Horror in a Connecticut elementary school
It’s hard to know what to say about the horror that took place this morning in a Connecticut elementary school. The combination of a madman, children and guns has left a reported 27 dead, including 20 children, most of them apparently executed in a single kindergarten classroom.
Again, 27 dead, and hundreds and hundreds directly connected to them have had their lives forever diminished. Even the millions of us who knew nobody in Newtown have been left chilled to the bone on this early winter day.
The 24-year-old gunman, dressed in paramilitary garb, is among those dead. His mother, a teacher at the school, is dead as well. Three weapons were reportedly found at the scene — a .223-caliber assault rifle and two semi-automatic handguns.
As always, the trauma inflicted on those families and that community is difficult to comprehend, and it is compounded by the brutal senselessness of the crime. Tragedies such as this always create questions — “How?” and “Why?” just the beginning of them — for which there can never be adequate answers.
I do know that anybody capable of such cold-blooded killings exists in a world that is far darker than any of us are able to imagine. I also suspect that crimes such as this are perpetrated in part to force the rest of us to glimpse — if just for a horrifying moment — that place so devoid of warmth and light.
Someone on Twitter just asked me: “WHY does this happen now when it didn’t 40, 50 years ago? WHAT is different?” I don’t know the answer to that one either. I suspect that we are witnessing a form of hysteria, as easily communicable as a computer virus from Aurora, Colo. to Clackamas, Ore. to Newtown, Conn., and once that virus is released it is impossible to predict where it might emerge next. Individuals who once might have stewed, alone, in their twisted anger and bitterness now recognize others like themselves on the evening news, and one violent incident creates a sort of permission for the next.
– Jay Bookman
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557 comments Add your comment
josef
December 14th, 2012
5:31 pm
getalife
The tragedy is that this has become so common that we actually have a “footing” we go onto when this happens.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
5:32 pm
And furthermore, Welcome: Who is making the argument for “unlimited gun freedoms”?
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
5:34 pm
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
5:04 pm
Guns in the hands of the general populace are unnecessary. How many armed citizens do we need patrolling the streets? We can shoot kids for playing music in a manner we’re not happy with or shoot them because they didn’t looked like they belonged.
We’ve got armed people patrolling our streets they’re called the police. Less guns less gun violence. Seems pretty simple.
_______________________________________
If a man with a carry permit comes home and finds someone assulting has wife, should he:
a) use his weapon to stop the assult
b) call the police
c) ask the man to stop assulting his wife
Soothsayer
December 14th, 2012
5:34 pm
I think this is about as good a Friday Night Music song as any.
not so independent thinker
December 14th, 2012
5:35 pm
“”"”"”"”"”"”"The NRA relentlessly tried to destroy the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) since it was created in 1972. They came close under Ronald Reagan in 1981, when the NRA pushed legislation to abolish the agency. Realizing that federal gun law enforcement would transfer to the then much esteemed Secret Service, the NRA scuttled the proposal. Ironically, when Reagan was shot that year, ATF agents were crawling over boxes in warehouses in order to follow the paper trail of purchases and gun ownership of the gun used to shoot Reagan and his Press Secretary Jim Brady. The NRA had successfully blocked computerization of records because that would amount to registration.
Newspaper headlines documented dogs obtaining federal firearms licenses to sell guns and individuals selling guns from the trunk of their cars. Big city mayors were outraged and in 1993, Governor Douglas Wilder, Virginia’s first black governor, instituted the One-Gun-A-Month Law.
The NRA’s relentless attacks on federal and state gun laws continued. Its’ support of the national database for criminal background checks was conditioned on prohibiting local ATF offices or other law enforcement agencies from accessing this information, further limiting ATF’s investigative powers. The NRA also required that all records pertaining to the background checks be immediately destroyed. The NRA’s Republican allies in congress also blocked legislation that would ban cop-killer bullets and assault weapons and close the gun show loopholes.
This past February, after almost 20 years, Virginia Republican Governor Bob McDonnell repealed the One-Gun-a-Month Law despite pleas from family members of shooting victims at Virginia Tech.”"”"”
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2012/06/former-atf-agent-blasts-gop-fast-furious-foolishness/
Leave it to “Governor Ultrasound” to protect those second amendment rights. Thank God for the NRA- protector of our individual right to own any weapon of choice.
hiram
December 14th, 2012
5:35 pm
The shooters in any incident like this should remain anonymous. Don’t plaster their pictures and names all over the media, 24 hours a day, for weeks. The fame is what drives these psychopaths.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
5:35 pm
Why not make super high-powered turbo boosters, rockets, etc. available on cars to those who can afford them and want that “freedom”?
I’m not aware of any speed restriction laws. If you have the money you can buy and own a street legal car that will go over 200 mph.
Look before I leap...
December 14th, 2012
5:40 pm
“…buy and own a street legal car that will go over 200 mph.”
One of them is a Bugatti Veyron
It is a two ton Viagra.
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
5:40 pm
If a man with a carry permit comes home and finds someone assulting has wife
The #1 danger to a wife is her husband. Sad but true. Give that husband a gun and he’s much more likely to shoot his wife than some stranger who crawled in the window to assault her.
There’s a lot of men who are totally irrational when guns are the subject. I wish they could admit that.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 14th, 2012
5:42 pm
godless heathen: ” If you have the money you can buy and own a street legal car that will go over 200 mph.”
Yeah but 200 mph is so boring. And really it’s such an arbitrary kind of restriction, and surely unconstitutional. Why not make it possible for people to go five and six hundred mph, or higher, for extra efficiency and exhilaration. People have a right to that you know.
appleseed
December 14th, 2012
5:43 pm
The shooter probably did not have automatic guns unless they were altered.Most people I know call semi automatic,automatics.Looks like conn,has pretty strict gun laws and ownership is low.I believe our school resources officer carry arms,hope that is a deterrent.Sad very sad.
Soothsayer
December 14th, 2012
5:43 pm
Music sheetz!
Wait a minute
December 14th, 2012
5:44 pm
40 or 50 years ago people didn’t carry AR-15s, etc. If you had a gun, it was probably a revolver, 6 shots. Not a rapid fire weapon with potentially more than one clip.
Those are needed for hunting, right? Anyone who does not favor eliminating those sorts of weapons helped contribute to the sheer level of killing today. The killer was clearly mentally ill, but he was a mentally ill person with access to weapons with a high rate of fire. That has to stop, now.
And for the dummies out there with the “it’s the person that committed the crime, not the guns”, he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons.
Victor Midtown
December 14th, 2012
5:49 pm
The gun issue will be argued out, if never settled. Assault rifles really have no civilian purpose. They should be all but impossible to obtain. As for handguns, the laws are already on the book. ENFORCE THEM. Do you think Plaxico Burris wants those two years back? Use a gun, carry a gun, during commission of a crime – you’re gone.
But let us not overlook the fact that uber-violent video games – which feature a human shooting gallery and faux blood galore – are a billion dollar business in tis country. Movies with an uncountable kill count come out every week. These things cannot be ignored. Hollywood and the Video game industry can’t keep getting a pass. The fact that most of these shooters are of the video game generation is a relevant point. As a society, we have to understand, bullets kill.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
5:50 pm
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
5:40 pm
If a man with a carry permit comes home and finds someone assulting has wife
The #1 danger to a wife is her husband. Sad but true. Give that husband a gun and he’s much more likely to shoot his wife than some stranger who crawled in the window to assault her.
There’s a lot of men who are totally irrational when guns are the subject. I wish they could admit that.
_____________________________________________
I get that Aquagirl, my point is sometimes you do not have the luxury of being able to wait for the police.
For the most part, the police do not prevent crime, they respond after the crime has been comitted.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
5:51 pm
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
5:34 pm
I see that Aqua Girl has already stated what studies have concluded concerning guns in the home but for the sake of giggles I’ll say: a).
So I’ll ask what does the same man do without the permit to carry and without the weapon? We can use the same solutions you posed to me giving you broad discretion on your choice of weapon for answer- a)
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
5:58 pm
Wait a minute
December 14th, 2012
5:44 pm
40 or 50 years ago people didn’t carry AR-15s, etc. If you had a gun, it was probably a revolver, 6 shots. Not a rapid fire weapon with potentially more than one clip. – You do know that the .45 cal semi-auto pistol has been around longet than 40 or 50 years?
Those are needed for hunting, right? Anyone who does not favor eliminating those sorts of weapons helped contribute to the sheer level of killing today. The killer was clearly mentally ill, but he was a mentally ill person with access to weapons with a high rate of fire. – rate of fire for a “6 shooter” and a Glock .40 cal still depends on squeezing the trigger for each shot.
That has to stop, now. And for the dummies out there with the “it’s the person that committed the crime, not the guns”, he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons. – How many people were killed in the OKC bombing? How about the Bath school bombing that killed 38? No guns used in those killings.
Living With Open Eyes
December 14th, 2012
5:58 pm
Lots of people cracking up nowadays. No amount of laws can stop crazy.
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
5:59 pm
I get that Aquagirl, my point is sometimes you do not have the luxury of being able to wait for the police.
Then why didn’t you say “a man is assaulted by an intruder?” Think about it. It’s not a coincidence that you went for Teh Man As Teh Protector scenario.
That’s not a bad thing by the way, I am not criticizing you for being like that. A man who runs while his wife is assaulted is a worthless sack of $#!^. I’m saying you should be aware that the mere mention of gun control sort of hits some men where it counts, so to speak. That prevents rational discussion.
PewtieNewtie
December 14th, 2012
6:01 pm
Gubnor Mike Huckabee let us know why it happened on Fox News…
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:01 pm
Why not make it possible for people to go five and six hundred mph, or higher, for extra efficiency and exhilaration. People have a right to that you know.
It’s not illegal, although the legal limit any where is 70. It is illegal to shoot people, yet some want to take away my right to own a gun that is capable of shooting people.
Folks are always eager to take away other people’s freedom to engage in an activity they don’t participate in, but when the scenario is reversed, i.e. when I propose taking away their freedom to own a car that will exceed the legal limit, they always try to find a way to say, “But, that’s different.”
Game, set, match.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:01 pm
Wait a minute
December 14th, 2012
5:44 pm
40 or 50 years ago people didn’t carry AR-15s, etc. If you had a gun, it was probably a revolver, 6 shots. Not a rapid fire weapon with potentially more than one clip.
Those are needed for hunting, right? Anyone who does not favor eliminating those sorts of weapons helped contribute to the sheer level of killing today. The killer was clearly mentally ill, but he was a mentally ill person with access to weapons with a high rate of fire. That has to stop, now.
And for the dummies out there with the “it’s the person that committed the crime, not the guns”, he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons.
______________________________________
Two other points:
1. “And for the dummies out there with the “it’s the person that committed the crime, not the guns”, he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons” – When someone shoots another with a gun, do they arrest the person or the gun.
2. Do you think calling people “dummies” will persuade them to listen to your arguements?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:03 pm
TBG:
Those are needed for hunting, right?
You need a car that will go 100 mph?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:03 pm
Sorry TBG, responded to the wrong person.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:07 pm
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
5:51 pm
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
5:34 pm
I see that Aqua Girl has already stated what studies have concluded concerning guns in the home but for the sake of giggles I’ll say: a).
So I’ll ask what does the same man do without the permit to carry and without the weapon? We can use the same solutions you posed to me giving you broad discretion on your choice of weapon for answer- a)
________________________________________________________
Well, first I guess the husband :
a) will hope the assailant does not have a gun, because if he does, his choice of weapon will not matter much.
My point to you was the police generally do not prevent crime, they respond to it.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:09 pm
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:10 pm
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
5:59 pm
I get that Aquagirl, my point is sometimes you do not have the luxury of being able to wait for the police.
Then why didn’t you say “a man is assaulted by an intruder?” Think about it. It’s not a coincidence that you went for Teh Man As Teh Protector scenario.
That’s not a bad thing by the way, I am not criticizing you for being like that. A man who runs while his wife is assaulted is a worthless sack of $#!^. I’m saying you should be aware that the mere mention of gun control sort of hits some men where it counts, so to speak. That prevents rational discussion.
_____________________________________
Point taken, understood, and agreed with.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:13 pm
Oh, and Aqua, for the record, I agree with what most gun control advocates propose. It is WAAAY too easy to get a gun in this country. I have a nephew in Trenton who just got out of prison after 5 years on drug and gun charges. 2 days after he got out, he had a gun.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:16 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:03 pm
TBG:
Those are needed for hunting, right?
You need a car that will go 100 mph?
_____________________________
Those weren’t my words, I was responding to Wait a minute’s comment at 5:44.
But, yeah, I do need a car that can go 100 mph.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
6:17 pm
“he never would have been able to kill 26 wtih other weapons”
Never is a long time. We’re not the only country mourning violence against children. Just yesterday there were 23 children attacked by a man with a knife in a Chinese elementary school. That could just as easily have been 23 children killed…and no gun involved.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 14th, 2012
6:17 pm
@Willie – “Guns in the hands of the general populace are unnecessary. How many armed citizens do we need patrolling the streets? We can shoot kids for playing music in a manner we’re not happy with or shoot them because they didn’t looked like they belonged.
We’ve got armed people patrolling our streets they’re called the police. Less guns less gun violence. Seems pretty simple.”
I received a call informing me that my security alarm was going off. I worked 20 minutes from home. I got there 15 minutes before the police did. A similar incident was recently experienced by a neighbor. Let’s say it was something more serious than a home burglary while no one was at home. If you have to wait 35 minutes for a police officer to show up, chances are you will be dead. I think I’ll retain my firearms, thank you very much.
Real Scootter
December 14th, 2012
6:19 pm
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:13 pm
Did your nephew buy it legally?
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
6:22 pm
I agree with what most gun control advocates propose. It is WAAAY too easy to get a gun in this country.
And yet, most men can’t admit that completely evident point due to the, um, shrivel factor. All they can think of is “what about MY man feelings?” It’s like they’re watching football or porn. The front part of their brains shuts down like a small town at 5pm.
Sorry about your nephew, that sucks.
Tom Middleton
December 14th, 2012
6:22 pm
Tom @3:50 pm “We need to stop feeding our children the fairy tale that they are watched over by a benevolent deity. When the shooting started in Newtown, CT, “God” was nowhere to be found.”
Tom, in the better-to-die-than-kill world of religion and worship of God, no one gets off without responsibility in tragic events like those of today.
I mean, what have you done to convince anyone that there are better ways to resolve conflict, even inner conflict, except complain about something you obviously feel you can’t control.
I would bet that you have no experience on the spiritual path to God to any appreciable degree and have no idea why God does or doesn’t do anything.
But if I told you that according to the Christianity of Jesus, your basic human nature is divine, but that you have to make some attempt to exercise it to realize what it’s all about, would you believe me?
But since everything he taught points to this, as in “Your body is a temple” and “The Kingdom of God is within you,” I will ask what you have done to improve the mental health of this terrible world in which you live.
I mean, what taxes are you willing to pay to provide those who find themselves in sudden mental dire straits with the help necessary for figuring alternatives to mass murder or even just suicide, any? And please, please tell me, what guns you’re willing to ban as an obvious common-sense place to begin.
And if I also told you that most of those who commit such acts are essentially godless in their basic beliefs, just like you, would you then maybe rethink your part in all of this, like maybe you have a part to play in the world around you and it’s not just complaining like someone without a single clue?
I would like to think that tragic events like today would cause more to turn toward God to do something about this world we’re in, not turn away in denial of God with absolutely no solutions at all.
Be careful, Tom, for you could be the next to find yourself in a psychological paranoid corner, with absolutely no where to turn at all!
td
December 14th, 2012
6:27 pm
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
4:06 pm
Just one gun could have halted this as it started. No action heroes required. Just someone who knows what they are doing.
Even police (who are trained for these situations and DO know what they’re doing) sometimes shoot innocent people.
And is the cost of one innocent life worth saving 18 others?
td
December 14th, 2012
6:29 pm
hiram
December 14th, 2012
5:35 pm
The shooters in any incident like this should remain anonymous. Don’t plaster their pictures and names all over the media, 24 hours a day, for weeks. The fame is what drives these psychopaths.
I will be damned if we do not actually agree on something.
Clyde Frog
December 14th, 2012
6:30 pm
Okay, so some of you argue that guns serve no legitimate purpose and therefore should be illegal for civilians to own.
Please, someone tell me what legitimate purpose alcohol serves? Do we need it to survive? Does it make us smarter or more productive?
Alcohol linked to 75,000 U.S. deaths a year
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/#.UMuzaXddWuk
You want to protect your grandchildren? Go make booze illegal, then talk to me about my guns. My guns serve a more legitimate purpose than anyone’s inebriating beverage. I’d like to see you defend your family in your home with a beer, or hunt for food with a bottle of malbec.
But you probably know that the government tried to make alcohol illegal once and it didn’t work. Heroin and crack and meth serve no legitimate purpose and they *are* illegal. Good thing no one dies from those drugs each year, right?
Making something illegal is not magic.
And the anti-”assault weapon” bandwagon is just silly. Absolutely not one poster advocating banning “assault weapons” has any clue about guns, doesn’t understand the difference between an automatic or semi-automatic weapons, and couldn’t even say why a supposed “assault weapon” is more scary or dangerous than a hunting rifle. These are just emotional, uneducated, and yes, unreasonable condemnations of guns that simply look scary.
And those of you that think these crazy guys are some kind of well-versed supersoldier or well-trained gun expert…if they had any sense they wouldn’t even try using 50-100 round magazines (they are NOT clips!) because those are junk that just about always jam.
Really…I read this blog and I see far more sense and reason from 2nd Amendment supporters and far more insults and emotional response from the anti-gun crowd. It’s really no wonder why we can’t have a “reasonable” discussion about gun control in this country….
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:35 pm
Real Scootter
December 14th, 2012
6:19 pm
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:13 pm
Did your nephew buy it legally?
___________________________
Nope, he’s a felon, which is my point.
Too easy to get guns in this country.
Clyde Frog
December 14th, 2012
6:36 pm
And those of you that think the police will protect you….
I’m from New Orleans, I had friends that stayed behind when Katrina hit. The police *disappeared*. One female friend of mine told me how she slept during the day and hid in a closet with a machete during the night listening to the bands of roving criminals kicking in doors of homes around her neighborhood, people screaming, glass breaking…there were no police to protect her. Really though, I heard lots of similar accounts.
Don’t think it can’t happen again. Our society is not nearly as stable as most like to believe it is.
indigo
December 14th, 2012
6:36 pm
goodlees – 5:18
YOU are dodging the question.
That crazy fool did not drive a car into the school and kill all those people. He used a gun. Comparing cars and guns is apples and oranges.
And, yes, I’v been driving since I was 14 and have always given up my freedom to drive as fast as possible. As for limiting the cars to 25 mph, that would cripple our transportation. However, if you’re really serious, which I doubt, we could get automakers to go to NASCAR and use some of their technology to make cars very safe at 60.
Would you be willing to pay extra for safer cars, for the children?
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
6:37 pm
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
6:22 pm
I agree with what most gun control advocates propose. It is WAAAY too easy to get a gun in this country.
And yet, most men can’t admit that completely evident point due to the, um, shrivel factor. All they can think of is “what about MY man feelings?” It’s like they’re watching football or porn. The front part of their brains shuts down like a small town at 5pm.
______________________________
I’ve evolved.
I was able to talk my nephew into getting rid of the gun.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
6:39 pm
“Too easy to get guns in this country.”
Yeah, and it was way too easy to get drugs too. But the war on drugs took care of THAT problem, didn’t it? /snarc
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
6:46 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 14th, 2012
6:17 pm
So you’ll run home and risk being shot in the head for some property that you pay an insurance company to cover? You make my point. Guns are like beer goggles everything looks possible when you’re under the influence of invincibility.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:54 pm
Indigo: Deflection is your game, but let’s put this simply.
Would you, indigo, give up your freedom that allows you to purchase a car that will exceed the speed limit? A machine that is capable of being used illegally? You have no need for such a machine. Why should you be allowed to own it?
Whether or not you exceed the speed limit is irrelevant. I don’t shoot kids with my guns.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
6:54 pm
How can we stop someone from taking their mother’s legal handguns and doing something this horrible? How can someone be this mentally ill?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:58 pm
So you’ll run home and risk being shot in the head for some property that you pay an insurance company to cover?
In a minute I would.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:03 pm
I agree assault weapon laws should be extremely strict. However, that has nothing to do with today. These were legally owned handguns. What gun control law could prevent this?
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:03 pm
“Okay, so some of you argue that guns serve no legitimate purpose and therefore should be illegal for civilians to own.”
NO, nobody’s arguing that. I think the authors of the 2nd amendment took care of that a long time ago. But even that revered document doesn’t guarantee that anyone should have access to and the right to own semi-automatic weapons designed for military use. Those type of weapons should not be available for anyone of age to buy. There’s no need for that for you protection, there’s no need for that for hunting or sport, there’s no need for that except to cause this sort of horror. How many of these events do we need to see unfold before us to wake us up? How many have to die before we realize that the 2nd amendment isn’t in jeopardy, innocent people are?
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:07 pm
There were no assault weapons used today.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:08 pm
“How can we stop someone from taking their mother’s legal handguns and doing something this horrible?”
Seems one of them might have been a bushmaster. Mom’s packing military weaponry? This was more than just a couple of purse pistols mom had tucked away in the nightstand. Apparently he blew a window out at the front of the building to gain access. He didn’t do that with some little pea-shooter, I don’t think. It seems this young man was very disturbed, and we’ll probably never know completely why. And it doesn’t sound like he just had a basic pistol or two in his possession when he killed his mother and then went to her school to continue his rampage.
indigo
December 14th, 2012
7:09 pm
godless – 6:54
For many years I owned VW beetles. The top speed is around 70 for these vehicles. So, yes, I would give up my freedom to buy a car that would go over 70. That, in fact is a good idea as many lives would be saved.
Now, answer my question. Would you pay extra for cars with NASCAR technology that would allow almost certain survival even at 60 or 70 mph crashes, for the children?
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:09 pm
“There’s no need for that ”
And if the owner abides by the laws, there’s NO REASON for you to deny him the ownership of them. It doesn’t matter if there’s no need. There’s no need to collect knives, or cars, or anything…but people do it and as long as they are law abiding it’s no one else’s business WHY the own what they own.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:09 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
6:58 pm
I had a car stolen one time. I got another one. Go figure.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:10 pm
I haven’t seen a report about an assault weapon. CNN just said the guns used were owned by his mother. You’re right, I don’t know why a teacher would own an assault rifle?
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:11 pm
“There were no assault weapons used today.”
Mike, do you know for sure what was used? I haven’t heard that officially yet from any credible source.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:12 pm
Do you gun people sit at your dinner table with your gun on your hip?
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:15 pm
Yeah, I just read more about it, it was an assault rifle, I don’t see a place for these weapons in the public.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:16 pm
“but people do it and as long as they are law abiding it’s no one else’s business WHY the own what they own.”
Sorry, but NO. I support anyone’s right to defend himself and hunt or participate in sport. But there’s no reason for so many to have access to semi-automatic or automatic weapons in the majority of instances. I fully support the right to own guns and have a few in my own home for hunting. But that freedom to have them doesn’t cover any gun that’s out there, and you won’t convince me otherwise.
TM
December 14th, 2012
7:16 pm
Every one===THE “ASSAULT” RIFLE WAS IN THE CAR—he did not use it in the school. So just give it up on that argument,
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:16 pm
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:10 pm
I haven’t seen a report about an assault weapon. CNN just said the guns used were owned by his mother. You’re right, I don’t know why a teacher would own an assault rifle?
If you believe gun ownership is a right why would it be a surprise that a teacher might own an assault rifle? Would they be restricted to .22 caliber revolvers?
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:18 pm
Willie Lynch-
Are you able to communicate without being a sarcastic jerk?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
7:18 pm
Three weapons were recovered from the school: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and a Glock and a Sig Sauer found with Lanza’s body, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:18 pm
Willie Lynch-
I would say a low percentage of elementary school teachers own assualt weapons, would you disagree?
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:19 pm
“I don’t see a place for these weapons in the public”
I agree. I think, without any credible proof or data but common sense, that the perpretrators of these crimes are emboldened by the firepower. It’s as if the gun becomes an extension of their desire to hurt someone else and/or themselves. You don’t hear often about this kind of planned attack using a pea shooter. I wonder if the fact that they can get such powerful guns makes them feel more powerful and thus more likely to think they can do such horrible things.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:19 pm
” But there’s no reason ”
Just because you see no reason is NO REASON why they shouldn’t be allowed to own them. I haven’t said it should be EASY to own them, but there’s NO REASON it should be impossible.
I once got threatened with being turned in to animals control because there was NO REASON I should own 10 dogs.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:20 pm
Indigo. I am glad that you will give up your freedom. Your position is very rare and your consistency is appreciated. Most gun grabbers only want to take others’ rights without sacrificing any of their own. A politician that ran for office advocating governing the speed of American’s automobiles (for the children) would not get very far.
Now, answer my question. Would you pay extra for cars with NASCAR technology that would allow almost certain survival even at 60 or 70 mph crashes, for the children?
No. I don’t think the cost benefit analysis would work out. We pay for lots of safety gadgets in our modern cars that have minimal safety benefits. If the government wanted to save lives, it would limit the speed they are capable of.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:22 pm
Do you gun people sit at your dinner table with your gun on your hip?
If I want to, I do. It’s called freedom. Look into it.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:22 pm
It’s just too easy to kill so many people with assault weapons. Laws need to be much tighter, not good when a mentally ill person can get their hands on assault weapons.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:23 pm
“If you believe gun ownership is a right why would it be a surprise that a teacher might own an assault rifle?”
I’ve been teaching over twenty years, half of that in a rural setting popular for hunters. NONE of my colleagues own assault rifles. That would be stupid to have for hunting, unless you like pulverizing deer.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:26 pm
Assault weapons aren’t for protection. When’s the last time you heard of someone protecting themselves with an assault rifle? Handguns and shotguns are for home protection.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:26 pm
“I haven’t said it should be EASY to own them, but there’s NO REASON it should be impossible.”
Yeah, there is. There were 20 of those reasons sitting in that classroom today. I have two kids, and they’re powerful enough reason for me to say NOBODY needs to own that kind of assault weapon designed for military use in WAR…period.
BADA BING (imagine an umlaut above the i, I'm trying to class this place up a little)
December 14th, 2012
7:27 pm
Parents, all the Big Box stores have a fresh supply of “Doom”, “World of Warfare”, and “Grand Theft Auto” on the shelves. Don’t let your teen miss out. Merry Chris—— excuse me, don’t want to offend, Happy Holidays!
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:29 pm
” Laws need to be much tighter, not good when a mentally ill person can get their hands on assault weapons.”
I heard an interview with a psychiatrist this afternoon. Basically, he said there’s no way to identify people who do these horrors in advance of the act. That as a rule they tend to be people that externalize that bad things that happen to them, that it’s always someone else fault…not theirs and they take it out on others.
The interviewer asked about signs that might indicate such a person, and he said that while it’s apparent what the signs are AFTER the horror…the problem is that millions of people have those same signs, but never get to the point where they attack others.
He also said there’s pretty much nothing we can do to prevent such things from happening.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:29 pm
NONE of my colleagues own assault rifles. That would be stupid to have for hunting, unless you like pulverizing deer.
How many of your colleagues owned cars that would go over 100 mph? That would be stupid for driving on highways where the legal limit is 70 mph or less, unless you like killing and pulverizing kids on the highway.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:29 pm
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:18 pm
Respectfully, I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t expect the Catholic church of being complicit in pedophilia but who knew? Point is I believe anyone is capable of anything at any given time. There’s not much that surprises me or makes me say “I would never have thought”.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:31 pm
“There were 20 of those reasons sitting in that classroom today”
and the man who did that was not a law abiding owner. Do you think it would be the right thing to do to severely restrict ownership of cars because they have been used to kill people deliberately?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:31 pm
To paraphrase Edna St Vincent Millay: It’s not freedom’s going that pains my days, but that it went in such little ways.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:32 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:22 pm
One could argue that you’re not very free if you have to sit around your own home tethered to a gun.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 14th, 2012
7:32 pm
Willie, if you can’t distinguish the difference between how you would respond to a home invasion than a burglary taking place while you were away from home, then your beyond most reasonable means of help. What part of the police taking 35 minutes to respond were you having trouble with? If someone came into your house while you were there, I don’t think asking them to refrain from violence against me or my family, pending the not-so-immediate arrival of the police, would do me much good, do you? Life insurance doesn’t bring back the dead (sorry to alarm your misguided train of thought.)
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:34 pm
Dog: and the man who did that was not a law abiding owner. Do you think it would be the right thing to do to severely restrict ownership of cars because they have been used to kill people deliberately?
Of course not. They are only interested in restricting the rights of people that engage in activities they don’t like.
Woodstock Mike
December 14th, 2012
7:34 pm
I have an 8 yr old, couldn’t possibly imagine sending him to school and something like this taking place. I feel terrible for these parents. Get assault weapons out of the public or explain to me why we need them?
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:35 pm
Doggone: nobody’s driving cars through school classrooms…. stop with the assinine comparison. You don’t arm yourself with three of them, carrying two in your pockets so you can commit a crime.
Ask the parents whose kids died today… hell, ask most parents whose kids were in school today. I think a large percentage of them would agree that semi-automatic weapons shouldn’t be so easy to own. Tell you what, let’s put it to a vote. Then the majority can decide.
td
December 14th, 2012
7:36 pm
indigo
December 14th, 2012
6:36 pm
goodlees – 5:18
YOU are dodging the question.
That crazy fool did not drive a car into the school and kill all those people. He used a gun. Comparing cars and guns is apples and oranges.
And, yes, I’v been driving since I was 14 and have always given up my freedom to drive as fast as possible. As for limiting the cars to 25 mph, that would cripple our transportation. However, if you’re really serious, which I doubt, we could get automakers to go to NASCAR and use some of their technology to make cars very safe at 60.
Would you be willing to pay extra for safer cars, for the children?
So the only answer in your mind is to take all guns away from all people? Yes, the guy was crazy so maybe the real answer is to put to death all crazy people before they have a chance to kill other people?
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:36 pm
Get assault weapons out of the public or explain to me why we need them?”
so you think that limiting guns that WEREN’T USED in this assault would have stopped it? Interesting “reasoning”
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:36 pm
willie:
One could argue that you’re not very free if you have to sit around your own home tethered to a gun.
Freedom means I can live my life as I choose. If sitting around the house tethered to a gun is the way I choose to live my life, it should not be of concern to you.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:37 pm
“That crazy fool did not drive a car into the school and kill all those people. He used a gun. Comparing cars and guns is apples and oranges”
No, it isn’t. Guns and cars are tools, and nothing else. They can be used for fun, or to kill. It’s not the tool that is at fault…it’s the user.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:38 pm
Sorry doggone, got you and godless heathen confused there for a sec about the car analogy.
“He also said there’s pretty much nothing we can do to prevent such things from happening.”
Absolutely true- but I’d feel a little better if the would-be shooters were packing a little less firepower. That’s one reason I don’t think semi-automatic weapons should be sitting in grandma’s china cabinet or in the nightstand drawer.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:40 pm
td: So the only answer in your mind is to take all guns away from all people?
indigo didn’t say that. She(?) is in favor of restricting the rights of others and herself to make the world completely “safe”, but she didn’t say take away all guns.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:41 pm
“Absolutely true- but I’d feel a little better if the would-be shooters were packing a little less firepower”
And everyone who says something like that CANNOT answer the question of how to stop them from getting illegal guns. Restricting the ability of law abiding owner is NOT going to stop the black market sale of such guns, and someone determined to have one WILL get one.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:41 pm
“It’s not the tool that is at fault…it’s the user”
Yeah, the old “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” line. Absolutely true, but that still doesn’t justify a person having the ability to fire multiple rounds per second and pull of the trigger. That still doesn’t justify the average citizen owning a weapon designed for military use where a spray of gunfire may be needed to advance a military position or stop an advancing enemy. There’s simply not a use for that kind of weapon otherwise, and no justification of it will suffice.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:43 pm
Maybe I misread your statement. I thought you said you worked 20 mins from home and you arrived 15 mins before the police. My response was to that point, of you rushing to protect property. That’s why I pay insurance and why my taxes go to fund the police force. In the event of a home invasion, which I hope neither of us will ever have to experience, most of them are by nature surprise events which rarely if ever end up with the homeowner coming out on top with or without a gun in the home.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 14th, 2012
7:43 pm
I was not aware that a 9 mm pistol was an assault weapon.
td
December 14th, 2012
7:45 pm
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:41 pm
Show me the report that says the 223 weapon was 1: even used and 2: was fully automatic?
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
7:46 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:36 pm
Duly noted.
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:46 pm
“And everyone who says something like that CANNOT answer the question of how to stop them from getting illegal guns. Restricting the ability of law abiding owner is NOT going to stop the black market sale of such guns, and someone determined to have one WILL get one”
I’m not saying there is a way to do it, just thinking there should be. It’s like pandora’s box- now that there are so many in civilian use, it will be hard to stop. But we have to try- and making them illegal will help keep a few out of circulation. It’s a complicated issue to solve, but I think the legal sale of them needs to stops now so that we can begin to figure out how to get some of the rest back out of circulation. I don’t think some of those who have used them in this manner would have had the money, time, or connections to buy them on the black market.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
7:46 pm
There’s simply not a use for that kind of weapon otherwise, and no justification of it will suffice.
How about, “It’s fun to shoot and own.”
What is your justification for owning a car that will go 100+ mph?
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:48 pm
“Absolutely true, but that still doesn’t justify a person having the ability to fire multiple rounds per second and pull of the trigger. ”
And because a disturbed person uses a gun to kill randomly is no reason to make it impossible for law abiding gun enthusiasts to own one
Nunna Yobinnes
December 14th, 2012
7:48 pm
Well at least I’d have a fighting chance with a gun. Without one, not much chance of coming out alive or not experiencing severe trauma.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2012
7:49 pm
“I’m not saying there is a way to do it, just thinking there should be”
That’s the “somebody should do something” defense. Well, if YOU can’t think of anything…what makes you think anyone else can?
RF
December 14th, 2012
7:50 pm
td: he had a sig sauer in his possession at death. Sig is known for its semi-automatic weaponry. In fact their website reads:
“In the U. S., the SIG success story began in 1985, when the newly formed SIG SAUER began to distribute the P220 semi-automatic. Anyone familiar with firearms knew instantly that this was the pistol to reckon with. This SIG SAUER pistol led the semi-auto revolution, and the qualities that made that happen are still here – and then some – in the current SIG Classic line of pistols.”
http://www.sigsauer.com/Catalog/pistols.aspx
and that’s just the pistols. Was it a sig pistol or rifle? The rifles are even more potent.