The biggest scandal in 50 years, right before your eyes
If you start naming the biggest political scandals of the past 50 years, Watergate and Bill Clinton’s “I did not have sex with that woman” mistake would have to be included. So would Ronald Reagan’s decision to secretly trade arms for hostages, along with the mass deception and self-deception perpetrated by the Bush administration to get us into Iraq.
However, while presidents Nixon and Clinton were led astray by their weakness for power and sex, neither consciously put the security of the country at risk. Reagan made a serious mistake, but he was at least motivated by sincere concern for the lives of U.S. hostages. The invasion of Iraq is a closer call, but even there, President Bush and his administration weren’t consciously choosing to do damage to our country.
By that standard, the most disturbing political scandal of the past half century is playing out today before our very eyes, to too little notice or comprehension. Marc Thiessen, a former speechwriter for George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld and now a columnist for the Washington Post, lays the plot out there for everyone to see:
“Today, Obama is perfectly willing to go over the fiscal cliff and blame the GOP for the resulting tax increases on the middle class. But when it comes to the debt limit, he does not have that luxury. He can’t default on our debt — the consequences are too catastrophic. So in the end he will cave.
Indeed, he would have caved during the last debt-limit stand-off, in the summer of 2011. According to Bob Woodward, when Obama told his advisers he intended to veto the debt-limit bill the Republican-controlled House had passed, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner told him he couldn’t — that if Republicans didn’t give in, he had no choice but to sign their bill. “You can’t veto,” Geithner reportedly told Obama, because the consequences “would be indelible, incurable. It would last for generations.”
Republicans had Obama cornered and didn’t know it — so they let him off the hook. When the next debt-limit increase comes in February, they will know better. The president’s current negotiating leverage dissipates as soon as we go over the fiscal cliff. Come February, the tables will be turned — and Republicans will hold all the cards in the debt-limit negotiations.”
If I may, I would like to offer a pithier but still entirely accurate version of Thiessen’s advice to Republicans*:
That fool Obama cares too much about what happens to this country and its people. That is his fatal weakness. You, on the other hand, don’t care about “catastrophic” consequences that would be “indelible, incurable” and “last for generations.” Your amorality is your strength. Use it to demand what you want, or else.
Maybe it’s just me, but I find the whole idea extraordinary. Since when is the willingness to inflict “indelible, incurable” damage on our country something to be bragged about and used as leverage? Since when is it OK for a major political party to hold a gun to the country’s head, figuratively speaking of course? Has patriotism become so diluted by cynicism that such strategies can now be publicly embraced and advocated?
And of course, it’s not just some former speechwriter advocating this strategy. This is the course that the Washington Republican establishment seems ready to adopt. As Sen. Lindsey Graham told Fox Monday, “In February or March you have to raise the debt ceiling. And I can tell you this, there is a hardening on the Republican side. We’re not going to raise the debt ceiling.”
You’re not? What’s next? “We won’t pay the troops, even if it leaves the nation defenseless, unless you surrender to us on the budget?” How would that be substantively different?
Of course, Republicans have talked themselves into believing that this is all justified. They are so absolutely certain that they are correct about the budget that they are willing to knock the United States to its knees to get their way. It requires an enormous amount of self-righteousness and grandiosity to think that way, but they seem up to the task.
Somehow, it doesn’t seem to have crossed their minds that the U.S. Constitution offers an alternative means of resolving such disputes. It’s called free and open debate. It’s called elections. We just had one, focused largely on the issues at stake here; they spent well over $1 billion trying to sell their viewpoint, and they lost.
Now, having failed to convince the rest of their country of their wisdom, they believe that their desperation gives them the right to impose it under threat of grievous harm?
That isn’t leadership. That isn’t patriotism. It is the act of a petulant, frustrated three-year-old threatening to hold his breath until the country turns blue.
Which, now that I think about it, it may very well do.
– Jay Bookman
* A more risque, profane and metaphorical version of the strategy is available here.
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762 comments Add your comment
Owl
December 11th, 2012
10:05 am
What’s missing here is leadership.
And that is to be expected from our President first.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:05 am
Michigan’s right to work law will make a scab out of some new hires.
Michigan’s Right-To-Work law being peddled by the GOP is nothing more than government sanctioned freeloading. Funny that Republicans whine about freeloaders, yet they pass laws to encourage and propogate freeloading. The life of a Republican brain cell must be bliss. Doesn’t seem as though they get used at all sometimes.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
10:05 am
Stevie Ray: “I do think we are forever beyond balanced budget any how…”
Again, a balanced budget is a horrendous idea that would deeply destabilize the economic system. No serious economic theorist supports that idea. Not one. It’s a complete joke.
“this president is not going to cut spending…no matter what he agrees to…”
What in the world are you talking about, Stevie? Do you seriously not think this president is going to cut any spending? Have you been paying attention?
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
10:05 am
Unions have far outlived usefulness…are dying out…let them go.
but we need the skimmer class fo’evah because socialism.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:06 am
“Also threw Tommy Lee Jones in that one for you”
I saw! that was a great meme !!
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
10:06 am
There’s a time for negotiation, a time for compromise, and, a time for a speech
I’ve only seen one of the three so far…and it ain’t helping.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:07 am
” Unions have far outlived usefulness…are dying out…let them go.”
yay!! let’s bring back a race to the bottom for workers’ rights!!!
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:07 am
Unions have far outlived usefulness…are dying out…let them go.
Tell that to Germany…
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
10:07 am
Again, a balanced budget is a horrendous idea that would deeply destabilize the economic system.
and I think Stevie Ray is intelligent enough to know this, and the fact that he (and his soulmate “oops”, aka “jm”) continues to parrot this Beltway nonsense indicates there’s just no getting through to what’s on the other end.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:08 am
“There’s a time for negotiation, a time for compromise, and, a time for a speech”
turn … turn … turn.
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:09 am
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
9:55 am
No spending cuts put forth by President Trillions will ruin economic life as we know it…will definitely impact DC cash collections but to say “tailspin” is dramatic. He originally promised cuts on a philosophical basis…and proposed at one point workable 109 biln/year cuts…
Without cuts and assuming current anemic growth to continue, the deficit will continue at current levels and your guy will leave office and us with 20 trillion or so in debt..the debtor champion of all time..
oops
December 11th, 2012
10:09 am
“The biggest scandal in 50 years, right before your eyes”
Red meat for the socialists. Though I thought most of them were also vegetarians. Maybe there’s less venn diagram overlap there than I thought.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:10 am
S. Ray — “What is intellectual about manure?”
You have stumbled over the point, good sir.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
10:11 am
oops
Maybe the fainting couch is in Singapore…
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:12 am
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
10:07 am
I’m confused…balanced budget objective of some sort keeps focus on DC idiots being a zero’d in on expenses…by your other comments, it seems you think 80 bln a year from rich folks is plenty to make headway? Despite all the new stuff already committed to?
What is your position? Continue deficit spending and expect different results?
oops
December 11th, 2012
10:13 am
They BOTH suck
I would never go to Singapore. Not even for vacation. I prefer not to be caned.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:13 am
oops — “Red meat for the socialists. Though I thought most of them were also vegetarians. Maybe there’s less venn diagram overlap there than I thought.”
Perhaps you might learn more if you asked liberals more questions and leapt for fewer wild-eyed conclusions about them.
Seriously Folks
December 11th, 2012
10:13 am
Stevie Ray….please see my 9:36 post…nice little link in there for you…spare us the “without cuts” talking point..it is tiresome and EASILY refuted with one click of your mouse!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:14 am
” I prefer not to be caned.”
then don’t litter.
there.
see how easy that was?
oops
December 11th, 2012
10:14 am
“Maybe the fainting couch is in Singapore…”
Jay’s in Singapore? Weird. Obviously he’s a night owl.
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:15 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:10 am
Indeed…I have determined that intelligensia (self proclaimed of course) certainly, on both sides, come up with the answer before doing the work…I will continue my quest to connect the two beyond the use of bathroom gutter talk.
St Simons - aboriginal BOOTAKOOK 2014
December 11th, 2012
10:16 am
why is this bad?
this is the inevitable endgame of lie, distort, & fling poo.
Let them do their worst.
The People are Awake, and will wipe them out in 2014.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
10:17 am
Stevie Ray: “Unions have far outlived usefulness…are dying out…let them go..”
You realize that’s the exact same thing as saying “Living wages have far outlived their usefulness … are dying out .. let them go…” don’t you?
Not one iota of difference.
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
10:17 am
He originally promised cuts on a philosophical basis…
This was before the GOP lost in 2012.
(there’s also the little matter of those proposed cuts — especially the “entitlement [spit, gag] ‘reforms’” floated — being absolutely WRONG. Yes, this Obama-bot acknowledges that his Supreme Leader does stupid things sometimes. Kinky, huh?)
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
Will … could it be … THE MASONS???
stands for decibels
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
argh. Time suck take too much time. Must go. later!
lovelyliz
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
“Your amorality is your strength”
That’s the modern day GOP for you
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
balanced budget objective of some sort keeps focus on DC idiots being a zero’d in on expenses
A balanced budget objective also leaves no room for emergency expenditures. Imagine passing a balanced budget in October and then another terrorist attack happening in December. You gotta wait until next October to budget your response to that attack. Or, imagine a 8.0 earthquake along the New Madrid fault line happening within a budget year. How do you respond to that when you’re limiting yourself to a balanced budget that did not set aside emergency funding for such an event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone
In a report filed in November 2008, The U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency warned that a serious earthquake in the New Madrid Seismic Zone could result in “the highest economic losses due to a natural disaster in the United States,” further predicting “widespread and catastrophic” damage across Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and particularly Tennessee, where a 7.7 magnitude quake or greater would cause damage to tens of thousands of structures affecting water distribution, transportation systems, and other vital infrastructure.[22] The earthquake is expected to also result in many thousands of fatalities, with more than 4,000 of the fatalities expected in Memphis alone.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
S. Ray — “…I will continue my quest to connect the two beyond the use of bathroom gutter talk.”
If there’s manure in your house, then that’s bathroom’s more of a gutter than you think.
Road Scholar
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
Sinkwich: When are you leaving for Somalia?
SPC
December 11th, 2012
10:20 am
And how would you suggest we address the spending disease? It’s a problem with both parties, but it’s being made much worse now. This president, and most politicians, will only respond to leverage when it comes to fiscal responsibility.
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:20 am
Seriously Folks
December 11th, 2012
10:13 am
I have often referred to his proposal to cut spending…at least the workable one of 109bln/year. Love it..57% of this defense and balance finding more waste in entitlements. I know he has put this stuff forward…my point is that agreeing to them and making them happen in a useful time frame are two completely different things..teh DC incentives easily trump our interests in taking anything away from special interests..
nobodyyouknow
December 11th, 2012
10:20 am
It amazes me how the O’bama supporters including YOU Jay and your buddies in the media come up with all this B.S.. In case you didn’t get the message HE’S THE DAMN PRESIDENT! You make it look like the “poor man” has no say in this. To be perfectly honest I don’t trust any politician. Most all presidents in the past have worked with the other side. Yes, its dificult but they find a way. And I know the taxes on the wealthy must be increased. We all need to pay more. BUT JAY THEY MUST FIGURE OUT A WAY TO CUT BACK ON SPENDING. I’m in my 70’s and I will be willing to sacrifice some of my income to get us out of this awful debt. I’ve asked this before and got NO REPLY. JAY can you name one government program, entitlement or whatever that is not BROKE? ITs your job in the media to inform the readers of the responsibility and failures of our leaders in Washington. Not just the side you support but all sides. This country is in financial trouble BAD. And you and your peers need to get to reality. Stop your bias and write the FACTS on Democrats and Republicans!
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
10:24 am
Obama – the most victimized President in history…
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:24 am
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
10:17 am
Oh please….did you know that many who are not in unions make good money..often more than unions? They actually don’t intimidate employers extorting things like onerous pensions and post-retirement HC, job banks and the like…Unions biggest enemy is technology and themselves…there is no more guaranteed lifetime employment..
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:25 am
nobodyyouknow — “ITs your job in the media to inform the readers of the responsibility and failures of our leaders in Washington. Not just the side you support but all sides.”
You pretty clearly don’t understand that Jay’s an opinion columnist for the AJC. His ‘job in the media’ is to write opinion pieces, not to adhere to any particular reader’s notion of impartiality.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:25 am
“That fool Obama cares too much about what happens to this country and its people.”
Well if the fool cares so much about America so much then why has he allowed us to run up a staggering 6-7 trillion in new debt in just 4 years???
“You, on the other hand, don’t care about “catastrophic” consequences that would be “indelible, incurable” and “last for generations.”
Aaaah. So the people that don’t care like the tea party folk are the ones who’ve been protesting and screaming about the debt spendig for years now. But yet they don’t care? The people the most concerned about the debt are the ones that Jay claims don’t care? You gotta be kidding?
“Your amorality is your strength. Use it to demand what you want, or else.”
Speaking of morality didn’t Obama say on the campaign trail in 08 that it was immoral or unconsionable for us to run up some huge debt to the bank of China that our kids will have to pay back? Didn’t he say that that was unpatriotic, unAmerican? Didn’t this man say these things???
A Chicago style thug and morality? Seriously?
Oscar
December 11th, 2012
10:28 am
Lot of people are going to miss those social security checks and the army likes to get paid also. Disabled veterans.
No dredging of the Savannah River either.
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:30 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
OK since we must now go there, I have no manure inside my house….I can easily compete and likely more often than not defeat manure with my 50 year old reserve emissions…in fact, i control the ball so to speak. On any given day, I can dial up a continuum of characteristics….its like my effects guitar peddles….tone, crunch, echo, and the list goes on…
I don’t presume myself an intellectual…just have unhealthy relationship with numbers but no remotely part of intelligensia….that’s a self assigned moniker.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
10:30 am
I thought the stupidity low was already reached on this blog but seems we are doomed for even more lows. If only the conned scarecrows could get a brain, even if collectively they have to share it.
Hmmm, conned lecturing on patriotism while trying to secede at the same time…..
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:30 am
Stevie Ray @ 10:24
http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/COL33/312060264/
Of the 10 states with the highest per-capita incomes, for example, only one is a right-to-work state, and just three of the top 20 are. On average, right-to-work states have per-capita incomes that trail union states by more than $5,000.
Right-to-work advocates always claim their states are creating more jobs than union states — which holds some truth, if you just look at the sheer number of jobs created.
But of the 11 states with the fastest-growing economies as measured by gross domestic product, only three were right-to-work states in 2011. (Michigan was on that list in 2011, too, which Snyder spent all year this year bragging about. Now, suddenly, he claims our economy is being hobbled by an oppressive union environment.)
As a result, right-to-work states also suffer much worse poverty than union states, by several important measures.
Eight of the 10 states with the lowest overall per-capita incomes are right-to-work. And among the states with the highest rates of people without medical insurance (a sign of the quality of jobs available), seven of 10 are right-to-work. Eight of the 10 states with the highest poverty rates are right-to-work.
That’s coming from the same Detroit Free Press that endorsed Snyder for Governor…
Stevie Ray
December 11th, 2012
10:30 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:18 am
Of course, sustain is the real key peddle on my array of options..
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:31 am
“Speaking of morality didn’t Obama say on the campaign trail in 08 that it was immoral or unconsionable for us to run up some huge debt to the bank of China that our kids will have to pay back? ”
don’t know. did he? look it up. Teh Goog is your friend.
Madmax
December 11th, 2012
10:31 am
Jay,
Since you like tables, check this out http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200. Revenues have returned to pre-recessionary levels but unprecedented spending (both in ratios, absolute and current $) continues and this president refuses to put spending on the table. That is the ” act of a petulant, frustrated three-year-old threatening to hold his breath until the country turns blue.”
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:35 am
MadMax – um. yeah. I just looked at your link – revenues are nowhere near pre-recessionary levels.
in current dollars:
2011 = 2,303
2007 = 2,568
excluding inflation:
2011: 1,949
2007: 2,414
as a % of GDP:
2011: 15.4%
2007: 18.5%
which just makes me wonder … what are you smoking?
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:36 am
Obama- the victim president.
Dirty Dawg
December 11th, 2012
10:37 am
I think we should resort to the strategy I heard recently, namely that the Secretary of the Treasury has the legal authority to have coins minted out of platinum – he’s limited when it’s gold and/or silver – and to declare the value of said coins to be anything he wants. So, as the plan relates, he’ll have one coined made, declare its value to be a trillion dollars and give it to himself – the US, as it were. Either that or just ignore the damned a-hole Repugs in the House, and go on about the business of the country and see just what those pr!@ks will do about it.
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 11th, 2012
10:39 am
If the Unions are so great………….they wouldn’t need the State to FORCE people to join.
.
Coercion only attracts parasites.
.
See Fed.gov…………and those who are employed by said entity.
.
lol
oops
December 11th, 2012
10:40 am
leadership in action
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/u-punts-climate-change-action-again-170846578.html
St Simons - aboriginal BOOTAKOOK 2014
December 11th, 2012
10:40 am
i usually charge for spotting revenue streams, but the ajc should charge
Premier Radio Network by the word for publishing their transcripts heah.
Oscar
December 11th, 2012
10:41 am
The governemnt will find a way to keep operating, even without the debt ceiling being raised. It won’t be pretty. And may have to be resolved by the Supreme Court.
But the president can’t ignore our obligations.
oops
December 11th, 2012
10:42 am
the most powerful person in the country is a victim
very funny
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
10:42 am
Heywood, as usual drone wedding party kid, you don’t know what you are talking about. NO ONE in any state in this country is FORCED to join a union. That is current law.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:42 am
D. Dawg — “I think we should resort to the strategy I heard recently, namely that the Secretary of the Treasury has the legal authority to have coins minted out of platinum – he’s limited when it’s gold and/or silver – and to declare the value of said coins to be anything he wants. So, as the plan relates, he’ll have one coined made, declare its value to be a trillion dollars and give it to himself – the US, as it were.”
I think the bond and securities markets would listen to the announcement, laugh at it, and then move on.
josef
December 11th, 2012
10:44 am
Will Jones
“Th. Jefferson, a prophet, nailed it in his Jan. 19, 1810 letter to S. Kercheval: The same entity, manifest in their banker-frontmen Rothschild and Rockefeller-Bush, is attempting to again enslave mankind from which we revolted to receive in covenant this Promised Land.”
JAY
Is this who it sounds like?
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
10:46 am
Poor Republicans are gonna be so much poorer now that they have to actually pay back all their tax cuts and spending of borrowed money, with interest of course.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:48 am
Keep
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
10:48 am
@usinuk
Yes, these are directly related to Obama’s policies… Are you really that out of touch! Kinda sad.. But hey, you did say you were a child of public schooling…
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:49 am
“the most powerful person in the country is a victim”
someone evidently never took civics and learned that the President is not a King … checks and balances and all that, doncha know …
Adam
December 11th, 2012
10:49 am
You know what? Let them default. Let’s default and just not pay any troops and shut down the military, pay social security benefits for a couple of weeks, shut down Medicare except for people on life support or something, and pay mostly only the interest for a couple of weeks too.
Yes, this will suck and we will most certainly be downgraded and people will stop getting mail and chaos will ensue. But people will remember and the Republicans will be blamed and the Republicans will quickly undo their mistake. In the mean time, we will have reduced the deficit substantially and we can stop this “OBAMA BIG SPENDER” nonsense when the numbers come out. It will surely send the economy into a short recession too. The effect will be all the pressure will be on the Republicans to undo their mistake, and they will be voted out in 2014 for their trouble.
You don’t negotiate with hostage takers.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:50 am
“Yes, these are directly related to Obama’s policies”
you know, a quote so that I know what the hell you’re talking about would be helpful here.
oops
December 11th, 2012
10:50 am
“someone evidently never took civics and learned that the President is not a King … checks and balances and all that, doncha know …”
waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaa
keep cryin
sob the sob story
our poor wittle pwesident is just getting spanked
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 11th, 2012
10:51 am
No Scandel here————–
.
“NYT reports that the median net worth of a member of Congress climbed 15 percent from 2004 to 2010, to $913,000; meanwhile, the median net worth for all Americans dropped 8 percent over that same period, to roughly $100,000.”
.
Clearly…………..Barry…….and Washington needs more discretionary money to spend.
.
lol
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:51 am
“But hey, you did say you were a child of public schooling…”
oh, and, you obviously don’t know me … I’ve never said that … just the opposite, in fact.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:51 am
“Of the 10 states with the highest per-capita incomes, for example, only one is a right-to-work state, and just three of the top 20 are. On average, right-to-work states have per-capita incomes that trail union states by more than $5,000.”
Demographics and history has more to do with this than anything. State per capita incomes, wealth, etc. is something that has been built up over time. For example when Illinois, Ohio, and the northern states were all Republican led states they were in their ages of prosperity and the gap between these states and the Democrat controlled southern states was staggering. Its only in the past 50 years or so that many of these states have become decidedly blue for the most part and hence began a steady decline. Since then though the gap between the northern and southern states has become to narrow. Why? Because the Republican dominated northern states became D controlled and that is when they began to slide and the gap began to narrow.
The southern states were mired in poverty and backwardness under D control for a long, long time. But in the last few decades as they became R controlled they are now gaining jobs and gaining populations as the now D controlled northern states are losing jobs and populations. Still a long way to go to narrow a gap that’s been built up over a long, long time but its easy to open your eyes and see southern states grabbing up car mfging plants left and right while northern states like Illinois continue to bleed and decay.
The key is not looking at what states have in terms of wealth or income which was built up over a long time. The key is looking at the current trends of jobs growth, population growth, unemployment, etc. The trend is your friend. And the trend clearly shows that right to work states are gaining jobs and population relative to their unionized blue state counterparts.
guy
December 11th, 2012
10:53 am
Aquagirl, Let’s just go communist and everyone will be equal. No profit margins needed except for government leaders. So simple!
Jay
December 11th, 2012
10:53 am
It was, Josef. Emphasis on WAS.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:54 am
““someone evidently never took civics and learned that the President is not a King … checks and balances and all that, doncha know …”
waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaa
keep cryin
sob the sob story”
um. yeah. you might want to pace yourself on this late-morning boozing of yours. no one here is crying, just correcting your erroneous assertions.
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 11th, 2012
10:54 am
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
10:42 am
Heywood, as usual drone wedding party kid, you don’t know what you are talking about. NO ONE in any state in this country is FORCED to join a union. That is current law.
.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
.
I stand corrected.
You are only “forced” to join the Union if you wish to work in your chosen field and that particular field has the STATE-backed Union representing it.
.
Sorry……………..my bust.
.
lol.
.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
10:54 am
oops — “our poor wittle pwesident is just getting spanked”
Sure doesn’t look that way. Looks more to me like a bunch of bitter cons are upset that the American people rejected their candidate and their ideas about a month ago.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 11th, 2012
10:55 am
BRO @ 1030,
I also like what the Free press said here…
Two years ago, a newly elected Rick Snyder told the Free Press editorial board he was determined to be a new kind of governor — a pragmatist focused like a laser on initiatives that promised to raise standards of living for all Michiganders.
And until last week, we believed him.
For two years, we supported Snyder as he took painful steps to restore Michigan’s fiscal stability and confront a crisis in which plunging tax revenues and mounting obligations to retired workers threatened to cripple the state’s cities and school districts.
We criticized the governor for signing legislation that burdened a woman’s right to choose, condoned discrimination against gays, and beggared colleges and universities to pay for business tax cuts.
But we also indulged many compromises Snyder maintained were necessary to advance his pro-growth agenda. And when ideologues on the right and left mounted campaigns designed to hamstring state government by limiting its authority to raise revenues, regulate labor relations, and fund critically needed infrastructure, we joined the governor in opposing them.
In short, we trusted Snyder’s judgment.
That trust has now been betrayed — for us, and for the hundreds of thousand of independents who voted for Snyder with the conviction that they were electing someone more independent, and more visionary, than partisan apparatchiks like Wisconsin’s Scott Walker or Florida’s Rick Scott.
Last week, in an abrupt about-face Snyder’s defenders said was born of his frustration with organized labor, the governor unleashed a legislative blitzkrieg that seems certain to bring a bill barring closed-shop contracts to his desk next week.
He has already promised to sign it.
Watching Snyder explain his right-to-work reversal was disturbing on several levels.
His insistence that the legislation was designed to promote the interests of unionized workers and “bring Michiganders together” was grotesquely disingenuous; even as he spoke, security personnel were locking down the capital in anticipation of protests by angry unionists.
Snyder’s ostensible rationale for embracing right-to-work legislation — it was, he insisted, a matter of preserving workers’ freedom of association — was equally dishonest.
The real motive of Michigan’s right-to-work champions, as former GOP legislator Bill Ballenger ruefully observed, is “pure greed” — the determination to emasculate, once and for all, the Democratic Party’s most reliable source of financial and organizational support.
Off track for a better state
Michigan voters have never trusted business interests or organized labor to govern Michigan unilaterally, and they have been appropriately wary of schemes to secure a permanent advantage for either side. Thus the ignominious demise of Proposal 2, which a majority of voters correctly perceived as an attempt not just to tip the scales of labor negotiations in unions’ favor, but to lock them there for decades to come.
Snyder and other critics of Proposal 2 called it an overreach — and we agreed, even when proponents warned that Snyder and his Republican legislative allies would move to crush the labor movement if the voters rejected Proposal 2.
Nonsense, we assured them — Gov. Snyder is smarter than that. Too many of Snyder’s higher priorities would be jeopardized, we reasoned, if he picked a needless fight over right-to-work.
Our reasoning was sound, and it remains so. What we miscalculated was Snyder’s resolve to buck his own party’s most irrational ideologues and keep his eye on the main prize: a better Michigan.
It’s all about politics
Like the failed labor initiative it seeks to avenge, Snyder’s right-to-work legislation is an attempt to institutionalize Republicans’ current political advantage. Everything else is window dressing, and most of these diversionary talking points are demonstrably false.
The argument that right-to-work status makes states more competitive or prosperous is refuted by a mountain of evidence that shows right-to-work states trailing their union-friendly counterparts in key metrics like per capita wealth, poverty rates and health insurance coverage.
Snyder’s contention that workers’ First Amendment rights are compromised when a union they have freely elected to bargain on their behalf proposes a contract making union dues compulsory is equally specious. Employees are always free to reject such a contract or decertify the union that negotiated it, just as stockholders can force the ouster of corporate managers they deem unresponsive to their needs.
Snyder has long acknowledged that steamrolling right-to-work legislation through the Legislature would have enduring negative consequences for productive collaboration between workers and employees. His decision to embrace such legislation now destroys, in an eye blink, the trusting relationship he and his business allies have struggled to establish.
It also yokes a governor who once aspired to be seen as a new kind of Republican with the most ideological, backward-looking elements of that party — the very people whose exclusionary vision of the country’s future was rejected by voters in last month’s election.
Trust betrayed
Snyder’s closest brush with candor came when he suggested that his endorsement of right-to-work was less than voluntary — a decision “that was on the table whether I wanted it to be on the table or not.”
But that is less an excuse than a confession that Michigan’s governor has abdicated his leadership responsibilities to Republican legislators bent on vengeance.
What reasonable person now believes that Snyder has the will or the wherewithal to deliver Michigan, or even his own party, from the failed politics of division?
Michigan voters who provided Snyder’s margin of victory in 2010 feel betrayed, and they have every justification. If he was ever serious about being the governor who brought Michiganders together, Snyder has just sent himself back to Square One.
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
10:56 am
@usinuk
Walmart is only the beginning. Companies are cutting people and will continue to cut… The medical industry will never be the same… and all this is only the tip of the iceberg.. All this is due to Obama’s policies… The biggest scandal is re electing this president… Period.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:57 am
“Yes, this will suck and we will most certainly be downgraded and people will stop getting mail and chaos will ensue.”
I pay my bills online and most of the mail I get is junk mail. And for birthdays and Christmas most of my friends and family send me them cute little evite cards and such. The postal service is not missed in the Doomy household. If I want to mail a package I’ll use UPS or my Fedex account. I learned my mistake last January when I mailed a package priority mail from here to Montgomery which is a 3 hour drive. I dropped it off on a Friday morning and figured it would get there Monday in time for her birthday if I sent it priority mail. It got there Tuesday. Priority mail and it took 3 days to go 3 hours. No thanks. I’ll use my Fedex ground account next time.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:58 am
The key is not looking at what states have in terms of wealth or income which was built up over a long time. The key is looking at the current trends of jobs growth, population growth, unemployment, etc. The trend is your friend. And the trend clearly shows that right to work states are gaining jobs and population relative to their unionized blue state counterparts.
You could have saved a lot of bandwidth by simply saying “It’s the Dems fault”. However, that huge dissertation that you wrote is not something I wouldn’t have expected from you.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
10:58 am
Stevie Ray: “Oh please….did you know that many who are not in unions make good money..often more than unions?”
Sure, a few layers of upper management and the highly skilled. But what about the average worker? Their ability to survive, let alone live a prosperous life, is quickly vanishing.
“Unions biggest enemy is technology and themselves…there is no more guaranteed lifetime employment”
Sure there is, for members of the plutocracy, who are busy every second amassing astronomical wealth as they ruthlessly attack the living standards of average workers.
And YOU and people like you are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
10:59 am
Hmmm … first of all, you’re confusing the insurance industry with the medical industry – they are two VERY different businesses. secondly, the insurance industry is reaping a BONANZA with people being forced to buy coverage –
lastly, as for WalMart – they have traditionally kept people at 38 hours/week and called it “part time” to avoid paying bennies … this isn’t news, it’s SOP for the SOBs.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:00 am
Stevie Ray
I have lots of family in Michigan, and the people who voted Snyder thinking he was more of a centrist are starting to get upset with him. I read that editorial from the Free Press, and I couldn’t believe they went after him like that. I understand though, when you trust someone like that and they do a complete 180 on you.
josef
December 11th, 2012
11:02 am
JAY
Thought so.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
11:02 am
There is a reason why Michigan’s car industry has imploded and Detroit is the site of filming for Hollywood apocalypse movies. And there is a reason why Alabama, Tenn, Georgia, and South Carolia have been adding car mfging plants. Too bad the libs can’t seem to figure it out.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
11:03 am
Thulsa Doom:
“And the trend clearly shows that right to work states are gaining jobs and population relative to their unionized blue state counterparts IN A RACE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE ECONOMIC HEAP“.
That’s the important little detail you left off there.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:03 am
WalMart and how they treat employees
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/story/2012-06-05/walmart-workers-air-complaints/55450634/1
Madmax
December 11th, 2012
11:03 am
Usink – aside from the fact that you cherry picked the highest rate of spending in the 8 years- please – the issue is spending is at extreme levels, we keep spending at unprecedented rates – spending is at the highest measure of any administration at anytime in our recent history while revenues have returned to Clinton Bush era levels.
using current $ up 32%
using inflation adjusted up 30%
using percent of GDP up 23%
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
11:05 am
@usinuk
I am not confused about anything, other than the fact that this country just re elected a total IDIOT… We may not recover from this President… But hey, we get what we vote for…. Have a great day…
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:06 am
Madmax – I picked the highest rate of spending … in what?
Ronald Reagan
December 11th, 2012
11:07 am
While you are crossing bridges let’s not forget about Senator Kennedy’s great bridge crossing murder, Obama’s “Fast & Furious” bloody coverup & his latest Benghazi (I hope it won’t affect my election) coverup!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:07 am
Hmmm … you seem confused about a lot of things … you must be suffering from a terminal ODS condition where you see socialists under every bed …
Adam
December 11th, 2012
11:13 am
Doomy: The postal service is not missed in the Doomy household.
Well GOOD FOR YOU *golf clap*
I don’t suppose you bothered to check what would happen if you left a package at UPS or FedEx as they were closing on Friday, did you?
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
11:14 am
LOL…. very funny… Time will tell usinuk…. not confused about anything, I am very capable of making educated assessments… But you keep drinking the grape juice, as things will correct, no matter how many illiterates voted this guy into office …
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
11:15 am
“secondly, the insurance industry is reaping a BONANZA with people being forced to buy coverage –”
Not really. Not in terms of profit margin anyway. Margins are pretty thin on health insurance companies profits. But you are right in one aspect though. Because rates are expected to rise substantially as a result of Obamacare hospitalization deductibles will correspondingly rise. Which means that a lot of higher margin filler policies such as indemnity and critical illness policies will be sold to help fill in the gap. That’s some serious margin for Doomy and company.
“lastly, as for WalMart – they have traditionally kept people at 38 hours/week and called it “part time” to avoid paying bennies … this isn’t news, it’s SOP for the SOBs.”
Got proof of that? Cause it sure doesn’t jive with what I see with my very own eyes when I look at Walmart employees benefits. I deal with a number of Walmart employees since we’ve had Medicare kiosks set up in plenty of Walmarts over the last several years. Their group health plan is actually pretty good relative to a lot of other employer group plans I’ve seen. $1750 deductible which is reasonable and relatively reasonable copays. I have a Walmart employee right now that is transitioning to Medicare. His copay to see a psychiatrist is $14 on his walmart plan. I think he gets a break from his psych on the copay but I’m not sure if its because of him being a Walmart employee or because obviously he is not high income working as a cashier at Walmart. Regardless, on his Medicare plan his copay will be $35 so his copay under his Walmart plan was better. So the idea that Walmart does not provide benefits is just not true.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
11:16 am
no matter how many illiterates voted this guy into office …
How would they know.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:16 am
” not confused about anything, I am very capable of making educated assessments”
all evidence to the contrary.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
11:16 am
Poor Republicans are gonna be so much poorer now that they have to actually pay back all their tax cuts and spending of borrowed money, with interest of course.
ummm…everyone will pay not just the poor republicans
TP how much will your taxes increase if we go off the cliff?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
11:16 am
Heywood: You are only “forced” to join the Union if you wish to work in your chosen field and that particular field has the STATE-backed Union representing it. .
Heywood, again you are wrong (see Taft-Hartley) but what can we expect from someone who claims the President is using drones to attack WI wedding parties….. come back when you know what you are talking about. We’re laughing at you again.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:18 am
There is a reason why Michigan’s car industry has imploded and Detroit is the site of filming for Hollywood apocalypse movies. And there is a reason why Alabama, Tenn, Georgia, and South Carolia have been adding car mfging plants. Too bad the libs can’t seem to figure it out.
Libs can’t figure out your imaginary world because libs can’t imagine stuff like that…
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
Sales and Share of Total Market by Manufacturer
General Motors Corp.
YTD Sales: 2,349,984
Marketshare: 17.9%
Ford Motor Company
YTD Sales: 2,030,107
Marketshare: 15.5%
Chrysler LLC
YTD Sales: 1,499,420
Marketshare: 11.4%
Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc.
YTD Sales: 1,888,361
Marketshare: 14.4%
American Honda Motor Co Inc.
YTD Sales: 1,290,011
Marketshare: 9.8%
Nissan North America Inc.
YTD Sales: 1,042,366
Marketshare: 7.9%
I could keep on listing, but no other manufacturer has more than 5% of the marketshare. Seems as though somebody would do a bit of research before claiming others can’t figure something out. Google is quite easy to figure out, and it can get you the information you need to not embarass yourself. There was also a recent news article that talked about how car sales were the highest in about 5 years I think. Nobody’s imploding other than those who rely on rhetoric as opposed to facts.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
11:19 am
One provision of the ACA limits the amount that insurance companies can skim off the premiums to 15 or 20%, I believe. I think it should be more like 5 to 10% max.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
11:19 am
Hmmmmm:”But you keep drinking the grape juice, as things will correct, no matter how many illiterates voted this guy into office …”
A little racist jab there under cover of anonymity?
How about the biggest “illiterates” of all, the economic illiterates who cast their votes dutifully for Romney despite his program’s attack on their very conditions of life?
Hmmmmmmm
December 11th, 2012
11:19 am
@Thulsa
When has FACT ever mattered to usinuk… Just like all the rest of these puppets….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
11:20 am
You would think that someone who is a self-proclaimed economic genius would comprehend that: (1) profits are not the same as profit margins and (2) citing medical benefit coverage for full time employees does not support an argument that part time employees are getting benefits.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 11th, 2012
11:20 am
“Not really. Not in terms of profit margin anyway. Margins are pretty thin on health insurance companies profits. ”
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/14/business/14health.html
and more recently
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705396894/Health-insurance-companies-profits-increase-after-affordable-care-act.html?pg=all
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
11:21 am
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/november-new-car-sales-highest-in-nearly-five-years-2012-12-10
U.S. new car sales in November rose 15% year-over-year to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 15.54 million. Compared with October, sales rose 4.7% to 1.14 million units sold according to data released today by Truecar.com.
General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) led the parade with sales of more than 186,500 units, down 4.7% sequentially but up 3.4% for compared with November 2011. Ford Motor Co. (NYSE: F) finished second, with over 177,000 units sold, up 5.4% sequentially and 6.4% compared with last year. Toyota Motor Corp. (NYSE: TM) sold nearly 162,000 units, up 4.2% from October and 17.2% year-over-year and Chrysler sales topped 122,000 units, down 2.9% from October but up 14.4% year-over-year.
GM, Ford, Toyota, and Chrysler remain the top four carmakers measured by market share as well, with 16.3%, 15.5%, 14.1%, and 10.7%, respectively.