‘Overtaxed’ Americans a politically useful myth
Earlier this week, an analysis by The New York Times confirmed once more a conclusion posted repeatedly on this blog:
Contrary to the popular image of Americans as overtaxed to within an inch of our economic lives, citizens of this country in almost every economic group pay a significantly smaller share of their income in taxes — state, local and federal — than they did 30 years ago.
The sole exception:
“Lower-income households, however, saved little or nothing. Many pay no federal income taxes, but they do pay a range of other levies, like federal payroll taxes, state sales taxes and local property taxes. Only about half of taxpaying households with incomes below $25,000 paid less in 2010.”
(An interactive and much more extensive version of the chart above is available here.)
Any honest analysis of our current financial situation must account for this basic, fundamental fact. By comparison with other major industrial countries, and by comparison with our own history, we are undertaxed not overtaxed. Politicians buy votes just as easily by promising endless and repeated tax cuts as by promising new spending programs, and after some three decades of such policies, we are shocked to find ourselves increasingly in debt?
– Jay Bookman
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999 comments Add your comment
Get Real
December 1st, 2012
12:24 pm
Indigo….no blinders at all; I understand the optics you mention are good for Obama and bad for Republicans. My point is I believe Obama sympathy is artificial but he does make a great speech…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
12:25 pm
Get Real
I think it is a combination of several things. Many awaited a Presidential change, others waited to see if the economy improved(hard to do without demand).
Some looked to imported products as a source for goods.
Many expanded the demand on their current employees.
Bottom line is very few looked LOCAL as the way to expand their business and rebuild it from the ground up.
Many small businesses in the past had the opinion that my house is paid for, my retirement is set so I will keep my loyal employees on as long as I can since I don’t need all the cash I did before.
Now CEO’s make Millions while the employees take a pay CUT.
Those paycuts and downsizing have wrecked the economy as much as the tax cuts IMO
Oscar
December 1st, 2012
12:25 pm
Cons always talk about reducing spending, but never are specific on what they would cut.
And they want to cut taxes, but never say how low to cut them
Long on demagoguery’s, but short on specifics.
Rafe Hollister
December 1st, 2012
12:27 pm
The argument in favor of such stimulus? The tax measures, at least, could minimize the drag on the economy from Mr. Obama’s proposed tax increases on the wealthy.
http://news.yahoo.com/why-obama-pushing-stimulus-fiscal-cliff-deal-video-033547060.html
Typical of Obama, deliberately shoots himself in the foot so he can use his new Superman Bandaid.
TaxPayer
December 1st, 2012
12:28 pm
If you cons did not want to get stuck with the debt, you should have implemented spending cuts to offset your tax cuts that you implemented in 2001 and 2003. Instead, you cons implemented spending hikes in addition to tax cuts with the hope that you would ultimately be able to point a finger at your own mess and proclaim that the only way to fix your own mess is to cut the federal government, except for the war machine. It’s not working, cons. You will pay your bills–not your children and grandchildren. Of course you will be free to whine while paying. That much you can have free of charge.
Get Real
December 1st, 2012
12:28 pm
Jay….they are also hoarding cash because they do not know what to expect out of this president. You can disagree all you want but that is a huge piece of the puzzle….
Get Real
December 1st, 2012
12:32 pm
Oscar….agreed, Congress should pride more detailed specifics regrading revenue increases as well as spending cuts. They do not do a very good job of driving the discussion….
Welcome to the Occupation
December 1st, 2012
12:35 pm
Get Real: “Spare me the liberal drivel, the problem is spending”
The only spending problem we have is the bloated military budget and the astronomical unneeded costs of our disastrously inefficient privatized health care system. And besides, what does “liberal” have to do with anything? The nominal “liberals”, the Democrats, are the only party of sound fiscal policy in this country, the Republicans since Reagan have been wildly extravagant spenders.
Purpose of the US Democratic party: to rein in and correct for Republican overspending.
JohnnyReb
December 1st, 2012
12:35 pm
As long as Obama wants to raise the tax rates on the rich so he can pay off peoples mortgage, forgivie student loans, have another Stimulus spending, and ask for authority to raise the debt limit at will, there won’t be any serious discussions on raising revenues.
If Moonbats were serious about avoiding the cliff, they would put Conservative bashing aside long enough to send Barry a message to get real.
Jay
December 1st, 2012
12:36 pm
Get Real, is this presidential-inspired uncertainty also why investors in Europe and Asia are investing even less in their own domestic economies than are US investors here? Is that why they’re in fact more likely to invest here than in their own local industries? Is that why the US economy has recovered significantly faster than almost anywhere else?
ad
December 1st, 2012
12:36 pm
I’m always amazed to see people keep dragging up the JFK lowered taxes and tax income increased, so therefore, lowering taxes will increase tax income arguement. If you really believed that to be true, then you’d have to believe that cutting taxes to 0% would yield the maximum in taxes (which is just as dumb as saying 100% would work).
Redneck Convert (R--and ;proud of it)
December 1st, 2012
12:39 pm
Well, they took almost 200 bucks out of my paycheck and I only got $5,300 back last year, thanks to that special secret earned income thingie my accountant Bubba uses. I say we’re way over-taxed!
Have a good income everybody and pray we don’t go over that cliff next month. I don’t know how I’ll live if they take more out of my paycheck.
Get Real
December 1st, 2012
12:40 pm
US recovery has been slowed by Obama policies, Europe is experiencing the realities of socialized democracies…..
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
12:40 pm
RC
You can always lose a couple of cases a week at Bubba’s
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
12:42 pm
Get Real
Please cite the Obama policies that have slowed the US economy
ad
December 1st, 2012
12:42 pm
Why can’t we grow our economy more like those non-European countries, like China?
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
12:43 pm
ad
the environment, child labor laws, etc. kinda preclude that
JohnnyReb
December 1st, 2012
12:45 pm
I employed the services of an independent business man yesterday. He voiced his disgust with the taxes he already pays and the current discussions. His answer – cheat. He says going forward he intends to cheat on his taxes. I expect he will be joined by milliions who in the past tried to be at least comfortably honest on their tax returns.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
12:49 pm
JR
So you are saying you know someone who has the intent to break the law.
Have you reported it?
If not you are just as guilty.
I may need to call the IRS so they can send in the storm troopers on you.
St Simons - he-ne-ha BOOTAKOOK 2014
December 1st, 2012
12:53 pm
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35sz1c/
they’re laughing at whoever still believes
the supplyside trickle down crap.
really man, jokes over. give it up.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 1st, 2012
12:54 pm
My oh my…. tax cheaters. Why I know that no one ever cheated on their taxes before Obama was elected.
JohnnyReb
December 1st, 2012
12:55 pm
Common Sense – I think I will join him.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
12:56 pm
JR
why do I think that won’t be the first time
Wilbur
December 1st, 2012
12:56 pm
Obama ran on a “balanced approach:” to fixing the deficit and passing the fiscal cliff but Obama and his leftist toadies like Bookman now only want MO’ Taxes. Can you say liar?
It’s like Benghazi. Before the election all we heard from Obama is that we need to wait to get all the facts. Now they want to “move on”.
This man and his acolytes are a disaster for America.
larry
December 1st, 2012
1:00 pm
To those who are wanting to cheat on their taxes, how do you know that there isn’t anyone from the IRS who posts on this blog.
They can find out who you are.
Get Real
December 1st, 2012
1:01 pm
Enjoyed the conversation folks, off to play golf and watch college football….have a great weekend
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
1:02 pm
Get Real
Have a great round
Get Real
December 1st, 2012
1:03 pm
Common Sense…..fairways and greens…..
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 1st, 2012
1:05 pm
larry, you know they never watch this blog…the IRS and FBI always monitor Kyle’s. That’s where the real loons reside…they just drop by here.
DannyX
December 1st, 2012
1:05 pm
“Benghazi”
For those of you playing the Benghazi drinking game…drink up.
47% pay other taxes
December 1st, 2012
1:08 pm
Yes, we realize the 47% that are on government entitlement/assistance/welfare pay taxes such as sales tax, gas tax etc…WE ALL PAY THOSE TAXES AND THERE’S NO WAY NOT TO. What they don’t pay is income tax, property tax since most are renters or living in government housing.
53% cannot continue to pay for the other 47% AND support a government that does not know how to say ‘no’ to spending programs.
Oscar
December 1st, 2012
1:13 pm
Which spending programs do you want to cut and by how much.
Just saying cut spending is not very helpful.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 1st, 2012
1:17 pm
Wilbur: “Obama ran on a “balanced approach:” to fixing the deficit and passing the fiscal cliff but Obama and his leftist toadies like Bookman now only want MO’ Taxes. Can you say liar?”
Are you delusional? What the hell are you even talking about? If there was a single policy objective that was prominent throughout the Obama campaign it was that there had to be “balance” and that “balance” meant raising to marginal tax rates! It was never anything less than completely out in front the entire time.
DannyX
December 1st, 2012
1:18 pm
47% pay other taxes, wow your hate for Ronald Reagan is intense.
When Reagan signed the Earned Income Tax Credit into law he called it “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” Those are fighting words these days for Republicans.
So now that conservatives have totally disowned Reagan and destroyed the Reagan myth, who are you now using as an example of a Republican that accomplished anything that represents your conservative values? Are there any?
Oscar
December 1st, 2012
1:21 pm
Conservative values are really very simple. Lower my taxes and raise everyone else’s. And cut out welfare to poor people.
St Simons - he-ne-ha BOOTAKOOK 2014
December 1st, 2012
1:27 pm
think about it. If tax cuts payed for themselves, we’d all be drinkin
that sweet bubble-up and eatin that rainbow stew right now.
buuuut….no.
How long you gonna let em run this scam on you, cons?
and almost as bad – is that ‘da debt, da deficit, oh lordy’ crap.
See, the 2% need some mouthpieces to screech ‘don’t print
more money’ so the monay they hoarded won’t de-value.
So like chickens rootin for Colonel Sanders, you cons listen
to the AM radio and repeat it verbatim, even though it is the
most effective way to combat the hoarders.
Print it. Print it 24/7.
Print til there’s no more ink or paper.
Run the damn wheels off the presses.
This is the 21st century. We’re not on a metallic standard anymore.
The money that has Value to America in a Depression is circulating $$,
not hoarded money.
They’re trying to hurt you. Hurt em back. Unless you’re a masochist.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
1:27 pm
Good piece on corporate welfare waste in the New York Times today.
Michael
December 1st, 2012
1:40 pm
One strategy is to let the Bush tax cuts expire. Then, they can say they did not raise taxes, they just let a temporary tax cut expire. Then, they can give a middle income tax cut and take credit for cutting taxes for the majority of Americans. This can be done in January, so the impact will be limited.
I think they have a pretty good idea of what has to be done, but they want to be able to explain it to their base in terms favorable to those in office.
Defense will be cut – it’s only a question of how much. Watch Colorado – if they can reduce the number of inmates based on their new law, they will reduce government spending. That could start a big trend for states and the feds, since we have such a disproportionate number of inmates in this country.
So, cut defense spending and cut the cost of incarcerating so many Americans.
By the way, when you pay rent, a portion is passed through to the county as real estate tax. Everybody in America that occupies housing pays real estate tax.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
1:44 pm
The New York Times have stepped up their game.
Joey
December 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
At some point entitlements will have to be dealt with, including Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. The first two are far and away the most acute in terms of fiscal imbalance, the latter not as much but still will have to be addressed longer term. To imagine that the US can achieve long-run fiscal stability without doing so – regardless of what is done with taxes and defense – is unfortunately not realistic. Other countries, especially in Europe, are facing the same types of tough decisions.
ad
December 1st, 2012
1:47 pm
Here’s a couple of decent apps for seeing what cuts you would make in spending or tax increases you’d opt for.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html
http://crfb.org/stabilizethedebt/
How much
December 1st, 2012
1:57 pm
Jay @ 11:15 AM: “More nonsense. Of course it is possible to overtax citizens.”
Jay @ 11:32 AM: “If you wish to pretend that only federal taxes matter, and only federal INCOME taxes matter, then you are not discussing the topic honestly. That’s just a fact.”
Jay, what is your definition of “overtax”? If the President’s proposal is adopted then a self-employed couple’s income over $250K will bed taxed at approximately 65-70%: Fed income 39.6, ACA tax 0.9, GA income 6.0, SS 12.4% of first ~$110K for each, Medicare 2.9% and real estate/consumption (8% sales tax, 4.75% insurance premium tax, gas tax, etc.).
Recon 0311 2533
December 1st, 2012
1:59 pm
Interesting that I’ve seldom seen any of the left wing posters ever comment on the governments mismanagement of taxpayer dollars or governments failures to spend within budgeted guidelines or in the case of this administration to fail at crafting an acceptable budget at all. All they talk about is the need for more taxation and typically the call from most on the left is more taxation on higher income earners.Now both parties are guilty of mismanaging and misappropriating taxpayer dollars but the left only points their fingers at Republicans and then quickly return to the demand that the top income tax brackets that pay most of the federal income tax revenue anyway pay even more. They call that “paying a fair share”
weetamoe
December 1st, 2012
2:06 pm
An available OMB chart shows the gap between federal receipts and outlays was in late 2005 narrowing to the point where the US appeared to be on the way to a surplus. The gap began to widen again in 2007. Since this information should be readily available to a proficient journalist and reported by a journalist with integrity, the AJC would be providing the kind of information newspapers used to be obligated to provide; that is if the AJC does employ a proficient journalist who does have integrity.
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
2:10 pm
No doubt about it. We should just tax our way into prosperity.
And in other news the crimson tide will be going for a 3rd national title in 4 years today against the dawgs. Good luck to the dawgs but this one is like David vs Goliath. Except Goliath wins this time.
F. Sinkwich
December 1st, 2012
2:11 pm
“…demand that the top income tax brackets that pay most of the federal income tax revenue anyway pay even more. They call that “paying a fair share””
It’s retribution. They think that every dollar a rich person has means that some loser has a dollar less. Tis a pitiful way to go through life but they do seem to enjoy it…
ad
December 1st, 2012
2:12 pm
How Much – you can’t add your tax rates on everything and think that comes up with your overall tax rate. You’re not taxed on what you spend on property tax (assuming you itemize). Being self employed, you’re not taxed on half of your ss and medicare contributions. You (or, at least most people) can’t pay sales tax on their entire income, unless they somehow spend their entire income (including what they’re paying in taxes). Plus, I’ve heard many self employed people laugh about the inflated expense deductions they take on their taxes, although I’m sure many don’t cheat. You could be paying a lot in taxes, but, as the chart at the beginning of this article shows, it ain’t 67%.
weetamoe
December 1st, 2012
2:12 pm
A wag in the House has commented that Geithner’s demands from Obama that the House pass a significant stimulus bill are based on the fact that a stimulus will be necessary to offset the drag on the economy that will be the result of raising taxes.
Jay
December 1st, 2012
2:13 pm
“An available OMB chart shows the gap between federal receipts and outlays was in late 2005 narrowing to the point where the US appeared to be on the way to a surplus. The gap began to widen again in 2007.
You mean right before the biggest recession in 80 years hit? Gee, imagine that. So you’re telling me that a massive recession cuts government revenue and forces an increase in government spending?
Fascinating.
Rightwing Troll
December 1st, 2012
2:15 pm
Boner and you morons had every opportunity to work this out over a year ago… but you were soooooo sure the ACA would be struck down and that you could get “Elmer Fudd” elected you overplayed your hand… now you piss and moan when you have to face the consequences of your ongoing stupidity.
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
The median net worth of American households has dropped to a 43-year low as the lower and middle classes appear poorer and less stable than they have been since 1969.
According to a recent study by New York University economics professor Edward N. Wolff, median net worth is at the decades-low figure of $57,000 (in 2010 dollars). And as the numbers in his study reflect, the situation only appears worse when all the statistics are taken as a whole.
So how’s that hope and changey thing working out for ya? Just remember. You voted for it!
Jay
December 1st, 2012
2:28 pm
How Much, I hope that you don’t make a living as an accountant.
You start off talking about income above $250,000, then try to sneak in payroll taxes that don’t even apply at that income level. That’s 12.4 percent taken off your total right at the start.
You also don’t happen to mention whether any of this couple’s income is derived from capital gains, dividends etc. which of course would be taxed at 15 percent not your 39.6 percent. Almost all tax returns for those in such income levels include capital gains and dividends.
As I recall, Mitt and Ann Romney paid a total of what, 13 to 14 percent, with income, cap gains, payroll and everything? And that’s of course a real-life example, not a hypothetical scare story.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:30 pm
RT
Right you are and so NOT Rightwing
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:30 pm
doomy,
Your failed party has the house and wants to keep it that way.
I tried deflecterbation and it felt good.
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
2:30 pm
“You mean right before the biggest recession in 80 years hit?”
I woulda thought Jay woulda been alive during the Carter era of 21% interest rates and STAGFLATION.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:31 pm
Common Sense isn’t
Very Common:
“Without any taxes being levied for the good of the country Scout would not have had a career as a gov’t employee leech.”
Sorry, but you called me (and your father and Jay’s father) a “leech”.
You have trouble with the definition of “leech”.
There are “leeches” (who don’t earn it) and there are “pensioners” (who do earn it).
If your father is still living, I suggest you call him and apologize.
Personally, I don’t want your apology.
Mama Says
December 1st, 2012
2:32 pm
Only a liberal would argue that government taking 20% to 42% of the money you make is not an abuse of taxing authority. That’s 2-4 dollars of every 10 dollars you earn. That means when you make 10 you get to keep 6-8, think about it folks.
Make 1000 they take 200 to 400. Jay says that’s not to much. That money would make my credit card payment very month, buy 2-6 bags of groceries, pay my electric bill or gas my car for a month.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:33 pm
A leech is a leech scout.
Ask nero.
Mick
December 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
sink
**They think that every dollar a rich person has means that some loser has a dollar less.**
Your words, your thoughts, mainly it’s just because they can afford it…
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
TD
Not to get in an argument or anything, but the middle class income shrunk over the years as jobs were offshored and 2 income families lost 1 source of income.
That started happening in the 90’s and continued rapidly in the 00’s both parties were to blame.
What is your suggestion? lower taxes that haven’t created jobs?
ad
December 1st, 2012
2:35 pm
Thulsa – that decline in net worth is due to the Wall Street banker’s recession’s effect on home values. For most people, their home was their biggest asset. Hope and Change has brought back the stock market and homes are beginning to increase too. I’ll take sensible rates of increase this time – not those generated by the profits motive from collateralized debt obligations backed up with credit default swaps.
F. Sinkwich
December 1st, 2012
2:36 pm
Hey Doomy, a link for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVNmgtMmpX4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Anyway, only two types of people voted for O’bozo:
1) Leeches
2) Leech enablers
ad
December 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
Mama says – If you’re making over $250K per year and can’t pay your credit card bills or buy groceries, I think you need to take a class in responsible spending.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
See scout.
filky called you a leech too.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:38 pm
“An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”.. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for dollars – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.”
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
Scout
If you read further you would see where I explained WHAT I meant by that statement.
And no, I lost BOTH my parents before I was 25 so it couldn’t run back home to mommy and daddy as some many far right wingers seem to have done.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
getalife:
Ever had leeches on you? I have ……… lots of them.
Creepy.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
“no one will try or want to succeed.”
BS, there are many sucessful people in Europe.
rw garbage.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:40 pm
scout,
Yes, my exes.
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
2:40 pm
There are “leeches” (who don’t earn it) and there are “pensioners” (who do earn it).
Scout,
Did you honestly think that libs can make the distinction between rightfully earning a benefit as opposed to someone just freeloading?
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:40 pm
Common Sense isn’t
very Common:
I can’t judge you by what you “meant” …….. only what you said.
Have a nice day.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:41 pm
Thulsa Doom:
No.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:42 pm
Face it scout,
You are the 47%.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:42 pm
getalife:
I can see why you have “exes”.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:42 pm
WOW
And here all along I thought making $50 per hour was better than living off the dole?
Gee I guess I need a new accountant.
0311/8541/5811/1811/1801
December 1st, 2012
2:43 pm
getalife:
Yes ……….. that part of “whatever %” wherein you are “kept” by better men than yourself.
Jay
December 1st, 2012
2:44 pm
Thulsa, most economically literate Americans understand that this most recent recession was considerably more grave than the Reagan recession.
Among other measures, GDP fell 5.1 percent in the Great Recession, compared to just 2.7 percent under Reagan. In other words, by that key measure, it was almost twice as bad as the 1981 recession. The Dow fell by more than 50 percent in ‘08; it fell by just 20 percent under Reagan. Again, a collapse more than twice as deep.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:45 pm
TD
Thulsa Doom
There are “leeches” (who don’t earn it) and there are “pensioners” (who do earn it).
Scout,
Did you honestly think that libs can make the distinction between rightfully earning a benefit as opposed to someone just freeloading?
—————————————————————————–
Not when Mitt lumped them in together.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:45 pm
scout,
Yet, you self destructed and voted for mitt that hates the 47%.
Sad.
Michael
December 1st, 2012
2:46 pm
I was talking to an expatriate in Rio de Janeiro a few years ago. I thought it must be a great city to live in. But, he had a problem with the “hidden taxes.” By that he meant the lack of security in your daily life.
By that standard the poor in America pay a lot of hidden taxes. They have a lower life expectancy, are less likely to have a good quality education, are more likely to be the victims of a crime, etc., etc. The few extra percentage points on a millionaire’s tax return are very small in comparison to some of those taxes paid by the poor.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
Michael
Instead of raising tax rates maybe we ought to institute a fear tax on the wealthy who seem to be sooooo afraid of Obama
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:50 pm
As Europe took the pain early and back in a recession, they say we have to take the pain later and cut like Europe.
Fine, lets cut after we return to full employment when Europe is out of their recession.
The rush to go back to a recession does not make sense.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:52 pm
get
whenever you say Rush in a sentence you make all the cons turn to FOX
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
2:52 pm
Jay,
The actual recession may have been deeper but the conditions for the resumption of economic growth were far more favorable under Obama than under Reagan.
First of all jobs losses had already bottomed out when Obama came into office and the recession then ended a scant 6 months later. In Reagan’s era the Fed triggered recession was 81-82 his first 2 years in office. Reagan had to deal with out of control interest rates and inflation.
Once the recession ended when O came into office he did not have to deal with out of control interest rates. The stage had already been set for economic growth to resume and interest rates were already low. From there its a matter of his policies being nothing more than an abysmal failure. And I think that is the part that really sticks in the collective craw of the liberal excuse makers. I guess you’ll have to just reconcile yourselves with blaming W for the next 4 years as Obama’s presidency continues to fail.
TaxPayer
December 1st, 2012
2:53 pm
I employed the services of an independent business man yesterday. He voiced his disgust with the taxes he already pays and the current discussions. His answer – cheat. He says going forward he intends to cheat on his taxes. I expect he will be joined by milliions who in the past tried to be at least comfortably honest on their tax returns.
I hear there’s a new do-it-yourself book out entitled “Tax Cheating for Romneys,” that contains step-by-step instructions on how to set up a Swiss bank account and how to set up a chritable trust fund that makes you the charity, etc. I suspect it will be a big hit amongst the sMitten.
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
2:55 pm
Michael and common sense,
Well the answer is obvious. We should just tax and regulate ourselves into prosperity.
TaxPayer
December 1st, 2012
2:56 pm
Poor Reagan had it so hard he even had to resort to raising taxes.
Mama Says
December 1st, 2012
2:56 pm
So now the government does the judging right AD ?
If I make over 350,000 a year I can just go get screwed because folks like you think you can take what you want of it ?
Perhaps if everyone had to take classes on the economics of income and related government spending/taxation habits you would understand that the government has no restraint on how it spends your money.
The fact that you believe the government should be able to take half of anything I own is bias reasoning given the fact you don’t think they should take the same amount from everyone, including from you.
Seems funny to me that you liberals preach the taking part but you are way behind in the giving part. You easily lack the stomach for watching your money leave your hand while you eagerly take from others.
Go to your local county government and look at how much they spend on ridiculous things, if you did you would get the picture. Problem is you are to lazy to check on the the very government you give taxing authority to, and you do t care to because you want them to take other people’s money.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 1st, 2012
2:57 pm
Jay
December 1st, 2012
11:13 am
Jay
It my data is actually sound.. You have fallen into the Keynsian trap..like the sheep that you are. Let me give you a little Keynesian quote:
“..the weakness of the inducement of to invest has been at all times the key to the economic problem..” true today as it was then.
I can also make an arguement that the middle class has enjoyed a boom period over the last 30 years..up to this recession. Reduced tax rates under JFK, Reagan and Clinton all increased taxes collected from the “rich”…for example per the the Reagan tax cuts from top rate of 70 to 50% and then down to 28 % in 1986, so the tax rate basically fell in half…tax reciepts doubled from 517 bil in 1981 to 1.03- billion in 1990. Since the late 70’s even as taxes fell by half, tax donations grew rapidly from the top 10% of total reciepts from 49% to 86%.
You would do well when discussing economics to understand that neither traditional GOP or DEM econom-gods THEORIES can address the issues of today. Your holy grail is to soak the rich. go to it..it won’t solve anything…history tells us that anytime tax reciepts of the rich increased, the spenders in DC simply used the windfall to leverage more spending.
You should stick to your other sheepish, toe licking traditional all or none DEM positions….you can’t have a remote clue Jay if you are so narrowminded as to take the DEM talking points and simply support amusing backup without regard for your own study of all theories and history from all approaches..
You are incapable of doing so…you blog is too predictable.. you take the talking points of DEMs…generally Fox News, soaking the rich, giving more money away and borrow and spend, now sophomoric attempts as economics, and try to bash others with biased data…it’s all biased and neither side has a corner on that particular market..
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:57 pm
doomy,
No doomy.
We blame the gop for obstruction.
Try to keep up.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 1st, 2012
2:59 pm
TD
Have you expanded your workforce with your tax cuts over the last TEN years?
If so great. You are one of the good guys.
If not WHY not?
Lack of demand?
Regulation is not all about imposing rules for no reasons on business. It’s about accountability.
You want the poor to be accountable why not business?
getalife
December 1st, 2012
2:59 pm
The cons use reagan because the rest of the gop Presidents were a disaster.
It is all they have left and he was a bad President.
Mick
December 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
** the conditions for the resumption of economic growth were far more favorable under Obama than under Reagan**
Not intended to be a factual statement.
We are still a good two or three years away from the culmination of the housing bust. It’s a real problem, most of the houses are still underwater, it will be a slow process.
0311
That test story was ludicrous, you and your socialism bogeyman, it’s really quite comical…
TaxPayer
December 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
If I make over 350,000 a year I can just go get screwed because folks like you think you can take what you want of it ?
If you make 350k in a year, you be sure to come back and tell us how your life just sucks.
Stevie Ray..Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right..here I am...
December 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
Why do I never get a lunatic liberal fringy to discuss JFK’s supply side philosophy and success as well as his pitch about what can you do for your country…those on the left are most definitely interested in sticking with economic dogma..one size fits all, and is only asking what our government, who spends 30% more that it takes in…can do for you..
You and the right when sticking to such sheepish dogma all or nothing, are like little children argueing over who is gonna get the candy…the proposed tax cuts are rubbish…we definitely should go over the cliff…
getalife
December 1st, 2012
3:02 pm
How many times did reagan raise taxed and the debt limit?
How many times did President Obama raise taxes and the debt limit?
Nero
December 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
Whine, whine, whine. The Cliff is coming and all taxes are going up. Get used to it. The voters spoke and chose divided government. There will be no deal because both sides are arrogant asses. The across the board spending cuts will be healthy for this country. Time to spend less than we take in. The leeches will just have to tighten their belts. We need a national sales tax too. No more stimulus spending that only serves as political pandering. The sky will not fall. This country will be just fine, and we’ll be on our way to actually paying down our debt. That’s a good thing.
Thulsa Doom
December 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
“Poor Reagan had it so hard he even had to resort to raising taxes.”
Yep. He got tricked into it twice by the Dems with the promise of reduced spending by the D Congress. It was his biggest regret- believing the Dems that is. They got their tax raises but they lied and never delivered on the spending cuts. Typical of the libs.
getalife
December 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
nero,
scout said you owe him an apology.
Jay
December 1st, 2012
3:04 pm
I appreciate you acknowledging your previous error, Thulsa, but you’re equally wrong in your latest post.
The Reagan recession was far easier to deal with because, as you say, the Fed caused it and did so on purpose. With inflation rampant, the Fed shut down the money supply, interest rates soared, inflation was wrung out of the system and the Fed was then free to restart lending and bring us out of the recession. It was a painful process, but in truth Reagan played little role in it.
There is no comparison to a recession touched off by a deep and global financial crisis. Government has very few effective tools in that situation. To the degree that it does, Obama has actually done pretty well, because the U.S. economy has recovered more quickly than that of other Western industrialized country.