An old conflict between bottom line and human lives
Friends and relatives gather at a burial site for some of the 112 victims of a fire at a Bangladesh garment factory. (AP)
A little over a hundred years ago, a fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in New York killed 146 workers. Many of the victims had tried to flee but were prevented from doing so by exits that had been locked by management. Scores of people died as they fell or jumped from windows to escape the flames, plummeting to the ground from the 10-story building.
The tragedy proved to be an important turning point, helping to lead to passage of tougher workplace safety and fire laws, as well as creation of labor unions in the garment industry. (As someone who covered the 1980 MGM Grand fire in Las Vegas that killed 85, and who witnessed the adoption of much tighter fire-safety rules as a result, I know how that dynamic works. Even after the MGM tragedy, Nevada’s powerful casino industry resisted fire-code changes as too expensive, changing its tune only after a second fire a few months later, this one at the Las Vegas Hilton, killed eight people.)
Now, a century after the Triangle factory fire, an all-too-similar scenario is playing out on the other side of the globe. On Nov. 25, 112 garment workers died in a fire in a high-rise factory in Bangladesh that had little or no fire-protection measures. In September, two similar fires in garment factories in Pakistan had killed almost 300 people.
It is not, in other words, a new problem. As Bloomberg reports, Wal-Mart, Gap and other companies that rely on such factories have been well aware of the dangers they represent. Wal-Mart in fact had technically ended its relationship with the Bangladesh factory where the most recent fire occurred, but the company also now acknowledges that Walmart goods were still being produced there because a supplier had “subcontracted work to this factory without authorization and in direct violation of our policies.”
Overall, however, the companies have been reluctant to help pay for necessary safety upgrades:
At a meeting convened in 2011 to boost safety at Bangladesh garment factories, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. made a call: paying suppliers more to help them upgrade their manufacturing facilities was too costly.
The comments from a Wal-Mart sourcing director appear in minutes of the meeting, which was attended by more than a dozen retailers including Gap Inc. (GPS), Target Corp. and JC Penney Co…
“Specifically to the issue of any corrections on electrical and fire safety, we are talking about 4,500 factories, and in most cases very extensive and costly modifications would need to be undertaken to some factories,” they said in the document. “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
But hey, at least it’s cheaper to do business under those conditions, right? Fewer of those pesky government regulations and inspectors to cause trouble? Paying a few pennies more per clothing item just to save a few hundred lives … “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
From the Forbes listing of the 400 richest Americans
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
455 comments Add your comment
josef
December 6th, 2012
5:31 pm
DOGGONE
Yep.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
5:33 pm
Appology – Is than when an apple has to explain its actions?
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
5:34 pm
Sooth
I could be wrong but I think Russia and China will make any stand over Iran.
Several months ago, I thought one or both would do more in Syria but not sure if Syria brings enough to the table for either to really “bow up”. Not saying they are not or will not do something on a small scale, but not sure a big scale outside of Iran being a prominent player on a big scale.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
5:36 pm
Sooth — “The Russians and likely the Chinese are not going to stand by idly and let Washington’s and Tel Aviv’s hegemony and imperialist ambitions continue.”
Considering the Turks have a 500+ mile border with Syria and they’ve requested several batteries of Patriot SAMs, it’s no longer a matter of American-Israeli ‘hegemony.’ It’s a question of the conflict ALREADY having spilled over into a NATO ally’s territory and the question of whether or not the Russians or Chinese really feel like getting in NATO’s way on this.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
5:38 pm
Sooth – I’m sure Russia and China will do their best to insure that no one interrupts their imperialist ambitions.
josef
December 6th, 2012
5:39 pm
BOTH
That’s my take on it. What’s in it for them?
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
December 6th, 2012
5:40 pm
What really amazes me is the silence of the conned regarding Walmart. When you stop and examine the business model, what you get is a retail giant paying minimal wages to people who cannot afford the company health insurance or any set-aside toward retirement. They supplement their wages with public assistance, food stamps, medicaid, etc. So the government is doing what the GOTP detests the most! The government is subsidizing a corporation AND the people who work there in order to maximize profits for the 1%! Oh, the irony…..
Logical Dude
December 6th, 2012
5:44 pm
From the link: http://www.vizettes.com/perspectives/tc/walmart/walmart-vs-costco.htm
Fulltime employee’s average hourly wage
Costco – $17
Wal-Mart – s $9.68.
CEO’s total 2004 pay
Costco – James Sinegal [Issaquah, Washington-based] $2.7 million
Wal-Mart – H. Lee Scott [Bentonville, Arkansas] $17.9 million
(yes, this shows old pay, so not sure what up to date numbers are)
St Simons
December 6th, 2012
5:45 pm
It is a beautiful thing to see (most of) ‘merka become aware,
at the same time, aware of the power you have as a consumer.
You are 70+% of the world’s largest economy.
Look at that picture above, LOOK at it.
Pull out that big stick & whoop some ass.
Some of you will STILL be surprised how quick this world is gon change.
pogo
December 6th, 2012
5:47 pm
You got to love it. Obama embraced Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood and his people have visited the Whitehouse numerous times over the last few months. And now? He Morsi is hated by his people who are obviously smarter than the American President.
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
5:47 pm
What Tel Aviv and the world Jewry should be concerned with is that their leading the world into World War III causes such a backlash that the results will make the Holocaust look like child’s play.
Russia has already warned the United States and by proxy, Tel Aviv, that it will “not allow Syria to become another Libya.”
Israel has, unfortunately, cast its lot with a madman — Netanyahu — who very likely will cause the world more pain and suffering than ever caused by Adoph Hitler — although for different reasons.
Notice how Israel waited until after the U.S. elections before its actions against Palestine?
Notice how the U.S. waited until after the U.S. elections before raising this “chemical weapons” hoakum?
It’s almost like they’re following a script isn’t it?
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
December 6th, 2012
5:49 pm
Then there is the “Perfect” business model: ARAMARK! Aramark is the dominant vendor for hospitals, sports stadiums, arenas and other venues, primarily for food services. Aramark has relatively few employees. Instead og the headaches associated with managing employees, offering benefits, etc., Aramark takes each concession (sandwich stand, burger stand, beer stand) and signs an agreement with a non-profit (mostly churches). The non-profit agrees to provide specified staffing levels. These people are volunteers. The non-profit accepts a percentage of the revenues for operating the storefront, prepping and cleaning, Aramark provides the infrastructure (POS, cleaning supplies, etc.). No vacations or sick days. No overtime. No hassles! Remember that the next time you pay $15 for a hot dog and a beer at a football, baseball, or basketball game!
dbm
December 6th, 2012
5:51 pm
Jay, you’ve got a powerful emotional argument there. Can you give us some more logic? I thought you preferred intellectual appeals to emotional ones.
You might start by addressing these questions.
Who has primary responaibility for the safety of a factory?
Do you have any documentation on just what the upgrades woiuld cost?
What, exactly, does the personal financial worth of the Waltons, accumulated over time, have to do with what is currently financially feasible for the company?
Is fire safety one of the tradeoffs third world countries and companies have to make becauase of their limited resources? (There are probably ways we could have spent more money ahead of time to reduce the deaths from Hurricane Sandy. Does that mean somebody was bad for not spending it?)
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
5:51 pm
And what about Russia’s not-so-veiled threat gives them the moral and ethical high ground? They only look to preserve their own interests, and will attempt to intimidate anyone they perceive as a threat.
St Simons
December 6th, 2012
5:53 pm
you know what they’re MOST scared of?
that you’ll form a Consumer’s Union.
that’s it. think about it…
josef
December 6th, 2012
5:54 pm
“What Tel Aviv and the world Jewry should be concerned with…”
…is that there are still those this mired in this 19th Century anti-Semitism…
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
5:54 pm
And what about Russia’s not-so-veiled threat gives them the moral and ethical high ground? They only look to preserve their own interests, and will attempt to intimidate anyone they perceive as a threat.
Syria is Russia’s ally. They don’t need any moral or ethical high ground. As if Washington and Tel Aviv have any high ground.
Make no mistake: this is pure hegemony and imperialism. If you can’t see it, don’t blame me.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
5:55 pm
Aren’t you glad that everyone is advocating gutting the defense budget? Putin is just as scary as any previous “Soviet” dictator.
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
5:56 pm
josef: this has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. Once again you take the low ground rather than argue on merit. Of course there is anti-Semitism. That’s not the question here.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
5:58 pm
joseph
Iran has “more” for Russia and China to make a stand.
Syria an old ally may not be worth the trouble and resources for them in the long run…
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:00 pm
SOOTH
Oh, horse sh*t…that “world Jewry” cr*p? There is no more anti-Semitic a choice of words than that..
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
6:00 pm
What I resent most is that a pip-squeak country like Israel (which is the size of New Jersey) is on the verge of involving the world in a new World War III. Second to that I resent that a country like Israel has de facto control through AIPAC over our country and its Legislature. I stand amazed at how our Great Country ever came to this point.
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:01 pm
BOTH
I am much more concerned with Iran’s role there…they do have a stake in the outcome, and a pretty hefty one…
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
6:02 pm
josef: what would be the UN anti-Semitic way to say it then. I have no anti-Semitic feelings.
Would you prefer Jews of the world?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
6:03 pm
Oh and radical islam has nothing at all to do with this conflict?
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:05 pm
For a pip squeak country and a rag tag lot of some 16 million people them Jews sure seem to be a mighty bad ass bunch! Make up your mind, are they miserable cretins or the most powerful force in the world, bent on taking us all into captivity…
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
6:06 pm
I guess size does matter, huh?
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
6:07 pm
dbm:”What, exactly, does the personal financial worth of the Waltons, accumulated over time, have to do with what is currently financially feasible for the company?”
From Logical Dude 5:44:
Fulltime employee’s average hourly wage
Costco – $17
Wal-Mart – s $9.68.
CEO’s total 2004 pay
Costco – James Sinegal [Issaquah, Washington-based] $2.7 million
Wal-Mart – H. Lee Scott [Bentonville, Arkansas] $17.9 million
Kind of says it all right there.
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
6:07 pm
Oh and radical islam has nothing at all to do with this conflict?
Don’t forget that Libya, Egypt, and Iraq all had peaceful secular governments before Western intervention.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
6:08 pm
assad is about to fall.
morsi’s power move was a major mistake.
Chemical weapons on the move in Syria.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 6th, 2012
6:09 pm
And of course the Soviets (intentially used word) will come to the defense of their allies (i.e. strategic oil producer client states), because they are just so humanitarian. They really care (sniff, sniff) about the poor people of Iran and Syria.
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:10 pm
SOOTH
I would prefer that you have sense enough to quit lumping all Jews together in some mysterious conspiracy. But the chances of that happening are slim-to-none. You are the classical anti-Semite and express yourself and your hatred in those terminologies. It makes your product much harder to sell.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
6:11 pm
pogo
Kinda funny the way you frame things: first of all, the egyptian people elected morsi and now that they have buyers remorse egyptian style, you want to blame obama? That makes no sense what so ever or is just plain nonsense!
I, for one, am applauding the egyptian people for demonstrating against one who aspires to be a dictator, that’s a good sign…
dbm
December 6th, 2012
6:12 pm
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
6:07 pm
That’s slightly more relevant, since you’re talking about current pay. But I still see more emotion than logic in your post, and nothing about fire safety.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
6:12 pm
Josef
Understood and that is why I mentioned “small” and “large” scale..
Iran is reliant on Russia and China to an extent imo..
If they say let it go, I don’t see Iran totally doing so, but as Syria is a proxy to an extent to Iran…. So is Iran to an extent to their big brothers. Nothing is set in stone and any nation can still react, but I see the two big brothers pushing Iran to let it go..
Of course that will not happen on absolute terms on every level, but imo is what could be working on the back burner.
blahblahblah
December 6th, 2012
6:12 pm
When asked:
“how much of that liability lay at the feet of consumers wanting cheaper and cheaper crap from walmat and company?”
Jay said: “In the end, Erwin, an awful lot of it.”
Yet Jay chose to single out the Walton family instead. Gee, I wonder why.
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:13 pm
I guess the Waltons must be Jews…
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
6:13 pm
This blog is like making daub. You can’t help getting shyte on your feet. Enjoy your next war. Good night.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
6:13 pm
The end of President Obama’s first term is going well.
No drama Obama indeed.
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:15 pm
BOTH
“… but I see the two big brothers pushing Iran to let it go..”
Again, that’s pretty much my take on it, too.
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
6:16 pm
I would prefer that you have sense enough to quit lumping all Jews together in some mysterious conspiracy.
josef: I never said or implied that. What I said was they may suffer the consequences — by extension — of the actions of the Israelis.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
Good night!
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
6:17 pm
josef
Essentially I see ties being cut… Maybe not being cut totally and publicly but slowly cutting an ally that has served its purpose and now must sink or swim, one way or the other
Political chess to say the least
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:19 pm
SOOTH
Who put words in your mouth? Your mouth to G-d’s ears…
The other half of your brain.
December 6th, 2012
6:21 pm
getalife
December 6th, 2012
3:44 pm
Yes, I get my meds at Walmart.
So?
So?, People like you are the first ones to complain about something and yet you are part of the problem.
Do you even know what this thread is about?
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:21 pm
BOTH
@ 6:17
Yep.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
6:23 pm
This has been a banner or boner of a week for republicans in congress; first they refuse a UN treaty based on our disability act, they say it affects home schooling or black helicopters or something. Then, the senate minority leader mitch mcconnel proposes a bill and when taken up on it, has to filibuster it himself!!!
Anybody out there that is a political junkie? This is equivalent to giving gun shooting lessons live on TV then proceeding to shoot your self in the butt…way to go mitch, you obstructing doofus…
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
6:23 pm
Judge may invalidate GM bailout
http://freebeacon.com/bailout-on-the-brink/
Right before the bankruptcy, GM transferred a bunch of GM Canada liabilities to the old GM (US) to make the “disappear” (and apparently did this with other overseas divisions as well).
GM Canada’s creditors sued and it’s in court right now. The judge has indicated that he is very unhappy about the court being mislead.
Such a decision could force both GM and GM Canada into liquidation.
Oops
December 6th, 2012
6:24 pm
Bye morsi
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
6:26 pm
dbm: “That’s slightly more relevant, since you’re talking about current pay. But I still see more emotion than logic in your post, and nothing about fire safety.”
It’s true that the evidence presented here is thin. That’s kind of the nature of this forum, in most cases. The arguments presented here in the original posts are not always supported with detailed data – though they sometimes are – and with this issue I suppose that’s because there is large body of assumed background knowledge that is more or less shared here, such as the relentless rollback of labor rights over the past 30 yrs, the relative stagnation in wages among the bulk of workers as corporate profits soar, and the emblematic role of Wal-Mart as the poster boy for all these trends, it being the company that has best embodied the trends and in many cases accelerated them by virtue of the company’s phenomenal reach and power. So, based on all those things, it kind of follows what the relationship between fire safety and costs are.
Are you suggesting that the matter of worker safety is a matter where you can simply put a price tag on? Do you work in a workplace where there is a significant risk of fire exposure? Do your family members, children?
The other half of your brain.
December 6th, 2012
6:26 pm
Jat the Masterbaiter, Should write an article on how the Waltons started with Billions, Oh wait, they didn’t.
All I ever see on this blog is when someone takes risk and makes a lot of money they all of a sudden become evil people.
Maybe if Jay was smart enough to start his own business he would see things differently than just wtiting a blog.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
6:30 pm
half a brain
The father took the risk, not the kiddies, how did they earn it? No one begrudges them a fortune but billions of dollars at the expense of worker exploitation? Cry me a river…
The other half of your brain.
December 6th, 2012
6:35 pm
Mick
December 6th, 2012
6:30 pm
half a brain
The father took the risk, not the kiddies, how did they earn it? No one begrudges them a fortune but billions of dollars at the expense of worker exploitation? Cry me a river
Mickey, It’s been said a thousand times, if you don’t like them don’t shop there.
Just about everyone feels that they have been exploited at one time or another. There has been exploitation going on since the beginning of time.
If what they do is a crime then they should be punished, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:40 pm
So, where did Sooth get off to? I think he may be doing some light reading…
http://www.radioislam.org/protocols/quote-eng.htm
Old Retired English Professor
December 6th, 2012
6:46 pm
Be careful. You never know when OREP is here. He might return your essays with a less-than-favorable evaluation of your own use of the English language. :=)
I too failed my share of aspiring students, but only when the grade was deserved. But I was generous when compared to some of the professors of my undergraduate alma mater. There, I once took a class in which I earned the highest grade—B++++++. That professor posted grades such as F with seven minuses, etc. That, of course, was before grade inflation hit college campuses. Now, it seems that half a graduating college class earns honors.
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
6:50 pm
Now, it seems that half a graduating college class earns honors.
not honors, but certainly enough to keep HOPE and Fed fountains flowin
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
6:51 pm
Mick @ 6:11
You haven’t figured out yet that pogo is the blog’s version of Rudy Guliani? Every post he makes is noun – verb – blame Obama.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
6:54 pm
brain
My comment had nothing to do with shopping there. As I said earlier, one billion dollars is ten hundred million, how much is enough? If you had that kind of money, wouldn’t you feel a sense of obligation to make you workers lives better???
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
6:55 pm
The other half of your brain, what kind of ridiculous cynical rant is that?
You’re wrong everywhere, on every single point. For starters:
“Mickey, It’s been said a thousand times, if you don’t like them don’t shop there”
No, boycotting is not an option for a behemoth like Wal-Mart. Plus, it’s not just a question of not “liking” them. It’s the fact that we disapprove of what Wal-Mart is. And we reject the global economy of which it is the symbol. Low wages, terrible working conditions, while capitalists line their pockets at the workers’ expense.
“There has been exploitation going on since the beginning of time”
Yeah and there have also been uprisings, rebellions, and social pressures since the beginning of time too. What’s your point?
“If what they do is a crime then they should be punished…”
Since when did the existing laws perfectly express what is just?
josef
December 6th, 2012
6:59 pm
OREP
I may have told this story before, but in case you didn’t catch it. I had one of those butt-kicking teachers in high school (English, Latin and French). If you came under her special attention, you could be assured of having to produce to her expectations. When I was working on my junior year term paper, I put untold hours into the research, and read, reread, and read again the manuscript. When it was returned, there was one red mark and a big F. Of course, I wanted to know why when all I had done was to leave out a comma. She wouldn’t tell me, but told me to read it over until I found out why. I read, reread, and read again a dozen times over. Finally, it hit me. By not putting in the comma, I had stated my thesis in such a way that the argument which followed drew the opposite conclusion than I had intended. When I told her, she smiled, opened the grade-book, and showed me my A+!
Even if I don’t show it here, I learned the lesson.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
6:59 pm
southern comfort
Funny how so many just cannot step outside the box and challenge their thinking.
I will never understand the people who are lucky to crack 50k in a year who give unequivical support to the wealthy class,? but then, that’s their problem…
josef
December 6th, 2012
7:02 pm
BROSEPHUS
@ 6:51
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
7:04 pm
What is considered a “good” working wage?…not great, but survivable with some dignity…and without assistance…and not every burger flipping’ job…teenagers need jobs too…
$40k? ..that’s $2500/ mo take home….will that get you a reasonable roof, car, & food etc?
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
7:05 pm
Mick @ 6:59
Agreed. Best marketing in the last 100 yrs is those making 5OK or there abouts equivalent to that time in question, to vote against their own economic interests….
Mick
December 6th, 2012
7:06 pm
josef
What a beotch! Get real, looking back even without that comma it should have been a D—– at worst…
JamVet
December 6th, 2012
7:10 pm
Woke up this morning and for no reason that I can think of, this one was playing in my head…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCV-qY05Qlo
Old Farmer
December 6th, 2012
7:11 pm
I’ve seen the comments on this thread about abortion. I’ve been around for a while and I have had a chance to observe the Republican Party for a long time.
It wasn’t that long ago when I didn’t hear a single word from the Republicans about abortion. They “found” this issue and seized upon it (about the same time they became “the Party of God”) because it was a neat way to trick less intelligent voters to vote against their own interests. It worked in many cases.
I’m glad the American people are finally waking up to the truth of today’s elite Republicans. They will literally do anything to make a dollar, and all the religion and moral talk is pure campaign propaganda.
Corey
December 6th, 2012
7:12 pm
@STUPID LIBERAL
December 6th, 2012
1:05 pm
Newsflash, some of your cohorts are weaning themselves off Rush-A-Cola. Heck, even Paul Ryan has suddenly got religion and is singing a new tune.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
7:15 pm
Mick: Funny how so many just cannot step outside the box and challenge their thinking.
That would require them to think. What is there to challenge if you allow others to think for you? In case you need further explanation of that $50k and under crowd, here’s an explanation for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91usT4P1u0
Dekalb comments
December 6th, 2012
7:19 pm
@Erwin’s cat 7:04 p.m.
That is a great question. I think there are probably a number of factors that determine what is a “working wage”. A working wage in New York City is likely higher than the same in a small town in central Iowa (not picking on Iowa).
The point I took with Jay’s blog topic was that companies (WalMart but many others) offshore production and assembly in order to save money. The calculus is if they can reduce the cost of production they can either reduce the price and sell more or keep the price the same and make more profit.
This is done against a backdrop where these company executives do not ensure sufficient oversight of these facilities to protect the lives and health of the workers. These same executives would never allow one of their family members to work in these settings but don’t pro-actively police and monitor these for the most basic of human consideration.
They are either engaging in immoral corporate governance or they think it is fine to place the health and lives of the workers that make the goods to fate.
Many of these same executives are members of their respective faith communities and think they are moral individuals. Their actions in management, oversight or the boardroom betray their hypocrisy.
josef
December 6th, 2012
7:23 pm
MICK
Oh, not from her! She was one great teacher! I won’t ever forget in her Latin class when she gave us the sentence on the board to translate: Ecce, quae mater laborat! The translation of which was to be, Behold, that mother works!
One of the kids in the class, a Bubba type who had never, to anyone’s knowledge, raised his hands to answer a question, raised his hand. She called on him, “Look at that mother work!” We all rolled laughing, and poor Bubba was mortified. The teacher, smiling, puts his answer on the board, and then says, “translate that.” Right. Robert got his C for the term which was enough for him to pass the course and graduate with his foreign language requirement.
When she started to teach us “Richard Corey,” she noted that I was reciting it quietly and not looking at the text. She remarked, “I should have known you’d know that one by heart, Richard.” We talked about that for about an hour after class…she knew.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
7:25 pm
What is considered a “good” working wage?
I guess that’s all dependent upon where you’re living. $25k a year would leave you in a cardboard box in NYC, but you’d be ok with that in my hometown of Gadsden, AL. I don’t think that would be a point of contention or question if costs had stagnated along with wages over the past 30 plus years. Technology has allowed the costs of some goods to drop, but it’s still not cheap to live in a major metropolitan area.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 6th, 2012
7:30 pm
Bro
You can survive in a large metro area (if the have well placed public transit) sometimes for less than people think.
But you are correct that a bare minimum wage needs to be decided not as one wage but determined by cost of living per area.
josef
December 6th, 2012
7:35 pm
COMMON
“…but determined by cost of living per area.”
There’s a logic to that. The problem, though, would come from who is setting that minimum. If it were set locally, you would have competition for who is paying the lowest in bringing in jobs.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 6th, 2012
7:39 pm
josef
It would have to be set at the federal level. The same way National Per Diem rates are set.
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
7:44 pm
yeah, i really hadn’t considered the demographics when i posed the question…was thinking of the big fish little fish scenario…if the wage was increased to get there but so would the cost of goods…before ya know it…it doesn’t matter….like a CEO making $3 mill/year of a 10k employee company…give that CEO salary to the workers instead and it’s only a $300/yr stipend…it is not the reason for the inequalities that i can tell
josef
December 6th, 2012
7:49 pm
COMMON
Okay.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 6th, 2012
7:49 pm
EC
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/average-ceo-pay-2011_n_1545225.html
Interesting numbers.
Dekalb comments
December 6th, 2012
7:50 pm
@Erwin’s cat @ 7:44 p.m.
I think the current debate around Papa John’s CEO stating he would have to layoff many workers because of Obamacare because it would raise the cost of producing a pizza by $.15. 15 cents!!!!
So rather than consider either increasing the price of a frigging pizza by $.15 OR reducing his profit by that amount on a pizza, he wants to take it out on the employees.
This is where capitalism becomes immoral. There are no moral absolutes aside from I guess the 10 Commandments. But I have a gut feeling around what is moral in the way you treat others in your personal and business life. I think his statements around either charging $..15 more to maintain his profit margin or give up $.15 per pizza profit revealed he is an immoral scumbag. I would not waste my urine on him if he was on fire screaming in agony on a street corner. I would ask God for forgiveness but I think he would be okay with that.
JKL2
December 6th, 2012
7:59 pm
Sam believed in buying American. That all went out the window once he died.
Maybe the AFL-CIO will step up to save those poor people in Bangladesh…
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
8:02 pm
EC
Even tough we have many political differences, seems you bring much thought and experience along with your opinions.
I appreciate that even when I’m being the smart behind.
Keep up the good work and doing what you do.
barking frog
December 6th, 2012
8:09 pm
Sam Walton is dead and WalMart died with him but it takes a
giant a long time to die and it usually dies in bits and pieces.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
8:20 pm
President Obama is the weed President.
I saw Americans legally smoking weed at the Space Needle last night.
One man was jumping up and down shouting “freedom”.
Jm
December 6th, 2012
8:22 pm
Gore: Obama sux
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/al-gore-obama-must-get-moving-84728.html?hp=l7
Elections Have Consequences
December 6th, 2012
8:24 pm
Interesting blog. Of course, this means the socially-conscious Liberals will eschew their ‘Holiday’ shopping at Wal-Mart, Gap, Banana Republic and any other retailers who source goods from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Vietnam or any other country providing intolerable working conditions. Instead, all gifts will be handmade from empty granola boxes and used burlap sacks.
This will be coupled, of course, with an additional show of worker unity, including a complete divestiture in all pensions, 401’s, or other investments which include any holding of things ‘Apple’, demonstrated as a purely evil capitalist entity, as outlined below.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Finally, any iPads/iPods /iPhones/MacBooks, or any other consumer item bearing the dreaded Apple logo, will be quickly gathered up and deposited into the nearest public fountain, wading pool, or accessible body of water, all whilst chanting ‘equality for all’.
Far fetched? Yep. Hypocritical? Definitely.
Want to improve conditions? Stop buying the products.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
8:26 pm
You can survive in a large metro area (if the have well placed public transit) sometimes for less than people think.
True, but in the age of austerity, what major metropolitan area would be able to increase their investment in public transit to meet that need?
————————-
EC
yeah, i really hadn’t considered the demographics when i posed the question
Not a problem at all. At least you’re thinking and not simply reciting rhetoric as though it was last year’s Easter speech at church. That garners much respect from me as that’s why my thinking is constantly evolving. I try to look beyond my personal perspective and try to see things from the perspective of others.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
8:28 pm
Finally, any iPads/iPods /iPhones/MacBooks, or any other consumer item bearing the dreaded Apple logo, will be quickly gathered up and deposited into the nearest public fountain, wading pool, or accessible body of water, all whilst chanting ‘equality for all’.
I despise any and all Apple products, not because of where they’re made but because of the stringent proprietary control over their platform. I can get the same services from any non-Apple product. My phone is android based, and with their open platform, people have the freedom to create and sell any application they so desire. Apple’s platform doesn’t offer that same freedom.
As an American, I always tend to side with freedom.
JamVet
December 6th, 2012
8:32 pm
getalife, incredible.
Hell, we finally ended our mini-prohibition here not long ago.
Who Knows? In another 85 years or so, weed may be legal in Georgia!
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
8:35 pm
TBs – thanks. i don’t deserve the compliment….like you and a few others around here, just trying to keep it real….it’s my background training…..at the same time…we all have our moments, good…and not so good…thanks again
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 6th, 2012
8:35 pm
Who Knows? In another 85 years or so, weed may be legal in Georgia!
And 85 years after that, we can buy it on Sunday.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
8:37 pm
JamVet,
100 years.
dbm
December 6th, 2012
8:45 pm
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
6:26 pm
I’m suggesting that any safety measure has a cost, and that people, organizations, and countries whose resources are limited have to weigh this along with everything else in deciding what to do. The richer anyone or anything is, the more fire safety they can afford, just like with everything else.
stands for decibels
December 6th, 2012
8:45 pm
I despise any and all Apple products
They make pretty toys. I find them frustrating to use beyond a very superficial level, but to be honest I haven’t messed around much with ‘em.
/drive-by
getalife
December 6th, 2012
8:46 pm
“STONED IN SEATTLE!” drudgey spam.
nobodyyouknow
December 6th, 2012
8:47 pm
Stupid Liberal! You’re not so stupid. Keep um comming. Untill we go over the CLLLIFFFFFFF.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
8:52 pm
Funny how both florida and georgia are so behing the times yet both states have the climate to grow some of the best weed in the world! Yahoo’s, it’s a southern disease…
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
9:01 pm
EC
Well deserved and you are welcome.
With all our “political” and “financial” problems and issues we need numerous voices from all sides. My agreement on any given issue is really never the point. It is if we as a nation are taking the best and brightest from all perspectives that made us and will continue to make us the BEST DAMN NATION on this earth..
And that goes even when TBS is adamant on an issue but is not correct on what it will take to get us there.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
9:05 pm
And that goes even when TBS is adamant on an issue but is not correct on what it will take to get us there.
Isn’t that simply a long winded way of simply saying “always”???
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
9:08 pm
Jm
How drunk can you get on your whine>
Give it up man. You will be alright……. maybe
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
9:10 pm
Bro
Was working on my humble side
Give a Latino brother a break
Mick
December 6th, 2012
9:10 pm
brosephus
In a way it’s kinda fun that nick satan is returning to the scene of the crime and playing against notre dame…it’s gonna be a real exorcism! No matter how it turns out, south florida will finally be able to let it go….