The biggest scandal in 50 years, right before your eyes
If you start naming the biggest political scandals of the past 50 years, Watergate and Bill Clinton’s “I did not have sex with that woman” mistake would have to be included. So would Ronald Reagan’s decision to secretly trade arms for hostages, along with the mass deception and self-deception perpetrated by the Bush administration to get us into Iraq.
However, while presidents Nixon and Clinton were led astray by their weakness for power and sex, neither consciously put the security of the country at risk. Reagan made a serious mistake, but he was at least motivated by sincere concern for the lives of U.S. hostages. The invasion of Iraq is a closer call, but even there, President Bush and his administration weren’t consciously choosing to do damage to our country.
By that standard, the most disturbing political scandal of the past half century is playing out today before our very eyes, to too little notice or comprehension. Marc Thiessen, a former speechwriter for George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld and now a columnist for the Washington Post, lays the plot out there for everyone to see:
“Today, Obama is perfectly willing to go over the fiscal cliff and blame the GOP for the resulting tax increases on the middle class. But when it comes to the debt limit, he does not have that luxury. He can’t default on our debt — the consequences are too catastrophic. So in the end he will cave.
Indeed, he would have caved during the last debt-limit stand-off, in the summer of 2011. According to Bob Woodward, when Obama told his advisers he intended to veto the debt-limit bill the Republican-controlled House had passed, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner told him he couldn’t — that if Republicans didn’t give in, he had no choice but to sign their bill. “You can’t veto,” Geithner reportedly told Obama, because the consequences “would be indelible, incurable. It would last for generations.”
Republicans had Obama cornered and didn’t know it — so they let him off the hook. When the next debt-limit increase comes in February, they will know better. The president’s current negotiating leverage dissipates as soon as we go over the fiscal cliff. Come February, the tables will be turned — and Republicans will hold all the cards in the debt-limit negotiations.”
If I may, I would like to offer a pithier but still entirely accurate version of Thiessen’s advice to Republicans*:
That fool Obama cares too much about what happens to this country and its people. That is his fatal weakness. You, on the other hand, don’t care about “catastrophic” consequences that would be “indelible, incurable” and “last for generations.” Your amorality is your strength. Use it to demand what you want, or else.
Maybe it’s just me, but I find the whole idea extraordinary. Since when is the willingness to inflict “indelible, incurable” damage on our country something to be bragged about and used as leverage? Since when is it OK for a major political party to hold a gun to the country’s head, figuratively speaking of course? Has patriotism become so diluted by cynicism that such strategies can now be publicly embraced and advocated?
And of course, it’s not just some former speechwriter advocating this strategy. This is the course that the Washington Republican establishment seems ready to adopt. As Sen. Lindsey Graham told Fox Monday, “In February or March you have to raise the debt ceiling. And I can tell you this, there is a hardening on the Republican side. We’re not going to raise the debt ceiling.”
You’re not? What’s next? “We won’t pay the troops, even if it leaves the nation defenseless, unless you surrender to us on the budget?” How would that be substantively different?
Of course, Republicans have talked themselves into believing that this is all justified. They are so absolutely certain that they are correct about the budget that they are willing to knock the United States to its knees to get their way. It requires an enormous amount of self-righteousness and grandiosity to think that way, but they seem up to the task.
Somehow, it doesn’t seem to have crossed their minds that the U.S. Constitution offers an alternative means of resolving such disputes. It’s called free and open debate. It’s called elections. We just had one, focused largely on the issues at stake here; they spent well over $1 billion trying to sell their viewpoint, and they lost.
Now, having failed to convince the rest of their country of their wisdom, they believe that their desperation gives them the right to impose it under threat of grievous harm?
That isn’t leadership. That isn’t patriotism. It is the act of a petulant, frustrated three-year-old threatening to hold his breath until the country turns blue.
Which, now that I think about it, it may very well do.
– Jay Bookman
* A more risque, profane and metaphorical version of the strategy is available here.
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762 comments Add your comment
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
11:21 am
and then there was welcome to the Occupation…
A racist …… LOL.
josef
December 11th, 2012
11:22 am
Hmmmm
“…how many illiterates…”
Judging from that post, and awaiting an assessment from OREP, I would posit that you are e pluribus unus…
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
11:22 am
“I don’t suppose you bothered to check what would happen if you left a package at UPS or FedEx as they were closing on Friday, did you?”
Actually I do know what would have happened because I’ve shipped to Montgomery before using Fedex. It would have made it in 1 day just like it used to and been there Monday instead of Tuesday. Again. Lesson learned.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:23 am
“When has FACT ever mattered to usinuk… Just like all the rest of these puppets…”
please. In like you lightweights, I actually LINK to FACTS that support my argument.
you guys??? not so much.
josef
December 11th, 2012
11:23 am
He ne ha…
In case you check in, a little Noble Savage humor for you…
The Indians asked their new chief if the coming winter was going to be cold or mild. Since he was a modern man in a modern society, he didn’t know from predicting what the winter was going to be like.
But just to be on the safe side, he told them that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that they collect a lot of firewood to be prepared.
But, being a practical leader and a believer in science, he called the National Weather Service.
‘It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold, ‘ the meteorologist at the weather service responded.
So he went back and told the people to collect even more firewood in order to be prepared.
A week later, he called the National Weather Service again. ‘Does it still look like it is going to be a very cold winter? ‘
‘Yes, it ’s going to be a very cold winter. ‘
So he goes back again and ordered them to collect every scrap of firewood they could find.
Two weeks late, just to make sure he wasn’t overreacting, the chief called the National Weather Service again. ‘Are you absolutely certain that the winter is going to be very cold? ‘
‘Absolutely. It ’s looking more and more like it is going to be one of the coldest winters on record. ‘
‘How can you be so sure? ‘ The chief asked.
The weatherman replied, ‘The Indians are collecting a sh*tload of firewood. ‘
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
11:24 am
ummm…everyone will pay not just the poor republicans
All I hear are poor Republicans whining about paying their bills. If you don’t want the debt, don’t make it. As for how much I’ll pay, it depends on how much I make from each source. Pension, dividends, capital gains, personal business less expenses. The usual.
catlady
December 11th, 2012
11:24 am
I think it is a great idea. Start cutting in the states whose representatives are not willing to help with the crisis. Of course, Georgia will be in the hole pretty quickly, but so be it.Obama should draw up a list of “cuts” to be made on a state by state basis. It IS time for hardball.
Jefferson
December 11th, 2012
11:27 am
Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions unless you are a republican.
Let it be known.
saywhat?
December 11th, 2012
11:29 am
thulsa doom- Obama’s victim.
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
11:30 am
@josef…
lol
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
11:31 am
Josef,
Sagegirl
December 11th, 2012
11:31 am
“Got proof of that?”
I do. My mother worked at Walmart 15 yrs ago. She was never allowed to complete a 40 hr scheduled work-week and when she hit hr 38 was sent home. Every time. They have not changed their business practices.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
11:31 am
TP…thanks for the non answer
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
11:34 am
Josef,
BTW, It’s Stand Watie’s tomorrow…
the cat
December 11th, 2012
11:34 am
Doomy-you pay a fortune to ship via Fed Ex or UPS or the postal service. Why don’t you get your act together and send items in a timely manner or maybe you have stock in Blue or Brown?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:34 am
josef –
Paul
December 11th, 2012
11:34 am
‘Of course, Republicans have talked themselves into believing that this is all justified. They are so absolutely certain that they are correct about the budget that they are willing to knock the United States to its knees to get their way.”
If Republicans had the courage of their convictions, they would not have appropriated funds in excess of the current debt limit.
But they did obligate the country to spend more than the debt limit. Therefore, Republicans don’t just lack the courage of their convictions, they don’t have any.
Courage OR convictions.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:35 am
josef
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
11:35 am
Brocephus,
Its the Dem’s fault. Nice and short and pithy. Tanks.
And speaking of lengthy posts your post on the amount of car business in Detroit is quite a waste. Detroit obviously has more car mfg. than the states I mentioned. This goes back about 100 years and that’s quite a head start. I don’t think anyone doesn’t know that for Pete’s sake. The point is that in new plants being built the Southern states seem to be grabbing quite a bit of new business as far as new plants goes.
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
11:36 am
I actually LINK to FACTS that support my argument.
you guys??? not so much.
See also MadMax @ 10.31, who seems to be arguing that charts containing useful data are tools of the Devil (well, if you read between the lines… I do hear an awful lot of righties who seem to think Jay has a “fixation” on data, which would indicate to me that the people that they prefer, DON’T.)
And by the way–did “Morality ?” ever find a cite for that “1/3 more moochers on disability under Obama” bit he was peddling yesterday?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
11:36 am
Hmmm… you would think everyone would comprehend that UPS and FedEx do NOT deliver to all parts of this country. For those areas they don’t serve directly, they use the USPS. In fact they use a lot of USPS services. It’s garbage to think that either can replace the USPS or even wants to.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:37 am
Paul
Don’t come here talking common sense. You know that infuriates some people.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
11:37 am
Anybody who thinks Barack Obama is a friend of the left, just read this.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/11/president-obama-s-foolish-willingness-to-screw-liberals-over-medicare.html?source=socialflow&account=thedailybeast&medium=twitter
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:38 am
“See also MadMax @ 10.31, who seems to be arguing that charts containing useful data are tools of the Devil ”
although, considering that the table actually refuted his thesis, maybe it is a tool of the devil …
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
11:38 am
And there is a reason why Alabama, Tenn, Georgia, and South Carolia have been adding car mfging plants.
that reason being, mainly, a history of tolerance for slave labor. (these days it’s couched in fat tax breaks that are borne by the population that is supposed to benefit from all those shiny new facilities in their midst.)
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:39 am
dB – 11:36 – no … but evidently it was ALL OVER the news, donchaknow …
josef
December 11th, 2012
11:39 am
I thought y’all might like that one, too! And Unmentionable says from the wind out there today, he might not be collecting firewood, but he’s certainly making sure the gas bill is paid!
CORBIN
It is that. One bad-a33 Redskin, he…! And, Dec. 17 is coming up, 150 year anniversary of…? Wonder if the we can get a post on that one from the Imam?
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
11:39 am
Anybody who thinks Barack Obama is a friend of the left
…will run screaming from anything that is actually left-wing, rhetorically, so I’m not sure why you bother.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
11:40 am
the cat,
Sorry but maybe my expectations of priority mail being able to deliver something in 2 days that’s only a 3 hour drive was just a wee bit too much. But if I ever use the postal svc again I’ll be sure to heed your advice and use plenty of extra time given the tortoise speed of the postal svc.
Donovan
December 11th, 2012
11:41 am
Just got back from a walk and decided to check in to see what the enemy was carping about. Well, well. It sure looks like I stirred up a hornet’s nest. This tells me that what makes you liberals mad is the truth of my postings. It hurts doesn’t it? Now quit behaving like someone bloodied your nose and you don’t know how to fight back.
Stands for Deceipt…you liberals Are the majority of sheep depending on government to tell you what to do, accepting hand-outs, and hating the productive citizens.
Welcome to the Occupation…since you haven’t figured out that your worthless degree won’t earn you a living I would suggest you take a shower, cut your hair, leave your parent’s basement, and go look for a job. Socialism is a losing proposition.
Aqua girl…I get tired of swimming in your cesspool dealing with daydreamers.
How do you talk to a liberal? You can’t, but sometimes they listen and get really, really mad.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:41 am
Doom
And speaking of lengthy posts your post on the amount of car business in Detroit is quite a waste. Detroit obviously has more car mfg. than the states I mentioned.
So, how are they imploding when sales are increasing and two of the Big Three still have the largest market share in the US? You made the statement that they were imploding. I simply pointed out their sales figures and market share. You can trust the Wall Street Journal with that kind of information, right?
As to Southern States getting new plants, what company would turn down freebies? When the state basically gives you land, reduces your taxes to nil, and make it easy to pay employees less, why would a company NOT jump at that option? As it stands, even with the increase in jobs, those same Right-To-Work States, which includes the entire South, will still be at the lower end of per-capita states. The only way to move up the chain is to offer higher wages, and that ain’t happening in GOP controlled states.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
11:43 am
Brosephus
I was kinda going for an alternative to citing a source.
Nothing seems to satisfy those guys, does it?
Hey, I know what it is… their brains aren’t elastic… add more stuff, it creates pressure… give’em sources and logic, it triggers the ‘think’ mechanism, that creates pressure and…
BAM!
Their heads explode.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
11:44 am
SfD — “And by the way–did “Morality ?” ever find a cite for that “1/3 more moochers on disability under Obama” bit he was peddling yesterday?”
He’ll never find it because he’s looking in the wrong place.
*State* disability and workers comp claims are up, NOT Federal. And his description of how one gets on disability yesterday didn’t bear any resemblance whatsoever to how it’s ACTUALLY done — unless you’re talking about state disability and workers comp programs.
Oh, but then he’d have to blame the governors and legislatures of the STATES who let so many people onto the disability rolls — and lots of them are Republicans . . . oh, no . . .
It’s just another example of “Morality” flapping his gums about something he doesn’t know jack spit about.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
11:45 am
“that reason being, mainly, a history of tolerance for slave labor.”
I was told the Hyundai plant outside of Montgomery starts folks off at around $14 an hour. If true then that’s probably a lot more than local starting wages for factory work around Montgomery. But don’t let that get in the way of your emotionalism parade with the nonsensical slave labor rhetoric.
“(these days it’s couched in fat tax breaks that are borne by the population that is supposed to benefit from all those shiny new facilities in their midst.)”
And what the local populations give up in tax breaks to lure these plants they more than make up for in increased sales taxes and substantially increased local economic activity. Or so we are told by the govt officials who made the deals with these companies to begin with. Liberals do trust in the good stewardship and judgment of govt bureaucrats don’t they? Right?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
11:47 am
Doom — “Sorry but maybe my expectations of priority mail being able to deliver something in 2 days that’s only a 3 hour drive was just a wee bit too much. But if I ever use the postal svc again I’ll be sure to heed your advice and use plenty of extra time given the tortoise speed of the postal svc.”
FWIW, you’ll have a MUCH easier time getting the USPS to pay off on an insured package that’s damaged or lost than you will with either UPS or FedEX. I’ll take the slower speed in exchange for the shipper not wanting to take three weeks to “investigate” the issue. Look, you insured it, here’s the smashed package, now pay up.
USPS comes right across. UPS and FedEX, not so much.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:47 am
“Nothing seems to satisfy those guys, does it?”
which is the root of a LOT of their problems, if ya know what I mean (and I think that you do)
Madmax
December 11th, 2012
11:47 am
Usink – again only if you cherry pick your years and even then, they continue to show the issue is spending – if you do trend analysis, you will see it took us 200 years to reach 1 trillion in spending, 15 years to reach 2 trillion, 7 years to reach 3 trillion and current projections are for us to reach 4 trillion in 6 or less. What part of that trend do you fail to understand. While revenues are recovering, there has been no spending reduction using any measure by this administration.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
11:47 am
Josef,
Dec 17…Grant expels the Jews from his department…correct Professor ?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
11:48 am
Donovan — “Now quit behaving like someone bloodied your nose and you don’t know how to fight back.”
ST*U, Donny.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes
josef
December 11th, 2012
11:49 am
“that reason being, mainly, a history of tolerance for slave labor.”
Well, that, and 150 years of imperial colonialist occupation…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:50 am
Paul
getalife
December 11th, 2012
11:51 am
Dang, I thought we finally had a scandal with this President but it is just the gop acting like spoiled children. We see that everyday from the cons.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
11:51 am
Donovan,
Sometimes, just when I think you might actually have a point, you say something snarky and unnecessary, making everything else trite. It must really suck being as angry as you seem to be all the time. You might want to consider a hobby…just saying…
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:52 am
“Usink – again only if you cherry pick your years and even then, they continue to show the issue is spending”
dearheart, I’m dancing to the beat that YOU laid down in your 10:30 chart, which was about revenues being more than what they were pre-recession.
they weren’t. it’s not cherry picking data – it’s refuting YOUR thesis.
you posted the link and you were wrong. now, man up and admit it.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:54 am
And what the local populations give up in tax breaks to lure these plants they more than make up for in increased sales taxes and substantially increased local economic activity.
So, that explains why Montgomery had to increase their sales tax to 10%….
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:54 am
Corbin – “Sometimes, just when I think you might actually have a point, you say something snarky and unnecessary, making everything else trite.”
sometimes????
josef
December 11th, 2012
11:55 am
CORBIN
Correct,,,move to the front of the class..
Pretty to the point, that order was…he must’ve been sober that day…
“The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
Post commanders will see to it that all of this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters.
No passes will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application of trade permits”
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
11:55 am
“You might want to consider a hobby…just saying…”
What?! And give up his hobby of coming here?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 11th, 2012
11:55 am
Jay’s fainting couch had to be sent out to be reupholstered after all the cons here cried all over and peed on it when the results of the election became known
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
11:57 am
Well, that, and 150 years of imperial colonialist occupation…
de po’ foreign industrialist white man can’t get a break.
around $14 an hour.
Why, that’s actually enough to live on, kinda (with help from various assistance programs, which we should gratefully provide to our citizens, mind you).
Obviously we should welcome these Korean insect overlords.
Or so we are told by the govt officials who made the deals with these companies to begin with. Liberals do trust in the good stewardship and judgment of govt bureaucrats don’t they?
When they’re conservative governors who’ve been elected on “freedumb good gubmint baaad” rhetoric? no, not generally.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
11:58 am
What this country needs is a minimum wage for upper level management.
And in the spirit of economic justice and fairness, I say make it about 75% of what it was in 1968 (Which is the case for the actual minimum wage right now), so that puts it at about $65,000 per year…
Then the now record corporate profits can be used to revitalize the middle class and we can restore actual capitalism in this country once again…
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
12:01 pm
So, that explains why Montgomery had to increase their sales tax to 10%….
good lord.
I’m assuming this includes food and clothing (another hideous culture-shock I experienced when I moved Down Here.)
josef
December 11th, 2012
12:01 pm
SFD
Well, that, too!
Georgia
December 11th, 2012
12:02 pm
Any deal will necessarily disappoint everyone, like some self-fulfilling founding vision of a house divided against itself on every stinking issue. We are just going to print money. if cash is the new king, then we’ll just bring down the king. Just like the inflationary rabble we truly are.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
12:03 pm
JamVet
Read a good proposal the other day.
Tie workers’ pay raises and bonuses to CEO pay and bonuses.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
12:03 pm
“So, how are they imploding when sales are increasing and two of the Big Three still have the largest market share in the US? You made the statement that they were imploding.”
You’re right. My mistake. I should have said had imploded as in past tense. You know. Seeing as how that was in fact exactly what happened before the U.S. taxpayer had to bail their asses out to the tune of mega billios of dollars. Did you somehow forget about all that? And just out of curiosity have we been paid back all of our taxpayer money yet?
“As to Southern States getting new plants, what company would turn down freebies? When the state basically gives you land, reduces your taxes to nil, and make it easy to pay employees less, why would a company NOT jump at that option? As it stands, even with the increase in jobs, those same Right-To-Work States, which includes the entire South, will still be at the lower end of per-capita states. The only way to move up the chain is to offer higher wages, and that ain’t happening in GOP controlled states.”
Sorry but your entire statement rings hollow considering the mega billions of dollars of taxpayers money that was spent propping up the big 3 in the unionized states. Surely you realize in your statement about tax giveaways by the states that these tax icentives are in the millions and not the billions. And surely you do recognize that if we are going to talk about giveaways by the taxpayers and subsidies by govt to car companies that we are talking about millions in the cases of these states and not the mega billions to the big 3 in the unionized states. Surely you understand the difference in millions in taxbreaker breaks compared to mega billions right???
And same question to you that I posed to stands? Surely you trust the allknowing judgment and competency of govt bureaucrats who agreed to give these tax breaks to these companies to locate in the South. Being a liberal we all know that gubment knows best. Right?
alex
December 11th, 2012
12:04 pm
Just be happy you don’t work in Detroit where the teachers have opted for a sick day so that can protest the right to work initiative , thus the children stay at home and the WORKING parents have to find help or take a day off from work. Now disagreement and protesting is the American way but closing schools because of ta lack of teachers is inexcusable. After all this is detroit where the ENTIRE city is undergoing an architectural reorganization and downsizing due to the declining population and economy of the area, The Unions have obstructed multiple attempts by the city council, etc to get finances under control……Lovely….And it’s COLD; wait, we’ll call it a SNOW day….Sheeesh…
Paul
December 11th, 2012
12:04 pm
Georgia
Well, as was noted earlier, if Republicans don’t want to raise the debt limit, they can stop appropriating funds in excess of the current limit.
But they won’t.
josef
December 11th, 2012
12:05 pm
Jokes aside, why those states and the auto industry, etc? Lillian Hellman’s Hubbards are still in bidness and moving with the times…
getalife
December 11th, 2012
12:05 pm
“what company would turn down freebies? ”
Moochers, leechers, lend me your ears.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
12:06 pm
dB
I can’t remember if food is covered, but clothing… yep!!! It’s been 10% for a few years too. I can’t remember when the wife and I first came across that, but we were shopping locally on one of our visits to friends there. We decided against buying anything there and just waited until we got back here. That made our 7% here seem quaint.
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
12:07 pm
Tie workers’ pay raises and bonuses to CEO pay and bonuses.
Yarite. Let’s fight that battle.
I guarantee you, every single solitary GOPer (and a shameful number of sk@anky corporate Democrats) would be willing to die on that hill.
But we’d have the righteous power of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie and maybe Al Franken, and President… hey, where’d our reinforcements from 1600 Pennsylvania run off to?
(ditto this for that stock transaction tax thingie Stevie Ray was talking about the last few days.)
F. Sinkwich
December 11th, 2012
12:07 pm
“Medical plans are facing an unexpected new fee. It´s to help cover people with pre-existing conditions under President Obama´s health care overhaul. The $63-per-head fee — buried in a recent regulation — will hit health plans serving an estimated 190 million Americans, mostly workers and their families. It´s payable starting in 2014. Employers are not happy.”
Now that it’s passed we’re finding out what’s in it!
And it ain’t pretty.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
12:08 pm
Alex,
You’re a hoot…
Rawmilkdrinker
December 11th, 2012
12:09 pm
Straitroad; Try looking at it this way. You give up 20-30% of your income off the top and see how much easier it will be for you pay your rent, mortage, electric and grocery expenses that you’ve already incurred.
Jackie
December 11th, 2012
12:09 pm
It appears those who support the so-called conservatives position on the debt limit and spending do not understand how our government works.
ALL spending must come from the House of Representatives. The Republican controlled House voted on and spent money last year and we are obligated to pay that debt, they want to moan and complain about President Obama not showing leadership in that he will not sign the bill that does not meet our obligations. In other words, the so-called conservatives want to run up their bill and want to complain because THEY spent more than they wanted their supporters to know.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
12:10 pm
Early afternoon meltdown in progress
The hits just keep coming…
These attitudes are the exact thing that will have the Repubs back in the WH in no time..
Keep up the good work
getalife
December 11th, 2012
12:10 pm
filky,
Ok, single payer then.
Deal?
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
12:11 pm
Sinkwich,
It’s to help cover people with pre-existing conditions. Are you heartless?
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
12:11 pm
Speaking of scandals–was I the only one in here who was pissed off at the White House floating a “raise the Medicare eligibility age” trial balloon, late last week?
I’ve brought it up repeatedly and nobody else has said boo. Just wondering.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
12:12 pm
You’re right. My mistake.
Glad to see that you acknowledged as such for once in your life. It must be quite humbling for someone with your ego to actually have to admit you were wrong about something. And, no I didn’t forget about the bailout of the auto manufacturers at all. Had you made reference to that in your original post, I would have acknowledged it.
Surely you trust the allknowing judgment and competency of govt bureaucrats who agreed to give these tax breaks to these companies to locate in the South. Being a liberal we all know that gubment knows best. Right?
Obviously, with these goverments making those decisions being “Conservative” run governments, it seems that the judgments and competency trust is a conservative trait and not a liberal one. Seems as though Conservatives trust in the judgement of government just as much, if not more, than they seem to think liberals do. The big difference is that liberals are honest when it comes to their judgement of government. If conservatives were more honest about anything related to their incessant dependence on government, it would be a first.
As for my trust in government, I don’t trust any elected official farther than I can throw them. I can’t count the number of times I’ve stated that here. Maybe you’ll pay attention this time as to avoid asking that same question later on in the future. Given your track record, though, I’m sure I’ll answer that same question for you time and time again in the future.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
12:12 pm
Paul,
One of my service providers sent me a survey yesterday. After I dutifully answered all of their questions, they asked me if I had any other suggestions.
I wrote – Outsource ALL of their upper management jobs to India and bring ALL of the technical and customer service jobs back to this country.
I am not expecting a reply…
F. Sinkwich
December 11th, 2012
12:13 pm
“Democratic lawmakers have joined with Republicans in raising alarm about a looming ObamaCare-tied tax on medical devices, saying the additional tax is causing “uncertainty and confusion for businesses” and should be delayed.”
The hits just keep on coming…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
12:14 pm
dB
I’m with you on that. They need to leave those programs alone right now. The whole “crisis” crap is manufactured and increased permanent employment will alleviate most all of the issues without changing a thing.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
12:14 pm
Why no mention of the billions to bail out the financial industry and their stupidity?
Jackie
December 11th, 2012
12:14 pm
The so-called conservatives should take a look at what this is all about and how this affects everyone.
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/01/fret_ceiling.html
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
12:15 pm
Tie workers’ pay raises and bonuses to CEO pay and bonuses.
Yarite. Let’s fight that battle.
I guarantee you, every single solitary GOPer (and a shameful number of sk@anky corporate Democrats) would be willing to die on that hill.
it’s a fight worth fighting
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
12:15 pm
“around $14 an hour.
Why, that’s actually enough to live on, kinda (with help from various assistance programs, which we should gratefully provide to our citizens, mind you).”- SFD
Well perhaps they should just start them off at $86 an hour. If a husband and wife make $14 an hour its basically 58k a year in Montgomery. And believe it or not people can live off 58k a year in Montgomery. And lastly I believe that the median income of a household in the U.S. is in the mid 50s so the “starting” wage would actually be above the median U.S. wage if that is true. I’m sorry- what was that nonsense you were spewing about slave labor?
“Obviously we should welcome these Korean insect overlords.”-sfd
Liberals do love they racism and xenophobia don’t they?
“Or so we are told by the govt officials who made the deals with these companies to begin with. Liberals do trust in the good stewardship and judgment of govt bureaucrats don’t they?) Doom
“When they’re conservative governors who’ve been elected on “freedumb good gubmint baaad” rhetoric? no, not generally.”- SFD
Stands, you’re right. Maybe we should let the Dems decide what private companies get money or tax subsidies. After all they did so well with Solyndra…
getalife
December 11th, 2012
12:15 pm
filky,
Single payer?
Deal?
obamaSINLADEN
December 11th, 2012
12:17 pm
…they believe that their desperation gives them the right to impose it under threat of grievous harm?
u mean like when the dems RAMMED socialized(tax payer funded by feds stealing a persons hard earned money before that person can get it) health “care”? down this countrys throat?? wheres ur tolerance?
getalife
December 11th, 2012
12:17 pm
doomy,
Tell us more about those companies leeching and mooching.
I am all ears.
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
12:18 pm
They need to leave those programs alone right now.
Words really cannot express my fury at the White House for putting that one out there.[1]
JC on a pike, just three years ago we were having very serious discussions about the possibility of extending Medicare to those between 55-64 (it would be a buy-in program; supposedly, Joe Liebermann stood in the way, although there are dark conspiracy-theories out there that had Joe taking the fall)
And the White House decides to blithely test whether we’d go for heading literally in an opposition direction and privatizing the program, essentially, for millions of Americans.
un be leevable.
—-
1. not that this stopped me from writing to the White House and letting them know how PO’d I was, mind you.
Adam
December 11th, 2012
12:18 pm
They BOTH suck: These attitudes are the exact thing that will have the Repubs back in the WH in no time..
Keep up the good work
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
12:19 pm
dems RAMMED socialized
oh, do go back to kindy-garten. They rang the bell, didn’t you hear?
Adam
December 11th, 2012
12:20 pm
Thulsa Doom: After all they did so well with Solyndra…
And who else Doomy? Can you name one single solitary OTHER company besides that one that went bankrupt while on the loan program?
Can you explain why the majority of other loan holders in green energy are paying back their loans 46% faster than expected?
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/03/14/clean-energy-federal-loan-guarantees-cost-46-less-than-expected/
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
12:20 pm
“uncertainty and confusion for businesses”
I’ve spent a great deal of time mocking Ayn Rand and the heroic bigger than life characters she created, but there is one admirable quality those titans of industry have — they never wavered over some threat of “uncertainty” — they had a vision and acted on it.
“Uncertainty” has become some catch-all excuse for inaction and wealth hoarding.
Adam
December 11th, 2012
12:21 pm
Excuse me, paying back their loans faster than expected, therefore costing taxpayers 46% less?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
12:22 pm
u mean like when the dems RAMMED socialized(tax payer funded by feds stealing a persons hard earned money before that person can get it) health “care”?
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They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
12:22 pm
Isn’t it a stretch to say that on average both the husband on wife will both have what is considered higher end hourly wages in Montgomery?
Sure it happens, but at what percent of the population of the metro area?
If those jobs were already so plentiful at that rate in that area, why would there have been such a higher number of applicants when the plant opened?
If it was same ole, same ole, the jobs would have been filled but the supply would not have out paced the demand as it did and probably still does
Adam
December 11th, 2012
12:25 pm
I have discovered that, for the most part, it is to my benefit and the Democrats’ benefit to let the right think they are correct on things, while also pointing out they are wrong, calmly, with facts. It is also to our benefit to let the media continue to highlight the crazy things coming out of the Republicans’ mouths. It keeps people engaged in voting. And highlighting how the Tea party took over when everyone stayed home also helps mobilize people.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
12:25 pm
I have found that those who complain the most about having something rammed down their throats, are the same ones who will swallow anything.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
12:25 pm
“It must be quite humbling for someone with your ego to actually have to admit you were wrong about something.”
It is rather difficult it is. But its not that big a deal to say I should have used past tense. Regardless though the point still stands that without the taxpayer saving their asses that these unionized auto companies would have “imploded”.
Ya’ll do lemme know when we have to bail out these nonunionized plants down here to the tune of mega billions.
B
O
O
M
!
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
12:28 pm
Donovan: “Welcome to the Occupation…since you haven’t figured out that your worthless degree won’t earn you a living I would suggest you take a shower, cut your hair, leave your parent’s basement, and go look for a job. Socialism is a losing proposition”
Nice caricature! Where’d you pick up that one, from Rush?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
12:28 pm
Jay
Thusla hasn’t declared himself a winner or said another has lost, but he did post his BOOM…
Go ahead and send him that tube top with the AJC logo..
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
12:28 pm
And Mo Dowd nails it:
The Mayans were right, as it turns out, when they predicted the world would end in 2012. It was just a select world: the G.O.P. universe of arrogant, uptight, entitled, bossy, retrogressive white guys.
. . .
The G.O.P. put up a candidate that no one liked or understood and ran a campaign that no one liked or understood — a campaign animated by the idea that indolent, grasping serfs must be kept down, even if it meant creating barriers to letting them vote.
. . .
Who would ever have thought blacks would get out and support the first black president? Who would ever have thought women would shy away from the party of transvaginal probes? Who would ever have thought gays would work against a party that treated them as immoral and subhuman? Who would have ever thought young people would desert a party that ignored science and hectored on social issues? Who would ever have thought Latinos would scorn a party that expected them to finish up their chores and self-deport?
A-HENH.
Read it all here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/dowd-a-lost-civilization.html?src=recg
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
12:29 pm
“therefore costing taxpayers 46% less”
But still costing us right?
Lemme know when it ALL gets paid back. Ifn we’re all still alive at that point in time of course.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
12:31 pm
Doom — “Ya’ll do lemme know when we have to bail out these nonunionized plants down here to the tune of mega billions.”
What, you mean like the Kia plant in West Point (South Korea) or the Mercedes plant outside of Tuscaloosa (Germany)?
Why would we bail out another country’s company?
F
L
O
P
curious
December 11th, 2012
12:31 pm
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech…and earned it!
“Sinkwich,
It’s to help cover people with pre-existing conditions. Are you heartless?”
Based on his views expressed here, I’d say so.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
12:31 pm
I’ve found that those that are self annointed experts on swallowing also have an affinity for gerbils.
larry
December 11th, 2012
12:32 pm
Ya’ll do lemme know when we have to bail out these nonunionized plants down here to the tune of mega billions.
Boom ? Boom?
I know we are talking autos, but let us not forget about the huge bailout of Lockheed Martin in 1971. And by the way, why are all of these auto plants owned by foreign car companies, whose profits go back to their home coutries where they are headquartered ?
Could it be right-to-work laws ran off GM and Ford ?