An old conflict between bottom line and human lives
Friends and relatives gather at a burial site for some of the 112 victims of a fire at a Bangladesh garment factory. (AP)
A little over a hundred years ago, a fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in New York killed 146 workers. Many of the victims had tried to flee but were prevented from doing so by exits that had been locked by management. Scores of people died as they fell or jumped from windows to escape the flames, plummeting to the ground from the 10-story building.
The tragedy proved to be an important turning point, helping to lead to passage of tougher workplace safety and fire laws, as well as creation of labor unions in the garment industry. (As someone who covered the 1980 MGM Grand fire in Las Vegas that killed 85, and who witnessed the adoption of much tighter fire-safety rules as a result, I know how that dynamic works. Even after the MGM tragedy, Nevada’s powerful casino industry resisted fire-code changes as too expensive, changing its tune only after a second fire a few months later, this one at the Las Vegas Hilton, killed eight people.)
Now, a century after the Triangle factory fire, an all-too-similar scenario is playing out on the other side of the globe. On Nov. 25, 112 garment workers died in a fire in a high-rise factory in Bangladesh that had little or no fire-protection measures. In September, two similar fires in garment factories in Pakistan had killed almost 300 people.
It is not, in other words, a new problem. As Bloomberg reports, Wal-Mart, Gap and other companies that rely on such factories have been well aware of the dangers they represent. Wal-Mart in fact had technically ended its relationship with the Bangladesh factory where the most recent fire occurred, but the company also now acknowledges that Walmart goods were still being produced there because a supplier had “subcontracted work to this factory without authorization and in direct violation of our policies.”
Overall, however, the companies have been reluctant to help pay for necessary safety upgrades:
At a meeting convened in 2011 to boost safety at Bangladesh garment factories, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. made a call: paying suppliers more to help them upgrade their manufacturing facilities was too costly.
The comments from a Wal-Mart sourcing director appear in minutes of the meeting, which was attended by more than a dozen retailers including Gap Inc. (GPS), Target Corp. and JC Penney Co…
“Specifically to the issue of any corrections on electrical and fire safety, we are talking about 4,500 factories, and in most cases very extensive and costly modifications would need to be undertaken to some factories,” they said in the document. “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
But hey, at least it’s cheaper to do business under those conditions, right? Fewer of those pesky government regulations and inspectors to cause trouble? Paying a few pennies more per clothing item just to save a few hundred lives … “It is not financially feasible for the brands to make such investments.”
From the Forbes listing of the 400 richest Americans
– Jay Bookman
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455 comments Add your comment
Morality?
December 6th, 2012
1:40 pm
Brosephus – Well there’s somebody that puts their money where their mouth is but there are millions of Obama voters out there with moral outrage for Wal-Mart but shop there because they are not willing to sacrifice anything themselves – like convenience or price. Got no problem with Wal-Mart myself…… good lots of cheap Chinese junk – guaranteed to last until you get it out the door.
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
1:40 pm
I don’t like Wal Mart, and I don’t shop there. I usually go to either Mom/Pop stores or I go to chains that franchise out, like Ace Hardware. I try to keep my money local.
me too …is it “think globally act locally”….er is it “think globally, drink locally”?..I always get that confused
Morality?
December 6th, 2012
1:43 pm
If Wal-Mart was owned by Bill Gates or the Oracle of Omaha – doubt Jay would be critical of them – but heh Wal-Mart “donates” to BOTH parties.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
1:43 pm
I think globalization requires global regulations for the workers to save lives.
Perhaps a one billion dollar fine per death to be paid to the families would stop it and move these jobs back to America.
stands for decibels
December 6th, 2012
1:44 pm
You folks do realize that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act probably wouldn’t have been passed without Wal*Mart’s support, yes?
I point this out not to praise this company, but to recognize that it is not going anywhere; rather than dreaming of a mass consumer uprising, we’d be better off shaming companies publicly and forcing their hands into making policy/procurement changes. People like Jay play a role. you can too.
As for personal shopping decisions, I would ask that folks not only shop locally (always a good idea if you can manage it) but try to patronize outfits that promote fair trade. Here’s one excellent resource for gift shopping (they have two retail outlets in the ATL metro area. Here’s another.
Morality?
December 6th, 2012
1:45 pm
Have a Merry Christmas all…… gots to go milk the cow.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
1:47 pm
nero,
You were warned.
Red card.
cranky old man
December 6th, 2012
1:48 pm
“…a supplier had ‘subcontracted work to this factory without authorization and in direct violation of our policies.’”
Ah, plausible deniability. Ain’t it grand? I used to work retail years ago, and I can tell you that’s how they operate. If they actually followed their own official WRITTEN rules and guidelines, then they would be meeting or exceeding all safety and labor laws. Anywhere their instructions are recorded, written, emailed, or in some form that can be subpoenaed, they demand the laws be followed. But then they set productivity goals for their managers that are impossible to meet without breaking them. Or, more precisely, they set goals that are just barely possible to meet, assuming absolutely nothing goes wrong. Failure to meet goals due to power outages, trucks delayed in traffic, employees out with the flu, weather problems, etc. are not excused, and the managers’ bonuses, promotions, and continued employment are put in jeopardy. And any manager that authorizes overtime to catch up will very shortly be unemployed. So they play games with the time clocks, pushing extra hours to the next paycheck, where it won’t be time-and-a-half. Or they pressure employees to stay late off the clock, or to skip their breaks, etc.
Pizzaman
December 6th, 2012
1:48 pm
“Don’t talk to me about morality I’m a business man”. Frank Lorenzo 1989. The Waltons, and other big retailers, are taking this one to heart!
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
1:48 pm
Morality?
I spent 10 years in retail before going into the public sector. If there’s one thing I look for, it is quality over price. I will gladly pay a bit more for American goods as opposed to buying cheap Chinese sh*t as I know the durable goods will be a better investment over the long term.
————————-
EC
I tend to drink globally… There’s the Russian vodka, the German/Belgian beer, Pisco from Peru, Cachaça from Brazil, etc…
Native Atlantan
December 6th, 2012
1:48 pm
As long as Americans want low prices, this type of tragedy will continue. If the retailers demanded minimum safety standards the factory owners would charge more and prices to consumers would increase. How much they would increase is debatable but as long we we demand low prices and support these retailers, this will continue. If we’re willing to pay more, problem solved….unless the company heads are so greedy they tell us the factories are up to standard, pocket the price increase as profit and laugh all the way to the bank. Really simple stuff and I think this issue tends to get filed under the “Corporate Stewardship” section of the round file.
stands for decibels
December 6th, 2012
1:50 pm
Mis-wrote @ 1.44–there are actually THREE retail outlets for Ten Thousand Villages, in Metro ATL. (Pleasantly surprised to learn.)
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
1:54 pm
dB
Thanks for the coffee link…
Regnad Kcin
December 6th, 2012
1:56 pm
Enter your comments here
Regnad Kcin
December 6th, 2012
1:58 pm
Morality – why do you feel it is your business which gods I thank?
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
December 6th, 2012
2:00 pm
1. labor – cheaper
2. safety regulations – unenforced and/or non-existent
3. health insurance – huh?
4. environment/pollution regulations – you’ve got to be kidding, right?
5. child labor laws – rotflmao
6. graft/corruption – rampant
skipper
December 6th, 2012
2:00 pm
Bro,
Man we don’t make anything much anymore (electronics, clothing.) Did (and I’m just asking) we go overboard with demands on businesses to the point where it just was not feasable? All the textile mills in Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. They are about ALL closed. I know it regs, etc. are not solely to blame, but?????? The easy answer everybody wants to shout is “greed” ; is that the only answer, or is it answer D: all of the above! (Greed, too many demands, etc.) I know its tough in the work force, but folks now don’t expect to work. Many (not all, but many) expect 364 days off per year from vacation and sick days, they know that in many cases they will not be fired whether they are sorry or not…….help me out here; I ain’t sure what the solution is…..and yes, I buy American as much as possible!
ByteMe - Got ilk?
December 6th, 2012
2:01 pm
I don’t blame WalMart or any of the companies.
I blame the Bangladesh government for not protecting their citizens. If they valued their citizens better, we’d have nothing to complain about concerning this issue and WalMart, et al. But they won’t until — like at FoxConn in China — the workers rise up and make it a priority within their government to provide a safe workplace.
N-GA (on the winning side 2 federal elections in a row!)
December 6th, 2012
2:03 pm
Byte – It’s a good thing we have our government watching out for us (sarc)
curious
December 6th, 2012
2:04 pm
At the end of the day it is about the bottom line.
Maximize profits. Heck if slavery were to become legal, there wouldn’t be enough ships to bring slaves in.
Sam
December 6th, 2012
2:04 pm
I heard bush started the fire when he discarded the butt of a cuban in a pile of leaves out front. I also heard him, Cheney, and rove were barricading the doors so no one could escape.
GT
December 6th, 2012
2:04 pm
Cheap labor has damaged the standard of living not only for the labor but for the benefactor of this labor for the history of the world. The economy of the south was artificially enhanced by slave labor; undeserving aristocrats became rich on the back of others and then tried to destroy the rest of the nation when this activity was questioned. Even today the poverty in the south is a direct result of these days of leisure and unearned entitlement of one man over another. Ignorant habits unexplained to an outsider venturing into our insanity can all be explained by smell of cheap labor, the total lack of respect of a fellow human being. To listen to the south now trying to be the champion of the working class or to be critical of the entitlement in this country when they think by sheer birth they are entitled is the sin against nature that sets them behind the rest of our country.
RCH
December 6th, 2012
2:05 pm
More of Jay’s bash the rich moronic dribble.
One post said something about Made in America, Impossible with all the welfare programs NO ONE will work. And for all you globalist, what a job is worth in a foreign country that’s what it is worth here!
appleseed
December 6th, 2012
2:06 pm
It’s not just a matter of wanting cheap prices.With some it’s survival.
The big dog eats the little dog,money talks Bush S walks. You know the sayings and meanings.
We are not all equal.The have’s will exploit the have not’s.You see it here in this country and turn your head,then criticize others for doing the same.All times priorities should be safety,quality,then production.
Ol' Timer
December 6th, 2012
2:06 pm
If they cared as much about viable human beings as they do fetuses, their concerns would be more credible.
If they caared as much about first graders as they do fetuses, it would make more sense.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:07 pm
Jay:
I’d like to see one of your graphs on how many American lives have been lost due to incompetence by government/our elected officials.
You can start with Vietnam (or anywhere else you want) ………… 58,000.
mark in mid-town
December 6th, 2012
2:07 pm
It’s easy for the let to always take shots at Wal-Mart. But how exactly did Wal-Mart become so huge and successful? Well for one thing, Sam Walton was willing to invest and open stores in the poorer more rural parts of the country where other retailers thougt the people were too stupid and poor to ever make money off of. Walton did not have the contempt for these such rural people as the othe major retailers did. Walton proved that there was money to be made by serving this market, a market which the other supposedly *more caring* retailers ceded to him. As well, Walton invested in state-of-the art technolody and was able to create a distribution system far more advanced and efficient than the retailers from the *smarter* parts of the country. In a nutshell, Wal-Mart became what it became for 2 primary reasons. It had faith enough in the poorer rural parts of the country to invest in such places — and it just flat out was far more technologically innovative and visionary than the retailers from the *smarter* parts of the country. Their primary crime was giving poorer people access to decent quality goods at prices they could afford, whereas the other retailers didn’t even both trying to sell to such people as they didn’t think such people were worth their time. That’s the other side of the story, and it’s a far more accurate one than the side the left likes to tell regarding Wal-Mart.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:08 pm
P.S.
Be sure to include things such as “your weapon is made by the lowest bidder”.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
2:08 pm
skipper
I think it’s an “all the above” answer with greed and short term thinking as the primary motivator.
Greed on the part of the consumer who sees superstars buying extravagant sh*t and wanting to live like that themselves and not having the means to do so.
Greed on the part of the investor who expects huge returns on investments to go on forever.
Greed on the part of the businesses who fail to realize that growth is not prepetual or guaranteed.
Short term thinking on the part of politicians who saw “free trade agreements” as a way to feed the greed without thinking of the long term issues that would arise.
I could go on, but, in short, I think we basically brought it on ourselves. Until we get business leaders to realize that they employ their customer base, nothing will change. If you don’t pay your workers enough to afford your goods, you can’t sell your goods.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
2:10 pm
0311
Iraq – 4,000 Severely wounded – 30,000
Travis McGee
December 6th, 2012
2:11 pm
They’re modern Robber Barons, like those of the 19th century, look at human beings as tools of productivity. If a tool breaks, throw it out and get another. In their minds, humans as tools are disposable and totally secondary to the goal of cheap productivity.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
2:11 pm
Mark in mid-town: “Walton proved that there was money to be made by serving this market”
Oh there was money to be made alright. Step back for a moment and think about what you’re saying. You’re saying that enriching yourself by catering to the ever-shrinking purchasing power horizons of less affluent Americans – many of whom themselves are workers whose incomes have shrunk as unionization has declined, largely with the surge of anti-union behemoths like Wal-Mart itself – is a good business model and therefore that we should just accept it as inevitable, and thus admirable in its own way.
Doesn’t that way of thinking strike you as a bit cynical and fatalistic?
clem
December 6th, 2012
2:11 pm
wonder how the waltons feel around christmas time and the playing of “scrooge”?
appleseed
December 6th, 2012
2:14 pm
The story the Left like to tell.Bush S most of walmart customers would be the left.My thoughts.
MANGLER
December 6th, 2012
2:15 pm
mark in mid-town:
Correct, that is how Wal-Mart started and that is how Sam Walton ran it. There was also a time, up till the mid 90s I recall, when Wal-Mart advertised that their products were Made in America. Then Sam passed away. The MIA was relegated so smaller and smaller sections in the stores and eventually that slogan was discontinued completely. That was about the same time the kids expanded the chain from 500 stores to over 5,000 super stores. This (the cheapening of the brand) would not have happened under Sams watch.
You are also correct in that the chain could grow so much so fast due to the American consumers unquenchable thirst for cheaper stuff.
Perhaps having a photo of the person who made your product on the top of each isle or clothing rack would make people rethink their purchase. Do I want the $4 toaster made by the 13 year old girl in China, or the $19 toaster made by the father of 4 in Iowa?
skipper
December 6th, 2012
2:16 pm
@Bro,
Good insight………………very good.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 6th, 2012
2:18 pm
Off topic, I know, but this is too rich,,,what does this guy know about reality anyhow?
http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2012/12/06/glenn-beck-vince-vaughn-peter-billingsley-launch-reality-show/
AngryRedMarsWoman
December 6th, 2012
2:18 pm
I went to the mall a couple of weeks ago to buy new jeans. I rarely buy clothing as I am of a mind to wear what I have for so long as they are in decent condition – so I take care of what I have. Anyway, has anyone here tried to find American-made jeans lately? The Levi’s I liked were made in Eqypt. I didn’t know that they made clothing in Egypt. Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc. etc. And it isn’t as if they are cheap – $50+ for jeans. Even if the labor “over there” is so cheap, what about the cost to get them “over here”? I came home and searched on the Internet for American-made jeans. There actually are some out there, but you must order them online meaning you are not able to walk into a store and try on different styles and sizes to see what fits best – rather than order 6-10 pairs (at $100+ a pair) in order to be able to try them on and then send back the ill-fitting ones for a refund, I am left wearing my old jeans (no idea where they were made as the label has fallen off).
I feel bad for the people “over there” who work in terrible conditions. I would like to see more manufacturing back in the US and I am willing to pay more for American-made – although not having to sail them from “there” to “here” should offset some of that cost. BUT YOU CANNOT FIND ANYTHING MADE IN THE USA!!!!
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
2:20 pm
If you don’t pay your workers enough to afford your goods, you can’t sell your goods.
Henry Ford gave his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:21 pm
Mick:
You left out Afghanistan continuing under Obama.
fedup
December 6th, 2012
2:21 pm
There are stupid people in all catagories. Most of the CONS are stupid and fewer LIBS are stupid and this STUPID LIBERAL is soooo stupid his mama ………
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:23 pm
Mick:
Afghanistan – 2164
Benghazi – 4
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
2:24 pm
ARMW
http://www.madeinamericastore.com/
getalife
December 6th, 2012
2:25 pm
Our President ended the Afghanistan occupation and their leader wants us gone now.
We should go..
Doggone/GA
December 6th, 2012
2:25 pm
“Henry Ford gave his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making”
Henry Ford gave SOME OF his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making. he increased the pay of the men in his business, but not the women.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:27 pm
Jay:
How many lives could be saved every year in the U.S. if the maximum speed limit for any road or highway was 45mph?
30,000? 40,000?
Why don’t we do that ?
How many lives could be saved every year if every driver had to pass a “vehicle breathalizer” test before it would start?
30,000? 40,000?
Why don’t we do that?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:28 pm
getalife:
Tell Obama ……. he’s in charge or is he not listening to you now ?
Welcome to the Occupation
December 6th, 2012
2:28 pm
Erwin’s cat: “Henry Ford gave his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making”
Yes, and Fordism as a model for capitalism has been dead since the crisis of the 1970s.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
2:30 pm
Henry Ford gave his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making
And 100 years later, Ford Motor Company still has plants in the US. Can’t quite say the same thing for VF Corporation and Wrangler jeans.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
2:31 pm
scout,
He knows the majority wanted out of Afghanistan so he set the date.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 6th, 2012
2:33 pm
fedup
December 6th, 2012
2:21 pm
There are stupid people in all catagories. Most of the CONS are stupid and MORE LIBS are stupider and this STUPID LIBERAL is soooo stupid his mama loves him for it.
fixed it for ya..
Fred ™
December 6th, 2012
2:34 pm
It’s worse in China, only it doesn’t get reported from there.
Regnad Kcin
December 6th, 2012
2:34 pm
Mr Digits – you seem depressed today – all your posts are about death and such.
Maybe take a walk, or tell someone a joke – you’ll feel better.
Mick
December 6th, 2012
2:34 pm
0311
Yep…
Fred ™
December 6th, 2012
2:36 pm
Doggone/GA
December 6th, 2012
2:25 pm
“Henry Ford gave his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making”
Henry Ford gave SOME OF his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making. he increased the pay of the men in his business, but not the women.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Feminazi………….
It still goes on today. Women make less for the same job. It’s changing but too slowly.
appleseed
December 6th, 2012
2:37 pm
Automation made it possible for us to compete.Now on a global scale I think we can look to balance the money.We should set the income tax rate on ????? Yuan.
getalife
December 6th, 2012
2:37 pm
The tea party had it’s “Waterloo” and are dead.
The majority still rules our country even after citizen united.
If you can’t beat him cons, join our President.
curious
December 6th, 2012
2:40 pm
Wal-Mart’s success is due to that dastardly 47% of moochers.
receives several gov't checks
December 6th, 2012
2:40 pm
If Obama was president over there, this incident wouldn’t have happened. This is crony republicanism at its finest. They don’t give a d**n about people! It is time for world wide economic fairness and to cut this tyrannical nonsense out! This is why we will be a blue state by 2016!
Tom Middleton
December 6th, 2012
2:41 pm
People first always, right? I mean, isn’t this what we democracy lovers are always supposed to believe? So why do we worship the profit motive to such an extreme that we let it destroy the very foundation of who we say are? I mean, it should be Walmart no more if they can’t do any better than that, right? (And there goes my dream of getting a job as one of their crotchety old door greeters.)
Mick
December 6th, 2012
2:41 pm
I’m totally in favor of some serious wealth redistribution after seeing all the money that those walton children have amassed. You would think that they would want their loyal employees to be the best paid? Nahh it just doesn’t work that way. One billion equals 10 hundred million, seriously what more can you do with a fortune like that???
STUPID LIBERAL
December 6th, 2012
2:42 pm
Hell, lets just make Obama king of the world.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:42 pm
getalife:
“He knows the majority wanted out of Afghanistan so he set the date.”
Ah ………………… are the President and Panetta not talking to each other ?????
HEADLINE NBC News: “Panetta: US foresees ‘enduring presence’ to fight al-Qaida in Afghanistan”
WASHINGTON — “Al-Qaida fighters are still trying to make inroads into Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Thursday, cautioning that battling the group would be a core U.S. mission there for years to come.”
P.S. Maybe you need to get out more often.
indigo
December 6th, 2012
2:43 pm
Money is the bottom line in this life. Because of this, businessmen and women with little or no conscience run companies that are the most profitable. Since they have little or no concept of right and wrong, they can run roughshod over all those pesky rules and regulations meant to safeguard their workers and customers.
Their boards of directors are composed of similiar sociopathic personalities who live for one thing, and one thing only, profit.
There is no known way to correct this problem so this tragedy in Banglalesh as well as the general mistreatment of American workers will continue.
Erwin's cat
December 6th, 2012
2:43 pm
Women make less for the same job
If the comparison is apples to apples and all human capital is included…women make about 3% less,
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 6th, 2012
2:44 pm
STUPID LIBERAL:
Remember when all of the Middle East problems were going to be solved because he was elected the first time ?
Ooooops !
Regnad Kcin
December 6th, 2012
2:45 pm
“Remember when all of the Middle East problems were going to be solved because he was elected the first time ?”
Could I get a link to that, Mr Digits?
stands for decibels
December 6th, 2012
2:46 pm
Remember when all of the Middle East problems were going to be solved because he was elected the first time
No. I don’t. Why don’t you point me to the elected officials who were making that specific claim?
TaxPayer
December 6th, 2012
2:46 pm
Have Republicans managed to bring up the case that those jobs could be here in the states were it not for minor things including regulations prohibiting the exploitation of minors and unsafe work environments amongst other profit-robbing things. And blaming the consumer for buying the lower cost item after first making sure that the consumer can only afford the lower cost item is really a stretch, dontcha know.
stands for decibels
December 6th, 2012
2:47 pm
Ok, Scout, take care of Regnad’s request first, THEN mine.
TaxPayer
December 6th, 2012
2:48 pm
Remember when all of the Middle East problems were going to be solved because he was elected the first time ?
No. This has been yet another example of the appropriate use of simple answers.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 6th, 2012
2:48 pm
digits,
you should refrain from asking Stupid Liberal any questions, because all of them will answer you.
Ken
December 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
It is not WalMarts fault that cheap imports are sold here. Put the blame where it belongs. Congress and ” K ” Street are the guilty ones.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
December 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
why haven’t the American Unions gone overseas and organized these workers?
Mick
December 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
You know the jews expected jesus to solve their middle east problems with the romans, that wasn’t his purpose.
No american president has been able to solve the ME problems, although the much maligned jimmy carter was hands down the best at that effort…
getalife
December 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
scout,
You know we usually keep troops there after a war.
Regnad Kcin
December 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
Wal-mart decided to offer the lower-priced item – it’s a bit disingenuous to blame the consumer for buying it…
appleseed
December 6th, 2012
2:50 pm
Iran put the big hurt on us when they accepted currencies other than the petro$.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
2:52 pm
There is no known way to correct this problem so this tragedy in Banglalesh as well as the general mistreatment of American workers will continue.
I disagree. If one is to believe in American Exceptionalism, then that should extend to us being able to teach other countries based on the growing pains we’ve already experienced. Company execs should be more than willing to proactively take care of the safety of workers as opposed to re-inventing the wheel by fighting organized labor again. History has a way of repeating itself, and the story doesn’t typically change or end differently when you do the same thing while expecting different results.
TaxPayer
December 6th, 2012
2:53 pm
Now follow along closely as I explain that 25% is actually 3%. Or is it 14%.
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
2:56 pm
Uncle Samantha
Why not read the link provided earlier by Welcome to the Occupation @ 1:37?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/world/asia/bangladeshi-labor-organizer-is-found-killed.html
DawgDad
December 6th, 2012
3:01 pm
I wonder how many people complaining, including Jay, actually shop at Wal-Mart. People (including the far-leftists) want access to less costly things and in general ignore the underlying problems, whether it’s outsourced manufacturing or sweat shop conditions or whatever. Uplifting the third world and less wealthy nations is a process as some have referenced. It typically starts with some level of what we perceive as exploitation on the basis of low wages and poor working conditions, but exploitation in our eyes might well be a blessing in the eyes of the workers and their families and communities.
While we’re at it, how many people down on Wal-Mart and big bosses are advocates for illegal immigration, effectively seeking to ensure an on-going flow of second-class citizens willing to accept poor wages, benefits, and unsafe working and living conditions?
It is obviously healthy to identify the issues, assess, and work to address them. Just be careful not to leave out assessment and careful consideration of the many stakeholder perspectives and interests.
Instead of spending x millions of dollars on a presidential election and a stream of offensive negative campaign ads maybe we should all demand that money and energy goes to improve working conditions in Bangladesh. Stop voting for Democrats and Republicans. People want to believe they care and talk like they care but almost all of us lack the will to act when doing so incurs a significant personal cost. We want 4G phones, and the latest video games, and 10 pairs of socks for a buck. So we have a consumer economy that isn’t perfect, but in time it pulls up the Japans and Chinas and others willing to play the game. It disrupts lives and heaps windfall rewards on some, and fosters corruption if unchecked, but it provides a healthy measure of stability and prosperity and opportunity and hope to more people than ever before in the history of the world.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:01 pm
Alas, the next step is the companies learning that yes, it IS worth it to upgrade those factories. Of course, they should have known before and reduced the risk for the sake of the workers, but that part is hindsight now.
We’ll see if they’ve actually learned and will upgrade factories to actually be safer.
Every relative of those workers should petition their country to take WalMart et al. to World Court for crimes against humanity.
This is not about “they should’ve known”; this is about “they knew but decided the dollar was worth more than one human life”.
“When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.” ― Shirley Chisholm
“The Road To Serfdom is about capitalism. That’s why on the side of that road you’ll find me, in a kiosk, selling ankle chains and handcuffs. ” ― Jarod Kintz, 99 Cents For Some Nonsense
Union
December 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
Mick
December 6th, 2012
2:41 pm
I’m totally in favor of some serious wealth redistribution after seeing all the money that those walton children have amassed.
heaven help anyone that is successful anymore.. we need to all stop what we are doing and get one of those government jobs..
Tom Middleton
December 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
Regnad Kcin
There are consumers and there are socially connected consumers, who know they have both a conscience and a choice. Picking and choosing were we shop based on conscience has done great things for this country, among them making sure everyone has their constitutional rights! Just sayin’…
saywhat?
December 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
“Remember when all of the Middle East problems were going to be solved because he was elected the first time ?”
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No. But I remember when all the middle east problems were going to go away because the last president invaded Iraq and root out all the WMD, or oops, I mean plant the seeds of democracy.
That Black Guy
December 6th, 2012
3:04 pm
Mr. Snarky
December 6th, 2012
12:59 pm
Sounds like “STUPID LIBERAL” is just stupid…trying to change the subject, naturally.
___________________________________________________________________
Yes, because Jay’s piece was about Republicans stance on regulations, so you didnt say anything about this comment…
“I get it now, the Republicans are against regulations because it’s just too costly to ensure people survive a day on the job. Nice.”
No, it was about Serbia’s ambassador, so you ignored this…
“Serbia’s ambassador to NATO was chatting and joking with colleagues in a multistory parking garage at Brussels Airport when he suddenly strolled to a barrier, climbed over and flung himself to the ground below, a diplomat said”
Or maybe your selective poutrage gland is in hyperdrive and causes you to only see off-topic comments from the left.
There’s an app for that.
straitroad
December 6th, 2012
3:04 pm
Jay, I’m pretty sure Cox Communications sells or has sold some of it’s product via Walmart. Am I wrong?
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:06 pm
SoCoBro: Company execs should be more than willing to proactively take care of the safety of workers as opposed to re-inventing the wheel by fighting organized labor again
Well Bro – if that was the case, then BP, instead of taking those billions yearly since the oil spill in the Gulf; would’ve given the money to the states. Instead they had to be MADE to do it.
The only thing those companies understand, is PAIN. The only pain they feel is the pain of a loss of profits.
mark in mid-town
December 6th, 2012
3:07 pm
Erwins cat writes: Henry Ford gave his workers a better wage so they could buy the products they were making
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I think this is an urban legend. If enabling his workers to be able to afford his cars was the reason Ford paid his workers more, then Ford very easily could have just paid them less and given them employee discounts. So that was not the real reaon Henry Ford paid his workers more than the prevailing wage. The real reason was the Henry Ford understood that if he paid his workers more, that he would be able to attract the most productive workers. So Ford’s thinking was the he would pay double the prevailing wage, and the employees he attracted would be way more than twice as productive on average, thus saving him money in the aggregate. You can see a similar dynamic at a fast food chain such as Chick-fil-A. I don’t exactly know what they do to attract the cream of the crop among fast food workers, but they are seemingly able to hire fast food workers who on average are massively more productive and competent than your typcial fast food establishment. Chances are a person 10th in line at a Chick-fil-A will be served before a person 4th in line at most of their competitors. Not only that, the order will be correct 99% of the time. With other fast-food establishments, you don’t dare drive off without first checking to see if what they put in the bag is what was ordered.
Union
December 6th, 2012
3:08 pm
@ debbie.. tell that to citi workers.. over 11,000 laid off because of low profits.. maybe they feel the pain too?
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:11 pm
DawgDad: I wonder how many people complaining, including Jay, actually shop at Wal-Mart
First — Sorry about the SEC Championship . Maybe next year.
I haven’t entered into a WalMart ever since 2007. I found out about how they paid women substantially lower than men, YET worked them 2x as hard, and i’ve boycotted them ever since.
Besides, all that cheap crap from China is laden with toxins and impurities. If that doesn’t kill ya, then the nasty looking “food” in the meat section will.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 6th, 2012
3:13 pm
Well, it’s too bad all those people got burned to death.
I just hope WalMart won’t raise their prices because of all this. I need to go there every month for my white sox and underwear when it’s time to take my bath. Things are sorta tight, you know.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
December 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
Brosephus™
still doesnt explain why the American Unions haven’t gone overseas to organize…………. we have a much better record and no country will want DEAD AMERICANS as PR to entice business……… the added benefit is that as wages RISE across the globe……. it becomes more less profitable to stay overseas and encourages a move for production back to the US……………
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:14 pm
debbie.. tell that to citi workers.. over 11,000 laid off because of low profits.. maybe they feel the pain too?
Citi isn’t feeling any pain. They’re making a strategic move in order to boost the Board and Investors’ portfolios.
The workers, well workers ALWAYS feel the pain. Ask the loved ones of those that died in that fire.
Georgia
December 6th, 2012
3:15 pm
In other words, stated differently than Jay, to recap summarily, Sam Walton put life on sale. To paraphrase, or explain alternately, Sam Walton sets the pound price of a life.
DebbieDoRight -- The Only Thing Wrong With Capitalism Is Capitalists...
December 6th, 2012
3:16 pm
BTW – Wasn’t Citibank one of the companies that were bailed out?
Redcoat
December 6th, 2012
3:18 pm
Fires only happen at companies supplying Wal Mart………?
Brosephus™
December 6th, 2012
3:18 pm
Uncle Samantha
American in Bangladesh is subject to their rules, not ours. I don’t know of very many people who are going to volunteer for such as suicide mission. Most Americans I know enjoy living just a we bit more than the idea of being a martyr for the labor movement.
STUPID LIBERAL
December 6th, 2012
3:19 pm
Obama supported the bailouts, so it is just fine for Citigroup to layoff how many people necessary. If they need more, we have TARP ready for them.