Economic trends bode poorly for the working man
Jonathan Rauch at National Journal has an excellent in-depth exploration of what’s happening in the American economy. The headline, “The No Good, Very Bad Outlook for the Working-Class American Man,” captures its thesis perfectly.
The article focuses on themes that I’ve tried to address here as well, such as the blog post earlier this week detailing how employees are being forced to split an ever-smaller share of the economic pie, while the share of the economy going into corporate profits increases. The National Journal piece tells a similar story through a different chart, this one focusing on increased productivity and how the benefits have been allocated:
Source: National Journal
As Rauch notes, and as the chart illustrates, for decades employees shared in the benefits of greater productivity. As labor became more efficient, both employees and employers shared in the benefits. However, that relationship ended somewhere in the late 1970s, at what you might call “the Big Break” in the U.S. economy. (You see that same transformation occurring at the same time across a wide variety of statistical measures — income distribution, median household income, etc.)
Productivity growth — the chart’s red line — continued and even accelerated after the Big Break, but suddenly blue-collar and non-supervisory workers stopped sharing in the benefits of that increase. A little bit later, the same thing began to happen to a lesser degree to employees in general.
Rauch describes the implications:
As a result, less-educated workers are in trouble, and men are in trouble, and less-educated men are in deep trouble. The problem has become more serious than most people realize. “It has reached a very extreme point,” said David Autor, a labor economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Only a minority of Americans obtain four-year college degrees, and yet the economy offers ever-fewer well-paying jobs for men with nothing more than a high school diploma. Since 1969, the weekly earnings of the median full-time male worker have stagnated, according to economists Michael Greenstone of MIT and Adam Looney of the Brookings Institution’s Hamilton Project on economic growth. Stagnation is disappointing, to put it mildly, given that the per capita gross domestic product has more than doubled (adjusted for inflation) since 1969.
But men with only high school diplomas have faced worse than stagnation: Their earnings have dropped by around a fourth. And men who didn’t finish high school have fared worse still: Their incomes sank by more than a third, leaving their inflation-adjusted earnings stranded in the 1950s.
In effect, the economy is telling less-educated men: Get lost.
That has critically important social implications. If high-school educated males are earning a fourth less than their fathers, they are less able to support a family and less attractive as potential mates. If they do marry and support a family, they are less likely to be able to afford health insurance for them or to pay for higher education.
As exit polls and other data demonstrate, the Republican Party has managed to convince white working-class males that the economic challenges outlined by Rauch can be traced to excess government and, to be blunt, “those people.” It’s an explanation that might feel right and that resonates emotionally. By providing an alternative explanation to that illustrated in today’s chart, it also happens to suit the purposes of those who fund the campaigns and pay the bills for the GOP and its associated organizations.*
However, that narrative cannot plausibly account for the type of dramatic, even traumatic change documented in the chart above. There is no mechanism by which government can be said to be driving that trend. It’s not caused by taxes; it’s not caused by the deficit. And if more and more Americans have become reliant on government, it’s in part a consequence of, not a cause of, the economic decline depicted here.
But here’s the most frightening thing about the chart above: The trend that it illustrates shows no signs of moderating. This is a transformation that could continue to play out for a long, long time, and if we don’t do something to reverse it or adjust to it, it will change the nature of American society.
– Jay Bookman
* (An aside: Did it strike anyone else as odd that when Dick Armey left FreedomWorks, the ostensibly grassroots Tea Party organization, he was handed a golden parachute of $8 million? I had no idea the grassroots had so much green.)
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
362 comments Add your comment
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:06 am
Excuse me ………. I apologize. It wasn’t 8% it was 8.3%
WASHINGTON, D.C. (12/6/12) — U.S. unemployment, as measured by Gallup without seasonal adjustment, was 7.8% for the month of November, up significantly from 7.0% for October. Gallup’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate is 8.3%, nearly a one-point increase over October’s rate.
Wow Scout!! You must have a super duper MAGIC TIME MACHINE!! Yesterday, you said the numbers had came out with 8% unemployment and today, just like that, you’re saying you were off by only a few percentage points!!
Can you go back to 1965 with the time machine and change the course of history? I don’t want The Los Angeles Dodgers to win.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:07 am
I dont want the Dodgers to win the World Series…….
Other part of the sentence.
Abraham Lincoln
December 7th, 2012
10:08 am
Working and Takng…
That is the real issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles, right and wrong, throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time. The one is the common right of humanity, the other the devine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says “you toil and work and earn bread and I’ll eat it.”
alex
December 7th, 2012
10:11 am
Manufactured goods are a commodity and with globalization, the cheapest product (integrating quality and accessibility) will get sold with jobs for those companies that can sell their product:
Price of ton of steel to produce:
USA $625-675
Russia $ 500
Guess whose steel will be bought, whose mills are working and whose laborerers are getting paid ( less yes but this is globalization of the work place, global caitalization) to lay on the doorstep of the repubs is superficial and intellectually dishonest.
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:11 am
Wow, it must be computer day at the asylum. We have Donovan, Sinkie, Cosby, Stevenson Billings, RB AND an assortment of cowardly alts too embarrassed to use their regular screen name………
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
10:12 am
How long did we pay doofuses to buy SUVs and Hummers?
Come to think of it–
How long are we going to go on paying doofuses to live in Alaska?
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:12 am
Hi DDR. Haven’t seen you in a while. Have you been well?
gadem
December 7th, 2012
10:12 am
Education is key, however republicans want to cut funding to education.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
10:14 am
SfD — “How long are we going to go on paying doofuses to live in Alaska?
ZOMG STATE SOSHULIZUM
Brosephus™
December 7th, 2012
10:15 am
Fred
They’re not all asylum residents, although some of them portray themselves as such on the internet.
RB from Gwinnett
December 7th, 2012
10:16 am
“giveaways that reward companies for sending American jobs overseas”
Care of offer up what any of those giveaways are?
Brosephus™
December 7th, 2012
10:17 am
Guess I’m gonna get started on this brake job now. Parts should be cooled off now. Y’all let me know if Mr. Billings ever owns up to his Republican party voting for the sequestration they begged Obama for after winning the 2010 midterms.
RB from Gwinnett
December 7th, 2012
10:18 am
“Wow, it must be computer day at the asylum. We have Donovan, Sinkie, Cosby, Stevenson Billings, RB AND an assortment of cowardly alts too embarrassed to use their regular screen name………”
RB has never once posted here under any other name, Fred. But thanks for thinking of me.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:19 am
Let me get this correct, since I am still learning how to be a liberal. When confronted with factual information that discredits my position, I should resort to name calling ? I know that I am stupid, but I am willing to learn.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:20 am
S. Liberal @ 10:01 a.m. — If you really believe that, I have a bunch of bridges, (that go from California to Hawaii), that I’d like to sell you. Cheap.
Cosby: High School Grds are loosing Ground…the other side of that coin is they are less educated than in the past and getting dumber by the day thanks to Government Schools
NOT Government Schools, they are NOT the problem. The problem is Republicans Governors who have systematically and delibeately weakened the school system by defunding it. In the past, the state, who gets THEIR funds from the government, would supply over 60% of their school districts budgets. Now these same states are hoaridng/keeping the funds and putting the onus more and more on individual school districts.
The districts in turn have to raise taxes on their constituents in order to pay for their children’s education. Hence things like school nurses, physical education, music, art, etc. are being stripped from schools since these districts don’t have the funds to maintain them anymore.
Abraham Lincoln
December 7th, 2012
10:21 am
I know that I am stupid, but I am willing to learn.
+++
your handle (STUPID LIBERAL) speaks for you..perception means a lot.
jewcowboy
December 7th, 2012
10:21 am
I’m late to the party as usual.
“Bring the manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.”
I’m so tired of hearing this drivel. Our economy (and future) is based on the service sector..not manufacturing. Manufacturing is gone…it’s gone to every crap hole on Earth that doesn’t give a rat’s @ss about pollution and have billions of uneducated workers clamoring to work for 12 cents an hour, 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. I for one, am happy to leave those types of jobs to others, and sit in an air-conditioned high rise office not breathing toxic fumes and destroying my body so that by the time I’m fifty I look seventy.
All during this past election, both candidates went on and on about manufacturing, but said not one damned word about what drives our economy…the service sector.
Peter Hay
December 7th, 2012
10:23 am
I suspect that a lot of this decline is related to the decline in Unionization. Somehow Unions seem to be bad in many peoples eyes. I am not sure what drives this attitude, although I am sure it is a combination of many things. I am sure though that the anti union propaganda machine has a big part.
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:24 am
RB from Gwinnett
December 7th, 2012
10:18 am
“Wow, it must be computer day at the asylum. We have Donovan, Sinkie, Cosby, Stevenson Billings, RB AND an assortment of cowardly alts too embarrassed to use their regular screen name………”
RB has never once posted here under any other name, Fred. But thanks for thinking of me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brush up on those reading comprehension skills bro, I mentioned names of the brave who are proud of what they say (you were included in that group) and then the cowards who use alts.
Look at that, I gived you a compliment.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:24 am
Debbie,
So you think our money should not be tied to something of value ? So that would make our money as valuable as the paper that it is printed upon. Gee, what a knee slapper. So our FED can continue with printing money, and it will not create inflation ?? Man I have a lot to learn when it comes to liberal economics.
Go Navy
December 7th, 2012
10:26 am
Where is USMC?
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:26 am
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:19 am
Let me get this correct, since I am still learning how to be a liberal. When confronted with factual information that discredits my position, I should resort to name calling ? I know that I am stupid, but I am willing to learn.
+++++++++++++++++
Right you ARE willing to learn, but first you have to UNLEARN some things. One thing would be NOT to call names when confronted with truth, I know as a hard right fanatic that’s what you are used to doing but it’s bad form. See only FOXBOTS and talk radio sheeple have a hard time discerning the truth……… since they never get it from their puppet masters.
Mick
December 7th, 2012
10:31 am
Poor donovan, doesn’t even realize that what he is advocating is american communism. Yes, let’s get rid of the unions, all 11% percent of them cause that’s the problem, decent wages, health care, take it all so we can compete with $2 an hour china jobs…
Brad Steel
December 7th, 2012
10:31 am
Capital has gotten an advantage over labor in the US? Shocking!
Nunna Yobinnes
December 7th, 2012
10:32 am
A partial solution proposal: Impose an excise tax which cannot be offset by tax credits on executive compensation above (amount to be determined) dollar for dollar. Maybe that will help to curb executive pay.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:33 am
Hiya Fred!! Been busy working, looking after my sister, looking after my aunt, and looking after my nephew, (not necessarily in that order!) I’m trying to finish up as much as I can here so that when the babies do come, I can work more from home.
My sister is due any day now with the twins and my nephew, who’s 18 months is a handful!! My aunt, (special needs), has been very tiring too (I really don’t know HOW my sister managed with her all these years), and I’m thinking of sending my aunt to live with my Mom (her sister), for a few months when the babies gets here. It’ll be a big help if she could take her because my sister and I would get a break.
My bro-n-law has to be the most kindnest man EVAH to put up with a bunch of women, (one pregnant, one half crazy, and one special needs), a toddler AND 3 dogs, (my pit bulls — I’m sending them to live in the country, Douglas County, with my cousin – pit bulls and babies/toddlers don’t always get along so well).
Other than that, I’m doing great!! How are you and Mrs. Fred doing? Oh and WHAT are you going to make for Christmas dinner!!! (please tel me ALL of your plans so that i can salivate over my keyboard!)
====================================
alex: Guess whose steel will be bought, whose mills are working and whose laborerers are getting paid
You forgot one simple thing that cheap labor can’t buy, QUALITY. iF there’s one thing we’ve learned from the crap coming out of China, is that you can’t buy QUALITY. I’d rather pay a little more for something that’s made in America and comes with STANDARDS of purity, etc., then for something that cheaper and may poison me, my family or my DOGS.
And the best part, if it was made in America and my family was hurt by it — I can do something about it. There aren’t any trade negotiations in place where I can sue/hold libel a country like china for poisoining me.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:34 am
Fred,
I have never called anyone a name on this blog or any others. But I have been called a butt monkey, or was it a butt clown, I can not remember.
RB from Gwinnett
December 7th, 2012
10:35 am
“I suspect that a lot of this decline is related to the decline in Unionization. Somehow Unions seem to be bad in many peoples eyes. I am not sure what drives this attitude, although I am sure it is a combination of many things. I am sure though that the anti union propaganda machine has a big part.”
It’s pretty simple really. If company A uses union labor at $25/hr to make widgets and company B uses non union labor at $14/hr to make competitive widgets, which one do you think is going to win in the marketplace?
You liberals can’t seem to grasp the idea that a company and it’s management has to do what is required of them to make and sell a product in a competitive marketplace. It does not matter one bit if they have a benevolent owner who wants to pay their employees double the average and give them free healtcare if they can’t sell their product because of it. None of them operates in a vacuum and has the ability to just do whatever they want as you seem to believe.
Adam
December 7th, 2012
10:36 am
This is hilarious. Before it was “what’s the “real” unemployment rate?” and then it was “What’s the job participation rate?” Then it was “How many people are leaving the workforce?” Now it’s “What’;s the NON seasonally adjusted rate?”
This follows a similar progression to:
Global warming doesn’t exist. Well it does exist but humans aren’t causing it. W ell humans have some effect but not enough of one to cause it. Well ok NASA says humans are mostly the cause but some scientists still don’t agree…
OR
Romney is going to win in a landslide because no one promises to vote for Obama. Well some people promise to vote for Obama but the public supports our ideas! Just look at 2010! Well maybe the public doesn’t support all our ideas but the polls are skewed so Romney is still going to win in a landslide!
Delusional. The lot of you. To your very dying breath.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:36 am
RB,
You did not build that company, the Union and the Government did.
BADA BING (imagine an umlaut above the i, I'm trying to class this place up a little)
December 7th, 2012
10:37 am
Imagine if all the PCs and iPhones were around 71 years ago. Just think of the tweets, instagrams, etc. that would be coming out of Pearl Harbor this morning.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
10:39 am
S. Liberal — “Let me get this correct, since I am still learning how to be a liberal. When confronted with factual information that discredits my position, I should resort to name calling ?”
No, you should sharpen your argument and try again.
OTOH, the standard conservative response in such a situation around here is to do any of the following:
1) Reject the facts if they came from a ‘librul’ source (NBC, CBS, CNN, Washington Post, etc. are all “librul” so this one is often used)
2) Pretend you didn’t see the refuting facts
3) Post that you’re going to pick up your kid/go to a doctor’s appointment/etc. and not post again for a few hours
4) Post a non-sequitur and follow it with
B
O
O
M
5) Pretend you were somehow insulted by the refuting facts and get nasty.
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:39 am
So your handle, Stupid Liberal, isn’t an overt insult to everyone who doesn’t walk lockstep with the far right wing fanatical talk radio listening FOXBOTS? Really? REALLY
Hmmmmm…………. I guess you fail to see the irony?
Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eirōneía, meaning dissimulation or feigned ignorance)
Or maybe we could even say hypocrisy?
hypocrisy: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
Just saying…………..
Just out of curiosity, are by chance a Southern Baptist?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
10:41 am
RB — “You liberals can’t seem to grasp the idea that a company and it’s management has to do what is required of them to make and sell a product in a competitive marketplace. It does not matter one bit if they have a benevolent owner who wants to pay their employees double the average and give them free healtcare if they can’t sell their product because of it. None of them operates in a vacuum and has the ability to just do whatever they want as you seem to believe.”
Jim Sinegal says you’re wrong and he’s more successful than you.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:42 am
I am an Athiest, God does not exist, Stephen Hawkins said so.
Doggone/GA
December 7th, 2012
10:43 am
“there’s one thing we’ve learned from the crap coming out of China, is that you can’t buy QUALITY”
I don’t think that says what you mean. You CAN buy quality, you just have to be prepared to pay for it. I would have said you can’t buy quality CHEAPLY
RB from Gwinnett
December 7th, 2012
10:43 am
“You did not build that company, the Union and the Government did.”
Funny, the only times I’ve seen any government people around my business they’ve had their hand out wanting me to pay some fee or fill out some form and that ain’t helpful!!
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:44 am
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:36 am
RB,
You did not build that company, the Union and the Government did.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
And here you deliberately take what the President said out of context. Is that intellectually honest? I know it makes a nice bumper sticker phrase or even a funny parody song (see below) but is it truthful?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQu2SVFF-cU
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:44 am
Fred,
My Handle, (stupid liberal) is just that, MY HANDLE
JamVet
December 7th, 2012
10:45 am
Care of offer up what any of those giveaways are?
How many more times must this information be provided for the willfully ignorant???
http://thegavel.democraticleader.house.gov/?p=5433
You trickle down idiots just got CRUSHED in the recent election. That makes three times since 2006.
And I am convinced that more are coming your way.
Please, self-deport so that hard working families in this country once again have a fighting chance at realizing the American dream.
Occupy that.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:45 am
Bada – Heard that “PearlHabor” talking point this morning on one of those talk radio shows. I’m trying to figure out which one was it……………….
…………………..Can you remember?
=-===========
suspect that a lot of this decline is related to the decline in Unionization. Somehow Unions seem to be bad in many peoples eyes. I am not sure what drives this attitude, although I am sure it is a combination of many things. I am sure though that the anti union propaganda machine has a big part.
Well, then it looks like Goebell was right:
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
And what was the lie?
Unions Are Bad.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:46 am
Fred,
If we can not make fun of any sitting president, which has been done since Washington, then are freedom of speech is in jeapordy, do you not agree ?? I like to call it Satire
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:48 am
Adam: Delusional. The lot of you. To your very dying breath.
Well, at least they, with their rants, conspiracy theories, and ODS; makes the day go by a bit faster!
===========================
Fred – Recipes?!?!?
===========================
Thanks DogGone.
Old Goober
December 7th, 2012
10:48 am
For the majority of liberals who decided to enroll in liberal arts rather than business administration I’ll give you all a cliff note version of how profits are realized.
What a crock! I happen to hold advanced degrees in both the liberal arts and in business administration, and I see nothing in the latter that makes it even worthy of graduate study. Those who want to blast the liberal arts do so perhaps because they sense their own inadequacy in learning. The assumption that the primary purpose of going to college is to qualify for some job is itself ignorant.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 7th, 2012
10:49 am
RB from Gwinnett: “You liberals can’t seem to grasp the idea that a company and it’s management has to do what is required of them to make and sell a product in a competitive marketplace”
Pefectly true, but you forgot to add “under the current conditions of global capitalism”.
Otherwise, your statement makes a claim to universal validity that cannot be supported.
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:49 am
Stupid Liberal; And hence the reason I posted the video. I liked this picture too when the timing was right:
http://twitpic.com/9jyrvh
Nunna Yobinnes
December 7th, 2012
10:50 am
I guess no one thought too much of my idea. Oh well, Fred says I am stupid.
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:51 am
DDR: I haven’t decided yet. I made cream of mushroom soup (now that is EASY if you like it) the other day and turkey pot pie yesterday. But Christmas? No clue……. maybe a tenderloin on the egg……….
oops
December 7th, 2012
10:52 am
Reagan 10:06
If it is Hillary v Jeb, we will have two good choices. I would likely vote for Jeb. Hillary would likely win. The democrats have a supermajority vote almost for the WH.
GT
December 7th, 2012
10:52 am
You saw Obama own up to his; the rest of the field was betting against him in this last election and lost. O had to carry his record around his neck and have ghost stories added to it and still won. The opposition not only does not own up to their records they hide from them, gerrymandering a minority of the population to match their needs then come to Washington on a white donkey like they have a mandate.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
10:52 am
No Nunna,
I am Stupid, You are Nunna
Fred ™
December 7th, 2012
10:52 am
Nunna Yobinnes
December 7th, 2012
10:50 am
I guess no one thought too much of my idea. Oh well, Fred says I am stupid.
++++++++++++++
I did? I said, “Man Nunna, you sure are stupid.’ Really? I don’t recall that.
Mick
December 7th, 2012
10:52 am
rb
The problem with your example is when the company is making the product at a cost of $5 and selling it for $25 successfully. Then, hoarding all the cash for the top of the pyramid while constantly trying to shaft the actual workers, is why that union is needed to negotiate a fair dividend of the profits. But, we don’t need any unions anymore because in your world, the top executives are the entitled ones…
godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller
December 7th, 2012
10:54 am
I don’t think that says what you mean. You CAN buy quality, you just have to be prepared to pay for it. I would have said you can’t buy quality CHEAPLY
In our biz, we say: “Fast, cheap, good. Pick two.”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 7th, 2012
10:54 am
Perhaps I should change my handle to nunna brains.
Thulsa Doom
December 7th, 2012
10:55 am
If you’re going to have a real discussion of labor economics then we also need to discuss some other trends and real life costs that have had on effect on labor.
The first and most obvious mistake that I see here is one that any dolt could pick out but if the dolts on here haven’t figured it out I’ll do it for them. From what I see on here the study is on wage compensation only. The truth is that while wages may have become stagnant, particularly for unskilled labor, overall compensation has not. In lieu of increased wages workers get more compensation in other non-monetary benefits than they did decades ago. They get more vacation days, personal days, maternity leave days, health insurance, life insurance, car and cell phone allowances and such, expense accounts, and on and on. Doesn’t look like these non wage benefits show up in this analysis. Also some of the costs of these benefits such as health insurance have grown exponentially for employers, thus taking a bite out of wage compensation.
Secondly there are added compliance costs heaped onto business such as the maternity leave act, the disability act, etc. While the benefits of these acts may seem nice they have a real cost to business and it could well be that the overall regulatory compliance costs are coming out of what would have been increased wages for employees.
Thirdly, there is no question that illegal immigration has put downward pressure on unskilled labor wages. The number I’ve usually seen by labor economists seems to be about 15% less in wages for the unskilled. Simple labor supply and demand. Can’t imagine why you guys would leave that out of your analysis.
Fourthly I think we all know that the world is becoming more globalized. If your are unskilled labor and you have little more to offer than an assembly worker working for $2 an hour in China then you stand little chance of competing with him on a global basis.
A lot more going on here than just blaming the Repubs.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
10:55 am
S. Liberal — “I am an Athiest, God does not exist, Stephen Hawkins said so.”
Stephen Hawking or Richard Dawkins?
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
10:57 am
RB from G: If company A uses union labor at $25/hr to make widgets and company B uses non union labor at $14/hr to make competitive widgets, which one do you think is going to win in the marketplace?
Why don’t you put the “human” factor into your equation? Let’s do this $14*5000/0 = 0
The company that’s paying the $14/hr has disgruntled employees; who are overworked and tired and barely making enough to put food on the table. (that’s the 14)
They have a quota of 5000 widgets per day. (that’s the 5K)
They are tired and overworked and some are just saboteurs/malcontents and somehow those 5K widgets are defective and not up to standards. (that’s the 0)
These widgets cause various accidental deaths/dismemberments, etc. and the company gets sued, class action style, and in the end make nothing.(that’s the OTHER zero).
zeke
December 7th, 2012
10:58 am
In most cases an increase in productivity is a direct result of technology and innovation! So higher productivity may actually have nothing to do with actual work performed by an individual! And, for the USA to remain competitive in World markets, considering the union scourge and government labor law over reach, THAT IS A VERY GOOD THING!
Doggone/GA
December 7th, 2012
10:59 am
“Stephen Hawking or Richard Dawkins?”
Both
joe
December 7th, 2012
10:59 am
Best get used to it…only gonna get worse the next 4 years thanks to barry the magnificent. Just wait until obozocare hits…
alex
December 7th, 2012
11:00 am
@Jay: odd that Armey is in d.c. and that many former house and senate memnbers are in very lucrative lobbying positions, Odd–no,not in the least, are you kidding? Ridiculous, but Odd?
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
11:00 am
Stephen Hawkings.. See, I am stupid.
lol
Nunna Yobinnes
December 7th, 2012
11:01 am
Here ya go Fred:
“your lack of knowledge … your blatant declaration of ignorance here”
Erwin's cat
December 7th, 2012
11:03 am
I would blame “automation” followed by “off-shoring”
It’s even difficult for a $200k robot to compete with unlimited super cheap labor
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:04 am
Since we’re talking about working men, and it’s Dec. 7:
http://life.time.com/history/pearl-harbor-photos-from-the-pacific-and-the-home-front-1941-1942/#10
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
11:04 am
RB — “Funny, the only times I’ve seen any government people around my business they’ve had their hand out wanting me to pay some fee or fill out some form and that ain’t helpful!!”
I don’t know what you do for a living, RB, but my old man’s experience is quite diffferent from yours.
My pop’s a professor of Microbiology and Food Science at a major Suthun university, and he frequently gets called on by the State Extension Service, the Cattlemen’s Association (in the state where he lives and works) and even by the USDA.
When Farmer Bob’s having a problem with a crop and he calls the Extension Service — and gets a call or e-mail from my dad or another Extension guy telling him how to solve it, Farmer Bob’s happy.
When the Cattlemen’s Association was dealing with the fallout over Mad Cow Disease several years ago, they called on my dad to explain the ins and outs of the sickness and how to safely process animals to reduce the already low risk of transmission. And you know what? They were *thrilled* to have the help.
And when a food processing plant’s QA team turns up adulterants or bacteria in a production line and they call the USDA to help them figure out where they’re messing up, they’re not upset when the gubmint comes calling. They’re *happy* because it means the problem will be found and remedied, and the production line will be swiftly recertified and placed back in operation.
Again, I don’t know what you do for a living, but some people DO get useful and timely help from the gubmint — and are glad to get it.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
11:05 am
godless: In our biz, we say: “Fast, cheap, good. Pick two.”
word. You can either build a house cheaply – using cheap goods and shady labor; or correctly; using materials that you know are good with dependable labor.
If you take the first route, liquidate & go out of business after about 4 years; cause when that house falls down, there’s going to be an angry homeowner looking for you and some payback.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
11:05 am
G. Heathen — “In our biz, we say: “Fast, cheap, good. Pick two.”
Axiomatic in the IT world.
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:07 am
And, since I feel like sharing:
A sailor chalks a message to America’s fighting men from the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations on a destroyer at Pearl Harbor. “Your conduct and action have been splendid. While you have suffered from a treacherous attack, your commander-in-chief has informed me that your courage and stamina remain magnificent. You know you will have your revenge. Recruiting stations are jammed with men eager to join you.”
Jay
December 7th, 2012
11:07 am
“The first and most obvious mistake that I see here is one that any dolt could pick out but if the dolts on here haven’t figured it out I’ll do it for them. From what I see on here the study is on wage compensation only.
Before you start flinging the word “dolt” around so freely, Thulsa, the “first and most obvious mistake” is once again YOURS.
If you had bothered to educate yourself by actually clicking on the above link, you would find that compensation as defined in the chart means TOTAL compensation, including benefits. It says it plain as day: “Productivity measures the value of the output (brake pads, stock transactions) a worker produces in, say, a day; compensation is a measure of earnings that includes the value of benefits such as health insurance.”
It’s something that any dolt could learn, if the dolt in question cared to do so.
alex
December 7th, 2012
11:09 am
@ debbie Please note : this is what I wrote (integrating quality and accessibility), you must read the entire paragraph before you try to refute, it makes your response specious and devoid of intellectual content. Debbie, it is true that you are left wing, I’ll listen to you, but you rant and rave, don’t fully read others opinions and expect to be respected?
Erwin's cat
December 7th, 2012
11:09 am
G. Heathen — “In our biz, we say: “Fast, cheap, good. Pick two.”
Axiomatic in the IT world.
a bible verse for the product design universe …
That Black Guy
December 7th, 2012
11:11 am
Mick
December 7th, 2012
9:31 am
0311
Really? What have republicans done for middle class job creation? Please, tell us…
________________________________________________________________
From my own experience, the company I work for has been hiring and expanding since I’ve been here. All that dispite efforts from enviromental (hardly conservative or republican) groups to harm my industry. Republicans are leading the way opposing those efforts.
Thus, they are helping my industry expand and continue to create jobs.
We also contract with thousands of independent truckers. Without our product to haul, it becomes harder to feed their families.
It’s not always dems = good, repub = bad.
Old Goober
December 7th, 2012
11:12 am
It’s something that any dolt could learn, if the dolt in question cared to do so.
And in the words of someone we all know . . .
B
O
O
M
!
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
11:13 am
And, for the USA to remain competitive in World markets, considering …..
Hmmm interesting thought.
Hey, want a nice peanut butter sandwich for lunch today? Or how about a nice juicy cantelope?
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:13 am
EC @ 11.09, I don’t know of any trade/profession where that *doesn’t* apply, actually, try as so many might to slough it off.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
11:14 am
E. Cat — “a bible verse for the product design universe …”
I’m always pleased when a Steering Committee or executive team can be convinced to let a launch date or milestones slip, because that tells me that *they* know the axiom, too. They don’t want a crap product, and that’s cool. They don’t want to spend a bundle, but they know it can’t be done on the cheap. So what’s left? Let the timeline slip a little.
I think all techies breathe a sigh of relief when they hear that the executives have agreed to do that.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 7th, 2012
11:14 am
Dolts can learn too ??
That Black Guy
December 7th, 2012
11:17 am
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
9:37 am
Off topic, and purely soap-operatic, but–
Do any of the resident conservatives of a rational bent find the “STUPID LIBERAL” parody act posting here even remotely funny?
_________________________________________
Funny? No.
Annoying, childish, and irritating, Yes.
Worthy of a “blanket party”? Yes
In the “ignore” list? Yes
But, no, not funny.
Doggone/GA
December 7th, 2012
11:17 am
“From my own experience, the company I work for has been hiring and expanding since I’ve been here. All that dispite efforts from enviromental (hardly conservative or republican) groups to harm my industry”
Another way of saying: my industry can absorb and comply with environtmental regulations and still grow and remain profitable
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 7th, 2012
11:18 am
I ran across this while surfing for something to read during lunch. this is a damn interesting read and a real eye opener.
http://www.thenation.com/article/171613/how-save-democratic-party
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
11:18 am
OT: New Star Trek teaser reel is out, and it looks pretty badazz. May 2013 release.
Extra footage to be shown before IMAX screenings of The Hobbit. I might have to go see that, just for the teaser.
They BOTH suck
December 7th, 2012
11:19 am
Thulsa
Doesn’t appear you will be winning the AJC frisbee this week?
Maybe next time.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
11:22 am
Fred: maybe a tenderloin on the egg……….
BEEF TENDERLOIN! (Wow!) Beef tenderloin is exorbitantly EXPENSIVE!! If you make the beef, could you please invite me (just me I’ll pretend something and leave the others at home), over for dinner? I’ll bring the wine!
@alex — Alex I read your “full comment”; and replied accordingly. If you don’t like my comments, that’s your problem. Not. Mine.
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:22 am
Thanks, TBG @ 11.17.
(For the record, there are some liberals here who don’t share my bemusement at Redneck Convert’s long-running act. I hear it’s somehow bigoted, or Josef will point out that he/she gets this or that colloquialism / linguistic usage wrong and whatnot.
What I always appreciate about Redneck Convert is, he/she usually has a larger point to make, beyond the simple parody. Sometimes it is quite literally an angle I hadn’t considered. So, the thought that goes into the parody, plus the relentless willingness to stay in character, plus the funny–that’s what makes me a fan. YMMV.)
oops
December 7th, 2012
11:23 am
Joe Mama 11:18.
You are the most articulate mom’s basement dweller I know.
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:25 am
BEEF TENDERLOIN! (Wow!) Beef tenderloin is exorbitantly EXPENSIVE!
True that. It’s also really the only cut of steak I’m interested in consuming as a grilled product.
The rest of the cow can be stewed, braised, slow-roasted, fed to the cat, but I’m not interested in trying to make it “almost as good” from the grill as loin, ‘cuz it ain’t.
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:26 am
Also too, DDR, it is not *that* hideously expensive if you buy (as we typically do) an entire loin and cut it yourself. Freezes well, if you take care to wrap each slice and seal it properly.
Erwin's cat
December 7th, 2012
11:30 am
The rest of the cow can be stewed, braised, slow-roasted, fed to the cat,…
works for me..a 2 inch rib eye Tuscan style is to die for
JamVet
December 7th, 2012
11:31 am
Corbin, as you know, I have called the Democrats, Republican-lites for a LONG time.
Both are dominated by pro-war and pro-plutocracy sellouts and frauds.
That the goofballs in the right wing think that the Democratic party is controlled by hard core liberals merely proves how blind and irrational they choose to be.
From your link:
The political bankruptcy of the Democratic Party, its historic achievements consigned to the distant past, is not a recent development. The party’s role in the making of the current crisis speaks for itself. For forty years—that is, under both Republican and Democratic presidents and Congresses—the nation’s wealth has been put into fewer and fewer hands (the richest 1 percent now possess more wealth than the less prosperous 90 percent), while ever more people have been relegated to poverty or rendered unable to maintain their hard-earned place in the middle class.
Those degraded Democratic policies included reducing regulations on financial institutions; lowering taxes on corporations, investors and the wealthy; enacting “free trade” measures at the cost of American jobs; and fetishizing “fiscal responsibility” and balanced federal budgets (as though the US government is merely a big family household) to the detriment of social justice and investment in the nation’s infrastructure.
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:32 am
What means this Tuscan style you speak of?
And will you want some kibble with that?
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 7th, 2012
11:34 am
Want more on the Harry Reid BEAT DOWN of Mitch McConnell yesterday?
http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/dems-look-wonder-mitch-mcconnell-filibusters-his-own-proposal
some embarrassing stuff for the Kentuckian. Eat turtle, turtle face.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
11:35 am
Oops — “You are the most articulate mom’s basement dweller I know.”
Sorry, Punkin. Moved out on my own at age 17. And my mom never had a basement.
Jefferson
December 7th, 2012
11:35 am
Basic human fairness has yeilded to greed and selfishness. People are not that different as paydays are different.
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 7th, 2012
11:36 am
What is crazy is $4.99 lb for oxtails. I just don’t understand that.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 7th, 2012
11:36 am
SfD — “Also too, DDR, it is not *that* hideously expensive if you buy (as we typically do) an entire loin and cut it yourself. Freezes well, if you take care to wrap each slice and seal it properly.”
This, this, a thousand times this.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 7th, 2012
11:36 am
stands: Also too, DDR, it is not *that* hideously expensive if you buy (as we typically do) an entire loin and cut it yourself.
Stands, I bow to your knowledge of beef! Until I started cooking classes, the only beef I was familiar with and cooked “partially” well was hamburger meat.
Now that I know the differences about cuts, etc., I still say — WOW!! BEEF TENDERLOIN!!??!!
Damn! I just drooled all over the keyboard!
Stephenson Billings
December 7th, 2012
11:38 am
“The company that’s paying the $14/hr has disgruntled employees; who are overworked and tired and barely making enough to put food on the table. (that’s the 14)
They have a quota of 5000 widgets per day. (that’s the 5K)
They are tired and overworked and some are just saboteurs/malcontents and somehow those 5K widgets are defective and not up to standards. (that’s the 0)”
Yea, because we all know disgruntled workers only come from non-union shops :rolleyes:.
What was the saying from a few decades ago? “Never buy a car built on a Monday or Friday” (or in the UK)
.
stands for decibels
December 7th, 2012
11:41 am
nevermind, EC, I used Teh Google.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5169848_make-tuscan-ribeye-steak.html
Ok, that might be somewhat tolerable as well.