An old conflict between bottom line and human lives
Friends and relatives gather at a burial site for some of the 112 victims of a fire at a Bangladesh garment factory. (AP)
A little over a hundred years ago, a fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in New York killed 146 workers. Many of the victims had tried to flee but were prevented from doing so by exits that had been locked by management. Scores of people died as they fell or jumped from windows to escape the flames, plummeting to the ground from the 10-story building.
The tragedy proved to be an important turning point, helping to lead to passage of tougher workplace safety and fire laws, as well as creation of labor unions in the garment industry. (As someone who covered the 1980 MGM Grand fire in Las Vegas that killed 85, and who witnessed the adoption of much tighter fire-safety rules as a result, I know how that dynamic works. Even after the MGM tragedy, Nevada’s powerful casino industry resisted fire-code changes as too expensive, changing its tune only after a second fire a few months later, this one at the Las Vegas Hilton, killed eight people.)
Now, a century after the Triangle factory fire, an all-too-similar scenario is playing out on the other side of the globe. On Nov. 25, 112 garment workers died in a fire in a high-rise factory in Bangladesh that had little or no fire-protection measures. In September, two similar fires in garment factories in Pakistan had killed almost 300 people.
It is not, in other words, a new problem. As Bloomberg reports, Wal-Mart, Gap and other companies that rely on such factories have been well aware of the dangers they represent. Wal-Mart in fact had technically ended its relationship with the Bangladesh factory where the most recent fire occurred, but the company also now acknowledges that Walmart goods were still being produced there because a supplier had “subcontracted work to this factory without authorization and in direct violation of our policies.”
Overall, however, the companies have been reluctant to help pay for necessary safety upgrades:
At a meeting convened in 2011 to boost safety at Bangladesh garment factories, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. made a call: paying suppliers more to help them upgrade their manufacturing facilities was too costly.
The comments from a Wal-Mart sourcing director appear in minutes of the meeting, which was attended by more than a dozen retailers including Gap Inc. (GPS), Target Corp. and JC Penney Co…
“Specifically to the issue of any corrections on electrical and fire safety, we are talking about 4,500 factories, and in most cases very extensive and costly modifications would need to be undertaken to some factories,” they said in the document. “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
But hey, at least it’s cheaper to do business under those conditions, right? Fewer of those pesky government regulations and inspectors to cause trouble? Paying a few pennies more per clothing item just to save a few hundred lives … “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
From the Forbes listing of the 400 richest Americans
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
455 comments Add your comment
Jack ®
December 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
We’re gonna have to close Walmart. After that, we need to take all the Waltons’ money and distribute it among those more deserving; it’s the only fair thing to do. And while we’re at it, we need to give Obama the power to levy a tax on all savings accounts, IRAs, 401s and dare anyone to start a business with the idea of making money. I mean, why would anybody be so foolish to think they should make money just because they’re in business. I want to thank Bookman an “awful lot” for pointing out this nasty old capitalistic notion that some people have.
Georgia
December 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
I overheard soccor moms at public bragging about how they never shop at walmart. But not because of corporate policy. No. It’s because they’re snobs who refuse to rub elbows with the demographic.
Tom Middleton
December 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
DDR
I’m starting my counting from today, and I’m bowing to you in utter respect for what you’ve done! (But now where am I going to get my “Faded Glory” crap? LOL)
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:23 pm
getalife:
“He knows the majority wanted out of Afghanistan so he set the date”
“You know we usually keep troops there after a war”
Make up your mind !
indigo
December 6th, 2012
3:24 pm
Brosephus – 2:52
You might want to reconsider after reading this.
http://businessheroes.net/business/sociopathic-success/
Matti
December 6th, 2012
3:25 pm
“We want 4G phones, and the latest video games, and 10 pairs of socks for a buck.”
Not all of us. Many people realize that owning the latest greatest gadget does not — despite the long lines and anticipation — equate to happiness after all, especially since they’re SOOO last year by the time you get them home. Some knew it all along; others learned in time.
Experience taught me that buying “affordable” (cheap garbage) for my kids’ rooms mean that I’d be in there with screwdrivers, duct tape, and glue within six months, trying to fix what’s falling apart, and toss the stuff in the trash in a year or two. Low prices for low quality is the business model. It’s all disposable, so you’ll be back to buy more.
Meanwhile, regular Americans are having a garage sale somewhere nearby, or selling a dear departed loved one’s fine furnishings. A good picker can find good stuff at a good price (cash only, no cc debt!), and fix it up with some sandpaper and a coat of paint. I’d rather have an old treasure than a new piece of junk.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:28 pm
“Obama claimed “diplomacy” will solve the Iran nuclear problem”
“A key part of candidate Obama’s 2008 speech was a discussion of how his tough diplomacy would solve the problem of Iran’s illicit nuclear program.”
http://www.rpc.senate.gov/policy-papers/president-obama-versus-candidate-obama-on-the-middle-east
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:29 pm
Let’s not rewrite history.
Obama supported them. McCain supported them. Bush supported them, (AND signed it).
If you wanna tell the story, it’s only fair to mention ALL the main characters…
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
3:32 pm
0311 — “Obama claimed “diplomacy” will solve the Iran nuclear problem”
And after one Obama term, Iran still doesn’t have the bomb.
What happened in the first Bush term? North Korea GOT the bomb.
Conclusion: Obama > Bush.
Union
December 6th, 2012
3:33 pm
what an odd country we have become…
thankfully people like martin luther king and others throughout history have not shared the sentiments of so many that post on this blog.. we would be nowhere.. we are quickly becoming a blameless society..
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:34 pm
YAWN !
josef
December 6th, 2012
3:34 pm
JAY
Another good column. It is long since time we here in the good ole imperialist US of A face up to the cold blooded reality that all that “stuff,” just as with generations before, comes at the sweat and blood of a servile class with few, if any rights, somewhere. But, as always, out of sight and out of mind. We can blame Wal Mart et al all we want to and it will make us feel ever so good. But, bottom line, we buy the stuff. Until we stop that, they’ll find a way around it. It’s East Asia and the Subcontinent now. It’ll be Africa when the revolution of rising expectation there cut into the profit margin and they have to start passing the cost on to us consumers,
Someone up above remarked, to the effect that s/he didn’t even know they made Levis in Egypt…why not? Basically because (the impersonal) you don’t give a sh*t so long as there’s “stuff” you can afford.
This tragedy brings it into focus. But just how long will that focus last and just what will we do about it?
Wait a minute
December 6th, 2012
3:37 pm
If you don’t like how Wal-Mart operates (and much of the world’s garment industry operates in this type of environment or even worse), then simply do not shop there.
All shareholders of Wal-Mart will suffer as a result of the drop in stock price (it won’t hurt a Walton to be worth $20 B instead of $26B), a few fund managers might lose their jobs, I’ll take a hit as I’m sure most mutual funds own some Wal-Mart, etc. (every large stock index fund would). It is the stock market and consumers that reward Wal-Mart for their business model, if you don’t care to support it, don’t.
Freedom of choice is such a wonderful thing.
Terrible what happened to the people. Look at the label and if it says “Made In Bangladesh”, then consider not buying it.
Of course, sweatshops exist in Manhattan and downtown Los Angeles as well.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:38 pm
Union:
Since you mentioned Dr. King …………
“The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when women will start using the telephone for constructive purposes and not to spread malicious gossip and false rumors on their neighbors.”
“The acceptable year of the Lord is that year when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess the name of Jesus. And everywhere men will cry out, “Hallelujah, hallelujah! The kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever. Hallelujah, hallelujah!” Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. – June 5th, 1966
Just sayin’ ……………
RB from Gwinnett
December 6th, 2012
3:38 pm
The solution here is very simple, Jay. You and your fellow haters should start buying all your “walmart” type items from Democrat owned retailers who pay all their employees a “living” wage, provide healtcare to all of them, and whose CEO/owner only makes 2.5 times the wages of the labor force. Surely there should be countless options since half the voters voted Democrat and ya’ll claim to be all for all this stuff, right?
Hey, how about posting the names of all these companies here for us to help everybody with their shopping choices. Thanks.
The other half of your brain.
December 6th, 2012
3:39 pm
getalife
December 6th, 2012
1:19 pm
I heard a politician say we need to do something about Wal Mart and now I know why.
This is how regulations are added.
GetaClue, Wasn’t it you a year or so ago who claimed that you get your meds at Walmart?
If you and others don’t like Walmart, don’t shop there, obviously you except their business practices or you wouldn’t go there.
Are you smoking dope again? as the dope article seems inportant to you.
The other half of your brain.
December 6th, 2012
3:40 pm
RB, I loved it.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
3:41 pm
Senator Reid owned mitt.
The banks, AIG, Fan/Fred and many other corporations would not be alive today without socialism.
At some point, there has to be pain because we bailed them out.
That Black Guy
December 6th, 2012
3:42 pm
“off-topic comments from the left”
Make that “off-topic comments from the right”
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
3:42 pm
Anybody doubting the vicious class war being waged by capital over labor rights, just witness what is happening in Michigan.
Koch Brothers’ Americans for Prosperity are leading the charge for Snyder’s “Right to Work for sh$t” bill
http://www.freep.com/article/20121206/BUSINESS06/121206066/Koch-Brothers-Americans-Prosperity-leading-charge-Snyder-s-Right-Work-bill
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
3:42 pm
0311 — “YAWN !”
Your surrender and concession are noted and appreciated.
Thulsa Doom
December 6th, 2012
3:43 pm
Aaaaah. The blame America first crowd busy at work. How is it a U.S. companies fault what goes on in a foreign nation’s mfg plants? Jeez that is dumb.
If we want safer worker conditions then that’s for the Pakistanti and Bangladeshi govts to regulate and enforce. On top of us having a nanny state here you want U.S. companies to nanny foreign nations???
And its also the responsibility of those foreign companies to provide a safe working environment for their employees. How in the hell is it the responsibility of someone 6,000 or so miles away in Bentonville, Arkansas. Geez this is stupid.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
3:43 pm
indigo
I understand your point, so I’ll try to re-state mine.
If America is supposed to be “THE” example of capitalism and all that’s good about it, should we not try to teach others how to do things the right way as we do them? This country has already gone through the struggles of labor and safety. Why would we not teach others based upon the mistakes and growing pains we’ve already endured if we’re supposed to be the “world leader”?
My point is that the stuff about American Exceptionalism is pure bullsh*t. The only thing exceptional about us is the way we manipulate others in order to get what we want. THAT ties directly into your link, and I agree with you 100% on the point you’re making.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
3:44 pm
Yes, I get my meds at Walmart.
So?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:44 pm
Mama:
And you are that naive to think the Iran situation has been solved ?
Geez !
Adam
December 6th, 2012
3:45 pm
In other news:
“A move to embarrass Democrats backfired on Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell Thursday as the Kentucky Republican proposed a vote on raising the nation’s debt ceiling — then filibustered it when the Democrats tried to take him up on the offer.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/debt-ceiling-mitch-mcconnell_n_2251515.html
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:46 pm
OWN IT OBAMA ! “UNEMPLOYMENT BACK ABOVE 8%”
TaxPayer
December 6th, 2012
3:46 pm
I’m sure WalMart and others would be more than happy to hire the pre-teen children and grandchildren of our fellow Republicans to work right here in the US of A once the Republicans get rid of all those nasty regulations standing in their way.
Doggone/GA
December 6th, 2012
3:47 pm
The “urban myth” of Henry Ford raising some of his workers pay:
http://corporate.ford.com/news-center/press-releases-detail/677-5-dollar-a-day
getalife
December 6th, 2012
3:47 pm
scout,
Pitiful.
JohnnyReb
December 6th, 2012
3:48 pm
What’s the next campaign, Jay? How about complete Socialization where the government runs everythng. Oh I forgot, that does not work so well either, i.e. USSR, etc. But the Moonbat mind thinks if “they” run it the outcome will be different. rrriiiggghhhttt.
Obviously, your goal is to demonize people of opposite political views, especially if they are wealthy. Your piece is very inflammatory and unnecessary. In case you have not noticed, you have a bunch of soft-mellon followers who eat up what you write. You have a responsibility ignored in this case. This has to be your worst work.
TaxPayer
December 6th, 2012
3:48 pm
I do my part by not buying any WalMart stock.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
3:48 pm
getalife:
“He knows the majority wanted out of Afghanistan so he set the date”
“You know we usually keep troops there after a war”
Make up your mind !
PITIFUL !
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
3:48 pm
Adam
I wonder if his thoughts sounded like this….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6GuEswXOXo&NR=1
getalife
December 6th, 2012
3:50 pm
scout,
We want lower unemployment.
You are out of the majority.
Way out.
indigo
December 6th, 2012
3:50 pm
Brosephus – 3:43 “we try to teach others”
If I understand you correctly, you’re saying we should instruct other countries in the proper way a capitalist country and government should function, not the sociopathic way we actually do things.
If this is correct, who will do the teaching? Surely not our Big Business leaders. And, peoples of these countries not being stupid, it won’t take them long to see we’re saying “do as we say, not as we do”.
I think this would do more harm than good.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:51 pm
Mark in Midtown: Sam Walton was willing to invest and open stores in the poorer more rural parts of the country where other retailers thougt the people were too stupid and poor to ever make money off of. Walton did not have the contempt for these such rural people as the othe major retailers did. Walton proved that there was money to be made by serving this market, a market which the other supposedly *more caring* retailers ceded to him. As well, Walton invested in state-of-the art technolody and was able to create a distribution system far more advanced and efficient than the retailers from the *smarter* parts of the country. In a nutshell, Wal-Mart became what it became for 2 primary reasons. It had faith enough in the poorer rural parts of the country to invest in such places
Curious: Wal-Mart’s success is due to that dastardly 47% of moochers.
Yep – you’re both correct!! So the Waltons got rich from catering to the “everyday man”. Because, let’s face it, IF they shop for themselves, rich people invariably aren’t OFTEN seen at Walmart.
Tom M. : I’m starting my counting from today, and I’m bowing to you in utter respect for what you’ve done! (But now where am I going to get my “Faded Glory” crap? LOL)
Hiya Tom!! You could probably get your stuff direct from the “manufacturer”; OR you can go to Thrift stores.
PS: I know I’m taking your question WAY too seriously, but it was a really good question!!
getalife
December 6th, 2012
3:52 pm
scout,
I am pretty sure we will leave a base like after all wars.
Happy?
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
3:53 pm
indigo
I was being a bit sarcastic in that we’re the model for which the rest of the world should follow.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
3:55 pm
0311 — “Mama: And you are that naive to think the Iran situation has been solved ?”
And did I *say* that it had been?
“Geez !”
Indeed! You sure do make an awful lot of bad guesses!
Long story short, though, Obama’s done a better job at keeping the bomb out of the hands of our enemies than Bush ever did. So thanks for conceding the point!
Oscar
December 6th, 2012
3:56 pm
Note: Please mark sarcasm. Too hard to pick up on a comment board.
Union
December 6th, 2012
3:56 pm
@ debbie… i must admit.. i have hit the thrift stores a few times.. some of the jeans and jackets i have purchased have been hardly worn or practically new.. although i did have a woman make a comment that i should not have been shopping there as i was putting my purchases in the car..
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
3:57 pm
J. Reb — “Obviously, your goal is to demonize people of opposite political views”
“In case you have not noticed, you have a bunch of soft-mellon followers who eat up what you write.”
Assertion + Demonstration = Embarrassment
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
4:00 pm
DDR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbQRZs5sX8
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
4:01 pm
Please mark sarcasm. Too hard to pick up on a comment board.
My bad… I’m usually good about truth in labeling.
That Black Guy
December 6th, 2012
4:02 pm
“rich people invariably aren’t OFTEN seen at Walmart.”
You would be surprised.
There are a LOT of people who are rich that don’t show their wealth. They also shop at Walmart, thrift stores and buy used cars.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
4:02 pm
Welcome — read your link about the Kochs. What i find so amazing about them is their history. Few people know, or care it seems, that their father made his money from and spent a great bit of time in the Soviet Union; and his sons did too.
It seems to me, with all of the Koch’s anti–American sentiments, that no one has ever questioned them about where their loyalties lies.
I guess it’s the godlen rule working overtime again.
He who has the gold, makes the rules.
PS: The article — i think that every GOP stronghold state in America has those “Right To Work” laws; spearheaded by a Koch “employee” in one form or another.
When people don’t vote, this ^^^^ is what they get. My only joy is in knowing that I won’t be leaving any children of my own to live through this mess that some of the older generation has made.
Thulsa Doom
December 6th, 2012
4:02 pm
Its Walmark’s fault!
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
4:05 pm
There are a LOT of people who are rich that don’t show their wealth. They also shop at Walmart, thrift stores and buy used cars.
Uh huh. I wonder if ANY of the Waltons shop at their own stores?
Probably not.
Class of '98
December 6th, 2012
4:06 pm
Jay, if the Bangladeshi people who work in that factory could find better jobs elsewhere, why would they continue working there? Answer: it is the best job they can find.
I suppose if Wal-Mart stopped doing business with the Bangladeshi factories, the lives of the people who have jobs in those factories would improve? Yeah, I’m not sure how that works.
Typical liberal thought process. “FIRE BAD!!!”. Instead of thanking Wal-Mart for providing these people a with a job, the executives must be demonized.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
4:07 pm
Scout
Your comments earlier regarding Vietnam, Iraq and Afganistan surely have merit, but that absolves Walmart and their supplier in regards to this issue exactly how?
josef
December 6th, 2012
4:08 pm
BLACK GUY
There are wealthy people and there are bourgeois wannabes. Wealthy people aren’t trying to prove anything. Wannabes are.
I remember several years ago going over to see a bud of mine who was, as he would say, “doing all right.” He had just got back from Goodwill with a haul of Izods and was busily removing the alligators! He didn’t want to be mistaken for an upstart!
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
4:09 pm
Scout
And no I do not shop at Walmart.
And yes they lobby and support both parties with huge amounts of money.
Thulsa Doom
December 6th, 2012
4:10 pm
Clearly Walmark has clearly failed in its mission statement of regulating foreign companies and nations. kd
Cosby
December 6th, 2012
4:11 pm
Ahh…the class warefare continues…gee Jay, lets take 75% of your gross salary and help those people!!!!
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
4:12 pm
Union — I LOVE Thrift stores too!! You can find the best stuff there sometimes! I had a 70’s party a few weeks back (for Dudley’s B-Day — I was hinting that he was OLD….); and i found a dashiki and a this GREAT pair of bell bottoms that had these stripes on them.
I also found a pair of those “black power” earrings and those big old “Peace” sign earrings and a Monkees album (vinyl).
SoCoBro – Thanks for the “hats off”!
Orange12
December 6th, 2012
4:13 pm
BREAKING NEWS!!!
http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/06/now-senate-majority-leaders-wants-to-bring-food-to-the-senate-screening-of-steven-spielbergs-movie-lincoln-do-we-have-to-pay-for-that-too/
Now this is really important.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
4:13 pm
Classless
Because someone can’t find a better job it is ok for Walmart and their supplier to hedge bets with their lives?
Is that what you are saying?
Apologize if I am misinterpreting your post.
Adam
December 6th, 2012
4:13 pm
Scout: The unemployment report for November’s numbers isn’t out yet.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
4:16 pm
Adam – it is in Scout’s world……………
Thulsa Doom
December 6th, 2012
4:17 pm
“There are a LOT of people who are rich that don’t show their wealth. They also shop at Walmart, thrift stores and buy used cars.’
In my broker days my boss gave me a profile to read of what the average millionaire looked like. And it wasn’t the young guy in the flashy suit driving a new BMW who was struggling to make his payments every month. The average millionaire was a guy in his mid 50s who wore polyester pants, his home was paid for, he drove an older model American car like an oldsmobile, and yes- he did shop at the local Walmart and was frugal with his money. You would be shocked at the people who have money and at the people who you think have money who are living paycheck to paycheck.
Thulsa Doom
December 6th, 2012
4:19 pm
“Because someone can’t find a better job it is ok for Walmart and their supplier to hedge bets with their lives?”
They both suck,
How is it Walmart’s job to regulate worker safety in foreign nations?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
4:20 pm
C 98 — “Yeah, I’m not sure how that works.”
It doesn’t work at all, but that’s because you’ve put up a pretty stupid binary choice and represented the situation as being manifestly identical to that selfsame stupid binary choice. Wal-Mart could just as easily have pressed the producers to implement better safety procedures and systems in their production facilities, but that doesn’t even seem to figure in your construction.
“Typical liberal thought process. “FIRE BAD!!!”. Instead of thanking Wal-Mart for providing these people a with a job, the executives must be demonized.”
Years ago, when I was in grad school and teaching at the college level, I’d occasionally get students like you; they’d object to grades of “C” and below by saying something like ‘but I stayed up an entire weekend working on that paper’ or ‘but I put so much work into that.’ as if they were somehow supposed to be graded on effort alone and not the QUALITY of the work they turned in.
Their papers, just like Wal-Mart’s jobs, were barely sufficient to meet requirements. Now, maybe that’s impressive to you and worth some kind of slap on the back, but I had higher standards for my students — and I think employees should expect higher standards from their employees as well. Maybe you’d thank an employer for putting you to work on the 16th floor of a firetrap building with no fire escape, but I certainly wouldn’t.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
4:22 pm
Typical liberal thought process. “FIRE BAD!!!”. Instead of thanking Wal-Mart for providing these people a with a job, the executives must be demonized.
OMG I don’t know whether to laugh at your sarcastic wit, or cry at your craziness!!
I hope you’re being sarcastic and witty; ’cause if its the other then the end is really nearer than we think,
“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.” ― Thomas Jefferson
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
4:23 pm
Doom — “How is it Walmart’s job to regulate worker safety in foreign nations?”
Same way food producers monitor production at their overseas producers. Foreign ag producers have to meet USDA standards and importers are obliged to monitor for compliance.
Nothing stopping Walmart or any other retailer from monitoring conditions at producer facilities overseas. Apple does it — a poor job of it, true, but they do it.
JamVet
December 6th, 2012
4:25 pm
If not for the two organizations that Republicans hate more than anyone, and who are the only two groups left that protect American workers and their families – the federal government and labor unions – this terrible disaster would be seen much more often in this country.
Word.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
4:26 pm
Thulsa
Knew a guy who worked at the largest employer just south of downtown. He probably never made more than 70K during his 30 yrs there and wore the gawdiest clothes.
He and his brother were big into commercial real estate and he made numerous millions as his side gig.
When I first meet him when I was in my early 20s, he drove a Chevy Luv.
When he retired he came back as a contractor. When company hit hard times and they laid off all contractors, he got mad as of he didn’t have a penny to his name…
He would chuckle at the young engineers and finance folks driving high priced cars and living in apartments in Midtown and Buckhead
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
4:27 pm
Leaving for now — see you guys later.
Union
December 6th, 2012
4:27 pm
@ Joe Hussein Mama
funny.. if you were grading papers these days.. all the students would be getting c’s.. wouldnt be fair that some students were more skilled than others… and we surely cannot have any fail.. so you would just need to redistribute the grades to the ones that were less fortunate..
pogo
December 6th, 2012
4:28 pm
A piece I agree with Jay. But remember, The Walton’s contributed over a million dollars to Obama in the campaign. They want something from him for their money and they will get it.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
4:28 pm
Union — “@ Joe Hussein Mama funny.. if you were grading papers these days.. all the students would be getting c’s.. wouldnt be fair that some students were more skilled than others… and we surely cannot have any fail.. so you would just need to redistribute the grades to the ones that were less fortunate..”
Well, I can see that *you* wouldn’t be getting a passing grade if you turned in prattle like that.
Union
December 6th, 2012
4:30 pm
@ Joe Hussein Mama – nice side step..
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
4:31 pm
Union — “@ Joe Hussein Mama – nice side step..”
Nice fabrication.
I don’t really need you to tell me what kinds of grades I’d be giving because quite frankly, you don’t have the first effing clue.
That Black Guy
December 6th, 2012
4:33 pm
DebbieDoRight — The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists…
December 6th, 2012
4:05 pm
There are a LOT of people who are rich that don’t show their wealth. They also shop at Walmart, thrift stores and buy used cars.
Uh huh. I wonder if ANY of the Waltons shop at their own stores?
Probably not.
_________________________________________________
Now, I seriously doubt they do.
BTW, have you completed the next installment of your steamy romance about Cheney, Rove, and Romney.
I actually had a headache from laughing so hard after reading that.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
4:35 pm
Thulsa
It is called risk assessment. I’m sure you are familiar with the term.
All major companies do it for all facets of their business and make decisions accordingly.
No different if you are building a house and your contractor’s sub messes up….. Your throat to choke is the general contractor or maybe both, but you wouldn’t not let the general off the hook. Smart folks wouldn’t.
If you are good with it, it speaks more about you than me.
They reap the rewards form their business prowess and should be ready to reap the bad when it occurs
I live my life on a two way street.
You?
Union
December 6th, 2012
4:36 pm
@ Joe Hussein Mama – nice.. the maturity level is coming out..
Tom Middleton
December 6th, 2012
4:40 pm
DDR@3:51
THANK YOU! Believe it or not, you took the question right. I was never a real hippie because I always had a job, but part of me – the creative part – still lives in the 60s. I loves me some Faded Glory.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
4:40 pm
Union — “@ Joe Hussein Mama – nice.. the maturity level is coming out..”
Yes, it certainly did when you started running with that old conservative e-mail saw about redistribution of grades.
Look, it wasn’t funny 20 years ago (the first time I heard it) and it isn’t any more funny today. So if that’s the sum total of your pertinent contribution to the discussion, then just spare me, okay? People who pass that kind of junk around and go HURR-HURR over it are, IMO, unlikely to have ever darkened a college classroom door in the first place. Either that, or they gave it a try and couldn’t hack it.
I can assure you, I failed my fair share of students when I was a college instructor, and I doubt much has changed in the last 25+ years.
That Black Guy
December 6th, 2012
4:40 pm
josef
December 6th, 2012
4:08 pm
BLACK GUY
There are wealthy people and there are bourgeois wannabes. Wealthy people aren’t trying to prove anything. Wannabes are.
_________________________________
That is soooo true josef. I know one guy who owns a fairly large trucking company. He has 2 vehicles.
a 2006 Tahoe for when he and the wife go out and a 97 Chevy pick up (that he bought used).
I know people who are living check to check with houses bigger than his.
BTW, Hi everybody.
josef
December 6th, 2012
4:40 pm
JHM
“Well, I can see that *you* wouldn’t be getting a passing grade if you turned in prattle like that.”
Be careful. You never know when OREP is here. He might return your essays with a less-than-favorable evaluation of your own use of the English language. :=)
Union
December 6th, 2012
4:46 pm
Joe Hussein Mama – “Look, it wasn’t funny 20 years ago (the first time I heard it) and it isn’t any more funny today.”
who said anything about funny? you seem to be getting a little irritated with this line of discussion.. sorry if it hits home.
They BOTH suck
December 6th, 2012
4:48 pm
Josef
OREP gave up on my post along time ago.
He figured he would attempt to make progress were it was attainable.
RB from Gwinnett
December 6th, 2012
4:51 pm
“Hey, how about posting the names of all these companies here for us to help everybody with their shopping choices. Thanks.”
Bueller… Bueller…
I don’t understand, libs. Is it that democrats don’t own/run any businesses or are they not the benevolent saviors of the American worker you pretend they are?
josef
December 6th, 2012
4:51 pm
BOTH
I don’t mess with OREP…!
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
4:53 pm
Union — “who said anything about funny?”
Oh, so are you saying you were SERIOUS when you posted this?
@ Joe Hussein Mama funny.. if you were grading papers these days.. all the students would be getting c’s.. wouldnt be fair that some students were more skilled than others… and we surely cannot have any fail.. so you would just need to redistribute the grades to the ones that were less fortunate..
If you posted it to be funny, don’t worry. It wasn’t funny at all.
OTOH, if you were *serious* when you posted it, then I’m *certain* you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.
“you seem to be getting a little irritated with this line of discussion..”
Yes, I am. The damnfool conservative notion that grades are or should be, under a liberal mindset, something fungible and somehow *shareable* is, IMO, absolutely ludicrous.
“sorry if it hits home.”
It doesn’t hit home at all. It just clarifies to me that you haven’t got a clue in your head about college grades. Otherwise, I don’t think you’d have posted something so patently foolish.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
December 6th, 2012
4:54 pm
Regarding the question about made-in-America (MIA) jeans, you can find the answer here: http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/jeans.htm
To summarize, Levi’s are no longer MIA. The last Levi’s plant was in Blue Ridge (GA) and closed just a few years ago, moving to Mexico. Wrangler makes jeans in the USA and everywhere else, too. The link lists several dozen brands (mostly designer stuff, but some work clothes) that are still MIA.
Dekalb Comments
December 6th, 2012
4:55 pm
Re: RB from Gwinnett
Costco for starters. They pay, on average, nearly double what Walmart pays their employees. They provide benefits and contribute to a 401K plan. Employee turn-over is significantly less than at Walmart.
We know historically that Walmart employees are one of the largest affiliated group of EMPLOYED AMERICANS that have to rely on the social safety net including food assistance, MEDICAID, etc. because of the deplorable wages and benefits offered to the average worker at a Walmart store.
That is only with respect to their store employees here in the U.S. I can’t speak to their oversight practices regarding the manufacturers and suppliers of their goods.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
December 6th, 2012
5:00 pm
Costco’s CEO: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/costcos-ceo-becomes-a-progressive-hero-internet-meme/6894
Lynnie Gal
December 6th, 2012
5:00 pm
This shows that we really need consumer boycotts of these retailers and demand that they provide safe working conditions for those who make the clothes they sell. I’m not buying any clothing again from those retailers–Gap, Target, Walmart, JC Penny. Save Lives! Don’t buy clothes from these guys!
RB from Gwinnett
December 6th, 2012
5:03 pm
Dekalb, “because of the deplorable wages and benefits offered to the average worker at a Walmart store. ”
How about telling us what those wages are and what the benefits look like. I’d prefer dealing in actual numbers.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
5:04 pm
Our President met with a middle class family today at their house.
Union
December 6th, 2012
5:09 pm
Joe Hussein Mama – foolish?.. this whole post is foolish.. we are blaming a company for buying a product from a manufacture that failed to implement appropriate safety standards for employees.. simply because the major shareholders are “rich”
maybe ford, gm and other us car makers should implement tighter security to protect the workers in mexico as they are in danger of getting whacked by a drug cartel.. they know about it as you cannot pick up a paper and not read about it. lets boycott those guys. youre correct though jhm.. its all foolish
bob
December 6th, 2012
5:11 pm
” Wal-Mart in fact had technically ended its relationship with the Bangladesh factory where the most recent fire occurred, but the company also now acknowledges that Walmart goods were still being produced there because a supplier had “subcontracted work to this factory without authorization and in direct violation of our policies.” ” ! So why are you bashing walmart if they have ended its relationship ? Maybe you should have put up names and pics of the execs at the GAP instead of bashing the group you tell us are not doing biz with this factory. This just shows the contempt you have for the Waltons.
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
5:14 pm
The chemical weapons story was initially broken on Sunday by the New York Times in a front-page article co-authored by David Sanger, the Times’ chief Washington correspondent, and Eric Schmitt, its national security correspondent. Writing that “what exactly the Syrian forces intend to do with the weapons remains murky,” the Times correspondents cited as their source unnamed “officials who have seen the intelligence from Syria.”
Syria’s Foreign Ministry categorically denied that the country’s military is preparing to use chemical weapons. A statement released in Damascus said that Syria “would not use chemical weapons—if there are any—against its own people under any circumstances.”
What is particularly significant in the statements of Obama and other US officials is the absence of any expression of concern over the Syrian military’s chemical weapons stockpile falling into the hands of the so-called rebels whom Washington is supporting.
It has become impossible to conceal the fact that the main fighting force challenging the Assad regime is dominated by Islamist militias, including forces tied to Al Qaeda, who would be prepared to use such weapons against civilian populations in Western Europe or the United States. That this is a matter of official indifference only underscores the glaring contradiction between the official expressions of concern and the real motives underlying the US intervention.
The leaks about chemical weapons were made on the eve of a NATO foreign ministers meeting in Brussels on Tuesday and Wednesday. The meeting will decide on Turkey’s request for the deployment of Patriot surface-to-air missile batteries on the country’s 560-mile border with Syria.
I believe what I’m told. I never ask questions.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 6th, 2012
5:14 pm
Union — “Joe Hussein Mama – foolish?.. this whole post is foolish.. we are blaming a company for buying a product from a manufacture that failed to implement appropriate safety standards for employees.. simply because the major shareholders are “rich”
1) Your argument doesn’t hold water in view of agricultural imports. Read up on the USDA’s APHIS program. There’s no reason something similar couldn’t be done for other classes of imported goods.
2) Your pivot back to the main topic is noted, but does not dismiss my previous criticism of you in re your comments about grades.
“maybe ford, gm and other us car makers should implement tighter security to protect the workers in mexico as they are in danger of getting whacked by a drug cartel.. they know about it as you cannot pick up a paper and not read about it. lets boycott those guys. youre correct though jhm.. its all foolish”
Not all of it. Just you, when it comes to grades.
fedup
December 6th, 2012
5:16 pm
STUPID LIBERAL Apple does not fall to far from the tree. My appology to your mama but you walked right into it.
Soothsayer
December 6th, 2012
5:22 pm
What many of you do not realize is that we are literally standing in the threshold of World War III. Syria is different from Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, & Libya. The Russians and likely the Chinese are not going to stand by idly and let Washington’s and Tel Aviv’s hegemony and imperialist ambitions continue.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
5:27 pm
RB from Gwinnett “How about telling us what those wages are and what the benefits look like. I’d prefer dealing in actual numbers.”
Average hourly rate at Wal-Mart: $8.81 p/hour, average yearly salary $15,500, just $370 above the poverty level for family of 2.
Doggone/GA
December 6th, 2012
5:28 pm
“What many of you do not realize is that we are literally standing in the threshold of World War III”
Well, I’ve been living with that threat since I was born. The players change, the threat doesn’t. And you know what? If there is a third World War…we’ll deal with it when it comes, but in the meantime we’ll try to prevent it. We really will.
Logical Dude
December 6th, 2012
5:30 pm
RB: Let me google that for you
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=costco+wage+vs+walmart+wage