Horror in a Connecticut elementary school
It’s hard to know what to say about the horror that took place this morning in a Connecticut elementary school. The combination of a madman, children and guns has left a reported 27 dead, including 20 children, most of them apparently executed in a single kindergarten classroom.
Again, 27 dead, and hundreds and hundreds directly connected to them have had their lives forever diminished. Even the millions of us who knew nobody in Newtown have been left chilled to the bone on this early winter day.
The 24-year-old gunman, dressed in paramilitary garb, is among those dead. His mother, a teacher at the school, is dead as well. Three weapons were reportedly found at the scene — a .223-caliber assault rifle and two semi-automatic handguns.
As always, the trauma inflicted on those families and that community is difficult to comprehend, and it is compounded by the brutal senselessness of the crime. Tragedies such as this always create questions — “How?” and “Why?” just the beginning of them — for which there can never be adequate answers.
I do know that anybody capable of such cold-blooded killings exists in a world that is far darker than any of us are able to imagine. I also suspect that crimes such as this are perpetrated in part to force the rest of us to glimpse — if just for a horrifying moment — that place so devoid of warmth and light.
Someone on Twitter just asked me: “WHY does this happen now when it didn’t 40, 50 years ago? WHAT is different?” I don’t know the answer to that one either. I suspect that we are witnessing a form of hysteria, as easily communicable as a computer virus from Aurora, Colo. to Clackamas, Ore. to Newtown, Conn., and once that virus is released it is impossible to predict where it might emerge next. Individuals who once might have stewed, alone, in their twisted anger and bitterness now recognize others like themselves on the evening news, and one violent incident creates a sort of permission for the next.
– Jay Bookman
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557 comments Add your comment
In the middle
December 14th, 2012
4:01 pm
I know, let’s make murder illegal, Yah, that’s the ticket. Once something is made illegal than it will never ever happen again. Why didn’t we think of this sooner. Get real people. This is a tragic event. The families of the victim are going through unimaginable pain. Continuing to make this an issue about guns is quite frankly, stupid…
ClydeFr0g
December 14th, 2012
4:01 pm
Check this out;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
There are LOTS of countries on this list ahead of the US with much tougher gun laws.
The ONLY thing laws against owning or carrying guns do is prevent LAW-ABIDING citizens from having them. Those among us that disregard laws will STILL have guns. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle folks.
I’d love to live in a world where there was no crime, no violence, no killing, no pain, no suffering…but this is not that world.
The Second Amendment is just as relevant today as is the First Amendment. The framers of the Constitution were not morons.
I don’t know how many of you follow current events or history but the Persian people tried to overthrow the terrible and evil regime of Iran and were brutally repressed…because they had no arms to defend themselves from their government.
Germany in the 1930s was a very modern, industrial, civilized, educated culture…I’m sure their people didn’t expect that their government was capable of orchestrating genocide but it happened.
I’m sure our people never thought our government could assassinate US citizens with Predator drones without due process of law, but it happened. I never dreamed that our government could indefinitely detain US citizens without trial but thanks to the NDAA they can now if they call you a “terrorist”. Sorry, but I’ll be keeping my AR lubed and loaded and if you don’t like it you are welcome to move to a country that is nice and safe from all of us uneducated murderous rabid criminal redneck right-wing conservative Republican “gun nuts”.
This is a tragedy, no question about it. But put it into perspective…you have a better chance of getting hit by lightening than being killed in a mass shooting.
reasonable
December 14th, 2012
4:01 pm
Actually for the individual who noted that gun checks are criminal only, that’s not totally true. There is a provision to check for mental status as part of the check. The problem is that it only pertains to public records of committal type hearings brought againsts individuals by relatives etc: these are usually heard in probate courts and those records are supposed to be made available. The problem with this is twofold. First, compliance with provision of these records is scattered at best. Second, the vase majority of such determinations of mental instability are handled outside of the courts in a private setting and are subject to very strict confidentiality laws that restrict sharing of such data. So, in practice, its mainly criminal records that are checked but there is provision to check mental status. its just not very effective. Further, in the present case we do not know if the individual in this case had received any treatment for mental illness prior to his rampage.
Mr. Holmes
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
Common Sense: No, my strategy is to talk about and enact sensible gun legislation–starting with renewing the assault weapon ban.
bman.
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
josef@3:56 pm
i agree.
Common Sense
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
.YOU that person?
Who decides who is that person?
You are quite naive when it comes to guns, granny.
I suggest you look up one of the many USPSA matches that are held around the Atlanta area. You will find that every shooter there would be able to successfully defend themselves.
No, a SWAT officer in every class is not required.
Your gun free zones have failed. And you refuse to ask why they are not working.
Want a trained SWAT officer in every classroom?
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
rightwingnutjob:
And before you start with the BS about knives etc, see the crazy guy in China that attacked 20 kids with a knife. Horrific. No deaths.
Regnad Kcin
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
I guess nuclear disarmament is useless – nuclear bombs don’t wipe out cities, governments wipe out cities. No reason to even try. Nothing can be done.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
if there were some college student at Va Tech with a gun in his backpack, maybe he could have done something before that nutjob killed 30+ people.
Same deal here. A hypothetical teacher who had a gun could have saved lives when he/she heard gunshots.
No.
That kind of action requires extensive training that your mythical college student or teacher doesn’t have.
Again — Reagan and Brady were shot while in the protection of one of the best armed and best trained security details on this planet.
weetamoe
December 14th, 2012
4:04 pm
Obama’s kids have secret service protection. Valerie Jarrett has secret service protection. Eric Holder enforces only those laws that don’t affect his homeys. People have a right (not and never ever granted by government) to protect themselves and their loved ones.
Granny Godzilla
December 14th, 2012
4:04 pm
What does the NRA say?
Not a damned thing.
http://www.nra.org/home.aspx
JamVet
December 14th, 2012
4:05 pm
0311’s post at 3;50 is fatalistic and tragic in and of itself.
For every “worsening of our culture” that he can list, I can list one or more things that demonstrate that our culture has improved and is better than it was in 1950.
Monstrous evil has been with us from the very beginning of recorded history and it will apparently never not be part of the human condition…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:05 pm
josef @ 3:56
THANK YOU ………….. your response was just one of the probably 100 reasons I could list.
Another would be that this animal’s photo will be shown ad nauseum and other sicko’s will think “that could be me on television. I had better start planning” !
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:06 pm
“That kind of action requires extensive training that your mythical college student or teacher doesn’t have.”
How much extensive training did the murderers at Va Tech, Columbine and Aurora have?
I didn’t realize Dylan Klebold was an ex-Navy Seal.
Regnad Kcin
December 14th, 2012
4:06 pm
I once read a post from weetamoe that made sense. Remember that? That was great!
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
4:06 pm
Just one gun could have halted this as it started. No action heroes required. Just someone who knows what they are doing.
Even police (who are trained for these situations and DO know what they’re doing) sometimes shoot innocent people. Unless your daily occupation involves firefights your opinion on how they should be handled is crap gathered from TeeVee and BS’ing about how cool it would be to blast that scumbag to hell.
Military training does not prepare anyone for shootouts in schools. If you want to worship Marines go buy some kneepads and head to Lejeune.
Granny Godzilla
December 14th, 2012
4:06 pm
weetamoe
you are more full of it today than usual
JamVet
December 14th, 2012
4:07 pm
reasonable, thank you for sharing your expertise in these matters.
As you may imagine, the amount of disinformation posited here as factual data is not insignificant…
not so independent thinker
December 14th, 2012
4:08 pm
“”"”"”"”"”"Ownership of most types of firearm in the UK requires either a Shotgun Certificate (SGC) or a Firearms Certificate (FAC). Both of these are issued by local police after the applicant has met the required criteria. For a Shotgun Certificate the applicant need demonstrate that they can securely store the firearms (usually a gun safe bolted to a solid wall), have no criminal convictions, no history of any medical condition or disability including alcohol and drug related conditions, no history of treatment for depression or any other kind of mental or nervous disorder, or epilepsy. Once a SGC is granted the person is free to purchase single shot, multi-barrelled and repeating shotguns of lever action, pump action or semi-automatic with non detachable magazine that hold no more than 2 rounds of ammunition, plus one in the breech. There is no restriction on the number of shotguns that can be held on a SGC nor are there any restrictions on the amount of ammunition one can possess. The shotguns can be used wherever one has permission.
The criteria required for the grant of a Firearms certificate is far more stringent. Alongside safe storage requirements and checks on previous convictions and medical records, the applicant must also demonstrated a Good reason for each firearm they wish to hold (Good reason may include hunting, pest control, collecting or target shooting). Police may restrict the type and amount of ammunition held, and where and how the firearms are used. Historically, most certificates approved for handguns listed “self-defence” as a reason. Since 1968 in mainland Britain, self-defence is not considered an acceptable “good reason” for firearm ownership (however use of a licensed firearm in self-defence is often justified provided that the victim can prove they used necessary and reasonable force).”"”"”"”"”"From Wikipedia
Thank god for the Declaration of Independence that got us free of insane fascist gun control laws like England’s. Can you imagine letting some fascist pig police officer decide if you are sane enough to own a gun? Kinda like that well regulated militia nonsense in the second amendment that the NRA got thrown out.
Soothsayer
December 14th, 2012
4:08 pm
Now if all those teachers were packing heat and all those students were packing heat and all those principals and support staff were packing heat, nothing like this could have ever happened.
(Actual post I read on Facebook today.)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:08 pm
1) “For every “worsening of our culture” that he can list, I can list one or more things that demonstrate that our culture has improved and is better than it was in 1950.”
And I say “collectively” it has worsened when it comes to our general morality.
2) “Monstrous evil has been with us from the very beginning of recorded history and it will apparently never not be part of the human condition…”
That is true but when you fail to keep in place the mechanisms to keep it chained you suffer the consequences.
3) And with that we will agree where we can and disagree where we must.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
4:08 pm
How much extensive training did the murderers at Va Tech, Columbine and Aurora have?
I didn’t realize Dylan Klebold was an ex-Navy Seal.
False equivalence.
Redcoat
December 14th, 2012
4:09 pm
Best not to say anything right now………only pray for understanding and for the all those families.
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:09 pm
@bonafidechicken: 1 guy tries to use a shoe bomb=Everyone at airport takes their shoes off.31 school shootings since Columbine=no changes
Sad Truth.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
4:09 pm
NTSB data for 2003 (latest I could easily find) 2,136 children killed in auto accidents.
1/3 of all traffic fatalities are attributed to excess speed, so that’s 712 children killed by excessive speed in one year.
How many of you would agree to limiting your automobiles to a maximum speed of 25 mph, with a governor, not laws against speeding, in order to save the lives of 712 children a year. After all no one needs to go any faster in a car than 25 mph.
Or we spend our efforts towards enforcing the existing speed limits, educating drivers, and getting the drunks and crazies out from behind the wheel and you could continue to enjoy the FREEDOM to going 70 mph down I-75.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:10 pm
Class of ‘98 @ 4:06
THANK YOU !
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:10 pm
And the repeated myth that we can not “prevent” all mass murders so let’s not even try to pass common sense laws that could reduce these senseless acts.
Perhaps some of you need to review a partial list of the frequency: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/mass-shootings-us/nTW2N
Next time your kids are in school or family members at the mall, think about the possibility and then tell us about how nothing can be done. How many more must die from this senselessness?
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:10 pm
Why is it false equivalence? Why does it take special training for a Good Samaritan hero to shoot someone in the head, while 16-year old high school students are apparently pretty good at it?
vedette
December 14th, 2012
4:11 pm
Everybody thinks they’re gonna be Clint Eastwood in a shootout. Fact of the matter is damned few people can safely handle weaponry in a close-quarter combat situation. More guns in public spaces will mean more collateral damage (don’t you love that term).
But if we’re going to allow people to carry firearms in public, I say they need to go through 40-60 hours of close-quarter combat training every year. No exceptions.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 14th, 2012
4:11 pm
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
rightwingnutjob:
And before you start with the BS about knives etc, see the crazy guy in China that attacked 20 kids with a knife. Horrific. No deaths
———————————————————————————————————————-
Because there were no death’s make it Ok to ban my rights to protect myself by what ever means are necessary ?
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
4:11 pm
yuzeyurbrane
December 14th, 2012
3:54 pm
I am sick and tired of hearing gun fanatics rant that guns don’t kill people, that people kill people.
________________________________
If I get stabbed by a mugger, will they arrest the knife or the PERSON.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:11 pm
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me :
:How many of you would agree to limiting your automobiles to a maximum speed of 25 mph, with a governor, not laws against speeding, in order to save the lives of 712 children a year. After all no one needs to go any faster in a car than 25 mph.”
I asked almost that same question the other day but I have it 45 mph.
NO ONE responded.
Some people like to pick their category and ignore others.
Keniesha
December 14th, 2012
4:12 pm
Many of the schools around metro ATL have an armed SRO (school resource officer) on the campus. Maybe that’s one way to stop this kind of incident, or to at least make it more challenging for the shooter – have someone on the premises who can shoot back.
Brosephus™
December 14th, 2012
4:13 pm
If a scumbag like this walks into a restaurant, mall, on the street or in my house to harm my children I want a fighting chance to kill him before he kills us.
If you don’t constantly train for active shooter situations, you’re not gonna automatically respond just because of the fact that you possess a gun. If you become a victim while trying to be a hero, you may have just given the shooter another gun to use. Just something to think about.
————————-
If someone breaks into your house, would you rather have a shotgun or a baseball bat?
If that intruder gets the drop on you, it doesn’t matter what you have in your house.
“WHY does this happen now when it didn’t 40, 50 years ago? WHAT is different?”
The “WHAT” is that our “culture” has changed for the worse and there are a hundred reasons for that …………. none of them good. I can articulate many of them but it would do no good here now.
How do you explain Charles Whitman? Bonnie and Clyde?
This country was founded by violence, lives on violence, and will likely perish due to violence. All else inbetween is almost immaterial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States
————————-
It has to do with this… if there were some college student at Va Tech with a gun in his backpack, maybe he could have done something before that nutjob killed 30+ people.
That’s a mighty big maybe. There are trained military and law enforcement personnel who momentarily freeze up when shots go off. If trained personnel can react that way, why would one believe that an untrained person will go all Jason Bourne at the first shot? Most times, the best option is to get the hell away from the shots/shooter as fast as possible.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:14 pm
“But if we’re going to allow people to carry firearms in public, I say they need to go through 40-60 hours of close-quarter combat training every year. No exceptions.”
“Shall not be INFRINGED”.
You’ll have to work on the above first.
bman.
December 14th, 2012
4:14 pm
“How many of you would agree to limiting your automobiles to a maximum speed of 25 mph”
Most of the people here are the ones who already drive 25mph.
indigo
December 14th, 2012
4:15 pm
With all the political back and forth talk these days, it’s hard to know which Party truly cares for the people and which one truly cares only for Big Business profits.
Well, this terrible tragedy will give us all the opportunity to find out.
Just follow the comming news broadcasts and see which Party calls for a ban on assualt rifles and much stronger gun laws and see which one, ostensibly to protect our “right to keep and bear arms”, blocks any ban on assault rifles and any stricter enforcement of gun laws.
not so independent thinker
December 14th, 2012
4:15 pm
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”It is forbidden in Israel to own any kind of firearm, including air pistols and rifles, without a firearms license. Israel Defense Forces officers honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer, reservists honorably discharged with the rank of regimental commander, ex-special forces enlisted men, retired police officers with the rank of sergeant, retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander, licensed public transportation drivers transporting a minimum of five people, and full-time dealers of jewellery or large sums of cash or valuables, Civil Guard volunteers, and residents of militarily strategic buffer zones considered essential to state security are eligible for licenses allowing them to possess one handgun. Reservists honorably discharged with the rank of regimental commander are also eligible for licences allowing them to possess one rifle. Licensed hunters may possess one shotgun, and licensed animal-control officers are allowed to possess two rifles. Civil Guard snipers may possess one rifle. To legally own a gun as a souvenir, prize, inheritance, or award of appreciation from the military, an individual must first present proper documentation that they are about to receive it. Permits for gun collectors are extremely rare, and typically only given to ex-high-ranking officers. To obtain a gun license, an applicant must be a resident of Israel for at least three consecutive years, have no criminal record, be in good health, have no history of mental illness, pass a weapons-training course, and be over a certain age (20 for women who completed military service or civil service equivalent, 21 for men who completed military service or civil service equivalent, 27 for those who did not complete military service or civil service equivalent, 45 for residents of East Jerusalem). Gun licenses must be renewed every three years. Firearms permits are given only for personal use, not for business in the firearms sale. Permit holders for self-defense purposes may own only one handgun, and may purchase a maximum of fifty rounds a year, except for those shot at firing ranges.
Residents of Israeli settlements in the West Bank are issued assault rifles and ammunition by the army, and are given civil defense training. However, the rifles and munitions are property of the army, and may be confiscated at any time.”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
Somebody fed the Israelis that “well regulated militia garbage” our founders threw into the second amendment for laughs and giggles. They need to stop trying to imitate our founders preamble now that the NRA had it trashed. Don’t you think every Israeli would be entitled to an RPG and some hand grenades to protect themselves and their family from those Arab terrorists.?????????? How about some chemical weapons?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:15 pm
“How do you explain Charles Whitman? Bonnie and Clyde?”
Volume.
Mr. Holmes
December 14th, 2012
4:15 pm
In fact, throwing up your hands and saying “F it, let’s just give everyone a gun” sounds a heckuva lot more like “surrendering” than trying to reduce the number of guns out there.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
4:16 pm
Obama’s kids have secret service protection.
So did Reagan and Brady.
How did that work out for them against John Hinkley Jr.?
Granny Godzilla
December 14th, 2012
4:16 pm
This’ll solve the problem
http://eddieeagle.nra.org/
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:16 pm
STUPID LIBERAL
December 14th, 2012
4:11 pm
Because there were no death’s make it Ok to ban my rights to protect myself by what ever means are necessary ?
____
Yes if you’re crazy or want an assault weapon.
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:17 pm
“If that intruder gets the drop on you, it doesn’t matter what you have in your house.”
So what? At least it would give me a fighting chance. Your argument makes no sense. Wearing my seatbelt is no guarantee that I will survive an auto accident, so should I just stop wearing it?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:17 pm
Shall not be infringed.
There are limits on freedom of speech, religion and other rights. It is absolutely insane to even think that there cannot be limits some guns and in fact the Supreme Court agrees.
That Black Guy
December 14th, 2012
4:17 pm
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
3:56 pm
I erred with Automatic. Should have said Assault Weapons. – Again, how would that have prevented this tragedy? The .223 was still in his car. The theater shooter used a shotgun and handgun.
“According to the official, the suspect drove to the scene of the shootings in his mother’s car. Three guns were found at the scene — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols — and a .223-caliber rifle. The rifle was recovered from the back of a car at the school. The two pistols were recovered from inside the school.”
http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/headlines/connecticut-shooting-suspect-was-younger-brother-held/article_71f74d65-86d5-5300-8364-de77cbe77463.html
Regnad Kcin
December 14th, 2012
4:18 pm
Do chemical weapons come under the definition of “arms” that I’m allowed to keep and bear?
indigo
December 14th, 2012
4:18 pm
It’s pitiful when some here talk about knives, baseball bats and machetes being as dangerous as guns.
If you had to go to a gun fight, would you carry only a knife?
Brosephus™
December 14th, 2012
4:19 pm
I’m sure our people never thought our government could assassinate US citizens with Predator drones without due process of law, but it happened.
Why not? Have you ever read the oath of office that politicians, federal law enforcement, and military personnel take before beginning their service? Part of the oath the person swears or affirms includes defending the Constitution against ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic. If a citizen decides to declare war against the US, then that appears to qualify them as a domestic enemy and subject to the necessary reprecussions of us defending the Constitution.
Recon 0311 2533
December 14th, 2012
4:19 pm
It’s not infrequent even in the AJC to read about how a would be perp was thwarted from committing a crime by an armed private citizen.
getalife
December 14th, 2012
4:19 pm
This one will spark change because it is government’s job to keep Americans safe.
Parents will demand it.
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:20 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight, I respect your candor. Not many liberals openly roll their eyes at the Constitution, they only do it in private. But you’re not afraid too. Bravo.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:20 pm
Common sense gun laws are not seeking to ban all guns, they are seeking to reduce gun violence, protect innocents, provide gun safety for gun owners, their families and others, and to preclude the use of guns by criminals or those who would commit crimes. We have to start somewhere.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:20 pm
“There are limits on freedom of speech, religion and other rights. It is absolutely insane to even think that there cannot be limits some guns and in fact the Supreme Court agrees.”
You are correct and that’s why SCOTUS ruled in “Heller” that the D.C. government could NOT BAN handguns (or other firearms) for its citizens. Reasonable rules yes ………… banning no.
Next !
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:21 pm
TBG – Start at the top of the comments and it’ll make sense. If, after reading you still don’t get my point, you have my pity.
jose
December 14th, 2012
4:21 pm
What gets lost in all the gun control chatter is that in most of these cases, it seems like there are mental health issues that have grown over some time. How about calls for mental healht awareness and resources to help parents and other loved ones who have somebody like this in their family? Let’s get help for them before they start looking for a gun,
Where's My Party?
December 14th, 2012
4:21 pm
Someone on Twitter just asked me: “WHY does this happen now when it didn’t 40, 50 years ago? WHAT is different?”
Our country is in a continued state of moral decline. Respect, honor, integrity…..harder and harder to come by.
Just my $.02 as well. Just as abstinence doesn’t work as a form of birth control and “banning” or making illegal substances like cocaine and meth, doesn’t mean people aren’t going to get it on or find them some crack. Banning guns won’t work either. Those who want them will find a way to get them.
JOE COOL........
December 14th, 2012
4:22 pm
This is why I need my guns…. for idiots like these guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BJgL2yXAJY
JamVet
December 14th, 2012
4:23 pm
98, as self-destructive as you cons are and as much as you detest Ralph Nader, I’m surprised that you do wear seat belts! (grin)
David Shivers
December 14th, 2012
4:23 pm
Mass tragedies like Sandy Hook will continue to happen until we as a nation say enough is enough, and even then it will take time to turn the tide, because real solutions take time. We need to rethink our approaches not only to firearms access but also to mental health issues and treatment. Guns are often touted as necessary for self-defense, and I don’t really have problem with that, but we need a collective national “self-defense” to enhance protection for all people, especially young children like today.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:23 pm
Scout, so you are arguing against what no one who wants common sense gun laws has asked for. How absolutely foolish, inane, ridiculous and ignorant on your part. Surely you can engage your brain and deal with real issues instead of spouting NRA nonsense like some sickening parrot.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 14th, 2012
4:24 pm
Shooting a weapon is just like riding a bicycle. Once you have learned how to do so, you will always be able to do so. Calling for a mandatory yearly training class is not acceptable. I have been shooting since I was 5. I did grow up during the cold war, and my parents were so sure that the russians were coming. So I learned at an early age how to handle, respect and maintain a weapon. Military training helped me as well.
Calling for mental people to be denied gun ownership is a slippery slope. Who is to determine that someone is mentally incapable of owning a weapon ? I sure would not trust a government employee telling me that I was mentally incapable.
I do believe that people should at least attend some time of training class and issued a license before they are allowed to purchase a gun. Currently, anyone can walk into a store, and walk out of that weapon within 20 mins.
rightwingextreme
December 14th, 2012
4:24 pm
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:00 pm
Assault weapon is a political term, often used by gun control advocates, typically referring to firearms “designed for rapidly firing at human targets from close range,”[1] sometimes described as military-style features useful in combat.[2]
Three points…..
1)typical lib gotta call names cause they can’t answer the question.
2) it is a political term….in other words…made up.
3) you didn’t answer the question
The point I’m trying to make is that any weapon is an assault weapon.
I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need to protect yourself from a horrific criminal. Your words are not going to do it.
RB from Gwinnett
December 14th, 2012
4:24 pm
Just once I’d like to see every headline read…
“AN EVIL MAN KILLED 27 AT AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN CONNECTICUT TODAY. HIS BODY WAS DISPOSED OF IN THE DUMPSTER WITH THE REST OF THE GARBAGE”
No names, no family history, no fame.
Citizen of the World
December 14th, 2012
4:24 pm
One poster noted a new Tom Cruise picture will be opening soon with lots of violent gun action — one of many such films, most probably. I think that’s part of the problem, too. This carnage is glorified. In college I did a report on movie and TV violence against women (better be a good girl!), and some of the studies I came across said the film violence most copied is that which is easiest to copy. And gun violence is way too easy to copy.
So one step we can perhaps all take is to quit supporting this gratuitous movie violence with our entertainment dollars.
Brosephus™
December 14th, 2012
4:25 pm
How much extensive training did the murderers at Va Tech, Columbine and Aurora have?
I didn’t realize Dylan Klebold was an ex-Navy Seal.
If I remember correctly, the Columbine kids either were hunters or did target shooting in the woods. I think the VA Tech kid spent time at ranges. I don’t know the details about Aurora.
One thing you don’t appear to consider is that action is always faster than reaction. Your hypothetical kid in the class is reactive to the shooter, which means that the shooter has already began firing off rounds before that person even attempts to get to their gun.
I’ve seen it done in traning exercises before. A person can get off about 6 rapid shots before you can unholster a concealed gun. If that gun is in a bag, then you have to add the additional time necessary to get to the bag.
Regardless of the situation, action almost always beats reaction.
Skip
December 14th, 2012
4:25 pm
98, it’s because one guy doesn’t care who he kills and the other needs to know who the target is. Believe me, firefights are unplanned chaos. Friendly fire is more common than we wish to admit.
pogo
December 14th, 2012
4:26 pm
It’s is always amazing to listen to people after these things wailing about if the guns hadn’t been there this wouldn’t have happened but nary a word about the society that produces the violent and vacant monsters such as the one that did this. Granny, you are going for the low hanging fruit which makes you all the more dispicaable.. The real problem is us, not the guns.
Aquagirl
December 14th, 2012
4:26 pm
Why does it take special training for a Good Samaritan hero to shoot someone in the head, while 16-year old high school students are apparently pretty good at it?
Because the Good Samaritan hero won’t be aiming at a 15 year old cowering on the floor. The Colombine shooters probably missed some of their intended targets and hit others unintentionally.
For mass shooters there is no wrong person to plug, that’s kind of their point.
If you can’t tell the difference between objectives of a nutbag mass murderer and someone trying to stop them, you might want to stop talking. But only if it bothers you when you sound like an uniformed wannabe spouter. If that doesn’t bother you, go for it. Your mouth can probably accommodate unlimited feet with little discomfort.
JamVet
December 14th, 2012
4:26 pm
I am all for the Second Amendment.
And why if I had a rocket launcher, some gun toting sonofab*tch would pay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vCww3j2-w
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:27 pm
JamVet, ever seen that documentary about Nader called “An Unreasonable Man”? Liberals hate him worse than anyone because he cost them a couple elections. Great footage of Michael Moore giving a rousing speech on his behalf in 2000, and footage of Moore four years later at another rally mocking, ridiculing Nader and begging him to drop out. Regardless of political affiliation, I have no idea how anyone has respect for Michael Moore.
Brosephus™
December 14th, 2012
4:27 pm
Scout @ 4:15
With Whitman, I’d add accuracy before volume. My point, however, was that this violence is not a recent creation. Our country has seen violent incidents since the 1700’s. Our country was founded with a violent overthrow of England, so I’d say that violence is part of our culture and not something that’s detrimental to it.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
4:28 pm
Why is it false equivalence?
Because this nut, the nuts in Colorado,and the nut at Va. Tech were shooting indiscriminately while you mythical hero is looking for only one particular individual. And has been pointed out, many trained professionals freeze up in just these types of situations.
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:28 pm
Aquagirl, thanks for living up to the liberal stereotype that when you run out of cogent arguments, you resort to personal slander.
It never fails.
AmericaShrugged
December 14th, 2012
4:28 pm
How can a country that can’t round up 11 million illegal aliens expect to round up 350,000,000 guns?
JamVet
December 14th, 2012
4:29 pm
So one step we can perhaps all take is to quit supporting this gratuitous movie violence with our entertainment dollars.
Done. Starting about thirty five years ago.
Cruise, Stallone, Ahnuld, Willis – these are the men, among countless others, who sell their worthless souls to glamorize depravity. And the stooges addicted to violence in this country cannot get enough.
F em all.
Class of '98
December 14th, 2012
4:29 pm
“many trained professionals freeze up in just these types of situations.”
Then why have an army? Why have a police force?
If these highly trained experts are unreliable, will you at least let me try to protect MYSELF?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
4:29 pm
0311: Some people like to pick their category and ignore others.
And they are all big on restricting the freedoms of others but when it comes to their own, not so much.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:30 pm
Good Fight:
You can call me names. I will simply offer debate.
The books are FULL of reasonable gun laws all over this country. Connecticutt probably has some of the most restrictive. Look at Illinois (Chicago) and the gang carnage/murder there.
I carried a pocket knife to school all through elementary so we could whittle or play knumblypeg at recess. I had friends who took their .22’s to school so they could squirrel hunt afterwards (the teacher would make sure they were unloaded and put them in the clothes closet).
The CULTURE has changed !
“My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” II Chronicles 7:14
Granny Godzilla
December 14th, 2012
4:30 pm
pogo
you silly little man
the problem is both of them, all us smart folks get that.
what you have hanging low are your knuckles
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:30 pm
Scout, because you seem unable to spout anything but the NRA nonsense about the Heller case, here is some real info:
On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a 5-4 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller. Justice Scalia, writing for the majority, held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess handguns for use in self-defense in a person’s home. However, he stressed that this right is not unlimited.
Although the Court split 5-4 on the whether the right granted by the Second Amendment is tied to militia service, all nine Justices agreed that a wide variety of gun laws are presumptively lawful. The Court listed many types of laws that would not be barred by the Second Amendment and stated that this list does not purport to be exhaustive.
•Bans on gun possession by dangerous persons such as felons and the mentally ill
•Laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings
•Laws imposing conditions and qualifications on gun sales, which could include background checks, licensing, and limits on bulk sales of handguns
•Prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons
•Prohibitions on dangerous and unusual weapons, such as machineguns and military-style semiautomatic assault weapons
•Safe storage laws to prevent gun accidents
Brosephus™
December 14th, 2012
4:30 pm
So what? At least it would give me a fighting chance. Your argument makes no sense. Wearing my seatbelt is no guarantee that I will survive an auto accident, so should I just stop wearing it?
That’s not my point. If the intruder puts a bullet into your head right between your eyes before you have a chance to react, what good is a weapon to you then? That’s my point. If the intruder gets the drop on you, you DON’T have a fighting chance.
Ask Scout about the 1986 FBI Miami shooting if you don’t understand what I’m saying, or look it up yourself.
Krystal'sBalls
December 14th, 2012
4:31 pm
I tell you this, if I know my damned kid was CRAZY I would make sure the right people know it, and I would make sure HE knows I know his ass is crazy, especially if I know that he likes to dabble in the weaponry like so many of these fools do. Body armor, night vision goggles, THOUSANDS of rounds of ammo stockpiled and those types of things. Just like some of the people who are out here on this very blog reading my post. You better believe I have guns, multiple guns. What I do not do though is allow what can become a derangement of sorts to overtake me or become so bitter about things in LIFE that I cannot control to drive me batchyt. YOU people owe it to society to be honest with your crazy assed kinfolk and get them some help. At least be honest enough to let them know that YOU know their ass is crazy. It can make a difference.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 14th, 2012
4:31 pm
Brospehus:
Yes ………. always violence but in my opinion the volume is up substantially and it is because of “culture”.
alittlecommonsense
December 14th, 2012
4:31 pm
Absolutely horrific. My heart breaks for the parents.
That said, no sort of law or gun control will stop this sort of thing short of stormtroopers going door to door and collecting every citizen’s weapons. That isn’t possible, constitutional, or rational.
More armed teachers is a possible real world solution. It IS possible, constitutional and rational. The only problem is that it doesn’t politically satisfy liberals.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:32 pm
Scout, you lie. I did not call you a single name.
willie lynch
December 14th, 2012
4:33 pm
In Britain they have healthy hunting and sport gun ownership, why do they have so few murders due to gun violence?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
4:33 pm
Why have a police force?
I said “many”, not “all”.
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
4:34 pm
So if a legally armed citizen had been present and started shooting at the nut case after the nut case had only shot 3 or 4 children and the LAC missed and hit one kid, 5 kids would be shot instead of 27 and that would be a bad thing?????
Granny Godzilla
December 14th, 2012
4:34 pm
“More armed teachers”
un-freakin’-believeable.
rightwingextreme
December 14th, 2012
4:35 pm
East Lake Ira
December 14th, 2012
4:02 pm
rightwingnutjob:
And before you start with the BS about knives etc, see the crazy guy in China that attacked 20 kids with a knife. Horrific. No deaths.
And that makes it ok??????
The whole point is that there are sadly some sick individuals in this world that want to do harm to others. Firearms are a means to help defend the innocent against these sickos. They are what evens the odds in favor of a woman against a male burglar.
But the main point is that the Second Amendment was not designed for that purpose, though it is a benefit. It is designed to protect the citizens of the once great country against an oppressive government.
Don’t think governments fear an armed citiznery. Ask the Nazis. They disarmed the Jews first. Imagine if the Jews had been allowed to have assault weapons. I would venture to say there wouldn’t have been six million killed.
Ask anyone in North Korea who isn’t too far brainwashed what a well armed citizenry could do against the little dictator.
Ask anyone living under an oppressive government if weapons wouldn’t provide an avenue for freedom.
I know you think these scenarious couldn’t happen here. But as long as there are power hungry people it can happen. Study history and you’ll understand…maybe.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 14th, 2012
4:35 pm
In Britain they have healthy hunting and sport gun ownership, why do they have so few murders due to gun violence?
I believe that hand guns are a no-no in Britain.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 14th, 2012
4:35 pm
0311 — “Reasonable rules yes ………… banning no. Next !”
I’m glad to see you’ve joined us over on the Pro-Choice side.
Recon 0311 2533
December 14th, 2012
4:36 pm
“Currently, anyone can walk into a store, and walk out of that weapon within 20 mins.”
Nope it takes a bit longer than that even if you possess a gun license you’ll need to wait for the clerk to fill out the paper work registering the sale, which takes about 20 minutes. If you don’t have a license you’ll have to wait until the store completes a background check first before they do the paperwork, so total time would be over an hour.
Brosephus™
December 14th, 2012
4:36 pm
Indigo @ 4:18
http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/
JamVet
December 14th, 2012
4:37 pm
Liberals hate him worse than anyone because he cost them a couple elections.
Nope, you are dead wrong. I have read about him extensively for many years and you do not know what you are talking about.
Yes there are plenty of demented dems who say he cost Gore the White House. (Though Al himself said of course he didn’t.) And yes there are plenty of other dems who think he is too extremist.
But you Republicans?
You hate EVERYTHING about him.
Every single thing.
Because he stands for everything you are against – consumers, taxpayers, shareholders, the working class, labor unions, economic justice, a competitive democracy, true American capitalism, the environment and on and on and on.
And you neocons think this almost one of a kind, brilliant, important man of great courage is a complete fool.
Jay
December 14th, 2012
4:38 pm
“More armed teachers is a possible real world solution. It IS possible, constitutional and rational. The only problem is that it doesn’t politically satisfy liberals.”
That’s just pure crazy talk. You want to put a fully loaded firearm within easy reach of a classroom teacher — otherwise it wouldn’t be of much use — yet somehow keep it out of reach of the 20-something kids in that same classroom?
godless heathen Christmas has declared war on me
December 14th, 2012
4:39 pm
Just got back from fetching the mail. There is an elementary school across the road and cars and buses were lined up to take the tikes home. I paused and tried to imagine the situation in Conn. and how someone could be so depraved to go into a school a lot like the one I was looking at and harm the little ones. And I cried a bit.
Times like this I wish I could believe in heaven and hell and think that the little ones are in a better place and this SOB’s nutz are roasting on a open fire right now.
Krystal'sBalls
December 14th, 2012
4:39 pm
Tell us about this “culture” @0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
You mean the “culture” I see whenever I go to a GA show?
Or the one where people obsess over “SHTF” scenarios, zombie apocalypse and “bugging out”??
Or the “taking our country back” “culture”??
Or the mass murdering culture that 90% of the time takes place in rural communities, where people don’t have a pot to piss on or window to throw it out of, yet they have all the guns and ammo you could want?
Or the “culture” where so-called parents sit idly by while their kids stockpile weapons from a young age, oftentimes put into their hands by their Paw or Grandpa when they are barely out of diapers (ok, 9)??
Oh, ok…THAT “culture”. I get it.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 14th, 2012
4:39 pm
People must die in mass murders just in case a government becomes oppressive because of course those handguns and assault weapons can be used to “defeat” a well trained military with drones, tanks, bombs, satellites and extensive training and there is NO common sense gun law that can limit the Red Dawn madness foolishness?