How John Boehner came to love the word ‘compromise’
What does it sound like when bullies discover that they’re losing a fight that they started, one that they’re likely to keep losing for the foreseeable future?
It sounds very much like this:
Unless he takes a more bipartisan approach to fiscal cliff negotiations, President Barack Obama “guarantees a permanent war” between Democrats and Republicans, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich predicted Sunday.
“He wants to prove he can dominate,” Gingrich said on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” adding that on fiscal cliff negotiations, Obama aims not to compromise, but to “block [House Speaker John] Boehner into collapse.”
Why the prediction of an endless partisan fight? “Because everybody on the right, at every level, sooner or later is going to get sick of it,” Gingrich said.
Correct me if I’m wrong — some will try to correct me though I’m right — but didn’t the Republicans start this all-out, scorched-earth permanent war thing? Wasn’t this whole thing their idea in the first place?
And now they beg for compromise?
It was almost exactly two years ago to the day that Speaker John Boehner made it clear that there would be no compromise in Washington. “I am not going to compromise my principles nor will I compromise the will of the American people,” he told Judy Woodruff of “60 Minutes”.
“You’re afraid of the word?” Woodruff asked.
“I reject the word,” the new speaker said.
Whatever his other failings, Gingrich knows first-hand the realities of being speaker. He knows what it’s like to have go searching for votes. So when he predicts, as he did Sunday, that “if Boehner works out an agreement with President Obama, it has to be an agreement that brings 120 or 140 House Democrats,” that tells you an awful lot.
A House majority requires 218 votes. If Boehner needs 120 to 140 Democrats to support an eventual deal, it means that close to two-thirds of his own party will probably be voting against the deal that he agrees to support. It means that Nancy Pelosi will have a lot to say about what that final package contains. And it means that the House GOP caucus will afterward find itself split between those RINOs who voted for the deal, and those hardliners who voted against it, with Boehner among those who supported it.
“(Boehner) can be the speaker of a block of Republicans working with Democrats or he can be the speaker of the hard right fighting the Democrats,” Gingrich said. “There’s no middle ground here. He will not carry the hard right for any deal.”
Again, this is a confrontation that congressional Republicans have wanted for years. They plotted and strategized to create just this opportunity, never imagining that when the moment came, they would be the ones pleading for compromise and a bit of political mercy.
And it doesn’t get any better in the immediate future. Next on the agenda when Congress returns?
Immigration reform, with Democrats pressing for a path to citizenship and Republicans again split between those who recognize the political and moral necessity of such a step, and those who, like Boehner two years ago, still reject the word “compromise”.
– Jay Bookman
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526 comments Add your comment
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:18 am
real john: “Since when have the Dems been compromising on anything???”
Occasionally there’s a post that’s so wrong-headed that it really takes you aback. Literally every single thing you said was the diametrical opposite of the truth.
Massive Democrat compromise is baked so far into this cake that you’ve got to step back a second to actually see it. Try: Obama offers ratios of spending cuts to increases in revenues of four, five, even six or seven to one.
Satisfied? What do you want, a hundred to one?
“Obama and the libs create this “debt fiscal cliff” crisis.”
Do you seriously want a response to that? As anybody following this knows, the only reason for the stand-off is the determination on the part of REPUBLICANS to use the debt ceiling to EXTORT massive cuts in social spending, while ignoring the real drivers of our spending: wars, past tax give-aways to the rich and soaring health care costs.
“Basically the Repubs compromised and gave the Dems their SPENDING INCREASE, but refuse to actually make any hard cuts”
If you think that the Dems have not put spending cuts on the table, you simply haven’t been paying attention or refuse to. The Democrats are the party of fiscal sanity and fiscal conservatism, period. They clean up Republican spending messes in their (misguided) attempt to be true to (Republicans’) stated goal of achieving fiscal balance. Recall that it was Bill Clinton the Democrat who really followed through with the principle of budgetary balance in practice that the Republicans had always preached.
Obama is perfectly Clintonian.
BRW
December 10th, 2012
9:18 am
“Republicans won the House”
Actually what occured is they barely held on…..nothing was “won”.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:18 am
Jay, your opening paragraph reveals the origin of your political leanings.
“What does it sound like when bullies discover that they’re losing a fight that they started, one that they’re likely to keep losing for the foreseeable future?”
Your use of the word “bullies” is very interesting.
barking frog
December 10th, 2012
9:19 am
The President has Boehner’s family jewels in his hands and he
should squeeeze. He cannot lose because if we go over the cliff
and he proposes tax cuts for the middle class the Republicans
must agree or be against tax cuts. He can virtually destroy the
Republican Party by doing nothing.
F. Sinkwich
December 10th, 2012
9:20 am
“More free wars. More free F-35s. More free Medicare Part D….”
Nope.
More free student loans, more free mortgages, more free housing, more free healthcare, more free rubbers, more free money for no work, you know, stuff like that.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
9:21 am
“Republicans won the House”
Actually what occured is they barely held on…..nothing was “won”
yes, only in GOP Bizarro-world is losing ground “winning”
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:22 am
BRW
December 10th, 2012
9:18 am
By your logic, Obama barely held on as well.
saywhat?
December 10th, 2012
9:22 am
JKL2- “To fit into your george soros “new world order” the median household income is going to have to drop to $14.4k. You’re voting in the wrong direction if want to see that happen.”
—————————————————
Ummmmm. What? Maybe in bushland that makes some sort of sense, or has anything to do with anything else, but what, I’m not sure.
The fact is I always see Republican commentary saying teachers make too much money, union members make too much money, etc, and they always compare it to average wages in the private sector, which have been stagnant for decades.
Why is the right wing solution the one which calls for the salaries of those doing o.k. to go down, and not the salaries of those struggling to go up? Which would be more beneficial to the country as a whole?
Jeffrey
December 10th, 2012
9:22 am
Corporations are people. Don’t believe me? They get welfare. I think they should only be able to spend the money they get from the govt in front of two bitchy republicans who can scoff at them.
real john
December 10th, 2012
9:23 am
Welcome to the Occupation…
“Occasionally there’s a post that’s so wrong-headed that it really takes you aback. Literally every single thing you said was the diametrical opposite of the truth.”
I could not have said it any better myself. Do you live in Seattle?? Been hit the wacky week a little to hard??
It’s not even worth my time to debate someone who is so misinformed.
Granny Godzilla
December 10th, 2012
9:24 am
F. Sinkwich
December 10th, 2012
9:20 am
more subsidies for oil and gas and coal…..access to special tax rates, access to off shore
accounts…
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
9:24 am
“More free wars. More free F-35s. More free Medicare Part D….”
Nope.
________________
Really? Republicans finally paid for all their free stuff? The 2 wars, tax cuts and Medicare Part D. When did this happen, and who paid for it?
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:24 am
More free student loans… F. Sinkwich
I kid you not, somebody here actually said it.
They said: FREE – STUDENT – LOANS.
LOANS. FREE.
The level of intellectual debate on these boards sometimes hits the floor and smashes through…… buggers the mind.
indigo
December 10th, 2012
9:24 am
Jay – 8:59
So, I must use a rapier instead of a sledgehammer?
I can do that.
BRW
December 10th, 2012
9:25 am
“By your logic, Obama barely held on as well”
Not exactly dirt-road. Take a look at the EC and then tell me how remaining POTUS is equal to loosing seats in the House?
Need to actually LEARN some logical thinking before you spout it out there.
oops
December 10th, 2012
9:26 am
“And it doesn’t get any better in the immediate future. Next on the agenda when Congress returns?
Immigration reform, with Democrats pressing for a path to citizenship and Republicans again split between those who recognize the political and moral necessity of such a step, and those who, like Boehner two years ago, still reject the word “compromise”.”
Mmmm. Wrong.
Next up: debt ceiling increase and either a continuing budget resolution or a real budget.
The Obama debtocracy is going to result in constant fiscal crisis for most of the foreseeable future, crowding out the ability to do much more. Though democrats may try immigration reform.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:26 am
USinUK – not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
9:21 am
Obama received fewer votes and won fewer states. Does this mean that you are living in a Bizarro world?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:27 am
Straitroad — “By your logic, Obama barely held on as well.”
Rejected.
Obama won reelection with more popular votes and a greater *percentage* of the popular vote than Bush received in either of his two elections.
Not only that, but no sitting Democratic legislator (House or Senate at the Federal level) who was up for re-election lost their seat. And if you add up all the votes cast for Congressmen nationwide, Democrats earned over a million votes more than Republicans did.
The only reason y’all still have the house is all the gerrymandered districts you carved out for yourselves, and that’ll be fixed soon enough.
Erwin's cat
December 10th, 2012
9:27 am
I don’t see either side making big concessions…
My “fair share” of taxes will go up @ $12k if we go over the cliff…at least according to MSN Money and the CBO
When it does, I’ll blame both sides for their stupidity
TaxPayer
December 10th, 2012
9:28 am
We suck and deserve the decline we are headed for. Good luck, you will get no help from me if you need it,I’m done helping others.
Our little county has over 900 children that the county dfacs is trying to make sure get something this holiday season. One child asked for a dress to wear to church. Far too many children are brought into this world and then just forgotten. Simply requiring all pregnancies to be carried to term is hardly a plan yet that is all we get from Republicans. The least some of you could do is teach the children having children about sex. Maybe throw in a little information on budgeting, etc., for good measure.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:28 am
BRW
December 10th, 2012
9:25 am
There’s no need to resort to name calling. I was simply pointing out that Obama received less support in 2012. That’s all.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:29 am
WTT Occupation — “They said: FREE – STUDENT – LOANS. LOANS. FREE. ”
Guess he doesn’t know the difference between a student loan and a Pell Grant.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
9:29 am
“They said: FREE – STUDENT – LOANS.
LOANS. FREE.
The level of intellectual debate on these boards sometimes hits the floor and smashes through…… buggers the mind.”
… and pulls out a pickaxe
Granny Godzilla
December 10th, 2012
9:29 am
oops
“The BUSH debtocracy is going to result in constant fiscal crisis for most of the foreseeable future”
Let’s get the facts straight shall we.
Especially when it’s all about personal responsibility for the GOP.
YOU BUIILT THAT.
Aquagirl
December 10th, 2012
9:29 am
LOANS. FREE.
Good to know I’m not the only one who cracked up at b!tching over “free loans.”
Recon 0311 2533
December 10th, 2012
9:30 am
“See how bad things are for Republicans, the left now accounts for over 60% of the American public.”
The above is an example of left think. They truly believe that they now rule the country and Obama appears to believe it as well. This so called fiscal cliff is a mole hill compared to the looming mountain we could fall from if the deficit isn’t addressed. Taking a short fall off the fiscal cliff might be beneficial in the longer run because the public will see how this administration along with their fellow idiots in congress have nothing of substance to offer.
Morality?
December 10th, 2012
9:31 am
Obama’s handlers Nanny Pelosi and Hairy Weed talk compromise but never do. Like brain dead zombie lemmings Obama’s voters follow him over the fiscal cliff that they voted for……… bye bye.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:31 am
Straitroad — “There’s no need to resort to name calling. I was simply pointing out that Obama received less support in 2012. That’s all.”
So Romney didn’t suck as badly as McCain did in 2008. Is that really the kind of think y’all want to hang your hat on?
VOTE ROMNEY — LESS SUCKAGE THAN LAST TIME
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:31 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:27 am
The Gerrymandering works both ways.
Bush wasn’t running for office in 2012.
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
9:32 am
“Next up: debt ceiling increase and either a continuing budget resolution or a real budget.”
So oops, how did Republicans manage to pay off the debt they caused? How are Republicans able to wash their hands of the debt mess? You folks made George W Bush disappear and are now trying the same magic on your debt.
BRW
December 10th, 2012
9:32 am
” I was simply pointing out that Obama received less support in 2012. That’s all.”
But that’s not logic. Equating “less support” to “loosing seats” to “winning”.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
9:33 am
straight –
Obama received fewer votes and won fewer states. Does this mean that you are living in a Bizarro world?
omg … you’re honestly comparing a 1:1 presidential race vs. the house of representatives???
sweet jeebus … you guys can stretch like a yogi
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:33 am
F. Sinkwich:
I don’t want to overload you here and make anything start smoking in that delicate circuitry of yours, but are you aware of what loan is? Usually you have to pay a fee for it, we call it interest. You with me?
Well, do you know of anybody right now getting an interest-free loan to go to school? If you do, I bet you could cause quite a stir by letting all the hundreds of thousands of aspiring college students out there in on the secret, as they’re facing the prospect of decades of indebtedness as they try to pay back big loan amounts and steadily falling earning prospects.
And do you know who it is who REALLY gets INTEREST-FREE loans in this economic system of ours?
Repeat after me: WALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL STREEEET .. WAAALLLL STTTREEEEEET!!!!
Get it?
Morality?
December 10th, 2012
9:34 am
2% of the population is not Mandate and Obama is making a huge mistake: Obama will go down in history as the Herbert Hoover of the 2013 Great Depression. Fed gub’ments credit card has MAXED out and promised checks in the mail will be DENIED.
James
December 10th, 2012
9:34 am
Jay,
Do you agree that there must be cuts to entitlements? or do you think this problem can be solved by merely increasing the taxes on the “rich’?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 10th, 2012
9:35 am
Always dumbfounded by the whine that raising taxes will not “solve anything”
But hey almost 1 Trilliion will only be a start.
Some are suggesting that taxes will go up on the top 2% but perhaps not to the full amount of the Clinton tax rates but that it will be combined with a cap on deductions (excluding charitable giving). Interesting suggestions.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:37 am
Straitroad — “The Gerrymandering works both ways.”
And when the Democrats receive over a million more votes nationwide for Congressional seats thatn Republicans do, it’s only working to save Republican hides. Simple as that.
“Bush wasn’t running for office in 2012.”
And yet Dick Cheney’s pronunciation of Bush’s 2004 reelection as a “mandate” lives on, ground into the faces of Republican hangers-on like a fresh banana cream pie.
EAT IT.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:37 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:31 am
I’m not sure what you are referring to. I didn’t mention McCain or Romney. Both were bad candidates. Historically, presidents that are re-elected receive more support than they did during the first election. Obama received less. He benefited from sub-par opposition and ran a campaign that successfully utilized envy to convince one side that their problems are caused by the other side.
F. Sinkwich
December 10th, 2012
9:37 am
Debt forgiven = free loan.
I accept your apology in advance.
Georgia
December 10th, 2012
9:38 am
Musing over the cliff again? Jay is holding readers hostage with sheer stylized speculation. The fiscal cliff. Of course there’ll be a deal. There’s always a deal. Don’t speculate. We’re all willing to wait for the announcement. And the details. But to torture us like this day after day…… I feel like I’m in a Stephanie Miller sketch where she can’t stop piling on and gloating with her obnoxious brand of humorous insights about the election. And why trend newt? He’s an unread herring. He is the ash heap of red history. And its down his skull that the American Eagle will puke the new demographic realities about the deal, the vote, and the future.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:38 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:37 am
There’s no need to be so hostile.
Aquagirl
December 10th, 2012
9:39 am
We really shouldn’t laugh about the free loan thing since The Fiscally Responsible Friends of Nathan Deal just reached preliminary terms for a free loan to Arthur Blank.
We forgot…free loans DO exist in the Republican Reality.
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
9:40 am
“The above is an example of left think. They truly believe that they now rule the country and Obama appears to believe it as well.”
No recon, you are the one with the bad math.
“Obama’s stand on raising taxes on those earning over 250k is shameless politics designed only to appease the left.”
Obama is trying to appease the 60% that want taxes increased on the rich. You said it, “only to appease the left”. That makes the US 60% left.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
9:40 am
“Debt forgiven = free loan.”
ohsweetjeebus … are you REALLY that stupid or do you just play it on teevee??
if portions of your loan ARE forgiven, it is then considered as income and you’re taxed on it, so you don’t get money for free.
and, besides, those programs are FAR outnumbered by repayment programs.
so, no. your point is moot, numpty.
Jay
December 10th, 2012
9:40 am
James:
Yes.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:40 am
It should be noted that Erskine Bowles, of Obama’s Bowles-Simpson commission stated that the larger part of the problem is spending, not the level of taxation.
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
9:41 am
“Debt forgiven = free loan.”
The Republican plan for their debt,
Debt forgotten = free loan.
OSG
December 10th, 2012
9:42 am
Hmm..let’s see, the Republican Party under the leadership of former president Bush, started two wars, and did not approve ANY funding. The Republican Party AND Bush approved a nonsensical tax rebate, and tax cut. The nonsense of ‘trickle down economics has not worked.’ So the solution from the right is to cut programs, let the 47% starve, so that they can continue to live off the fat of the land…
I say let the tax cuts expire…As Jay said, the Republicans started this mess 12 years ago…so deal with it. Boehner is in a no-win situation…except, he should “grow a pair” and figure out how to re-establish the Pary of Lincoln, by un-loading the Tea Party lunatics…In essence, he should be a loyal Republican and focus on fixing the party…because he isn’t going to win much in Congress.
bookman parrot
December 10th, 2012
9:42 am
to jay, like you have a clue of what john boehner is thinking.
bookman parrot
December 10th, 2012
9:43 am
to OSG,
the libs started it years ago with policies that led to housing bubble
Doggone/GA
December 10th, 2012
9:43 am
I hate to throw a damper on the “free loan” amusement, but there is such a thing. If you borrow $1000 from me and at a later date you pay me back that $1000…I have “loaned” you that money for free.
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
9:44 am
“We forgot…free loans DO exist in the Republican Reality.”
They sure do. I sure would like to know where I can get one of those Chip Rogers/Tom Graves no collateral $2.1 million never-pay-it-back loans.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:44 am
F. Sinkwich: “Debt forgiven = free loan.”
In 2005 our lovely Congress made student-loan debt NON-DISCHARGEABLE. This while they were simultaneously LOOSENING the restrictions on bankruptcy for corporations.
Now tell me, our good intellectual triathlon-man, where are the opportunities for serious moocher-dom really opening up here? Huh?
You’re welcome!
bob
December 10th, 2012
9:45 am
Stands for decibels, The annual deficit has averaged about 1.25 trillion the last four years. Reversing the Bush tax cuts will generate 80 or 90 billion a year. Can you help me out with the math on this one ? I am all for raising the taxes on the rich, even more than the 3% the Bush tax cuts amounted to. But if we keep spending over a trillion more than what we take in, how will we ever get the debt under control ? As it is now, politicians are playing to the wealth envy that is prevelant in this country by saying the tax cuts got us into this position. Obama has proposed another stimulus plan even though we are constantly told that the other stimulus plans worked. And why does Obama say we need shared sacrifice yet only wants the top two percent to sacrifice ?
GT
December 10th, 2012
9:45 am
This is a present day Cinderella story of a mean relative that suddenly has lost leverage. “That is not what we meant at all Cinderella, you are being so unfair”. The GOP shadowed by the Tea Party tried to start a wave around this country but now find they are disturbing adults at work and ask to take their toys outside. They underestimated the awareness, maturity and character of the voting public, made some of the same profiles of the country they did for race and religion, ending up with the same miscalculations. It is like telling those jokes they love that suddenly are placing them in the cave they belong.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:45 am
Straitroad — “I’m not sure what you are referring to. I didn’t mention McCain or Romney.”
I’m not obliged to wait for you to mention something before I bring it up myself.
“Both were bad candidates.”
Indeed.
“Historically, presidents that are re-elected receive more support than they did during the first election.”
Not always.
“Obama received less.”
So? In the aggregate, Democrats blew Republicans out of the water in November.
“He benefited from sub-par opposition”
The best the Republicans had to offer (snicker)
“and ran a campaign that successfully utilized envy to convince one side that their problems are caused by the other side.”
What a pathetically ridiculous assertion.
If his campaign was so lacking, then Romney wasn’t just “sub-par,” as you say. He was absolute DOGSPIT as a candidate.
Aquagirl
December 10th, 2012
9:45 am
Debt forgiven = free loan
Hey Chip, get off the computer—-your cushy new GPB job is calling.
Doggone/GA
December 10th, 2012
9:45 am
“the libs started it years ago with policies that led to housing bubble”
Got proof?
Erwin's cat
December 10th, 2012
9:45 am
“I hate to throw a damper on the “free loan” amusement, but there is such a thing. If you borrow $1000 from me and at a later date you pay me back that $1000…I have “loaned” you that money for free.”
obviously “interest” is not in their narrative
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:47 am
F. Sinkiewicz — “Debt forgiven = free loan.”
= reportable income, ergo NOT free.
“I accept your apology in advance.”
Never happen, Fishy. (laughing)
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:47 am
straightroad: “It should be noted that Erskine Bowles, of Obama’s Bowles-Simpson commission stated that the larger part of the problem is spending, not the level of taxation.”
Mmmmmm yezzzz hmmmmmm Erskine Bowlezzzzzzz good Demmmocrat.
Which means, when the programs for the big game are printed up he gets his picture taken on the Democratic team with all the rest of them.
And he’s a good Wall St. man who couldn’t be bothered about the unemployment crisis, he only cares about the fiscal cliff and spending like his other Wall St. buddies.
Meanwhile, confusion abounds.
Morality?
December 10th, 2012
9:48 am
Danny X – Do you really believe that this $16,000,000,000,000 + debt was created just by “W” and the Repubs during the time he was in office? Dems are just as responsible, if not more so, for this alarming debt than the Repubs – though they both share the blame. Just reminding you that Nanny Pelosi, Hairy Weed and Obama were in Congress while “W” was in office and they voted for every big spending expansion of the Fed Gub’ment Socialist programs. Every single one. They also voted to bail out the banks. Bet you my house against yours that the Fed debt won’t be ONE CENT lower when Obama leaves office than it was the day he started his second term. Politicians tell you what you want to hear to get your vote. This huge debt has been building up long before you were born. Unfunded wars, unfunded socialist programs, unfunded Fed gub’ment give aways overseas…….. the Social Security system is the largest Ponsi scheme in history. It did not start with “W” and won’t end with Obama. Politicians today are Party Loyalists 1st and USA loyalists 2nd. Their primary “job” is to get reelected and to rake in the cash.
OSG
December 10th, 2012
9:48 am
Hmm,
Mr. Boehner…I have a suggestion for you. Cut a deal with the Democrats. Learn how to compromise to get the government working. Ignore your loudmouth ‘party of no’ republicans. In time, the moderates will jump on board with you. The radicals will form their own group. Then, you become the big man on capitol hill, you can use your new-found power to rebuild the Republican Party…and win enormous respect…who knows, if you pull this one off…you could become President :-0
St Simons - aboriginal BOOTAKOOK 2014
December 10th, 2012
9:48 am
actually, even in the House, total Democratic votes outnumbered
Republican votes. Only by gerrymandering did the cons retain
the house by 20+ seats.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:48 am
straitroad — “There’s no need to be so hostile.”
Once you can accept the Republican loss with good grace and without the need to sugarcoat the loss with crap like ‘oh, democrats used envy to win,’ then yes, there won’t be a need for me to be so hostile.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
9:51 am
““the libs started it years ago with policies that led to housing bubble””
ohsweetjeebus, this lie AGAIN????
it really should feature in the next episode of The Walking Dead, it’s so unkillable.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:52 am
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:47 am
No, it means that Bowles, like any other rational person can understand simple math. The revenue bump from the top 2% will barely make a dent in the deficit if we maintain current spending levels.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:53 am
Bob: “The annual deficit has averaged about 1.25 trillion the last four years. Reversing the Bush tax cuts will generate 80 or 90 billion a year”
Cutting spending will make it even worse. But more generally, the snapshot analysis of the yearly deficit is irrelevant. Our interest payments on debt remain quite manageable.
What counts is future growth.
“But if we keep spending over a trillion more than what we take in….”
This fear appears based on a simple fallacy. The deficit is not something that we ultimately have to “pay back” in full. It is simply rolled over into perpetuity. Therefore that kitchen-table fear of how will we ever get out of this debt simply doesn’t apply.
“Obama has proposed another stimulus plan even though we are constantly told that the other stimulus plans worked”
Simple. You’re being lied to.
straitroad
December 10th, 2012
9:54 am
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:48 am
I was merely pointing out the strategy that obama successfully employed to win the election.
Butch
December 10th, 2012
9:54 am
DannyX
““We forgot…free loans DO exist in the Republican Reality.”
They sure do. I sure would like to know where I can get one of those Chip Rogers/Tom Graves no collateral $2.1 million never-pay-it-back loans.”
You should probably get out of your Democrat bubble and realize this has nothing to do with party affiliation…..just ask Chris Dodd and the other friends of Angelo that received some pretty cool Countrywide loans….but obviously you would be ok with this because only Republicans are greedy politicians in your little bubble.
SPC
December 10th, 2012
9:55 am
The tone in Washington was pretty bad under the Bush administration and even though I didn’t vote for him, I thought Obama might improve it. At least that’s what he said he would do. After he was elected, he chose to ram his healthcare legislation through violating his own principles and putting off economic issues. From my perspective, his approach once he had power made things worse, much worse. It’s easy to blame the other guy, but the challenge in leadership is to achieve objectives. This is where I believe Obama has failed. He is a great authoritarian but a bad leader.
Brosephus™
December 10th, 2012
9:57 am
The annual deficit has averaged about 1.25 trillion the last four years. Reversing the Bush tax cuts will generate 80 or 90 billion a year. Can you help me out with the math on this one ? I am all for raising the taxes on the rich, even more than the 3% the Bush tax cuts amounted to. But if we keep spending over a trillion more than what we take in, how will we ever get the debt under control ?
Well, Obama’s idea generates far more money to go towards the debt than the GOP plan did. What GOP plan you ask? The GOP’s idea of federal workers paying more for their retirements and freezing their pay which amounted to all of $75 Billion over 10 years. So, Obama has one-upped the GOP again by putting forth a plan that will generate 10 times the revenue to go towards the debt and deficit. Every time the GOP tries to make themselves seem fiscally responsible, Obama makes them look stupid.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:57 am
straitroad — “I was merely pointing out the strategy that obama successfully employed to win the election.”
No, you were merely expressing your biased opinion of it.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
December 10th, 2012
9:57 am
I don’t believe in the ‘free stuff’ or ‘hand outs’ line from the right. Both sides do this. This is normal in American politics and the only thing upsetting those on the right is that their ‘moochers’ aren’t getting the free stuff. Get over it.
The “red” states are the main ones who TAKE more free stuff than any of the “blue” ones.
But let’s say you’re right, and the GOP are only trying to save us from falling into a 3rd world, communist country. If that’s the case, then they’re going about it the wrong way.
*They say they’re for small government, and yet the republican controlled government butted in on a private family matter, with contrary rules and regulations that laughed in the face of science and reason — Terri Schaivo.
*They say they’re for “free enterprise and capitalism” yet they hand out gas subsidies to gas companies that make over $1B / day.
* They say they’re for jobs, Jobs, JOBS! But since 2010 when a republican congress was elected to lead, the only thing we’ve gotten were legislation/talks on uterus, Uterus, UTERUS!
* They say they’re for the “little man” and understand the pain we’re going through, yet they give themselves a raise every year, while the civil servant, (who actually DOES the work he’s paid to do), gets slammed as being a leech when they want a COLA raise; and the average worker hasn’t received a raise in 8+ years.
*They pretend to worship at the altar of Capitalism & Federalism; but they’re slowly allowing the US to turn into a Totalitarian Oligarchy.
*Then to top it all off — when we the people, (you know the ones who PUT THEM IN POWER), ask them to work for US and help US, they start their war cry of “Wealth Envy”; and intimate that the American people are too stupid to know what’s good for them.
The 8 most scary words in the English language?:
I’m from the GOP, I’m here to help.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
9:59 am
Butch — “You should probably get out of your Democrat bubble and realize this has nothing to do with party affiliation…..just ask Chris Dodd and the other friends of Angelo that received some pretty cool Countrywide loans….but obviously you would be ok with this because only Republicans are greedy politicians in your little bubble.”
Can you substantiate that those Countrywide loans were made with the intention of *never receiving payment for them?*
Or were they simply extremely-low-interest loans, made on very favorable terms and you’re just hoping no one actually knows that or goes to check them out?
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
9:59 am
Straightroad: “No, it means that Bowles, like any other rational person can understand simple math. The revenue bump from the top 2% will barely make a dent in the deficit if we maintain current spending levels.”
Irrelevant. See my 9:53.
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
10:01 am
“Dems are just as responsible,”
That is far from my point. Republicans are using the debt limit as a negotiating ploy. Debt that they are just as responsible for. Debt they take no responsibility for.
When they explain how they were able to pay for all their spending that didn’t include funding they can wash their hands of it. Until then it is their responsibility as much as it is the Democrats to make sure we don’t default. Taking the debt limit hostage is irresponsible.
Now tell me how they plan to pay for the 2 wars, Medicare Part D, and debt created from their failed tax cuts. No deflecting this time.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
10:03 am
the libs started it years ago with policies that led to housing bubble
The fact that this is being grasped at now shows that one side is losing the argument right now, at least on this forum.
Morality?
December 10th, 2012
10:04 am
Obama’s plan to “Save America”? Nationwide lottery with all proceeds going to reduce the Fed Debt, gub’ment legalized taxed marihuana, confiscate the wealth of the evil, dreaded 1%. That should get to about 1/2% of what is owed. Then what? I know – let’s have a bake sale!
DannyX
December 10th, 2012
10:04 am
“.but obviously you would be ok with this because only Republicans are greedy politicians in your little bubble.”
My little bubble includes the Republican chairmen of the state House and Senate banking committees.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 10th, 2012
10:05 am
JAY
What is unreasonable about raising taxes on the evil rich by $80 bln a year. Cuts 57% defense and balance waste in entitlements..of 109bln….both tacitly agreed to now or in the past.
Here’s the kicker…President Trillions can’t spend any more money on new entitlements until we get to some pre-agreed ratio of success. If we don’t no new spending.
Also, I’m still not sure what is the objection to finding a 100 bln or so via minute transaction tax on stocks, derivates and the like..spit in a large bucket plus it’s not like we will lose NYE business to other countries for several reasons..
Net is approx $300 bln a year pick up…
Oh I forgot…both sides may lose too much campaign cash…
GT
December 10th, 2012
10:07 am
Heritage “think tank”, now they are starting to get a sense of humor over there!
Butch
December 10th, 2012
10:07 am
JHM – extremely low interest loan program for the influential…..you are ok with this? I never said they were never paid back but the point is that this has nothing to do with party affiliation. By reading the OP, you would think that the Dems are clean but the Reps are all criminals….
Road Scholar
December 10th, 2012
10:10 am
So repubs…spending is the problem?!
Ok. If we go over the cliff:
1. Remove all funding for Congressional health club ( just what will Ryan do with no mirror to strut in front of?
2. Remove all funding for their healthcare…they can buy it on the “open ” market through their health exchange…Oh Georgia is not setting one up? Maybe Price and the other doctors in the Congress can offer free care.
3. Remove funding and rescind congress’s retirement system and payouts.
4. reduce the per diem expense accounts esp for travel..Steak? How about a tube steak?
Let them live like the rest of us! If you are not going to do your job….
the cat
December 10th, 2012
10:10 am
Headline-Deal for new stadium reached. I do not know of one tax payer that wants this stadium other than the millionaire athletes and the billion dollar Falcons owner.
Donovan
December 10th, 2012
10:10 am
Compromise be damned. You all can come down off your high horse and stop with the childish victory lap. By trying to spin your interpretation of compromise with our rejection of your ridiculous demands is nothing but another form of your tiresome campaign of vilification. And yes, we have a hard time with you all thinking that we owe you something. We saw this same repugnant attitude even when we held both houses and the WH.
Just because we believe in smaller government, smaller taxes, greater freedom, less regulation, a strong military, and proportional rights for proportional production that the Democrat Party opposes, our principles will not be compromised.
Your bullying strategy with the ObamaCare debacle was eye-opening. Another form of compromise from your rat’s nest propaganda department? Forget it Bookman. Forget it Bookman myrmidons. Take your convoluted idea of compromise and shove it.
Knowing that taxing only the wealthy will not solve the economic problems you looters created with the national credit card abuse, is nothing more than an after election punitive action or pay-back demand.
Blaming the Republicans in your media assisted campaign is a cheap tactic used before.
You want compromise? Ok. Let’s all hold hands and jump off the cliff together. That way, we can all share in the “revenue” sacrifice together. That way those Bush “tax cuts” enjoyed by the “middle class” as we’ll as the hated 2% will be eliminated to bring in more “revenue”. That way all those fat deductions on mortgage interest enjoyed by all those Northeast Democrats and those hated 2% bandits can share in the sacrifice. That way all of those hard working families who farm this land and those families that have produced generational wealth can share the pain of a 55% Estate Tax.
Compromise? Go sell that idea to your communist brothers and sisters in another country. Now let the carping begin from all you posters from the left.
How do you talk to a liberal? You can’t.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
10:13 am
Well, Jay, looks like that other shoe you were talking about might be getting ready to drop:
Boehner’s Biggest Threat
Representative Tom Price of Georgia is a conservative force.
Should a debt deal go sour, the buzz is that Tom Price, a 58-year-old physician from Georgia, may challenge John Boehner for the speaker’s gavel.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335187/boehner-s-biggest-threat-robert-costa#
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
10:13 am
Butch — “JHM – extremely low interest loan program for the influential…..you are ok with this?”
Nope. Then again, you brought it up as a defense for Georgia Republicans getting FORGIVEN LOANS, so I’d like for you to explain to me how *favorable* home loans for Democrats are somehow just as bad as OUTRIGHT BRIBES to Republicans.
Please, by all means, explain that to me.
“I never said they were never paid back but the point is that this has nothing to do with party affiliation.”
Of course it does. The fact is that quite simply, Republicans are getting outright BRIBES in the form of forgiven loans, and that you’re deflecting from that by going LOOKA THEM DEMOCRATS GETTIN LOW-INTEREST HOME LOANS.
Come on, Butch. Surely you can see there’s no comparison between the two.
“By reading the OP, you would think that the Dems are clean but the Reps are all criminals….”
Bribery’s still a felony, right? And if you bothered to ask me, I’d say investigate the home loans, too. But the fact of the matter is that loans made, never repaid and then forgiven amount to bribes and possibly unreported income. Help me understand how that’s not as bad as favorable loan terms, Butch.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 10th, 2012
10:13 am
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
10:03 am
Wassup? What exactly is the argument here? That the DEMS suck and the GOP are ok…or that the GOP suck and the DEMS are ok? Get’s confusing after a while eh?
This fiscal cliff is not a big deal…except to the drama queens touting it as such…whoopy, we are arguing over annual amounts that represent such a small portion of total spend. We spend $4 trillion and we are talking about less than $100 bln in increased revenue minimum and up to 109bln of cuts…this is reasonable outcome given the dialogue over the past year or so..
Ergo, if you divide 200 bln into $4.3 trillion in spending…well around 4% issue..
So the world will end? The stock market will crash? That economist turned pundit Krugman gonna have MI?
TaxPayer
December 10th, 2012
10:14 am
Heritage “think tank”, now they are starting to get a sense of humor over there!
Think Tank!
That’s a good one. Heritage is the outfit that “thought” up that scheme for tax cuts to pay for themselves just as soon as unemployment hits 2.8% and stays there. And even funnier, Republicans
boughtbuy it, hook, line and sinker.F. Sinkwich
December 10th, 2012
10:16 am
Dono wins Post of the Day !!!
I reluctantly accept second place…
JohnnyReb
December 10th, 2012
10:16 am
Compromise, Hell. Let little Barry in his arrogance take us off the cliff. My taxes go up either way.
Morality?
December 10th, 2012
10:16 am
Danny X – Now YOU know as well as I do that NEITHER party ever plans to pay for anything. Both sides are playing the “fiscal cliff’ hostage game. Neither wants to compromise. I say let’s go over the fiscal cliff now, blame the politicians that WE voted for, then form a 3rd party based on loyalty to the USA for what is best for the USA rather than Repubs and Dem politicians currently in office who are PARTY LOYALISTS first over what is best for the FISCAL survival of the USA. To do that we have to be give up our socialist programs and “checks in the mail” and reduce the size (payroll) of the Fed Gub’ment and turn over what is best done in the private sector back to the private sector and actually do what the politicians were hired to do – run the Government instead of being the world’s thought police.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 10th, 2012
10:17 am
Donovan — “Compromise be damned. You all can come down off your high horse and stop with the childish victory lap.”
ST*U, Donny.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes
Brosephus™
December 10th, 2012
10:18 am
Damn Donovan. You could have shortened all that by simply saying…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
curious
December 10th, 2012
10:18 am
Has Romney began money raising for his 2016 campaign?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
10:19 am
“Heritage is the outfit that “thought” up that scheme for tax cuts to pay for themselves just as soon as unemployment hits 2.8% and stays there”
not to mention, supplied the brain trust that made the Iraq occupation the “success” (cough) that it was.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48543-2004May22.html
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 10th, 2012
10:20 am
Brocephus – 10:18 –
Welcome to the Occupation
December 10th, 2012
10:21 am
Donovan: “Just because we believe in smaller government, smaller taxes, greater freedom, less regulation, a strong military…”
You can’t have those things. Sorry, you just can’t. And the fantasy that you can is one of the truly dangerous forms of childish, naive utopianism that are out there.
Jack ®
December 10th, 2012
10:21 am
Compromise this: Those paying more Medicare taxes due to the Affordable Care Act will be relieved to know their extra payins won’t go to the Medicare fund but will go into the general fund to help pay for law enforcement, farm subsidies and other stuff. Says in the AJC that the wealthy will help pay coverage for lower-income families’ health care. That’ll show those old, stingy, rich folks a thing or two.