‘Overtaxed’ Americans a politically useful myth
Earlier this week, an analysis by The New York Times confirmed once more a conclusion posted repeatedly on this blog:
Contrary to the popular image of Americans as overtaxed to within an inch of our economic lives, citizens of this country in almost every economic group pay a significantly smaller share of their income in taxes — state, local and federal — than they did 30 years ago.
The sole exception:
“Lower-income households, however, saved little or nothing. Many pay no federal income taxes, but they do pay a range of other levies, like federal payroll taxes, state sales taxes and local property taxes. Only about half of taxpaying households with incomes below $25,000 paid less in 2010.”
(An interactive and much more extensive version of the chart above is available here.)
Any honest analysis of our current financial situation must account for this basic, fundamental fact. By comparison with other major industrial countries, and by comparison with our own history, we are undertaxed not overtaxed. Politicians buy votes just as easily by promising endless and repeated tax cuts as by promising new spending programs, and after some three decades of such policies, we are shocked to find ourselves increasingly in debt?
– Jay Bookman
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999 comments Add your comment
barking frog
December 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm
Keep Up
They are on the way. Please wait on the doorstep as i don’t
know the arrival time and the delivery service requires a
signature and will not leave the truck or wait.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
2:37 pm
keep
Send the self addressed envelope with postage prepaid and I will be happy to LOL
Don’t be surprised when it comes back attached to a brick though
barking frog
December 2nd, 2012
2:38 pm
Jay Bookman-we are shocked to find ourselves increasingly in debt?
…………………………………………………………..
I am not shocked but i am awed.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
2:39 pm
Get, if I advertise on Fox, I have to add in: Obama will only send you a plastic $1 coin, I’ll get you the doomsday survivable $1 Susan B Anthony coin.
barking frog
December 2nd, 2012
2:42 pm
Keep
calling the coin a ’susie’ might make it sell better..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
Frog, well if I add that it will have an obedient vagina…. it will be a best seller.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
2:46 pm
If you knew Susie (like I know Susie)
barking frog
December 2nd, 2012
2:48 pm
Keep
We have a winnah….
barking frog
December 2nd, 2012
2:49 pm
Keep
Repubs will gobble it up….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
2:53 pm
Frog, well if I add that it will have an obedient vagina…. it will be a best seller.
Will it have the Todd Akin approved pregnancy preventing anti rape chaff?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
3:34 pm
Kam, well that would be an available upgrade if you order now…
JamVet
December 2nd, 2012
4:04 pm
Well gang, I made it back from my whirlwind Indy trip.
The outcome of the game was not what I wanted (to say the least!), but otherwise it was a great trip.
And be it ever so humble, it’s good to be home…
TM
December 2nd, 2012
4:04 pm
Are we there yet??
• Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
• A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
• Abolition of all right of inheritance.
• Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
• Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
• Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
• Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing• into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
• Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
• Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
• Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
4:11 pm
“Are we there yet??”
Someone was REALLY, REALLY bored to be prompted to post THAT drivel
indigo
December 2nd, 2012
4:13 pm
Brosephus – 1:10
I will address your comment as you’re the only one here who seems to have a reasonable amount of intelligence.
Those military officers I referenced are men with advanced college degrees who have spent, individually, more than 30 years as career officers. I must believe they know what’s good and not good for the military. If they say gays should not serve openly, I can’t just airly dismiss them. To do so would put me in the same boat as those here who casually dismiss the global warming warnings of world class climatologists as nothing more than liberal propaganda.
As long as we have our people getting wounded and killed in Afghanistan, we shouldn’t be engaging is social experiments just to be politically correct. I value the lives of our soldiers more than correctness.
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
4:18 pm
“I must believe they know what’s good and not good for the military”
Actually, no you DON’T have to believe that. THEY aren’t the ones going to be in the trenches with whomever gets through basic training. It’s the men (and WOMEN) in the field who will be doing that. THEY are the ones that you should believe.
So here’s the question: how much damage has been done by replealing DADT?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
4:33 pm
Indigo
That would be the same as saying Police Chiefs should be able to decide what is best for a police dept.
Sorry. that is homophobic and descrimintory (which by the way is against the law in most places)
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
4:36 pm
Indigo
read up on this guy
Leonard P. Matlovich
getalife
December 2nd, 2012
4:47 pm
“‘President’s Idea of a Negotiation Is Roll Over and Do What I Ask’…” crybaby.
Um, yeah he won.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
4:48 pm
get
The repugs idea of Negotiation is bend over and we’ll do you again
josef
December 2nd, 2012
4:49 pm
Well, howdy doodie…
So…what’s up and who’s here….
CLASS
Questions for today. Which was the first country to recognize the United States of America? Which treaty is the longest standing and unbroken in United States History?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
4:50 pm
I will address your comment as you’re the only one here who seems to have a reasonable amount of intelligence.
well there is your first mistake. You presumed to have even a scintilla of intelligence to be able to judge the intelligence of other posters based on your inability to defend your nonsense and buffoonery. How many clowns are with you in that car?
TM
December 2nd, 2012
4:51 pm
“Um, yeah he won.”
So did my representative in Congress who said he would not raise taxes
josef
December 2nd, 2012
4:52 pm
Common Sense:
“Leonard P. Matlovich?”
Oh, I’d say somebody that every school child should be learning about in High School American history in the Pantheon of great Americans with chutzpah…
josef
December 2nd, 2012
4:55 pm
GOOD FIGHT
I wish I could buy Indigo for what he’s worth and sell him for what he thinks he’s worth…I could retire tomorrow…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
5:03 pm
josef, we could split it and both of us could retire with island accounts
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:03 pm
joef
You’ll never retire UnMentionable would kill you the first day
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:04 pm
josef
I left out your s
RF
December 2nd, 2012
5:04 pm
“As long as we have our people getting wounded and killed in Afghanistan, we shouldn’t be engaging is social experiments just to be politically correct. I value the lives of our soldiers more than correctness”
Social experiments??? To let a person be accepted as a whole human being, willing to serve and DIE if necessary regardless of lifestyle choice is now a social EXPERIMENT?? Good to know all us law-abiding, tax paying, willing to die for our country gay folks are now an “experiment.” Is it so hard to believe that people from all groups in our society can be, in point of fact, PATRIOTIC Americans?!!
Geez, the ignorance is in high gear with that indigo.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:05 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Ain’t that the truth!
COMMON SENSE
You been talking to him… ?
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:06 pm
COMMON SENSE
Looks like Indigo’s been to happy hour at the same bar as the Wa-do!
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:07 pm
COMMON SENSE
Well, it won’t be the first time my s has been left out…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:09 pm
josef
When my dad retired he basically sat on his ass for a month (he was 48) Mom told him to get your butt a job before I HAVE to kill you.
Tough spouse but he did what she said LOL
UnMentionable will put you to hard labor if you mess up and retire
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:12 pm
josef
I do wonder if Indigo was ever in the military and while drunk wandered into the wrong bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlGclIZV5JQ
RF
December 2nd, 2012
5:12 pm
“His tombstone, meant to be a memorial to all gay veterans, does not bear his name. It reads, “When I was in the military, they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one.”
So you can be given the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star…but don’t ya dare admit you’re gay….
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:13 pm
COMMON
When Unmentionable retired he said now he could do some of the things he always wanted to do. So, going on two years now, I asked him when he was going to get off his sorry ass and do some of those things. He says, “I am. I’m laying around all day watching old movies on teevee and reading spy novels…leave me be!”
guy
December 2nd, 2012
5:14 pm
jamVet,
Blame the loss of your team on Republicans too. They caused it! Call holder and have the other team arrested Glad you arrived back ok!
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:14 pm
RF
yep, a hero to many and a pariah to many also.
Sad state of affairs in my mind
getalife
December 2nd, 2012
5:15 pm
tm,
Thumped.
Twice.
Stay the course and ignore the majority.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:16 pm
josef
He didn’t set a timetable to get past his first 2 items on his bucket list did he?
TM
December 2nd, 2012
5:22 pm
Get he may have the office but he ain’t got the house until then he ain’t the lord and savior.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:23 pm
RF
Thanks for posting that epitaph…says it all…
COMMON
I will say this…there’s some good eats coming out of the kitchen these days as he perfects all those recipes and tries out new ones…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:23 pm
TM
how is the job creation record going in the House?
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:24 pm
COMMON
Loved that scene in that movie…
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
5:25 pm
“until then he ain’t the lord and savior.”
You know, if you’re looking for a “lord and savior” there’s a perfectly good one just waiting for you. And HE doesn’t NEED “the house”
josef
December 2nd, 2012
5:26 pm
DOGGONE
And his birthday is coming up….!
TM
December 2nd, 2012
5:28 pm
Common–about as good as your $900 billion stimulus what did that amount to 400K a job?
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
5:30 pm
“And his birthday is coming up….!”
Indeed!
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
5:31 pm
“did that amount to 400K a job?”
When you have to lie to make a point, your point gets lost in the lie
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:34 pm
TM
The House attached all kinds of BS riders to bills and called the jobs bills. Do soem research and get back to us on it.
Ask ol Mitch what his focus was after Obama was elected. Ask Boehnor why he got TPed as the speaker.
I agree the bailouts and stimulus were misapplied, but with the economy in freefall SOMETHING had to be done
getalife
December 2nd, 2012
5:34 pm
tm,
You cons chose to think of him as the Messiah and then crucified him.
He is just a politician silly..
TM
December 2nd, 2012
5:35 pm
Dog- you got a better figure show me the number of jobs and divide by 900 billion, You may have forgot but they took down the web site when it became an embarrassment.
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
5:37 pm
“Dog- you got a better figure show me the number of jobs and divide by 900 billion”
You might check and see how much of that money was not allocated to jobs before you bring out your lies.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:37 pm
TM
there were many road improvement jobs that were and continue to be paid out of the stimulus fund.
Look at the states and do some research for goodness sakes
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
5:38 pm
Them Republican math geniuses…. when you build a bridge, of course all cost is attributed to labor.
Its a wonder that they claim to be the party of business when apparently they don’t understand business.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:40 pm
keep
It’s only the party of small businesses but CEO bonuses.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
5:41 pm
You may have forgot but they took down the web site when it became an embarrassment.
Really, http://www.recovery.gov seems to be operational.
TM
December 2nd, 2012
5:41 pm
Common- you agree that the bailout and stimulus was misapplied and I suppose to give more money to these jokers??? ‘Where is your common sense???
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
5:42 pm
Common, if them CEOs can build bridges and infrastructure with no material or other costs, only labor, they deserve a bonus!
John Ellison
December 2nd, 2012
5:46 pm
The are two problems with this country…the Republican Party and the Democrat Party. The politicians in both parties are more concerned with buying power and prestige from special interest groups (using our money) than solving the nation’s problems.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:47 pm
TM
until Congress decides to work WITH the President and Senate instead of doing EVERYTHING in their power to block any and all legislation from the Democrat side. Yes I think the President needs to keep doing hwat he decides to stimulate the economy.
You keep electing the Grover deciples and what you get is a case of red ass from all the chafing
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
5:49 pm
“The politicians in both parties are more concerned with buying power and prestige from special interest groups (using our money) than solving the nation’s problems”
Then do you not think the VOTERS shoujld bear some (or most) of that blame? After all, those politicians wouldn’t even be there if they voters hadn’t put them there.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 2nd, 2012
5:49 pm
Well, if you don’t beleive there’s a God just take a look at how the Nebraska Cornholers give up 70 points to Wisconsin yesterday and still will get $5 million for playing GA in the Capital One Bowl on Jan. 1. I’d sure love to be able to do a lousy job and get the biggest bonus out there.
David
December 2nd, 2012
5:50 pm
There are some whoppers being told on this blog.
1) Conservatives always say they are taxed too much. Actually they say we are taxes enough already. A far cry from your statement.
2) Republicans only want to lower taxes on the rich. Without the Bush tax cuts (he was a Republican) 47% would not be legally avoiding income taxes. Republicans lowered taxes on a huge portion of the poor in the USA.
3)People earning less than $25,000 pay 8% in payroll taxes (actually it is 7.65%) which is twice as much as the highest tax bracket. On the face of it this seems to be true but then you have to remember that the earned income credit is designed to refund the payroll taxes to the working poor. People earning lss than $25,000 may pay no payroll taxes and 0% is certainly not twice the rate the highest bracket pays.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:50 pm
keep
didn’t you know they materials just majically appeared on the jobsite.
Geesh they used the steel and concrete pooping unicorns.
JamVet
December 2nd, 2012
5:50 pm
LOL, guy. And thanks.
Now I know what Mitt Romney et al felt like on November 6th!
Ouch…
RF
December 2nd, 2012
5:53 pm
Common: so far, the only response the repubs have given to the proprosal sent by the WH, “we don’t like it so we’re going to sit here and pout.” So far, not ONE single word of what their proposal for avoiding the fiscal cliff would be. They’ve thrown out a lot of rhetoric, but when will they submit a counter proposal so the two sides can begin debating? They can’t even get their fractured groups together long enough to submit a debatable counter-proposal. And we wonder why they got beat in November…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
5:55 pm
RF
you may wonder why they got beat but I don’t have any doubt
RF
December 2nd, 2012
5:56 pm
“People earning lss than $25,000 may pay no payroll taxes and 0% is certainly not twice the rate the highest bracket pays.”
Key word there- MAY. Prove that, if you can. Anyone officially on the payroll has to pay the payroll tax unless they’re working as an independent contractor on a 1099. Then they have to pay it on their own at the end of the year. Either way, they pay it.
Those “working” and not on any payroll aren’t exactly getting a sweetheart deal. Try living on 25k or less and let us know how “easy” it is.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
6:00 pm
Most construction workers these days(non union) make much less than $25,000 (12.50 per hour)
Kinda hard to support a family on that.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
6:01 pm
Actually they say we are taxes enough already.
Actually, many here say that their money is confiscated from them at gunpoint.
A far cry from your statement.
David
December 2nd, 2012
6:04 pm
I am amused when people claim to remember the higher tax rates of the past but always fail to mention the greater deductions of the past. Just to set the record straight the taxable income of the graphs posted by Jay do not represent the same real income. Real income would have been higher in 1980.
RF
December 2nd, 2012
6:06 pm
“So, going on two years now, I asked him when he was going to get off his sorry ass and do some of those things.”
Josef: he didn’t say WHEN he would do those things….
Oh to have that option!
RF
December 2nd, 2012
6:07 pm
“Real income would have been higher in 1980.”
So what deductions did they have in 1980 that they don’t have now?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
6:08 pm
I remember when Ronald Reagan did away with the interest deduction on CC’s while I was getting married and trying to furnish a house.
So, no the income in the 80’s was depleted somewhat as a result of some of those actions.
Doggone/GA
December 2nd, 2012
6:09 pm
“So what deductions did they have in 1980 that they don’t have now?”
Credit card interest for one.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:10 pm
RF
Ah! Am I ever looking forward to THAT day! From the looks of things over the weekend, it may be sooner than planned… fingers crossed…
getalife
December 2nd, 2012
6:11 pm
Retirement is over rated.
Keep working.
The doomers say it all ends this month but they are wrong.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:11 pm
I don’t understand a tenth of what y’all are talking about, but I do know I can buy a lot more stuff than I could in 1980, so I’m not complaining…
Old Goober
December 2nd, 2012
6:11 pm
I am amused when people claim to remember the higher tax rates of the past but always fail to mention the greater deductions of the past.
I recall when we could deduct all consumer interest, including interest paid to credit card companies and car loan companies, plus sales taxes paid. And medical deductions weren’t subject to that 7.5% AGI floor. When Congress needed more money back then, it did not take any pity whatsoever on the middle class, which absorbed most of the burden of having these deductions removed.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:15 pm
getalife
Did you see this one?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/world/europe/mayan-end-of-world-stirs-panic-in-russia-and-elsewhere.html?_r=0
RF
December 2nd, 2012
6:17 pm
“When Congress needed more money back then, it did not take any pity whatsoever on the middle class, which absorbed most of the burden of having these deductions removed”
And so far, all the republicans have put forward to avoid the fiscal “cliff” is closing loopholes and limiting deductions. Why do I think their plan will end up screwing the middle class again?
TaxPayer
December 2nd, 2012
6:17 pm
If Republicans want a country where they can choose if and when to pay taxes as well as how much they feel like paying then go for it. Find yourselves an island to invade or occupy or even build your own from scratch. If you stay here in these 50 states though, you’ll pay for the privilege just like the rest of us by forking over a percentage of what you make. And if you don’t like those options then elect yourself another Republican-controlled Congress with a Bush at the helm and start passing those tax cuts and spending bills again. See where that gets you.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
6:19 pm
I am amused by people who make comparisons to real income of the past, but always fail to mention fully funded retirement plans and company paid for health insurance which enabled workers to have more money to spend.
Soothsayer
December 2nd, 2012
6:20 pm
How much tax would you pay if all of the Bush tax cuts expire? How about if they expire on those making $250,000.00 a year or more? Use this calculator to find out. Enter your income and I recommend clicking on the “Detailed Questions” (click the arrow) to enter you mortgage Interest, property taxes et cetera. When you are finished click “Calculate My Income Tax” at the bottom. If you mess up or forgot something, you can start over. It’s a little easier to understand the second time around anyhow.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
6:20 pm
josef
It seems as if the Russians are close to the republicans when they both think the end of the world is near
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:23 pm
COMMON
Yeah, and howcome OBAMA hasn’t addressed this, hunh? Temme…
getalife
December 2nd, 2012
6:26 pm
josef,
NASA said calm down, it is bs.
getalife
December 2nd, 2012
6:28 pm
Common,
I thought that too.
Old white people
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:29 pm
getalife
Kinda sad when governmental agencies feel compelled to say something, eh?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 2nd, 2012
6:32 pm
josef, don’t be so dense. You know the President is a secret Mayan.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:37 pm
GOOD FIGHT
Are the Mayans Muslims? Hmmmmm….
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
6:40 pm
Obama — the Mayan Muslim Marxist!
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
6:44 pm
Kam
He is the Mulatto Mayan Muslim Marxist
If you want to go there
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 2nd, 2012
6:46 pm
I’m thinking the rates on those already paying 80% or so of the taxes should be increased over ten years. Also, I like Naders idea to stop the casino of Wall Street by levying a 3% or so tax on all stock, derviative, and similar transactions…motive long term investments over time which is what the market was originally for…Cap gains and dividends need to be left off the table…be a big problem..
IMO, along with above, we need to disallow any new spending until we get to a measured point of accomplishment..relative to spending, borrowing and revenue increases…the problem with successful revenue increases in the past 40 years is that we spent them as fast as my kid spends on apple apps..
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:46 pm
Well, now we know…and here’s the long form of the birth certificate to prove it…
http://mayan-calendar.com/images/ancient/palenque_westpanel.jpg
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
December 2nd, 2012
6:48 pm
Michelle’s Mulatto Mayan Muslim Marxist
Goin’ there again.
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:51 pm
Kinda makes you wonder what FNM will be that night, eh?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 2nd, 2012
6:52 pm
Kam
josef
December 2nd, 2012
6:53 pm
Michelle’s Mediocre Mulatto Mayan Muslim Marxist ?????