‘Overtaxed’ Americans a politically useful myth
Earlier this week, an analysis by The New York Times confirmed once more a conclusion posted repeatedly on this blog:
Contrary to the popular image of Americans as overtaxed to within an inch of our economic lives, citizens of this country in almost every economic group pay a significantly smaller share of their income in taxes — state, local and federal — than they did 30 years ago.
The sole exception:
“Lower-income households, however, saved little or nothing. Many pay no federal income taxes, but they do pay a range of other levies, like federal payroll taxes, state sales taxes and local property taxes. Only about half of taxpaying households with incomes below $25,000 paid less in 2010.”
(An interactive and much more extensive version of the chart above is available here.)
Any honest analysis of our current financial situation must account for this basic, fundamental fact. By comparison with other major industrial countries, and by comparison with our own history, we are undertaxed not overtaxed. Politicians buy votes just as easily by promising endless and repeated tax cuts as by promising new spending programs, and after some three decades of such policies, we are shocked to find ourselves increasingly in debt?
– Jay Bookman
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999 comments Add your comment
barking frog
December 2nd, 2012
10:15 pm
and a rollicking good night from the frog on the blog at the bottom
of the AjayC…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
10:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4D3FdWd5s
Alex
December 2nd, 2012
10:50 pm
trying to make sense of these charts………let’s get some longer term data let’s say 1900 -2012, why not, hmmmmmmm..
Remember when the bowls pitted competitive teams not he crap of USC and Ga. Tech or Ga. Vs. Nebraska, and this must be must-see TV, yuk
Alex
December 2nd, 2012
10:58 pm
Brief review of tonights posts : cue ” gone with the wind” ….. we have raw peanuts, cotton, hi volume families and mommas..throw in a gun or two and a train and you’ve got a C&W song…
Oscar
December 2nd, 2012
11:08 pm
Alex – the bowls are all about the tv money. Anything for another check for the team.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
6:16 am
Good Monday morning all y’all,…
http://cheezburger.com/6796864512
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
6:24 am
Corbin –
love it!!
how was decorating this weekend? did you have a good time with the little’uns?
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
6:36 am
USinUK,
Had a great time…your brownies and oatmeal cookies were wonderful! We are not quite finished yet (football, ya know), but all of the high stuff is done. Thanks again for all those recipes, it made me a hero!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
6:38 am
awww … yay! and did the kiddies have a good time decorating the house? did you make gallons of hot chocolate for everyone??
on a separate (but related) note, how’s ye olde knee??
On the Fiscal Cliff, Republicans Got Nothin’
December 3rd, 2012
6:38 am
It’s Day 26 of the fiscal-cliff hostage situation, and it’s clear that GOP negotiators have lost touch with reality. Daniel Gross on their astounding lack of a counteroffer to the Dems.
Adrenaline-filled, aggressive combatants paraded around on national television and started trash-talking, aiming to intimidate their opponents and get inside their heads. Oh, and the National Football League also played some games.
Sunday, Dec. 2, was Day 26 of the fiscal cliff hostage situation. And the Democrats, who gained an immense advantage in the negotiations over future tax rates by virtue of their victories in the election, seem, finally, to be developing some swagger. Their tone toward the Republicans has become somewhat patronizing. First, there was President Obama’s mid-week invitation of Mitt Romney to lunch at the White House, which was simultaneously magnanimous and a pretty naked power move. Romney couldn’t refuse to come without looking like an extremely sore loser. The single photo released, which quickly went viral, showed Obama giving Romney the kind of good-try handshake that coaches deliver to their opponents after a thorough spanking.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/02/on-the-fiscal-cliff-republicans-got-nothin.html
Missing a LOT
December 3rd, 2012
6:50 am
Missing from analysis: State Tax, SSI. Medicare, Property Tax, School Tax, City Tax (IE, NYC), Local Tax, Sales Tax, Junk taxes like MARTA Tax, Local Franchise Fees, Universal Service Fund Fees, and the untold dozens of junk fees added on to our monthly tallies by banks, utilities and local service providers …. and just for the heck of it, throw in Charitable Contributions, which the “poor” count on to pay their bills. Add ALL taxes together and see if the “rich” really don’t pay their fair share.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
6:50 am
USinUK,
The wife bought some paper mache deer and Styrofoam balls, The older kids painted the deer with white craft paint and glitter. The little ones I helped make snow men. The deer is going on the tree and the snow men are going on the mantle. Gotta love it.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
6:53 am
Ah…the knee…I have a double tear of the meniscus. I’ll get surgery New Years Eve (my anniversary too). The wife said we need to get it done before the first of the year.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
6:54 am
oh, yay Sharpe family – I love it!! and did you rock out to Charlie Brown Christmas music?
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
6:59 am
gah – sorry about the surgery – am assuming it’ll be keyhole? unfortunate that you’ll miss a glass of bubbly with the misses on NYE, but you’ll be on FAR better stuff!! I’m glad to hear that they’ll be able to repair it – does this mean no more injections ??
Jack ®
December 3rd, 2012
7:09 am
Geithner, the IRS boss, wasn’t ‘overtaxed’.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
7:16 am
USinUK,
The wife and I will celebrate when we can, but honestly, everyday I have with her is a celebration. As to music, not so much, When the kids were done with the crafts, we went down to my man cave and watched Polar Express. When the bell came up in the movie, my four year old great grand daughter got a big surprised look on her face and yelled, “Grandpa has one too”. I had hoped she would make the connection when I had shown her my bell a few days ago. Now Ahem, ALL the young ones think I have been to Santa’s house!
Mick
December 3rd, 2012
7:18 am
**ALL the young ones think I have been to Santa’s house!**
Little do they know, they ARE in santa’s house!!!
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
7:26 am
Mick,
Thanks…
Ben The Independent
December 3rd, 2012
7:35 am
The middle income (and others) people are spending less and saving more because of fear of the state of the economy. Only a far left liberal would conclude that our taxes should be raised because the fortunate people who work are saving more. As far as the lower income people; They are protected with social programs. One giant step that can be taken to satisfy the far left is to make this a communist nation. Even Pravda is making fun of our move in that direction.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
7:39 am
Off topic, but the Navy loses an icon…
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/12/navy-enterprise-leaves-fleet-but-name-to-live-on-120212/
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
December 3rd, 2012
7:39 am
Ben The Independent Meet Ronald Reagan the far left Liberal….
Oh And Good Morning campers….
“The wife and I will celebrate when we can, but honestly, everyday I have with her is a celebration.”
Mrs. Normal is a lucky lady.
(So am I)
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
7:46 am
“Ben The Independent Meet Ronald Reagan the far left Liberal….”
(snicker)
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
December 3rd, 2012
7:49 am
USinUK
Prefer Milky Way…mmmmmmmmmmm
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
7:51 am
GG – I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again:
if Reagan was in office today, the same people who venerate him as a saint would HATE him
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
7:56 am
Granny G…
“Mrs. Normal is a lucky lady.
(So am I)”
Thanks and I bet you are!
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
8:07 am
Back to the topic!
Breaking from Newsmax.com
Cracks Appear in House GOP’s Anti-tax Wall
A growing number of Republicans in the House of Representatives — including a handful of tea party-backed conservatives — are signaling greater flexibility than their leaders to reach a fiscal cliff deal with President Barack Obama.
They are not buckling on demands to slash spending or agreeing with Obama’s exact proposals to avert across-the-board tax hikes and spending cuts set to start on Jan. 1. But unlike House Speaker John Boehner, they suggest they would be open to higher tax rates on wealthy Americans as part of a broader deal to slash deficits.
Obama is hoping to appeal to more potential renegades to get a deal to avoid the massive tax hikes and spending cuts that economists say could tip the economy into a recession.
“If we can get a few House Republicans on board, we can pass the bill … I’m ready to sign it,” Obama said on Friday at an event in Pennsylvania.
The vast majority of Republicans in the House, led by Boehner, say they will not accept any higher tax rates, preferring to increase tax revenue through reforms and closing loopholes.
But among those newly voicing flexibility is tea party-endorsed Rep. Sean Duffy of Wisconsin, who said he backs a “balanced” approach — adopting the language Democrats, including Obama, use to describe a tax rate increase on the rich, although he said he would rather raise revenue in other ways.
“I’m not at rates, I’m at revenue, I’m at loopholes,” Duffy said. “But listen, revenue should be revenue, whether you are doing it by rates or loopholes.”
Rep. Allen West of Florida, who had strong tea party backing but lost his bid for a second term, said he was open to a higher tax rate on those earning more than $2 million — a far higher threshold than Obama’s push to raise taxes on families with net incomes above $250,000 a year.
“If you want to talk about a compromise, that’s a fair compromise,” West said. “I want people to get to that million, I want people to get over that. Small business are 75 to 80 percent of our economy. I want to incentivize them.”
Even though West lost his seat, he would still be able to vote on a fiscal cliff deal since the new Congress is not sworn in until January.
Justin Amash, another tea party movement favorite, said everything needs to be considered to reduce the country’s debt burden.
“I don’t think it would be a good idea to raise tax rates,” said the Michigan representative who identifies himself as a libertarian. But Amash said: “I am not going to take anything off the table if we can resolve some of our biggest issues as a country.”
Amash has a perfect conservative voting record according to the Club for Growth, which evaluated whether freshmen lived up to their promises of fiscal constraint.
Several members or their aides expressed similar sentiments earlier in the week, among them seven-term Rep. Mike Simpson of Idaho.
Republicans hold 241 of the 433 seats currently filled in the House, which has two vacancies. If Democrats vote as a solid block, they may need another 25 votes from Republicans to extend expiring tax cuts for 98 percent of taxpayers, as Obama wants, leaving the wealthiest with tax increases.
These comments contrast with what is still seems to be the dominant sentiment among Republicans, as voiced by Idaho Rep. Raul Labrador.
“Any Republican who is talking right now about raising taxes is a fool. They are going on national TV and they are saying they are going to raise taxes for a phantom deal that doesn’t even exist,” Labrador said.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
8:09 am
Off topic, but can you believe this???
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20121203/US.Explosives.Investigation/
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
8:11 am
8:09
holy moses – talk about something that could have been a horrible tragedy.
Mick
December 3rd, 2012
8:18 am
The plain truth of the matter is that most small businesses do not make anywhere close to 250k. Think the dry cleaner down the street does or the plumbing shop? No, they don’t or won’t, so 250k is an appropriate number to start with…
bookman parrot
December 3rd, 2012
8:22 am
since you feel undertaxed, you can pay for mine… and the best part is you have converted my to be a Democrat i.e. someone else paying for me
bookman parrot
December 3rd, 2012
8:24 am
sorry jay,
but when income tax .. social security tax,… property tax … sales tax ad valorem tax …. etc add up to more than 50% it is overtaxed. if the gov’t can’t live with that … then they need to spend LESS… repeat LESS spending
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
8:30 am
bookman parrot
December 3rd, 2012
8:22 am
Said it before and I’ll say it again…It is your patriotic duty to pay your taxes.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
8:31 am
Let us rejoice for a moment that Bill O’Reilly seems to have lost a fan, a woman who had the rug pulled out from under her when the rhetorical scoffing of Fox “news” was beaten down by the stark reality of the images of the receding glaciers. Maybe she’ll take others down that road of enlightenment with her.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
8:33 am
“then they need to spend LESS… repeat LESS spending”
I agree…spend less on defense and corporate subsidies first. and judging by the “work calendar” Cantor put out for the House, pay Congress men and women by the hour. That ought to free up a lot of money
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
8:33 am
“but when income tax .. social security tax,… property tax … sales tax ad valorem tax …. etc add up to more than 50% it is overtaxed. if the gov’t can’t live with that … then they need to spend LESS… repeat LESS spending”
you’re mixing your apples and bananas there, parrot-boy.
some of that goes to the state, which has a different remit than the feds.
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
8:35 am
but when income tax ..
The operative word there is obviously “when” given that we are not there yet but will need to be since Republicans insist on putting off repaying their debt until the last minute and end up paying more in interest as a result. Republicans are really bad at math… too.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
8:39 am
Great moments in “news” headlines. Nope, no editorializin’ going on here. No siree.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
8:39 am
If it’s good enough for Gene Autry, it should be good enough for parrot-boy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsOCifTKsLI
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 3rd, 2012
8:40 am
When you’re a full-blown Drapetomaniac and suffer cronic Eleutherophobia…………..there is no such thing as being “undertaxed”.
.
One should seek help immediantly.
.
At the least….and for deceny’s sake……….try not to drag everyone else down with your malady.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
8:42 am
The plain truth of the matter is that most small businesses do not make anywhere close to 250k.
The plain truth of the matter is that the next time some a-hole elected Republican plays the “small business” card in defense of the status quo on that income bracket, someone in the Press Corpse needs to shout “you LIE.”
but they won’t because bias.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
8:43 am
“Drapetomaniac ”
does that have anything to do with Mad Men?
alex
December 3rd, 2012
8:46 am
Nice job picking data from 1980, were there taxes before 1980…? as for US in UK, where was a federal tax distiguished, regardless, the total tax burden may be more appropriate to exam ,where is thsat data, more statistical picking and choosing,, where’s Krugman to make some sense of it all..?
Agree spend less and raise age for medicare and make disability more difficult to get ( I KNOW about many of these), that should help also.
@ corbin if I pay more taxes am I more of a patriot or just a PATRIOT……Sheesh…
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
8:47 am
“as for US in UK, where was a federal tax distiguished”
um, you might want to go back and reread the post. some of those taxes he listed were state … some federal …
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
8:49 am
and raise age for medicare
I haven’t read anything like the whole thread, but that^^ is surely the stupidest thing posted in it.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
8:54 am
Here’s what will happen if right wingers actually go public with their “raise eligibility age for Medicare” mutterings.
The Democrats will correctly call it “privatization.” because that’s what raising the age would be. It would require millions to procure private health insurance between the ages of 65 and whenever the Galtian Overlords decide it’s ok to have Teh Soshulizm for oldsters.
Well, that’s if our President and Senate leader are even remotely progressive in their hearts, and not the 99.44% pure corporate sk@nks they sometimes play on TV.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
9:00 am
Alex,
As long as you are not hiding money and paying your fair share after legal deductions, you are doing what your country asks you to do. If you are squirreling money away off shore then you are a traitor.
oops
December 3rd, 2012
9:00 am
“‘Overtaxed’ Americans a politically useful myth”
nope, not a myth
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
9:01 am
“If you are squirreling money away off shore then you are a traitor.”
word.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
9:02 am
Bottom line…raising the age of Medicare would be political suicide…
Elections Have Consequences
December 3rd, 2012
9:04 am
“we are undertaxed not overtaxed.”
Incredible, isn’t it? 16T in debt, with another 85T in unfunded liabilities, and the problem is not spending, but that taxes simply aren’t high enough. ..
Wonder how Obama’s golf game was yesterday?
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
9:05 am
Check this out…
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50054562/#50054562
alex
December 3rd, 2012
9:05 am
YOU might think it’s stupid, but YOU better prepare for the stupidity, because I’d bet my premiums that will be part of the package and drop the Overload Crap, that get’s no one anywhere, drama garbage.Here’s the problem both sides need to contribute because both sides need to as per most, not all economists: the dismal science, so you can mutter away on one side “Galatian Overlords” or you can talk responsibly…..
US in UK , as I said earlier I got all mixed up, must be in there somewhere, but what about the cherry picking of data,Personnally I would, if asked pay more taxes and YES, I may be asked..But to get an agreement I’m prepared to pay more. Thanks for the correction
straitroad
December 3rd, 2012
9:05 am
Jay, the attitude many of us have toward taxation has more to do with how we see our money being allocated than the amount itself. One can only stand behind an EBT using, new-car driving, steak eating louse so many times before it begins to grate on one’s nerves.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
9:05 am
A climate of crisis has successfully been created over the so-called fiscal “cliff”, it was extorted as a condition for raising the “debt ceiling” last year. The purpose of the climate of crisis was to enable attacks to be made on programs right after the election passed and the actions are subject to minimal electoral pressure (or so the theory goes).
These are the doings of our predatory elite, in their ongoing class war against the people and effort to redistribute wealth from the bottom to the top and to roll back democratic rights.
Peadawg
December 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
“raising the age of Medicare would be political suicide…”
Stop worrying about politics and do what needs to be done. Voters need a reality check.
alex
December 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
If i vacation in Europe ,am I guilty? Auf Wiedersen……
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
9:07 am
You can run from your debt, Republicans, but you cannot hide. You charged your tax cuts and spending sprees throughout the Bush years but no more. Quit whining about your debts and start paying. Or whine and pay if you must.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
9:08 am
“Wonder how Obama’s golf game was yesterday?” Is that all you can come back with? Really? Sweet Jesus in a hand basket….
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
9:09 am
“Incredible, isn’t it? 16T in debt, with another 85T in unfunded liabilities, and the problem is not spending, but that taxes simply aren’t high enough.”
yes.
if you keep cutting your income, then, yes you need to look at getting it back up where it should be so that you can pay for luxuries like two wars and nation-building
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
9:11 am
” Is that all you can come back with? Really? ”
yes.
really.
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
9:14 am
Is that all you can come back with? Really?
I hope you did not expect anything intellectually stimulating from the ones that believe in such fairytales as the “tax cuts pay for themselves” and “it’s the other 47 percent that is the problem” and “the wealthiest are the job creators but they only create jobs when we give them tax cuts” etc.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
9:14 am
We have a ruling elite that now governs by crisis. They govern by fomenting phony crises which allow them to carry out attacks on the people and their rights and their already fragile security (which have already been steadily eroding for 30 yrs) in ways that would otherwise be unthinkable, for ex. by making sure the crisis drums get revved up right after an election – with dutiful assistance from our lapdog press of course, the Erin Burnetts of the world — when these elites can be reasonably sure that their attacks will be subject to minimal democratic scrutiny and control. Pesky little thing, democracy. These elites would just as soon be rid of it altogether, don’t you think?
RB from Gwinnett
December 3rd, 2012
9:15 am
“Think the dry cleaner down the street does or the plumbing shop? No, they don’t or won’t, so 250k is an appropriate number to start with…”
You’re making an often incorrect assumption they only own that single location. Most of them have multiple collection sites and an offsite cleaning facility thes days.
getalife
December 3rd, 2012
9:16 am
Earth to cons, you lost the tax argument by losing the election.
Next issue please.
RB from Gwinnett
December 3rd, 2012
9:17 am
“Said it before and I’ll say it again…It is your patriotic duty to pay your taxes.”
Says the guy who pays 0% and thinks he’s being patriotic.
Retired Vet
December 3rd, 2012
9:18 am
Taxpayer. I am not tied to any party. Do not state to Republicans that they can run but not hide. Your party let Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty die to ensure that your man got elected after they rescued 20 Americans. You are such an American that you let other Americans die for an election. Shame on you!
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
9:19 am
“You’re making an often incorrect assumption they only own that single location. Most of them have multiple collection sites and an offsite cleaning facility thes days.”
and you have the data to back this up?
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
9:21 am
Elections: “Incredible, isn’t it? 16T in debt, with another 85T in unfunded liabilities, and the problem is not spending, but that taxes simply aren’t high enough”
Phrases like “unfunded liabilities” were carefully crafted by hacks sitting at think tanks, little propaganda factories bankrolled by elite interests, places where these ideological foot soldier hacks make a very nice little living churning out white papers and memes and catch phrases that are carefully focus-group tested and trial-ballooned, and then finally placed in your head to be repeated mechanically and to take the place of any real thought just as surely as if they were silicone chips.
And just how well it works we can see right here by how dutifully you hit the notes you’ve been programmed to sound.
Think tanks are incredibly good investments by elites needing to persuade the people to go along with attacks on their, the people’s, interests to the benefit of the elites, attacks they otherwise would never go along with.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
9:23 am
They govern by fomenting phony crises
yeah. See also “unfunded liabilities.”
zomg if I project to the 26th century we’ll have 67 Quadrillion in unfunded liabilities.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
9:24 am
And Welcome @ 9.21, stop stealing my thoughts.
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
9:25 am
Retired Vet
December 3rd, 2012
9:18 am
Taxpayer. I am not tied to any party. Do not state to Republicans that they can run but not hide. Your party let Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty die to ensure that your man got elected after they rescued 20 Americans. You are such an American that you let other Americans die for an election. Shame on you!
+++++++++++++++++++++
That is a bald faced lie and YOU sir are the one who needs to be ashamed for politicizing the deaths of two American mercenaries. I know, you aren’t a Republican, but you just listen to FOX and talk radio all day. It’s the only way your head would be filled with that lie for you to repeat. Again I say, Shame on YOU.
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
9:28 am
Stop worrying about politics and do what needs to be done.
Why do we “need” (your term) to privatize health insurance for people over the age of 65, Peadawg?
Why do people who otherwise would be ok with single payer health insurance (if memory serves, that included you, right?) go wobbly at the prospect of maintaining the de facto single-payer plan we *already* have in place?
Mick
December 3rd, 2012
9:28 am
rb
Case in point: Joe the plumber, whose name wan’t really joe and not a licensed plumber. After all expenses, if a plumbing shop makes over a 250k profit, it’s a damn good year. The mom & pop cleaners is not a franchise. When you start bunching in koch industries, now the small business guise is skewed. 250K in a year? I’d love to see that in my life just once…
stands for decibels
December 3rd, 2012
9:31 am
After all expenses, if a plumbing shop makes over a 250k profit, it’s a damn good year.
If that revenue isn’t plowed back into the business, if that business owner actually is pocketing an income over 250K, it is ridiculous to imagine that it’s going to somehow “hurt the small businessman” by taxing the amount over 250K that’s been pocketed by a modestly higher rate.
That we could even have this conversation in a forum where cutting people’s Medicare (and if you want to believe some of the truly stupid, Social Freaking Security) benefits to “balance” this modest tax increase, speaks volumes about how effed up this nation has become, bought and sold to thieving, profit-based interests.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
9:33 am
Any time decibels!
RB from Gwinnett
December 3rd, 2012
9:34 am
“and you have the data to back this up?”
If your dry leaner doesn’t have a cleaning machine on site, there’s your data.
Corbin Sharpe. Baby Boomer leech...and earned it!
December 3rd, 2012
9:36 am
RB,
You’re a hoot…
alex
December 3rd, 2012
9:37 am
Shame,shame, now to the corner..
@ Getalife, earth says the House writes the checks, better understand that and the president does as Do the Repubs who very well understand ( I HOPE) that the recent election has significant implications and they better learn to be less histrionic about taxes, etc.
Mick , if you get off this blog, you may get a chaance, if you sit around and wish–won’t happen, good luck !
RB from Gwinnett
December 3rd, 2012
9:38 am
Mick, no argument on the individual plumber with one truck, but there aren’t many jobs he’s doing for less than $100 and if he works 220 days a year, he’s starting to push it on the sales side. More than likely he’s claiming expenses to the point he’s showing very little income at all.
USinUK - not very ladylike (and former Girl Scout)
December 3rd, 2012
9:38 am
RB – “If your dry leaner doesn’t have a cleaning machine on site, there’s your data.”
in other words, you can’t back up your post.
thanks.
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
Thanks for stepping in, Fred, while I was busy checking my portfolio. The so-called “Retired Vet” clearly cannot remember how many lost their lives needlessly in Bush’s Iraq invasion, for openers. Now pay your taxes, con. And if you do not want to pay as much in taxes in the future, do not run up the charge card so high.
Mick
December 3rd, 2012
9:45 am
**If your dry leaner doesn’t have a cleaning machine on site, there’s your data.”**
Then it’s also probably not a “small” business…
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
9:45 am
I think those hedge fund managers that rake in one billion in a year also meet the Republican definition of a small business. Sounds like the definition might need a little revising.
Peadawg
December 3rd, 2012
9:46 am
“Why do we “need” (your term) to privatize health insurance for people over the age of 65, Peadawg?”
Where did I mention privatizing?
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
9:46 am
RB — “Mick, no argument on the individual plumber with one truck, but there aren’t many jobs he’s doing for less than $100 and if he works 220 days a year, he’s starting to push it on the sales side. More than likely he’s claiming expenses to the point he’s showing very little income at all.”
Assuming that gross of $220K is accurate, I agree, the plumber’s still going to have plenty of deductible business expenses. His taxable income’s going to be considerably less than that $220K figure.
And even if he *does* happen to go over $250K taxable, he’s only going to incur the increased tax rate on the portion of his taxable income that *exceeds* $250K that year. It’s not like the whole nut gets hit with an increased rate.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
Imagine, the poor struggling small businessman who clears $250k a year.
Poor guy, laboring to put food on the table for his children, who really know the meaning of fear.
And then — injustice of all injustices — after each full year of his labors he has to suffer the indignity of having to tell his tax man to scrounge and to come up with another few thousand measly greenbacks to appease those insatiable, wild and reckless spendthrift Feds.
Why, he might just have to consider slowing down those plans for that extra vacation home, or that sweet little German export auto he’s been promising junior when he turns 16.
Such a cruel old life.
St Simons - aboriginal BOOTAKOOK 2014
December 3rd, 2012
9:48 am
It IS your duty to pay your taxes, it is the agreement you make for
the protection & benefits of being an American citizen.
If you don’t wanna pay, fine. In one of the most humorous & in-your-face
moments of the year, the gubmint is putting passports on sale.
The con paradise of Somalia is calling youuuu.
Don’t bitch about it. DO something cons. Renounce your citizenship.
Erwin's cat
December 3rd, 2012
9:49 am
looks like the top tiers have been paying their “fair share” all long eh?
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
9:49 am
Republicans will not shirk their fiscal responsibility any longer. They will pay their taxes. They will moan and groan about it. Ear plug sales will skyrocket. Ear plugs are cheap though so it’s okay.
getalife
December 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
You lost the tax argument when you lost the election.
Period.
Tundra Dude
December 3rd, 2012
9:53 am
There will be no Sheets before it’s time….
Fred ™
December 3rd, 2012
9:53 am
Welcome to the Occupation
December 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
Imagine, the poor struggling small businessman who clears $250k a year.
Poor guy, laboring to put food on the table for his children, who really know the meaning of fear.
And then — injustice of all injustices — after each full year of his labors he has to suffer the indignity of having to tell his tax man to scrounge and to come up with another few thousand measly greenbacks to appease those insatiable, wild and reckless spendthrift Feds.
Why, he might just have to consider slowing down those plans for that extra vacation home, or that sweet little German export auto he’s been promising junior when he turns 16.
Such a cruel old life.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I drive a ‘98 dodge ram and can’t afford to go on vacation much less own a vacation house. I would bet the house I do live in is smaller than many who post here. $250,000 doesn’t go as far as you seem to think. About the ONLY thing you got right was no fear of putting food on the table.
TaxPayer
December 3rd, 2012
9:54 am
Casino magnate Sheldon Adelson vowed to spend as much as $100 million to defeat President Barack Obama and help the GOP take control of Congress. According to two GOP fundraisers with close ties to the Las Vegas billionaire, he made good on that promise — and then some. Adelson ultimately upped the ante, spending closer to a previously unreported $150 million, the fundraisers said.
The loser would have fared better just paying his taxes. Now he has to still pay the taxes in addition to losing all that money on a failed bet. He should have known better than to trust in cons like Karl Rove, et al.
Mick
December 3rd, 2012
9:54 am
**You lost the tax argument when you lost the election.
Period.**
I second that motion…
Doggone/GA
December 3rd, 2012
9:55 am
“If your dry leaner doesn’t have a cleaning machine on site, there’s your data.”
Mine does
alex
December 3rd, 2012
9:55 am
@ wellcome, jealous?……YES you are
@ JHM: I don’t think people understand Marginal tax rate, thanks and good blog.. Really to most people much ado about nothing>
Joe Hussein Mama
December 3rd, 2012
9:57 am
TaxPayer — “The loser would have fared better just paying his taxes. Now he has to still pay the taxes in addition to losing all that money on a failed bet.”
I love how Adelson, who made his fortune in casinos and gambling, made a gigantic freakin’ bet like that and lost himself.
Just goes to show you, Lady Luck is truly a B!tch Goddess.
Drudge
December 3rd, 2012
9:58 am
Let’s take everything they have! The Government is in control now.
Doggone/GA
December 3rd, 2012
9:59 am
“$250,000 doesn’t go as far as you seem to think”
Personally, I would say it goes 5 times as far as the $50,000 *I* earn