GOP leading a crusade with very few followers
Poll after poll is reporting the same basic finding: the American people are worried about the deficit, but they do not support cutting Medicare or Medicaid, nor do they back raising the Medicare eligibility age to 67.
The latest survey to confirm that finding comes from McClatchy/Marist. As you can see, the voters in the chart above oppose cutting Medicare by a 42-point margin and oppose Medicaid cuts by a similar margin. By an almost 2-1 margin, they also say it is more important to compromise than to stand on principle.
But here’s the twist: The numbers in the chart above are all from voters who self-identified as Republicans. There’s not an independent or Democrat among ‘em. And overall, the level of support or opposition among GOP voters is not that different from voters in general. On the issue of Medicare cuts, for example, just 26 percent of Republican voters support the idea, compared to 23 percent of voters in general.
So again, if Republicans in Washington want to march off the fiscal cliff for the cause of slashing entitlements, and more importantly, if they want to push the country into default by refusing to raise the debt ceiling unless entitlements are slashed, they may turn around and discover that the little parade that they’re trying to lead has very few followers.
– Jay Bookman
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487 comments Add your comment
getalife
December 11th, 2012
4:40 pm
Scorched earth ideology causes depressions.
See the EU for proof.
Butch Cassidy (I)
December 11th, 2012
4:43 pm
Did you include the party faithful here on your blog? That should give the GOP at least 10 more followers for the parade.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 11th, 2012
4:43 pm
JAY
Can you say duh? I thought I was master of the obvious…why would anyone want cuts? The real question is, how many of those identified as GOP have a clue and are tuned into the real issues?
Good, we should give your idol everything he asks for…or nothing at all. I’d prefer the former so you blind left sheep will actually have meaningful metrics to live up to..that thougth must be scary..
You have proven something in many of your recent posts that we all know, the GOP is a mess…but this one is particularly weak…can you direct me to the precise questions that were used in this poll?
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
4:44 pm
the right thing is not always the popular thing..
get – congrats on the new pony
ATL Tiger
December 11th, 2012
4:44 pm
The ‘fiscal cliff’ is the right path to go down. We get both tax increases as well as spending cuts.
Jay
December 11th, 2012
4:47 pm
Follow the link, Stevie Ray.
DownInAlbany
December 11th, 2012
4:47 pm
President Obama claims we need a “balanced approach” to solve our nation’s budget mess, but it’s hard to get there when he keeps taking spending cuts off the table. Late yesterday, the White House announced that it no longer supported cutting Medicaid by $100 billion over the next ten years. It was a spending cut Obama had offered earlier in deficit negotiations.
I guess he saw the poll.
getalife
December 11th, 2012
4:47 pm
“The numbers in the chart above are all from voters who self-identified as Republicans.”
That is amazing.
I don’t want no stinking pony.
I want to go to the Pink Pony
Cutty
December 11th, 2012
4:48 pm
So the ‘real freeloaders’ finally stood up and announced themselves.
Aquagirl
December 11th, 2012
4:49 pm
how many of those identified as GOP have a clue and are tuned into the real issues?
If they don’t agree with Stevie Ray they’re clueless and not tuned in. Of course.
Next up: the questions were loaded. After that: no True Republicans were included in this poll.
That should get Stevie Ray through a couple of hours of hollering.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
4:49 pm
Tiger – I’d prefer not to send an additional $12k of my “fair share” to the govt because someone wants to make a political point
Get Real
December 11th, 2012
4:50 pm
Not sure of your point Jay, maintaining current spending levels will have this country in default in the very near future, to believe otherwise is blatant stupidity. ..is that what you are supporting????
DownInAlbany
December 11th, 2012
4:51 pm
74% also oppose tax increase for everyone (page 13). No cuts, no tax increase. Looks like we have a statemate?
larry
December 11th, 2012
4:52 pm
The real question is, how many of those identified as GOP have a clue and are tuned into the real issues?
Why did they vote GOP if they knew that they were wanting to cut Medicaid and Medicare? Didn’t they know that the Ryan budget was adopted by the Romney campaign.
Bumfuzzelzes the crap out of me.
skipper
December 11th, 2012
4:53 pm
Jay,
What? I agree with you on something? (Besides your choice of music, which by and large is great!)
I do not want the Medicare age raised to 67..period! I worked hard for years, and feel as this is something earned, not given. I have been pumping into the system since I was a kid, and while some programs that are under or non-performing do need to go, some are a lifeline. Keep it at 65………..I ain’t there, but I do not have as far to go as I have been….by a long shot!
ATL Tiger
December 11th, 2012
4:55 pm
“Tiger – I’d prefer not to send an additional $12k of my “fair share” to the govt because someone wants to make a political point”
I’d too not prefer to send any additional funds to the govt, but the reality of the situation is that we have +$1trillion budget deficit and +$16trillion in debt. We all enjoy the freedoms and liberties of being Americans, and we all must also bare the responsibilities and obligations that come with that great honor.
Darwin
December 11th, 2012
4:55 pm
Oh gosh, numerous surveys show that voters who want smaller government are against cutting all popular social programs as well as defense. These people want less government but have no idea where the government spending comes from. Waste Fraud Abuse? That’s always a good one. Most of these people are simply against welfare and food stamps. If we eliminated those programs, they could care less about government spending. Sorry – but it’s true.
larry
December 11th, 2012
4:56 pm
I know, i know, voting againist your best interest. Glad to see its not just a southern thing.
td
December 11th, 2012
4:57 pm
This poll shows me that the majority of the American population has either been brainwashed by the libs and their propaganda machine (Main stream Media), do not understand the basic fundamentals of the economy or are just plain dumb.
We can not continue to borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spend and we can not tax our way to prosperity.
There is going to be a major rude awakening in the next few years in this country.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 11th, 2012
4:58 pm
Hmmmm…60% no college, 68% over 45…..why is everyone pre-occupied with blame? They are both to blame…why is this a big issue other than a ruse president trillions will use to keep from any responsibility whatsoever for anything negative…he’s a joke in that fashion..
Do you really take this as evidence of anything? I guess your are suggesting that we should not cut any entitlement programs despite the question not posed…”do you think there is waste in the application of Medicare, Medicaid, and SS?
The one about counting the already known savings to wind down wars is humorous…..stupid question really…we all know BO and his pals really don’t want to cut anything if possible..despite follies to the contrary….Give your idol everything he wants…..does that scare you? Having real measures of success in terms of borrowing, deficits, and debt accumulation?
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 11th, 2012
5:00 pm
skipper
December 11th, 2012
4:53 pm
At what cost are you willing to keep age where it is? You do realize where the difference will be made up..don’t you. What sacrifices are you willing to make to arrest the ugly fiscal trends?
Banner123
December 11th, 2012
5:01 pm
Jay,
Although i disagree with you on about everything you say. I agree that we (as a people) can’t have it both ways (i.e. make cuts but not to my program mentality). I also agree it needs to be balanced and that we need to compromise. Here is what I propose.
1. Prove you can cut spending FIRST. 5% cuts across the board on ALL (including entitlement spendings).
2. After you have proved you can cut speding for a year. Let the top and bottom rates go back to the Clinton Era tax rates. This will get the 2% democrats want and will also broadent the tax base.
I think a lot of people are like me. PROVE to me you can cut spending and then raise the taxes.
Jay, if you were king for a day. what would you do?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:01 pm
This poll shows me that the majority of the American population has either been brainwashed by the libs and their propaganda machine (Main stream Media), do not understand the basic fundamentals of the economy or are just plain dumb.
Musta missed this part: But here’s the twist: The numbers in the chart above are all from voters who self-identified as Republicans.
Reading is fun-da-mental.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
5:02 pm
Tiger –
Agree, if I thought it would be used responsibly and actually address the debt and deficit issues, I wouldn’t mind so much….
do you know how much more your taxes will increase if we go over the cliff?
Tman
December 11th, 2012
5:04 pm
Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is not what got us this close to default. Spending more than we can afford is what did.
indigo
December 11th, 2012
5:05 pm
Big Business is telling their puppets what to think on this and every issue. Under NO circumstances do they want their huge salaries and golden parachutes affected. Reducing Medicare and Medicade is one way to keep the top 2% from paying a fair share tax. It’s clear the sociopaths on Wall Street will glady see the middle-class and poor suffer as long as they can enjoy continuing to enrich their personal estates.
Aquagirl
December 11th, 2012
5:06 pm
Musta missed this part: But here’s the twist: The numbers in the chart above are all from voters who self-identified as Republicans.
Oh, but those people aren’t REAL Republicans. Real Republicans always agree with the individual Republican poster on this blog, whoever that may be at the moment.
getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:07 pm
No wonder the speaker will not list his cuts.
Nero
December 11th, 2012
5:08 pm
There will be no deal because all Obama and the Dems want is tax increases with no spending cuts. It’s not balanced and won’t do anything except satisfy heir base craving for more revenue to spend, as well as just kick the problem further down the road. Going over the Cliff looks better and better as each day passes. Maybe instead of going to Michigan and kissing the ring of the unions, Obama should be focusing trying to cut a deal. But it will never happen. Spread the pain and be done with it. The country will adapt and be in better shape in the long term
JP
December 11th, 2012
5:08 pm
Here’s a little common sense, guys. If the government brings in about $2.2 trillion in tax revenue a year, then that is a maximum amount it SHOULD be spending (actually it should be spending less than that amount in order to pay for emergency expenditures…and create a surplus, a savings even). This is how adults are expected to budget their households…you spend less than you make! Nothing complicated about that. Why are we holding the government to a different standard? The government HAS to stop spending more money than is being taken in. It would be insanity if I spent three times my salary, and didn’t expect to go bankrupt. Omerika will eventually be forced to bite the bullet and make cuts across the board, even to precious entitlements.
emo
December 11th, 2012
5:10 pm
If the republicans who want to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security would just renounce them and no longer take that dirty Federal money, the budget would be balanced in a minute.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
5:10 pm
indigo – Big Business is telling their puppets what to think on this and every issue.
your Kool-Aid is better that their Kool-Aid eh?
Babatunde
December 11th, 2012
5:11 pm
Medicare and Social Security eligibility ages should be routinely, incrementally increasing over time – not because of the latest budget panic but because of the reality that people are healthier and are working and living longer (a lady over here in my neck of the woods recently died @116).
fedup
December 11th, 2012
5:11 pm
Rich folks taxes should go to cover the budget. They had their tax cuts and the budget shortfall was covered by borrowing from SS and who knows what. I want my money back from the rich folks.
saywhat?
December 11th, 2012
5:11 pm
Since according to Stevie Ray, none of these voters “identified as GOP have a clue” or “are tuned into the real issues” (the same thing Democrats have been saying for years, by the way), lets just put the progressive caucus’s 2012 budget plan up for serious consideration, with non-stop super PAC marketing, but name it “The Fox News Real Conservative Plan for America”. We’ll get bipartisan support, a more balanced budget, and following the will of the people, it won’t be done at the expense of the old, the sick, the poor, and children.
larry
December 11th, 2012
5:11 pm
Let’s see , we pay seprately for Medicare/Social Security and we also pay a federal income tax.
But the only thing i hear from the right is cutting entitlement programs that we pay seprately for.
Let’s try cutting programs that our federal income TAX funds first, like that bloaded pentagon budget.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:11 pm
This is how adults are expected to budget their households…
Adults aren’t childish enough to compare a household budget to the national budget.
Nothing complicated about that.
Mr Right
December 11th, 2012
5:12 pm
Just checking in to see what it is about the GOP Jay is bashing now and yep, here it is, right on time!
indigo
December 11th, 2012
5:13 pm
Erwin’s cat – 5:10
I know you think that’s humorous but I’ve heard funnier things than that in a room full of pregnant nuns.
Nero
December 11th, 2012
5:13 pm
There will be no spending cuts because the Dems don’t have the votes to pass them, thus no deal. The spineless Republicans will cave on the tax increases but any deal will be scuttled when Dems balk at but vague and future spending cuts. Sequestration is coming. Prepare yourselves.
skipper
December 11th, 2012
5:13 pm
@Stevie Ray,
Aid to idiots like Pakistan, etc. would be a start! We have way too much foreign aid, especially to some places where strategically it is not impportant to us at all. Much of that is a start……we don’t need to send money to a terrorist nasty group of folks so we can use their country as a springboard. Either bust’em or leave them alone. The money could be spent better over here……..google up all the places we send aid to, especially those who hate us. Many of them will never like us no matter what we do.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
5:14 pm
fedup – They had their tax cuts and the budget shortfall was covered by borrowing from SS and who knows what.
you had your tax cuts too
Jay
December 11th, 2012
5:15 pm
If I were king, Banner?
I would do a variety of things. On taxes, I would raise high-income taxes immediately, and over a six-year period gradually raise taxes for the rest of us back to Clinton-era levels.
I would give the government the power to negotiate drug prices and allow the importation of drugs from overseas, to cut costs. I would means test Medicare to a degree, putting higher copays on those able to afford it. I would raise the income cap on Social Security payroll taxes and adopt the chained inflation index to slow the increase in benefits for upper-end recipients.
I would cut defense.
I would significantly lower Medicare reimbursements to physicians and hospitals; physician income in this country is significantly higher than in the rest of the industrialized world.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/
To compensate the med community and avoid a doc shortage, I’d greatly increase public support for med-school tuition, to lower barriers of entry and to ensure that they don’t graduate with such huge loans to repay. That’s some stuff off the top of my head.
Oh, and if I were king? I’d arrange to get Sofia Vergara’s phone number.
getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:15 pm
“‘gop sends a new counter offer to our President’s proposal.” cnn.
Horrible reporting with no details.
Man, cnn has gone down the drain.
Ken
December 11th, 2012
5:16 pm
Democrats ball now. Home run or same old strike out.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:16 pm
Oh, and if I were king? I’d arrange to get Sofia Vergara’s phone number.
Heh, heh, heh.
Erwin's cat
December 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
indigo
unfortunately no i don’t think it’s funny….i think it’s ironic that you criticize puppets
Meanwhile....
December 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
Obama Told Woodward That The Democrat Position On Medicare Was “Untenable”: “But I Also Told Them It’s An Untenable Position To Say, We’re Not Going To Do Anything On Medicare And Medicaid When That’s One Of The Biggest Drivers Of Our Budget Deficit.”
http://rncresearch.tumblr.com/post/32802821860/woodward-obama-demagogues-medicare-publicly-while
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
Republicans seem very confused these days…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ogpxaaQ9o0
getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:18 pm
“I’d arrange to get Sofia Vergara’s phone number.”
I hope your wife does not read this blog.
You pulled a Bruno and his better half did read the blog.
Fly-On-The-Wall
December 11th, 2012
5:18 pm
I see both sides of the issue but I believe that just plain cutting the so-called entitlements isn’t the first step to take. Return the tax rates for the top 2% to the Clinton era levels. Wait 6 months to a year to see the revenue stream while working out entitlement reform via savings and not just cuts. It can done – companies do this all the time.
It is easy to call for cuts but it takes real leadership to do the hard work.
Jay
December 11th, 2012
5:20 pm
Mrs. B has an excellent sense of humor, getalife, as 32 years of marriage has demonstrated.
saywhat?
December 11th, 2012
5:21 pm
“getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:18 pm
“I’d arrange to get Sofia Vergara’s phone number.”
I hope your wife does not read this blog.
————————————————
He meant to write “…. so my wife could call her and talk about cooking, world travel, and lady stuff”.
Mr Right
December 11th, 2012
5:21 pm
Wasn’t that the Dems that cut a humous amount out of Medicade or Medicare or whatever without a single Republican vote! Come on Jay blast them for that!
Ben Shockley
December 11th, 2012
5:21 pm
“GOP leading a crusade with very few followers”
Well, very few except for the 48% of the national electorate who voted for Romney, anyway.
Jjay, the constant drumbeat from you and the rest of the liberal Debbie Wasserman Schultz pawns that republicans/Conservatives are a fringe extremist minority is not only wrong and ridiculous, it is quite frankly getting pretty boring as well.
josef
December 11th, 2012
5:22 pm
LE ROI
@ 5:15
Why not just say, I’d nationalize the health care industry and be done with it?
Georgia
December 11th, 2012
5:23 pm
Greenspan on Closing Bell, “I’ve never seen anything like this”. (Red and Blue don’t talk after hours anymore like in the old days cause there no overlapping fundamental beliefs or interests). He thinks there’ll be a deal, but hard won. Boehner has little control over caucus members who think they have a mandate cause their election victory margins were better than the presidents. He said there’s never been such a spread between thirty year treasury yield and five year treasury notes, which will keep unemployment high, (long term uncertainty about certain asset class investments). Thinks housing has bottomed. but warns about how volitility index gets too low and nobody sees disruption coming.
Ding dong the wicked witch...
December 11th, 2012
5:23 pm
Michigan lawmakers pass bills weakening union power
Jay
December 11th, 2012
5:23 pm
In other words, Ben, you have no rational response to the information presented here, so you sulk.
Ben Shockley
December 11th, 2012
5:23 pm
” I would raise the income cap on Social Security payroll taxes and adopt the chained inflation index to slow the increase in benefits for upper-end recipients.”
Jay would make Social Security just another income transfer/welfare program, in other words….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:24 pm
Leroy boy, is that you?
fedup
December 11th, 2012
5:24 pm
Erwin: Not as mch as the rich folks. Take a look at theirtax forms and their numerous deductions. It will blow your mind.
Lanteesha
December 11th, 2012
5:25 pm
“I would means test Medicare to a degree, putting higher copays on those able to afford it.”
Medicare is already means tested. The base monthly Part B premium in 2013 is $105; depending on income it goes up to $260.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
5:26 pm
Benji…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auDv6cf2PBM
Ben Shockley
December 11th, 2012
5:26 pm
“In other words, Ben, you have no rational response to the information presented here, so you sulk.”
Present some rational opinions, and you might be surprised at how rational the responses become.
By the way, you consider your lib regulars to be rational, i.e. getalife, JamVet, Kamchak, etc?
LOL
Joe Hussein Mama
December 11th, 2012
5:27 pm
Jay — “Oh, and if I were king? I’d arrange to get Sofia Vergara’s phone number.”
Do you say you will fight me for her, then? (thumps chest)
getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:27 pm
Jay,
Mine was the jealous type.
“Boehner spokesman Michael Steel provided a brief statement:
“We sent the White House a counter-offer that would achieve tax and entitlement reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more American jobs. As the Speaker said today, we’re still waiting for the White House to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the ‘balanced approach’ he promised the American people. The longer the White House slow-walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff.”
Then:
“Earlier on Tuesday, White House press secretary Jay Carney rebutted Boehner’s charge that the president had yet to offer specifics.
“The President, unlike any other party to these negotiations, has put forward detailed spending cuts as well as detailed revenue proposals. It is a simple fact,” Carney told reporters, subsequently holding up a copy of Obama’s 2011 budget plan.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fiscal-cliff-offer-plan-obama-boehner-taxes-increase-spending-cuts-republicans-2012-12#ixzz2EmjJV5Z4
The speaker is lying as usual.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
5:28 pm
” it is quite frankly getting pretty boring as well.”
Yet you can’t help yourself from reading Jay’s articles and posting on the blog.
getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:29 pm
ben,
I am a proud Independent.
josef
December 11th, 2012
5:29 pm
K’CHAK
@ 5:24
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
5:30 pm
and sulk and sulk…………………..
Same ole Ben
Keep up the great work Ben.
Mr Right
December 11th, 2012
5:30 pm
So again, if Republicans in Washington want to march off the fiscal cliff for the cause of slashing entitlements, and more importantly, if they want to push the country into default by refusing to raise the debt ceiling unless entitlements are slashed, they may turn around and discover that the little parade that they’re trying to lead has very few followers.
So if we go off the cliff it’s the Republicans fault and hte Dems bear no responsiblity?
Mr Right
December 11th, 2012
5:32 pm
Carney told reporters, subsequently holding up a copy of Obama’s 2011 budget plan
Would that be the one that didn’t get a single vote, period.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
5:33 pm
Well, since we spend over 50% of every non-social security and non-medicare tax dollar on the military/security complex, gosh, I just cain’t imagine where we ought to make them cuts! Can you?
Ben, you little worm! You avoided me downstairs, but I’ve got your number. Remain at your peril. HERE I COME!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:33 pm
josef
I figured the song was appropriate given that Jay was trying to get a woman. (And what a woman, yowzah!)
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
5:34 pm
I cannot image the party of old white folks cutting their throats just so the Republican politician’s money men get their tax cuts either. I’m just glad that I don’t have enough wage income to get stuck with an extra 12k in taxes myself.
Ben Shockley
December 11th, 2012
5:35 pm
“Ben, you little worm! You avoided me downstairs, but I’ve got your number. Remain at your peril. HERE I COME!”
A few points;
1) Worm? Really? my 10-yr-old might be imoressed with name calling. But I doubt it.
2) Wasn’t avoiding you. Was working. Give it a try.
3) Peril? LMAO
Ben Shockley
December 11th, 2012
5:36 pm
“I’m just glad that I don’t have enough wage income to get stuck with an extra 12k in taxes myself.”
Heaven forbid that a liberal should ever have to work for their money.
josef
December 11th, 2012
5:36 pm
Enter your comments here
indigo
December 11th, 2012
5:36 pm
Erwin’s cat – 5:17
And you think it’s ironic I criticize puppets because?
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
5:37 pm
Oh, wait! I forgot! Them Military and Security complex people own our government and own our House of Representatives and own our Senate and own our President! I guess there’s no way we’re gonna be making any cuts there, now is there?
Ben Shockley
December 11th, 2012
5:37 pm
OK libbies, I’m heading on home to the Shockley Plantation. You guys can stay here and keep stroking Jay’s ego.
josef
December 11th, 2012
5:37 pm
Cat fight, cat fight!
Jay
December 11th, 2012
5:38 pm
no, JHM. Remember, in this scenario I am king.
As king, I would designate someone to handle that task for me. I’m thinking Ronda Rousey could dispatch you quickly, one way or another.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=988&bih=529&q=ronda+rousey&gbv=2&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=bi&ei=drXHUOWkHcHN2QW5yIDoAw
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:38 pm
I’ve never been imoressed.
Is that something that hookers charge extra for?
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
5:39 pm
Alright, brother Kam; playing the sweet Todd Rundgren.
Benji has delusions of relevance.
I just checked out this Ms. Vergara. And right out of Monty Python, she has huge…………….. tracts of land.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxHO3AFIug
Nero
December 11th, 2012
5:42 pm
2011 budget…BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! There are no spending cuts. Sequestration is the better way.
TM
December 11th, 2012
5:42 pm
you take from the rich to pay for Obama care, you take from the rich to pay for the deficit, you make the rich pay more for medicare, you make the rich take less for social security. Just take all their money. What exactly do the poor folks pay for??
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
5:42 pm
Republicans will once again grow accustomed to actually paying their way instead of charging it and then trying to claim that the bill is someone else’s to pay. They just need the responsible party–the Democrats–to hold their hand and show them the way.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
5:44 pm
Heaven forbid that a liberal should ever have to work for their money.
I pay others to do the menial tasks. Dang! That makes me a job creator!
josef
December 11th, 2012
5:45 pm
TM
“What exactly do the poor folks pay for??”
Right you are…let’s eat them…
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
5:45 pm
Lord! Shuckley exits stage right and Dave R enters stage left!
Man! I’m glad you’re here Dave! I’m in a perfectly shyte-kicking mood tonight!
You’re it!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
5:45 pm
Well this is sad. I find myself generally in agreement with most of Jay’s 5:15 post on what he would. I could get my con card revoked for that.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
5:47 pm
“Right you are…let’s eat them…”
Mr. Swift says the Irish ones are tastier. I got dibs on the O-shaunnessy clan.
Donovan
December 11th, 2012
5:47 pm
Hey, Jay…I thought that the election was over. Oh, I get it!
You guys did such a good job of suckering the “middle class” into not wanting to give up anything that it puts Obama into a tight corner of not offering anything for something.
Now it is time to campaign for letting the wealthy carry the load for you sad sacks and not offer any form of contribution on your part. Do we have a problem with you reprehensible liberals? You’re damn right we do.
Do I feel the need to remind you do your low character participation in this political struggle? Hell yes!
Christian Conservative
December 11th, 2012
5:48 pm
Its seems Bookman you don’t realize compromise works both ways. Look at the ridiculous fairy tale Obama proposed. Even the dems in Congress laughed at it and won’t put it up for a vote in the Senate…..
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
5:48 pm
you take from the rich to pay for Obama care, you take from the rich to pay for the deficit, you make the rich pay more for medicare, you make the rich take less for social security. Just take all their money. What exactly do the poor folks pay for??
Well once they give all that you claim they give, they’ll be poor and then they can get enough of their money back to subsist on, like all the rest of the poor folks.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:49 pm
…and not offer any form of contribution on your part.
Not intended to be a factual statement.
TM
December 11th, 2012
5:51 pm
If you look at Jay.s post as king all he does is screw the rich, hammer the doctors and kill defense. He does nothing to stop spending on his causes because he doesn’t believe in shared sacrifice.
josef
December 11th, 2012
5:51 pm
DONOVAN
Quick question…where do the wealthy get their money from?
getalife
December 11th, 2012
5:52 pm
Yeah, attack the poor cons.
don is slobbering all over the wealthy again.
They don’t need your help don.
They will be fine.
Jay
December 11th, 2012
5:52 pm
Donovan, for those who care, started out sending me screeds such as those above via email back in the early days of the Iraq war, when I was instructed on how stupid and anti-American I was to question the wisdom of the Bush invasion.
In other words, this appears to be a permanent affliction.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
5:52 pm
TM: how much do you think doctors make a year?
DannyX
December 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
“Now it is time to campaign for letting the wealthy carry the load for you sad sacks and not offer any form of contribution on your part. Do we have a problem with you reprehensible liberals? You’re damn right we do.”
Calm down Donovan, take a few deep breaths. Republicans gave us the socialist Medicare Part D, it should not surprise you one bit that the poll results Jay posted confirm the fact that most Republicans are indeed reprehensible liberals that want the wealthy to carry the load.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
5:55 pm
In other words, this appears to be a permanent affliction.
Creepy and obsessive in a stalk-ery kind of way.
Eeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww.
TM
December 11th, 2012
5:56 pm
Sooth = A GP serving a rural community that Jay wants to cut his fees?? Not even close to what you think
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
5:59 pm
Jay, I’ll try to tone it down a little. I know I’m a little over the top tonight!
I know I’m a little overwrought tonight.
Donovan
December 11th, 2012
5:59 pm
Josef…people of wealth get their money from many sources. By and large wealthy people get their wealth from hard work and intelligent decisions. They tend to have a propensity to preserve their wealth and grow it. When the fruits of their labor is threatened by government, misappropriation, or out- right theft it becomes very personal.
What’s your point?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
30% across the board pay cuts for congress, the president, the judiciary branch and their support staff employees.
TM
December 11th, 2012
6:04 pm
How about a one time tax of 15% on every ones 401K or IRA. You are going to have to pay the tax sooner or later how about now?? That will go far to reducing the deficit.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:05 pm
DONOVAN
But does not that wealth ultimately result from the labor of the working class…the producers of the product on which the profits are made. Without that class there would be no wealthy people. My point? You don’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg. You fatten her…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
By and large wealthy people get their wealth from hard work and intelligent decisions
One word Nardelli
Nardelli was notably criticized for cutting back on knowledgeable full-time employees with experience in the trades and replacing them with part-time help with little relevant experience.
Jay
December 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
Thanks Sooth. Saves me the trouble! :>)
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
So again, if Republicans in Washington want to march off the fiscal cliff for the cause of slashing entitlements, and more importantly, if they want to push the country into default by refusing to raise the debt ceiling unless entitlements are slashed, they may turn around and discover that the little parade that they’re trying to lead has very few followers
This statement misses the point.
The GOP ruling elite have the followers they truly need, and in many ways these followers overlap with the followers of the Democratic ruling elite: the financier class and the corporate power lobbies such as ALEC, etc.
They’re the ones who pay the bills, not the poor everyday voter who may identity as GOP.
Just look at who’s pulling the strings in Rick Snyder’s Michigan.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:06 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
@ 6:01
You won’t get much of an argument from me on that one…
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
6:07 pm
Donavan
And here I thought when others said you were a bs’er it meant what it usually means not Blog Stalker……
getalife
December 11th, 2012
6:08 pm
don,
w helped Iran by occupying Iraq.
A total disaster and you helped explode our deficit con.
Columbus
December 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
Leadership is not doing what is popular but necessary. That is a HUGE problem with politics today. (Unless its the 1-3% minority that wants God out and gay in forced upon the 90% of the rest of us)
Most people would like to have low interest rates forever too. Cuts MUST come and they need to hit EVERYBODY including the behemoths social security and medicaid significantly. Americans have went soft and will only get softer without some toughening up. DRASTIC cuts are needed and ANY American that doesnt want to sacrifice their part is selfish and unpatriotic….damn polls right now.
Americans also favor God IN Govt as PLACED IN OUR GOVT in the beginning by a HUGE percentage but He is being taken away more and more at every turn…..so much for that poll mattering so screw this one too
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
Going to have to be some cuts along with those tax increases that Repubs are probably going to fold on in the next week or so…….
barking frog
December 11th, 2012
6:10 pm
What is a crusade without a cross ? Is there a cross afloat without
a crusade to symbolize ? Has any saint emblazoned a cross that
could inspire this holy crusade?
Donovan
December 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
Ok, Jay, I am having a cocktail before dinner and you should be home doing the husband routine with the wife, but if you want to butt heads, let’s draw swords.
As you might guess by now, I am very conservative, patriotic, and a being of common sense. You come across as a liberal with crazy naive ideas that incites your liberal following to a frenzy and I am here to douce the flames of liberal lunacy.
What’s your convoluted point?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
I’m sure our Chinese, North Koreans, Iranians, Syrians and former “Soviet” friends would be delighted if we cut defense spending.
Grover
December 11th, 2012
6:11 pm
Hey my buddies the Koch brothers, Sheldon , Mitt ( willard ) and the gang at bain have plenty of money. They just threw away a billion on the election.
jane
December 11th, 2012
6:13 pm
the GOP IS DEAD
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:14 pm
Jane – America is dead.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
6:14 pm
This poll shows me that the majority of the American population has either been brainwashed by the libs and their propaganda machine (Main stream Media), do not understand the basic fundamentals of the economy or are just plain dumb.
So, now the opinions and beliefs of Republicans are the fault of Liberals????
When will the excuse makers on the right ever own up to responsibility for anything? That’s the funniest deflection I think I’ve ever heard….
—————————
In other words, Ben, you have no rational response to the information presented here, so you sulk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6GuEswXOXo&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm5xQyD2vE
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
DONOVAN
A c*cktail? Psssst…rich people don’t use that word….it’s sure sign of the nouveaux riches wannabe pretenders…
Jay
December 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
“As you might guess by now, I am very conservative, patriotic, and a being of common sense.”
Actually, Donovan, that’s all news to me. Are you sure? Go look in the mirror and see if you’ve got the right guy.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
“the GOP IS DEAD”
Well…like those who proclaim the death of the USA…it’s a pretty lively corpse
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
6:16 pm
Columbus, I just asked God about that, and he’s cool with it.
Donovan is the blog arbiter of who is stupid and anti-American?
…douce the flames…
Yet apparently the man could not pass a seventh grade spelling test.
Chuckle…
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:16 pm
oops correction
make that petit bourgeois wannabe pretenders…the nouveaux riches are more circumspect in their language…
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
6:17 pm
Donavan
I bet you know Lee Greenwood’s “Proud to be an American” by heart………
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
6:17 pm
Kam @ 5:55
I second the Eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
DOGGONE
@ 6:15
Word.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
Nunna, though many of the cons apparently have written her off, America is rockin’.
Occupy that.
F. Sinkwich
December 11th, 2012
6:18 pm
Poll question:
“Would you like free stuff forever and never have to worry about paying for it?”
A: Sure.
“Would you like free stuff for you but other people have to pay for it?”
A: Sure.
Duh.
It’s over, folks.
RIP USA 1776-2012
barking frog
December 11th, 2012
6:19 pm
maybe donovan could dowse the flames or douche the flames
or just use the fire extinguisher….
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
6:19 pm
Donovan: “Cuts MUST come and they need to hit EVERYBODY including the behemoths social security and medicaid significantly. Americans have went soft and will only get softer without some toughening up. DRASTIC cuts are needed and ANY American that doesnt want to sacrifice their part is selfish and unpatriotic….”
Utterly wrong-headed. Dead wrong. You want to “toughen” something up? Try the wealthy elite who have enjoyed three decades of favored policy and scarcely challenged ascendancy over labor. And now they want a “balanced” approach? Try rolling back those 3 decades of class war against the people waged by the rich, for starters.
“damn polls right now”
Huh? The elites of both the parties are in Washington as we speak preparing to cut the legs out of the few feeble remainders of the social gains of the 20th C, man! What do you want? This ruling elite – and again, it includes BOTH parties — is utterly determined to ram these changes through without the slightest regard for their deep unpopularity. Wake up.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:20 pm
Rockin huh? America will figure it out in time perhaps, but by then it will be too late to make the necessary changes. We’re following the path of the Roman Empire to a tee.
indigo
December 11th, 2012
6:20 pm
Kamachak
I guess you’re Jay’s official truth-o-meter tonight.
He did appoint you, right?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 11th, 2012
6:21 pm
Poll question:
“Would you like free stuff forever and never have to worry about paying for it?”
A: Sure.
“Would you like free stuff for you but other people have to pay for it?”
A: Sure.
———————————————-
I didn’t see those poll questions that the Republicans took, but if you say so
td
December 11th, 2012
6:21 pm
Yes, Let us increase taxes on the those evil rich. How about we start by taxing the top 5% at 50% of their income and see what happens:
Top 5% of income earners (households making over $161,579 per year). This group made $2.7 trillion in 2011. This group also already pays $560 billion to our total budget so increasing their tax rates from 35% to 50% would bring in an additional $200 billion per year.
Oops, this could not be correct because increasing the taxes on the rich is suppose to solve all our problems and allow Obama to have more spending programs to put people back to work. $1.2 trillion deficit and if we raised everyone’s taxes to 50% that makes over $161,000 per year then we only cut the deficit by $200 billion so this means we still have a $1 trillion deficit.
Where are we going to get the rest of the money from?
http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2012
JKL2
December 11th, 2012
6:22 pm
-the American people are worried about the deficit, but they do not support cutting Medicare or Medicaid
obamacare says,”What?”.
Their destruction has already been put into law. No need to worry about funding them. obamacare will save everyone.
Wilbur
December 11th, 2012
6:23 pm
No problem finding lots of people who don’t want to cut spending and who want someone else…it the evil rich…to pay for it.
And Dim Jay thinks thats new.
What is new is that a major political party has embraced a philosophy that no serious person can believe will work. Our result is economic decline, class warfare and eventual failure as a society. But it was popular. Well done, Jay!
Donovan
December 11th, 2012
6:24 pm
Josef…I don’t fatten, for that is exploitation. Commies and reprehensible people do that. Through my investments, all enjoy the fruits of my labor. The more money I make I give back through consumption tax and contribution. Everyone should struggle to become more financially secure and be rewarded for their efforts. Is this not the American dream?
Why punish those that have more than you do? A worthy cause should be rewarded and not looked upon with jealousy. Earn it.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
6:24 pm
Kamachak
I guess you’re Jay’s official truth-o-meter tonight.
indigo
You guessed wrong, sport.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
6:25 pm
“Yes, Let us increase taxes on the those evil rich”
Curious people would like to know…why do you call the rich evil?
indigo
December 11th, 2012
6:25 pm
Nunna Yobinnes – 6:11
Yes, they would be delighted becuase it would mean they could make correstponding cuts in their defence budgets. That never crossed your mind, did it?
And, the middle class and poor here would really be delighted if those billions saved would be put into healthcare.
barking frog
December 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
Nothing wrong with giving tax cuts to job creators but the job creators
should have to show their work. No jobs-No cuts.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
Why tax the rich? They’re the ones with the money…duh.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
Doggone – surely you don’t have to ask that question. Everyone who reads this blog knows that the evil, selfish rich people are to blame for all our country’s ills.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
6:26 pm
indigo: Kamachak I guess you’re Jay’s official truth-o-meter tonight. He did appoint you, right?
Well we could have an election. I am running a super secrety PAC. How about you send a $1 million or two and I will use my Rovian skills to have you appointed.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:28 pm
I’m sure that the Chinese, North Koreans, Iranians, Russians, et al are just waiting to cut their defense budgets. I’ve got some ocean front property in South Dakota I’d like to sell you too.
F. Sinkwich
December 11th, 2012
6:29 pm
“Curious people would like to know…why do you call the rich evil?”
I dunno, ask the Occutard. He hates them big time like every other lib ilk on Jay’s blog.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:30 pm
indigo – it never crossed my mind because it will never happen. “Everybody wants to rule the world.”
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
6:30 pm
“Everyone who reads this blog knows that the evil, selfish rich people are to blame for all our country’s ills.”
Well, there certainly seem to be a LOT of the conned here that think that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a lib say that.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
6:30 pm
Nunna, are you one of those domino theory guys? (It was all military industrial complex b*llsh*t)
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
6:31 pm
Keep
If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
6:31 pm
Now let me ask you this: RIGHT OR LEFT, where would you — as a sane, rational person — suggest that we, as a country, make some cuts in our spending?
Don’t forget that Social Security and Medicare are self-funding and do not contribute one thin dime to our deficit.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:31 pm
So no only is there a disconnect between the party leadership and the party members, there is also a disconnect between what party regulars say in general terms and what they say when things get specific.
No wonder Republicans have such a difficult time with data.
There’s another meaning behind this: Take out of the rants and reasons the ’socialist Kenyan Marxist Obummer” lines and they really, really don’t have anything of substance to offer.
Then again, regulars on this blog have known that for a long, long time.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
“I dunno, ask the Occutard. He hates them big time like every other lib ilk on Jay’s blog”
And yet it always seems to be a con who calls them evil. Curious for sure.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
No matter how many times you point out things, like our defense spending compared to the next 10 biggest spenders, some nimnod still has to cry “fear” and whine that nothing can be cut and we must spend more. I guess its all part of being part of the secessionist GOP fake patriots fake human caring fake Country First conned.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
No, I’m just not naive enough to think that nations that have continually demonstrated aggressiveness towards our country will ever reduce their military spending.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:32 pm
DONOVAN
That I earned it by working for it is the working/salaried class line. They sell their labor for a wage. The rich/wealthy buy that labor to produce the product which they in turn market for a profit. That may be done directly by contract with the worker or it may be done through investment in enterprises which do the contracting. Ultimately, wealth is derived from purchased labor. The happier those workers (i.e. the fatter the goose) the more valuable the return (i.e. golden egg).
getalife
December 11th, 2012
6:33 pm
“Why tax the rich? They’re the ones with the money…duh.”
The “evil” rich?
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
6:33 pm
Enter your comments here”Don’t forget that Social Security and Medicare are self-funding and do not contribute one thin dime to our deficit”
True, but given that the SS funds are borrowed…it certainly enables it.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
td
The only ones making the points you do (increasing taxes will solve all our problems and will solve the deficit) are nonthinking conservatives.
So why don’t you just admit it’s a conservative idea, not a liberal idea?
F. Sinkwich
December 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
“Why punish those that have more than you do? A worthy cause should be rewarded and not looked upon with jealousy. Earn it.”
Unfortunately Dono, that’s old time thinking.
Success used to be celebrated. People who studied hard, worked hard, provided employment, etc., are now the bad guys. The majority in America now think they’re entitled to a free ride, funded by others.
It’s pathetic and will certainly lead to ruin, but lib ilks don’t care. They hate the fact they made bad decisions in their lives, but want others to pay for it.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
On second thought, let’s cut our defense spending. We can count on our abilities to reason and negotiate with our adversaries.
banner123
December 11th, 2012
6:37 pm
Jay,
thanks for the response. do you have numbers to back up all of your proposals and how much at the end of the day would our deficit be or what kind of surplus you think we would have.
Just curious on what your numbers would look like.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
6:37 pm
“$1.2 trillion deficit and if we raised everyone’s taxes to 50% that makes over $161,000 per year then we only cut the deficit by $200 billion so this means we still have a $1 trillion deficit.
Where are we going to get the rest of the money from?”
Math- the hobgobblin of little liberal noggins
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
6:38 pm
If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve
Okay, but your share of the non-coordinated PAC [wink wink nudge nudge] goes to my pocket. Now I am just going to have to ask for more money to help “Draft Kam and help keep our campaign to have Jay act” alive. Won’t you send in your contribution,
SuckerHuckabee style. For $250k we’ll let you come to our Mickey dinner with surprise speaker.Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
6:39 pm
I want to post this again and I want you to cursor down to the Chart captioned “U.S. Department of Defense 1965 – 2020 (est) billions of constant 2010 dollars.” Notice anything unusual around 2000? Yes, that’s when George W. Bush took office. How many trillions of dollars do we need to chase a few “terrorists” around Pakistan? How did we ever make do on that paltry sum in 2000?
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:40 pm
Nunna
You might want to look at the effectiveness of the Air Force before and after a Chief of Staff by the name of Merrill McPeak implemented his changes. He did them not in response to budget cuts, but in anticipation of them, saying they also presented a great opportunity for streamlining leading to greater force effectiveness.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
6:40 pm
Thulsa Doom: “Math- the hobgobblin of little liberal noggins”
Growth. The streak of the counter-intuitive that makes delicate little conservative heads explode. They just can’t part with the little shopkeeper’s ways and face the fact that while austerity might be good for the shopkeeper, or the household, it’s death for the nation.
Rightwing Troll
December 11th, 2012
6:40 pm
Somebody get the poor overwrought sissies a binky or something quick… you’d think after 4 years of being wrong about everything and then getting their asses wupped, they’d learn some humility…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
6:41 pm
hmmm… I think we can get the additional savings out of the Romney plan. You know how great that GOP math was there.
Oh wait, that was garbage.
td
December 11th, 2012
6:41 pm
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:36 pm
td
The only ones making the points you do (increasing taxes will solve all our problems and will solve the deficit) are nonthinking conservatives.
So why don’t you just admit it’s a conservative idea, not a liberal idea?
Sorry Paul, but I have heard this over and over again on stations like MSNBC and even from Obama.
Please do not deny that Obama is selling the idea that (during the campaign as well as now) that if we can only increase taxes on the people that make over $250,000 a year back to the Clinton rates then all of our problems would be resolved.
That is a big fat lie and until the American people actually realize that we have a spending problem instead of a revenue problem then we are not going to improve the situation.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:42 pm
Soothsayer
Kinda makes you wonder what the Defense budget would have been in WWII, fighting millions of Nazis and Japanese and Italians, if today’s conservatives had their say -
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
6:43 pm
td: “That is a big fat lie and until the American people actually realize that we have a spending problem instead of a revenue problem then we are not going to improve the situation.”
You’re talking like a shopkeeper. See my 6:40.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:43 pm
td
You’ve heard this ( (increasing taxes will solve all our problems and will solve the deficit) on MSNBC and from Pres Obama?
I do occasionally print something I heard but do not have a source for when it comes to a cable station, but I should think those two items would be very, very easy to cite to attribute to Pres Obama.
SO…. cite for either of those from Pres Obama?
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
6:44 pm
Brocephus,
Just heard something interesting from an economist on the news regarding growth and right to work states. Of the top 10 growth states over the last 10 years 9 of them were right to work states. The lone exception? Washington state where there is no state income tax or corporate income tax. In other words a low tax burden. Interesting.
6.9% vs 8.7%- those are the unemployment rates in right to work states vs no right to work states today. Interesting.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:44 pm
getalife
Evil rich, magnanimous rich…they’re still the ones with the money!
Ask a liberal, the evil rich are the likes of Sheldon Adelson, ask a conservative, and it’s the likes of George Soros…
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
6:46 pm
Evil is the word preferred by those with junior high school vocabularies…
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
6:46 pm
If all of the Bush tax cuts expire ON EVERYONE that would amount to around $268 billion in revenue. Letting the Bush tax cuts expire on those making above $250K a year isn’t really worth the effort in terms of revenue generation.
No, the truth is we have a bloated, out of control military/security (to encompass Homeland Security) complex that is literally bleeding this country dry. But, like most parasites, the health of the host is of little concern.
If we let all of the Bush tax cuts expire and reduced military/security spending by half, we could make a real dent in the budget deficit and debt.
But, since this would involve some considerable pain, I doubt seriously if this will ever happen.
Jackie
December 11th, 2012
6:47 pm
It is well documented that the USA spends more on its military than the next 13 largest defense budgets of the world.
http://www.pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison.aspx
getalife
December 11th, 2012
6:47 pm
“EXCLUSIVE: President Obama Predicts GOP Will Cave on Taxes” ABC.
Also, confident middle class tax cut will pass and recognizing Syrian rebels as Syria’s government.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 11th, 2012
6:47 pm
josef
just for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRrCY5uhWY
td
December 11th, 2012
6:47 pm
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
6:43 pm
OK, I will bite. How do you have growth when every policy (Obamacare to environmental regulations to tax policies) are all anti growth?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:47 pm
Paul, I’m sure that we would fare just as well if we brought back our Vietnam war era fighter planes, rather than improving on them to maintain superiority. No more F-22s, and F-35s. Bring out the F-4s and A-6s. If all else fails, we can start flying our passenger jets into their infrastructures.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:48 pm
” we have a spending problem instead of a revenue problem”
td, please to not let this preempt the earlier request for credibility from your post. Please provide that and do not let this followup question let you avoid it.
IF we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem, we have adequate revenue for our need.
We borrow about 40 cents (some say 46 cents) of every dollar in the budget.
So… tell us all, please (you’ll be the first, not just here but you’ll even be ahead of any Republican politician)….
Look at the budget and tell us how to cut 40 percent to balance it.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
6:48 pm
“Ask a liberal, the evil rich are the likes of Sheldon Adelson”
That’s not the name that comes to THIS lib’s mind. I think of people like Ken Lay or Bernie Madoff
Jack ®
December 11th, 2012
6:49 pm
Bookman ain’t serious. Oh he may be serious about wanting that lady’s phone number: But this bashing the haves and claiming kinship with the have-nots is just pure unadulterated liberal drivel and he’s having a ball knowing that some take him seriously. And he’s laughing all the way to the bank.
indigo
December 11th, 2012
6:49 pm
Nunna
When The Soviet Union collapsed, Russia was, for a time, in a terrible economic fix. They were essentially a third world country. And yet, they were never in any military danger because of their huge nuclear arsenal.
We could easily cut our military budget by at least 30% and be in no danger whatsoever for the same reason. We would still retain our nukes and have enough firepower to level any and every country on Earth.
What we wouldn’t have is the luxury of cowboy wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, wars which, in the end, give every indication of only benefiting the Military-Industrial Complex.
We are not God’s military gift to the world. We are not the world’s police. It is no longer necessary for us to feel we’re the “savior” of the free world. It makes no sense to be spending billions defending other countries, who can easily defend themselves, while watching our healthcare system slowly fall apart.
Donovan
December 11th, 2012
6:49 pm
Ok, boys and girls…I took the good time to play with you well after I should. I get the lame insults and the vitriol come-backs, but I want to leave you with a bedtime thought.
Even though I sometimes don’t check my spelling, you obviously get my message. You guys live in a childish environment of liberal Disney World. You guys hang out in this liberal club of delusion for your own personal comfort. I tend to enjoy sticking you with common sense that drives you crazy. I am grounded in the common sense pragmatism of life and you guys prefer to vote for community organizing activists that mean something to your core beliefs. I find it sad and perplexing, but you are who you are.
Your way in life is wrong and my way is right. What you believe is fundamentally corrosive to a better way of life and destructive in its essence. I used to be a liberal hippie in my youth, but as an adult I grew out of such folly.
See you weird people tomorrow .
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:50 pm
Nunna
Okay, thanks. You really aren’t conversant in 21st century defense matters, are you?
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
6:51 pm
“Growth. The streak of the counter-intuitive that makes delicate little conservative heads explode.”
Welcome to the occupation,
You can’t possibly be referencing the anemic 2% or so economic growth we’ve had under Obama. Just like some other liberal talking points- garbage in. garbage out.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:52 pm
Common Sense
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
6:52 pm
Donovan: “You guys live in a childish environment of liberal Disney World”
Sure, don’t mention it. But just to correct you on one little thing: it’s the conservative “free market” fantasy that’s the true “Disney World’”, world of childish make-believe.
You’re welcome! Nightey night.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:54 pm
Jackie, yes but all our “allies” such as the UK, France, Canada, et al, who have lower defense spending always expect us to come and protect them from the big bad terrorists, Chinese, Russians, etc. I suppose we could go back to isolationism (might not be a bad idea).
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:54 pm
Scrooge McDuck is a Lib?!!?
td
December 11th, 2012
6:55 pm
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
6:46 pm
You are wrong my friend. We are spending 4.5% of our nations GDP today on defense spending. In 1968 we spent 9% of the nations GDP.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:55 pm
Paul, I am as conversant in military matters as you are in tax matters.
td
December 11th, 2012
6:56 pm
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
6:46 pm
You are wrong my friend. We are spending 4.5% of our nations GDP today on defense spending. In 1968 we spent 9% of the nations GDP.
Forgot the link:
http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/defense-entitlement-spending
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:56 pm
DONOVAN
Well, I guess “c-cktail hour” must be over at “the club.”
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:56 pm
Nunna
Then you may want to start demonstrating some valid points on either subject.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
6:57 pm
Back at you.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
6:57 pm
Paul: The only ones making the points you do (increasing taxes will solve all our problems and will solve the deficit) are nonthinking conservatives.
So why don’t you just admit it’s a conservative idea, not a liberal idea?
You made a funny!!!! You actually expect a conservative, on this blog, to own up to something??? Surely you jest!!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
6:57 pm
Your way in life is wrong and my way is right
Oh the foolishness of those who think they are right. I guess he does not know who some posters think they are!
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:58 pm
td
Do you have that cite for Pres Obama saying raising the marginal rate on the top two tiers by 3-4% will solve our deficit problem?
You may want to ask Nunna for assistance. He fancies himself an expert on tax policy.
josef
December 11th, 2012
6:58 pm
JACK
Are you saying Jay’s “rich?”
Paul
December 11th, 2012
6:59 pm
Brosephus
You were always good at reading the subtleties…..
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 11th, 2012
7:00 pm
Josef
of course Jay and you are rich, best selling authors
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
7:00 pm
Paul, you still aren’t going to acknowledge that it is raising taxes by more than 3 or 4%, because the income brackets are not the same. I am a tax professional with more than 30 years experience. What’s your tax background?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
7:00 pm
Doom @ 6:44
Now, how much of that growth in those states are making it all the way down to the paychecks of the workforce that’s producing that growth? I heard that stat as well. What they didn’t say is how much of that growth ends up in the hands of the workforce.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
7:01 pm
“We are spending 4.5% of our nations GDP today on defense spending. In 1968 we spent 9% of the nations GDP”
True. But nowadays we have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
7:05 pm
td: percents mean nothing to me. We are spending in excess of $1 trillion annually on our military/security complex (including interest on past military/security complex spending).
“What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security . . .
“This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter . . .
“To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
“How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know.”
– From an interview with a German citizen after World War II
from the book by Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free
josef
December 11th, 2012
7:06 pm
COMMON SENSE
Yeah, we’re meeting up later at a chic little bistro to have c*cktails and plot the overthrow of the evil rich… It’s a nasty job, but somebody has to do it.
josef
December 11th, 2012
7:09 pm
SOOTH
“… the book by Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free”
An excellent work and probably the best I have ever read on the subject. Should be required reading by all high school students.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
7:09 pm
Brocephus,
Wages were higher in the right to work states. But so was unemployment, an eroding tax base, economic growth was slower, and population loss.
Wages were overall lower in the right to work states but unemployment was substantially lower and the economices were growing and gaining populations.
Considering that liberals are supposedly more about equality I’m going to guess that you guys are for more having jobs, the economy growing better, and less people dealing with the pain of unemployment. They may make a little bit less overall but they are better overall.
On top of that I would venture to say that tax burdens are probably lower in right to work states thus making those lower earnings go farther than in a higher tax state like say New York or New Jersey. I’m sure you’ll probably agree with that.
And last of all those people probably have a much better chance of keeping their jobs as opposed to seeing them outsourced. At least that’s the evidence as indicated by population and jobs growth.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
7:10 pm
td: “OK, I will bite. How do you have growth when every policy (Obamacare to environmental regulations to tax policies) are all anti growth?”
Thulsa Doom: “You can’t possibly be referencing the anemic 2% or so economic growth we’ve had under Obama”
Well, it’s sort of like health. Doing everything healthy won’t by itself guarantee good health outcomes. Other factors are involved. On the other hand, doing unhealthy things comes much closer to guaranteed poor health. Austerity — an approach based entirely on spending cuts — is like those unhealthy habits that guarantee poor health in the economic “body”. No country has ever cut its way to growth.
As for Obama’s tepid growth, yes, it’s true, growth would have been far better had we seen far more aggressive action – such as a Rooseveltian program – but to the extent that we’ve had growth it has likely been the result of Obama’s stimulus that actually consisted of spending boosts and not on tax-cutting bows to conservative ideas. But Obama was far from Roosevelt. Hell he’s far from Richard Nixon. He’s actually quite conservative, which has been a tragic limitation.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
7:10 pm
So far, more than 16,500 people have signed a petition asking the White House to build a Death Star. The official petition on WhiteHouse.gov needs 25,000 signatures by Dec. 14 before the government will even consider it
Gingrich is apparently seeking his Deathstar base to rule the world. But the rest of the GOP wants bayonets instead.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:12 pm
Nunna
Incompetent generals cause many of our problems in Iraq and Afghanistan, so don’t be too quick to fall for the error of self-aggrandizement.
You may want to read what’s written, not what you think is written. Might save you some errors on preparing returns. I wrote “Do you have that cite for Pres Obama saying raising the marginal rate on the top two tiers by 3-4% will solve our deficit problem?”
That does not relate to what you are attempting to portray so you can go off on one of your tangents.
Are you the guy who was going on and on the other day about how 3 percent of $50,000 is $15,000, not $1,500?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
7:13 pm
You are wrong my friend. We are spending 4.5% of our nations GDP today on defense spending. In 1968 we spent 9% of the nations GDP.
LOL!!!!!
1968: 9% of $825B
vs
2012: 4.5% of $15T
LOL!!!!!!
RF
December 11th, 2012
7:13 pm
“Gingrich is apparently seeking his Deathstar base to rule the world”
Newt’s too fat for the Dark Lord robe, though. Kinda confuses the story when the lord looks like Java the Hut…
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
7:15 pm
Ok Paul. I am going to go to the website you linked, and copy and paste the tax schedules contained therein. We are going to compare what the total tax is based on those tax schedules. BRB.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
7:16 pm
I just figured out who donovan is? One of the koch brothers! Jay knows how to make him tie his panties in a wad, job well done…
RF
December 11th, 2012
7:16 pm
While painful cuts, at least short term, need to be made to reduce the deficit, those don’t all need to come from social programs. Those who receive such aid tend to spend it, and that generates sales taxes and business revenue and does create jobs. Reduce that, and the overall economy contracts somewhat. Now is not the time for that.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:20 pm
Nunna
You’re just bound and determined to hijack td’s and mine’s conversation so you can engage me, aren’t you?
I’m flattered in a creepy kind of way. And not at all sure I wish to chase you thru rabbit holes.
But first: you never answered: are you the guy from a few days’ back who said someone making $300,000 a year would pay an additional $15,000 a year if Obama’s marginal rate changes went thru?
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:21 pm
Nunna
You been drinking?
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:23 pm
Nunna
History Channel’s 3-hour episode on the History of Mankind starts in 30 minutes. Please don’t take too long to answer.
td
December 11th, 2012
7:24 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
7:13 pm
You are wrong my friend. We are spending 4.5% of our nations GDP today on defense spending. In 1968 we spent 9% of the nations GDP.
LOL!!!!!
1968: 9% of $825B
vs
2012: 4.5% of $15T
LOL!!!!!!
We spent $15 trillion dollars last year or are we $15 trillion in debt? Numbers are not your thing are they?
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
7:27 pm
“On the other hand, doing unhealthy things comes much closer to guaranteed poor health. Austerity — an approach based entirely on spending cuts — is like those unhealthy habits that guarantee poor health in the economic “body”. No country has ever cut its way to growth.”
Growth based entirely on spending cuts doesn’t work? Maybe not entirely but spending cuts certainly do spur a country into getting its economic house in order- especially when not cutting your spending results in your eventual bankruptcy. You might want to check with the Greeks and ask how that runaway spending worked for them- if you can get them to stop rioting first.
josef
December 11th, 2012
7:28 pm
PAUL
Unfortunately I’m Eastern Time and am not going to be able to catch the next episode that I REALLY wanted to see…the American Civil War…I guess I’ll have to wait for rerun on it…most excellent series that one is…
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
7:29 pm
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:21 pm
Nunna
“You been drinking?”
That’s my purview Paul. KD
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:29 pm
td
If a family of four earns $50,000 a year and spends, say, $5,000 (10%) on food to be healthy, does that mean if another family earns $250,000 a year they have to spend $25,000 a year (10 percent) to be healthy? Or if they eat out every meal at top-tier restaurants, to cut back from 25 grand will endanger their health?
You got that link yet for Pres Obama saying raising marginal rates will fix the deficit? Please don’t abandon me on this, td. Nunna’s bound and determined what you really meant was a discussion on all of Pres Obama’s tax proposals and he wants me to defend them all.
Maybe you, as a fellow conservative, could give him a little attention, too?
josef
December 11th, 2012
7:30 pm
DOGGONE
Just caught the Bernie Madoff…yeah, I agree….
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 11th, 2012
7:30 pm
Well, there’s got to be something we can do to slow spending down. Like handing sick people in emergency room a mop and bucket and letting them work off a little of the cost while they’re waiting to see a doc. Or maybe turning the geezers into go-fers in offices and letting them work for some of their whiskey and women money.
But dang if I ain’t plumb out of ideas right now. The only thing I could contribute to this blog tonight would be a whole bunch of dumb ideas and you don’t need me for that. Not when you got Thelma Doom.
So I’m just going to stretch out in my new double recliner with old Ace and watch some Fox News. Have a good night everybody. And oh yeah,
B
O
O
M
!
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:31 pm
josef
I’ve enjoyed it so far.
Hey there, Thulsa,
Yeah well… with you, it actually seems to improve the posts!!!! (joke!)
Steve-USA
December 11th, 2012
7:32 pm
My wife would vote that she have an unlimited shoe budget. That doesn’t make it a good idea.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:33 pm
Redneck
Beer tax?
And how’d you get the new recliner before your whiz-bang accountant got you that free money on your 2012 return?
Mick
December 11th, 2012
7:33 pm
donovan **Your way in life is wrong and my way is right. What you believe is fundamentally corrosive to a better way of life and destructive in its essence. I used to be a liberal hippie in my youth, but as an adult I grew out of such folly.**
Wow…now I really know why donovan comes here to hurdy gurdy….he misses it! What a stale, sterile life you must have…it’s not too late to become…..young again!
Throw off those shackles, spark one up and reflect…yes…a mystical revelation is in your grasp…reach out and regain your human spirit!!! Money is man made.
Common sense?
Please be able to see that we are all part of the same hypocrisy, just don’t think that it applies to just one group…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
7:35 pm
Doom
Why is it that you can’t address ME and not this “you all” stuff? I don’t speak for liberals and liberals don’t speak for me.
I could honestly care less whether a state is right-to-work or not. My issue is with the Right’s assault on organized labor. I can’t understand why you or any other conservative chooses to squash someone’s right to peacefully assemble, a right which is protected by the Constitution.
I would venture to say that the assault on organized labor in conjunction with the downward trajectory of membership is why we have seen a stagnation of wages over the past 40 years. You can cry innovation and such, but increased productivity USED to lead to increased wages. Now, since nobody’s there to force the owners/managment to the table to negotiate such increases, the workers are at the mercy of the O/M group to decide whether they deserve any of the increases generated by the very work and labor they perform.
It’s easy for one to preach about working hard and such when you have a cushy job with cushy pay. I’m willing to bet that nary a conservative who preaches that stuff would say the same thing if they worked 2 miles underground everyday breathing in coal dust while trying to earn a living for their family.
It’s all about perspectives, and when you sit on the toilet, you have no idea of where your sh*t flows. When you’re at the end of that pipe, you have no idea of where the sh*t comes from, but you have to deal with it day in and day out.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
7:37 pm
“Those who receive such aid tend to spend it, and that generates sales taxes and business revenue and does create jobs. Reduce that, and the overall economy contracts somewhat. Now is not the time for that.”
RF,
I’m afraid that you’ve suffered a basic economics fail. No economist worth his salt is going to say that a transfer payment translates into superior economic growth. If anything it reduces economic growth because the dollar used in a transfer payment is not as efficiently allocated or spent as a dollar invested in an entreprenurial activity. And in common sense terms if a transfer payment meant an economic boost then all we would have to do is put everyone on welfare or food stamps and watch the economy skyrocket. The notion is beyond silly.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
7:37 pm
td: We spent $15 trillion dollars last year or are we $15 trillion in debt? Numbers are not your thing are they?
Obviously numbers aren’t your thing. You’re the one comparing GDP of 1968 to today. You figure it out. I even used the percentages of your post to lead the way for you. You are capable of logical reasoning, right?
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
7:38 pm
Masked gunman with assault rifle opens fire in Oregon mall. Sixty shots fired, at least 2 dead.
atljack
December 11th, 2012
7:42 pm
6 Presidential elections in the past 24 years. Democrats won 5 of the 6 (The Supremes stopped the recount in Florida where W. brother was the Governor (doing slimy things to suppress voting) and W’s state campaign manager counted the votes (whew… bad makeup.. she later ran for Senate and Wl abandoned her).
And that Kenyan-born socialist with the funny name WHACKED the GOP TWICE… stings doesn’t boys?
josef
December 11th, 2012
7:42 pm
Check y’all tomorrow…gotta run and get some stuff ready before going back to work tomorrow…
middle of the road
December 11th, 2012
7:42 pm
If these are truly Republicans, I agree that they are not very knowledgeable. That first graph really surprized me. Con’t want to let the PAYROLL tax expire? That is one thing that I really disagreed with Obama on – taking our less Social Security taxes when the system is going downhill?
What we need to do is structure the poll questions in terms of options. Example: do you favor increasing social security taxes now, cutting social security payouts to 75% of current in 20 years, or upping the retirement age to 69? Which one? Do you favor drastically increasing Medicare taxes or do you favor drastic cuts in Medicare benefits? None of this – I want to cut taxes and spend more (such as putting Medicare Part D in place).
We put a lot of spending on our national credit card – two wars, Medicare part D and TARP, and we need to start paying that balance down, or at least quit charging MORE. Or we need to get that second job and bring in more money.
Paul
December 11th, 2012
7:43 pm
Soothsayer
I was just about to post “Pleasant evening, all -” but it just seems inappropriate.
Sympathies to the victims and their families.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
7:43 pm
brosephus
I know it’s a cliche, but no one knows another mans journey until they can step into those shoes. All this anti-union BS is just that. My dad raised nine children as a union general foreman, and that he was. Every job he did was under budget and on time, if you didn’t work, you were fired, simple as that. He knew the contractor would have no contract if they didn’t produce. Good wages, medical, dental and a pension, that’s what is being lost in this crap argument. Know it alls, I lived it…
Fred ™
December 11th, 2012
7:43 pm
Hello jo, just doing a drive by. Didn’t even read the topic…….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
7:43 pm
Ahhh the idiotic garbage posting of the self-proclaimed economist who apparently knows more than real economists.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
7:44 pm
Mick
Exactly…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
7:47 pm
“GOP leading a crusade with very few followers”
Except for the U.S. Congress and a multitude of State Governors and legislatures.
Geez !
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
7:50 pm
Gov. Rick “Snake in the Grass” Snyder signs Right to Work legislation under cover of darkness.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
7:52 pm
Apparently the gunman is locked in the mall in Portland, OR and cannot escape at this moment.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
7:52 pm
Here is my example of persons with $300,000 in taxable income (rates and brackets taken from your link).
To say nothing of the .9% increase in medicare surtax for persons with more than 200000 (Single) or 250000 (MFJ) in W-2 income (a thinly disguised income tax under the guise of “medicare” tax.
It also does not reflect the 3.8% “medicare” surtax (again another thinly disguised income tax) for investment income for persons with more than 200000 (Single) or 250000 (MFJ).
If no action is taken:
Federal marginal income tax brackets
2012 2013?
Single: 2012
10% ($0–$8,700) 8700 x 10% = 870
15% ($8,701–$35,350) 26649 x 15% = 3997
25% ($35,351–$85,650) 50299 x 25% = 12575
28% ($85,651–$178,650) 92999 x 28% = 26040
33% ($178,651–$388,350) 121349 x 33% = 40045
35% (over $388,350) Total = 83527
Married filing jointly: 2012
10% ($0–$17,400) 17400 x 10% = 1740
15% ($17,401–$70,700) 53299 x 15% = 7995
25% ($70,701–$142,700) 71999 x 25% = 18000
28% ($142,701–$217,450) 74749 x 28% = 20930
33% ($217,451–$388,350) 82549 x 33% = 27241
35% (over $388,350) Total = 75906
Single: 2013
15.0% ($0–$35,500) 35500 x 15% = 5325
28.0% ($35,501–$86,000) 50499 x 28% = 14140
31.0% ($86,001–$179,400) 93399 x 31% = 28954
36.0% ($179,401–$390,050) 120599 x 36% = 43416
39.6% (over $390,050) Total = 91835
Married filing jointly: 2013
15.0% ($0–$59,300) 59300 x 15% = 8895
28.0% ($59,301–$143,350) 84049 x 28% = 23534
31.0% ($143,351–$218,450) 75099 x 31% = 23281
36.0% ($218,451–$390,050) 81549 x 36% = 29358
39.6% (over $390,050) Total = 85068
Summary – Single Person
91835 – 83527 = 8308 increase (seems to be a lot more than 1500 to me, how about you?)
Summary – Married Couple
85068 – 75906 = 9162 increase (seems to be a lot more than 1500 to me, how about you?)
Capital gains
2012 2013?
Short-term gains are taxed as ordinary income.
Long-term gains are taxed at 0% if total income including capital gains puts you in the 10% or 15% brackets; 15% if total income including capital gains puts you in the 25% or higher bracket.
Short-term gains will be taxed as ordinary income.
Long-term gains will be taxed at 10% if you’re in the 15% bracket; 20% for all other brackets.
Additional Medicare tax on investment income explained below.
Dividends
2012 2013?
Taxed at ordinary income rate unless held for more than 60 days during the 121-day period that begins 60 days before the ex-dividend date. All will be subject to ordinary income rates. “Qualifying” dividends will disappear.
Additional Medicare tax on investment income explained below.
Estate, gift, and generation-skipping taxes
2012 2013?
Exemption: $5.12 million
Tax rate: 35% Exemption: $1 million
Tax rate: 55%
Medicare taxes
(changes stemming from 2010 health care legislation)
2012 2013?
Flat 2.9% tax rate on salary and/or self-employment income. Additional 0.9% tax on salary and/or self-employment income:
Above $200,000, if single.
Above $250,000 (combined), if married filing jointly.
Above $125,000, if married filing separately.
Additional 3.8% tax on net investment income (including long-term capital gains and dividends) if adjusted gross income exceeds:
$200,000 (single).
$250,000 (married filing jointly).
$125,000 (married filing separately).
Sources: IRS, Forbes magazine.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
7:54 pm
0311@7:47
We are working on it, keep up with the loser shenanigans and in 2014 we’ll just have to finish the job! The iced tea party is too busy giving 8 million dollar payouts – to be taken seriously again, what a scam!!!
weetamoe
December 11th, 2012
7:54 pm
The smoking gun is the toxic cloud.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
7:55 pm
Mick, that is the Vanilla Iced Tea Party.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
7:56 pm
Except for the U.S. Congress and a multitude of State Governors and legislatures.
Geez is right. The Senate is majority Democrat, the House is majority Republican and the Executive is Democrat. Then, there are also a multitude of Democrat governors and legislatures. But you knew that already, didn’t you.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:01 pm
Apparently, they have caught the shooter and he has been “neutralized.” Thank God!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
8:02 pm
“I can’t understand why you or any other conservative chooses to squash someone’s right to peacefully assemble, a right which is protected by the Constitution.”
With all due respect brocephus what in the hell are you talking about? Who amongst us cons is talking about squashing someone’s right to peacefully assemble? Where in the hell do you see that?
As for an assault on organized labor we see it 2 different ways. You look at it that way and I look at it as a union bullying people into joining. And that to me is an assault on a man’s freedom.
“It’s easy for one to preach about working hard and such when you have a cushy job with cushy pay.”
My job aint exactly cushy and nobody is giving me a check. I have to earn it and without anyone’s help. And my first 2 years in this business I damn near starved. I’m only now truly reaping the rewards years later. People see me now taking time off to goof off or do whatever I want like blog all day because I have a nice residual income built up and coming in whether I work or not. What they don’t see and respect is how hard I had to work to get here. And I aint even rich-I got a long, long way to go to get there.
“I’m willing to bet that nary a conservative who preaches that stuff would say the same thing if they worked 2 miles underground everyday breathing in coal dust while trying to earn a living for their family.”
And you would be wrong. Half my uncles on my mother’s side were coal miners and a few of them died from black lung way back in the day- grandpa died from it. They were union members and damn proud of it. They all evetually ended up losing their jobs because the coal companys were forced to innovate with more technology due to ever escalating labor costs. Now they do other things. Several are retired but the 2 youngest uncles are now small busiess men. And they vote Republican and they do in fact blame the unions for the job losses. Same with uncle John who retired from a GM auto plant in Buffalo at only 52. He worked there back in the heyday but still complained over the crap that the unions did. And he was a union member.
“It’s all about perspectives, and when you sit on the toilet, you have no idea of where your sh*t flows. When you’re at the end of that pipe, you have no idea of where the sh*t comes from, but you have to deal with it day in and day out.”
Yeah. It is. And you maybe need to hear the perspective of relatives who’ve been in big unions and who’ve seen those unions destroy jobs and companies. I’ve seen both perspectives and while there are instances and times were unions are certainly needed and are a good thing I just believe the pendulum has swing too far in one direction. It is starting to now swing the other way. Who knows? In 20 years it may very well swing back the other way if employers push to far and don’t pay people fairly.
weetamoe
December 11th, 2012
8:04 pm
What a pretty chart. The Michigan legislature passes a law and union thugs beat people up, tear down and trample a tent with women and children inside. A whole buncha pictures out there. Jay puts up a chart. Oh what a pretty chart.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
8:05 pm
Good news today:
1) Michigan stikes a blow for freedom re: “Right to Work” !
2) HEADLINE (ABC): “Appeals Court Strikes Down Illinois Law Prohibiting Concealed Carry”
“In a major victory for gun rights advocates, a federal appeals court on Tuesday struck down a ban on carrying concealed weapons in Illinois — the only remaining state where carrying concealed weapons is entirely illegal — and gave lawmakers 180 days to write a law that legalizes it.”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/court-strikes-illinois-concealed-carry-law-17934651#.UMePNgrWzL4.email
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
8:06 pm
Aaaaaand the little sandflea takes a nip. Too funny.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
Hey! you’re wife’s a b*tch. The boss is an *sshole. Liberals are *ssholes. Take your AK-47 to the mall and kill a few people. You’ll feel much better!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
“A whole buncha pictures out there. Jay puts up a chart. Oh what a pretty chart.”
Charts are pertyer than ugly union violence.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
8:08 pm
** it may very well swing back the other way if employers push to far and don’t pay people fairly.**
We are there man…
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
8:09 pm
“The following is a list of incumbent governors of the states and territories of the United States. There are currently 29 Republicans, 20 Democrats, and 1 Independent holding the office of governor in the states.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_governors
“There are 27 Republican Controlled State Legislatures, 19 Democrat, 3 Split and 1 Non-Partisan”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_state_legislatures
YAWN !
Mick
December 11th, 2012
8:11 pm
What about those pleasant corporate thugs at hostess? Screw the little guy and his pensions. That’s a nice kick in the ass if you’re in your fifties, leeches!!!
Mick
December 11th, 2012
8:13 pm
Governor rick “the disaster” scott is DOA in 2014. One less regressive in the pack…
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
8:14 pm
Scout yawns as though he accomplished something strenuous. Like I said, Congress is not Republican and there are a multitude of Democrat governors and legislatures. Yawn!
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
8:14 pm
With all due respect brocephus what in the hell are you talking about? Who amongst us cons is talking about squashing someone’s right to peacefully assemble? Where in the hell do you see that?
Denying people the opportunity to organize is just that. That’s where in the hell I see that. It’s quite telling that you, a supposed member of the Party that respects and reveres the Constitution, don’t see that at all.
As for an assault on organized labor we see it 2 different ways. You look at it that way and I look at it as a union bullying people into joining. And that to me is an assault on a man’s freedom.
Just because you see something a certain way does not mean that your view is right and all others are wrong, just as my view may not be correct. In this instance, I would suggest that you further educate yourself on union rules, and just for you, I will post this once again. Even Erwin’s Cat admitted that he didn’t know the information that I posted earlier.
http://www.nrtw.org/a/a_1_p.htm
Question: Can I be required to be a union member or pay dues to a union?
Answer: You may not be required to be a union member. But, if you do not work in a Right to Work state, you may be required to pay union fees.
Employment relations for almost all private sector employees (other than those in the airline and railroad industries) are covered by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA).
Under the NLRA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees.
Even if there is such a provision in the agreement, the most that can be required of you is to pay the union fees (generally called an “agency fee.”) Most employees are not told by their employer and union that full union membership cannot lawfully be required. In Pattern Makers v. NLRB, 473 U.S. 95 (1985), the United States Supreme Court held that union members have the right to resign their union membership at any time.
[...]
The Supreme Court, in Communication Workers v. Beck, 487 U.S. 735 (1988), a lawsuit that was supported by the Foundation, ruled that objecting nonmembers cannot be required to pay union dues. The most that nonmembers can be required to pay is an agency fee that equals their share of what the union can prove is its costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment with their employer.
Except in extraordinary cases, the union’s costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment do not equal the dues amount.
In short, unless the union and management agreed that every person that works the job has to join the union, NOBODY can force you to join a union. Therefore, your whole viewpoint of people being bullied into joining a union is a viewpoint that has no basis in fact. The Supreme Court disagrees with you and the NLRB disagrees with you as well.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
8:15 pm
Breitbart Folks Appear to Fake Violence in Lansing
When I saw this video–claiming that a “violent mob” destroyed the tent the Koch brothers had paid for in front of the Michigan Capitol–I knew right away it was likely a false flag. After all, Stranahan, James O’Keefe’s buddy, first posted it. Within minutes it was up at Drudge.
All this, in spite of the fact that witnesses say the Americans for Prosperity people were trying to provoke union members to violence, and witnesses reportedly saw AFP people loosening the ropes on the tents so they would come down.
Lynnie Gal
December 11th, 2012
8:16 pm
Talk about a miracle. (Some) Republicans have burst their protective bubble of ignorance, which I suppose involves tuning Fox News out after the election debacle.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
8:16 pm
Breitbart Folks Appear to Fake Violence in Lansing
Well what did you expect from cons.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
8:20 pm
And you maybe need to hear the perspective of relatives who’ve been in big unions and who’ve seen those unions destroy jobs and companies. I’ve seen both perspectives and while there are instances and times were unions are certainly needed and are a good thing I just believe the pendulum has swing too far in one direction.
Does the United Steelworkers and United Rubberworkers count as big unions? My grandfather was a steel worker, and he raised me. I had uncles and my father were rubber workers. I belong to NTEU. I’ve seen it all, and I’ve heard it all. The pendulum has swung too far, but it’s not all the fault of unions. Unless things have changed, it takes two parties to negotiate. Steelworkers in the US got sh*tted on because of cheap imports more than anything else. When our country allows foreigners to dump their cheap sh*t on us without protecting workers here at home, of course people will blame the unions for wages and stuff. That’s only looking at things halfway because there were two parties at the table that negotiated those wages.
I look forward to the day that people start taking blame for their own actions instead of blaming others. Trying to blame everything on unions is nothing more that letting the managment/owners off the hook for their part of the negotiations. Usually, they’re the ones lobbying for the “free trade” and other stuff that eroded our working class anyway. So, when there are middle class people, such as yourself, who demonize other middle class workers just because of their affiliation with unions, you do more to harm this country than the unions themselves.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
8:21 pm
Paul? Where are you Paul? $1500 my rear end. Try $8308 (single) or $9162 (MFJ). I beat your 30 minute deadline, even though I was not aware of it. I takes time to multiply all those numbers and type them in on the blog. Where are you?
Dekalb comments
December 11th, 2012
8:21 pm
Demographic changes are happening. Whether the GOP attempts to change the minds of the oncoming electorate or not is one question. But they are coming and will relegate the pukkkes to the dustbin of history if they are not careful.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
8:21 pm
Kam, and yet some posters of garbage and stupidity will claim that unions did this just like the false claims they attributed to OWS.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
8:22 pm
emptywheelspam
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
8:24 pm
Kooks thinking that other kooks blogs are real news. Fun-knee! They do like they openwheelspam they do.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
8:26 pm
Keep
You nailed it, and with a minute to spare.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
8:27 pm
**So, when there are middle class people, such as yourself, who demonize other middle class workers just because of their affiliation with unions, you do more to harm this country than the unions themselves.**
Pure poetry!!! Preach it brother or why even bother? If this is a cycle, then the old battles will have to be re-fought. In this day and age, it might even be more difficult, too many droids walking around connected to their phones 24/7, the apathy is epidemic. You reap what you sow, good luck younger american folk, you’re going to friggin need it!!!
Bill Campbell
December 11th, 2012
8:28 pm
Obama is the worst President in American History!
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
8:28 pm
In 1933 Adolph Hitler ended collective bargaining and any other rights that unions usually called for and drastically lowered wages in Germany.
The Republicans, beginning with Reagan, have been trying to figure out a way to do it here.
One of the reasons they will hopefully keep getting crushed every other November…
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
8:30 pm
“Obama is the worst President in American History!”
Now that you got that off your chest…do you feel better?
real john
December 11th, 2012
8:31 pm
Jay,
One of, (if not the biggest) qualities a leader must possess is the ability to make tough decisions.
Of course if you said, I’m going to take something away from you, most people are not going to be for that. However, most Americans don’t have access to the same information as Senators and members of Congress. Entitlement reform is a must. I don’t think anyone Dem or Rep would disagaree on that.
However, to due that, inevitably most people probably will see a cut. S.S. and Medicare weren’t designed to last 25 years. Did you know as recently as the 1970s the average retiree only drew S.S for 4 years until they died??
The Repubs have offered over $800 billion in tax increases the Dems so covet. All they are asking is for the President to offer some spending cuts. See JAY THAT’S WHAT A COMPROMISE MEANS. BOTH PARTIES DON’T GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT. However, according to you, and your liberal lemmings, the Repubs are the obstructionist. Where has Obama offered anything as to a compromise?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
8:31 pm
All those inflated union wages, and it’s still not enough to suit some folks.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
8:32 pm
Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
8:34 pm
“All they are asking is for the President to offer some spending cuts”
Well, see…he has. But een if he hadn’t…he wouldn’t have to. All he’s got to do is sit tight and they spending cuts will kick in on Jan 2.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:35 pm
How come none of the kids had great Moms like this when I was in school? Why? TELL ME!
Recon 0311 2533
December 11th, 2012
8:37 pm
Jay with his charts and polls. We don’t know the questions asked in this poll but regardless of self described Republicans or Democrats it’s about the debt crises stupid. Jay and his fellow far-left Democrats are having multiple cerebral orgasms thinking they’ve won some kind of a national mandate, which is a joke given the rather slim reelection national vote margin for Obama. The reality of this country’s real economic crises goes beyond the so called fiscal cliff but isn’t that far off and the far-left captive Dem party will be finally forced to prove they know what they’re doing. Proving governing competence will prove to be an insurmountable challenge for this administration. Fasten your seat belts America.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
8:38 pm
“Steelworkers in the US got sh*tted on because of cheap imports more than anything else. When our country allows foreigners to dump their cheap sh*t on us without protecting workers here at home, of course people will blame the unions for wages and stuff.”
Well for once we are in full agreement.
“Trying to blame everything on unions is nothing more that letting the managment/owners off the hook for their part of the negotiations.”
Nope. Management also usually has culpability as well as in the case of Hostess. But the unions demanding that twinkies and wonderbread be carried on different trucks does not increase pay- it simply introduces costly inefficiencies to that business. Both are to blame but costly union demands that have nothing to do with perhour wages don’t help.
“Usually, they’re the ones lobbying for the “free trade” and other stuff that eroded our working class anyway.”
Wrong. As Jay’s econ article pointed out long ago and as practically any economist agrees the world is better off with free trade. There will be short term winners and losers but overall we are better off. You have repeatedly over and over and over made the mistake of thinking that if we lose unskilled labor jobs such as textile jobs to outsourcing that its a bad thing. And that is simply not true. But yet you continue to persist in this fallacious economic belief.
“So, when there are middle class people, such as yourself, who demonize other middle class workers just because of their affiliation with unions, you do more to harm this country than the unions themselves.”
I don’t demonize union members themselves as plenty of family members including my sister in law are union members or have been. I do demonize the union leadership of some unions who are thuggish and misguided in my view. And I do demonize union members who engage in physical violence against others simply because they believe differently. They deserve it. And I think they do more harm to themselves and their cause with unrealistic demands, selfishness, and violent protests than ole Doomy ever could.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
8:40 pm
Nunna, American fascism has had its 30 year run. Time for the cons to self deport to Brazil…
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
8:41 pm
I sure hope they don’t go back to those 2001 level personal exemptions and standard deductions though because that would really hurt the poor wealthiest something terrible, not to mention the fate of earned income credits and other such things:
2012:
Personal exemption and standard deduction:
Single: $9750
Married Filing Jointly: $19,500
2001:
Personal exemption and standard deduction:
Single: $7450
Married Filing Jointly: $13,400
All totaled, poor Erwin is gonna get stuck with an extra 12k tax bill if all those taxes revert to the 2001 level and I doubt that estimate even includes the changes in deductions and exemptions and credits and such. If only Bush and the Republicans had made their tax cuts and such permanent back when they wrote and passed that legislation, none of this would even be an issue now. That’s a shame. A real shame.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions.
Damn those Honda unions.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
The pendulum has swung too far…….
What is the union membership in terms of the workforce?
10 or 12%?
And yes, there are contracts out there that some unions play hard ball with during hard times and it doesn’t help out the workers.
And no I have never been part of a union. Yes, I do know those who have been: friends and family. I have heard mixed reviews.
The few Republicans I know that are in one are called pilots. They don’t seem to poo poo their’s too much.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:44 pm
Apparently the shooter was using an AR-15 (M16) rifle.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
8:46 pm
Recon
If you click on the link provided in the article, I believe it will provide you with the questions and details of the poll
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
8:46 pm
“Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions”
Judging by the number of cars I see…we must have one HELL of a lot of uncommon men around here
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
8:48 pm
Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions.
Unions don’t decide where to build the manufacturing plant.
Unions don’t decide who designs the manufacturing plant.
Unions don’t decide who builds the manufacturing plant.
Unions don’t decide where the raw materials com from.
Unions don’t decide how the raw materials get there.
Unions don’t decide what is manufactured.
Unions don’t decide who advertises what is manufactured.
Unions don’t decide the advertising campaign once the ad agency is chosen.
Unions don’t decide where the product is distributed.
Unions don’t decide how the product is distributed.
Unions don’t decide which tools are used to manufacture the product.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:50 pm
Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions
Even with the “lavish” union benefits afforded to workers prior to the collapse of 2009 (including pension and medical benefits) line labor accounted for only between 8 – 10% of the wholesale cost of a new car.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
8:50 pm
The company claims union work rules won’t let them consolidate, but you know that’s BS- you’ve been through “dovetailing” by seniority before, and had a year long layoff to prove it. You and the other drivers suspect they keep the operations separate to avoid laying off all the multiple managers
But yet some posters keep posting garbage as if their “belief” is the only truth. How silly.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
8:50 pm
weetamoe: “The Michigan legislature passes a law and union thugs beat people up, tear down and trample a tent with women and children inside”
Only thugs I see are the ones in the legislature attacking workers and their paymasters.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:53 pm
3 dead including shooter in mall shooting.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
8:57 pm
Nunna the Yob: “Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions”
The diametrical opposite is the truth of course. If there is one measure that is in direct proportion to the decline in American wages, and thus purchasing power, it is the strength of unions.
No unions, no middle class, resulting in sagging consumer demand .It’s that simple.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:00 pm
N. Korea just launched another rocket.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:02 pm
“Denying people the opportunity to organize is just that”- Brocephus
So are you saying that unions cannot organize in a right to work state? Cause Alabama is right to work state. And my sister is in a union there. As was I when I was a teamster working at UPS back in the day. Please clarify.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
9:03 pm
**You have repeatedly over and over and over made the mistake of thinking that if we lose unskilled labor jobs such as textile jobs to outsourcing that its a bad thing.
Any dollar moving out of the country is a bad thing…see mercantilism 101…
Rightwing Troll
December 11th, 2012
9:04 pm
Funny how you all “conservative” moochers can see the ass whupping you just took, call the glass overflowing and a mandate for your failed and dishonest policies… but can’t acknowledge that things are WAY better now than they were when W left office, calling that glass totally empty… this is why you just lost what should’ve been a slam dunk win… your lies, delusions, and dishonesty.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:04 pm
Management also usually has culpability as well as in the case of Hostess. But the unions demanding that twinkies and wonderbread be carried on different trucks does not increase pay- it simply introduces costly inefficiencies to that business. Both are to blame but costly union demands that have nothing to do with perhour wages don’t help.
And all management has to say is N-O. Unions can’t run the business without a contract or a job. The power always lies with managment or owners. They can simply liquidate or hire outsiders unaffiliated with the union. Nice try, but the liability is equal, and if not more on owners as they still have the upper hand in negotiations. Way to let them off the hook again though. You’re one of the best I’ve ever seen at doing that.
As Jay’s econ article pointed out long ago and as practically any economist agrees the world is better off with free trade. There will be short term winners and losers but overall we are better off.
Yeah, zero job growth makes us better off. Stagnant wages makes us better off. Sounds like something that economists would say. What happens when everybody’s working for $7.50 an hour? Who’s gonna buy things then?
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional
December 11th, 2012
9:06 pm
At twenty we worry about what others think of us;
at forty we don’t care about what others think of us;
at sixty we discover they haven’t been thinking about us at all;
at eighty we don’t MATTER in the minds of the CONS.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:06 pm
I am pretty sure there are several large corporations in Georgia that are union shops. Lockheed, UPS, AT&T all come to mind.
What is wrong with unions in right to work states?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:07 pm
They BOTH: The few Republicans I know that are in one are called pilots. They don’t seem to poo poo their’s too much.
Would you expect them to? Pilots are the one group that I will stand up and say deserves the wages they ask for. After witnessing pilots landing in tropical storm weather with winds pushing planes all over the place, I have no problem with them asking for premium pay. The last thing I want is a minimum wage pilot flying me through turbulent weather.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:08 pm
Nunna the Yob: “Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions”
Oh good Lord. I better step in and launch a conservative missile of truth into the liberal wall of lies- not to mention outright lib ignorance and gobbledeegook hyperbole.
When Congress debated the bailout package for Detroit, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell and other Republicans had demanded that wages and benefits for employees of U.S. automakers needed to be renegotiated to match the lesser overall compensation that foreign carmakers like Toyota, Honda and Nissan pay at their U.S. plants.
The Associated Press reported that, for example, the average United Auto Workers member makes $29.78 per hour at GM, while Toyota pays its workers (most of whom are non-union) about $30 per hour. However, when total benefits (including pensions and health care for workers, retirees and their spouses) is factored in, GM’s total hourly labor costs is about $69, while Toyota’s is about $48.- CBS news
Advantage- Toyota plants in the U.S. Plain and simple.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:08 pm
Correction. Advantage- Non-Union Toyota plants in the U.S. Plain and simple.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:09 pm
The CEO of Ford was quoted serveral years ago stating that they paid more in benefits than they did for steel. I see no reason to doubt him.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:10 pm
So are you saying that unions cannot organize in a right to work state?
No, that is not what I said. Passing these bogus and unnecessary laws simply to bust up unions is what’s keeping people from organizing. Used to be that people could vote to organize and were protected from retaliation. Nowadays, politicians appear to make it easy as hell for organization attempts to be squashed.
Clear enough?
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:10 pm
“What is wrong with unions in right to work states?”
I dunno. I’m getting cricket chirps on that question too.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:11 pm
The CEO of Ford was quoted serveral years ago stating that they paid more in benefits than they did for steel.
And that is a bad thing?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:12 pm
Bro
Not knocking them at all, but I do find it ironic.
Back in the day we used to call them the APA the most Republican based union in America.
Had one tell me years ago, If the CEO has no problem and a right to have his personal attorney helping him negotiate the best deal for himself with the company, why shouldn’t I have someone doing it on my behalf?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:12 pm
conservative missiles of truth? Are those the same ones used to attack Wisconsin wedding parties?
And then a clownish comparison of legacy costs thrown in on top of hourly wages.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
9:13 pm
Thulsa: that’s an old analogy. The reason Toyota’s are lower is that they don’t have “legacy” costs like GM, i.e., they don’t have workers who have worked all of their lives and retired and are living on their pensions and are receiving healthcare.
Like I said in an earlier post, even WITH all of these legacy costs, the line labor only accounts for 8 – 10% of the wholesale costs of a new car.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:13 pm
Well Kam, if you can’t figure out that answer I can’t help you. Benefits, not wages, cost more than the material to build the car?
Don Abernethy
December 11th, 2012
9:14 pm
The direction Obama is heading these past few weeks indicates he will probably be a dictator within a year and there will be no more GOP. Thanks Democrats you really know how to elect trouble.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:15 pm
Darth Barack.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:15 pm
“Heard a lady on a local radio talk show today who advised the host that her son had just been promoted to “trustee” at the local jail.
She added he was the only son who ever amounted to anything.”
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:15 pm
Benefits, not wages, cost more than the material to build the car?
No, you specifically said “steel”.
An automobile is made of only steel?
If you can’t figure out that answer, I can’t help you.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:16 pm
I am pretty sure there are several large corporations in Georgia that are union shops. Lockheed, UPS, AT&T all come to mind.
What is wrong with unions in right to work states?
Damn, how many times do I have to repeat this for you freeloading advocates? The only difference between unions in RTW states and Non-RTW states is that the people who advocate the RTW laws are codifying mooching and freeloading. Nobody has to join a union in any state in the country.
In Non-RTW states, unions can collect the bargaining fee from non-members, but they can not force a worker to join the union. The only exception is when the company and the union agree, through a CBA, that everybody has to join the union. This has been backed up by SCOTUS ruling and the NLRB.
In RTW states, a worker can collect the benefits of the CBA done between the company and union, but they do not have to pay a single penny towards the negotiation of those benefits.
Basically, someone does the work to gain whatever benefits they can, and Republicans are passing laws so that freeloaders can benefit without paying. That’s really funny considering the rallying cry of Republicans have been all about takers vs makers. You lose any ground to that argument when you legislate taking as your idea.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
9:16 pm
“The direction Obama is heading these past few weeks indicates he will probably be a dictator within a year ”
I don’t envy you the headache you’ll have tomorrow morning
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:17 pm
OK one of the principal materials in a car. Feel better Kam?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:18 pm
Bro, try getting a job with a unionized company without joining the union. Puh-leaze.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
9:19 pm
[I]n the US, it takes about 30 hours total, for the body, engine, transmission, assembly, paint, etc. doesn’t include things like outsourced parts and mining the ore (or recycling old cars). the labor costs from $55-$70 per hour including benefits so about $2100 per car, or roughly 8% the cost of the average car.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:19 pm
Union violence …………….. as usual.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
Where is Paul’s refutation of my tax calculations?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
Don
Your whoppers and delusions grow bigger and darker each time you post………….
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
They BOTH
I’d pit APA against IUPA and FOP for the title of “Most Republican Union”. If you notice, every single labor attack that’s been done recently have specifically exempted police and fire.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:22 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
Try reading up on Beck Rights. You’ll be that much more informed, that is, if you actually want to arm yourself with the truth.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:22 pm
Poor sucker union employees. Going out on strike while the union officials get rich off them. (Read Mafia (see Jimmy Hoffa for clarification).
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:23 pm
O.K. …………….. you knew it was coming !!!!
Ohhhhhh …………………………………………………………………………………..
“Everybody stand up and holler for the union,
Let’s give the brotherhood a cheer.
Everybody stand up and holler for the union,
We ain’t hit a lick all year !”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:23 pm
All I know is that my brother who works in a unionized state and business, had to join the union if he wanted a job.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:24 pm
“So are you saying that unions cannot organize in a right to work state?”-Doom
“No, that is not what I said”- Doom
You sure about that Bro? Cause you were doing some awful loud complaining something about interfering with people’s consitutional right to assemble. You did say that did you not?
“Passing these bogus and unnecessary laws simply to bust up unions is what’s keeping people from organizing.”
So how are they keeping unions from organizing. For example when UPS hired seasonal help a couple of months ago in a right to work state like Alabama how was it that a new employee could readily join the union right then and there when he signed on? How was he prevented from joining a union and how does this apply to right to work states? Your argument aint holding much water.
“Used to be that people could vote to organize and were protected from retaliation.”
So how are they not protected from retaliation in a right to work state?
“Nowadays, politicians appear to make it easy as hell for organization attempts to be squashed.” Well now do they “appear” to make it easy as hell for organization attempts to be squashed or do they actually make it easier for organization attempts to be squashed?
I do remember a rule that the unions wanted where in a vote to unionize or non unionize that the workers had to show which way they voted. Ballots could not be secret which is one of our most cherished rights- the secret vote. That got squashed for the obvious reason. Because if a person voted against the union and the union won then the employee is open to harassment and intimidation by the union heads for initially voting against a union. So tell me. Is that the kind of intimidation and bullying that you might be referring to?
td
December 11th, 2012
9:24 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:16 pm
In theory you are correct but in practically I am calling BS on your statement. I worked for Lockheed and there is no way a person going to work for the company could last more then a month without joining the union.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:24 pm
Nunna, child, Paul told you he was leaving at a certain time to do other things. So why don’t you trot over to the buffoonery corner with your whine and have some crackers. Keep your eyes open. There’s a thug clown car driven by some drunken idiot posting garbage as if it represents reality. Don’t let them conn you into getting in with them.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:27 pm
I do remember a rule that the unions wanted where in a vote to unionize or non unionize that the workers had to show which way they voted. Ballots could not be secret which is one of our most cherished rights- the secret vote
Nope. you might want to get checked for Alzheimer’s cause your memory is wayyyyyy off.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
9:27 pm
…there will be no more GOP.
If that is so – and it is not – it will be because of you, Donovan.
And all of the other modern Republicans who are killing that political party. Killing it with extremism that is bordering on fascism. You are completely intolerant and insular. You detest our government. You view damn near everybody – domestic and foreign – as an enemy. Or at a minimum lazy and stupid moochers.
Take some responsibility and own that.
And to the extent that you will never change – and I don’t believe you will – I am here to help you on your suicide mission!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:28 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:18 pm
Bro, try getting a job with a unionized company without joining the union. Puh-leaze.
It aint gonna happen in Pittsburgh according to what my family tells me.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:28 pm
Bro
With union membership at 12% or less and most jobs that have been shipped overseas being non-union, it is mostly talking points and rallying cries for the right.
Unions like management have surely made bad decisions over the years, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth in terms of unions when looking at the overall workforce is as much rhetoric and hyperbole as anything.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:29 pm
Bumper Sticker:
“My Child was Inmate of the Month at the Cobb County Youth Detention Center”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:29 pm
Keep – I beat his deadline (which I had no idea he had issued until I finished posting the information on the blog.) If you will go back and read his posts from last week, you will see the he insulted me repeatedly because I said a person with $300k in taxable income would pay more than $1500 in tax increases. He then hemmed and hawed around and basically refused to even think about what I had shown him. He dismissed the facts in typical lib fashion.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:29 pm
Doom
Your argument about UPS holds about as much weight as a sieve holds water. UPS already has a CBA with unions. Try to organize at WalMart in Alabama and see what happens. That’s what I’m talking about. You know damn well that nobody’s stopping UPS workers from organizing as they already have union representation. I’m talking about companies that actively fight attempts to organize.
Geez, and you talk about others being kooks. Either you’re completely clueless or purposefully being obtuse.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
td @ 9:24
If that were so on a grand scale, where iare the lawsuits against the unions or those pushing and forcing the indivdual to join?
Is it all a tight secret?
Maybe it has happend.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
Shouldn’t our military be union ?
You know, fair wages …….. workers rights and all ?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
td
You can call BS all you want. The Supreme Court, NLRB, and law proves you wrong. It doesn’t suprise me that you would take that stand though, as you often appear to pick the losing team.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
He dismissed the facts in typical lib fashion.
There’s your sign.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:32 pm
So tell me. Is that the kind of intimidation and bullying that you might be referring to?
Nope. I’m referring to threats from the company themselves. I have no problem with holding secret ballots and I thought that open ballot law sucked ass.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:32 pm
Kam – I know. Facts didn’t suit him so he ignored them. Just like I said.
Tundra Dude
December 11th, 2012
9:34 pm
Keep:
And then a clownish comparison of legacy costs thrown in on top of hourly wages.
Exactly.
Ford’s Labor Costs Divided by Hours of Work Is NOT Their Hourly Compensation
Thursday, 13 January 2011
The NYTimes told readers that Ford’s labor cost for a worker is now $59 an hour, which is says is down 20 percent from what it used to be. It is important to recognize that this number is not what Ford is paying for current workers’ pay and benefits. This includes all payments that Ford makes for labor, including contributions to its pension and health funds for workers who are already retired.
This is an important distinction. Unionized auto workers are paid more than the typical worker, but their pay is not as out of line as this figure implies.
(from; Beat the Press blog)
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
It appears that Doomy’s memory is working just fine. I’m just glad no idiot out there would suggest otherwise.
The controversy was over card check. From Wiki
Under the proposed Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), if the NLRB verifies that over 50% of the employees signed authorization cards, the secret ballot election is bypassed and a union is automatically formed. Introduced in the U.S. Congress in 2005 and reintroduced in 2007[1] and 2009,[2] the EFCA provides that the NLRB would recognize the union’s role as the official bargaining representative if a majority of employees have authorized that representation via majority sign-up (card check), without requiring a secret ballot election.[3] Under The EFCA, if over 30% and fewer than 50% of employees sign a petition or authorization cards, the NLRB would still order a secret ballot election for union representation.
Unions do love they intimidation they do. So does Brocephus support this kind of bullying and intimidation?
Those who oppose card check argue it strips workers of their right to a secret ballot. They also argue that even though gathering a majority of card signers might imply that a secret ballot would be unnecessary, signers could be coerced to sign through intimidation and pressure, making it an inaccurate mechanism for determining employee support for unionization. Many business organizations, including The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, oppose the implementation of card check. From its website:
Under the existing law today, workers have a chance to vote for or against unionization in a private-ballot election that is federally supervised. Under Card Check, if more than 50% of workers at a facility sign a card, the government would have to certify the union, and a private ballot election would be prohibited–even if workers want one. By forcing workers to sign a card in public – instead of vote in private – card check opens the door to intimidation and coercion. Over 70% of voters agree that a private election is better than card check.[9]
The National Restaurant Association lists three points in opposition to card check on its website.
“1. A card-check process increases the risk of coercion. When a union tries to organize a workplace, employees sometimes face intimidation and pressure about how they should vote, from the union, management, or both. The best way to protect employees from coercion is through the continued use of a federally supervised, private-ballot process.
2. Private ballots are a basic American right. The entire American system is based on respect for individual liberty and democracy. If Congress passes this proposal, they will strip away the protections that federally protected, democratic elections provide for American workers.
3. An employee’s decision to join a union should be made in private. Employees should not have to reveal to anyone — employers or unions — how they exercise their right to choose whether to organize with their co-workers in a union. Moving to a card-check process rather than a federally supervised election tramples on employee privacy. An employee’s decision to join a union should be made in private, protected from any coercion by unions, employers or co-workers.[10]
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
td
I hope you are not getting your info from Dick Morris and Karl Rove. We know how you like to tout those two and we also know their recent track records………….
just sayiing
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
It’s my understanding that the Dutch military is unionized.
Shouldn’t we be going the way of socialist Europe ……….. you know, progressive and all ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces_of_the_Netherlands
Tundra Dude
December 11th, 2012
9:36 pm
Must be them thar Union Thugs responsible for the success of the auto industry in Germany.
How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much
http://onforb.es/sJiRcI
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:36 pm
“Aye Aye Union boss ……… yes sir !”
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:37 pm
Unions do love they intimidation they do. So does Brocephus support this kind of bullying and intimidation?
It’s quite obvious that Doom can’t read plain English. See my 9:32 to understand why I said that.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:38 pm
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
How can there be a lawsuit over not having anything to do with you? No talking to you prior to work. No union member going to lunch with you. No union member speaking to you in the halls, at the water cooler or in the bathroom.
Like I said who is going to work at a place for more then a month or so when they know they are not welcome? All the person has to do is join the union and then everyone is your brother in arms.
GOP leading a crusade with very few followers – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Weight Loss Diet Plan
December 11th, 2012
9:39 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:40 pm
td – very astute observation.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:40 pm
Hmmm…them goal posts got moved real fast. typical garbage…say one thing and then try to support it by spin and lies.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:41 pm
Just like I said.
No, you’re moving the goalposts — yet again.
What you said was, “typical lib fashion”.
Paul is many things, but he is not a “typical lib”.
It’s painfully obvious that you knee jerk to assume that anyone who challenges you is a “typical lib.”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:41 pm
Give in to the dark side (oops, I mean union), it is the only way you can have any friends.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:41 pm
How can there be a lawsuit over not having anything to do with you? No talking to you prior to work. No union member going to lunch with you. No union member speaking to you in the halls, at the water cooler or in the bathroom.
Do you go to work to socialize or do you go to perform whatever tasks you get paid for? Sounds like a case of Merlot to me…
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:42 pm
td
WRONG……… So you say it happens, but you can’t site one case where someone was basically foreced to join and sued?
Is that correct?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:42 pm
Kam – his posts would suggest otherwise.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:43 pm
Bro, well its clear that only unions can be thugs, never company management in trying to stop unions.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
9:44 pm
Union busting is anti-American.
Talk about murderous thugs, look at the history of those who tried to keep collective bargaining from happening in this country.
The cons are today’s American fascists and Mussolini would have loved them…
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
Kam, Jam,Bro, et al, apparently you’ve not had much to do with the UAW unions in Detroit. They are much like your president, a bunch of thugs. Don’t even try to explain how “beneficial” these folks are, been there done that, they are only interested in there “machine”. GO MICHIGAN, right to work state!
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
Bro, it does wonders for the performance of your job when you co-workers won’t communicate with you.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
td @ 9:38
Have you also considered that the “silent treatment” came because you were freeloading the benefits without paying for them? Is that silent treatment any different than conservatives who currently wail about people collecting welfare, disability, or unemployment? Isn’t that what conservatives call mooching?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
td
Let me make it simple for you.
Are you saying that there are no workers in RTW states that decided not to join the union (meaning they are all in the union)?
There is not too many issues that either of us can bring up where we can’t come up with an example of something, but that in itself doesn’t mean it holds true across the board, does it? your example being Lockheed.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
“Try to organize at WalMart in Alabama and see what happens. That’s what I’m talking about.”
They tried that walkout in protest of working on Thanksgiving eve. Didn’t work.
“You know damn well that nobody’s stopping UPS workers from organizing as they already have union representation.”
Well not really. They have union representation if they choose it. Key word being choose. When I went to work at UPS I was strongly encouraged to join the union. But I still had a choice as to whether or not I wanted to. Perhaps you’re still not understanding the distinction about freedom and choice.
As for corporations trying to stop unionization efforts perhaps you need to step back from your pre-conceived ideas and let at the situation. Walmart for example does not want a union. And they educate their employees about why they oppose a union. But they do not intimidate their employees about unions. Not according to the Walmart employees that I’ve dealt with anyway.
And last why do you have a problem with them opposing a union? Its their company and its their damn right to oppose it if they think its bad for business. So why do you oppose them sticking up for their own rights as a company? Seems like you have a pretty one sided view of things.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:47 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
td
You can call BS all you want. The Supreme Court, NLRB, and law proves you wrong. It doesn’t suprise me that you would take that stand though, as you often appear to pick the losing team.
Lets see in 2010: My Vote for Gov, Lt Gov, AG, Labor, Insurance, Agriculture, PSC, local BOE, State House, State Senate, US HOR and US Senate all won.
In 2012, My Vote for State Senate, State House, US HOR, local Commissioner, Sheriff, Tax commissioner, PSC, 2 Judges all won but my vote for POTUS lost.
That means I have been correct 19 out of 20 times for a 95% accuracy rate. I bet you that that is better then your voting record.
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional
December 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
@Don Abernethy
December 11th, 2012
9:14 pm
The direction Obama is heading these past few weeks indicates he will probably be a dictator within a year and there will be no more GOP. Thanks Democrats you really know how to elect trouble.
======================================
Dictator?
Give us a break.
The GOP has fallen on their own SWORD.
Democrats know how to elect trouble?
“Borrow trouble for yourself, if that’s your nature, but don’t lend it to your neighbours.”
Rudyard Kipling
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
Bro that’s funny. Non-union workers freeloading? How about union “officials”. They freeload off of their union employees.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
USA Patriot
See my earlier posts. I’ve been around USW all my life.
http://www.uswalocal12.org/
I’ve seen the ups and downs, the good and the bad.
————————-
Nunna Yobinnes @ 9:45
If my job doesn’t require it, I prefer to work alone without interference. People not talking to me would be great. I don’t go to work to socialize.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
Bro
Problem had nothing to do with unions as much as he is a RICHARD
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
I don’t either but sometimes you have to work as a “team.”
td
December 11th, 2012
9:51 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
I did not receive the silent treatment because I was a member of the union. I saw it happen to a few others that all became members within a couple weeks of starting to work.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
9:51 pm
Faketriot,
My dad worked for Boeing and the Union Pacific Railroad.
He died young but my mom never had to worry too much.
Go sell your stupid, disgusting fascism somewhere else.
Like Brazil…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:52 pm
And last why do you have a problem with them opposing a union?
Once again for you, as it seems you have short term memory issues. I don’t have a problem either way. I don’t like when people rig the game either way. Negotiate in good faith as I see a man being as good as his word. If I can’t trust your word, I don’t trust you.
If a company treats their employees well, the employees won’t feel a need to organize. When employees feel a need to organize, maybe that’s a sign that the managment needs to sit down and see what the problems are. Nine times out of ten, things can be handled without unions interjecting.
Isn’t that how the free market works? A product is only as good as the demand for it. Remove the need for unionization, and unions will collapse on their own.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:53 pm
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
td
Let me make it simple for you.
Are you saying that there are no workers in RTW states that decided not to join the union (meaning they are all in the union)?
So what you are really saying is that you favor the government forcing a person to join a union to have a job.
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Yep, typical response from Jam. FYI! Just like the rest of your crowd, like “school on Sunday, no class”. SI
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
That means I have been correct 19 out of 20 times for a 95% accuracy rate. I bet you that that is better then your voting record.
Probably is as I don’t vote for D*cks simply because they have an (R) or (D) behind their names. In most recent elections, I have purposefully avoided voting for either party. Any other questions about my voting record?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Kam, Jam,Bro, et al, apparently you’ve not had much to do with the UAW unions in Detroit.
Apparently, you are wrong — again.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
9:55 pm
doom
Bow out gracefully – you just don’t get it or maybe you’re the devils advocate here. These are real people here, hard workers, mostly skilled and they deliver a good product. Let them bargain for the best deal they can get, it lifts all the trades instead of lowering them…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:57 pm
I don’t either but sometimes you have to work as a “team.”
My current job is no different. There is need to communicate, especially when dealing with someone who’s considered dangerous. I still don’t go to work to socialize. I tend to focus on what I’m doing and leave the water cooler stuff to those who enjoy that kind of stuff. I spend part of my free time looking at international news and such as that helps me understand the issues that I may run into.
Jm
December 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
Well if a poll says: commit fiscal suicide
Then surely we must do that
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
“Once again for you, as it seems you have short term memory issues. I don’t have a problem either way”
You say that on the one hand you don’t have a problem either way and then we see where you wrote that it seems that we’re trying to stop freedom of assembly, etc. It would seem to be you that is suffering from memory lapses from just a few posts earlier.
As for Walmart for example and many other companies they were not intimidated into rejecting union membership. Their employees simply don’t want it. The free market at work I guess.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:02 pm
They BOTH: Are you saying that there are no workers in RTW states that decided not to join the union (meaning they are all in the union)?
I doubt you’ll get td to answer truthfully as he’s still squawking that forced crap @ 9:53, even after being shown that’s not correct. I’ll give you an A+ for effort on trying to help the helpless though.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
10:03 pm
td
quit being stupid……. I said nothing of the sort and you know it.
Your RICHARD act as always gets old.
You spoke of Lockheed and the unions. No one should be forced to join anything and I asked you to show where they have been.
Best you have is some “silent treatment” issue, but no example of someone being “forced” as you stated.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
10:04 pm
Bro
He keeps deflecting and obfusating when pinned down with his own words. Same crap he does when I read his posts here and the other AJC blogs.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:04 pm
Mick,
I don’t have a problem with everyday hard working people desiring and wanting benefits and good pay. I stated that much earlier. I’m not fond of union thuggery by the people at the top or by stupid union rules that do nothing more than hamper business and create inefficiencies through some really dumb work rules. I would love it if every company out there had a union to negotiate 3 things- pay, health care plan, and vacation days. Very basic stuff. Its all the other work crap rules where I think unions are incredibly damaging.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
10:06 pm
As for Walmart for example and many other companies they were not intimidated into rejecting union membership
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:06 pm
You say that on the one hand you don’t have a problem either way and then we see where you wrote that it seems that we’re trying to stop freedom of assembly, etc.
Let me break it down so that you understand what I’m saying as you’re getting things mixed up.
I don’t have a problem either way with a workplace being unionized or not. If the employer treats the employees well, there is no need for a union. If the employer is giving the workers nine inches of flaccid penis without lube, then they should be able to organize to make the workplace better. That’s what I don’t have a problem with.
My problem comes from people intimidating those who have expressed the right to organize, whether it’s from the employer or the union. Most times, that intimidation is basically he said, she said allegations, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. That is what I consider stepping on someone’s right to peacefully assemble.
Does that help you out now?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
10:09 pm
Bro
td is not helpless. Willfully partisan and unwilling to admit anything can be positive if it doesn’t fit his narrative without a doubt. His problem is that he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is and just spins and spins when he can’t back out of the broad brushing he loves to do.
Oh well, nothing new.
Everyone have a great night and an even better tomorrow.
peace
Jm
December 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
Suicide squad!
td
December 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
10:03 pm
If you have worked anywhere for any time then you know as well as I that there are many people that do things at work that they do not want to do. If you have ever been in a managerial position then you know that the workers take care a lot of problems on their own that you do not have to even say a word about.
To answer you directly then no one is “forced” by a company to join a union in a RTW state to talk to you in reality then it happens every freaking day in union shops.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
10:12 pm
As a young 19 year old I was once a member (no choice) of the “Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen”.
I learned right away that they were out to:
1) Work jobs to maximize their hours of pay and overtime vs. efficiency (the union contract mandated using lanterns/fusees instead of faster and SAFER handheld radios).
2) Get paid for jobs they did not do (”roadwork” crew filing a grievance for having to take ten minutes to move a caboose which was “yardwork”).
3) Getting drunk (at work) engineers back on the job (I once witnessed a drunk engineer try to pull 200 loaded cars out of the yard with the brakes still on all of them). He got his job back.
4) Generally screwing with the Yardmaster and Trainmaster at every opportunity.
Then at age 22 (after my military “non-union” service) I worked for a railroad that was not unionized.
Breath of fresh air !!!
And guess what ……………. we used those handheld radios !
getalife
December 11th, 2012
10:13 pm
They bust the unions to screw the workers.
More self defeatism if the cons are the workers.
Anyhoo, what’s up with the secret mini shuttle?
I hope they don’t have to drill on a asteroid about to hit us.
The Mayans would be right.
td
December 11th, 2012
10:14 pm
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
10:09 pm
BTW: If you have ever really read what I have written on unions then you would know that I have no problem with private sector unions in RTW states because both management and workers have their jobs on the line to make sure that they do what is in the best interest of the company. I do not under any circumstance believe that government workers should have the right to organize.
Thomas
December 11th, 2012
10:14 pm
Good work on the blog. I am worried about my cholesterol- pass the cheesecake.
The majority of folks want to raise taxes on the 2 percenters.
In other breaking news most Catholics are hoping Notre Dame beats Alabama.
Hard to believe you get paid to write this crap and even harder to believe folks blog here 24/7
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
10:16 pm
Kam, FYI! You’ve never worked in The Motor City a day in your life!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:19 pm
I think sandflea needs to go and represent those thousands of state Walmark employees who he thinks were intimidated by Walmark into not joining a union. Should be an easy case for sandflea to prove? Right?
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
10:20 pm
Get – Just don’t get your logic, why would you want to work for an organization that limits you? D’oh, yeah, the benefits are sooo good, till the company goes belly up!?!? Nope, don’t use your talents, let them use you…..yep, that works!
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
10:20 pm
Poor scout, the evil railroadmen abducted him in the middle of the night and made him work for them. At overinflated wages, no less!
(If he had any honor he would send the money, with interest, back to them…)
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:21 pm
“Kam, FYI! You’ve never worked in The Motor City a day in your life!”
No but he did spend last night at a Holiday Inn express. It just didn’t make him any smarter is all. Or for that matter less dumb.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
JamVet:
It taught me a good lesson…………….never joined another union !
getalife
December 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
pat,
They save jobs, benefits and wages.
Why do you slobber all over the wealthy?
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Mooch, you mean it paid you a good lesson. Send the money back.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
You’ve never worked in The Motor City a day in your life!
FYI!
I never asserted that I did, sport.
FYI!
FYI! You got more sock-puppets than Shari Lewis.
FYI!
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Well Republicans can always explain to their constituency that the tax hikes across the board were necessary in order to pay for all their borrowing since 2001 that went to pay for their tax cuts and wars and drug company benefits and such. They’ll understand.
getalife
December 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
Tax,
Tell them the truth?
Never.
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
Get, again, why would one want to limit themselves? Makes no sense to me. Nope, don’t “slobber all over the wealthy”, just trying to join them. THEN, I’m not dependent on anyone! You can’t relate?
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
Poor scout, the evil railroadmen abducted him in the middle of the night and made him work for them. At overinflated wages, no less!
I heard that evil union even forced him to take regular breaks and he even had to quit work on time. It must have been horrible for a Republican to endure such things.
Tundra Dude
December 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
As for Walmart for example and many other companies they were not intimidated into rejecting union membership
This guy’s a mother lode of RBI (really bad info).
http://bit.ly/SPG135
Welfare to Wal-Mart And Wal-Mart to China: Uncle Sam’s Club’s New Twist on Communism
In recent years Wal-Mart has been busted for illegally firing workers who attempted to organize unions, threatening workers who advocated for unions, and spying on workers who they suspected of being pro-union. Wal-Mart even went as far as to distribute a written “Manager’s Toolbox to Remaining Union Free” to supervisory employees. The documents describe supposed signs of union organizing for managers to watch for. These include “Frequent meetings at associates’ [employees] homes” or employees suddenly becoming friendly with each other. Managers who observe such signs are encouraged to call corporate headquarters. H.Q. then sends in a rapid response team of “specialists” to deal with the situation.
(snipped)
When Wal-Mart workers defy all odds and actually form a union, Wal-Mart employs the nuclear option of mutually assured destruction. When Wal-Mart meat cutters in Jacksonville, Texas unionized in 2000, the company closed all of its butcher shops nationally, opting to contract out for pre-cut meat rather than negotiate a contract with their unionized workers. This year, when workers in Wal-Mart’s Jonquiere, Quebec store successfully won union recognition, the company responded by firing all 190 workers and shutting down the store.
When the union made moves to sue to keep the store open, the company abruptly locked its doors, called the workers in to a spontaneous staff meeting, and told them that the store would immediately close. Police then escorted the unionized workers from the closed store. Wal-Mart opponents see this action as a radical company warning to other Wal-Mart workers in both Canada and the U.S. who are considering voting for union recognition. Join a union – lose your job. Wal-Mart is rabidly anti-union and will not accept a unionized workforce at Wal-Mart.
td
December 11th, 2012
10:28 pm
getalife
December 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
pat,
They save jobs, benefits and wages.
Why do you slobber all over the wealthy?
If you used the time you spend on these blogs to get smarter and enhance your own skill set then you could become wealthy and people would be “slobbering” over you instead of you having to be a moocher.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:30 pm
“in reality then it happens every freaking day in union shops.”
they both suck,
I know bro posted earlier that the law states that you cannot be forced to join a union. But in those union shops in northern states reality and law are 2 different things. Its commonly known that in a lot of big city or northern union shops that you will be joining that union. That’s just reality.
TaxPayer
December 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
getalife,
I think td is saying he wants to drool on you.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
td, and you are smart??
The man who insisted that I take his bet that Romney would win this last election?
Definitely dumb.
But then I’m supposing that you voted for George W. Bush as well…(If so, the dumbest of the dumb moves that anyone could have made.)
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
10:35 pm
Well, must’ve hit Kam’s goat, “Sport” was invoked! Glad to see he/she knows how to use the emoticons in a blog. Apparently this makes up for the lack of cajones (for you Kam, that’s balls) to respond. So be it, FYI! Figure it out!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:39 pm
“Wal-Mart counters many of these charges by touting the company’s own health insurance plan – which most Wal-Mart workers either do not qualify for, or opt not to participate in. The plan can only be described as cruel. The buy-in cost can approach a quarter of a worker’s before-tax wages – with employees shouldering a whopping forty-two percent of the cost of the program. Out of pocket deductibles for this plan range up to $3,000 per year for family coverage. The congressional study estimates that “a single worker could end up spending about $6,400 out of pocket – about 45 percent of her annual full-time salary – before seeing a single benefit from the health plan.”
Tundra Dude,
I’m sorry man but that article is lacking credibility. I’ve got several Walmart employees as customers and have seen their employee health plan. Its not bad at all and is much better than what this article says. Its a terribly misleading and one sided article. When it said the plan was incredibly cruel I knew at that point it was complete BS.
Glad to be Union free
December 11th, 2012
10:39 pm
I saw how those nice union guys up north can have a debate .But if they disagree they will knock down private property with OLD women inside and hit people while their back is turned.Bunch of candy ass liberal cowards,All because they won’t people that’s not in their job killing unions to pay too.They didn’t ask for the benefits.Can’t blame the non union people for getting more than they asked for.If you want to pay union dues to the Mob,for benefits that you probably would have gotten anyway thatsyour business.Don’t bitch because another guys smarter than you in not wanting tomgive his hard earned money to the Mob so they live thenhighnlife.Yea unions help keep people their jobs.Thing is they shouldhave been fired to start with.Yes I worked 30 years for unions and they NEVER got me ampenny more than I would have gotten without them.I’ve seen terrible workers,layout,come in drunk,steal etc.and the UNION got them their job back…LOL..its pathetic….Why are jobs going overrseas..Unions plain and simple….but hey ,don’t worry union candy asses,Hussien Obama has got your Back….LOL..we are all going down and your union won’t save you…..
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
So be it, FYI! Figure it out!
FYI! What makes you think I haven’t, sport.
FYI! So be it!
getalife
December 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
Tax,
Ew.
These broke cons will never be wealthy because they are self defeatists.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
td: I do not under any circumstance believe that government workers should have the right to organize.
Why not? What’s different about workplace issues in the private sector vs the public sector? Have you even bothered to ever look at an actuall Collective Bargaining Agreement for a public sector union before?
Here’s a PDF version of the CBA between US Customs and Border Protection and the National Treasury Employee Union (NTEU). Thumb through that and look for all the boogeyman stuff that you “hear” about public sector unions. If you want to spare yourself time, I’ll give you a hint, there is no boogeyman at the end of the story. The CBA basically lays the framework for decisions pertaining to workplace issues such as scheduling, vacation, team assignments, and other such issues. If you prefer a web link as opposed to a pdf link, here’s one here:
http://www.freeownersmanualpdf.net/ebook/collective-bargaining-agreement-between-the-national-border.pdf
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
10:41 pm
“Mooch, you mean it paid you a good lesson. Send the money back.”
Nope. I did too much of their work while they just sat around or goofed off.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:41 pm
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
10:35 pm
Well, must’ve hit Kam’s goat, “Sport” was invoked!
kamspam invoked the sport card. Couldn’t see that one coming could we?
The smoking gun is in the toxic cloud.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
JamVet:
Oh ……….. I forgot to tell you about the engineer and fireman who used to drink beer on the job and throw the cans out the engine window. I was always a little more careful with that crew.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
10:43 pm
Thulsa:
Yep ……….. if he evokes “sport” than means he’s whupped !
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Scout,
“sport card” = submission.
Cloudodust
December 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Nor do Conservatives support Obamacare, Obamaphones, long term Obama food stamps programs or any other long-term Obama Give Away programs at taxpayers expense. 51.something% isn’t a resounding positive to continue to put the screws to this nation. Oh, and how about those terrific unemployment numbers..? But I guess we’ll feed the worthy that refuse to contribute and let the Seniors that have contributed do like the Old Soldier, Just Fade Away…
Counterparties: How not to fix Medicare – Reuters Blogs (blog) | Weight Loss Diet Plan
December 11th, 2012
10:47 pm
[...] suggestions, story tips and complaints to Counterparties.Reuters@gmail.com. Among the many …GOP leading a crusade with very few followersAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Nancy Pelosi: Truth about Medicare ageUSA TODAYRaising Medicare [...]
getalife
December 11th, 2012
10:49 pm
The regulation called the gop will stop blocking our recovery so our economy will return to the good ole President Clinton peace and prosperity.
The gop are always on the losing side of history.
You can bet on it.
Glad to be Union free
December 11th, 2012
10:51 pm
Enter your comments here
Glad to be Union free
December 11th, 2012
10:52 pm
Hate when that happens…Uhmm I believe Mr.Lincoln was GOP and the US won that war…next!!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
10:53 pm
Enter your comment anywhere else but here
Glad to be Union free
December 11th, 2012
10:55 pm
Such a witty little SPORT…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
10:57 pm
Sock-puppets
FYI!, sport.
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
11:06 pm
Wow, Kam, took you that long to figure it out? Your little emoticons are so cute, apparently that means you don’t have an intelligent response. Go figure!
getalife
December 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
Intellectabation is when cons pretend to be intelligent.
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
11:24 pm
get – ho, ho, ho, that’s a good one! And Merry Christmas to you & yours!
Okay, one question, ND or AL? Being from NO your QB on the radio says “no way would we’d be for AL”. What say you?
getalife
December 11th, 2012
11:26 pm
USA Patriot,
I was a Cathololic
getalife
December 11th, 2012
11:27 pm
Oops, I was a Catholic and SEC rules college football.
Roll Tide!
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
11:29 pm
Thulsa and td
All those substantiated “forced” examples that both of you provided as almost crashed the AJC website. You can stop now
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
11:30 pm
Okay, being an SEC fan, much to my dismay I gotta go for, um, um, AL.
I, too, was a Cathololic – but just can’t!
getalife
December 11th, 2012
11:30 pm
We agree.
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
11:32 pm
At least on one thing. HA! You, sir, have a good evening.
getalife
December 11th, 2012
11:32 pm
You too .
td
December 11th, 2012
11:54 pm
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Kind of like you voting for Ralph Nader to be the President of the US. That is even dumber then Obama.
td
December 12th, 2012
12:03 am
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
td: I do not under any circumstance believe that government workers should have the right to organize.
Why not? What’s different about workplace issues in the private sector vs the public sector?
Huge difference. In the private sector if the union and management can not do what is right for the company then the company fails and they both lose their jobs. In other words both sides have skin in the game. In the public sector it is the taxpayer on the hook for the two sides not doing what is in the best interest of the public. I do think public sector workers should have civil service protection because politicians should not be able to come into power and just fire people to put their friends into jobs.
ODD OWL
December 12th, 2012
12:41 am
Rich people get their money the old fashion way, they steal it…
saywhat?
December 12th, 2012
12:42 am
I guess you could say the GOP is leading from their behinds.
ODD OWL
December 12th, 2012
12:46 am
I support the “Bookman” plan for debt/deficit reduction and tax increases…
ODD OWL
December 12th, 2012
1:04 am
Apparently the Republicans, especially the non rich ones, talk and think in hypothetical terms… But they seem to be oblivous to the fact that when they spew their hypothetical philosophy, they’re exposing the fact that they’re untethered from reality… I’m sure the psychiatrists have a name for this mental impairment…
Oscar
December 12th, 2012
1:18 am
Odd – It is cognitive dissonance
Redcoat
December 12th, 2012
5:38 am
dems/libs own it……..government is no longer a representative republic…….now a democracy, right? now that change has come…..one last vote to go to give away our freedom and personal responsibility to those who always know better for everyone…….dems/libs own it…..the end.
stands for decibels
December 12th, 2012
5:51 am
mornin’.
Did you include the party faithful here on your blog? That should give the GOP at least 10 more followers for the parade.
and on cue, the usual hilarity ensued, I see.
stands for decibels
December 12th, 2012
5:52 am
I support the “Bookman” plan for debt/deficit reduction and tax increases…
I was ok with it in general, although I think his silly bit about means-testing some of the benefits was fairly clueless.
stands for decibels
December 12th, 2012
5:58 am
If these are truly Republicans, I agree that they are not very knowledgeable.
let the record show that it too three hours for anyone self-identifying as anything less than somewhat left-of-center to at least acknowledge the point Jay was trying to make.
Pretty typical.
stands for decibels
December 12th, 2012
5:58 am
…TOOK three hours, of course, I meant. Need coffee.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 12th, 2012
6:07 am
anyone have any idea what redcoat is babbling about at 5:38?
Granny Godzilla
December 12th, 2012
6:39 am
GOP has few followers?
I beg to differ.
They are ALL followers.
Sadly lacking are GOP leaders.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 12th, 2012
6:55 am
Good Wednesday morning all y’all…
Man, I was and still am, bummed to hear Ravi Shankar died yesterday….I still have his first album. Loved what George Harrison did with him too. Happy Nirvana, Ravi.
GB
December 12th, 2012
7:01 am
This editorial cites the voters’ preferences without discussing the irrationality and contradictions of those preferences. Yes, we want to cut or eliminate the deficit; no, we don’t want to do what is required to accomplish that.
Should leaders do what is best for the country or should they follow the wishes of the public as expressed in a poll? Especially when the results of the poll make no sense, as anyone with a brain can readily see.
Mick
December 12th, 2012
7:11 am
Nobody gets to live forever; death, the great equalizer. However, life is for the living, have a great xmas corbin aka santa claus!!!
stands for decibels
December 12th, 2012
7:19 am
taxpayer dollars for TBIs SHEETZ.
GT
December 12th, 2012
7:22 am
The problem with living in the basement of a house is you seldom know what is going on upstairs. That is the problem for the GOP. In the south they are covered up with a thin thinking bunch who rather get their news from a moonshiner like FOX or local radio that legitimate, and you have the rich, who the older Bush demonstrated so well, didn’t even know how to buy groceries, they are out of reality so far. The rest of this country including the energetic future thinks different. I could understand the stubbornness if the GOP had a winning strategy but look at the states they control and the economies they are responsible for and you see poverty first hand.
AU Liberal in ATL
December 12th, 2012
7:29 am
It’s the same ole, same ole. Republicans are pandering to their high dollar supporters, they don’t really care about the deficit, medicare, medicaid, social security or the country. It’s the money, Stupid.
Skip
December 12th, 2012
7:30 am
Having actually lived in Detroit and worked for a time at the G.M. transmission plant I find half of you to be woefully uninformed.
Techfan
December 12th, 2012
7:32 am
A little over $800 billion is deducted from peoples’ paychecks for SS/Medicare, etc. and needs to be reserved for these purposes only. For 2011, that would have left about $1.5 trillion in revenue. With real military spending at around $1.3-$1.4 trillion, you can see how little remains to run the entire rest of the government. The only answer is to raise revenue and cut defense spending.
Ronnie Raygun
December 12th, 2012
7:36 am
That’s why the GOPers are too cowardly to propose the specific cuts they are demanding. They want Obama to propose what the GOPers want so they can use it in their campaigns rather than have their demands used against them.
What a bunch of gutless weasels.
GT
December 12th, 2012
8:22 am
The world has changed since the voodoo economics of Ronald Regan. Few people by the way lay the S&L crisis on Ronnie’s feet as they talk about trickle down economics. The wealth hording their money, international investments and hiding tax dollars all undermine the model. The American economy works best when people are hungry and the wealthy are ambitious. The rich, now days are like married men retired from the chase and what they do chase is out of town, out of country, off the radar. We want to say that it is taxes and the business man wants us to believe that but the real motivation is cheap labor and production cost. How long do you think it will take a backwoods Chinaman to figure out how to ask for more money or compete on an equal playing field with western capitalism. The American natives have figured out the emperor has no clothes, just stopping the middle America from education is not enough anymore, the rich are now having to dam up capital to hold back competition. In a couple of hundred years the Chinese will evolve to the same level and cheap labor will be gone. In the meanwhile we all eat cake.
C.K.
December 12th, 2012
8:23 am
Business owner shot for being non-union.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 12th, 2012
9:14 am
Jay — “no, JHM. Remember, in this scenario I am king.”
“As king, I would designate someone to handle that task for me. I’m thinking Ronda Rousey could dispatch you quickly, one way or another.”
Sounds like you’re afraid to take on a handicapped and disabled vet there, Kingie.
Logical Dude
December 12th, 2012
1:57 pm
(I know I”m late to this, but)
Jay says: Poll after poll is reporting the same basic finding: the American people are worried about the deficit, but they do not support cutting Medicare or Medicaid, nor do they back raising the Medicare eligibility age to 67.
But that still shouldn’t stop us from doing what is right for the country.