GOP leading a crusade with very few followers
Poll after poll is reporting the same basic finding: the American people are worried about the deficit, but they do not support cutting Medicare or Medicaid, nor do they back raising the Medicare eligibility age to 67.
The latest survey to confirm that finding comes from McClatchy/Marist. As you can see, the voters in the chart above oppose cutting Medicare by a 42-point margin and oppose Medicaid cuts by a similar margin. By an almost 2-1 margin, they also say it is more important to compromise than to stand on principle.
But here’s the twist: The numbers in the chart above are all from voters who self-identified as Republicans. There’s not an independent or Democrat among ‘em. And overall, the level of support or opposition among GOP voters is not that different from voters in general. On the issue of Medicare cuts, for example, just 26 percent of Republican voters support the idea, compared to 23 percent of voters in general.
So again, if Republicans in Washington want to march off the fiscal cliff for the cause of slashing entitlements, and more importantly, if they want to push the country into default by refusing to raise the debt ceiling unless entitlements are slashed, they may turn around and discover that the little parade that they’re trying to lead has very few followers.
– Jay Bookman
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487 comments Add your comment
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:44 pm
Apparently the shooter was using an AR-15 (M16) rifle.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
8:46 pm
Recon
If you click on the link provided in the article, I believe it will provide you with the questions and details of the poll
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
8:46 pm
“Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions”
Judging by the number of cars I see…we must have one HELL of a lot of uncommon men around here
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
8:48 pm
Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions.
Unions don’t decide where to build the manufacturing plant.
Unions don’t decide who designs the manufacturing plant.
Unions don’t decide who builds the manufacturing plant.
Unions don’t decide where the raw materials com from.
Unions don’t decide how the raw materials get there.
Unions don’t decide what is manufactured.
Unions don’t decide who advertises what is manufactured.
Unions don’t decide the advertising campaign once the ad agency is chosen.
Unions don’t decide where the product is distributed.
Unions don’t decide how the product is distributed.
Unions don’t decide which tools are used to manufacture the product.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:50 pm
Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions
Even with the “lavish” union benefits afforded to workers prior to the collapse of 2009 (including pension and medical benefits) line labor accounted for only between 8 – 10% of the wholesale cost of a new car.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
8:50 pm
The company claims union work rules won’t let them consolidate, but you know that’s BS- you’ve been through “dovetailing” by seniority before, and had a year long layoff to prove it. You and the other drivers suspect they keep the operations separate to avoid laying off all the multiple managers
But yet some posters keep posting garbage as if their “belief” is the only truth. How silly.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
8:50 pm
weetamoe: “The Michigan legislature passes a law and union thugs beat people up, tear down and trample a tent with women and children inside”
Only thugs I see are the ones in the legislature attacking workers and their paymasters.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
8:53 pm
3 dead including shooter in mall shooting.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 11th, 2012
8:57 pm
Nunna the Yob: “Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions”
The diametrical opposite is the truth of course. If there is one measure that is in direct proportion to the decline in American wages, and thus purchasing power, it is the strength of unions.
No unions, no middle class, resulting in sagging consumer demand .It’s that simple.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:00 pm
N. Korea just launched another rocket.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:02 pm
“Denying people the opportunity to organize is just that”- Brocephus
So are you saying that unions cannot organize in a right to work state? Cause Alabama is right to work state. And my sister is in a union there. As was I when I was a teamster working at UPS back in the day. Please clarify.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
9:03 pm
**You have repeatedly over and over and over made the mistake of thinking that if we lose unskilled labor jobs such as textile jobs to outsourcing that its a bad thing.
Any dollar moving out of the country is a bad thing…see mercantilism 101…
Rightwing Troll
December 11th, 2012
9:04 pm
Funny how you all “conservative” moochers can see the ass whupping you just took, call the glass overflowing and a mandate for your failed and dishonest policies… but can’t acknowledge that things are WAY better now than they were when W left office, calling that glass totally empty… this is why you just lost what should’ve been a slam dunk win… your lies, delusions, and dishonesty.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:04 pm
Management also usually has culpability as well as in the case of Hostess. But the unions demanding that twinkies and wonderbread be carried on different trucks does not increase pay- it simply introduces costly inefficiencies to that business. Both are to blame but costly union demands that have nothing to do with perhour wages don’t help.
And all management has to say is N-O. Unions can’t run the business without a contract or a job. The power always lies with managment or owners. They can simply liquidate or hire outsiders unaffiliated with the union. Nice try, but the liability is equal, and if not more on owners as they still have the upper hand in negotiations. Way to let them off the hook again though. You’re one of the best I’ve ever seen at doing that.
As Jay’s econ article pointed out long ago and as practically any economist agrees the world is better off with free trade. There will be short term winners and losers but overall we are better off.
Yeah, zero job growth makes us better off. Stagnant wages makes us better off. Sounds like something that economists would say. What happens when everybody’s working for $7.50 an hour? Who’s gonna buy things then?
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional
December 11th, 2012
9:06 pm
At twenty we worry about what others think of us;
at forty we don’t care about what others think of us;
at sixty we discover they haven’t been thinking about us at all;
at eighty we don’t MATTER in the minds of the CONS.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:06 pm
I am pretty sure there are several large corporations in Georgia that are union shops. Lockheed, UPS, AT&T all come to mind.
What is wrong with unions in right to work states?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:07 pm
They BOTH: The few Republicans I know that are in one are called pilots. They don’t seem to poo poo their’s too much.
Would you expect them to? Pilots are the one group that I will stand up and say deserves the wages they ask for. After witnessing pilots landing in tropical storm weather with winds pushing planes all over the place, I have no problem with them asking for premium pay. The last thing I want is a minimum wage pilot flying me through turbulent weather.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:08 pm
Nunna the Yob: “Wanna know why automobiles are too expensive for the common man? Unions”
Oh good Lord. I better step in and launch a conservative missile of truth into the liberal wall of lies- not to mention outright lib ignorance and gobbledeegook hyperbole.
When Congress debated the bailout package for Detroit, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell and other Republicans had demanded that wages and benefits for employees of U.S. automakers needed to be renegotiated to match the lesser overall compensation that foreign carmakers like Toyota, Honda and Nissan pay at their U.S. plants.
The Associated Press reported that, for example, the average United Auto Workers member makes $29.78 per hour at GM, while Toyota pays its workers (most of whom are non-union) about $30 per hour. However, when total benefits (including pensions and health care for workers, retirees and their spouses) is factored in, GM’s total hourly labor costs is about $69, while Toyota’s is about $48.- CBS news
Advantage- Toyota plants in the U.S. Plain and simple.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:08 pm
Correction. Advantage- Non-Union Toyota plants in the U.S. Plain and simple.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:09 pm
The CEO of Ford was quoted serveral years ago stating that they paid more in benefits than they did for steel. I see no reason to doubt him.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:10 pm
So are you saying that unions cannot organize in a right to work state?
No, that is not what I said. Passing these bogus and unnecessary laws simply to bust up unions is what’s keeping people from organizing. Used to be that people could vote to organize and were protected from retaliation. Nowadays, politicians appear to make it easy as hell for organization attempts to be squashed.
Clear enough?
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:10 pm
“What is wrong with unions in right to work states?”
I dunno. I’m getting cricket chirps on that question too.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:11 pm
The CEO of Ford was quoted serveral years ago stating that they paid more in benefits than they did for steel.
And that is a bad thing?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:12 pm
Bro
Not knocking them at all, but I do find it ironic.
Back in the day we used to call them the APA the most Republican based union in America.
Had one tell me years ago, If the CEO has no problem and a right to have his personal attorney helping him negotiate the best deal for himself with the company, why shouldn’t I have someone doing it on my behalf?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:12 pm
conservative missiles of truth? Are those the same ones used to attack Wisconsin wedding parties?
And then a clownish comparison of legacy costs thrown in on top of hourly wages.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
9:13 pm
Thulsa: that’s an old analogy. The reason Toyota’s are lower is that they don’t have “legacy” costs like GM, i.e., they don’t have workers who have worked all of their lives and retired and are living on their pensions and are receiving healthcare.
Like I said in an earlier post, even WITH all of these legacy costs, the line labor only accounts for 8 – 10% of the wholesale costs of a new car.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:13 pm
Well Kam, if you can’t figure out that answer I can’t help you. Benefits, not wages, cost more than the material to build the car?
Don Abernethy
December 11th, 2012
9:14 pm
The direction Obama is heading these past few weeks indicates he will probably be a dictator within a year and there will be no more GOP. Thanks Democrats you really know how to elect trouble.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:15 pm
Darth Barack.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:15 pm
“Heard a lady on a local radio talk show today who advised the host that her son had just been promoted to “trustee” at the local jail.
She added he was the only son who ever amounted to anything.”
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:15 pm
Benefits, not wages, cost more than the material to build the car?
No, you specifically said “steel”.
An automobile is made of only steel?
If you can’t figure out that answer, I can’t help you.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:16 pm
I am pretty sure there are several large corporations in Georgia that are union shops. Lockheed, UPS, AT&T all come to mind.
What is wrong with unions in right to work states?
Damn, how many times do I have to repeat this for you freeloading advocates? The only difference between unions in RTW states and Non-RTW states is that the people who advocate the RTW laws are codifying mooching and freeloading. Nobody has to join a union in any state in the country.
In Non-RTW states, unions can collect the bargaining fee from non-members, but they can not force a worker to join the union. The only exception is when the company and the union agree, through a CBA, that everybody has to join the union. This has been backed up by SCOTUS ruling and the NLRB.
In RTW states, a worker can collect the benefits of the CBA done between the company and union, but they do not have to pay a single penny towards the negotiation of those benefits.
Basically, someone does the work to gain whatever benefits they can, and Republicans are passing laws so that freeloaders can benefit without paying. That’s really funny considering the rallying cry of Republicans have been all about takers vs makers. You lose any ground to that argument when you legislate taking as your idea.
Doggone/GA
December 11th, 2012
9:16 pm
“The direction Obama is heading these past few weeks indicates he will probably be a dictator within a year ”
I don’t envy you the headache you’ll have tomorrow morning
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:17 pm
OK one of the principal materials in a car. Feel better Kam?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:18 pm
Bro, try getting a job with a unionized company without joining the union. Puh-leaze.
Soothsayer
December 11th, 2012
9:19 pm
[I]n the US, it takes about 30 hours total, for the body, engine, transmission, assembly, paint, etc. doesn’t include things like outsourced parts and mining the ore (or recycling old cars). the labor costs from $55-$70 per hour including benefits so about $2100 per car, or roughly 8% the cost of the average car.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:19 pm
Union violence …………….. as usual.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
Where is Paul’s refutation of my tax calculations?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
Don
Your whoppers and delusions grow bigger and darker each time you post………….
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:20 pm
They BOTH
I’d pit APA against IUPA and FOP for the title of “Most Republican Union”. If you notice, every single labor attack that’s been done recently have specifically exempted police and fire.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:22 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
Try reading up on Beck Rights. You’ll be that much more informed, that is, if you actually want to arm yourself with the truth.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:22 pm
Poor sucker union employees. Going out on strike while the union officials get rich off them. (Read Mafia (see Jimmy Hoffa for clarification).
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:23 pm
O.K. …………….. you knew it was coming !!!!
Ohhhhhh …………………………………………………………………………………..
“Everybody stand up and holler for the union,
Let’s give the brotherhood a cheer.
Everybody stand up and holler for the union,
We ain’t hit a lick all year !”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:23 pm
All I know is that my brother who works in a unionized state and business, had to join the union if he wanted a job.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:24 pm
“So are you saying that unions cannot organize in a right to work state?”-Doom
“No, that is not what I said”- Doom
You sure about that Bro? Cause you were doing some awful loud complaining something about interfering with people’s consitutional right to assemble. You did say that did you not?
“Passing these bogus and unnecessary laws simply to bust up unions is what’s keeping people from organizing.”
So how are they keeping unions from organizing. For example when UPS hired seasonal help a couple of months ago in a right to work state like Alabama how was it that a new employee could readily join the union right then and there when he signed on? How was he prevented from joining a union and how does this apply to right to work states? Your argument aint holding much water.
“Used to be that people could vote to organize and were protected from retaliation.”
So how are they not protected from retaliation in a right to work state?
“Nowadays, politicians appear to make it easy as hell for organization attempts to be squashed.” Well now do they “appear” to make it easy as hell for organization attempts to be squashed or do they actually make it easier for organization attempts to be squashed?
I do remember a rule that the unions wanted where in a vote to unionize or non unionize that the workers had to show which way they voted. Ballots could not be secret which is one of our most cherished rights- the secret vote. That got squashed for the obvious reason. Because if a person voted against the union and the union won then the employee is open to harassment and intimidation by the union heads for initially voting against a union. So tell me. Is that the kind of intimidation and bullying that you might be referring to?
td
December 11th, 2012
9:24 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:16 pm
In theory you are correct but in practically I am calling BS on your statement. I worked for Lockheed and there is no way a person going to work for the company could last more then a month without joining the union.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:24 pm
Nunna, child, Paul told you he was leaving at a certain time to do other things. So why don’t you trot over to the buffoonery corner with your whine and have some crackers. Keep your eyes open. There’s a thug clown car driven by some drunken idiot posting garbage as if it represents reality. Don’t let them conn you into getting in with them.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:27 pm
I do remember a rule that the unions wanted where in a vote to unionize or non unionize that the workers had to show which way they voted. Ballots could not be secret which is one of our most cherished rights- the secret vote
Nope. you might want to get checked for Alzheimer’s cause your memory is wayyyyyy off.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
9:27 pm
…there will be no more GOP.
If that is so – and it is not – it will be because of you, Donovan.
And all of the other modern Republicans who are killing that political party. Killing it with extremism that is bordering on fascism. You are completely intolerant and insular. You detest our government. You view damn near everybody – domestic and foreign – as an enemy. Or at a minimum lazy and stupid moochers.
Take some responsibility and own that.
And to the extent that you will never change – and I don’t believe you will – I am here to help you on your suicide mission!
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:28 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:18 pm
Bro, try getting a job with a unionized company without joining the union. Puh-leaze.
It aint gonna happen in Pittsburgh according to what my family tells me.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:28 pm
Bro
With union membership at 12% or less and most jobs that have been shipped overseas being non-union, it is mostly talking points and rallying cries for the right.
Unions like management have surely made bad decisions over the years, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth in terms of unions when looking at the overall workforce is as much rhetoric and hyperbole as anything.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:29 pm
Bumper Sticker:
“My Child was Inmate of the Month at the Cobb County Youth Detention Center”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:29 pm
Keep – I beat his deadline (which I had no idea he had issued until I finished posting the information on the blog.) If you will go back and read his posts from last week, you will see the he insulted me repeatedly because I said a person with $300k in taxable income would pay more than $1500 in tax increases. He then hemmed and hawed around and basically refused to even think about what I had shown him. He dismissed the facts in typical lib fashion.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:29 pm
Doom
Your argument about UPS holds about as much weight as a sieve holds water. UPS already has a CBA with unions. Try to organize at WalMart in Alabama and see what happens. That’s what I’m talking about. You know damn well that nobody’s stopping UPS workers from organizing as they already have union representation. I’m talking about companies that actively fight attempts to organize.
Geez, and you talk about others being kooks. Either you’re completely clueless or purposefully being obtuse.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
td @ 9:24
If that were so on a grand scale, where iare the lawsuits against the unions or those pushing and forcing the indivdual to join?
Is it all a tight secret?
Maybe it has happend.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
Shouldn’t our military be union ?
You know, fair wages …….. workers rights and all ?
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
td
You can call BS all you want. The Supreme Court, NLRB, and law proves you wrong. It doesn’t suprise me that you would take that stand though, as you often appear to pick the losing team.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
He dismissed the facts in typical lib fashion.
There’s your sign.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:32 pm
So tell me. Is that the kind of intimidation and bullying that you might be referring to?
Nope. I’m referring to threats from the company themselves. I have no problem with holding secret ballots and I thought that open ballot law sucked ass.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:32 pm
Kam – I know. Facts didn’t suit him so he ignored them. Just like I said.
Tundra Dude
December 11th, 2012
9:34 pm
Keep:
And then a clownish comparison of legacy costs thrown in on top of hourly wages.
Exactly.
Ford’s Labor Costs Divided by Hours of Work Is NOT Their Hourly Compensation
Thursday, 13 January 2011
The NYTimes told readers that Ford’s labor cost for a worker is now $59 an hour, which is says is down 20 percent from what it used to be. It is important to recognize that this number is not what Ford is paying for current workers’ pay and benefits. This includes all payments that Ford makes for labor, including contributions to its pension and health funds for workers who are already retired.
This is an important distinction. Unionized auto workers are paid more than the typical worker, but their pay is not as out of line as this figure implies.
(from; Beat the Press blog)
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
It appears that Doomy’s memory is working just fine. I’m just glad no idiot out there would suggest otherwise.
The controversy was over card check. From Wiki
Under the proposed Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), if the NLRB verifies that over 50% of the employees signed authorization cards, the secret ballot election is bypassed and a union is automatically formed. Introduced in the U.S. Congress in 2005 and reintroduced in 2007[1] and 2009,[2] the EFCA provides that the NLRB would recognize the union’s role as the official bargaining representative if a majority of employees have authorized that representation via majority sign-up (card check), without requiring a secret ballot election.[3] Under The EFCA, if over 30% and fewer than 50% of employees sign a petition or authorization cards, the NLRB would still order a secret ballot election for union representation.
Unions do love they intimidation they do. So does Brocephus support this kind of bullying and intimidation?
Those who oppose card check argue it strips workers of their right to a secret ballot. They also argue that even though gathering a majority of card signers might imply that a secret ballot would be unnecessary, signers could be coerced to sign through intimidation and pressure, making it an inaccurate mechanism for determining employee support for unionization. Many business organizations, including The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, oppose the implementation of card check. From its website:
Under the existing law today, workers have a chance to vote for or against unionization in a private-ballot election that is federally supervised. Under Card Check, if more than 50% of workers at a facility sign a card, the government would have to certify the union, and a private ballot election would be prohibited–even if workers want one. By forcing workers to sign a card in public – instead of vote in private – card check opens the door to intimidation and coercion. Over 70% of voters agree that a private election is better than card check.[9]
The National Restaurant Association lists three points in opposition to card check on its website.
“1. A card-check process increases the risk of coercion. When a union tries to organize a workplace, employees sometimes face intimidation and pressure about how they should vote, from the union, management, or both. The best way to protect employees from coercion is through the continued use of a federally supervised, private-ballot process.
2. Private ballots are a basic American right. The entire American system is based on respect for individual liberty and democracy. If Congress passes this proposal, they will strip away the protections that federally protected, democratic elections provide for American workers.
3. An employee’s decision to join a union should be made in private. Employees should not have to reveal to anyone — employers or unions — how they exercise their right to choose whether to organize with their co-workers in a union. Moving to a card-check process rather than a federally supervised election tramples on employee privacy. An employee’s decision to join a union should be made in private, protected from any coercion by unions, employers or co-workers.[10]
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
td
I hope you are not getting your info from Dick Morris and Karl Rove. We know how you like to tout those two and we also know their recent track records………….
just sayiing
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:35 pm
It’s my understanding that the Dutch military is unionized.
Shouldn’t we be going the way of socialist Europe ……….. you know, progressive and all ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces_of_the_Netherlands
Tundra Dude
December 11th, 2012
9:36 pm
Must be them thar Union Thugs responsible for the success of the auto industry in Germany.
How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much
http://onforb.es/sJiRcI
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 11th, 2012
9:36 pm
“Aye Aye Union boss ……… yes sir !”
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:37 pm
Unions do love they intimidation they do. So does Brocephus support this kind of bullying and intimidation?
It’s quite obvious that Doom can’t read plain English. See my 9:32 to understand why I said that.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:38 pm
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
How can there be a lawsuit over not having anything to do with you? No talking to you prior to work. No union member going to lunch with you. No union member speaking to you in the halls, at the water cooler or in the bathroom.
Like I said who is going to work at a place for more then a month or so when they know they are not welcome? All the person has to do is join the union and then everyone is your brother in arms.
GOP leading a crusade with very few followers – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Weight Loss Diet Plan
December 11th, 2012
9:39 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:40 pm
td – very astute observation.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:40 pm
Hmmm…them goal posts got moved real fast. typical garbage…say one thing and then try to support it by spin and lies.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:41 pm
Just like I said.
No, you’re moving the goalposts — yet again.
What you said was, “typical lib fashion”.
Paul is many things, but he is not a “typical lib”.
It’s painfully obvious that you knee jerk to assume that anyone who challenges you is a “typical lib.”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:41 pm
Give in to the dark side (oops, I mean union), it is the only way you can have any friends.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:41 pm
How can there be a lawsuit over not having anything to do with you? No talking to you prior to work. No union member going to lunch with you. No union member speaking to you in the halls, at the water cooler or in the bathroom.
Do you go to work to socialize or do you go to perform whatever tasks you get paid for? Sounds like a case of Merlot to me…
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:42 pm
td
WRONG……… So you say it happens, but you can’t site one case where someone was basically foreced to join and sued?
Is that correct?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:42 pm
Kam – his posts would suggest otherwise.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 11th, 2012
9:43 pm
Bro, well its clear that only unions can be thugs, never company management in trying to stop unions.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
9:44 pm
Union busting is anti-American.
Talk about murderous thugs, look at the history of those who tried to keep collective bargaining from happening in this country.
The cons are today’s American fascists and Mussolini would have loved them…
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
Kam, Jam,Bro, et al, apparently you’ve not had much to do with the UAW unions in Detroit. They are much like your president, a bunch of thugs. Don’t even try to explain how “beneficial” these folks are, been there done that, they are only interested in there “machine”. GO MICHIGAN, right to work state!
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
Bro, it does wonders for the performance of your job when you co-workers won’t communicate with you.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
td @ 9:38
Have you also considered that the “silent treatment” came because you were freeloading the benefits without paying for them? Is that silent treatment any different than conservatives who currently wail about people collecting welfare, disability, or unemployment? Isn’t that what conservatives call mooching?
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
td
Let me make it simple for you.
Are you saying that there are no workers in RTW states that decided not to join the union (meaning they are all in the union)?
There is not too many issues that either of us can bring up where we can’t come up with an example of something, but that in itself doesn’t mean it holds true across the board, does it? your example being Lockheed.
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
“Try to organize at WalMart in Alabama and see what happens. That’s what I’m talking about.”
They tried that walkout in protest of working on Thanksgiving eve. Didn’t work.
“You know damn well that nobody’s stopping UPS workers from organizing as they already have union representation.”
Well not really. They have union representation if they choose it. Key word being choose. When I went to work at UPS I was strongly encouraged to join the union. But I still had a choice as to whether or not I wanted to. Perhaps you’re still not understanding the distinction about freedom and choice.
As for corporations trying to stop unionization efforts perhaps you need to step back from your pre-conceived ideas and let at the situation. Walmart for example does not want a union. And they educate their employees about why they oppose a union. But they do not intimidate their employees about unions. Not according to the Walmart employees that I’ve dealt with anyway.
And last why do you have a problem with them opposing a union? Its their company and its their damn right to oppose it if they think its bad for business. So why do you oppose them sticking up for their own rights as a company? Seems like you have a pretty one sided view of things.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:47 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:31 pm
td
You can call BS all you want. The Supreme Court, NLRB, and law proves you wrong. It doesn’t suprise me that you would take that stand though, as you often appear to pick the losing team.
Lets see in 2010: My Vote for Gov, Lt Gov, AG, Labor, Insurance, Agriculture, PSC, local BOE, State House, State Senate, US HOR and US Senate all won.
In 2012, My Vote for State Senate, State House, US HOR, local Commissioner, Sheriff, Tax commissioner, PSC, 2 Judges all won but my vote for POTUS lost.
That means I have been correct 19 out of 20 times for a 95% accuracy rate. I bet you that that is better then your voting record.
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional
December 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
@Don Abernethy
December 11th, 2012
9:14 pm
The direction Obama is heading these past few weeks indicates he will probably be a dictator within a year and there will be no more GOP. Thanks Democrats you really know how to elect trouble.
======================================
Dictator?
Give us a break.
The GOP has fallen on their own SWORD.
Democrats know how to elect trouble?
“Borrow trouble for yourself, if that’s your nature, but don’t lend it to your neighbours.”
Rudyard Kipling
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
Bro that’s funny. Non-union workers freeloading? How about union “officials”. They freeload off of their union employees.
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:48 pm
USA Patriot
See my earlier posts. I’ve been around USW all my life.
http://www.uswalocal12.org/
I’ve seen the ups and downs, the good and the bad.
————————-
Nunna Yobinnes @ 9:45
If my job doesn’t require it, I prefer to work alone without interference. People not talking to me would be great. I don’t go to work to socialize.
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
Bro
Problem had nothing to do with unions as much as he is a RICHARD
Nunna Yobinnes
December 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
I don’t either but sometimes you have to work as a “team.”
td
December 11th, 2012
9:51 pm
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
I did not receive the silent treatment because I was a member of the union. I saw it happen to a few others that all became members within a couple weeks of starting to work.
JamVet
December 11th, 2012
9:51 pm
Faketriot,
My dad worked for Boeing and the Union Pacific Railroad.
He died young but my mom never had to worry too much.
Go sell your stupid, disgusting fascism somewhere else.
Like Brazil…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:52 pm
And last why do you have a problem with them opposing a union?
Once again for you, as it seems you have short term memory issues. I don’t have a problem either way. I don’t like when people rig the game either way. Negotiate in good faith as I see a man being as good as his word. If I can’t trust your word, I don’t trust you.
If a company treats their employees well, the employees won’t feel a need to organize. When employees feel a need to organize, maybe that’s a sign that the managment needs to sit down and see what the problems are. Nine times out of ten, things can be handled without unions interjecting.
Isn’t that how the free market works? A product is only as good as the demand for it. Remove the need for unionization, and unions will collapse on their own.
td
December 11th, 2012
9:53 pm
They BOTH suck
December 11th, 2012
9:45 pm
td
Let me make it simple for you.
Are you saying that there are no workers in RTW states that decided not to join the union (meaning they are all in the union)?
So what you are really saying is that you favor the government forcing a person to join a union to have a job.
USA Patriot
December 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Yep, typical response from Jam. FYI! Just like the rest of your crowd, like “school on Sunday, no class”. SI
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
That means I have been correct 19 out of 20 times for a 95% accuracy rate. I bet you that that is better then your voting record.
Probably is as I don’t vote for D*cks simply because they have an (R) or (D) behind their names. In most recent elections, I have purposefully avoided voting for either party. Any other questions about my voting record?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Kam, Jam,Bro, et al, apparently you’ve not had much to do with the UAW unions in Detroit.
Apparently, you are wrong — again.
Mick
December 11th, 2012
9:55 pm
doom
Bow out gracefully – you just don’t get it or maybe you’re the devils advocate here. These are real people here, hard workers, mostly skilled and they deliver a good product. Let them bargain for the best deal they can get, it lifts all the trades instead of lowering them…
Brosephus™
December 11th, 2012
9:57 pm
I don’t either but sometimes you have to work as a “team.”
My current job is no different. There is need to communicate, especially when dealing with someone who’s considered dangerous. I still don’t go to work to socialize. I tend to focus on what I’m doing and leave the water cooler stuff to those who enjoy that kind of stuff. I spend part of my free time looking at international news and such as that helps me understand the issues that I may run into.
Jm
December 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
Well if a poll says: commit fiscal suicide
Then surely we must do that
Thulsa Doom
December 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
“Once again for you, as it seems you have short term memory issues. I don’t have a problem either way”
You say that on the one hand you don’t have a problem either way and then we see where you wrote that it seems that we’re trying to stop freedom of assembly, etc. It would seem to be you that is suffering from memory lapses from just a few posts earlier.
As for Walmart for example and many other companies they were not intimidated into rejecting union membership. Their employees simply don’t want it. The free market at work I guess.