A technical guide to cliff-jumping, fiscal and otherwise
"Oh no, we're going over the edge and I'm not driving!!!"
Hi ho, hi ho, it’s off the fiscal cliff we go ….
Yes, it’s still pretty early in the process. Negotiators in Washington are several weeks from the deadline for averting the so-called fiscal cliff, which would automatically kick in some $600 billion in tax hikes and spending cuts. But so far, neither side is willing to take the steps necessary to alter course. U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina predicted over the weekend that “we’re going over the cliff,” and it wouldn’t be a surprise if he turns out to be right.
In preparation for that moment, I thought it might be timely to review five classic examples of cliff-jumping, including a brief analysis of the techniques, motivations and survival strategies, if any, involved in each.
1. The iconic “Thelma and Louise:”
The “Thelma and Louise” is a grand philosophical gesture. It makes a statement to the world that life as we had previously known it just isn’t worth living any longer, so what the hell, right? Put the pedal to the metal and let’s see what happens.
A surprising number of those in Congress, both Republicans and Democrats, have apparently joined the “Thelma and Louise Caucus,” raising the odds that we’ll be going over the edge in spectacular style. As Louise told Thelma, “You’ve always been crazy. This is just the first chance you’ve had to express yourself.”
Among other things, it’s a terrible waste of a 1966 Thunderbird convertible.
2. The “Wile E. Coyote”:
Wile E. Coyote is obsessed with catching the Roadrunner, but in the end is always frustrated by his own incompetence and bungling. Quite often, his dreams and plans involve mail-order Acme products, such as Acme rockets, Acme earthquake pills or, in the case of the 2012 GOP campaign, Acme polling and Acme Senate candidates.
The good news is that the Coyote is indestructible. After every failed attempt — most of which involve long, painful falls off a cliff — he picks himself up and tries again. The bad news is, he never seems to learn that doing the same thing over and over again only ensures that you keep getting the same bad results. That is both his charm and his fatal flaw.
3. The Acalpulco Cliff Diver:
The secret to surviving this form of cliff-diving is timing. If you launch your dive at the proper moment, as the ocean waves are surging in toward you, there will be enough water in the bay below to allow a safe entry. However, if you time it wrong — if you jump just as the waves are washing back out to sea — you can find yourself diving headfirst into the rocks below, and the results ain’t pretty.
I think there’s a lesson there, Speaker Boehner.
4. “The Buffalo Jump”:
In the days before the arrival of the horse in North America, Native American tribesmen would whip herds of buffalo into a fearful frenzy and then stampede the herd into jumping off a nearby cliff, where they became easy pickings. And if you think about it, frightening others into jumping off a cliff en masse remains a great business model. Just ask Rush Limbaugh, Grover Norquist and Fox News.
5. “BASE jumping:”
BASE is an acronym for Buildings, Antennas, Spans (such as bridges), and Earth (cliffs), all of which become launching points for daredevil jumpers. Early BASE-jumping pioneers used parachutes to break their falls, but as seen in the video above, the latest innovation is wingsuits (no, not this kind of wingsuit), which turn the jumper into the equivalent of Rocket J. Squirrel.
Like Thelma and Louise, base jumpers go over the edge on purpose. Like Wile E. Coyote, base jumpers do a lot of careful planning. (They do not, however, order their equipment from Acme.) And like the Acalpulco cliff divers, base jumpers have every intention of surviving, and they do … most of the time, anyway.
It remains, however, very dangerous and is not for the faint of heart.
– Jay Bookman
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315 comments Add your comment
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
Any acceptable substitutions Jay? How about arse derby? Butt bonnet? Bun bowler? Cheek chapeau? Rear sombrero? Tail topper? Bottom helmet?
Anything?
godless heathen - fiscal cliff dweller
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
Oldie but goodie:
http://www.torinfo.com/justforlaughs/coyote_v_acme.html
Paul
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
Nunna
“How did throwing money at welfare recipients become my own debt?”
’cause Exxon and Lockheed wield a lot of political clout -
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
“Does butt beret count?”
how about Tuchus Toque?
Behind Beanie?
Fanny Fedora (I know fedora was used earlier – I’m still borrowing it)
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
You asked for it.
http://tinyurl.com/6lxxf
Jm
December 3rd, 2012
12:37 pm
Is a$$hat banned also?
Because I use that to describe what MARTA uses every time it goes down to the state Capitol
Babatunde
December 3rd, 2012
12:38 pm
To those great scenes you could add one more Jay, Bill Murray and Punxsutawney Phil going over the cliff in the pickup in Groundhog Day. Bill and Phil survive, maybe the lesson is we can survive the fiscal cliff.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
12:38 pm
N. Yobinnes — “How did throwing money at welfare recipients become my own debt?”
Blackwater and Halliburton each ate a LOT of school lunches.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Paul – corporate income taxes go to pay “our debt” too.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:40 pm
Double taxed at that.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
Corbin: butt beret: I like it.
UnU:how about Tuchus Toque?
Behind Beanie?
Fanny Fedora (I know fedora was used earlier – I’m still borrowing it)
Some more good ones lol.
JamVet
December 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
Is the stinky Stetson also verboten?
Paul
December 3rd, 2012
12:43 pm
Nunna
Yes, they do.
Now… care to guess how many of those corporations pay no income tax?
How about General Electric?
Boeing?
Verizon?
Mattel?
Tenet Healthcare?
DuPont?
I could go on for a couple dozen more.
Data. It’s a wonderful antidote for sound bites and slogans.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:43 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Paul – corporate income taxes go to pay “our debt” too.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really/ how much “corporate tax” does GE pay? Now how much corporate WELFARE do they get?
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:44 pm
How many of those companies made a profit?
Paul
December 3rd, 2012
12:44 pm
Nunna
How is a corporation ‘double taxed’?
Especially when they pay no income tax in the first place.
You sure you want to continue with this discussion?
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:45 pm
LOL Paul, great minds think alike. Unfortunately though you were thinking like me not a great mind………
I got the better end of that bargain.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:45 pm
Paul – corporate income is taxed and dividends are also taxed. Not too difficult to understand.
smooveb
December 3rd, 2012
12:45 pm
We have a two party system. We have the stupid party (R) and the evil (D) party. Occasionally, the stupid party and the evil party get together and pass a law that is both stupid and evil. This is called bi-partisanship. The fiscal cliff has always been avoidable. The two parties have known this for years. I rest my case.
YouLibs
December 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
0311
“Our country jumped off the “collective cliff” when you libs. voted in Obama.”
Oh, so it’s all my fault now?
Paul
December 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
Nunna
“How many of those companies made a profit?”
You really should do a little research before you take a position.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/03/360185/30-corporations-no-taxes/
Now ask, how did those laws that allowed companies to show losses get passed?
Or, how did the laws that allow earnings to accrue to low-tax countries get passed?
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:47 pm
Kam: Nice catch. I never thought to google it. Do you remember the guy that registered Jesus.com years ago lol? He was funny.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
12:48 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Paul – corporate income is taxed and dividends are also taxed. Not too difficult to understand.”
And who’s paying the tax on those dividends again?
Nero
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
Embrace the Cliff!!! The across the board tax increases and spending cuts are gonna be exquisite. The Boomer leeches are gonna squeal! Haha!!!
Paul
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
Nunna
Not this again.
A corporation pays tax. Maybe.
Investors make a profit and pay tax.
How’s that double?
You go to work for, say, Trader Joe’s.
They make a profit and get taxed.
You get paid and get taxed.
Is the corporation double taxed?
You take after-tax money and start a company.
The company makes a profit and pays tax.
You earn a return and pay tax.
Should you be exempt from any tax?
Sheesh.
It’s so predictable. You make a post, get a few errors pointed out to you, then you default to the old ‘but corporations and investors are taxed twice on earnings!!!” nonsense.
Now, Nunna, back to those other questions about profitable corporations not paying taxes….
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
Paul – Your article shows all those companies with negative tax (which doesn’t exist). The only way to have negative tax is to have loss carryovers or credits which are generally in place to benefit workers or achieve some environmental goal.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
Nero
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
Embrace the Cliff!!! The across the board tax increases and spending cuts are gonna be exquisite. The Boomer leeches are gonna squeal! Haha!!!
++++++++++++++
Everyone will squeal, but I agree with you. Heck, I thought Obama should have not extended the tax cuts 2 years ago.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
Paul – the income is double taxed.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
12:53 pm
Paul @ 1234….
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:54 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
Paul – Your article shows all those companies with negative tax (which doesn’t exist). The only way to have negative tax is to have loss carryovers or credits which are generally in place to benefit workers or achieve some environmental goal.
++++++++++++++++
No, “negative tax” as you describe it is when a company not only DOESN’T PAT TAXES, but they also get GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS which are sometimes referred to as CORPORATE WELFARE.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
12:54 pm
USinUK,
“Tuchus Toque?”
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:55 pm
OK Paul, please explain why interest income doesn’t get taxed at two different levels? Why is dividend income so inherently evil, while interest income gets a free pass?
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
12:55 pm
I have a question…If you file taxes every year and get a refund, is that “not paying taxes”?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Paul – the income is double taxed.”
When businesses create jobs and hire Americans to fill those jobs, I’m all for giving them tax breaks.
However, the incentivization of wealth accumulation is absolutely stupid. Wealth accumulation is its own reward and doesn’t need incentives.
In short — businesses that engage in beneficial economic activity — e.g. putting Americans to work = great. Otherwise, meh.
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
Did someone bring up those poor overtaxed corporations? By all means, let us review:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us/how-local-taxpayers-bankroll-corporations.html?hp
Jerome Horwitz
December 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm
Kamster – What’s happening to your Blues? They came out on fire and now are about to fall off the radar. Man U and City are about to walk away with the EPL.
barking frog
December 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm
The GOP is hoping that everyone will realize how high taxes were under
Clinton and welcome them back to reduce rates again.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
12:58 pm
N, Yobinnes — “Why is dividend income so inherently evil”
You might do better if you stopped trying to presume on the thoughts and opinions of those who don’t necessarily agree with you.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
12:58 pm
Joe – There is a little thing called “accumulated earnings tax”. Accumulated earnings are taxed an additional amount. It’s a relatively low threshhold for huge corporations too.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
12:58 pm
I’m such a bad boy. I shouldn’t taunt Jay. He’s gonna give me a red card if I don’t stop………..
(but I did test the auto snagger for the official version of Butt beret lol, it works).
http://tinyurl.com/cowva5b
Nero
December 3rd, 2012
1:00 pm
We should double down and also get rid of all tax deductions. Institute a minimum corporate tax and make all capital gains fall under state and federal income tax.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:00 pm
Corbin – as long as your tax was more than zero you paid tax. When you get a big refund you are financing the Feds without any return on your investment.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
1:02 pm
So, is Fred being an [ Fred rule invoked ] again?
Paul
December 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
Nunna
” The only way to have negative tax is to have loss carryovers or credits which are generally in place to benefit workers or achieve some environmental goal.”
Source?
But it’s irrelevant. The tax code is structured so they pay no income tax. If they were low-income Americans, Republicans would call them leeches.
” please explain why interest income doesn’t get taxed at two different levels? Why is dividend income so inherently evil, while interest income gets a free pass?”
Because some groups have the clout to get favorable treatment.
But you’re getting farther afield from your original contention. Plus asking questions on unrelated topics.
There’s always that pattern from some.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Joe – There is a little thing called “accumulated earnings tax”. Accumulated earnings are taxed an additional amount. It’s a relatively low threshhold for huge corporations too.”
Accumulated *retained* earnings.
Put those earnings to work *employing* more Americans, and I have no problem extending a tax break.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
Oh and Kam…….. at yesterday’s tourny, one of the U12 girls got a red card. Warren (the DOC for TYSA, check out his resume below) said it was the first time he had seen that my buddy said lol.
http://www.tysa.com/warren-van-der-westhuizen/
Regnad Kcin
December 3rd, 2012
1:04 pm
Gluteal helmet?
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:05 pm
Welcome @ 1:02:
(I wish they had the thumbs up emoticon).
Wilbur
December 3rd, 2012
1:07 pm
Before the election Obama and the far left libs were all about a “balanced approach” to deficit reduction. After the election they only want to raise taxes on a few rich people in a move they know won’t fix the problem. Can you say liar?
Now that Obama is president again he has to get the country back on its feet from his four year nightmare. It’s his watch and his responsibility. He also has to fix the structural deficit. The ideological reflex to “soak the rich” won’t measure up when examined in the light of history’s judgement.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:07 pm
Per GE annual reports – Income taxes for 2011 = 28.5%, 2010 = 7.3%.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
1:11 pm
Could an azz hat be a cranial diaper?
rc
December 3rd, 2012
1:11 pm
What a stupid article Sum it all up for the lib’s “it’s Bush’s fault”
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:12 pm
Wilbur
December 3rd, 2012
1:07 pm
Before the election Obama and the far left libs were all about a “balanced approach” to deficit reduction. After the election they only want to raise taxes on a few rich people in a move they know won’t fix the problem. Can you say liar?
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes we can, but if I (quite correctly) call you a liar for that big fat lie that you just told there I’ll be out of here quicker than a hat off an ass backing up in high wind………….
So I guess you get sort of a free pass on your lie. Try the truth next time, we’d appreciate it.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:13 pm
Corbin: Wouldn’t that be a polar opposite as it were?
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
1:15 pm
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:13 pm
Well yes…but as we both know…opposites attract!
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:16 pm
Fred – please explain where Wilbur told a lie? Perhaps that Obama advocated a “balanced approach” in the first place?
Finn de Siècle (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 3rd, 2012
1:16 pm
Now Acme does make some really nice giant magnets……
The cartoons where Wiley is on the rocket skates and the skates take off but Wiley’s head takes a few seconds to leave the screen used to leave us rolling. Usually he would look right back at us an blink a few times with a look like “ohoh, is it too late to rethink…..”
Mick
December 3rd, 2012
1:17 pm
“it’s Bush’s fault”
Yes, it’s the gift that keeps giving…
Nero
December 3rd, 2012
1:17 pm
Sequestration is gonna be the best Christmas present we’ve had in a long time. Time to pay the Boomer leeches bills. The national butt hurt will be epic!
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
1:18 pm
N. Yobinnes — “please explain where Wilbur told a lie?”
RIght here:
“After the election they only want to raise taxes on a few rich people”
Anyone with a modicum of honesty and half a working memory will recognize Wilbur’s lie right off.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:19 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:16 pm
Fred – please explain where Wilbur told a lie?
++++++++++++++++++++++
Sure that’s easy peasy:
After the election they only want to raise taxes on a few rich people in a move they know won’t fix the problem.
That’s a big fat lie and you kn ow it. It IS the current talking point lie by FOX radio and the talk show radio idiots, but it’s a lie nonetheless.
Can you give me a harder task next time? That one was so easy you could have done it……..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 3rd, 2012
1:19 pm
Well its clear that many do not comprehend negotiating. The President proposed the plan that he was elected on. Now if the Republicans don’t like it, its their job to make a counter proposal and see where the sides will meet. If the GOP wants medicare cuts, then propose them. If they want to close tax loopholes then make the proposals. Obama has said he’ll negotiate. Take him up on it.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:20 pm
Joe – if the administration gets it way, there is nothing factually incorrect about that statement. If they go the fiscal cliff way, then all of us will pay more taxes.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:21 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:20 pm
Joe – if the administration gets it way, there is nothing factually incorrect about that statement.
+++++++++++++++++++
And there ya go REPEATING the lie in a slightly different manner.
Why lie? Why not tell the truth? Is your position so weak?
alex
December 3rd, 2012
1:22 pm
It appears to me that this thread is an EXCELLENT example of why a simplification of the tax code wold be instructive…. and I thank GOD that I am NOT a tax Attorney ( but am very glad I have one!)
Jack ®
December 3rd, 2012
1:23 pm
I knew it was gonna be Boehner’s fault when I read the really really catchy title to this piece. So, let us avoid the ‘cliff’ by requiring all those that make over $250K annually to sign a pledge: the pledge being a promise to never ever enjoy the money you earn and always always feel really bad enough to sign over the excess over $250K to the U.S. Treasury. It can be shown on your Sch A as a legal contribution deduction. And then you’ll feel so much better knowing that Obama really loves you.
oops
December 3rd, 2012
1:23 pm
taxes don’t matter
according to libs anyway
jump away
its fun
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:23 pm
At least I have a position Fred. Too bad you can’t say the same. Are tax increases proposed for all taxpayers at all income levels? Unless, we go over the fiscal cliff, the answer is no. Is that really so hard for you to understand?
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:24 pm
And in other bad news (for Republican who want our Country to fall) auto sales were up for the month of November.
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/automotive/chrysler-sales-up-14-percent-in-november/nTLfp/
alex
December 3rd, 2012
1:25 pm
Keep up…now there you go…Exactly and thank you for being succinct.. Dr. Phil calls it win/win–everybody gets a trophy and gets re-elected.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 3rd, 2012
1:25 pm
Jay,
My vote is clearly for Wyle Coyote…
Did you get a chance to opine on Naders idea? I may have missed if you did..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ralph-nader-why-a-tax-on-stock-trades-should-be-part-of-a-fiscal-cliff-deal/2012/11/30/d6a1285e-3a38-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story.html?hpid=z2
massachusetts refugee
December 3rd, 2012
1:25 pm
there is no one on either end of pennsylvania avenue with the politcal b@lls to make the hard choices that need to made. they will find a way to kick this one down the road for the next congress to worry aboot.
Erwin's cat
December 3rd, 2012
1:28 pm
And in other bad news (for Republican who want our Country to fall) auto sales were up for the month of November.
http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/automotive/chrysler-sales-up-14-percent-in-november/nTLfp/
I’m sure the Italians are thrilled
Adam
December 3rd, 2012
1:29 pm
Wilbur: After the election they only want to raise taxes on a few rich people in a move they know won’t fix the problem.
Not Intended to Be a Factual Statement
Adam
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
Nunna: Obama proposed a balanced approach in which some revenue was raised and some spending cuts were made. In fact, one such deal actually went through. And now he proposes some more cuts by savings in earned benefit programs, and some revenue from taxing the top at Clinton era rates. Among other things.
indigo
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
So a$$hat is banned.
Well, since so many of the challenged here like sports, how about calling them “athletic supporters”.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:23 pm
At least I have a position Fred. Too bad you can’t say the same.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
And there ya go with ANOTHER lie. The lies just roll off your keyboard everytime you type don’t you little rascal.
i’m have been on record for over a YEAR for my wonderful proposal. CUT SPENDING AND RAISE TAXES. But not just arbitrarily because politicians are as foreign to telling the truth and dealing square as you are, so here is how it would work:
For every 100 BILLION dollars of spending that gets cut, 1/10th of a percent of a tax increase would be allowed PER YEAR. None of this stupid “well we cut 5 trillion dollars over the next ten years” crap. We need to SLASH spending NOW. As you can see, if you can do real math not Republican voodoo math, to raise the tax rate 1 percent there would have to be 1 TRILLION dollars in cuts. You want a 4 percent raise in taxes, cut 4 TRILLION dollars.
Just a piece of advise sport, well two pieces: one, tell the truth, you’ll feel better, two: when you’ve dug yourself in a hole over your head, put the shovel down.
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:32 pm
Oh, I see Wilbur’s lie now, he said “a few rich people.” He should have said “all rich people and the upper middle class.”
Adam
December 3rd, 2012
1:32 pm
JHM: Anyone with a modicum of honesty and half a working memory will recognize Wilbur’s lie right off.
Indeed.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:33 pm
Jack ®
December 3rd, 2012
1:23 pm
I knew it was gonna be Boehner’s fault when I read the really really catchy title to this piece. So, let us avoid the ‘cliff’ by requiring all those that make over $250K annually to sign a pledge: the pledge being a promise to never ever enjoy the money you earn and always always feel really bad enough to sign over the excess over $250K to the U.S. Treasury. It can be shown on your Sch A as a legal contribution deduction. And then you’ll feel so much better knowing that Obama really loves you.
++++++++++++++++++++++
And stupidity like this shows the damage talk radio and Fox news can do to a healthy mind……. well assuming he ever HAD a healthy mind to begin with……….
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 3rd, 2012
1:34 pm
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:12 pm
I was listening to Politico today and heard a great quote from some prolific journalist covering DC for decades..don’t recall name..
“when i went in to congress (for interviews) if felt like a bake ham sitting on cold marble waiting for some elected official to come out and lie to me…”
What if any-denomination politician went to DC and started going public with instances where they were asked to lie…also, would go public when unusual “transactions” took place…say real estate deals..or clear bending due to cash or other goods of decisions made..?
He/she could have their own reality show…probably should be an independent and not like that socialist rube Bernie Sanders…
Adam
December 3rd, 2012
1:34 pm
Nunna: Oh, I see Wilbur’s lie now, he said “a few rich people.” He should have said “all rich people and the upper middle class.”
No, the problem here is that he says that the Democrats abandoned spending cuts (the balanced approach) and propose now only tax increases. That is a lie.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 3rd, 2012
1:35 pm
Funny but I guess we learned for sure that socialism in the case of deciding who goes to the Bowl CHAMPIONSHIP series clearly doesn’t work…even semi socialism…even 100% keynesian policy..on and on..
Jm
December 3rd, 2012
1:38 pm
Nader is an idiot
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 3rd, 2012
1:38 pm
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:12 pm
How about a stipulation that NO new spending (entitlements, stimulus, pay raises for congress and the like) increases are to occur until we get to certain agreed to ratios of balance sheet and income statement metrics…?
Tax on stock,and dervative transactions seem to be big money as well…
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
1:39 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Joe – if the administration gets it way”
Who are you to claim you know what the administration wants?
“there is nothing factually incorrect about that statement.”
Everything about that statement is factually incorrect.
“If they go the fiscal cliff way, then all of us will pay more taxes.”
You do recognize that the GOP has a role to play in the matter as well, don’t you?
No, I suspect you don’t.
Jm
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
America is boring
Lets jump over
I have my parachute
Nunna Yobinnes
December 3rd, 2012
1:41 pm
Joe – Um, sorry, I thought that the administration didn’t want to raise taxes on everyone, just those over $250k in income. You’re saying that they didn’t propose that, huh?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 3rd, 2012
1:42 pm
If they go the fiscal cliff way, then all of us will pay more taxes.
Not necessarily, tax rates will increase but a retroactive reduction can take place. How do you think the GOP wil look voting against a tax cut for those making under $250K. You think that might be remembered in 2014?
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:43 pm
Stevie Ray the clown……….. (lol been waiting to use that): I can’t make up my mind on your Ralph Nader thing. My first instinct is to distrust it because it’s from Ralph Nader who is a communist isn’t he? (Didn’t he run for President once under the Communist Party? I may be wrong but that seems to stick in my mind). Also I don’t know enough about it to make an informed judgement BUT……..
At 1/2 or 1 cent like either you or the article said (I read it the first time you posted it), it sounds like a pretty damn good idea. Like oyu, I’m curious to see if Jay responds. I tend to think he hasn’t seen it, or is researching it, rather than he’s ignoring you.
GT
December 3rd, 2012
1:44 pm
It is the American people jumping off those cliffs not the representatives. Instead of blaming the politician the public face of this should be the voting public. Here is what you are doing to yourselves for voting for the guy or gal. Oh the politician lies to them, but looks at these lies; it is like a spouse believing their significant other is sitting up all night for a friend that is what they want to believe. We are suckers or at least some of us are the majority get it right, the minority hear what they think they hear.
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
1:45 pm
N. Yobinnes — “At least I have a position Fred.”
That position appears to involve lots of dishonesty, fabrication, distortion and outright lying, as well as a considerable amount of presumptuously speaking for others who you presumably don’t even know, much less have permission to speak for.
It’s pretty clear that you’re upset with the President in particular and with Democrats in general, but that upset won’t make your fabulism any more likely to come true than banging your ruby slippers together three times will.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 3rd, 2012
1:46 pm
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:43 pm
You have deeply wounded me with your “clown” comment. Please let it be known that my nickname per the folks who know me the best is dic*head. At home my nickname per teenage girls is annoying.
I’d appreciate it if you would give me the respect of using the appropriate label…I’m more advanced than clowns and jokers…
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
1:46 pm
N. Yobinnes — “Joe – Um, sorry, I thought that the administration didn’t want to raise taxes on everyone, just those over $250k in income. You’re saying that they didn’t propose that, huh?”
I’m saying that Wilbur lied and that your defense of him was dishonest at best.
Halftrack
December 3rd, 2012
1:48 pm
Obummer thinks that going off the cliff is with a bungie cord attached and the more you spend and tax you will be jerked right back up. It is the taxpayer that gets jerked around and we have to pay the fiddler to the “tune” of 16 + trillion dollars.
Adam
December 3rd, 2012
1:48 pm
It seems some people prefer responding to those they think they can “win” arguments with because that person has offended them, instead of addressing those of us who present the facts clearly and succinctly.
Thulsa Doom
December 3rd, 2012
1:49 pm
Respect Saban. Do it !!!
bookman parrot
December 3rd, 2012
1:49 pm
jay,
your “warning” for the speaker (in cliff diver #3) would also hold true for the messiah BHO and lib cohorts
Oscar
December 3rd, 2012
1:50 pm
A four per cent increase means someone making 300,000 would pay an additional $2000 in taxes.
When you consider the average worker makes only $50,000 and can barely pay room and board, sounds kind of petty for someone making 300K to complain about paying another $2,000.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
1:50 pm
Jm
December 3rd, 2012
1:40 pm
America is boring
Lets jump over
I have my parachute
++++++++++++++++++
Your mom’s basement is NOT a parachute. You live there already.
(just kidding)