?

Not a damned thing.

http://www.nra.org/home.aspx

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josef @ 3:56

THANK YOU ………….. your response was just one of the probably 100 reasons I could list.

Another would be that this animal’s photo will be shown ad nauseum and other sicko’s will think “that could be me on television. I had better start planning” !

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I once read a post from weetamoe that made sense. Remember that? That was great!

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weetamoe

you are more full of it today than usual

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“”"”"”"”"”"Ownership of most types of firearm in the UK requires either a Shotgun Certificate (SGC) or a Firearms Certificate (FAC). Both of these are issued by local police after the applicant has met the required criteria. For a Shotgun Certificate the applicant need demonstrate that they can securely store the firearms (usually a gun safe bolted to a solid wall), have no criminal convictions, no history of any medical condition or disability including alcohol and drug related conditions, no history of treatment for depression or any other kind of mental or nervous disorder, or epilepsy. Once a SGC is granted the person is free to purchase single shot, multi-barrelled and repeating shotguns of lever action, pump action or semi-automatic with non detachable magazine that hold no more than 2 rounds of ammunition, plus one in the breech. There is no restriction on the number of shotguns that can be held on a SGC nor are there any restrictions on the amount of ammunition one can possess. The shotguns can be used wherever one has permission.
The criteria required for the grant of a Firearms certificate is far more stringent. Alongside safe storage requirements and checks on previous convictions and medical records, the applicant must also demonstrated a Good reason for each firearm they wish to hold (Good reason may include hunting, pest control, collecting or target shooting). Police may restrict the type and amount of ammunition held, and where and how the firearms are used. Historically, most certificates approved for handguns listed “self-defence” as a reason. Since 1968 in mainland Britain, self-defence is not considered an acceptable “good reason” for firearm ownership (however use of a licensed firearm in self-defence is often justified provided that the victim can prove they used necessary and reasonable force).”"”"”"”"”"From Wikipedia
Thank god for the Declaration of Independence that got us free of insane fascist gun control laws like England’s. Can you imagine letting some fascist pig police officer decide if you are sane enough to own a gun? Kinda like that well regulated militia nonsense in the second amendment that the NRA got thrown out.

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1) “For every “worsening of our culture” that he can list, I can list one or more things that demonstrate that our culture has improved and is better than it was in 1950.”

And I say “collectively” it has worsened when it comes to our general morality.

2) “Monstrous evil has been with us from the very beginning of recorded history and it will apparently never not be part of the human condition…”

That is true but when you fail to keep in place the mechanisms to keep it chained you suffer the consequences.

3) And with that we will agree where we can and disagree where we must.

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Best not to say anything right now………only pray for understanding and for the all those families.

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NTSB data for 2003 (latest I could easily find) 2,136 children killed in auto accidents.
1/3 of all traffic fatalities are attributed to excess speed, so that’s 712 children killed by excessive speed in one year.

How many of you would agree to limiting your automobiles to a maximum speed of 25 mph, with a governor, not laws against speeding, in order to save the lives of 712 children a year. After all no one needs to go any faster in a car than 25 mph.

Or we spend our efforts towards enforcing the existing speed limits, educating drivers, and getting the drunks and crazies out from behind the wheel and you could continue to enjoy the FREEDOM to going 70 mph down I-75.

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And the repeated myth that we can not “prevent” all mass murders so let’s not even try to pass common sense laws that could reduce these senseless acts.

Perhaps some of you need to review a partial list of the frequency: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/mass-shootings-us/nTW2N

Next time your kids are in school or family members at the mall, think about the possibility and then tell us about how nothing can be done. How many more must die from this senselessness?

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Everybody thinks they’re gonna be Clint Eastwood in a shootout. Fact of the matter is damned few people can safely handle weaponry in a close-quarter combat situation. More guns in public spaces will mean more collateral damage (don’t you love that term).

But if we’re going to allow people to carry firearms in public, I say they need to go through 40-60 hours of close-quarter combat training every year. No exceptions.

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yuzeyurbrane

December 14th, 2012
3:54 pm
I am sick and tired of hearing gun fanatics rant that guns don’t kill people, that people kill people.
________________________________
If I get stabbed by a mugger, will they arrest the knife or the PERSON.

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Many of the schools around metro ATL have an armed SRO (school resource officer) on the campus. Maybe that’s one way to stop this kind of incident, or to at least make it more challenging for the shooter – have someone on the premises who can shoot back.

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“But if we’re going to allow people to carry firearms in public, I say they need to go through 40-60 hours of close-quarter combat training every year. No exceptions.”

“Shall not be INFRINGED”.

You’ll have to work on the above first.

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With all the political back and forth talk these days, it’s hard to know which Party truly cares for the people and which one truly cares only for Big Business profits.

Well, this terrible tragedy will give us all the opportunity to find out.

Just follow the comming news broadcasts and see which Party calls for a ban on assualt rifles and much stronger gun laws and see which one, ostensibly to protect our “right to keep and bear arms”, blocks any ban on assault rifles and any stricter enforcement of gun laws.

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“How do you explain Charles Whitman? Bonnie and Clyde?”

Volume.

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Obama’s kids have secret service protection.

So did Reagan and Brady.

How did that work out for them against John Hinkley Jr.?

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STUPID LIBERAL

December 14th, 2012
4:11 pm

Because there were no death’s make it Ok to ban my rights to protect myself by what ever means are necessary ?
____

Yes if you’re crazy or want an assault weapon.

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Shall not be infringed.

There are limits on freedom of speech, religion and other rights. It is absolutely insane to even think that there cannot be limits some guns and in fact the Supreme Court agrees.

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Do chemical weapons come under the definition of “arms” that I’m allowed to keep and bear?

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I’m sure our people never thought our government could assassinate US citizens with Predator drones without due process of law, but it happened.

Why not? Have you ever read the oath of office that politicians, federal law enforcement, and military personnel take before beginning their service? Part of the oath the person swears or affirms includes defending the Constitution against ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic. If a citizen decides to declare war against the US, then that appears to qualify them as a domestic enemy and subject to the necessary reprecussions of us defending the Constitution.

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This one will spark change because it is government’s job to keep Americans safe.

Parents will demand it.

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Common sense gun laws are not seeking to ban all guns, they are seeking to reduce gun violence, protect innocents, provide gun safety for gun owners, their families and others, and to preclude the use of guns by criminals or those who would commit crimes. We have to start somewhere.

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TBG – Start at the top of the comments and it’ll make sense. If, after reading you still don’t get my point, you have my pity.

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Someone on Twitter just asked me: “WHY does this happen now when it didn’t 40, 50 years ago? WHAT is different?”

Our country is in a continued state of moral decline. Respect, honor, integrity…..harder and harder to come by.

Just my $.02 as well. Just as abstinence doesn’t work as a form of birth control and “banning” or making illegal substances like cocaine and meth, doesn’t mean people aren’t going to get it on or find them some crack. Banning guns won’t work either. Those who want them will find a way to get them.

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98, as self-destructive as you cons are and as much as you detest Ralph Nader, I’m surprised that you do wear seat belts! (grin)

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Scout, so you are arguing against what no one who wants common sense gun laws has asked for. How absolutely foolish, inane, ridiculous and ignorant on your part. Surely you can engage your brain and deal with real issues instead of spouting NRA nonsense like some sickening parrot.

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East Lake Ira

December 14th, 2012
4:00 pm

Assault weapon is a political term, often used by gun control advocates, typically referring to firearms “designed for rapidly firing at human targets from close range,”[1] sometimes described as military-style features useful in combat.[2]

Three points…..
1)typical lib gotta call names cause they can’t answer the question.
2) it is a political term….in other words…made up.
3) you didn’t answer the question

The point I’m trying to make is that any weapon is an assault weapon.

I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need to protect yourself from a horrific criminal. Your words are not going to do it.

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One poster noted a new Tom Cruise picture will be opening soon with lots of violent gun action — one of many such films, most probably. I think that’s part of the problem, too. This carnage is glorified. In college I did a report on movie and TV violence against women (better be a good girl!), and some of the studies I came across said the film violence most copied is that which is easiest to copy. And gun violence is way too easy to copy.

So one step we can perhaps all take is to quit supporting this gratuitous movie violence with our entertainment dollars.

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98, it’s because one guy doesn’t care who he kills and the other needs to know who the target is. Believe me, firefights are unplanned chaos. Friendly fire is more common than we wish to admit.

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Why does it take special training for a Good Samaritan hero to shoot someone in the head, while 16-year old high school students are apparently pretty good at it?

Because the Good Samaritan hero won’t be aiming at a 15 year old cowering on the floor. The Colombine shooters probably missed some of their intended targets and hit others unintentionally.
For mass shooters there is no wrong person to plug, that’s kind of their point.

If you can’t tell the difference between objectives of a nutbag mass murderer and someone trying to stop them, you might want to stop talking. But only if it bothers you when you sound like an uniformed wannabe spouter. If that doesn’t bother you, go for it. Your mouth can probably accommodate unlimited feet with little discomfort.

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JamVet, ever seen that documentary about Nader called “An Unreasonable Man”? Liberals hate him worse than anyone because he cost them a couple elections. Great footage of Michael Moore giving a rousing speech on his behalf in 2000, and footage of Moore four years later at another rally mocking, ridiculing Nader and begging him to drop out. Regardless of political affiliation, I have no idea how anyone has respect for Michael Moore.

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Why is it false equivalence?

Because this nut, the nuts in Colorado,and the nut at Va. Tech were shooting indiscriminately while you mythical hero is looking for only one particular individual. And has been pointed out, many trained professionals freeze up in just these types of situations.

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How can a country that can’t round up 11 million illegal aliens expect to round up 350,000,000 guns?

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“many trained professionals freeze up in just these types of situations.”

Then why have an army? Why have a police force?

If these highly trained experts are unreliable, will you at least let me try to protect MYSELF?

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Good Fight:

You can call me names. I will simply offer debate.

The books are FULL of reasonable gun laws all over this country. Connecticutt probably has some of the most restrictive. Look at Illinois (Chicago) and the gang carnage/murder there.

I carried a pocket knife to school all through elementary so we could whittle or play knumblypeg at recess. I had friends who took their .22’s to school so they could squirrel hunt afterwards (the teacher would make sure they were unloaded and put them in the clothes closet).

The CULTURE has changed !

“My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” II Chronicles 7:14

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Scout, because you seem unable to spout anything but the NRA nonsense about the Heller case, here is some real info:

On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a 5-4 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess handguns for use in self-defense in a person’s home. However, he stressed that this right is not unlimited.

Although the Court split 5-4 on the whether the right granted by the Second Amendment is tied to militia service, all nine Justices agreed that a wide variety of gun laws are presumptively lawful. The Court listed many types of laws that would not be barred by the Second Amendment and stated that this list does not purport to be exhaustive.
•Bans on gun possession by dangerous persons such as felons and the mentally ill
•Laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings
•Laws imposing conditions and qualifications on gun sales, which could include background checks, licensing, and limits on bulk sales of handguns
•Prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons
•Prohibitions on dangerous and unusual weapons, such as machineguns and military-style semiautomatic assault weapons
•Safe storage laws to prevent gun accidents

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I tell you this, if I know my damned kid was CRAZY I would make sure the right people know it, and I would make sure HE knows I know his ass is crazy, especially if I know that he likes to dabble in the weaponry like so many of these fools do. Body armor, night vision goggles, THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo stockpiled and those types of things. Just like some of the people who are out here on this very blog reading my post. You better believe I have guns, multiple guns. What I do not do though is allow what can become a derangement of sorts to overtake me or become so bitter about things in LIFE that I cannot control to drive me batchyt. YOU people owe it to society to be honest with your crazy assed kinfolk and get them some help. At least be honest enough to let them know that YOU know their ass is crazy. It can make a difference.

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Absolutely horrific. My heart breaks for the parents.

That said, no sort of law or gun control will stop this sort of thing short of stormtroopers going door to door and collecting every citizen’s weapons. That isn’t possible, constitutional, or rational.

More armed teachers is a possible real world solution. It IS possible, constitutional and rational. The only problem is that it doesn’t politically satisfy liberals.

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In Britain they have healthy hunting and sport gun ownership, why do they have so few murders due to gun violence?

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So if a legally armed citizen had been present and started shooting at the nut case after the nut case had only shot 3 or 4 children and the LAC missed and hit one kid, 5 kids would be shot instead of 27 and that would be a bad thing?????

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East Lake Ira

December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
rightwingnutjob:

And before you start with the BS about knives etc, see the crazy guy in China that attacked 20 kids with a knife. Horrific. No deaths.

And that makes it ok??????

The whole point is that there are sadly some sick individuals in this world that want to do harm to others. Firearms are a means to help defend the innocent against these sickos. They are what evens the odds in favor of a woman against a male burglar.

But the main point is that the Second Amendment was not designed for that purpose, though it is a benefit. It is designed to protect the citizens of the once great country against an oppressive government.

Don’t think governments fear an armed citiznery. Ask the Nazis. They disarmed the Jews first. Imagine if the Jews had been allowed to have assault weapons. I would venture to say there wouldn’t have been six million killed.

Ask anyone in North Korea who isn’t too far brainwashed what a well armed citizenry could do against the little dictator.

Ask anyone living under an oppressive government if weapons wouldn’t provide an avenue for freedom.

I know you think these scenarious couldn’t happen here. But as long as there are power hungry people it can happen. Study history and you’ll understand…maybe.

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0311 — “Reasonable rules yes ………… banning no. Next !”

I’m glad to see you’ve joined us over on the Pro-Choice side.

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Indigo @ 4:18

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/

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Tell us about this “culture” @0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

You mean the “culture” I see whenever I go to a GA show?

Or the one where people obsess over “SHTF” scenarios, zombie apocalypse and “bugging out”??

Or the “taking our country back” “culture”??

Or the mass murdering culture that 90% of the time takes place in rural communities, where people don’t have a pot to piss on or window to throw it out of, yet they have all the guns and ammo you could want?

Or the “culture” where so-called parents sit idly by while their kids stockpile weapons from a young age, oftentimes put into their hands by their Paw or Grandpa when they are barely out of diapers (ok, 9)??

Oh, ok…THAT “culture”. I get it.

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Scout

I’m with you about 20% on the increase due to culture. I think that it’s more likely that we’re simply being bombarded with more news and info thanks to advances in technology. These incidents have been happening for a long time. News reporting today isn’t what it was even 30 years ago.

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Many here say we should not have very strict gun laws because it punishes the majority of sensible gun owners.

Imagine that we no longer needed driver’s licenses. The majority of Americans would still drive safely and would make certain their children learned how to drive safely and correctly before giving them the car keys.

Unfortunately, there would be those relatively few dangerous drivers who would cause considerable carnage on our highways(more than we have now). Because of these few irresponsible and mentally deranged people, we all have to be tested and liceensed to legally drive. This is also the case with many prescription medicines.

The same must occur with guns or else these tragedies will continue and possibly increase.

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godless @ 4:39

I’m believing for the both of us today.

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Thank God! we don’t got gratuitous violence like this on the TEEVEE no more!

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I wouldn’t call myself a die hard gun enthusiast as I own several guns, including “Assault Weapons”, and I don’t believe you should ban guns for law abiding citizens. That being said, I think there is middle ground in on this issue of that reasonable people can agree on. Below is what I believe.
1. Gun show Loophole: YES but make the penalty for not doing it extremely harsh. One of the big arguments that gun control advocates state is there should be a background check on guns sold on an individual-to-individual basis. To me this could be solved by requiring these sales occur at a FFL dealer with the buyer paying a fee for the check. People would say, “ this is un-enforceable”. In and of itself, they are correct. However, you also pass laws that say if a gun was found used at a crime scene in which you sold to someone without the background check, YOU (the seller) would be charged with the crime just as the guy who committed it. This would be a pretty good incentive for all person-to-person transactions to go through the background check.
2. Banning so called “Assault Weapons”: NO. There is nothing that makes an “Assault Weapon” any more dangerous that any semi-automatic long rifle. They just look scary.
3. Ban Large capacity clips: YES. Anything the military doesn’t use, neither should individuals. Those 100+ round magazines for AR-15’s and other “Assault Rifles”, who needs them. If they worked so well, why doesn’t the military use them?

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Cops walk around kids all the time with loaded weapons. Go the circus and there will be scads of kids there and lots of cops with guns.

Cops are also taught weapon retention and other defensive skills. If you’re gonna arm teachers, you’ve gotta train them well or it’s a waste of time in my opinion.

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Requiring ID and a background check to buy a gun will unfairly discriminate against the elderly and the poor. Many of them are house-bound and cannot afford to get an ID.

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“…Individuals who once might have stewed, alone, in their twisted anger and bitterness now recognize others like themselves on the evening news, and one violent incident creates a sort of permission for the next.”

Jay, I believe you have hit upon a fundamental truth here.

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Arm the teachers? Sure, like none of them are nuts. And as a whole I like teachers.

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Not to downplay this tragedy, but it is almost amusing that some want to talk about “culture”. I could bring up several issues right now (but I will not waste my time) that were “cultural norms” in the “good ole days” and some of the same ones bringing up culture would be posting about dredging up things and people not being able to let go and move on……

If we want to talk about what used to be better than let’s talk about it all………

But do carry on.

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Sometimes, folks are guilty of wanting it all. “Freedom of speech” is the mantra for so many who incite (yes, words DO cause bones to be broken-see Adolph Hitler)) with their riot inducing or hate inducing verbage yet the right to bear arms is a whole different subject. There needs to be some control, for sure. There are cases like the theater in Colorodo, the nut job at Va. Tech, the mall shooter, and now today’s wack job. Then, look at the killings everyday on the streets of Chicago, for example, and our own capitol, Atlanta. I have a 20 guage shotgun I have had since I was a kid; I have no plans to shoot up a place. What is the answer? We are so politically-correct that we do not (sometimes) cull the nut-jobs/criminals, and thugs among us. Look at the many cases in Atlanta, or Macon…… 99 1/2% of the killers in everyday reports of shootings had a rap sheet bigger than Governor Christie’s lunch box. You will not ever cull them all, but when the signs are there, do SOMETHING! People on Mars now know the Colorodo shooter was a loonie…….the system failed to protect us from him. Sure, everybody is entitled to a defense, but now the taxpayers get to spend millions delving into ths nut-cases mind, with varying opinions depending on defense/prosecution perspective. Take him out, hang him, and screw it. Barbaric? Not as stupid as spending millions, and either killing him 20 years from now or giving him room, board, clothing, medical care and three squares. The idea that Hinckly, for example, should be up for parole is an abomination. Folks, whether its this issue or any others, we are all going to see why there are too many lawyers. They profit off of stuff like this, even as they consider it a sacred duty. We will hear varying opinions, and nobody will have real answers.

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I’m a strong supporter of gun ownership rights, but here’s a trade I’d be willing to make…go ahead and erect as many barriers to purchasing guns as you want…but put the exact same barriers around illegal immigration and illegal voting.

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That’s just pure crazy talk. You want to put a fully loaded firearm within easy reach of a classroom teacher — otherwise it wouldn’t be of much use — yet somehow keep it out of reach of the 20-something kids in that same classroom?

Jay, its called a holster.

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godless

Understandable… I think I’m about to bow out for the evening myself. I’m not really in the mood for reading some of the stupid stuff being posted here.

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Banner123 @ 4:45. Talking sense. I could agree with your proposals.

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The other half, why don’t you go back and read what I have posted. Again, there are many common sense acts that can be taken. Close the gun show loopholes. Stop unlicensed dealers. Stop the insane “George Zimmerman Act”. Do background checks. That is just a start of common sense laws.

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2 more children have died at the hospital. Now 20 children and 6 adults murdered.

Some say it’s not a societal or cultural issue. Sure it is. Look how we treat each other on a simple blog. No respect. No honor. No integrity. Just snarky comments, insults, name calling and the ever so common “piffle” which is just a veiled display of cowardice and disrespect.

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Granny – I think I’ll pass on giving up my only means of defending my family. Thanks for thinking of me though.

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Where’s my Party? – very well said.

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Brosephus, I agree. They just keep ranting the same insanity in various forms. The same posters who scream about “fast and furious” do nothing to provide the tools to law enforcement that they have requested to stop these weapons from unlawfully entering our society.

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East Lake Ira

December 14th, 2012
4:21 pm
TBG – Start at the top of the comments and it’ll make sense. If, after reading you still don’t get my point, you have my pity.
_____________________________
I did. Remember, I was the first (I think( to reply to you and included your own words.

My point is what you suggest WOULD NOT have stopped this or countless other mass shootings.

Nor would make a noticable dent in gun violence as a whole since MOST shootings are with weapons NOT classified as “assault weapons”.

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And once again josef hits the nail on the head. Voyeurism. As the song said, “give us dirty laundry” and that is exactly what we want. It entertains us and gives the media something to feed us. And by being as we are, we continue to perpetuate and encourage these dillusional monsters who think that they can become famous or notorious or whatever just for a few minutes by performing these acts. As I told Ole Granny, the problem IS US. The guns are just one means to an end and if the guns weren’t there then it would be bombs, poison, gas and any number of horrid things that are capable doing much worse than a gun. There is no way to stop a person who has the smarts and time and that wants destruction, notoriety and death. That person will find a way and our society apparently is making more and more of these types of people which means it is screwed absolutely up.

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Damn us all for allowing guns everywhere. How many children need to die before we gather our courage and say enough is enough.
How long before we tell the idiots who think they should be able to buy, own and carry ANY kind of gun they want that we own this country and we won’t allow them to put us all at risk.
Are our children not worth the fight? If not what does it take?

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Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 14th, 2012
4:57 pm

Brosephus, I agree. They just keep ranting the same insanity in various forms. The same posters who scream about “fast and furious” do nothing to provide the tools to law enforcement that they have requested to stop these weapons from unlawfully entering our society.

Keepup, What tools can anyone on this site who complained about F&F have done, do tell.

Do you mean throw out the people who are in office? Thought not. So in all your wisdom please tell us.
You don’t have any better answers than the rest of us.

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Sad day in America – made sadder by some of the jackasses on this blog. You folks act like stupidity and arrogance are virtues.

The problem is like Pandora’s Box -it’s hard to put the mess back in. What we need is a way to keep weapons out of the hands of the deranged while protecting the rights of gun owners.

Like the President said I think we’re all going to hug our kids tonight and count our blessings and ask the Lord to watch over those families in CT tonight.

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Jeff, Your never going to get rid of the guns, what we can do is make our laws extremely tuff on criminals.

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We already do. That’s why the speed limit isn’t 100 mph

But your car, (well not your car Jay) is capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph. Would you support making it illegal to sell or own a car capable of exceeding the speed limit.

And it’s illegal to gun down kids in elementary schools, too.

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I wonder how many people are getting a shiny new gun for Christmas? I hope they say a little prayer for the babies that died in their kindergarten class every time they shoot a round.

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I hope they say a little prayer for the babies that died in their kindergarten class every time they shoot a round.

Good idea.

I plan on going to the range sometime during the next couple of weeks and I will do just that.

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[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V84STSWVp3g

God is greeting 20 new angels tonight.

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JAY

I do wish you would post the FNM you had planned. This, here, is the place to grieve, vent, and all that goes with these examples of us at our worst. There is the place we celebrate life. We need a little of that, too, at this time.

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I wonder how many people are getting a shiny new gun for Christmas? I hope they say a little prayer for the babies that died in their kindergarten class every time they shoot a round.

Nominated for most insipid statement of the day.

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People need to start beating their kids and putting the fear of GOD into them, that’s it.. Then they won’t hit age 24, and shoot their parents and 20 innocents with them because their parents told them it’s time to move out. There is no respect in families anymore, no understanding, and no one is helping the people in need, it’s all about them and only them, and when they don’t get what they want, they find a way to get a gun instead of dealing with life. Also these kids are morons, 90 percent of people having kids today, shouldn’t have kids, and then their kids have kids. Anyone notice we are getting dumber as a society? Of course you have.. It starts with asking for socialism when you have the greatest country of all, and ends with ??? How many people believe in global warming because Al Gore sold it? You’re morons.. Read the facts, for years people have been increasing their investment values by changing the demand and fabricating research (by fabricating I mean supporting the facts which will benefit you).. Do you even know why most people put toilet paper to roll out from the top instead of bottom? Research by the toilet paper company to tell you that you can see where it ends, easier to tear, etc.. All because you will use more of it.. Wow… I’m done, I can’t believe I even took the time to write this, only about 1 percent of you will even come close to understanding what I just said.. I hope one of these pricks comes into my house or office with the intentions of taking lives, that, I guarantee you will make news…

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The other half of your brain.

December 14th, 2012
5:07 pm

Well I imagine the federal government could get $200 million worth of counterfiet bills off the streets. My statement was less guns less gun violence. Less gas in my car the fewer miles I can drive. Less sweets fewer cavities….see where that was going?

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It starts with asking for socialism when you have the greatest country of all, and ends with…

Aaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddd, I stop reading.

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To that, I say, it sure looks like God picked a bad day to take off and go fishing.

Word!

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Well @rightwingextreme
December 14th, 2012
4:47 pm

While you do nothing than further the initiial silly point I sought to counter from the beginning. That “culture” that you speak of is MUCH DIFFERENT and has social implications and is a byproduct of economics rather than the inability of one to deal with the world because he holds THE HIGHEST SENSE OF PRIVILEGE BECAUSE IT IS HOW HE HAS BEEN PROGRAMMED. The facts speak for themselves. It is not “punk rappers”, drug dealers and those in “the hood” who to commit the lowest most despicable acts of sick mass murder. That’s a “culture” that has as part of it a hyper paranoid, ultra-entitled mindset. If I can’t have it, NO ONE should have it. Poor little me, so I have to massacre everyone so that they will feel MY pain. Despicable.

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indigo: Cars are built for transportation purposes and drivers are required to be tested and licensend. Also, we have police on the roads to(hopefully) stop and arrest dangerous drivers.

You are dodging the question. Would you sacrifice your freedom to drive at dangerous speeds, for the children?

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Chris Gurin – “what is the problem gun advocates have”

The problem is that the gun advocates who count are Republican politicans who will do anything to protect the profits of their corporate sponsors. Little things like mass murders don’t seem to bother either the Republicans or their Big Business masters one bit.

It’s really as simple as that.

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josef, politics is going to be the death of all of us (and that is not a joke). Too many now are making too much money off of political division. Politicians, journalists and miriad of industries are built upon it. And meanwhile our country crumbles.

So, why not listen to music? It is the last pure thing we have now.

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And indigo, the current laws apparently are not working, as hundreds of children are dieing every year from excessive speed on the highways. Which of your freedoms are you willing to give up to stop the carnage? I proposed a solution that would save almost everyone of those kids – physically limit the speed of every truck and car to 25 mph. Are you with me?

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I don’t know if Jay is gonna do the music thing today, but this one sprang to mind while I was reading the news accounts of the tragedy in CT:

David Archuleta’s “Falling”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_uRxxfVx5Q

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But Jay, it’s illegal to exceed the speed limit and it’s not working – kids are being killed at an alarming rate. Lets quit selling cars that will go more than 70.

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pogo

Thank you.

I know to some it may seem selfish on my part. But, given my job and my workplace, I’ve had this too much on my mind. Call it escapism, but, yes, it is…

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“We already do. That’s why the speed limit isn’t 100 mph.”

Why not make super high-powered turbo boosters, rockets, etc. available on cars to those who can afford them and want that “freedom”?

The argument for unlimited gun freedoms collapses the moment you actually examine it at a strictly logical level

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alex, can’t you find some nice private cesspool to wallow around in?

Jay for the love of ___, put up something musical. Maybe something festive.

There will be lots of time in the next couple of days for grief and sobbing, but lets live a little first, huh?

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SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS!

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getalife

The tragedy is that this has become so common that we actually have a “footing” we go onto when this happens.

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willie lynch

December 14th, 2012
5:04 pm
Guns in the hands of the general populace are unnecessary. How many armed citizens do we need patrolling the streets? We can shoot kids for playing music in a manner we’re not happy with or shoot them because they didn’t looked like they belonged.

We’ve got armed people patrolling our streets they’re called the police. Less guns less gun violence. Seems pretty simple.
_______________________________________
If a man with a carry permit comes home and finds someone assulting has wife, should he:

a) use his weapon to stop the assult
b) call the police
c) ask the man to stop assulting his wife

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“”"”"”"”"”"”"The NRA relentlessly tried to destroy the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) since it was created in 1972. They came close under Ronald Reagan in 1981, when the NRA pushed legislation to abolish the agency. Realizing that federal gun law enforcement would transfer to the then much esteemed Secret Service, the NRA scuttled the proposal. Ironically, when Reagan was shot that year, ATF agents were crawling over boxes in warehouses in order to follow the paper trail of purchases and gun ownership of the gun used to shoot Reagan and his Press Secretary Jim Brady. The NRA had successfully blocked computerization of records because that would amount to registration.

Newspaper headlines documented dogs obtaining federal firearms licenses to sell guns and individuals selling guns from the trunk of their cars. Big city mayors were outraged and in 1993, Governor Douglas Wilder, Virginia’s first black governor, instituted the One-Gun-A-Month Law.

The NRA’s relentless attacks on federal and state gun laws continued. Its’ support of the national database for criminal background checks was conditioned on prohibiting local ATF offices or other law enforcement agencies from accessing this information, further limiting ATF’s investigative powers. The NRA also required that all records pertaining to the background checks be immediately destroyed. The NRA’s Republican allies in congress also blocked legislation that would ban cop-killer bullets and assault weapons and close the gun show loopholes.

This past February, after almost 20 years, Virginia Republican Governor Bob McDonnell repealed the One-Gun-a-Month Law despite pleas from family members of shooting victims at Virginia Tech.”"”"”
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2012/06/former-atf-agent-blasts-gop-fast-furious-foolishness/

Leave it to “Governor Ultrasound” to protect those second amendment rights. Thank God for the NRA- protector of our individual right to own any weapon of choice.

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Why not make super high-powered turbo boosters, rockets, etc. available on cars to those who can afford them and want that “freedom”?

I’m not aware of any speed restriction laws. If you have the money you can buy and own a street legal car that will go over 200 mph.

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If a man with a carry permit comes home and finds someone assulting has wife

The #1 danger to a wife is her husband. Sad but true. Give that husband a gun and he’s much more likely to shoot his wife than some stranger who crawled in the window to assault her.

There’s a lot of men who are totally irrational when guns are the subject. I wish they could admit that.

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The shooter probably did not have automatic guns unless they were altered.Most people I know call semi automatic,automatics.Looks like conn,has pretty strict gun laws and ownership is low.I believe our school resources officer carry arms,hope that is a deterrent.Sad very sad.

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40 or 50 years ago people didn’t carry AR-15s, etc. If you had a gun, it was probably a revolver, 6 shots. Not a rapid fire weapon with potentially more than one clip.
Those are needed for hunting, right? Anyone who does not favor eliminating those sorts of weapons helped contribute to the sheer level of killing today. The killer was clearly mentally ill, but he was a mentally ill person with access to weapons with a high rate of fire. That has to stop, now.
And for the dummies out there with the “it’s the person that committed the crime, not the guns”, he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons.

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Aquagirl

December 14th, 2012
5:40 pm
If a man with a carry permit comes home and finds someone assulting has wife

The #1 danger to a wife is her husband. Sad but true. Give that husband a gun and he’s much more likely to shoot his wife than some stranger who crawled in the window to assault her.

There’s a lot of men who are totally irrational when guns are the subject. I wish they could admit that.
_____________________________________________
I get that Aquagirl, my point is sometimes you do not have the luxury of being able to wait for the police.

For the most part, the police do not prevent crime, they respond after the crime has been comitted.

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Wait a minute

December 14th, 2012
5:44 pm
40 or 50 years ago people didn’t carry AR-15s, etc. If you had a gun, it was probably a revolver, 6 shots. Not a rapid fire weapon with potentially more than one clip. – You do know that the .45 cal semi-auto pistol has been around longet than 40 or 50 years?

Those are needed for hunting, right? Anyone who does not favor eliminating those sorts of weapons helped contribute to the sheer level of killing today. The killer was clearly mentally ill, but he was a mentally ill person with access to weapons with a high rate of fire. – rate of fire for a “6 shooter” and a Glock .40 cal still depends on squeezing the trigger for each shot.

That has to stop, now. And for the dummies out there with the “it’s the person that committed the crime, not the guns”, he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons. – How many people were killed in the OKC bombing? How about the Bath school bombing that killed 38? No guns used in those killings.

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I get that Aquagirl, my point is sometimes you do not have the luxury of being able to wait for the police.

Then why didn’t you say “a man is assaulted by an intruder?” Think about it. It’s not a coincidence that you went for Teh Man As Teh Protector scenario.

That’s not a bad thing by the way, I am not criticizing you for being like that. A man who runs while his wife is assaulted is a worthless sack of $#!^. I’m saying you should be aware that the mere mention of gun control sort of hits some men where it counts, so to speak. That prevents rational discussion.

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Why not make it possible for people to go five and six hundred mph, or higher, for extra efficiency and exhilaration. People have a right to that you know.

It’s not illegal, although the legal limit any where is 70. It is illegal to shoot people, yet some want to take away my right to own a gun that is capable of shooting people.

Folks are always eager to take away other people’s freedom to engage in an activity they don’t participate in, but when the scenario is reversed, i.e. when I propose taking away their freedom to own a car that will exceed the legal limit, they always try to find a way to say, “But, that’s different.”

Game, set, match.

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TBG:
Those are needed for hunting, right?

You need a car that will go 100 mph?

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willie lynch

December 14th, 2012
5:51 pm
That Black Guy

December 14th, 2012
5:34 pm

I see that Aqua Girl has already stated what studies have concluded concerning guns in the home but for the sake of giggles I’ll say: a).

So I’ll ask what does the same man do without the permit to carry and without the weapon? We can use the same solutions you posed to me giving you broad discretion on your choice of weapon for answer- a)
________________________________________________________
Well, first I guess the husband :

a) will hope the assailant does not have a gun, because if he does, his choice of weapon will not matter much.

My point to you was the police generally do not prevent crime, they respond to it.

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Aquagirl

December 14th, 2012
5:59 pm
I get that Aquagirl, my point is sometimes you do not have the luxury of being able to wait for the police.

Then why didn’t you say “a man is assaulted by an intruder?” Think about it. It’s not a coincidence that you went for Teh Man As Teh Protector scenario.

That’s not a bad thing by the way, I am not criticizing you for being like that. A man who runs while his wife is assaulted is a worthless sack of $#!^. I’m saying you should be aware that the mere mention of gun control sort of hits some men where it counts, so to speak. That prevents rational discussion.
_____________________________________
Point taken, understood, and agreed with.

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godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 14th, 2012
6:03 pm
TBG:
Those are needed for hunting, right?

You need a car that will go 100 mph?
_____________________________
Those weren’t my words, I was responding to Wait a minute’s comment at 5:44.

But, yeah, I do need a car that can go 100 mph.

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@Willie – “Guns in the hands of the general populace are unnecessary. How many armed citizens do we need patrolling the streets? We can shoot kids for playing music in a manner we’re not happy with or shoot them because they didn’t looked like they belonged.

We’ve got armed people patrolling our streets they’re called the police. Less guns less gun violence. Seems pretty simple.”

I received a call informing me that my security alarm was going off. I worked 20 minutes from home. I got there 15 minutes before the police did. A similar incident was recently experienced by a neighbor. Let’s say it was something more serious than a home burglary while no one was at home. If you have to wait 35 minutes for a police officer to show up, chances are you will be dead. I think I’ll retain my firearms, thank you very much.

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I agree with what most gun control advocates propose. It is WAAAY too easy to get a gun in this country.

And yet, most men can’t admit that completely evident point due to the, um, shrivel factor. All they can think of is “what about MY man feelings?” It’s like they’re watching football or porn. The front part of their brains shuts down like a small town at 5pm.

Sorry about your nephew, that sucks.

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Aquagirl

December 14th, 2012
4:06 pm

Just one gun could have halted this as it started. No action heroes required. Just someone who knows what they are doing.

Even police (who are trained for these situations and DO know what they’re doing) sometimes shoot innocent people.

And is the cost of one innocent life worth saving 18 others?

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Okay, so some of you argue that guns serve no legitimate purpose and therefore should be illegal for civilians to own.

Please, someone tell me what legitimate purpose alcohol serves? Do we need it to survive? Does it make us smarter or more productive?

Alcohol linked to 75,000 U.S. deaths a year
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/#.UMuzaXddWuk

You want to protect your grandchildren? Go make booze illegal, then talk to me about my guns. My guns serve a more legitimate purpose than anyone’s inebriating beverage. I’d like to see you defend your family in your home with a beer, or hunt for food with a bottle of malbec.

But you probably know that the government tried to make alcohol illegal once and it didn’t work. Heroin and crack and meth serve no legitimate purpose and they *are* illegal. Good thing no one dies from those drugs each year, right?

Making something illegal is not magic.

And the anti-”assault weapon” bandwagon is just silly. Absolutely not one poster advocating banning “assault weapons” has any clue about guns, doesn’t understand the difference between an automatic or semi-automatic weapons, and couldn’t even say why a supposed “assault weapon” is more scary or dangerous than a hunting rifle. These are just emotional, uneducated, and yes, unreasonable condemnations of guns that simply look scary.

And those of you that think these crazy guys are some kind of well-versed supersoldier or well-trained gun expert…if they had any sense they wouldn’t even try using 50-100 round magazines (they are NOT clips!) because those are junk that just about always jam.

Really…I read this blog and I see far more sense and reason from 2nd Amendment supporters and far more insults and emotional response from the anti-gun crowd. It’s really no wonder why we can’t have a “reasonable” discussion about gun control in this country….

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And those of you that think the police will protect you….

I’m from New Orleans, I had friends that stayed behind when Katrina hit. The police *disappeared*. One female friend of mine told me how she slept during the day and hid in a closet with a machete during the night listening to the bands of roving criminals kicking in doors of homes around her neighborhood, people screaming, glass breaking…there were no police to protect her. Really though, I heard lots of similar accounts.

Don’t think it can’t happen again. Our society is not nearly as stable as most like to believe it is.

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Aquagirl

December 14th, 2012
6:22 pm
I agree with what most gun control advocates propose. It is WAAAY too easy to get a gun in this country.

And yet, most men can’t admit that completely evident point due to the, um, shrivel factor. All they can think of is “what about MY man feelings?” It’s like they’re watching football or porn. The front part of their brains shuts down like a small town at 5pm.
______________________________
I’ve evolved.

I was able to talk my nephew into getting rid of the gun.

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Nunna Yobinnes

December 14th, 2012
6:17 pm

So you’ll run home and risk being shot in the head for some property that you pay an insurance company to cover? You make my point. Guns are like beer goggles everything looks possible when you’re under the influence of invincibility.

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How can we stop someone from taking their mother’s legal handguns and doing something this horrible? How can someone be this mentally ill?

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I agree assault weapon laws should be extremely strict. However, that has nothing to do with today. These were legally owned handguns. What gun control law could prevent this?

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There were no assault weapons used today.

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godless – 6:54

For many years I owned VW beetles. The top speed is around 70 for these vehicles. So, yes, I would give up my freedom to buy a car that would go over 70. That, in fact is a good idea as many lives would be saved.

Now, answer my question. Would you pay extra for cars with NASCAR technology that would allow almost certain survival even at 60 or 70 mph crashes, for the children?

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godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me

December 14th, 2012
6:58 pm

I had a car stolen one time. I got another one. Go figure.

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“There were no assault weapons used today.”

Mike, do you know for sure what was used? I haven’t heard that officially yet from any credible source.

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Yeah, I just read more about it, it was an assault rifle, I don’t see a place for these weapons in the public.

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Every one===THE “ASSAULT” RIFLE WAS IN THE CAR—he did not use it in the school. So just give it up on that argument,

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Willie Lynch-

Are you able to communicate without being a sarcastic jerk?

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Willie Lynch-

I would say a low percentage of elementary school teachers own assualt weapons, would you disagree?

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” But there’s no reason ”

Just because you see no reason is NO REASON why they shouldn’t be allowed to own them. I haven’t said it should be EASY to own them, but there’s NO REASON it should be impossible.

I once got threatened with being turned in to animals control because there was NO REASON I should own 10 dogs.

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Do you gun people sit at your dinner table with your gun on your hip?

If I want to, I do. It’s called freedom. Look into it.

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“If you believe gun ownership is a right why would it be a surprise that a teacher might own an assault rifle?”

I’ve been teaching over twenty years, half of that in a rural setting popular for hunters. NONE of my colleagues own assault rifles. That would be stupid to have for hunting, unless you like pulverizing deer.

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“I haven’t said it should be EASY to own them, but there’s NO REASON it should be impossible.”

Yeah, there is. There were 20 of those reasons sitting in that classroom today. I have two kids, and they’re powerful enough reason for me to say NOBODY needs to own that kind of assault weapon designed for military use in WAR…period.

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” Laws need to be much tighter, not good when a mentally ill person can get their hands on assault weapons.”

I heard an interview with a psychiatrist this afternoon. Basically, he said there’s no way to identify people who do these horrors in advance of the act. That as a rule they tend to be people that externalize that bad things that happen to them, that it’s always someone else fault…not theirs and they take it out on others.

The interviewer asked about signs that might indicate such a person, and he said that while it’s apparent what the signs are AFTER the horror…the problem is that millions of people have those same signs, but never get to the point where they attack others.

He also said there’s pretty much nothing we can do to prevent such things from happening.

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Woodstock Mike

December 14th, 2012
7:18 pm

Respectfully, I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t expect the Catholic church of being complicit in pedophilia but who knew? Point is I believe anyone is capable of anything at any given time. There’s not much that surprises me or makes me say “I would never have thought”.

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To paraphrase Edna St Vincent Millay: It’s not freedom’s going that pains my days, but that it went in such little ways.

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Willie, if you can’t distinguish the difference between how you would respond to a home invasion than a burglary taking place while you were away from home, then your beyond most reasonable means of help. What part of the police taking 35 minutes to respond were you having trouble with? If someone came into your house while you were there, I don’t think asking them to refrain from violence against me or my family, pending the not-so-immediate arrival of the police, would do me much good, do you? Life insurance doesn’t bring back the dead (sorry to alarm your misguided train of thought.)

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I have an 8 yr old, couldn’t possibly imagine sending him to school and something like this taking place. I feel terrible for these parents. Get assault weapons out of the public or explain to me why we need them?

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indigo

December 14th, 2012
6:36 pm

goodlees – 5:18

YOU are dodging the question.

That crazy fool did not drive a car into the school and kill all those people. He used a gun. Comparing cars and guns is apples and oranges.

And, yes, I’v been driving since I was 14 and have always given up my freedom to drive as fast as possible. As for limiting the cars to 25 mph, that would cripple our transportation. However, if you’re really serious, which I doubt, we could get automakers to go to NASCAR and use some of their technology to make cars very safe at 60.

Would you be willing to pay extra for safer cars, for the children?

So the only answer in your mind is to take all guns away from all people? Yes, the guy was crazy so maybe the real answer is to put to death all crazy people before they have a chance to kill other people?

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willie:

One could argue that you’re not very free if you have to sit around your own home tethered to a gun.

Freedom means I can live my life as I choose. If sitting around the house tethered to a gun is the way I choose to live my life, it should not be of concern to you.

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Sorry doggone, got you and godless heathen confused there for a sec about the car analogy.

“He also said there’s pretty much nothing we can do to prevent such things from happening.”

Absolutely true- but I’d feel a little better if the would-be shooters were packing a little less firepower. That’s one reason I don’t think semi-automatic weapons should be sitting in grandma’s china cabinet or in the nightstand drawer.

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“Absolutely true- but I’d feel a little better if the would-be shooters were packing a little less firepower”

And everyone who says something like that CANNOT answer the question of how to stop them from getting illegal guns. Restricting the ability of law abiding owner is NOT going to stop the black market sale of such guns, and someone determined to have one WILL get one.

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Maybe I misread your statement. I thought you said you worked 20 mins from home and you arrived 15 mins before the police. My response was to that point, of you rushing to protect property. That’s why I pay insurance and why my taxes go to fund the police force. In the event of a home invasion, which I hope neither of us will ever have to experience, most of them are by nature surprise events which rarely if ever end up with the homeowner coming out on top with or without a gun in the home.

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RF

December 14th, 2012
7:41 pm

Show me the report that says the 223 weapon was 1: even used and 2: was fully automatic?

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“And everyone who says something like that CANNOT answer the question of how to stop them from getting illegal guns. Restricting the ability of law abiding owner is NOT going to stop the black market sale of such guns, and someone determined to have one WILL get one”

I’m not saying there is a way to do it, just thinking there should be. It’s like pandora’s box- now that there are so many in civilian use, it will be hard to stop. But we have to try- and making them illegal will help keep a few out of circulation. It’s a complicated issue to solve, but I think the legal sale of them needs to stops now so that we can begin to figure out how to get some of the rest back out of circulation. I don’t think some of those who have used them in this manner would have had the money, time, or connections to buy them on the black market.

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“Absolutely true, but that still doesn’t justify a person having the ability to fire multiple rounds per second and pull of the trigger. ”

And because a disturbed person uses a gun to kill randomly is no reason to make it impossible for law abiding gun enthusiasts to own one

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“I’m not saying there is a way to do it, just thinking there should be”

That’s the “somebody should do something” defense. Well, if YOU can’t think of anything…what makes you think anyone else can?

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“Without one, not much chance of coming out alive or not experiencing severe trauma”

Not a given. If you look into it you might be surprised at how many defensive techniques there are that an unarmed person can use.

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Okay, Doggone, here’s my solution.

1. Make them illegal, period.

2. Ad campaign to further the image of them as unnecessary and bad to own.

3. Incentives for giving them up, or registration for keeping them. Then we know where at least a few are.

4. Stiffer punishments if used in a crime.

Any of that guaranteed or perfect? NOPE, but it’s a start. What’s your solution? Just ignore them?

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I don’t own a gun…not even a bb-gun. I’m not sure what the gun laws are now, but I wouldn’t have a problem with more gun control. Of course, that won’t stop what happened today….and it won’t stop it the next time.

It takes a very sick individual to do this.

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Doggone, I’m not Bruce Lee, Kwai Chang Cain, Walker Texas Ranger or John Rambo. I think my odds would be better with a firearm.

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“None of the weapons found today meets that definition”

Kamchak: Maybe not, we’ll see I guess. My knowledge of Sig Sauers, while limited, is generally that they are semi-automatic. In my understanding, that means several rounds fireable in a short time from a clip without the need to cock the pistol each time. I’m no gun enthusiast, so feel free to clear up my lack of experience and knowledge.

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“Doggone, I’m not Bruce Lee, Kwai Chang Cain, Walker Texas Ranger or John Rambo”

And you aren’t even curious enough to look into it and find out you don’t have to be any of those. You’ll be in a world of hurt if you ever get disarmed.

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:I take it you think all Semi-Auto pistols should be outlawed?”

I don’t know, td, I honestly don’t know. The scared parent in me says YES, but the realistic citizen knows that can’t be done. Do we need to make schools fortresses? The scared parent says YES, but that’s not realitic either. Frustrated like many, I wonder what we can do. But throwing our hands up and throwing the second amendment up isn’t doing anything to help either.

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“Make them harder to get. Make the requirements for ownership and protection stiffer. Make it a law that ALL guns currently in legal ownership, and ALL guns available for sale legally have their bullet markings recorded with the serial number of the gun and the name and SSN of the owner. Make the background checks stiffer and more complete.”

NOW you’re talking. Seems that wouldn’t be so hard to do, but so many are either afraid to do it, or it isn’t politically popular to do so. I wonder if we’ll ever get to something that sensible.

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“However unless you can engage the intruder at close range without him being able to use a weapon”

If he’s close enough to disarm you, he’s close enough to be vulnerable to those techniques.

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” I wonder if we’ll ever get to something that sensible.”

Well, money talks…and the NRA has a LOT of money.

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We talk about violence and its prevalence in our society, but let us not forget that at the root of all government action is violence. Government does not create money, it must take it from others before it has any to spend. This involves violence (theft). Government does not allow individuals to live their lives as they see fit so long as they do no harm to others. Quite the contrary. Our government encarcerates more people than any other on the planet and most for ingesting chemicals the government does not approve of. Once again, violence against individuals because of government’s opposition to free choice. Ultimately EVERY action of government comes without choice and is backed up by violence, guns, and death as the ultimate penalty.

Our government currently has troops stationed in over 170 countries on earth in over 1200 bases. They take money by force from citizens in this country to give to tyrrants in other countries so they can oppress their own people (among other things). They fly drone aircraft over sovereign nations and shoot missles at people without due process, kill them, and consider anyone over the age of 15 and male a viable target if they are in the area. Our president maintains a “kill” list and has even ordered the assassination of 2 american citizens without due process (one a 16 year old). These drones kill hundreds of innocent men, women, and children in the process (even if our lapdog media don’t bother to cover this on the evening news). Our government is currently waging a financial and economic embargo against the people of Iran because it does not like their government. At least 50% of the people in this country do not like our president and over 80% do not like our congress. We hold elections every 2 years, cannot seem to fix our problems with goverment, yet we condemn 45 million Iranians to starvation and death because they will not get rid of their government. In the 90’s our sanctions led to the deaths of 1.5 million Iraqis including 500,000 children. Madeline Albright, our secretary of state said on 60 minutes that she felt these deaths were “worth it” to achieve regime change in Iraq (as if that is up to us to decide).

So when we speak of violence, we do not need to look to the TV, video games, the internet, or our inner cities. Violence begins at the very core of our society – our government. Government by some definitions is the group of people who reserve the right of legalized violence in a given geographic area. Are they really anything but? The moral behavior we expect and demand of our fellow citizens becomes irrelevant when we discuss government and the things it does (sometimes on our behalf – theft).

Just what kind of violence to YOU endorse with your vote and your political beliefs? Our children aren’t missing the messages we are sending about right and wrong.

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Its time to take a seriously hard look at our love affair with guns.

Before i start, let me clarify something:

**I am a gun owner — I own multiple guns/rifles. I also have a hunting license and have been out hunting in the past 3 years, (i Hate to hunt, but my hubby, brothers, etc. like to do it so…..) – I have been trained to use a gun and a rifle and I regularly go to the gun range to keep my skills up.

**I also own 3 “Attack Dogs”; who are trained to protect me.

**I also have a 3rd degree black belt.

**I have all these things because of MY past experiences and MY neurosis. AND because I lived alone while my husband was overseas.

However –

I’m now living in my sister’s house with an infant, a mentally challenged 60 year old woman, and a woman who about to deliver twins any day….

So my guns are locked at all times -

– A locked gun won’t be able to protect me in a “situation”; BUT my 3rd degree black belt and my dogs may.

My point is — You can’t always depend on a gun — so you’d better have a back up plan just in case you can’t get to your gun

Also the dogs, since there IS a toddler in the house, are now at my cousin’s house in Douglasville until after I move back into my place — its safer for everyone to NOT have dogs/toddlers together.

AND my heart my bleed for the pain and suffering of others and I may be the biggest bleeding liberal you will ever see……..

……….but I didn’t grow up an Army Brat for nothing.

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But throwing our hands up and throwing the second amendment up isn’t doing anything to help either.

Word.

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Everyone knows that…

In no way, shape, form or fashion do you possess the authority to define what it is that I know.

A gun show on the other hand is quite the opposite.

At every gun show that I have attended, loaded weapons are expressly forbidden.

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Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes – Of course you stopped reading. Nobody like facing the reality that they are the recipient of stolen goods or that their political philosophy ultimately involves violence against another (or everyone ultimately). I understand your inability to face these realities, but please explain how I am wrong.

When a private business offers me a service or a product, I am not forced to buy, I am not force to hand over my money, I am allowed to go and look elsewhere for the good or service or acquire it myself from the sweat of my brow. If that business uses force, fraud, or other violent means against me it is a crime. The government does not act in this market-based system. It is a monopoly that one has no choice regarding.

One can hide behind words like “democracy” which the founding fathers referred to as “mob rule.” One can hide behind concepts like “majority rule” or “rule of law,” but ultimately the actions that an individual is not allowed by natural law to commit – murder, theft, assault, violence against another, etc. all become conveniently “legal” if a “government” says so (at least for them). Thus the immorality of government.

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Enter your comments here”At every gun show that I have attended, loaded weapons are expressly forbidden”

And yet…not to long ago, couple/three years maybe, a kid was killed when a loaded gun went off and killed him..at a gun show.

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Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes – Of course you stopped reading.

Aaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddd I stopped reading — again.

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“The fact is that someone with a mental disorder SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO GUNS. Period.”

And that FACT IS that most killers like this present NO SIGNS of mental disturbance UNTIL the commit their crime.

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“For the defense arguers, if it takes 19 rounds to settle an argument — you probably shouldn’t own a hand gun.”

Yeah, I think you’re right!!

DDR: in most cases, the one needing the gun for defense can’t get to it fast enough as the aggressor usually has his/her gun already pointed with a finger on the trigger. Most would do better to have the dogs or martial arts skills. I had a drunk fool show up on my doorstep banging on the door one night thinking he was at home. By the time I was able to get a gun out of the closet and find the bullets (store separately of course), the cops were already here en masse and had him entertained with more than my front door.

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“And that FACT IS that most killers like this present NO SIGNS of mental disturbance UNTIL the commit their crime.”

Even if they do, it’s rarely something you recognize as potentially violent. What bothers me is that so many people, for perfectly legitimate reasons, have multiple guns available in their homes when one would do. Hell one guy having a bad day can turn violent for no apparent reason. I just wish, and that’s all it is- a wish, that we didn’t have such an emotional dependence on something as deadly as a gun. A day like today, as a parent and teacher, is just rough to watch unfold without wishing that.

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The 2nd ammendment was written when we had NO large professional standing Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard. At that time, citizen soldiers were the only real defence for our very young Country. So, the “right to keep and bear arms” was meant for the Country’s defence, NOT personal home defence.

If any of you insist on your “right to keep and bear arms” you’ll have to look elsewhere in the Constitution.

If we started, say 30 years ago, allowing only our Military and Police to have guns, imagine how many Americans, men, women and CHILDREN, would still be alive now.

Sleep tight.

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I’m out of here for today. Painful day, one teenager out with the buddies and the other one here. Think I’ll go hug the stinker and thank God we’re alright for now. Twenty families won’t get to hug their kids tonight, and that makes my heart heavy and makes me want to do something, even while I know there’s really nothing I can do in the short term. Goodnight all.

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“The 2nd ammendment was written when we had NO large professional standing Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard. At that time, citizen soldiers were the only real defence for our very young Country

Doesn’t matter. The Constitution places no restrictions that encompass a standing army and such. Of course, I have a different take on it. I think EVERYONE who legally owns a gun should be required to be a member of an official militia. Even if they can’t be a “foot soldier” they can to office work, or maintenance…and attend regular and recorded session on gun use and safty.

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Indigo, maybe you should bother to read the history of countries with only military and police ownership of guns. I would suggest as examples Nazi Germany, communist China and East Germany, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Cambodia, I think you get the picture.

Then I would suggest you do some internet searches on police shootings of innocents, military shootings of innocents, and the like.

Your mentality is what dictators like Hitler and Stalin love to have prevalent in their societies. Our founding fathers (you can read the Anti-Federalist Papers, the Federalist Papers, and the ratification convention documents from the 13 colonies) made it very clear that the second amendment was about providing the citizens the mechanism for overthrowing a tyrranical government, not about hunting, etc. They were also fearful of a standing army and thus did not have one. Again, see my points about totalitarian dictatorships and who is allowed to own guns in those societies.

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everything Indigo says is just off the chain. I think he’s a cornball cracker….

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RF – How sad a day it is when we think it’s “poor preparation” not to have one loaded in the nightstand.

And just how is keeping a gun stored separately from the ammunition considered “good preparation?” In a house with no children there are no issues and there are plenty of reliable gun “safes” with pushbutton combination locks that can be secured by the bedside if needed.

Guns are inanimate objects. It takes a person to make them work. Don’t ascribe more to them than they deserve.

God helps those who help themselves.

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In the 20th century alone it is estimated by some historians that GOVERNMENTS murdered over 200 million of their own citizens.

And some people think that only government employees like the police and military should have guns. I would imagine of a poll of those 200 million (or their family members) would yield a different opinion.

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“I would imagine of a poll of those 200 million (or their family members) would yield a different opinion”

Because hand guns, rifles, shotguns and even assault weapons are just the ideal weapons against things like airborn bombs, tanks, missiles and chemical weapons. Yep, really useful.

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WHO REALLY CARES!
We have a Supreme Court Decision that says “security of a free state” is irrelevant to the individual’s God given right to own any gun with any amount of ammo. Thank you NRA and Antonin Scalia and your fellow toadies on the Court.. That preamble to the second amendment was just jibberish by a bunch of guys with wigs. Great to have those activist judges who know how to rewrite the Constitution to satisfy the NRA.That’s what Judges are for.

Entire Congress, Supreme Court and President bow down to every utterance of the NRA. We the people do not count. Look at other Civilized countries gun control laws and you will see how backward we are. Try a full background check by a police officer or military official to get a gun. Oh that might infringe on those sacred rights?

How many illegal guns did good ole Gawgia put in circulation today with its gun fetish?

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Aquagirl – So secure all loaded guns in the house. Whatever works for you. The point I was trying to make is that if a gun is to be in the house for protection, it most certainly IS poor preparation if you have it stored in a closet somewhere separate from the ammunition and that there are plenty of secure and reliable means of securing a loaded weapon.

Why are ad-hominem arguments pulled out of the weeds the best that most anti-gun types can come up with when discussing guns, gun safety, and the god-given right to defend your own life (against whomever, including your government)?

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OH NOES! NOT THE AD HOMINEM ATTACK CARD!

I’m melting…melting…melting…..

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“Where there are more guns there are more homicides. ”

All freedoms have their cost. A friend from Europe once asked my why American seem to find it so hard to have what she called “sensible” laws (she wasn’t neccessarily talking about guns) and I said to her: “you” send your misfits, criminals, anti-status quo types here to get rid of them from “your” society…and then expect them to create a country that is conformist? Not likely.

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“”"”"”"”"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”"”"”"”"”"”"”"

At the request of the NRA, the first part of that amendment is hereby declared obsolete as well as all prior court decisions interpreting it. It shall now read “”The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”"”
You are now free to get a gun wheneever you have that urge to kill someone. Frreedom always trumps security. That’s why you need judges.

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“At the request of the NRA, the first part of that amendment is hereby declared obsolete as well as all prior court decisions interpreting it. It shall now read “”The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”””

Well, they are 2 separate thoughts. Related, but separate. And there’s nothing in that to indicate that the right to bear arms should be universal and unregulated.

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Why are ad-hominem arguments pulled out of the weeds

Maybe it’s because we keep hearing “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”

Why are unrealistic sombuddys-gunna-rape-MAH-WIFE arguments pulled out of the weeds the best that gun huggers can come up with? Nobody buys a gun thinking “this is a great model, I won’t feel a thing when my wife shoots me to death 5 years from now while we argue over a credit card bill?” Everyone is utterly convinced their gun will save them from rapists, evil government, Viking marauders, and the heartbreak of psoriasis–which are all lurking around the corner right this second. Nobody thinks their grandchild will shoot another kid in the head while playing with a gun. Yet it somehow happens.

I’m sick and tired of everyone claiming they’re not within 10 million miles of being “that guy.” It’s like those blogs about kids acting up in restaurants…suddenly every poster is a concerned parent and oh no, their kids don’t bother other people.

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How did I know the leftest would turn this story into “git rid of all guns”.

Well you all just need to get over it because it is NOT going to happen. The is a pesky little Constitutional Amendment that says the people have the right to keep and bear arms. If you do a little historical research the reason for this amendment by our founding fathers was to scare the government so that they did not think they had the power and authority but rather the people did.

If you want these kind of insane mass murder sprees to not happen in the future then you all need to figure out a way to control the crazy people not take the guns away from all the sane people.

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On the NRA website it says. “The primary goal of the NRA would be to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis.”

It also says, “NRA the premier firearms education organization in the world.”

MALARKEY

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Once again the idiot NRA mantra of “they want to get rid of all our guns”. Garbage. Common sense gun laws do not mean getting rid of all guns. Apparently you cannot deal with reality of the discussion.

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Doggone, you’re right. We’ll never be able to stop all violence nor end all mass murders. But we can take steps to try to reduce the violence.

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Doggone/GA – We have a large government monopoly on education. For most folks the restriction of the market has afforded most very few options outside of the single-size fits all government option. Laws are passed that dictate gun restrictions for every school with parents having little choice and few options in the market to provide statistical evidence to support one side or other of the argument. We cannot compare thousands of schools with varying levels of gun presence to see which method is superior, nor does a parent have a choice to send their child to a school with alternative protection options in place. For most, the presence of numerous armed government employees in uniform is the only option they are allowed, along with metal detectors, drug sniffing dogs, mandatory Rittalin for the creative and non-conformist types, etc.

There are no guarantees in life. You have a person belief about what you would choose. Thanks to government’s monopoly on education, their taking of money from everyone to support their system of schools, etc. the majority will not be afforded the opportunity to explore their personal choices. Much of our societal conflict centers on the fact that we are denied choice and options because government has made all of the decisions for us and taken away our freedom and our liberty.

We have a second amendment to guarantee we will have the right to defend ourselves even from our government. We have a right to life and liberty, and our right to self defense is implicit in those rights.

Our schools have become shooting galleries for crazies for many reasons, one of which is that everyone is unarmed. Psychoactive drugs and a conformist system that destroys the individual are some others. Nobody will want to find out the truth about this shooting because it will implicate the system and those kind of issues cannot be raised in our controlled society.

Freedom is the highest aspiration of man. It cannot be obtained or secured by slaves or by victims. Guns are an equalizer as much as they are a curse. Guns delivered us to freedom from the oppressive government of King George. Far too much power is given to these inanimate objects by those who fear them. It is clearly people we should be afraid of, not guns.

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Aquagirl

Not just guns.

Ammo cases are already being emptied.

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“Doggone, you’re right. We’ll never be able to stop all violence nor end all mass murders. But we can take steps to try to reduce the violence”

Like what? What can we do to reduce the violence from people who have no criminal record, who present no obvious signs of mental disturbance UNTIL they commit a crime? If even a psychiatrists says we CANNOT identify them in advance, what can be done?

It’s not enough to say “we can do something” without concrete examples of WHAT we can do.

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Kam, you’re absolutely right.

I had a family member on the campus of VA Tech during that horror. Today a good friend lost a relative in Newtown.

And then there is this:

Hours after the terrible shooting in a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school, the Michigan House Republicans demanded that Governor Rick Snyder (R) sign a bill that would make it easier for people to receive a gun permit and open up ‘gun free zones,’ including schools

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It’s not enough to say “we can do something” without concrete examples of WHAT we can do.

Stop participating in the insane dry-humping gun culture would be a nice start. (I’m not saying you do this personally.) I’ve pointed out upthread that there’s a whole lot of irrational risk assessment going on. Actually there’s a whole lot of irrationality period.

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Doggone/GA – And the fact that governments have enormous firepower is a reason to allow ourselves to be disarmed? What is the point you are making. The first thing Hitler did when he came to power was to pass the gun control act of 1939 (the model of the US gun control act of 1968 by the way). That effectively disarmed all german citizens. You know the rest. Same with every dictator. Saddam Huissein allowed fully automatic weapons to be owned by the citizens of Iraq. The first thing the US did while promoting “freedom” in their country after destroying it was to seize all the guns.

Sorry, I’ll take my chances with whatever they legally let me have (which I think should be basically everything they have).

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Oh great, now we are back to Hitler and the “Red Dawn” brigade.

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“And the fact that governments have enormous firepower is a reason to allow ourselves to be disarmed?”

I can’t defend that statement. I never made it and I never thought of it. You have most definitely NOT been paying attention if you think I’m defending allowing ourselves to be disarmed. All I’m saying is that it’s a poor reason to defend being armed.

Basically, though, my attitude is that for law-abiding citizens it’s none of my business WHY they want to own guns.

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Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^An example of a Hitler filled rant.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Why have the bible? People break commandments.

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