‘Overtaxed’ Americans a politically useful myth

Earlier this week, an analysis by The New York Times confirmed once more a conclusion posted repeatedly on this blog:

Contrary to the popular image of Americans as overtaxed to within an inch of our economic lives, citizens of this country in almost every economic group pay a significantly smaller share of their income in taxes — state, local and federal — than they did 30 years ago.

The sole exception:

“Lower-income households, however, saved little or nothing. Many pay no federal income taxes, but they do pay a range of other levies, like federal payroll taxes, state sales taxes and local property taxes. Only about half of taxpaying households with incomes below $25,000 paid less in 2010.”

nyttaxes

(An interactive and much more extensive version of the chart above is available here.)

Any honest analysis of our current financial situation must account for this basic, fundamental fact. By comparison with other major industrial countries, and by comparison with our own history, we are undertaxed not overtaxed. Politicians buy votes just as easily by promising endless and repeated tax cuts as by promising new spending programs, and after some three decades of such policies, we are shocked to find ourselves increasingly in debt?

– Jay Bookman

999 comments Add your comment

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
10:56 am

Jay

Thanks for a new thread.

How was the show last night?

Welcome to the Occupation

December 1st, 2012
10:57 am

The sole exception:

“Lower-income households

It’s called “class war”, and it rages unabated, flamed by BOTH political parties in this country.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 1st, 2012
11:01 am

Jay:

And because we have been “undertaxed” we became the greatest nation the world has ever seen and you libs. are doing everything you can to change that.

In the meantime, you are totally free to contribute more to the U.S. Treasury anytime you desire. Just write that check. They will take it.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 1st, 2012
11:02 am

Side bar:

Headline NBC News: “Egyptians fear long Muslim Brotherhood rule, warn Morsi is no friend of US”

Be careful what you wish for libs. !

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:03 am

Love seeing charts and smelling coffee in the morning.

Raise taxes on incomes above $500,000. Cut deductions/loopholes. And reduce spending in defense, medicare, medicaid and social security.

And Go Dogs.

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:04 am

Common, the show was excellent. It exceeded my high expectations.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:04 am

Jay

Scouts joke on the FNM thread concerning the bar owner building his business himself seems to be the con talking points.

I wonder if the roads were not built where would he be.

The sewage system wasn’t built, health code not enforced?

Many others contributed to that business behind the scenes.

Without any taxes being levied for the good of the country Scout would not have had a career as a gov’t employee leech LOL

Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...

December 1st, 2012
11:05 am

Jay

Here’s the sad part…although I don’t imagine any Liberals still see JFK as and economic genius (and then theres that whole ask not what your country can do for you…current DEMS have turned that on its head eh?) but revenues increased each time rates dropped from JFK, Reagan, Clinton (cap gains) and Bush…unfortunately, instead of keeping those gains net, we continue to spend beyond the new revenue so the outcomes are all the same. There is much evidence supporting both sides of whether increased taxes increase revenue..we do know that historically speaking, cap gains and dividend rate increases have a better chance of negative implications than the opposite.

Despite changes in tax code up and down, the average tax revenues as a % of GDP have averaged 18-20% over time, spending is a bigger problem…why give a government that clearly irresponsible with our money more cash if guaranteed spending cuts don’t materialize?

Doesn’t matter who is at fault, both parties are equally responsible for this cliff issue..nothing will change..heck BO has already spent any proposed tax increases…

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/fundmastery/2010/07/02/does-hiking-tax-rates-raise-more-revenue/

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
11:06 am

Any honest analysis of our current financial situation must account for this basic, fundamental fact

The key word is honest which seems to be something most conned failed.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:06 am

Predict that Egyptian people will overthown Muslin Brotherhood and kick Morsi out of office.
Vast majority of Egyptians don’t go for Sharia law and radical Islam.

Recon 0311 2533

December 1st, 2012
11:07 am

We don’t have a taxing problem we have a spending problem. Thanks to Jay and the NYT for clarifying that for us.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:09 am

When you reduce taxes it is possible to increase revenues

IF THE COMPANIES DON’T SHIP THE JOBS OFFSHORE.

Geebus are you guys even thinking about the whole picture?

Duwnoodian

December 1st, 2012
11:10 am

Very true regarding out taxation when compared to other industrial counties. And also true about politicians, on both sides, “buying” votes via Tax breaks/Social Security/Medicare and so forth.

A quick point though. In the US we are responsible for our retirement, healthcare, and college education.
I’m in a bracket that has enjoyed overall decrease as noted above, but during this time a few things have happened:

1. Employer went bankrupt, my pension was terminated. Have to really bump up the 401k. Currently 18% contribution per month. Max out IRA. Still thankful to have a good job.
2. My health insurance, which was free when I started my current job, now costs $550 per month for my family. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind paying it, just happy/lucky to have it.
3. Have three kids (my choice and responsibility of course) Squirrel away $750-1k per month into 529 accounts. College costs have far outpaced inflation and wage growth.

Maybe it sorta kinda evens out when compared to Europe.

Morality?

December 1st, 2012
11:11 am

Jay and most other Socialists don’t believe that it is possible to over tax the citizens to expand their SOCIALIST programs.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:12 am

Cutting taxes does not increase tax revenue. It is a short term stimulue, according to Keynes, but it decreases revenue and creates a deficit.
Regan followed Keynes to the letter, he used deficit spending by cutting taxes and increased government spending. Short term stimulus but deficit and increase in national debt.
He had to turn around and raise taxes, as did George H.W. Bush.
Then Clinton raised taxes more and cut spending and built up a surplus.
All just as Keynes predicted in his theories.

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:13 am

No, Stevie Ray. They did not.

In fact, Reagan had to sign multiple tax increases because the increased revenues they had promised never appeared, creating deficits far more massive than predicted. The Bush tax cuts also produced much lower revenues, which is a big reason why we find ourselves in this predicament.

Bottom-line: You are peddling a comforting ideology that has no basis in fact or economic history. Even most conservative economists will tell you it is a complete myth that tax cuts pay for themselves. They do not come close. The more aggressive conservative economists will claim that economic growth compensates for 50 cents of every dollar in tax cuts, but even that claim is controversial.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 1st, 2012
11:13 am

Ooooooooo ! Jealousy !

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

December 1st, 2012
11:14 am

…and after some three decades of such policies, we are shocked to find ourselves increasingly in debt?

Taxes were higher, the percentage of workers in a union was higher, benefits packages were higher, the ratio of CEO pay compared to the average worker was lower but somehow if we just give them there job creators more tax cuts, then everything will be hunky-dory.

It’s pitch fork and tumbrel time.

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:15 am

“Jay and most other Socialists don’t believe that it is possible to over tax the citizens to expand their SOCIALIST programs.

More nonsense. Of course it is possible to overtax citizens.

But the conservative position — that citizens are ALWAYS overtaxed — is ludicrous.

Welcome to the Occupation

December 1st, 2012
11:16 am

Morality? “Jay and most other Socialists don’t believe that it is possible to over tax the citizens to expand their SOCIALIST programs.”

You kiddin me? Jay a “socialist”? That’ll be the day. Jay is a liberal, not a socialist.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:16 am

Socialism is government ownership of industry and business. We don’t have that in this country.
Excpet in professional football where the government ownes the stadiums for the foot teams.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:17 am

foot ball teams?

James

December 1st, 2012
11:17 am

Jay,

When are you and the rest of the liberals going to discuss the 47% that pay ZERO income tax? Surely you realize that 47% of Americans are not retired and disabled.
America has too many free loaders.
Before we raise taxes on the 53% that actual pay taxes…let’s tax the 47% that pay ZERO.

Kamchak - "Socialism" is just a code word for "fear," the monster under you bed ~ Kamchak

December 1st, 2012
11:18 am

Jay and most other Socialists don’t believe that it is possible to over tax the citizens to expand their SOCIALIST programs.

Socialism — BOO!

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
11:18 am

Ahh the mantra of “we don’t have a taxing problem, we have a spending problem”….. but then they go on to want to cut taxes some more and to subsidize corporate excesses…. meanwhile bridges are collapsing.

Kamchak - "Socialism" is just a code word for "fear," the monster under you bed ~ Kamchak

December 1st, 2012
11:19 am

Before we raise taxes on the 53% that actual pay taxes…let’s tax the 47% that pay ZERO.

Not this crap again.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:19 am

“Excpet in professional football where the government ownes the stadiums for the foot teams”

but even in that case, the government doesn’t own the BUSINESS

clem

December 1st, 2012
11:20 am

so according to charts hightest income group has gotten a 14% reduction, the middle income group (100-125) has gotten a 9% reduction and lowest group a 5% reduction using 1980 to 2010. Seems all the more to increase taxes on top 2%. No telling how much that group hides anyway. So higher marginal tax rate and capping deductions and maybe raising cap gains rate not all that detrimental to economy and attacking deficit. Anybody know the % of high income earners and families serve in military? All the more reason.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

December 1st, 2012
11:21 am

Common Sense isn’t very Common:

By the way, I believe Jay’s father was retired military.

If so, was he a “leech” ?

indigo

December 1st, 2012
11:21 am

“especially high earners”

Republicans, the party of the rich, have done everything in their power to reduce taxes for the rich and put as much tax burden as possible on the middle and lower classes. They have made little or no effort to hide this. Why, you ask? Because of skillful propaganda and brainwashing techniques learned from their corporate sponsors in the advertising world, the’ve been able to dupe their electorate into thinking any attempt to fairly tax the rich is “socialism”.

Mick

December 1st, 2012
11:21 am

Taxes are like clothes and shoes – you get what you pay for, if the people want all of their gov’t services not cut, then you have to pay for it. I suggest a 3 to 1 ratio, the top two percent pay 3% and the rest of us 1% with a cap on all programs. After an audit, trim the hedges…

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:22 am

“When are you and the rest of the liberals going to discuss the 47% that pay ZERO income tax”

And when are YOU and the rest of the conned going to understand that THEY PAY OTHER TAXES AND ARE NOT FREELOADERS?

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:22 am

James, if you want to be taken seriously in such discussions, at least take the time to look at the material presented before reciting what you’ve been taught to say.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:22 am

but even in that case, the government doesn’t own the BUSINESS

______

They don’t own the team, but they on and rent out the building (stadium) for a profit. Govt. is in the commerical property rental and management business.

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:24 am

“They don’t own the team, but they on and rent out the building (stadium) for a profit. Govt. is in the commerical property rental and management business.

Actually, two government-owned football teams will be playing in a government-owned stadium right down the street later today, and most of the country will be watching.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:26 am

Not that I am necessarily against government spending money to build stadia (? never took latin) and funding other projects by creating industrial development authorities and financing by selling bonds. Public finance as done great things for the economy.

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:27 am

“They don’t own the team, but they on and rent out the building (stadium) for a profit. Govt. is in the commerical property rental and management business.”

They still don’t own the business. Do you think the owners of the Empire State Building own EVERY business that rents space from them? No, they don’t.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:27 am

Scout

My father was retired military AND retired civil service.

He worked hard for minimal pay during his time in grade.

You are not a leech. but many cons here seem to think that ANYONE getting SS, Medicare or a gov’t pension are leechs.

The NO taxes BS is just that BS

James

December 1st, 2012
11:28 am

Great answer Jay.

You present a chart saying people are paying less taxes today that they were years ago but you ignore the fact that we have a huge segment of the population that pays ZERO income taxes.

I guess you just like to stick to your talking points. Gee, I wonder if that is the reason the AJC circulation continues to decline.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:29 am

I think what cons object to is welfare. Spending money to feed hungry kids. And providing health care to children whose parents can’t afford it. Unemployment insurace to those who lose their jobs during resessions.
And they call it socialism.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:31 am

Doggone, you sure do love to argue. Dogone, Dogone.

Byron

December 1st, 2012
11:31 am

Wait, this graph also shows the progressiveness of the current taxes being paid. I thought there was this “not paying their fair share” statement going around?

Welcome to the Occupation

December 1st, 2012
11:32 am

James: “Before we raise taxes on the 53% that actual pay taxes…let’s tax the 47% that pay ZERO.”

The old “leeching” argument. How original.

The 53% who “actually pay” taxes, as you put it, should be assessed a “hoarding” tax, a tax for hoarding the share of the work and income. The majority of the burden for such a tax should fall on the very top of that 53%, the very top 1%. It is their income which has soared to unheard-of levels under the socialist Kenyan. They can easily afford it and they should have their “asses taxed off” as one former Democratic presidential candidate once put it.

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:32 am

James, look at the chart.

Those making less than $25,000 a year pay roughly 20 percent of their income in various taxes. They are not freeloaders. If you wish to pretend that only federal taxes matter, and only federal INCOME taxes matter, then you are not discussing the topic honestly.

That’s just a fact.

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:32 am

“but you ignore the fact that we have a huge segment of the population that pays ZERO income taxes”

So you think that someone who makes so little they owe no income taxes should have MORE of that little income taken away from them just to fulfill YOU’RE spurious ideas of what? Fairness? Equality? What? Are are you just jealous because YOU AREN’T POOR ENOUGH to own no income taxes. Well, THAT one is easy to fix. It’s not hard at all to join them, and then you too won’t have to pay income taxes.

GuyWritingThis

December 1st, 2012
11:33 am

So you are saying the problem isn’t that our taxes, and thus revenue, are too high? I guess that means the problem must be spending. We spend too much. What a surprise. Glad to see you come around!

When spending has far outstripped population growth plus inflation, you have a spending problem. And HONEST analysis has to include this basic fact.

It’s like if you have a job, and you get a raise of $500, and decide that means you can spend an extra $1k each month. That’s what our government does. All the time, every time. And you just want to feed them more and more of those raises.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:33 am

Oscar@11:29 am

Spot on. I gots mine screw you.

Don’t feed, clothe or educate them and maybe if the cons are lucky they will self deport or die.

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:34 am

“Doggone, you sure do love to argue”

If you don’t like it, just scroll on past. No one is forcing you to read what I post.

George Watson

December 1st, 2012
11:34 am

We all have our facts and ideologies. But as long as fear, prejudice and greed continue to dominate the social conscience of the nation, decisions on distribution of wealth, social and material inequality, and state/corporate vs human rights will remain skewed and predatory. A small number of people can never control a large number of people without rigging the game. It’s not just the myth of ‘over taxation’. ;-)

James

December 1st, 2012
11:35 am

The fiscal cliff is FEDERAL tax Jay … not local and State taxes.

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:35 am

“When spending has far outstripped population growth plus inflation, you have a spending problem”

Not when you voluntarily REDUCE your income you don’t. Then you have an income problem that CAN be fixed.

Mick

December 1st, 2012
11:36 am

Taxes, let’s see, went to the grocery store bought some goods – paid taxes. Filled up with some petrol – paid taxes. Went thru some tolls. Mercifully the air and water is free, well no, water bill – paid utility taxes.. Get the picture?

clem

December 1st, 2012
11:37 am

Miller

December 1st, 2012
11:37 am

Let’s go over the “fiscal cliff” so we can have tax rates at the same level as under Clinton. Great times, capital gains and dividend income tax rates were still an awesome 20% then, we were generating budget surpluses and in case folks weren’t alive or earning $ then, it was a heck of a good time economically speaking. What a concept, pay for the government services that you consume and generate surplus to begin paying down the deficit that we have. I’ll take that tax increase with a smile as one of those that pays federal income tax. Go ahead and also let the 2% payroll tax reduction expire as well.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:38 am

Mick

You leech :-)

Why didn’t you just sit there and starve LOL

:-)

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
11:39 am

Byron apparently has not looked at the linked graphs :roll:

TaxPayer

December 1st, 2012
11:40 am

Clearly the problem with our country is that we have people in that 0-25k income bracket. We need job creators to help these folks. Why won’t scout and company hire these people now that they have the tax cuts that they claimed was holding them back.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:40 am

Keep

You can look but not be able to see

:-)

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:41 am

Those under $25K pay 8 percent of their income in FEDERAL payroll taxes, James. That’s twice as much percentage wise as those in the highest tax brackets. Lower-income Americans also pay more of their income in federal excise taxes and fuel taxes.

But you want to simply pretend those dollars and contributions do not exist. It is a willfully blind argument that I and others refuse to take seriously.

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
11:43 am

“It is a willfully blind argument that I and others refuse to take seriously”

It’s sad to see someone be jealous of the poor, it really is.

Corey

December 1st, 2012
11:43 am

Google is a wonderful thing. Wanna know when this great nation became the world’s greatest debtor nation? Wanna know who was POTUS then? Wanna know when the most indictments were handed down to memebrs of a presidential administration in recent history? Wanna know which POTUS said, “We did not trade weapons to our enemies for hostages”( to fund a secret war) and later reveresed and said, “We indeed did trade weapons for hostages.” ? Wanna know who was POTUS when over 200 Marines were killed in a terrorist attack in Lebanon and were placed there because, “our presence will make a difference” if we placed them unarmed between warring factions while we shelled the hillside with a gunboat just off shore? Wanna know who was POTUS when the unemployed started paying taxes on their unemployment benefits? Would you agree that said POTUS deserves his likeness to be carved on Mt. Rushmore?

Welcome to the Occupation

December 1st, 2012
11:43 am

If you wish to pretend that only federal taxes matter, and only federal INCOME taxes matter, then you are not discussing the topic honestly.

If you’r expecting honest discussion from someone of James’s ilk <> you’re probably wasting your time.

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:44 am

Miller – Based on reports of progress out of Washington, that is likely to happen.
Result will be a contraction in the economy and maybe a resession.
Will be a shock to the economy but something we can withstand.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
11:44 am

Common, absolutely. But then elephants have never been known for their great eyesight (although I think that also is a myth if I remember correctly)

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:49 am

Keep

If isn’t spoken they could not comprend math :-)

Here’s and oldie but goodie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1kzd-bdv2w&NR=1&feature=endscreen

Oscar

December 1st, 2012
11:51 am

Corey – And also counted catsup a vegetable in the school program.

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
11:51 am

Spare me the liberal drivel, the problem is spending. If the entitlement president refuses meaningful cuts to go along with revenue increases then let’s go over the cliff. Why all the talk about tax increases when all the reporting and opinions should be about reducing spending in a meaningful, thoughtful way. The tax increases are a drop in the bucket compared to the spending cuts no one on the left wants to touch…..inmates are truly in charge of the asylum now…

JohnnyReb

December 1st, 2012
11:52 am

This country was not founded, well established, and paid for in blood by patirots to become based on wealth distribution.

The way to help people improve themselves is to offer opportunities. Punishing successful people with more and more taxes won’t do that.

World history is full of failure after failure of what Liberals are currently peddling. But they think they are smart, they know what to do, and that those of us who oppose them are helplessly lost. Right.

indigo

December 1st, 2012
11:53 am

Obama recently met with a large number of middle class families and gave a speech.

Republicans, not to be outdone, met with a number of Big Business execs and gave speeches.

Both these events were publicized.

I honestly don’t know how much clearer the Republicans can make it as to who it is they truly care about.

JohnnyReb

December 1st, 2012
11:56 am

The most ridiculous thing to come out of Washington lately is Obama wanting Congress to change law to allow him to raise the National Debt without having to gain Congressional approval.

Such a suggestion is so ridiculous as to make trivial the other suggestions and requests from Obama.

Look under Leader, you won’t see Barry’s photo.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
11:57 am

Spare me the liberal drivel, the problem is spending

Conned code for “I don’t need facts or reason”

Mick

December 1st, 2012
11:57 am

There’s always this alternative if you think you are taxed too much, make more money!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5ooaufrLM

Jay

December 1st, 2012
11:57 am

“This country was not founded, well established, and paid for in blood by patirots to become based on wealth distribution.

More from the “oh woe is me” caucus.

Funny how returning to a pre-2001 tax regimen becomes “wealth redistribution” and Kenyan socialism.

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
11:57 am

Indigo…..speeches and talk are cheap but effective. That is part of the reason Obama was re-elected, all horn and no drive shaft…..you keep on believing

A dad

December 1st, 2012
11:59 am

Interesting chart Jay. And from y reading of it, those “evil rich” making above 250k pay 38% and 42% in taxes, whereas the middle class, let’s say 75k to 200k, pay from 30-34% in taxes. Must admit I’m a bit confused now. I thought the big push the pOTUS and the Dems were making about letting Bush tax cuts expire on anyone making above 250k was that those individuals don’t pay their fair “proportional” share in taxes. Looking at your chart, I see a nice, progressive tax structure that increases along with income. Guess what the libs are really screaming about is they just want the “evil rich” to be cash cows for all the entitlement spending. If this chart is accurate, then I think the real problem is how we spend tax revenues.
Ok everyone, pile on now.

RDl

December 1st, 2012
11:59 am

How about taking this argument seriously. Sure people pay the payroll tax. To my understanding, that is what is suppose to fund social security, at least in theory. Sure people pay medicare taxes. To my understanding that is supposed to pay for medicare in their old age. (Again in theory). Sure, if they have a car, or use transportation, they pay motor fuel taxes directly or indirectly, but to my understanding that is supposed to pay for infrastructure (again, in theory.) Sure they pay a sales tax, but that is a local and state tax, not a federal tax. Perhaps they even pay state income taxes, but again, that is for the operation of the state. Tell me why the people we are talking about, the ones that pay no federal income taxes, or who even get a refund of federal income taxes they didn’t pay in the first place, should not be required to pay for the cost of operating the federal government, whether it is Obama’s salary, the cost of the military or even the cost of all those federal employees we have. To me, saying these folks pay a large percentage of their income for taxes other than federal income taxes ignores the fact that somebody has to pay for the operation of the federal government and that somebody who pays no federal income taxes can’t possibly be paying “their fair share” of operating that government. To simply look at the “percentage” of their income that goes to “taxes” doesn’t seem to address this question at all.

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
11:59 am

Get Realistic

How long did the tax cuts, wars and the offshoring of jobs go on before ANYONE take notice?

The last 4 years of Clinton and the 8 years of Bush have decimated the manufacturing jobs in the USA and you expect it to be fixed in 4 years without any pain?

Until Congress and the Senate AND the President start to work toward a COMMON GOAL.

We will still be pissing into the wind.

But it is Congress (lead by Boehnor) that is saying NO DEALS (just like last time)

Tundra Dude

December 1st, 2012
11:59 am

Overtaxed’ Americans a politically useful myth

WARNING
Whenever “They” start telling us how good we got it….
hang on to yer wallet…….
a Big tax hike is imminent…

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
12:01 pm

Keep….facts are facts but you keep living in fairy land, wait….a magic unicorn is just outside your door. Jump on and you can ride to entitlement land, it will be a short ride though as we are living in it..

Doggone/GA

December 1st, 2012
12:02 pm

“those “evil rich””

Why is it always the so-called “conservatives” that call the rich evil?

Rafe Hollister

December 1st, 2012
12:04 pm

Reagan and Bush 41 had to raise taxes, not because the tax cuts failed to raise revenue, but because the Dems never came through with the spending cuts they promised. Look what happened when Clinton lowered capital gains taxes, money rolled in, but you can’t use that as an excuse to spend more each year. As long as you continue to spend more and more each year, you will always be looking for more and more revenue, just like ole Barry is now.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
12:06 pm

Well thanks for the unicorn Get…. I tried to get one from the Romney campaign but apparently the GOP suckers had bought them all. Did you get that one from Unskewed Unicorns?

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
12:06 pm

Doggone/GA

Why is it always the so-called “conservatives” that call the rich evil?
——————————————————————————-

Because they hate their masters?

USA Patriot

December 1st, 2012
12:06 pm

Another take on the chart JB provided:

Using the Times online interactive graphic, you can compare the average tax rates between any two years. Here, by income level, is how the average tax rate changed from 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, to 2010, the most recent year available.

0 to 25K, fell by 4 percentage points
25 to 50K, fell by 3 percentage points
50 to 75K, fell by 2 percentage points
75 to 100K, fell by 2 percentage point
100 to 125K, fell by 1 percentage point
125 to 150K, fell by 1 percentage point
150 to 200K, unchanged
200 to 350K, rose by 2 percentage point
350K+, rose by 1 percentage point

That is, according to the Times numbers, since Reagan left office, tax rates have risen at the top and fallen for the middle class and especially the poor.

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/

Rafe Hollister

December 1st, 2012
12:07 pm

A thriving growing economy does much much more to generate revenue for the Gov than any other source can come close to. You do not get a thriving growing economy by raising taxes, unless there is something unusual going on in the economy, like the dot.com bubble during the Clinton years.

paulo977

December 1st, 2012
12:08 pm

Oscar …..”Vast majority of Egyptians don’t go for Sharia law and radical Islam.”
__________________________________________________________________

So many of us would prefer to believe that this is not true and that we have to stick ourselves in there and give them DEMOCRACY , as WE have developed it !!!

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
12:08 pm

No Common Sense

All I hear from Obama is tax and more taxes. I agree Congress should be driving the discussion much better than they are. I also agree that the debt did not just start under Obama but he has spend more and added to the debt in an unprecedented fashion. Please stop living in the past and who did what and when, the debt is a massive issue that must be dealt with now. Simply raising taxes on successful people to appease the liberal base does nothing to solve the long term problem…

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
12:08 pm

Keep

I got a unicorn that craps skittles LOL

Wilbur

December 1st, 2012
12:11 pm

Undertaxed Americans is a ridiculous idea.

How much would be enough Jay? Is it more important to fund the endless demands of the state or the needs of the people who actually make the money?

Common Sense isn't very Common

December 1st, 2012
12:11 pm

Get Real

I understand what you are saying, but Congress said if we cut taxes jobs will expand.

There has not been many jobs created as businesses are hoarding the cash or they are expanding offshore.

Businesses are not doing THEIR part in the recovery process. They have had 12 FLIPPIN years to assist and they are not doing it.

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
12:13 pm

Unicorns are only available for liberals in entitlement land, they do not exist for conservatives. To be honest, it would be nice to live in a delusional state where money grows on trees and everything is free…how is the weather there Keepie?

Jay

December 1st, 2012
12:15 pm

“Unicorns are only available for liberals in entitlement land, they do not exist for conservatives. To be honest, it would be nice to live in a delusional state where money grows on trees and everything is free”

Right.

“Daddy, tell me the story again about the unicorn who says ‘cutting taxes increases tax revenue’. I just love that fairy tale.”

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
12:15 pm

Common, agree they are hoarding cash but why do you think that is….I do not accept “just greedy and evil” as the answer…..

curious

December 1st, 2012
12:16 pm

The real “takers” are the 2%.

They want it all and give nothing back. Not even as much as military service to our country.

They perfectly satisfied to have the benefit of our blood, sweat, and tears, while throwing the masses a bone.

The 2% don’t think this country can operate without them, but it can.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 1st, 2012
12:18 pm

Get, I am sure your unicorn is real to you…. and the GOP tells you those pellets are skittles and you believe them. Tell us more about how tax cuts and job creators make those skittles. :D

larry

December 1st, 2012
12:18 pm

Republicans have been going after SS since it was inacted in 1935 and Medicare/Medicaid 30 years later.

Although they have no effect on the national debt. We pay for them separately with a separate tax. Now the spending we finance with our federal income taxes , that is what needs to be cut. Notice the Repubs never say anything about defense spending.

indigo

December 1st, 2012
12:19 pm

Get Real – 11:57

Obama’s speech was to a group of middle-class families.

Republican’s speeches were to a group of Big Businessmen.

Take off your blinders.

Jay

December 1st, 2012
12:20 pm

“Common, agree they are hoarding cash but why do you think that is….I do not accept “just greedy and evil” as the answer…..

I don’t either.

The reason they’re hoarding cash is because after the biggest economic crisis in 80 years, consumer demand is down because people can no longer use their homes as an ATM. In fact, those homes have become major income sucks, and there’s not a lot government can do to reverse that. It’s going to take time.

Get Real

December 1st, 2012
12:21 pm

Oh Daddy Jay….please tell me the story about the great Obama in the sky how made all the world problems disappear and cured all our ills. Also, Daddy Jay can you please pass the crack pipe when you are done so I can join you in La La land, I hear it is a ver special place. Do I have to click my heels 3 times….

Corey

December 1st, 2012
12:24 pm

The next time you attend a Falcons game at the Dome or SEC championship game ask yourself who cleans up this place. Primarily the homelsess(you deride)who you see wandering aimlessly throughout the day in downtown Atlanta. They are paid under the table for less than minimum wages. Seven to eight hours for a total of $15.00 while the person who has that contract with GWCC Authority is paid thousands. This is the kind of crap conservatives and their enablers want to see more of. If they can find a bed in a shelter they’re lucky. I’ve encouraged some to contact the Labor Department’s wage and hour division. The “conservative movement” began in the eighties and has been gaining steam while the nation has not improved. The working poor and the middle class’s earning and purchasing power has been steadily declining. People who used their home equity as an ATM thought they had truly arrived only to see their home values evaporate due to the excesses of Wall Street while GW Jr. chuckled, “Wall Street got drunk.” Once again red state enablers revel in the genius of Limbaugh, Hannity, Cain, Bachman et. al., rush to the polls and prostrate themselves for more conservatisism. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.